1
10
4
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Lucy Wheeler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Susan Cupaiuolo
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=CupaiuoloSusan_WheelerLucy_2023-02-23_access.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Cupaiuolo, Susan. Interview February 23, 2023 SC027-24 0:41:03 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral histories collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. Blueberries Cherimoya Orchards -- California -- Vista Tree crops Vista (Calif.) Susan Cupaiuolo Lucy Wheeler mp4 CupaiuoloSusan_WheelerLucy_2023-02-23_access.mp4 1:|13(1)|23(5)|31(7)|40(8)|47(3)|54(11)|61(1)|69(8)|77(9)|85(8)|95(3)|104(3)|111(7)|120(11)|130(14)|140(12)|148(9)|158(12)|166(1)|174(11)|184(6)|192(9)|204(13)|213(2)|222(12)|232(2)|240(9)|247(11)|255(12)|263(6)|271(8)|281(3)|289(5)|301(2)|313(2)|328(3)|336(10)|367(2)|387(7)|401(10)|415(6) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/7519142da692856f004bf07f963d4a93.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction about North County para-agriculture / Giovanni Nino Cupaiuolo’s story The interview begins with an introduction to North County’s para-agriculture, which has been largely overlooked despite San Diego making up a large portion of the county’s agriculture. Susan Cupaiuolo discusses the life of her husband Giovanni Nino Cupaiuolo, whom was called “Nino.” She explains that Nino grew up in Milan, Italy during World War II. Nino did not have a farming background. Instead, Nino worked in the field of international marketing and worked in the United States and Europe for forty years. She also explains that Nino loved growing a garden in the Orange County home that she shared with his first wife. Nino passed away in 2020 at the age of eighty-six years old. agriculture ; farming ; farms ; Independent farming ; Milan (Italy) ; Orange County (Calif.) ; para-agriculture 235 Marriage to Cupaiuolo/ Purchasing the farm Susan Cupaiuolo recounts the early days of her marriage to Nino Cupaiuolo, where they lived in Michigan before moving to Orange County, CA. She also recalls when Nino first introduced her to the avocado fields in Vista, CA that they would eventually turn into their cherimoya farm, The Primavera Orchard. agriculture ; Cherimoya ; farming ; farms ; Independent farming ; Michigan ; Orange County (Calif.) ; para-agriculture ; The Primavera Orchard ; Vista (Calif.) 456 Managing a farm/ Background on cherimoyas Susan Cupaiuolo discusses how she and Nino developed and managed a cherimoya farm. She explains that managing a farm is a long-term investment and that farmers may sometimes invest a lot of money, time, research, and other resources into their farm in order to see results. Cupaiuolo also discusses cherimoyas, their origins, and tips on growing and pollinating cherimoyas in the Southern Californian climate. Cupaiuolo had also brought a few cherimoyas to the interview, which she displays to the camera. Agriculture ; Cherimoya ; Ecuador ; Farming ; Farming techniques ; Farms ; Independent farming ; Para-agriculture ; Peru ; Subtropical fruit ; Vista (Calif.) 850 Local resources Susan Cupaiuolo discusses local resources that she has found beneficial in her experience in farming. She recommends programs such as the University of California Cooperative Extension for soil analysis labs, as well as organizations such as the California Rare Fruit Growers, the California Cherimoya Association, and the Master Gardner Association for their workshops and other resources. She highlights the University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources Department and the South Coast Research and Extension Center for their agricultural research. Cupaiuolo also stresses the importance of the internet for making research on farming easier and more accessible to the general public. Agriculture ; California Rare Fruit Growers ; Cherimoya ; Farming ; Farming techniques ; Farms ; Independent farming ; Irvine (Calif.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Para-agriculture ; Research ; San Diego (Calif.) ; Soil analysis ; South Coast Research and Extension Center ; The California Cherimoya Association ; The County of San Diego Cooperative Extension ; The Farm and House Advisor ; The Master Gardener Association ; The United States Department of Agriculture ; The University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources Department ; University of California Cooperative Extension 1047 Selling produce and relationships with customers Susan Cupaiuolo discusses the business-side of managing a farm. Independently-owned grocery stores were an important avenue to individual farmers like the Cupaiuolos. She also discusses other avenues for where individual farmers can earn revenue and connect to the community, and recounts their experiences at farmers markets, free tasting events, and delivering to customers directly. She explains that their experience working with customers in these capacities helped build relationships and loyalty. Farm tours also facilitated socialization within their community. Agriculture ; Business ; Cherimoya ; Connecting with community ; Customers ; Farming ; Farms ; Independent farming ; Para-agriculture ; Socialization in farming ; Vista (Calif.) 1494 Research and record-keeping in farming Susan Cupaiuolo discusses record-keeping strategies for farming. Specifically, record-keeping was beneficial to the Cupaiuolos for documenting their blueberry harvests. She explains that Nino collaborated with the Cooperative Extension’s Blueberry Test Plot Program and the Farm Bureau and documented the blossoms, production, weight, soil, temperature, and varieties of blueberries. Cupaiuolo describes her role in blueberry record-keeping as financial and also explains the profit they made from selling the fruit. Agriculture ; Blueberries ; Farming ; Farming techniques ; Farms ; Independent farming ; Para-agriculture ; Peru ; Record-keeping ; Research ; The Cooperative Extension’s Blueberry Test Plot Program ; The Farm Bureau ; Vista (Calif.) 1835 Selling the farm/ Innovation in farming Susan Cupaiuolo briefly discusses the process of selling the farm to a new family after Nino’s death. She also discusses the importance of innovation in farming and explains that their farm was ahead of technological innovations in terms of the installation of an advanced irrigation system, solar panels, and a cell tower in the early 2000s. She recalls Nino’s artistic mind and speculates that his creativity allowed him to create these advanced designs for their farm. Agriculture ; Farming ; Farming irrigation ; Farms ; Independent farming ; Innovation in farming ; Irrigation ; Para-agriculture ; Technological innovations ; The Primavera Orchard ; Vista (Calif.) 2160 Advice to future farmers/ Agriculture economy Susan Cupaiuolo briefly offers advice to individuals who may be interested in starting their own farm. She suggests when buying a farm, it is imperative to have an understanding of the history of farming, the labor needed to sustain a farm, and the current economy and real-estate market. She further discusses the economy of individual farming, especially the competition farmers face against one another. Advice ; Agriculture ; Agriculture economy ; Competition in farming ; Economy ; Farming ; Farming advice ; Farms ; Independent farming ; Para-agriculture ; Real estate market Moving image The Primavera Orchard was owned and operated by Giovanni and Susan Cupaiuolo from 1991 until Nino’s death in 2020 in Vista, California. It was a six acre peri-urban farm specializing in the growth, preparation, promotion and detailed hand-pollinated fruit from a variety of cherimoya trees. Cherimoya trees are a tropical fruit tree which will only grow in Southern California and are very expensive due to the complicated and dedicated care of the trees and cultivations. The Cupaiuolos later introduced blueberries to the area to provide this northern fruit into the local markets during the northern dormant season. Other fruits and vegetables were grown for personal use. Lucy Wheeler: Good afternoon. My name is Lucy Wheeler and it' ; s February the 23rd, 2023. We' ; re here to interview Susan-- Susan Cupaiuolo: Cupaiuolo. Wheeler: Kupaiyalo. Thank you. (Cupaiuolo chuckles) Uh, this is in behalf of the North County Oral History Initiative being put on by Cal State and San Marcos and the Museum of History here in San Marcos. The history of our North County--and just as a preliminary to your story, Susan--the county of San Diego is a very unique situation in that it' ; s the ninth largest city in the United States, but it' ; s in the community of the county. The fourth largest industry is agriculture, and most of that, or 70% of that, is soon to be in the North County. Part of that agricultural industry makes it a--well, it' ; s the largest area in the United States with the most farms. Your story shows one of the areas of that agriculture which is kind of overlooked, and that is, in 2017 the county of San Diego estimated and actually counted that there were 5,000 small para-farmers, which is ten acres or less, and how they operate. And your story can bring us a wealth of information to that. So, with that beginning, tell us a little bit about yourself, your husband, where you were born, and what your interest in agriculture was. Cupaiuolo: (nods) I' ; d be glad to give some background on this. My husband was Giovanni Nino Cupaiuolo. He died in October 2020 at the height of the pandemic. Uh, he was 86 years old. He had been in declining health physically and cognitively, and I just wish that he were here to tell this adventure, but I' ; ll do my best to--to share it. Um, I' ; m going to call him " ; Nino." ; He grew up in Milan, Italy during World War II. He had one brother. His father was from Naples and his mother from Sicily. Farming was not in his background, and, um, I' ; m setting that up as making sure we don' ; t have these assumptions about Italians who grew up on farms and have these big families, okay? Because that' ; s--that' ; s not the--the way it was for him. He had a master' ; s degree in international marketing, and he spoke four languages. He sold industrial instrumentation in Europe and in the United States for over forty years. His first wife was an American. She worked at the U.S. Consulate in Milan. She was from Riverside, and they eventually settled with their three children in Orange County. For the first time, they had a yard! You know. Growing up in Milan, apartment, maybe you have a balcony with some pots. But the garden that he had, and they had chickens and the kids loved it. He learned that he loved growing things. Nino and I met and married in Michigan, where I am from. I was teaching and he was working there selling to the auto industry. He was transferred again in 1988 and we moved to Orange County. So, how did a schoolteacher from western Michigan and an Italian end up with a six-acre farm in north San Diego County? Well, I have to say at this point that it was driven by Nino, who was looking for a place to enjoy his retirement. I was happy teaching in Huntington Beach, but his territory stretched from San Diego to L.A. and beyond and he was on the road a lot. On Friday, one Friday, in 1991, he was returning from San Diego and he stopped off at a--a nursery in North Vista and, um, when he arrived home he said, " ; I' ; ve found where we' ; re going to retire." ; So, the next day we started looking, and we found two acres on a subdivided avocado grove off of Gopher Canyon Road. And the journey began! At first, we commuted to the property on the weekends, and it--it was--it was perfect. It was hectic, but it was perfect. The Fuerte avocados there were in decline, and they were alive but failing, because after the introduction of the Hass variety, the--the cultivar, um, Fuerte fell out of favor. So, the 45-acre grove was subdivided into two-to-four-acre plots and put up for sale. So, what do you do with aging avocado trees? You stop watering them because avocados need 40 inches of rain a year. So, it didn' ; t take long. When the adjacent four acres became available, we were able to buy them as well and that included a grove of already-producing persimmons--Hachiyas and Fuyus. So, that gave us a place to start. We moved to the farm in 1994, fixed up a small house on the property, and over the next year we removed all of the metal irrigation pipes (chuckles) and those dead avocado trees. By the way, avocado wood makes great firewood. We were selling it and giving it away for years! Okay, enough background. What does it take to have a small farm? Well, besides resources like land and equipment and irrigation, you need physical energy and strength (chuckles) and a lot of knowledge based on research. And that would include--before you even get started--the microclimate, the soil, the water sources. And then you have to choose, based on that information, what to grow! Well, Nino wanted fruit trees. Okay. As I was saying, he was the driver of all of this (chuckles), so I was just along for the ride. But, he, in particular, wanted cherimoyas, and that was because he had the year before, out of curiosity, bought a cherimoya fruit at a market and he loved it. He saved the seeds, and he planted them in pots. In fact, there was a cherimoya tree on the property, right by the front door! After much research--this was in 1993--early days of the internet, okay? But, we learned that cherimoyas would do really well in our area. Not from seed, however. (indicates " ; no" ; with her left pointer finger, and clears her throat.) It--it took a big commitment, that' ; s for sure, because choosing to grow trees requires a longer-term outlook. Depending on how much time and money you have, you have to, um, invest, because the trees will take three to five years, or more, to produce, while row crops, like flowers or microgreens, for example, they can be seasonal. It was a big decision. It was a certain amount of trial and error--grafting, pollinating, planting. But, as it' ; s important to small farms in choosing a unique or niche product, not supplied (again indicated " ; no" ; with her finger) by larger farmers, it worked out! Now, at the time, that really wasn' ; t our focus, but it proved to be a huge advantage. A little bit about cherimoyas. They' ; re a subtropical fruit, native to the mountain valleys of Peru and Ecuador. It can be large, often heart-shaped. (Reaches for a fruit and holds it up for the camera while the camera pans in.) I can show you one. (Lays it back down, and begins to rub her hands together). They have overlapping scales--that' ; s what people call them, anyway. But, inside, it is white, and it has a custardy texture and it tastes like pineapple, banana, papaya, and in some varieties, even a pear! (Holds up a book with header reading " ; Gallery of Subtropical Plants" ; and contains a photo of the fruit and a cherimoya tree as well as textual information. Camera pans in on the page with the fruit image.) Southern California provides the--the best conditions in the United States for growing cherimoyas. The largest plantings are near Santa Barbara where most of that fruit is exported to Asia. The season is late winter to spring, so depending on the variety, that' ; s from November, December to March and April. The tricky thing (rubs her hands together) about growing cherimoyas is the pollination. Each blossom is both male and female, but bees are too big to enter this fleshy flower. To get full-sized fruit, hand pollination with a paintbrush is the key. It' ; s labor intensive in June, July, and August. It' ; s not difficult, but it is time consuming. Now, (looks to her left, towards the fruit) part of farming has to be knowing the microclimate and (clears her throat) in general, in San Diego, people know the difference between the--the cool coastal and the warmer inland valleys. But (rubs hands) even with careful research on the--on the property, it' ; s--it can throw you some--some confusing conditions, because, uh, there are different temperatures. You can have diff--places with sun, and soil, and wind. On our property, which dropped off to a--a canyon, the temperature dropped dramatically, including frost, and the prevailing westerly winds were an issue. We were able to grow for ourselves in that canyon, apples, cherries, pears, fruits that needed a lot of chill time. But we weren' ; t selling those. (clears her throat, plane can be heard in the background) We also ended up, though, having to plant a wind break to protect the cherimoyas (chuckles) that we had planted. Who knew! But, we chose wisely because we chose Satsuma tangerines, which proved to be--be-- very popular, so it all worked out. (clears her throat again) Some research was more scientific because soil and water can be tested for pH and salinity and minerals, and there are a lot of excellent resources out--out there that--that I need to, uh, recommend, because um,--I' ; m going to read this just to make sure I get it correct--um, the University of California Cooperative Extension has the names of labs. Okay, you have to pay for them. But, especially soil analysis is--is important, because you need to understand the plants ability to absorb nutrients. You can even take them leaves from your plants, and they will analyze whether they are taking up nutrients as needed. I also want to recommend specific groups like--we had the California Rare Fruit Growers. There' ; s a--a branch in North County and also one at Balboa Park. There' ; s the California Cherimoya Association and other fruits have their Associations as well. And, of course, the United States Department of Agriculture. And I can' ; t forget the Master Gardener Association, because they have workshops and blogs and so much information. And in the past 20 to 30 years, it' ; s been easy to find information, easier, because of the internet. And whether you' ; re planting, or pruning, or harvesting, a YouTube video can teach you (starts to chuckle) just about anything you want! And they' ; re fun! So, research is easier. But I still have to say that contact with people is key. The University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources Department--that' ; s called the U.C.A.N.R.