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Tanis Brown: Okay. So, today is February 2nd, 2023, and this is a part of the North County Oral
History Initiative. My name is Tanis Brown, and today I will be interviewing Sharon Jenkins. So,
hi Sharon. Thanks very much for coming in today. You and I have been friends for a long time,
but there are some things about you that I don’t really know. So, I’d like to find out a little bit
more about your San Marcos story.
Sharon Jenkins: Right. Thanks for having me, Tanis. This—I’m excited you’re doing this.
Brown: Good. Well, I’d like to start from the beginning. Where were you born, Sharon?
Jenkins: I was born in Quincy, Massachusetts—
Brown: Oh my gosh.
Jenkins: —and I moved from Quincy when I was very young. I don’t even know how young,
less than five. And I moved to Scituate, Massachusetts. And I lived there until 1971, when we
moved to San Marcos.
Brown: Okay. So, you came to San Marcos in 1971, and would you still have been going to
school at that time?
Jenkins: So, yes. I started San Marcos High School in 1971 as a freshman.
Brown: Okay. And the school was just ten years old at that time, so—
Jenkins: Yes.
Brown: —it was a new school.
Jenkins: Yes, very small.
Brown: How many students in the–in the graduating class, Sharon?
Jenkins: So, I don’t remember the number. I would guess maybe less than two hundred.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: I know when we graduated, we could sit on the visitor’s side of the bleachers in the old
gym.
Brown: (chuckles)
Jenkins: So, that’s how small we were.
Brown: Okay. Did you have a football team and everything, and—
Jenkins: We had a football team, yes, yes.
Brown: All right. So, any changes between the east coast and coming to the west coast?
Jenkins: I think I was so young that I probably didn’t understand what those changes were.
�Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: Um, I remembered it–I remembered feeling like it was very, um, —things were very
scattered here, and–and not very busy.
Brown: Oh, compared to the east coast.
Jenkins: Right, right.
Brown: Interesting. Um, so other than changing coasts, do you have any other childhood
memories that stick out in your mind that maybe you carry forward today, or any traits about
yourself?
Jenkins: I would say, as far as high school and that era, um, making–making friends that some of
them I still have as friends today.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: San Marcos was very small back then. So, um, there was a lot of people connected and,
even though we’re much larger today, a lot of those connections are still in place. When I moved
here there were, I believe, less than 10,000 people in San Marcos.
Brown: Wow. That’s so cool. And you actually moved to Lake San Marcos when you first came
here?
Jenkins: Yes, I did. I moved to Lake San Marcos. Um, that’s where my parents purchased a
house. And my dad was a pilot and commuted to L.A. when he needed to fly. And, um, he
decided on Lake San Marcos because he felt that it was such a great, safe community. And he
had a friend in Escondido who told him that San Marcos had a new high school and had a very
good reputation. So, that’s another reason why he–he picked San Marcos.
Brown: Okay. Oh, that’s interesting. So, Lake San Marcos was kind of an entity unto itself when
it was first constructed and was highly touted as a–a kind of upscale community. Did you–did
you notice any of that growing up in terms of–of students or residents of San Marcos? Did you
always feel yourself a part of the community of San Marcos?
Jenkins: Yes, always. So, when I moved there, as I look back, I think there were less than five
children living in Lake San Marcos, because it was a retirement community back then. And most
of the homes that are there today were not there. It was m–majority was empty lots that homes
hadn’t been constructed yet—
Brown: Okay
Jenkins: —um, along the streets. (nods her head)
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: So, I think the big thing I noticed, um, was very few—in fact, I don’t eve–I think I only
knew one or two—other kids that lived there, but always felt it was a part of San Marcos to me.
(nods her head again)
�Brown: Okay. That’s great. Okay. So, just in terms of the overall community of San Marcos back
in 1971 and during your high school years, wha–what were the big deals? What was–what was
the city like at that time for you growing up?
Jenkins: Um, I was—since I was new to the community—I didn’t have some of the connections
that many of the other kids had that had been through school from however young. Um, so I
think some of the connections were um, um, you know, as you made friends, hanging out with
those friends, I remember a teacher encouraged my mom, “Get her involved in something.” And
I think I was on the tennis team for a year. (chuckles) Um, never play tennis. But the whole thing
was, you know, the staff at that time was to get kids involved in–in things. Um, Friday night
football was a big deal back then and um, um, just hanging out with whatever friends you had.
Brown: Mm-hmm. So, in the community, though, did your parents get involved in the
community? Were they involved in Kiwanis and Rotary and that kind of thing?
Jenkins: No.
Brown: Were those organizations available at that time, or—
Jenkins: I don’t know. I s–assume so.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: No. They were involved in playing golf. (laughs)
Brown: Okay. Okay. And that was a big thing in Lake San Marcos—
Jenkins: Yes!
Brown: —to play golf. They had, what, an executive course?
Jenkins: I don’t think they had the executive course then.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: But they did have the big course, and I’m sure that was one of the reasons why my dad
selected there, too, because they both played golf.
Brown: All right.
Jenkins: And I played golf too. My dad taught me–started to teach me, um, when I was about
nine. And, um–and so I would go out and play. There was a couple of people–a couple kids at
that time, and another gal and I would go out and play periodically.
Brown: Okay. So, today San Marcos is fairly well-known for its colleges. We have Palomar
Community College and Cal State San Marcos. After graduating from high school, did–did
you—you might not of even had those opportunities, although Palomar, I think, was here at that
point in time. Where–what did you do after high school, after graduating from high school?
Jenkins: So, I graduated from high school and went to Palomar College because it had such a
great reputation back then as it does now. I went to Palomar, and then, um, transferred to San
Diego State. But it was right around the time—actually, I think that I was going on campus to
�San Diego, and then as I got closer to finishing—it took me much longer than two years, because
I worked. But, as I got closer to finishing, they started to have some remote classes in North
County, and I think a couple of classes I went to—one was in the–a middle school in Vista, on a
Saturday, I think, and another one was in, um, a business class from an—off of Furniture Row.
So, San Diego—so, Cal State San Marcos wasn’t here, but they had started to expand some
opportunities for the No–North County kids. So, it wasn’t a lot of classes, but it was just enough
that you could take a couple and not have to commute to San Diego.
Brown: All right. Great. So, you finished up at–at San Diego State, and did you have a vocation
or an avocation in mind, um, while you were going to college?
Jenkins: Business.
Brown: Business.
Jenkins: Yes. I focused on business administration and accounting at the time.
Brown: Okay. And you said you were–you worked your way through college? You were
working while you were going to college.
Jenkins: I worked while I went to college. I ended up, um—after I left Palomar—I always
worked part-time. After I left Palomar, I think I might have started to work full-time and then I
took classes at night, and would commute down to San Diego State at night, a couple of nights a
week.
Brown: Oh. So, you had a busy life, even back then.
Jenkins: Yes.
Brown: (laughs) Wow, that’s great. So, commuting to school—what was driving to San Diego
State from San Marcos like? What–how–what was the timeframe?
Jenkins: So, I always thought it was a good, um, a good travel time if I could do it in about thirty
minutes. (both of them chuckle) Most of the time it was more than that. But it depended, you
know. If it was a class that ended at nine o’clock, then you could pretty much get home within
thirty minutes or so.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: But there definitely were times of the day when it was more difficult to get there, even
back then! That would have been in the, um, let’s see, probably the late seventies.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: So. And the freeways weren’t as big as they are today.
Brown: Right.
Jenkins: But we didn’t have as many cars back then.
Brown: Okay. So, then after graduation did you look for employment in, locally, or interested in
going someplace else?
�Jenkins: So, while I was in high school, my first job during high school after my sophomore year
was working at Taco Bell in Escondido. And then–um, and then I started my junior year and then
I was an aide for one of the high school counselors and he had a neighbor who had a business in
Escondido. And he said, “Sharon, you–this–my neighbor is looking for some work. Why don’t
you go see if they could–if, you know–apply for a job there.” And that was the summer after my
junior year. So, I worked the summer after my junior year at the company, and then when my
senior year started, I was only going half-day. And so, I would go to high school in the morning,
and then I would go work in the afternoon. And then I graduated mid-year my senior year. So, I
was able to start Palomar and I still worked part-time for the company. And then, while I was
going to Palomar, I just continued to work part-time and plan my classes accordingly. So, when I
finished college, I conti–started full-time with the company. In fact, I probably started full-time
before a graduated from college and finished college at night. I think that’s how it went.
Brown: Wow. So, you were a working woman early on.
Jenkins: Very early.
Brown: Yeah. And did you stay in the accounting field for a long time?
Jenkins: Yes. Most of my work there was office type work, accounting related work. And then I
worked there for about ten years, and then I applied for, while I was in college, I applied for a
internship, I guess you will, at IBM in San Diego. And so, I was hired to work part-time. I don’t
know what it was called exactly, but similar to a internship. And then I worked a year doing that.
And then–and then after that year, I started full-time there and I stayed there, um, for probably
early 90s. And then–and then I quit so I could stay home with my kids.
Brown: All right. Wow. Okay. So, when I first met you, you were involved in real estate. How
did that transition happen?
Jenkins: So, I think we actually met earlier than that, when Allan and I were on the school board
together.
Brown: Oh, okay.
Jenkins: Okay? Um, and, um, so I–I stayed home with my kids. Did different part-time things.
Volunteered a lot in the schools. That’s how I met Allan and eventually you. And then as my la–
my second daughter was about to graduate from high school, I thought well what am I going to
do now? And so then a friend said, “Why don’t you think about becoming a realtor?” And I
never gave it a thought. But, I said, “Okay, well, I’ll check into that.” And so, I did that and it–
it’s a way to help people which is what I like to do. And so, it has worked out well. So, I’ve been
doing that for, mm, probably close to seventeen years.
Brown: All right. That’s great. Well, you segued right into the kind of second theme of my
interview questions and that is your very long career in local government, starting with the
school district. And so, my question to you about that is, um, you know, what–what–what
inspired you to get involved beyond the local parent organization in the school district here in
San Marcos?
�Jenkins: So, I think being involved in–in the local parent groups actually was my segue into the
next part. Because I was involved in different parent organizations. I was involved in the 1996
School Board Bond effort. I co-chaired that with two other people. And then after that, once you
volunteer for something, as Dennis well knows, (they both chuckle) you are encouraged to
volunteer for more. And one day somebody caught me in one of the school parking lots and said,
“Have you ever running for the school board?” which I said, “I’ve—No.” And then, so then
finally in 1998, Lucy Gross who was a school board member for a long time which even Allan
knew well, was leaving the board and she–and she also approached me and said, “You know,
you should think about this because of the involvement with the schools.” And so–so I was on
the school board from 1998 until 2012.
Brown: Wow. So, during that time, how much did the school district change in those years?
Jenkins: I would say dramatically, more so towards the last half than the beginning. But San
Marcos was growing considerably then. I want to say, when I first started, there might have
been—I don’t know—maybe eight, maybe ten thousand students. I’d have to go back and look at
that. And now there are cl–close to, you know, approximately twenty [thousand]. So, it was a
very growth intensified time, a lot of schools being built, always financial troubles from–due to
state funding. But somehow, we got it all done.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: And I think during the last, um–you know, during the last five years or so, my term
there is just, I think, when dramatic things change. It was always interesting. I was told, and I–I
didn’t realize this until–until later, but I was told that, um, at different times of an organization,
there’s different priorities. And sometimes it’s a–it’s a school building cycle. Sometimes it’s a
curriculum cycle that you’re working to overcome. Sometimes it’s a financial cycle that you’re
working to overcome. And, um, and so as I look back, I realize when I first got on, it was a
growth cycle. So, it was building. And then later it became more curriculum focused cycle. All–
always–always focused on curriculum, but you–you pick and choose things to make things
happen sooner than later. And so, looking back, I–I–I now see what that very intelligent person
meant.
Brown: So, what was your favorite thing about—or a couple of your favorite things—about
being in a leadership position for a school district?
Jenkins: I would say my colleagues on the school board and staff. I think—you know, we’re
supposed to have the vision at a–at a high level, figure out what those goals are. And then it’s the
staff that makes it happen. And I think San Marcos—both on a school district and city-wide
too—has always had great staff. I think we were lucky. And we had school board members that
kept their focus on the kids and what was best for the kids. We couldn’t always get there as
quickly as we wanted, but eventually we would get there.
Brown: Yeah.
Jenkins: I think also the staff and the–the other electeds, but also, um, some of the things that I–I
find the most memorable to me are buildings, seeing the new schools open. High school
graduations are always great because, you know, it’s a huge success for the kids and the–and the
�staff, to get them to where they were that day. And also, I think the–the two school bonds that we
worked on over the years. Those were—that brought such change to the community, both of
those. And–and as an elected official, sometimes it’s difficult when you have to make really
difficult decisions. But it’s also gratifying when you–when you realize, okay, I made the right
decision. It's difficult, but I made the right decision.
Brown: And you come out on the–on the other end of it feeling really positive.
Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brown: Yeah. That’s good. So, from the school board, then you put your name in to be a city
council representative and that comes with a whole ‘nother group of–of learning curves and–and,
uh, opportunities and challenges. So, any differences between the s–what you were dealing with
on the school board versus the city council?
Jenkins: I would say, um, a couple differences. The–the school district had, probably when I
started, maybe, I don’t know, maybe not even a thousand employees and less than ten schools.
Whereas I think the school district is more complex with a lot of the issues they have to deal
with. I think the city is–just has a smaller scale to it. And the needs are—you’re looking at
different needs than what the school district is looking at. You know, we have, say, two hundred
and some employees and many facilities. But those facilities are, in my mind, are less
complicated than a school facility.
Brown: Oh. Interesting. Wow. So, what was the first year you were elected to the city council?
Jenkins: 2012.
Brown: So, 2012. So, there was no break between the school district and moving right into city
council.
Jenkins: No. I was mid-term—
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: —in 2012. So, I had two years into my four-year term. And there was a sitting
councilmember who wasn’t running. And so, again, I had a–a couple people approach me and
say, “You know, you should think about this.” And I said, “I know nothing about any of that.” I
said, “I haven’t been on the planning commission. How do I learn all that.” (both of them
chuckle) And so about maybe–maybe about a year, maybe s–not quite six months before the
election, I started to talk to as many people as I could to see, you know, what their thoughts
were. We, at that point, had lost redevelopment money to the state. The state clawed back, I think
it was twenty-some million dollars of redevelopment money, and I had a couple people say,
“Why would you even want to go into that because, you know, there’s a huge situation going on
here.” But I just decided that, after talking to a number of people, that I felt I had good support,
and I thought, you know, I can–I can learn this. I can do this. I had a lot of people that said, you
know, “Come back and talk to me whenever you need to.” And so, I did it.
Brown: Yeah. Were the–was the campaigning different between the school board and the city
council?
�Jenkins: Um, not–not drastically back then. To me it was citywide and to me the school board at
that point in time was also citywide. So, I had–I think I had some name recognition with the
parents and then because of being involved in different things in the district, then that–I think
that gave me a leg up.
Brown: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Jenkins: So, it’s about—yeah, I would say, at that point in time, it was about the same.
Brown: Okay. So, another continuing growth effort in our city over the time that you have been
serving on the city council. So, I’d like to ask you—in that time that you’ve been on which is
like ten years going on a few more years—so, um, looking back on that last ten years, what are
you—I mean—wha–what do you see as the most value that–that the city council and you,
yourself, have been involved in for the–for the community?
Jenkins: Um, I would say doing our best to listen to all residents. We can’t always do what
residents want us to do. That can be a little frustrating because they don’t realize–al–some of
what we do is out of our control. We really push for local control here in San Marcos so that we
make our own decisions. But more and more state, mainly, and federal is–is telling us we have to
do things differently. Or we have to adhere to certain things. And, you know, sometimes we may
feel like that’s not the best thing for our community, but we don’t have a choice.
Brown: Yeah.
Jenkins: Or we’d be sued.
Brown: So, if you had a magic wand today, is there anything in San Marcos that you would
change or–or improve that would make a huge difference or, uh, for our future?
Jenkins: I can’t think of anything right now off the top of my head. Um, I would like to see us,
um—traffic is always a big concern in San Marcos. So, I would say we have continuing efforts
to work on that. It’s not necessarily all about expanding roads. Some of it’s infrastructure and–
and–and other things. So, I would say, um, just trying to keep working through what we can in
that area and we’re working on it. We’re spending lots of money on it. I can’t think of anything
particular. We’re–I’m excited to have the bridges done in a few months. That has been
something that was talked about long before I got on the council. So, I think that would be a–a
big plus to the community to get that traffic flow.
Brown: That’s great. So, Sharon, I would like to kind of conclude this interview with giving you
an opportunity to just—if there’s anything we haven’t covered. I–I do have one more question
that I kind of have been thinking about in terms of my— Knowing you for so many years, one of
the things that I appreciate so much about you is your continually willingness and outreach to all
the people that you’ve known for so long, which is, I’m sure, a growing number every year. How
do you–how do you continue to keep in contact with this growing number of friends and
colleagues that you have grown over the course of your time here in San Marcos?
Jenkins: Um, let’s see. I don’t know. How do any of us do that? I think you just make an effort
to–to get together with people and have meet-ups and, um, see them at different events. I try to,
when things are going on within the city, I try to email people that I know would have an interest
�in that. And almost always I get emails back saying, “Wow. You know, we really appreciate that,
because we don’t–we don’t have access to that. And so, we’re glad to hear about something.”
Just, you know, again just doing your best to try to reach out to people.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: And–and see them when you can.
Brown: Uh-huh. Well, I certainly think that makes you a very effective leader in our community
in terms of keeping in t–touch with the way people feel. And I appreciate it.
Jenkins: Thank you. I think another thing that’s important too is, um, as things have changed in
the recent years, I think it is important for–for future councils and–and to understand that even
though we’re in voting districts, I think it’s important that we represent all of San Marcos.
Brown: Yeah.
Jenkins: Um, I’m in a particular district but I reach out to people in other districts all the time.
Listening is the best thing we can do.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: And responding to questions.
Brown: Yeah. So, in closing, is there anything else you’d like to share with us that we haven’t
covered today, but you’d like our audience to hear.
Jenkins: Let’s see. I would say that I’m just very pleased that I’ve been able to live in one town
for so long. Growing up I, you know, you always think, “Oh, I just want to get out of here.” But
I’m glad that I’ve–I’ve been here as long as I have. I’m glad my daughters—one lives here. Her–
her two children are going to San Marcos schools. In fact, one of them is going to Discovery
Elementary and I was one of the founding PTO board members of that. So, that’s kind of fun to
go back and see that school. And then my other daughter’s nearby in San Diego. So, I think
being able to see them enjoy what’s going on here in North County—that, things that, you know,
I enjoyed growing up. And they’re now realizing that–that it’s a good place.
Brown: Absolutely.
Jenkins: Yeah.
Brown: All right.
Jenkins: Thank you for having me.
Brown: Well, thank you very much for your time today and this concludes our interview for the
North County Oral History Initiative.
�
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Jenkins, Sharon. Interview transcript. February 2, 2023
Description
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Sharon Jenkins was born in Quincy, Massachusetts, grew up in Scituate, Mass., and moved to Lake San Marcos, California in 1971 where she attended San Marcos High School. She was a business major in college; after college she worked in the accounting profession for 15 years. Her involvement as a parent volunteer led her to run for San Marcos City School Board where Jenkins served for 14 years. Jenkins was elected to San Marcos City Council in 2012 and will complete her final term in 2024. She is also a Realtor. The interview focuses primarily on her high school years and her experiences serving on San Marcos' School Board and City Council.
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Sharon Jenkins
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Tanis Brown
Melissa Martin
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2023-02-02
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Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
Public administration -- California -- San Marcos
School boards -- California -- San Marcos
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Tanis Brown
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Sharon Jenkins
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5.4 Jenkins, Sharon. Interview, February 2, 2023 SC027-32 0:34:26 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos Local government -- California -- San Marcos Public administration -- California -- San Marcos School boards -- California -- San Marcos Sharon Jenkins Tanis Brown mp4 JenkinsSharon_BrownTanis_2023-02-02_access.mp4 1:|18(10)|47(8)|69(7)|85(1)|96(5)|114(2)|124(6)|156(2)|167(1)|176(13)|199(9)|222(2)|231(9)|245(8)|253(6)|267(7)|276(7)|285(6)|296(3)|306(11)|318(1)|329(6)|342(11)|351(16)|370(4)|379(10)|391(11)|405(8)|418(11)|428(1)|438(5)|448(14)|473(5)|483(2) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/2fbd5c479eb53fc879b7df28dcab0e80.mp4 Other video English 0 Childhood/ Moving to San Marcos, CA Sharon Jenkins briefly discusses her early childhood in Massachusetts before moving to San Marcos, CA. She grew up in Quincy, MA as a young child before her family moved to Scituate, MA. Her family lived in Scituate until 1971, when they purchased a home in Lake San Marcos. Jenkins explains that her father was a pilot and commuted to Los Angeles, CA for work. Jenkins was a high school freshman when they first arrived to San Marcos and she attended San Marcos High School. She explains that San Marcos High School was only ten years old at the time, and was a small school in the 1970s. She estimates that only two hundred students were in her graduating class. Jenkins also recalls making life-long friends in high school. High school ; Lake San Marcos (Calif.) ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Quincy (Mass.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos High School ; School ; Scituate (Mass.) ; Small community ; Small town ; Students 256 The community of San Marcos, CA Sharon Jenkins describes the new community of San Marcos during the 1970s. As a new student, her teachers encouraged her parents to sign her up for sports teams and other activities, which is how Jenkins became more active in the San Marcos community. She describes feeling connected to the community by socializing with friends at Friday night football games. Jenkins also explains that playing golf was a popular activity in Lake San Marcos. Football games ; Golfl ; High school ; Lake San Marcos (Calif.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos High School ; School ; Small community ; Small town ; Students ; Tennis 480 College education Sharon Jenkins recounts her busy life as a college student. After graduating from San Marcos High School, she enrolled in Palomar College and then transferred to San Diego State University (SDSU). Jenkins majored in business and administration in college. Jenkins also worked throughout her college career, working part-time while attending Palomar College, and then working full-time after transferring to SDSU. She explains that she took night classes when attending SDSU, and she would be fortunate if she made it from San Marcos to SDSU within a thirty-minute commute. She explains that her commutes were usually a much more difficult drive due to the San Diego traffic—even during the 1970s. Business and administration ; Commute ; Commuting ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Palomar College ; San Diego freeways ; San Diego State Univeristy ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Students ; Traffic 700 Career in accounting and real estate Sharon Jenkins describes her career in accounting and real estate. She explains that she began working at an accounting firm part-time the summer after her junior year in high school, and continued working at the firm throughout her education at Palomar College. Jenkins then accepted an internship at IBM in San Diego and worked there for a year while in college, before accepting a full-time position at the company. She stayed at IBM until the early 1990s before leaving the position and becoming a homemaker. Jenkins explains that she later transitioned to the field of real estate after her second daughter graduated from high school. At the time of the interview’s recording, Jenkins has worked in real estate for seventeen years. Accounting ; Accounting firms ; Homemaker ; IBM ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Parenthood ; Real estate ; Realtor ; San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) 966 Involvement in the San Marcos school board Sharon Jenkins recounts her involvement in the local school district of San Marcos. She first became involved in the local parent groups, parent organizations, and the 1996 School Board Bond effort, which she co-chaired with two other individuals. She then joined the school board, and was an active member from 1998 to 2012. Jenkins also reflects on how she has seen the San Marcos school district change over the years. When she first joined the school board, eight to ten thousand students were enrolled in the district, and at the time of the interview’s recording, she explains that approximately twenty thousand are now enrolled. She also explains that the school board also has to tackle many issues, such as financial issues due to the lack of state funding. Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; School ; School board ; School bonds ; School district ; Small community ; Small town ; State funding ; Students 1239 Reflections on being in leadership Sharon Jenkins reflects on being in a leadership position. She explains that she enjoys working with her colleagues on the school board and its staff. She continues that San Marcos is has a great staff and the school board has its best intentions in mind for its students. She also found the opening of new schools and high school graduations to be a very memorable experiences while in the position. Decision making in leadership ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; School ; School board ; Small community ; Small town ; Staff ; Students 1374 Joining the city council Sharon Jenkins discusses her campaign to join the city council in 2012 and the lessons she learned on the campaign trail. She also discusses the differences between working on the city council and in the school district. She notes that the school district was more complex and dealt with a plethora of issues when compared with the city council. She also explains that the school district and city council both had different needs to which needed attending. City council ; City council campaign ; City council election ; City council representative ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos city council ; School board ; School district ; Small community ; Small town ; Students 1628 The value of the city council for the community Sharon Jenkins reflects on the city council’s value to the community of San Marcos. She explains that the city council does its best to listen to its residents and push for local control. She expresses frustration over state and federal government asserting themselves into local governmental matters. Jenkins is also passionate about continuing efforts to fix and expand infrastructure in the city. Bridges ; City council ; City council representative ; Federal government ; Funding ; Infrastructure ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Roads ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos city council ; Small community ; Small town ; State government ; Traffic 1813 Final thoughts/Closing of interview Sharon Jenkins concludes the interview by discussing the importance of reaching out to others, whether that being staying in contact with friends in the community or reaching out to individuals in other districts and listening to them and responding to their questions. City council ; City council representative ; Colleagues ; Family ; Friends ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Representation in small districts ; San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Small community ; Small town ; Staying connected Oral history Sharon Jenkins was born in Quincy, Massachusetts, grew up in Scituate, Mass., and moved to Lake San Marcos, California in 1971 where she attended San Marcos High School. She was a business major in college ; after college she worked in the accounting profession for 15 years. Her involvement as a parent volunteer led her to run for San Marcos City School Board where Jenkins served for 14 years. Jenkins was elected to San Marcos City Council in 2012 and will complete her final term in 2024. She is also a Realtor. The interview focuses primarily on her high school years and her experiences serving on San Marcos' School Board and City Council. Tanis Brown: Okay. So, today is February 2nd, 2023, and this is a part of the North County Oral History Initiative. My name is Tanis Brown, and today I will be interviewing Sharon Jenkins. So, hi Sharon. Thanks very much for coming in today. You and I have been friends for a long time, but there are some things about you that I don' ; t really know. So, I' ; d like to find out a little bit more about your San Marcos story. Sharon Jenkins: Right. Thanks for having me, Tanis. This--I' ; m excited you' ; re doing this. Brown: Good. Well, I' ; d like to start from the beginning. Where were you born, Sharon? Jenkins: I was born in Quincy, Massachusetts-- Brown: Oh my gosh. Jenkins: --and I moved from Quincy when I was very young. I don' ; t even know how young, less than five. And I moved to Scituate, Massachusetts. And I lived there until 1971, when we moved to San Marcos. Brown: Okay. So, you came to San Marcos in 1971, and would you still have been going to school at that time? Jenkins: So, yes. I started San Marcos High School in 1971 as a freshman. Brown: Okay. And the school was just ten years old at that time, so-- Jenkins: Yes. Brown: --it was a new school. Jenkins: Yes, very small. Brown: How many students in the--in the graduating class, Sharon? Jenkins: So, I don' ; t remember the number. I would guess maybe less than two hundred. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: I know when we graduated, we could sit on the visitor' ; s side of the bleachers in the old gym. Brown: (chuckles) Jenkins: So, that' ; s how small we were. Brown: Okay. Did you have a football team and everything, and-- Jenkins: We had a football team, yes, yes. Brown: All right. So, any changes between the east coast and coming to the west coast? Jenkins: I think I was so young that I probably didn' ; t understand what those changes were. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: Um, I remembered it--I remembered feeling like it was very, um, --things were very scattered here, and--and not very busy. Brown: Oh, compared to the east coast. Jenkins: Right, right. Brown: Interesting. Um, so other than changing coasts, do you have any other childhood memories that stick out in your mind that maybe you carry forward today, or any traits about yourself? Jenkins: I would say, as far as high school and that era, um, making--making friends that some of them I still have as friends today. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: San Marcos was very small back then. So, um, there was a lot of people connected and, even though we' ; re much larger today, a lot of those connections are still in place. When I moved here there were, I believe, less than 10,000 people in San Marcos. Brown: Wow. That' ; s so cool. And you actually moved to Lake San Marcos when you first came here? Jenkins: Yes, I did. I moved to Lake San Marcos. Um, that' ; s where my parents purchased a house. And my dad was a pilot and commuted to L.A. when he needed to fly. And, um, he decided on Lake San Marcos because he felt that it was such a great, safe community. And he had a friend in Escondido who told him that San Marcos had a new high school and had a very good reputation. So, that' ; s another reason why he--he picked San Marcos. Brown: Okay. Oh, that' ; s interesting. So, Lake San Marcos was kind of an entity unto itself when it was first constructed and was highly touted as a--a kind of upscale community. Did you--did you notice any of that growing up in terms of--of students or residents of San Marcos? Did you always feel yourself a part of the community of San Marcos? Jenkins: Yes, always. So, when I moved there, as I look back, I think there were less than five children living in Lake San Marcos, because it was a retirement community back then. And most of the homes that are there today were not there. It was m--majority was empty lots that homes hadn' ; t been constructed yet-- Brown: Okay Jenkins: --um, along the streets. (nods her head) Brown: Okay. Jenkins: So, I think the big thing I noticed, um, was very few--in fact, I don' ; t eve--I think I only knew one or two--other kids that lived there, but always felt it was a part of San Marcos to me. (nods her head again) Brown: Okay. That' ; s great. Okay. So, just in terms of the overall community of San Marcos back in 1971 and during your high school years, wha--what were the big deals? What was--what was the city like at that time for you growing up? Jenkins: Um, I was--since I was new to the community--I didn' ; t have some of the connections that many of the other kids had that had been through school from however young. Um, so I think some of the connections were um, um, you know, as you made friends, hanging out with those friends, I remember a teacher encouraged my mom, " ; Get her involved in something." ; And I think I was on the tennis team for a year. (chuckles) Um, never play tennis. But the whole thing was, you know, the staff at that time was to get kids involved in--in things. Um, Friday night football was a big deal back then and um, um, just hanging out with whatever friends you had. Brown: Mm-hmm. So, in the community, though, did your parents get involved in the community? Were they involved in Kiwanis and Rotary and that kind of thing? Jenkins: No. Brown: Were those organizations available at that time, or-- Jenkins: I don' ; t know. I s--assume so. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: No. They were involved in playing golf. (laughs) Brown: Okay. Okay. And that was a big thing in Lake San Marcos-- Jenkins: Yes! Brown: --to play golf. They had, what, an executive course? Jenkins: I don' ; t think they had the executive course then. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: But they did have the big course, and I' ; m sure that was one of the reasons why my dad selected there, too, because they both played golf. Brown: All right. Jenkins: And I played golf too. My dad taught me--started to teach me, um, when I was about nine. And, um--and so I would go out and play. There was a couple of people--a couple kids at that time, and another gal and I would go out and play periodically. Brown: Okay. So, today San Marcos is fairly well-known for its colleges. We have Palomar Community College and Cal State San Marcos. After graduating from high school, did--did you--you might not of even had those opportunities, although Palomar, I think, was here at that point in time. Where--what did you do after high school, after graduating from high school? Jenkins: So, I graduated from high school and went to Palomar College because it had such a great reputation back then as it does now. I went to Palomar, and then, um, transferred to San Diego State. But it was right around the time--actually, I think that I was going on campus to San Diego, and then as I got closer to finishing--it took me much longer than two years, because I worked. But, as I got closer to finishing, they started to have some remote classes in North County, and I think a couple of classes I went to--one was in the--a middle school in Vista, on a Saturday, I think, and another one was in, um, a business class from an--off of Furniture Row. So, San Diego--so, Cal State San Marcos wasn' ; t here, but they had started to expand some opportunities for the No--North County kids. So, it wasn' ; t a lot of classes, but it was just enough that you could take a couple and not have to commute to San Diego. Brown: All right. Great. So, you finished up at--at San Diego State, and did you have a vocation or an avocation in mind, um, while you were going to college? Jenkins: Business. Brown: Business. Jenkins: Yes. I focused on business administration and accounting at the time. Brown: Okay. And you said you were--you worked your way through college? You were working while you were going to college. Jenkins: I worked while I went to college. I ended up, um--after I left Palomar--I always worked part-time. After I left Palomar, I think I might have started to work full-time and then I took classes at night, and would commute down to San Diego State at night, a couple of nights a week. Brown: Oh. So, you had a busy life, even back then. Jenkins: Yes. Brown: (laughs) Wow, that' ; s great. So, commuting to school--what was driving to San Diego State from San Marcos like? What--how--what was the timeframe? Jenkins: So, I always thought it was a good, um, a good travel time if I could do it in about thirty minutes. (both of them chuckle) Most of the time it was more than that. But it depended, you know. If it was a class that ended at nine o' ; clock, then you could pretty much get home within thirty minutes or so. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: But there definitely were times of the day when it was more difficult to get there, even back then! That would have been in the, um, let' ; s see, probably the late seventies. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: So. And the freeways weren' ; t as big as they are today. Brown: Right. Jenkins: But we didn' ; t have as many cars back then. Brown: Okay. So, then after graduation did you look for employment in, locally, or interested in going someplace else? Jenkins: So, while I was in high school, my first job during high school after my sophomore year was working at Taco Bell in Escondido. And then--um, and then I started my junior year and then I was an aide for one of the high school counselors and he had a neighbor who had a business in Escondido. And he said, " ; Sharon, you--this--my neighbor is looking for some work. Why don' ; t you go see if they could--if, you know--apply for a job there." ; And that was the summer after my junior year. So, I worked the summer after my junior year at the company, and then when my senior year started, I was only going half-day. And so, I would go to high school in the morning, and then I would go work in the afternoon. And then I graduated mid-year my senior year. So, I was able to start Palomar and I still worked part-time for the company. And then, while I was going to Palomar, I just continued to work part-time and plan my classes accordingly. So, when I finished college, I conti--started full-time with the company. In fact, I probably started full-time before a graduated from college and finished college at night. I think that' ; s how it went. Brown: Wow. So, you were a working woman early on. Jenkins: Very early. Brown: Yeah. And did you stay in the accounting field for a long time? Jenkins: Yes. Most of my work there was office type work, accounting related work. And then I worked there for about ten years, and then I applied for, while I was in college, I applied for a internship, I guess you will, at IBM in San Diego. And so, I was hired to work part-time. I don' ; t know what it was called exactly, but similar to a internship. And then I worked a year doing that. And then--and then after that year, I started full-time there and I stayed there, um, for probably early 90s. And then--and then I quit so I could stay home with my kids. Brown: All right. Wow. Okay. So, when I first met you, you were involved in real estate. How did that transition happen? Jenkins: So, I think we actually met earlier than that, when Allan and I were on the school board together. Brown: Oh, okay. Jenkins: Okay? Um, and, um, so I--I stayed home with my kids. Did different part-time things. Volunteered a lot in the schools. That' ; s how I met Allan and eventually you. And then as my la--my second daughter was about to graduate from high school, I thought well what am I going to do now? And so then a friend said, " ; Why don' ; t you think about becoming a realtor?" ; And I never gave it a thought. But, I said, " ; Okay, well, I' ; ll check into that." ; And so, I did that and it--it' ; s a way to help people which is what I like to do. And so, it has worked out well. So, I' ; ve been doing that for, mm, probably close to seventeen years. Brown: All right. That' ; s great. Well, you segued right into the kind of second theme of my interview questions and that is your very long career in local government, starting with the school district. And so, my question to you about that is, um, you know, what--what--what inspired you to get involved beyond the local parent organization in the school district here in San Marcos? Jenkins: So, I think being involved in--in the local parent groups actually was my segue into the next part. Because I was involved in different parent organizations. I was involved in the 1996 School Board Bond effort. I co-chaired that with two other people. And then after that, once you volunteer for something, as Dennis well knows, (they both chuckle) you are encouraged to volunteer for more. And one day somebody caught me in one of the school parking lots and said, " ; Have you ever running for the school board?" ; which I said, " ; I' ; ve--No." ; And then, so then finally in 1998, Lucy Gross who was a school board member for a long time which even Allan knew well, was leaving the board and she--and she also approached me and said, " ; You know, you should think about this because of the involvement with the schools." ; And so--so I was on the school board from 1998 until 2012. Brown: Wow. So, during that time, how much did the school district change in those years? Jenkins: I would say dramatically, more so towards the last half than the beginning. But San Marcos was growing considerably then. I want to say, when I first started, there might have been--I don' ; t know--maybe eight, maybe ten thousand students. I' ; d have to go back and look at that. And now there are cl--close to, you know, approximately twenty [thousand]. So, it was a very growth intensified time, a lot of schools being built, always financial troubles from--due to state funding. But somehow, we got it all done. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: And I think during the last, um--you know, during the last five years or so, my term there is just, I think, when dramatic things change. It was always interesting. I was told, and I--I didn' ; t realize this until--until later, but I was told that, um, at different times of an organization, there' ; s different priorities. And sometimes it' ; s a--it' ; s a school building cycle. Sometimes it' ; s a curriculum cycle that you' ; re working to overcome. Sometimes it' ; s a financial cycle that you' ; re working to overcome. And, um, and so as I look back, I realize when I first got on, it was a growth cycle. So, it was building. And then later it became more curriculum focused cycle. All--always--always focused on curriculum, but you--you pick and choose things to make things happen sooner than later. And so, looking back, I--I--I now see what that very intelligent person meant. Brown: So, what was your favorite thing about--or a couple of your favorite things--about being in a leadership position for a school district? Jenkins: I would say my colleagues on the school board and staff. I think--you know, we' ; re supposed to have the vision at a--at a high level, figure out what those goals are. And then it' ; s the staff that makes it happen. And I think San Marcos--both on a school district and city-wide too--has always had great staff. I think we were lucky. And we had school board members that kept their focus on the kids and what was best for the kids. We couldn' ; t always get there as quickly as we wanted, but eventually we would get there. Brown: Yeah. Jenkins: I think also the staff and the--the other electeds, but also, um, some of the things that I--I find the most memorable to me are buildings, seeing the new schools open. High school graduations are always great because, you know, it' ; s a huge success for the kids and the--and the staff, to get them to where they were that day. And also, I think the--the two school bonds that we worked on over the years. Those were--that brought such change to the community, both of those. And--and as an elected official, sometimes it' ; s difficult when you have to make really difficult decisions. But it' ; s also gratifying when you--when you realize, okay, I made the right decision. It' ; s difficult, but I made the right decision. Brown: And you come out on the--on the other end of it feeling really positive. Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brown: Yeah. That' ; s good. So, from the school board, then you put your name in to be a city council representative and that comes with a whole ' ; nother group of--of learning curves and--and, uh, opportunities and challenges. So, any differences between the s--what you were dealing with on the school board versus the city council? Jenkins: I would say, um, a couple differences. The--the school district had, probably when I started, maybe, I don' ; t know, maybe not even a thousand employees and less than ten schools. Whereas I think the school district is more complex with a lot of the issues they have to deal with. I think the city is--just has a smaller scale to it. And the needs are--you' ; re looking at different needs than what the school district is looking at. You know, we have, say, two hundred and some employees and many facilities. But those facilities are, in my mind, are less complicated than a school facility. Brown: Oh. Interesting. Wow. So, what was the first year you were elected to the city council? Jenkins: 2012. Brown: So, 2012. So, there was no break between the school district and moving right into city council. Jenkins: No. I was mid-term-- Brown: Okay. Jenkins: --in 2012. So, I had two years into my four-year term. And there was a sitting councilmember who wasn' ; t running. And so, again, I had a--a couple people approach me and say, " ; You know, you should think about this." ; And I said, " ; I know nothing about any of that." ; I said, " ; I haven' ; t been on the planning commission. How do I learn all that." ; (both of them chuckle) And so about maybe--maybe about a year, maybe s--not quite six months before the election, I started to talk to as many people as I could to see, you know, what their thoughts were. We, at that point, had lost redevelopment money to the state. The state clawed back, I think it was twenty-some million dollars of redevelopment money, and I had a couple people say, " ; Why would you even want to go into that because, you know, there' ; s a huge situation going on here." ; But I just decided that, after talking to a number of people, that I felt I had good support, and I thought, you know, I can--I can learn this. I can do this. I had a lot of people that said, you know, " ; Come back and talk to me whenever you need to." ; And so, I did it. Brown: Yeah. Were the--was the campaigning different between the school board and the city council? Jenkins: Um, not--not drastically back then. To me it was citywide and to me the school board at that point in time was also citywide. So, I had--I think I had some name recognition with the parents and then because of being involved in different things in the district, then that--I think that gave me a leg up. Brown: Mm-hmm. Okay. Jenkins: So, it' ; s about--yeah, I would say, at that point in time, it was about the same. Brown: Okay. So, another continuing growth effort in our city over the time that you have been serving on the city council. So, I' ; d like to ask you--in that time that you' ; ve been on which is like ten years going on a few more years--so, um, looking back on that last ten years, what are you--I mean--wha--what do you see as the most value that--that the city council and you, yourself, have been involved in for the--for the community? Jenkins: Um, I would say doing our best to listen to all residents. We can' ; t always do what residents want us to do. That can be a little frustrating because they don' ; t realize--al--some of what we do is out of our control. We really push for local control here in San Marcos so that we make our own decisions. But more and more state, mainly, and federal is--is telling us we have to do things differently. Or we have to adhere to certain things. And, you know, sometimes we may feel like that' ; s not the best thing for our community, but we don' ; t have a choice. Brown: Yeah. Jenkins: Or we' ; d be sued. Brown: So, if you had a magic wand today, is there anything in San Marcos that you would change or--or improve that would make a huge difference or, uh, for our future? Jenkins: I can' ; t think of anything right now off the top of my head. Um, I would like to see us, um--traffic is always a big concern in San Marcos. So, I would say we have continuing efforts to work on that. It' ; s not necessarily all about expanding roads. Some of it' ; s infrastructure and--and--and other things. So, I would say, um, just trying to keep working through what we can in that area and we' ; re working on it. We' ; re spending lots of money on it. I can' ; t think of anything particular. We' ; re--I' ; m excited to have the bridges done in a few months. That has been something that was talked about long before I got on the council. So, I think that would be a--a big plus to the community to get that traffic flow. Brown: That' ; s great. So, Sharon, I would like to kind of conclude this interview with giving you an opportunity to just--if there' ; s anything we haven' ; t covered. I--I do have one more question that I kind of have been thinking about in terms of my-- Knowing you for so many years, one of the things that I appreciate so much about you is your continually willingness and outreach to all the people that you' ; ve known for so long, which is, I' ; m sure, a growing number every year. How do you--how do you continue to keep in contact with this growing number of friends and colleagues that you have grown over the course of your time here in San Marcos? Jenkins: Um, let' ; s see. I don' ; t know. How do any of us do that? I think you just make an effort to--to get together with people and have meet-ups and, um, see them at different events. I try to, when things are going on within the city, I try to email people that I know would have an interest in that. And almost always I get emails back saying, " ; Wow. You know, we really appreciate that, because we don' ; t--we don' ; t have access to that. And so, we' ; re glad to hear about something." ; Just, you know, again just doing your best to try to reach out to people. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: And--and see them when you can. Brown: Uh-huh. Well, I certainly think that makes you a very effective leader in our community in terms of keeping in t--touch with the way people feel. And I appreciate it. Jenkins: Thank you. I think another thing that' ; s important too is, um, as things have changed in the recent years, I think it is important for--for future councils and--and to understand that even though we' ; re in voting districts, I think it' ; s important that we represent all of San Marcos. Brown: Yeah. Jenkins: Um, I' ; m in a particular district but I reach out to people in other districts all the time. Listening is the best thing we can do. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: And responding to questions. Brown: Yeah. So, in closing, is there anything else you' ; d like to share with us that we haven' ; t covered today, but you' ; d like our audience to hear. Jenkins: Let' ; s see. I would say that I' ; m just very pleased that I' ; ve been able to live in one town for so long. Growing up I, you know, you always think, " ; Oh, I just want to get out of here." ; But I' ; m glad that I' ; ve--I' ; ve been here as long as I have. I' ; m glad my daughters--one lives here. Her--her two children are going to San Marcos schools. In fact, one of them is going to Discovery Elementary and I was one of the founding PTO board members of that. So, that' ; s kind of fun to go back and see that school. And then my other daughter' ; s nearby in San Diego. So, I think being able to see them enjoy what' ; s going on here in North County--that, things that, you know, I enjoyed growing up. And they' ; re now realizing that--that it' ; s a good place. Brown: Absolutely. Jenkins: Yeah. Brown: All right. Jenkins: Thank you for having me. Brown: Well, thank you very much for your time today and this concludes our interview for the North County Oral History Initiative. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=JenkinsSharon_BrownTanis_2023-02-02_access.xml JenkinsSharon_BrownTanis_2023-02-02_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
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Jenkins, Sharon. Interview, February 2, 2023
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Sharon Jenkins was born in Quincy, Massachusetts, grew up in Scituate, Mass., and moved to Lake San Marcos, California in 1971 where she attended San Marcos High School. She was a business major in college; after college she worked in the accounting profession for 15 years. Her involvement as a parent volunteer led her to run for San Marcos City School Board where Jenkins served for 14 years. Jenkins was elected to San Marcos City Council in 2012 and will complete her final term in 2024. She is also a Realtor. The interview focuses primarily on her high school years and her experiences serving on San Marcos' School Board and City Council.
