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Oral Histories
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
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Judith Downie
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Rich Link
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LinkRich_BixbyMarianne_LortonGreg_DownieJudith_2017-07-09.xml
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5.4 Link, Rich, Mary Anne Bixby, and Greg Lorton. Interview July 9, 2017. SC027-054 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Home brewing -- California -- San Diego County Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (San Diego, Calif.) Rich Link Mary Anne Bixby Greg Lorton Judith Downie mp3 1.0:|11(14)|23(17)|36(13)|61(3)|79(10)|91(9)|104(2)|122(2)|136(14)|155(8)|170(5)|191(4)|218(5)|232(15)|246(15)|258(12)|273(2)|286(13)|303(18)|320(9)|334(13)|365(2)|386(5)|399(7)|416(3)|440(12)|464(2)|492(3)|511(16)|543(14)|575(11)|602(6)|626(11)|650(8)|674(4)|697(10)|721(7)|738(7)|762(13)|779(7)|798(6)|814(11)|824(10)|851(13)|877(11)|903(15)|925(6)|943(9)|971(12)|996(8)|1014(12)|1041(7)|1074(4)|1086(12)|1108(15)|1128(4)|1145(2)|1161(14)|1188(2)|1204(14)|1215(16)|1233(10)|1253(8)|1276(16)|1294(4)|1306(7)|1343(10)|1371(5)|1400(17)|1437(2)|1456(3)|1486(11)|1514(10)|1531(4) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/be8d74a35bca81c3d4728150a1225ccc.mp3 Other audio English Rich Link, Mary Anne Bixby and Greg Lorton are all early members of Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (QUAFF), a San Diego area homebrewing group.
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 ; In this interview, Link, Bixby, and Lorton discuss their introduction to craft beer, early home brewing experiences, QUAFF, various local breweries, mead, and womens’ participation in homebrewing. None have worked in the industry professionally, but all are certified beer judges and Lorton and Bixby also judge mead competitions.
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 ; Link wrote for the Celebrator Beer News magazine on the Southern California beer scene and his experiences visiting European breweries. He served several terms as QUAFF President. He is a certified beer judge.
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 ; Lorton served as QUAFF Newsletter editor and President. (He has provided a separate oral history.)
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 ; Bixby, with her late husband, Horace, switched from wine making to beer making. She belonged to the SDSS (San Diego Suds Sorority) which was a women-only subgroup of QUAFF.
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 ; Recording was made on the front exterior patio of Burning Beard Brewery in El Cajon ; there are periods of traffic noise which interfered with recording. Judith Downie: Okay. It's July 9th, 2017. This is Judith Downie interviewer, with Rich Link and Mary Anne Bixby and Greg Lorton, all QUAFF members, former officials of QUAFF, for oral history about their experiences with homebrewing and QUAFF (Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity home brewers club.). It should be able to pick up everybody. So basically, you know, you can kind of look at those questions I gave you. You can start talking maybe from, how did you start homebrewing? What got you interested? Rich Link: Well, I liked beer. And I saw something on TV one day and I saw something in a liquor store and it had a recipe and I said, “You can actually make beer at home?” And then I just looked in the yellow pages and there was Wine Art (supply shop) at the time over here on Fletcher Parkway (El Cajon). And, uh, that was in 1980 as I recall it. And at that time, homebrewers essentially made a five-gallon batch with a can of malt and four pounds of corn sugar, holding back a cup of corn sugar for bottling. For the bottling. And it was okay. It was as actually better than, you know, the mass-produced beers here in the United States ‘cause you know, we just couldn't take that stuff anymore. 90% of what I would drink would come from England and Germany. And at that time those were really good beers. Downie: And where were you finding these beers? Link: Yeah, in liquor stores. Yeah. Like that time, I think we had like Liquor Barn and some of the little hole-in-the-walls would have some good imports, but you know, it was like some beers were like $10, $12 a six pack and that was pretty expensive. You could make about two and a half cases of beer for about $10 or $15., seems like. Yeah. You know, I remember my first batch very, very clearly. It was a Pale Ale and it got all funked up with the yeast and it was cidery and it's like, “Okay, but you know, there's still something behind there that tastes really good.” It actually had good malt flavor and some hop flavor. Had no idea what the hops were because we just bought a bag that said ‘boiling hops’ and another one that said ‘finishing hops’. (Laughter.) Greg Lorton: But you made it. Link: Yeah. And it was cool. And I remember when the fermentation took off and you'd see the head on the beer. It's like, “Wow, that's pretty cool.” Smelled amazing. Bottling sure was a pain in the butt. Mary Anne Bixby: It always is. Lorton: Yeah. That's the one thing that pushes me towards Rich and uh, yeah. Mary Anne, what about you and Bix (Horace Bixby)? Bixby: Well, my first experience with home brewed beer was in college and it wasn't my own, it was friends' and the guys had made this beer that they had in mason jars. It was all cloudy. so, it was very yeasty. That part I remember very well and it was awful. It was awful. I think all I could say was give me a glass of wine. Lorton: Were you a, you were a chemistry major? Bixby: At one time. Lorton: Okay. At Purdue? Bixby: At Purdue. Lorton: Okay. Bixby: But, when I got married, we were winemakers and we started out with Wine Art in Chicago and they had these plans where you could make four wines and they had the classes and… Wine Art at that time was, like early seventies, not into beer that much. They had some cans of malt on the shelf, but nowhere near what we have available now with yeasts and the hops and so on. So Bix and I were making wine and he did try beer once but it started exploding in the basement. So I think we dumped most of it out. Link: I can’t tell you how many times I've heard that story about exploding beers. “Oh yeah. My uncle used to make beer. It used to explode.” Man, I never had one explode. Lorton: Yeah, I would wake up in the morning, go out in the garage and “Hmm. Smells like malt.” Bixby: Oh oh. Lorton: You look at the shelf and there's stuff dripping down, a wet spot with bottles there and there's one bottle that looks a little shorter than the others. And yeah, it blew apart and the top sank down. Yeah, I had. And it wasn't until, you know, I never had that with an extract brew. But once I started all grain brewing… Lorton: I never had a bad extract brew. I never had great extract brew. But once I went to all grain, I had some really good ones. Some pretty bad ones. (Laughter.) So now when was this all this wine making stuff? Bixby: Well, in the 70s and then we moved here to California in ‘75 and we started with the Wine Art again with making wine with their program. And then all this stuff started appearing on the shelves and Bix got interested in the beer, and before you know it, he was making beer and also we joined QUAFF. And that went that direction totally. I think we only made a few wines after that ; it was all beer. Downie: So, my understanding is that Audrey Eckblom and Owen were kind of the nucleus of the startup QUAFF. But I have not been able to reach Audrey and I know she's in Nevada and I tried to call her and I've tried writing her and don't get a response. So, what do you remember about beer in Wine Crafts? I know she took it over when Wine Crafts decided to close the location and she became Beer and Wine Crafts. But you know anything about her history as a brewer or anything like that? Lorton: Yeah, I moved down here in 1988 and I was living in Carlsbad, but that was the only place to go. And they opened a second shop in San Marcos. Probably in the, I'm thinking, uh, mid-nineties… Link: Mid-nineties, something like that, 1995. Lorton: Yeah, it was you know, I can show you exactly where it is in San Marcos. Link: I remember it. Lorton: But I mean that was a lot closer for me. Yeah. It was near Bent Avenue. Bixby: Well before Audrey and Owen had the place, there was, it was owned by somebody named Peter, I think it was Peter, his name. And he I guess got out of the business, I don't know, cause then it was Audrey and Owen and she was pretty, she was really very helpful. Link: She used to make wine. She was actually an employee there. And I remember the girl that was one of the owners, she had an accent. I don't remember her name, but it was shortly after that that they, Owen and Audrey bought the place from her. Now Owen was actually a beer judge. He, he knew beer. Bixby: I didn’t know that. Link: Yeah. Now, I don't know about any accreditation. It certainly wasn't with the AHA (American Homebrewers Association), but, he was labeled a beer judge. So yeah. I was a pretty good beer judge myself from college days. Downie: Well, accreditation would have been maybe a little bit later because it was Carter's era that, even home brewing was legal again. So, you really couldn't probably do accredited judging until, you know, you'd had a few years being legal again. Link: I don't remember when the AHA started, but I think the legalization was in ‘79. Yeah. And that's when the bill by Alan Cranston. Yeah. Downie: He signed it and Carter signed it in ‘78. Link: The US bill started by a Senator in Wisconsin. Downie: And then everything winds up having to come down to state level and then county level and city level. Lorton: But California was at the forefront of that kind of stuff. So. Yeah. Downie: And so Rich, you were telling Greg that you were the third QUAFF president who was president number one and number two? Link: So, president number one was Greg Schwaller and so now I wasn't there. So a lot of what I get is from Bob Whritner. Lorton: And I have an email from Greg Schwaller going the fact that your part of that where he was, you know, kind of you're remembering what the original, he was the one who came up with the name of QUAFF. Bixby: Interesting. Lorton: And he was citing a verse from Poe, Edgar Allen Poe as the source. And what they were doing is they were thinking, you know, all, most homebrew clubs have some clever pun-related acronym. And, you know, they felt that, well, QUAFF is, let's think of something that QUAFF sounds like a beer-drinking term. So, let's come up with some words that fit that. So that's where Quality Ale Fermentation Fraternity came from. Unfortunately, Bob gave me some stuff that documented all of that. It was like the originals. I gave it to Peter (Zien) and I'm not sure if it still exists. I meant to ask Peter when I last saw him, but you know, it actually has the legal yellow pad where it has the names of the… Downie: Is this is Peter Zien? Bixby: Oh, you need to ask him. Lorton: Yeah. I have to ask Peter. Yeah. Peter Zien, (several people talking) you know, I meant to ask him. Judith and I talked with Peter a couple of weeks ago and I forgot then I (inaudible). Peter's birthday party, I forgot. Link: That was a busy day. Lorton: Yeah. And I'm hoping they still have it. Downie: Yeah, I've still got the oral history to arrange with Peter and Vicky, so I'll put that on my list to ask as well. Lorton: Yeah, I guess Greg Schwaller now, lives, I think at Three Rivers, which is near Sequoia. At least that was where he was I think 2010 or so. Link: Okay. Bixby: Gosh, that's a long time ago, yeah. Link: I thought Bob, last I talked with Bob, he thought he was up Montana or Wyoming or something like that, but who knows. Lorton: Yeah, I can send you the email that has that. Downie: That would be lovely, yeah, that'd be a real touchstone for QUAFF’s history. Lorton: It would because I, I never met him…met Greg. Bob is, Rich and Bob or someone Bixby: Who was after you? Link: After me? Skip (Virgilio). Lorton: Who was before you? Link: Paul Wesley (second QUAFF president). So I remember when QUAFF was starting because Owen tried to get me to go to the meetings. At that time, I wasn't really interested in, it wasn't all that interested in joining or being part of things. So… Bixby: A loner type, huh. Link: Well yeah. But I do remember him telling me, you know, we're having a meeting down at, it was Old Columbia (Karl Strauss brewery). That's what everyone called it back then. And it was before Chris (Cramer) really wanted to stress the Karl Strauss part of it. And then I still didn't want to go. I mean, their beer wasn't all that great. Why would I want to go all the way downtown? Downie: How much was gas a gallon then? Link: Yeah, yeah, 30 cents. But then, you know, like I said, Paul Wesley followed Greg. And Paul lived out here in Lakeside, and then Owen and Audrey kept working on me and working on me. And then finally they convinced me to go to a meeting at Callahan's (Pub & ; Brewery). At the original Callahan's, this was in 1990. Bixby: That's your first time you went? Link: Uh-huh. And, you know, after like two to three meetings, you know, Paul pretty much recruited me to take over. In those days you needed someone, you know. And so, he kind of felt that I was trustworthy and knew some things. But the club at that time was, I mean we had it from, most of the guys were, like I talked about earlier, the extract corn sugar brewers who are really interested in making liquid alcohol for as cheap as they could make it. Link: And cheap was like the number one priority, truly. And I'm not trying to just make fun of these guys, but that was it. Yeah. They can make 10 cent pints of beer, man, they were in heaven. But we also had guys like Vinnie Cilurzo, and John Thomas and Bob Whritner and Greg Schwaller, some of the guys who really knew what they were doing, you know. So that was pretty cool. And we'd have a little corner and bring in beers and taste them and give remarks and stuff. And that was all pretty cool. But there was a great deal of the club at the time that was not interested in going beyond, you know, the kit type mentality. And I was. In fact most of the guys had never even heard of the AHA. That was kind of my goal is get involved with the AHA more. Link: And that was when we had our first club-only competition and it was a pale ale and Whritner, Bob Whritner, was our representative and he got a second place on the national level in that competition. That kind of lit everyone up cause “Look, we do make good beer and we can get some recognition, let's go for it.” And things got pretty exciting at that time and, beer kinda got better. And you know, we had recently come across liquid yeast, you know, a couple of years earlier, it seemed like it was ’87, ‘86, something like that. So beer was getting much better and a lot more fun to brew. I remember making great wort, just absolutely great man, this is the best beer I've ever made. And then throwing in the packet of yeast and when it comes out and like crap. It's just very disappointing. And then Wyeast (yeast laboratory) was the first pack of liquid yeast I remember. In smack packs. Lorton: Is Bob still around here? Are you still in contact with him? Link: A little bit here and there. They spend, I'd say 90% of their time up in June Lake, but they do have the place in Rancho Bernardo. Lorton: Yeah, I mean Bob would be a good guy to talk to you. I mean, he's really a colorful guy. I think he's an ice scientist or something like that who would go on cruises to research the Arctic. And alcohol is not permitted on a ship, but you've got a bunch of scientists who are really creative, so yeah. Bixby: Better than prison brew. Lorton: Yeah. He would tell me about the breweries or the places to get beer in Tromsø, Norway. You know, some of the story, and Bob is such a funny guy. Somebody was talking about Bob at Peter's party too, it may have been you. Link: Yeah, it was probably me. We had dinner with them and Skip and Mary last summer. Okay. About a year ago. Yeah, he's 80 years old now. He's getting along a little slower as people do. Yeah. Downie: Honestly, you can remember, remember what happened. That's it sounds like he's probably, yeah. So he's definitely on my list of people to approach. Mary Anne. When did you join QUAFF, you and Bix? Bixby: I think it was like ‘92 or so but I remember going to meetings at La Jolla Brewing on Fay Street. (Avenue, La Jolla) Link: Yeah, we moved there. Because Callahan's was too slow, too small. Bixby: So you went from Callahan’s to La Jolla and then back to Callahan’s. Link: Yeah. And then the PB (Pacific Beach) Brewhouse. Lorton: I remember my first meeting was at PB Brewhouse, but it was there because Skip was the brewer there and he was doing a tour. And that was probably May or June of ‘94 because I was lucky enough to win best in show for the AFC (America’s Finest City home brewers competition). And so they said, yeah, why don't you come to a meeting? But I think the normal meeting place at that point was La Jolla Brewing on Fay Street. Yeah. Bixby: That's where I first started. Yeah. That little back room. Isn't that where you gave your slide presentation on? Link: No, the slide was at the expanded Callahan's. Well, when we first started at Callahan's, it was just that one room and we couldn't close it off to the public, you know, so we'd have our meeting and the public and it was not, just not. Downie: Not when you are passing out beer. Link: Well, and the club started to grow. I mean we would have, you know, a lot of nights we'd have 15 or 20 people, but then there was one year at the Del Mar Fair where it got a lot of visibility and the next meeting there was like 40 people and it was like standing room only. It's like, wow, we can't do this anymore. And, and, and La Jolla Brewing Company was just opening and they had a