--is including--includes the County of San Diego Cooperative Extension and the Farm and Home Advisor--that' ; s by county. And--and another part of the U.C.A.N.R. is the South Coast Research and Extension Center in Irvine, and (clears throat) it' ; s a living laboratory for U.C. scientists where they are conducting agricultural research. It' ; s a 200-acre facility, where they have outdoor events and demonstrations and classrooms. They have a glasshouse there. And they also have a huge cherimoya collection of trees that is just beautiful. And, of course, that was our connection to that place, besides the great people who are there. So, relationships and talking about them, kind of brings me to the selling part of all of this, because when we had enough fruit to sell, the Vista Farmer' ; s Market was a consideration. But Nino decided to try small, family-owned, independent grocers first. Not chains (indicates " ; no" ; with her left finger). They won' ; t even talk to you. Even Sprouts won' ; t buy from individual farmers. So, let' ; s find places where they will buy locally. Now, farmer' ; s markets do have advantages--meeting other farmers, learning about crops, meeting the public. But, they require labor time away from the farm and picking for unknown demand in advance. And that, with fruit on trees, is problematic. So as an experienced (chuckles) salesman, Nino knew to find out what the customer wanted, and he harvested by their needs! He would check their stock, or they would call. Sometimes he would deliver two to three times a week, especially during times like the Lunar New Year, things like that. That special attention is what builds relationships and loyalty. He also learned to sell by (chuckles) uniform size. They didn' ; t want all different sizes of fruit. They wanted uniform. But then he had to be creative, too. And he was always making sure that he was interacting with the produce people at the store, whether they' ; re the guys putting out the fruit or the managers, because that kind of connection does it all. So, (sighs) pre-pandemic, Nino was even doing free tastings at Frazier Farms which was one of his main sources, uh, sales--of sales. He--he would cut up (gestures cutting with a knife) cherimoyas and take them there and they weren' ; t well known but once people tried them, they were going to buy. Now, at one point, customers would see Nino delivering and they would stop him in the parking lot, asking to buy fruit themselves. He declined right away, partly because of the amount that they wanted. He realized that they were going to be reselling and competing with his customer right there in the store. So, it would be also disruptive to have these people coming to the property and wanting to buy, so, no. But it did get Nino thinking about sharing the experience of the farm. MeetUp groups were starting at that time. They were the thing, like signing up online for different activities. So, we started having U-Picks. We set up two timeslots on Saturday mornings, where people could sign up online, and they would come and Nino would give a presentation on the farm and the different fruits, and I provided samples of fruit and preserves and--and cherimoya ice cream and recipes. Oh, they loved that! So, it was a success. Families came with their kids, mostly from San Diego proper, you know. They were city people. But they were enjoying an outing in the country, and they enjoyed the property. They loved picking the fruit. So, these are people who wanted their kids to know where fruit comes from! Wow! (laughs) And the kids especially liked picking the tangerines. We made a lot of friends over the ten years that we did that, and we got to watch those kids grow up. They--they also liked feeding my chickens. Now, some customers--I put that in quotes (gestures making quotation marks with her hands) ' ; cuz yes they were customers but they became friends and they would volunteer to come and help during the summer with the hand pollination and the--of the cherimoyas and so we--we had some--some really good connections that way. We even found a couple of paid workers from that group. Now, over the years, we had a lot of visitors to the farm. Um, usually by word of mouth or connections to the Farm Bureau, and that would include restaurant owners, especially Asian and South American, produce managers from independent grocers. I think of Barons Market, especially, because we had one produce manager from one store come and pretty soon all of the stores were buying from us. We even had wholesale produce managers (rubs hands together), um, specialty produce in the San Diego. They--they sell to the public, but they would come and--and visit and see the farm. And we also had students come to visit. They were from Cal Poly Pomona and there' ; s a College of Agriculture Plant Sciences there, and they were taking a class. I--I remember Dr. Greg Partida, who retired in 2010, but he had a class on subtropical fruit production and he would bring his students on field trips to the farm. So, that socialization is so important because farming, even on a small farm, can be really isolating. There' ; s so much to do, day-to-day. People, since the pandemic, working from home, have found out how strange that is, really, that instead of going to the office every day, they' ; re--they' ; re at home. And--and that' ; s kind of like what it' ; s--what it is to--to be a small farmer, too. I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, record keeping, because it' ; s so impart--important in farming and with the advent of the internet and--and computers, it' ; s changed a lot. But, it' ; s still a--a beneficial skill set, whether you' ; re talking about taxes, or income, or expenses, or irrigation, equipment, payroll, any of that. But, um, another use for--for keeping track of--of information is monitoring the production of the--the crops, whether it' ; s by varieties, where they' ; re growing on the property, the quality from year to year. And an example of this is really in--in Nino' ; s participation in the--the Cooperative Extension' ; s Blueberry Test Plot Program, which was twenty years ago. Now, traditionally blueberries were a cold weather plant that would go dormant every year. In California, the plants bloom year-round, and they wear themselves out. So, Nino, once again, wanted to plant things that no one else plants and there was a lot of research going on as to how to extend the blueberry' ; s range. Through the Farm and Home Advisor Ramiro Lobo, Nino was given four plants each of nine different varieties of southern blueberries. The soil pH that we had was way too alkaline and it had to be augmented. Temperature had to be monitored. Pests considered. The Farm Bureau was very supportive throughout all of this. They even ended up building us a netted structure to keep the birds off. But, Nino was instrumental in monitoring and recording the blossoms, the fruit, the production for each plant. They called him Mr. Spreadsheet (both she and Wheeler chuckle). Well, Excel to the rescue, you know? Because, in--and--I--I have a--a photo of him here, if you' ; d like to see, where he is, um, (shows a photo of Nino, camera pans in) taking the blossoms off of the blueberry plants. Now, why would he be doing that? You know? For two years, he did that, so that the young plants could use their energy to grow. And then he would take the berries from each variety and weigh them and--and count them, and that' ; s how they decided which varieties would be the most productive in southern California. Now, there were other farmers doing that too, but in 2002, California produced two million pounds of blueberries. Okay. Twenty years later, 53.4 million pounds of blueberries, sixth in the United States. This boom is due to technological growing skills and adventurous producers, and he was part of all of that. My part with the blueberries was, (clears her throat) when I retired from teaching, then I was in charge of the blueberries. Okay. But think of it this way. Four dollars for six ounces (gestures as if telling a secret)--I was selling them at school. So, that translates to twelve dollars a pound. Now, what ev--other fruit is going to sell for twelve dollars a pound! In the past ten years, in the United States, the output of blueberries has tripled. And that' ; s in the U.S. alone. And the main states are Washington, Georgia, and my home state, Michigan. So, why is that increased so much. Because of the research talking about antioxidants. So, in ten years, they have become really huge crop. Okay, today, what country do you think grows the most blueberries? I' ; ll tell you. Peru! Is that somethin' ; or what? Which, for me, is kind of a full circle because that' ; s where cherimoyas are from. Okay. So, I have just a little bit more, because I sold the farm after Nino' ; s death. I had three people interested. One couple wanted it as an investment, (said in nasal utterance) ehh. Another couple ended up buying a larger property in Valley Center. But, the--the family that I--I sold to love it there, and they' ; re trying to keep it going. They have no clue how much work it takes, especially with their three kids and two dogs, but hey. That' ; s--that' ; s--that' ; s their issue. They' ; re keeping it going, and I--I--I wish them all the best. Now, (clears her throat) when it--when it comes to innovation in farming, I guess that--that--that besides his interaction with people, innovation was something that--that Nino was very attracted to, because he was always trying new irrigation. We had installed a--a well, which saved on water. But electricity was expensive. So, we invested in solar panels. And in the year 2000, we were one of the fifty original installations of net metering in the--in the county. So, it was always somethin' ; , you know. We had a cell tower on the property. Very good income. Verizon had been pursuing us for several years for that. And finally we were able to get them to choose a location and (chuckles) give us a fake tree design that was acceptable that we couldn' ; t see from the house. So, always moving forward with something, that is the exciting part of changes and I mentioned these as evidence because technological innovation in all our lives, including farming, is key. What' ; s next? (puts up her hands, palms facing camera) I don' ; t know. Robots? (laughs) I don' ; t know! But--but Nino was able to embrace new ideas and change. And new farmers are going to have to do the same. Wheeler: Oh. Thank you so much. It' ; s so exciting because we are all changing no matter what we--what we do. The--I was really curious about--say more about how innovative--what--what made him feel that way, think that way. Curiosity coming from another country and embracing so many differences, but being innovative with that help, maybe in spite of it sometimes. Cupaiuolo: Well, he had many different abilities. I had mentioned that he spoke four languages. His father was an artist, and Nino was very artistic. So, he had a very creative part of his personality, besides being just so outgoing. And, um, he loved to--to try new things. Wheeler: And that is wonderful! The other thing that I think depicts all of this was the number of articles written about him and that he helped promote, and to let the world know how he was, um, being innovative― Cupaiuolo: Uh-huh. Wheeler: ―in a very creative way. And that personality came across, and people accepted that. Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm. Wheeler: And there was so much camaraderie in it. Did you ever do tours of your farm? Cupaiuolo: Uh, yes, there were farm tours that were set up. And people, through the Farm Bureau, would come from different parts of the country, even. They would come on a bus! (shrugs) Because small farms, for a long time really, have been a focus of--of many different states. We even had the president of the University of California come on one of the--the tours, and wrote us a--a very nice thank you letter afterward, because they were interested in how much they should be focusing on the part of the University of California that was devoted to agriculture and farming. Wheeler: That' ; s great. Would--sometimes when we' ; re driving in the freeway and it' ; s pretty much a parking lot for a couple of hours of the day, and we get this vision of wouldn' ; t it be nice to be on a little farm or little acreage somewhere, do you have any advice to people who have that dream. Cupaiuolo: (purses her lips and blows out air, then clears her throat) Well, I think that it takes more than people think in terms of resources and, um, research (chuckles), and it--it' ; s not something to jump into lightly. It is possible to buy a farm that' ; s already operating, and that--that' ; s what the young family did from--from me, last year. So-- Wheeler: And the cost of real estate has made that less available to a lot of people, too. Cupaiuolo: Well, that is--that--that' ; s (nodding) Wheeler: So much going on in this farming industry. That' ; s why it' ; s very important to have the history of how it has been, in order to build on to the future. Do you happen to have a photo of Nino? Cupaiuolo: I do! (reaches to her right, and pulls out a photo). What is--what' ; s happening to that. There it is! Wheeler: Oh, and he has some of the cherimoyas. Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm. Wheeler: That one is large! How large do they get? Cupaiuolo: Well, that was a three pounder. Wheeler: Mmm--wow. Cupaiuolo: Yeah, that--that would be fifteen dollars right there. Wheeler: Yes. Cupaiuolo: And you know what? People would buy them! Wheeler: It' ; s amazing the costs of them. But now that I understand more about the--the detail and the--the labor intensiveness of it, um-- Cupaiuolo: Course, if that--that wouldn' ; t all be fruit-less, if people didn' ; t love the fruit. So-- Wheeler: Right. Exactly. Um-- Cupaiuolo: But, hey, look at what we pay for blueberries per month. Wheeler: Do you know of any other orchards that are doing that right now? Or is it a popular-- Cupaiuolo: For the cherimoya? Wheeler: Yes. Cupaiuolo: Not that I know of. I mean, there are people on the side. Competition. There was a guy in Oceanside who had purchased a cherimoya orchard and he had small, misshapen fruit. And he offered to sell it to Frazier Farms for three dollars a pound rather than the five dollars a pound that we were selling fruit. So the produce manager from Frader--Frazier Farms came to Nino and said, " ; I have this guy that' ; s going to sell me fruit at three dollars a pound, so that' ; s all I' ; m going to pay you." ; And Nino said, " ; eh-eh." ; (gestures with her finger as if saying no). So, he was then out there exploring new avenues. But, it didn' ; t take long before that fruit just sat in the store and wouldn' ; t sell. No matter what the price was. Because people had expectations of what they had seen before. Wheeler: Yes, wow. Very interesting. Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm. Wheeler: Thank you so much for sharing this part of para-agriculture, which is a pretty new phrase to a--phase for a lot of us. Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm. It was new to me. Wheeler: And the up--the fact that we are the largest county in the United States with that kind of urban and city mixture makes it even more diversified and more interesting to live here. It' ; s not wonder to me that the price of land has gone up as much as it has. It' ; s very desirable. The--We are, however, in my humble opinion, at a cusp of which direction are we going in the future. And how will agriculture look in twenty years from now. But, you' ; ve given us a wonderful foundation for how it came this far, what kind of innovation it took, what kind of knowledge. It' ; s not for the weak--physically, mentally, or otherwise. And I' ; m so appreciative of what you' ; ve done. Thank you so much. Cupaiuolo: Oh, it' ; s been my pleasure. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=CupaiuoloSusan_WheelerLucy_2023-02-23_access.xml CupaiuoloSusan_WheelerLucy_2023-02-23_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cupaiuolo, Susan. Interview February 23, 2023
Description
An account of the resource
The Primavera Orchard was owned and operated by Giovanni and Susan Cupaiuolo from 1991 until Nino’s death in 2020 in Vista, California. It was a six acre peri-urban farm specializing in the growth, preparation, promotion and detailed hand-pollinated fruit from a variety of cherimoya trees. Cherimoya trees are a tropical fruit tree which will only grow in Southern California and are very expensive due to the complicated and dedicated care of the trees and cultivations. The Cupaiuolos later introduced blueberries to the area to provide this northern fruit into the local markets during the northern dormant season. Other fruits and vegetables were grown for personal use.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-24
Subject
The topic of the resource
Blueberries
Cherimoya
Orchards -- California -- Vista
Tree crops
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-23
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Susan Cupaiuolo
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lucy Wheeler
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Vista (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Susan Cupaiuolo
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving image
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/5af2f72446a3d7bf9cdf8db3952005c8.pdf
defee5e2470badc29a52a43f13afacbe
PDF Text
Text
SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
Lucy Wheeler: Good afternoon. My name is Lucy Wheeler and it’s February the 23rd, 2023.
We’re here to interview Susan—
Susan Cupaiuolo: Cupaiuolo.
Wheeler: Kupaiyalo. Thank you. (Cupaiuolo chuckles) Uh, this is in behalf of the North County
Oral History Initiative being put on by Cal State and San Marcos and the Museum of History
here in San Marcos. The history of our North County—and just as a preliminary to your story,
Susan—the county of San Diego is a very unique situation in that it’s the ninth largest city in the
United States, but it’s in the community of the county. The fourth largest industry is agriculture,
and most of that, or 70% of that, is soon to be in the North County. Part of that agricultural
industry makes it a–well, it’s the largest area in the United States with the most farms. Your
story shows one of the areas of that agriculture which is kind of overlooked, and that is, in 2017
the county of San Diego estimated and actually counted that there were 5,000 small parafarmers, which is ten acres or less, and how they operate. And your story can bring us a wealth of
information to that. So, with that beginning, tell us a little bit about yourself, your husband,
where you were born, and what your interest in agriculture was.
Cupaiuolo: (nods) I’d be glad to give some background on this. My husband was Giovanni Nino
Cupaiuolo. He died in October 2020 at the height of the pandemic. Uh, he was 86 years old. He
had been in declining health physically and cognitively, and I just wish that he were here to tell
this adventure, but I’ll do my best to–to share it. Um, I’m going to call him “Nino.” He grew up
in Milan, Italy during World War II. He had one brother. His father was from Naples and his
mother from Sicily. Farming was not in his background, and, um, I’m setting that up as making
sure we don’t have these assumptions about Italians who grew up on farms and have these big
families, okay? Because that’s–that’s not the–the way it was for him. He had a master’s degree in
international marketing, and he spoke four languages. He sold industrial instrumentation in
Europe and in the United States for over forty years. His first wife was an American. She worked
at the U.S. Consulate in Milan. She was from Riverside, and they eventually settled with their
three children in Orange County. For the first time, they had a yard! You know. Growing up in
Milan, apartment, maybe you have a balcony with some pots. But the garden that he had, and
they had chickens and the kids loved it. He learned that he loved growing things.
Nino and I met and married in Michigan, where I am from. I was teaching and he was working
there selling to the auto industry. He was transferred again in 1988 and we moved to Orange
County. So, how did a schoolteacher from western Michigan and an Italian end up with a sixacre farm in north San Diego County? Well, I have to say at this point that it was driven by Nino,
who was looking for a place to enjoy his retirement. I was happy teaching in Huntington Beach,
but his territory stretched from San Diego to L.A. and beyond and he was on the road a lot. On
Friday, one Friday, in 1991, he was returning from San Diego and he stopped off at a–a nursery
in North Vista and, um, when he arrived home he said, “I’ve found where we’re going to retire.”
So, the next day we started looking, and we found two acres on a subdivided avocado grove off
of Gopher Canyon Road. And the journey began!
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
1
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
At first, we commuted to the property on the weekends, and it–it was–it was perfect. It was
hectic, but it was perfect. The Fuerte avocados there were in decline, and they were alive but
failing, because after the introduction of the Hass variety, the–the cultivar, um, Fuerte fell out of
favor. So, the 45-acre grove was subdivided into two-to-four-acre plots and put up for sale. So,
what do you do with aging avocado trees? You stop watering them because avocados need 40
inches of rain a year. So, it didn’t take long. When the adjacent four acres became available, we
were able to buy them as well and that included a grove of already-producing persimmons—
Hachiyas and Fuyus. So, that gave us a place to start. We moved to the farm in 1994, fixed up a
small house on the property, and over the next year we removed all of the metal irrigation pipes
(chuckles) and those dead avocado trees. By the way, avocado wood makes great firewood. We
were selling it and giving it away for years!
Okay, enough background. What does it take to have a small farm? Well, besides resources like
land and equipment and irrigation, you need physical energy and strength (chuckles) and a lot of
knowledge based on research. And that would include—before you even get started—the
microclimate, the soil, the water sources. And then you have to choose, based on that
information, what to grow! Well, Nino wanted fruit trees. Okay. As I was saying, he was the
driver of all of this (chuckles), so I was just along for the ride. But, he, in particular, wanted
cherimoyas, and that was because he had the year before, out of curiosity, bought a cherimoya
fruit at a market and he loved it. He saved the seeds, and he planted them in pots. In fact, there
was a cherimoya tree on the property, right by the front door! After much research—this was in
1993—early days of the internet, okay? But, we learned that cherimoyas would do really well in
our area. Not from seed, however. (indicates “no” with her left pointer finger, and clears her
throat.) It–it took a big commitment, that’s for sure, because choosing to grow trees requires a
longer-term outlook. Depending on how much time and money you have, you have to, um,
invest, because the trees will take three to five years, or more, to produce, while row crops, like
flowers or microgreens, for example, they can be seasonal. It was a big decision. It was a certain
amount of trial and error—grafting, pollinating, planting. But, as it’s important to small farms in
choosing a unique or niche product, not supplied (again indicated “no” with her finger) by
larger farmers, it worked out! Now, at the time, that really wasn’t our focus, but it proved to be a
huge advantage.
A little bit about cherimoyas. They’re a subtropical fruit, native to the mountain valleys of Peru
and Ecuador. It can be large, often heart-shaped. (Reaches for a fruit and holds it up for the
camera while the camera pans in.) I can show you one. (Lays it back down, and begins to rub
her hands together). They have overlapping scales—that’s what people call them, anyway. But,
inside, it is white, and it has a custardy texture and it tastes like pineapple, banana, papaya, and
in some varieties, even a pear! (Holds up a book with header reading “Gallery of Subtropical
Plants” and contains a photo of the fruit and a cherimoya tree as well as textual information.