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SC027-33
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Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
Public administration -- California -- San Marcos
School boards -- California -- San Marcos
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2023-02-02
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video
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Sharon Jenkins
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Tanis Brown
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Sharon Jenkins
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Moving image
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
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Ayana Ford
Interviewee
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Jamaéla Johnson
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=JohnsonJamaela_FordAyana_2021-04-30_access.xml
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CSUSM Alumni;Black Student Center;Black Alumni;Black Hair Movement;, Black Lives Matter;Historically Black Colleges and Universities
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6.0 Johnson, Jamaéla. Interview April 30th, 2021. SC027-06 01:27:19 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Black Student Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm CSUSM Alumni ; Black Student Center ; Black Alumni ; Black Hair Movement ; , Black Lives Matter ; Historically Black Colleges and Universities Jamaéla Johnson Ayana Ford moving image JohnsonJamaela_FordAyana_2021-04-30_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d1cb5006f34388220bea424317dbad95.mp4 Other video 0 Introduction Oral history interview of Jamaéla Johnson, April 30th, 2021, by Ayana Ford, University Library, California State University San Marcos. 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 41 Childhood Johnson briefly discusses her childhood in southeastern region of San Diego and her appreciation for growing up with people who look like her. southeastern San Diego ; only child ; culturally dense 0 [""] 128 Discovering an understanding of Blackness Johnson speaks about how her experience in school including her first teachers of color contributed to her belief that she was capable of excelling in education. values ; gifted and talented education ; GATE ; academics ; teachers of color ; potential 0 ["[\"\"]"] 284 Learning about Black history and the Black experience in childhood and adolescence Johnson talks about her exposure to Black history in school, which was superficial at first but became deeper as she as she got into high school and joined the Black Coal and Rose Society. Black history ; Rosa Parks ; Malcom X ; Black Coal and Rose Society ; Black History Month ; Garrett Morgan ; Ida B. Wells ; Civil Rights Movement ; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 0 ["[\"[\\\"[\\\\\\\"[\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"[\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"]\\\\\\\"]\\\"]\"]"] 493 Personal impact of Black activism and social justice movements Johnson reflects on how the Civil Rights Movement, Black feminism, and the natural hair movement played an important part in her identity development. Civil Rights Movement ; natural hair movement ; Black feminism ; Women's Center, Gender Equity Center, Historically Black Colleges and Universities ; HBCUs 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1314 Impact of the Black Lives Matter movement Johnson discusses her early recollections of the Black Lives Matter movement, with the death of Trayvon Martin. She talks about the impact of police brutality and her identity formation around being a Black student in a predominantly white institution. Black Lives Matter ; Trayvon Martin trial ; police brutality ; predominantly white institution 0 [""] 1590 Johnson’s role in the establishment of the Black Student Center Johnson speaks about her role as Vice President of Student University Affairs for Associate Students Incorporated (ASI) and how this role afforded her the ability to listen to students needs and understand their desires for a Black Student Center. She was able to then convey this information to the campus administration. During this time, she was also a member of the first all-women of color executive team for ASI. Black Student Center ; Associated Students Incorporated ; diversity and inclusion ; student advocacy ; Tiffaney Boyd ; Bianca Garcia ; Black African American fraternities and sororities ; leadership ; women of color 0 [""] 2080 Vision of the students and faculty for the Black Student Center Johnson discusses the top three priorities for a Black Student Center: community, mentorship, and scholarship. community ; mentorship ; scholarship ; vision ; Black Student Center 0 [""] 2289 University Administration’s vision for the Black Student Center Johnson speaks about two administrative priorities for the Black Student Center: acknowledging student voices and creating a vehicle for student success of some of CSUSM’s most vulnerable populations. She also discusses other campus centers that could be used as a blueprint for the Black Student Center. student success ; resolution ; blueprint ; Women's Center ; Gender Equity Center ; LGBTQ Pride Center ; California Indian Culture and Sovereignty Center ; Latinx Center 0 [""] 2452 Opposition to the creation of the Black Student Center Johnson reflects on the opposing viewpoints and tensions preceding the approval of the Black Student Center. During this time, ASI passed a resolution in favor of creating a Black Student Center but not without opposing viewpoints being shared. A list of demands was also created and sent to University administration. Black Student Center ; resistance to change ; finances ; Compton Cookout ; Black Lives Matter ; Black Power movement ; Black Student Union ; demands ; resolution ; opposing views ; task force ; Associated Students Incorporated ; heightened police presence 0 [""] 3334 The process of opening the Black Student Center Johnson discusses the lead up to the opening of the Black Student Center, including the development of a task force, budget approval, and allocated physical space. task force ; budget ; Black Student Center ; University Student Union ; physical space ; renovation 0 [""] 3561 The Black Student Center Grand Opening Johnson reflects on the grand opening of the Center, her transition from student to staff, and sitting in on the first Black Student Center director search. grand opening ; rewarding ; transition to staff ; Akilah Green ; Tiffaney Boyd ; director 0 [""] 3676 Leaders on the Black Student Center project, their contributions, and unsung heroes Johnson lists organizations and people who were instrumental in the development of the Black Student Center and reflects on the connections she made through the process. Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán ; MEChA ; Kai Guzman ; Dr. Sharon Elise ; Geoffrey Gilmore ; Dr. Dang Chonwerawong ; Akilah Green ; Tiffaney Boyd ; Bianca Garcia ; Louis Adamsel ; Jake Northington ; Daniel Fare ; Dr. Lorena Checa ; President Karen Haynes ; graduation ; connections 0 [""] 4033 Early focus of the Black Student Center’s initiatives, programming, events Johnson lists some of the early initiatives of the Black Student Center including collaborations to bring in prominent Black speakers and connections with local community colleges. University Hour ; Unity Hour ; community building, community colleges ; Miracosta College ; Tulsa Race Riots ; Black Wall Street ; Dr. Cornell West ; Black Faculty and Staff Association ; collaboration ; Black Panther Party ; women’s appreciation 0 [""] 4479 Insight on the main purpose of establishing the Black Student Center and its role as students return to campus post-Covid Johnson discusses how the main purpose of the Black Student Center is to have a space for Black students, faculty, and staff to be able to meet and fellowship with one another. This will be even more important as people return to campus post-Covid closure. fellowship ; Covid ; return to campus ; one-stop shop 0 [""] 4643 The Black Student Center's impact on the campus community Johnson talks about how the Black Student Center is bringing awareness to topics that affect Black people and exposing people within the campus community to specific topics and conversations. Black Student Center ; campus community ; natural hair ; Black Lives Matter ; policy ; community-based learning ; police brutality 0 [""] 4804 Personal impact of the Black Student Center on Johnson Johnson reflects on how the process and the development of the Black Student Center impacted her, leading her to believe in herself and in support of a village. She also talks about how she learned to never take no for an answer. support ; doubts ; fears ; potential ; persistence 0 [""] 4958 Future expectations of the Black Student Center Johnson shares what she would like to see for the Black Student Center in the future, including space expansion, increased funding for staffing, and additional partnerships. space expansion ; funding ; staffing ; recruitment ; Black Faculty and Staff Association ; partnerships ; Omega Psi Phi ; Sigma Gamma Rho 0 ["[\"\"]"] 5144 Johnson's final thoughts about the Black Student Center In conclusion, Johnson shares her hopes that the Black Student Center will continue to fulfill its purpose, expand, and endure over time. purpose ; endurance ; expansion ; future 0 [""] Oral history Jamaéla Johnson is an alumna of California State University San Marcos. While at CSUSM, she worked in various capacities on campus with the Gender Equity Center, the Black Student Union, and Associated Students Incorporated (ASI). Much of her work involved talking and working with fellow students regarding their shared needs around campus. In her interview, Johnson discusses her roles in advocating for the Black Student Center, as well as the journey towards the Center's opening. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:25.000 Today is Friday, April 30th, 2021 at 11:05 a.m. I am Ayana Ford, a student at CSU (California State University) San Marcos, and today I'm interviewing Jamaéla Johnson for the Black Student Center Oral History Project, a collaboration with CSUSM Black Student Center and the CSU (San Marcos) University Library Special Collections. Thank you for being here. Is it okay if we start with talking with-- 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.000 Thank you for having me. 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:33.000 Is it okay if we start by talking about your childhood, when and where were you born? 00:00:33.000 --> 00:01:51.000 Oh sure. You just said, when was I born? When and where? Okay. I was born on (redacted), which happens to be (redacted). In San Diego to my lovely parents, Joe and Shirley Johnson, and I was the only child. So, growing up in San Diego, specifically the southeastern region of San Diego, where it's primarily Black and Latino population was very, I would say culturally dense, and I appreciated being able to grow up around folks that look like me and even from just different cultures and backgrounds, where I was able to experience a lot that I feel influenced my childhood. 00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:07.000 So that actually brings me to my next question. So, it helps you culturally, so you were saying, it helped you to culturally grow up. So how specifically when it comes to like understanding of your culture and your Blackness, how did your childhood affect it? 00:02:07.000 --> 00:04:31.000 I think it definitely was beneficial to be within a community and be brought up in a school system that reflected the things that I valued as a person, as a Black woman or a Black girl at the time and being able to be in, there was a program when I was growing up in elementary school called the GATE program (gifted and talented education), and it was like the gifted and talented, like something and where you were on this, like special track, where you, I guess were grouped with other students that scored in the same standardized test range as you--We were afforded different opportunities and field trips and to help cope with, not cope, but to help pair with the things that we were learning in the classroom and so being in that program exposed me to students that look like me that were excelling essentially in school and academics, as well as being able to see and be with my first teachers of color, and I think that was very pivotal in establishing my foundation with growing, and the different school systems that I attended afterwards, with just knowing who I was and knowing and having, I guess, faith and belief in my potential as well as the capabilities that I had to excel in education. And so, I think that was very, just very critical and just super-duper important basically (laughs) to the, I feel like who I have developed as today. 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:43.000 Okay. So, were you taught a lot about Black history and the Black experience in your childhood particularly, like in your lessons, et cetera? 00:04:43.000 --> 00:07:53.000 In my childhood I would say that I was exposed to a good amount of Black history, but I think it was very, you know, like the kind of like superficial level or key coders within, like the Civil Rights Movement and things like that. So you have your, Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, a little bit of Malcolm X, and I think as growing up within, I would say high school going into college is when I got to learn a lot more about, like my people as African American history by taking like I remember in high school I was a part of a (word inaudible) called, Black Coal and Rose Society--shout out to Miss Shaunda--that we, during Black History Month, we were, we decided to participate in this like Black history presentation, and she challenged us to try to research Black African Americans, like individuals that we didn't already know, that weren't the people that were usually in conversations when talking about Black history. And so, with that, that's when I was able to dive a little deeper in my research on the internet and be exposed to folks like Garrett Morgan and Ida B. Wells and just dive in deeper to see that there were more people that contributed to this movement. And then from there being able to go to college and select my classes to be able to deliberately take like an African American history course or even just from the past but also like modern day history, as well, with folks that are continuing to contribute to this movement and us as a people. So that was, that was very exciting but I felt like I got kind of my foundation with having conversations with my parents and specifically my grandparents that told me about their experiences with growing up in the rural South in like Monticello and Selma, Arkansas, and their experience in cotton fields and on farms and things like that and then being able to build upon that once I was able to go to like high school and then in college. 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:57.000 Ok. So, how-- 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.000 I hope I’m like – oh, sorry (laughing) 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:14.000 (laughing) You’re okay. How has the Black social justice and activism, such as Cvil Rights Movement, feminism, the natural hair movement, and the Black Lives Matter movement affected you? 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:24.000 Oh, that is a question. Let me make sure I have all the movements-- 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.000 We can go— 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:31.000 --that you listed. So, you said the natural hair, civil rights. 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.000 We can go one at a time if you want. So, we can start off with the Civil Rights Movement. 00:08:35.000 --> 00:10:24.000 Okay. Let's do the--okay. There we go. The Civil Rights Movement, gosh, I feel like that is such a pivotal point in our history, both being like African American, Black, as well as just American history. Just that I feel like Black African American folks went to, went through, in order to get like simple liberties that were afforded to them, and I think that was like, that influenced what I do today to be able to speak up, and if I feel like there is something that's not right like in my heart or even in my gut, to be able to stand on the shoulders of, to be, like to address it and feel confident about that when doing so because knowing about what folks went through, through the Civil Rights Movement with like, with voting rights and just being able to be people and be recognized as human beings, mind you, this is in like the 1950s and sixties, which is fairly recent. So, it's hard to not be able to look back in that particular movement because it was just like so, so, so close (laughs) for a lack of a better word, but yeah. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:30.000 So, how about the feminism and the natural hair movement? How did those directly affect you? 00:10:30.000 --> 00:14:07.000 Feminism, especially Black feminism, plays such a major role in my identity development especially with coming to a, to San Marcos and not really being exposed to like the feminist movement or even knowing, having an idea about what that was. I never knew until I stepped foot on campus and, in particular, within the Women's Center at the time. So I began undergrad in 2011, yes, August of 2011, at Cal State San Marcos and, that my freshman year was when I decided to apply to the Women's Center that was on campus and so, fortunately, I guess I must’ve said something right because I was hired, I believe my title was like the Communications and Outreach Specialist and I just love, absolutely loved the environment that my supervisor at the time, her name was, (unclear) that she cultivated within the space, where it was so welcoming to folks that identified as women but also folks that didn't and wanted to also learn about the everyday struggles and theories within like feminism, and then she also opened the space for us as a staff to get connected with one another but also continue to strengthen our knowledge base and development as feminists within this space. And so, I felt like that was just so like crucial in my identity development and being able to recognize and bring on that identity within me so I really, I truly appreciate that opportunity as my first job ever was on campus at the, at Cal State San Marcos Women's Center, now Gender Equity Center, and being able to spend some of my most formative developmental years within that space. That I think led to just a lot of, I put it into words, but just being around folks that were just like-minded and were basically just like bad-ass feminists, like that's just what they were and being able to really back behind that movement and it was folks of all different shapes, colors, creeds, everything, men, women, transgender individuals, like you name it. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.000 Mmm-hmm. 00:14:09.000 --> 00:21:42.000 Just being able to be a part of [unclear] and like, well, we can say, like, when I tell you it just exposed my whole mind, I'm like, We can talk about like sexual orientation and all this stuff? Like what? I cannot believe this. This is how I knew I was like in a total different world. But it was so freeing and just being in that space and Take Back the Night, like all these events that are probably--I don't know if they still do them now--but just all of these events about women empowerment and about embracing survivors and believing survivors and just about terminology with inclusive language and just all that stuff. I never looked guys in such a critical sense before being a part of the Women's Center, and I'm all like, Wow. Just like how, like, it's like the patriarchy is (unclear) in the language. I'm like, Oh my gosh. (laughs) So just coming from there and then just with the feminist and even Black feminism leading into the natural hair journey, I can remember this like it was yesterday, my God. So, being a part of the Women's Center, Gender Equity Center, for like my sophomore and junior year goes, and then, I believe, that’s when I started thinking about—no--that's when, during that same time I was also involved in the Black Student Union, and one of my good, good, good friends, her name is Akilah Green, she was the President of Blacks, of the Black Student Union, and I was the Vice President of Black Student Union, but Akilah was somebody that I always had looked up to. ‘Cause I remember like my first year on campus going to U-Hour (University Hour), and I see this bold, vibrant personality in the middle of the quad which is like in front of the library because we didn't have a student union at the time--in front of the library--and she is just like, has so much energy, she's like, that way and I'm like, Who is this person and how can I be her? Because she has this, all this energy, this liveliness and I was like, I want to be her friend. So, from that initial moment to us being a part of the Black Student Union and being a part of the leadership within the Black Student Union, we were able to kind of like mash our strengths together and say, Hey, like, this is happening in our community--we like, we always talked about Historically Black Colleges and Universities, which are HBCUs for short, and so I remember she was like, I'm going to a HBCU, I'm going to HBCU, and I remember I was like, What is a HBCU? At the time (unclear) like colleges or universities were, and I was like, what? And so, fortunately for me, she never transferred to an HBCU, which led us to like the leadership of the Black Student Union, and so, since we weren't able to go to those campuses as students, we’re like Well, let's bring some of that culture here to Cal State San Marcos. And so, I think that's when she developed the brainchild of having a natural hair show. So, I believe it was in 2015 or fourteen--it was either 2014 or fifteen. I think it was fifteen, though, when the Black Student Union had our first natural hair show and the first one I remember was a short presentation including two videos of, I remember it was like two controversial like hair-related things that happened in the news, where either somebody was getting like their hair cut, I don't know if it was their dreads or something else. It wasn't the wrestling one because that actually happened way after, but it was two controversial videos and then there was a presentation about where not loving your hair stemmed from to like modern day and then going into the natural hair movement and so hair show it was about that. The first half we had that and then we had a runway, where students and like staff, faculty, and community members can participate with being a model in the runway portion, which was like the second half and then I think at the end is when we had like a small little circle, where we were able to come together and talk about natural hair remedies, what type of products are good for certain hair textures and some things like--And we just had this heart-to-heart circle and so mind you, for the first natural hair show, it was maybe like fifteen people, maybe fifteen people, and it was all women at the time and where, I have attended like recently where it has just expanded so much, where there's been so many like different (student identity and inclusion) centers and stuff that have also took that on and being able to add to it and develop it from that. But, I'll never forget that that first initial natural hair show and the purpose behind it and the empowerment that I received from that, which planted the baby seed in my head like, I've got to cut my hair, so that didn't come ‘til like about (audio cuts out) to your chop, but I felt like that was definitely a very pivotal moment with attending that first natural hair show to be able to embrace my natural hair texture, to be able to gain the confidence enough to be on that journey and know that I wasn't by myself. So, if I did decide to do the big chop and what, and the things that come with that--both positive and negative--that I had a village around me. So, I feel like with those two movements in particular, the feminist movement combined with the natural hair movement, that helped me find my safe space, or my brave space, to be able to engage in both of those things. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:52.000 Oh, wow. I'm so glad you're able to find that space. So, how did the Black Lives Matter movement affect you? 00:21:52.000 --> 00:26:24.000 Wow. The Black Lives Matter movement, my goodness. Gosh, just like the other things that I've mentioned I think it's like a compilation of everything, Civil Rights Movement, Black feminism, natural hair movement, Black Lives Matter. Like it's kinda’ like the (unclear) of all those things combined, and for, me with the Black Lives Matter, the first time I really heard about it, the movement was in 2012 and that was tensions around the Trayvon Martin trial, the what had happened, everything, so that's when I first started hearing about the Black Lives Matter movement. And then from 2012 to now it's still very relevant and very, I feel, necessary. Gosh, especially in the world that we're currently living in with police brutality and--not like that's been a recent development because police brutality has been around for centuries, like centuries, well before I even got here, honestly probably well before even founders of the Black Lives Matter movement was even alive. But for that to be something that is still, something that we're still fighting for and just to be recognized as human beings and for just having that movement to be able to like to reflect those thoughts and things. I think it's very important for folks that are growing up now, especially Black folks that are growing up now, to be able to have something to hold onto and I think that's what the Black Lives Matter movement represents is for folks that look like us to be able to grapple onto that and that's like a support system. But I think with the Black Lives Matter movement, it really influenced my, the way I looked at myself at a predominantly white institution as a Black student and being more conscious of who I was on campus and what community I identified with and so at the time, where the Black Lives Matter movement was gaining more traction within the media was when like--and then and allies and folks was like, Hey, like this is also affecting us as well. This is not just in Florida. This is not just in freaking Ferguson, Missouri. This is not just in these rural are, areas that are so far away from us, like this actually happens here in like our state, as well, and so from that movement is where I feel like Black students especially had to be on a kind of like a united front and realize that we need a community, we need a space, we need support on this campus and at the time the Black population--the Black student population at Cal State San Marcos--was like 3%. And I don't think much has changed since then, but we're like, We're a part of this 3%, and even though we're like a small percentage, we still want to be recognized, we still want our voices to be heard, and we need to be supported as such. 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:31.000 So, what role did you play in the establishment in the Black Student Center? 00:26:31.000 --> 00:34:22.000 What role did I play? Hmm. (laughs]) That is a good question. For me, I would say overall I feel like I played the role of the sound board for a lot of the students on campus. I say this because at the time before the establishment of the Black Student Center, I was a part of Associated Students Incorporated (ASI), which is the student governing body at Cal State San Marcos, and I remember my first position within student government was the student Rep At-Large for Diversity and Inclusion. I think that that was the title then. And I really, and I think I was the first person because they went into like this whole like title changing, role changing thing through ASI and it was the first time within that title was being available for students and so, I was able to run for that and got voted in that position and that position, in itself, I feel like helped catapult me in this whole student advocacy and policy kind of realm that I wasn't necessarily exposed to before. So, being able to serve in that position afforded me the opportunity to be able to serve on different university committees, where the only student representation might have been just me. And so, being able to be in those meetings with like vice presidents and associate vice presidents and deans and different staff on campus, to be able to be that student voice that is all through a diversity lens, that was just amazing. Both an amazing opportunity, an opportunity, but also a frustrating opportunity, as well, because just being sometimes the only student voice there and thinking that some of these conversations or some of these topics that I'm bringing up that, Of course, you all should know about this. I thought this was like common knowledge, but at the time and in those spaces, knowing that actually it wasn't common knowledge and being able to have patience but also the courage to actually say something within those meetings, in those spaces, too. So I think with that position kind of helped expose me to that--to those spaces—and from there, I was like, I really like being a part of these conversations, because I felt like I was being able to enact change through that, by bringing student voices to the table, but also bringing light to voices that are not necessarily always looked at or have been in the margins and being able to bring those voices as well to those settings. So that was such a great experience and that led me to staying a part of student government and then eventually running for the Vice President of University--Student and University Affairs--and so that was the year, I think that year was 2015-16, where myself, Tiffaney Boyd, and Bianca Garcia made up the first all-women of color exec team, and so that was what, like five years ago. Yeah. The first all-women of color exec team, us three. So, Tiffaney Boyd served as President and CEO of ASI. I served as the Vice President of Student University Affairs, and then Bianca Garcia served as the Executive Vice President. And so, within our roles, we were able I feel like to do things that we had set our minds to do at the beginning of our campaign, and I would say before even beginning my role as VP--the acronym is VP SUA--as VP SUA, I had already, I already knew what the conversations were on campus. I knew what students were talking about. I knew what students were passionate about, what they were yearning for. And I was like, I remember making a list--I think it was like maybe the summer before we started our term--of the top priorities, for me like myself, and for the students that I had conversations with was about having a Black Student Center on campus, a Black space, to be able to have Black African American fraternities and sororities on campus either--at the time it was like either/or--and then it was those, I think those are like the primarily two biggest things within that list and, being able to see both of those things come to fruition from like the very beginning until like the end of our term and graduating (unclear) things that are still on campus today, I think was extremely, extremely rewarding and as we mentioned I feel like all of those steps from like the beginning to, from like elementary school to like high school and then eventually to college, the people that I was able to meet it and so I would say at the time, I was VP student, VP SUA, but I would say like the role that I played with students that wanted this to be done and I felt like I tried to do everything within my power and within my role to be able to make that happen or at least have folks hear us out. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:30.000 So, what do you think was the vision from the students and the faculty for the Black Student Center? 00:34:30.000 --> 00:37:47.000 The vision, I--let's see. I think the top three priorities that the students and faculty had for the Black Student Center was number one, a space to be able to develop community ; number two, the opportunity for mentorship, a space where students, faculty, and staff could come together ; and then also number three, I would just say that priority would, was scholarship. Community, mentorship, and then scholarship. Those were like the three main priorities that I remember hearing from students, staff, and faculty was to be able to have this space that could encompass all three. I remember having conversations with folks within the Black Faculty and Staff Association (BFSA), with faculty of color within various departments on campus, as well as Black and actually just students of color on campus to say that they wanted a space where they were given permission to be themselves. And I think that was something that before the Black Student Center, didn't exist on campus. There were different centers that played a role in trying to help and create and open that space for Black students, but I felt like there was just something missing, and so I think with the creation of the Black Student Center, it created that space for students, faculty, and staff and then being able with that space comes mentorship because there's this one focal point, where all these populations can come together. And then with like scholarship, to be able to have like this entity, this institutionalized entity, that can potentially fundraise and have, and be able to give out like scholarships eventually, and be able to help fund students with their academics and things like that. So, I think those were, that was the vision and the priorities for students, faculty, and staff on campus of the Black Student Center. 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:55.000 So, to kind of piggyback off that, what do you think the university administration communicated was their vision? 00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:00.000 What do I think the university’s vision was? 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.000 Yeah. The administration. 00:38:05.000 --> 00:40:39.000 Hmm. The administration. I think their vision was for the Black Student Center was student success. I think that with the administration, they heard our voices, they heard ASI’s resolution, they heard actual student voices at town hall meetings, they heard these in staff meetings with faculty and staff. I think they heard us and they acknowledged us by being able to support us or actually come together as a team to be able to bring this student center to fruition, and I think for the university administrators, for them, I think it was number one, acknowledging that--acknowledging us and our voice--and then number two, also being able to be, the Center being a vehicle for student success of some of our most vulnerable populations. And I think that was probably, I think that was like the two biggest things of what they saw the Black Student Center being as. Because it wasn't the first and nor do I think it will be the last student services center that will be on campus. But I feel like they've had a necessary blueprint with the Women's Center, now Gender Equity Center, the LGBTQ Pride Center, and the California, California Indian (Culture and) Sovereignty Center. Like they've seen these centers and how they can be resources and support for student success and so I just think it was just a, a natural but also inevitable direction into the, into the development of the Latino (Latinx) Center that is there now and the Black Student Center as well. 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:52.000 So, do you know of any pushback or anything external or internal that going, people were trying to go against the opening of Black Student Center? 00:40:52.000 --> 00:55:25.000 Shoot, the opening of it, there was pushback before it was even a, a thought (laughs). Before it was even a thought. Oh gosh, and it's so funny cause kind of look at, I feel like I haven't really thought about this and so like reflected on just the steps that took to get there. But, wow, yeah there was pushback, and I think it was something that wasn't surprising because I think with change there's always, there's always some resistance to change. And so, with the Black Student Center, I feel like throughout it all, we had more support than opposition with the Black Student Center and from its infancy stage of when--let me think, let me think-- the infancy stage. So, I would bring that back to from going back to when I was telling you that I had made, at the beginning of my term as VP, I remember it even with seeing that on paper and trying to like say like this is going to happen, there was doubts even then ‘cause I'm like, ‘cause even with like with these spaces cost money and at the time we were like, Okay, we're already paying so much for tuition. Students don't want to pay no more fees. The university is like kind of gridlock right now because, you know, the recession and all this stuff like it was like and so for the, even for us to even think of the possibility of establishing a Black Student Center there were all those things that it was already going against it as far as doubts in the mind. But once you know different political and social movements started to gain traction and more Black student voices were being highlighted within campuses, and I remember there was like right down the street at the University of California, San Diego, UCSD, they had the Compton Cookout. They had the Compton Cookout where it was like predominantly white students. I think it was like a white fraternity decided to throw this party where they did blackface and had like durags and bandanas and like it just the whole playing different stereotypes and tropes of like the Black community and different things like that. And this was a campus that was literally like thirty-two miles away us and from that and having the Black Lives Matter movement and having all these police brutality cases and incidents and all this happening and gaining traction it actually almost reminded me of the 1960s, like Black Power movement, where you saw like a lot of Black and African American students at universities, like making their voices heard, fighting back with administration and making demands and being free to who they wanted to be. So, it kind of reminded me--I think that we're in this moment like right now. It has come full circle, and the movement that we're doing is like Black Lives Matters now and so it's just crazy to see how that evolved from there. So, like from that having all of this and having students like around the nation, Black students around the nation making demands and like, You know what, we're not asking permission anymore. Like we're not asking permission, and we need these things to happen in order for us to be successful. And so, from that environment and then going into specifically at Cal State San Marcos, President Karen Haynes had a town hall meeting about, I think it was about student success and retention, and I remember there were students there, were some students there that had organized to address the President about what are these things that, what are you and your administration governance at Cal State San Marcos. And so many students were coming up to let their voice be heard by asking these direct questions to the President of the university at the time. And I remember with, walking into that meeting because, of course, I had my hat on as the VP of Student University Affairs, so, I'm here representing ASI and so was a lot of my other--I'm there to represent ASI and hear what students had to say. So, just being there and feeling just the energy in the room, but then also walking in and noticing that there are like police officers on the roof and there's like heightened police security because I guess people just assume that this was going to be a very tense town hall meeting. And I'm all like, These are students. These are students. What was the point of having all this heightened police security? And like, that was like the first time I ever seen police officers like on the roof. Our UPD (University Police Department) on the roof and like just in the surrounding areas and feel like the town--the town hall was at, is it University Hall 101? It's like that big like lecture--Oh, it's not University Hall, it’s Academic Hall. Yeah, all this, like police everywhere, but in the hall being able to be in there and see that, and I feel like that was also kind of like, whether they knew it or not, or whether it wasn't intentional or not, that was also like something like a tactic to be like of intimidation. Like you're coming to this town hall where you kind of want to express how your experience as a Black student on this campus and you're like sitting here asking the university and its administration about how they're going to support you and then you have all this police presence. So, I think that was also an example of just kind of some pushback and whether it was intentional or not, no one knows for sure. But that was just something that it still impacts, you know, the environment. And then, so from that initial town hall to like the Black Student Union at the time writing like a letter, which wasn't necessarily a list of demands, or was it? I can't quite remember, but I know it was like the Black Student Center, I mean, not the Black Student Center, Black Student Union kind of writing this organized letter like a formal letter of everything that was kind of communicated within that town hall written on paper to send to (unclear). So, like after that town hall, she was like, I hear you, reached out to like the Black Student Union and was like, can you formalize all of your requests, write them down in a document or a letter, and be able to deliver it to my office? And so, the Black Student Union was able to do that and within that letter was the formation of a Black Student Center among other things. I can't really remember what it was word-for-word, but (unclear) the letter off to President Haynes and then I think like about like a month or so later, she addressed the campus community that she was putting together a Black Student Center Task Force that would look into the funding options and to be able to develop basically like a blueprint and everything about the formation of a possible center. So, once that happened, it was like, Oh, wow, that’s (unclear) to this. And then at the same point in time, I believe the ASI—'cause one role that the student government can play is that if there is something that we would want university administration to support, like an initiative that we would want university administration to support--we do what is called a resolution, and so at that moment, and I believe it was like February of 2016, is when we had our (unclear) in where one of the things on the agenda was a Black Student Center resolution. And so, there was this support resolution that was like backed by various faculty, departments, student organizations--both on campus and off campus--even statewide that was backed, everything on this and I think you can actually look at the resolution on Cal State San Marcos’ website. They have a list of resolutions there. But it was backed by so many people, and it was supported by just people both on and off campus. And so, I remember having this AS general body meeting in February, mind you it’s Black History Month, and that's when tensions arose, like that--if pushback was coming to a head, it was at that meeting. And that's where we saw, you know, our supporters and then we also saw people that opposed it as well. Not necessarily the guests that were there but also members of our (ASI) board that represented the different colleges that were on our campus that were, that opposed the resolution. And so, that was by far like the tensest board meeting I had ever attended. And that's where we saw it on our board that clearly stated that like, that slavery didn't build the foundation of our nation. Like, you can just see like the different opposing views and arguments just within the room and yeah, it is, it's just so hard to articulate at this moment. But just being there and being present and listening to opposition’s arguments, and I hear the voices of the folks that supported the resolution, but in the end, after all that deliberation, the resolution ended up passing and so we were able to send that resolution to also President Haynes as like the official like stamp of student voices that this is what the student body wants and accompanied with the Black Student Union (BSU) letter of like demands and stuff like that. And so, from that, it was the Task Force developed and so many people served on that community, that committee and from there, I think from there that's when things started, you know, kind of steam rolling ahead. But yeah, I feel like there was pushback from like the very beginning from even getting it from just this thought or idea or vision to the actual fruition of it. 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:35.000 So, after that the Black Student Center was opened--after all the deliberation? 00:55:35.000 --> 00:58:27.000 So after, let's see, so we had the town hall meeting, there was the ASI meeting for, to pass the resolution. There was the BSU letter of like demands and then the Task Force was created and then after the Task Force and the budgetary things were kind of outlined, it went to another committee within the university, I think it was the university’s like, I forget, I forget what the acronym is now, but it was like the university's budgetary committee, and then it passed then, and then that's when like, the construction and stuff started for the Black Student Center. So, at this time, the University Student Union was already created, and it was already up and running and where the Black Student Center sits now (unclear) tranquility room, it was two tranquility rooms and like, an extra kitchen area, I think for that, I think it's that Jazzman’s, Jazzman's coffee shop there. And then, so they ended up relocating like the tranquility room and things, and like (unclear) of like the space, because the goal was to have it a part, to be with the rest of the student centers. So, since there was no more room on the third floor of the University Student Union because I believe it's like the Pride Center, Gender Equity Center, the Latino (Latinx) Center, because before the Latino(x) Center that was a social justice and diversity library in that space. So, they had renovated that space, made that to, made that the Latino(x) center and then there was the Cross-Cultural Center. Since all those spaces were taken up on that third floor, they had renovated that fourth-floor section to be, to house the Black Student Center. And so construction, reconstruction for that I believe started in, started in 2016. Yeah. Like starting in 2016. And then yeah, it was ready for like the grand opening that following year. 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:34.000 And were you able to attend that grand opening? (technical difficulties) 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:35.000 --Sorry? 00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:38.000 Sorry. Oh, no, no continue. Sorry. You cut off oddly. 00:58:38.000 --> 00:59:18.000 Oh, oh, okay. I said, so it does kind of seem a little fast, but I think all in all it was about like a three-year process, and I think what made it a little easier, too--and I won't necessarily say easier--but I feel like there was already kind of like a foundation and blueprint kind of laid out with the Latino(x) Center that had been created like I think a year or two before. So, they kind of engaged in the same process. Yeah. But you were saying about the grand opening? 00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:23.000 I was just asking, were you able to attend? 00:59:23.000 --> 01:01:03.000 I was and that was such a great experience. I was also able to sit in on the initial hiring cycle for the first Director of the Black Student Center. Because fortunately after I graduated, I was able to land a job in the Global Education Office on campus and so, I was able to transition from a student to staff and sit in on those meetings and hiring presentations. So, I was able to meet and connect with the Director of the, the first Director of the Black Student Center, and then I was able to attend the grand opening of the center, which happened to be in February of 2017, I believe, with Akilah (Green), who I said was so instrumental and connected me with (technical difficulties, unclear) on campus and (Tiffaney) Boyd, who was the sitting President while I was VP of ASI. And we were able to have, to share a few words at the ceremony and be a part of the whole, the whole celebration. And so, that was very, very rewarding to see something that I feel like we had put so much energy into to finally come back to campus and see it as an actual space. 01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:16.000 So, to kind of go back here. So, do you have any specific names or groups of people that you want to say, talk about who like helped with the opening of the Black Student Center? 01:01:16.000 --> 01:06:35.000 Oh my gosh. Oh, I wish I could like, could have thought about this to write down a list! But, oh my gosh, goodness, I am going to start from, let's see from the, I would say from like the bottom up because it was (grass)roots initiative. First, I would like to thank, or I would like to give recognition to the student organizations that helped support the Black Student Center initiative, and there was so many, there was, and if I forget anybody charge it to my head and not my heart, please. It was the feminist was, it was the, what was that? What was that collective called? Of course, it was the Black Student Union. It was MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán) at the time. It was KA, I think it was Come Along, Come Along Alliance. I'm probably butchering that name, but KA. It was like a coalition of social justice something. It was a student organization that they contributed a lot. Specific names: Karen Guzman (transitioned to Kai Guzman) she was instrumental. Or--instrumental. Her pronouns are they now, so they, they were instrumental in helping to articulate and be at the forefront of voicing their specific experience on campus. They were just able to just share their support with, with the initiative. So big shout out to--oh, and they don't go by Karen Guzman anymore. It's Kai. Yes. Big shout out to Kai! Shout out to or bringing recognition to our Sociology Department. I believe she was the chair at the time, Dr. Sharon Elise, and Geoffrey Gilmore, doctor--Oh my gosh. The list goes on. Dr. Dang (Chonwerawong), she's no longer at the university anymore, but she was over like student support like services (Student Academic Support Services) and stuff like that. Dr. Dang. Gosh. Akilah Green, Tiffaney Boyd, Bianca Garcia, Louis Adamsel, Jake Northington, Daniel Fare, just, gosh there's so many people. But those folks as well as even the support of our administrators, such as Dr. Lorena Checa and President Haynes, President Karen Haynes, for being able to hear our voices and acknowledge them and also being able to support that. Yeah, gosh, I--that's so crazy. I'm totally blanking, but there was, there was so many people, so many people. I remember reflecting after like graduation how, after everything has settled down, and really thinking about like my journey as the student and the connections that I made and even how those connections and relationships played a role into like the development of the Center, and it was like, if I would have never did this, and I would have never met this person and this person, and we would’ve never been there in order to have this occur and like—so, I think the universe and God works in just extraordinary, amazing ways and just to see how everything just the small things and the intricacy of how relationships and building bridges can lead to so many, so many things. So, yeah, that's all, that's what I can remember for now, but as I mentioned, if I forget anyone, please charge it to my head and not my heart. 01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:54.000 (unclear) So can you tell me a little bit about the early initiatives and programs and events that the Black Student Center focused on after its opening? 01:06:54.000 --> 01:11:36.000 Gosh, let me think. I think that--I could remember a lot more--but that was like four years ago, and I guess I have a horrible memory. But I believe the events and stuff that the Black Student Center focused on was building community. So, with University Hour being a thing, so I think it was like Tuesdays and Thursdays from the hours of twelve and one is like a no class period and so having events that built community within that timeframe so that students can come and visit the space and also be able to meet people. I think that was like a big thing and so there were different, what were the talks called? There was like a series that they would have, (unclear) of a weekly thing where students could come. I think right now they have something called Unity Hour but before that, it was something else like (unclear) lunch and learn or something like that. I don't know. But I know that was a thing also with being able to bridge partnerships with the local community colleges. So, for Black African American students that were transferring to cultivate that relationship with the campuses there, so that way there will be a good transition, where students know like when they come to campus that this is a resource for them. I know that was a big thing and specifically with the Umoja program that was at MiraCosta (College) and then also being able to bring folks on campus like different speakers and things like that. I remember like a comedy show, where this pretty big comedian came, and that was pretty cool. Being able to attend an event with the Black Panther Party. So, members of the Black Panther Party came, and that was an event. Also, about the Tulsa, the Tulsa Race Riots that happened and so like Black Wall Street, with the city (district) of Greenwood (Tulsa, Oklahoma) so being able to have representatives that are a part of that history to come and actually shed light on that event that happened for foundations that are associated with that. Being able to see and take a picture with Dr. Cornell West. I thought I would never, ever like meet him before. And so, then being able to help and—also, I won't say that the Black Student Center was the sole department to put on these events--but they were able to work with in collaboration with other departments on campus as well. So, like the Office of Inclusive Excellence and (unclear) and all those different departments, too, they were able to collaborate together, as well as the Black Faculty and Staff Association. But to bring these prominent Black folks on campus and have students be able to meet these people or be able to hear like kind of what they have to say, give advice and things like that, so opening that opportunity, that's what they were able to do that bring those events, those larger scale events to campus, too. So, I would say like in the beginning the Center primarily focused on community building, making sure folks knew that the Center was there and for them to utilize, and also being able to bring these big names to campus and building relationships with the local community colleges in in the area. 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.000 So-- 01:11:39.000 --> 01:12:44.000 Oh, I would say, before I forget--because I remember this--I would say, one of the events that still sticks with me today, one of the first ones that the Black Student Center did was a Black women's appreciation luncheon, and that was our first time a center had held that on campus that I believe (unclear) Black women and where I was able to see a good amount of Black staff and faculty on campus that were able to come into the Black Student Center, like for the first time, and then actually receive a certification, not a certification, but a certificate and like free lunch of being appreciated. And so, I really appreciated that moment and being able to be a part of that. 01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:55.000 (Unclear) Do you know any of like wrinkles or problems that happened during the early days of the Black Student Center? 01:12:55.000 --> 01:14:28.000 Any wrinkles or problems? Let's see. Any wrinkles or problems. You know. Hmm. Not that I can really remember because in my experience at the time I was a staff, so I wasn't able to be in this space as much as like students were or other folks were, so I didn't really hear like too much about, especially if anything negative was happening in the Center. So as far as there being any like, can't really say too much about that because I wasn't, I wasn't privy to the information or anything like that. I think, only one thing that I can think of is like, I think just the formalities of hiring for student assistants. I think, I don't know if, yeah, how that went, but that's just stuff that I heard. 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:38.000 Okay. So, in your opinion, what do you think the main purpose of the Center's creation was? 01:14:38.000 --> 01:15:34.000 For me, I think the main purpose of the Black Student Center was to have a space for Black students, Black faculty, and Black staff to be able to meet and fellowship with one another. And with that, with folks being able to come in this space to build this community, I think, led and leads to mentorship, scholarship, and other opportunities that we’re not necessarily privy to when we're in our silos. But I think the Center creates that space for us to really come together and be able to, a knowledge tank basically and exchange knowledge with one another. 01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:38.000 Do you feel like that purpose is being accomplished as right now? 01:15:38.000 --> 01:16:50.000 Right now it's kind of hard ‘cause we're in Covid times, and you know, folks aren't necessarily on campus as of yet, but I think that if it's not being done right now, I think it's going to be even crucial for when students do return to campus and for students that are anticipating on applying to Cal State San Marcos, for those students to know that this is a space that they can come to when they need help, when they need support, when they need resources, when they need to be connected to somebody on campus. I feel like the Black Student Center should be that one-stop shop for those students that are looking for those answers. Yeah, I think the role that the Black Student Center plays is going to be even more important as students start to come back to campus, Black students just start to come back to campus and staff and faculty for that matter. 01:16:50.000 --> 01:17:00.000 So, do you, how do you think the Black Student Center affected the community, the campus community as a whole? 01:17:00.000 --> 01:19:46.000 As of right now? I think it has, gosh, I mean, that's kind of hard to say because I'm not on campus anymore, but I think what I could gather from just the different like emails and social media postings is that they're bringing awareness to topics that affect Black people, certain things that, and I think that is helping to expose folks within the campus community that haven't had the opportunity to engage in those types of topics or conversations, for them to be able to have the ability to now and present that space for them to be able to engage in those types of things as well. Like talking about natural hair and talking about even different policies and legislations that maybe other folks within the campus community didn't know about, weren't aware about or didn't know how that impacts, you know, students or Black students specifically. That's one thing, but also about just other different topics that we talk about with how important community-based learning is to Black people like and being able to explore their research (unclear) when they apply that to within the classroom or even outside of the classroom. Also, about just different, you know, current events that happened, um, within the world. So specifically like with the Black Lives Matter movement and police brutality and the different cases that are associated with that--being able to have that space to talk about those things, not just within our community but also within the campus community as well, to see how other folks are dealing with these types of things that happen and for there to be healthy conversations that can come with that. 01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:56.000 So how has the Black Student Center impacted you personally? I know you’ve touched on it a bit, but-- 01:19:56.000 --> 01:22:29.000 Yeah, Black Student Center impacted me personally. I would say it’s more like, I guess, theoretical than like literally because I wasn't able to experience this, the space, as a current student. But just the process and the development of this, of the Center, it had impacted me in so many ways to believe in myself and my potential, to believe in the support and the village, how necessary it is to have a village around you and have folks and relationships of support. It has also impacted me in a way to know that (technical difficulties) used to love and it's from, I first heard it from A Cinderella Story with like Hilary Duff. But I think someone had told me that somebody else has said it somewhere but anyways, I think it was like Babe Ruth or something. I don't know, but it's a baseball like analogy and it's, “Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game.” And for that, I could say that is applicable for the Center because, as I mentioned before, on that little piece of paper like there were so many doubts and fears that came with for that to even potentially be a thing. To not let in those doubts and fears, keep me from being a voice for students, being able to build and nurture those relationships on campus and not taking no for an answer. And I think that has helped to, the Black Center, the Black Student Center has helped to reinforce, to reinforce the power in my potential and even the folks around me and like leave your mark on campus. 01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:38.000 So, you've seen it grow and evolve. So, what do you want next, to see next for the Black Student Center? 01:22:38.000 --> 01:25:30.000 I would like to see the Black Student Center expand in space. I would like to see more funding put towards the Black Student Center to support additional roles within the space. So, for there to be like a Director and Associate Director, a coordinator, graduate assistants, student assistants, a team of volunteers. I would like to see for more funding to be put towards the Center to expand the staffing, as I just mentioned. I would like to see the Black Student Center really pushed to go against the grain, to tap into different areas that are not necessarily looked at on an everyday basis to continue strengthening the relationships that the university has with the community colleges but specifically with the Black organizations on those campuses to increase, you know, the Black student population to push them in a role in recruitment of Black faculty and staff, to be able to work in partnership with the Black Faculty and Staff Association as well as like other entities on campus like Omega Psi Phi, Incorporated, and Sigma Gamma Rho, Incorporated, to do like a Black student orientation or even a high school conference or with the Black Student Center, honestly, there are so many avenues that it could go down that will ultimately lead to student success, specifically with our Black students. And so, I'm just excited to see direct--the direction that they take especially after students return to campus. And just seeing the continuation of the events and programs that they already have as well as being able to tap into other workshops and things that they haven't necessarily explored yet, too. 01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:36.000 Well, those are all my questions for today. If you have, do you have anything else to add or anything you would like to say? 01:25:36.000 --> 01:27:03.000 I would say, well, let's see, is there anything else I would say? I think the last thing that I would say is that I truly and dearly hope that the essence of the Black Student Center continues to fulfill its purpose at Cal State San Marcos. And I hope that it will endure forever and when I go back and visit the campus like ten, twenty years from now that it is not in the same area with the same dimensions that it before I was, I mean, after I was a student, or during the time I was a student, but that it has expanded and its initiatives have expanded and it is still present, it's still a presence and dynamic as ever on the campus. So that is, that is one thing that I hope for, for the Black Student Center is that it stays and remains like on campus fulfilling its purpose. 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:09.000 Well, I'm glad. Thank you so much for allowing me to interview today. It was a wonderful interview. Thank you so much. 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:16.000 You're welcome. Thank you. Gosh, you got my wheels turning today. (laughs) 01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:18.500 I'm glad. Thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. 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Johnson, Jamaéla. Interview April 30th, 2021.
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Jamaéla Johnson is an alumna of California State University San Marcos. While at CSUSM, she worked in various capacities on campus with the Gender Equity Center, the Black Student Union, and Associated Students Incorporated (ASI). Much of her work involved talking and working with fellow students regarding their shared needs around campus. In her interview, Johnson discusses her roles in advocating for the Black Student Center, as well as the journey towards the Center's opening.
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Jamaéla Johnson
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Ayana Ford
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Black experience in America
California State University San Marcos, Associated Students Incorporated
California State University San Marcos, Black Student Center
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/7544e0fd4dd9179f144e1eb4d985afb4.pdf
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Johnson, Jamaéla. Interview transcript, April 30, 2021.
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Jamaéla Johnson is an alumna of California State University San Marcos. While at CSUSM, she worked in various capacities on campus with the Gender Equity Center, the Black Student Union, and Associated Students Incorporated (ASI). Much of her work involved talking and working with fellow students regarding their shared needs around campus. In her interview, Johnson discusses her roles in advocating for the Black Student Center, as well as the journey towards the Center's opening.
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Jamaéla Johnson
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Ayana Ford
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2021-04-30
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Black experience in America
California State University San Marcos, Associated Students Incorporated
California State University San Marcos, Black Student Center
California State University San Marcos--Students
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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Black Student Center Oral History Project
Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
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Oral Histories
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Oral History
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Sean Visintainer
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Rebecca Jones
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5.4 Jones, Rebecca. Interview April 12, 2023. SC027-034 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Local government -- California -- San Marcos San Diego Association of Governments Jones, Rebecca San Marcos (Calif.) COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy Women in politics San Diego County (Calif.) Rebecca Jones Sean Visintainer JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12.mp4 1:|18(6)|33(5)|53(4)|69(9)|86(11)|109(10)|129(11)|145(10)|172(2)|201(5)|215(6)|230(13)|251(5)|271(16)|298(10)|317(14)|333(8)|353(7)|370(8)|387(6)|401(3)|416(15)|435(6)|453(11)|492(4)|513(8)|530(9)|549(11)|566(3)|585(8)|605(14)|622(8)|643(5)|677(10)|702(7)|719(4)|732(12)|745(3)|761(8)|777(5)|790(7)|812(9)|826(11)|848(13)|864(14)|878(16)|890(10)|904(2)|919(13)|942(5)|963(4)|975(7)|988(9)|1016(5)|1032(7)|1055(7)|1067(3)|1082(2)|1103(12)|1116(12)|1129(11)|1149(14)|1162(14)|1190(9)|1203(9)|1215(7)|1228(2)|1244(11)|1264(6)|1282(15)|1299(13)|1317(12)|1333(2)|1351(7)|1369(17)|1385(7)|1399(16)|1414(16)|1427(7)|1451(13)|1477(6)|1497(18)|1513(10)|1532(2)|1546(5)|1562(2)|1584(8)|1605(10)|1617(2)|1635(11)|1656(8)|1673(10)|1685(6)|1701(2)|1716(9)|1738(5)|1751(15)|1765(5)|1781(17)|1805(13)|1818(10)|1831(3)|1843(15)|1855(14)|1870(13)|1896(11)|1913(9)|1931(11)|1962(3)|2000(4) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/1997e3f42e3e9c4d984c36d5eded7c44.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Oral history interview of San Marcos, California Mayor Rebecca Jones, by Sean Visintainer, Head of Special Collections, California State University San Marcos. Interview April 12, 2023 at the University Library. 0 50 San Marcos local governance Jones describes where the city's budget comes from, including property tax, sales tax, and via the ownership of property (thanks to status as a charter city). Jones also describes her priorities for her work and for San Marcos city government. local governance ; San Marcos city budget ; charter city 0 236 Structure of San Marcos government Jones outlines the structure of San Marcos city government, and how a City Council Manager government differs from a Strong Mayor model. Jones also speaks to building consensus, and what being a contract city entails, especially in regards to police, and fire departments. 0 569 Identifying needs Jones entails what feedback means to the act of local governance, how she solicits it, saying no, and thinking big picture about priorities and issues. Jones also touches on pandemic operations of parks and trails, supporting small businesses, and customer service. local governance ; COVID 19 pandemic ; small business ; San Marcos Parks and Trails 0 927 Local governance and San Diego County Jones speaks to the differences between county and local government, and how the City of San Marcos works within the county structure. Jones specifically addresses: mental health, SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments), North County Transit, Vallecitos Water District. Jones elaborates on transit - public transportation, car transit, and microtransit. Jones also elaborates on Innovate 78 and how the organization functions, and is tied to job retention along the 78 corridor (Carlsbad, Oceanside, Vista, San Marcos, and Escondido). SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments) ; North County Transit ; Vallecitos Water District ; public transportation ; car transit ; microtransit ; Innovate 78 0 1499 Starting in politics Jones recounts how she became involved in politics, through interest in a parks issue and sitting down with city council and receiving encouragement from sitting members of the council. Jones recalls serving on the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, and learning about the process of local governance through that task force. Jones also speaks to being involved in the private sector in real estate and as a business owner. Jones also recounts her feelings towards a couple of development projects and how that spurred her to get involved in politics. local politics ; San Marcos Creek District Task Force 0 1820 Appointment to San Marcos City Council Jones recounts how the process of being appointed to the city council and the council makeup when she was first appointed. Jones outlines the difference between an appointment and an election.
 ; Jim Desmond ; Pia Harris-Ebert ; Betty Evans ; San Marcos City Council 0 2077 Running for election and re-election Jones recounts some experiences from her previous elections interacting with constituents and with a difficult election. Jones speaks to the emotional toll an election can have on a candidate, and how she participates in self-care. elections ; self-care 0 2629 Cycling for transit and recreation Jones speaks to her experience on SANDAG and offers her perspective on bike lanes and cycling to facilitate transit and recreation. Jones also speaks to different styles of bike lanes, motorist and cyclist education, and eBikes, especially in regards to schoolchildren.
 ; bike lanes ; cycle tracks ; sharrows ; splits ; eBikes 0 3051 San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force and North City Jones discuss the goal of the task force, management of the Creek, and development of the Creek District. Jones also discusses development in North City (San Marcos, originally conceived of as a university district).
 ; San Marcos Creek District ; San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force ; Gary London ; public/private partnerships ; North City ; Belgian Waffle Ride 0 3490 More development in San Marcos Jones elaborates on additional development in the works in San Marcos, including medical offices and a hospital, and the Discovery Road extension, traffic, and flooding. 
 ; Scripps Hospital ; Kaiser Hospital ; Kaiser Permanente ; Discovery Road ; traffic congestion ; healthcare 0 3844 Running for San Marcos Mayor Jones recalls the decision process of deciding to run for mayor, and speaks to being San Marcos's first woman mayor, as well as her mentors.
 ; Pia Harris-Ebert ; Hal Martin 0 4056 Business closures during the pandemic Jones discusses the difficulties small businesses in San Marcos encountered during the pandemic and supporting small businesses in San Marcos.