nice big back room. It's like October of 1990. And, so then we moved there. They only lasted a year, a year and a half. And Callahan's had expanded so they had a room that they could close off for us. So that was nice. So we went back there and then, then PB Brew House had, but we actually met in the brewery as I recall it. Didn't we? Lorton: I remember Skip. That first meeting, that was the only QUAFF meeting that I went to that was PB Brew House. But Skip had a tour. Link: They weren't there very long. Lorton: No. And Skip was, he was the president at the time and you know, showing how everything was done. That's the only, only time. And again, that was May or June of 1994. Bixby: Was Dion (Hollenbeck) after Skip then? Link: Yes. Lorton: I think Ted Newcomb. Link: Oh, Ted. Bixby: Oh, Ted. And then Skip then Dion? Lorton: Yeah. And then Todd. Link: I think Ted was a one year. Lorton: Yeah, I've got a list of who is president after from Skip on. So, when I get home I'm now going to pull it out (inaudible). Downie: Wow. Yeah. That's so great. At what point would you say QUAFF actually formalized, ‘cause you said you were kind of recruited into the presidency and it sounds like maybe you kind of recruited Skip to be your relief at some point. Link: It’s kind of still that way. (Laughter) Bixby: Are we really formalized? Link: What does that mean? Downie: Bylaws… Lorton: You know, Rich will go to the restroom. Okay quick. Let's decide on president. Rich. Oh, it's unanimous. Come back from the restroom. “Hey Rich, congratulations you’re president.” Downie: The moral there is don't leave the room. Lorton: Yeah. You know when I became president and Peter was the president, it was Todd Fitzsimmons then Peter and then me. But it was always the case as well. You know, Peter's kind of taking over the stuff that Todd was doing. So Peter is kind of a natural guy for that and I think I kind of fell into the same thing. And Harold Gulbransen was after me and so he got in there and then Bob McKay. Bixby: My impression has always been, the president has always fallen into that position. It's like, man… Link: I think there was one year. Bixby: Willing to do the job to, to pick up, you know, to take up the reins and go for it. And, and we've been very, very fortunate in my tenure. I mean, I mean my time with QUAFF to have some really good people dedicated. Link: But there was one year where we had a vote at a club vote. Bixby: Oh, you remember that, who was this then? Link: Well, I think that was Skip’s second term, but we dodged the bullet. And I think that thought, cause I was, when I handed it off to Skip, you know, we would have essentially closed board meetings and I said “I nominate Skip.” And that was pretty much it. Yeah. Yeah. And then something came up about voting for it, and it was hard to, hard to argue on that point, but we did. But boy, there was something close. I remember that was something that was averted. Link: Yeah, but since then I remember, I think when Todd was president, there was some kind of czar-ish directive. (Laughter) Bixby: Czar-ish, it that what you said? Lorton: Well we, you know, when I was on the board from the time I was the newsletter editor from ‘96 on and ‘til I became president, but it was always a board decision on what the officers were going to be rather than, and we would put it up to the meeting if, you know, the board has decided that this should be the slate of officers. Does anybody have any objection or, you know, I think, I can't recall if we actually said all those in favor, say aye and everybody would go “Give me another beer, aye.” You know? Downie: Then everybody had an opportunity to say something, so it wasn't completely closed or anything. Lorton: Well, and the other thing is that the people who were really interested in how the club was running were the board members. Bixby: That's true. Yeah. No, that's a good statement. Yeah. Downie: A process of natural selection. Bixby: Yes, and those who are actually doing most of the work. Lorton: I think that’s the way it continues now. Bixby: Yes, and we've tried to get more newer board members, we want QUAFF to continue. Downie: Right. Bixby: And we've been throwing it out there over and over, you know, but people are reluctant to, they have their own lives. This is not, you know, like any group. It's a volunteer kind of position. So try to get some of these young people, we have, we have several very great new ideas and so on. I love that part. I just want it to continue. I love QUAFF so much. Lorton: You know, you haven't been a one of the senior officers. Bixby: Never, not yet. Link: (Showing photograph) So that was the original room at Callahan. Downie: That's wonderful. Bixby: Can I see that? Lorton: I’ve got to see that too. Link: And then they added on that section right there where they could actually rope it off. Lorton: Yeah, I remember we had one meeting. There was a point at which we were kind of, we kind of hit a minimum and I remember Harold Gulbransen was giving a talk and it was in October and he was competing with the World Series which was on the TV screen behind him. Bixby: Which was hard for him as one eye was probably on the Series and one eye on the…That’s really great. You have a date on the back too? Lorton: This guy is much more… Link: I would say this is probably about 92-ish. This is not like the photos when we were kids that had the date on the back or on the margins. Downie: Well of course I am trying to work with Lee (Doxtader) at Callahan’s and he can probably give me some dates. I would hope he would remember QUAFF’s presence. Bixby: Was Lee around that long ago? Oh my, (another photograph) well that's… Downie: Chris with Karl Strauss. Bixby: Yeah. Yeah. I remember one of those is a beer dinners they had. I actually sat at the table with Karl and his wife. It was kind of fun. Bixby: I think they still have the same chef. Link: You know, I think so. Bixby: Gunther. Downie: You even remember his name. Bixby: Good food! Link: I knew I had a picture. Bixby: Yeah. That's great. Downie: So. the pictures are wonderful. I mean that would be something that I would be interested in digitizing, giving you copies of the digital files. Link: Most of those are pre-digital, so they're just going to be… Downie: Negatives floating around, if you still have the negatives. Link: They’re somewhere. Yeah, it's tough. Downie: It is. I'm going through my parents’ things and my mother was, you know, a historian at heart and I actually, when I was emptying out the house, I found up on the very highest shelf in the entry hall closet, so, of course that's where the heat all rises. Six eight-millimeter films, pre-sound. My parents' wedding day. My cousins, there's actually some of me, I took them to ScanDiego and they were able to salvage pretty much everything and digitize them. So, I have to give my family, you know, pictures, you know, the films on a DVD and say, here you go. And if anybody, I filled in what I knew what I could recognize and some of them I had to kind of guesstimate the date saying, well, okay, I'm in there. So, I know that had to be this year, but I'm not in that one and this cousin looks younger, so it was probably a couple of years earlier. And I've asked the family, of course, you know, probably none of them have actually stopped and taken the time to look at the DVDs. If I put them online like in Dropbox and link them and said, here, go look at these and you know, give me some feedback. They'd probably do that. But you know, a lot of people don't have DVD players even anymore. Link: DVD? Downie: Yeah, I do have the online digital files. Link: That’s our media now. Downie: Yeah, for me. I've got DVD player and stuff. Bixby: (to Lorton) Which one did you get? Lorton: Get Thee to a Nunnery. (beer name) Bixby: I’m telling you, that is going to be one of my new favorites. Link: Did you try the English (inaudible)? Lorton: Oh, the Banksy? Link: No, the (inaudible). Lorton: No I didn’t. Link: What was it, something about all night or midnight or something. Down Through the Night? Bixby: We'll wait for you if you go get a beer. Loron: I'm just going to say… Link: Well now you can talk about me… Lorton: Let me check on my record to see if I... Link: Quite frankly, there were a lot of QUAFF members at that time that didn't like what I was doing and they stopped coming. But I think it was the right thing to do to make QUAFF more.... Bixby: What years were you in? Link: I was president in 1990. So for two years. Lorton: Yeah. I had the same experience. Bixby: I must have this come in on the end of you. I don't remember being displeased. Link: Well, I think people like us, we're happy with the direction it’s going. But the guys that were making the 10 cent pints, were not. Bixby: Oh, there is a different mentality. When you talk to people across the, yeah, it's a different mentality. Lorton: I mean there was a group, they were complaining, “Oh, you guys are too focused on competition.” Bixby: But it was, I never thought it was, so much as focus on competitions is focusing on bettering your craft is what it was. And so the competitions were feedback. I always looked at it in a totally different way. Lorton: Well, it depends on your perspective ‘cause I agree totally with you. Link: But, there were a lot of members even after the exodus in my period, there were still a lot of members thought we were too fixated on competitions. And I would just tell them don't worry about it. Yeah. Downie: You don't have to participate. It can be a goal for some. Bixby: Yeah, yeah. Link: Just learn from it. Come and enjoy it. What did you want? Bixby: Another Nun. Lorton: Let me know what that British beer was Rich that you said if I had… Link: Oh, it’s Down through the Night, a British Strong. Lorton: Oh okay, now I haven’t had that. Bixby: You know, I live so close, I should have had everything here. Lorton: You know, getting drunk has no appeal to me. Bixby: No, no, no, no, no. You know, that's not the point. Lorton: I know a lot of people who, “Oh yeah,” like get, well, I mean, but I'm not one of them. Bixby: You get drunk, you can't taste another good beer. Lorton: Yeah, I get headaches the next morning. You know, if it's too much, the bed starts spinning around. Bixby: It’s been a long time since that happened. Lorton: I was just going to say, that's when I was a wine person. Downie: So, Mary Anne, tell me about Mead Day and the celebration at your house. Bixby: You know I cannot remember the first time I did it. You’re kind of, like have some trust you know, in your reminisces. Lorton: The unfortunate thing is a lot of my memory is actually in the newsletters that I did. And I don't know if my newsletters predate mead day and I'm trying to remember where else we were. I told Judith that Frank Golbeck came to one of our mead days a few years ago. Bixby: But I'd had them before Frank came along. Lorton: They were quite, I don't know how, I don't remember. It just seems like a long time we have done this. And it's the national mead day, which is the first Saturday in August, which is kind of hot in El Cajon usually, which is an understatement. But sometimes it rained a couple times, but other than that… Lorton: I told her about Death Mead Day. Downie: Yeah. I heard about the Death Mead and anything called Death Mead Day is definitely a must attend. Lorton: What kind of alcoholic beverage do you want to not drink a whole lot of when its hot? Bixby: I know it. (Laughter) Link: At least it’s not Imperial Stout Day. Lorton: It’s stronger than Imperial Stout. Bixby: It's been fun over the years. And, we had one guy who was, owned the Downtown Johnny Brown's, for a while and he made mead cocktails and brought them to Mead Day. So even that was fun. We has meads from all over the place. Lorton: Yeah, we started Mead Day probably when AHA started recognizing it (in 2002). It wouldn’t surprise me because we were into meads back in the early 2000s, late 1990s. Bixby: I should check on the original when AHA started that cause they used to have an official recipe. So, it was like, okay, my garage wasn't so full at the time. So we used to make mead in the garage, which kept all the mess and the stickiness right there. And the, and I would… Lorton: The bees. Bixby: …clean out. Well we did have that. Lorton: When you make mead, if you do it outside, you get bees. Bixby: Oh yeah. Downie: There's a cautionary tale. Link: You come in the garage, you get, come on, really? Get outta here. Lorton: Yeah, they like honey. Bixby: But there was an official recipe and I tried to encourage people, you know, this is the official recipe we're going to do. And since I was hosting it hard for me to make it, but I'm trying to get other people to do it and we, we had some pretty good meads. Lorton: Yeah. Well, there's always… Bixby: Hot or not. I mean it was never blasting. Lorton: Yeah. There's always, always more meads. You end up with a whole bunch leftover when we’re done. Bixby: Yeah, because I tried to collect not just the ones on my travels, but some of the competition meads, even the ones where when we had the homebrew competitions. Then they were like unknown cause I never got the printout to say number whatever is such and such. So we just opened them. I still have a few for this year from last year’s competitions. Lorton: Yeah. So, you know, if we have a, if there's a competition, you know, the idea is submit two bottles. If yours is the best in your category and there's three to five categories, then that best in that category will go on and compete for the best of show. But everything else is just a second bottle, looking for a home. Bixby: (Inaudible) was my home for a long time. Downie: There's the advantage to having it at your house. Bixby: Well I didn't drink them, I saved them so we could share. Cause you never, you didn't know what they were. Lorton: At your house. It was better than being at my house. Bixby: Oh maybe so. Lorton: But yeah. And it was good because I think at the time, and we’re still doing this. There are quite a few people who are interested in being mead judges and it's good to look at “Well, this mead isn't quite so good for this reason. It's too hot and too, you know, too alcoholic” Bixby: Or no flavor. Lorton: Yeah. Things like that. So, but yeah, you know, I'm trying to remember if it was at someplace besides your place when we first got started. Bixby: I don't know. I can't remember that. That's too far off. But I know I did it because Bix was into making beer and mead making was similar to wine making. So, it interested me. And so, I started making mead. Link: With your daughter? Bixby: You know, actually I, I know I did it before, but the only mead my daughter and I ever made was in 2000 there's one bottle left. I have no idea how it tastes. I hate to open it without her. If she could ever come to Mead Day, I would open it. But she helped formulate the recipe. Downie: So good. Rich, have you ever done mead or cider? Link: Yeah, I did a few. It wasn't something that I really wanted to do much of because I didn't drink a lot of mead. It was tough for me to, it was just tough to drink that much mead. Yeah. Bixby: Are you a wine maker? I mean a wine drinker at all? You are? Link: Yeah. Bixby: You are. Lorton: I am not. Link: It is a lot easier for me to drink a bottle of wine than it was for mead. Mead was just too much. Lorton: Yeah. I'm kind of the same way. You know, I go through periods when, “Oh, that mead really tastes good. I need to make some.” And then I, you know, I've made a whole bunch and okay and I've got to get rid of these bottles, you know, and… Bixby: No, I agree. When your palate has tasted so many things, I've gone through stages too. So you know, maybe I'm into a hop mood and maybe I'm not, you know, or something like that. Lorton: Well, and for me, I have a beer with dinner and there aren't many foods that don't go well with beer, but there are a lot of foods that don't go well with wine or mead. Bixby: That's interesting. Cause I remember when all this pairing stuff, remember when they were into the pairing and the food and the beer dinners and so on. And that was one of the things I heard right from the beginning. The guys, the chefs, saying not the drinkers, but the chefs would say, yeah, they had an easier time with the beer. Lorton: Yeah. What kind of wine or me goes best with a hamburger or what kind of pizza goes best with wine? Downie: Well, I have to say when I was in the Craft Beer Expo last September and did the chocolate and beer pairing with Bill Sysak. Saturday morning at 9:00 AM, I'm sitting there with chocolate and beer in front of me going, “This is something real wrong, cause I'm not that big a beer drinker.” But Bill made the argument that the carbonation in beer actually because it cuts through the fatty of the foods, makes for a better drink with any food. Link: That’s why it’s so much better with cheese than wine is, you know, the whole wine thing is wine and cheese. Well no, it doesn't work as well as beer. Downie: And with wine, until you get into this whole, you've got red, you've got white, you've got these very distinct strong categories where with beer there seems to be a, because of the hops and things, there seem to be a more consistent thread through it. So, it just seems to be more all-purpose maybe, I am not explaining it very well. Lorton: Well, I mean there's so many, I mean beer is such a much more diverse than wine. Link: I've had arguments with wine makers about that. Oh you know, wine does this. So there's so many variations. And I said, okay, let's just talk about beer, the different kinds of malts, the different kinds of hop, different kinds of yeast. It's like infinite. Yeah, it's, it's truly infinite. Wine. Like you said, you got your reds and whites, you got blends and stuff, but they only got about five or six different categories. Really. Bixby: That was fun for me to watch. The homebrewing community really affect what we drink now because the guys had no limits. And so, we had people making beer with