Camera pans in on the page with the fruit image.) Southern California provides the–the best
conditions in the United States for growing cherimoyas. The largest plantings are near Santa
Barbara where most of that fruit is exported to Asia. The season is late winter to spring, so
depending on the variety, that’s from November, December to March and April. The tricky thing
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
2
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
(rubs her hands together) about growing cherimoyas is the pollination. Each blossom is both
male and female, but bees are too big to enter this fleshy flower. To get full-sized fruit, hand
pollination with a paintbrush is the key. It’s labor intensive in June, July, and August. It’s not
difficult, but it is time consuming. Now, (looks to her left, towards the fruit) part of farming has
to be knowing the microclimate and (clears her throat) in general, in San Diego, people know
the difference between the–the cool coastal and the warmer inland valleys. But (rubs hands)
even with careful research on the–on the property, it’s–it can throw you some–some confusing
conditions, because, uh, there are different temperatures. You can have diff–places with sun, and
soil, and wind. On our property, which dropped off to a–a canyon, the temperature dropped
dramatically, including frost, and the prevailing westerly winds were an issue. We were able to
grow for ourselves in that canyon, apples, cherries, pears, fruits that needed a lot of chill time.
But we weren’t selling those. (clears her throat, plane can be heard in the background)
We also ended up, though, having to plant a wind break to protect the cherimoyas (chuckles) that
we had planted. Who knew! But, we chose wisely because we chose Satsuma tangerines, which
proved to be–be– very popular, so it all worked out. (clears her throat again)
Some research was more scientific because soil and water can be tested for pH and salinity and
minerals, and there are a lot of excellent resources out–out there that–that I need to, uh,
recommend, because um,—I’m going to read this just to make sure I get it correct—um, the
University of California Cooperative Extension has the names of labs. Okay, you have to pay for
them. But, especially soil analysis is–is important, because you need to understand the plants
ability to absorb nutrients. You can even take them leaves from your plants, and they will
analyze whether they are taking up nutrients as needed.
I also want to recommend specific groups like—we had the California Rare Fruit Growers.
There’s a–a branch in North County and also one at Balboa Park. There’s the California
Cherimoya Association and other fruits have their Associations as well. And, of course, the
United States Department of Agriculture. And I can’t forget the Master Gardener Association,
because they have workshops and blogs and so much information. And in the past 20 to 30 years,
it’s been easy to find information, easier, because of the internet. And whether you’re planting,
or pruning, or harvesting, a YouTube video can teach you (starts to chuckle) just about anything
you want! And they’re fun! So, research is easier. But I still have to say that contact with people
is key. The University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources Department—that’s
called the U.C.A.N.R.—is including–includes the County of San Diego Cooperative Extension
and the Farm and Home Advisor—that’s by county. And–and another part of the U.C.A.N.R. is
the South Coast Research and Extension Center in Irvine, and (clears throat) it’s a living
laboratory for U.C. scientists where they are conducting agricultural research. It’s a 200-acre
facility, where they have outdoor events and demonstrations and classrooms. They have a
glasshouse there. And they also have a huge cherimoya collection of trees that is just beautiful.
And, of course, that was our connection to that place, besides the great people who are there.
So, relationships and talking about them, kind of brings me to the selling part of all of this,
because when we had enough fruit to sell, the Vista Farmer’s Market was a consideration. But
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
3
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
Nino decided to try small, family-owned, independent grocers first. Not chains (indicates “no”
with her left finger). They won’t even talk to you. Even Sprouts won’t buy from individual
farmers. So, let’s find places where they will buy locally. Now, farmer’s markets do have
advantages—meeting other farmers, learning about crops, meeting the public. But, they require
labor time away from the farm and picking for unknown demand in advance. And that, with fruit
on trees, is problematic. So as an experienced (chuckles) salesman, Nino knew to find out what
the customer wanted, and he harvested by their needs! He would check their stock, or they would
call. Sometimes he would deliver two to three times a week, especially during times like the
Lunar New Year, things like that. That special attention is what builds relationships and loyalty.
He also learned to sell by (chuckles) uniform size. They didn’t want all different sizes of fruit.
They wanted uniform. But then he had to be creative, too. And he was always making sure that
he was interacting with the produce people at the store, whether they’re the guys putting out the
fruit or the managers, because that kind of connection does it all.
So, (sighs) pre-pandemic, Nino was even doing free tastings at Frazier Farms which was one of
his main sources, uh, sales–of sales. He–he would cut up (gestures cutting with a knife)
cherimoyas and take them there and they weren’t well known but once people tried them, they
were going to buy. Now, at one point, customers would see Nino delivering and they would stop
him in the parking lot, asking to buy fruit themselves. He declined right away, partly because of
the amount that they wanted. He realized that they were going to be reselling and competing with
his customer right there in the store. So, it would be also disruptive to have these people coming
to the property and wanting to buy, so, no. But it did get Nino thinking about sharing the
experience of the farm. MeetUp groups were starting at that time. They were the thing, like
signing up online for different activities. So, we started having U-Picks. We set up two timeslots
on Saturday mornings, where people could sign up online, and they would come and Nino would
give a presentation on the farm and the different fruits, and I provided samples of fruit and
preserves and–and cherimoya ice cream and recipes. Oh, they loved that! So, it was a success.
Families came with their kids, mostly from San Diego proper, you know. They were city people.
But they were enjoying an outing in the country, and they enjoyed the property. They loved
picking the fruit. So, these are people who wanted their kids to know where fruit comes from!
Wow! (laughs) And the kids especially liked picking the tangerines.
We made a lot of friends over the ten years that we did that, and we got to watch those kids grow
up. They–they also liked feeding my chickens. Now, some customers—I put that in quotes
(gestures making quotation marks with her hands) ‘cuz yes they were customers but they became
friends and they would volunteer to come and help during the summer with the hand pollination
and the–of the cherimoyas and so we–we had some–some really good connections that way. We
even found a couple of paid workers from that group.
Now, over the years, we had a lot of visitors to the farm. Um, usually by word of mouth or
connections to the Farm Bureau, and that would include restaurant owners, especially Asian and
South American, produce managers from independent grocers. I think of Barons Market,
especially, because we had one produce manager from one store come and pretty soon all of the
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
4
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
stores were buying from us. We even had wholesale produce managers (rubs hands together),
um, specialty produce in the San Diego. They–they sell to the public, but they would come and–
and visit and see the farm. And we also had students come to visit. They were from Cal Poly
Pomona and there’s a College of Agriculture Plant Sciences there, and they were taking a class.
I–I remember Dr. Greg Partida, who retired in 2010, but he had a class on subtropical fruit
production and he would bring his students on field trips to the farm.
So, that socialization is so important because farming, even on a small farm, can be really
isolating. There’s so much to do, day-to-day. People, since the pandemic, working from home,
have found out how strange that is, really, that instead of going to the office every day, they’re–
they’re at home. And–and that’s kind of like what it’s–what it is to–to be a small farmer, too.
I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, record keeping, because it’s so impart–important in
farming and with the advent of the internet and–and computers, it’s changed a lot. But, it’s still
a–a beneficial skill set, whether you’re talking about taxes, or income, or expenses, or irrigation,
equipment, payroll, any of that. But, um, another use for–for keeping track of–of information is
monitoring the production of the–the crops, whether it’s by varieties, where they’re growing on
the property, the quality from year to year. And an example of this is really in–in Nino’s
participation in the–the Cooperative Extension’s Blueberry Test Plot Program, which was twenty
years ago.
Now, traditionally blueberries were a cold weather plant that would go dormant every year. In
California, the plants bloom year-round, and they wear themselves out. So, Nino, once again,
wanted to plant things that no one else plants and there was a lot of research going on as to how
to extend the blueberry’s range. Through the Farm and Home Advisor Ramiro Lobo, Nino was
given four plants each of nine different varieties of southern blueberries. The soil pH that we had
was way too alkaline and it had to be augmented. Temperature had to be monitored. Pests
considered. The Farm Bureau was very supportive throughout all of this. They even ended up
building us a netted structure to keep the birds off. But, Nino was instrumental in monitoring and
recording the blossoms, the fruit, the production for each plant. They called him Mr. Spreadsheet
(both she and Wheeler chuckle). Well, Excel to the rescue, you know? Because, in–and—I–I
have a–a photo of him here, if you’d like to see, where he is, um, (shows a photo of Nino,
camera pans in) taking the blossoms off of the blueberry plants. Now, why would he be doing
that? You know? For two years, he did that, so that the young plants could use their energy to
grow. And then he would take the berries from each variety and weigh them and–and count
them, and that’s how they decided which varieties would be the most productive in southern
California. Now, there were other farmers doing that too, but in 2002, California produced two
million pounds of blueberries. Okay. Twenty years later, 53.4 million pounds of blueberries,
sixth in the United States. This boom is due to technological growing skills and adventurous
producers, and he was part of all of that.
My part with the blueberries was, (clears her throat) when I retired from teaching, then I was in
charge of the blueberries. Okay. But think of it this way. Four dollars for six ounces (gestures as
if telling a secret)—I was selling them at school. So, that translates to twelve dollars a pound.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
5
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
Now, what ev–other fruit is going to sell for twelve dollars a pound! In the past ten years, in the
United States, the output of blueberries has tripled. And that’s in the U.S. alone. And the main
states are Washington, Georgia, and my home state, Michigan. So, why is that increased so
much. Because of the research talking about antioxidants. So, in ten years, they have become
really huge crop.
Okay, today, what country do you think grows the most blueberries? I’ll tell you. Peru! Is that
somethin’ or what? Which, for me, is kind of a full circle because that’s where cherimoyas are
from.
Okay. So, I have just a little bit more, because I sold the farm after Nino’s death. I had three
people interested. One couple wanted it as an investment, (said in nasal utterance) ehh. Another
couple ended up buying a larger property in Valley Center. But, the–the family that I–I sold to
love it there, and they’re trying to keep it going. They have no clue how much work it takes,
especially with their three kids and two dogs, but hey. That’s–that’s–that’s their issue. They’re
keeping it going, and I–I–I wish them all the best.
Now, (clears her throat) when it–when it comes to innovation in farming, I guess that–that–that
besides his interaction with people, innovation was something that–that Nino was very attracted
to, because he was always trying new irrigation. We had installed a–a well, which saved on
water. But electricity was expensive. So, we invested in solar panels. And in the year 2000, we
were one of the fifty original installations of net metering in the–in the county. So, it was always
somethin’, you know. We had a cell tower on the property. Very good income. Verizon had been
pursuing us for several years for that. And finally we were able to get them to choose a location
and (chuckles) give us a fake tree design that was acceptable that we couldn’t see from the house.
So, always moving forward with something, that is the exciting part of changes and I mentioned
these as evidence because technological innovation in all our lives, including farming, is key.
What’s next? (puts up her hands, palms facing camera) I don’t know. Robots? (laughs) I don’t
know! But–but Nino was able to embrace new ideas and change. And new farmers are going to
have to do the same.
Wheeler: Oh. Thank you so much. It’s so exciting because we are all changing no matter what
we–what we do. The—I was really curious about—say more about how innovative—what–what
made him feel that way, think that way. Curiosity coming from another country and embracing
so many differences, but being innovative with that help, maybe in spite of it sometimes.
Cupaiuolo: Well, he had many different abilities. I had mentioned that he spoke four languages.
His father was an artist, and Nino was very artistic. So, he had a very creative part of his
personality, besides being just so outgoing. And, um, he loved to–to try new things.
Wheeler: And that is wonderful! The other thing that I think depicts all of this was the number of
articles written about him and that he helped promote, and to let the world know how he was,
um, being innovative―
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
6
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
Cupaiuolo: Uh-huh.
Wheeler: ―in a very creative way. And that personality came across, and people accepted that.
Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm.
Wheeler: And there was so much camaraderie in it. Did you ever do tours of your farm?
Cupaiuolo: Uh, yes, there were farm tours that were set up. And people, through the Farm
Bureau, would come from different parts of the country, even. They would come on a bus!
(shrugs) Because small farms, for a long time really, have been a focus of–of many different
states. We even had the president of the University of California come on one of the–the tours,
and wrote us a–a very nice thank you letter afterward, because they were interested in how much
they should be focusing on the part of the University of California that was devoted to
agriculture and farming.
Wheeler: That’s great. Would—sometimes when we’re driving in the freeway and it’s pretty
much a parking lot for a couple of hours of the day, and we get this vision of wouldn’t it be nice
to be on a little farm or little acreage somewhere, do you have any advice to people who have
that dream.
Cupaiuolo: (purses her lips and blows out air, then clears her throat) Well, I think that it takes
more than people think in terms of resources and, um, research (chuckles), and it–it’s not
something to jump into lightly. It is possible to buy a farm that’s already operating, and that–
that’s what the young family did from–from me, last year. So—
Wheeler: And the cost of real estate has made that less available to a lot of people, too.
Cupaiuolo: Well, that is–that–that’s (nodding)
Wheeler: So much going on in this farming industry. That’s why it’s very important to have the
history of how it has been, in order to build on to the future. Do you happen to have a photo of
Nino?
Cupaiuolo: I do! (reaches to her right, and pulls out a photo). What is–what’s happening to that.
There it is!
Wheeler: Oh, and he has some of the cherimoyas.
Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm.
Wheeler: That one is large! How large do they get?
Cupaiuolo: Well, that was a three pounder.
Wheeler: Mmm–wow.
Cupaiuolo: Yeah, that–that would be fifteen dollars right there.
Wheeler: Yes.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
7
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
Cupaiuolo: And you know what? People would buy them!
Wheeler: It’s amazing the costs of them. But now that I understand more about the–the detail and
the–the labor intensiveness of it, um—
Cupaiuolo: Course, if that–that wouldn’t all be fruit-less, if people didn’t love the fruit. So—
Wheeler: Right. Exactly. Um—
Cupaiuolo: But, hey, look at what we pay for blueberries per month.
Wheeler: Do you know of any other orchards that are doing that right now? Or is it a popular—
Cupaiuolo: For the cherimoya?
Wheeler: Yes.
Cupaiuolo: Not that I know of. I mean, there are people on the side. Competition. There was a
guy in Oceanside who had purchased a cherimoya orchard and he had small, misshapen fruit.
And he offered to sell it to Frazier Farms for three dollars a pound rather than the five dollars a
pound that we were selling fruit. So the produce manager from Frader–Frazier Farms came to
Nino and said, “I have this guy that’s going to sell me fruit at three dollars a pound, so that’s all
I’m going to pay you.” And Nino said, “eh-eh.” (gestures with her finger as if saying no). So, he
was then out there exploring new avenues. But, it didn’t take long before that fruit just sat in the
store and wouldn’t sell. No matter what the price was. Because people had expectations of what
they had seen before.
Wheeler: Yes, wow. Very interesting.
Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm.
Wheeler: Thank you so much for sharing this part of para-agriculture, which is a pretty new
phrase to a—phase for a lot of us.
Cupaiuolo: Mm-hmm. It was new to me.
Wheeler: And the up—the fact that we are the largest county in the United States with that kind
of urban and city mixture makes it even more diversified and more interesting to live here. It’s
not wonder to me that the price of land has gone up as much as it has. It’s very desirable. The—
We are, however, in my humble opinion, at a cusp of which direction are we going in the future.
And how will agriculture look in twenty years from now. But, you’ve given us a wonderful
foundation for how it came this far, what kind of innovation it took, what kind of knowledge. It’s
not for the weak—physically, mentally, or otherwise. And I’m so appreciative of what you’ve
done. Thank you so much.
Cupaiuolo: Oh, it’s been my pleasure.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
8
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
GLOSSARY
Barons Market (pg.5)
California Cherimoya Association (pg.3)
California Rare Fruit Growers (pg.3)
Cherimoya (pg.2)
College of Agriculture Plant Science [Cal Poly Pomona] (pg. 5)
Cooperative Extension’s Blueberry Test Plot Program (pg.5)
County of San Diego Cooperative Extension (pg.3)
Farm and Home Advisor (pg.3,5)
Farm Bureau (pg.5)
Frazier Farms (pg.4)
Fuerte avocados (pg.2)
Fuyu persimmons (pg.2)
Hachiya persimmons (pg.2)
Hass [avocado] (pg.2)
Lobo, Ramiro (pg.5)
Lunar New Year (pg.4)
Master Gardener Association (pg.3)
Museum of History [San Marcos] (pg.1)
North County Oral History Initiative (pg.1)
Para-agriculture (pg.8)
Para-farmers (pg.1)
Partida, Dr. Greg (pg.5)
Satsuma tangerines (pg.3)
South Coast Research and Extension Center (pg.3)
United States Department of Agriculture (pg.3)
University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources Department [U.C.A.N.R.] (pg.3)
University of California Cooperative Extension (pg.3)
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
9
2023-04-04
�SUSAN CUPAIUOLO
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-02-23
U-Picks (pg.5)
Valley Center (pg.6)
Vista Farmer’s Market (pg.4)
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
10
2023-04-04
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Transcripts
Description
An account of the resource
Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cupaiuolo, Susan. Interview transcript. February 23, 2023
Description
An account of the resource
The Primavera Orchard was owned and operated by Giovanni and Susan Cupaiuolo from 1991 until Nino’s death in 2020 in Vista, California. It was a six acre peri-urban farm specializing in the growth, preparation, promotion and detailed hand-pollinated fruit from a variety of cherimoya trees. Cherimoya trees are a tropical fruit tree which will only grow in Southern California and are very expensive due to the complicated and dedicated care of the trees and cultivations. The Cupaiuolos later introduced blueberries to the area to provide this northern fruit into the local markets during the northern dormant season. Other fruits and vegetables were grown for personal use.