 ; COVID-19 pandemic ; small business 0 4244 The COVID-19 Pandemic Jones discusses what she and the city did during the pandemic to lessen the burden on San Marcos citizens. Jones discusses the city's rainy day fund, sending out small business loans (which were turned into grants), moving businesses outside, facilitating permits and bureaucracy for businesses in the process of opening, and advocacy to the governor. Jones also discusses keeping outside recreation open, nonprofit assistance, supporting schoolchildren, and mental health. Jones also enumerates how part of her job entails being emotionally available and supportive for constituents, and helping communities move forward from trauma. 
 ; COVID-19 pandemic ; business and regulation ; outdoor recreation ; American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) ; mental health ; trauma 0 4914 Other qualities of Jones's work Jones discusses additional qualities of her day-to-day work, including being a civic booster, reading and preparation, and empathy.
 ; Jeff Zevely ; Channel 8 ; Prohoroff Chicken Ranch ; Hollandia Dairy 0 5228 Women in politics Jones discusses her experiences as a woman in politics, including bias and harassment. Jones also discusses her podcast, SheEO, about elevating women, and Jones's advice to women entering politics. 
 ; women politicians ; SheEO podcast 0 5734 San Marcos youth Jones discusses her work at the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos and engagement with San Marcos youth.
 ; Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos ; Highway 78 flooding ; San Marcos Market ; American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) 0 6352 Next steps and interview close Jones discusses her personal political style, the next steps in her career, and the love she has for the city of San Marcos. San Marcos ; San Diego County Supervisor 0 Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
 ; 
 ; In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos. Sean Visintainer: Okay. This is Sean Visintainer and I’m here today with Mayor Rebecca Jones of San Marcos, California, doing an oral history interview for the Oral History Special Collections Project at Cal State San Marcos. Today is April 12th. We’re doing the interview in the University library. Mayor Jones, thank you so much for joining us today. Mayor Rebecca Jones: Oh, it’s my pleasure. SV: I wanted to start off just by asking you some questions about local government. And I think that it’s something that maybe is a little, at times, opaque to people. And so, I was just curious because local government can look really different depending upon the municipality. For people that are going to watch this video, researchers in the future, could you describe a little bit about how local government in San Marcos happens? RJ: Well, it used to be the great mystery. So, when I actually got involved with the city, I had no idea how local government worked. So, I tried to remember and put myself from that perspective as being just a resident and making things easier. And so, what we do, essentially, is we spend taxpayer money— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —that is from different sources. Most of it is from sales tax. That’s actually where we have our largest amount of money to spend for the residents. But then we also have property tax. And most people don’t know this but out of all of the counties in the city, I believe we are the lowest city that has the smallest share of property tax. So, out of every dollar we get 7.2¢. So, if you look at just that in itself, it really is very important for us to figure out other ways to actually generate revenue. So, we are a charter city. And a charter city allows us to actually have property that we own which is owned by the residents of the city of San Marcos. And all of that revenue that we actually have coming in—so Creekside Marketplace would be an example of that as well as City Hall—but all of that money actually helps augment the very low sales tax that we have. SV: Okay. So, I assume then you have to be very fiscally responsible. RJ: Very fiscally responsible. And so, anyway, our job as a local government is to spend your money wisely ; keep you safe which is, honestly, our number one concern in my opinion—it always has been—and then also making sure we have a good quality of life for people. And so, you know, during my time on the council, I always again, you know, try to remember as a resident what is important to our residents. And I actually—this is kind of crazy but when I am campaigning which, you know, I’ve won five elections now— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —when I’m out campaigning, I actually enjoy the part of knocking on a stranger’s door and knowing that I’m going to get some feedback that I might not ever get otherwise. And so, I think it’s really important for me to always remember that part of local government, who you’re serving, which is the residents of the city, but also keeping everyone safe whether you own a business, whether you live here, or whether you’re visiting here. We want to make sure that we have that as our highest priority and, you know, people can drive safely through our community, come and shop here. If they’re already passing through San Marcos, which a lot of people do, we want them to, you know, spend a little more money and enjoy themselves. So, just keeping all of that in perspective is always at the front of what I’m always thinking and part of what my leadership is and, you know, just having again a good quality of life where people love to visit, live here, and, you know, a good place to call home. SV: Mm-hmm. Can you speak a little bit to how the process of government works, the City Council, the other people that are involved, the Deputy Mayor, yourself? RJ: Yeah. So, essentially, there is a City Council Manager style government. So, you might hear about like a strong Mayor. It’s not that. There’s only one city in the entire county that has that and that’s the city of San Diego. But a Council Manager form of government, local government, means that there are five council people. We pretty much have the same authority. However, I can put anything on the agenda which I have done in the past. But also, you know, I work very closely with the City Manager. I don’t really have any extra authority. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: There’s a few little things but nothing major. And so, there are five of us that really have to look out for the best of what’s going on in the community. And we actually started districts back in 2018 and that actually changed things a bit, because that was the first time where we had councilmembers that were working specifically and being elected specifically in one area of the city. So, we have four districts and I’m at-large, so I’m elected by the entire city. And so, each one of us, you know, we have things that are important to us. We bring them forward. And then we try to get a consensus on them. My job is to make sure we’re all getting along— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —making sure that everyone’s voice is heard, and then also making sure that, you know, we always are remembering, even if you’re not representing technically District 1, for instance, that really District 2, 3, and 4 also matter. And, you know, we only have a certain amount of money, and we really need to make sure that we’re, you know, spending money where the greatest need is but also not just focusing on one part of the city. SV: Yeah. You spoke about consensus building, and I think that’s really interesting since it seems like a lot of decision making has to be shared decision making in San Marcos. How do you go about building consensus? RJ: Well, the biggest, most important thing, in my opinion, is not being political. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, once you bring political parties into it, you really just spoil everything, to be honest. And so, my job has always been as I’ve seen it is to be apolitical, for the most part. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And then also making sure that we are, you know, again spending money wisely and, you know, really addressing all of the needs and the wishes in the community. And making sure that everyone feels that they’re part of the city is also good, you know. It’s doing well. It’s safe. It’s very important for everyone, like I said, to be safe. I think that has always been super important but even more now than ever because there are a lot of people that don’t feel safe. You know, our world has changed. Laws are not the same that they used to be. And so, it’s really important to make sure that, again, your funding, your fire department, and then also your sheriff deputies—we are a contract city, which let me speak to that for just one moment. SV: Sure. RJ: I’ve had a lot of people during, you know, the downturn in the economy and, you know, during a lot of political things that have happened, saying to me, “Should we have our own police force?” Well, we actually still are one of the cities that has the lowest crime rate in the entire county. And so, that’s an important thing. Are we—what is the need? What is the problem? And so, you know, starting our own department would be very expensive, probably $3-4 million dollars. And, if it’s not broken, why fix it? SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, we actually are very lucky that we have some great captains that have come in. We have them for about two or three years, max. But they always end up being the cream of the crop. They end up moving on and actually being maybe an under-Sheriff or, you know, an assistant Sheriff. And so, you know, we really have had some great, you know, leaders in our Sheriff department. But a lot of people like to come back to our city. They might come here as a young Deputy, move on, and then they like to come back because it is a good place. We do have an excellent relationship with them, with the City Council and the Sheriff Department. And so, I think that really is very telling that, again, back to “if it’s not broken, why try to fix it when you’re doing very well.” And that’s, you know, one of the things that I think you do need to always keep in mind is, when things are going well, pay attention to what actually is working. You don’t have to change everything just for the sake of changing it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But you also don’t need to have things that you look at and say, “Well, we’ve been doing it that way twenty years, the same way, and it doesn’t work.” That’s when you need to pay attention. So, anyway, I’m very happy with our sheriff deputies and then also our fire department too, because they really do bring a sense of wellbeing to our community. SV: Yeah. We had to call the fire department— RJ: Oh no! SV: —not too long ago. They responded very promptly. They— RJ: Good. SV: —were wonderful. RJ: Okay! Well, that’s good to know. SV: So, we were very happy with how they did. RJ: Yeah. Good. SV: So, you talked about identifying change and maybe not needing change for the purpose of making change. RJ: Right. Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell. SV: I’m a little bit—I was curious how you identify need. So, it’s important to see what doesn’t need to be changed. But how do you go about recognizing where there is a need? RJ: Well, a lot of it has to do with feedback, to be honest. I mean, really, if you see something that maybe isn’t going as well as you had hoped, I mean a lot of it has to do with how people are feeling in the community. Do they feel like their voices are being heard? And their voice is being heard doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting everything that they want. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Sometimes, you have to say no. And, you know, that’s the big picture. We have nearly 100,000 people and we have—you know, that live here full-time, and we’ve got about 40,000 students that are coming in, that go to CSU, to Palomar College and all of our other higher learning institutions. It’s a lot of people. That’s really about 140,000 people that are, you know, coming into our city every day, whether they live here full-time or not. You know, you have to figure out how you serve them. So, again, you know, are you providing opportunities for them to actually enjoy themselves, have recreation. You know, we are actually known for our parks, which I think is really important at keeping people out and active. And, you know, during the pandemic for instance, many of the cities were closing their trails and their parks. We followed the health orders, but we kept our trails open, and we kept our parks, for the most part, open. We did close our climbing structures and that sort of thing. But we always felt that it was very important to keep people out and active and having those opportunities because mental well-being is important in a community. But then, also having opportunities for people to open businesses. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about for years—and this year it is our first time ; we’re actually calling it one of our goals— and that’s concierge service, that is the customer experience because the customers are the community. And then, also, the business owners, when they come into City Hall, do they feel welcomed? Do they feel like it’s easy for them? They get the support that they need to open a business. Or, if they’re making changes to their property or something like that, are we doing everything we can? And, again, do they have that concierge experience? And so, we’re doing a lot of different things. We actually are just launching something in the next couple of weeks that will help people understand more about conditional use permits and opening businesses and finding out where their dream can come true of opening a business in the city and where it’s actually available to already open pretty easily, or where it might take a little more work on their end. And so, you know, we just are trying to always make that experience a little bit better. And, you know, I’m really proud of all the work that we’ve done since I’ve been on the council. This is my 17th year on the city council. And so, it’s been a long time. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I remember when I first joined the council, I was the only woman at the time. And I remember saying “Well, you know it would be great if we had good customer service.” And at the time, that did not go over very well (Sean chuckles). There was this “Well, what is that all about?” And, you know, now if you look forward, you know, to where we are today and how important that is to us, we’ve changed a lot. And so, you know, again, changing things that you identify as having issues and it’s not just what I think. A lot of it really does have to do with getting feedback from our community. SV: Mm-hmm. How do you solicit feedback? RJ: Well, I try to make as many—myself—as available as possible. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier about, you know, being available. This is a full-time job. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It could happen in a grocery store. It could be happening at the park. Wherever I am, I know that it is important for me to be available. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, Chamber of Commerce events. Really anywhere is a way. I have a very open-door policy, emails, social media, even though I don’t love social media. It does offer a way for people to connect with me. And so, I think, again, that is really important. You know, and then my cell phone. I have it on my cards. I give it to everyone. I have a lot of people that just reach out to me and say, “You know what? I met you at this event. You gave me your card because I asked for it. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing this with you. But here’s what I’m thinking.” And I think that is, in itself, being a mayor of the people. Being available is so important. And, again, you know back to the point that I made a little earlier as well, and that is being as apolitical as possible. I really do believe that that’s the best way that you can serve your community. Not making anyone feel left out and bringing everyone together and being that consensus builder is really important. So, I work very wholeheartedly and very diligently at doing that. SV: Yeah. So, you’re pretty much always on duty. RJ: I am. SV: Yeah. RJ: I am which, you know, makes it difficult. It is a hard job— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —to do, you know, pretty much all day every day. But, you know, I have to say I look around the city and I do have to pinch myself sometimes, thinking “You know, I was a part of that.” And “Oh, I was a part of that.” I mean, I really am proud of what our community has become. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, and we really have grown significantly. We are a college town. And then, you know, we’ve really done a good job, I think, at juggling following state mandates, making sure, again you know, our community is a good place to call home, also to do business in. You know, it really encompasses a lot of different things. But I’ve been very intentional about, you know, making the things that are important to our residents important to me as well. SV: Mm-hmm. Could you talk a little bit about how the city government functions within the larger context of, I guess, the county? RJ: Oh yeah. SV: You know, how the different municipalities interact and then how the county government as well, functions with the city. RJ: So, all mental health is handled through the county. That’s probably the biggest difference of the county and then cities. So, there are 18 cities plus the county. And then what we have is several different, you know, regional groups that we are, you know, part of. So, one being SANDAG which is mainly transportation. And then you’ve got also North County Transit which is for North County. And it’s our transit operator. And so, and then there’s like the water—we don’t actually have our own water department. So, Vallecitos Water District handles that. We are a little different than some cities. Like the city of Carlsbad, they also serve the water as well. But we don’t do that. You know, just really the biggest thing is when we’re on a board together, you have to wear a regional hat. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You have to figure out—because we don’t work independently as silos. We do work together. You know, when you look at transportation in itself, you know a lot of people drive cars, about 97% of the county, about only 2-3% honestly actually use transit. It’s not a system that actually runs often enough for it to be, you know, serving most people for their lives. Plus, a lot of people have lifestyles that really it doesn’t fit within their lifestyles. But then there are a lot of people—well, not a lot, but the people that do use public transit, they really do rely on it. So, we need to figure out how to serve everyone. And so, you know, is there a possibility of having a transit system that actually can attract more riders? I believe so. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But it also relies on people making that shift. We need to make sure it’s safe. There is a lot of people that believe that only people that are homeless ride on public transit. That’s not the case. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Though there are some. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t. There definitely are. But how do we make it more meaningful and easier for people to use it? So, we do need a balanced transportation system like I said. And that’s not punishing car drivers and trying to force them out of their cars. It’s not going to happen. Many people, especially people I think with kids, really rely on that, you know, getting their kids where they need to go. And I, you know, my kids—I have, well, I’ll just give you an example. I had a soccer player and she played competitive soccer, my daughter. And then my son was a surfer. And so, two very, very different, you know, life sorts of things that they like to do. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, for me, I was always driving. I was always driving, you know, a big SUV because usually I was like “Hey, you know what? I’ll pick up your kids too.” So, you know, for practices and all of that for my daughter, I did a lot of carpooling. With my son, not so much because he wanted to go, you know, when he wanted to go. So, you know, I’d go and try to run errands while he was at the beach. And then I’d go back and pick him up. So, you know, a lot of different lifestyles have different needs. And, you know, so that’s one of the things that I always try to mention when I’m on that SANDAG committee. I’m on the Board of Directors as Mayor. And I try to say, “Remember. Let’s not forget about, you know, the parents. Let’s not forget about our retirees. We really do need a transportation program that fits everyone’s needs.” And it is tricky. But I think it can be done. But our new regional plan, I think that it really does punish car drivers in a lot of ways. And we really need to bring more transit, in my opinion, up to North County. And what I’ve been talking about for quite some time, and it actually will be rolling out pretty soon, is having micro-transit within cities because that is a way for you to actually get where you need to go within the city. It’s not going to take you to work or anything like that. But, you know, on your short trips, you know, getting for instance our kids to school because the school district has very little busing. They are starting to bring some of it back. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But that really is only for the elementary kids. So, you know, the older kids, the middle-schoolers, the high schoolers, how do you get them to school in a meaningful way? And I think micro-transit is a way to do that. But it’s also a way for people like if you want to go out and have dinner, have that glass of wine. You don’t have to drink and drive! You don’t have to call an Uber. If you’ve got a system that actually is on demand, it will meet those needs. And I think it would serve our community better. So, I think having more conversations about, you know, different aspects of a transportation plan that fits really the needs of the community like micro-transit and then also autonomous vehicles. They are the future more than I think fixed rail or fixed routes on buses. I think it really does lend better to peoples’ lifestyles. So, you know, keeping that in mind, that’s what we do at SANDAG. But then also at North County Transit. It’s all about the same things that I just mentioned about transit. But, you know, working with other cities it happens a lot. We also have something on the 78 corridor that is something that not the rest of the nation has. I think it’s one of a kind. And it is that cities work together. And so, Innovate 78 started. And it was really about attracting business to the region. I call us the “upside” of San Diego because we’re North County. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: We’re very close to Riverside and to Orange County. And, you know, we really have a different bit of lifestyle. A lot of people that really enjoy the urban living don’t really enjoy it as much in North County. But we also, you know, we have a lot of space for jobs and, you know, we also have a lot of homes. And so, a lot of people, you know, North County is a little more affordable. As you get east of the 5, it, you know, gets a little more affordable. East of the 15 is a little more affordable. But, you know, also trying to figure out how to balance, again, the transportation, getting people to work, and all of that is a consideration. But, you know, when you have large cities like Carlsbad where they have a lot of jobs, where are those people going to live? Well, a lot of them do live in San Marcos, for instance, or Vista. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, you know, Innovate 78 was all about trying to figure out how to attract businesses. If the city of Vista has a business or the city of San Marcos has a business within our city, we can’t find the proper amount of land for them because they want to grow. We work together and our Economic Development Directors work together to figure out where can we move them to stay in North County, so they don’t have to disrupt their workforce, so they don’t have to disrupt their lifestyles. How can we work together to make that happen? And it has been very successful. I’m very proud of the work that we’ve done. And, you know, it has been recognized that we have done some really good work together. SV: Yeah. So, is Innovate 78 like a—is it a formalized structure? Do you have meetings that happen on a regular basis? Or is it more of a—I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to ask you here. RJ: I know what you’re trying to—So, we don’t have—Okay. So, there are quarterly meetings where it’s the mayors, generally, but not always, and council members. So, they kind of cycle in. And then they’re hosted in all the different cities. That’s a quarterly thing. But our Economic Development Directors and staff work actually—they do have monthly meetings. So, they do work together on a very, very regular basis. And, you know, that, again—You know, we’re policy makers. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, it’s not imperative that we are there all the time, you know, at a monthly meeting or something like that. It is when it comes to transportation like SANDAG but not with Innovate 78. And again, you know, there’s a lot of work that has gotten done where, you know, businesses rather than them, you know, locate elsewhere like another county or something like that or, you know, maybe in South County, we’ve been able to keep and retain them here in North County which is a good thing. SV: Yeah. That is a good thing. RJ: Yeah. SV: You talked about micro-transit. I just wanted to clarify what that is in case it becomes available. RJ: Oh, micro-transit is like a small shuttle sort of bus. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Not a big full-sized bus but more of a smaller bus. And it would be—and what North County transit is going to be—Have you ever seen the Carlsbad Connector? SV: I haven’t. RJ: Okay. Well, it’s kind of a, it’s a smaller bus and it would be on demand. That will be rolling out in San Marcos. SV: Okay. RJ: Through North County Transit. SV: Okay. When will that roll out? RJ: Actually, sometime probably fall or early next year. SV: Very cool! RJ: Yeah. SV: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey into politics. RJ: Oh my gosh! Yes. Everyone says, “What made you— SV: Yeah! RJ: “—want to be in politics?” Well, I could tell you this much. I never did. (laughs) It’s one of those things that I just kind of fell into. And so, what ended up happening is I was a young mom, and really, I didn’t even know how local government worked. I didn’t know what city government handled. I didn’t know anything about anything. And there was a public notice in the park next to my home. And, you know, I had a baby at home and a four-year-old. And I was like “What’s going on? What is happening?” you know. And some of my neighbors were saying “Oh, we don’t want this in our park.” And I said, “Well, what’s even going on?” And then, as I started delving into it and I got more information and I actually figured out what was going on, I went “Yeah. I don’t like that for the park either. I’m not in love with that.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, it really was being involved. I sat down with all of the council members at the time and I had two council members, a Republican and a Democrat, say to me, “Rebecca, you should get involved in politics.” And I said, “I have you. Why would I do that?” And they said, “Well, we’re definitely not going to be doing it forever.” I think both of them were probably right around 20-25 or 24 years, you know, being involved in the city. And I was like “Why? Why won’t you do this forever?” And they said, “Well, you know, it’s a big job. However, when you really want to help shape the community, it’s a good thing.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, I had both of them, you know, talk me into it. First they kind of “voluntold” me. And I actually first joined the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, originally. And I thought that was really interesting because I learned a lot about land use, a lot about, you know, just creating spaces where people could come and, you know, congregate, and really making a community a place where people can, you know, meet up with their friends and, you know, have those restaurants and those spaces that are, you know, beautiful and, you know, signature to the community, very unique. And I really liked that. And so, I was like “Okay. Well, I do like this.” And I have to tell you, my background is that I was a new home sales agent when I was in my early twenties. SV Mm-hmm. RJ: And then, my ex and I started a furniture marketing company which became very successful. We had customers. We started out with zero sales. We actually built that into a $100 million dollars a year in sales with Walmart, Costco, BestBuy as some of our customers. So, it was a pretty lucrative business. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But, you know, it was really hard. And I remember when he came home one day from work, he said, “You know, we’re going to start our own business.” And I went “We??” And, you know, at that time we only had one child and he was one. And he said, “Yes. You’re going to do all of the business part of it. And I’m just going to do the sales.” And I went “Oh. Okay.” And I go “You know, I don’t know how to work a computer.” And he said, “Nah, that’s okay. You’re smart. You could figure it out.” And that’s, you know, that’s really how it started. And so, I’ve always been kind of a, you know, very I would say involved person. If someone, you know, gives me a challenge or a task, I will go all in, and I’ll make sure I’ll do a good job. I’m very conscientious. And so, that really is how it started. Started out, you know, had that background of business in my, you know, my marriage and owning it. And then, I just went “Well, you know what? It’s time for me to give back. It’s time for me to be part of the solution rather than, you know, trying to stop things that are happening, you know as far as development goes.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, there were a couple of other things. The second Walmart, I didn’t agree with that. I didn’t think the placement was correct. And then there was the Robertson’s Ready-Mix batch plant over on Barham. And I said “Yeah. This is negative. I’d rather be positive.” I don’t like negativity, as you could probably tell. I’m a very positive person. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And you know what? I just knew that it was probably the right thing to do. And so, I ended up actually applying for an appointment because my ex had gotten sick in 2006. So, I wasn’t able to run a campaign that year. And I applied for the appointment in 2007. I was selected. And then I have run five campaigns since then and been elected five times. So, I must be doing something right. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Always been the top vote getter, even if it was for two seats and, you know, I would say that no one outworks me. No one immerses themselves more into trying to be involved and prepared. And so, I think that sets me apart because I really am not a politician. I’m just a person that loves the community and wants to give back and has found a way that I can do that. SV: And you said that you applied for the appointment for city council, if I’m understanding correctly. RJ: Correct. SV: So, what is that process like? RJ: Boy, was that fun. I’m just kidding. (both laugh) So, you filled out an application and then you talked about your experience and what you wanted to bring to the table. And at that time, it was an interesting time. So, Jim Desmond had just been elected as mayor. And, you know, it was—there were four men on the council. Pia Harris-Sebert was our first woman ever elected to the city council. And she was the first woman, but she was really the only woman for quite a while. We did have Betty Evans that, I think, served one or two terms in between. But she wasn’t on there. And so, it was really—there were four men left on the city council. And, you know, Jim Desmond was talking about diversity back then. And, you know, he said, you know, I like what Rebecca brings to the table, the business background, which is really important. And I think everyone should have at least some sort of background as far as how you spend money. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, it’s—you don’t have a ton of money to spend and, you know, really being able to figure out how to best spend that. You know, when you’re a business owner and especially when you’re starting out a business, you are pretty much trying to figure out how you’re not going to starve. And so, that really does bring an interesting perspective, I think, to the table. Anyway, and so, I was selected. There were 27 applicants. I got up to the podium and one of the council members actually had a lot of disagreements with me. He was supportive of the second Walmart. And, you know, he brought that up. He said “Well, you know, Walmart, they’re one of your customers. They must be very forgiving because you didn’t agree with the second Walmart.” And I said, “Well, you know, it doesn’t mean that I’m against Walmart. It just meant that I didn’t think the location was okay.” And those two things—you can still feel both things and believe in both things. It doesn’t mean that you don’t like Walmart. I mean, there are a lot of people in my community that love Walmart. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, whether I’m a Walmart shopper or not, a lot of people want to shop there. And so, you know, I think it’s really important that you have a good mix of businesses. And, you know, I think I brought that to the table. But I also, you know, brought forward the part of—I really cared about, you know, being able to represent everyone. And I think I’ve been—It has been a very valuable voice at that table. SV: Mm-hmm. So, there’s not an election process for city council? Or there wasn’t at that time? RJ: Not for an appointment. No, not for an appointment. SV: Oh, because Desmond— RJ: Because I’m in an appointment. SV: Okay. Gotcha. RJ: Yeah. So, right now, there is a supervisor seat that is going to be vacated. So, there would be an opportunity for either an appointment or a special election. At that time, a special election was gauged to be around $300,000. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It’s very expensive. If you can come up with an agreement on an appointment, it makes sense, if you can come to an agreement. But it doesn’t always happen. SV: Yeah. So— RJ: And, you know, a lot of people have been appointed and have not been able to get elected. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I think there were people that actually spoke against my appointment that when they saw what I did in my first two years, before I had my first election, they went “Wow. Okay.” And they’ve been some of my biggest supporters, to be honest. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, that does actually feel good because people do recognize how hard I work. It does feel good to have that recognized. SV: Yeah. So, then you ran for reelection then around 2009 or so? RJ: 2008— SV: 2008. RJ: —then ’12, and then ’16. I was elected as a woman’s—or as a first woman mayor in our city— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —to ever serve as mayor in 2018. And then, I was reelected last year, in 2022. SV: So, what does an election look like from your perspective when you’ve decided—let’s take your first time that you’re going after your appointment when you’re going to be reelected or elected to the city council? RJ: Oh, boy. It’s a lot of fun. So, first of all, you know, you need to raise money. So, do people believe in you? Because they’re not going to definitely, you know, donate to your campaign if they don’t believe in you. So, the good thing is I did have a record and I was able to point back to that. But not only was I able to point back to that, I was able to point back to the success in my business, how hard I’d worked, and all of those things. And, you know, it’s really important, I think, that you do connect to the community because at the end of the day you can raise all the money in the world but if you don’t have the votes, it’s really irrelevant. And so, can you get—And, you know, every single time—and I’ve run five elections—I’ve thought, “Oh my gosh. I’m losing. I’m losing!” (throws her head back and laughs) I’ve had, you know, like—I remember my first campaign. Oh my gosh. I showed up to this one woman’s house. This is really deflating. And she says to me “Oh, I already voted. And I didn’t vote for you.” (Sean chuckles) And I went “Oh. Okay.” (chuckles) And then I walked away, and I thought “Shoot! You know, why didn’t she even give me a chance to tell her about myself.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, so it’s a very humbling experience. And, honestly, I would say equally humbling is actually serving because really, you know, to have people believe in you and when they say to you, “You know what? I love what you’re doing in our community” it really does feel amazing because, again, you know back to your hard work but also, I do love the community. And I do want it to be the best that it possibly can be. And so having that part acknowledged is really important to me too. But, again, very humbling. And, you know, so every single campaign I’m like “Okay. Well, if I just go by what people are saying at the doors, I’m winning! Like I’m winning!” And then I’m like “That could not be how it is. They could just be saying that to me.” And so, you know, it really is a hard thing. And not everyone can put themselves out there. It’s nerve wracking. On that election night, you’re going “Okay. Waiting for the first numbers to come up. What’s it going to be?” And, you know, I have to say my fifth election, you know this last one, it was very ugly. It was very unfair because I was, you know—it was a smear campaign, honestly, on my integrity and what I had done for all these years and trying to paint me into a box. I don’t fit into a box. I’m going to be totally honest about that. I don’t fit into a box. I’m not a politician, don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a civic leader and someone that will read everything and make good decisions for the best of everyone. And, you know, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That part is kind of hard in elected office. But if you’re making most people happy and you’ve got a safe community, a thriving community, at the end of the day that’s all you can really hope for and, you know, again making most people happy but there are going to be some people that don’t like you. I’ve had people actually comment about what I look like which is very insulting. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: What I look like has nothing to do with the kind of job that I do. And, you know, trying to call me little nicknames and that sort of thing, I’m not a robot. I am a person so it does hurt a bit. But, you know, at the end of the day I do remember, you know, some people aren’t going to like me. That’s okay. I just know, at the end of the day really, if I go to bed and I know that I’ve done a good job that day, I wake up the next day and it’s a new day and, you know, I can let things go which it does take that in this job. You do have to let a lot of things go. You know, the personal insults really don’t matter, I guess, at the end. But, you know, I’m not a robot so it does affect me a bit. And, you know, you do have to really remember just to stay true to yourself. And I really am very proud that I have done that. SV: Yeah. What is your process for self-care when you’re having a negative day or a stressful time? RJ: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I have to get to the gym. I mean, I’m just one of those people, if I don’t get enough exercise I will literally overthink things. And so, for me, I’m really getting to the gym. And my gym! Oh, gosh. So, during Covid, closed down in San Marcos. And I was like “Okay. I’m going to go to another one of them.” It was in Encinitas. But I really am very specific because it’s not a super long workout and I can do it whenever, you know, pretty much during, you know, business hours. But I like to be able to go and punch bags (laughs) and kick bags. It’s a kickbox workout. So, I’m not like punching someone. I don’t want to do that. But I do, you know—it’s a kickbox workout. So, now, I found another one. It’s in Rancho Bernardo. So, it’s not in the city which can be kind of beneficial because, you know, I’m not sweaty and looking like a mess. And then, you know, if I’m like I’m punching and I’m having an especially frustrating day, I can do that. The other thing I really love to do is hike. I admittedly have not hiked in a very long time. I actually, a few years ago, hiked in the Tetons. So, I had to do a lot of training for that. So, I was out on the trails two and three times a week which it’s actually better for me when I can find that time. The job is very, you know, —it does entail a lot of time for me. So, it is tough for me to actually do that during the day. And, you know, when we have rainy weather, that doesn’t help. Or weather that’s too hot, that doesn’t help. So, you know, really trying to find the time to at least do that. And then I love to cook. So, during the pandemic, I started cooking for a few elderly people. And so, I have some folks that I cook for. And when I need a mental health moment, I just go in my kitchen and I just cook up a storm and several meals and I mean soups and I just try lots of different, new recipes and find things that I can tweak and make my own. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But those are the things that I do. I do try to do that. I don’t get massages. I really need a massage many times though. I don’t really take the time to do that. So, really, the biggest thing is exercise and then getting that cooking in. You know, and then everyone benefits from it. SV: Yeah. RJ: Because I’m actually not a bad cook, so— (chuckles) SV: So, what’s your best dish? RJ: Oh, gosh. Well, that has evolved. I don’t know. I’ve become quite the soup maker. But I do have my tried and true. I’m really good at prime rib and au gratin potatoes. My kids are always like “Mom” —and, you know, they’re older. They’re twenty. Actually my daughter will be 23 in a few weeks, and my son just turned 27. You know, whenever they, you know, want a good meal, they’re like “Mom. Could you make this? Or can you make that?” and then I made chicken fingers for the first time ever. And they’re like “Mom. These are like the best I’ve ever had.” So, anyway, I’m like “Well, I could teach you how to do it.” And so, you know, I’ve had them over a couple of times and, you know, teaching people to cook, honestly is—You know, there are a lot of people that don’t cook in this world, and I think, you know, the less we eat processed food, the better it is for us. And so, I like to, you know—I cook almost solely organic. I try not to eat heavily processed food. I think it’s better for me. You know, I’m going to be 56 next year—Oh, oh my gosh. Not next year. This year! Oh, gosh! In a few weeks. Oh, gosh, about a month. So, yeah. I’ll be 56. You know, I think our bodies can actually be healthier and mentally better when we’re, you know, putting the right food in them and then also getting exercise too. So, I try to definitely do all that to take care of myself. I know that’s a long story but those are the things that I do. (chuckles) SV: Yeah. Well, thank you for answering. And I asked the food question because I used to be a chef. So, I’m always interested to know about people’s experiences. RJ: Oh, wow! Nice. Nice. SV: And then exercise, I agree. I mean, it’s so important. I think to bring it back to our interview, you know, something that I take advantage of is the bike lanes. RJ: Oh, yeah. SV: And I was curious as to what your—You know, you’ve talked about transit. You’ve talked about micro-transit and, you know, what your priorities are in terms of pedestrian and two-wheeled transit as well. RJ: Yeah. Thanks for asking that. So, actually, at SANDAG, this is kind of interesting, I had actually voted against spending $140, I think it was $140 million dollars on bike lanes. And I had one of our residents send me a message. And he said, “You’re the worst mayor ever!” And I was like “Oh. Wow.” And he said, “I can’t believe how you don’t like cyclists.” And I said, “Well, that’s not exactly how that went.” And so, I explained, you know, that there’s no reason that bike lanes should be costing $5 million dollars a mile. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: That’s way too expensive. There’s no way that should be happening on a road that is literally already there. So, I said, you know, I had an issue with that. I have a real problem spending money in a wasteful way. And, you know, so I said, “Hey, let’s meet.” I sat down with him. He’s now a fan and definitely not, you know, against me any longer because he didn’t really know all of the reasons that I felt the way that I felt. I think getting input from cyclists is really important. You know, again, back to the point that we have 72 miles of, you know, trails. Those are often times, you know, available for cyclists and, you know, pedestrians, hikers, even horses because we still have horses in San Marcos. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, I am really proud about that. The one thing that, you know, I’ve done a lot of research on the different types of bike lanes, and I’m not sold on the cycle tracks. A lot of times the very serious cyclists are saying to me, “Rebecca, they’re very dangerous because you are confined in a space.” They look safe. Maybe for kids they’re safe. But they’re very expensive, first of all. And they really are not super safe because if you hit that curb for whatever reason, you could be thrown off of your bicycle and end up in the middle of a lane. That’s not very safe. Or there is a lot of crashes if you’ve got like—you know, most cyclists are in packs. Hardly anyone goes by themselves. I have a lot of friends that are very serious cyclists that, since this whole thing came forward, I’ve actually just from my friend group—and I do have some serious cyclists now in it. And they don’t really like those tracks. So, in my opinion, any time that we can have a sharrow, which is the bike lane that is a full lane with cyclists in it and then a car only lane, I think that’s probably a really good idea. Any time we can have a split because you’re not limited on space or real estate and have, you know, a separate bike lane that’s by itself but without all of the little candlesticks and the curbs and all that, I think that’s a good idea. It’s not always possible because a lot of times you’re putting them in after the fact. I would like to see more education. I am concerned that some people get really upset with cyclists. And some cyclists—I have to tell you. I actually had a property down at the beach, a second property, with my ex and, you know, every time I would go to back out of the driveway cyclists would come and they would like not pay attention to me. And I would go “Well, they’re not the only one on the road.” And then I would see them running stoplights and stop signs. And that actually upsets motorists. I hear people say it all the time. And I go, “I get where you’re coming from. However…” You know, I try to defend cyclists. But, you know, if we all ran by the same rules or all, you know, followed the same rules, that would actually be optimum. You’re probably never going to see that, you know. There are always people that are going to break rules. It’s just how it is. And they shouldn’t spoil it for everyone. And so, you know, I have to say I am very, very careful around cyclists, and I really wish everyone was because the truth is a cyclist is never going to win against your car. SV: Yeah. RJ: It, you know—And, you know, as soon as, you know, you hear of, you know, a cyclist getting hit by a car and they’re like “Oh, it’s obviously the car’s fault.” Sometimes it isn’t. I mean, really sometimes it isn’t. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I do think we need to, again, create the opportunities, education and, you know, let’s just get into eBikes for one second. The kids should not be on the eBikes that are above their ability. It is a moving vehicle. It is like being on a moped or a motorcycle. I am—oftentimes, I see the kids, you know, going wayward and crazy on them. And you know what? It’s a recipe for disaster. And then, you know what? There are accidents that happen. And, you know, it shouldn’t be all on the driver. The cyclists, you know, including the eBikes really need to be responsible. I really would love to see more education in that. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: I have brought that up numerous times. I think the school district really should take a lead in this. I know our deputies at our Sheriff’s station do it as well. But, you know, a lot of kids are riding them to school. And it’s very dangerous. Parents, pay attention! (laughs) SV: Yep. RJ: They just think, “Oh, it’s just a bicycle.” It’s really not. And it really is very dangerous and, you know, we can’t parent the kids. That’s not our job. The parents need to parent their kids and they need to teach them how to be responsible with their bicycles, their eBikes especially. SV: Yeah. eBikes are a new wrinkle to resolve, I think, in the whole transit conversation. RJ: They are. And scary! It really is scary but, you know, very beneficial because they can take you longer and, you know, longer distances quicker. And you don’t have to be in super good shape to use them. But if you’re not responsible with them, they’re very, very dangerous. SV: Yeah. They’re good for the hills around here too. RJ: Yeah. For sure. I know. Someone said “Oh, yeah, just, you know, ride your bicycle around town.” And I’m like “Yeah. That’s—” We’re very hilly in San Marcos. SV: Yep. (both laugh) All right. So, we talked a little bit about your campaign, that first campaign, in 2008. I guess I wanted to circle back a little bit to even before that, to the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force that you served on from 2005-2007. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: And I was just curious as to what was the goal of the Task Force? RJ: It was to come up with a plan of mixed use and utilizing that entire area which, by the way, you know, we’ve been updating our general plan. We’ve put that on hold for now and we’re going to have a greater emphasis on bringing the Creek District part into that because we do need to update that plan. So, FEMA has updated the flood plain and all of those, you know, different areas are going to be changed due to in a 100-year flood, what happens? You know, if we get the torrential sort of rain that we had, you know, recently, another time or worse than that, oh my gosh. It makes a big difference. We have—excuse me (hiccups) —we haven’t had a situation where it’s flooded all the way from Escondido. But it could very well happen. And so, you know, being prepared is important. You’re not going to build a bunch of buildings in the flood way. It just isn’t going to happen. Currently, there is, you know, the Valley Christian School that’s over there. It’s in the flood way. So, they can’t, you know, change their buildings or anything like that. The reason I bring that up is that’s kind of like the edge of the Creek District area and then it goes all the way over behind Grand, or right around Grand. And there’s actually affordable housing that’s right in that area. So, what we did is we approved a plan for that. And then we also started getting the permits from the agencies so we could build the infrastructure. The infrastructure will be done this year. That’s a big first step in actually moving that forward. But, then again, you know we still need to incorporate the part of the land use changes are going to happen. We also have had people like Gary London come in and say “You’ve got too much commercial to the residential. You’re going to need to make some tweaks.” So, it likely will not build as dense as we had originally approved. So, we really do need to update it and bring in those changes, you know, bringing in the flood plain. And then also the fact that the infrastructure is actually done also changes things too. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, the emphasis will be on getting that updated as well as the general plan. SV: Okay. So, the original goal then with the Task Force and into when you served on it then was to create the plan that is now kind of being put into effect. RJ: Yes, exactly. SV: And did it account for a Creek District at that time? Because the Creek District is going to be like a public/private partnership that will help with development. RJ: Well, there was 62 property owners in there today. SV: Okay. RJ: You know, when we approved that, yeah. It was to bring an it, a place, a place where people could come— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —congregate, as I had mentioned earlier, and really, you know, a space where it would be, you know, open. And, you know, you could have, you know, different community events there and that sort of thing. Also, North City is that way. North City we actually approved as a university district back in 2009. We always thought the Creek would come first. Well, University District has now really become. And again, you know, we don’t even have an actual downtown in San Marcos. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, you know, creating a downtown, creating that space. It looks like North City is becoming that. You know, we’ve got the Belgian Waffle Ride coming this weekend. It’s the largest cycling event in the western United States. It’s a big deal. Thousands of cyclists are coming from all over. They’re going to be eating in our city. They’re going to be staying here. We don’t have a ton of hotels. There are going to be a couple of other ones in North City and then also in the Creek District eventually. But really creating that downtown was one of the things that we really wanted to do. But we always saw North City—a university district back then when we approved it—and then the creek, because they connect. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Having that as a center core for the city. SV: When do you think North City will be built out? RJ: Oof. Well, that depends on so many different things. If I had a crystal ball, I could answer that. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, they’ve been (sighs), they’ve been through a downturn in the economy. They’ve been through a pandemic. You know, they’ve been through a lot. If you go there today, you know, they’ve got several restaurants. They’ve got the only, first of its kind, building with the university which is the Extended Learning Building because there’s nothing like that in all of California. And then you’ve got like Mesa Rim. You’ve got Draft Republic which was the old Urge Gastropub. You have Newtopia Cyder, Fresh Café, Maya’s Cookies, Wynston’s Ice Cream, Copa Vida, Buona Forcbetta, Umami, a lot of things happening there but, you know, not the residences. You have a little bit of residence there. You’ve got the quad, which is university, you know, kids that live there. And then you have Block C. And then you have the block that’s The Wrap behind. And then also, you know, don’t forget too Pima Medical is right there. And then, you know, you’ve got medical offices now, Scripps Health. And so, a lot of things are happening. It really is on the edge of becoming something much bigger. They have broken ground on and they’re moving forward with the first large-scale residential in there. And it’s going to be about 12 stories high. And so that will really be a game changer, I think, for North City. I think that will be what brings the really the grocery store and the other businesses that they need that can actually handle those residents and offer the services that they need. And, you know, that’s always what the Creek was envisioned. I mean these are things that I learned when we were, you know, going on these field trips to old Pasadena and, you know, all these different places that were mixed use because we didn’t really have much mixed use at that time in the city. We have a little bit over off of Mission but it’s very, very small scale. You know, having the meeting spaces, having the, you know, congregation spaces where you can have like an open-air amphitheater, something like that, that’s all things that really we started with the planning of the Creek District. Again, you know, we have to update that. But really—And it, you know, kind of grew into also North City being part of that, being a large scale downtown core area for us. SV: Yeah. There is a lot of construction going on right now. RJ: Yes. There is. SV: You have the infrastructure going on along the Creek District. You have it seems like three or four different projects right around North City and in North City. RJ: Yeah. So, you know, okay. So, back when I was selling new homes in my early twenties, I was working at Discovery Creek, Discovery Trail, so Discovery Hills. And back then we had, you know, this big map that showed everything that was going to happen in the, you know, the adjoining property. Back then, Craven wasn’t even there. I mean this—just to date myself of how long I’ve been around in San Marcos. First moved here in 1987. Just looking at, you know, what it was going to be with Kaiser Hospital, Scripps Hospital which isn’t going to happen now. But they are going to have medical offices, much like Carmel Mount Ranch. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, pretty large-scale medical offices. You know, unfortunately, you know medical is always something that we need. And, you know, fortunately though we’ve got some space to put that. You know, we don’t want people to have to go all the way down to Carmel Mount Ranch to go to a doctor. And, you know, currently Kaiser Permanente doesn’t have a hospital. The nearest one is Mira Mesa. So, 180,000 subscribers in North County have to go all the way there for a hospital. So, it’s going to be opening up in August I’m told. They’ve got a ribbon cutting all scheduled. And the Creek project, the infrastructure, it’s about $112 million to start. That is our largest capital improvement project we’ve ever had. We broke ground on that on my one-year anniversary of taking office as Mayor, which is exciting being that, you know, I’d only been talking about it for 10-12 years (laughs) before that. And, you know, before me many other councils had talked about it. You know, this year is our 60th anniversary or birthday, and our sister city Vista, it’s their birthday as well. We were incorporated on January 28, 1963. And so, here we are. We’re in our birthday year, opening up our largest capital improvement project, opening up our hospital. I mean, a lot is happening. There’s also an extension of Discovery which is about $40 million as well, 30-40 million. That is going from Craven all the way through to Twin Oaks. That’s a big deal too, getting that done. But, you know, we’re trying to move people around in a meaningful way. That will be one of our first corridors that has intuitive lighting, stop lights that will help people get through. But one of the things that I’ve really focused on that I want to get done is to make sure that we’re getting the traffic flow better. Traffic, it does feel like it’s at its worst. That’s one of the things that my opponent was using against me during the campaign. I’m like “Well, we’ve got all this road construction. Sure as heck, we’re going to have terrible traffic right now.” But when it’s done, I believe it will be a significant improvement. You know, getting the flooding to stop so you no longer have that. Being able to have two lanes over Via Veracruz is a big deal. And I remember originally when we were talking about, you know, the Bent Crossing. We talked about a—to save money, well, what if we did an Arizona Crossing, which I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. SV: I’m not. RJ: It would still flood! SV: Okay. RJ: And I said “No. No. No. Let’s, let’s not do that.” So, we were able to apply for federal funds. And so, a lot of it is grant funded but a lot of money also comes from San Marcos residents. So again, you know, back to wanting to spend their money wisely. Helping move them around the city is really important. We appreciate everyone being so patient—not always patient. But, you know, it has been a tough, tough project because we’ve had unprecedented rain this year, of course. Of course, it had to happen! Just when we weren’t expecting it to happen. But, you know, it would have been a heck of a lot worse had we not had the bridge at Bent opened. I think that could have been actually dangerous for our residents if we had not gotten so far ahead on that. But that will be done probably about a July timeframe. So, the infrastructure will be done. The hospital will come right after that in August. I would say it’s a good year, a good year that we’re getting a lot done, you know, the hospital done and everything, just a lot of good things for our residents. And again, you know, the jobs that we’re providing too, that’s a thousand jobs at Kaiser Permanente. So, those are some really good high-paying jobs. I think that’s a huge win. I’m really proud of that. You know, when I first got the call from their west coast person, he said to me “Are you still interested in the hospital?” And I was like “Where do I sign up?” (laughs) Because, yes! Of course, I’m still interested. Anything we can do to help make that happen, you know. And, you know, also having the university have, you know, the nursing program has been really important. And then, you know, also over at Palomar because, you know, these are also the ability to teach, you know, hands on is a big deal. And, you know, we’re becoming a healthcare hub, now, of North County which is great, you know, with the hospital opening up and then Scripps are moving forward with their big medical offices. It’s, you know, again it’s sad that people are not healthy, however good that they have the ability to get those healthcare options close to home. SV: Yeah. RJ: And the good jobs, of course. SV: Yes. RJ: Yeah. SV: Yeah. Definitely. RJ: In fact, my niece actually just got her nurse’s license. So, very exciting. SV: Congratulations to your niece. RJ: Yes, very exciting. SV: I wanted to circle back a little bit to 2018 and just ask you why did you decide to run for mayor then? RJ: Oosh, well, I decided well before 2018. I actually decided when I was getting elected in 2016 as mayor. I talked to my husband at the time and, you know, ’18 was a tough year, I have to tell you. I was finishing up my divorce. He told me he didn’t want to be married anymore in 2017. So, I was in the middle of a divorce. I had to sell the property, buy a property. I moved 10 days after the election. A lot of people don’t know how hard that was. It was really tough. But, you know, what I knew that, again, you know being apolitical, really pretty apolitical, was an important thing for our future. I think also, you know, having these large-scale things coming up. I wanted to see them through. And, you know, I have to tell you, looking back and seeing all that we have been able to accomplish during my time on the council, I’m so proud. I know that when I’m ready to retire, I can look back and be very proud of what I’ve been able to accomplish with very, you know, diverse group of people. We now have three women, by the way, on the city council which is great. But, you know, again, you know, for 2018 having the first mayor that’s a female, that’s pretty surprising. You know, as progressive as the city is and, you know, how entrepreneurial we’ve really been, I always thought it would be Pia Harris Ebert, which she has been a wonderful mentor to me. I can’t express enough how much I value her leadership, all of her 24 years on the city council. But, you know, when she told me she was retiring, I said, “What?? You can’t go!” and she said, “You know what? I can look back and I can be very proud.” I mean we used to be known for our chicken ranch and then our dairy. And that was it! We were known as a chicken ranch and dairy city, not for higher learning education, being a great place to run a family, a great school district. We were never known for that. We were known for other things. So, I really am proud of how we’ve elevated who we’ve become, the city that we are, and all that we have accomplished. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, the things needed to be seen through and now, you know, I’m on my second term as mayor just, you know, getting reelected last year. I am very happy. I’m very happy. But I’m also, you know, as concerned about, you know, creating opportunity for a new team to come in that is like-minded, focusing on us being a safe city, focusing on us being an entrepreneurial city, also making sure that we are serving our community and providing awesome trails and parks and all of that. And it becomes very challenging when you’re an infill city, and as built out as we are. So, you know, it’s got to be, you know, trying to find good people that want to come after me. And that’s, you know, what both Pia Harris Ebert and Hal Martin did. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And I appreciate that. And I take that responsibility very seriously as well. So, that’s what I’m going to be doing the next three years, three and a half years. And then, you know, making sure that we stay focused. And we’re going to have some tough financial times. You know, it’s—business has not come back the way that we’ve all hoped. And so, you know, we hear of layoffs all the time. You know, General Atomics, I think they laid off 400 people last week. That’s a lot! So, having those challenges you really do need to have a good team in there. But, you know, I’m trying to bring other people forward because that’s a big part of, you know, a succession plan. It’s really important. SV: Yeah. You mentioned businesses haven’t come back. Were you referring to from the pandemic? RJ: Correct. Yes. SV: Yeah. RJ: Just not in the way—you know, we do have a lot of businesses that have opened. But, you know, we also lost some. I mean, San Marcos Brewery, I still am sad about that, you know, a long-time business in our city, gone. Couldn’t keep their doors open with the open and closing and all of that. There are a lot of stories like that, unfortunately. And so, you know, being able to support the business community, I work a lot at that. I mean if I—I try to do everything I possibly can to support our businesses. And, you know, it’s not like one business. It’s thousands, you know. We’ve got like four tho—let me think here—four thousand businesses here in the city. It’s a lot! SV: Yeah. RJ: It’s a lot. It’s actually upwards of four thousand. And, you know, many of those are store fronts and they’re very small and, you know, they’re family owned. And, you know, I love that. I love that they’re thriving. I love that they’re doing well. I was actually just at a business opening a couple of weeks ago. The father-in-law of this young woman that just opened a brand-new business, he is a long-time business owner in San Marcos, twenty—I think twenty-six years he’s been in business. So, you know, seeing those generations, you know, staying in the city, opening up new businesses. I love that. But, you know, they’re going to need our help. And, you know, they need us to congregate and go to their businesses and, you know, spend our money here locally. And I try to always, you know, emphasize that. You know, during the pandemic, I tirelessly spent so much time on, you know, media just hey talking about all of our great businesses, and what about this and what about that and you know they need us now. But they need us still now. It’s not going to end. And, you know, a lot of them are really struggling. So, as costs go up, people eat out less. They spend less of their money. And so, we’ve got to remember that, when you can, try to spend it locally, whenever possible. SV: Yeah. I imagine a lot of governance is trying to minimize the bad impacts of change, you know, unforeseen or foreseen. And you talked a little bit about the pandemic. I was curious as to, you know, what you could do to lessen the burden on folks during that time and what you all did do. RJ: Gosh. Wow, we did a lot actually. We were the first city that—you know, we have always had very good reserves. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, that’s something that is because we’ve been very fiscally responsible. That money is for rainy days. And when the pandemic came, that was a rainy day. SV: Yeah. RJ: It really was. And so, we set aside $3 million. We were the first city, I believe. The only other city that may have actually beat us was the city of San Diego. But I think they set aside like $5 million. We set aside $3 million. They’ve got a population of 1.3 million. SV: Yeah. RJ: We have a population of under 100. So, I think we really outshined them in that. And I’m really proud that we did that. And that is, you know, that’s being very, very pro-business. I’ve always been pro-business, you know, being that I owned my own business and I know how hard it was. I thought that was something that we should do. And I wholeheartedly believe it’s the right thing to do for our community. But, anyway, so we did that. And we had business loans. So, it was small business loans up to $50,000, depending on your circumstances. We hired an outside company to do all the credit checks. And just, you know, you couldn’t be late prior to Covid. You know, you had to meet a few guidelines. But we were very intentional about trying to get that money out fast, as fast as possible. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: The federal government didn’t have any money out. And we had already saved a lot of businesses. Then the other thing that we did is we were the first city that had our businesses, as soon as the governor—I remember watching the press conference. And Governor Newsom said, when he was talking about some of the businesses could no longer be operating inside, but he didn’t say outside! I was on the phone to our economic development director, and I said, “I’m thinking we can have outside businesses. What can we do to make this as quick as possible.” And we had people moving their businesses. And it was a lot of services, like haircutting and all of that. And then there was another issue about that because—and, you know, restaurants and everything. But there was another issue with that because they didn’t have their business licenses. So, we were actually fighting to open up. And, you know, I mean, again, tirelessly, the letters that I sent to the governor. I mean, I was on full blown action I felt like the whole time, which is very exhausting. SV: Yeah. RJ: But it was like okay, let’s get those businesses moved outside as soon as they can. And we had businesses and we’re like “Don’t worry about your permit. We’re going to check, make sure that you are following it. Just follow these guidelines and we’ll come and check on you.” We had businesses out there before any other. And we didn’t charge anyone a fee. There were a lot of cities that were out there charging them a fee. We’re like no. We need our businesses to stay in place. We need to support them, and we can’t just say that we’re supporting them. We actually have to do it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, I am really proud that we did that. And, you know again, we didn’t close all of our trails. We were not very out in public, you know, screaming it from the rooftops that we’re open because we didn’t want our city residents to feel crowded because all of the other residents from the other cities were coming, though some people knew about them. It was just—it was important for us to do everything we could to support the community. So, fast forward to when we received our federal funds, we were actually able to take all of those loans and make them grants so they didn’t have to be paid back. That was huge. SV: Yeah. RJ: The other thing that we did is we set aside some of our ARPA funds to help our non-profits. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Because they were really hurting at that time too. And I am so proud of all of the things that we did during the pandemic because it was us being innovative, us cutting through the red tape, and us working hard to support our businesses and our community and our non-profits. Because our non-profits support our residents, right? And then the other thing that we also did is—and it’s not our responsibility, though we recognized that our community, our youth were doing very poorly. You know, I’ve been involved with the Boys and Girls Club for many years. And one of the things that they—I was having a conversation with them—one of the things that they were saying is that many of the kids that are at risk were not checking in. And so, you know, you’ve got parents that are very frustrated. The kids are at risk of being abused or neglected. And you’ve got this ultra tough situation happening. So, the mental health of our community, you know, we’ve really tried to focus on that too. And so, one of the things that we did for our youth in the community is we partnered with the school district, and we are equally funding the mental health program that they have rolled out to help the kids bounce back and figure out. You know, a lot of them are so confused. A lot of them have learning deficits. They don’t know how to articulate that, their frustration, their fear and, you know, just getting sick. You know, a lot of them are terrified of getting sick. And, you know, what is life going to be? It’s very different. SV: Yeah. RJ: You know, back to the whole pivot—I mean, I know pivot is kind of overused during the pandemic, but it’s a real thing. And so, for us as a city, you know, we made an intentional effort to do what we could to also help the kids. And, you know again, I think I told you this a little bit earlier, you know, I had people—I felt like a counselor many times during the pandemic. I had some of our folks calling me up and sending me messages and saying, you know, “I’m scared.” And so, I would check in on people and let them know, “Hey. You know what? You’re seen. You’re heard. We care about you.” So, you know, mayor’s job is not just all legislation. You know, there’s a lot of parts to it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I think something that a lot of people think is really, it’s just all about rules and regulations. That’s all your job is. Well, I think as a mayor especially, and a councilmember to some degree, but I think as a mayor I’m the figurehead pretty much for the city council. A lot of people know who the mayor is, and they might not know who their councilperson is. For me to be the face of our city, out there letting people know that we care about them and letting them know that it’s not all about rules and regulations. We actually had a young man that was murdered within our community by one of his friends. He was in his early 20s. And, you know, we renamed a trail after him, actually the Gratitude Trail in his memory, right there around Discovery Lake because us doing things to help our community heal in tough times, in tragic times, is really important. And I really do think that that’s a part of government that sometimes people are like “Well, I’m a politician. I don’t have to do that.” Yeah, you don’t have to do it. But I think doing it is important because, again, you know, how—you know, during the pandemic, people needed to know we care about you. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: We care about your businesses. We’re all in with you. We’re going to do everything we can to keep you open and do it safely, of course. But, you know, when it was all the big businesses could stay open and then the small businesses were closed. They couldn’t adapt to that! SV: Yeah. RJ: Many of them went out of business. And, you know, so we had to make it so that it’s easy for every small business to get a fair shake, to be treated like a large business, you know, while also following the health order. So, it was a real tough time. And, again you know, back to grief. You’ve got to deal with grief too within a community and figure out how to move people forward. And, you know, one of the things that I think is always important is, even if you’re taking baby steps moving forward, you’ve got to move forward. Whatever that looks like. And sometimes it’s very different than two weeks ago even. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I mean when the pandemic hit, remember, two weeks! Staying home. SV: Yeah. We have a archive that we started mostly with the students, but with community as well, trying to record experiences during that time. RJ: Yeah. SV: And it’s amazing so many students especially writing “I thought I was going to have a two-week vacation and here I am a year later.” And, you know, it’s just— RJ: Yeah. SV: —it’s just a traumatic experience all the way around. RJ: For sure. And, you know, I mean that is a part, I think, of being a mayor during a pandemic that I—you know, it’s kind of interesting. I was on a Zoom with some girl scouts, and they said to me “If you knew there was going to be a pandemic, would you still run for mayor?” (Sean laughs) And it was funny because I didn’t even hesitate and I said, “Absolutely!” SV: Yeah. RJ: And the reason being is because I was the right person at the right time. I am very positive and I’m very—I mean, you know, the glass is not half-full. The glass is almost to the top, right? There’s always a way to bring everyone together. There’s always a way to, you know, encourage people. And, you know, that’s what I did! My job changed. But I kept working. And, you know, there were a lot of people that really needed to be seen and I let them know they were being seen. SV: Yeah. RJ: I think without hesitation I am glad that I was the mayor at that point in time. SV: Mm-hmm. It’s a really interesting thing that you say about there being—I guess you’re saying so your job is obviously legislation. But it’s also emotional labor and care and I’m hearing as well, communication is important. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: What are some other aspects? I guess my question is what would surprise people the most about your job that people don’t know? RJ: Oh, that’s a tough one. Gosh, I don’t even know if I have an answer to that. You know, it’s interesting. So, Jeff Zevely, he’s from Channel 8. He actually was doing a show on our birthday. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And he said to me, he goes “You know, if San Marcos had a cheer squad, would you be on it?” and I said, “I’m the head cheerleader! What are you talking about?” (both chuckle) And he even said to me after the interview, he goes “You were so fast. You didn’t even like stop for one second.” I said, “Well, that’s my job.” My job is to not just deal with all the tough stuff. It’s also to be out advocating that San Marcos is a great place to live. We have so much for—You know, you can start out, you know, as a baby. And pretty soon you’ll be able to be born here (indicates quotations with her fingers), actually born here, because—I mean, I guess you could be born at your house if you’ve got a midwife or something but, you know, it’s not a traditional thing. You could be born here, and you can earn a master’s degree and then you could work here, and you could have a good paying job. Like that is a remarkable thing if you look at our city from our humble roots: one stop light, chicken ranch, the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch right here where the university is today. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And Hollandia Dairy. That’s all we were known for. And so, yeah, I would say a lot of people might not know what that entails but it’s a lot of time and effort. I can assure you of that. SV: Yeah. RJ: Like it’s almost more than the actual job, although I do a lot of reading. So, that’s probably the most time consuming part of my job, you know, because when I show up, you know, I’ve even had people at SANDAG say—that are a different political party than me—say, “You know, I might not—” And actually this happened like maybe, well it’s happened a few times, but in the last couple of weeks, where this man got up and he said, “You know, Mayor Jones—” and I’m like going “Oh gosh. What’s he going to say?” (both laugh) You never know, right? And then he says, “Mayor Jones, even though I philosophically don’t agree with you on everything, I appreciate that you are always prepared, and you know exactly what you’re talking about because you’re prepared.” And it really does require a lot of time and effort. And, you know, there are times I wake up and I’m like “I’m tired today. I don’t want to work.” But I don’t get that luxury. I have to do what I have to do. And I’ve got to pull it together. And it is a very—you know, the cheerleading part of it and I’m not saying it, you know, like a cheerleader—but, you know, being again the spokesperson, the person that’s in the front, the person that’s out and about the most, probably one of the most identifiable positions in the community—even if people don’t know me, they know that there’s a mayor. You know, to be the mayor of such an incredible city, I’m really humbled by it. I really am. But it does take a lot of effort and it does take a lot of, you know, inner strength. And, you know, I had a pretty tough childhood and, you know, I was a latchkey kid a lot of the time. And, you know, my parents got divorced when I was eleven which is a really tough age. And I had a lot of things happen where I just go “Gosh, I wish it wouldn’t have been my life.” However, it was. But you know what? It also gives me the authority when people are, you know, telling me “You know, I’m going through tough times,” I get it! I was there. I’ve been there. And, you know, I think it helps me do a very good job. And, you know, not everyone thinks I do a good job. But I just got reelected so— SV: Yep! RJ: —again, 64% of the vote. I don’t think I mentioned that before. But the largest margin I’ve ever won by, I think that is a testament to how much I care for the community, how hard I work for the community, and the fact that it’s not all about legislation to me. It really is about being the cheerleader and the person that’s out in the front, talking about what a remarkable community we have. And when I say, “the community,” it’s the people. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It’s not me. It’s people that I represent. And I hope that they will always feel like they can reach out to me, and I will always try to help them in whatever I can. SV: Yeah. Thank you. I think I had maybe one or two more questions. But something that I didn’t necessarily prepare to talk about in this interview, I wanted to ask you about was you mentioned you’re the first mayor that was elected that’s a woman in San Marcos history. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: And I was curious if there are considerations that, in your opinion, that women politicians have to take into account that men do not. RJ: Huh! (Sean chuckles) Well… SV: I know that’s a big question. RJ: Well, I’m also not married. So, it actually is quite awkward— SV: Yeah. RJ: —in a lot of ways, you know, because I am out there. It opens it up for—And, you know, there’s a lot of discussion about bias, right? SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: There is still bias against women. It’s sad. But there are. And women politicians! I don’t know if people are surprised all the time. But, I mean, I have been, I mean, I’ve been called names. I’ve been, you know, people try to box me in as I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to believe that it’s 2023 and things still happen the way that they happen because, you know, talking about what I look like, what my body looks like. I’ve had people actually talk about what my body looks like! I’m thinking, wow! You know? Would you say that to your mother? Because I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t. And so, you know, at a job like this that’s very out there, very highly visible—and I am highly visible—you know, I’ve had a few times, very inappropriate comments, inappropriate messages sent to me. And, you know, a couple of times I’m like “Gee, should I be worried?” And I send everything to the Sheriff’s department when I have things that are sent to me that are uncomfortable. But it’s different than being a man. One hundred percent. It’s very different than being a man. I don’t think you have to worry about people talking about what you look like. I don’t think that any man as a mayor would have people sending them messages about what they look like. SV: Yeah. RJ: I don’t think it would ever happen. Now, I don’t really mean if someone says “Oh, I really like how your style.” That’s not sexual. But the truth is a lot of things that are sent are very sexual and I think—I am actually flabbergasted, and you know I’m almost 56 years old. I’m flabbergasted that at 56 years old, as an elected mayor, that I would be treated like this. But it happens! SV: Yeah. RJ: It’s really hard to believe. And, honestly, I feel bad for every woman that is just trying to do a job and it gets distracted and convoluted by people bringing in other things that are just not appropriate. It’s just not appropriate. I mean, talking about what I look like or whether they—I mean, the first thing that someone said to me—I was offended but it was early on—was that my teeth were freakishly white. And I went (makes a puzzled and slightly disgusted look on her face) “Why would someone talk about that?” I don’t even think someone would say that about a man. SV: Yeah. RJ: But I feel like, as a woman, on some level there is this—it’s open to talk about what you’re wearing, what you look like, whether they think you are, you know, someone they would want to date or someone—I mean, like really inappropriate things when you’re just trying to darn well do a job, you know what I mean? So, it really is just hard to believe that here we are in 2025—or 2023. Gosh, I can’t even believe I just said that. (both laugh) SV: What would your advice— RJ: You can cut that part out! (both still laughing) SV: We’ll make a note. What would your advice be to women entering politics? RJ: That’s another tough one. You know, I have a podcast too. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And one of the things about my podcast that I love is that you’ve got women from every different, you know, career, all different political parties. It’s not at all political. But they’re all just doing their job and they found something that they love. So, I guess one of the things that I would tell women that are thinking about politics, if you love it, you should definitely do it because you’re going to be very, very effective when you can put your heart into it. There is a lot of preparation that happens. And like for me, you know, I now am the one with the historical knowledge because I’ve been around so long. There is a lot to learn. I mean, you really do need to try to figure out why things happened. I mean, when I first joined the council, I spent every single Friday, like half a day, with the City Manager because he was with the city for like 24 years to find out everything I could about the why and the how and, you know, just how things happen because I thought that would prepare me which it has. But don’t let the things—I mean, you are going to have to have thick skin. It’s true. You are going to have to have thick skin, thicker than a man that goes into politics. But don’t be deterred by people. You really need to follow what you think is right and bringing in your own style. Like I don’t know anyone that does my job the way that I do it because I do it my way. And I don’t let any political party call me up and tell me what to do. I follow what I believe is right. And I follow the kind of politician that I want to be, though I don’t really consider myself politician, technically I am. But I really just want to do a good job. I want to be prepared. I think as a woman you probably have to be a little more prepared. Otherwise, people will start thinking that “Well, you don’t belong there. You’re not smart enough. You’re not this.” It really is about taking information and making a good decision. If you’re a good decision-maker, you can do this job. You’re qualified. You love the community, you’re qualified. If you are willing to put a lot into it, you’re qualified. Not everyone has that qualification. And when I say qualification, it’s not just what others believe but it’s what you believe on the inside. And, you know again, back to my podcast, my podcast is about elevating women because we really still need elevating. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: As, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, different segments of the population whether you’re a minority, whatever, it really still is about women too. We do fit into that. The equity and the inclusion isn’t all about your race. It’s about also your gender because our gender still is a hinderance. And some people don’t see that. And I wish more people paid attention to that because when you’re a woman, you’re a minority. You really do have more against you than a man that’s a minority. And as a woman that is not a minority, you still have things against you that are something that a man would not experience. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And I wish more people really paid attention to that. But, you know, back to the point of if you’re a woman and you really want to, if you have a heart for politics, you should not let any one person or segment of people deter you if you really, really have the heart for it because you can do it. It just is going to be probably a little harder than it is for a man. SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that answer. And I think it’s wonderful advice. RJ: Thank you. SV: I’ll give you a much nicer question. RJ: Nah, that’s not a hard question at all! I, honestly, and I really do believe it. I mean, it’s terrible! It really is terrible that we’re still there, in 2023. SV: Yeah. RJ: Why did I say 2025? I don’t know. (Sean laughs) SV: It happens. What is the best day of work that you’ve had? RJ: Oh, gosh. There have been a lot of them. I would say I had a really good one recently. And it’s weird because, you know, it’s always something different. But honestly, when I am out in the community at an event and there are kids and they ask me things like—I was at the Boys and Girls Club and I was, of all things, baking cookies with them. So, let me tell you a little story. So, during the pandemic, we decided at West Lake Village that we, the city, that we were—well, we already knew that we were going to have a long-term lease for the Boys and Girls Club so they could expand their services at that location. And then, when we got some of our ARPA funds, we were like okay, we’ll help them with the TIs (tenant improvements) because then that’ll be good for the community because kids can go there and, you know, spend, you know, more time there. So, anyway, I was like “Oh, they’re going to have a kitchen there.” And I was like “That’s so cool.” So, I called up the director—and by the way, I started a girls mentoring program at the Boys and Girls Club which during the pandemic we had to kind of shut down. But I used my tax refund to put some money into it. And I said to them, I said “You know what would be great?” I go, “I really want to come back and spend more time with the kids,” because I’ve been so busy since I got elected as mayor. I don’t always have time to do all the things I really want to do. And I said, “Can I come back and, you know, bake cookies with the kids?” And they were like “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “So, I want to also donate a mixer.” You know, not all kids get to use a really nice KitchenAid mixer. But it’s really cool to use and to learn and, you know again, like to your point, you know. When you’re a chef, you probably are going to be using one of those at some point in time. So, I was like “I really want to buy one.” I’m like “It’s on my heart. I want to do this.” So, I donated the mixer a while ago. And then I’m like, “Gosh. Okay, it’s January. I need to start figuring out when I’m going to get in and bake cookies with the kids because I really want to do it.” And so, we set up a date. It was right after the darn 78 flooding happened. SV: Oh, yeah. RJ: And CalTrans. And it was that day. It was that day at 4 o’clock. I was supposed to go over there and bake cookies with them. And then I had to cancel because Caltrans had to have this emergency meeting. And I was like on Zoom, and I was like “Oh, darn it.” I’m like “Oh, duty calls.” I’m like “Can we reschedule another day?” So, we rescheduled another day. I get there and the kids are so excited to meet the mayor first of all. And this is, by the way, intentionally in one of our lower income areas of the city. It’s over on Autumn Drive. And they’re like “Do you think I could be a mayor?” And I just got to hang out and talk to them and I’m like—and teach them how to make, you know, how to crack the eggs. They were doing so good. And, you know, so there was about—I think there was like 12 or 14 of them. I’m like “I want to go back and do that like so all the kids that go to that branch have that moment of time with me.” Because I appreciated it as much as they did. And so, for me, the moments like that or when I get to go and talk to, you know, kids that are at the Boys and Girls Club service groups like Girls Scouts, Boys Scouts. All of the kids groups, honestly, those are the best days that I always have. I mean, really, the kids are excited. I’m really excited to hear what they have to say. But I also am getting a different—and back to, you know, my point of going out and door knocking and meeting people and hearing what they have to say about the city. I’m hearing it from kids and they’re going to be 100% honest. SV: Yeah. RJ: They’re not going to sugarcoat it. SV: (laughs) That’s true. RJ: They’re not going to try to fluff me up. They’re not going to try to get something out of me. They are going to tell me exactly what they think about their community. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And you know what? I appreciate that. So, for me, it’s always about the moments with the kids when I get to go out and do things like that. It actually fills me so much more than any other moments because, again you know, you do have to put a lot into it. You know, when you’re out there on—and when I say “on” (air quotes with her fingers) you know, you’re talking to people. And I don’t want people to feel like they can’t approach me. So, I’m very approachable. And that is one of the things that I really do pride myself on. I don’t want anyone to feel like I ever don’t approach—you know, they can’t approach me. And so, one of our community members sent me this message recently and he said to me, “You know,” —his daughter was in the kids mentor, the girls mentor group—and he said “You know,” he goes “it was so cute. My daughter, we were talking about something.” And she’s also a Girl Scout. And he said “Yeah. She says ‘Well, I know the mayor.’” (both laugh) And he’s like “and she was saying this, you know, to my wife and, you know, to—we had friends over and she goes ‘yeah, I know the mayor.’” And he goes “It was the coolest thing because she really felt like she connected with me.” And I’m like “She did connect with me.” and I love that. I love that our kids in the community can feel like they connected with me because I feel like they will never probably forget that. And I oftentimes when I’m places—I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. I was getting some food to go from San Marcos Market. There was a mom and the daughter and I were just kind of talking. And I went out to my car, and I got her one of our city pens and then I said to her, and I say this very often—so, you know, our city emblem is a wayfinding sign, a compass—and I said to her, I said, “Do you know what this is?” I took it back to her. I said, “Do you know what this is?” And she goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, you’ll probably see it on all of our San Marcos signs. It’s a wayfinding sign, so it’s a compass.” And I said, “What it stands for is to discover life’s possibilities. And it’s going to be different for you than it is for me and for your little friends. Every single one of you has something that is your path to success.” And it’s not all—Everyone’s not going to go to a four-year college. I actually didn’t go to a four-year college. But everyone’s going to have a path to success. And I want everyone to know that they’ve got something inside of them that is what their path is and, you know, it might not be traditional. It might be traditional, but it might not. And I want everyone to know that there is their best self. There is a place that is a best self for every single person. And, again, it’s going to be very different for everyone. And, you know, my kids, my daughter just graduated from USD. My son went to Palomar. Totally different kids. Totally different people. But it doesn’t mean that one is going to be more successful than the other. And I want people to know that and believe that in themselves. I didn’t have parents that, you know, tried to make me feel like I could be successful in whatever I did. I honestly believe that my parents just wanted me to get married and have babies. And that was all they really hoped for me. And here I am. I’m the mayor of one of the best cities in the county. And I am so grateful for every moment that I get to spend in the community and encouraging people and spending my time letting them know that we believe in them. We care about them. That’s what my job is in a nutshell. And I know it is kind of back to a different point of what we were talking about. But the truth is every moment that you’re inspiring kids in the community is a win for me. SV: Yeah. RJ: So, those days are the best. And, you know, really I try to—I always carry my pens in the car. I’m like “Wait! Just wait!” I try to throw them, honestly, in my purse sometimes or in my pocket or whatever. I don’t always remember. But I think those moments when you just say that one thing, that could change the trajectory of someone’s life. And I know I remember my fourth-grade teacher, Mrs. Long. Here I am, you know, 56 years old almost. And I remember fourth grade, what she said to me. She said, “You can do bigger things than you think you can.” And I just know that that’s why I am the right person, right now, to do what I’m doing. SV: Yeah. RJ: And I’m so grateful for it. And I really have a hard time believing that I actually am doing this, but I love it. Most days I absolutely love it, SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And there are times when you’re tired and you go “I don’t want to get up today.” But then, you know, you have those days where you really just go “Okay. This is going to fill me in. Now, I can get through another week or whatever.” SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I think that’s a great sentiment to end our interview on. I did want to ask you just one more question and that is if there’s anything that I should have asked you that I did not. RJ: No, because honestly, you know how I—I think you realize what my style is. (both laugh) if you don’t bring it up and I want to say it, I’ll just bring it in there. So, no, I don’t think so. SV: Okay. RJ: Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s funny. At KUSI, they’re like “Oh, well, we’ll just ask you one question. You just know what to do.” (both laugh) “You know what, you can just get everything you want to say in.” I’m like “Oh, okay. Thanks!” And, you know, by the way, when I was first elected as mayor, I was like “I can’t go on TV! I’m scared to death! I’m going to be sweating. I’m going to be stressed. I’m going to say wrong things.” Like now, I’m like, I laugh about it. You know, what I said. I’m like “Aw, geez. Two thousand twenty-five. What am I saying?” (raises her hands and chuckles) You know, but I used to be really hard on myself. But you know what? I don’t think people really want perfection. They want truth and honesty and authentic. SV: Yeah. RJ: And, you know, I try to be those things. I try to be, you know—I don’t even honestly think about it. I just try not to be guarded when I am—And, you know, if I show up to something, I don’t want to be the person that is like “Cheese!” (motions as if smiling widely for a camera) take a picture and then leave. Like, I’m there to do whatever you need me to do. Like if I need to take out trash, get icky stuff on my hands, I’m going to do it. Like, I want to be fully engaged when I show up to things. And I don’t think every politician is like that. I honestly wish there were more people, not exactly my style, but really having the reason as the reason, as the real reason, you know what I mean? Not like “Oh, I’m looking for my next thing, my next higher office.” (makes air quotes with hands) You know, I am planning on running for county supervisor next. But if I’m not elected, I’m totally fine. I’ve done good. I really do believe that. I really do believe I’ve done good. SV: Yeah. When are you running for county supervisor? RJ: In 2026, when this term is over. SV: Okay. RJ: So, not to worry. I’m not going to skip like in the middle of my term. So, Jim Desmond will be termed out and I’m running for that seat. And, you know, it’s a bigger job but, you know, the good thing is I will get paid for the hours that I work. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And then I have staff. So, I think I can work on the same level, you know, put in the same amount but have more fruit because I have people working for me and I’m actually getting paid for it. So— SV: Yeah. RJ: You know, because we make less than $12,000 a year. I don’t know if you know that. SV: I didn’t know. RJ: Yeah. Yeah. I’m the best value in the county. (both laugh) Everyone’s like—Well, actually a bunch of my friends are like “You’re the hardest working mayor in the whole county!” And I go “Well, you know, yeah.” But, again, I’m not one of those people that shows up and like takes a picture and leaves. That’s just not my thing. SV: Yeah. RJ: I don’t do that. Anyway. Anything else? SV: No. Thank you so much for your time. RJ: Do you feel like you know me now? SV: I do! RJ: Okay, good. SV: I appreciate you spending some time— RJ: Yeah. SV: —talking with us today. And I think this is going to be really valuable to our students and researchers in the future. So, thank you. RJ: Well, again, you know our city has come such a long way. And we really do have a lot to be proud of. And I really do believe that people that live here and I hear it time and time again, showing up at their house and they’re like “I love it here.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: “I love this city. I really wouldn’t live anywhere else.” And, you know, even when they’re upset about things, they still don’t want to leave. They still are very happy. They’re like “But, it’s better than—” You know, blah, blah, blah. Or where else. So, I think, you know, we’ve built a great place. My first house was over behind Fire Station No. 2. (points in front and to the left with her left hand) And now I live over off of La Marie. (points behind her right shoulder with her right hand) So, I’ve had three houses over here. So, I’ve owned four houses in the city. SV: Nice. RJ: I’m definitely not leaving. SV: Yeah. RJ: I love it here. SV: Well, thank you, again. I appreciate everything. RJ: Of course, yeah. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
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Title
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Jones, Rebecca. Interview April 12, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos.
Identifier
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SC027-034
Subject
The topic of the resource
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy
Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
San Diego Association of Governments
Women in politics
Date
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2023-04-12
Format
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video
Creator
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Rebecca Jones
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sean Visintainer
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
San Diego County (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Rebecca Jones
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/077ed05bf3a5fde17082d0253ae4443f.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
REBECCA JONES
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-04-23
Sean Visintainer: Okay. This is Sean Visintainer and I’m here today with Mayor Rebecca Jones
of San Marcos, California, doing an oral history interview for the Oral History Special
Collections Project at Cal State San Marcos. Today is April 12th. We’re doing the interview in
the University library. Mayor Jones, thank you so much for joining us today.
Mayor Rebecca Jones: Oh, it’s my pleasure.
SV: I wanted to start off just by asking you some questions about local government. And I think
that it’s something that maybe is a little, at times, opaque to people. And so, I was just curious
because local government can look really different depending upon the municipality. For people
that are going to watch this video, researchers in the future, could you describe a little bit about
how local government in San Marcos happens?
RJ: Well, it used to be the great mystery. So, when I actually got involved with the city, I had no
idea how local government worked. So, I tried to remember and put myself from that perspective
as being just a resident and making things easier. And so, what we do, essentially, is we spend
taxpayer money—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —that is from different sources. Most of it is from sales tax. That’s actually where we have
our largest amount of money to spend for the residents. But then we also have property tax. And
most people don’t know this but out of all of the counties in the city, I believe we are the lowest
city that has the smallest share of property tax. So, out of every dollar we get 7.2¢. So, if you
look at just that in itself, it really is very important for us to figure out other ways to actually
generate revenue. So, we are a charter city. And a charter city allows us to actually have property
that we own which is owned by the residents of the city of San Marcos. And all of that revenue
that we actually have coming in—so Creekside Marketplace would be an example of that as well
as City Hall—but all of that money actually helps augment the very low sales tax that we have.
SV: Okay. So, I assume then you have to be very fiscally responsible.
RJ: Very fiscally responsible. And so, anyway, our job as a local government is to spend your
money wisely; keep you safe which is, honestly, our number one concern in my opinion—it
always has been—and then also making sure we have a good quality of life for people. And so,
you know, during my time on the council, I always again, you know, try to remember as a
resident what is important to our residents. And I actually—this is kind of crazy but when I am
campaigning which, you know, I’ve won five elections now—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —when I’m out campaigning, I actually enjoy the part of knocking on a stranger’s door and
knowing that I’m going to get some feedback that I might not ever get otherwise. And so, I think
it’s really important for me to always remember that part of local government, who you’re
serving, which is the residents of the city, but also keeping everyone safe whether you own a
business, whether you live here, or whether you’re visiting here. We want to make sure that we
have that as our highest priority and, you know, people can drive safely through our community,
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come and shop here. If they’re already passing through San Marcos, which a lot of people do, we
want them to, you know, spend a little more money and enjoy themselves. So, just keeping all of
that in perspective is always at the front of what I’m always thinking and part of what my
leadership is and, you know, just having again a good quality of life where people love to visit,
live here, and, you know, a good place to call home.
SV: Mm-hmm. Can you speak a little bit to how the process of government works, the City
Council, the other people that are involved, the Deputy Mayor, yourself?
RJ: Yeah. So, essentially, there is a City Council Manager style government. So, you might hear
about like a strong Mayor. It’s not that. There’s only one city in the entire county that has that
and that’s the city of San Diego. But a Council Manager form of government, local government,
means that there are five council people. We pretty much have the same authority. However, I
can put anything on the agenda which I have done in the past. But also, you know, I work very
closely with the City Manager. I don’t really have any extra authority.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: There’s a few little things but nothing major. And so, there are five of us that really have to
look out for the best of what’s going on in the community. And we actually started districts back
in 2018 and that actually changed things a bit, because that was the first time where we had
councilmembers that were working specifically and being elected specifically in one area of the
city. So, we have four districts and I’m at-large, so I’m elected by the entire city. And so, each
one of us, you know, we have things that are important to us. We bring them forward. And then
we try to get a consensus on them. My job is to make sure we’re all getting along—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —making sure that everyone’s voice is heard, and then also making sure that, you know, we
always are remembering, even if you’re not representing technically District 1, for instance, that
really District 2, 3, and 4 also matter. And, you know, we only have a certain amount of money,
and we really need to make sure that we’re, you know, spending money where the greatest need
is but also not just focusing on one part of the city.
SV: Yeah. You spoke about consensus building, and I think that’s really interesting since it
seems like a lot of decision making has to be shared decision making in San Marcos. How do
you go about building consensus?
RJ: Well, the biggest, most important thing, in my opinion, is not being political.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, once you bring political parties into it, you really just spoil everything, to be
honest. And so, my job has always been as I’ve seen it is to be apolitical, for the most part.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then also making sure that we are, you know, again spending money wisely and, you
know, really addressing all of the needs and the wishes in the community. And making sure that
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everyone feels that they’re part of the city is also good, you know. It’s doing well. It’s safe. It’s
very important for everyone, like I said, to be safe. I think that has always been super important
but even more now than ever because there are a lot of people that don’t feel safe. You know,
our world has changed. Laws are not the same that they used to be. And so, it’s really important
to make sure that, again, your funding, your fire department, and then also your sheriff
deputies—we are a contract city, which let me speak to that for just one moment.
SV: Sure.
RJ: I’ve had a lot of people during, you know, the downturn in the economy and, you know,
during a lot of political things that have happened, saying to me, “Should we have our own
police force?” Well, we actually still are one of the cities that has the lowest crime rate in the
entire county. And so, that’s an important thing. Are we—what is the need? What is the
problem? And so, you know, starting our own department would be very expensive, probably
$3-4 million dollars. And, if it’s not broken, why fix it?
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, we actually are very lucky that we have some great captains that have come in.
We have them for about two or three years, max. But they always end up being the cream of the
crop. They end up moving on and actually being maybe an under-Sheriff or, you know, an
assistant Sheriff. And so, you know, we really have had some great, you know, leaders in our
Sheriff department. But a lot of people like to come back to our city. They might come here as a
young Deputy, move on, and then they like to come back because it is a good place. We do have
an excellent relationship with them, with the City Council and the Sheriff Department. And so, I
think that really is very telling that, again, back to “if it’s not broken, why try to fix it when
you’re doing very well.” And that’s, you know, one of the things that I think you do need to
always keep in mind is, when things are going well, pay attention to what actually is working.
You don’t have to change everything just for the sake of changing it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But you also don’t need to have things that you look at and say, “Well, we’ve been doing it
that way twenty years, the same way, and it doesn’t work.” That’s when you need to pay
attention. So, anyway, I’m very happy with our sheriff deputies and then also our fire department
too, because they really do bring a sense of wellbeing to our community.
SV: Yeah. We had to call the fire department—
RJ: Oh no!
SV: —not too long ago. They responded very promptly. They—
RJ: Good.
SV: —were wonderful.
RJ: Okay! Well, that’s good to know.
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SV: So, we were very happy with how they did.
RJ: Yeah. Good.
SV: So, you talked about identifying change and maybe not needing change for the purpose of
making change.
RJ: Right. Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell.
SV: I’m a little bit—I was curious how you identify need. So, it’s important to see what doesn’t
need to be changed. But how do you go about recognizing where there is a need?
RJ: Well, a lot of it has to do with feedback, to be honest. I mean, really, if you see something
that maybe isn’t going as well as you had hoped, I mean a lot of it has to do with how people are
feeling in the community. Do they feel like their voices are being heard? And their voice is being
heard doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting everything that they want.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Sometimes, you have to say no. And, you know, that’s the big picture. We have nearly
100,000 people and we have—you know, that live here full-time, and we’ve got about 40,000
students that are coming in, that go to CSU, to Palomar College and all of our other higher
learning institutions. It’s a lot of people. That’s really about 140,000 people that are, you know,
coming into our city every day, whether they live here full-time or not. You know, you have to
figure out how you serve them. So, again, you know, are you providing opportunities for them to
actually enjoy themselves, have recreation. You know, we are actually known for our parks,
which I think is really important at keeping people out and active. And, you know, during the
pandemic for instance, many of the cities were closing their trails and their parks. We followed
the health orders, but we kept our trails open, and we kept our parks, for the most part, open. We
did close our climbing structures and that sort of thing. But we always felt that it was very
important to keep people out and active and having those opportunities because mental wellbeing is important in a community. But then, also having opportunities for people to open
businesses. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about for years—and this year
it is our first time; we’re actually calling it one of our goals— and that’s concierge service, that is
the customer experience because the customers are the community. And then, also, the business
owners, when they come into City Hall, do they feel welcomed? Do they feel like it’s easy for
them? They get the support that they need to open a business. Or, if they’re making changes to
their property or something like that, are we doing everything we can? And, again, do they have
that concierge experience? And so, we’re doing a lot of different things. We actually are just
launching something in the next couple of weeks that will help people understand more about
conditional use permits and opening businesses and finding out where their dream can come true
of opening a business in the city and where it’s actually available to already open pretty easily, or
where it might take a little more work on their end. And so, you know, we just are trying to
always make that experience a little bit better. And, you know, I’m really proud of all the work
that we’ve done since I’ve been on the council. This is my 17th year on the city council. And so,
it’s been a long time.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I remember when I first joined the council, I was the only woman at the
time. And I remember saying “Well, you know it would be great if we had good customer
service.” And at the time, that did not go over very well (Sean chuckles). There was this “Well,
what is that all about?” And, you know, now if you look forward, you know, to where we are
today and how important that is to us, we’ve changed a lot. And so, you know, again, changing
things that you identify as having issues and it’s not just what I think. A lot of it really does have
to do with getting feedback from our community.
SV: Mm-hmm. How do you solicit feedback?
RJ: Well, I try to make as many—myself—as available as possible. And, you know, we talked
about this a little bit earlier about, you know, being available. This is a full-time job.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: It could happen in a grocery store. It could be happening at the park. Wherever I am, I know
that it is important for me to be available.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, Chamber of Commerce events. Really anywhere is a way. I have a very opendoor policy, emails, social media, even though I don’t love social media. It does offer a way for
people to connect with me. And so, I think, again, that is really important. You know, and then
my cell phone. I have it on my cards. I give it to everyone. I have a lot of people that just reach
out to me and say, “You know what? I met you at this event. You gave me your card because I
asked for it. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing this with you. But here’s what I’m
thinking.” And I think that is, in itself, being a mayor of the people. Being available is so
important. And, again, you know back to the point that I made a little earlier as well, and that is
being as apolitical as possible. I really do believe that that’s the best way that you can serve your
community. Not making anyone feel left out and bringing everyone together and being that
consensus builder is really important. So, I work very wholeheartedly and very diligently at
doing that.
SV: Yeah. So, you’re pretty much always on duty.
RJ: I am.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I am which, you know, makes it difficult. It is a hard job—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —to do, you know, pretty much all day every day. But, you know, I have to say I look
around the city and I do have to pinch myself sometimes, thinking “You know, I was a part of
that.” And “Oh, I was a part of that.” I mean, I really am proud of what our community has
become.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, and we really have grown significantly. We are a college town. And then, you
know, we’ve really done a good job, I think, at juggling following state mandates, making sure,
again you know, our community is a good place to call home, also to do business in. You know,
it really encompasses a lot of different things. But I’ve been very intentional about, you know,
making the things that are important to our residents important to me as well.
SV: Mm-hmm. Could you talk a little bit about how the city government functions within the
larger context of, I guess, the county?
RJ: Oh yeah.
SV: You know, how the different municipalities interact and then how the county government as
well, functions with the city.
RJ: So, all mental health is handled through the county. That’s probably the biggest difference of
the county and then cities. So, there are 18 cities plus the county. And then what we have is
several different, you know, regional groups that we are, you know, part of. So, one being
SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments) which is mainly transportation. And then
you’ve got also North County Transit which is for North County. And it’s our transit operator.
And so, and then there’s like the water—we don’t actually have our own water department. So,
Vallecitos Water District handles that. We are a little different than some cities. Like the city of
Carlsbad, they also serve the water as well. But we don’t do that. You know, just really the
biggest thing is when we’re on a board together, you have to wear a regional hat.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You have to figure out—because we don’t work independently as silos. We do work
together. You know, when you look at transportation in itself, you know a lot of people drive
cars, about 97% of the county, about only 2-3% honestly actually use transit. It’s not a system
that actually runs often enough for it to be, you know, serving most people for their lives. Plus, a
lot of people have lifestyles that really it doesn’t fit within their lifestyles. But then there are a lot
of people—well, not a lot, but the people that do use public transit, they really do rely on it. So,
we need to figure out how to serve everyone. And so, you know, is there a possibility of having a
transit system that actually can attract more riders? I believe so.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But it also relies on people making that shift. We need to make sure it’s safe. There is a lot of
people that believe that only people that are homeless ride on public transit. That’s not the case.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Though there are some. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t. There definitely are. But
how do we make it more meaningful and easier for people to use it? So, we do need a balanced
transportation system like I said. And that’s not punishing car drivers and trying to force them
out of their cars. It’s not going to happen. Many people, especially people I think with kids,
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really rely on that, you know, getting their kids where they need to go. And I, you know, my
kids—I have, well, I’ll just give you an example. I had a soccer player and she played
competitive soccer, my daughter. And then my son was a surfer. And so, two very, very
different, you know, life sorts of things that they like to do.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, for me, I was always driving. I was always driving, you know, a big SUV because
usually I was like “Hey, you know what? I’ll pick up your kids too.” So, you know, for practices
and all of that for my daughter, I did a lot of carpooling. With my son, not so much because he
wanted to go, you know, when he wanted to go. So, you know, I’d go and try to run errands
while he was at the beach. And then I’d go back and pick him up. So, you know, a lot of
different lifestyles have different needs. And, you know, so that’s one of the things that I always
try to mention when I’m on that SANDAG committee. I’m on the Board of Directors as Mayor.
And I try to say, “Remember. Let’s not forget about, you know, the parents. Let’s not forget
about our retirees. We really do need a transportation program that fits everyone’s needs.” And it
is tricky. But I think it can be done. But our new regional plan, I think that it really does punish
car drivers in a lot of ways. And we really need to bring more transit, in my opinion, up to North
County. And what I’ve been talking about for quite some time, and it actually will be rolling out
pretty soon, is having micro-transit within cities because that is a way for you to actually get
where you need to go within the city. It’s not going to take you to work or anything like that.
But, you know, on your short trips, you know, getting for instance our kids to school because the
school district has very little busing. They are starting to bring some of it back.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But that really is only for the elementary kids. So, you know, the older kids, the middleschoolers, the high schoolers, how do you get them to school in a meaningful way? And I think
micro-transit is a way to do that. But it’s also a way for people like if you want to go out and
have dinner, have that glass of wine. You don’t have to drink and drive! You don’t have to call
an Uber. If you’ve got a system that actually is on demand, it will meet those needs. And I think
it would serve our community better. So, I think having more conversations about, you know,
different aspects of a transportation plan that fits really the needs of the community like microtransit and then also autonomous vehicles. They are the future more than I think fixed rail or
fixed routes on buses. I think it really does lend better to peoples’ lifestyles. So, you know,
keeping that in mind, that’s what we do at SANDAG. But then also at North County Transit. It’s
all about the same things that I just mentioned about transit. But, you know, working with other
cities it happens a lot. We also have something on the 78 corridor that is something that not the
rest of the nation has. I think it’s one of a kind. And it is that cities work together. And so,
Innovate 78 (multi-city partnership supporting business ecosystem along the Highway 78
corridor) started. And it was really about attracting business to the region. I call us the “upside”
of San Diego because we’re North County.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: We’re very close to Riverside and to Orange County. And, you know, we really have a
different bit of lifestyle. A lot of people that really enjoy the urban living don’t really enjoy it as
much in North County. But we also, you know, we have a lot of space for jobs and, you know,
we also have a lot of homes. And so, a lot of people, you know, North County is a little more
affordable. As you get east of the 5, it, you know, gets a little more affordable. East of the 15 is a
little more affordable. But, you know, also trying to figure out how to balance, again, the
transportation, getting people to work, and all of that is a consideration. But, you know, when
you have large cities like Carlsbad where they have a lot of jobs, where are those people going to
live? Well, a lot of them do live in San Marcos, for instance, or Vista.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, you know, Innovate 78 was all about trying to figure out how to attract businesses. If
the city of Vista has a business or the city of San Marcos has a business within our city, we can’t
find the proper amount of land for them because they want to grow. We work together and our
Economic Development Directors work together to figure out where can we move them to stay
in North County, so they don’t have to disrupt their workforce, so they don’t have to disrupt their
lifestyles. How can we work together to make that happen? And it has been very successful. I’m
very proud of the work that we’ve done. And, you know, it has been recognized that we have
done some really good work together.
SV: Yeah. So, is Innovate 78 like a—is it a formalized structure? Do you have meetings that
happen on a regular basis? Or is it more of a—I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to ask you
here.
RJ: I know what you’re trying to—So, we don’t have—Okay. So, there are quarterly meetings
where it’s the mayors, generally, but not always, and council members. So, they kind of cycle in.
And then they’re hosted in all the different cities. That’s a quarterly thing. But our Economic
Development Directors and staff work actually—they do have monthly meetings. So, they do
work together on a very, very regular basis. And, you know, that, again—You know, we’re
policy makers.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, it’s not imperative that we are there all the time, you know, at a monthly meeting or
something like that. It is when it comes to transportation like SANDAG but not with Innovate
78. And again, you know, there’s a lot of work that has gotten done where, you know, businesses
rather than them, you know, locate elsewhere like another county or something like that or, you
know, maybe in South County, we’ve been able to keep and retain them here in North County
which is a good thing.
SV: Yeah. That is a good thing.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: You talked about micro-transit. I just wanted to clarify what that is in case it becomes
available.
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RJ: Oh, micro-transit is like a small shuttle sort of bus.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Not a big full-sized bus but more of a smaller bus. And it would be—and what North County
transit is going to be—Have you ever seen the Carlsbad Connector?
SV: I haven’t.
RJ: Okay. Well, it’s kind of a, it’s a smaller bus and it would be on demand. That will be rolling
out in San Marcos.
SV: Okay.
RJ: Through North County Transit.
SV: Okay. When will that roll out?
RJ: Actually, sometime probably fall or early next year.
SV: Very cool!
RJ: Yeah.
SV: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey into politics.
RJ: Oh my gosh! Yes. Everyone says, “What made you—
SV: Yeah!
RJ: “—want to be in politics?” Well, I could tell you this much. I never did. (laughs) It’s one of
those things that I just kind of fell into. And so, what ended up happening is I was a young mom,
and really, I didn’t even know how local government worked. I didn’t know what city
government handled. I didn’t know anything about anything. And there was a public notice in
the park next to my home. And, you know, I had a baby at home and a four-year-old. And I was
like “What’s going on? What is happening?” you know. And some of my neighbors were saying
“Oh, we don’t want this in our park.” And I said, “Well, what’s even going on?” And then, as I
started delving into it and I got more information and I actually figured out what was going on, I
went “Yeah. I don’t like that for the park either. I’m not in love with that.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, it really was being involved. I sat down with all of the council members at the time
and I had two council members, a Republican and a Democrat, say to me, “Rebecca, you should
get involved in politics.” And I said, “I have you. Why would I do that?” And they said, “Well,
we’re definitely not going to be doing it forever.” I think both of them were probably right
around 20-25 or 24 years, you know, being involved in the city. And I was like “Why? Why
won’t you do this forever?” And they said, “Well, you know, it’s a big job. However, when you
really want to help shape the community, it’s a good thing.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: And so, I had both of them, you know, talk me into it. First they kind of “voluntold” me. And
I actually first joined the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, originally. And I thought that
was really interesting because I learned a lot about land use, a lot about, you know, just creating
spaces where people could come and, you know, congregate, and really making a community a
place where people can, you know, meet up with their friends and, you know, have those
restaurants and those spaces that are, you know, beautiful and, you know, signature to the
community, very unique. And I really liked that. And so, I was like “Okay. Well, I do like this.”
And I have to tell you, my background is that I was a new home sales agent when I was in my
early twenties.
SV Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then, my ex and I started a furniture marketing company which became very successful.
We had customers. We started out with zero sales. We actually built that into a $100 million
dollars a year in sales with Walmart, Costco, BestBuy as some of our customers. So, it was a
pretty lucrative business.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But, you know, it was really hard. And I remember when he came home one day from work,
he said, “You know, we’re going to start our own business.” And I went “We??” And, you know,
at that time we only had one child and he was one. And he said, “Yes. You’re going to do all of
the business part of it. And I’m just going to do the sales.” And I went “Oh. Okay.” And I go
“You know, I don’t know how to work a computer.” And he said, “Nah, that’s okay. You’re
smart. You could figure it out.” And that’s, you know, that’s really how it started. And so, I’ve
always been kind of a, you know, very I would say involved person. If someone, you know,
gives me a challenge or a task, I will go all in, and I’ll make sure I’ll do a good job. I’m very
conscientious. And so, that really is how it started. Started out, you know, had that background
of business in my, you know, my marriage and owning it. And then, I just went “Well, you know
what? It’s time for me to give back. It’s time for me to be part of the solution rather than, you
know, trying to stop things that are happening, you know as far as development goes.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, there were a couple of other things. The second Walmart, I didn’t agree with that. I
didn’t think the placement was correct. And then there was the Robertson’s Ready-Mix batch
plant over on Barham. And I said “Yeah. This is negative. I’d rather be positive.” I don’t like
negativity, as you could probably tell. I’m a very positive person.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And you know what? I just knew that it was probably the right thing to do. And so, I ended
up actually applying for an appointment because my ex had gotten sick in 2006. So, I wasn’t able
to run a campaign that year. And I applied for the appointment in 2007. I was selected. And then
I have run five campaigns since then and been elected five times. So, I must be doing something
right.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Always been the top vote getter, even if it was for two seats and, you know, I would say that
no one outworks me. No one immerses themselves more into trying to be involved and prepared.
And so, I think that sets me apart because I really am not a politician. I’m just a person that loves
the community and wants to give back and has found a way that I can do that.
SV: And you said that you applied for the appointment for city council, if I’m understanding
correctly.
RJ: Correct.
SV: So, what is that process like?
RJ: Boy, was that fun. I’m just kidding. (both laugh) So, you filled out an application and then
you talked about your experience and what you wanted to bring to the table. And at that time, it
was an interesting time. So, Jim Desmond had just been elected as mayor. And, you know, it
was—there were four men on the council. Pia Harris-Sebert was our first woman ever elected to
the city council. And she was the first woman, but she was really the only woman for quite a
while. We did have Betty Evans that, I think, served one or two terms in between. But she wasn’t
on there. And so, it was really—there were four men left on the city council. And, you know, Jim
Desmond was talking about diversity back then. And, you know, he said, you know, I like what
Rebecca brings to the table, the business background, which is really important. And I think
everyone should have at least some sort of background as far as how you spend money.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, it’s—you don’t have a ton of money to spend and, you know, really being able to
figure out how to best spend that. You know, when you’re a business owner and especially when
you’re starting out a business, you are pretty much trying to figure out how you’re not going to
starve. And so, that really does bring an interesting perspective, I think, to the table. Anyway,
and so, I was selected. There were 27 applicants. I got up to the podium and one of the council
members actually had a lot of disagreements with me. He was supportive of the second Walmart.
And, you know, he brought that up. He said “Well, you know, Walmart, they’re one of your
customers. They must be very forgiving because you didn’t agree with the second Walmart.”
And I said, “Well, you know, it doesn’t mean that I’m against Walmart. It just meant that I didn’t
think the location was okay.” And those two things—you can still feel both things and believe in
both things. It doesn’t mean that you don’t like Walmart. I mean, there are a lot of people in my
community that love Walmart.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, whether I’m a Walmart shopper or not, a lot of people want to shop there.
And so, you know, I think it’s really important that you have a good mix of businesses. And, you
know, I think I brought that to the table. But I also, you know, brought forward the part of—I
really cared about, you know, being able to represent everyone. And I think I’ve been—It has
been a very valuable voice at that table.
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SV: Mm-hmm. So, there’s not an election process for city council? Or there wasn’t at that time?
RJ: Not for an appointment. No, not for an appointment.
SV: Oh, because Desmond—
RJ: Because I’m in an appointment.
SV: Okay. Gotcha.
RJ: Yeah. So, right now, there is a supervisor seat that is going to be vacated. So, there would be
an opportunity for either an appointment or a special election. At that time, a special election was
gauged to be around $300,000.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: It’s very expensive. If you can come up with an agreement on an appointment, it makes
sense, if you can come to an agreement. But it doesn’t always happen.
SV: Yeah. So—
RJ: And, you know, a lot of people have been appointed and have not been able to get elected.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I think there were people that actually spoke against my appointment that
when they saw what I did in my first two years, before I had my first election, they went “Wow.
Okay.” And they’ve been some of my biggest supporters, to be honest.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, that does actually feel good because people do recognize how hard I work. It
does feel good to have that recognized.
SV: Yeah. So, then you ran for reelection then around 2009 or so?
RJ: 2008—
SV: 2008.
RJ: —then ’12, and then ’16. I was elected as a woman’s—or as a first woman mayor in our
city—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —to ever serve as mayor in 2018. And then, I was reelected last year, in 2022.
SV: So, what does an election look like from your perspective when you’ve decided—let’s take
your first time that you’re going after your appointment when you’re going to be reelected or
elected to the city council?
RJ: Oh, boy. It’s a lot of fun. So, first of all, you know, you need to raise money. So, do people
believe in you? Because they’re not going to definitely, you know, donate to your campaign if
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they don’t believe in you. So, the good thing is I did have a record and I was able to point back to
that. But not only was I able to point back to that, I was able to point back to the success in my
business, how hard I’d worked, and all of those things. And, you know, it’s really important, I
think, that you do connect to the community because at the end of the day you can raise all the
money in the world but if you don’t have the votes, it’s really irrelevant. And so, can you get—
And, you know, every single time—and I’ve run five elections—I’ve thought, “Oh my gosh. I’m
losing. I’m losing!” (throws her head back and laughs) I’ve had, you know, like—I remember
my first campaign. Oh my gosh. I showed up to this one woman’s house. This is really deflating.
And she says to me “Oh, I already voted. And I didn’t vote for you.” (Sean chuckles) And I went
“Oh. Okay.” (chuckles) And then I walked away, and I thought “Shoot! You know, why didn’t
she even give me a chance to tell her about myself.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, so it’s a very humbling experience. And, honestly, I would say equally
humbling is actually serving because really, you know, to have people believe in you and when
they say to you, “You know what? I love what you’re doing in our community” it really does
feel amazing because, again, you know back to your hard work but also, I do love the
community. And I do want it to be the best that it possibly can be. And so having that part
acknowledged is really important to me too. But, again, very humbling. And, you know, so every
single campaign I’m like “Okay. Well, if I just go by what people are saying at the doors, I’m
winning! Like I’m winning!” And then I’m like “That could not be how it is. They could just be
saying that to me.” And so, you know, it really is a hard thing. And not everyone can put
themselves out there. It’s nerve wracking. On that election night, you’re going “Okay. Waiting
for the first numbers to come up. What’s it going to be?” And, you know, I have to say my fifth
election, you know this last one, it was very ugly. It was very unfair because I was, you know—it
was a smear campaign, honestly, on my integrity and what I had done for all these years and
trying to paint me into a box. I don’t fit into a box. I’m going to be totally honest about that. I
don’t fit into a box. I’m not a politician, don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a civic leader
and someone that will read everything and make good decisions for the best of everyone. And,
you know, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That part is kind of hard in elected office.
But if you’re making most people happy and you’ve got a safe community, a thriving
community, at the end of the day that’s all you can really hope for and, you know, again making
most people happy but there are going to be some people that don’t like you. I’ve had people
actually comment about what I look like which is very insulting.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: What I look like has nothing to do with the kind of job that I do. And, you know, trying to
call me little nicknames and that sort of thing, I’m not a robot. I am a person so it does hurt a bit.
But, you know, at the end of the day I do remember, you know, some people aren’t going to like
me. That’s okay. I just know, at the end of the day really, if I go to bed and I know that I’ve done
a good job that day, I wake up the next day and it’s a new day and, you know, I can let things go
which it does take that in this job. You do have to let a lot of things go. You know, the personal
insults really don’t matter, I guess, at the end. But, you know, I’m not a robot so it does affect me
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a bit. And, you know, you do have to really remember just to stay true to yourself. And I really
am very proud that I have done that.
SV: Yeah. What is your process for self-care when you’re having a negative day or a stressful
time?
RJ: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I have to get to the gym. I mean, I’m just one of those people, if
I don’t get enough exercise I will literally overthink things. And so, for me, I’m really getting to
the gym. And my gym! Oh, gosh. So, during COVID(-19 Pandemic), closed down in San
Marcos. And I was like “Okay. I’m going to go to another one of them.” It was in Encinitas. But
I really am very specific because it’s not a super long workout and I can do it whenever, you
know, pretty much during, you know, business hours. But I like to be able to go and punch bags
(laughs) and kick bags. It’s a kickbox workout. So, I’m not like punching someone. I don’t want
to do that. But I do, you know—it’s a kickbox workout. So, now, I found another one. It’s in
Rancho Bernardo. So, it’s not in the city which can be kind of beneficial because, you know, I’m
not sweaty and looking like a mess. And then, you know, if I’m like I’m punching and I’m
having an especially frustrating day, I can do that. The other thing I really love to do is hike. I
admittedly have not hiked in a very long time. I actually, a few years ago, hiked in the Tetons.
So, I had to do a lot of training for that. So, I was out on the trails two and three times a week
which it’s actually better for me when I can find that time. The job is very, you know, —it does
entail a lot of time for me. So, it is tough for me to actually do that during the day. And, you
know, when we have rainy weather, that doesn’t help. Or weather that’s too hot, that doesn’t
help. So, you know, really trying to find the time to at least do that. And then I love to cook. So,
during the pandemic, I started cooking for a few elderly people. And so, I have some folks that I
cook for. And when I need a mental health moment, I just go in my kitchen and I just cook up a
storm and several meals and I mean soups and I just try lots of different, new recipes and find
things that I can tweak and make my own.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But those are the things that I do. I do try to do that. I don’t get massages. I really need a
massage many times though. I don’t really take the time to do that. So, really, the biggest thing is
exercise and then getting that cooking in. You know, and then everyone benefits from it.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Because I’m actually not a bad cook, so— (chuckles)
SV: So, what’s your best dish?
RJ: Oh, gosh. Well, that has evolved. I don’t know. I’ve become quite the soup maker. But I do
have my tried and true. I’m really good at prime rib and au gratin potatoes. My kids are always
like “Mom” —and, you know, they’re older. They’re twenty. Actually my daughter will be 23 in
a few weeks, and my son just turned 27. You know, whenever they, you know, want a good
meal, they’re like “Mom. Could you make this? Or can you make that?” and then I made chicken
fingers for the first time ever. And they’re like “Mom. These are like the best I’ve ever had.” So,
anyway, I’m like “Well, I could teach you how to do it.” And so, you know, I’ve had them over a
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couple of times and, you know, teaching people to cook, honestly is—You know, there are a lot
of people that don’t cook in this world, and I think, you know, the less we eat processed food, the
better it is for us. And so, I like to, you know—I cook almost solely organic. I try not to eat
heavily processed food. I think it’s better for me. You know, I’m going to be 56 next year—Oh,
oh my gosh. Not next year. This year! Oh, gosh! In a few weeks. Oh, gosh, about a month. So,
yeah. I’ll be 56. You know, I think our bodies can actually be healthier and mentally better when
we’re, you know, putting the right food in them and then also getting exercise too. So, I try to
definitely do all that to take care of myself. I know that’s a long story but those are the things
that I do. (chuckles)
SV: Yeah. Well, thank you for answering. And I asked the food question because I used to be a
chef. So, I’m always interested to know about people’s experiences.
RJ: Oh, wow! Nice. Nice.
SV: And then exercise, I agree. I mean, it’s so important. I think to bring it back to our interview,
you know, something that I take advantage of is the bike lanes.
RJ: Oh, yeah.
SV: And I was curious as to what your—You know, you’ve talked about transit. You’ve talked
about micro-transit and, you know, what your priorities are in terms of pedestrian and twowheeled transit as well.
RJ: Yeah. Thanks for asking that. So, actually, at SANDAG, this is kind of interesting, I had
actually voted against spending $140, I think it was $140 million dollars on bike lanes. And I had
one of our residents send me a message. And he said, “You’re the worst mayor ever!” And I was
like “Oh. Wow.” And he said, “I can’t believe how you don’t like cyclists.” And I said, “Well,
that’s not exactly how that went.” And so, I explained, you know, that there’s no reason that bike
lanes should be costing $5 million dollars a mile.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: That’s way too expensive. There’s no way that should be happening on a road that is literally
already there. So, I said, you know, I had an issue with that. I have a real problem spending
money in a wasteful way. And, you know, so I said, “Hey, let’s meet.” I sat down with him. He’s
now a fan and definitely not, you know, against me any longer because he didn’t really know all
of the reasons that I felt the way that I felt. I think getting input from cyclists is really important.
You know, again, back to the point that we have 72 miles of, you know, trails. Those are often
times, you know, available for cyclists and, you know, pedestrians, hikers, even horses because
we still have horses in San Marcos.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, I am really proud about that. The one thing that, you know, I’ve done a lot of research on
the different types of bike lanes, and I’m not sold on the cycle tracks. A lot of times the very
serious cyclists are saying to me, “Rebecca, they’re very dangerous because you are confined in
a space.” They look safe. Maybe for kids they’re safe. But they’re very expensive, first of all.
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And they really are not super safe because if you hit that curb for whatever reason, you could be
thrown off of your bicycle and end up in the middle of a lane. That’s not very safe. Or there is a
lot of crashes if you’ve got like—you know, most cyclists are in packs. Hardly anyone goes by
themselves. I have a lot of friends that are very serious cyclists that, since this whole thing came
forward, I’ve actually just from my friend group—and I do have some serious cyclists now in it.
And they don’t really like those tracks. So, in my opinion, any time that we can have a sharrow,
which is the bike lane that is a full lane with cyclists in it and then a car only lane, I think that’s
probably a really good idea. Any time we can have a split because you’re not limited on space or
real estate and have, you know, a separate bike lane that’s by itself but without all of the little
candlesticks and the curbs and all that, I think that’s a good idea. It’s not always possible because
a lot of times you’re putting them in after the fact. I would like to see more education. I am
concerned that some people get really upset with cyclists. And some cyclists—I have to tell you.
I actually had a property down at the beach, a second property, with my ex and, you know, every
time I would go to back out of the driveway cyclists would come and they would like not pay
attention to me. And I would go “Well, they’re not the only one on the road.” And then I would
see them running stoplights and stop signs. And that actually upsets motorists. I hear people say
it all the time. And I go, “I get where you’re coming from. However…” You know, I try to
defend cyclists. But, you know, if we all ran by the same rules or all, you know, followed the
same rules, that would actually be optimum. You’re probably never going to see that, you know.
There are always people that are going to break rules. It’s just how it is. And they shouldn’t spoil
it for everyone. And so, you know, I have to say I am very, very careful around cyclists, and I
really wish everyone was because the truth is a cyclist is never going to win against your car.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It, you know—And, you know, as soon as, you know, you hear of, you know, a cyclist
getting hit by a car and they’re like “Oh, it’s obviously the car’s fault.” Sometimes it isn’t. I
mean, really sometimes it isn’t. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I do think we
need to, again, create the opportunities, education and, you know, let’s just get into eBikes for
one second. The kids should not be on the eBikes that are above their ability. It is a moving
vehicle. It is like being on a moped or a motorcycle. I am—oftentimes, I see the kids, you know,
going wayward and crazy on them. And you know what? It’s a recipe for disaster. And then, you
know what? There are accidents that happen. And, you know, it shouldn’t be all on the driver.
The cyclists, you know, including the eBikes really need to be responsible. I really would love to
see more education in that.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: I have brought that up numerous times. I think the school district really should take a lead in
this. I know our deputies at our Sheriff’s station do it as well. But, you know, a lot of kids are
riding them to school. And it’s very dangerous. Parents, pay attention! (laughs)
SV: Yep.
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RJ: They just think, “Oh, it’s just a bicycle.” It’s really not. And it really is very dangerous and,
you know, we can’t parent the kids. That’s not our job. The parents need to parent their kids and
they need to teach them how to be responsible with their bicycles, their eBikes especially.
SV: Yeah. eBikes are a new wrinkle to resolve, I think, in the whole transit conversation.
RJ: They are. And scary! It really is scary but, you know, very beneficial because they can take
you longer and, you know, longer distances quicker. And you don’t have to be in super good
shape to use them. But if you’re not responsible with them, they’re very, very dangerous.
SV: Yeah. They’re good for the hills around here too.
RJ: Yeah. For sure. I know. Someone said “Oh, yeah, just, you know, ride your bicycle around
town.” And I’m like “Yeah. That’s—” We’re very hilly in San Marcos.
SV: Yep. (both laugh) All right. So, we talked a little bit about your campaign, that first
campaign, in 2008. I guess I wanted to circle back a little bit to even before that, to the San
Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force that you served on from 2005-2007.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: And I was just curious as to what was the goal of the Task Force?
RJ: It was to come up with a plan of mixed use and utilizing that entire area which, by the way,
you know, we’ve been updating our general plan. We’ve put that on hold for now and we’re
going to have a greater emphasis on bringing the Creek District part into that because we do need
to update that plan. So, FEMA has updated the flood plain and all of those, you know, different
areas are going to be changed due to in a 100-year flood, what happens? You know, if we get the
torrential sort of rain that we had, you know, recently, another time or worse than that, oh my
gosh. It makes a big difference. We have—excuse me (hiccups) —we haven’t had a situation
where it’s flooded all the way from Escondido. But it could very well happen. And so, you
know, being prepared is important. You’re not going to build a bunch of buildings in the flood
way. It just isn’t going to happen. Currently, there is, you know, the Valley Christian School
that’s over there. It’s in the flood way. So, they can’t, you know, change their buildings or
anything like that. The reason I bring that up is that’s kind of like the edge of the Creek District
area and then it goes all the way over behind Grand, or right around Grand. And there’s actually
affordable housing that’s right in that area. So, what we did is we approved a plan for that. And
then we also started getting the permits from the agencies so we could build the infrastructure.
The infrastructure will be done this year. That’s a big first step in actually moving that forward.
But, then again, you know we still need to incorporate the part of the land use changes are going
to happen. We also have had people like Gary London come in and say “You’ve got too much
commercial to the residential. You’re going to need to make some tweaks.” So, it likely will not
build as dense as we had originally approved. So, we really do need to update it and bring in
those changes, you know, bringing in the flood plain. And then also the fact that the
infrastructure is actually done also changes things too.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: So, the emphasis will be on getting that updated as well as the general plan.
SV: Okay. So, the original goal then with the Task Force and into when you served on it then
was to create the plan that is now kind of being put into effect.
RJ: Yes, exactly.
SV: And did it account for a Creek District at that time? Because the Creek District is going to
be like a public/private partnership that will help with development.
RJ: Well, there was 62 property owners in there today.
SV: Okay.
RJ: You know, when we approved that, yeah. It was to bring an it, a place, a place where people
could come—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —congregate, as I had mentioned earlier, and really, you know, a space where it would be,
you know, open. And, you know, you could have, you know, different community events there
and that sort of thing. Also, North City is that way. North City we actually approved as a
university district back in 2009. We always thought the Creek would come first. Well, University
District has now really become. And again, you know, we don’t even have an actual downtown
in San Marcos.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, you know, creating a downtown, creating that space. It looks like North City is becoming
that. You know, we’ve got the Belgian Waffle Ride coming this weekend. It’s the largest cycling
event in the western United States. It’s a big deal. Thousands of cyclists are coming from all
over. They’re going to be eating in our city. They’re going to be staying here. We don’t have a
ton of hotels. There are going to be a couple of other ones in North City and then also in the
Creek District eventually. But really creating that downtown was one of the things that we really
wanted to do. But we always saw North City—a university district back then when we approved
it—and then the creek, because they connect.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Having that as a center core for the city.
SV: When do you think North City will be built out?
RJ: Oof. Well, that depends on so many different things. If I had a crystal ball, I could answer
that.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, they’ve been (sighs), they’ve been through a downturn in the economy. They’ve
been through a pandemic. You know, they’ve been through a lot. If you go there today, you
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know, they’ve got several restaurants. They’ve got the only, first of its kind, building with the
university which is the Extended Learning Building because there’s nothing like that in all of
California. And then you’ve got like Mesa Rim. You’ve got Draft Republic which was the old
Urge Gastropub. You have Newtopia Cyder, Fresh Café, Maya’s Cookies, Wynston’s Ice Cream,
Copa Vida, Buona Forcbetta, Umami, a lot of things happening there but, you know, not the
residences. You have a little bit of residence there. You’ve got the quad, which is university, you
know, kids that live there. And then you have Block C. And then you have the block that’s The
Wrap behind. And then also, you know, don’t forget too Pima Medical is right there. And then,
you know, you’ve got medical offices now, Scripps Health. And so, a lot of things are
happening. It really is on the edge of becoming something much bigger. They have broken
ground on and they’re moving forward with the first large-scale residential in there. And it’s
going to be about 12 stories high. And so that will really be a game changer, I think, for North
City. I think that will be what brings the really the grocery store and the other businesses that
they need that can actually handle those residents and offer the services that they need. And, you
know, that’s always what the Creek was envisioned. I mean these are things that I learned when
we were, you know, going on these field trips to old Pasadena and, you know, all these different
places that were mixed use because we didn’t really have much mixed use at that time in the city.
We have a little bit over off of Mission but it’s very, very small scale. You know, having the
meeting spaces, having the, you know, congregation spaces where you can have like an open-air
amphitheater, something like that, that’s all things that really we started with the planning of the
Creek District. Again, you know, we have to update that. But really—And it, you know, kind of
grew into also North City being part of that, being a large scale downtown core area for us.
SV: Yeah. There is a lot of construction going on right now.
RJ: Yes. There is.
SV: You have the infrastructure going on along the Creek District. You have it seems like three
or four different projects right around North City and in North City.
RJ: Yeah. So, you know, okay. So, back when I was selling new homes in my early twenties, I
was working at Discovery Creek, Discovery Trail, so Discovery Hills. And back then we had,
you know, this big map that showed everything that was going to happen in the, you know, the
adjoining property. Back then, Craven (Road) wasn’t even there. I mean this—just to date myself
of how long I’ve been around in San Marcos. First moved here in 1987. Just looking at, you
know, what it was going to be with Kaiser Hospital, Scripps Hospital which isn’t going to
happen now. But they are going to have medical offices, much like Carmel Mount Ranch.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, pretty large-scale medical offices. You know, unfortunately, you know medical is always
something that we need. And, you know, fortunately though we’ve got some space to put that.
You know, we don’t want people to have to go all the way down to Carmel Mount Ranch to go
to a doctor. And, you know, currently Kaiser Permanente doesn’t have a hospital. The nearest
one is Mira Mesa. So, 180,000 subscribers in North County have to go all the way there for a
hospital. So, it’s going to be opening up in August I’m told. They’ve got a ribbon cutting all
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scheduled. And the Creek project, the infrastructure, it’s about $112 million to start. That is our
largest capital improvement project we’ve ever had. We broke ground on that on my one-year
anniversary of taking office as Mayor, which is exciting being that, you know, I’d only been
talking about it for 10-12 years (laughs) before that. And, you know, before me many other
councils had talked about it. You know, this year is our 60th anniversary or birthday, and our
sister city Vista, it’s their birthday as well. We were incorporated on January 28, 1963. And so,
here we are. We’re in our birthday year, opening up our largest capital improvement project,
opening up our hospital. I mean, a lot is happening. There’s also an extension of Discovery
(Road) which is about $40 million as well, 30-40 million. That is going from Craven (Road) all
the way through to Twin Oaks (Valley Road). That’s a big deal too, getting that done. But, you
know, we’re trying to move people around in a meaningful way. That will be one of our first
corridors that has intuitive lighting, stop lights that will help people get through. But one of the
things that I’ve really focused on that I want to get done is to make sure that we’re getting the
traffic flow better. Traffic, it does feel like it’s at its worst. That’s one of the things that my
opponent (Randy Walton) was using against me during the campaign. I’m like “Well, we’ve got
all this road construction. Sure as heck, we’re going to have terrible traffic right now.” But when
it’s done, I believe it will be a significant improvement. You know, getting the flooding to stop
so you no longer have that. Being able to have two lanes over Via Veracruz is a big deal. And I
remember originally when we were talking about, you know, the Bent Crossing. We talked about
a—to save money, well, what if we did an Arizona Crossing (culvert crossing), which I don’t
know if you’re familiar with that.
SV: I’m not.
RJ: It would still flood!
SV: Okay.
RJ: And I said “No. No. No. Let’s, let’s not do that.” So, we were able to apply for federal funds.
And so, a lot of it is grant funded but a lot of money also comes from San Marcos residents. So
again, you know, back to wanting to spend their money wisely. Helping move them around the
city is really important. We appreciate everyone being so patient—not always patient. But, you
know, it has been a tough, tough project because we’ve had unprecedented rain this year, of
course. Of course, it had to happen! Just when we weren’t expecting it to happen. But, you know,
it would have been a heck of a lot worse had we not had the bridge at Bent opened. I think that
could have been actually dangerous for our residents if we had not gotten so far ahead on that.
But that will be done probably about a July timeframe. So, the infrastructure will be done. The
hospital will come right after that in August. I would say it’s a good year, a good year that we’re
getting a lot done, you know, the hospital done and everything, just a lot of good things for our
residents. And again, you know, the jobs that we’re providing too, that’s a thousand jobs at
Kaiser Permanente. So, those are some really good high-paying jobs. I think that’s a huge win.
I’m really proud of that. You know, when I first got the call from their west coast person, he said
to me “Are you still interested in the hospital?” And I was like “Where do I sign up?” (laughs)
Because, yes! Of course, I’m still interested. Anything we can do to help make that happen, you
know. And, you know, also having the university have, you know, the nursing program has been
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really important. And then, you know, also over at Palomar because, you know, these are also
the ability to teach, you know, hands on is a big deal. And, you know, we’re becoming a
healthcare hub, now, of North County which is great, you know, with the hospital opening up
and then Scripps are moving forward with their big medical offices. It’s, you know, again it’s sad
that people are not healthy, however good that they have the ability to get those healthcare
options close to home.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And the good jobs, of course.
SV: Yes.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: Yeah. Definitely.
RJ: In fact, my niece actually just got her nurse’s license. So, very exciting.
SV: Congratulations to your niece.
RJ: Yes, very exciting.
SV: I wanted to circle back a little bit to 2018 and just ask you why did you decide to run for
mayor then?
RJ: Oosh, well, I decided well before 2018. I actually decided when I was getting elected in 2016
as mayor. I talked to my husband at the time and, you know, ’18 was a tough year, I have to tell
you. I was finishing up my divorce. He told me he didn’t want to be married anymore in 2017.
So, I was in the middle of a divorce. I had to sell the property, buy a property. I moved 10 days
after the election. A lot of people don’t know how hard that was. It was really tough. But, you
know, what I knew that, again, you know being apolitical, really pretty apolitical, was an
important thing for our future. I think also, you know, having these large-scale things coming up.
I wanted to see them through. And, you know, I have to tell you, looking back and seeing all that
we have been able to accomplish during my time on the council, I’m so proud. I know that when
I’m ready to retire, I can look back and be very proud of what I’ve been able to accomplish with
very, you know, diverse group of people. We now have three women, by the way, on the city
council which is great. But, you know, again, you know, for 2018 having the first mayor that’s a
female, that’s pretty surprising. You know, as progressive as the city is and, you know, how
entrepreneurial we’ve really been, I always thought it would be Pia Harris Ebert, which she has
been a wonderful mentor to me. I can’t express enough how much I value her leadership, all of
her 24 years on the city council. But, you know, when she told me she was retiring, I said,
“What?? You can’t go!” and she said, “You know what? I can look back and I can be very
proud.” I mean we used to be known for our chicken ranch and then our dairy. And that was it!
We were known as a chicken ranch and dairy city, not for higher learning education, being a
great place to run a family, a great school district. We were never known for that. We were
known for other things. So, I really am proud of how we’ve elevated who we’ve become, the city
that we are, and all that we have accomplished. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, the
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things needed to be seen through and now, you know, I’m on my second term as mayor just, you
know, getting reelected last year. I am very happy. I’m very happy. But I’m also, you know, as
concerned about, you know, creating opportunity for a new team to come in that is like-minded,
focusing on us being a safe city, focusing on us being an entrepreneurial city, also making sure
that we are serving our community and providing awesome trails and parks and all of that. And it
becomes very challenging when you’re an infill city, and as built out as we are. So, you know,
it’s got to be, you know, trying to find good people that want to come after me. And that’s, you
know, what both Pia Harris Ebert and Hal Martin did.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And I appreciate that. And I take that responsibility very seriously as well. So, that’s what
I’m going to be doing the next three years, three and a half years. And then, you know, making
sure that we stay focused. And we’re going to have some tough financial times. You know,
it’s—business has not come back the way that we’ve all hoped. And so, you know, we hear of
layoffs all the time. You know, General Atomics, I think they laid off 400 people last week.
That’s a lot! So, having those challenges you really do need to have a good team in there. But,
you know, I’m trying to bring other people forward because that’s a big part of, you know, a
succession plan. It’s really important.
SV: Yeah. You mentioned businesses haven’t come back. Were you referring to from the
(COVID-19) pandemic?
RJ: Correct. Yes.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Just not in the way—you know, we do have a lot of businesses that have opened. But, you
know, we also lost some. I mean, San Marcos Brewery, I still am sad about that, you know, a
long-time business in our city, gone. Couldn’t keep their doors open with the open and closing
and all of that. There are a lot of stories like that, unfortunately. And so, you know, being able to
support the business community, I work a lot at that. I mean if I—I try to do everything I
possibly can to support our businesses. And, you know, it’s not like one business. It’s thousands,
you know. We’ve got like four tho—let me think here—four thousand businesses here in the
city. It’s a lot!
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It’s a lot. It’s actually upwards of four thousand. And, you know, many of those are store
fronts and they’re very small and, you know, they’re family owned. And, you know, I love that. I
love that they’re thriving. I love that they’re doing well. I was actually just at a business opening
a couple of weeks ago. The father-in-law of this young woman that just opened a brand-new
business, he is a long-time business owner in San Marcos, twenty—I think twenty-six years he’s
been in business. So, you know, seeing those generations, you know, staying in the city, opening
up new businesses. I love that. But, you know, they’re going to need our help. And, you know,
they need us to congregate and go to their businesses and, you know, spend our money here
locally. And I try to always, you know, emphasize that. You know, during the pandemic, I
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tirelessly spent so much time on, you know, media just hey talking about all of our great
businesses, and what about this and what about that and you know they need us now. But they
need us still now. It’s not going to end. And, you know, a lot of them are really struggling. So, as
costs go up, people eat out less. They spend less of their money. And so, we’ve got to remember
that, when you can, try to spend it locally, whenever possible.
SV: Yeah. I imagine a lot of governance is trying to minimize the bad impacts of change, you
know, unforeseen or foreseen. And you talked a little bit about the pandemic. I was curious as to,
you know, what you could do to lessen the burden on folks during that time and what you all did
do.
RJ: Gosh. Wow, we did a lot actually. We were the first city that—you know, we have always
had very good reserves.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, that’s something that is because we’ve been very fiscally responsible. That
money is for rainy days. And when the pandemic came, that was a rainy day.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It really was. And so, we set aside $3 million. We were the first city, I believe. The only
other city that may have actually beat us was the city of San Diego. But I think they set aside like
$5 million. We set aside $3 million. They’ve got a population of 1.3 million.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: We have a population of under 100. So, I think we really outshined them in that. And I’m
really proud that we did that. And that is, you know, that’s being very, very pro-business. I’ve
always been pro-business, you know, being that I owned my own business and I know how hard
it was. I thought that was something that we should do. And I wholeheartedly believe it’s the
right thing to do for our community. But, anyway, so we did that. And we had business loans.
So, it was small business loans up to $50,000, depending on your circumstances. We hired an
outside company to do all the credit checks. And just, you know, you couldn’t be late prior to
Covid. You know, you had to meet a few guidelines. But we were very intentional about trying
to get that money out fast, as fast as possible.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: The federal government didn’t have any money out. And we had already saved a lot of
businesses. Then the other thing that we did is we were the first city that had our businesses, as
soon as the governor—I remember watching the press conference. And Governor Newsom said,
when he was talking about some of the businesses could no longer be operating inside, but he
didn’t say outside! I was on the phone to our economic development director, and I said, “I’m
thinking we can have outside businesses. What can we do to make this as quick as possible.”
And we had people moving their businesses. And it was a lot of services, like haircutting and all
of that. And then there was another issue about that because—and, you know, restaurants and
everything. But there was another issue with that because they didn’t have their business
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licenses. So, we were actually fighting to open up. And, you know, I mean, again, tirelessly, the
letters that I sent to the governor. I mean, I was on full blown action I felt like the whole time,
which is very exhausting.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: But it was like okay, let’s get those businesses moved outside as soon as they can. And we
had businesses and we’re like “Don’t worry about your permit. We’re going to check, make sure
that you are following it. Just follow these guidelines and we’ll come and check on you.” We had
businesses out there before any other. And we didn’t charge anyone a fee. There were a lot of
cities that were out there charging them a fee. We’re like no. We need our businesses to stay in
place. We need to support them, and we can’t just say that we’re supporting them. We actually
have to do it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, I am really proud that we did that. And, you know again, we didn’t close all of our
trails. We were not very out in public, you know, screaming it from the rooftops that we’re open
because we didn’t want our city residents to feel crowded because all of the other residents from
the other cities were coming, though some people knew about them. It was just—it was
important for us to do everything we could to support the community. So, fast forward to when
we received our federal funds, we were actually able to take all of those loans and make them
grants so they didn’t have to be paid back. That was huge.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: The other thing that we did is we set aside some of our ARPA (American Rescue Plan Act)
funds to help our non-profits.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Because they were really hurting at that time too. And I am so proud of all of the things that
we did during the pandemic because it was us being innovative, us cutting through the red tape,
and us working hard to support our businesses and our community and our non-profits. Because
our non-profits support our residents, right? And then the other thing that we also did is—and it’s
not our responsibility, though we recognized that our community, our youth were doing very
poorly. You know, I’ve been involved with the Boys and Girls Club for many years. And one of
the things that they—I was having a conversation with them—one of the things that they were
saying is that many of the kids that are at risk were not checking in. And so, you know, you’ve
got parents that are very frustrated. The kids are at risk of being abused or neglected. And you’ve
got this ultra tough situation happening. So, the mental health of our community, you know,
we’ve really tried to focus on that too. And so, one of the things that we did for our youth in the
community is we partnered with the school district, and we are equally funding the mental health
program that they have rolled out to help the kids bounce back and figure out. You know, a lot of
them are so confused. A lot of them have learning deficits. They don’t know how to articulate
that, their frustration, their fear and, you know, just getting sick. You know, a lot of them are
terrified of getting sick. And, you know, what is life going to be? It’s very different.
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SV: Yeah.
RJ: You know, back to the whole pivot—I mean, I know pivot is kind of overused during the
pandemic, but it’s a real thing. And so, for us as a city, you know, we made an intentional effort
to do what we could to also help the kids. And, you know again, I think I told you this a little bit
earlier, you know, I had people—I felt like a counselor many times during the pandemic. I had
some of our folks calling me up and sending me messages and saying, you know, “I’m scared.”
And so, I would check in on people and let them know, “Hey. You know what? You’re seen.
You’re heard. We care about you.” So, you know, mayor’s job is not just all legislation. You
know, there’s a lot of parts to it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I think something that a lot of people think is really, it’s just all about rules
and regulations. That’s all your job is. Well, I think as a mayor especially, and a councilmember
to some degree, but I think as a mayor I’m the figurehead pretty much for the city council. A lot
of people know who the mayor is, and they might not know who their councilperson is. For me
to be the face of our city, out there letting people know that we care about them and letting them
know that it’s not all about rules and regulations. We actually had a young man that was
murdered within our community by one of his friends. He was in his early 20s. And, you know,
we renamed a trail after him, actually the Gratitude Trail in his memory, right there around
Discovery Lake because us doing things to help our community heal in tough times, in tragic
times, is really important. And I really do think that that’s a part of government that sometimes
people are like “Well, I’m a politician. I don’t have to do that.” Yeah, you don’t have to do it.
But I think doing it is important because, again, you know, how—you know, during the
pandemic, people needed to know we care about you.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: We care about your businesses. We’re all in with you. We’re going to do everything we can
to keep you open and do it safely, of course. But, you know, when it was all the big businesses
could stay open and then the small businesses were closed. They couldn’t adapt to that!
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Many of them went out of business. And, you know, so we had to make it so that it’s easy for
every small business to get a fair shake, to be treated like a large business, you know, while also
following the health order. So, it was a real tough time. And, again you know, back to grief.
You’ve got to deal with grief too within a community and figure out how to move people
forward. And, you know, one of the things that I think is always important is, even if you’re
taking baby steps moving forward, you’ve got to move forward. Whatever that looks like. And
sometimes it’s very different than two weeks ago even.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I mean when the pandemic hit, remember, two weeks! Staying home.
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SV: Yeah. We have a archive that we started mostly with the students, but with community as
well, trying to record experiences during that time.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: And it’s amazing so many students especially writing “I thought I was going to have a twoweek vacation and here I am a year later.” And, you know, it’s just—
RJ: Yeah.
SV: —it’s just a traumatic experience all the way around.
RJ: For sure. And, you know, I mean that is a part, I think, of being a mayor during a pandemic
that I—you know, it’s kind of interesting. I was on a Zoom with some girl scouts, and they said
to me “If you knew there was going to be a pandemic, would you still run for mayor?” (Sean
laughs) And it was funny because I didn’t even hesitate and I said, “Absolutely!”
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And the reason being is because I was the right person at the right time. I am very positive
and I’m very—I mean, you know, the glass is not half-full. The glass is almost to the top, right?
There’s always a way to bring everyone together. There’s always a way to, you know, encourage
people. And, you know, that’s what I did! My job changed. But I kept working. And, you know,
there were a lot of people that really needed to be seen and I let them know they were being seen.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I think without hesitation I am glad that I was the mayor at that point in time.
SV: Mm-hmm. It’s a really interesting thing that you say about there being—I guess you’re
saying so your job is obviously legislation. But it’s also emotional labor and care and I’m
hearing as well, communication is important.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: What are some other aspects? I guess my question is what would surprise people the most
about your job that people don’t know?
RJ: Oh, that’s a tough one. Gosh, I don’t even know if I have an answer to that. You know, it’s
interesting. So, Jeff Zevely, he’s from Channel 8. He actually was doing a show on our birthday.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And he said to me, he goes “You know, if San Marcos had a cheer squad, would you be on
it?” and I said, “I’m the head cheerleader! What are you talking about?” (both chuckle) And he
even said to me after the interview, he goes “You were so fast. You didn’t even like stop for one
second.” I said, “Well, that’s my job.” My job is to not just deal with all the tough stuff. It’s also
to be out advocating that San Marcos is a great place to live. We have so much for—You know,
you can start out, you know, as a baby. And pretty soon you’ll be able to be born here (indicates
quotations with her fingers), actually born here, because—I mean, I guess you could be born at
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your house if you’ve got a midwife or something but, you know, it’s not a traditional thing. You
could be born here, and you can earn a master’s degree and then you could work here, and you
could have a good paying job. Like that is a remarkable thing if you look at our city from our
humble roots: one stop light, chicken ranch, the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch right here where the
university is today.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And Hollandia Dairy. That’s all we were known for. And so, yeah, I would say a lot of
people might not know what that entails but it’s a lot of time and effort. I can assure you of that.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Like it’s almost more than the actual job, although I do a lot of reading. So, that’s probably
the most time consuming part of my job, you know, because when I show up, you know, I’ve
even had people at SANDAG say—that are a different political party than me—say, “You know,
I might not—” And actually this happened like maybe, well it’s happened a few times, but in the
last couple of weeks, where this man got up and he said, “You know, Mayor Jones—” and I’m
like going “Oh gosh. What’s he going to say?” (both laugh) You never know, right? And then he
says, “Mayor Jones, even though I philosophically don’t agree with you on everything, I
appreciate that you are always prepared, and you know exactly what you’re talking about
because you’re prepared.” And it really does require a lot of time and effort. And, you know,
there are times I wake up and I’m like “I’m tired today. I don’t want to work.” But I don’t get
that luxury. I have to do what I have to do. And I’ve got to pull it together. And it is a very—you
know, the cheerleading part of it and I’m not saying it, you know, like a cheerleader—but, you
know, being again the spokesperson, the person that’s in the front, the person that’s out and
about the most, probably one of the most identifiable positions in the community—even if
people don’t know me, they know that there’s a mayor. You know, to be the mayor of such an
incredible city, I’m really humbled by it. I really am. But it does take a lot of effort and it does
take a lot of, you know, inner strength. And, you know, I had a pretty tough childhood and, you
know, I was a latchkey kid a lot of the time. And, you know, my parents got divorced when I was
eleven which is a really tough age. And I had a lot of things happen where I just go “Gosh, I
wish it wouldn’t have been my life.” However, it was. But you know what? It also gives me the
authority when people are, you know, telling me “You know, I’m going through tough times,” I
get it! I was there. I’ve been there. And, you know, I think it helps me do a very good job. And,
you know, not everyone thinks I do a good job. But I just got reelected so—
SV: Yep!
RJ: —again, 64% of the vote. I don’t think I mentioned that before. But the largest margin I’ve
ever won by, I think that is a testament to how much I care for the community, how hard I work
for the community, and the fact that it’s not all about legislation to me. It really is about being
the cheerleader and the person that’s out in the front, talking about what a remarkable
community we have. And when I say, “the community,” it’s the people.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: It’s not me. It’s people that I represent. And I hope that they will always feel like they can
reach out to me, and I will always try to help them in whatever I can.
SV: Yeah. Thank you. I think I had maybe one or two more questions. But something that I
didn’t necessarily prepare to talk about in this interview, I wanted to ask you about was you
mentioned you’re the first mayor that was elected that’s a woman in San Marcos history.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: And I was curious if there are considerations that, in your opinion, that women politicians
have to take into account that men do not.
RJ: Huh! (Sean chuckles) Well…
SV: I know that’s a big question.
RJ: Well, I’m also not married. So, it actually is quite awkward—
SV: Yeah.
RJ: —in a lot of ways, you know, because I am out there. It opens it up for—And, you know,
there’s a lot of discussion about bias, right?
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: There is still bias against women. It’s sad. But there are. And women politicians! I don’t
know if people are surprised all the time. But, I mean, I have been, I mean, I’ve been called
names. I’ve been, you know, people try to box me in as I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to believe
that it’s 2023 and things still happen the way that they happen because, you know, talking about
what I look like, what my body looks like. I’ve had people actually talk about what my body
looks like! I’m thinking, wow! You know? Would you say that to your mother? Because I’m
pretty sure you wouldn’t. And so, you know, at a job like this that’s very out there, very highly
visible—and I am highly visible—you know, I’ve had a few times, very inappropriate comments,
inappropriate messages sent to me. And, you know, a couple of times I’m like “Gee, should I be
worried?” And I send everything to the Sheriff’s department when I have things that are sent to
me that are uncomfortable. But it’s different than being a man. One hundred percent. It’s very
different than being a man. I don’t think you have to worry about people talking about what you
look like. I don’t think that any man as a mayor would have people sending them messages about
what they look like.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I don’t think it would ever happen. Now, I don’t really mean if someone says “Oh, I really
like how your style.” That’s not sexual. But the truth is a lot of things that are sent are very
sexual and I think—I am actually flabbergasted, and you know I’m almost 56 years old. I’m
flabbergasted that at 56 years old, as an elected mayor, that I would be treated like this. But it
happens!
SV: Yeah.
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RJ: It’s really hard to believe. And, honestly, I feel bad for every woman that is just trying to do
a job and it gets distracted and convoluted by people bringing in other things that are just not
appropriate. It’s just not appropriate. I mean, talking about what I look like or whether they—I
mean, the first thing that someone said to me—I was offended but it was early on—was that my
teeth were freakishly white. And I went (makes a puzzled and slightly disgusted look on her face)
“Why would someone talk about that?” I don’t even think someone would say that about a man.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: But I feel like, as a woman, on some level there is this—it’s open to talk about what you’re
wearing, what you look like, whether they think you are, you know, someone they would want to
date or someone—I mean, like really inappropriate things when you’re just trying to darn well do
a job, you know what I mean? So, it really is just hard to believe that here we are in 2025—or
2023. Gosh, I can’t even believe I just said that. (both laugh)
SV: What would your advice—
RJ: You can cut that part out! (both still laughing)
SV: We’ll make a note. What would your advice be to women entering politics?
RJ: That’s another tough one. You know, I have a podcast too.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And one of the things about my podcast that I love is that you’ve got women from every
different, you know, career, all different political parties. It’s not at all political. But they’re all
just doing their job and they found something that they love. So, I guess one of the things that I
would tell women that are thinking about politics, if you love it, you should definitely do it
because you’re going to be very, very effective when you can put your heart into it. There is a lot
of preparation that happens. And like for me, you know, I now am the one with the historical
knowledge because I’ve been around so long. There is a lot to learn. I mean, you really do need
to try to figure out why things happened. I mean, when I first joined the council, I spent every
single Friday, like half a day, with the City Manager because he was with the city for like 24
years to find out everything I could about the why and the how and, you know, just how things
happen because I thought that would prepare me which it has. But don’t let the things—I mean,
you are going to have to have thick skin. It’s true. You are going to have to have thick skin,
thicker than a man that goes into politics. But don’t be deterred by people. You really need to
follow what you think is right and bringing in your own style. Like I don’t know anyone that
does my job the way that I do it because I do it my way. And I don’t let any political party call
me up and tell me what to do. I follow what I believe is right. And I follow the kind of politician
that I want to be, though I don’t really consider myself politician, technically I am. But I really
just want to do a good job. I want to be prepared. I think as a woman you probably have to be a
little more prepared. Otherwise, people will start thinking that “Well, you don’t belong there.
You’re not smart enough. You’re not this.” It really is about taking information and making a
good decision. If you’re a good decision-maker, you can do this job. You’re qualified. You love
the community, you’re qualified. If you are willing to put a lot into it, you’re qualified. Not
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everyone has that qualification. And when I say qualification, it’s not just what others believe but
it’s what you believe on the inside. And, you know again, back to my podcast, my podcast is
about elevating women because we really still need elevating.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: As, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, different segments of the population
whether you’re a minority, whatever, it really still is about women too. We do fit into that. The
equity and the inclusion isn’t all about your race. It’s about also your gender because our gender
still is a hinderance. And some people don’t see that. And I wish more people paid attention to
that because when you’re a woman, you’re a minority. You really do have more against you than
a man that’s a minority. And as a woman that is not a minority, you still have things against you
that are something that a man would not experience.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And I wish more people really paid attention to that. But, you know, back to the point of if
you’re a woman and you really want to, if you have a heart for politics, you should not let any
one person or segment of people deter you if you really, really have the heart for it because you
can do it. It just is going to be probably a little harder than it is for a man.
SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that answer. And I think it’s wonderful advice.
RJ: Thank you.
SV: I’ll give you a much nicer question.
RJ: Nah, that’s not a hard question at all! I, honestly, and I really do believe it. I mean, it’s
terrible! It really is terrible that we’re still there, in 2023.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Why did I say 2025? I don’t know. (Sean laughs)
SV: It happens. What is the best day of work that you’ve had?
RJ: Oh, gosh. There have been a lot of them. I would say I had a really good one recently. And
it’s weird because, you know, it’s always something different. But honestly, when I am out in the
community at an event and there are kids and they ask me things like—I was at the Boys and
Girls Club and I was, of all things, baking cookies with them. So, let me tell you a little story. So,
during the pandemic, we decided at West Lake Village that we, the city, that we were—well, we
already knew that we were going to have a long-term lease for the Boys and Girls Club so they
could expand their services at that location. And then, when we got some of our ARPA
(American Rescue Plan Act) funds, we were like okay, we’ll help them with the TIs (tenant
improvements) because then that’ll be good for the community because kids can go there and,
you know, spend, you know, more time there. So, anyway, I was like “Oh, they’re going to have
a kitchen there.” And I was like “That’s so cool.” So, I called up the director—and by the way, I
started a girls mentoring program at the Boys and Girls Club which during the pandemic we had
to kind of shut down. But I used my tax refund to put some money into it. And I said to them, I
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said “You know what would be great?” I go, “I really want to come back and spend more time
with the kids,” because I’ve been so busy since I got elected as mayor. I don’t always have time
to do all the things I really want to do. And I said, “Can I come back and, you know, bake
cookies with the kids?” And they were like “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “So, I want to also donate a
mixer.” You know, not all kids get to use a really nice KitchenAid mixer. But it’s really cool to
use and to learn and, you know again, like to your point, you know. When you’re a chef, you
probably are going to be using one of those at some point in time. So, I was like “I really want to
buy one.” I’m like “It’s on my heart. I want to do this.” So, I donated the mixer a while ago. And
then I’m like, “Gosh. Okay, it’s January. I need to start figuring out when I’m going to get in and
bake cookies with the kids because I really want to do it.” And so, we set up a date. It was right
after the darn (Highway) 78 flooding happened.
SV: Oh, yeah.
RJ: And CalTrans (California Department of Transportation). And it was that day. It was that
day at 4 o’clock. I was supposed to go over there and bake cookies with them. And then I had to
cancel because Caltrans had to have this emergency meeting. And I was like on Zoom, and I was
like “Oh, darn it.” I’m like “Oh, duty calls.” I’m like “Can we reschedule another day?” So, we
rescheduled another day. I get there and the kids are so excited to meet the mayor first of all.
And this is, by the way, intentionally in one of our lower income areas of the city. It’s over on
Autumn Drive. And they’re like “Do you think I could be a mayor?” And I just got to hang out
and talk to them and I’m like—and teach them how to make, you know, how to crack the eggs.
They were doing so good. And, you know, so there was about—I think there was like 12 or 14 of
them. I’m like “I want to go back and do that like so all the kids that go to that branch have that
moment of time with me.” Because I appreciated it as much as they did. And so, for me, the
moments like that or when I get to go and talk to, you know, kids that are at the Boys and Girls
Club service groups like Girls Scouts, Boys Scouts. All of the kids groups, honestly, those are
the best days that I always have. I mean, really, the kids are excited. I’m really excited to hear
what they have to say. But I also am getting a different—and back to, you know, my point of
going out and door knocking and meeting people and hearing what they have to say about the
city. I’m hearing it from kids and they’re going to be 100% honest.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: They’re not going to sugarcoat it.
SV: (laughs) That’s true.
RJ: They’re not going to try to fluff me up. They’re not going to try to get something out of me.
They are going to tell me exactly what they think about their community.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And you know what? I appreciate that. So, for me, it’s always about the moments with the
kids when I get to go out and do things like that. It actually fills me so much more than any other
moments because, again you know, you do have to put a lot into it. You know, when you’re out
there on—and when I say “on” (air quotes with her fingers) you know, you’re talking to people.
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And I don’t want people to feel like they can’t approach me. So, I’m very approachable. And that
is one of the things that I really do pride myself on. I don’t want anyone to feel like I ever don’t
approach—you know, they can’t approach me. And so, one of our community members sent me
this message recently and he said to me, “You know,” —his daughter was in the kids mentor, the
girls mentor group—and he said “You know,” he goes “it was so cute. My daughter, we were
talking about something.” And she’s also a Girl Scout. And he said “Yeah. She says ‘Well, I
know the mayor.’” (both laugh) And he’s like “and she was saying this, you know, to my wife
and, you know, to—we had friends over and she goes ‘yeah, I know the mayor.’” And he goes
“It was the coolest thing because she really felt like she connected with me.” And I’m like “She
did connect with me.” and I love that. I love that our kids in the community can feel like they
connected with me because I feel like they will never probably forget that. And I oftentimes
when I’m places—I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. I was getting some food to go from
San Marcos Market. There was a mom and the daughter and I were just kind of talking. And I
went out to my car, and I got her one of our city pens and then I said to her, and I say this very
often—so, you know, our city emblem is a wayfinding sign, a compass—and I said to her, I said,
“Do you know what this is?” I took it back to her. I said, “Do you know what this is?” And she
goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, you’ll probably see it on all of our San Marcos signs. It’s a
wayfinding sign, so it’s a compass.” And I said, “What it stands for is to discover life’s
possibilities. And it’s going to be different for you than it is for me and for your little friends.
Every single one of you has something that is your path to success.” And it’s not all—
Everyone’s not going to go to a four-year college. I actually didn’t go to a four-year college. But
everyone’s going to have a path to success. And I want everyone to know that they’ve got
something inside of them that is what their path is and, you know, it might not be traditional. It
might be traditional, but it might not. And I want everyone to know that there is their best self.
There is a place that is a best self for every single person. And, again, it’s going to be very
different for everyone. And, you know, my kids, my daughter just graduated from USD. My son
went to Palomar. Totally different kids. Totally different people. But it doesn’t mean that one is
going to be more successful than the other. And I want people to know that and believe that in
themselves. I didn’t have parents that, you know, tried to make me feel like I could be successful
in whatever I did. I honestly believe that my parents just wanted me to get married and have
babies. And that was all they really hoped for me. And here I am. I’m the mayor of one of the
best cities in the county. And I am so grateful for every moment that I get to spend in the
community and encouraging people and spending my time letting them know that we believe in
them. We care about them. That’s what my job is in a nutshell. And I know it is kind of back to a
different point of what we were talking about. But the truth is every moment that you’re
inspiring kids in the community is a win for me.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: So, those days are the best. And, you know, really I try to—I always carry my pens in the
car. I’m like “Wait! Just wait!” I try to throw them, honestly, in my purse sometimes or in my
pocket or whatever. I don’t always remember. But I think those moments when you just say that
one thing, that could change the trajectory of someone’s life. And I know I remember my fourthgrade teacher, Mrs. Long. Here I am, you know, 56 years old almost. And I remember fourth
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grade, what she said to me. She said, “You can do bigger things than you think you can.” And I
just know that that’s why I am the right person, right now, to do what I’m doing.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And I’m so grateful for it. And I really have a hard time believing that I actually am doing
this, but I love it. Most days I absolutely love it,
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And there are times when you’re tired and you go “I don’t want to get up today.” But then,
you know, you have those days where you really just go “Okay. This is going to fill me in. Now,
I can get through another week or whatever.”
SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I think that’s a great sentiment to end our interview on. I did
want to ask you just one more question and that is if there’s anything that I should have asked
you that I did not.
RJ: No, because honestly, you know how I—I think you realize what my style is. (both laugh) if
you don’t bring it up and I want to say it, I’ll just bring it in there. So, no, I don’t think so.
SV: Okay.
RJ: Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s funny. At KUSI, they’re like “Oh, well, we’ll just ask you one
question. You just know what to do.” (both laugh) “You know what, you can just get everything
you want to say in.” I’m like “Oh, okay. Thanks!” And, you know, by the way, when I was first
elected as mayor, I was like “I can’t go on TV! I’m scared to death! I’m going to be sweating.
I’m going to be stressed. I’m going to say wrong things.” Like now, I’m like, I laugh about it.
You know, what I said. I’m like “Aw, geez. Two thousand twenty-five. What am I saying?”
(raises her hands and chuckles) You know, but I used to be really hard on myself. But you know
what? I don’t think people really want perfection. They want truth and honesty and authentic.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And, you know, I try to be those things. I try to be, you know—I don’t even honestly think
about it. I just try not to be guarded when I am—And, you know, if I show up to something, I
don’t want to be the person that is like “Cheese!” (motions as if smiling widely for a camera)
take a picture and then leave. Like, I’m there to do whatever you need me to do. Like if I need to
take out trash, get icky stuff on my hands, I’m going to do it. Like, I want to be fully engaged
when I show up to things. And I don’t think every politician is like that. I honestly wish there
were more people, not exactly my style, but really having the reason as the reason, as the real
reason, you know what I mean? Not like “Oh, I’m looking for my next thing, my next higher
office.” (makes air quotes with hands) You know, I am planning on running for county
supervisor next. But if I’m not elected, I’m totally fine. I’ve done good. I really do believe that. I
really do believe I’ve done good.
SV: Yeah. When are you running for county supervisor?
RJ: In 2026, when this term is over.
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SV: Okay.
RJ: So, not to worry. I’m not going to skip like in the middle of my term. So, Jim Desmond will
be termed out and I’m running for that seat. And, you know, it’s a bigger job but, you know, the
good thing is I will get paid for the hours that I work.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then I have staff. So, I think I can work on the same level, you know, put in the same
amount but have more fruit because I have people working for me and I’m actually getting paid
for it. So—
SV: Yeah.
RJ: You know, because we make less than $12,000 a year. I don’t know if you know that.
SV: I didn’t know.
RJ: Yeah. Yeah. I’m the best value in the county. (both laugh) Everyone’s like—Well, actually a
bunch of my friends are like “You’re the hardest working mayor in the whole county!” And I go
“Well, you know, yeah.” But, again, I’m not one of those people that shows up and like takes a
picture and leaves. That’s just not my thing.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I don’t do that. Anyway. Anything else?
SV: No. Thank you so much for your time.
RJ: Do you feel like you know me now?
SV: I do!
RJ: Okay, good.
SV: I appreciate you spending some time—
RJ: Yeah.
SV: —talking with us today. And I think this is going to be really valuable to our students and
researchers in the future. So, thank you.
RJ: Well, again, you know our city has come such a long way. And we really do have a lot to be
proud of. And I really do believe that people that live here and I hear it time and time again,
showing up at their house and they’re like “I love it here.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: “I love this city. I really wouldn’t live anywhere else.” And, you know, even when they’re
upset about things, they still don’t want to leave. They still are very happy. They’re like “But,
it’s better than—” You know, blah, blah, blah. Or where else. So, I think, you know, we’ve built
a great place. My first house was over behind Fire Station No. 2. (points in front and to the left
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with her left hand) And now I live over off of La Moree. (points behind her right shoulder with
her right hand) So, I’ve had three houses over here. So, I’ve owned four houses in the city.
SV: Nice.
RJ: I’m definitely not leaving.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I love it here.
SV: Well, thank you, again. I appreciate everything.
RJ: Of course, yeah.
Transcribed by Melissa Martin
35
2023-12
�
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Jones, Rebecca. Interview transcript, April 12. 2023.
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Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos.
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Rebecca Jones
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Melissa Martin
Sean Visintainer
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2023-04-12
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COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy
Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
San Diego Association of Governments
Women in politics
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San Diego County (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University University Library
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en</a>
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Rebecca Jones
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Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives@csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found.
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text
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JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12_transcript
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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Oral History
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Diania Caudell
Interviewee
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Linda Kallas
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=KallasLinda_CaudellDiania_2022-12-22_access.xml
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5.4 Kallas, Linda. Interview December 22, 2022 SC027-051 00:39:59 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Arts education Basket making California State University San Marcos Death and rememberance Education -- Native Americans Illustration of books Luiseno Indians Pablo Tac Elementary School (Oceanside, Calif.) Oceanside (Calif.) Valley Arts Festival (Oceanside, Calif.) Women artists Linda Kallas Diania Caudell KallasLinda_CaudellDiania_2022-12-22_access.mp4 1.0:|18(15)|33(5)|44(15)|58(8)|78(2)|94(7)|108(18)|122(13)|148(14)|161(11)|179(11)|193(6)|209(8)|222(8)|233(11)|256(15)|271(4)|291(3)|303(3)|316(18)|326(3)|338(8)|365(4)|394(4)|412(6)|422(6)|433(7)|460(4)|472(3)|483(6)|499(7)|509(9)|525(4)|536(6)|552(16)|562(8)|575(7)|588(11)|600(7)|618(7) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/b51d19e031c6564af02b12943939dc32.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Hellos are exchanged and introductions are said. Diania Caudell ; North County Oral History Initiative ; Linda Kallas 0 47 Early childhood Kallas describes her early childhood in New Jersey, followed by her moving to California. Kallas discusses an automobile accident she was involved in while she was young, as well as brief family introductions to her siblings, stay-at-home mother, and father's alcoholism. California ; Newark, New Jersey ; Automobile accident ; Alcoholism ; Drummer ; Hughes Aircraft 0 158 Elementary education Kallas describes early childhood education where she moved around to seven different elementary schools. Kallas recalls her love of the library and her passion for learning as well as swimming. Kallas also recollects her father's artistic side, and discovering her own love of art through her father. Library ; Youth ; Elementary school ; The Secret Garden ; Darby Dolls ; Art 0 231 Childhood activities Kallas describes her youth in the things she was drawn to, such as swimming, drawing riding bikes. Swimming ; Pool ; Parade ; Bikes ; Draw ; Art ; Paint 0 302 Post high school Kallas describes her life right after high school, with her marriage to her high school sweethart, moving away from her home to Crestline. Kallas also discusses breaking up with future husband, discovering her independence, and then getting back together and starting a family.
 ; Marriage ; Graduation ; Snow ; Medical Assistant ; Family ; Sons ; Crestline, California 0 406 Undergraduate and postgraduate education Kallas decides to go back to school, where she received an Associates of Arts degree in Early Childhood Education. She went on to attain two BAs from California State San Marcos, and continued for her master's and became a teacher for almost eighteen years at Jefferson Middle School. AA ; Casa De Emparo ; Teaching ; Master's Degree ; Middle School ; Art ; Drama ; El Camino College ; CSU San Marcos ; National University 0 549 Volunteering at the Oceanside Public Library Kallas describes her time Volunteering at the Oceanside Public Library and the Mission Branch Library. Through these, Kallas helped create the Art for Older Adult program. Kallas has also illustrated a children's book, "Mel and the Blue Arrow," written by Cathleen Chilcote Wallace, a Luiseño storyteller, writer, and elementary school teacher, and a coloring book written by Diania Caudell. Volunteering ; Coloring ; Book ; Oceanside Public Library ; Literacy Center ; Art for older adult Program ; Mission Branch Library ; Mel and the Blue Arrow ; Luiseño Indians 0 670 Living in Oceanside circa 1989 Kallas describes what life was like in Oceanside 1989 ; its rural nature, ease of getting around, and agriculture. The construction of the 76 Freeway prompted a move to a senior community. Kallas discusses the places she likes to visit in Oceanside. Oceanside 1989 ; Farmland ; Pumpkins ; 76 Freeway 0 759 The death of Kallas's son, Jake, and coming to terms with his passing Kallas discusses son Jake who was killed in a car accident in 2010, and while trying to deal with that traumatic experience, found the San Luis Rey Bakery and the flute circle there, where Kallas and her husband joined a new community. Death ; Ivy Ranch ; Hohomi Park ; San Luis Rey Bakery ; Flute Circle ; Commemorative bench ; Luiseño Indians 0 970 Joanne Tawfilis and her murals Kallas talks about muralist Joanne Tawfilis and her work, as well as the Muramid Museum and Arts Center, a UNESCO Peace Center. Muralist ; UNESCO Peace Center ; Joanne Tawfilis ; Uvalde massacre 0 1073 The Literacy Center Kallas describes her with the Oceanside Public Library's Literacy Center, helping developmentally disabled adults. Adult Education ; Literacy Center ; Art ; Language Artist ; Oceanside Public Library 0 1188 Retirement Kallas describes her passions after retirement, such as drawing and opening her own business, Floating Hearts Connections. She also talks about swimming, and meeting with friends. Also the conversation occurs between Linda and Diania of placing Linda's art in the Oceanside Art Walk. Drawing ; Swimming ; Business ; Floating Arts Collections 0 1409 Mentors Caudell asks Kallas about a mentor/role model in Kallas's life. Kallas speaks about her father and his passion for painting, and speaks about how her mother pushed her to become a professor. Kallas also speaks about a couple professors Linda had in college Deborah Small, and Yareli Arizmendi. Kallas also mentions her recent friends that she has made, like Mel, Diania Caudell, and family members. Mentors ; Family ; Professors ; Role Models ; Deborah Small ; Yareli Arizmendi ; Diania Caudell ; Joanne Tawfilis 0 1620 Friendships, basket making, Valley Arts Festival Kallas speaks about her friendship with Mel Vernon (Luiseño), she mentions how close they are and the impact he has had on her life. Also mentions specific moments in their friendship through art. She also speaks to her passion for basket making and how she struggles but enjoys it. Kallas also speaks to the Valley Arts Festival, which just held its second festival. Friendship ; Bond ; Music ; Artword ; Art ; Basket Making ; Valley Arts Festival 0 1976 Proud accomplishments Kallas recalls winning teacher of the year, which she describes as one of her greatest accomplishments. She also mentions how her artwork is something that she is proud of. To this she talks about her long-term goals in in creating a website to market her curriculum, honoring the native California peoples, and writing books, including a new book in honor of her sister. Teacher of the Year ; Books ; Writing 0 2161 Regrets in life Kallas, asked about her regrets in life, brings up her mistakes and how the mistakes are what make you who you are. She also talks about how positive outlets impacted her life, such as yoga and meditation.
 ; 
 ; Regrets ; Mistakes ; Experiences ; Yoga ; Meditation 0 2310 Final thoughts/final message Kallas has a final message to the viewer of the video, as well as a final heartfelt note about her passed son. Goals ; Interests ; Love 0 moving image Oral history interview of Linda Kallas, December 22, 2022. Interview conducted by Diania L. Caudell. Linda Kallas is a retired middles school art and drama teacher who has collaborated with other local artists and authors on a variety of endeavors, including illustrating "Mel and the Blue Arrow" written by Mel Vernon (Luiseño). Kallas and Vernon also collaborated on a Luiseño/English coloring book and on an arts integrated curriculum taught at Pablo Tac Elementary School in Oceanside. Kallas is also on the committee for the Valley Arts Festival that celebrates Luiseño culture each November at Heritage Park, Oceanside. In her interview, Kallas talks to Diania Caudell about topics such as family, school, higher education, post-college life, and her various art and cultural projects. Diania Caudell: Good morning. My name is Diania Caudell and I’m, today I’m interviewing Linda Kallas. And today’s date is December 22, 2022. I’m with the North County Oral History Initiative. And it’s a class that we’re both been taking. And so, this is my 2nd interview. And wish us luck here! Are you ready, Linda? Here we go! Linda Kallas: I’m ready! DC: Okay. We’re going to be starting really simple and everything on that. That’s what they told us to keep it going so to make sure that you’re going to be really at ease. And you can smile when you want to, or whatever. So, let me know. LK: Yeah. DC: Uh, just when and where were you born? LK: I was born in Norton, New Jersey in 1953. And we lived there ‘til I was three and then we moved to California. After I was hit by a car —I have the dent to prove it right here— (rubs the pointer finger of her left hand on a portion of her forehead) I was in traction for several weeks in the hospital. And then my father had an opportunity to be in California for a new job. So, we moved out here. My left leg was three inches shorter. I remember the limp. (paddles her hands in front of her) I don’t remember the accident. I remember the hospital. But the limp—The leg grew and caught up with the other leg. So— DC: You want to tell me a little bit more about your family? LK: Um, my dad was a drummer by profession. And then after he had three of us, three children, and we moved to California, then my sister was born. And having four kids—and my mother was only in her early twenties—they got married really young. He finally got a real job, working as a plumber for a big—I think it was Hughes Aircraft. And then it was—we had a lot of turmoil because of his affliction. He was an alcoholic. And mom was a stay-at-home mom. And then I had two—she had two more boys. So, there were six kids in the family. And then they stayed married ‘til I think I was seventeen. And then they divorced. And that was chaos too. But anyway. DC: Anyway. Okay. Would you like to speak of what school was like for you as a child? LK: Well, we moved a lot. So, I went to like seven different elementary schools. We moved all the time. And I have fond memories of elementary. That’s kind of my safe place to go to, remembering good things. Like I had a teacher in third grade that read us The Secret Garden and that sparked my love of reading. She would read to us every afternoon. And I just loved hearing that story out loud, and then the library at the schools. The library was a safe zone for me. School was my safe zone. And I think that’s why I furthered my education because it was something that made me feel good. Learning, I loved learning. So, but, so there wasn’t really anything negative at school for me, other than high school and the cliques and the—you know how that is. (Diania chuckles) I stayed away from cliques. I was friends with everyone. I never fit in to one little group. I just always was friends with everyone. So— DC: On the activities when you were a child, I mean, what were you drawn to mostly, other than the reading and the library wizard? LK: Swimming, because we finally moved into a house with a pool. And I swam every day. That was my—I just loved— to this day, I love to swim. Mom always tried to get me to be like a cheerleader. She forced me to do—it was called “Darby Dolls” (makes air quotes with her hands). They were just pom-pom girls. (motions as if waving pom-poms) And I was in a parade and I remember just being miserable. Just, that just was not me. Because I was a tomboy. I wanted to do what the boys did, ride bikes. I wanted to have a paper route. Girls were not allowed then to have paper routes. So, swimming was really one of the things I loved to do. And I drew. I always loved to draw. My father also was a visual artist. And I remember watching him paint murals on the wall. And it just seemed magical to me that he could tace this blank space and all of a sudden there’s a bush there or a tree there. So, I think I learned my love of art through him. And that was part of his recovery when he would sober up. That’s what he would do. He would paint. DC: Now, one of the things though, from high school, you went on to college? What— LK: No. DC: No? LK: No. Not right out of high school. (shakes her head) DC: Okay. LK: No. I married my high school sweetheart. (Diania chuckles) Not married right away. We got together in ’71 —’70 was our first date. And then I graduated in ’71. And then we moved in together and we lived in Crestline, the mountains, for almost a year. But we were so dumb. (Diania laughs) We’re southern California brats, right? We didn’t know anything about living in the snow. So, I remember when we got our first electric bill and gas bill. And I went “You have to pay for that???” I thought it just came with the house. (Diania chuckles) So, um, that was quite the experience. And then we broke up for a year and I lived on my own, which was a really important turning point. I became a medical assistant, and I learned that I could take care of myself. I didn’t need to have another person to take care of me. And then we got back together. And then we decided to get married five years later and start a family. So, we have two sons. And that was it! Two boys. That was enough. (both laugh) DC: So, when did you decide to actually go back to school? LK: Not ‘til after the birth of my first son. You know, a lot of things came natural to me, coming from a big family and being the oldest girl. I had to tace care of the younger siblings most of the time. So, the baby stage, and nursing them, and all that stuff came really natural. But when they became—when Josh became a toddler, I was like “Now what do you do with them?” You know, I’d play with them, and I wanted to learn more about child development. That’s what sparked me to go back to school. So, I got an AA in Early Childhood Education. And then I changed fields and worked in that field for years, through my second son too. And then, even when we moved here from L.A., I was a director of a crisis day care center, Casa de Emparo. So, that AA degree served me really well. I was able to make a living doing it. But then, there’s only—you couldn’t go any further than being a director unless I wanted to become a teacher of it. So, then I started helping out at the elementary schools with my boys. And I really loved that. And so, that’s what sparked me further and to get a teaching credential and then wind up teaching for almost twenty years and got a master’s degree in education, so— And I taught Art and Drama at the middle school level. And that was really, really fun. DC: So, did you go to a local college when you were down here? LK: I went to—I got my AA in L.A. at El Camino College. And then when we moved here, I’d gotten my BA—well, I have two BAs at Cal State San Marcos. And the master’s degree—I call it my drive-through. I shouldn’t say this. My drive-through master’s is through National University. DC: So, you were alone out here, right from Cal State San Marcos? LK: Yep. Mm-hmm. I am. DC: Yeah. Good for you. Okay. So, you’re one of the originals that were here on the campus. LK: Yes. DC: It was pretty small. Was it small? LK: Before the campus, they were in the Jerome's Shopping Center. That’s where I took my first classes. And I got the teaching credential through Cal State San Marcos as well. It took me a really, really long time because I did everything part-time. I still worked, had the kids, and then did schooling part-time. So, I was 44 before I ever stepped foot in my own classroom. DC: And then after that, you did it for how many years? LK: Almost 18. I was at Jefferson Middle School for almost 18 years. DC: And Jefferson is located where? LK: It’s Oceanside Unified School District. It’s in the older part of Oceanside . DC: And so, up to today you’re still with education in some forms. LK: Yes. I started volunteering at the library, the Oceanside Public Library at the Literacy Center. And I really loved doing that. And then I went to the Mission branch library and got with Jenna Lease. And we created the Art for Older Adult program. And that’s at the senior center in El Corazon. And next year, we’ll be at both senior centers. I also write curriculum which, Mel (Vernon), my interviewee’s brother (Diania chuckles), he wrote a book called Mel and the Blue Arrow and asked me to illustrate it. So, I did. And so, we’ve been selling that. And then we approached Pablo Tac Elementary School. They recently changed the name to that. And he—I proposed this curriculum based on Mel and the Blue Arrow. And then, with Diania, I put together a coloring book. Diania helped me with the translation. It’s in Luiseño and English. And that’s been very successful. So, the students will get Mel and the Blue Arrow and the coloring book. So, we start teaching there in February. DC: Twenty? LK: 2023. DC: 2023. Okay, when—for me, you know, and in it, being able to interview you, I mean it’s an honor to be with you and learn from you. But some of the questions on here, you know, you’ve been in this region here in Southern California, not just L.A., but down here in San Diego County for how long? LK: Since 1989. DC: So, 1989. So, you’ve seen changes that have affected where you’re living at or in the area. Are any of them for you positive, that you’ve enjoyed watching the change? Or is it some things that are coming through that are—feel like the region is getting too crowded? Or how do you feel about it? LK: It’s so different than when we moved down. Part of the attraction to this, to Oceanside was we lived in a condominium that overlooked the Mission. But that was all fields and there was farmland. And you would walk across the street and buy fresh pumpkins. There was a farm stand. We could walk to the river and float on the river. We can’t do any of that anymore. There’s buildings, buildings. The 76, we moved here before the 76 was completed. And they kept saying “Oh, they’ll never build it. It’s been on the books for years.” Well, they built it. And it was literally—you could throw a stone from our condo. The noise level was unbearable. That’s what prompted us to move to, now we live in a senior community, which is very quiet (Diania laughs) which we really like. And the streets are really wide. (both laugh) The neighbors are really nice. And so, we kind of found our niche there. DC: So, do you have favorite places in the community there in Oceanside or around the surrounding areas? LK: Well, my husband’s a surfer so we love the beach. We go to the harbor quite often to visit the bench of our youngest son. Did you want me to talk about that? DC: It’s up to you. LK: Our youngest son, twelve years ago, was killed in a car accident. And so, we placed a bench at the harbor, right across from the boat launch, in his memory. So, we go there quite often and sit on the bench and talk to Jake. I love a lot of the area there. I love Heritage Park. I love Ivy Ranch Parks. We love parks. Hohomi Park. All the parks we frequent quite often. I enjoy going to the Mission just because of the grounds more than anything. I feel like I’m walking in history when I go there. Having learned what I’ve learned about the Luiseños, it’s a way of honoring the memory of the Luiseños there on that land. It’s sacred land but not sacred because the mission is there. It’s sacred land because there was a village there. And I’ve learned a lot and learned to appreciate history in that way. DC: Well, one of the things that I think I’ve heard you talk about that’s unique is—okay, talk about when you go to the bakery, San Luis Rey Bakery. What was happening there when you first was going through there. LK: Oh. The bakery. (Diania laughs) After Jake died in 2010, the anguish was unbelievable. I’ve never experienced anything like that before or since. And I’ve been through a lot being raised the way I was raised. But that was just—that was like a part of my soul was taken and my identity. All of a sudden, I was searching online all the time for things to get my head on, out of the place it was in, and all of a sudden, this announcement popped up of a flute circle at the San Luis Rey Bakery. And I went (opens her mouth wide as if in awe) “Jim, we’re going to go to that.” (Diania chuckles) So, we went. It was about, not maybe a year later, I think. And Mel is the one that started that. And so, we started going faithfully every month. And little by little just the healing of that sound and the camaraderie of the people, and the friend—They were so friendly. Everybody was just so warm and friendly, and we just kind of felt like we fit there. And so, we went until— It wasn’t Covid hit, really. But through that, I became friends with Mel. That’s where we started talking about the book. And I became friends with Diania and other people, Marge and Rob, and the people that frequent the flute circle. And it just was—had a really, really positive influence on me. DC: Did you try to play the flute? LK: I have a flute and I do have one little tune I keep working on. DC: You should have brought it! (Linda laughs) We could have played it. Now, I’m going to get you to play the flute. LK: It’s not for public consumption. (both laugh) I probably wouldn’t be able to hit one note. (motions with her hands as if pressing on a flute) DC: Yeah. With the, you know, living there in the valley and seeing the different changes. You know, like you just talked about, and the flute circle is not there anymore. It’s not that they don’t want it. It’s just that the capacity and the people have gone on to other things. LK: Mm-hmm. (nods her head) DC: There is a unique area right next door also that you’re involved in. You want to talk about that a little bit? LK: Are you talking about the Muramid Museum? DC: Yes. Yes. LK: With Joanne Tawfilis? Um, yes. Joanne is a muralist. And she does murals for any occasion. But she usually honors, I guess, tragic events. So, if some kind of tragedy happens, she paints a mural. And then, she sends it to that place. The most recent was Uvalde in Texas when that crazy person shot all those children. But I help her with murals. She does other unique things as well. But murals seem to be her niche in life. And she’s also in the UNESCO Peace Center there. And one of these days we’ll have a grand opening, when the landlord signs off on it (motions as if signing something with her right hand) And she does different events there, like her partner is a drummer, so they do African drumming every Saturday. And she’ll have events there to honor things that are going on, like she just did her birthday event. That was quite unique. DC: I know that other things that you work with the community, you know, not just like the Muramid, but I’d like you to stress your art, involvement really with the art. It’s unique, you know, I think. So, you’ve shared other things that I wasn’t aware of, you know. And I think that’s unique for us to learn. But can you specify what you do there at the centers there in Oceanside with the— LK: Are you thinking of Studio Ace? DC: No, no. The one down in Oceanside by the library? What’s that center? LK: Oh, the Literacy Center. DC: Yes! Yes. LK: The Literacy Center, I work with developmentally disabled adults. We started a Read-and-Draw Program. So, I did a whole year of character education with them. So, I would bring in posters where they were learning art literacy, visual literacy as well. But each poster had to do with a character trait, for example, like compassion, or caring, or integrity. So, they got a different character trait that they learned. And then we would involve poetry. So, we would write poems. They would do a little drawing lesson and learn to talk about art. And they learned a lot. And so, we’re going to continue that next year. We’re changing the name to, which I really like, “Language Artist.” So, they’ll get—and it’s going to be based on the LeBrons art. He’s an abstract expressionist artist. And so, we’ll look at his art and then I’ll teach them a lesson. And then, they’ll write something. So, it’s all about literacy. And then, also, I’ve been involved with Studio Ace since its inception. I’ve been Julia’s advisor, consultant, whatever you want to call it. I set up programs for her at Laurel Elementary. And before Pablo Tac was Pablo Tac, it was San Luis Rey Elementary. So, two schools I wrote curriculum for, trained two teachers and then they took over. But, after that, I just would kind of consult with her, and we created some classes together for the library. And then I transferred from working with her to working with the library directly. DC: So, there’s going to be some changes in your life soon. But how has your life’s path evolved and changed over the years? LK: I think since I’ve retired, when you teach art or drama for that matter, the last thing you want to do when you go home is more of it because you’re so involved with it all day, seven and a half hours a day. So, that part of my life has really increased as far as my drawing, and doing art on my own, just for myself. But now, I want to tace that venture a little further and I’m going to—well, I’ve opened my own business. And so, I’m still going to be offering all the same things I offer right now—workshops, art lessons, curriculum, whatever people need, healing arts. I have a whole repertoire of stuff that I can offer. But it will be under the title of “Floating Hearts Connections.” And even that has meaning to it. Floating hearts is actually an aquatic plant, and the leaves are shaped like a heart and then this little yellow flower comes up. And it has five petals. And that has meaning to me because I told you before, I love to swim. Well, when I’m done swimming, my favorite thing to do is to float. And so, with that in mind, I was looking for names and talked with my husband, talked with you, talked with Mel. And they said—all of you said I have to include something heart felt because that’s what I do. I collaborate with people and provide healing through the arts. And so, when I found that, I went “Oh my gosh! Heart, floating, arts” and then the connections that I make. And floating is an acronym also for the love of hearts in teaching. So, it all just kind of fits it. And so, I have a little logo that I’m working on, and I have the business license. And I’ve got the insurance. I’m a vendor with the city of Oceanside now. So, eventually I’ll do a website and have like business cards. I’ll be all official. (Diania chuckles) So, I can go anywhere and do it. I don’t have to just stay in Oceanside. DC: Are you going to, at some point, be part of that art—is it the art walk, or whatever it is there in Oceanside with a booth or anything showing— LK: Oh. (sighs) DC: —what you’re going to be doing? LK: I hadn’t thought about doing that. DC: Yeah. LK: Maybe. I don’t know. It’s on my favorite— DC: Floating hearts. I can see it already, you know. I picture it, you know, on your canopy and the whole thing. LK: Well, Diania, to tell you the truth, I hadn’t considered it. (Diania laughs) But I do reach out to the organizations. Like I did a mural for Ivy Ranch Horse Park. And that was successful. And then Preserve Calavera, I did one. So, I do reach out to other organizations. But I hadn’t thought about doing it monthly at Art Walk. But I will consider it. DC: And once you get your logo going. LK: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the stuff I do is volunteer. DC: Oh, yes. Yes. LK: So, that I think you have to pay. I’m not sure. But I can find out. I may have to pay for a table to do that. But I don’t know. DC: (chuckles) We’ve got some more things in there. LK: (coughs) Excuse me. DC: Some of these questions that I’m reading for this class and things, you know, I can talk more, and it depends on how personal you want to, you know, get into there. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: Like is there any mentors that you had through your life that have gotten you, you know, from one stage to another? You know, you can go back on— I look at it, you can go back on your life and, you know, from your childhood and, you know, the turmoil at one point. And you must have had some type of mentor. You did mention a teacher, you know, at that point. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: And then, almost everyone had some type in their stage that they don’t realize. There’s that mentor or that one person that it made a difference, either by saying something or doing something. Is there any mentor that you feel has helped you throughout your life? LK: That encouraged— DC: That encouraged you, that have gotten you to where you’re at today, and you want to speak about them or just mention them, you know, there, and how they helped you at each different phase in your life. LK: Well, dad was probably my first inspiration. Like I said, it was magical to watch him paint. Mom discouraged it. She didn’t—I guess she was worried that I was going to tace a path of no return or something. But she always wanted me to become a professional person. And it was interesting. We had a conversation on the phone one time. She said, “I always thought you’d be this professional businesswoman.” And I started laughing. And she’s all, “What’s so funny?” I said, “I am a professional, mom. I’m a teacher.” She goes, “Oh, not that kind of profession.” Like it was—she kind of thought of it as babysitting, I guess, in her own mind. She never looked at teaching as a profession. So, I think that got my dander up even more as far as “Well, I’ll show you.” But then, in college, I had many professors. Deborah Small was one of them, Yareli Arizmendi, many professors that saw talent and encouraged it in me, gave me more confidence, especially with theater. Yareli is a professional actress, and she was the professor there at Cal State San Marcos for a while. Her classes were fantastic, and I had a starring role in one of the plays we performed around the city. But Deborah Small, she kind of ventured off into computer art, which I found was not my niche. I preferred drawing. I’m a drawer. I don’t consider myself a painter. I draw everything. I can paint, and I can use color. But there’s something about a pencil and paper I love. So, there were colleagues , principals that I worked with that saw in me things that I didn’t know I had. But, most recently, it’s been people like you, Diania, and Mel in particular, Joanne, my husband, my son. My grandkids, Ty and Katie, are very important influencers in my life. And they’re like my biggest fans, so a lot of family. But a lot of—I think the friends I have now are the closest friends that, compared to past friends when I was younger, it’s different making friends at this age. It’s a much deeper level or something. It’s not superficial at all. So, I thank all of you for that. But I think the one who has pushed me the hardest has been your brother. DC: (laughs. Linda nods her head.) Well, he’s, to me—I’m just going to let you know—this was the interview going back and forth, and we’re talking here—is that he sees something in you, and he connect. And I think it’s the—you both are talented artists. He’s in the music field. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: And you show at your artwork, you know. You can express it through art. He expresses himself through music. LK: Yes. DC: And I think the two of you make a good compare because you bounce off each other, like brother and sister. It’s, you know, on that. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: It’s not like, you know, husband and wife. It’s more like a brother and sister type of thing. LK: Yeah. Yeah. DC: And you’re, you know—it’s good. And you can speak freely to each other, and it’s good. I think I’ve seen the growth in both of you on that. There’s other things that you have joined us with, you know, but you don’t mention it. You want to say another type of artwork that you try to get into (laughs). LK: Yeah, absolutely. But that’s only through you trusting me and seeing something in me that I didn’t know there either. Like basketry has been phenomenal. I just—I love it! And I love the process. I love watching the people do it. I enjoy helping you, and just the joy it brings people to put together a basket. You don’t think about that as being something people will be drawn to. But they are. And they’re just kind of one with their basket as they’re creating it, and the joy that is coming from them and the healing. Because like I tell my students, when you’re doing art, any kind of art, it’s just you and that piece. Whatever it is you’re working on, your mind is still going, and the problems are still there. But it takes a back seat because you are so focused on what you’re creating. And that’s where the healing begins, is—And basketry is like that. Something about going over, under, over, under (laughs) and getting it right, getting the tension right. It’s so important. It’s just really—The other thing that we’re involved in is the Valley Arts Festival which is—Julia started—well, she got a grant. And when she got the grant, she wanted to know what we should focus on. And her and I had talked about different cultures for many years. We wanted to do these things. And so, I mentioned the Luiseños because I’ve become close with you and Mel. And so, I introduced Mel to her and you to her, I think. And that’s where it went. We just started meeting and planning the Valley Arts Festival which is—We just did our second one, and it was a huge success. And so, hopefully, that’s going to continue every year whether she gets that grant or not. We need to continue it because we’re educating the community about just acknowledging the fact that the Luiseños were here ten or twelve thousand years before the encroachment of the white people. (both laugh) DC: It should be that way. But when are you going to go? I knew you’d say something about the basketry, you know. But that’s not the Luiseño. That’s not our traditional. That’s more the Cherokee style. What do you feel about learning when you have to sit down and you’re weaving with us, with traditional? LK: That is a challenge because the materials are so—You’re very precise about what materials are used for what part. And it took me a long time to learn even the names, the juncus, the—wait a minute. I’ll get it in a minute. DC: (whispers something) Yucca. LK: Yucca! (both laugh) That is the one I always forget! Always. But what you use for what part of the basket. And the starting is difficult, but I find the weaving, getting it precise and even and even the width of it. Like I have to take it out because the one I started is—I went too thick too soon. But the beauty of it and using the natural materials, there’s something about manipulating that natural material. But what I focus on when I’m working with you, I think this is what they did. They had time to do this, like and it was important because they used—They were functional art. They used the baskets for everyday things. And our culture, we just go and buy what we need. We didn’t have to worry about sitting and making something that could hold berries or hold whatever it was you were going to gather. It’s fascinating to me to be able to learn to do that. Because you can buy a kit and do a little basket online, you know, buy a kit online and do a basket. But to do it from the natural materials—Because you have permission to go and gather that material, the real thing, authentic. I guess that’s what it is. It’s the authenticity of it. That’s what’s so wonderful about it. DC: On some of the bigger picture here, what do you think some of your greatest accomplishments are, you know, up to this point in your life? What do you feel? LK: Uh, it’s hard. You know me, Diania. I’m not (unintelligible word). DC: I doubt, I mean, you know—when you think about your greatest accomplishments, you lost one. LK: Well, my two sons, absolutely. My two grandchildren. I have two step grandsons now too . My son is remarried. I’m really proud of all of them. They’ve come so far. But in my working world, I think some of my greatest accomplishments were getting Teacher of the Year three times and being runner up for county Teacher of the Year. I came in second or something like that. That was very—I was really honored by that. And so, I’ve gotten a lot of awards for teaching. And so, I’m proud of that. What I’m learning to become proud of is my own artwork, believe it or not. I’m not one to brag or toot my own horn but I am progressing, and I am getting much more confident about creating my own art. DC: But do you have any plans still for your life, you know, in the future? I mean, you’ve gotten your business . Now you’re doing this. Do you see the plans, how it’s going to go into the future? I mean, how’s it going to broaden for you in helping you within in your, you know, I’d call it your second career, your third career. How do you feel about that in your life? LK: What are my hopes for that? What do I hope to achieve? DC: Mm-hmm. LK: Long range goal, I would love to create a website and be able to market things that I create like the curriculum. I would love to market the Mel and the Blue Arrow curriculum because I think it’s really good and solid. And I would love for teachers throughout the county to be able to use it, particularly in North County where the Luiseños—this is the traditional land—because that will further the education of the people that live here, of the people that were here prior to us. And learning how they lived and honoring them as a people instead of somebody that we just kind of pushed out of the way is what I feel like we did with the indigenous people. And then, possibly, I’m writing another book. It’s called The Adventure of Big Pig. It’s about a guinea pig and that’s in honor of my sister who is suffering from a fatal illness. And I hope to get that done before—And even if I have to self-publish that as well, I will, just so she can have that. And I’m really close with her. She lives in Colorado. So, this is a difficult time. But that’s in honor of her. So, things like that. I hope to further writing. I write an article a month for Indian Voices, thanks to your brother Mel. (Diania chuckles) And that’s been challenging but also uniquely fun. It’s fun on a different level. DC: What do you think—Not to wrap it up or anything but is there any regrets within your life or you could have changed something differently at any point, you know, in your life? I, you know, I don’t like asking that question, personally, because I don’t think people should have regrets. But some people can look at life differently, you know. And it’s hindsight, but you can’t change anything. But is there anything that you would probably feel that could have been better or you could have did something differently? LK: I don’t look at it as regrets. I look at the past mistakes that I made. I would have made—There are different things. I would have made different choices. But what I’ve learned, by the age of 69, is all of those mistakes and all of the experiences you go through is what brings you to where you are right now. And had you not gone through those trials and tribulations and the mistakes, you would be different. I would be different. So, I have a different philosophy about it now. I just think everything we go through in life is going to take us to a different place and change us in a way that we need to change. And I also have learned through yoga and meditation to be grateful for even the bad things because it’s an opportunity to learn and it’s an opportunity for growth. And that’s kind of how I view things, and I wake up feeling grateful and I go to sleep feeling grateful. And I think that’s a gift we give ourselves because when you’re grateful, you can go out in the world and share that gift with others. And so, I try to practice that daily. So, yes, mistakes, but we all make them. We’re only human. (Diania chuckles) What do you expect from us? (Both laugh) DC: Is there anything that you want to let the people know that, you know, when they do view this recording and you’re going to be put in an archive. And if a student comes by or another person comes by and wants to know who Linda Kallas was and what she had done, is there anything you want to share with that person or group in this interview right now. You did do a little bit now, but is there anything more you want to say to kind of wrap it up to where you feel why this was important to do? LK: Well, I think one thing would be never, never give up. Never quit on a dream or an aspiration. You’re never too old to try something new. Never. Unless you physically cannot do it, physically. But, you know, to always keep learning in any capacity you can. Pursue interests. Pursue what interests you because there’s so much out there to gain knowledge on. But never give up. Never quit. You can’t quit. I sure wanted to when my son died. But I didn’t and I’m glad I didn’t. And everything I do now is in honor of him and the love for him and the love we shared as mother/son because that does not die. The physical person goes away. But the love you share with another person never dies. DC: Well, thank you, Linda. I really enjoyed doing this and I enjoyed my friendship and everything. I hope it’s going to continue on. And so, we both have grown together and shared some things that I know you didn’t share with, you know. We’ve got De Loos. We’ve got different places I’ve taken you, regarding into the Indian world, or you want to say that on there. But I’m going to wrap it up and say “No $uun Looviq.” LK: No $uun Looviq. DC: No $uun Looviq. LK: Thank you so much, Diania. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs.
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Kallas, Linda. Interview December 22, 2022.
Description
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Oral history interview of Linda Kallas, December 22, 2022. Interview conducted by Diania L. Caudell. Linda Kallas is a retired middle school art and drama teacher who has collaborated with other local artists and authors on a variety of endeavors, including illustrating "Mel and the Blue Arrow" written by Mel Vernon (Luiseño). Kallas and Vernon also collaborated on a Luiseño/English coloring book and on an arts integrated curriculum taught at Pablo Tac Elementary School in Oceanside. Kallas is also on the committee for the Valley Arts Festival that celebrates Luiseño culture each November at Heritage Park, Oceanside. In her interview, Kallas talks to Diania Caudell about topics such as family, school, higher education, post-college life, and her various art and cultural projects.
Identifier
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SC027-051
Subject
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Arts education
Basket making
California State University San Marcos
Death and remembrance
Education -- Native Americans
Illustration of books
Luiseño Indians
Pablo Tac Elementary School (Oceanside, Calif.)
Valley Arts Festival (Oceanside, Calif.)
Women artists
Date
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2022-12-22
Format
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video
Creator
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Linda Kallas
Contributor
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Diania Caudell
Coverage
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Oceanside (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
Rights
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Linda Kallas
Art and artists
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/cdd8c927aef587b85a92b296a56ca6e7.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
LINDA KALLAS
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-12-22
DC: Good morning. My name is Diania Caudell and I’m, today, I’m interviewing Linda Kallas.
[Linda mouths her name quietly in repetition] And today’s date is December 22, 2022. I’m with
the North County Oral History Initiative. And it’s a class that we’re both been taking. And so,
this is my 2nd interview. And wish us luck here! [All three laugh.] Are you ready, Linda? Here
we go!
LK: I’m ready! [laughs and tosses her head back, then brushes her hair back]
DC: Okay. We’re going to be starting really simple and everything on that. That’s what they told
us to keep it going so to make sure that you’re going to be really at ease. And you can smile
when you want to, or whatever. So, let me know.
LK: Yeah.
DC: Uh, just when and where were you born?
LK: I was born in Norton, New Jersey in 1953. And we lived there ‘til I was three and then we
moved to California. After I was hit by a car—I have the dent to prove it right here— [rubs the
pointer finger of her left hand on a portion of her forehead] I was in traction for several weeks in
the hospital. And then my father had an opportunity to be in California for a new job. So, we
moved out here. My left leg was three inches shorter. I remember the limp. [paddles her hands in
front of her] I don’t remember the accident. I remember the hospital. But the limp—The leg grew
and caught up with the other leg. So—
DC: You want to tell me a little bit more about your family?
LK: Um, my dad was a drummer by profession. And then after he had three of us, three children,
and we moved to California, then my sister was born. And having four kids—and my mother
was only in her early twenties—they got married really young. He finally got a real job, working
as a plumber for a big—I think it was Hughes Aircraft. And then it was—we had a lot of turmoil
because of his affliction. He was an alcoholic. And mom was a stay-at-home mom. And then I
had two—she had two more boys. So, there were six kids in the family. And then they stayed
married ‘til I think I was seventeen. And then they divorced. And that was chaos too. But
anyway.
DC: Anyway. Okay. Would you like to speak of what school was like for you as a child?
LK: Well, we moved a lot. So, I went to like seven different elementary schools. We moved all
the time. And I have fond memories of elementary. That’s kind of my safe place to go to,
remembering good things. Like I had a teacher in third grade that read us The Secret Garden and
that sparked my love of reading. She would read to us every afternoon. And I just loved hearing
that story out loud, and then the library at the schools. The library was a safe zone for me. School
was my safe zone. And I think that’s why I furthered my education because it was something that
made me feel good. Learning, I loved learning. So, but, so there wasn’t really anything negative
at school for me, other than high school and the cliques and the—you know how that is. [Diania
chuckles] I stayed away from cliques. I was friends with everyone. I never fit in to one little
group. I just always was friends with everyone. So—
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Transcribed by Melissa Martin
�LINDA KALLAS
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-12-22
DC: On the activities when you were a child, I mean, what were you drawn to mostly, other than
the reading and the library wizard?
LK: Swimming, because we finally moved into a house with a pool. And I swam every day. That
was my—I just loved—to this day, I love to swim. Mom always tried to get me to be like a
cheerleader. She forced me to do—it was called “Darby Dolls” [makes air quotes with her
hands]. They were just pom-pom girls. [motions as if waving pom-poms] And I was in a parade
and I remember just being miserable. Just, that just was not me. Because I was a tomboy. I
wanted to do what the boys did, ride bikes. I wanted to have a paper route. Girls were not
allowed then to have paper routes. So, swimming was really one of the things I loved to do. And
I drew. I always loved to draw. My father also was a visual artist. And I remember watching him
paint murals on the wall. And it just seemed magical to me that he could tace this blank space
and all of a sudden there’s a bush there or a tree there. So, I think I learned my love of art
through him. And that was part of his recovery when he would sober up. That’s what he would
do. He would paint.
DC: Now, one of the things though, from high school, you went on to college? What—
LK: No.
DC: No?
LK: No. Not right out of high school. [shakes her head]
DC: Okay.
LK: No. I married my high school sweetheart. [Diania chuckles] Not married right away. We got
together in ’71 —’70 was our first date. And then I graduated in ’71. And then we moved in
together and we lived in Crestline, the mountains, for almost a year. But we were so dumb.
[Diania laughs] We’re southern California brats, right? We didn’t know anything about living in
the snow. So, I remember when we got our first electric bill and gas bill. And I went “You have
to pay for that???” I thought it just came with the house. [Diania chuckles] So, um, that was
quite the experience. And then we broke up for a year and I lived on my own, which was a really
important turning point. I became a medical assistant, and I learned that I could take care of
myself. I didn’t need to have another person to take care of me. And then we got back together.
And then we decided to get married five years later and start a family. So, we have two sons.
And that was it! Two boys. That was enough. [both laugh]
DC: So, when did you decide to actually go back to school?
LK: Not ‘til after the birth of my first son. You know, a lot of things came natural to me, coming
from a big family and being the oldest girl. I had to tace care of the younger siblings most of the
time. So, the baby stage, and nursing them, and all that stuff came really natural. But when they
became—when Josh became a toddler, I was like “Now what do you do with them?” You know,
I’d play with them, and I wanted to learn more about child development. That’s what sparked me
to go back to school. So, I got an AA in Early Childhood Education. And then I changed fields
and worked in that field for years, through my second son too. And then, even when we moved
here from L.A., I was a director of a crisis day care center, Casa de Emparo. So, that AA degree
2
Transcribed by Melissa Martin
�LINDA KALLAS
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-12-22
served me really well. I was able to make a living doing it. But then, there’s only—you couldn’t
go any further than being a director unless I wanted to become a teacher of it. So, then I started
helping out at the elementary schools with my boys. And I really loved that. And so, that’s what
sparked me further and to get a teaching credential and then wind up teaching for almost twenty
years and got a master’s degree in education, so— And I taught Art and Drama at the middle
school level. And that was really, really fun.
DC: So, did you go to a local college when you were down here?
LK: I went to—I got my AA in L.A. at El Camino College. And then when we moved here, I’d
gotten my BA—well, I have two BAs at Cal State San Marcos. And the master’s degree—I call
it my drive-through. I shouldn’t say this. My drive-through master’s is through National
University.
DC: So, you were alone out here, right from Cal State San Marcos?
LK: Yep. Mm-hmm. I am.
DC: Yeah. Good for you. Okay. So, you’re one of the originals that were here on the campus.
LK: Yes.
DC: It was pretty small. Was it small?
LK: Before the campus, they were in the Jerome Shopping Center. That’s where I took my first
classes. And I got the teaching credential through Cal State San Marcos as well. It took me a
really, really long time because I did everything part-time. I still worked, had the kids, and then
did schooling part-time. So, I was 44 before I ever stepped foot in my own classroom.