Jolly Ranchers or something from the grocery store, cereal bins, or something like that. And then these ideas just kind of, I think progress and what the creativity is, was part of the whole thing. That's what I love. And then of course the gadgetry, I was in love with the gadgetry. Oh my gosh you guys… Link: There were a lot of engineers and scientists that brew. Bixby: It was beautiful. That's what I love. I did love that part. That so much. Lorton: Yeah. And you see that in commercial brewing now. I mean, if you look at the new things that the brewers are making, you know, I went to a golf and beer festival a couple of weeks ago or a couple of months ago, eight breweries where there, you know, Stone, Mother Earth, Mike Hess, Latitude 33, five of those eight had a citrus IPA. You know, three years ago how many citrus IPAs were out there? Ballast Point was there with Grapefruit Sculpin. Latitude 33 had their Blood Orange IPA. Stone had Tangerine IPA, but three years ago, how many citrus IPAs were out there, and then all these new things are coming along. Man, that Blood Orange IPA from Latitude 33 is so good. Went up to Double Peak (Park) a couple of weeks ago and came back to a Japanese restaurant, a sushi bar, and they had, you know, Asahi, Kirin, Sapporo and this “blood orange stuff that we can't get rid of.” “Oh, I'll take that one. Is that from Latitude 33?” “I don't know I’ll check. Yes, it's from Latitude 33.” Bixby:Interesting. Downie: Interesting that they wouldn't. Of course when somebody goes to a sushi restaurant, they probably want to drink culturally appropriate beer. Lorton: This was in San Marcos, not far from where, you know, Homebrew Mart, whatever, Beer and Wine Crafts was located. Bixby: It’s San Diego County after all. Lorton: Oh man, it went so well, I had tempura so… Link: Are you grasping the hops nowadays? I ‘cause we used to have… Lorton: Yeah. Link: You know, arguments. I really mean ‘cause I would hop my beers. Bixby: You two would? Link: Well exceedingly hoppy and you know, and it was way too hoppy for Greg. Lorton: I would like a beer with a little bit of diacetyl in it. Link and Bixby: Oh no! Lorton: A little bit is a lot. This guy, if you open a beer with that in it in the room… Bixby: He said it a long time ago and it sticks in my mind. Link: I'm across the room going alright, who opened that up? Get that outta here! Lorton: Yeah, you and Skip. Well I normally like Belgian beers. I like non-hoppy beers, but if I'm going to have a pizza, it's got to be an IPA. you know, I really like a hoppy beer with pizza or hot chili. Downie: Spicy. Lorton: Yeah. Yeah. I haven't found a wine yet that goes well with those, but, and I haven't looked real hard either. But you know, for a beer like for a food like pizza or chili and I really kinda want a hoppy beer. Link: Chiantis, the Sangiovese with Pizza Hut. (Laughter) Bixby: There you go. Lorton: Oh man. Your masculinity is just gone into that. (Laughter) Yeah. I stopped being a wine person as soon as I discovered homebrewing. I haven't had a wine in at least a year. Bixby: Oh, I’m afraid I am an all-purpose drinker. Downie: Since you have made wine… Bixby: It depends on it, whatever my mood is. Sometimes I am in the mood for hops… Link: I don't discriminate against any alcohol. Bixby: Nor do I. Lorton: I don't have any wine in my house. Bixby: A good single malt scotch sometimes that’s what you want. Lorton: I’ve got a bottle of Laphroaig and Balmore in my refrigerator. I like them cool. But, uh, no wine. Bixby: Oh dear. Link: So where did we leave off on the QUAFF? Downie: My questions were fairly generic here, so I'm just kind of looking. You've talked about the growth of the membership, which I think really says something. I do have other QUAFF past-presidents like Peter Zien to talk to yet, but it sounds like you are still members of a very strong supportive community and you know, you're very open minded too, except for that one thing that you've talked about that you could smell it across the room. It sounds like you're a super smeller. Lorton: Diacetyl, it’s butter, it’s buttery aroma. Downie: Okay. Lorton: Really good. Bixby:For me, it’s skunky. I’ll get the skunkiness out of anything, I hate it. Link: Great on popcorn. Not so good in beer. Lorton: But I mean Rich is one of these people that is, yeah… Bixby: You know the thing you said about supportive, I think the key that I've always found with QUAFF. Supportive, not just in the, oh, who needs help brewing, but just in other ways too. When my husband died, I knew if I needed something…I'm usually, I'm a loner and I'll do it myself kind of thing. But I knew if I really needed something, I could call on somebody and I had many offers. So, I think that's, that's what it became, well, I mean, I said it in Sheldon’s (Kaplan) movie (SUDS County, USA). QUAFF to me was always a family, like a second family. Lorton: I, then one thing that Rich brings is, I mean you've been all over the world tasting beer and you know, you can talk about places in Brussels to go if you want a good beer. Places, you know… Bixby: The knowledge you mean? Lorton: Yeah. Just, well experiencing those beers at the source. You know, for me, my favorite beer city is Bamberg, Germany. Bixby: You like those malt beers. Lorton: I like it. You know, the majority of the breweries there don't make smoked beers, but you know, they all make good beer and but yeah, I do love the smoked beer. I mean almost as much as buttery beer. Downie: Where do you stand on smoked beer Rich? Link: I like it. Okay. Oh yeah. You do have common ground there somewhere. Lorton: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Link: I mean there isn't a beer style that I hate unless they put cucumber in it. (Laughter) Bixby: I might have to agree with you on that. Like cucumber water. Link: I haven't figured that one out yet. Downie: That does sound like it would be a mistake. Link: Yeah. But I see it on the shelves now. Bixby: Oh dear. Oh you do? Link: Yeah. Not kidding. Lorton: I'm trying to remember if at that beer festival I had one with cucumber in it. In the competitions, I usually like to judge what we call weird beers, which is fruit beers, spice or vegetable beers, specialty. And occasionally you run into a cucumber. But I've had some cucumber beers lately. They weren't bad, but cucumber is not my favorite. I guess that's a vegetable I don’t know and uh, yeah, it's not, I've never made one with cucumber in it. Bixby: I like cucumbers but not in water and probably would not like it in beer. Link: People like it. And that's fine. Bixby: I’ve had asparagus beer that I thought was… Link: WOW. wow. Bixby: No, I know when I saw it the guys were saying this is at GABF and so, ”You have to try this, you have to try that.” Oh, okay. And then it was done perfectly. It's like how do you get asparagus in a beer and not have it like be yucky or something? Although it did have the same effect after the fact, as eating asparagus, unfortunately. (laughter) Lorton: Thank you. TMI. I’ve never had an asparagus beer. Or spinach Bixby: It’s interesting, the different beers, you know, you run into at GABF (Great American Beer Festival) when you're, when you're working in the back with all the beers. A job. I like. Lorton: Oh wow. Link: I remember an early QUAFF meeting and the guy brought in a beer that he brewed based on some historical reading. He had dug up with bananas. And he brought it up and we're tasting it. I'm going, “Oh my God. You know, I've done everything I can to get banana tastes and flavors out of my beers. Why would you intentionally put it in?” Bixby: That’s really interesting. Link: Historical significance? Okay. Don’t like it. Lorton: I've heard that. Bixby: Not on that Sumerian tablet, I’m sure. Downie: A sacrifice for historical research. Well, there actually is in ancient Greece, if a woman was having trouble nursing a child after birth, there was a recipe involving worms crushed up in beer to correct the situation. Bixby:Oh, that's interesting. They could have minused the worms. I'm sure she would have been happier. Downie: Yeah. Maybe. Maybe the worms were to keep her from drinking too much. I don't know, but… Bixby: Maybe that's a good point. Lorton: You know, probably 15 years ago we were talking about cock ale. Randy Barnes made a beer with chicken in it and it wasn't very good. He said, well, okay, I made the cock ale and Randy, he's the guy who's the vice president of educational services with a community college district. Bixby: He’s the dean or something. Lorton: Yeah, he's the kind of guy who would do it. He's the guy who you'd never expect is a professional, if you ever ran into him. Bixby: That's right. Lorton: If, but I, yeah and he’s really… Bixby: Creative. Lorton: And he's really smart and with a sense of humor that just would never stop. Link: Jim Koch told me about doing that once their little brewery (Sam Adams) back in Boston. A pilot brewery. It wasn't so good. Downie: Yeah, it doesn't… Link: Throwing in chickens into the… Bixby: I can't even, why would you even consider that? Downie: Any meat product does not sound like it would… Link: There is some historical significance about it, which I couldn't even grasp. Lorton: Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, that's a good, I don't know. Link: Cause you know he based a lot of things on historical significance. Lorton: Yeah. Yeah. Bixby: Oh, I am going to have to read up on that now. Chicken and beer and see what I get. Lorton: Cock Ale. Ask Randy. He would probably recall. Bixby: Why he would do, I don't know about the historical, maybe he would. Lorton: Well yeah, I can't remember how we got onto that, but it was enough that it kind of sustained itself for a couple months. Downie: That's something I'm seeing here in your stories is the fact that you're supportive of each other, that you've kept in touch with each other, that you've had fun. Bixby: Oh my gosh. I don't know about these guys, but I had a blast probably, you know, I'm, I married a guy who was kinda quiet, not a social kind of person. In fact, even now when I'm thinking about him after a couple, you know, a year and a half, it's like I look up, you know, Asperger's in adults. I go, that sounds like my man. No, he just was not a social kind of guy, but QUAFF, there was a home for him in QUAFF and everybody seemed to accept him and he felt, you know, quote end quote loved there, whatever you want to call it. That was just the right place to be. I mean, it just, for us as geeky, nerdy, whatever you want to call us, we fit. Lorton: Well, and the other thing is that, you know, one of the reasons I really like making beer as opposed to making wine is that when I was married, I had a brother-in-law who was a real wine snob and he was a spirits snob, and you know, it was, it just grated on me. And you know, beer people aren't like that. Well, you know, most beer people aren't. Bixby: But do you think so? I don't think they are. Link: There are some, but yeah, there's you know… Lorton: There are a few that say, well, I'm not going to drink that. Bixby: Even the women who drink wine a lot, they’ll drink beer now and then. Link: Any, aspect of, like cheese or hamburger, anything. People are purist people. Yeah. Lorton: You have people in QUAFF who will say, “I'm not gonna drink a Ballast Point beer because they're owned by Constellation Brands. Or I'm not going to buy a…”, you know, yeah. Downie: Well, that can go back to when gas hit a dollar a gallon. People saying, “I'm not buying any more gas. Well, I'd like to see you try.” Lorton: That’s the nice thing, in beer is a much more community, you know, it, it's… Bixby: I'm not sure what it is across the country ‘cause I don't know anywhere else, but San Diego and I just feel they've been cooperative and giving. Lorton: I think it’s like that in most places, yeah. Link: Mm-hum. Bixby: I mean, I know when I've traveled all these years with Bix, we always of course, stopped at breweries nearby, right. If not aimed towards them specifically. That if you start talking to the guys, and I always like just sitting at the bar talking to who brews this. And then pretty soon somebody comes out. Oh, let me show you my tanks. And it's usually, like Peter, and like AleSmith started out with dairy tanks or something and I, and I had to weld this and I had to do that and I go, Oh yeah. So that's just a different… Lorton: It's like that all over the country. It, and it was funny because when I was teaching business classes that you'd have marketing people who didn't know beer saying, well, you know, there's not a lot of cooperation among competitors in an industry. And I say, well, you need to look at the brewing industry because you know, like, when there was a hop shortage eight years ago, you know, some brewers were giving hops to others or selling at a low price to allow them to continue. Sam Adams was selling hops, at their, you know, their costs as opposed to what the price was. You know, when there was the hop shortage. Bixby: Oh, cause they had the option. Link: Well, they bought futures, future contracts. Lorton: I mean, look at all the homebrew clubs. I was looking at the names of some of those clubs, like Brewers United for Real Potables in Virginia, the Greater Denver Yeast Infection and you know, Maltose Falcons and, you know, playing on the Maltese Falcon. Bixby: That’s a good one. Lorton: There’s Foam on the Brain here. And you know, QUAFF there, there's so many funny names that Strange Brew in Oregon, you know, and in all kinds, Urban Knaves of Grain, in Chicago. Yeah, I mean there's so many funny names, so. Yeah. And that's because that's how brewers are. They, you know, Hey, you know, this is fun. You know, we're not taking it too seriously. We are, you know, really studying, brewing, but it's for fun, you know. Bixby: Seems you know, that'd be a good lesson all over. Link: I think is just more of a social fun drink than spirits. Lorton: If I'm going to go to a place where I'm going to have a drink with other people and I have to go home, I'm going to have a beer. I'm not going to have a, you know, scotch on the rocks, you know, I'm not gonna to do that, you know? Bixby: Well, there is a group that would do that. You know, what do they think about, you know, my martini for dinner and scotch after or… Lorton: Beer seems like it's a much more sociable drink that let's go have a beer. Bixby: More for the common man and we're all just common man. I don’t know, I don’t know what the deal is. Lorton: You know, maybe a lower alcohol and a… Link: Yes, lower alcohol. You get a pint. You can drink for a half hour or more and still drive home. Lorton: Even if your home is like a mile away or so. Link: Yeah, right up there. Bixby: Mine is max 10 minutes. And that's taking the slow road here. Lorton: Well, yeah, I was gonna say when I went to Mead Day last year, I came here first and then I got on the road and I was driving and some guy’s really slow SUV or something or a Leer truck. Oh, it's Teresa and Rich. Oh, they're going to the same place I’m going. Link: It was after a day at Mead Day we decided to stop here. Yeah. Lorton: Well I did it before, which was probably a little bit of a mistake. Yeah. Downie: Well, one final thing I'd like to ask about…the increase of women in brewing, are you seeing that reflected in the membership in QUAFF? Link: I can't talk to that cause I haven't been to a QUAFF meeting. Bixby: I would, I would say no. I mean I belong to SUDS. Downie: The San Diego sorority. Bixby: Yeah. Yeah. And those women are not involved in commercial brewing. They are, it's not like the Pink Boots, it's more that they want to do their own thing. They know what they're doing and like, they do know what they're doing in spite of what you guys might think, (interjected denials from Link and Lorton) these girls do know what they're doing. In fact, I was, you know, it's really interesting cause when Juli first, Juli Goldenberg, first came up with the idea for this group (San Diego Suds Sorority), she talked at a QUAFF meeting and I said, “Oh shoot, you know, I grew up in the 60s we'd marched for equal rights, we burned our bras, we did all this kind of stuff. And why do we want to separate, you know, why do we want it something separate?” And Harold, I know I mentioned that to Harold, he goes, why don’t you just get involved in that? Why don't you see what they're all about? Cause something, I dunno what it was that he saw. So I thought. Okay. And I went and I was really impressed because they knew what they wanted to do. He knew about brewing, they had been brewing, they just wanted a group that wasn't going to be intimidating. And I went to a talk when we had our last (inaudible) conference here was in 2015 and it was about women. And that whole idea was a panel discussion on, I thought it was absolutely excellent cause there were groups of women from different women's groups across the country talking about that whole idea. And one other woman my age, as she appeared to be, got up and said, “Why do we want to be separated” and I go, “Oh gosh, that's what I voiced.” Bixby: But then the group panel kind of, you know, said because when we do stuff with the guys they want to take over, you know, it's a natural… Link: You’re a minority. It's tougher. Bixby: Thank you very much. Lorton: Well, no, no true. Bixby: In the brewing community. Yes. Not in life. Okay, that's true. So it's like what do we know about the science or the whole art of brewing? And they said this way, you know, we have this, this separateness that we can kind of teach each other and have this open kind of a... And one of the ladies said, “All guys were asking if they could come and join. Yes, you can come and be part of it, but you have to sit over there and be eye candy.” (laughter) Link: And don’t talk. Bixby: Yeah. And if we need something lifted. Downie: I was going to say there might be something of the chivalry aspect where that's big as, you're a little woman and let me help you with that. Bixby: But I thought that was a very