This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Susan Cupaiuolo
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lucy Wheeler
Melissa Martin
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-23
Subject
The topic of the resource
Blueberries
Cherimoya
Orchards -- California -- Vista
Tree crops
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Vista (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Susan Cupaiuolo
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives@csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CupaiuoloSusan_WheelerLucy_2023-02-23_transcript
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Lucy Wheeler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
George and Alethea Nagata
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Nagata, George and Alethea. Interview November 16, 2022 SC027-33 1:06:45 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Japanese Americans Japanese Americans -- Forced removal and internment, 1942-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Concentration camps -- Arizona -- Yuma Poston Relocation Center (Ariz.) Agricultural laborers -- California Agricultural laborers -- Colorado Family farms -- California George and Alethea Nagata Lucy Wheeler mp4 NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.mp4 1.0:|23(9)|31(10)|38(15)|46(5)|53(9)|60(9)|67(11)|74(13)|94(17)|112(5)|133(12)|154(7)|161(3)|168(7)|179(6)|193(13)|209(14)|226(10)|233(13)|244(13)|251(14)|258(9)|272(15)|283(9)|296(17)|307(12)|314(18)|332(7)|342(5)|350(6)|364(15)|379(16)|390(7)|407(7)|415(5)|451(4)|463(3)|475(5)|483(12)|490(14)|499(14)|507(7)|518(12)|525(10)|554(7)|562(4)|583(9)|600(6)|612(9)|620(12)|627(10)|646(17)|657(3)|670(4)|677(13)|689(10)|698(9)|721(15)|757(4)|788(7)|808(6)|818(15)|826(9)|841(7)|853(9)|872(8)|930(6) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/c63c2f7309ad26fa08b81a49964676b7.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction/ Family backgrounds George and Alethea Nagata explain their family backgrounds. They are both second generation Japanese-American citizens. George Nagata was born in Gardena, CA in 1924. He explains that his father immigrated to the United States from the city of Kumamoto, Japan around 1900. He moved around the country working various jobs, including in farming. His parents married around 1920, and the family had a farm by the time George was born. The family later moved to Torrance, CA and then to Bellflower, CA in order find better farming conditions.
 ; 
 ; Althea Nagata was born in 1926. Her parents moved around California during her early childhood, living in Orange County, Bonsall, and San Luis Rey. Her father became involved in farming after immigrating to the U.S. from Japan in 1905 and settling in Orange County, where he began growing peppers. Arizona ; Bellflower (Calif.) ; Bonsall (Calif.) ; Farming ; Gardena (Calif.) ; Immigration ; Kumamoto, Japan ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Melons ; Orange County (Calif.) ; Peppers ; San Francisco (Calif.) ; San Luis Rey (Calif.) ; Seattle (Wash.) ; Second-generation Japanese American citizens ; Strawberries ; Texas ; Torrance (Calif.) 0 650 George Nagata’s education/ The family farm George Nagata recounts his school years as a teenager. Nagata explains that due to financial difficulties and his father’s ill health, his family was forced to commute throughout Southern California throughout his high school years, which interrupted his schooling. He was also registered at two different high schools including a school in Oceanside, CA. He also explains that his mother took over the farming duties due to his father’s health. The family harvested strawberries and Italian squash and sold the produce to the San Francisco market. Education ; Farming ; High school ; Italian squash ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; San Francisco (Calif.) ; Squash ; Strawberries ; Student 0 1007 George Nagata’s internment/ Work in Chicago George Nagata recounts his time at the Poston War Relocation Center, located in Yuma County, AZ. Nagata was only sixteen years old when his family was removed and interred starting May 15, 1942. He recalls the dark train ride and internees having to stuff their own mattresses with straw upon arrival to the camp. He was interned at Poston for a little over a year before leaving for Chicago, IL with a friend. He worked in Chicago in an auto mechanic shop for about four of five months before his family was released from Poston. Nagata explains that he and his family met one another again in Colorado in order to continue farm work. He farmed in Colorado for a man who owned an onion seed company. Nagata explains that he was never paid for his work. He remained in Colorado until 1944 or 1945 when he moved back to California. Auto mechanic ; Auto repair ; Chicago (Ill.) ; Colorado ; Farming ; Internees ; Internment ; Japanese internment ; Onion seed ; Santa Fe (NM.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; World War Two World War 2 Poston War Relocation Center ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 1510 George Nagata returns to California George Nagata discusses his return to Vista, CA after working in Colorado. He recounts moving into a friend’s avocado grove and stayed in a room that was converted from a chicken coop. In 1945, they found thirty acres of land that they were able to lease for a year before buying the property in order to begin farming. Nagata recalls that they originally lived on a tent on the property because there were no houses in the area. Avocado grove ; Chicken coop ; Colorado ; Farming ; Vista (Calif.) 0 1662 Alethea Nagata’s internment Alethea Nagata recounts her time at the Poston War Relocation Center located in Yuma County, AZ. She explains how her father rented land and raised strawberries in Rancho Santa Margarita. She recalls after the war broke out, her father and grandfather were arrested by the FBI and were sent to the San Diego jail before being transferred to Topanga, CA. Eventually, their entire family was sent to the Poston concentration camp. Nagata was in high school at the time of her internment. Nagata explains that her family did not experience the same harsh conditions that her husband’s family experienced. Although the Nagata’s families were both interned at Poston, the couple met after the war. Their families were also placed in different blocks at Poston. Arrest ; Farming ; FBI ; Internees ; Internment ; Japanese internment ; Poston War Relocation Center ; Rancho Santa Margarita (Calif.) ; San Diego (Calif.) ; Strawberries ; Topanga (Calif.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 1912 Alethea Nagata returns to California Alethea Nagata discusses returning to California after internment. She explains that her family was split up after their release from the Poston camp: her father and grandfather were sent to New Mexico, while the rest of the family returned to North County San Diego. It is unclear from the interview, but it can be inferred that her father and grandfather eventually made their way back to North County as well by 1945. Alethea Nagata’s family farm was left in the care of Escondido High School’s Vice Principal Mr. Grave and other caretakers until they could return home. Escondid High School ; Escondido (Calif.) ; Farming ; Lordsburg (NM.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; Poston War Relocation Center ; San Luis Rey (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Santa Fe (NM.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 2122 Education in internment/ George Nagata’s early career in farming George and Alethea Nagata discuss their education while in the concentration camps. They explain that while Alethea was able to graduate in the Poston camp, George did not have the opportunity to go to school. George Nagata also explains that when he applied to night school in Chicago, the institution did not consider Poston an accredited school and told him he would have to start his education over before applying to their program. George Nagata also discusses how he began his career in farming. He explains the challenges he faced in obtaining and paying back loans for his supplies, and how weather conditions ruined his crops. He also describes how they later invested in a strawberry freezer business, which also led to other financial challenges for the farm. Education ; Fallbrook (Calif.) ; Farming ; Freezer business ; Loans ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Night School ; Poston War Relocation Center ; Strawberries ; Student ; Ventura (Calif.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 2664 Alethea Nagata’s family farm/ Early experimentation on crops Alethea Nagata discusses her family farm in San Marcos, CA. Alethea Nagata describes her family’s farming business, which was led by her father, and later taken over by her brothers. The family grew crops such as asparagus, chili peppers, romaine lettuce, tomatoes, and strawberries. She explains that her family also grew cauliflower, which was not a money-making crop, but it helped to maintain workers. Nagata also recounts her father teaching her to drive a Caterpillar and her sister driving trucks around the farm. She reflects how she and her two sisters were involved on the farm and how her father respected women. 
 ; 
 ; George Nagata also explains how he worked with Althea’s Uncle Fred to encourage the experimentation on berries. They were involved in organizations such as the Farm Bureau and the Bracero program. He also recalls how they travelled to U.C. Davis to encourage the university in developing a new variety of berries that would be suitable for Southern California. They eventually went to the Legislature and asked one of the representatives to pass a budget which would allow farmers to experiment on new varieties of strawberries. George and Alethea also explain how they met on a blind date set up by Alethea’s Uncle Fred. 
 ; Asparagus ; Bracero program ; Cauliflower ; Chili peppers ; Davis (Calif.) ; Experimentation on berries ; Farm Bureau ; Farming ; Romaine lettuce ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Strawberries ; Tomatoes ; Truck driving ; U.C. Davis ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII 0 3211 Growth and diversity of crops George Nagata discusses the growth and diversity of crops in farming. He explains that growth and diversity began to improve when experimentation was granted in Southern California. The experiment transferred from the USDA property, to a plot in Orange County, before eventually finding home on Irvine Ranch. They developed various varieties of strawberries during the experiment. Crops ; Experimentation on berries ; Farming ; Growth and diversity of crops ; Irvine Ranch ; Orange County (Calif.) ; Strawberries ; USDA 0 3400 Farming blueberries and cherimoyas The Nagatas discuss growing blueberries and cherimoyas on their farm. They explain how labor-intensive it can be to harvest cherimoyas ; that although it is easy to grow cherimoyas in the Southern California climate, the fruit has to be hand-pollinated. Blueberries ; Cherimoyas ; Farming ; Farming techniques ; Hand-pollination ; Innovation in farming ; Oceanside (Calif.) 0 3565 Future of farming The Nagatas discuss the future of farming. They explain that farmers face many difficulties in succeeding in the market due to today’s political climate. They reflect on many issues such as the water rationing, changes to the global market, and competition. California laws ; Farming ; Future of farming ; Global market ; Market competition ; Political climate ; Politics ; Specialty crops ; Water rationing 0 Oral history Oral History of 2nd generation (George and Alethea Nagata) who represent four generations of Japanese Americans contributing to the agricultural industry of North County San Diego, California. During their interview the Nagatas discuss their family history, their forced internments at Poston Relocation Center in Yuma, Arizona during World War II, their lives post-internment, and their working lives as agricultural laborers and family farmers. The Nagatas discuss their operations in detail and muse on the future of farming in the United States. Lucy Wheeler: Today is November 16th, 2022, on behalf of the North County Oral History Initiative Project. We’re here at the Nagata Farm, in Oceanside bordering on Fallbrook and Bonsall. My name is Lucy Wheeler, and let’s go inside and meet them! (Lucy is initially on a balcony or deck, then moves inside to meet the Nagatas) Lucy Wheeler: Good morning. George and Alethea Nagata (both nod) Good morning. Wheeler: It’s so nice to be here, and I’d like to introduce you to our audience. Um, on our left we have Mr. George Nagata. George Nagata: Yep. (nodding) Wheeler: And Alethea Nagata, Nagata. (Mrs. Nagata nods) Um, they are second generation of four generations— George Nagata: (nodding) Yes, correct. Wheeler: —and we would love to hear your story, about how your families came to America, to the United States, and mostly just about how you’ve managed to live to your age. So let’s begin by where you were born, and what year, and then just briefly an introduction about how your ancestors came here. It’s your story, but predominantly setting the stage with your history. Do you want to go first, George? George Nagata: Alright. I was born in Gardena, California, in 1924, April 24th. Um, um, my father came over in about 1900, from, uh, a city of Kumamoto, Japan, which is in the south, southern Japan. And, uh, the family were, uh—they loaned money and, loan sharks I guess you’d call ‘em. And, um, they were pretty well off, and they would, uh, uh, have the rice as a collateral for the loaner to bring in. So, they would pile up a lot of rice and, and then they couldn’t pay, they took the rice. But they didn’t know what to do with it. So, after a while they decided to start a sake factory, and they progressed in it, and, and they were pretty well off. Uh, my father just went to school, and, and in fact he graduated from university and he was well educated for, um, people at that time. And so when he―he said that he used to get up in the morning and he had nothing to do so he would go out hunting for birds and he would bring it home, and, and eat those birds. But he got tired of it, and he wanted a, a more adventurous so he decided to come to United States and at first he landed in, uh, uh, Seattle, then came to San Francisco, and he went to night school there and he was a house boy for some old people. And, uh, uh, he didn’t—he learned his English, so he went into various business because if he needed money he would just send a letter to Japan. They would send him money to do whatever he wanted to do. So, he did some farming of cotton in Arizona, and then in Texas. But he wasn’t successful. He said he went to work for a railroad, and uh, and, uh, uh, in Arizona, and uh after a while he said he got tired of that. So, he, uh, come down to Los Angeles and he was just moaning around and doing a little farm work for people and I guess he did some joint venture with other people. But, he wasn’t successful so he decided at age, about, uh, forty-eight, he thought “Oh, I’m getting old. I’d better go find a bride!” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) So, he went to Japan and married my mother, and they came over in about 1920. And their first child was born in, in 1921, but only lived for nine months. She had diphtheria and she died. And so, next child was myself. In 1924, I was born, and my father bought a, a farm from some friend who was, uh, uh,―made enough money to go back to Japan. So, my father bought this farm, and they were working it, but they weren’t that successful. So, um, they decided to move from Gardena to Torrance and I was about four years old, and, and, and my mother would take the uncooked rice and they’d build a little pot, a fireplace, and then they, they asked me to watch them so that a fire won’t go out and I, I kept feeding the wood in there to keep the uh, rice cooked. By 12 o’clock the rice was ready, We would have a lunch. And then my mother would go back to work. And, uh, from Torrance, uh, we farmed there for about three years and my dad decided to go to Heinz, which is uh, uh, near Bellflower, California. And we were, uh, farming there and he planted uh, uh, strawberries and some melons and I was about six or seven years old. And dad would say that “I’m going to teach you how to drive a horse.” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) So he made a little sled, and, and he wanted me to pick the melon and put it in this box, and haul it back to the shed, so he could pack it. And I did that for a while. But, you know, being so young that I, I wanted to play! I did not want to work. (chuckles) Uh, he used to tell me “You gotta help me.” And, my brother Harry was born in 1925 (turns his head towards his wife) and that was in, um, Torrance, and— Wheeler: Let’s, uh— George Nagata: And uh, huh? (turns to look at his wife) Wheeler: Oh, I was just going to say, let’s let her tell her part up to that point. George Nagata: Okay. Wheeler: And then we’ll connect how you met each other. So, tell us about your— Alethea Nagata: I was born in Bonsall, California. Wheeler: Very close! Alethea Nagata: October 15th, 1926. And my parents had moved from, from Orange County to Bonsall, to change a little bit of their f—their, you know—to a new land, sort of. And so that’s where we, um, settled for a while. And then, uh, he moved to San Luis Rey where he started farming again. Wheeler: What were your parents’ name? Alethea Nagata: Wor Tasuke and Kane Yaskochi Wheeler: Okay. Alethea Nagata: And (clears her throat) they were both married already in Japan in about 1919. And they, they came to America separately. My father came about 1920 with his father, and my mother came about a year—I believe, about a year or so later. And, uh, they settled in Orange County. Wheeler: And your father was here in—what year did you say? 1920? Alethea Nagata: About 1920. Wheeler: But his father— Alethea Nagata: Was here earlier. Wheeler: Earlier. Alethea Nagata: He arrived in the U.S. 1905, right after the San Francisco earthquake. And that’s where their journey sort of began. And he―um, my grandfather did various jobs along the way, and then―in 1905―and then he landed in Orange County, where there were, a few, I believe, a few Japanese already there. And so, he started the, the growing peppers. Wheeler: And became the Pepper King? Alethea Nagata: Well, (smiles) that’s what they called him. Wheeler: (laughs) Alethea Nagata: Anyway, that was sort of the beginning of the peppers. Wheeler: Very good. Well, how did you two meet? George Nagata: Well, uh, that was after, after the World War II. Well, uh— Wheeler: So, it’s a substantial difference then— George Nagata: yea, (nods) Wheeler: —in the time that you came and when you met. Alethea Nagata: Yes! Well this was after the war, so— Wheeler: Okay. Alethea Nagata: So, there— Wheeler: In the, in the interim, tell us where you went to school then, um. Were you in school in, um? George Nagata: Oh, I was a, a, in school in, in, Oceanside, before evacuation. The problem was that, uh, when we moved to Oceanside in 1940, my father got sick, yeah. We were building a house so we could move to Oceanside from Bellflower, California where he had farmed, and I was about fifteen years old. And he was building his house and then he said “I got a backache, and it’s really bad.” So, I took him to a doctor, and the doctor says “I can’t help you.” He said “You gotta go to a specialist.” And, uh, we were, uh, uh, broke because we just moved and we put all the money into building the house and, and preparing the land and so, uh, my dad went to the doctor and they found out he had pleurisy and so they put him in the hospital and uh, uh, he was in the hospital for three months! And, uh, we had to commute from Oceanside to the Los Angeles every day. So, my mother said “Let’s, uh, live with a friend in Los Angeles where it’s closer to see dad.” So, we, uh, my mother and I went to live with this friend of our family and we commuted to the hospital every night from there. From Downey to Los Angeles. And so, I was living in Downey, so I had to still go to school, so I registered at Downey High and went to school there a while. But, before we moved—when we moved to Oceanside, I started school in Oceanside and went about a month, or a month and a half to Oceanside. Then I transferred back to Downey and then once my dad got out of the hospital I went back to Oceanside and my dad couldn’t work. So, my mother did all the work. And, uh, I went back to Oceanside but my studies all messed up