DC: And then after that, you did it for how many years?
LK: Almost 18. I was at Jefferson Middle School for almost 18 years.
DC: And Jefferson is located where?
LK: It’s Oceanside Unified School District. It’s in the older part of Oceanside.
DC: And so, up to today you’re still with education in some forms.
LK: Yes. I started volunteering at the library, the Oceanside Public Library at the Literacy
Center. And I really loved doing that. And then I went to the Mission branch library and got with
Jenna Lease. And we created the Art for Older Adult program. And that’s at the senior center in
El Corazon. And next year, we’ll be at both senior centers. I also write curriculum which, Mel,
my interviewee’s brother [Diania chuckles], he wrote a book called Mel and the Blue Arrow and
asked me to illustrate it. So, I did. And so, we’ve been selling that. And then we approached
Pablo Tac Elementary School. They recently changed the name to that. And he—I proposed this
curriculum based on Mel and the Blue Arrow. And then, with Diania, I put together a coloring
book. Diania helped me with the translation. It’s in Luiseño and English. And that’s been very
successful. So, the students will get Mel and the Blue Arrow and the coloring book. So, we start
teaching there in February.
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DC: Twenty?
LK: 2023.
DC: 2023. Okay, when—for me, you know, and in it, being able to interview you, I mean it’s an
honor to be with you and learn from you. But some of the questions on here, you know, you’ve
been in this region here in Southern California, not just L.A., but down here in San Diego
County for how long?
LK: Since 1989.
DC: So, 1989. So, you’ve seen changes that have affected where you’re living at or in the area.
Are any of them for you positive, that you’ve enjoyed watching the change? Or is it some things
that are coming through that are—feel like the region is getting too crowded? Or how do you feel
about it?
LK: It’s so different than when we moved down. Part of the attraction to this, to Oceanside was
we lived in a condominium that overlooked the Mission. But that was all fields and there was
farmland. And you would walk across the street and buy fresh pumpkins. There was a farm
stand. We could walk to the river and float on the river. We can’t do any of that anymore.
There’s buildings, buildings. The 76, we moved here before the 76 was completed. And they
kept saying “Oh, they’ll never build it. It’s been on the books for years.” Well, they built it. And
it was literally—you could throw a stone from our condo. The noise level was unbearable. That’s
what prompted us to move to, now we live in a senior community, which is very quiet [Diania
laughs] which we really like. And the streets are really wide. [both laugh} The neighbors are
really nice. And so, we kind of found our niche there.
DC: So, do you have favorite places in the community there in Oceanside or around the
surrounding areas?
LK: Well, my husband’s a surfer so we love the beach. We go to the harbor quite often to visit
the bench of our youngest son. Did you want me to talk about that?
DC: It’s up to you.
LK: Our youngest son, twelve years ago, was killed in a car accident. And so, we placed a bench
at the harbor, right across from the boat launch, in his memory. So, we go there quite often and
sit on the bench and talk to Jake. I love a lot of the area there. I love Heritage Park. I love Ivy
Ranch Parks. We love parks. Hohomi Park. All the parks we frequent quite often. I enjoy going
to the Mission just because of the grounds more than anything. I feel like I’m walking in history
when I go there. Having learned what I’ve learned about the Luiseños, it’s a way of honoring the
memory of the Luiseños there on that land. It’s sacred land but not sacred because the mission is
there. It’s sacred land because there was a village there. And I’ve learned a lot and learned to
appreciate history in that way.
DC: Well, one of the things that I think I’ve heard you talk about that’s unique is—okay, talk
about when you go to the bakery, San Luis Rey Bakery. What was happening there when you
first was going through there.
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2022-12-22
LK: Oh. The bakery. [Diania laughs] After Jake died in 2010, the anguish was unbelievable. I’ve
never experienced anything like that before or since. And I’ve been through a lot being raised the
way I was raised. But that was just—that was like a part of my soul was taken and my identity.
All of a sudden, I was searching online all the time for things to get my head on, out of the place
it was in, and all of a sudden, this announcement popped up of a flute circle at the San Luis Rey
Bakery. And I went [opens her mouth wide as if in awe] “Jim, we’re going to go to that.” [Diania
chuckles] So, we went. It was about, not maybe a year later, I think. And Mel is the one that
started that. And so, we started going faithfully every month. And little by little just the healing
of that sound and the camaraderie of the people, and the friend—They were so friendly.
Everybody was just so warm and friendly, and we just kind of felt like we fit there. And so, we
went until— It wasn’t Covid hit, really. But through that, I became friends with Mel. That’s
where we started talking about the book. And I became friends with Diania and other people,
Marge and Rob, and the people that frequent the flute circle. And it just was—had a really, really
positive influence on me.
DC: Did you try to play the flute?
LK: I have a flute and I do have one little tune I keep working on.
DC: You should have brought it! [Linda laughs] We could have played it. Now, I’m going to get
you to play the flute.
LK: It’s not for public consumption. [both laugh] I probably wouldn’t be able to hit one note.
[motions with her hands as if pressing on a flute]
DC: Yeah. With the, you know, living there in the valley and seeing the different changes. You
know, like you just talked about, and the flute circle is not there anymore. It’s not that they don’t
want it. It’s just that the capacity and the people have gone on to other things.
LK: Mm-hmm. [nods her head]
DC: There is a unique area right next door also that you’re involved in. You want to talk about
that a little bit?
LK: Are you talking about the Miramid Museum?
DC: Yes. Yes.
LK: With Joanne Tawfilis? Um, yes. Joanne is a muralist. And she does murals for any occasion.
But she usually honors, I guess, tragic events. So, if some kind of tragedy happens, she paints a
mural. And then, she sends it to that place. The most recent was Uvalde in Texas when that crazy
person shot all those children. But I help her with murals. She does other unique things as well.
But murals seem to be her niche in life. And she’s also in the UNESCO Peace Center there. And
one of these days we’ll have a grand opening, when the landlord signs off on it [motions as if
signing something with her right hand] And she does different events there, like her partner is a
drummer, so they do African drumming every Saturday. And she’ll have events there to honor
things that are going on, like she just did her birthday event. That was quite unique.
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2022-12-22
DC: I know that other things that you work with the community, you know, not just like the
Miramid, but I’d like you to stress your art, involvement really with the art. It’s unique, you
know, I think. So, you’ve shared other things that I wasn’t aware of, you know. And I think
that’s unique for us to learn. But can you specify what you do there at the centers there in
Oceanside with the—
LK: Are you thinking of Studio Ace?
DC: No, no. The one down in Oceanside by the library? What’s that center?
LK: Oh, the Literacy Center.
DC: Yes! Yes.
LK: The Literacy Center, I work with developmentally disabled adults. We started a Read-andDraw Program. So, I did a whole year of character education with them. So, I would bring in
posters where they were learning art literacy, visual literacy as well. But each poster had to do
with a character trait, for example, like compassion, or caring, or integrity. So, they got a
different character trait that they learned. And then we would involve poetry. So, we would write
poems. They would do a little drawing lesson and learn to talk about art. And they learned a lot.
And so, we’re going to continue that next year. We’re changing the name to, which I really like,
“Language Artist.” So, they’ll get—and it’s going to be based on the LeBrons art. He’s an
abstract expressionist artist. And so, we’ll look at his art and then I’ll teach them a lesson. And
then, they’ll write something. So, it’s all about literacy. And then, also, I’ve been involved with
Studio Ace since its inception. I’ve been Julia’s advisor, consultant, whatever you want to call it.
I set up programs for her at Laurel Elementary. And before Pablo Tac was Pablo Tac, it was San
Luis Rey Elementary. So, two schools I wrote curriculum for, trained two teachers and then they
took over. But, after that, I just would kind of consult with her, and we created some classes
together for the library. And then I transferred from working with her to working with the library
directly.
DC: So, there’s going to be some changes in your life soon. But how has your life’s path evolved
and changed over the years?
LK: I think since I’ve retired, when you teach art or drama for that matter, the last thing you
want to do when you go home is more of it because you’re so involved with it all day, seven and
a half hours a day. So, that part of my life has really increased as far as my drawing, and doing
art on my own, just for myself. But now, I want to tace that venture a little further and I’m going
to—well, I’ve opened my own business. And so, I’m still going to be offering all the same things
I offer right now—workshops, art lessons, curriculum, whatever people need, healing arts. I have
a whole repertoire of stuff that I can offer. But it will be under the title of “Floating Hearts
Connections.” And even that has meaning to it. Floating hearts is actually an aquatic plant, and
the leaves are shaped like a heart and then this little yellow flower comes up. And it has five
petals. And that has meaning to me because I told you before, I love to swim. Well, when I’m
done swimming, my favorite thing to do is to float. And so, with that in mind, I was looking for
names and talked with my husband, talked with you, talked with Mel. And they said—all of you
said I have to include something heart felt because that’s what I do. I collaborate with people and
provide healing through the arts. And so, when I found that, I went “Oh my gosh! Heart, floating,
6
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2022-12-22
arts” and then the connections that I make. And floating is an acronym also for the love of hearts
in teaching. So, it all just kind of fits it. And so, I have a little logo that I’m working on, and I
have the business license. And I’ve got the insurance. I’m a vendor with the city of Oceanside
now. So, eventually I’ll do a website and have like business cards. I’ll be all official. [Diania
chuckles] So, I can go anywhere and do it. I don’t have to just stay in Oceanside.
DC: Are you going to, at some point, be part of that art—is it the art walk, or whatever it is there
in Oceanside with a booth or anything showing—
LK: Oh. (sighs)
DC: —what you’re going to be doing?
LK: I hadn’t thought about doing that.
DC: Yeah.
LK: Maybe. I don’t know. It’s on my favorite—
DC: Floating hearts. I can see it already, you know. I picture it, you know, on your canopy and
the whole thing.
LK: Well, Diania, to tell you the truth, I hadn’t considered it. [Diania laughs] But I do reach out
to the organizations. Like I did a mural for Ivy Ranch Horse Park. And that was successful. And
then Preserve Calavera, I did one. So, I do reach out to other organizations. But I hadn’t thought
about doing it monthly at Art Walk. But I will consider it.
DC: And once you get your logo going.
LK: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the stuff I do is volunteer.
DC: Oh, yes. Yes.
LK: So, that I think you have to pay. I’m not sure. But I can find out. I may have to pay for a
table to do that. But I don’t know.
DC: [chuckles] We’ve got some more things in there.
LK: [coughs] Excuse me.
DC: Some of these questions that I’m reading for this class and things, you know, I can talk
more, and it depends on how personal you want to, you know, get into there.
LK: Mm-hmm.
DC: Like is there any mentors that you had through your life that have gotten you, you know,
from one stage to another? You know, you can go back on— I look at it, you can go back on
your life and, you know, from your childhood and, you know, the turmoil at one point. And you
must have had some type of mentor. You did mention a teacher, you know, at that point.
LK: Mm-hmm.
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DC: And then, almost everyone had some type in their stage that they don’t realize. There’s that
mentor or that one person that it made a difference, either by saying something or doing
something. Is there any mentor that you feel has helped you throughout your life?
LK: That encouraged—
DC: That encouraged you, that have gotten you to where you’re at today, and you want to speak
about them or just mention them, you know, there, and how they helped you at each different
phase in your life.
LK: Well, dad was probably my first inspiration. Like I said, it was magical to watch him paint.
Mom discouraged it. She didn’t—I guess she was worried that I was going to tace a path of no
return or something. But she always wanted me to become a professional person. And it was
interesting. We had a conversation on the phone one time. She said, “I always thought you’d be
this professional businesswoman.” And I started laughing. And she’s all, “What’s so funny?” I
said, “I am a professional, mom. I’m a teacher.” She goes, “Oh, not that kind of profession.”
Like it was—she kind of thought of it as babysitting, I guess, in her own mind. She never looked
at teaching as a profession. So, I think that got my dander up even more as far as “Well, I’ll show
you.” But then, in college, I had many professors. Deborah Small was one of them, Eureli
Arizmendi, many professors that saw talent and encouraged it in me, gave me more confidence,
especially with theater. Eureli is a professional actress, and she was the professor there at Cal
State San Marcos for a while. Her classes were fantastic, and I had a starring role in one of the
plays we performed around the city. But Deborah Small, she kind of ventured off into computer
art, which I found was not my niche. I preferred drawing. I’m a drawer. I don’t consider myself a
painter. I draw everything. I can paint, and I can use color. But there’s something about a pencil
and paper I love. So, there were colleagues, principals that I worked with that saw in me things
that I didn’t know I had. But, most recently, it’s been people like you, Diania, and Mel in
particular, Joanne, my husband, my son. My grandkids, Ty and Katie, are very important
influencers in my life. And they’re like my biggest fans, so a lot of family. But a lot of—I think
the friends I have now are the closest friends that, compared to past friends when I was younger,
it’s different making friends at this age. It’s a much deeper level or something. It’s not superficial
at all. So, I thank all of you for that. But I think the one who has pushed me the hardest has been
your brother.
DC: (laughs. Linda nods her head.) Well, he’s, to me—I’m just going to let you know—this was
the interview going back and forth, and we’re talking here—is that he sees something in you, and
he connect. And I think it’s the—you both are talented artists. He’s in the music field.
LK: Mm-hmm.
DC: And you show at your artwork, you know. You can express it through art. He expresses
himself through music.
LK: Yes.
DC: And I think the two of you make a good compare because you bounce off each other, like
brother and sister. It’s, you know, on that.
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2022-12-22
LK: Mm-hmm.
DC: It’s not like, you know, husband and wife. It’s more like a brother and sister type of thing.
LK: Yeah. Yeah.
DC: And you’re, you know—it’s good. And you can speak freely to each other, and it’s good. I
think I’ve seen the growth in both of you on that. There’s other things that you have joined us
with, you know, but you don’t mention it. You want to say another type of artwork that you try
to get into (laughs).
LK: Yeah, absolutely. But that’s only through you trusting me and seeing something in me that I
didn’t know there either. Like basketry has been phenomenal. I just—I love it! And I love the
process. I love watching the people do it. I enjoy helping you, and just the joy it brings people to
put together a basket. You don’t think about that as being something people will be drawn to.
But they are. And they’re just kind of one with their basket as they’re creating it, and the joy that
is coming from them and the healing. Because like I tell my students, when you’re doing art, any
kind of art, it’s just you and that piece. Whatever it is you’re working on, your mind is still
going, and the problems are still there. But it takes a back seat because you are so focused on
what you’re creating. And that’s where the healing begins, is—And basketry is like that.
Something about going over, under, over, under (laughs) and getting it right, getting the tension
right. It’s so important. It’s just really—The other thing that we’re involved in is the Valley Arts
Festival which is—Julia started—well, she got a grant. And when she got the grant, she wanted
to know what we should focus on. And her and I had talked about different cultures for many
years. We wanted to do these things. And so, I mentioned the Luiseños because I’ve become
close with you and Mel. And so, I introduced Mel to her and you to her, I think. And that’s
where it went. We just started meeting and planning the Valley Arts Festival which is—We just
did our second one, and it was a huge success. And so, hopefully, that’s going to continue every
year whether she gets that grant or not. We need to continue it because we’re educating the
community about just acknowledging the fact that the Luiseños were here ten or twelve thousand
years before the encroachment of the white people. (both laugh)
DC: It should be that way. But when are you going to go? I knew you’d say something about the
basketry, you know. But that’s not the Luiseño. That’s not our traditional. That’s more the
Cherokee style. What do you feel about learning when you have to sit down and you’re weaving
with us, with traditional?
LK: That is a challenge because the materials are so—You’re very precise about what materials
are used for what part. And it took me a long time to learn even the names, the juncus, the—wait
a minute. I’ll get it in a minute.
DC: (whispers something) Yucca.
LK: Yucca! (both laugh) That is the one I always forget! Always. But what you use for what part
of the basket. And the starting is difficult, but I find the weaving, getting it precise and even and
even the width of it. Like I have to take it out because the one I started is—I went too thick too
soon. But the beauty of it and using the natural materials, there’s something about manipulating
that natural material. But what I focus on when I’m working with you, I think this is what they
9
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2022-12-22
did. They had time to do this, like and it was important because they used—They were functional
art. They used the baskets for everyday things. And our culture, we just go and buy what we
need. We didn’t have to worry about sitting and making something that could hold berries or
hold whatever it was you were going to gather. It’s fascinating to me to be able to learn to do
that. Because you can buy a kit and do a little basket online, you know, buy a kit online and do a
basket. But to do it from the natural materials—Because you have permission to go and gather
that material, the real thing, authentic. I guess that’s what it is. It’s the authenticity of it. That’s
what’s so wonderful about it.
DC: On some of the bigger picture here, what do you think some of your greatest
accomplishments are, you know, up to this point in your life? What do you feel?
LK: Uh, it’s hard. You know me, Diania. I’m not (unintelligible word).
DC: I doubt, I mean, you know—when you think about your greatest accomplishments, you lost
one.
LK: Well, my two sons, absolutely. My two grandchildren. I have two step grandsons now too.
My son is remarried. I’m really proud of all of them. They’ve come so far. But in my working
world, I think some of my greatest accomplishments were getting Teacher of the Year three
times and being runner up for county Teacher of the Year. I came in second or something like
that. That was very—I was really honored by that. And so, I’ve gotten a lot of awards for
teaching. And so, I’m proud of that. What I’m learning to become proud of is my own artwork,
believe it or not. I’m not one to brag or toot my own horn but I am progressing, and I am getting
much more confident about creating my own art.
DC: But do you have any plans still for your life, you know, in the future? I mean, you’ve gotten
your business. Now you’re doing this. Do you see the plans, how it’s going to go into the future?
I mean, how’s it going to broaden for you in helping you within in your, you know, I’d call it
your second career, your third career. How do you feel about that in your life?
LK: What are my hopes for that? What do I hope to achieve?
DC: Mm-hmm.
LK: Long range goal, I would love to create a website and be able to market things that I create
like the curriculum. I would love to market the Mel and the Blue Arrow curriculum because I
think it’s really good and solid. And I would love for teachers throughout the county to be able to
use it, particularly in North County where the Luiseños—this is the traditional land—because
that will further the education of the people that live here, of the people that were here prior to
us. And learning how they lived and honoring them as a people instead of somebody that we just
kind of pushed out of the way is what I feel like we did with the indigenous people. And then,
possibly, I’m writing another book. It’s called The Adventure of Big Pig. It’s about a guinea pig
and that’s in honor of my sister who is suffering from a fatal illness. And I hope to get that done
before—And even if I have to self-publish that as well, I will, just so she can have that. And I’m
really close with her. She lives in Colorado. So, this is a difficult time. But that’s in honor of her.
So, things like that. I hope to further writing. I write an article a month for Indian Voices, thanks
10
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�LINDA KALLAS
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2022-12-22
to your brother Mel. [Diania chuckles] And that’s been challenging but also uniquely fun. It’s
fun on a different level.
DC: What do you think—Not to wrap it up or anything but is there any regrets within your life or
you could have changed something differently at any point, you know, in your life? I, you know,
I don’t like asking that question, personally, because I don’t think people should have regrets.
But some people can look at life differently, you know. And it’s hindsight, but you can’t change
anything. But is there anything that you would probably feel that could have been better or you
could have did something differently?
LK: I don’t look at it as regrets. I look at the past mistakes that I made. I would have made—
There are different things. I would have made different choices. But what I’ve learned, by the
age of 69, is all of those mistakes and all of the experiences you go through is what brings you to
where you are right now. And had you not gone through those trials and tribulations and the
mistakes, you would be different. I would be different. So, I have a different philosophy about it
now. I just think everything we go through in life is going to take us to a different place and
change us in a way that we need to change. And I also have learned through yoga and meditation
to be grateful for even the bad things because it’s an opportunity to learn and it’s an opportunity
for growth. And that’s kind of how I view things, and I wake up feeling grateful and I go to sleep
feeling grateful. And I think that’s a gift we give ourselves because when you’re grateful, you
can go out in the world and share that gift with others. And so, I try to practice that daily. So,
yes, mistakes, but we all make them. We’re only human. [Diania chuckles] What do you expect
from us? [Both laugh]
DC: Is there anything that you want to let the people know that, you know, when they do view
this recording and you’re going to be put in an archive. And if a student comes by or another
person comes by and wants to know who Linda Kallas was and what she had done, is there
anything you want to share with that person or group in this interview right now. You did do a
little bit now, but is there anything more you want to say to kind of wrap it up to where you feel
why this was important to do?
LK: Well, I think one thing would be never, never give up. Never quit on a dream or an
aspiration. You’re never too old to try something new. Never. Unless you physically cannot do
it, physically. But, you know, to always keep learning in any capacity you can. Pursue interests.
Pursue what interests you because there’s so much out there to gain knowledge on. But never
give up. Never quit. You can’t quit. I sure wanted to when my son died. But I didn’t and I’m glad
I didn’t. And everything I do now is in honor of him and the love for him and the love we shared
as mother/son because that does not die. The physical person goes away. But the love you share
with another person never dies.
DC: Well, thank you, Linda. I really enjoyed doing this and I enjoyed my friendship and
everything. I hope it’s going to continue on. And so, we both have grown together and shared
some things that I know you didn’t share with, you know. We’ve got De Loos. We’ve got
different places I’ve taken you, regarding into the Indian world, or you want to say that on there.
But I’m going to wrap it up and say “Noh, shalovik.”
LK: Noh, shalovik.
11
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�LINDA KALLAS
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DC: Noh, shalovik.
LK: Thank you so much, Diania.
12
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�
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Kallas, Linda. Interview transcript, December 22, 2022.
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript of oral history interview of Linda Kallas, December 22, 2022. Interview conducted by Diania L. Caudell. Linda Kallas is a retired middle school art and drama teacher who has collaborated with other local artists and authors on a variety of endeavors, including illustrating "Mel and the Blue Arrow" written by Mel Vernon (Luiseño). Kallas and Vernon also collaborated on a Luiseño/English coloring book and on an arts integrated curriculum taught at Pablo Tac Elementary School in Oceanside. Kallas is also on the committee for the Valley Arts Festival that celebrates Luiseño culture each November at Heritage Park, Oceanside. In her interview, Kallas talks to Diania Caudell about topics such as family, school, higher education, post-college life, and her various art and cultural projects.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Linda Kallas
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Diania Caudell
Melissa Martin
Date
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2022-12-22
Subject
The topic of the resource
Arts education
Basket making
California State University San Marcos
Death and remembrance
Education -- Native Americans
Illustration of books
Luiseño Indians
Pablo Tac Elementary School (Oceanside, Calif.)
Valley Arts Festival (Oceanside, Calif.)
Women artists
Coverage
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Oceanside (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
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Linda Kallas
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KallasLinda_CaudellDiania_2022-12-22_transcript
Art and artists
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North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
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Jennifer Ho
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Randy Kim
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community;immigration;Vietnam;Khmer Rouge;identity
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6.0 Kim, Randy. Interview April 22nd, 2023. SC027-105 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible with generous funding from the CSUSM Faculty Center's Professional Development Grant. csusm community ; immigration ; Vietnam ; Khmer Rouge ; identity Randy Kim Jennifer Ho moving image KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/5b6cb7b7873b8aa283eabee6bee52d64.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Oral history interview of Randy Kim, April 22, 2023, by Jennifer Ho. 0 24 Family immigration and long-term effects Randy talks about his family, including his parents’ immigration stories and how they met, as well as what he knows of their early years in the United States. He speaks on the effect his parents’ struggles had on his own childhood. Lisle, Illinois ; Kuala Lumpur ; Amy M. Le ; political escape ; effects of war ; University of Illinois at Chicago ; Cambodia ; Vietnam ; Lockformer 0 1069 School years and influential adults In this segment, Randy talks about his personality as a child and how he navigated school, including the adults who had a positive effect on him. childhood ; isolation ; Mariah Carey ; Madonna ; Janet Jackson ; Smashing Pumpkins ; Red Hot Chili Peppers ; B-96 ; Sharon Nilan ; Roxanne Gaul ; Jean Hodek ; St. Paul, MN ; South Korea 0 1764 Language loss, communication and parental relationships Randy reflects on how his inability to speak Vietnamese or Khmer has had an effect on his relationships with the Vietnamese and Cambodian communities, and how this has changed through the years, partially due to his years he spent in Korea as an adult. He also speaks on his relationship with his parents. Vietnamese ; Khmer ; community expectations ; parental relationships ; Crying in H Mart ; Westmont (Chicago) ; Rogers Park (Chicago) ; Asia on Argyle ; Viet Hoa ; Tai Nam ; Ba Le ; i2i ; South Korea ; Tony Huynh 0 2822 Coming out Randy talks about when and how he came out as a gay man. coming out ; Ma and Me by Putsata Reang 0 3259 Queer Asian-American community, being seen Randy talks about his distant relationship with his parents. He then speaks on the queer Asian-American community and his friends in the community. He talks about how he would like to be seen. Kenneth Nguyen ; Nebula Li ; Lyk Yoeun ; Joy Messinger 0 3775 Banh Mi Chronicles Randy talks about why he started this podcast, his most memorable guests, and his plans for the future. Vietnamese Boat People podcast ; Self-Evident ; Asian-American Stories ; the Gay Asian Podcast ; Queer Asian Social Club ; Asian-American community ; activism ; Etzkorn Wong ; i2i ; Asian Americans Advancing Justice ; Chicago ; Christian Hall ; Nguyen Phan Que Mai ; Dust Child ; Cambodians in Vietnam ; Nhu Lan ; breaking bread ; banh mi ; BIPOC and LGBTQIA communities 0 4754 What does it mean to be Vietnamese American? Randy reflects on the question: What does it mean to you to be a Vietnamese American person? Vietnamese ; Cambodian ; identity 0 4902 Relationship with the Black community and reflections on present-day refugees Randy speaks on Asian and Black solidarity and its role in dismantling white supremacy. He also reflects on current refugee and asylum speakers. Black ; Blasian ; white supremacy ; Black and Asian Alliance Network ; Akemi Kochiyama ; Yuri Kochiyama ; Grace Lee Boggs ; Black Lives Matter ; Vincent Chin ; Jesse Jackson ; Rainbow Push Coalition ; Helen Zia ; AAPI ; Malcolm X ; Martin Luther King ; Thich Nhat Hanh ; Vietnam War ; Afghanistan ; Ukraine ; U.S./Mexico border 0 5454 Evolution of culture, nostalgia, grad school Randy thinks about the ways in which culture either stays intact or evolves with each generation. He also shares some of his favorite businesses in Chicago that have since closed. He then talks about his recent graduation from DePaul University and his current work. Tuan Huynh ; VietFive ; Trung Tin ; First Sip ; DePaul University ; nonprofit management ; YWCA Lisa Dietlin 0 5931 Cambodian and Vietnamese community Randy talks about his time on the board of the Cambodian Museum, as well as what his father did for 7,500 Cambodian refugees. He talks about the ways he is proud of his community and family, and why he appreciates himself and his own journey. National Cambodian Heritage Museum ; Khmer Rouge ; U.S. Embassy of Thailand 0 Oral history Randy Kim is a speaker, storyteller, podcaster and non-profit professional based in Chicago. In this interview, he talks about his life experiences as a queer Vietnamese-Khmer American, including his childhood, background, and creative work. Randy also speaks on his relationship with his family members and the people he has met who have impacted his life for the better.
 ; NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:17.000 Okay, today is April 22nd, 2023. I’m Jennifer Ho, interviewing Randy Kim for Children of Refugees, the Vietnamese American Oral History Project. We are in Chicago, Illinois and it is 2 o’clock. Thanks for being here, Randy. How are you? 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.000 Thank you. I’m doing wonderful. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:24.000 Good. All right. Let’s start from the beginning. Tell me when and where you were born. 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:30.000 So, I was born on (redacted) 1983. I was born in Lisle, Illinois. So, I was the first one born in the U.S. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.000 Oh, okay, great. Do you have siblings? 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:39.000 I do. I do have two younger brothers. They’re twins. And they were born in February 15th, 1986. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.000 Okay. Also in Lisle? 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.000 Yes. That is correct. 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.000 Okay, cool. Tell me about your family and the people who raised you. 00:00:46.000 --> 00:01:33.000 So, my parents came to the U.S. separately. They met in the U.S. My father escaped from Cambodia after the Khmer Rouge genocide, and he also had stayed over in Thailand in a refugee camp for a little bit and actually had worked on the refugee resettlement assistance with a lot of the survivors, many of the survivors of the Khmer Rouge. And for my mom, her family came to United States escaping out of Việt Nam (Vietnam) by boat. And they were living in Malaysia for a couple of years. So, I was–I was the first one born as a result of them meeting up in America. And so, yes. I don’t know if there’s any specific probing questions that you’re interested in about the way they raised me. 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.000 Maybe. But before we get to that, can I ask how they met? 00:01:37.000 --> 00:02:00.000 Um, I believe it was my mom’s father, which is my grandfather. And my grandfather and my dad worked together at a metal welding company. And so, my dad struck up a friendship with my grandfather. And so, my grandfather introduced my mom to my dad. So, that’s how they began. Yeah. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.000 Do you know how soon they got married after they met? 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:13.000 Um, not very long. I think it was a lot sooner. I gotta say it was less than a year. Because I think they got married in 1982. And I was born in ’83. 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:18.000 Okay. Okay. And where was this metal welding shop? 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:28.000 The metal welding company is in Lisle–Lisle, Illinois. And that’s actually—It was known as—It was called Lockformer. It’s a huge–It was a huge company at the time. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.000 Lockform? 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:47.000 Lockformer. Yeah. Lockformer. It’s L-O-C-K-F-O-R-M-E-R. So, yeah. This was a company he would be working for for thirty years until the plant shut down and moved to another state. 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.000 Okay. You told me how your dad came here. What about your mom? 00:02:51.000 --> 00:03:56.000 My mom’s family escaped by boat from Vietnam. They escaped overnight. I think my understanding was that since my grandfather was like in a position with the Vietnamese Army. I don’t know what ranking he was, but he was in the South Vietnamese Army. And so, that definitely made him a target. My uncle, who was my uncle by my—through marriage via my aunt, was in prison. He was in a reeducation camp for a number of years. So, I think that actually started to alarm the family that they needed to escape. So, they bribed someone and they left overnight when there was like a town hall meeting, I believe. I don’t remember the full, accurate picture, but that’s what led them to escape. And they would end up leaving into—landing into Malaysia. Kuala Lumpur is where they were at. And they were there for about three years until 1981, which is when they migrated to Illinois. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:00.000 Okay. What have your parents said about their trip? 00:04:00.000 --> 00:07:37.000 Um, you know, both of their journeys are so very different. I think for my dad it’s a very difficult topic for him to talk about because his escape out of Cambodia was deeply, deeply traumatic. You know, there was so much that he saw on his journey. I think when you go through this–this chaos, this indescribable chaos, you—or for my father, in this case, it’s like–it’s hard for him to talk about it unless he’s triggered. And when he’s triggered, that could come by when I’m arguing with him. Then that’s–that starts to come out in a very difficult way. And I–and I’ve had this conversation with him before, several years ago. And it was hard. I think it was a hard conversation and what he could share was that he talked about how it would take him days and nights to get through it. And how he came along with his friends who—or people that he met along the way. And then they escaped together. It was—I can’t remember—it was four or five men that he escaped with. But like they were basically walking through the nights in the jungle and staying set during the daytime because, you know, you don’t want to get caught. And there were land mines and there was just a lot of—It was very treacherous. And I think that they—My dad used to tell me the story that there was a snake that—And you know the interesting thing about that snake was that my dad was born in the year of the snake. So, I think it holds some significance. That snake was in his direction. And so, I think that prompted him to like go into a different direction where it would lead him into where he needed to escape to. Because for a while they were going into the same path, you know. They were walking and, you know, actually not advancing because they did not know where they were going. So, I think he would credit the snake for actually guiding him in that weird direc–in that direction. You know, for my mom I would say that there was not much of a description of what it was like in the boat, except that there were–it was very stormy. It was very turbulent. They were very worried about pirates which were very common, you know, from what I’ve been told. But it was a very dangerous path, and I don’t know if their boat was robbed. Because the reason why I bring this up is because I wrote–I read a book called Snow in Vietnam which is done by my friend Amy M. Lê (Amy M. Le), and she talked about how many of these–many of the boat people were robbed or harassed or assaulted. And I wondered if my mom and my aunt were assaulted at one point too, you know. So, I kind of wonder how deep and traumatic that journey was. And it’s a question that I don’t think I could ever ask because I don’t know if I could handle the answer to something like that. But I will say that the journey itself was very treacherous for them. And yeah. I think my mom was about in her early twenties. My dad was in his early twenties, too. So, certainly their–them entering into their twenties was a very turbulent time. 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:50.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I’m sure it was. Was there anyone else around when you were growing up? You had mom and dad. Any grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins? 00:07:50.000 --> 00:09:01.000 Good question. Let’s see. So, my mom’s side of the family was in Illinois for a very brief time and then they eventually moved down to Alabama because it was a big–there was a big seafood industry that was very attractive to a lot of southeast Asians. Some of my family members went to—or my aunt actually moved up to Boston with her husband, my uncle that is. And so, yeah. We did not have many family members in Illinois. So, when my parents couldn’t raise me, they actually had me raised with a babysitter who was from Peru. She was a Peruvian grandmother, you know, and, you know, very loving person. But she actually took me in while my parents were working. And so, I learned how to speak Spanish at a very young age which I really can’t do anymore. But that was the craziness of having every language thrown at you: English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Khmer. So, there was a lot going on, I think. But yeah. I did not have much of a family presence outside of my parents. 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:09.000 Okay. You mentioned your dad came over here, or he escaped from Cambodia with a few other men. What about his family back there? 00:09:09.000 --> 00:10:30.000 You know, his family—Like my dad’s side of the family actually lived in the southern part of Vietnam. And so, they escaped separately. And so, they ended up moving down to Florida. But yeah. It–yeah. Their escape was also traumatic, too. I mean there was—you know, being in Thai refugee camps where they landed was not a very pleasant experience, you know. Some of my cousins who went through the Vietnam war during that time, you know, they experienced some very traumatic experiences, you know, dead soldiers lying on the pathway to, you know, being mistaken for being Vietnamese because the Cambodians were, during the Khmer Rouge genocide, were coming into Vietnam, trying to reclaim part of their land back. Because that was part of Cambodia, below the Mekong Delta. And so, they had to very careful about that, even though their identity is ethnically Cambodian. There was confusion of who’s who. Are you Vietnamese or are you Cambodian? And so, that was also the danger that my dad’s family experienced. 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:36.000 Have you been in touch with any of the family who escaped from Vietnam on–from your dad’s side? 00:10:36.000 --> 00:11:17.000 Um, not very often, not very often. I do have an uncle, you know. I’ve been remembering that story, you know. I think that was a very challenging experience, to know what it was like to be in a Thai refugee camp. My aunt, his then-wife who, had passed on, my aunt, she went through a lot, you know, being in that Thai refugee camp, and just having experienced a lot of, you know, abuses there. And my cousins, they’re—my older cousins, they’re in their fifties now. And so, they have some vivid memories of it, and that was not very pleasant. 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:38.000 Mm-hmm. Do you feel like you—I mean you were obviously born here, in the American suburbs without having gone through any of those experiences yourself. Do you feel like you carry those stories with you? Like do you–have they affected you viscerally? 00:11:38.000 --> 00:14:44.000 That’s a great question. So, you know, I used to–I’ve asked myself this question many times. I think it has. I think that I see that trauma carry over into my life because, you know, the way my parents raised me was sometimes out of fear. It was out of paranoia. It was also out of irrationality. I don’t know if that’s a word. But it was not a very healthy way of raising me and my brothers with that frame, (makes a circling motion in the air with his left hand) with that mindset. And even though I’ve never lived through it, I feel like it–I feel like the history comes back and it reminds me of what’s going on. It’s always a reminder of their pain and why I am that hope. Why my brothers are that hope for them. And that was hard to carry that because, you know, you’re carrying this burden to lift their hap–to give them some level of happiness, some level of closure. It’s very hard because I’m not the one–I’m not the recipient of that trauma. However, I am also the product of my parents’ trauma in a way. Like I don’t know if it makes any sense. Because in a way like I’m not a recipient of the war. But I am a product of my parents’ convergence together. It’s–my parents—I think about this a lot. Like if I did not—If they did not have to go through this torture, through this systemic violence and what have you, I would not be here, you know. This existence would not—I would not be existing right now. So, I do think about that part a lot. It’s like what do I want to do with this history behind me. What do I do with ancestry that’s behind me too. How do I create something here in the U.S., you know? Because my parents—It was a struggle for them to create something here that actually gave them some level of hope or some level of happiness. And that’s something that they really couldn’t find because their mode has been into survive, and that they saw us as the product of their labor. Like okay, you know what? I don’t know if the happiness is going to exist for me, but I’m going to find my brothers like to make sure that their lives are better. But it came at a cost. Yeah. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.000 What cost would that be? 00:14:46.000 --> 00:17:49.000 I think it came at a lot–it came at a big price for them. Because my parents, in order for them to live into a decent suburb, they worked a lot of hours. It was very be–it was just very difficult, right. So, I think for my mom she worked sixty hours, seventy hours a week. My dad, you know, before he got let go, he was doing the same thing, too. And so, it affected their health. I mean their jobs were not easy because, you know, my dad was working in a factory. My mom was working in an assembly line. It is an ongoing process of their work. It’s non-stop. It’s a real challenge for them to navigate this kind of work without that kind of rest that’s needed for this–the labor. So, yeah. I think it affected them with their health. My dad, when he got laid off, it was devastating to him. Like that part of identity was ripped away. He did not know what to do with himself. And he just could not work anymore. And I felt like because–not only because he couldn’t find anything else that actually worked and paid him the way he was getting paid, and he was getting paid pretty well from a union level. The level work that’s required was very physical. It was very demanding and I think it traumatized him. For my mom, she had a stroke at work, 2012. Yeah. So, all I can say is that their production sacrificed their health and their mindset. So, yeah. In order for us to live a very productive life, this was the res–this was their labor in order for them to create that. So, I’m very cognizant of that and an example of that would be that I got into a full ride scholarship at U.I.C. (University of Illinois at Chicago) through my mom’s work. But that also came at a price. Came at a price for my mom’s labor. Came at a price for her to take pay cuts all the time. For my dad, you know, we live in a pretty comfortable suburb in Westmont. And we did not have to deal with other southeast Asian refugees that were dealing with gang violence and poverty. And we did not have to go through the social safety nets early on. So, we were very much in a good position. But it required so much out of them to do that. 00:17:49.000 --> 00:18:05.000 Thank you for sharing that. Tell me about–tell me about your childhood and what it was like for you. It sounds like mom and dad were at work all the time, and you didn’t really have a strong family presence like extended family. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:19:29.000 If—Yeah. It felt like a lonely period time, I think. Yeah. I think it felt like a very isolating experience because I was not around a lot of kids. I had my brothers but I did not know how to be a big brother in a sense. I was only–there were–I was only like less than two and a half years older than them. And for me, I didn’t really want siblings because I kind of wanted the attention and I didn’t feel like I had enough of it. And so, that was hard. And also because they were twins, they got a lot of attention, you know. I think that kind of made it difficult for me to deal with. So, yeah. I was a very shy kid growing up. I was very cautious around kids around my age. I don’t know exactly why. But I just knew that I was not around them growing up. And I think that might have affected my relationship, the trust. It affected my relationship to get along with peers. And that was hard. That was a very hard time. But I would say my childhood was very isolating. I did not mind being around adults, funny enough. And I think it’s because they gave me that kind of attention in some way, you know. It kind of–and I kind of needed that. So, I think that’s the best way I can, you know, sum up my childhood. 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:37.000 Okay. So, are you saying that you liked being around adults more than kids because you weren’t getting attention from the adults that— 00:19:37.000 --> 00:20:07.000 I think I was getting more attention from the adults. But I think there’s something about the language itself. Like I was also growing up around adults, too. I think that’s kind of why it was easier for me to be around. But around kids, there weren’t very many. I mean there just weren’t many around the school block, around my neighborhood. And it felt awkward, too, you know. And it–I–and also, I think it didn’t help that I was one of the very few Asian kids, too. So, certainly I think that had something to do with it. Yeah. 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:22.000 Okay. We’ll definitely come back to that—being one of a few Asian kids. But tell me like what you did as a kid like you were pretty shy you said. Were you more like reading books at home by yourself? Or like what were your— 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:44.000 Yeah. I think I was kind of like reading books. I was basically playing by myself a lot. I played by myself a lot. So, yeah. I just did not feel comfortable interacting with other kids at that time. It took me a long time to get consid–to get some level of that. I don’t think it happened in elementary school, you know. But I did read a lot. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.000 What were your–some of your favorite books? What comes to mind? 00:20:46.000 --> 00:21:05.000 You know, I would read, funny enough, like maybe in third grade, I started reading encyclopedias. I was such a geek for history. So, I would always read. And so, I would always get nav—I always felt navigated by that. So, it was kind of something I took a lot of joy doing, yeah. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:13.000 Mm-hmm. Cool. And what about music? I know you’re into music. And you’re a concertgoer. What bands and artists stand out to you during that time period? 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:41.000 Oh, yeah. Probably–it probably didn’t happen until junior high but for me it was Mariah Carey. It was Madonna. It was Janet Jackson. Those were the triangle of divas. And, but that–they were certainly people I listened to. Then there was, you know, my little rock phase with Smashing Pumpkins and Red Hot Chili Peppers. And so, yeah. I—And hip-hop music too. But anything that was like on the radio station, B-96, that was my go-to, yeah. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.000 Okay. B-96. Is that station still in existence? 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:48.000 It’s still there but I haven’t listened to that station in a long time. It’s a very different format, I guess, so— 00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:07.000 Yeah. Sure. Okay. Um, okay. I just want to hear more about your childhood. So, I’m going to ask some probing questions. But if you want to go off on tangents, feel free. And also if any of these questions are just like not—If you have no answer, that’s fine, too. 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.000 What—So, did you have any influential teachers? 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000 I did. I did, actually. 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.000 Okay. Great. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:28:32.000 Yeah. Oh, gosh. This might get me emotional. Because this was such—But this is a story I definitely want to talk about. Yeah. I had a couple of really good teachers actually. Yeah. Well, one was my speech therapist, Mrs. Gaul (Roxanne Gaul). I still keep in touch with her. Then there’s my ESL teacher, Mrs. Hodek (Jean Hodek). I, you know, keep in touch with both of them very much. And they took me in under their wings, you know. They were the people that I trusted very early on since kindergarten. Like I had a hard time trusting people, trusting my peers. For some reason, I trusted them and I think it’s because they gave me the individual attention. They gave me the love, the nurturing that I needed. I have to say that my parents couldn’t do that, but they were just not always present. But they were the first ones to really do that. And they were with me the entire duration, you know, to this day. I mean they’re people I still keep in touch with. Um, (pats his upper chest with his right hand) sorry. Mrs. Nilan. This is a special story for me. She was my third-grade teacher. First and second grade I was struggling, you know. And somewhere along the line with third grade, she saw my potential. And I think this is kind of where I started to really grow and flourish under her tutelage. You know, she used to say something that I would always remember. And it was “Good, better, best. Never let it rest, until your good is better, until your better is your best.” We used to repeat that as a mantra every day in class. And very welcoming, very inclusive, very loving, very loving, you know. So, I would say that she was a big inf–she was a huge, huge impact on my life. Like profound impact on my life. It’d be like over the years I would get to learn more about her as a teacher, you know. Like I remembered when I was going to secondary education for a brief time, she allowed me to observe her class. And it allowed me to see it as an adult, as a young adult, to see how she navigated that class. And I was like— Like she would never say “You’re wrong.” She would always allow people to share their answers before she actually made her response, you know. And so, she had a way of making you feel very welcome. And she was very passionate about her work as a teacher. Very funny, very witty and charismatic. And so, a couple of years ago, she had–was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. So, about a year ago, I decided to visit her actually. You know. And I had no idea that she was going to remember me. So, she l—was—she’s currently living in Minne–like in St. Paul, Minnesota. And so, I wanted to (sighs) pay a visit to her because when I found out that she had dementia, she had early onset Alzheimer’s or dementia, I hadn’t seen her for several years. And I just felt like I needed to give her her flowers. I just needed to give her my thanks. Because she really helped me a lot as this refugee kid, as this–as seeing me grow up as an adult, seeing me become a teacher in South Korea. So, she was there for a lot of my milestones. And I felt like, as hard as it was for me to try to visit her in that circumstance, I felt like I owed that to her. I felt like I owe something to make her feel better. So, to make her day, you know. That was the goal, you know. I don’t have the expectation that she was going to remember me. So, last year I drove up to Minneapolis, in St. Paul, and I decided to visit her in her assisted living and, you know, I was actually terrified. I had my flowers. I was shaking. I was like I don’t know what I’m going to do. Because I had a friend of mine who was going to come join me and she is a care worker. So, she—And also was my childhood grade school friend that went to school with me too. And when she got Covid and she’s like “I can’t go” then I was like oh, my god. It's up to me to just do this visit. And I’m like I’m scared out of my mind because I don’t know if she’s going to get agitated, if it’s going to scare her that she’s seeing a random stranger that she doesn’t recognize. And she hadn’t seen me in like six years. And so, you know, it’s not a good situation. So, I knocked on her door and, you know, the–her mouth just dropped open. And she was like “I remember you” is what she said. And I was like—And I was not prepared for that. I was like wow ; she actually remembers who I was. And she started asking me—The first question she asked me is “How is your mom doing?” Because the last time she saw me was with my mom. And so, I kind of knew right then and there that she actually remembered who I was, like just the face, the way she reacted. It’s like, okay, this is very–this is a very genuine reaction. And when I talked to her and I was holding back, I was crying. I was like having tears. I was like—I was not prepared for that. I was not prepared to have that kind of redirection of the conversation. I was just going to say “Well, how are you?” I mean and try to work with her where she’s at. And then I decided it’s like you know what? I had to thank her, you know. “You really helped me a lot.” So, you know, it made her day to hear that, you know. It’s like I said “You know, you really made my week” is what I said to her. And she’s like “You made my week, too.” And you know, it was very special. It was a very much needed visit because I needed to thank her. I needed—I don’t know how long she’s got left. But I just needed to at least put the exclamation mark in that chapter, you know. It’s like, you know, this is what you’ve done for me and I’ve got to make sure that you get your flowers, you know. So, that was very powerful for me to have that moment. Yeah. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.000 That’s beautiful. 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000 Yeah. Thank you for that question. 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.000 Yeah. And that was Mrs. Nilan? 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.000 Yes. 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.000 How do you spell that? N— 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.000 N-I-L-A-N. 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:45.000 What’s her first name? 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.000 Sharon. 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.000 Sharon Nilan. And you also mentioned Mrs. Gaul and Mrs. Hodek? 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000 Yes. G-A-U-L. 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.000 G-A-U-L. 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.000 And Hodek is H-O-D-E-K. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.000 D-E-K. Thank you. Names are very important. 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.000 Yeah. Thank you. 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.000 Did you—So, you’re really involved now in the community. 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:13.000 To an extent, yeah. I could say, yeah, to some extent. I don’t think I’m as involved as I’d like to be. But you know— 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:17.000 Okay. Okay. We’ll get to that. But how involved were you back then when you were a kid and growing up? 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.000 Not at all. Nope. Mm-mmm. Nope. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.000 Okay. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.000 I did not. I did not. I was very isolated. 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:38.000 Okay. Was part of that—I’m sure part of that was just circumstantial. But was it also self-imposed, maybe, because you were not—or was it self-imposed at all in any— 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:48.000 At any point in my life? Self-imposed. Probably in my twenties I was. Because I felt the language loss very much. I felt ashamed of that. I— 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.000 Language loss? 00:29:49.000 --> 00:31:34.000 Yes. Language loss, language shame, you know. Just not feeling like I’m enough, you know. I’m not—I don’t feel like I’m Vietnamese enough. I don’t feel like I’m Cambodian enough. So, I just did not feel like I wanted to be venturing on those spaces. And I went to U.I.C. for my undergrad. And so, it had a predominantly mix of Asian students, but I was not around many of them. I was an English major, so I did not have a lot of Asian colleagues or classmates to hang around with. So, yeah. It—yeah. So, it–I think that there was a lot of—I don’t want to say “self-loathing” but of being Asian, but I think that I was very guarded about who I let in. I just did not feel like I was enough and I’m not going—And I felt like I had to protect myself from being in those spaces where I may not be welcomed at all. So, yeah. I think it took me until my–until I went to Korea and then coming back, I felt like I needed that community. You know, after being in Korea, it’s like, you know, I really feel like I need to explore and adventure on to that identity more, because I did not fit into white spaces. I did not fit into the spaces I was forcing myself into. And that was the upbringing that I was raised in, a predominantly white community. And I just realized that that was not cutting it for me. I felt like I needed to step outside my comfort zone and go there. 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:45.000 Okay. I want to go back to what you mentioned about language loss. So, not speaking Vietnamese or Khmer —is that what you meant? 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.000 Yeah. That’s correct. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:55.000 Okay. So, did–was it people from those communities that made you feel that way,that you were not enough? 00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:34.000 Relatives, family members, parents, you know. I was very angry, and also, I think as a teenager I was very angry, you know. I felt like I was not seen as enough. So therefore, fuck it. I don’t want to be a part of that community and so I definitely felt that in some ways, internally. So, yeah. I think that, you know, from family friends. So, I certainly saw where I lacked, and it was very present. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000 What would people say to you if I can ask? 00:32:37.000 --> 00:34:15.000 Hhmmm. Well, it’ll always start–it’d be “you should.” So, that’s one that happens a lot (circles his right pointer finger in the air, signifying repetition). And I was in a very rebellious part of my life where it’s more like “Yeah, I should but I don’t. I won’t. And do I?” you know. So, I–that’s how I responded to a lot of it. (raises his head with chin in the air) It’s like I know where my—I kind of know where my place is but I know that my place is not within those spaces because I know that not being able to communicate definitely puts me in a very–at a big disadvantage. But also, because what my elders were wanting (circles his right hand in the air for emphasis) is not my reality because that’s not how I was raised. The environment I was raised in was very assimilating, so it’s like if I want to be successful, if I want to be able to survive in being in America, then I’m going to have to ride that wave rather than, you know, riding on my parents’ communities because I don’t think they could survive in a sense. And I say this not in a mean, demeaning way. It’s because I have seen them struggling to survive, you know, and it’s like why do I want to struggle? 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:22.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, it sounds like you really have had a backbone, from a young age. Like you didn’t just kind of bend over the wave. I feel like a lot of Asian Americans— 00:34:22.000 --> 00:35:19.000 I feel like I didn’t—I feel like I did not have a choice. I feel like I did not have a choice. But I felt like I did not have a backbone for a—growing up until I had to grow up some thick skin, you know, early on as a teenager and into my early adulthood. And I, you know, I found people that did in a way understand me like, you know, teachers definitely had some understanding of me. And so, I sought to seek their wisdom. If you—so to speak. But they also don’t have the full lens (motions to the left with his left arm) of my family’s experience and my intersectional identities. So, yeah. I think that also being a queer person, I was not out during that period of time. Certainly, it also kept me away from community spaces. So, I was very guarded. I felt like I had to protect myself and therefore I had to grow a backbone. 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:27.000 Uh-huh. Yeah. Can you tell me about your relationship with your parents, then and now? 00:35:27.000 --> 00:40:53.000 You know— Then (sighs) it goes back and forth. Um, I would say with my mom, you know, we’re closer. I mean, yeah. I know you’ve met my mom and, you know, and recently. And (sighs) you know, ever since her stroke, I have been very aware about the mortality. I’ve been very aware about how long she’s got. I’m going to turn forty in June, and I know that there’s going to be a time when she’s not going to follow me the rest of the journey–the rest of my journey. Is it hard? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I wonder what that would look like. I wonder what am I going to lose? I’m going to lose the cooking, perhaps. I’m going to lose the access to the Vietnamese culture. It’s like reading Crying in H Mart. I don’t know if you’ve read that book, but that first chapter there is like a hodge-podge of everything I do fear, you know. Going into a grocery store when your mom’s gone and having these memories just come up. Oh yeah. I think about that. It’s like go—am I going to go to a grocery store and think about that mortality and think about what I’m losing and what I’m not going to experience anymore, you know, moving forward. I do think about that. I would say that it has gotten better. I think for a long time I did not trust my mom because I felt like she had to be agreeing with my dad out of necessity. And my dad, you know, my dad was very difficult. He was very stern. He was very challenging to be around. He can also be loving at times, too, which makes it very conflicting because I’ve been experiencing both. I’ve experienced love in a way that was both loving and caring and also abusive. So, it made—I kept my guard up, you know, for a very long time with my parents. And I had to fight for what I wanted to do with my life, you know. I had to fight to get into a different major which did not please them. I knew that I was never going to please them. So, I’m going to have to do things the hard way. I had to–I felt like I had to do things alone. Even with my mom’s help with college, which was a big help, I wanted to prove that I could do this without their help. In some ways, I have been able to, not out of resentment but out of like this is a necessity for me. I see a way that’s different for me. I may not be a lawyer. I may not be successful like from a financial venture, but I am more fuller. I am more grounded. I have made incredible friends and a lot of it has to do with my rebellion. It comes from having to be brave and to navigate into some very difficult waters with them, especially when it meant costing my relationship with them. My dad is a very complicated person because he went through so much hell and back. There was a time when I moved out of Rogers—when I moved out of Westmont to Rogers Park for a couple of years and I didn’t talk to them for any of those years. And I knew that my dad’s mental health went south very quickly after that. And it wasn’t until an emergency situation had to happen where I had to intervene, and my dad needed to get medical help for that. And so, our relationship did improve for a little while but, you know, I think (sighs) as time went on my dad had a hard time trusting me because I had to be the one to put him through intervention which was against his own will. And with that said, he and I have this respectful space (rotates his hands in a circular motion). We could be civil to each other, but we just don’t have a relationship, you know. It’s existence. It’s in a very existing relationship that—it’s a relationship that exists but not in a transparent, in a very exchanging kind of way, you know. So, it was very tough. My dad and I are alike in many ways. We’re both very stubborn and we’re both very combative. We’re also, you know, very curious and we both like to tell stories, in a way. So, there’s similarities in us, good and bad. And sometimes that dynamic hits very hard between both of us. 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:57.000 Yeah. Yeah. And you currently live with your— 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:23.000 I do. I do, you know, because both of my parents have needs. You know, my dad definitely has mental health needs, so I need to be there to make sure that, you know, he’s okay. And he’s usually okay when I’m around. My mom, on the other hand, you know, she has her needs. You know, she is very independent yet, you know, you’ve seen her. But, you know, she definitely certain—she has mobility issues that require me to stick around a little bit. 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:42.000 Yeah. Okay. It’s really nice of you to be there with them and be a dutiful son. Tell me about the Vietnamese community that you grew up with, or lack thereof. 00:41:42.000 --> 00:42:06.000 I think lack thereof. I mean I know Asia on Argyle has been my access to it. This is kind of where I do–am familiar with what’s going on with the community. I would describe it as a sense of appreciation now. Back then, I used to not want to go there because it felt like it was a far drive from Westmont to here. 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000 How far of a drive was it? 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.000 Um, you’re talking about close to an hour. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:15.000 Close to an hour! Oh, my goodness. Okay. Did you–did your parents come down here to do grocery shopping? 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:22.000 Yes. All the time. And this place was more bustling back in the day. I mean it was bustling. 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:23.000 Where would you go? 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:30.000 Việt Hoa (Viet Hoa) and Tại Nam (Tai Nam). And I can’t remember the other grocery store (motions behind him with his right hand) that’s since closed. But that’s another place too. 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.000 And anywhere else? Like would you go out to eat on Argyle? 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:54.000 We went to Ba Lẹ (Ba Le) back when it was an old, old shop when it used to be an old hole-in-the-wall. Hard to believe but, you know, that was that time. But, you know, the–but yeah. We hung around there quite a bit. So, that was my access to the Vietnamese community. As far as like making friends, I did not have that experience. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:59.000 Did that—When did that start changing for you? Because I know now you have a Vietnamese community. When did it start to shift? 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:33.000 I think for both communities it–probably when I came back to Chicago from Korea. Yeah. That’s when I started to get involved with i2i, which is a LGBTQAPI org. I was living in Rogers Park and met a lot of queer Asian friends of mine, and some happened to be Vietnamese. One was–is a close Khmer friend of mine. So, that’s how the ball started rolling in that direction. Mm-hmm. 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:39.000 And what did your trip to Korea have to do with this shift? 00:43:39.000 --> 00:45:34.000 Oh! I think a lot, actually. Up until I was twenty-five years old before I left for Korea, I was in mostly white dominated spaces. Being in Korea—and the reason why I went—it’s a long story but when I was looking for jobs back home, it was a struggle. I wanted to go into media and communications. I was striking out everywhere I went. And it was such a pain. And then I was like I don’t know if I have any hope being in the U.S. I started to look into teaching abroad as an option. I had briefly got into a secondary program, wasn’t very satisfied. I was thinking, you know, maybe I should give this a shot. Vietnam was my first choice. But then I realized that they were not interested in finding Vietnamese American people to teach. They wanted white people to teach. That was my experience. And I was very devastated by that. It’s like, this is awful, and I felt like this was my one chance that I could actually have to be connected in some way, you know. And, but one of the TOEFL recruiters—TOEFL is like “Teaching English as a Foreign Language”—well, the program actually told me about, well, Korea was an option. And Korea had a big opening for the English teaching program. So, long story short, it was the first time I was around other Asian expats. There’s a few that are Vietnamese, one of them became a close friend of mine. He was like my neighbor. 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.000 What’s his name? 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:36.000 His name is Tony (Hùynh) (Tony Huynh). 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.000 Tony? 00:45:37.000 --> 00:46:17.000 Yes. He—Yeah. We were like brothers for that year, and I was there for three years. I started realizing how white expats became more obnoxious. I just did not want to be around them as much. But I saw that there was an Asian expat community of teachers and I felt like I related to them in some ways. We related to the diaspora. We related to the fact that we were around the same age, and that our upbringing was in a way similar—language loss, diaspora, suburbia. 00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:19.000 Were they Asian American or Asian? 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:57.000 Yes. Asian American and some were Asian Australian, Asian Canadian, Asian British. So, it was a very good experience to have that. I was like, gosh, now I know what it feels like to be in that space. And I felt that once I come back home, I’m going to make that effort to be in those spaces, Asian American spaces. And because I felt like now I know what it’s like and I don’t feel that I could turn back. And I was about to turn thirty, you know. It was like I feel like I needed to make that shift in my life. 00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:02.000 That’s a really big shift. Do you think you were a pretty different person when you came back? 00:47:02.000 --> 00:48:10.000 Yes, I did. Yeah. For many reasons. As a teacher, I never realized that I would be looked up to in some kind of way. And I felt like I did not realize that I would have to be responsible for the people in my–in that I would be teaching for. And I realized that that was very important. So, I realized that I don’t want to just live recklessly. I wanted to live with a level of responsibility. And I think that was a big shift for me. I also realized how important it was for me to understand my identity as a queer, Viet-Khmer American. I needed to own that before the narratives of that owns me. I wanted to control that narrative. I wanted to show this is who a person of those identities can mean. And I wanted that to come out in a way that’s on my agency, you know. And I felt like that was very important. 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:18.000 Yeah. Yeah. When did you come out? 00:48:18.000 --> 00:49:32.000 I think there’s been different periods that I’ve come out as. I don’t think there was a specific year. There really wasn’t. I’d say it was more official once I hit thirty which is a kind of a while ago, which is like about a decade ago. I think because I was so protective of my personal life for so long that it was very hard for people to kind of get a sense of who I was. And I wanted people to—or I wanted my friends to know that in order for me to be a safe person, I need to be safe to myself. I need to be safe too about the identities that live within me. How do I create safeness, you know, without fear, without prejudice, without having to internalize that? So, I wanted to be a safe person to other people. And in order for me to do that, I had to be safe to myself. So, I think that’s what prompted me to be more transparent about who I am and who I’ve been all along. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:48.000 Yeah. I really like the way you put that, being safe to other people. Being safe to yourself. That makes total sense and I never thought about it that way before. So, can I ask when you came out to your parents? Or if you came out to your parents? 00:49:48.000 --> 00:52:01.000 Mmm, we haven’t had much discussion to be honest with you. My mom knows and that was like several years ago. My thing is I think she accepts that reality that I’m not going to give her grandkids which has never been my goal. I don’t know if she could handle me being in a relationship because I’ve, you know, have not—I have been in many short relationships but never anything that substantial. I don’t know if she–how she would handle that reality. I don’t know if that’s–if she is fearful of the fact that I may no longer take care of her or whatever. That’s not the case. But we haven’t had that discussion in a long time. You know, it kind of reminds me of the book Ma and Me by Putsata Reang who talks about that sort of her coming out, you know. Her mom initially accepted it but did not want her getting married to a woman, you know. So, that was a lot of struggle back and forth. And I kind of wonder—that same scenario—am I afraid? No, I don’t think I’ve ever been afraid, to be honest with you. I’m kind of confrontational about how stubborn I am and at the same time I also don’t like to be that way either because I feel like it’s such a draining energy. And I like to live in a way that is very peaceful, you know. But I also know that if that time comes, then it will come, you know. I’m not going to force the issue. For my dad, I don’t think I have that relationship for him, with him, for me to even care, you know? It’s like sometimes there’s a part of me that would probably do it out of revenge. But that’s not the way for me to do that. Yeah. I could say that my coming out has been very, very complicated but it seems like everyone else knows and very openly because my relatives see my Facebook. They see my social media. I’ve been very out in front about my experiences. And if you don’t like it, then find someone else to follow. 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:11.000 Yeah. I think that’s very brave of you, if I can say that. 00:52:11.000 --> 00:53:04.000 I think it’s both brave, but it’s also necessity. It’s the way I live my life. I need to confront a lot of discomfort that people have about me or that I have about myself. I have to do that. It’s a necessity in order for me to be my best self, to be transparent, to be authentic. And I can’t live without the authenticity because I know that when I don’t have my authenticity with me, it’s a struggle. That was a struggle for me in my childhood. I did not know where I was belonging, and I felt like I wanted to fit in and assimilate. And realizing that that created more harm. Don’t want to go to that place. You know? I’ve been there. Not a good place for me to be in. 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.000 Is there anything you’re still working on confronting today? 00:53:07.000 --> 00:54:13.000 (sighs) I think I have to confront the fact that as I’m getting older, I have to confront the fact, you know, that I’ve seen friends of mine who have lost their parents, you know. I feel like I have to confront the day that, you know, my parents aren’t there. Or the fact that people older than me are not going to be around. I do think about that part because I know that I’m going to be gatekeeping a lot of that history, the history that I have accumulated. And I’m going to be—And it’s also what do I do with history? How do I want to share that? How do I want to present myself? What does my involvement with the community look like as I get older? You know. So, it’s—I think it’s too soon to tell but it’s certainly something I think about. 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:18.000 Thank you for your honest answers. I’m just marinating on them and trying to see like where I can jump off. 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.000 Sure! 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:31.000 Do you—This is related to your last answer, but it’s not going to sound like it. Do you feel like you and your parents know each other? 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:32.000 That’s a great question. 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:35.000 Like do you feel like you know each other on a personal level? 00:54:35.000 --> 00:57:36.000 I don’t, to be honest with you. I think—I don’t think anyone’s asked me that question before. But I really don’t—I try to give—especially my mom—I try to give her more bits and pieces, you know, that I feel comfortable sharing, like when I went to L.A. recently, like earlier this year. It was great for her to see you. It was great for her to see my friend Kenneth (Nguyễn) (Kenneth Nguyen). You know, other aspects of my life, you know. I’ve done that, you know, in some tangible way, because I at least don’t want to completely guard myself. But I think I’ve had such a hard time because I’ve always guarded my family life and my personal life very separately, for a really long time. So, old habits die hard. I think I don’t know if it’s very judgment, but I do fear my friends, you know, being hurt by what my mom or dad might say, you know, by whether it’s by intention or not, you know. Especially when I have a lot of queer and trans friends, you know. I wonder how she would feel about my friend who became a trans man recently and you know I thought about that because I’m like I feel like I want to protect my friends from harm, you know. Because I know that I have not done enough work to get them to understand identities and experiences that they don’t have knowledge of. Yeah. I don’t think we know each other as well as we could. And I feel like with time ticking and still not getting the full depth, the full scope of their experiences, I don’t know how many questions I’m going to be walking around with for the rest of my life. So, yeah, I do think about that part and, you know, my mom doesn’t really know that I have a podcast. I choose not to, because I feel like that work is very personal. I feel like it really gets into the weeds, and I don’t know if she quite understands that. I think maybe it’s because I feel that when it comes to my work, I want people to understand that. And if you don’t understand it, it’s a lot of labor for me to have to explain it. I don’t think I’m the most patient person out there. I feel like I am not as willing to give as much grace as I should. But I value that work as being very sacred, you know, and why I have to hold such value for it and it’s hard and if anyone doesn’t understand that, it’s like well, (motions with his right hand as if to throw something away) I don’t know what to say. 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:38.000 Is your mom as guarded as you are? 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:54.000 She can be. She can be, yes. And my dad is very guarded, too. So, I think that there’s habits, you know. I think there’s–there are–I think that those are dynamics that come into play. And my brothers are the same way too. They are very guarded as well. 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:58.000 Okay. Okay. I think my family’s the same. 00:57:58.000 --> 00:57:59.000 Yeah. 00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:08.000 Yeah. Tell me about the queer Asian American community. 00:58:08.000 --> 00:59:41.000 You know, I think it’s evolving. Definitely i2i was a very big community for me. I made so many friends. I learned so much about my identity. I used to learn so much about others’ identities and their experiences. I’d say it’s the queer Asian community that I belong to for a number of years where I’ve grown into my friendships with and some I’ve kind of like left behind in some way, whether it’s through time or what not. I learned a lot about social justice work. I learned about self-care. I learned about different tools that betters selves as people, as individuals, as a collective. And so that’s something I’ve learned about that community. And I will always be thankful for that, for those–for that expansion of my tool kit. And I think that is something I’m very thankful for, for that community. And, yeah, they’ve taught me a lot. I can definitely say that without them, I would not be as empathetic as I am now. And my work on empathy is still growing, it’s still working, it’s a work in progress. But it’s certainly better off than it was a decade ago before I came into those spaces. 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:51.000 Mmm. Okay. Are there any people in particular that you want to mention by name who have been really instrumental to you as a gay man? 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:54.000 Yeah. I have this–I have to thank Nebula Li for that. 00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:55.000 Nebula Li. 00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:34.000 Yeah. Yeah, he has been very helpful over the years. I’m very thankful for that. I would also like to thank Lyk, L-Y-K Yoeun. She was the one that made me feel safe as a queer Cambodian to be involved in the community because she herself is a queer Cambodian woman. So, I’m very thankful to her for that. Joy Messinger, a Korean American adoptee, definitely a person that I value as a friend, and someone that I really care about, someone that has really taught me about compassion and has taught me about the work in social justice. 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.000 What was Lyk’s last name? 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:41.000 Joy Messinger. Messinger as in M-E-S-S-I-N-G-E-R. 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:42.000 And Lyk? 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.000 L-Y-K. And her last name is Yoeun, Y-O-E-U-N. 01:00:46.000 --> 01:01:07.000 Y-O-E-U-N. Thank you. That’s great. And then so still on the topic of community, tell me about how do you think people in the Vietnamese American community see you? 01:01:07.000 --> 01:02:14.000 Um, hmm. I don’t know if I have a full scope of how they feel about me. I’ve always felt that I’m an open book. So, I think maybe some might see me as polarizing. Some might see me as like a person that they need to be in community with. I think it really depends. I don’t know if I have a good answer for that. I think they see me as relatable. I think they see me as a person that is genuine about the work. I think it’s been done through my podcast. So, I think the work speaks for itself. It depends. And also, you could see that in the guests that I bring in that are also Vietnamese and Cambodian. So, I think that really, you know, shows that I have worked to gain the trust and that that is a priority for me, whenever I do my work, whether my podcasts or as a storyteller or in any–at any platform that I’m being given. 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:21.000 Mmm. That’s great. And—how do you want to be seen? 01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:49.000 I think I want to be seen as empathetic yet unapologetic. I want to be seen as a person who’s endlessly curious and really is curious enough to lift stories to end the harm that’s been done to our community. 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:52.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I see you as all those things, Randy. 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:55.000 Oh, thank you. 01:02:55.000 --> 01:03:03.000 Okay. So, that’s a good segue actually. Let’s talk about your podcast. 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.000 Sure. 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:09.000 You’ve done a lot in the Asian American community. 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:10.000 Thank you. 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.000 What led up to making a podcast? 01:03:14.000 --> 01:06:34.000 Yeah. So, about four years ago around this time in April, I had been a guest on a few podcasts, the Vietnamese Boat People podcast, Self-Evident, Asian American Stories, and The Gay Asian podcast, which is then–which was then changed to Queer Asian Social Club. And I really enjoyed that experience. And I had been doing some storytelling at that time, but I was working with my former mentor, and she actually told me “I would like to challenge you to do an independent project. I feel that you’re ready to do it.” She was very right because I needed my own platform. I felt like I was starting to find my voice and I wanted to do a podcast that was like a love letter to my younger versions to myself, the 10-year-old that never learned about Asian American leaders and change makers. I wanted to do a podcast as a love letter to my 15-year-old self that had to see Asian Americans as the villains of the story, of the narrative. I wanted to do a love letter—a podcast as a love letter to my 20-year-old version that struggled as a journalism student in a very white dominated space and how that would carry, follow me through my college years. And then the love letter to my closeted self. The love letter to my 25 to 30-year-old something self that was lost between my identities. And so, I wanted a podcast that actually reflected these wants. What could have my 10 to 30-year-old self would have wanted to learn all along, wanted affirmed, wanted validated? And I also saw the need to after working with community members in our Asian community members tell us of their stories. I wanted the podcast to show that Asian Americans are doing things about uplifting their history. Because my brother once told me that he didn’t really see that, and it really irked me. I was like “No. That’s not true. I know that there are people and I hear—here’s the evidence for it.” I wanted to talk to authors. I wanted to talk to activists. I wanted to talk to community members, educators. I wanted to talk to people that are sharing the blueprint of their work but also demonstrating the kind of conviction they have for their community and how they are working to change the landscape. I don’t want it to just be a representation matters nonsense. I want there to be work that’s being done in progress. I want them to—I want our community to have that chance to share their stories and have the agency to do so. 01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:45.000 That’s wonderful. So, tell me about the early days like when you actually started the podcast. Like what was—Who was your first guest? 01:06:45.000 --> 01:07:58.000 It was Etzkorn Wong. Etzkorn, actually, he is a musician, and I met him through my former mentor. And we connected. I remember we connected immediately, well, one because he’s part Vietnamese and his mom also had a stroke or at least something similar to my mom. And his mom nearly, you know, died from that. It was very–It was near fatal. It was like around the same time that my mom had hers. So, we connected almost immediately on that. And I felt like we wanted to talk about what caregiving looks like. And I chose him as my first guest because I felt like this would be an important conversation to talk about. The early days of my podcast was strictly very local, Chicago. I wanted to talk to people locally here and people that I’ve known through my i2i days, you know, people that I knew through Asian Americans Advancing Justice. I wanted to do something that was very intimate that actually lifted the stories of Chicago up first. And that was my focus during that first season. And you were a part of that too. 01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:09.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was a really great experience. KIM: Thank you. HO: And I did—Going back to what you just said about being empathetic and available, I did feel like you were a very gracious host. 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:34.000 Thank you. I think that was very important for me to have, prioritize that. Because it’s not my story. It’s their story. And I want them to be able to drive that story, you know. I want them to have agency to do so. And to do so in a space that feels safe for them to share, that gives them power, and that has—and to know it has impact. 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:49.000 How did you feel after your interview with Etzkorn? Like after you had finished the interview and then editing and it was published. How did you feel at that moment? Do you remember? 01:08:49.000 --> 01:09:42.000 Um, if I could recall, it was exhilarating. I felt like I had power to share this, you know. I was very eager to share that story. I was very eager to share other people’s stories that season. Like I felt like I had something important to do, you know, important to say. And for a while I had a hard time because I felt like I was latching on to my mentor for a while and I needed to have something of my own that I could be very proud of and that I can gain–that I can earn the respect of my peers. And that I’m doing something that’s part of our community’s history making and our future making. And a podcast is a good platform for that. So, I was very excited to share that episode. I was—It also made me very excited to share and interview other people. 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:52.000 Mm-hmm. That’s great. Who were some of your most memorable guests? 01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:53.000 Ooof. 01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.000 And why? Like one or two examples. 01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:56.000 One or two, okay. 01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:58.000 Or more if you want. 01:09:58.000 --> 01:13:58.000 Oooh. I’m going to—So, the first one that comes up for me is the family of Christian Hall. Christian Hall was the nineteen-year-old Chinese American adoptee who was murdered by police during a mental health crisis. And I decided to interview his family members, his parents, his adoptive parents specifically, and his adopted aunt. And it was very important for me to capture their story because the story that was often told was him being murdered and the last few, sixty seconds of that video where he was murdered in a civilian footage. I had wanted to change that narrative. I wanted to show who was Christian Hall as a nineteen-year-old. What was he like as a son? What was he—What was his struggle like as an adoptee? I wanted the narrative of him to come out first and foremost because I felt like that was our way of understanding who he was behind the mental health crisis that he endured, that he had to go through, that he had to suffer through, and that unfortunately led to his murder by police. And I wanted to capture the full human scope of who he was. And his family was very gracious in doing that. I mean they talked about how he was affected, being an adoptee. Like he wanted to know who his birth parents were, but you know they couldn’t find out, and how that actually created a lifelong struggle for him. They talked about some of his joys, like how he would love to help his own friends and how he would often try to give three dollars when he didn’t even have three dollars. He was that kind of person. And it was very refreshing to see that narrative come out because that was not a narrative that they got to tell about their son to media outlets. So, I was very fortunate to have that. So, I think that was one of my most important episodes because it gave a fuller scope of who he was. But it also gave attention to what happened to him as well. Another interview for me would be Nguyễn Phan Quế Mai (Nguyen Phan Que Mai) who wrote The Mountains Sing and her recently released book Dust Child. She was very gracious, very down to earth. I read The Mountains Sing. It’s beautifully written. Dust Child was very powerful in its own right. And I wanted to talk about the Am–the Amer-Asian children, the mix, specifically Black Vietnamese children that were left behind during the war. And also, we got into a discussion about Cambodians in Vietnam, how they were treated and Que Mai as a Vietnamese person called out the Vietnamese people and the government for its treatment of ethnic minorities including Cambodians and Amer-Asians and that was very powerful. You don’t get to hear that from a Vietnamese person, especially with someone of her stature, of her platform. And she was very gracious in how she talked about the inhumanity that they experienced. And for me that was very validating because I have family members in Camb–in Vietnam that lived in that part of where there’s a lot of ethnic Cambodians. And there is historical erasures happening there. And so, for her to call that out was very important. I was surprised. I did not realize that that was the discussion I was going to have but it turned out to be a very necessary one. So, but I definitely enjoyed her humanity of in her writing and her willingness to shine a light on difficult topics that are very taboo and her willingness to confront that. 01:13:58.000 --> 01:14:07.000 Yeah. That’s wonderful. I should have started with this question, but your podcast is called “Bánh Mì Chronicles” (Banh Mi Chronicles). 01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:08.000 Correct. 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:09.000 Tell me about that title. 01:14:09.000 --> 01:15:39.000 So, the Banh Mi Chronicles was created—Well, it was actually first created several years ago by, I think, 2016. I was eating at Như Lan (Nhu Lan) with my mom one time, and I was like “You know, it would be kind of nice if I called like my next—” This was before I even thought about podcasts. I would call my next writing piece the Banh Mi Chronicles because I wanted the idea of Banh Mi as like this example of assimilation, of example of Western and Vietnamese fusion and how that is similar to how my upbringing was and how often I have to rattle between those two worlds. And also, banh mi is bread. So, I thought about the idea of breaking bread. So, they—So, in 2019, I decided that I’m going to use that name towards a podcast because I do want to break bread with fellow guests. I also want to demonstrate what assimilation has done, you know, in a way that has affected my guests who have been a recipient of assimilation one way or the other, and how that has impacted us. I don’t want to put it from a narrative deficit but in a way that’s actually kind of like how do we find our voices despite the assimilation, despite the diaspora that we have to endure. 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.000 So, you’re sunsetting the podcast. 01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:45.000 Yes. Sunsetting is a good word for that, yes. 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.000 May I ask why? 01:15:47.000 --> 01:17:38.000 Yeah. I think when I was working on this season after I was coming from a six-month hiatus, I was like something is just not clicking. I’m like I just could not find the second gear to go. I could not find my second gear. I felt like after doing this solo—I’ve done the hosting, I’ve done the scheduling of interviews, I’ve done the writing, the narration, the coordination, promotion, what have you, and I think after four years it kind of wears on you after a while. But, also, I felt like I’ve accomplished everything I wanted to do out of a podcast. Like—And it’s been a great, great journey. I’ve met incredible people along the way, people that I can probably call my friends. I’ve connected with audience members who would also become my friends. I’ve, you know, gotten to speak at universities. I’ve gotten paid opportunities. I’ve gotten tremendous amount of opportunities, and I felt like I’ve done my part. It’s like—And I need something creatively challenging. I need something that’s creatively stimulating. I think creatively stimulating is a better word for it. And after four years, I felt like I’ve done everything I’ve done with this platform. And it’s the right time, you know. And I think when I was working on this season, I just could not find my second gear, even when I had some special guest hosts. And it still wasn’t enough. And I was like, okay, do I end it after this season, or do I go one more season? And I felt like I’m going to go with one more season, because at least that gives me time to figure out what I would like to do after the podcast. And I like to see how things manifest itself now that I’ve put it up to universe. 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:50.000 Okay. If you were going to do a podcast again, or a similar media project, what would you do differently? 01:17:50.000 --> 01:19:14.000 Oooh. (sighs) As far as another media project, I can answer that question. I would like to start my own newsletter after I’m done with the podcast. I’d still like to do the interview format, except in a written form. I may have the audio format just for purposes for those who are low vision or blind. But I would like to go in that direction. Maybe once a month. Perhaps work on a focus that features BiPOC, extends to the BiPOC and LGBTQIA communities. That would be something I would like to do. But that would be a goal of mine, and I would like to do something of that nature. And similar to the way I’ve done my podcast but except shorter because I want it to be digestible for readers, especially like for a one-hour transcript interview, it’s going to be a lot to deal with, versus a thirty-minute. So, I’d like to do something that’s–that I can play a lot with. But if I had to do another podcast, I don’t know. I say never say never, but because I’m in such a mode right now where I’m ready to sunset it, I just can’t think of any other way that I want to do a podcast. Because if that was the case, then I would be working on another podcast by now. 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:41.000 Yeah. That’s fair. That makes sense. Switching gears. So, this is the whole impetus for this oral history project—this question, I guess. What does it mean to you to be a Vietnamese American person? 01:19:41.000 --> 01:20:48.000 Well, I would say as a Vietnamese Cambodian person, because I just can’t see myself as simply a Vietnamese person, I think it carries layers. I think it carries a lot of history. It carries complications. I probably won’t get too—I don’t want to dive into the weeds, because I think it’s just going to, you know, get all tangled up. But I would say that it has many layers. It’s not monolithic. It’s–it’s very multilayered. And it’s not just one story. It’s multitudes of stories. And some of those multitudes’ own little strands of stories can connect with other Vietnamese people that are very different from me. But somehow that shared connection can really be very powerful in of itself. But yeah. I think that’s the best way of answering that question, because I don’t know how else to answer that except that it’s a very multilayered, complex identity. But that’s what happens when you live in diaspora. 01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:53.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I know that was a complicated question, but I really love your answer. 01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:58.000 Of course. 01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:05.000 Do you feel at your core that you are carrying these different identities with you? 01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:38.000 I feel it. I definitely feel it. I’m reminded about it in my work. I’m reminded about it in my interactions with people, with my community. I’m also inter—I’m also reminded in my interactions with non-Asian people as well because I know that people see me differently. So, I know that I’m carrying all these identities with me. I don’t see them as burdens as I used to. I see them as assets. I see them as treasures to me. 01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:39.000 That’s beautiful. 01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:42.000 Thanks. 01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:51.000 Okay. So, that’s a good question, a good segue into my next question. So, the relationship between the Asian American community and the Black community is very complicated. 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:52.000 Mmm. It is. 01:21:52.000 --> 01:22:00.000 So, I just want to hear. This is not a question per se, but just tell me your thoughts on that. 01:22:00.000 --> 01:26:59.000 I value Asian and Black solidarity where we can see it because it does exist. It is very monumental to dismantling white supremacy. And being in this country, especially being in this country where white supremacy has really been the dominant narrative, it is easy to see why Black and Asians have been struggling for solidarity of work. Because of how white supremacy has gotten itself involved in the separation and the dysfunction of that relationship. So, but I’m also at the same time like, you know, assimilation, white adjacency from the Asian community is very real. I want to acknowledge that. That it also does not lead us to liberation. What leads us to liberation is when Black communities are also free, when they can achieve the freedoms that have been evading them for so long. And we are better when they are free. Because that allows our community to be free. That means freedom from police violence. It’s freedom from hate crimes. It’s freedom [of] accessible housing, food, abundant food sources, and what have you. I have seen some hopeful examples. I’ve seen—We do have a Blasian community that no one talks about. I want to credit the Blasian march for doing their work on that. I look at the Black and Asian Alliance Network on Facebook that have done some—that have opened up spaces to have Black and Asian community members be in solidarity. So, I do see where it’s coming from. There is one of my favorite podcast episodes is with Akemi Kochiyama who is Blasian and she’s the granddaughter of the late Yuri Kochiyama, activist icon. Just incredible. And her work—Yuri Kochiyama’s work has been done on Black and Asian solidarity work and for Black freedoms work. Same with Grace Lee Boggs. Two instrumental women that have really showed, modeled examples of what Black and Asian solidarity looks–can look like. But Akemi talks about Yuri’s work for that reason alone, to talk about why it matters and where it exists. I have had Asian folks, men, Asian men specifically, been very angry at me because I support Black Lives Matter work. I think when I had Akemi Kochiyama, I had certain Asian men that DM’ed me and said “Well, I can’t believe you’re doing this.” And my response is why not? This is I think that for a number of reasons the history of Asian and Black solidarity have always existed. It’s existed when Vincent Chin was murdered. Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Push Coalition worked with Helen Zia and the AAPI community. It happened when Grace Lee Boggs worked with the Black Panthers or same with Yuri Kochiyama and her friendship with Malcolm X. Or we can look at the civil rights leaders like Martin Luther King and Thích Nhất Hạnh (Thich Nhat Hanh) who worked together to try to end the Vietnam war. And Black leaders that wanted–that pushed for the migration of southeast Asian refugees to the U.S. So, there has definitely been very, very important moments where that have existed. So, that’s important for us to remember that. Because if we don’t have that history, the violence between both communities will always continue. And it is my wish that I do my part in that both Blasian, Black and Asian folks, have been doing the solidarity work get to have their work uplifted and be—and that the history that they’re doing, the history making that they’re doing, becomes accessible to these communities. Because without it, it becomes a violent struggle. 01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:12.000 I knew you would have a very good answer to that question. I just had a feeling. What are your—How are you feeling energy-wise right now, at this moment? 01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:14.000 I think I’m doing good. 01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:32.000 Okay. What are your thoughts on recent or current events relating to refugee and asylum seekers, such as Afghanistan, Ukraine, and people crossing the U.S./Mexico border? Especially coming from us as refugee families. 01:27:32.000 --> 01:30:54.000 I think it’s simply history repeating itself. It’s a history that we’re very familiar with. It’s a history that also teaches us that—teaches me that as a product of the migration of that wave, so to speak. It’s important for people like myself to never turn an eye on that, to use that experience to welcome them, to help unpack the trauma that they’ve experienced. How do we lessen the generational trauma that this is going to have on their kids? Because that’s the first thing that comes up, is what are their kids going to inherit as a result of this horrible trauma and how can we as a community tap into that? How do we give space for survivors to tell their stories early on, and to make this normalized? I mean I hate using trauma porn to like gather people’s stories. I really don’t. But I do believe in having them—giving them agency to tell their stories, to be protected, to be given safeness from the community spaces that are giving them that voice or asking them to tell their stories, you know, making sure that they’re compensated, making sure that they’re taken care of. I think that’s very important as storytellers, as people who hold these stories. I would like to see—Yeah. I don’t know if I—I think I’m kind of losing my thought there. Yeah. I’d like to see community members who—refugee communities be able to also share their vision. Because I don’t think that my community was given that choice. They weren’t given the option to talk about well, what do they want to become, you know? I don’t—And this is not a knock on the churches or the refugee groups by any means, but I think it would help if they knew what their talents were, what their goals and ambitions were. Because they all had dreams at one point. And how can we help to use that, you know, instead of just putting them into a factory. Do they want to go to school? Do they want to become a doctor? Do they want to become–to contribute in a way that’s valuable to their vision? So, I think that would also be very important to get that. 01:30:54.000 --> 01:31:15.000 Yeah. After our family’s migration—how do I put this? So, we tend to—So, you and I were not—You and I were born here. Not in Vietnam or Cambodia. 01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:16.000 Correct. 01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:30.000 So, we’re one step away from the homeland, so to speak. How does culture stay intact when you get further and further away from that with every generation? 01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:34.000 I don’t know if that’s (sighs)—Hhhmmm. 01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:36.000 Or does it? 01:31:36.000 --> 01:32:31.000 I think it evolves. I think it evolves because culture doesn’t stay static. Culture is what you make of it. Culture is what you—how you receive it, how you work with it, how you take care of it, how you nurture it. So, yeah. I think it’s–it has to evolve. It can’t stay what it was fifty years ago. I mean without the destruction of the homeland, could we say that Vietnamese culture fifty years ago would stay the same as it was—as same as it would be to now? I don’t think so. So, I’d have to say that it has to evolve. But you have to be–you have to be the one driving the evolvement–the evolving. Otherwise, it will evolve on its own, out of your control. 01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:51.000 Yeah. Mm-hmm. Does the Vietnamese American in Chicago–the Vietnamese American community in Chicago have a strong hand in that evolution, would you say? I mean you’re clearly a part of it. 01:32:51.000 --> 01:34:56.000 Mm-hmm. I think they’re doing it differently. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Yeah. There are things that I get nostalgic for, you know. I get nostalgic for certain places that have–that are no longer existed because owners have retired and moved on. But I also have to accept the fact that we’re driving the change. But it’s also good change, too. I mean I look at VietFive Coffee in the West Loop. You know, I look at what Tuấn Huỳnh (Tuan Huynh) is doing about with his coffee shop, how he’s bringing the story of his experiences and how he’s turning it into something that’s very special. And it’s very sacred to the story of this coffee shop and what it means. What does Five mean? If you ever get a chance to work with—oh, he’d be a person you would definitely want to interview. But he’s going to be on my show tomorrow. Oh, he’s on my show tomorrow and he’s very profound. But he’s also talking about how he drives the change on his own terms about what he wants to do with the–his narrative. And so, we’re seeing people doing that. I hear this from the Vietnamese Boat People podcast all the time. They’re driving that change. And they’re doing that on their own. So, I think that’s something to take note of. There’s some that will stay distant and not have anything to do with it. That’s okay. But I want to make it okay that whatever stories that we have, it still matters. It still holds true to who we are, and it humanizes us. And we have to humanize our experiences. And that’s part of our culture. It’s part of how once it’s humanized it belongs to us. It’s unbreakable. And it will evolve in our direction in—And it’s going to evolve into something that’s going to be very special. 01:34:56.000 --> 01:35:05.000 Mmm. Yeah. You mentioned you’re nostalgic for some places that have closed. Tell me, what are those places? 01:35:05.000 --> 01:36:02.000 I remember there was a Cambodian music shop that used to be under the viaduct in Asia on Argyle. I can’t remember the name of it. But I remembered going there too—my dad used to buy his cassette tapes all the time over there. I still remember that. There used to be a place called Trung Tín (Trung Tin), used to be where First Sip is now. But that used to be where the—that used to be a place of Vietnamese music where my parents would get their Vietnamese music there. So, I get nostalgic for those specific times because it’s like, you know, that’s where the soundtrack of my parent’s home comes from is through these two stores. It’s very powerful what music can really do. But also, where the source is coming from and how much of that was an identity of this community, too. 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:05.000 What was the name of the second? 01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:10.000 Trung Tin. It’s T-R-U-N-G T-I-N. 01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:24.000 T-I-N. Thank you. (sighs) So, let’s talk about you. You just finished grad school. Tell me what you were studying and what your intentions are. 01:36:24.000 --> 01:37:28.000 Yeah. I recently graduated at DePaul University with my Masters in Nonprofit Management. And I graduated back in December of last year. And so, currently I work for the Y.W.C.A. I work in board development, communications work, workshop program and also fundraising for our yearly event. So, those are three components of my work. And so, I’ve always wanted to go more into like development and fundraising work because I feel like that fits me. I get in front of people all the time. I love event planning. I love to be able to, you know, create narratives that get people to invest in our organization’s work. And so, that’s why I went to grad school because I wanted to develop that skill set. I wanted to develop my further knowledge of non-profits. So, yeah, it’s been quite a journey. I’m glad to be done with grad school. But I’ve learned a lot from that experience. And I’m very thankful for my professors who invested in my growth during that time. 01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:31.000 Yeah. That’s great. Are there any professors you want to mention by name? 01:37:31.000 --> 01:38:15.000 Oh, yeah. Lisa Dietlin, D-I-E-T-L-I-N. Yeah. She actually helped me get my current job. She connected with her friend who is an executive director of the Y.W.C.A. Strong Families Division program. And yeah, Lisa’s been—I learned a lot from her about when it came to fundraising. I feel like I learned so much from her, you know. She just knew how to find ways to talk to donors and she knew how to, you know, understand donor language and what it means to build relationships and so I learned a lot from her. So, definitely one of my favorite professors. 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:29.000 That’s great. And for—Or, what do you—Do you plan to stay at the Y.W.C.A. for a while or do you have other bigger goals in the future? 01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:45.000 I think that I will always revisit these situations every few years. I would like to grow with the organization, but I also have to like revisit every few years to see where I’m at, you know. And what does that mean. 01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:48.000 Mm-hmm. Sure. You never know where life will take you. 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:51.000 Right. 01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:58.000 I think when you and I met, you were on the board of the Cambodian Museum. 01:38:58.000 --> 01:38:59.000 Mm-hmm. Yes. 01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:00.000 Is that the full name of the museum? 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:06.000 Not the full name but it is what we usually call it, so it’s fine. It’s the National Cambodian Heritage Museum. 01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:12.000 Okay. Thank you. So, tell me about the work that you did with them and what it meant to you. 01:39:12.000 --> 01:40:39.000 (sighs) Let’s see. Well, I’ve been with the board since 2016. And this is going to be my last year. So, I’ve had a pretty long, lengthy run with it. I’ve done community outreach. I have done raising money, volunteering work. So, I feel like I’ve kind of touched on different parts of the museum. I’m not a person—I mean people get the impression that I work as a full-time job. That’s not my job. My job as a board member is to raise money to raise visibility about the museum. But that’s been something that I’ve enjoyed doing because for a while people had no idea that the museum existed, especially even in the Cambodian communities, whether it’s here or in Long Beach or in other places nationally. And so, it’s been kind of fun to be the point of contact, you know. When a Cambodian person is visiting Chicago, they’ll reach out to me and be like “Hey, do you know any other places? I would like to check out the museum. Can you tell me a little bit more about it?” And I’m always happy to have that discussion. And it tells me that, you know, I’m doing my part to raise that visibility day by day and—But yeah. It’s certainly been very rewarding and certainly allowed me to understand the Cambodian community on a national level and also on a local level, too. So, it’s been–it’s gifted me a lot of opportunities, I must say. 01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:43.000 That’s wonderful. How did you get involved with them to begin with? 01:40:43.000 --> 01:42:21.000 It’s a good story. I was approached by my friend Liz. She wanted me to join the board, and I had some hesitations. The reason why I had hesitations was that I felt like I did not do enough work in the community. I was still very insular. I was just not really involved enough. And I wasn’t sure how they would handle a queer Vietnamese Cambodian person in that space. I was very cautious of that. I wasn’t sure how they would—how older board members would feel about that. And I told Liz that I don’t know if I’m that person but I’m going to give—But I—But the funny thing was I was going to visit my dad for the first time in like four years. And I told Liz, “Well, let me tell you this. I’m going to see my dad because I feel like if I have not done any reconciliation of any kind, or attempted reconciliation with my dad, how can I work with the board? If I have not figured that part out, you know?” I felt that was very important. “So, I’m going to tell—Like I’m going to tell you how I feel about it once I visit him and then I’ll give you an answer.” So, when I visited my dad, I actually decided that I also wanted to look at the photo books. I—Something with the photo albums just kept prompting me that I needed to see it. 01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:22.000 Are these your dad’s photo albums? 01:42:22.000 --> 01:44:21.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Family and my dad’s too. So, you know, after visiting with my dad and I don’t want to get into that because it’s a whole ‘nother story, but I came back home and I was looking in one of the photo albums. I saw an envelope just drop out. And I looked at it and I was like “Okay. This is interesting.” So, I looked at it. And it was a letter from the U.S. Embassy of Thailand. And it was a thank you letter to my dad. And it was written in 1976. So, it was about a few months after the Khmer Rouge started. And they talk—And it thanked him for helping, I want to say 7500 Cambodian refugees get into the United States. He did that work. He did the vetting to get them in. It was very emotional for me to get that letter, because for a long time I never saw my dad as a heroic figure at any point in my life. I did not. But I felt like as a twenty-two-year-old, so if this is what he accomplished, and he did it with all of the trauma that he went through, he did it for the people. Yeah. I looked at it. I was very overwhelmed by it. So, I wanted to honor him. I wanted to honor that work. Because that letter showed me that he did something that was very special that changed the lives of many Cambodians. There are some Cambodian folks that he knows. I mean my dad doesn’t really talk to them, but they’ll talk to my mom instead. And they still want to thank him. So, I felt like it would make sense to join the board. And that’s how I joined the board. Because I saw that as a sign that I need to continue that work, to honor that. But also, it’s my way of reconciling with myself too. 01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:27.000 Yeah. Yeah. Wow, what an incredible thing to learn about your dad. 01:44:27.000 --> 01:44:32.000 Yep. 01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:51.000 Second to last question. Unless you say something really interesting, in which I may have to— (both chuckle) I want to know if there are any people in the Vietnamese American community that you really admire, Vietnamese or Vietnamese American. 01:44:51.000 --> 01:46:18.000 Hhhmm. There’s just too many. I don’t know if I could even have names because I’m going to miss more. Because if I say a name, I’m going to have even more names. (Ho chuckles) I’m proud of everyone that I’ve come across. I’ve come across poets. I’ve come across authors. I’ve come across educators. I’ve come across people from all walks of life that have really inspired me. And some of them have been fortunate to be my guests on my show that I have been very privileged, very, very privileged to hold their stories and to be that person that they can trust. I’m very proud of them. I’m proud of my family members. Some of them became college graduates for the first time. Some have gone on to get their master’s recently. I’m proud. I’m very proud of where we’re taking this, you know? I’m sure I have my disagreements with other members of the community on a political level, or with the Cambodian community, I know that I have my polarizing moments here and there. But I’m proud as a collective. I’m proud that we are doing our best to honor our family’s history, to advance and evolve our history as well. So, I’m very proud of that. 01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:34.000 Thank you. Okay. And finally, is there anything I did not ask but I should have asked. Or is there anything you want to add, anything at all for the historical record? 01:46:34.000 --> 01:47:06.000 I think historically speaking, I think for the record, I think as I’m about to turn forty, I’m very proud of where—of how long I’ve come a way. I hold a lot of appreciation for myself. And I hold a lot of appreciation for those who have been on the journey with me too and that I’ve learned a lot from. So, been very thankful along the way and it’s been a heck of a journey and I hope it continues on for a long–for a little while longer. 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:15.000 Yeah. Thanks Randy! You’ve been really—When I think of Chicago community leaders, I absolutely think of you. Like your name comes to mind, definitely. 01:47:15.000 --> 01:47:16.000 Thank you. 01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:22.000 I mean, when I was living here, you were such an important part of me getting to know the community and being a part of it. So, I appreciate your presence. 01:47:22.000 --> 01:47:48.000 Yeah. It’s weird because I never really like to call myself a leader, I never do. But I just happen to do work that just compels me and, you know, if some, for some peop–for some others they see that as leadership, I’m not going to fight that. But, you know, I’m–I’ve been very grateful that has touched people along the way and that people feel compelled to do things similar or do different things because of, you know, what my work has done. 01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:51.000 Yeah. All right. Thank you, Randy. 01:47:51.000 --> 00:00:00.000 No problem. Thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
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Dublin Core
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Title
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Kim, Randy. Interview April 22nd, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Randy Kim is a speaker, storyteller, podcaster and non-profit professional based in Chicago. In this interview, he talks about his life experiences as a queer Vietnamese-Khmer American, including his childhood, background, and creative work. Randy also speaks on his relationship with his family members and the people he has met who have impacted his life for the better.
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SC027-105
Date
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2023-04-22
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video
Creator
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Randy Kim
Contributor
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Jennifer Ho
Subject
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Vietnamese diaspora; Refugees; Ethnic identity; Vietnam; Cambodia
Coverage
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Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia)
Chicago (Ill.)
Vietnam
Cambodia
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright.</a>
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Randy Kim
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Children of Refugees
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d4315443b6336aabbeedde911dfcbdc3.pdf
9388b7ae5e517c8d87c7ab3adf1ac9ef
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Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
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Kim, Randy. Interview transcript, April 22, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Randy Kim is a speaker, storyteller, podcaster and non-profit professional based in Chicago. In this interview, he talks about his life experiences as a queer Vietnamese-Khmer American, including his childhood, background, and creative work. Randy also speaks on his relationship with his family members and the people he has met who have impacted his life for the better.
This oral history was made possible with generous funding from the CSUSM Faculty Center's Professional Development Grant.
Creator
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Randy Kim
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Melissa Martin
Jennifer Ho
Date
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2023-04-22
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
Rights
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright.</a>
Rights Holder
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Randy Kim
Format
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text
Identifier
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KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_transcript
Subject
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Vietnamese diaspora; Refugees; Ethnic identity; Vietnam; Cambodia
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia)
Chicago (Ill.)
Vietnam
Cambodia
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Children of Refugees