interesting topic and it was pertinent too. And I, since I joined the SDSS and have been part of that, I've been totally impressed with the beers that come out of there. And the girls, they're just, they're fun. Lorton: Yeah. Well, if you look at who won this year at (the San Diego) International Beer Festival, I mean Liz Chism is the brewer at Council (Brewing Company). She's the one who made the beer that won. And… Bixby: It's nice that her husband Curtis really makes a point of that is not, he's not intimidated. So for me he has a lot of… Lorton: Well it was a little bit of a mind change too for me that, ‘cause I thought Curtis was the brewer. Bixby: I knew from the beginning. Lorton: He clarified that with me. That Liz is the one who brews, she's the one who makes the recipes. Bixby: So that's very impressive. She's very good at… Lorton: Oh yeah. Yeah. I've judged with both of them and she definitely, I mean it was clear that she really understands. Bixby: I don’t know, I don't see, I mean I don't know what Pink Boots (Society, organization for women and non-binary brewers) says. I know there's women in the industry, but as far as home brewing, I don't see a big enough presence in QUAFF. And I don't know if it's intimidation. I don't think so. I don't, I think it's like what's more important in your life? What's going on? Do you need to… Link: The time that you have available, its pretty easy to go order a beer. Bixby:You know, a guy is going to go out, that's his thing. You know, where a woman might say I got, especially if she has kids and then she's got a job and then she's got a house and I'm sorry guys. But it's still that way you're as the female, you're still the one that, because it's your nest and it's, and that's okay. It's just, you know, when I was growing up it's like gender equality, course, you know, I will always be for financial equality, but you know, these days there is no gender equality. We are different and that's okay. And once we get past that then we can go on. Lorton: Well, you know, before the Industrial Revolution, women were the ones who made beer. You know, that was part… Bixby: That way before, cause you guys were doing the, catching those mammoths and whatever else you guys, you know. Lorton: So you know, that was their job. I think. Yeah, it's unfortunate. I think that, you know, there is this, still you know, homebrewing is still predominantly a male kind of thing. The other thing that I think is surprising, and I didn't realize this until after I'd started all grain brewing is I'm essentially cooking, you know? Yeah. Here I am in the kitchen, slaving over a hot stove. (laughter) I'm cooking. So, yeah. And you know, and I realize, I'm creating recipes thinking, okay... (brief interruption by the server.) Downie: You did want your crowler. Don’t forget. Bixby: Oh that’s right, cause I'm going to the meeting tomorrow. Lorton: Oh, and for Mead Day, I went to a new meadery last week in Vista. Bixby: Which one? Lorton: Twisted Horn. Bixby: I've heard of that. How was it? Lorton: Yeah, they had some good meads. I'm waiting for Billy (Beltz) to open his meadery (Lost Cause Meadery). Bixby: Me too. Lorton: …and he's going to be in Miramar. That's going to be something. Link: What’s the name of it? Lorton: Lost Cause. Link: Isn’t there another meadery just opened there? Lorton: Well, Twisted Horn. Oh, it's Serendipity Cider is there. Bixby: He’s in the same spot is as... Lorton: And I think he's been having some regulatory problems, but there are four meaderies. There's also one called Mediocrity. Bixby: Yeah. And then the Bronto group guys. Lorton: Oh, I haven't heard that one. Bixby: Yeah, they're not making good stuff. Mediocrity is okay. Lorton: I have not tried theirs. Bixby: They're like up in there. They're okay. Link: Are they like mediocre? (laughter) Bixby: I don't know why somebody would choose that name. Lorton: We were talking about how about Black Plague (Brewing Company) as a name for a brewery? Link: Yeah. Bixby: I'm not sure where these guys come up with this stuff, but… Lorton: Well, Twisted Horn is a big Viking thing. And they're in the area with all the Vista breweries. Bixby: Were they on the sweet side or no, is Viking sweet? Lorton: No, they were semi-sweet. But they had, you know, they had like, it was posted Horn Mead and Cider and I only tried the meads but they had probably six meads to choose from. The one I liked the best was a blueberry melomel, but they had various collections. I'll bring some, I'll stop by there and get a small growler to bring by. But yeah, on Lost Cause, I mean when they get situated there's going to be five breweries and meaderies literally across the street (Miralani Drive, San Diego) from each other. Bixby: And sake. Lorton: Okay. Yeah. Cause I mean Two Kids, Align, what’s that, Thunderhawk? And there’s another one, Projector? Bixby: I know. Downie: There's Protector. Link: Protector. That’s the one, they're not a meadery? Lorton: I don't think they are. Bixby: Protector. Now see that's not one I have heard of. I can't keep up. These guys are moving too fast. Lorton: Well yeah, I've got to talk with my son cause my son likes to make mead and… Bixby: Oh, his son made the best. I'm sorry, I'm sorry Greg, but his bouchet was wonderful. Lorton: Bouchet is a mead that's made from caramel from sugar that's been, or honey that's been carmelized. Downie: Ooh. Bixby: And you know I tasted one at Mike Buck’s. Mike Buck made one that was really good too. Lorton: Yeah. I made one. But it was kind of underdone. Bixby: Yeah, your son's was… Lorton: Yeah, he made a good one. It was distinctive. Bixby: I can definitely remember one. Mine just tasted really good at the beginning, getting at all those bubblegum flavors and all that. And then it just dissipated. Okay. That's not non distinct. Lorton: Right. Unfortunately, mine is gone, long gone, so I don't know what… Bixby: Mine's gone too. Lorton: That tastes like. But yeah, that area, that Miralani Drive is… Bixby: I know and it's getting… Link: Oh, they're (Protector Brewery) all organic. Organic. Lorton: Okay. Downie: Yeah. I was just looking at them last night. Bixby: Oh dear. So what’s not organic about honey? Lorton: True. Link: They’re not a meadery, they’re a brewery. Bixby: Oh. Oh. Downie: And probably the biggest challenge is organic hops. Bixby: Oh, that makes sense. So is anybody doing that locally? Organic hops? I mean, how many local hops growers do we have? We have Star B (ranch and hop farm in Ramona, CA)… Lorton: Well, I would guess I met with a guy (Eric March) from Star B one time and we were talking about you know, meads, but you know, it wouldn't surprise me. And there's an article in West Coaster I think this month about Star B also. Bixby: Is there? Lorton: Yeah. Get the West Coaster here. Bixby: Is it in there? Lorton: Yeah. Okay. But yeah, you know, I think one of the interesting things is, you know, looking at businesses and that's one thing that I've been trying to study a lot is you know, what's the factors lead to success in business. And you know, we see that, okay, apparently Lightning (Brewery, Poway CA) is selling all their stuff. Bixby: Yeah. I don't know what, Jim (Crute), I think is too academic or… Lorton: No marketing at all. Bixby: Yeah. I think, I mean, he was a great brewer and all that and I loved it. He was a great guy. Lorton: But did you see Intergalactic (Brewing Company) is looking at maybe getting it, you need to get the West Coaster (San Diego brewing magazine, defunct). Downie: And the Intergalactic website is saying that they are definitely taking a different direction, whether it's to close or… Bixby: No kidding. Lorton: There's an article on it. Link: I heard that last Friday Lorton: And you know, I think the way to go in the future is just do it small. You know, don't they expect to conquer the world? Bixby: You mean don't start thinking Ballast Point billion dollars-ish. I think that's going to do you in, ‘cause we are San Diego and you would like some of our local, um… Lorton: There's also an interview with Jim Crute in that and he says if he was ever to get back in the business it would be as a nanobrewery making a small amount of beer for a localized customer base. Bixby: Like, like local English pub kind of thing made locally. Link: Like this here (Burning Beard Brewery). Bixby: Oh well like, yeah, they don't want to screw this up because this is too close to my house. And I know it's a bit like, I don't even have to go to Santee. I'm right here. Lorton: Like I was telling Judith that El Cajon was pretty much a beer desert. Bixby: Oh, you don't even go there. I know how many times I was like, “Oh, the Bostonia Ballroom (El Cajon, CA), that huge building there. I thought that's a great place for some fun.” Well, no, now I don't know what they're doing over there. Link: Yeah, that area is… Bixby: Don't say that. There's where I live. I don't know what's going on in that area. Link: It’s a commercial area. Bixby: I mean, I don't know what's happening with El Cajon in general. Lorton: It’s a great place to visit, but not to live. (laughter) Bixby: Find me a house in La Mesa so I can walk to a coffee. Lorton: Yeah. But you’re east of that, right? You're closer to Alpine than anybody else here. Bixby: Yeah. I am close to Alpine. Bixby: Yeah. I used to go the Breadbasket all the time when before it was Alpine Brewing. Lorton: Is that right? Bixby: Yeah. Downie: Well, at this point I'm going to end our recording and I want to thank you all for the time and the stories. This has been absolutely fascinating. I'm filling in some of the gaps and given me leads of more people to go chase down for more histories. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en audio Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the university. 
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Title
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Link, Rich, Mary Anne Bixby, and Greg Lorton. Interview July 9, 2017.
Description
An account of the resource
<span><strong>Rich Link, Mary Anne Bixby and Greg Lorton</strong> are all early members of <strong>Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (QUAFF)</strong>, a San Diego area homebrewing group. In this interview, Link, Bixby, and Lorton discuss their introduction to craft beer, early home brewing experiences, QUAFF, various local breweries, mead, and womens’ participation in homebrewing. None have worked in the industry professionally, but all are certified beer judges and Lorton and Bixby also judge mead competitions.</span><br /><br /><span><strong>Link</strong> wrote for the </span><em>Celebrator Beer News</em><span> magazine on the Southern California beer scene and his experiences visiting European breweries. He served several terms as QUAFF President. He is a certified beer judge.</span><br /><br /><span><strong>Lorton</strong> served as QUAFF Newsletter editor and President. (He has provided a separate oral history.)</span><br /><br /><span><strong>Bixby</strong>, with her late husband, Horace, switched from wine making to beer making. She belonged to the SDSS (San Diego Suds Sorority) which was a women-only subgroup of QUAFF.<br /></span>
<p><span data-contrast="auto"><strong>QUAFF</strong> was founded in 1989 for San Diego area homebrewers to learn, improve, and successfully compete with their beers, ciders, meads, and other fermented beverages. The group also assists members with earning national Beer Judge Certification (BJCP) and encourages participation in club-only and external competitions and charity events. </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-contrast="auto">QUAFF is noted for sponsoring the America’s Finest City Homebrew Competition. One recipe from the pool of first-place winners considered for Best of Show at this event is selected for production at a local commercial brewery. Participating breweries have included Stone Brewing and AleSmith Brewing. The beers produced include Stone’s Xocovesa, developed by member Chris Banker. The club has garnered awards such as the American Homebrewers Association’s Radegast Award for community involvement and California and National Homebrew Club of the Year Awards, based on competition points earned. </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-contrast="auto">Dozens of QUAFF members have ‘gone pro’ either finding employment in the beer industry in a variety of positions or opening their own brewery. Some have opened breweries in San Diego County and others have moved either elsewhere in California or out of state.</span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span><span data-contrast="auto">As the group has grown, the monthly meetings have moved from member’s homes, to Callahan’s Pub, Karl Strauss Brewery and Gardens, and now meet at The Gärten (Bay Park neighborhood beer garden space shared by Lost Cause Mead, Oddish Wine, and Deft Brewing.) </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-contrast="auto">Their website is found at </span><a href="https://quaff.org/"><span data-contrast="none">https://quaff.org/</span></a><span data-contrast="auto"> </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<span>This recording was made on the front exterior patio of Burning Beard Brewery in El Cajon; there are periods of traffic noise which interfered with recording.</span>
Identifier
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SC027-054
Subject
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Home brewing -- California -- San Diego County
Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (San Diego, Calif.)
Women brewers -- California -- San Diego County
Date
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2017-07-09
Format
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audio
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rich Link
Mary Anne Bixby
Greg Lorton
Contributor
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Judith Downie
Coverage
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San Diego County (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos
Language
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English
Rights
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
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California State University San Marcos
Brewchive(r)
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/350ab5bf49cba0e9a4a923eb587611ce.pdf
f11c38b6b10d6cbed0c2b9dd40740984
PDF Text
Text
RICH LINK, MARIANNE
BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Judith Downie: 00:00:00
Okay. It's July 9th, 2017.1 This is Judith Downie interviewer, with Rich Link
and Mary Anne Bixby and Greg Lorton, all QUAFF members, former officials
of QUAFF, for oral history about their experiences with homebrewing and
QUAFF. 2 It should be able to pick up everybody. So basically, you know,
you can kind of look at those questions I gave you. You can start talking
maybe from, how did you start homebrewing? What got you interested?
Rich Link:
00:00:40
Well, I liked beer. And I saw something on TV one day and I saw something
in a liquor store and it had a recipe and I said, “You can actually make beer
at home?” And then I just looked in the yellow pages and there was Wine
Art at the time over here on Fletcher Parkway.3 And, uh, that was in 1980
as I recall it. And at that time, homebrewers essentially made a five-gallon
batch with a can of malt and four pounds of corn sugar, holding back a cup
of corn sugar for bottling. For the bottling. And it was okay. It was as
actually better than, you know, the mass-produced beers here in the
United States ‘cause you know, we just couldn't take that stuff anymore.
90% of what I would drink would come from England and Germany. And at
that time those were really good beers.
Downie:
00:01:54
And where were you finding these beers?
Link:
00:01:56
Yeah, in liquor stores. Yeah. Like that time, I think we had like Liquor Barn
and some of the little hole-in-the-walls would have some good imports, but
you know, it was like some beers were like $10, $12 a six pack and that was
pretty expensive. You could make about two and a half cases of beer for
about $10 or $15., seems like. Yeah. You know, I remember my first batch
very, very clearly. It was a Pale Ale and it got all funked up with the yeast
and it was cidery and it's like, “Okay, but you know, there's still something
behind there that tastes really good.” It actually had good malt flavor and
some hop flavor. Had no idea what the hops were because we just bought
a bag that said ‘boiling hops’ and another one that said ‘finishing hops’.
[Laughter.]
Greg Lorton:
00:02:56
But you made it.
Link:
00:02:58
Yeah. And it was cool. And I remember when the fermentation took off and
you'd see the head on the beer. It's like, “Wow, that's pretty cool.” Smelled
amazing. Bottling sure was a pain in the butt.
Mary Anne Bixby: 00:03:12 It always is.
Recording on front exterior patio of Burning Beard Brewery in El Cajon, there are periods of traffic noise which
interfered with recording.
2
Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity home brewers club.
3
In the 1980s, Wine Art was a nation-wide chain of supply shops for home wine making. It was located on Fletcher
Parkway in El Cajon, California.
1
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
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�RICH LINK, MARIANNE
BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
Lorton:
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Yeah. That's the one thing that pushes me towards Rich and uh, yeah. Mary
Anne, what about you and Bix?4
Bixby:
00:03:28
Well, my first experience with home brewed beer was in college and it
wasn't my own, it was friends' and the guys had made this beer that they
had in mason jars. It was all cloudy. so, it was very yeasty. That part I
remember very well and it was awful. It was awful. I think all I could say
was give me a glass of wine.
Lorton:
00:03:51
Were you a, you were a chemistry major?
Bixby:
At one time.
Lorton:
Okay. At Purdue?
Bixby:
At Purdue.
Lorton:
Okay.
Bixby:
00:04:00
But, when I got married, we were winemakers and we started out with
Wine Art in Chicago and they had these plans where you could make four
wines and they had the classes and… Wine Art at that time was, like early
seventies, not into beer that much. They had some cans of malt on the
shelf, but nowhere near what we have available now with yeasts and the
hops and so on. So Bix and I were making wine and he did try beer once
but it started exploding in the basement. So I think we dumped most of it
out.
Link:
00:04:39
I can’t tell you how many times I've heard that story about exploding beers.
“Oh yeah. My uncle used to make beer. It used to explode.” Man, I never
had one explode.
Lorton:
00:04:47
Yeah, I would wake up in the morning, go out in the garage and “Hmm.
Smells like malt.”
Bixby
Oh oh.
Lorton:
You look at the shelf and there's stuff dripping down, a wet spot with
bottles there and there's one bottle that looks a little shorter than the
others. And yeah, it blew apart and the top sank down. Yeah, I had. And it
wasn't until, you know, I never had that with an extract brew. But once I
started all grain brewing…
4
Bix is the nickname for Mary Ann’s husband, Horace Bixby, another early member, deceased.
Transcribed by Ernest
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Lorton:
00:05:21
I never had a bad extract brew. I never had great extract brew. But once I
went to all grain, I had some really good ones. Some pretty bad ones.
[Laughter.] So now when was this all this wine making stuff?
Bixby:
00:05:45
Well, in the 70s and then we moved here to California in ‘75 and we
started with the Wine Art again with making wine with their program. And
then all this stuff started appearing on the shelves and Bix got interested in
the beer, and before you know it, he was making beer and also we joined
QUAFF. And that went that direction totally. I think we only made a few
wines after that; it was all beer.
Downie:
00:06:20
So, my understanding is that Audrey Eckblom and Owen were kind of the
nucleus of the startup QUAFF. But I have not been able to reach Audrey
and I know she's in Nevada and I tried to call her and I've tried writing her
and don't get a response. So, what do you remember about beer in Wine
Crafts? I know she took it over when Wine Crafts decided to close the
location and she became Beer and Wine Crafts. But you know anything
about her history as a brewer or anything like that?
Lorton:
00:07:02
Yeah, I moved down here in 1988 and I was living in Carlsbad, but that was
the only place to go. And they opened a second shop in San Marcos.
Probably in the, I'm thinking, uh, mid-nineties…
Link:
Mid-nineties, something like that, 1995.
Lorton:
Yeah, it was you know, I can show you exactly where it is in San Marcos.
Link:
I remember it.
Lorton:
But I mean that was a lot closer for me. Yeah. It was near Bent Avenue.
Bixby:
00:07:42
Well before Audrey and Owen had the place, there was, it was owned by
somebody named Peter, I think it was Peter, his name. And he I guess got
out of the business, I don't know, cause then it was Audrey and Owen and
she was pretty, she was really very helpful.
Link:
00:08:02
She used to make wine. She was actually an employee there. And I
remember the girl that was one of the owners, she had an accent. I don't
remember her name, but it was shortly after that that they, Owen and
Audrey bought the place from her. Now Owen was actually a beer judge.
He, he knew beer.
Bixby:
I didn’t know that.
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
Link:
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Yeah. Now, I don't know about any accreditation. It certainly wasn't with
the AHA, but, he was labeled a beer judge.5 So yeah. I was a pretty good
beer judge myself from college days.
Downie:
00:08:45
Well, accreditation would have been maybe a little bit later because it was
Carter's era that, even home brewing was legal again. So, you really
couldn't probably do accredited judging until, you know, you'd had a few
years being legal again.
Link:
00:09:00
I don't remember when the AHA started, but I think the legalization was in
‘79. Yeah. And that's when the bill by Alan Cranston.6 Yeah.
Downie:
00:09:16
He signed it and Carter signed it in ‘78.
Link:
00:09:20
The US bill started by a Senator in Wisconsin.7
Downie:
00:09:28
And then everything winds up having to come down to state level and then
county level and city level.
Lorton:
00:09:33
But California was at the forefront of that kind of stuff. So. Yeah.
Downie:
00:09:40
And so Rich, you were telling Greg that you were the third QUAFF
president who was president number one and number two?
Link:
00:09:47
So, president number one was Greg Schwaller and so now I wasn't there.
So a lot of what I get is from Bob Whritner.
Lorton:
00:10:02
And I have an email from Greg Schwaller going the fact that your part of
that where he was, you know, kind of you're remembering what the
original, he was the one who came up with the name of QUAFF.
Bixby
Interesting.
Lorton:
And he was citing a verse from Poe, Edgar Allen Poe as the source. And
what they were doing is they were thinking, you know, all, most
homebrew clubs have some clever pun-related acronym. And, you know,
they felt that, well, QUAFF is, let's think of something that QUAFF sounds
like a beer-drinking term. So, let's come up with some words that fit that.
So that's where Quality Ale Fermentation Fraternity came from.
Unfortunately, Bob gave me some stuff that documented all of that. It was
like the originals. I gave it to Peter and I'm not sure if it still exists. 8 I meant
5
AHA is the American Homebrewers Association.
Cranston’s bill was specifically for California.
United States (Federal level).
8
Peter Zien
6
7
Transcribed by Ernest
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
to ask Peter when I last saw him, but you know, it actually has the legal
yellow pad where it has the names of the…
Downie:
00:11:17
Bixby:
Lorton:
Oh, you need to ask him.
00:11:20
Link:
Lorton:
Yeah. I have to ask Peter. Yeah. Peter Zien, [several people talking] you
know, I meant to ask him. Judith and I talked with Peter a couple of weeks
ago and I forgot then I [inaudible]. Peter's birthday party, I forgot.
That was a busy day.
00:11:41
Downie:
Lorton:
Is this is Peter Zien?
Yeah. And I'm hoping they still have it.
Yeah, I've still got the oral history to arrange with Peter and Vicky, so I'll
put that on my list to ask as well.
00:11:54
Yeah, I guess Greg Schwaller now, lives, I think at Three Rivers, which is
near Sequoia. At least that was where he was I think 2010 or so.
Link:
Okay.
Bixby:
Gosh, that's a long time ago, yeah.
Link:
00:12:09
I thought Bob, last I talked with Bob, he thought he was up Montana or
Wyoming or something like that, but who knows.
Lorton:
00:12:19
Yeah, I can send you the email that has that.
Downie:
00:12:20
That would be lovely, yeah, that'd be a real touchstone for QUAFF’s
history.
Lorton:
00:12:26
It would because I, I never met him…met Greg. Bob is, Rich and Bob or
someone
Bixby:
Who was after you?
Link:
After me? Skip.9
Lorton:
Who was before you?
9
Skip Virgilio.
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Link:
Paul Wesley.10 So I remember when QUAFF was starting because Owen
tried to get me to go to the meetings. At that time, I wasn't really
interested in, it wasn't all that interested in joining or being part of things.
So…
Bixby:
A loner type, huh.
Link:
Well yeah. But I do remember him telling me, you know, we're having a
meeting down at, it was Old Columbia.11 That's what everyone called it
back then. And it was before Chris really wanted to stress the Karl Strauss
part of it.12 And then I still didn't want to go. I mean, their beer wasn't all
that great. Why would I want to go all the way downtown?
Downie:
00:13:29
How much was gas a gallon then?
Link:
00:13:36
Yeah, yeah, 30 cents. But then, you know, like I said, Paul Wesley followed
Greg. And Paul lived out here in Lakeside, and then Owen and Audrey kept
working on me and working on me. And then finally they convinced me to
go to a meeting at Callahan's.13 At the original Callahan's, this was in 1990.
Bixby:
00:14:03
That's your first time you went?
Link:
00:14:09
Uh-huh. And, you know, after like two to three meetings, you know, Paul
pretty much recruited me to take over. In those days you needed
someone, you know. And so, he kind of felt that I was trustworthy and
knew some things. But the club at that time was, I mean we had it from,
most of the guys were, like I talked about earlier, the extract corn sugar
brewers who are really interested in making liquid alcohol for as cheap as
they could make it.
Link:
00:14:44
And cheap was like the number one priority, truly. And I'm not trying to
just make fun of these guys, but that was it. Yeah. They can make 10 cent
pints of beer, man, they were in heaven. But we also had guys like Vinnie
Cilurzo, and John Thomas and Bob Whritner and Greg Schwaller, some of
the guys who really knew what they were doing, you know. So that was
pretty cool. And we'd have a little corner and bring in beers and taste them
and give remarks and stuff. And that was all pretty cool. But there was a
great deal of the club at the time that was not interested in going beyond,
you know, the kit type mentality. And I was. In fact most of the guys had
never even heard of the AHA. That was kind of my goal is get involved with
the AHA more.
Wesley served as second QUAFF president.
Karl Strauss’ Old Columbia Brewing Company. Original location on Columbia St. San Diego.
12
Chris Cramer, co-founder of Karl Strauss Brewing Company.
13
Callahan’s Pub & Brewery on Mira Mesa Blvd, San Diego.
10
11
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
6
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Link:
00:15:39
And that was when we had our first club-only competition and it was a pale
ale and Whritner, Bob Whritner, was our representative and he got a
second place on the national level in that competition. That kind of lit
everyone up cause “Look, we do make good beer and we can get some
recognition, let's go for it.” And things got pretty exciting at that time and,
beer kinda got better. And you know, we had recently come across liquid
yeast, you know, a couple of years earlier, it seemed like it was ’87, ‘86,
something like that. So beer was getting much better and a lot more fun to
brew. I remember making great wort, just absolutely great man, this is the
best beer I've ever made. And then throwing in the packet of yeast and
when it comes out and like crap. It's just very disappointing. And then
Wyeast was the first pack of liquid yeast I remember.14 In smack packs.15
Lorton:
00:16:48
Is Bob still around here? Are you still in contact with him?
Link:
00:16:52
A little bit here and there. They spend, I'd say 90% of their time up in June
Lake, but they do have the place in Rancho Bernardo.
Lorton:
00:17:00
Yeah, I mean Bob would be a good guy to talk to you. I mean, he's really a
colorful guy. I think he's an ice scientist or something like that who would
go on cruises to research the Arctic. And alcohol is not permitted on a ship,
but you've got a bunch of scientists who are really creative, so yeah.
Bixby:
Better than prison brew.
Lorton:
Yeah. He would tell me about the breweries or the places to get beer in
Tromsø, Norway. You know, some of the story, and Bob is such a funny
guy. Somebody was talking about Bob at Peter's party too, it may have
been you.
Link:
00:17:50
Downie:
Bixby:
Yeah, it was probably me. We had dinner with them and Skip and Mary last
summer. Okay. About a year ago. Yeah, he's 80 years old now. He's getting
along a little slower as people do. Yeah.
Honestly, you can remember, remember what happened. That's it sounds
like he's probably, yeah. So he's definitely on my list of people to approach.
Mary Anne. When did you join QUAFF, you and Bix?
00:18:24
I think it was like ‘92 or so but I remember going to meetings at La Jolla
Brewing on Fay Street.16
Yeast laboratory.
Smack-pack yeast packaging contains an internal activator packet to break open before adding to the wort.
16
Fay Avenue, La Jolla.
14
15
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Link:
Yeah, we moved there. Because Callahan's was too slow, too small.
Bixby:
So you went from Callahan’s to La Jolla and then back to Callahan’s.
Link:
Yeah. And then the PB Brewhouse.17
Lorton:
00:18:48
I remember my first meeting was at PB Brewhouse, but it was there
because Skip was the brewer there and he was doing a tour. And that was
probably May or June of ‘94 because I was lucky enough to win best in
show for the AFC.18 And so they said, yeah, why don't you come to a
meeting? But I think the normal meeting place at that point was La Jolla
Brewing on Fay Street. Yeah.
Bixby:
00:19:21
That's where I first started. Yeah. That little back room. Isn't that where
you gave your slide presentation on?
Link:
00:19:26
No, the slide was at the expanded Callahan's. Well, when we first started at
Callahan's, it was just that one room and we couldn't close it off to the
public, you know, so we'd have our meeting and the public and it was not,
just not.
Downie:
Not when you are passing out beer.
Link:
Well, and the club started to grow. I mean we would have, you know, a lot
of nights we'd have 15 or 20 people, but then there was one year at the
Del Mar Fair where it got a lot of visibility and the next meeting there was
like 40 people and it was like standing room only. It's like, wow, we can't
do this anymore. And, and, and La Jolla Brewing Company was just opening
and they had a nice big back room. It's like October of 1990. And, so then
we moved there. They only lasted a year, a year and a half. And Callahan's
had expanded so they had a room that they could close off for us. So that
was nice. So we went back there and then, then PB Brew House had, but
we actually met in the brewery as I recall it. Didn't we?
Lorton:
00:20:48
I remember Skip. That first meeting, that was the only QUAFF meeting that
I went to that was PB Brew House. But Skip had a tour.
Link:
They weren't there very long.
Lorton:
No. And Skip was, he was the president at the time and you know, showing
how everything was done. That's the only, only time. And again, that was
May or June of 1994.
17
18
Pacific Beach Brewhouse, on Mission Boulevard, San Diego.
America’s Finest City home brewers competition. 1994 was the first year.
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Bixby:
Was Dion after Skip then?19
Link:
Yes.
Lorton:
I think Ted Newcomb.
Link:
Oh, Ted.
Bixby:
Oh, Ted. And then Skip then Dion?
Lorton:
Yeah. And then Todd.
Link:
I think Ted was a one year.
Lorton:
Yeah, I've got a list of who is president after from Skip on. So, when I get
home I'm now going to pull it out [inaudible].
Downie:
Wow. Yeah. That's so great. At what point would you say QUAFF actually
formalized, ‘cause you said you were kind of recruited into the presidency
and it sounds like maybe you kind of recruited Skip to be your relief at
some point.
Link:
It’s kind of still that way. [Laughter]
Bixby:
Are we really formalized?
Link:
What does that mean?
Downie:
Bylaws…
Lorton:
00:22:00
You know, Rich will go to the restroom. Okay quick. Let's decide on
president. Rich. Oh, it's unanimous. Come back from the restroom. “Hey
Rich, congratulations you’re president.”
Downie:
The moral there is don't leave the room.
Lorton:
Yeah. You know when I became president and Peter was the president, it
was Todd Fitzsimmons then Peter and then me. But it was always the case
as well. You know, Peter's kind of taking over the stuff that Todd was
doing. So Peter is kind of a natural guy for that and I think I kind of fell into
the same thing. And Harold Gulbransen was after me and so he got in there
and then Bob McKay.
19
Dion Hollenbeck.
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
Bixby:
00:22:25
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
My impression has always been, the president has always fallen into that
position. It's like, man…
Link:
I think there was one year.
Bixby:
willing to do the job to, to pick up, you know, to take up the reins and go
for it. And, and we've been very, very fortunate in my tenure. I mean, I
mean my time with QUAFF to have some really good people dedicated.
Link:
00:23:11
But there was one year where we had a vote at a club vote.
Bixby:
Oh you remember that, who was this then?
Link:
Well, I think that was Skip’s second term, but we dodged the bullet. And I
think that thought, cause I was, when I handed it off to Skip, you know, we
would have essentially closed board meetings and I said “I nominate Skip.”
And that was pretty much it. Yeah. Yeah. And then something came up
about voting for it, and it was hard to, hard to argue on that point, but we
did. But boy, there was something close. I remember that was something
that was averted.
Link:
00:24:05
Bixby:
Yeah, but since then I remember, I think when Todd was president, there
was some kind of czar-ish directive. [Laughter]
Czar-ish, it that what you said?
Lorton:
00:24:22
Well we, you know, when I was on the board from the time I was the
newsletter editor from ‘96 on and ‘til I became president, but it was always
a board decision on what the officers were going to be rather than, and we
would put it up to the meeting if, you know, the board has decided that
this should be the slate of officers. Does anybody have any objection or,
you know, I think, I can't recall if we actually said all those in favor, say aye
and everybody would go “Give me another beer, aye.” You know?
Downie:
00:24:56
Then everybody had an opportunity to say something, so it wasn't
completely closed or anything.
Lorton:
00:25:01
Well, and the other thing is that the people who were really interested in
how the club was running were the board members.
Bixby:
00:25:07
That's true. Yeah. No, that's a good statement. Yeah.
Downie:
A process of natural selection.
Bixby:
Yes, and those who are actually doing most of the work.
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Lorton:
I think that’s the way it continues now.
Bixby:
Yes, and we've tried to get more newer board members, we want QUAFF
to continue.
Downie:
Right.
Bixby:
And we've been throwing it out there over and over, you know, but people
are reluctant to, they have their own lives. This is not, you know, like any
group. It's a volunteer kind of position. So try to get some of these young
people, we have, we have several very great new ideas and so on. I love
that part. I just want it to continue. I love QUAFF so much.
Lorton:
You know, you haven't been a one of the senior officers.
Bixby:
Never, not yet.
Link:
[Showing photograph] So that was the original room at Callahan.
Downie:
That's wonderful.
Bixby:
Can I see that?
Lorton:
I’ve got to see that too.
Link:
And then they added on that section right there where they could actually
rope it off.
Lorton:
Yeah, I remember we had one meeting. There was a point at which we
were kind of, we kind of hit a minimum and I remember Harold Gulbransen
was giving a talk and it was in October and he was competing with the
World Series which was on the TV screen behind him.
Bixby:
Which was hard for him as one eye was probably on the Series and one eye
on the…That’s really great. You have a date on the back too?
Lorton:
This guy is much more…
Link:
I would say this is probably about 92-ish. This is not like the photos when
we were kids that had the date on the back or on the margins.
Downie:
20
00:26:44
Well of course I am trying to work with Lee at Callahan’s and he can
probably give me some dates. 20 I would hope he would remember QUAFF’s
presence.
Lee Doxtader, co-founder of Callahan’s and San Diego Brewing Company
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Bixby:
Was Lee around that long ago? Oh my, [another photograph] well that's…
Downie:
Chris with Karl Strauss.
Bixby:
Yeah. Yeah. I remember one of those is a beer dinners they had. I actually
sat at the table with Karl and his wife. It was kind of fun.
Bixby:
00:27:48
I think they still have the same chef.
Link:
You know, I think so.
Bixby:
Gunther.
Downie:
You even remember his name.
Bixby:
Good food!
Link:
I knew I had a picture.
Bixby:
Yeah. That's great.
Downie:
00:28:03
So. the pictures are wonderful. I mean that would be something that I
would be interested in digitizing, giving you copies of the digital files.
Link:
00:28:09
Most of those are pre-digital, so they're just going to be…
Downie:
Negatives floating around, if you still have the negatives.
Link:
They’re somewhere. Yeah, it's tough.
Downie:
00:28:22
It is. I'm going through my parents’ things and my mother was, you know, a
historian at heart and I actually, when I was emptying out the house, I
found up on the very highest shelf in the entry hall closet, so, of course
that's where the heat all rises. Six eight-millimeter films, pre-sound. My
parents' wedding day. My cousins, there's actually some of me, I took them
to ScanDiego and they were able to salvage pretty much everything and
digitize them. So, I have to give my family, you know, pictures, you know,
the films on a DVD and say, here you go. And if anybody, I filled in what I
knew what I could recognize and some of them I had to kind of
guesstimate the date saying, well, okay, I'm in there. So, I know that had to
be this year, but I'm not in that one and this cousin looks younger, so it was
probably a couple of years earlier. And I've asked the family, of course, you
know, probably none of them have actually stopped and taken the time to
look at the DVDs. If I put them online like in Dropbox and link them and
said, here, go look at these and you know, give me some feedback. They'd
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
probably do that. But you know, a lot of people don't have DVD players
even anymore.
Link:
DVD?
Downie:
Yeah, I do have the online digital files.
Link:
That’s our media now.
Downie:
Yeah, for me. I've got DVD player and stuff.
Bixby:
[to Lorton] Which one did you get?
Lorton:
Get Thee to a Nunnery. 21
Bixby:
I’m telling you, that is going to be one of my new favorites.
Link:
00:29:42
Did you try the English [inaudible]?
Lorton:
Oh, the Banksy?
Link:
No, the [inaudible].
Lorton:
No I didn’t.
Link:
What was it, something about all night or midnight or something. Down
Through the Night?
Bixby:
We'll wait for you if you go get a beer.
Loron:
I'm just going to say…
Link:
Well now you can talk about me…
Lorton:
Let me check on my record to see if I...
Link:
Quite frankly, there were a lot of QUAFF members at that time that didn't
like what I was doing and they stopped coming. But I think it was the right
thing to do to make QUAFF more....
Bixby:
What years were you in?
Link:
I was president in 1990. So for two years.
21
Beer name.
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Lorton:
Yeah. I had the same experience.
Bixby:
I must have this come in on the end of you. I don't remember being
displeased.
Link:
Well, I think people like us, we're happy with the direction it’s going. But
the guys that were making the 10 cent pints, were not.
Bixby:
Oh, there is a different mentality. When you talk to people across the,
yeah, it's a different mentality.
Lorton:
00:30:52
Bixby:
Lorton:
I mean there was a group, they were complaining, “Oh, you guys are too
focused on competition.”
But it was, I never thought it was, so much as focus on competitions is
focusing on bettering your craft is what it was. And so the competitions
were feedback. I always looked at it in a totally different way.
00:31:14
Well, it depends on your perspective ‘cause I agree totally with you.
Link:
But, there were a lot of members even after the exodus in my period, there
were still a lot of members thought we were too fixated on competitions.
And I would just tell them don't worry about it. Yeah.
Downie:
You don't have to participate. It can be a goal for some.
Bixby:
Yeah, yeah.
Link:
Just learn from it. Come and enjoy it. What did you want?
Bixby:
Another Nun.
Lorton:
00:31:59
Let me know what that British beer was Rich that you said if I had…
Link:
Oh, it’s Down through the Night, a British Strong.
Lorton:
Oh okay, now I haven’t had that.
Bixby:
You know, I live so close, I should have had everything here.
Lorton:
You know, getting drunk has no appeal to me.
Bixby:
No, no, no, no, no. You know, that's not the point.
Lorton:
I know a lot of people who, “Oh yeah,” like get, well, I mean, but I'm not one
of them.
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Bixby:
You get drunk, you can't taste another good beer.
Lorton:
Yeah, I get headaches the next morning. You know, if it's too much, the bed
starts spinning around.
Bixby:
It’s been a long time since that happened.
Lorton:
I was just going to say, that's when I was a wine person.
Downie:
00:32:34
So, Mary Anne, tell me about Mead Day and the celebration at your house.
Bixby:
00:32:40
You know I cannot remember the first time I did it. You’re kind of, like have
some trust you know, in your reminisces.
Lorton:
00:32:48
The unfortunate thing is a lot of my memory is actually in the newsletters
that I did. And I don't know if my newsletters predate mead day and I'm
trying to remember where else we were. I told Judith that Frank Golbeck
came to one of our mead days a few years ago.
Bixby:
But I'd had them before Frank came along.
Lorton:
They were quite, I don't know how, I don't remember. It just seems like a
long time we have done this. And it's the national mead day, which is the
first Saturday in August, which is kind of hot in El Cajon usually, which is an
understatement. But sometimes it rained a couple times, but other than
that…
Lorton:
I told her about Death Mead Day.
Downie:
Yeah. I heard about the Death Mead and anything called Death Mead Day
is definitely a must attend.
Lorton:
What kind of alcoholic beverage do you want to not drink a whole lot of
when its hot?
Bixby:
I know it. [Laughter]
Link:
00:33:54
At least it’s not Imperial Stout Day.
Lorton:
It’s stronger than Imperial Stout.
Bixby:
It's been fun over the years. And, we had one guy who was, owned the
Downtown Johnny Brown's, for a while and he made mead cocktails and
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
brought them to Mead Day.22 So even that was fun. We has meads from all
over the place.
Lorton:
00:34:19):
Yeah, we started Mead Day probably when AHA started recognizing it. It
wouldn’t surprise me because we were into meads back in the early 2000s,
late 1990s.23
Bixby:
I should check on the original when AHA started that cause they used to
have an official recipe. So, it was like, okay, my garage wasn't so full at the
time. So we used to make mead in the garage, which kept all the mess and
the stickiness right there. And the, and I would…
Lorton:
The bees.
Bixby:
…clean out. Well we did have that.
Lorton:
When you make mead, if you do it outside, you get bees.
Bixby:
Oh yeah.
Downie:
There's a cautionary tale.
Link:
You come in the garage, you get, come on, really? Get outta here.
Lorton:
Yeah, they like honey.
Bixby:
But there was an official recipe and I tried to encourage people, you know,
this is the official recipe we're going to do. And since I was hosting it hard
for me to make it, but I'm trying to get other people to do it and we, we
had some pretty good meads.
Lorton:
Yeah. Well, there's always…
Bixby:
Hot or not. I mean it was never blasting.
Lorton:
Yeah. There's always, always more meads. You end up with a whole bunch
leftover when we’re done.
Bixby:
Yeah, because I tried to collect not just the ones on my travels, but some of
the competition meads, even the ones where when we had the homebrew
competitions. Then they were like unknown cause I never got the printout
to say number whatever is such and such. So we just opened them. I still
have a few for this year from last year’s competitions.
22
23
Downtown Johnny Brown’s is a sports bar in downtown San Diego that was an early supporter of craft beer.
According to the Bay Area Society of Homebrewers, the first AHA Mead Day was 2002.
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
Lorton:
00:35:57
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Yeah. So, you know, if we have a, if there's a competition, you know, the
idea is submit two bottles. If yours is the best in your category and there's
three to five categories, then that best in that category will go on and
compete for the best of show. But everything else is just a second bottle,
looking for a home.
Bixby:
[Inaudible] was my home for a long time.
Downie:
There's the advantage to having it at your house.
Bixby:
Well I didn't drink them, I saved them so we could share. Cause you never,
you didn't know what they were.
Lorton:
At your house. It was better than being at my house.
Bixby:
Oh maybe so.
Lorton:
But yeah. And it was good because I think at the time, and we’re still doing
this. There are quite a few people who are interested in being mead judges
and it's good to look at “Well, this mead isn't quite so good for this reason.
It's too hot and too, you know, too alcoholic”
Bixby:
Or no flavor.
Lorton:
Yeah. Things like that. So, but yeah, you know, I'm trying to remember if it
was at someplace besides your place when we first got started.
Bixby:
00:37:11
I don't know. I can't remember that. That's too far off. But I know I did it
because Bix was into making beer and mead making was similar to wine
making. So, it interested me. And so, I started making mead.
Link:
With your daughter?
Bixby:
You know, actually I, I know I did it before, but the only mead my daughter
and I ever made was in 2000 there's one bottle left. I have no idea how it
tastes. I hate to open it without her. If she could ever come to Mead Day, I
would open it. But she helped formulate the recipe.
Downie:
00:37:54
So good. Rich, have you ever done mead or cider?
Link:
00:37:56
Yeah, I did a few. It wasn't something that I really wanted to do much of
because I didn't drink a lot of mead. It was tough for me to, it was just
tough to drink that much mead. Yeah.
Bixby:
00:38:15
Are you a wine maker? I mean a wine drinker at all? You are?
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
Link:
00:38:20
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Yeah.
Bixby:
You are.
Lorton:
I am not.
Link:
It is a lot easier for me to drink a bottle of wine than it was for mead. Mead
was just too much.
Lorton:
00:38:28
Yeah. I'm kind of the same way. You know, I go through periods when, “Oh,
that mead really tastes good. I need to make some.” And then I, you know,
I've made a whole bunch and okay and I've got to get rid of these bottles,
you know, and…
Bixby:
00:38:45
No, I agree. When your palate has tasted so many things, I've gone through
stages too. So you know, maybe I'm into a hop mood and maybe I'm not,
you know, or something like that.
Lorton:
00:38:57
Well, and for me, I have a beer with dinner and there aren't many foods
that don't go well with beer, but there are a lot of foods that don't go well
with wine or mead.
Bixby:
00:39:09
That's interesting. Cause I remember when all this pairing stuff, remember
when they were into the pairing and the food and the beer dinners and so
on. And that was one of the things I heard right from the beginning. The
guys, the chefs, saying not the drinkers, but the chefs would say, yeah, they
had an easier time with the beer.
Lorton:
00:39:30
Yeah. What kind of wine or me goes best with a hamburger or what kind of
pizza goes best with wine?
Downie:
00:39:40
Well, I have to say when I was in the Craft Beer Expo last September and
did the chocolate and beer pairing with Bill Sysak. Saturday morning at
9:00 AM, I'm sitting there with chocolate and beer in front of me going,
“This is something real wrong, cause I'm not that big a beer drinker.” But
Bill made the argument that the carbonation in beer actually because it
cuts through the fatty of the foods, makes for a better drink with any food.
Link:
00:40:10
That’s why it’s so much better with cheese than wine is, you know, the
whole wine thing is wine and cheese. Well no, it doesn't work as well as
beer.
Downie:
00:40:18
And with wine, until you get into this whole, you've got red, you've got
white, you've got these very distinct strong categories where with beer
there seems to be a, because of the hops and things, there seem to be a
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BIXBY, AND GREG
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more consistent thread through it. So, it just seems to be more all-purpose
maybe, I am not explaining it very well.
Lorton:
00:40:36
Well, I mean there's so many, I mean beer is such a much more diverse
than wine.
Link:
00:40:42
I've had arguments with wine makers about that. Oh you know, wine does
this. So there's so many variations. And I said, okay, let's just talk about
beer, the different kinds of malts, the different kinds of hop, different kinds
of yeast. It's like infinite. Yeah, it's, it's truly infinite. Wine. Like you said,
you got your reds and whites, you got blends and stuff, but they only got
about five or six different categories. Really.
Bixby:
00:41:12
That was fun for me to watch. The homebrewing community really affect
what we drink now because the guys had no limits. And so, we had people
making beer with Jolly Ranchers or something from the grocery store,
cereal bins, or something like that.24 And then these ideas just kind of, I
think progress and what the creativity is, was part of the whole thing.
That's what I love. And then of course the gadgetry, I was in love with the
gadgetry. Oh my gosh you guys…
Link:
There were a lot of engineers and scientists that brew.
Bixby:
It was beautiful. That's what I love. I did love that part. That so much.
Lorton:
Bixby:
24
25
00:41:56
Yeah. And you see that in commercial brewing now. I mean, if you look at
the new things that the brewers are making, you know, I went to a golf and
beer festival a couple of weeks ago or a couple of months ago, eight
breweries where there, you know, Stone, Mother Earth, Mike Hess,
Latitude 33, five of those eight had a citrus IPA. You know, three years ago
how many citrus IPAs were out there? Ballast Point was there with
Grapefruit Sculpin. Latitude 33 had their Blood Orange IPA. Stone had
Tangerine IPA, but three years ago, how many citrus IPAs were out there,
and then all these new things are coming along. Man, that Blood Orange
IPA from Latitude 33 is so good. Went up to Double Peak a couple of weeks
ago and came back to a Japanese restaurant, a sushi bar, and they had, you
know, Asahi, Kirin, Sapporo and this “blood orange stuff that we can't get
rid of.”25 “Oh, I'll take that one. Is that from Latitude 33?” “I don't know I’ll
check. Yes, it's from Latitude 33.”
Interesting.
Hard candy in intense fruit flavors.
Double Peak Park in San Marcos, California.
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BIXBY, AND GREG
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Downie:
00:43:17
Interesting that they wouldn't. Of course when somebody goes to a sushi
restaurant, they probably want to drink culturally appropriate beer.
Lorton:
00:43:24
This was in San Marcos, not far from where, you know, Homebrew Mart,
whatever, Beer and Wine Crafts was located.
Bixby:
It’s San Diego County after all.
Lorton:
Oh man, it went so well, I had tempura so…
Link:
Are you grasping the hops nowadays? I ‘cause we used to have…
Lorton:
Yeah.
Link:
You know, arguments. I really mean ‘cause I would hop my beers.
Bixby:
You two would?
Link:
Well exceedingly hoppy and you know, and it was way too hoppy for Greg.
Lorton:
I would like a beer with a little bit of diacetyl in it.
Link and Bixby:
Oh no!
Lorton:
A little bit is a lot. This guy, if you open a beer with that in it in the room…
Bixby:
He said it a long time ago and it sticks in my mind.
Link:
I'm across the room going alright, who opened that up? Get that outta
here!
Lorton:
Yeah, you and Skip. Well I normally like Belgian beers. I like non-hoppy
beers, but if I'm going to have a pizza, it's got to be an IPA. you know, I
really like a hoppy beer with pizza or hot chili.
Downie:
Spicy.
Lorton:
Yeah. Yeah. I haven't found a wine yet that goes well with those, but, and I
haven't looked real hard either. But you know, for a beer like for a food like
pizza or chili and I really kinda want a hoppy beer.
Link:
Chiantis, the Sangiovese with Pizza Hut. [Laughter]
Bixby:
There you go.
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Lorton:
Oh man. Your masculinity is just gone into that. [Laughter] Yeah. I stopped
being a wine person as soon as I discovered homebrewing. I haven't had a
wine in at least a year.
Bixby:
Oh, I’m afraid I am an all-purpose drinker.
Downie:
Since you have made wine…
Bixby:
It depends on it, whatever my mood is. Sometimes I am in the mood for
hops…
Link:
I don't discriminate against any alcohol.
Bixby:
Nor do I.
Lorton:
I don't have any wine in my house.
Bixby:
A good single malt scotch sometimes that’s what you want.
Lorton:
I’ve got a bottle of Laphroaig and Balmore in my refrigerator. I like them
cool. But, uh, no wine.
Bixby:
Oh dear.
Link:
00:45:45
So where did we leave off on the QUAFF?
Downie:
00:45:48
My questions were fairly generic here, so I'm just kind of looking. You've
talked about the growth of the membership, which I think really says
something. I do have other QUAFF past-presidents like Peter Zien to talk to
yet, but it sounds like you are still members of a very strong supportive
community and you know, you're very open minded too, except for that
one thing that you've talked about that you could smell it across the room.
It sounds like you're a super smeller.
Lorton:
Diacetyl, it’s butter, it’s buttery aroma.
Downie:
Okay.
Lorton:
Really good.
Bixby:
For me, it’s skunky. I’ll get the skunkiness out of anything, I hate it.
Link:
Great on popcorn. Not so good in beer.
Lorton:
But I mean Rich is one of these people that is, yeah…
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Bixby:
00:46:37
You know the thing you said about supportive, I think the key that I've
always found with QUAFF. Supportive, not just in the, oh, who needs help
brewing, but just in other ways too. When my husband died, I knew if I
needed something…I'm usually, I'm a loner and I'll do it myself kind of
thing. But I knew if I really needed something, I could call on somebody and
I had many offers. So, I think that's, that's what it became, well, I mean, I
said it in Sheldon’s movie.26 QUAFF to me was always a family, like a
second family.
Lorton:
00:47:16
I, then one thing that Rich brings is, I mean you've been all over the world
tasting beer and you know, you can talk about places in Brussels to go if
you want a good beer. Places, you know…
Bixby:
The knowledge you mean?
Lorton:
Yeah. Just, well experiencing those beers at the source. You know, for me,
my favorite beer city is Bamberg, Germany.
Bixby:
You like those malt beers.
Lorton:
I like it. You know, the majority of the breweries there don't make smoked
beers, but you know, they all make good beer and but yeah, I do love the
smoked beer. I mean almost as much as buttery beer.
Downie:
00:48:03
Where do you stand on smoked beer Rich?
Link:
00:48:06
I like it. Okay. Oh yeah. You do have common ground there somewhere.
Lorton:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Link:
I mean there isn't a beer style that I hate unless they put cucumber in it.
[Laughter]
Bixby:
00:48:22
I might have to agree with you on that. Like cucumber water.
Link:
00:48:25
I haven't figured that one out yet.
Downie:
That does sound like it would be a mistake.
Link:
Yeah. But I see it on the shelves now.
Bixby:
Oh dear. Oh you do?
The movie referred to is SUDS County, USA, (2012), produced by Sheldon Kaplan about the San Diego craft beer
industry.
26
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BIXBY, AND GREG
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Link:
Yeah. Not kidding.
Lorton:
I'm trying to remember if at that beer festival I had one with cucumber in
it. In the competitions, I usually like to judge what we call weird beers,
which is fruit beers, spice or vegetable beers, specialty. And occasionally
you run into a cucumber. But I've had some cucumber beers lately. They
weren't bad, but cucumber is not my favorite. I guess that's a vegetable I
don’t know and uh, yeah, it's not, I've never made one with cucumber in it.
Bixby:
00:49:05
I like cucumbers but not in water and probably would not like it in beer.
Link:
00:49:09
People like it. And that's fine.
Bixby:
I’ve had asparagus beer that I thought was…
Link:
WOW. wow.
Bixby:
No, I know when I saw it the guys were saying this is at GABF and so, ”You
have to try this, you have to try that.”27 Oh, okay. And then it was done
perfectly. It's like how do you get asparagus in a beer and not have it like
be yucky or something? Although it did have the same effect after the fact,
as eating asparagus, unfortunately. [laughter]
Lorton:
Thank you. TMI.28 I’ve never had an asparagus beer. Or spinach
Bixby:
It’s interesting, the different beers, you know, you run into at GABF when
you're, when you're working in the back with all the beers. A job. I like.
Lorton:
Oh wow.
Link:
00:49:58
Bixby:
Link:
I remember an early QUAFF meeting and the guy brought in a beer that he
brewed based on some historical reading. He had dug up with bananas.
And he brought it up and we're tasting it. I'm going, “Oh my God. You
know, I've done everything I can to get banana tastes and flavors out of my
beers. Why would you intentionally put it in?”
That’s really interesting.
00:50:28
Historical significance? Okay. Don’t like it.
Lorton:
I've heard that.
Bixby:
Not on that Sumerian tablet, I’m sure.
27
28
Great American Beer Festival, Denver Colorado.
Too much information.
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BIXBY, AND GREG
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Downie:
A sacrifice for historical research. Well, there actually is in ancient Greece,
if a woman was having trouble nursing a child after birth, there was a
recipe involving worms crushed up in beer to correct the situation.
Bixby:
Oh, that's interesting. They could have minused the worms. I'm sure she
would have been happier.
Downie:
Yeah. Maybe. Maybe the worms were to keep her from drinking too much.
I don't know, but…
Bixby:
Maybe that's a good point.
Lorton:
00:51:08
You know, probably 15 years ago we were talking about cock ale. Randy
Barnes made a beer with chicken in it and it wasn't very good. He said,
well, okay, I made the cock ale and Randy, he's the guy who's the vice
president of educational services with a community college district.
Bixby:
He’s the dean or something.
Lorton:
Yeah, he's the kind of guy who would do it. He's the guy who you'd never
expect is a professional, if you ever ran into him.
Bixby:
That's right.
Lorton:
If, but I, yeah and he’s really…
Bixby:
Creative.
Lorton:
And he's really smart and with a sense of humor that just would never
stop.
Link:
00:51:51
Jim Koch told me about doing that once their little brewery back in
Boston.29 A pilot brewery. It wasn't so good.
Downie:
Yeah, it doesn't…
Link:
Throwing in chickens into the…
Bixby:
I can't even, why would you even consider that?
Downie:
Any meat product does not sound like it would…
Owner of Boston Beer Company which makes Sam Adams beer. This is a bit of sarcasm in referencing “their little
brewery.”
29
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
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Link:
There is some historical significance about it, which I couldn't even grasp.
Lorton:
Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, that's a good, I don't know.
Link:
Cause you know he based a lot of things on historical significance.
Lorton:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bixby:
Oh, I am going to have to read up on that now. Chicken and beer and see
what I get.
Lorton:
00:52:34
Cock Ale. Ask Randy. He would probably recall.
Bixby:
Why he would do, I don't know about the historical, maybe he would.
Lorton:
Well yeah, I can't remember how we got onto that, but it was enough that
it kind of sustained itself for a couple months.
Downie:
00:52:50
That's something I'm seeing here in your stories is the fact that you're
supportive of each other, that you've kept in touch with each other, that
you've had fun.
Bixby:
00:53:03
Oh my gosh. I don't know about these guys, but I had a blast probably, you
know, I'm, I married a guy who was kinda quiet, not a social kind of person.
In fact, even now when I'm thinking about him after a couple, you know, a
year and a half, it's like I look up, you know, Asperger's in adults. I go, that
sounds like my man. No, he just was not a social kind of guy, but QUAFF,
there was a home for him in QUAFF and everybody seemed to accept him
and he felt, you know, quote end quote loved there, whatever you want to
call it. That was just the right place to be. I mean, it just, for us as geeky,
nerdy, whatever you want to call us, we fit.
Lorton:
00:53:45
Well, and the other thing is that, you know, one of the reasons I really like
making beer as opposed to making wine is that when I was married, I had a
brother-in-law who was a real wine snob and he was a spirits snob, and
you know, it was, it just grated on me. And you know, beer people aren't
like that. Well, you know, most beer people aren't.
Bixby:
00:54:13
But do you think so? I don't think they are.
Link:
There are some, but yeah, there's you know…
Lorton:
There are a few that say, well, I'm not going to drink that.
Bixby:
00:54:23
Even the women who drink wine a lot, they’ll drink beer now and then.
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Link:
00:54:27
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Any, aspect of, like cheese or hamburger, anything. People are purist
people. Yeah.
Lorton:
You have people in QUAFF who will say, “I'm not gonna drink a Ballast
Point beer because they're owned by Constellation Brands. Or I'm not
going to buy a…”, you know, yeah.
Downie:
Well, that can go back to when gas hit a dollar a gallon. People saying, “I'm
not buying any more gas. Well, I'd like to see you try.”
Lorton:
00:54:56
That’s the nice thing, in beer is a much more community, you know, it,
it's…
Bixby:
00:55:01
I'm not sure what it is across the country ‘cause I don't know anywhere
else, but San Diego and I just feel they've been cooperative and giving.
Lorton:
00:55:12
I think it’s like that in most places, yeah.
Link:
Mm-hum.
Bixby:
00:55:14
I mean, I know when I've traveled all these years with Bix, we always of
course, stopped at breweries nearby, right. If not aimed towards them
specifically. That if you start talking to the guys, and I always like just sitting
at the bar talking to who brews this. And then pretty soon somebody
comes out. Oh, let me show you my tanks. And it's usually, like Peter, and
like AleSmith started out with dairy tanks or something and I, and I had to
weld this and I had to do that and I go, Oh yeah. So that's just a different…
Lorton:
00:55:50
It's like that all over the country. It, and it was funny because when I was
teaching business classes that you'd have marketing people who didn't
know beer saying, well, you know, there's not a lot of cooperation among
competitors in an industry. And I say, well, you need to look at the brewing
industry because you know, like, when there was a hop shortage eight
years ago, you know, some brewers were giving hops to others or selling at
a low price to allow them to continue. Sam Adams was selling hops, at
their, you know, their costs as opposed to what the price was. You know,
when there was the hop shortage.
Bixby:
Oh, cause they had the option.
Link:
Well, they bought futures, future contracts.
Lorton:
I mean, look at all the homebrew clubs. I was looking at the names of some
of those clubs, like Brewers United for Real Potables in Virginia, the
Greater Denver Yeast Infection and you know, Maltose Falcons and, you
know, playing on the Maltese Falcon.
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BIXBY, AND GREG
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Bixby:
That’s a good one.
Lorton:
There’s Foam on the Brain here. And you know, QUAFF there, there's so
many funny names that Strange Brew in Oregon, you know, and in all
kinds, Urban Knaves of Grain, in Chicago. Yeah, I mean there's so many
funny names, so. Yeah. And that's because that's how brewers are. They,
you know, Hey, you know, this is fun. You know, we're not taking it too
seriously. We are, you know, really studying, brewing, but it's for fun, you
know.
Bixby:
Seems you know, that'd be a good lesson all over.
Link:
00:57:42
Lorton:
I think is just more of a social fun drink than spirits.
If I'm going to go to a place where I'm going to have a drink with other
people and I have to go home, I'm going to have a beer. I'm not going to
have a, you know, scotch on the rocks, you know, I'm not gonna to do that,
you know?
Bixby:
00:58:01
Well, there is a group that would do that. You know, what do they think
about, you know, my martini for dinner and scotch after or…
Lorton:
00:58:11
Beer seems like it's a much more sociable drink that let's go have a beer.
Bixby:
More for the common man and we're all just common man. I don’t know, I
don’t know what the deal is.
Lorton:
You know, maybe a lower alcohol and a…
Link:
Yes, lower alcohol. You get a pint. You can drink for a half hour or more
and still drive home.
Lorton:
Even if your home is like a mile away or so.
Link:
Yeah, right up there.
Bixby:
00:58:35
Mine is max 10 minutes. And that's taking the slow road here.
Lorton:
00:58:42
Well, yeah, I was gonna say when I went to Mead Day last year, I came
here first and then I got on the road and I was driving and some guy’s really
slow SUV or something or a Leer truck. Oh, it's Teresa and Rich. Oh, they're
going to the same place I’m going.
Link:
00:59:03
It was after a day at Mead Day we decided to stop here. Yeah.
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Lorton:
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Well I did it before, which was probably a little bit of a mistake. Yeah.
Downie:
00:59:15
Well, one final thing I'd like to ask about…the increase of women in
brewing, are you seeing that reflected in the membership in QUAFF?
Link:
00:59:28
I can't talk to that cause I haven't been to a QUAFF meeting.
Bixby:
I would, I would say no. I mean I belong to SUDS.
Downie:
The San Diego sorority.
Bixby:
Yeah. Yeah. And those women are not involved in commercial brewing.
They are, it's not like the Pink Boots, it's more that they want to do their
own thing. They know what they're doing and like, they do know what
they're doing in spite of what you guys might think, <interjected denials
from Link and Lorton> these girls do know what they're doing. In fact, I
was, you know, it's really interesting cause when Juli first, Juli Goldenberg,
first came up with the idea for this group, she talked at a QUAFF meeting
and I said, “Oh shoot, you know, I grew up in the 60s we'd marched for
equal rights, we burned our bras, we did all this kind of stuff.30 And why do
we want to separate, you know, why do we want it something separate?”
And Harold, I know I mentioned that to Harold, he goes, why don’t you just
get involved in that? Why don't you see what they're all about? Cause
something, I dunno what it was that he saw. So I thought. Okay. And I went
and I was really impressed because they knew what they wanted to do. He
knew about brewing, they had been brewing, they just wanted a group
that wasn't going to be intimidating. And I went to a talk when we had our
last <inaudible> conference here was in 2015 and it was about women.
And that whole idea was a panel discussion on, I thought it was absolutely
excellent cause there were groups of women from different women's
groups across the country talking about that whole idea. And one other
woman my age, as she appeared to be, got up and said, “Why do we want
to be separated” and I go, “Oh gosh, that's what I voiced.”
Bixby:
01:01:39
But then the group panel kind of, you know, said because when we do stuff
with the guys they want to take over, you know, it's a natural…
Link:
You’re a minority. It's tougher.
Bixby:
Thank you very much.
Lorton:
Well, no, no true.
30
San Diego Suds Sorority, a women-only home brewer group formed within QUAFF. AKA SDSS (pronounced Suds).
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Bixby:
In the brewing community. Yes. Not in life. Okay, that's true. So it's like
what do we know about the science or the whole art of brewing? And they
said this way, you know, we have this, this separateness that we can kind
of teach each other and have this open kind of a... And one of the ladies
said, “All guys were asking if they could come and join. Yes, you can come
and be part of it, but you have to sit over there and be eye candy.”
<laughter>
Link:
And don’t talk.
Bixby:
Yeah. And if we need something lifted.
Downie:
I was going to say there might be something of the chivalry aspect where
that's big as, you're a little woman and let me help you with that.
Bixby:
But I thought that was a very interesting topic and it was pertinent too.
And I, since I joined the SDSS and have been part of that, I've been totally
impressed with the beers that come out of there. And the girls, they're
just, they're fun.
Lorton:
01:02:59
Yeah. Well, if you look at who won this year at International Beer Festival, I
mean Liz Chism is the brewer at Council.31 She's the one who made the
beer that won. And…
Bixby:
01:03:11
it's nice that her husband Curtis really makes a point of that is not, he's not
intimidated. So for me he has a lot of…
Lorton:
01:03:20
Well it was a little bit of a mind change too for me that, ‘cause I thought
Curtis was the brewer.
Bixby:
01:03:29
I knew from the beginning.
Lorton:
01:03:30
He clarified that with me. That Liz is the one who brews, she's the one who
makes the recipes.
Bixby:
So that's very impressive. She's very good at…
Lorton:
Oh yeah. Yeah. I've judged with both of them and she definitely, I mean it
was clear that she really understands.
Bixby:
31
32
01:03:46
I don’t know, I don't see, I mean I don't know what Pink Boots says.32 I
know there's women in the industry, but as far as home brewing, I don't
see a big enough presence in QUAFF. And I don't know if it's intimidation. I
San Diego International Beer Festival. Council Brewing Company in San Diego.
Pink Boots Society, an organization for women and non-binary individuals in the fermentation industries.
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don't think so. I don't, I think it's like what's more important in your life?
What's going on? Do you need to…
Link: ;
The time that you have available, its pretty easy to go order a beer.
Bixby:
You know, a guy is going to go out, that's his thing. You know, where a
woman might say I got, especially if she has kids and then she's got a job
and then she's got a house and I'm sorry guys. But it's still that way you're
as the female, you're still the one that, because it's your nest and it's, and
that's okay. It's just, you know, when I was growing up it's like gender
equality, course, you know, I will always be for financial equality, but you
know, these days there is no gender equality. We are different and that's
okay. And once we get past that then we can go on.
Lorton:
01:04:53
Well, you know, before the Industrial Revolution, women were the ones
who made beer. You know, that was part…
Bixby:
01:05:00
That way before, cause you guys were doing the, catching those
mammoths and whatever else you guys, you know.
Lorton:
01:05:09
So you know, that was their job. I think. Yeah, it's unfortunate. I think that,
you know, there is this, still you know, homebrewing is still predominantly
a male kind of thing. The other thing that I think is surprising, and I didn't
realize this until after I'd started all grain brewing is I'm essentially cooking,
you know? Yeah. Here I am in the kitchen, slaving over a hot stove.
<laughter> I'm cooking. So, yeah. And you know, and I realize, I'm creating
recipes thinking, okay... <brief interruption by the server.>
Downie:
You did want your crowler. Don’t forget.
Bixby:
Oh that’s right, cause I'm going to the meeting tomorrow.
Lorton:
Oh, and for Mead Day, I went to a new meadery last week in Vista.
Bixby:
Which one?
Lorton:
Twisted Horn.
Bixby:
I've heard of that. How was it?
Lorton: Yeah, they had some good meads. I'm waiting for Billy to open his
meadery.33
Bixby:
33
Me too.
Billy Beltz, owner of Lost Cause Meadery.
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
30
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�RICH LINK, MARIANNE
BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Lorton:
…and he's going to be in Miramar. That's going to be something.
Link:
What’s the name of it?
Lorton:
Lost Cause.
Link:
Isn’t there another meadery just opened there?
Lorton:
Well, Twisted Horn. Oh, it's Serendipity Cider is there.
Bixby:
He’s in the same spot is as...
Lorton:
And I think he's been having some regulatory problems, but there are four
meaderies. There's also one called Mediocrity.
Bixby:
01:06:51
Yeah. And then the Bronto group guys.
Lorton:
Oh, I haven't heard that one.
Bixby:
Yeah, they're not making good stuff. Mediocrity is okay.
Lorton:
I have not tried theirs.
Bixby:
They're like up in there. They're okay.
Link:
Are they like mediocre? <laughter>
Bixby:
I don't know why somebody would choose that name.
Lorton:
We were talking about how about Black Plague as a name for a brewery?34
Link:
Yeah.
Bixby:
I'm not sure where these guys come up with this stuff, but…
Lorton:
01:07:18
Well, Twisted Horn is a big Viking thing. And they're in the area with all the
Vista breweries.
Bixby:
Were they on the sweet side or no, is Viking sweet?
Lorton:
No, they were semi-sweet. But they had, you know, they had like, it was
posted Horn Mead and Cider and I only tried the meads but they had
probably six meads to choose from. The one I liked the best was a
34
Black Plague Brewing Company, opened in Oceanside in Jully 2017.
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
blueberry melomel, but they had various collections. I'll bring some, I'll
stop by there and get a small growler to bring by. But yeah, on Lost Cause, I
mean when they get situated there's going to be five breweries and
meaderies literally across the street from each other.35
Bixby:
And sake.
Lorton:
Okay. Yeah. Cause I mean Two Kids, Align, what’s that, Thunderhawk? And
there’s another one, Projector?
Bixby:
I know.
Downie:
There's Protector.
Link:
Protector. That’s the one, they're not a meadery?
Lorton:
I don't think they are.
Bixby:
Protector. Now see that's not one I have heard of. I can't keep up. These
guys are moving too fast.
Lorton:
01:08:32
Well yeah, I've got to talk with my son cause my son likes to make mead
and…
Bixby:
01:08:38
Oh, his son made the best. I'm sorry, I'm sorry Greg, but his bouchet was
wonderful.
Lorton:
Bouchet is a mead that's made from caramel from sugar that's been, or
honey that's been carmelized.
Downie:
Ooh.
Bixby:
01:08:55
And you know I tasted one at Mike Buck’s. Mike Buck made one that was
really good too.
Lorton:
Yeah. I made one. But it was kind of underdone.
Bixby:
Yeah, your son's was…
Lorton:
Yeah, he made a good one. It was distinctive.
Bixby:
I can definitely remember one. Mine just tasted really good at the
beginning, getting at all those bubblegum flavors and all that. And then it
just dissipated. Okay. That's not non distinct.
35
The street referred to is Miralani Drive in San Diego.
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Lorton:
Right. Unfortunately, mine is gone, long gone, so I don't know what…
Bixby:
Mine's gone too.
Lorton:
That tastes like. But yeah, that area, that Miralani Drive is…
Bixby:
I know and it's getting…
Link:
01:09:38
Oh, they're all organic.36 Organic.
Lorton:
Okay.
Downie:
Yeah. I was just looking at them last night.
Bixby:
Oh dear. So what’s not organic about honey?
Lorton:
True.
Link:
They’re not a meadery, they’re a brewery.
Bixby:
Oh. Oh.
Downie:
And probably the biggest challenge is organic hops.
Bixby:
01:10:02
Oh, that makes sense. So is anybody doing that locally? Organic hops? I
mean, how many local hops growers do we have? We have Star B…37
Lorton:
Well, I would guess I met with a guy from Star B one time and we were
talking about you know, meads, but you know, it wouldn't surprise me. 38
And there's an article in West Coaster I think this month about Star B also.
Bixby:
Is there?
Lorton:
Yeah. Get the West Coaster here.
Bixby:
Is it in there?
Lorton:
01:10:34
Yeah. Okay. But yeah, you know, I think one of the interesting things is, you
know, looking at businesses and that's one thing that I've been trying to
Referring to Protector Brewery.
Star B is a ranch and hop farm in Ramona, California.
38
Probably referring to Eric March who was an owner.
36
37
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
study a lot is you know, what's the factors lead to success in business. And
you know, we see that, okay, apparently Lightning is selling all their stuff.39
Bixby:
01:11:01
Yeah. I don't know what, Jim, I think is too academic or…40
Lorton:
No marketing at all.
Bixby:
Yeah. I think, I mean, he was a great brewer and all that and I loved it. He
was a great guy.
Lorton:
01:11:11
But did you see Intergalactic is looking at maybe getting it, you need to get
the West Coaster.41
Downie:
01:11:18
And the Intergalactic website is saying that they are definitely taking a
different direction, whether it's to close or…
Bixby:
Lorton:
No kidding.
01:11:26
There's an article on it.
Link:
I heard that last Friday
Lorton:
And you know, I think the way to go in the future is just do it small. You
know, don't they expect to conquer the world?
Bixby:
01:11:40
You mean don't start thinking Ballast Point billion dollars-ish. I think that's
going to do you in, ‘cause we are San Diego and you would like some of our
local, um…
Lorton:
01:11:53
There's also an interview with Jim Crute in that and he says if he was ever
to get back in the business it would be as a nanobrewery making a small
amount of beer for a localized customer base.
Bixby:
01:12:07
Like, like local English pub kind of thing made locally.
Link:
Like this here.42
Bixby:
Oh well like, yeah, they don't want to screw this up because this is too
close to my house. And I know it's a bit like, I don't even have to go to
Santee. I'm right here.
Lightning Brewery in Poway, California.
Jim Crute, owner of Lightning Brewery.
41
Intergalactic Brewing Company. The West Coaster was a local beer-focused publication. Its online presence has
been archived at https://archives.csusm.edu/westcoastersd/.
42
Referring to Burning Beard.
39
40
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Cisneros and Judith Downie
34
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BIXBY, AND GREG
LORTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2017-07-09
Lorton:
Like I was telling Judith that El Cajon was pretty much a beer desert.
Bixby:
Oh, you don't even go there. I know how many times I was like, “Oh, the
Bostonia Ballroom, that huge building there.43 I thought that's a great place
for some fun.” Well, no, now I don't know what they're doing over there.
Link:
Yeah, that area is…
Bixby:
Don't say that. There's where I live. I don't know what's going on in that
area.
Link:
It’s a commercial area.
Bixby:
I mean, I don't know what's happening with El Cajon in general.
Lorton:
It’s a great place to visit, but not to live. <laughter>
Bixby:
Find me a house in La Mesa so I can walk to a coffee.
Lorton:
Yeah. But you’re east of that, right? You're closer to Alpine than anybody
else here.
Bixby:
01:13:10
Yeah. I am close to Alpine.
Bixby:
01:13:13
Yeah. I used to go the Breadbasket all the time when before it was Alpine
Brewing.
Lorton:
Is that right?
Bixby:
Yeah.
Downie:
43
01:13:26
Well, at this point I'm going to end our recording and I want to thank you
all for the time and the stories. This has been absolutely fascinating. I'm
filling in some of the gaps and given me leads of more people to go chase
down for more histories.
Building erected in 1932 on Broadway in El Cajon, California and noted for hosting country music performances.
Transcribed by Ernest
Cisneros and Judith Downie
35
2024-04
�
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Link, Rich, Mary Anne Bixby, and Greg Lorton. Interview transcript. July 9, 2017.
Description
An account of the resource
<span><strong>Rich Link, Mary Anne Bixby and Greg Lorton</strong> are all early members of <strong>Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (QUAFF)</strong>, a San Diego area homebrewing group. In this interview, Link, Bixby, and Lorton discuss their introduction to craft beer, early home brewing experiences, QUAFF, various local breweries, mead, and womens’ participation in homebrewing. None have worked in the industry professionally, but all are certified beer judges and Lorton and Bixby also judge mead competitions.</span><br /><br /><span><strong>Link</strong> wrote for the </span><em>Celebrator Beer News</em><span> magazine on the Southern California beer scene and his experiences visiting European breweries. He served several terms as QUAFF President. He is a certified beer judge.</span><br /><br /><span><strong>Lorton</strong> served as QUAFF Newsletter editor and President. (He has provided a separate oral history.)</span><br /><br /><span><span><strong>Bixby</strong>, with her late husband, Horace, switched from wine making to beer making. She belonged to the SDSS (San Diego Suds Sorority) which was a women-only subgroup of QUAFF.<br /></span></span>
<p><span data-contrast="auto"><strong>QUAFF</strong> was founded in 1989 for San Diego area homebrewers to learn, improve, and successfully compete with their beers, ciders, meads, and other fermented beverages. The group also assists members with earning national Beer Judge Certification (BJCP) and encourages participation in club-only and external competitions and charity events. </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-contrast="auto">QUAFF is noted for sponsoring the America’s Finest City Homebrew Competition. One recipe from the pool of first-place winners considered for Best of Show at this event is selected for production at a local commercial brewery. Participating breweries have included Stone Brewing and AleSmith Brewing. The beers produced include Stone’s Xocovesa, developed by member Chris Banker. The club has garnered awards such as the American Homebrewers Association’s Radegast Award for community involvement and California and National Homebrew Club of the Year Awards, based on competition points earned. </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-contrast="auto">Dozens of QUAFF members have ‘gone pro’ either finding employment in the beer industry in a variety of positions or opening their own brewery. Some have opened breweries in San Diego County and others have moved either elsewhere in California or out of state.</span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span><span data-contrast="auto">As the group has grown, the monthly meetings have moved from member’s homes, to Callahan’s Pub, Karl Strauss Brewery and Gardens, and now meet at The Gärten (Bay Park neighborhood beer garden space shared by Lost Cause Mead, Oddish Wine, and Deft Brewing.) </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<p><span data-contrast="auto">Their website is found at </span><a href="https://quaff.org/"><span data-contrast="none">https://quaff.org/</span></a><span data-contrast="auto"> </span><span data-ccp-props="{"134233117":true,"134233118":true}"> </span></p>
<span>This recording was made on the front exterior patio of Burning Beard Brewery in El Cajon; there are periods of traffic noise which interfered with recording.</span>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rich Link
Mary Anne Bixby
Greg Lorton
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Judith Downie
Ernest Cisneros
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Subject
The topic of the resource
Home brewing -- California -- San Diego County
Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (San Diego, Calif.)
Women brewers -- California -- San Diego County
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
San Diego County (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos
Language
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English
Rights
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
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California State University San Marcos
Format
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text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LinkRich_BixbyMaryAnne_LortonGreg_DownieJudith_2017-07-09_transcript
Brewchive(r)
Women's experience