because of moving all the time, and, uh, so— Wheeler: Were you farming at the time? George Nagata: No, um, my mother was doing the farming. But we helped out as much as possible. We were absolutely broke! When my dad got sick, it cost us a lot of money to take care of him. So, we were—so, my mother had to go see friends to borrow money from them, because we couldn’t get any money. We didn’t have any property, anything to— We had an old automobile and an old truck, (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) so— Wheeler: What kind of farming did you do, what—? George Nagata: Uh, just had five acres of strawberries. Wheeler: Oh! That’s exciting. George Nagata: With strawberries, you plant the first year, and take the runner, and plant the runner, so you don’t harvest till second year! So, when we were farming there the first year, we planted a little bit of Italian squash, and we sold it to San Francisco, because the market was better there, and that’s how we were able to feed ourselves, and also, we went to work for other farmers. We did a bit of harvesting, but they, uh, wanted me to drive a horse with a cultivator— Wheeler: (laughs) George Nagata: —because my dad taught me how to do it, and they needed a person to drive the horse. So, I was assigned to do that every day! I had to harness the horse and get the cultivator, and cultivate the crop! Wheeler: And now, how, how old were you then when the second world war started? George Nagata: Well, I was sixteen. Wheeler: And tell us a little bit about—since you had not met each other at that time— George Nagata: No, no— Alethea Nagata: Not yet. George Nagata: No— Wheeler: Tell me how you— George Nagata: No, that was before the war. Now, uh, come May, I think about the 15th of May of 1942, we were evacuated. We were ordered to go to the Santa Fe Train Depot, and load, get on this train. And so, they said that you could only take two suitcases each. And so, we went and bought a suit—suitcase for each of us. And, and we packed up our suitcase. We went to the train depot and we boarded a train in the morning, and they had NPs on the train. They wouldn’t let us open the window or anything. It’s all shaded. And we didn’t know where we were going. And about three o’clock in the afternoon, uh, we went and the train stopped in Barstow, and they gave us a sandwich so that, you know, then we continued to Poston, Arizona. And when we got to Arizona, they put us on a bus and transported us to the concentration camp, and at first we had to stuff the mattress with straw because there was nothing there. They had to make―we got there at 8:30, 9 o’clock at night and we had to make our own bed. They gave us a cot and for each of us and so we went to sleep, and— Wheeler: How long were you there? (clears her throat) George Nagata: We were—Well, I was, I myself, was there only for a little over a year. And I, I was a, a—my friend said―he was going to Chicago―“Don’t you wanna go to Chicago?” I said “Yeah, I’ll call along, tag along with you, because I don’t know the country. I want to go.” So, I went to Chicago myself, with this friend and I, I learned how to be a auto mechanic, because I worked in the shop. There is a lot of people who were experienced mechanics and they taught me how to do all this repair. So, we had a full garage and all these people would teach me. So I was pretty confident that I could make a living. So, I went to Chicago and got a job as a mechanic. And, and I worked there for about four or five months, and, uh, my dad said that they gotta leave the camp, because they’re asking everybody to leave. So, my dad says “Meet me in Colorado. I’m going to see if we could do a little farming there.” So, um, I gave my job up and I went to Grand Junction, Colorado, and my father―the reason my father said that we could do some farming was because his nephew was from Hawaii and Santa Fe, New Mexico in a concentration camp, and his assets were frozen because he was an enemy Asian. But that money will be released if you want it for farming, and he said you’ll loan us the money, whatever you want. So, he said that he could come and live on the farm with us. So, my dad took him up on it, and we borrowed the money from him, and we started a little farm and I went to work for some man that owned a seed company. And he said “Why don’t you farm for me?” And he said “Go drive a tractor.” Well, I never drove a tractor, but anyway he says “You know how to drive?” I says “Yeah, I know how to drive.” So, I went there then he looked at me and he said “You don’t know how to drive.” Wheeler: (laughs) How long were you in Colorado? George Nagata: I was in Colorado ‘til 1944. From say ’43 to ’44, was it ’45 that I came to California? (turns to his wife) Alethea Nagata: (starts to laugh, as does Linda) I think so. I’m not sure what happened with you. George Nagata: We were farming and this man who owned this seed company was a crook. We never, I never got paid for working for him or then he said that if could grow some onion seed, that’s (unclear) to England, and he said “I’ll pay you for growing that thing.” And when it come to the end, we harvested it and gave him the seed, and I never seen a dime of it. Wheeler: Oh my! (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) George Nagata: And I asked the farmer that was next door who was also a evacuee that come out of a concentration camp to do a little farming. There was about five or six together and they were farming and, uh, they grew the onion seed for him. There was four or five other farmers. They said “Oh, that’s a good deal.” They all grew onion seed. And the company in England sent a check directly to those farmers. And the guy in the seed company, he really got mad and he said “They were supposed to pay me. And they said that if I sent it direct, that I was supposed to get a commission.” And my friend says “Okay, I’ll pay you commission, whatever you want.” He says “No, that won’t do.” He says “I want the check and that’s the only way I’ll accept it.” So everybody took the check and signed it and gave it to him, and they didn’t see a dime! (shrugs his shoulders incredulously and laughs) Wheeler: Oh. Wow! George Nagata: They said “We were stupid, because there’s no recourse because we signed (gestures with both hands to indicate signing a document) off the check.” (raises hands to indicate giving something up) So, uh, and this guy had a big farm in, uh, in Gilroy, California. And all my friend says is “Hey, forget it.” He says “You’re not going to get paid,” and sure enough― Wheeler: So, you left and came back to California, then? George Nagata: So, uh, after the war, we were allowed to come back to California, so I came to California to see how we could get back and where we could go. And, a friend of ours, uh, had a friend in Vista and he was a doctor and he―they own an avocado grove, and there was a house on it with a little shack there that was a chicken coop converted into a room. So, when we moved to California, he said “Stay in this chicken coop for a while.” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) So, what we did―we just―I loaded the truck up and a little pickup and we brought all of our stuff over. And we lived in the chicken coop and we were looking for land where we could farm a lease. We don’t have enough money to buy any property, so we, uh, uh, found, uh, uh, thirty acres of land that he wanted to sell. But, he said “I tell you what I’ll do. I’ll lease, lease it to you, uh, and, uh, you have to buy the property after one year.” So, we decided we’d better go ahead and get that land. So, we went there. There’s no house or anything. So, we put up a tent and lived in the tent and the houses were hard to get because right after the war there was nothing. There was a pre-hab house that was on sale. It’s not made out of, uh, wood. It’s, it’s, uh, the wood is hemlock, but it’s more of a composition material and we bought that and put it together and we lived in this house. And then, uh― Wheeler: This was in 1945? George Nagata: (nods) 1945. Wheeler: Okay. Let’s stop and, and have Alethea tell us about what― Alethea Nagata: Well, so this is, this is before the camp. Wheeler: Right. Alethea Nagata: And my father was―had a farm in Rancho Santa Margarita. He rented land. That was before it was turned into Camp Pendleton. And, (clears her throat) and he was raising strawberries there. And that’s when the, um, when the war broke out and the FBI picked him up there, um, in Rancho Santa Margarita. Well, he was living in San Luis Rey, but he was going back and forth to Santa Margarita. He rented the property from Rancho Santa Margarita, from a gentleman named Whitman. (clears throat) And, uh, uh, (clears throat) and then, um, he was―the FBI came to this ranch Santa Margarita and picked him up. And I was in San Marcos, living with my grandparents. And that’s where they picked up my grandfather, the same day. Wheeler: Was this Kiso? Alethea Nagata: Yes, Kiso. And they took my father and Kiso to the San Diego jail, and they stayed overnight there. And then (clears throat), and then they transferred them to a, I believe it’s a Tohanga, California, in Los Angeles. And so, we as a family were able to go and see them. And that’s where our journey, uh, begins with our family getting ready to go to camp. ‘Cuz I was going to Escondido High School, and then, uh, because the war had broken out, we, uh, we had to, uh, go to get ready to go to camp. And my uncle was trying to decide whether to move our whole family to Colorado because, uh, as long as you’re not on the west coast, you could, you could, uh, you know, farm, uh, in Colorado, or probably in the Midwest. But, my father, uh, said not to go, but to go to camp. So that’s what we did. We all got to, got ready to go to camp. Wheeler: And where was the― Alethea Nagata: And we ended up in Poston. Wheeler: Oh. Alethea Nagata: Um, my experience was not, uh, as, as harsh as his (points to Mr. Nagata), because, um, other family members had gone a little earlier and did the beds and things. So, um, I didn’t―I―my grandmother wasn’t in very good condition. So, we probably went a couple of days later. And so, uh, the cots and things, the ones that went first, you know, got theirs, or got it ready for us. So, we―we ended up in Camp One in Poston, Arizona and I believe you ended up in Poston (turning her head to look at Mr. Nagata), but in a different, uh― Wheeler: Different section? Alethea Nagata: Block. They were broken up into blocks. Wheeler: So, you had quite an experience before you’d even gotten married and established your― Alethea Nagata: Oh, yes! (laughing) Wheeler: ―careers in farming. Um, tell us about when you were allowed to come back. What changed your lives after that, besides getting married and meeting each other? Alethea Nagata: Well, my father and grandfather were sent to, uh, to Santa Fe, New Mexico and Lordsburg, New Mexico. They were in different facilities from us. They were, uh―my grandfather was released earlier than my father, was sent to the Poston camp where we were. And then my father was released, uh, I believe about 1944, and, um, and he came back to Poston. But, uh, in the meantime, we were living separately. Wheeler: Yes. Um, when you came back then, where did―when you came back, where did you―? You probably came back to Oceanside? George Nagata: (nods) We came back to Oceanside. Wheeler: And who― Alethea Nagata: My, my father and uh, uncle, and uh, my grandfather’s place was in San Marcos. Wheeler: Okay. Alethea Nagata: And my father had a place in San Luis Rey. And so, uh, his―his farm―we left the farm in, um―my grandfather’s farm was left in charge of a vice principal of Escondido High School. And he, he took over and―and we hired a, a family man to come in and oversee the place. And, uh, they lived in my grandfather’s house. There was a main house and then there was a kitchen area. And so, the people who, uh, the vice principal hired was a―well their name was Tarbutton. (laughs) I remember the name. And um―uh, the kitchen area was a―was a fairly large, and so the family was able to live there. And the main house, uh, was left, just left. And, uh, so when we came back from camp, that’s where we fir―we landed in San Marcos where my grandfather’s place. And my father had returned from camp just, just a―(shakes her head and tries to speak) when he was able, they were allowed to come back. So, he came back by himself with, I believe, my uncle’s wife and, and they planted, um, zucchini, I believe, some kind of a early crop. So, then he, then he, then he came back to Poston and picked us up. So, then we all came back later, just a little bit later. 1945. Wheeler: Wow. So, you were just― Alethea Nagata: But we do have, we had a place to―at least we had a home. Wheeler: Yes. Alethea Nagata: Yeah. And, uh― Wheeler: Exactly. Alethea Nagata: Mr. Grave, the vice principal, uh, took care of everything for us. So that was very nice. Wheeler: So, when did you graduate from high school, then? Alethea Nagata: I graduated in camp. Wheeler: Oh, did you? Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh. George Nagata: Well, I didn’t get to go to school. Wheeler: Okay, that―and that was probably not uncommon. George Nagata: Yeah. Wheeler: So, then actually― Alethea Nagata: And it wasn’t accepted either, or― George Nagata: So, when I was in Chicago, I wanted to go to night school. And I applied there, and they said that, that concentration camp I was in was not an acclaimed school, so you’re going to have to start over again. So, I says “Oh, I can’t start over again.” (both he and Wheeler laugh) So, uh, I didn’t get any education at all. Wheeler: No, but sometimes it’s not just all education in the school. So, what happened then after ’45 that you came back and started again? George Nagata: Uh, it was very tough (shaking his head). We didn’t have any equipment, and so, so (cell phone starts to ring). Excuse me. (reaches into pocket for cell phone) I don’t know who is calling. (looks at screen, and shakes his head) Scam! (Wheeler and Alethea Nagata laugh) George Nagata: So, when we got back to California, um, I went to the bank to borrow money and they laughed at me and said “You know, to tell you the truth, I’m not loaning you my money. He says “The bank has a depositor. They all deposit the money, and I’m responsible for it. So, I gotta have a collateral, whatever you own. But, I don’t own a thing, ‘cuz I can’t loan you any money.” So, in order for us to farm, we had to have a little bit of backing and so, uh, the L.A. produce market was loaning money to the growers, to advance the money, and they get all the produce. So, we borrowed the money from them, and started growing and sometimes it pays, and sometimes it doesn’t, because the market was, you know, some oversupply of tomatoes and things. And I would go over there and I would borrow money from, uh, for uh, buy fertilizer on credit. And they would just loan me the money, and one company there, I owed about three thousand dollars, and they wanted to get paid. I said “I don’t have any money right now. So, can you wait?” But what happened was that I planted, uh, twenty acres of strawberries and it was ready to harvest when I got hailed out. Because all the hail was just deforming the whole plant. And never produced a single berry! And so, I had all this money tied up into strawberries. And I can’t harvest anything. And the supply companies, this was, uh, uh, the fertilizer and insecticide I bought, I couldn’t pay for it. So, they wanted to sue me. And they reported it to the Credit Bureau that I haven’t paid for one year and they’re going to, uh, to file a lawsuit against me. And so, uh, when they had filed, I went back to the produce house, and I begged them to loan me some more money. I gotta pay that guy, or he’s going to sue me. And so, uh, I was able to borrow enough money to pay the, that fertilizer company off. And there was more, other companies, the seed companies. And I owed them money. They said they would hold off. And so next year I figured well, what I’m going to do is double the acreage of strawberries, and try to get the money back. And I planted forty acres of strawberries and we started harvesting in April and there was a beautiful crop! My God! Everybody was envious. I was harvesting 4,000 boxes a day. And all of a sudden it started to rain. (Wheeler and Alethea Nagata chuckle) And for two weeks straight! And it just destroyed the whole berries. And so, uh, his uncle (he points to his wife) was familiar with some freezer company in Fallbrook there and they talked him into starting a strawberry freezer! And, uh, he come to me and said “Hey, why don’t you invest in this. All the growers will put up money, and we’ll go ahead and process the strawberries.” And we were, before that we were sending our frozen berries to Smucker’s. Well, they paid pretty good. Well, I said “Fred, I think we shouldn’t go into this business. It’s a risky business.” He says “No, it’s a sure thing.” But, his company went bankrupt so he got a job in Oxnard or― Alethea Nagata: Ventura. George Nagata: Ventura, for his chili company. And he let us go and left his freezer go. But we were members of the Freezers so we had to ship it to him. So, I―the second crop, the rain had stopped, so we sent all of our berries to this freezer, and, and, uh, to buy the can and buy the sugar, well, somebody has to guarantee the payment on it. See? And so, about four or five of us volunteered to go ahead and sign the agreement that we’re responsible. Well, at the end of the season, they can’t pay for the cans, they can’t pay for the sugar. And so, they froze my bank account! Because I was one of the guaranteers. And hell, I couldn’t―I had workers, and I couldn’t―and my brother said “Hey, they froze the account. We can’t pay the, the help. We’ve got to pay the help.” So, “Oh, my god.” We went back to the produce house and borrowed some more money, and, and we were able to pay American Can and sugar. All of us growers put up the money to pay this off. And then the company went bankrupt. The strawberry in a frozen can, we―W.H. Ruth Company is a marketing (unclear), and they put it in a cold storage. And they couldn’t sell it, so they had it in cold storage so long that the storage fee ate up all of it. (chuckles) Wheeler: Right. George Nagata: And so, you know, we were out of― Wheeler: And there’s the― George Nagata: We took a beating. Oh my God. Wheeler: It was quite an adjustment after the war, getting established. We’ve kind of skipped over your coming back. You came back to San Marcos. And tell us a little bit more about how your family was farming and had you married at this point? Alethea Nagata: No. Wheeler: You hadn’t met each other. Alethea Nagata: No. Not yet. Wheeler: Okay. So, you were living in San Marcos. You were living in Oceanside? George Nagata: San Luis Rey, at that time. Wheeler: San Luis Rey. Alethea Nagata: But, he, he, uh, I’m getting confused now a little bit. But, um, there was so much that went on. We came back and, um, my grandfathers settled in San Marcos, and we―and our family were in San Luis Rey. So, um, my―I guess, my father―well, all I remember was coming back from camp and my father made me drive the Caterpillar and he was―because we didn’t have any help. And so, he―he got on the back and―and he wanted me to drive the Caterpillar. Well, I had never driven it before. But I―that stands out in my mind as an incident that I do remember, that when we first came back, that’s what he made me do! (laughs, as does Wheeler) Wheeler: And you had just graduated from high school at that point. Alethea Nagata: I had already finished in camp. Wheeler: So that was pretty, uh, different for women at any― Alethea Nagata: Well, my sisters― Wheeler: ―any (unclear) Alethea Nagata: There were three of us girls. The first three. And my sister drove trucks and, I mean, she did all kinds of things. Both of my sisters. And so, it wasn’t so outrageous. And my dad was extremely kind to women. Wheeler: Mmm. Alethea Nagata: For someone from Japan, he took care of the women. So, I do to this day remember that for being a Japanese man, that he―he respected women. So, that’s always been very nice. But, um, uh, the farm, well, he―we grew―he grew asparagus. And he still did grow chili peppers at that time. Wheeler: At that time, had they done the diversity that they do now? Or was that just beginning? Alethea Nagata: Then―then―then, the diversity began, um, when my younger brother kind of started taking over. Oh, my father was still involved with it. They grew romaine, and tomatoes, and things like that. So― Wheeler: As we look at the farmers now― Alethea Nagata: Strawberries, also. Wheeler: ―and the some fields will be waiting, like, some year we’ll plant, but others have those plants about 6 inches high. Others they’ll be almost grown. You can see how the changes. How did that all come about, just by trial and error? Or by deliberate planning? Alethea Nagata: Well, there’s, um―my father and my brother grew cauliflower, um, and that is not a money-making crop. But, they, they grew asp―the cauliflower because it kept the workers so that you had to maintain the workers, you know. That was a part of the problem, also, is to have enough help. Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Alethea Nagata: And so the reason for even planting it was, um, to keep the help, you know. That was quite a, um, problem in keeping―(turns her head toward Mr. Nagata) you know about keeping the workers. So― George Nagata: Getting back to her uncle, Fred. He took a liking to me and he wanted me to go around with him into like the Farm Bureau, and this labor, uh, the Bracero program, where we had association. And I spoke with one of the Board of Directors, and he took me all the places and introduced me to all the things that, and he was a, a, a U.C. Davis graduate. So, we would go into U.C. Davis and, and try to get, uh, the university to experiment, develop a new variety of berries for, suitable for southern California. And they said that uh there was no budget for it. So, we went to the Legislature and had one of our representatives, um, pass a budget so they could experiment. So, they, the university assigned a man and sent him down here where and we were trying new strawberries, grapes, and after a while it was successful that it helped us all survive the strawberry industry in, in southern California, from Oxnard to San Diego. We got a new variety and kept improving and improving our, our strawberries. And everybody was able to stay in business. Uncle Fred was one of the instigators in that. And he says one day to me “Hey, I got a blind date set up for you.” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) We’re going to the Palladium.” (Alethea laughs) So, I wondered who it was? And it was her! (all three of them laugh) And so that’s how we got together. Alethea Nagata: Well, my uncle Fred was a, um, he was drafted into the Army when we were in camp. He was, yeah― Wheeler: He didn’t (unclear) Alethea Nagata: He was in the artillery, yeah. And he had, he saw action in Europe, and― (clears her throat) Wheeler: Hhmmm. This was quite a― Alethea Nagata: Yes. Wheeler: ―with your fam―some of your family back in Japan. Some of you in camp. And then he’s fighting in the― Alethea Nagata: The people in Japan were, were, couple of children that were left in Japan were from my grandfather. And, and, um, (clears throat) they were kind of farmed out. Because of the law, they were not able to come. He was not able to bring them later because one child was just born when my grandmother came to this country. She couldn’t handle a two-year-old boy and you know, on the, on the ship. So, they left two daughters in Japan, my grandfather did. And he had to, to farm them out and among relatives and, and the, the baby he had to farm out to a, a woman who would kind of take over childcare. And so, these poor women that were left in Japan, was pretty terrible, because of the law. And they were not able to come to the U.S. (clears throat). So that’s a little background but― Wheeler: Yes. Those are things that are barriers and we have to really think about― Alethea Nagata: Well, see, yeah. Because it was the Asians that were, were in that kind of predicament, whereas it did not affect the Europeans. Wheeler: Yes. So, after, um, about, say up until 1960, did things start to turn around then, for the growth and the diversity? When did that really take hold? George Nagata: Uh, it took hold about ten years after they granted a experiment in southern California. First it was, uh, U.S.D.A. property and it’s on the beach, where it was a little too small to do an experiment so the, uh, university had a property there in, uh, in, uh, Orange County that, uh, belonged to the university so they moved the experimental plot to, uh, Irvine Ranch. And Irvine Ranch gave them, I think, about twenty or thirty acres to the university and they started experimenting there. And they developed various varieties and that’s when we were able to adapt a new variety of strawberries here, and it was very successful. Wheeler: That is very interesting because we’re known for good strawberries that we have. George Nagata: That’s true. Wheeler: Right now, do you grow a lot, different kinds of crops? George Nagata: Well, after we retired, in about 1980, we, uh, figured to stop growing, uh, any kind of crop because it is a gamble and we didn’t want to, because they’re growing a lot of tomatoes in Mexico and strawberries in Mexico. And it’s hard to compete with produce from foreign countries. And they flooded the market, and they just grow thousands and thousands of acres of tomatoes and strawberries, that you can’t compete with them. And so, we decided we’re going to quit the farming business. We’ll quit. And I asked Neal and one of my nephews to, if they were interested, and they said they would take it over. So, I, we gave it to them. And we were operating okay, but the nephew got into gambling and he, uh, the company money― Wheeler: But the, um, back to the, the way that agriculture has changed, and how you survived from one kind of crops to another. What kind of things have you done that have been innovative in making that happen? Like were you, you were probably growing some asparagus or some other things besides the cauliflower. George Nagata: Well, we started to grow the crops, like blueberries. Wheeler: Okay. George Nagata: We put in about― Alethea Nagata: Cherimoya. George Nagata: ten acres of blueberries, and also the cherimoya, which is a fruit. I don’t know if you know what cherimoya is. It’s, um, (turns to his wife) what happened to the one I gave you? Alethea Nagata: I’ll, I’ll show it to her. Wheeler: There’s a lot of people that come here from all over the world, and they’d probably like to know that. George Nagata: And so, it hasn’t been very successful and the cherimoya takes a lot of labor, because you have to hand-pollinate those. But, uh, (looks to the left, off camera, and Mrs. Nagata reaches to the left to grab a cherimoya) Wheeler: Could you show that so―there we go. (Alethea places the cherimoya on the table in front of Wheeler) Tell us about this little piece of fruit. George Nagata: This is a small one! They get about this big! (gestures a wider diameter than the actual fruit) Wheeler: Oh really! George Nagata: Mm-hmm. (Alethea pushes the fruit across the table to Wheeler, and then pulls it back to center it on the table between them) Wheeler: Okay, there we go. You see that now? Um, well, there’s a lot of us that don’t know what that is, or how do you use it? And how do you grow it? George Nagata: It ripens and there’s a lot of seeds inside. You have to sort the seed out. Alethea Nagata: And people who love it, love it. They just― Wheeler: Is it a fruit? Alethea Nagata: It’s a fruit. George Nagata: I don’t― Wheeler: So― George Nagata: I don’t care for it (laughs) Alethea Nagata: It’s sort of like a slightly banana flavor, but the people who grow up with it― Wheeler: Is it easy to grow in this climate, in this soil? George Nagata: It’s easy to grow, but hard to set. It doesn’t form a fruit. You have to hand-pollinate them. Wheeler: Oh! Very interesting! George Nagata: The flower is like a trumpet (holds his hand up to indicate an open trumpet-shaped flower) so it can’t get the pollen inside, see. Wheeler: What do you eat it with? George Nagata: Yeah. Alethea Nagata: Well, um― Wheeler: Just by itself? Alethea Nagata: By itself, yeah. Wheeler: Like an apple? Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh. Wheeler: Very interesting. Alethea Nagata: Well, you have to remove the seeds, you know. But, yeah. Wheeler: So, this is very interesting in that we contribute so much to the agricultural industry in San Diego. It’s the fourth largest industry. So, you’ve contributed to this in so many ways. I’m fascinated by how you’ve had your ups and downs, the fact that there were times when the Japanese could not buy land here. There were times when they could, and how all these things change, and the incarceration was atrocious. But, you’ve survived it, and what do you see as the future of farming here? Is that a, too big a question? Alethea Nagata: It is a big, large question, because of the laws. How California is. George Nagata: They don’t want us to farm. Most of the politicians, they want to get rid of the farms. And that’s why they cut off the water for a lot of― Wheeler: That’s another thing that you’ve had to deal with, is the water situation. George Nagata: That’s right. Wheeler: And how is it so scarce now, and there’s, um, almost rationing. Well we’re restricted in how many times we can water our yards. So, so all of these things that impacted your livelihood, and we all want our children and our grandchildren to live happily ever after but that’s, it changes whether we like it or not. George Nagata: It changes. Alethea Nagata: I believe California was supplying United States with a lot of the, the vegetables and fruits, I believe. But I don’t know. California is really interesting. Wheeler: Yes, it is. The citrus fruits have been shipped all over the world. And yet, at the same time you’re talking about the strawberries and how that has been impacted, too. But, what other things have you, in your interesting lifespan, what other things have you―would you like to share with our community, our, with our future, what, what would you, what is your secret as they famously say? George Nagata: Well, I don’t think there’s very much future in the farming business because the foreign countries like Chile, and all those South American countries are growing and shipping all the stuff here, and Mexico. That’s a wide-open country there. And I farmed there for a couple of years and an associate with a Mexican partner. I grew, planted 500 acres of strawberries, down there. (Mrs. Nagata laughs) And, I told my partner that his job was to get the pickers, and, and make the cooler big enough so where we could handle 500 acres of strawberries. You have to pre-cool those strawberries or they won’t ship. And when you cool them down to 34 degrees, just before freezing, there is, the food gets firm, and you could ship it to the United States without damaging the fruit. Well, when it grows 500 acres, the facilities won’t handle but pay one-tenth of what they, uh, What I told him that. Well, he says “my brothers all have coolers.” I said “They’re not prepared for that. You gotta prepare for that. It’s got to be a cool, cool, 34 degrees. It has to have kind of a vacuum cooled deal, and you gotta set it up.” And he said “Don’t worry. I’ll get them to do it.” He doesn’t do it. So, we lost 500 acres of berries! Wheeler: There’s, yes. Those kinds of things are, um, it’s part of the change and how we have to look at things more global. George Nagata: That’s true. Wheeler: And sometimes we get really busy and forget that. But is there any other, um, things that you think that we could be doing to enhance the way that food is prepared or grown? George Nagata: Well, the only thing you could probably grow is specialty crops. Like tomatoes, they grow by the thousand acres. The farmer down there grows five thousand acres of tomatoes. And you can’t compete with people like that. Wheeler: No. So, what’s changing? George Nagata: So, uh, you gotta change the kind. But there’s very little crop that you could put in that, that you could sell to the mass market. Um, and, I don’t know what we can grow. We’ve been studying it for about ten years to see what is profitable. But, at first the blueberry was a very profitable business, but now everybody grows it, and they grow in Mexico, and they are earlier than we are, and they flood the market. And they also come from Chile, and they just flood the market. And that’s why they sell those blueberries so cheap. Wheeler: Right. The fact that we have labor and we have water sources that we are constantly looking at as to how, what we need and what we have to― George Nagata: Well, the trouble is, the workers don’t want to work on the farms, and they― Wheeler: The lack of interest in farming. Alethea Nagata: There’s the, there’s the politics. Some of it’s about the politics. Wheeler: Yes, unfortunately that’s everywhere. George Nagata: All these people they’re coming into the United States. None of them are working on the farms. They want other kinds of jobs. Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Well, there’s a lot of things that we’re trying to work out and I so appreciate your input and to, well, thank you more for the contributions you’ve made. It’s been phenomenal to hear your stories. Is there anything else you have to add, beca―? George Nagata: Right now, I can’t think. (they all laugh) Wheeler: Well, I cannot thank you enough. It’s been absolutely delightful. Thank you again. GLOSSARY: American Can (pg.10) Bracero program (pg.12) Camp Pendleton (pg.7) Caterpillar (pg.11) Cherimoya (pg.13-14) Credit Bureau (pg.9) Farm Bureau (pg.12) Freezers (pg.10) Grave, Mr. (pg.8) Heinz (pg.2) Irvine Ranch (pg.13) Kiso (pg.7) Kumamoto, Japan (pg.1) Poston, Arizona (pg.5,7-8) Rancho Santa Margarita (pg.7) Santa Fe Train Depot (pg.5) Smucker’s (pg.10) Tarbutton (pg.8) Tasuke, Wor (pg.2) Tohanga, California (pg.7) Yaskochi, Kane (pg.2) W. H. Ruth Company (pg.10) https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
 ; 
 ; This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. 
 ; 
 ; Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. 
 ; 
 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. 
 ; 
 ; The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. 
 ; 
 ; In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.xml NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Nagata, George and Alethea. Interview November 16, 2022
Description
An account of the resource
Oral History of 2nd generation (George and Alethea Nagata) who represent four generations of Japanese Americans contributing to the agricultural industry of North County San Diego, California. During their interview the Nagatas discuss their family history, their forced internments at Poston Relocation Center in Yuma, Arizona during World War II, their lives post-internment, and their working lives as agricultural laborers and family farmers. The Nagatas discuss their operations in detail and muse on the future of farming in the United States.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-33
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agricultural laborers -- California
Agricultural laborers -- Colorado
Family farms -- California
Japanese Americans
Japanese Americans -- Forced removal and internment, 1942-1945
Poston Relocation Center (Ariz.)
World War, 1939-1945 -- Concentration camps -- Arizona -- Yuma
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Alethea Nagata
George Nagata
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lucy Wheeler
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Colorado
Southern California
Yuma (Ariz.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Alethea and George Nagata
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/e5bf1f97a35282317729bf7098f39994.pdf
b4024d6a5dbc4418f2bcf07e8586c7fd
PDF Text
Text
ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Lucy Wheeler: Today is November 16th, 2022, on behalf of the North County Oral History
Initiative Project. We’re here at the Nagata Farm, in Oceanside bordering on Fallbrook and
Bonsall. My name is Lucy Wheeler, and let’s go inside and meet them! [Lucy is initially on a
balcony or deck, then moves inside to meet the Nagatas]
Lucy Wheeler: Good morning.
George and Alethea Nagata [both nod] Good morning.
Wheeler: It’s so nice to be here, and I’d like to introduce you to our audience. Um, on our left we
have Mr. George Nagata.
George Nagata: Yep. [nodding]
Wheeler: And Alethea Nagata, Nagata. [Mrs. Nagata nods] Um, they are second generation of
four generations—
George Nagata: [nodding] Yes, correct.
Wheeler: —and we would love to hear your story, about how your families came to America, to
the United States, and mostly just about how you’ve managed to live to your age. So let’s begin
by where you were born, and what year, and then just briefly an introduction about how your
ancestors came here. It’s your story, but predominantly setting the stage with your history. Do
you want to go first, George?
George Nagata: Alright. I was born in Gardena, California, in 1924, April 24th. Um, um, my
father came over in about 1900, from, uh, a city of Kumamoto, Japan, which is in the south,
southern Japan. And, uh, the family were, uh—they loaned money and, loan sharks I guess you’d
call ‘em. And, um, they were pretty well off, and they would, uh, uh, have the rice as a collateral
for the loaner to bring in. So, they would pile up a lot of rice and, and then they couldn’t pay,
they took the rice. But they didn’t know what to do with it. So, after a while they decided to start
a sake factory, and they progressed in it, and, and they were pretty well off. Uh, my father just
went to school, and, and in fact he graduated from university and he was well educated for, um,
people at that time. And so when he―he said that he used to get up in the morning and he had
nothing to do so he would go out hunting for birds and he would bring it home, and, and eat
those birds. But he got tired of it, and he wanted a, a more adventurous so he decided to come to
United States and at first he landed in, uh, uh, Seattle, then came to San Francisco, and he went
to night school there and he was a house boy for some old people. And, uh, uh, he didn’t—he
learned his English, so he went into various business because if he needed money he would just
send a letter to Japan. They would send him money to do whatever he wanted to do. So, he did
some farming of cotton in Arizona, and then in Texas. But he wasn’t successful. He said he went
to work for a railroad, and uh, and, uh, uh, in Arizona, and uh after a while he said he got tired of
that. So, he, uh, come down to Los Angeles and he was just moaning around and doing a little
farm work for people and I guess he did some joint venture with other people. But, he wasn’t
successful so he decided at age, about, uh, forty-eight, he thought “Oh, I’m getting old. I’d better
go find a bride!” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] So, he went to Japan and married my mother, and they
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
1
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
came over in about 1920. And their first child was born in, in 1921, but only lived for nine
months. She had diphtheria and she died. And so, next child was myself. In 1924, I was born,
and my father bought a, a farm from some friend who was, uh, uh,―made enough money to go
back to Japan. So, my father bought this farm, and they were working it, but they weren’t that
successful. So, um, they decided to move from Gardena to Torrance and I was about four years
old, and, and, and my mother would take the uncooked rice and they’d build a little pot, a
fireplace, and then they, they asked me to watch them so that a fire won’t go out and I, I kept
feeding the wood in there to keep the uh, rice cooked. By 12 o’clock the rice was ready, We
would have a lunch. And then my mother would go back to work. And, uh, from Torrance, uh,
we farmed there for about three years and my dad decided to go to Heinz, which is uh, uh, near
Bellflower, California. And we were, uh, farming there and he planted uh, uh, strawberries and
some melons and I was about six or seven years old. And dad would say that “I’m going to teach
you how to drive a horse.” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] So he made a little sled, and, and he wanted
me to pick the melon and put it in this box, and haul it back to the shed, so he could pack it. And
I did that for a while. But, you know, being so young that I, I wanted to play! I did not want to
work. [chuckles] Uh, he used to tell me “You gotta help me.” And, my brother Harry was born in
1925 [turns his head towards his wife] and that was in, um, Torrance, and—
Wheeler: Let’s, uh—
George Nagata: And uh, huh? [turns to look at his wife]
Wheeler: Oh, I was just going to say, let’s let her tell her part up to that point.
George Nagata: Okay.
Wheeler: And then we’ll connect how you met each other. So, tell us about your—
Alethea Nagata: I was born in Bonsall, California.
Wheeler: Very close!
Alethea Nagata: October 15th, 1926. And my parents had moved from, from Orange County to
Bonsall, to change a little bit of their f—their, you know—to a new land, sort of. And so that’s
where we, um, settled for a while. And then, uh, he moved to San Luis Rey where he started
farming again.
Wheeler: What were your parents’ name?
Alethea Nagata: Wor Tasuke and Kane Yaskochi
Wheeler: Okay.
Alethea Nagata: And [clears her throat] they were both married already in Japan in about 1919.
And they, they came to America separately. My father came about 1920 with his father, and my
mother came about a year—I believe, about a year or so later. And, uh, they settled in Orange
County.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
2
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: And your father was here in—what year did you say? 1920?
Alethea Nagata: About 1920.
Wheeler: But his father—
Alethea Nagata: Was here earlier.
Wheeler: Earlier.
Alethea Nagata: He arrived in the U.S. 1905, right after the San Francisco earthquake. And that’s
where their journey sort of began. And he―um, my grandfather did various jobs along the way,
and then―in 1905―and then he landed in Orange County, where there were, a few, I believe, a
few Japanese already there. And so, he started the, the growing peppers.
Wheeler: And became the Pepper King?
Alethea Nagata: Well, [smiles] that’s what they called him.
Wheeler: [laughs]
Alethea Nagata: Anyway, that was sort of the beginning of the peppers.
Wheeler: Very good. Well, how did you two meet?
George Nagata: Well, uh, that was after, after the World War II. Well, uh—
Wheeler: So, it’s a substantial difference then—
George Nagata: yea, [nods]
Wheeler: —in the time that you came and when you met.
Alethea Nagata: Yes! Well this was after the war, so—
Wheeler: Okay.
Alethea Nagata: So, there—
Wheeler: In the, in the interim, tell us where you went to school then, um. Were you in school in,
um?
George Nagata: Oh, I was a, a, in school in, in, Oceanside, before evacuation. The problem was
that, uh, when we moved to Oceanside in 1940, my father got sick, yeah. We were building a
house so we could move to Oceanside from Bellflower, California where he had farmed, and I
was about fifteen years old. And he was building his house and then he said “I got a backache,
and it’s really bad.” So, I took him to a doctor, and the doctor says “I can’t help you.” He said
“You gotta go to a specialist.” And, uh, we were, uh, uh, broke because we just moved and we
put all the money into building the house and, and preparing the land and so, uh, my dad went to
the doctor and they found out he had pleurisy and so they put him in the hospital and uh, uh, he
was in the hospital for three months! And, uh, we had to commute from Oceanside to the Los
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
3
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Angeles every day. So, my mother said “Let’s, uh, live with a friend in Los Angeles where it’s
closer to see dad.” So, we, uh, my mother and I went to live with this friend of our family and we
commuted to the hospital every night from there. From Downey to Los Angeles. And so, I was
living in Downey, so I had to still go to school, so I registered at Downey High and went to
school there a while. But, before we moved—when we moved to Oceanside, I started school in
Oceanside and went about a month, or a month and a half to Oceanside. Then I transferred back
to Downey and then once my dad got out of the hospital I went back to Oceanside and my dad
couldn’t work. So, my mother did all the work. And, uh, I went back to Oceanside but my
studies all messed up because of moving all the time, and, uh, so—
Wheeler: Were you farming at the time?
George Nagata: No, um, my mother was doing the farming. But we helped out as much as
possible. We were absolutely broke! When my dad got sick, it cost us a lot of money to take care
of him. So, we were—so, my mother had to go see friends to borrow money from them, because
we couldn’t get any money. We didn’t have any property, anything to— We had an old
automobile and an old truck, [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] so—
Wheeler: What kind of farming did you do, what—?
George Nagata: Uh, just had five acres of strawberries.
Wheeler: Oh! That’s exciting.
George Nagata: With strawberries, you plant the first year, and take the runner, and plant the
runner, so you don’t harvest till second year! So, when we were farming there the first year, we
planted a little bit of Italian squash, and we sold it to San Francisco, because the market was
better there, and that’s how we were able to feed ourselves, and also, we went to work for other
farmers. We did a bit of harvesting, but they, uh, wanted me to drive a horse with a cultivator—
Wheeler: [laughs]
George Nagata: —because my dad taught me how to do it, and they needed a person to drive the
horse. So, I was assigned to do that every day! I had to harness the horse and get the cultivator,
and cultivate the crop!
Wheeler: And now, how, how old were you then when the second world war started:
George Nagata: Well, I was sixteen.
Wheeler: And tell us a little bit about—since you had not met each other at that time—
George Nagata: No, no—
Alethea Nagata: Not yet.
George Nagata: No—
Wheeler: Tell me how you—
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
4
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
George Nagata: No, that was before the war. Now, uh, come May, I think about the 15th of May
of 1942, we were evacuated. We were ordered to go to the Santa Fe Train Depot, and load, get
on this train. And so, they said that you could only take two suitcases each. And so, we went and
bought a suit—suitcase for each of us. And, and we packed up our suitcase. We went to the train
depot and we boarded a train in the morning, and they had NPs on the train. They wouldn’t let us
open the window or anything. It’s all shaded. And we didn’t know where we were going. And
about three o’clock in the afternoon, uh, we went and the train stopped in Barstow, and they gave
us a sandwich so that, you know, then we continued to Poston, Arizona. And when we got to
Arizona, they put us on a bus and transported us to the concentration camp, and at first we had to
stuff the mattress with straw because there was nothing there. They had to make―we got there at
8:30, 9 o’clock at night and we had to make our own bed. They gave us a cot and for each of us
and so we went to sleep, and—
Wheeler: How long were you there? [clears her throat]
George Nagata: We were—Well, I was, I myself, was there only for a little over a year. And I, I
was a, a—my friend said―he was going to Chicago―“Don’t you wanna go to Chicago?” I said
“Yeah, I’ll call along, tag along with you, because I don’t know the country. I want to go.” So, I
went to Chicago myself, with this friend and I, I learned how to be a auto mechanic, because I
worked in the shop. There is a lot of people who were experienced mechanics and they taught me
how to do all this repair. So, we had a full garage and all these people would teach me. So I was
pretty confident that I could make a living. So, I went to Chicago and got a job as a mechanic.
And, and I worked there for about four or five months, and, uh, my dad said that they gotta leave
the camp, because they’re asking everybody to leave. So, my dad says “Meet me in Colorado.
I’m going to see if we could do a little farming there.” So, um, I gave my job up and I went to
Grand Junction, Colorado, and my father―the reason my father said that we could do some
farming was because his nephew was from Hawaii and Santa Fe, New Mexico in a concentration
camp, and his assets were frozen because he was an enemy Asian. But that money will be
released if you want it for farming, and he said you’ll loan us the money, whatever you want. So,
he said that he could come and live on the farm with us. So, my dad took him up on it, and we
borrowed the money from him, and we started a little farm and I went to work for some man that
owned a seed company. And he said “Why don’t you farm for me?” And he said “Go drive a
tractor.” Well, I never drove a tractor, but anyway he says “You know how to drive?” I says
“Yeah, I know how to drive.” So, I went there then he looked at me and he said “You don’t
know how to drive.”
Wheeler: [laughs] How long were you in Colorado?
George Nagata: I was in Colorado ‘til 1944. From say ’43 to ’44, was it ’45 that I came to
California? [turns to his wife]
Alethea Nagata: [starts to laugh, as does Linda] I think so. I’m not sure what happened with you.
George Nagata: We were farming and this man who owned this seed company was a cook. We
never, I never got paid for working for him or then he said that if could grow some onion seed,
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
5
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
that’s what the land leases to England, and he said “I’ll pay you for growing that thing.” And
when it come to the end, we harvested it and gave him the seed, and I never seen a dime of it.
Wheeler: Oh my! [Mrs. Nagata chuckles]
George Nagata: And I asked the farmer that was next door who was also a evacuee that come out
of a concentration camp to do a little farming. There was about five or six together and they were
farming and, uh, they grew the onion seed for him. There was four or five other farmers. They
said “Oh, that’s a good deal.” They all grew onion seed. And the company in England sent a
check directly to those farmers. And the guy in the seed company, he really got mad and he said
“They were supposed to pay me. And they said that if I sent it direct, that I was supposed to get a
commission.” And my friend says “Okay, I’ll pay you commission, whatever you want.” He says
“No, that won’t do.” He says “I want the check and that’s the only way I’ll accept it.” So
everybody took the check and signed it and gave it to him, and they didn’t see a dime! [shrugs
his shoulders incredulously and laughs]
Wheeler: Oh. Wow!
George Nagata: They said “We were stupid, because there’s no recourse because we signed
[gestures with both hands to indicate signing a document] off the check.” [raises hands to
indicate giving something up] So, uh, and this guy had a big farm in, uh, in Gilroy, California.
And all my friend says is “Hey, forget it.” He says “You’re not going to get paid,” and sure
enough―
Wheeler: So, you left and came back to California, then?
George Nagata: So, uh, after the war, we were allowed to come back to California, so I came to
California to see how we could get back and where we could go. And, a friend of ours, uh, had a
friend in Vista and he was a doctor and he―they own an avocado grove, and there was a house
on it with a little shack there that was a chicken coop converted into a room. So, when we moved
to California, he said “Stay in this chicken coop for a while.” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] So, what
we did―we just―I loaded the truck up and a little pickup and we brought all of our stuff over.
And we lived in the chicken coop and we were looking for land where we could farm a lease. We
don’t have enough money to buy any property, so we, uh, uh, found, uh, uh, thirty acres of land
that he wanted to sell. But, he said “I tell you what I’ll do. I’ll lease, lease it to you, uh, and, uh,
you have to buy the property after one year.” So, we decided we’d better go ahead and get that
land. So, we went there. There’s no house or anything. So, we put up a tent and lived in the tent
and the houses were hard to get because right after the war there was nothing. There was a prehab house that was on sale. It’s not made out of, uh, wood. It’s, it’s, uh, the wood is hemlock, but
it’s more of a composition material and we bought that and put it together and we lived in this
house. And then, uh,―
Wheeler: This was in 1945?
George Nagata: [nods] 1945.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
6
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: Okay. Let’s stop and, and have Aletheatell us about what―
Alethea Nagata: Well, so this is, this is before the camp.
Wheeler: Right.
Alethea Nagata: And my father was―had a farm in Rancho Santa Margarita. He rented land.
That was before it was turned into Camp Pendleton. And, [clears her throat] and he was raising
strawberries there. And that’s when the, um, when the war broke out and the FBI picked him up
there, um, in Rancho Santa Margarita. Well, he was living in San Luis Rey, but he was going
back and forth to Santa Margarita. He rented the property from Rancho Santa Margarita, from a
gentleman named Whitman. [clears throat] And, uh, uh, [clears throat] and then, um, he
was―the FBI came to this ranch Santa Margarita and picked him up. And I was in San Marcos,
living with my grandparents. And that’s where they picked up my grandfather, the same day.
Wheeler: Was this Kiso?
Alethea Nagata: Yes, Kiso. And they took my father and Kiso to the San Diego jail, and they
stayed overnight there. And then [clears throat], and then they transferred them to a, I believe
it’s a Tohanga, California, in Los Angeles. And so, we as a family were able to go and see them.
And that’s where our journey, uh, begins with our family getting ready to go to camp. ‘Cuz I was
going to Escondido High School, and then, uh, because the war had broken out, we, uh, we had
to, uh, go to get ready to go to camp. And my uncle was trying to decide whether to move our
whole family to Colorado because, uh, as long as you’re not on the west coast, you could, you
could, uh, you know, farm, uh, in Colorado, or probably in the Midwest. But, my father, uh, said
not to go, but to go to camp. So that’s what we did. We all got to, got ready to go to camp.
Wheeler: And where was the―
Alethea Nagata: And we ended up in Poston.
Wheeler: Oh.
Alethea Nagata: Um, my experience was not, uh, as, as harsh as his [points to Mr. Nagata],
because, um, other family members had gone a little earlier and did the beds and things. So, um,
I didn’t―I―my grandmother wasn’t in very good condition. So, we probably went a couple of
days later. And so, uh, the cots and things, the ones that went first, you know, got theirs, or got it
ready for us. So, we―we ended up in Camp One in Poston, Arizona and I believe you ended up
in Poston [turning her head to look at Mr. Nagata], but in a different, uh―
Wheeler: Different section?
Alethea Nagata: Block. They were broken up into blocks.
Wheeler: So, you had quite an experience before you’d even gotten married and established
your―
Alethea Nagata: Oh, yes! [laughing]
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
7
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: ―careers in farming. Um, tell us about when you were allowed to come back. What
changed your lives after that, besides getting married and meeting each other?
Alethea Nagata: Well, my father and grandfather were sent to, uh, to Santa Fe, New Mexico and
Lordsburg, New Mexico. They were in different facilities from us. They were, uh―my
grandfather was released earlier than my father, was sent to the Poston camp where we were.
And then my father was released, uh, I believe about 1944, and, um, and he came back to Poston.
But, uh, in the meantime, we were living separately.
Wheeler: Yes. Um, when you came back then, where did―when you came back, where did
you―? You probably came back to Oceanside?
George Nagata: [nods] We came back to Oceanside.
Wheeler: And who―
Alethea Nagata: My, my father and uh, uncle, and uh, my grandfather’s place was in San
Marcos.
Wheeler: Okay.
Alethea Nagata: And my father had a place in San Luis Rey. And so, uh, his―his farm―we left
the farm in, um―my grandfather’s farm was left in charge of a vice principal of Escondido High
School. And he, he took over and―and we hired a, a family man to come in and oversee the
place. And, uh, they lived in my grandfather’s house. There was a main house and then there was
a kitchen area. And so, the people who, uh, the vice principal hired was a―well their name was
Tarbutton. [laughs] I remember the name. And um―uh, the kitchen area was a―was a fairly
large, and so the family was able to live there. And the main house, uh, was left, just left. And,
uh, so when we came back from camp, that’s where we fir―we landed in San Marcos where my
grandfather’s place. And my father had returned from camp just, just a―[shakes her head and
tries to speak] when he was able, they were allowed to come back. So, he came back by himself
with, I believe, my uncle’s wife and, and they planted, um, zucchini, I believe, some kind of a
early crop. So, then he, then he, then he came back to Poston and picked us up. So, then we all
came back later, just a little bit later. 1945.
Wheeler: Wow. So, you were just―
Alethea Nagata: But we do have, we had a place to―at least we had a home.
Wheeler: Yes.
Alethea Nagata: Yeah. And, uh―
Wheeler: Exactly.
Alethea Nagata: Mr. Grave, the vice principal, uh, took care of everything for us. So that was
very nice.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
8
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: So, when did you graduate from high school, then?
Alethea Nagata: I graduated in camp.
Wheeler: Oh, did you?
Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh.
George Nagata: Well, I didn’t get to go to school.
Wheeler: Okay, that―and that was probably not uncommon.
George Nagata: Yeah.
Wheeler: So, then actually―
Alethea Nagata: And it wasn’t accepted either, or―
George Nagata: So, when I was in Chicago, I wanted to go to night school. And I applied there,
and they said that, that concentration camp I was in was not an acclaimed school, so you’re
going to have to start over again. So, I says “Oh, I can’t start over again.” [both he and Wheeler
laugh] So, uh, I didn’t get any education at all.
Wheeler: No, but sometimes it’s not just all education in the school. So, what happened then
after ’45 that you came back and started again?
George Nagata: Uh, it was very tough [shaking his head]. We didn’t have any equipment, and so,
so [cell phone starts to ring]. Excuse me. [reaches into pocket for cell phone] I don’t know who
is calling. [looks at screen, and shakes his head] Scam!
[Wheeler and Alethea Nagata laugh]
George Nagata: So, when we got back to California, um, I went to the bank to borrow money
and they laughed at me and said “You know, to tell you the truth, I’m not loaning you my money.
He says “The bank has a depositor. They all deposit the money, and I’m responsible for it. So, I
gotta have a collateral, whatever you own. But, I don’t own a thing, ‘cuz I can’t loan you any
money.” So, in order for us to farm, we had to have a little bit of backing and so, uh, the L.A.
produce market was loaning money to the growers, to advance the money, and they get all the
produce. So, we borrowed the money from them, and started growing and sometimes it pays, and
sometimes it doesn’t, because the market was, you know, some oversupply of tomatoes and
things. And I would go over there and I would borrow money from, uh, for uh, buy fertilizer on
credit. And they would just loan me the money, and one company there, I owed about three
thousand dollars, and they wanted to get paid. I said “I don’t have any money right now. So, can
you wait?” But what happened was that I planted, uh, twenty acres of strawberries and it was
ready to harvest when I got hailed out. Because all the hail was just deforming the whole plant.
And never produced a single berry! And so, I had all this money tied up into strawberries. And I
can’t harvest anything. And the supply companies, this was, uh, uh, the fertilizer and insecticide I
bought, I couldn’t pay for it. So, they wanted to sue me. And they reported it to the Credit
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
9
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Bureau that I haven’t paid for one year and they’re going to, uh, to file a lawsuit against me. And
so, uh, when they had filed, I went back to the produce house, and I begged them to loan me
some more money. I gotta pay that guy, or he’s going to sue me. And so, uh, I was able to
borrow enough money to pay the, that fertilizer company off. And there was more, other
companies, the seed companies. And I owed them money. They said they would hold off. And so
next year I figured well, what I’m going to do is double the acreage of strawberries, and try to
get the money back. And I planted forty acres of strawberries and we started harvesting in April
and there was a beautiful crop! My God! Everybody was envious. I was harvesting 4,000 boxes a
day. And all of a sudden it started to rain. [Wheeler and Alethea Nagata chuckle] And for two
weeks straight! And it just destroyed the whole berries. And so, uh, his uncle [he points to his
wife] was familiar with some freezer company in Fallbrook there and they talked him into
starting a strawberry freezer! And, uh, he come to me and said “Hey, why don’t you invest in
this. All the growers will put up money, and we’ll go ahead and process the strawberries.” And
we were, before that we were sending our frozen berries to Smucker’s. Well, they paid pretty
good. Well, I said “Fred, I think we shouldn’t go into this business. It’s a risky business.” He
says “No, it’s a sure thing.” But, his company went bankrupt so he got a job in Oxnard or―
Alethea Nagata: Ventura.
George Nagata: Ventura, for his chili company. And he let us go and left his freezer go. But we
were members of the Freezers so we had to ship it to him. So, I―the second crop, the rain had
stopped, so we sent all of our berries to this freezer, and, and, uh, to buy the can and buy the
sugar, well, somebody has to guarantee the payment on it. See? And so, about four or five of us
volunteered to go ahead and sign the agreement that we’re responsible. Well, at the end of the
season, they can’t pay for the cans, they can’t pay for the sugar. And so, they froze my bank
account! Because I was one of the guaranteers. And hell, I couldn’t―I had workers, and I
couldn’t―and my brother said “Hey, they froze the account. We can’t pay the, the help. We’ve
got to pay the help.” So, “Oh, my god.” We went back to the produce house and borrowed some
more money, and, and we were able to pay American Can and sugar. All of us growers put up
the money to pay this off. And then the company went bankrupt. The strawberry in a frozen can,
we―W.H. Ruth Company is a marketing ____________, and they put it in a cold storage. And
they couldn’t sell it, so they had it in cold storage so long that the storage fee ate up all of it.
[chuckles]
Wheeler: Right.
George Nagata: And so, you know, we were out of―
Wheeler: And there’s the―
George Nagata: We took a beating. Oh my God.
Wheeler: It was quite an adjustment after the war, getting established. We’ve kind of skipped
over your coming back. You came back to San Marcos. And tell us a little bit more about how
your family was farming and had you married at this point?
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
10
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: No.
Wheeler: You hadn’t met each other.
Alethea Nagata: No. Not yet.
Wheeler: Okay. So, you were living in San Marcos. You were living in Oceanside?
George Nagata: San Luis Rey, at that time.
Wheeler: San Luis Rey.
Alethea Nagata: But, he, he, uh, I’m getting confused now a little bit. But, um, there was so
much that went on. We came back and, um, my grandfathers settled in San Marcos, and we―and
our family were in San Luis Rey. So, um, my―I guess, my father―well, all I remember was
coming back from camp and my father made me drive the Caterpillar and he was―because we
didn’t have any help. And so, he―he got on the back and―and he wanted me to drive the
Caterpillar. Well, I had never driven it before. But I―that stands out in my mind as an incident
that I do remember, that when we first came back, that’s what he made me do! [laughs, as does
Wheeler]
Wheeler: And you had just graduated from high school at that point.
Alethea Nagata: I had already finished in camp.
Wheeler: So that was pretty, uh, different for women at any―
Alethea Nagata: Well, my sisters―
Wheeler: ―any _________
Alethea Nagata: There were three of us girls. The first three. And my sister drove trucks and, I
mean, she did all kinds of things. Both of my sisters. And so, it wasn’t so outrageous. And my
dad was extremely kind to women.
Wheeler: Mmm.
Alethea Nagata: For someone from Japan, he took care of the women. So, I do to this day
remember that for being a Japanese man, that he―he respected women. So, that’s always been
very nice. But, um, uh, the farm, well, he―we grew―he grew asparagus. And he still did grow
chili peppers at that time.
Wheeler: At that time, had they done the diversity that they do now? Or was that just beginning?
Alethea Nagata: Then―then―then, the diversity began, um, when my younger brother kind of
started taking over. Oh, my father was still involved with it. They grew romaine, and tomatoes,
and things like that. So―
Wheeler: As we look at the farmers now,―
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
11
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: Strawberries, also.
Wheeler: ―and the some fields will be waiting, like, some year we’ll plant, but others have those
plants about 6 inches high. Others they’ll be almost grown. You can see how the changes. How
did that all come about, just by trial and error? Or by deliberate planning?
Alethea Nagata: Well, there’s, um―my father and my brother grew cauliflower, um, and that is
not a money-making crop. But, they, they grew asp―the cauliflower because it kept the workers
so that you had to maintain the workers, you know. That was a part of the problem, also, is to
have enough help.
Wheeler: Mm-hmm.
Alethea Nagata: And so the reason for even planting it was, um, to keep the help, you know.
That was quite a, um, problem in keeping―[turns her head toward Mr. Nagata] you know about
keeping the workers. So―
George Nagata: Getting back to her uncle, Fred. He took a liking to me and he wanted me to go
around with him into like the Farm Bureau, and this labor, uh, the Bracero program, where we
had association. And I spoke with one of the Board of Directors, and he took me all the places
and introduced me to all the things that, and he was a, a, a U.C. Davis graduate. So, we would go
into U.C. Davis and, and try to get, uh, the university to experiment, develop a new variety of
berries for, suitable for southern California. And they said that uh there was no budget for it. So,
we went to the Legislature and had one of our representatives, um, pass a budget so they could
experiment. So, they, the university assigned a man and sent him down here where and we were
trying new strawberries, grapes, and after a while it was successful that it helped us all survive
the strawberry industry in, in southern California, from Oxnard to San Diego. We got a new
variety and kept improving and improving our, our strawberries. And everybody was able to stay
in business. Uncle Fred was one of the instigators in that. And he says one day to me “Hey, I got
a blind date set up for you.” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] We’re going to the Palladium.”
[Alethealaughs] So, I wondered who it was? And it was her! [all three of them laugh] And so
that’s how we got together.
Alethea Nagata: Well, my uncle Fred was a, um, he was drafted into the Army when we were in
camp. He was, yeah,―
Wheeler: He didn’t ______________
Alethea Nagata: He was in the artillery, yeah. And he had, he saw action in Europe, and― [clears
her throat]
Wheeler: Hhmmm. This was quite a―
Alethea Nagata: Yes.
Wheeler: ―with your fam―some of your family back in Japan. Some of you in camp. And then
he’s fighting in the―
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
12
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: The people in Japan were, were, couple of children that were left in Japan were
from my grandfather. And, and, um, [clears throat] they were kind of farmed out. Because of the
law, they were not able to come. He was not able to bring them later because one child was just
born when my grandmother came to this country. She couldn’t handle a two-year-old boy and
you know, on the, on the ship. So, they left two daughters in Japan, my grandfather did. And he
had to, to farm them out and among relatives and, and the, the baby he had to farm out to a, a
woman who would kind of take over childcare. And so, these poor women that were left in
Japan, was pretty terrible, because of the law. And they were not able to come to the U.S. [clears
throat]. So that’s a little background but―
Wheeler: Yes. Those are things that are barriers and we have to really think about―
Alethea Nagata: Well, see, yeah. Because it was the Asians that were, were in that kind of
predicament, whereas it did not affect the Europeans.
Wheeler: Yes. So, after, um, about, say up until 1960, did things start to turn around then, for the
growth and the diversity? When did that really take hold?
George Nagata: Uh, it took hold about ten years after they granted a experiment in southern
California. First it was, uh, U.S.D.A. property and it’s on the beach, where it was a little too
small to do an experiment so the, uh, university had a property there in, uh, in, uh, Orange
County that, uh, belonged to the university so they moved the experimental plot to, uh, Irvine
Ranch. And Irvine Ranch gave them, I think, about twenty or thirty acres to the university and
they started experimenting there. And they developed various varieties and that’s when we were
able to adapt a new variety of strawberries here, and it was very successful.
Wheeler: That is very interesting because we’re known for good strawberries that we have.
George Nagata: That’s true.
Wheeler: Right now, do you grow a lot, different kinds of crops?
George Nagata: Well, after we retired, in about 1980, we, uh, figured to stop growing, uh, any
kind of crop because it is a gamble and we didn’t want to, because they’re growing a lot of
tomatoes in Mexico and strawberries in Mexico. And it’s hard to compete with produce from
foreign countries. And they flooded the market, and they just grow thousands and thousands of
acres of tomatoes and strawberries, that you can’t compete with them. And so, we decided we’re
going to quit the farming business. We’ll quit. And I asked Neal and one of my nephews to, if
they were interested, and they said they would take it over. So, I, we gave it to them. And we
were operating okay, but the nephew got into gambling and he, uh, the company money―
Wheeler: But the, um, back to the, the way that agriculture has changed, and how you survived
from one kind of crops to another. What kind of things have you done that have been innovative
in making that happen? Like were you, you were probably growing some asparagus or some
other things besides the cauliflower.
George Nagata: Well, we started to grow the crops, like blueberries.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
13
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: Okay.
George Nagata: We put in about―
Alethea Nagata: Cherimoya.
George Nagata: ten acres of blueberries, and also the cherimoya, which is a fruit. I don’t know if
you know what cherimoya is. It’s, um, [turns to his wife] what happened to the one I gave you?
Alethea Nagata: I’ll, I’ll show it to her.
Wheeler: There’s a lot of people that come here from all over the world, and they’d probably like
to know that.
George Nagata: And so, it hasn’t been very successful and the cherimoya takes a lot of labor,
because you have to hand-pollinate those. But, uh, [looks to the left, off camera, and Mrs. Nagata
reaches to the left to grab a cherimoya]
Wheeler: Could you show that so―there we go. [Aletheaplaces the cherimoya on the table in
front of Wheeler] Tell us about this little piece of fruit.
George Nagata: This is a small one! They get about this big! [gestures a wider diameter than the
actual fruit]
Wheeler: Oh really!
George Nagata: Mm-hmm.
[Aletheapushes the fruit across the table to Wheeler, and then pulls it back to center it on the
table between them]
Wheeler: Okay, there we go. You see that now? Um, well, there’s a lot of us that don’t know
what that is, or how do you use it? And how do you grow it?
George Nagata: It ripens and there’s a lot of seeds inside. You have to sort the seed out.
Alethea Nagata: And people who love it, love it. They just―
Wheeler: Is it a fruit?
Alethea Nagata: It’s a fruit.
George Nagata: I don’t―
Wheeler: So―
George Nagata: I don’t care for it [laughs]
Alethea Nagata: It’s sort of like a slightly banana flavor, but the people who grow up with it―
Wheeler: Is it easy to grow in this climate, in this soil?
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
14
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
George Nagata: It’s easy to grow, but hard to set. It doesn’t form a fruit. You have to handpollinate them.
Wheeler: Oh! Very interesting!
George Nagata: The flower is like a trumpet [holds his hand up to indicate an open trumpetshaped flower] so it can’t get the pollen inside, see.
Wheeler: What do you eat it with?
George Nagata: Yeah.
Alethea Nagata: Well, um―
Wheeler: Just by itself?
Alethea Nagata: By itself, yeah.
Wheeler: Like an apple?
Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh.
Wheeler: Very interesting.
Alethea Nagata: Well, you have to remove the seeds, you know. But, yeah.
Wheeler: So, this is very interesting in that we contribute so much to the agricultural industry in
San Diego. It’s the fourth largest industry. So, you’ve contributed to this in so many ways. I’m
fascinated by how you’ve had your ups and downs, the fact that there were times when the
Japanese could not buy land here. There were times when they could, and how all these things
change, and the incarceration was atrocious. But, you’ve survived it, and what do you see as the
future of farming here? Is that a, too big a question?
Alethea Nagata: It is a big, large question, because of the laws. How California is.
George Nagata: They don’t want us to farm. Most of the politicians, they want to get rid of the
farms. And that’s why they cut off the water for a lot of―
Wheeler: That’s another thing that you’ve had to deal with, is the water situation.
George Nagata: That’s right.
Wheeler: And how is it so scarce now, and there’s, um, almost rationing. Well we’re restricted in
how many times we can water our yards. So, so all of these things that impacted your livelihood,
and we all want our children and our grandchildren to live happily ever after but that’s, it
changes whether we like it or not.
George Nagata: It changes.
Alethea Nagata: I believe California was supplying United States with a lot of the, the vegetables
and fruits, I believe. But I don’t know. California is really interesting.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
15
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: Yes, it is. The citrus fruits have been shipped all over the world. And yet, at the same
time you’re talking about the strawberries and how that has been impacted, too. But, what other
things have you, in your interesting lifespan, what other things have you―would you like to
share with our community, our, with our future, what, what would you, what is your secret as
they famously say?
George Nagata: Well, I don’t think there’s very much future in the farming business because the
foreign countries like Chile, and all those South American countries are growing and shipping all
the stuff here, and Mexico. That’s a wide-open country there. And I farmed there for a couple of
years and an associate with a Mexican partner. I grew, planted 500 acres of strawberries, down
there. [Mrs. Nagata laughs] And, I told my partner that his job was to get the pickers, and, and
make the cooler big enough so where we could handle 500 acres of strawberries. You have to
pre-cool those strawberries or they won’t ship. And when you cool them down to 34 degrees, just
before freezing, there is, the food gets firm, and you could ship it to the United States without
damaging the fruit. Well, when it grows 500 acres, the facilities won’t handle but pay one-tenth
of what they, uh, What I told him that. Well, he says “my brothers all have coolers.” I said
“They’re not prepared for that. You gotta prepare for that. It’s got to be a cool, cool, 34 degrees.
It has to have kind of a vacuum cooled deal, and you gotta set it up.” And he said “Don’t worry.
I’ll get them to do it.” He doesn’t do it. So, we lost 500 acres of berries!
Wheeler: There’s, yes. Those kinds of things are, um, it’s part of the change and how we have to
look at things more global.
George Nagata: That’s true.
Wheeler: And sometimes we get really busy and forget that. But is there any other, um, things
that you think that we could be doing to enhance the way that food is prepared or grown?
George Nagata: Well, the only thing you could probably grow is specialty crops. Like tomatoes,
they grow by the thousand acres. The farmer down there grows five thousand acres of tomatoes.
And you can’t compete with people like that.
Wheeler: No. So, what’s changing?
George Nagata: So, uh, you gotta change the kind. But there’s very little crop that you could put
in that, that you could sell to the mass market. Um, and, I don’t know what we can grow. We’ve
been studying it for about ten years to see what is profitable. But, at first the blueberry was a
very profitable business, but now everybody grows it, and they grow in Mexico, and they are
earlier than we are, and they flood the market. And they also come from Chile, and they just
flood the market. And that’s why they sell those blueberries so cheap.
Wheeler: Right. The fact that we have labor and we have water sources that we are constantly
looking at as to how, what we need and what we have to―
George Nagata: Well, the trouble is, the workers don’t want to work on the farms, and they―
Wheeler: The lack of interest in farming.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
16
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: There’s the, there’s the politics. Some of it’s about the politics.
Wheeler: Yes, unfortunately that’s everywhere.
George Nagata: All these people they’re coming into the United States. None of them are
working on the farms. They want other kinds of jobs.
Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Well, there’s a lot of things that we’re trying to work out and I
so appreciate your input and to, well, thank you more for the contributions you’ve made. It’s
been phenomenal to hear your stories. Is there anything else you have to add, beca―?
George Nagata: Right now, I can’t think. [they all laugh]
Wheeler: Well, I cannot thank you enough. It’s been absolutely delightful. Thank you again.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
17
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
GLOSSARY:
American Can (pg.10)
Bracero program (pg.12)
Camp Pendleton (pg.7)
Caterpillar (pg.11)
Cherimoya (pg.13-14)
Credit Bureau (pg.9)
Farm Bureau (pg.12)
Freezers (pg.10)
Grave, Mr. (pg.8)
Heinz (pg.2)
Irvine Ranch (pg.13)
Kiso (pg.7)
Kumamoto, Japan (pg.1)
Poston, Arizona (pg.5,7-8)
Rancho Santa Margarita (pg.7)
Santa Fe Train Depot (pg.5)
Smucker’s (pg.10)
Tarbutton (pg.8)
Tasuke, Wor (pg.2)
Tohanga, California (pg.7)
Yaskochi, Kane (pg.2)
W. H. Ruth Company (pg.10)
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
18
2023-05
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Transcripts
Description
An account of the resource
Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Nagata, George and Alethea. Interview transcript, November 16, 2022.
Description
An account of the resource
Oral History of 2nd generation (George and Alethea Nagata) who represent four generations of Japanese Americans contributing to the agricultural industry of North County San Diego, California. During their interview the Nagatas discuss their family history, their forced internments at Poston Relocation Center in Yuma, Arizona during World War II, their lives post-internment, and their working lives as agricultural laborers and family farmers. The Nagatas discuss their operations in detail and muse on the future of farming in the United States.
This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Alethea Nagata
George Nagata
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lucy Wheeler
Melissa Martin
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-16
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agricultural laborers -- California
Agricultural laborers -- Colorado
Family farms -- California
Japanese Americans
Japanese Americans -- Forced removal and internment, 1942-1945
Poston Relocation Center (Ariz.)
World War, 1939-1945 -- Concentration camps -- Arizona -- Yuma
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Colorado
Southern California
Yuma (Ariz.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Alethea and George Nagata
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives@csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NagataGeorgeandAlethea_WheelerLucy_transcript.pdf
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience