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Tanis Brown: Okay. So, today is February 2nd, 2023, and this is a part of the North County Oral
History Initiative. My name is Tanis Brown, and today I will be interviewing Sharon Jenkins. So,
hi Sharon. Thanks very much for coming in today. You and I have been friends for a long time,
but there are some things about you that I don’t really know. So, I’d like to find out a little bit
more about your San Marcos story.
Sharon Jenkins: Right. Thanks for having me, Tanis. This—I’m excited you’re doing this.
Brown: Good. Well, I’d like to start from the beginning. Where were you born, Sharon?
Jenkins: I was born in Quincy, Massachusetts—
Brown: Oh my gosh.
Jenkins: —and I moved from Quincy when I was very young. I don’t even know how young,
less than five. And I moved to Scituate, Massachusetts. And I lived there until 1971, when we
moved to San Marcos.
Brown: Okay. So, you came to San Marcos in 1971, and would you still have been going to
school at that time?
Jenkins: So, yes. I started San Marcos High School in 1971 as a freshman.
Brown: Okay. And the school was just ten years old at that time, so—
Jenkins: Yes.
Brown: —it was a new school.
Jenkins: Yes, very small.
Brown: How many students in the–in the graduating class, Sharon?
Jenkins: So, I don’t remember the number. I would guess maybe less than two hundred.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: I know when we graduated, we could sit on the visitor’s side of the bleachers in the old
gym.
Brown: (chuckles)
Jenkins: So, that’s how small we were.
Brown: Okay. Did you have a football team and everything, and—
Jenkins: We had a football team, yes, yes.
Brown: All right. So, any changes between the east coast and coming to the west coast?
Jenkins: I think I was so young that I probably didn’t understand what those changes were.
�Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: Um, I remembered it–I remembered feeling like it was very, um, —things were very
scattered here, and–and not very busy.
Brown: Oh, compared to the east coast.
Jenkins: Right, right.
Brown: Interesting. Um, so other than changing coasts, do you have any other childhood
memories that stick out in your mind that maybe you carry forward today, or any traits about
yourself?
Jenkins: I would say, as far as high school and that era, um, making–making friends that some of
them I still have as friends today.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: San Marcos was very small back then. So, um, there was a lot of people connected and,
even though we’re much larger today, a lot of those connections are still in place. When I moved
here there were, I believe, less than 10,000 people in San Marcos.
Brown: Wow. That’s so cool. And you actually moved to Lake San Marcos when you first came
here?
Jenkins: Yes, I did. I moved to Lake San Marcos. Um, that’s where my parents purchased a
house. And my dad was a pilot and commuted to L.A. when he needed to fly. And, um, he
decided on Lake San Marcos because he felt that it was such a great, safe community. And he
had a friend in Escondido who told him that San Marcos had a new high school and had a very
good reputation. So, that’s another reason why he–he picked San Marcos.
Brown: Okay. Oh, that’s interesting. So, Lake San Marcos was kind of an entity unto itself when
it was first constructed and was highly touted as a–a kind of upscale community. Did you–did
you notice any of that growing up in terms of–of students or residents of San Marcos? Did you
always feel yourself a part of the community of San Marcos?
Jenkins: Yes, always. So, when I moved there, as I look back, I think there were less than five
children living in Lake San Marcos, because it was a retirement community back then. And most
of the homes that are there today were not there. It was m–majority was empty lots that homes
hadn’t been constructed yet—
Brown: Okay
Jenkins: —um, along the streets. (nods her head)
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: So, I think the big thing I noticed, um, was very few—in fact, I don’t eve–I think I only
knew one or two—other kids that lived there, but always felt it was a part of San Marcos to me.
(nods her head again)
�Brown: Okay. That’s great. Okay. So, just in terms of the overall community of San Marcos back
in 1971 and during your high school years, wha–what were the big deals? What was–what was
the city like at that time for you growing up?
Jenkins: Um, I was—since I was new to the community—I didn’t have some of the connections
that many of the other kids had that had been through school from however young. Um, so I
think some of the connections were um, um, you know, as you made friends, hanging out with
those friends, I remember a teacher encouraged my mom, “Get her involved in something.” And
I think I was on the tennis team for a year. (chuckles) Um, never play tennis. But the whole thing
was, you know, the staff at that time was to get kids involved in–in things. Um, Friday night
football was a big deal back then and um, um, just hanging out with whatever friends you had.
Brown: Mm-hmm. So, in the community, though, did your parents get involved in the
community? Were they involved in Kiwanis and Rotary and that kind of thing?
Jenkins: No.
Brown: Were those organizations available at that time, or—
Jenkins: I don’t know. I s–assume so.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: No. They were involved in playing golf. (laughs)
Brown: Okay. Okay. And that was a big thing in Lake San Marcos—
Jenkins: Yes!
Brown: —to play golf. They had, what, an executive course?
Jenkins: I don’t think they had the executive course then.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: But they did have the big course, and I’m sure that was one of the reasons why my dad
selected there, too, because they both played golf.
Brown: All right.
Jenkins: And I played golf too. My dad taught me–started to teach me, um, when I was about
nine. And, um–and so I would go out and play. There was a couple of people–a couple kids at
that time, and another gal and I would go out and play periodically.
Brown: Okay. So, today San Marcos is fairly well-known for its colleges. We have Palomar
Community College and Cal State San Marcos. After graduating from high school, did–did
you—you might not of even had those opportunities, although Palomar, I think, was here at that
point in time. Where–what did you do after high school, after graduating from high school?
Jenkins: So, I graduated from high school and went to Palomar College because it had such a
great reputation back then as it does now. I went to Palomar, and then, um, transferred to San
Diego State. But it was right around the time—actually, I think that I was going on campus to
�San Diego, and then as I got closer to finishing—it took me much longer than two years, because
I worked. But, as I got closer to finishing, they started to have some remote classes in North
County, and I think a couple of classes I went to—one was in the–a middle school in Vista, on a
Saturday, I think, and another one was in, um, a business class from an—off of Furniture Row.
So, San Diego—so, Cal State San Marcos wasn’t here, but they had started to expand some
opportunities for the No–North County kids. So, it wasn’t a lot of classes, but it was just enough
that you could take a couple and not have to commute to San Diego.
Brown: All right. Great. So, you finished up at–at San Diego State, and did you have a vocation
or an avocation in mind, um, while you were going to college?
Jenkins: Business.
Brown: Business.
Jenkins: Yes. I focused on business administration and accounting at the time.
Brown: Okay. And you said you were–you worked your way through college? You were
working while you were going to college.
Jenkins: I worked while I went to college. I ended up, um—after I left Palomar—I always
worked part-time. After I left Palomar, I think I might have started to work full-time and then I
took classes at night, and would commute down to San Diego State at night, a couple of nights a
week.
Brown: Oh. So, you had a busy life, even back then.
Jenkins: Yes.
Brown: (laughs) Wow, that’s great. So, commuting to school—what was driving to San Diego
State from San Marcos like? What–how–what was the timeframe?
Jenkins: So, I always thought it was a good, um, a good travel time if I could do it in about thirty
minutes. (both of them chuckle) Most of the time it was more than that. But it depended, you
know. If it was a class that ended at nine o’clock, then you could pretty much get home within
thirty minutes or so.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: But there definitely were times of the day when it was more difficult to get there, even
back then! That would have been in the, um, let’s see, probably the late seventies.
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: So. And the freeways weren’t as big as they are today.
Brown: Right.
Jenkins: But we didn’t have as many cars back then.
Brown: Okay. So, then after graduation did you look for employment in, locally, or interested in
going someplace else?
�Jenkins: So, while I was in high school, my first job during high school after my sophomore year
was working at Taco Bell in Escondido. And then–um, and then I started my junior year and then
I was an aide for one of the high school counselors and he had a neighbor who had a business in
Escondido. And he said, “Sharon, you–this–my neighbor is looking for some work. Why don’t
you go see if they could–if, you know–apply for a job there.” And that was the summer after my
junior year. So, I worked the summer after my junior year at the company, and then when my
senior year started, I was only going half-day. And so, I would go to high school in the morning,
and then I would go work in the afternoon. And then I graduated mid-year my senior year. So, I
was able to start Palomar and I still worked part-time for the company. And then, while I was
going to Palomar, I just continued to work part-time and plan my classes accordingly. So, when I
finished college, I conti–started full-time with the company. In fact, I probably started full-time
before a graduated from college and finished college at night. I think that’s how it went.
Brown: Wow. So, you were a working woman early on.
Jenkins: Very early.
Brown: Yeah. And did you stay in the accounting field for a long time?
Jenkins: Yes. Most of my work there was office type work, accounting related work. And then I
worked there for about ten years, and then I applied for, while I was in college, I applied for a
internship, I guess you will, at IBM in San Diego. And so, I was hired to work part-time. I don’t
know what it was called exactly, but similar to a internship. And then I worked a year doing that.
And then–and then after that year, I started full-time there and I stayed there, um, for probably
early 90s. And then–and then I quit so I could stay home with my kids.
Brown: All right. Wow. Okay. So, when I first met you, you were involved in real estate. How
did that transition happen?
Jenkins: So, I think we actually met earlier than that, when Allan and I were on the school board
together.
Brown: Oh, okay.
Jenkins: Okay? Um, and, um, so I–I stayed home with my kids. Did different part-time things.
Volunteered a lot in the schools. That’s how I met Allan and eventually you. And then as my la–
my second daughter was about to graduate from high school, I thought well what am I going to
do now? And so then a friend said, “Why don’t you think about becoming a realtor?” And I
never gave it a thought. But, I said, “Okay, well, I’ll check into that.” And so, I did that and it–
it’s a way to help people which is what I like to do. And so, it has worked out well. So, I’ve been
doing that for, mm, probably close to seventeen years.
Brown: All right. That’s great. Well, you segued right into the kind of second theme of my
interview questions and that is your very long career in local government, starting with the
school district. And so, my question to you about that is, um, you know, what–what–what
inspired you to get involved beyond the local parent organization in the school district here in
San Marcos?
�Jenkins: So, I think being involved in–in the local parent groups actually was my segue into the
next part. Because I was involved in different parent organizations. I was involved in the 1996
School Board Bond effort. I co-chaired that with two other people. And then after that, once you
volunteer for something, as Dennis well knows, (they both chuckle) you are encouraged to
volunteer for more. And one day somebody caught me in one of the school parking lots and said,
“Have you ever running for the school board?” which I said, “I’ve—No.” And then, so then
finally in 1998, Lucy Gross who was a school board member for a long time which even Allan
knew well, was leaving the board and she–and she also approached me and said, “You know,
you should think about this because of the involvement with the schools.” And so–so I was on
the school board from 1998 until 2012.
Brown: Wow. So, during that time, how much did the school district change in those years?
Jenkins: I would say dramatically, more so towards the last half than the beginning. But San
Marcos was growing considerably then. I want to say, when I first started, there might have
been—I don’t know—maybe eight, maybe ten thousand students. I’d have to go back and look at
that. And now there are cl–close to, you know, approximately twenty [thousand]. So, it was a
very growth intensified time, a lot of schools being built, always financial troubles from–due to
state funding. But somehow, we got it all done.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: And I think during the last, um–you know, during the last five years or so, my term
there is just, I think, when dramatic things change. It was always interesting. I was told, and I–I
didn’t realize this until–until later, but I was told that, um, at different times of an organization,
there’s different priorities. And sometimes it’s a–it’s a school building cycle. Sometimes it’s a
curriculum cycle that you’re working to overcome. Sometimes it’s a financial cycle that you’re
working to overcome. And, um, and so as I look back, I realize when I first got on, it was a
growth cycle. So, it was building. And then later it became more curriculum focused cycle. All–
always–always focused on curriculum, but you–you pick and choose things to make things
happen sooner than later. And so, looking back, I–I–I now see what that very intelligent person
meant.
Brown: So, what was your favorite thing about—or a couple of your favorite things—about
being in a leadership position for a school district?
Jenkins: I would say my colleagues on the school board and staff. I think—you know, we’re
supposed to have the vision at a–at a high level, figure out what those goals are. And then it’s the
staff that makes it happen. And I think San Marcos—both on a school district and city-wide
too—has always had great staff. I think we were lucky. And we had school board members that
kept their focus on the kids and what was best for the kids. We couldn’t always get there as
quickly as we wanted, but eventually we would get there.
Brown: Yeah.
Jenkins: I think also the staff and the–the other electeds, but also, um, some of the things that I–I
find the most memorable to me are buildings, seeing the new schools open. High school
graduations are always great because, you know, it’s a huge success for the kids and the–and the
�staff, to get them to where they were that day. And also, I think the–the two school bonds that we
worked on over the years. Those were—that brought such change to the community, both of
those. And–and as an elected official, sometimes it’s difficult when you have to make really
difficult decisions. But it’s also gratifying when you–when you realize, okay, I made the right
decision. It's difficult, but I made the right decision.
Brown: And you come out on the–on the other end of it feeling really positive.
Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brown: Yeah. That’s good. So, from the school board, then you put your name in to be a city
council representative and that comes with a whole ‘nother group of–of learning curves and–and,
uh, opportunities and challenges. So, any differences between the s–what you were dealing with
on the school board versus the city council?
Jenkins: I would say, um, a couple differences. The–the school district had, probably when I
started, maybe, I don’t know, maybe not even a thousand employees and less than ten schools.
Whereas I think the school district is more complex with a lot of the issues they have to deal
with. I think the city is–just has a smaller scale to it. And the needs are—you’re looking at
different needs than what the school district is looking at. You know, we have, say, two hundred
and some employees and many facilities. But those facilities are, in my mind, are less
complicated than a school facility.
Brown: Oh. Interesting. Wow. So, what was the first year you were elected to the city council?
Jenkins: 2012.
Brown: So, 2012. So, there was no break between the school district and moving right into city
council.
Jenkins: No. I was mid-term—
Brown: Okay.
Jenkins: —in 2012. So, I had two years into my four-year term. And there was a sitting
councilmember who wasn’t running. And so, again, I had a–a couple people approach me and
say, “You know, you should think about this.” And I said, “I know nothing about any of that.” I
said, “I haven’t been on the planning commission. How do I learn all that.” (both of them
chuckle) And so about maybe–maybe about a year, maybe s–not quite six months before the
election, I started to talk to as many people as I could to see, you know, what their thoughts
were. We, at that point, had lost redevelopment money to the state. The state clawed back, I think
it was twenty-some million dollars of redevelopment money, and I had a couple people say,
“Why would you even want to go into that because, you know, there’s a huge situation going on
here.” But I just decided that, after talking to a number of people, that I felt I had good support,
and I thought, you know, I can–I can learn this. I can do this. I had a lot of people that said, you
know, “Come back and talk to me whenever you need to.” And so, I did it.
Brown: Yeah. Were the–was the campaigning different between the school board and the city
council?
�Jenkins: Um, not–not drastically back then. To me it was citywide and to me the school board at
that point in time was also citywide. So, I had–I think I had some name recognition with the
parents and then because of being involved in different things in the district, then that–I think
that gave me a leg up.
Brown: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Jenkins: So, it’s about—yeah, I would say, at that point in time, it was about the same.
Brown: Okay. So, another continuing growth effort in our city over the time that you have been
serving on the city council. So, I’d like to ask you—in that time that you’ve been on which is
like ten years going on a few more years—so, um, looking back on that last ten years, what are
you—I mean—wha–what do you see as the most value that–that the city council and you,
yourself, have been involved in for the–for the community?
Jenkins: Um, I would say doing our best to listen to all residents. We can’t always do what
residents want us to do. That can be a little frustrating because they don’t realize–al–some of
what we do is out of our control. We really push for local control here in San Marcos so that we
make our own decisions. But more and more state, mainly, and federal is–is telling us we have to
do things differently. Or we have to adhere to certain things. And, you know, sometimes we may
feel like that’s not the best thing for our community, but we don’t have a choice.
Brown: Yeah.
Jenkins: Or we’d be sued.
Brown: So, if you had a magic wand today, is there anything in San Marcos that you would
change or–or improve that would make a huge difference or, uh, for our future?
Jenkins: I can’t think of anything right now off the top of my head. Um, I would like to see us,
um—traffic is always a big concern in San Marcos. So, I would say we have continuing efforts
to work on that. It’s not necessarily all about expanding roads. Some of it’s infrastructure and–
and–and other things. So, I would say, um, just trying to keep working through what we can in
that area and we’re working on it. We’re spending lots of money on it. I can’t think of anything
particular. We’re–I’m excited to have the bridges done in a few months. That has been
something that was talked about long before I got on the council. So, I think that would be a–a
big plus to the community to get that traffic flow.
Brown: That’s great. So, Sharon, I would like to kind of conclude this interview with giving you
an opportunity to just—if there’s anything we haven’t covered. I–I do have one more question
that I kind of have been thinking about in terms of my— Knowing you for so many years, one of
the things that I appreciate so much about you is your continually willingness and outreach to all
the people that you’ve known for so long, which is, I’m sure, a growing number every year. How
do you–how do you continue to keep in contact with this growing number of friends and
colleagues that you have grown over the course of your time here in San Marcos?
Jenkins: Um, let’s see. I don’t know. How do any of us do that? I think you just make an effort
to–to get together with people and have meet-ups and, um, see them at different events. I try to,
when things are going on within the city, I try to email people that I know would have an interest
�in that. And almost always I get emails back saying, “Wow. You know, we really appreciate that,
because we don’t–we don’t have access to that. And so, we’re glad to hear about something.”
Just, you know, again just doing your best to try to reach out to people.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: And–and see them when you can.
Brown: Uh-huh. Well, I certainly think that makes you a very effective leader in our community
in terms of keeping in t–touch with the way people feel. And I appreciate it.
Jenkins: Thank you. I think another thing that’s important too is, um, as things have changed in
the recent years, I think it is important for–for future councils and–and to understand that even
though we’re in voting districts, I think it’s important that we represent all of San Marcos.
Brown: Yeah.
Jenkins: Um, I’m in a particular district but I reach out to people in other districts all the time.
Listening is the best thing we can do.
Brown: Mm-hmm.
Jenkins: And responding to questions.
Brown: Yeah. So, in closing, is there anything else you’d like to share with us that we haven’t
covered today, but you’d like our audience to hear.
Jenkins: Let’s see. I would say that I’m just very pleased that I’ve been able to live in one town
for so long. Growing up I, you know, you always think, “Oh, I just want to get out of here.” But
I’m glad that I’ve–I’ve been here as long as I have. I’m glad my daughters—one lives here. Her–
her two children are going to San Marcos schools. In fact, one of them is going to Discovery
Elementary and I was one of the founding PTO board members of that. So, that’s kind of fun to
go back and see that school. And then my other daughter’s nearby in San Diego. So, I think
being able to see them enjoy what’s going on here in North County—that, things that, you know,
I enjoyed growing up. And they’re now realizing that–that it’s a good place.
Brown: Absolutely.
Jenkins: Yeah.
Brown: All right.
Jenkins: Thank you for having me.
Brown: Well, thank you very much for your time today and this concludes our interview for the
North County Oral History Initiative.
�
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Jenkins, Sharon. Interview transcript. February 2, 2023
Description
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Sharon Jenkins was born in Quincy, Massachusetts, grew up in Scituate, Mass., and moved to Lake San Marcos, California in 1971 where she attended San Marcos High School. She was a business major in college; after college she worked in the accounting profession for 15 years. Her involvement as a parent volunteer led her to run for San Marcos City School Board where Jenkins served for 14 years. Jenkins was elected to San Marcos City Council in 2012 and will complete her final term in 2024. She is also a Realtor. The interview focuses primarily on her high school years and her experiences serving on San Marcos' School Board and City Council.
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Sharon Jenkins
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Tanis Brown
Melissa Martin
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2023-02-02
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Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
Public administration -- California -- San Marcos
School boards -- California -- San Marcos
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Tanis Brown
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Sharon Jenkins
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5.4 Jenkins, Sharon. Interview, February 2, 2023 SC027-32 0:34:26 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos Local government -- California -- San Marcos Public administration -- California -- San Marcos School boards -- California -- San Marcos Sharon Jenkins Tanis Brown mp4 JenkinsSharon_BrownTanis_2023-02-02_access.mp4 1:|18(10)|47(8)|69(7)|85(1)|96(5)|114(2)|124(6)|156(2)|167(1)|176(13)|199(9)|222(2)|231(9)|245(8)|253(6)|267(7)|276(7)|285(6)|296(3)|306(11)|318(1)|329(6)|342(11)|351(16)|370(4)|379(10)|391(11)|405(8)|418(11)|428(1)|438(5)|448(14)|473(5)|483(2) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/2fbd5c479eb53fc879b7df28dcab0e80.mp4 Other video English 0 Childhood/ Moving to San Marcos, CA Sharon Jenkins briefly discusses her early childhood in Massachusetts before moving to San Marcos, CA. She grew up in Quincy, MA as a young child before her family moved to Scituate, MA. Her family lived in Scituate until 1971, when they purchased a home in Lake San Marcos. Jenkins explains that her father was a pilot and commuted to Los Angeles, CA for work. Jenkins was a high school freshman when they first arrived to San Marcos and she attended San Marcos High School. She explains that San Marcos High School was only ten years old at the time, and was a small school in the 1970s. She estimates that only two hundred students were in her graduating class. Jenkins also recalls making life-long friends in high school. High school ; Lake San Marcos (Calif.) ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Quincy (Mass.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos High School ; School ; Scituate (Mass.) ; Small community ; Small town ; Students 256 The community of San Marcos, CA Sharon Jenkins describes the new community of San Marcos during the 1970s. As a new student, her teachers encouraged her parents to sign her up for sports teams and other activities, which is how Jenkins became more active in the San Marcos community. She describes feeling connected to the community by socializing with friends at Friday night football games. Jenkins also explains that playing golf was a popular activity in Lake San Marcos. Football games ; Golfl ; High school ; Lake San Marcos (Calif.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos High School ; School ; Small community ; Small town ; Students ; Tennis 480 College education Sharon Jenkins recounts her busy life as a college student. After graduating from San Marcos High School, she enrolled in Palomar College and then transferred to San Diego State University (SDSU). Jenkins majored in business and administration in college. Jenkins also worked throughout her college career, working part-time while attending Palomar College, and then working full-time after transferring to SDSU. She explains that she took night classes when attending SDSU, and she would be fortunate if she made it from San Marcos to SDSU within a thirty-minute commute. She explains that her commutes were usually a much more difficult drive due to the San Diego traffic—even during the 1970s. Business and administration ; Commute ; Commuting ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Palomar College ; San Diego freeways ; San Diego State Univeristy ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Students ; Traffic 700 Career in accounting and real estate Sharon Jenkins describes her career in accounting and real estate. She explains that she began working at an accounting firm part-time the summer after her junior year in high school, and continued working at the firm throughout her education at Palomar College. Jenkins then accepted an internship at IBM in San Diego and worked there for a year while in college, before accepting a full-time position at the company. She stayed at IBM until the early 1990s before leaving the position and becoming a homemaker. Jenkins explains that she later transitioned to the field of real estate after her second daughter graduated from high school. At the time of the interview’s recording, Jenkins has worked in real estate for seventeen years. Accounting ; Accounting firms ; Homemaker ; IBM ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Parenthood ; Real estate ; Realtor ; San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) 966 Involvement in the San Marcos school board Sharon Jenkins recounts her involvement in the local school district of San Marcos. She first became involved in the local parent groups, parent organizations, and the 1996 School Board Bond effort, which she co-chaired with two other individuals. She then joined the school board, and was an active member from 1998 to 2012. Jenkins also reflects on how she has seen the San Marcos school district change over the years. When she first joined the school board, eight to ten thousand students were enrolled in the district, and at the time of the interview’s recording, she explains that approximately twenty thousand are now enrolled. She also explains that the school board also has to tackle many issues, such as financial issues due to the lack of state funding. Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; School ; School board ; School bonds ; School district ; Small community ; Small town ; State funding ; Students 1239 Reflections on being in leadership Sharon Jenkins reflects on being in a leadership position. She explains that she enjoys working with her colleagues on the school board and its staff. She continues that San Marcos is has a great staff and the school board has its best intentions in mind for its students. She also found the opening of new schools and high school graduations to be a very memorable experiences while in the position. Decision making in leadership ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; School ; School board ; Small community ; Small town ; Staff ; Students 1374 Joining the city council Sharon Jenkins discusses her campaign to join the city council in 2012 and the lessons she learned on the campaign trail. She also discusses the differences between working on the city council and in the school district. She notes that the school district was more complex and dealt with a plethora of issues when compared with the city council. She also explains that the school district and city council both had different needs to which needed attending. City council ; City council campaign ; City council election ; City council representative ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos city council ; School board ; School district ; Small community ; Small town ; Students 1628 The value of the city council for the community Sharon Jenkins reflects on the city council’s value to the community of San Marcos. She explains that the city council does its best to listen to its residents and push for local control. She expresses frustration over state and federal government asserting themselves into local governmental matters. Jenkins is also passionate about continuing efforts to fix and expand infrastructure in the city. Bridges ; City council ; City council representative ; Federal government ; Funding ; Infrastructure ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Roads ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; San Marcos city council ; Small community ; Small town ; State government ; Traffic 1813 Final thoughts/Closing of interview Sharon Jenkins concludes the interview by discussing the importance of reaching out to others, whether that being staying in contact with friends in the community or reaching out to individuals in other districts and listening to them and responding to their questions. City council ; City council representative ; Colleagues ; Family ; Friends ; Leadership ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Representation in small districts ; San Diego (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Small community ; Small town ; Staying connected Oral history Sharon Jenkins was born in Quincy, Massachusetts, grew up in Scituate, Mass., and moved to Lake San Marcos, California in 1971 where she attended San Marcos High School. She was a business major in college ; after college she worked in the accounting profession for 15 years. Her involvement as a parent volunteer led her to run for San Marcos City School Board where Jenkins served for 14 years. Jenkins was elected to San Marcos City Council in 2012 and will complete her final term in 2024. She is also a Realtor. The interview focuses primarily on her high school years and her experiences serving on San Marcos' School Board and City Council. Tanis Brown: Okay. So, today is February 2nd, 2023, and this is a part of the North County Oral History Initiative. My name is Tanis Brown, and today I will be interviewing Sharon Jenkins. So, hi Sharon. Thanks very much for coming in today. You and I have been friends for a long time, but there are some things about you that I don' ; t really know. So, I' ; d like to find out a little bit more about your San Marcos story. Sharon Jenkins: Right. Thanks for having me, Tanis. This--I' ; m excited you' ; re doing this. Brown: Good. Well, I' ; d like to start from the beginning. Where were you born, Sharon? Jenkins: I was born in Quincy, Massachusetts-- Brown: Oh my gosh. Jenkins: --and I moved from Quincy when I was very young. I don' ; t even know how young, less than five. And I moved to Scituate, Massachusetts. And I lived there until 1971, when we moved to San Marcos. Brown: Okay. So, you came to San Marcos in 1971, and would you still have been going to school at that time? Jenkins: So, yes. I started San Marcos High School in 1971 as a freshman. Brown: Okay. And the school was just ten years old at that time, so-- Jenkins: Yes. Brown: --it was a new school. Jenkins: Yes, very small. Brown: How many students in the--in the graduating class, Sharon? Jenkins: So, I don' ; t remember the number. I would guess maybe less than two hundred. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: I know when we graduated, we could sit on the visitor' ; s side of the bleachers in the old gym. Brown: (chuckles) Jenkins: So, that' ; s how small we were. Brown: Okay. Did you have a football team and everything, and-- Jenkins: We had a football team, yes, yes. Brown: All right. So, any changes between the east coast and coming to the west coast? Jenkins: I think I was so young that I probably didn' ; t understand what those changes were. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: Um, I remembered it--I remembered feeling like it was very, um, --things were very scattered here, and--and not very busy. Brown: Oh, compared to the east coast. Jenkins: Right, right. Brown: Interesting. Um, so other than changing coasts, do you have any other childhood memories that stick out in your mind that maybe you carry forward today, or any traits about yourself? Jenkins: I would say, as far as high school and that era, um, making--making friends that some of them I still have as friends today. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: San Marcos was very small back then. So, um, there was a lot of people connected and, even though we' ; re much larger today, a lot of those connections are still in place. When I moved here there were, I believe, less than 10,000 people in San Marcos. Brown: Wow. That' ; s so cool. And you actually moved to Lake San Marcos when you first came here? Jenkins: Yes, I did. I moved to Lake San Marcos. Um, that' ; s where my parents purchased a house. And my dad was a pilot and commuted to L.A. when he needed to fly. And, um, he decided on Lake San Marcos because he felt that it was such a great, safe community. And he had a friend in Escondido who told him that San Marcos had a new high school and had a very good reputation. So, that' ; s another reason why he--he picked San Marcos. Brown: Okay. Oh, that' ; s interesting. So, Lake San Marcos was kind of an entity unto itself when it was first constructed and was highly touted as a--a kind of upscale community. Did you--did you notice any of that growing up in terms of--of students or residents of San Marcos? Did you always feel yourself a part of the community of San Marcos? Jenkins: Yes, always. So, when I moved there, as I look back, I think there were less than five children living in Lake San Marcos, because it was a retirement community back then. And most of the homes that are there today were not there. It was m--majority was empty lots that homes hadn' ; t been constructed yet-- Brown: Okay Jenkins: --um, along the streets. (nods her head) Brown: Okay. Jenkins: So, I think the big thing I noticed, um, was very few--in fact, I don' ; t eve--I think I only knew one or two--other kids that lived there, but always felt it was a part of San Marcos to me. (nods her head again) Brown: Okay. That' ; s great. Okay. So, just in terms of the overall community of San Marcos back in 1971 and during your high school years, wha--what were the big deals? What was--what was the city like at that time for you growing up? Jenkins: Um, I was--since I was new to the community--I didn' ; t have some of the connections that many of the other kids had that had been through school from however young. Um, so I think some of the connections were um, um, you know, as you made friends, hanging out with those friends, I remember a teacher encouraged my mom, " ; Get her involved in something." ; And I think I was on the tennis team for a year. (chuckles) Um, never play tennis. But the whole thing was, you know, the staff at that time was to get kids involved in--in things. Um, Friday night football was a big deal back then and um, um, just hanging out with whatever friends you had. Brown: Mm-hmm. So, in the community, though, did your parents get involved in the community? Were they involved in Kiwanis and Rotary and that kind of thing? Jenkins: No. Brown: Were those organizations available at that time, or-- Jenkins: I don' ; t know. I s--assume so. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: No. They were involved in playing golf. (laughs) Brown: Okay. Okay. And that was a big thing in Lake San Marcos-- Jenkins: Yes! Brown: --to play golf. They had, what, an executive course? Jenkins: I don' ; t think they had the executive course then. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: But they did have the big course, and I' ; m sure that was one of the reasons why my dad selected there, too, because they both played golf. Brown: All right. Jenkins: And I played golf too. My dad taught me--started to teach me, um, when I was about nine. And, um--and so I would go out and play. There was a couple of people--a couple kids at that time, and another gal and I would go out and play periodically. Brown: Okay. So, today San Marcos is fairly well-known for its colleges. We have Palomar Community College and Cal State San Marcos. After graduating from high school, did--did you--you might not of even had those opportunities, although Palomar, I think, was here at that point in time. Where--what did you do after high school, after graduating from high school? Jenkins: So, I graduated from high school and went to Palomar College because it had such a great reputation back then as it does now. I went to Palomar, and then, um, transferred to San Diego State. But it was right around the time--actually, I think that I was going on campus to San Diego, and then as I got closer to finishing--it took me much longer than two years, because I worked. But, as I got closer to finishing, they started to have some remote classes in North County, and I think a couple of classes I went to--one was in the--a middle school in Vista, on a Saturday, I think, and another one was in, um, a business class from an--off of Furniture Row. So, San Diego--so, Cal State San Marcos wasn' ; t here, but they had started to expand some opportunities for the No--North County kids. So, it wasn' ; t a lot of classes, but it was just enough that you could take a couple and not have to commute to San Diego. Brown: All right. Great. So, you finished up at--at San Diego State, and did you have a vocation or an avocation in mind, um, while you were going to college? Jenkins: Business. Brown: Business. Jenkins: Yes. I focused on business administration and accounting at the time. Brown: Okay. And you said you were--you worked your way through college? You were working while you were going to college. Jenkins: I worked while I went to college. I ended up, um--after I left Palomar--I always worked part-time. After I left Palomar, I think I might have started to work full-time and then I took classes at night, and would commute down to San Diego State at night, a couple of nights a week. Brown: Oh. So, you had a busy life, even back then. Jenkins: Yes. Brown: (laughs) Wow, that' ; s great. So, commuting to school--what was driving to San Diego State from San Marcos like? What--how--what was the timeframe? Jenkins: So, I always thought it was a good, um, a good travel time if I could do it in about thirty minutes. (both of them chuckle) Most of the time it was more than that. But it depended, you know. If it was a class that ended at nine o' ; clock, then you could pretty much get home within thirty minutes or so. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: But there definitely were times of the day when it was more difficult to get there, even back then! That would have been in the, um, let' ; s see, probably the late seventies. Brown: Okay. Jenkins: So. And the freeways weren' ; t as big as they are today. Brown: Right. Jenkins: But we didn' ; t have as many cars back then. Brown: Okay. So, then after graduation did you look for employment in, locally, or interested in going someplace else? Jenkins: So, while I was in high school, my first job during high school after my sophomore year was working at Taco Bell in Escondido. And then--um, and then I started my junior year and then I was an aide for one of the high school counselors and he had a neighbor who had a business in Escondido. And he said, " ; Sharon, you--this--my neighbor is looking for some work. Why don' ; t you go see if they could--if, you know--apply for a job there." ; And that was the summer after my junior year. So, I worked the summer after my junior year at the company, and then when my senior year started, I was only going half-day. And so, I would go to high school in the morning, and then I would go work in the afternoon. And then I graduated mid-year my senior year. So, I was able to start Palomar and I still worked part-time for the company. And then, while I was going to Palomar, I just continued to work part-time and plan my classes accordingly. So, when I finished college, I conti--started full-time with the company. In fact, I probably started full-time before a graduated from college and finished college at night. I think that' ; s how it went. Brown: Wow. So, you were a working woman early on. Jenkins: Very early. Brown: Yeah. And did you stay in the accounting field for a long time? Jenkins: Yes. Most of my work there was office type work, accounting related work. And then I worked there for about ten years, and then I applied for, while I was in college, I applied for a internship, I guess you will, at IBM in San Diego. And so, I was hired to work part-time. I don' ; t know what it was called exactly, but similar to a internship. And then I worked a year doing that. And then--and then after that year, I started full-time there and I stayed there, um, for probably early 90s. And then--and then I quit so I could stay home with my kids. Brown: All right. Wow. Okay. So, when I first met you, you were involved in real estate. How did that transition happen? Jenkins: So, I think we actually met earlier than that, when Allan and I were on the school board together. Brown: Oh, okay. Jenkins: Okay? Um, and, um, so I--I stayed home with my kids. Did different part-time things. Volunteered a lot in the schools. That' ; s how I met Allan and eventually you. And then as my la--my second daughter was about to graduate from high school, I thought well what am I going to do now? And so then a friend said, " ; Why don' ; t you think about becoming a realtor?" ; And I never gave it a thought. But, I said, " ; Okay, well, I' ; ll check into that." ; And so, I did that and it--it' ; s a way to help people which is what I like to do. And so, it has worked out well. So, I' ; ve been doing that for, mm, probably close to seventeen years. Brown: All right. That' ; s great. Well, you segued right into the kind of second theme of my interview questions and that is your very long career in local government, starting with the school district. And so, my question to you about that is, um, you know, what--what--what inspired you to get involved beyond the local parent organization in the school district here in San Marcos? Jenkins: So, I think being involved in--in the local parent groups actually was my segue into the next part. Because I was involved in different parent organizations. I was involved in the 1996 School Board Bond effort. I co-chaired that with two other people. And then after that, once you volunteer for something, as Dennis well knows, (they both chuckle) you are encouraged to volunteer for more. And one day somebody caught me in one of the school parking lots and said, " ; Have you ever running for the school board?" ; which I said, " ; I' ; ve--No." ; And then, so then finally in 1998, Lucy Gross who was a school board member for a long time which even Allan knew well, was leaving the board and she--and she also approached me and said, " ; You know, you should think about this because of the involvement with the schools." ; And so--so I was on the school board from 1998 until 2012. Brown: Wow. So, during that time, how much did the school district change in those years? Jenkins: I would say dramatically, more so towards the last half than the beginning. But San Marcos was growing considerably then. I want to say, when I first started, there might have been--I don' ; t know--maybe eight, maybe ten thousand students. I' ; d have to go back and look at that. And now there are cl--close to, you know, approximately twenty [thousand]. So, it was a very growth intensified time, a lot of schools being built, always financial troubles from--due to state funding. But somehow, we got it all done. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: And I think during the last, um--you know, during the last five years or so, my term there is just, I think, when dramatic things change. It was always interesting. I was told, and I--I didn' ; t realize this until--until later, but I was told that, um, at different times of an organization, there' ; s different priorities. And sometimes it' ; s a--it' ; s a school building cycle. Sometimes it' ; s a curriculum cycle that you' ; re working to overcome. Sometimes it' ; s a financial cycle that you' ; re working to overcome. And, um, and so as I look back, I realize when I first got on, it was a growth cycle. So, it was building. And then later it became more curriculum focused cycle. All--always--always focused on curriculum, but you--you pick and choose things to make things happen sooner than later. And so, looking back, I--I--I now see what that very intelligent person meant. Brown: So, what was your favorite thing about--or a couple of your favorite things--about being in a leadership position for a school district? Jenkins: I would say my colleagues on the school board and staff. I think--you know, we' ; re supposed to have the vision at a--at a high level, figure out what those goals are. And then it' ; s the staff that makes it happen. And I think San Marcos--both on a school district and city-wide too--has always had great staff. I think we were lucky. And we had school board members that kept their focus on the kids and what was best for the kids. We couldn' ; t always get there as quickly as we wanted, but eventually we would get there. Brown: Yeah. Jenkins: I think also the staff and the--the other electeds, but also, um, some of the things that I--I find the most memorable to me are buildings, seeing the new schools open. High school graduations are always great because, you know, it' ; s a huge success for the kids and the--and the staff, to get them to where they were that day. And also, I think the--the two school bonds that we worked on over the years. Those were--that brought such change to the community, both of those. And--and as an elected official, sometimes it' ; s difficult when you have to make really difficult decisions. But it' ; s also gratifying when you--when you realize, okay, I made the right decision. It' ; s difficult, but I made the right decision. Brown: And you come out on the--on the other end of it feeling really positive. Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brown: Yeah. That' ; s good. So, from the school board, then you put your name in to be a city council representative and that comes with a whole ' ; nother group of--of learning curves and--and, uh, opportunities and challenges. So, any differences between the s--what you were dealing with on the school board versus the city council? Jenkins: I would say, um, a couple differences. The--the school district had, probably when I started, maybe, I don' ; t know, maybe not even a thousand employees and less than ten schools. Whereas I think the school district is more complex with a lot of the issues they have to deal with. I think the city is--just has a smaller scale to it. And the needs are--you' ; re looking at different needs than what the school district is looking at. You know, we have, say, two hundred and some employees and many facilities. But those facilities are, in my mind, are less complicated than a school facility. Brown: Oh. Interesting. Wow. So, what was the first year you were elected to the city council? Jenkins: 2012. Brown: So, 2012. So, there was no break between the school district and moving right into city council. Jenkins: No. I was mid-term-- Brown: Okay. Jenkins: --in 2012. So, I had two years into my four-year term. And there was a sitting councilmember who wasn' ; t running. And so, again, I had a--a couple people approach me and say, " ; You know, you should think about this." ; And I said, " ; I know nothing about any of that." ; I said, " ; I haven' ; t been on the planning commission. How do I learn all that." ; (both of them chuckle) And so about maybe--maybe about a year, maybe s--not quite six months before the election, I started to talk to as many people as I could to see, you know, what their thoughts were. We, at that point, had lost redevelopment money to the state. The state clawed back, I think it was twenty-some million dollars of redevelopment money, and I had a couple people say, " ; Why would you even want to go into that because, you know, there' ; s a huge situation going on here." ; But I just decided that, after talking to a number of people, that I felt I had good support, and I thought, you know, I can--I can learn this. I can do this. I had a lot of people that said, you know, " ; Come back and talk to me whenever you need to." ; And so, I did it. Brown: Yeah. Were the--was the campaigning different between the school board and the city council? Jenkins: Um, not--not drastically back then. To me it was citywide and to me the school board at that point in time was also citywide. So, I had--I think I had some name recognition with the parents and then because of being involved in different things in the district, then that--I think that gave me a leg up. Brown: Mm-hmm. Okay. Jenkins: So, it' ; s about--yeah, I would say, at that point in time, it was about the same. Brown: Okay. So, another continuing growth effort in our city over the time that you have been serving on the city council. So, I' ; d like to ask you--in that time that you' ; ve been on which is like ten years going on a few more years--so, um, looking back on that last ten years, what are you--I mean--wha--what do you see as the most value that--that the city council and you, yourself, have been involved in for the--for the community? Jenkins: Um, I would say doing our best to listen to all residents. We can' ; t always do what residents want us to do. That can be a little frustrating because they don' ; t realize--al--some of what we do is out of our control. We really push for local control here in San Marcos so that we make our own decisions. But more and more state, mainly, and federal is--is telling us we have to do things differently. Or we have to adhere to certain things. And, you know, sometimes we may feel like that' ; s not the best thing for our community, but we don' ; t have a choice. Brown: Yeah. Jenkins: Or we' ; d be sued. Brown: So, if you had a magic wand today, is there anything in San Marcos that you would change or--or improve that would make a huge difference or, uh, for our future? Jenkins: I can' ; t think of anything right now off the top of my head. Um, I would like to see us, um--traffic is always a big concern in San Marcos. So, I would say we have continuing efforts to work on that. It' ; s not necessarily all about expanding roads. Some of it' ; s infrastructure and--and--and other things. So, I would say, um, just trying to keep working through what we can in that area and we' ; re working on it. We' ; re spending lots of money on it. I can' ; t think of anything particular. We' ; re--I' ; m excited to have the bridges done in a few months. That has been something that was talked about long before I got on the council. So, I think that would be a--a big plus to the community to get that traffic flow. Brown: That' ; s great. So, Sharon, I would like to kind of conclude this interview with giving you an opportunity to just--if there' ; s anything we haven' ; t covered. I--I do have one more question that I kind of have been thinking about in terms of my-- Knowing you for so many years, one of the things that I appreciate so much about you is your continually willingness and outreach to all the people that you' ; ve known for so long, which is, I' ; m sure, a growing number every year. How do you--how do you continue to keep in contact with this growing number of friends and colleagues that you have grown over the course of your time here in San Marcos? Jenkins: Um, let' ; s see. I don' ; t know. How do any of us do that? I think you just make an effort to--to get together with people and have meet-ups and, um, see them at different events. I try to, when things are going on within the city, I try to email people that I know would have an interest in that. And almost always I get emails back saying, " ; Wow. You know, we really appreciate that, because we don' ; t--we don' ; t have access to that. And so, we' ; re glad to hear about something." ; Just, you know, again just doing your best to try to reach out to people. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: And--and see them when you can. Brown: Uh-huh. Well, I certainly think that makes you a very effective leader in our community in terms of keeping in t--touch with the way people feel. And I appreciate it. Jenkins: Thank you. I think another thing that' ; s important too is, um, as things have changed in the recent years, I think it is important for--for future councils and--and to understand that even though we' ; re in voting districts, I think it' ; s important that we represent all of San Marcos. Brown: Yeah. Jenkins: Um, I' ; m in a particular district but I reach out to people in other districts all the time. Listening is the best thing we can do. Brown: Mm-hmm. Jenkins: And responding to questions. Brown: Yeah. So, in closing, is there anything else you' ; d like to share with us that we haven' ; t covered today, but you' ; d like our audience to hear. Jenkins: Let' ; s see. I would say that I' ; m just very pleased that I' ; ve been able to live in one town for so long. Growing up I, you know, you always think, " ; Oh, I just want to get out of here." ; But I' ; m glad that I' ; ve--I' ; ve been here as long as I have. I' ; m glad my daughters--one lives here. Her--her two children are going to San Marcos schools. In fact, one of them is going to Discovery Elementary and I was one of the founding PTO board members of that. So, that' ; s kind of fun to go back and see that school. And then my other daughter' ; s nearby in San Diego. So, I think being able to see them enjoy what' ; s going on here in North County--that, things that, you know, I enjoyed growing up. And they' ; re now realizing that--that it' ; s a good place. Brown: Absolutely. Jenkins: Yeah. Brown: All right. Jenkins: Thank you for having me. Brown: Well, thank you very much for your time today and this concludes our interview for the North County Oral History Initiative. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=JenkinsSharon_BrownTanis_2023-02-02_access.xml JenkinsSharon_BrownTanis_2023-02-02_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
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Jenkins, Sharon. Interview, February 2, 2023
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Sharon Jenkins was born in Quincy, Massachusetts, grew up in Scituate, Mass., and moved to Lake San Marcos, California in 1971 where she attended San Marcos High School. She was a business major in college; after college she worked in the accounting profession for 15 years. Her involvement as a parent volunteer led her to run for San Marcos City School Board where Jenkins served for 14 years. Jenkins was elected to San Marcos City Council in 2012 and will complete her final term in 2024. She is also a Realtor. The interview focuses primarily on her high school years and her experiences serving on San Marcos' School Board and City Council.
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SC027-33
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Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
Public administration -- California -- San Marcos
School boards -- California -- San Marcos
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2023-02-02
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video
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Sharon Jenkins
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Tanis Brown
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Sharon Jenkins
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Moving image
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
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Ayana Ford
Interviewee
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Jamaéla Johnson
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=JohnsonJamaela_FordAyana_2021-04-30_access.xml
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CSUSM Alumni;Black Student Center;Black Alumni;Black Hair Movement;, Black Lives Matter;Historically Black Colleges and Universities
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6.0 Johnson, Jamaéla. Interview April 30th, 2021. SC027-06 01:27:19 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Black Student Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm CSUSM Alumni ; Black Student Center ; Black Alumni ; Black Hair Movement ; , Black Lives Matter ; Historically Black Colleges and Universities Jamaéla Johnson Ayana Ford moving image JohnsonJamaela_FordAyana_2021-04-30_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d1cb5006f34388220bea424317dbad95.mp4 Other video 0 Introduction Oral history interview of Jamaéla Johnson, April 30th, 2021, by Ayana Ford, University Library, California State University San Marcos. 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 41 Childhood Johnson briefly discusses her childhood in southeastern region of San Diego and her appreciation for growing up with people who look like her. southeastern San Diego ; only child ; culturally dense 0 [""] 128 Discovering an understanding of Blackness Johnson speaks about how her experience in school including her first teachers of color contributed to her belief that she was capable of excelling in education. values ; gifted and talented education ; GATE ; academics ; teachers of color ; potential 0 ["[\"\"]"] 284 Learning about Black history and the Black experience in childhood and adolescence Johnson talks about her exposure to Black history in school, which was superficial at first but became deeper as she as she got into high school and joined the Black Coal and Rose Society. Black history ; Rosa Parks ; Malcom X ; Black Coal and Rose Society ; Black History Month ; Garrett Morgan ; Ida B. Wells ; Civil Rights Movement ; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 0 ["[\"[\\\"[\\\\\\\"[\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"[\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"]\\\\\\\"]\\\"]\"]"] 493 Personal impact of Black activism and social justice movements Johnson reflects on how the Civil Rights Movement, Black feminism, and the natural hair movement played an important part in her identity development. Civil Rights Movement ; natural hair movement ; Black feminism ; Women's Center, Gender Equity Center, Historically Black Colleges and Universities ; HBCUs 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1314 Impact of the Black Lives Matter movement Johnson discusses her early recollections of the Black Lives Matter movement, with the death of Trayvon Martin. She talks about the impact of police brutality and her identity formation around being a Black student in a predominantly white institution. Black Lives Matter ; Trayvon Martin trial ; police brutality ; predominantly white institution 0 [""] 1590 Johnson’s role in the establishment of the Black Student Center Johnson speaks about her role as Vice President of Student University Affairs for Associate Students Incorporated (ASI) and how this role afforded her the ability to listen to students needs and understand their desires for a Black Student Center. She was able to then convey this information to the campus administration. During this time, she was also a member of the first all-women of color executive team for ASI. Black Student Center ; Associated Students Incorporated ; diversity and inclusion ; student advocacy ; Tiffaney Boyd ; Bianca Garcia ; Black African American fraternities and sororities ; leadership ; women of color 0 [""] 2080 Vision of the students and faculty for the Black Student Center Johnson discusses the top three priorities for a Black Student Center: community, mentorship, and scholarship. community ; mentorship ; scholarship ; vision ; Black Student Center 0 [""] 2289 University Administration’s vision for the Black Student Center Johnson speaks about two administrative priorities for the Black Student Center: acknowledging student voices and creating a vehicle for student success of some of CSUSM’s most vulnerable populations. She also discusses other campus centers that could be used as a blueprint for the Black Student Center. student success ; resolution ; blueprint ; Women's Center ; Gender Equity Center ; LGBTQ Pride Center ; California Indian Culture and Sovereignty Center ; Latinx Center 0 [""] 2452 Opposition to the creation of the Black Student Center Johnson reflects on the opposing viewpoints and tensions preceding the approval of the Black Student Center. During this time, ASI passed a resolution in favor of creating a Black Student Center but not without opposing viewpoints being shared. A list of demands was also created and sent to University administration. Black Student Center ; resistance to change ; finances ; Compton Cookout ; Black Lives Matter ; Black Power movement ; Black Student Union ; demands ; resolution ; opposing views ; task force ; Associated Students Incorporated ; heightened police presence 0 [""] 3334 The process of opening the Black Student Center Johnson discusses the lead up to the opening of the Black Student Center, including the development of a task force, budget approval, and allocated physical space. task force ; budget ; Black Student Center ; University Student Union ; physical space ; renovation 0 [""] 3561 The Black Student Center Grand Opening Johnson reflects on the grand opening of the Center, her transition from student to staff, and sitting in on the first Black Student Center director search. grand opening ; rewarding ; transition to staff ; Akilah Green ; Tiffaney Boyd ; director 0 [""] 3676 Leaders on the Black Student Center project, their contributions, and unsung heroes Johnson lists organizations and people who were instrumental in the development of the Black Student Center and reflects on the connections she made through the process. Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán ; MEChA ; Kai Guzman ; Dr. Sharon Elise ; Geoffrey Gilmore ; Dr. Dang Chonwerawong ; Akilah Green ; Tiffaney Boyd ; Bianca Garcia ; Louis Adamsel ; Jake Northington ; Daniel Fare ; Dr. Lorena Checa ; President Karen Haynes ; graduation ; connections 0 [""] 4033 Early focus of the Black Student Center’s initiatives, programming, events Johnson lists some of the early initiatives of the Black Student Center including collaborations to bring in prominent Black speakers and connections with local community colleges. University Hour ; Unity Hour ; community building, community colleges ; Miracosta College ; Tulsa Race Riots ; Black Wall Street ; Dr. Cornell West ; Black Faculty and Staff Association ; collaboration ; Black Panther Party ; women’s appreciation 0 [""] 4479 Insight on the main purpose of establishing the Black Student Center and its role as students return to campus post-Covid Johnson discusses how the main purpose of the Black Student Center is to have a space for Black students, faculty, and staff to be able to meet and fellowship with one another. This will be even more important as people return to campus post-Covid closure. fellowship ; Covid ; return to campus ; one-stop shop 0 [""] 4643 The Black Student Center's impact on the campus community Johnson talks about how the Black Student Center is bringing awareness to topics that affect Black people and exposing people within the campus community to specific topics and conversations. Black Student Center ; campus community ; natural hair ; Black Lives Matter ; policy ; community-based learning ; police brutality 0 [""] 4804 Personal impact of the Black Student Center on Johnson Johnson reflects on how the process and the development of the Black Student Center impacted her, leading her to believe in herself and in support of a village. She also talks about how she learned to never take no for an answer. support ; doubts ; fears ; potential ; persistence 0 [""] 4958 Future expectations of the Black Student Center Johnson shares what she would like to see for the Black Student Center in the future, including space expansion, increased funding for staffing, and additional partnerships. space expansion ; funding ; staffing ; recruitment ; Black Faculty and Staff Association ; partnerships ; Omega Psi Phi ; Sigma Gamma Rho 0 ["[\"\"]"] 5144 Johnson's final thoughts about the Black Student Center In conclusion, Johnson shares her hopes that the Black Student Center will continue to fulfill its purpose, expand, and endure over time. purpose ; endurance ; expansion ; future 0 [""] Oral history Jamaéla Johnson is an alumna of California State University San Marcos. While at CSUSM, she worked in various capacities on campus with the Gender Equity Center, the Black Student Union, and Associated Students Incorporated (ASI). Much of her work involved talking and working with fellow students regarding their shared needs around campus. In her interview, Johnson discusses her roles in advocating for the Black Student Center, as well as the journey towards the Center's opening. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:25.000 Today is Friday, April 30th, 2021 at 11:05 a.m. I am Ayana Ford, a student at CSU (California State University) San Marcos, and today I'm interviewing Jamaéla Johnson for the Black Student Center Oral History Project, a collaboration with CSUSM Black Student Center and the CSU (San Marcos) University Library Special Collections. Thank you for being here. Is it okay if we start with talking with-- 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.000 Thank you for having me. 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:33.000 Is it okay if we start by talking about your childhood, when and where were you born? 00:00:33.000 --> 00:01:51.000 Oh sure. You just said, when was I born? When and where? Okay. I was born on (redacted), which happens to be (redacted). In San Diego to my lovely parents, Joe and Shirley Johnson, and I was the only child. So, growing up in San Diego, specifically the southeastern region of San Diego, where it's primarily Black and Latino population was very, I would say culturally dense, and I appreciated being able to grow up around folks that look like me and even from just different cultures and backgrounds, where I was able to experience a lot that I feel influenced my childhood. 00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:07.000 So that actually brings me to my next question. So, it helps you culturally, so you were saying, it helped you to culturally grow up. So how specifically when it comes to like understanding of your culture and your Blackness, how did your childhood affect it? 00:02:07.000 --> 00:04:31.000 I think it definitely was beneficial to be within a community and be brought up in a school system that reflected the things that I valued as a person, as a Black woman or a Black girl at the time and being able to be in, there was a program when I was growing up in elementary school called the GATE program (gifted and talented education), and it was like the gifted and talented, like something and where you were on this, like special track, where you, I guess were grouped with other students that scored in the same standardized test range as you--We were afforded different opportunities and field trips and to help cope with, not cope, but to help pair with the things that we were learning in the classroom and so being in that program exposed me to students that look like me that were excelling essentially in school and academics, as well as being able to see and be with my first teachers of color, and I think that was very pivotal in establishing my foundation with growing, and the different school systems that I attended afterwards, with just knowing who I was and knowing and having, I guess, faith and belief in my potential as well as the capabilities that I had to excel in education. And so, I think that was very, just very critical and just super-duper important basically (laughs) to the, I feel like who I have developed as today. 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:43.000 Okay. So, were you taught a lot about Black history and the Black experience in your childhood particularly, like in your lessons, et cetera? 00:04:43.000 --> 00:07:53.000 In my childhood I would say that I was exposed to a good amount of Black history, but I think it was very, you know, like the kind of like superficial level or key coders within, like the Civil Rights Movement and things like that. So you have your, Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, a little bit of Malcolm X, and I think as growing up within, I would say high school going into college is when I got to learn a lot more about, like my people as African American history by taking like I remember in high school I was a part of a (word inaudible) called, Black Coal and Rose Society--shout out to Miss Shaunda--that we, during Black History Month, we were, we decided to participate in this like Black history presentation, and she challenged us to try to research Black African Americans, like individuals that we didn't already know, that weren't the people that were usually in conversations when talking about Black history. And so, with that, that's when I was able to dive a little deeper in my research on the internet and be exposed to folks like Garrett Morgan and Ida B. Wells and just dive in deeper to see that there were more people that contributed to this movement. And then from there being able to go to college and select my classes to be able to deliberately take like an African American history course or even just from the past but also like modern day history, as well, with folks that are continuing to contribute to this movement and us as a people. So that was, that was very exciting but I felt like I got kind of my foundation with having conversations with my parents and specifically my grandparents that told me about their experiences with growing up in the rural South in like Monticello and Selma, Arkansas, and their experience in cotton fields and on farms and things like that and then being able to build upon that once I was able to go to like high school and then in college. 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:57.000 Ok. So, how-- 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.000 I hope I’m like – oh, sorry (laughing) 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:14.000 (laughing) You’re okay. How has the Black social justice and activism, such as Cvil Rights Movement, feminism, the natural hair movement, and the Black Lives Matter movement affected you? 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:24.000 Oh, that is a question. Let me make sure I have all the movements-- 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.000 We can go— 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:31.000 --that you listed. So, you said the natural hair, civil rights. 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.000 We can go one at a time if you want. So, we can start off with the Civil Rights Movement. 00:08:35.000 --> 00:10:24.000 Okay. Let's do the--okay. There we go. The Civil Rights Movement, gosh, I feel like that is such a pivotal point in our history, both being like African American, Black, as well as just American history. Just that I feel like Black African American folks went to, went through, in order to get like simple liberties that were afforded to them, and I think that was like, that influenced what I do today to be able to speak up, and if I feel like there is something that's not right like in my heart or even in my gut, to be able to stand on the shoulders of, to be, like to address it and feel confident about that when doing so because knowing about what folks went through, through the Civil Rights Movement with like, with voting rights and just being able to be people and be recognized as human beings, mind you, this is in like the 1950s and sixties, which is fairly recent. So, it's hard to not be able to look back in that particular movement because it was just like so, so, so close (laughs) for a lack of a better word, but yeah. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:30.000 So, how about the feminism and the natural hair movement? How did those directly affect you? 00:10:30.000 --> 00:14:07.000 Feminism, especially Black feminism, plays such a major role in my identity development especially with coming to a, to San Marcos and not really being exposed to like the feminist movement or even knowing, having an idea about what that was. I never knew until I stepped foot on campus and, in particular, within the Women's Center at the time. So I began undergrad in 2011, yes, August of 2011, at Cal State San Marcos and, that my freshman year was when I decided to apply to the Women's Center that was on campus and so, fortunately, I guess I must’ve said something right because I was hired, I believe my title was like the Communications and Outreach Specialist and I just love, absolutely loved the environment that my supervisor at the time, her name was, (unclear) that she cultivated within the space, where it was so welcoming to folks that identified as women but also folks that didn't and wanted to also learn about the everyday struggles and theories within like feminism, and then she also opened the space for us as a staff to get connected with one another but also continue to strengthen our knowledge base and development as feminists within this space. And so, I felt like that was just so like crucial in my identity development and being able to recognize and bring on that identity within me so I really, I truly appreciate that opportunity as my first job ever was on campus at the, at Cal State San Marcos Women's Center, now Gender Equity Center, and being able to spend some of my most formative developmental years within that space. That I think led to just a lot of, I put it into words, but just being around folks that were just like-minded and were basically just like bad-ass feminists, like that's just what they were and being able to really back behind that movement and it was folks of all different shapes, colors, creeds, everything, men, women, transgender individuals, like you name it. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.000 Mmm-hmm. 00:14:09.000 --> 00:21:42.000 Just being able to be a part of [unclear] and like, well, we can say, like, when I tell you it just exposed my whole mind, I'm like, We can talk about like sexual orientation and all this stuff? Like what? I cannot believe this. This is how I knew I was like in a total different world. But it was so freeing and just being in that space and Take Back the Night, like all these events that are probably--I don't know if they still do them now--but just all of these events about women empowerment and about embracing survivors and believing survivors and just about terminology with inclusive language and just all that stuff. I never looked guys in such a critical sense before being a part of the Women's Center, and I'm all like, Wow. Just like how, like, it's like the patriarchy is (unclear) in the language. I'm like, Oh my gosh. (laughs) So just coming from there and then just with the feminist and even Black feminism leading into the natural hair journey, I can remember this like it was yesterday, my God. So, being a part of the Women's Center, Gender Equity Center, for like my sophomore and junior year goes, and then, I believe, that’s when I started thinking about—no--that's when, during that same time I was also involved in the Black Student Union, and one of my good, good, good friends, her name is Akilah Green, she was the President of Blacks, of the Black Student Union, and I was the Vice President of Black Student Union, but Akilah was somebody that I always had looked up to. ‘Cause I remember like my first year on campus going to U-Hour (University Hour), and I see this bold, vibrant personality in the middle of the quad which is like in front of the library because we didn't have a student union at the time--in front of the library--and she is just like, has so much energy, she's like, that way and I'm like, Who is this person and how can I be her? Because she has this, all this energy, this liveliness and I was like, I want to be her friend. So, from that initial moment to us being a part of the Black Student Union and being a part of the leadership within the Black Student Union, we were able to kind of like mash our strengths together and say, Hey, like, this is happening in our community--we like, we always talked about Historically Black Colleges and Universities, which are HBCUs for short, and so I remember she was like, I'm going to a HBCU, I'm going to HBCU, and I remember I was like, What is a HBCU? At the time (unclear) like colleges or universities were, and I was like, what? And so, fortunately for me, she never transferred to an HBCU, which led us to like the leadership of the Black Student Union, and so, since we weren't able to go to those campuses as students, we’re like Well, let's bring some of that culture here to Cal State San Marcos. And so, I think that's when she developed the brainchild of having a natural hair show. So, I believe it was in 2015 or fourteen--it was either 2014 or fifteen. I think it was fifteen, though, when the Black Student Union had our first natural hair show and the first one I remember was a short presentation including two videos of, I remember it was like two controversial like hair-related things that happened in the news, where either somebody was getting like their hair cut, I don't know if it was their dreads or something else. It wasn't the wrestling one because that actually happened way after, but it was two controversial videos and then there was a presentation about where not loving your hair stemmed from to like modern day and then going into the natural hair movement and so hair show it was about that. The first half we had that and then we had a runway, where students and like staff, faculty, and community members can participate with being a model in the runway portion, which was like the second half and then I think at the end is when we had like a small little circle, where we were able to come together and talk about natural hair remedies, what type of products are good for certain hair textures and some things like--And we just had this heart-to-heart circle and so mind you, for the first natural hair show, it was maybe like fifteen people, maybe fifteen people, and it was all women at the time and where, I have attended like recently where it has just expanded so much, where there's been so many like different (student identity and inclusion) centers and stuff that have also took that on and being able to add to it and develop it from that. But, I'll never forget that that first initial natural hair show and the purpose behind it and the empowerment that I received from that, which planted the baby seed in my head like, I've got to cut my hair, so that didn't come ‘til like about (audio cuts out) to your chop, but I felt like that was definitely a very pivotal moment with attending that first natural hair show to be able to embrace my natural hair texture, to be able to gain the confidence enough to be on that journey and know that I wasn't by myself. So, if I did decide to do the big chop and what, and the things that come with that--both positive and negative--that I had a village around me. So, I feel like with those two movements in particular, the feminist movement combined with the natural hair movement, that helped me find my safe space, or my brave space, to be able to engage in both of those things. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:52.000 Oh, wow. I'm so glad you're able to find that space. So, how did the Black Lives Matter movement affect you? 00:21:52.000 --> 00:26:24.000 Wow. The Black Lives Matter movement, my goodness. Gosh, just like the other things that I've mentioned I think it's like a compilation of everything, Civil Rights Movement, Black feminism, natural hair movement, Black Lives Matter. Like it's kinda’ like the (unclear) of all those things combined, and for, me with the Black Lives Matter, the first time I really heard about it, the movement was in 2012 and that was tensions around the Trayvon Martin trial, the what had happened, everything, so that's when I first started hearing about the Black Lives Matter movement. And then from 2012 to now it's still very relevant and very, I feel, necessary. Gosh, especially in the world that we're currently living in with police brutality and--not like that's been a recent development because police brutality has been around for centuries, like centuries, well before I even got here, honestly probably well before even founders of the Black Lives Matter movement was even alive. But for that to be something that is still, something that we're still fighting for and just to be recognized as human beings and for just having that movement to be able to like to reflect those thoughts and things. I think it's very important for folks that are growing up now, especially Black folks that are growing up now, to be able to have something to hold onto and I think that's what the Black Lives Matter movement represents is for folks that look like us to be able to grapple onto that and that's like a support system. But I think with the Black Lives Matter movement, it really influenced my, the way I looked at myself at a predominantly white institution as a Black student and being more conscious of who I was on campus and what community I identified with and so at the time, where the Black Lives Matter movement was gaining more traction within the media was when like--and then and allies and folks was like, Hey, like this is also affecting us as well. This is not just in Florida. This is not just in freaking Ferguson, Missouri. This is not just in these rural are, areas that are so far away from us, like this actually happens here in like our state, as well, and so from that movement is where I feel like Black students especially had to be on a kind of like a united front and realize that we need a community, we need a space, we need support on this campus and at the time the Black population--the Black student population at Cal State San Marcos--was like 3%. And I don't think much has changed since then, but we're like, We're a part of this 3%, and even though we're like a small percentage, we still want to be recognized, we still want our voices to be heard, and we need to be supported as such. 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:31.000 So, what role did you play in the establishment in the Black Student Center? 00:26:31.000 --> 00:34:22.000 What role did I play? Hmm. (laughs]) That is a good question. For me, I would say overall I feel like I played the role of the sound board for a lot of the students on campus. I say this because at the time before the establishment of the Black Student Center, I was a part of Associated Students Incorporated (ASI), which is the student governing body at Cal State San Marcos, and I remember my first position within student government was the student Rep At-Large for Diversity and Inclusion. I think that that was the title then. And I really, and I think I was the first person because they went into like this whole like title changing, role changing thing through ASI and it was the first time within that title was being available for students and so, I was able to run for that and got voted in that position and that position, in itself, I feel like helped catapult me in this whole student advocacy and policy kind of realm that I wasn't necessarily exposed to before. So, being able to serve in that position afforded me the opportunity to be able to serve on different university committees, where the only student representation might have been just me. And so, being able to be in those meetings with like vice presidents and associate vice presidents and deans and different staff on campus, to be able to be that student voice that is all through a diversity lens, that was just amazing. Both an amazing opportunity, an opportunity, but also a frustrating opportunity, as well, because just being sometimes the only student voice there and thinking that some of these conversations or some of these topics that I'm bringing up that, Of course, you all should know about this. I thought this was like common knowledge, but at the time and in those spaces, knowing that actually it wasn't common knowledge and being able to have patience but also the courage to actually say something within those meetings, in those spaces, too. So I think with that position kind of helped expose me to that--to those spaces—and from there, I was like, I really like being a part of these conversations, because I felt like I was being able to enact change through that, by bringing student voices to the table, but also bringing light to voices that are not necessarily always looked at or have been in the margins and being able to bring those voices as well to those settings. So that was such a great experience and that led me to staying a part of student government and then eventually running for the Vice President of University--Student and University Affairs--and so that was the year, I think that year was 2015-16, where myself, Tiffaney Boyd, and Bianca Garcia made up the first all-women of color exec team, and so that was what, like five years ago. Yeah. The first all-women of color exec team, us three. So, Tiffaney Boyd served as President and CEO of ASI. I served as the Vice President of Student University Affairs, and then Bianca Garcia served as the Executive Vice President. And so, within our roles, we were able I feel like to do things that we had set our minds to do at the beginning of our campaign, and I would say before even beginning my role as VP--the acronym is VP SUA--as VP SUA, I had already, I already knew what the conversations were on campus. I knew what students were talking about. I knew what students were passionate about, what they were yearning for. And I was like, I remember making a list--I think it was like maybe the summer before we started our term--of the top priorities, for me like myself, and for the students that I had conversations with was about having a Black Student Center on campus, a Black space, to be able to have Black African American fraternities and sororities on campus either--at the time it was like either/or--and then it was those, I think those are like the primarily two biggest things within that list and, being able to see both of those things come to fruition from like the very beginning until like the end of our term and graduating (unclear) things that are still on campus today, I think was extremely, extremely rewarding and as we mentioned I feel like all of those steps from like the beginning to, from like elementary school to like high school and then eventually to college, the people that I was able to meet it and so I would say at the time, I was VP student, VP SUA, but I would say like the role that I played with students that wanted this to be done and I felt like I tried to do everything within my power and within my role to be able to make that happen or at least have folks hear us out. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:30.000 So, what do you think was the vision from the students and the faculty for the Black Student Center? 00:34:30.000 --> 00:37:47.000 The vision, I--let's see. I think the top three priorities that the students and faculty had for the Black Student Center was number one, a space to be able to develop community ; number two, the opportunity for mentorship, a space where students, faculty, and staff could come together ; and then also number three, I would just say that priority would, was scholarship. Community, mentorship, and then scholarship. Those were like the three main priorities that I remember hearing from students, staff, and faculty was to be able to have this space that could encompass all three. I remember having conversations with folks within the Black Faculty and Staff Association (BFSA), with faculty of color within various departments on campus, as well as Black and actually just students of color on campus to say that they wanted a space where they were given permission to be themselves. And I think that was something that before the Black Student Center, didn't exist on campus. There were different centers that played a role in trying to help and create and open that space for Black students, but I felt like there was just something missing, and so I think with the creation of the Black Student Center, it created that space for students, faculty, and staff and then being able with that space comes mentorship because there's this one focal point, where all these populations can come together. And then with like scholarship, to be able to have like this entity, this institutionalized entity, that can potentially fundraise and have, and be able to give out like scholarships eventually, and be able to help fund students with their academics and things like that. So, I think those were, that was the vision and the priorities for students, faculty, and staff on campus of the Black Student Center. 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:55.000 So, to kind of piggyback off that, what do you think the university administration communicated was their vision? 00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:00.000 What do I think the university’s vision was? 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.000 Yeah. The administration. 00:38:05.000 --> 00:40:39.000 Hmm. The administration. I think their vision was for the Black Student Center was student success. I think that with the administration, they heard our voices, they heard ASI’s resolution, they heard actual student voices at town hall meetings, they heard these in staff meetings with faculty and staff. I think they heard us and they acknowledged us by being able to support us or actually come together as a team to be able to bring this student center to fruition, and I think for the university administrators, for them, I think it was number one, acknowledging that--acknowledging us and our voice--and then number two, also being able to be, the Center being a vehicle for student success of some of our most vulnerable populations. And I think that was probably, I think that was like the two biggest things of what they saw the Black Student Center being as. Because it wasn't the first and nor do I think it will be the last student services center that will be on campus. But I feel like they've had a necessary blueprint with the Women's Center, now Gender Equity Center, the LGBTQ Pride Center, and the California, California Indian (Culture and) Sovereignty Center. Like they've seen these centers and how they can be resources and support for student success and so I just think it was just a, a natural but also inevitable direction into the, into the development of the Latino (Latinx) Center that is there now and the Black Student Center as well. 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:52.000 So, do you know of any pushback or anything external or internal that going, people were trying to go against the opening of Black Student Center? 00:40:52.000 --> 00:55:25.000 Shoot, the opening of it, there was pushback before it was even a, a thought (laughs). Before it was even a thought. Oh gosh, and it's so funny cause kind of look at, I feel like I haven't really thought about this and so like reflected on just the steps that took to get there. But, wow, yeah there was pushback, and I think it was something that wasn't surprising because I think with change there's always, there's always some resistance to change. And so, with the Black Student Center, I feel like throughout it all, we had more support than opposition with the Black Student Center and from its infancy stage of when--let me think, let me think-- the infancy stage. So, I would bring that back to from going back to when I was telling you that I had made, at the beginning of my term as VP, I remember it even with seeing that on paper and trying to like say like this is going to happen, there was doubts even then ‘cause I'm like, ‘cause even with like with these spaces cost money and at the time we were like, Okay, we're already paying so much for tuition. Students don't want to pay no more fees. The university is like kind of gridlock right now because, you know, the recession and all this stuff like it was like and so for the, even for us to even think of the possibility of establishing a Black Student Center there were all those things that it was already going against it as far as doubts in the mind. But once you know different political and social movements started to gain traction and more Black student voices were being highlighted within campuses, and I remember there was like right down the street at the University of California, San Diego, UCSD, they had the Compton Cookout. They had the Compton Cookout where it was like predominantly white students. I think it was like a white fraternity decided to throw this party where they did blackface and had like durags and bandanas and like it just the whole playing different stereotypes and tropes of like the Black community and different things like that. And this was a campus that was literally like thirty-two miles away us and from that and having the Black Lives Matter movement and having all these police brutality cases and incidents and all this happening and gaining traction it actually almost reminded me of the 1960s, like Black Power movement, where you saw like a lot of Black and African American students at universities, like making their voices heard, fighting back with administration and making demands and being free to who they wanted to be. So, it kind of reminded me--I think that we're in this moment like right now. It has come full circle, and the movement that we're doing is like Black Lives Matters now and so it's just crazy to see how that evolved from there. So, like from that having all of this and having students like around the nation, Black students around the nation making demands and like, You know what, we're not asking permission anymore. Like we're not asking permission, and we need these things to happen in order for us to be successful. And so, from that environment and then going into specifically at Cal State San Marcos, President Karen Haynes had a town hall meeting about, I think it was about student success and retention, and I remember there were students there, were some students there that had organized to address the President about what are these things that, what are you and your administration governance at Cal State San Marcos. And so many students were coming up to let their voice be heard by asking these direct questions to the President of the university at the time. And I remember with, walking into that meeting because, of course, I had my hat on as the VP of Student University Affairs, so, I'm here representing ASI and so was a lot of my other--I'm there to represent ASI and hear what students had to say. So, just being there and feeling just the energy in the room, but then also walking in and noticing that there are like police officers on the roof and there's like heightened police security because I guess people just assume that this was going to be a very tense town hall meeting. And I'm all like, These are students. These are students. What was the point of having all this heightened police security? And like, that was like the first time I ever seen police officers like on the roof. Our UPD (University Police Department) on the roof and like just in the surrounding areas and feel like the town--the town hall was at, is it University Hall 101? It's like that big like lecture--Oh, it's not University Hall, it’s Academic Hall. Yeah, all this, like police everywhere, but in the hall being able to be in there and see that, and I feel like that was also kind of like, whether they knew it or not, or whether it wasn't intentional or not, that was also like something like a tactic to be like of intimidation. Like you're coming to this town hall where you kind of want to express how your experience as a Black student on this campus and you're like sitting here asking the university and its administration about how they're going to support you and then you have all this police presence. So, I think that was also an example of just kind of some pushback and whether it was intentional or not, no one knows for sure. But that was just something that it still impacts, you know, the environment. And then, so from that initial town hall to like the Black Student Union at the time writing like a letter, which wasn't necessarily a list of demands, or was it? I can't quite remember, but I know it was like the Black Student Center, I mean, not the Black Student Center, Black Student Union kind of writing this organized letter like a formal letter of everything that was kind of communicated within that town hall written on paper to send to (unclear). So, like after that town hall, she was like, I hear you, reached out to like the Black Student Union and was like, can you formalize all of your requests, write them down in a document or a letter, and be able to deliver it to my office? And so, the Black Student Union was able to do that and within that letter was the formation of a Black Student Center among other things. I can't really remember what it was word-for-word, but (unclear) the letter off to President Haynes and then I think like about like a month or so later, she addressed the campus community that she was putting together a Black Student Center Task Force that would look into the funding options and to be able to develop basically like a blueprint and everything about the formation of a possible center. So, once that happened, it was like, Oh, wow, that’s (unclear) to this. And then at the same point in time, I believe the ASI—'cause one role that the student government can play is that if there is something that we would want university administration to support, like an initiative that we would want university administration to support--we do what is called a resolution, and so at that moment, and I believe it was like February of 2016, is when we had our (unclear) in where one of the things on the agenda was a Black Student Center resolution. And so, there was this support resolution that was like backed by various faculty, departments, student organizations--both on campus and off campus--even statewide that was backed, everything on this and I think you can actually look at the resolution on Cal State San Marcos’ website. They have a list of resolutions there. But it was backed by so many people, and it was supported by just people both on and off campus. And so, I remember having this AS general body meeting in February, mind you it’s Black History Month, and that's when tensions arose, like that--if pushback was coming to a head, it was at that meeting. And that's where we saw, you know, our supporters and then we also saw people that opposed it as well. Not necessarily the guests that were there but also members of our (ASI) board that represented the different colleges that were on our campus that were, that opposed the resolution. And so, that was by far like the tensest board meeting I had ever attended. And that's where we saw it on our board that clearly stated that like, that slavery didn't build the foundation of our nation. Like, you can just see like the different opposing views and arguments just within the room and yeah, it is, it's just so hard to articulate at this moment. But just being there and being present and listening to opposition’s arguments, and I hear the voices of the folks that supported the resolution, but in the end, after all that deliberation, the resolution ended up passing and so we were able to send that resolution to also President Haynes as like the official like stamp of student voices that this is what the student body wants and accompanied with the Black Student Union (BSU) letter of like demands and stuff like that. And so, from that, it was the Task Force developed and so many people served on that community, that committee and from there, I think from there that's when things started, you know, kind of steam rolling ahead. But yeah, I feel like there was pushback from like the very beginning from even getting it from just this thought or idea or vision to the actual fruition of it. 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:35.000 So, after that the Black Student Center was opened--after all the deliberation? 00:55:35.000 --> 00:58:27.000 So after, let's see, so we had the town hall meeting, there was the ASI meeting for, to pass the resolution. There was the BSU letter of like demands and then the Task Force was created and then after the Task Force and the budgetary things were kind of outlined, it went to another committee within the university, I think it was the university’s like, I forget, I forget what the acronym is now, but it was like the university's budgetary committee, and then it passed then, and then that's when like, the construction and stuff started for the Black Student Center. So, at this time, the University Student Union was already created, and it was already up and running and where the Black Student Center sits now (unclear) tranquility room, it was two tranquility rooms and like, an extra kitchen area, I think for that, I think it's that Jazzman’s, Jazzman's coffee shop there. And then, so they ended up relocating like the tranquility room and things, and like (unclear) of like the space, because the goal was to have it a part, to be with the rest of the student centers. So, since there was no more room on the third floor of the University Student Union because I believe it's like the Pride Center, Gender Equity Center, the Latino (Latinx) Center, because before the Latino(x) Center that was a social justice and diversity library in that space. So, they had renovated that space, made that to, made that the Latino(x) center and then there was the Cross-Cultural Center. Since all those spaces were taken up on that third floor, they had renovated that fourth-floor section to be, to house the Black Student Center. And so construction, reconstruction for that I believe started in, started in 2016. Yeah. Like starting in 2016. And then yeah, it was ready for like the grand opening that following year. 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:34.000 And were you able to attend that grand opening? (technical difficulties) 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:35.000 --Sorry? 00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:38.000 Sorry. Oh, no, no continue. Sorry. You cut off oddly. 00:58:38.000 --> 00:59:18.000 Oh, oh, okay. I said, so it does kind of seem a little fast, but I think all in all it was about like a three-year process, and I think what made it a little easier, too--and I won't necessarily say easier--but I feel like there was already kind of like a foundation and blueprint kind of laid out with the Latino(x) Center that had been created like I think a year or two before. So, they kind of engaged in the same process. Yeah. But you were saying about the grand opening? 00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:23.000 I was just asking, were you able to attend? 00:59:23.000 --> 01:01:03.000 I was and that was such a great experience. I was also able to sit in on the initial hiring cycle for the first Director of the Black Student Center. Because fortunately after I graduated, I was able to land a job in the Global Education Office on campus and so, I was able to transition from a student to staff and sit in on those meetings and hiring presentations. So, I was able to meet and connect with the Director of the, the first Director of the Black Student Center, and then I was able to attend the grand opening of the center, which happened to be in February of 2017, I believe, with Akilah (Green), who I said was so instrumental and connected me with (technical difficulties, unclear) on campus and (Tiffaney) Boyd, who was the sitting President while I was VP of ASI. And we were able to have, to share a few words at the ceremony and be a part of the whole, the whole celebration. And so, that was very, very rewarding to see something that I feel like we had put so much energy into to finally come back to campus and see it as an actual space. 01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:16.000 So, to kind of go back here. So, do you have any specific names or groups of people that you want to say, talk about who like helped with the opening of the Black Student Center? 01:01:16.000 --> 01:06:35.000 Oh my gosh. Oh, I wish I could like, could have thought about this to write down a list! But, oh my gosh, goodness, I am going to start from, let's see from the, I would say from like the bottom up because it was (grass)roots initiative. First, I would like to thank, or I would like to give recognition to the student organizations that helped support the Black Student Center initiative, and there was so many, there was, and if I forget anybody charge it to my head and not my heart, please. It was the feminist was, it was the, what was that? What was that collective called? Of course, it was the Black Student Union. It was MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán) at the time. It was KA, I think it was Come Along, Come Along Alliance. I'm probably butchering that name, but KA. It was like a coalition of social justice something. It was a student organization that they contributed a lot. Specific names: Karen Guzman (transitioned to Kai Guzman) she was instrumental. Or--instrumental. Her pronouns are they now, so they, they were instrumental in helping to articulate and be at the forefront of voicing their specific experience on campus. They were just able to just share their support with, with the initiative. So big shout out to--oh, and they don't go by Karen Guzman anymore. It's Kai. Yes. Big shout out to Kai! Shout out to or bringing recognition to our Sociology Department. I believe she was the chair at the time, Dr. Sharon Elise, and Geoffrey Gilmore, doctor--Oh my gosh. The list goes on. Dr. Dang (Chonwerawong), she's no longer at the university anymore, but she was over like student support like services (Student Academic Support Services) and stuff like that. Dr. Dang. Gosh. Akilah Green, Tiffaney Boyd, Bianca Garcia, Louis Adamsel, Jake Northington, Daniel Fare, just, gosh there's so many people. But those folks as well as even the support of our administrators, such as Dr. Lorena Checa and President Haynes, President Karen Haynes, for being able to hear our voices and acknowledge them and also being able to support that. Yeah, gosh, I--that's so crazy. I'm totally blanking, but there was, there was so many people, so many people. I remember reflecting after like graduation how, after everything has settled down, and really thinking about like my journey as the student and the connections that I made and even how those connections and relationships played a role into like the development of the Center, and it was like, if I would have never did this, and I would have never met this person and this person, and we would’ve never been there in order to have this occur and like—so, I think the universe and God works in just extraordinary, amazing ways and just to see how everything just the small things and the intricacy of how relationships and building bridges can lead to so many, so many things. So, yeah, that's all, that's what I can remember for now, but as I mentioned, if I forget anyone, please charge it to my head and not my heart. 01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:54.000 (unclear) So can you tell me a little bit about the early initiatives and programs and events that the Black Student Center focused on after its opening? 01:06:54.000 --> 01:11:36.000 Gosh, let me think. I think that--I could remember a lot more--but that was like four years ago, and I guess I have a horrible memory. But I believe the events and stuff that the Black Student Center focused on was building community. So, with University Hour being a thing, so I think it was like Tuesdays and Thursdays from the hours of twelve and one is like a no class period and so having events that built community within that timeframe so that students can come and visit the space and also be able to meet people. I think that was like a big thing and so there were different, what were the talks called? There was like a series that they would have, (unclear) of a weekly thing where students could come. I think right now they have something called Unity Hour but before that, it was something else like (unclear) lunch and learn or something like that. I don't know. But I know that was a thing also with being able to bridge partnerships with the local community colleges. So, for Black African American students that were transferring to cultivate that relationship with the campuses there, so that way there will be a good transition, where students know like when they come to campus that this is a resource for them. I know that was a big thing and specifically with the Umoja program that was at MiraCosta (College) and then also being able to bring folks on campus like different speakers and things like that. I remember like a comedy show, where this pretty big comedian came, and that was pretty cool. Being able to attend an event with the Black Panther Party. So, members of the Black Panther Party came, and that was an event. Also, about the Tulsa, the Tulsa Race Riots that happened and so like Black Wall Street, with the city (district) of Greenwood (Tulsa, Oklahoma) so being able to have representatives that are a part of that history to come and actually shed light on that event that happened for foundations that are associated with that. Being able to see and take a picture with Dr. Cornell West. I thought I would never, ever like meet him before. And so, then being able to help and—also, I won't say that the Black Student Center was the sole department to put on these events--but they were able to work with in collaboration with other departments on campus as well. So, like the Office of Inclusive Excellence and (unclear) and all those different departments, too, they were able to collaborate together, as well as the Black Faculty and Staff Association. But to bring these prominent Black folks on campus and have students be able to meet these people or be able to hear like kind of what they have to say, give advice and things like that, so opening that opportunity, that's what they were able to do that bring those events, those larger scale events to campus, too. So, I would say like in the beginning the Center primarily focused on community building, making sure folks knew that the Center was there and for them to utilize, and also being able to bring these big names to campus and building relationships with the local community colleges in in the area. 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.000 So-- 01:11:39.000 --> 01:12:44.000 Oh, I would say, before I forget--because I remember this--I would say, one of the events that still sticks with me today, one of the first ones that the Black Student Center did was a Black women's appreciation luncheon, and that was our first time a center had held that on campus that I believe (unclear) Black women and where I was able to see a good amount of Black staff and faculty on campus that were able to come into the Black Student Center, like for the first time, and then actually receive a certification, not a certification, but a certificate and like free lunch of being appreciated. And so, I really appreciated that moment and being able to be a part of that. 01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:55.000 (Unclear) Do you know any of like wrinkles or problems that happened during the early days of the Black Student Center? 01:12:55.000 --> 01:14:28.000 Any wrinkles or problems? Let's see. Any wrinkles or problems. You know. Hmm. Not that I can really remember because in my experience at the time I was a staff, so I wasn't able to be in this space as much as like students were or other folks were, so I didn't really hear like too much about, especially if anything negative was happening in the Center. So as far as there being any like, can't really say too much about that because I wasn't, I wasn't privy to the information or anything like that. I think, only one thing that I can think of is like, I think just the formalities of hiring for student assistants. I think, I don't know if, yeah, how that went, but that's just stuff that I heard. 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:38.000 Okay. So, in your opinion, what do you think the main purpose of the Center's creation was? 01:14:38.000 --> 01:15:34.000 For me, I think the main purpose of the Black Student Center was to have a space for Black students, Black faculty, and Black staff to be able to meet and fellowship with one another. And with that, with folks being able to come in this space to build this community, I think, led and leads to mentorship, scholarship, and other opportunities that we’re not necessarily privy to when we're in our silos. But I think the Center creates that space for us to really come together and be able to, a knowledge tank basically and exchange knowledge with one another. 01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:38.000 Do you feel like that purpose is being accomplished as right now? 01:15:38.000 --> 01:16:50.000 Right now it's kind of hard ‘cause we're in Covid times, and you know, folks aren't necessarily on campus as of yet, but I think that if it's not being done right now, I think it's going to be even crucial for when students do return to campus and for students that are anticipating on applying to Cal State San Marcos, for those students to know that this is a space that they can come to when they need help, when they need support, when they need resources, when they need to be connected to somebody on campus. I feel like the Black Student Center should be that one-stop shop for those students that are looking for those answers. Yeah, I think the role that the Black Student Center plays is going to be even more important as students start to come back to campus, Black students just start to come back to campus and staff and faculty for that matter. 01:16:50.000 --> 01:17:00.000 So, do you, how do you think the Black Student Center affected the community, the campus community as a whole? 01:17:00.000 --> 01:19:46.000 As of right now? I think it has, gosh, I mean, that's kind of hard to say because I'm not on campus anymore, but I think what I could gather from just the different like emails and social media postings is that they're bringing awareness to topics that affect Black people, certain things that, and I think that is helping to expose folks within the campus community that haven't had the opportunity to engage in those types of topics or conversations, for them to be able to have the ability to now and present that space for them to be able to engage in those types of things as well. Like talking about natural hair and talking about even different policies and legislations that maybe other folks within the campus community didn't know about, weren't aware about or didn't know how that impacts, you know, students or Black students specifically. That's one thing, but also about just other different topics that we talk about with how important community-based learning is to Black people like and being able to explore their research (unclear) when they apply that to within the classroom or even outside of the classroom. Also, about just different, you know, current events that happened, um, within the world. So specifically like with the Black Lives Matter movement and police brutality and the different cases that are associated with that--being able to have that space to talk about those things, not just within our community but also within the campus community as well, to see how other folks are dealing with these types of things that happen and for there to be healthy conversations that can come with that. 01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:56.000 So how has the Black Student Center impacted you personally? I know you’ve touched on it a bit, but-- 01:19:56.000 --> 01:22:29.000 Yeah, Black Student Center impacted me personally. I would say it’s more like, I guess, theoretical than like literally because I wasn't able to experience this, the space, as a current student. But just the process and the development of this, of the Center, it had impacted me in so many ways to believe in myself and my potential, to believe in the support and the village, how necessary it is to have a village around you and have folks and relationships of support. It has also impacted me in a way to know that (technical difficulties) used to love and it's from, I first heard it from A Cinderella Story with like Hilary Duff. But I think someone had told me that somebody else has said it somewhere but anyways, I think it was like Babe Ruth or something. I don't know, but it's a baseball like analogy and it's, “Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game.” And for that, I could say that is applicable for the Center because, as I mentioned before, on that little piece of paper like there were so many doubts and fears that came with for that to even potentially be a thing. To not let in those doubts and fears, keep me from being a voice for students, being able to build and nurture those relationships on campus and not taking no for an answer. And I think that has helped to, the Black Center, the Black Student Center has helped to reinforce, to reinforce the power in my potential and even the folks around me and like leave your mark on campus. 01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:38.000 So, you've seen it grow and evolve. So, what do you want next, to see next for the Black Student Center? 01:22:38.000 --> 01:25:30.000 I would like to see the Black Student Center expand in space. I would like to see more funding put towards the Black Student Center to support additional roles within the space. So, for there to be like a Director and Associate Director, a coordinator, graduate assistants, student assistants, a team of volunteers. I would like to see for more funding to be put towards the Center to expand the staffing, as I just mentioned. I would like to see the Black Student Center really pushed to go against the grain, to tap into different areas that are not necessarily looked at on an everyday basis to continue strengthening the relationships that the university has with the community colleges but specifically with the Black organizations on those campuses to increase, you know, the Black student population to push them in a role in recruitment of Black faculty and staff, to be able to work in partnership with the Black Faculty and Staff Association as well as like other entities on campus like Omega Psi Phi, Incorporated, and Sigma Gamma Rho, Incorporated, to do like a Black student orientation or even a high school conference or with the Black Student Center, honestly, there are so many avenues that it could go down that will ultimately lead to student success, specifically with our Black students. And so, I'm just excited to see direct--the direction that they take especially after students return to campus. And just seeing the continuation of the events and programs that they already have as well as being able to tap into other workshops and things that they haven't necessarily explored yet, too. 01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:36.000 Well, those are all my questions for today. If you have, do you have anything else to add or anything you would like to say? 01:25:36.000 --> 01:27:03.000 I would say, well, let's see, is there anything else I would say? I think the last thing that I would say is that I truly and dearly hope that the essence of the Black Student Center continues to fulfill its purpose at Cal State San Marcos. And I hope that it will endure forever and when I go back and visit the campus like ten, twenty years from now that it is not in the same area with the same dimensions that it before I was, I mean, after I was a student, or during the time I was a student, but that it has expanded and its initiatives have expanded and it is still present, it's still a presence and dynamic as ever on the campus. So that is, that is one thing that I hope for, for the Black Student Center is that it stays and remains like on campus fulfilling its purpose. 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:09.000 Well, I'm glad. Thank you so much for allowing me to interview today. It was a wonderful interview. Thank you so much. 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:16.000 You're welcome. Thank you. Gosh, you got my wheels turning today. (laughs) 01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:18.500 I'm glad. Thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. 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Johnson, Jamaéla. Interview April 30th, 2021.
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Jamaéla Johnson is an alumna of California State University San Marcos. While at CSUSM, she worked in various capacities on campus with the Gender Equity Center, the Black Student Union, and Associated Students Incorporated (ASI). Much of her work involved talking and working with fellow students regarding their shared needs around campus. In her interview, Johnson discusses her roles in advocating for the Black Student Center, as well as the journey towards the Center's opening.
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Jamaéla Johnson
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Ayana Ford
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Black experience in America
California State University San Marcos, Associated Students Incorporated
California State University San Marcos, Black Student Center
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/7544e0fd4dd9179f144e1eb4d985afb4.pdf
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Johnson, Jamaéla. Interview transcript, April 30, 2021.
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Jamaéla Johnson is an alumna of California State University San Marcos. While at CSUSM, she worked in various capacities on campus with the Gender Equity Center, the Black Student Union, and Associated Students Incorporated (ASI). Much of her work involved talking and working with fellow students regarding their shared needs around campus. In her interview, Johnson discusses her roles in advocating for the Black Student Center, as well as the journey towards the Center's opening.
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Jamaéla Johnson
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Ayana Ford
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2021-04-30
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Black experience in America
California State University San Marcos, Associated Students Incorporated
California State University San Marcos, Black Student Center
California State University San Marcos--Students
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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Black Student Center Oral History Project
Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
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Oral Histories
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Oral History
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Sean Visintainer
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Rebecca Jones
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5.4 Jones, Rebecca. Interview April 12, 2023. SC027-034 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Local government -- California -- San Marcos San Diego Association of Governments Jones, Rebecca San Marcos (Calif.) COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy Women in politics San Diego County (Calif.) Rebecca Jones Sean Visintainer JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12.mp4 1:|18(6)|33(5)|53(4)|69(9)|86(11)|109(10)|129(11)|145(10)|172(2)|201(5)|215(6)|230(13)|251(5)|271(16)|298(10)|317(14)|333(8)|353(7)|370(8)|387(6)|401(3)|416(15)|435(6)|453(11)|492(4)|513(8)|530(9)|549(11)|566(3)|585(8)|605(14)|622(8)|643(5)|677(10)|702(7)|719(4)|732(12)|745(3)|761(8)|777(5)|790(7)|812(9)|826(11)|848(13)|864(14)|878(16)|890(10)|904(2)|919(13)|942(5)|963(4)|975(7)|988(9)|1016(5)|1032(7)|1055(7)|1067(3)|1082(2)|1103(12)|1116(12)|1129(11)|1149(14)|1162(14)|1190(9)|1203(9)|1215(7)|1228(2)|1244(11)|1264(6)|1282(15)|1299(13)|1317(12)|1333(2)|1351(7)|1369(17)|1385(7)|1399(16)|1414(16)|1427(7)|1451(13)|1477(6)|1497(18)|1513(10)|1532(2)|1546(5)|1562(2)|1584(8)|1605(10)|1617(2)|1635(11)|1656(8)|1673(10)|1685(6)|1701(2)|1716(9)|1738(5)|1751(15)|1765(5)|1781(17)|1805(13)|1818(10)|1831(3)|1843(15)|1855(14)|1870(13)|1896(11)|1913(9)|1931(11)|1962(3)|2000(4) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/1997e3f42e3e9c4d984c36d5eded7c44.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Oral history interview of San Marcos, California Mayor Rebecca Jones, by Sean Visintainer, Head of Special Collections, California State University San Marcos. Interview April 12, 2023 at the University Library. 0 50 San Marcos local governance Jones describes where the city's budget comes from, including property tax, sales tax, and via the ownership of property (thanks to status as a charter city). Jones also describes her priorities for her work and for San Marcos city government. local governance ; San Marcos city budget ; charter city 0 236 Structure of San Marcos government Jones outlines the structure of San Marcos city government, and how a City Council Manager government differs from a Strong Mayor model. Jones also speaks to building consensus, and what being a contract city entails, especially in regards to police, and fire departments. 0 569 Identifying needs Jones entails what feedback means to the act of local governance, how she solicits it, saying no, and thinking big picture about priorities and issues. Jones also touches on pandemic operations of parks and trails, supporting small businesses, and customer service. local governance ; COVID 19 pandemic ; small business ; San Marcos Parks and Trails 0 927 Local governance and San Diego County Jones speaks to the differences between county and local government, and how the City of San Marcos works within the county structure. Jones specifically addresses: mental health, SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments), North County Transit, Vallecitos Water District. Jones elaborates on transit - public transportation, car transit, and microtransit. Jones also elaborates on Innovate 78 and how the organization functions, and is tied to job retention along the 78 corridor (Carlsbad, Oceanside, Vista, San Marcos, and Escondido). SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments) ; North County Transit ; Vallecitos Water District ; public transportation ; car transit ; microtransit ; Innovate 78 0 1499 Starting in politics Jones recounts how she became involved in politics, through interest in a parks issue and sitting down with city council and receiving encouragement from sitting members of the council. Jones recalls serving on the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, and learning about the process of local governance through that task force. Jones also speaks to being involved in the private sector in real estate and as a business owner. Jones also recounts her feelings towards a couple of development projects and how that spurred her to get involved in politics. local politics ; San Marcos Creek District Task Force 0 1820 Appointment to San Marcos City Council Jones recounts how the process of being appointed to the city council and the council makeup when she was first appointed. Jones outlines the difference between an appointment and an election.
 ; Jim Desmond ; Pia Harris-Ebert ; Betty Evans ; San Marcos City Council 0 2077 Running for election and re-election Jones recounts some experiences from her previous elections interacting with constituents and with a difficult election. Jones speaks to the emotional toll an election can have on a candidate, and how she participates in self-care. elections ; self-care 0 2629 Cycling for transit and recreation Jones speaks to her experience on SANDAG and offers her perspective on bike lanes and cycling to facilitate transit and recreation. Jones also speaks to different styles of bike lanes, motorist and cyclist education, and eBikes, especially in regards to schoolchildren.
 ; bike lanes ; cycle tracks ; sharrows ; splits ; eBikes 0 3051 San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force and North City Jones discuss the goal of the task force, management of the Creek, and development of the Creek District. Jones also discusses development in North City (San Marcos, originally conceived of as a university district).
 ; San Marcos Creek District ; San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force ; Gary London ; public/private partnerships ; North City ; Belgian Waffle Ride 0 3490 More development in San Marcos Jones elaborates on additional development in the works in San Marcos, including medical offices and a hospital, and the Discovery Road extension, traffic, and flooding. 
 ; Scripps Hospital ; Kaiser Hospital ; Kaiser Permanente ; Discovery Road ; traffic congestion ; healthcare 0 3844 Running for San Marcos Mayor Jones recalls the decision process of deciding to run for mayor, and speaks to being San Marcos's first woman mayor, as well as her mentors.
 ; Pia Harris-Ebert ; Hal Martin 0 4056 Business closures during the pandemic Jones discusses the difficulties small businesses in San Marcos encountered during the pandemic and supporting small businesses in San Marcos.
 ; COVID-19 pandemic ; small business 0 4244 The COVID-19 Pandemic Jones discusses what she and the city did during the pandemic to lessen the burden on San Marcos citizens. Jones discusses the city's rainy day fund, sending out small business loans (which were turned into grants), moving businesses outside, facilitating permits and bureaucracy for businesses in the process of opening, and advocacy to the governor. Jones also discusses keeping outside recreation open, nonprofit assistance, supporting schoolchildren, and mental health. Jones also enumerates how part of her job entails being emotionally available and supportive for constituents, and helping communities move forward from trauma. 
 ; COVID-19 pandemic ; business and regulation ; outdoor recreation ; American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) ; mental health ; trauma 0 4914 Other qualities of Jones's work Jones discusses additional qualities of her day-to-day work, including being a civic booster, reading and preparation, and empathy.
 ; Jeff Zevely ; Channel 8 ; Prohoroff Chicken Ranch ; Hollandia Dairy 0 5228 Women in politics Jones discusses her experiences as a woman in politics, including bias and harassment. Jones also discusses her podcast, SheEO, about elevating women, and Jones's advice to women entering politics. 
 ; women politicians ; SheEO podcast 0 5734 San Marcos youth Jones discusses her work at the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos and engagement with San Marcos youth.
 ; Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos ; Highway 78 flooding ; San Marcos Market ; American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) 0 6352 Next steps and interview close Jones discusses her personal political style, the next steps in her career, and the love she has for the city of San Marcos. San Marcos ; San Diego County Supervisor 0 Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
 ; 
 ; In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos. Sean Visintainer: Okay. This is Sean Visintainer and I’m here today with Mayor Rebecca Jones of San Marcos, California, doing an oral history interview for the Oral History Special Collections Project at Cal State San Marcos. Today is April 12th. We’re doing the interview in the University library. Mayor Jones, thank you so much for joining us today. Mayor Rebecca Jones: Oh, it’s my pleasure. SV: I wanted to start off just by asking you some questions about local government. And I think that it’s something that maybe is a little, at times, opaque to people. And so, I was just curious because local government can look really different depending upon the municipality. For people that are going to watch this video, researchers in the future, could you describe a little bit about how local government in San Marcos happens? RJ: Well, it used to be the great mystery. So, when I actually got involved with the city, I had no idea how local government worked. So, I tried to remember and put myself from that perspective as being just a resident and making things easier. And so, what we do, essentially, is we spend taxpayer money— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —that is from different sources. Most of it is from sales tax. That’s actually where we have our largest amount of money to spend for the residents. But then we also have property tax. And most people don’t know this but out of all of the counties in the city, I believe we are the lowest city that has the smallest share of property tax. So, out of every dollar we get 7.2¢. So, if you look at just that in itself, it really is very important for us to figure out other ways to actually generate revenue. So, we are a charter city. And a charter city allows us to actually have property that we own which is owned by the residents of the city of San Marcos. And all of that revenue that we actually have coming in—so Creekside Marketplace would be an example of that as well as City Hall—but all of that money actually helps augment the very low sales tax that we have. SV: Okay. So, I assume then you have to be very fiscally responsible. RJ: Very fiscally responsible. And so, anyway, our job as a local government is to spend your money wisely ; keep you safe which is, honestly, our number one concern in my opinion—it always has been—and then also making sure we have a good quality of life for people. And so, you know, during my time on the council, I always again, you know, try to remember as a resident what is important to our residents. And I actually—this is kind of crazy but when I am campaigning which, you know, I’ve won five elections now— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —when I’m out campaigning, I actually enjoy the part of knocking on a stranger’s door and knowing that I’m going to get some feedback that I might not ever get otherwise. And so, I think it’s really important for me to always remember that part of local government, who you’re serving, which is the residents of the city, but also keeping everyone safe whether you own a business, whether you live here, or whether you’re visiting here. We want to make sure that we have that as our highest priority and, you know, people can drive safely through our community, come and shop here. If they’re already passing through San Marcos, which a lot of people do, we want them to, you know, spend a little more money and enjoy themselves. So, just keeping all of that in perspective is always at the front of what I’m always thinking and part of what my leadership is and, you know, just having again a good quality of life where people love to visit, live here, and, you know, a good place to call home. SV: Mm-hmm. Can you speak a little bit to how the process of government works, the City Council, the other people that are involved, the Deputy Mayor, yourself? RJ: Yeah. So, essentially, there is a City Council Manager style government. So, you might hear about like a strong Mayor. It’s not that. There’s only one city in the entire county that has that and that’s the city of San Diego. But a Council Manager form of government, local government, means that there are five council people. We pretty much have the same authority. However, I can put anything on the agenda which I have done in the past. But also, you know, I work very closely with the City Manager. I don’t really have any extra authority. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: There’s a few little things but nothing major. And so, there are five of us that really have to look out for the best of what’s going on in the community. And we actually started districts back in 2018 and that actually changed things a bit, because that was the first time where we had councilmembers that were working specifically and being elected specifically in one area of the city. So, we have four districts and I’m at-large, so I’m elected by the entire city. And so, each one of us, you know, we have things that are important to us. We bring them forward. And then we try to get a consensus on them. My job is to make sure we’re all getting along— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —making sure that everyone’s voice is heard, and then also making sure that, you know, we always are remembering, even if you’re not representing technically District 1, for instance, that really District 2, 3, and 4 also matter. And, you know, we only have a certain amount of money, and we really need to make sure that we’re, you know, spending money where the greatest need is but also not just focusing on one part of the city. SV: Yeah. You spoke about consensus building, and I think that’s really interesting since it seems like a lot of decision making has to be shared decision making in San Marcos. How do you go about building consensus? RJ: Well, the biggest, most important thing, in my opinion, is not being political. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, once you bring political parties into it, you really just spoil everything, to be honest. And so, my job has always been as I’ve seen it is to be apolitical, for the most part. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And then also making sure that we are, you know, again spending money wisely and, you know, really addressing all of the needs and the wishes in the community. And making sure that everyone feels that they’re part of the city is also good, you know. It’s doing well. It’s safe. It’s very important for everyone, like I said, to be safe. I think that has always been super important but even more now than ever because there are a lot of people that don’t feel safe. You know, our world has changed. Laws are not the same that they used to be. And so, it’s really important to make sure that, again, your funding, your fire department, and then also your sheriff deputies—we are a contract city, which let me speak to that for just one moment. SV: Sure. RJ: I’ve had a lot of people during, you know, the downturn in the economy and, you know, during a lot of political things that have happened, saying to me, “Should we have our own police force?” Well, we actually still are one of the cities that has the lowest crime rate in the entire county. And so, that’s an important thing. Are we—what is the need? What is the problem? And so, you know, starting our own department would be very expensive, probably $3-4 million dollars. And, if it’s not broken, why fix it? SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, we actually are very lucky that we have some great captains that have come in. We have them for about two or three years, max. But they always end up being the cream of the crop. They end up moving on and actually being maybe an under-Sheriff or, you know, an assistant Sheriff. And so, you know, we really have had some great, you know, leaders in our Sheriff department. But a lot of people like to come back to our city. They might come here as a young Deputy, move on, and then they like to come back because it is a good place. We do have an excellent relationship with them, with the City Council and the Sheriff Department. And so, I think that really is very telling that, again, back to “if it’s not broken, why try to fix it when you’re doing very well.” And that’s, you know, one of the things that I think you do need to always keep in mind is, when things are going well, pay attention to what actually is working. You don’t have to change everything just for the sake of changing it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But you also don’t need to have things that you look at and say, “Well, we’ve been doing it that way twenty years, the same way, and it doesn’t work.” That’s when you need to pay attention. So, anyway, I’m very happy with our sheriff deputies and then also our fire department too, because they really do bring a sense of wellbeing to our community. SV: Yeah. We had to call the fire department— RJ: Oh no! SV: —not too long ago. They responded very promptly. They— RJ: Good. SV: —were wonderful. RJ: Okay! Well, that’s good to know. SV: So, we were very happy with how they did. RJ: Yeah. Good. SV: So, you talked about identifying change and maybe not needing change for the purpose of making change. RJ: Right. Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell. SV: I’m a little bit—I was curious how you identify need. So, it’s important to see what doesn’t need to be changed. But how do you go about recognizing where there is a need? RJ: Well, a lot of it has to do with feedback, to be honest. I mean, really, if you see something that maybe isn’t going as well as you had hoped, I mean a lot of it has to do with how people are feeling in the community. Do they feel like their voices are being heard? And their voice is being heard doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting everything that they want. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Sometimes, you have to say no. And, you know, that’s the big picture. We have nearly 100,000 people and we have—you know, that live here full-time, and we’ve got about 40,000 students that are coming in, that go to CSU, to Palomar College and all of our other higher learning institutions. It’s a lot of people. That’s really about 140,000 people that are, you know, coming into our city every day, whether they live here full-time or not. You know, you have to figure out how you serve them. So, again, you know, are you providing opportunities for them to actually enjoy themselves, have recreation. You know, we are actually known for our parks, which I think is really important at keeping people out and active. And, you know, during the pandemic for instance, many of the cities were closing their trails and their parks. We followed the health orders, but we kept our trails open, and we kept our parks, for the most part, open. We did close our climbing structures and that sort of thing. But we always felt that it was very important to keep people out and active and having those opportunities because mental well-being is important in a community. But then, also having opportunities for people to open businesses. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about for years—and this year it is our first time ; we’re actually calling it one of our goals— and that’s concierge service, that is the customer experience because the customers are the community. And then, also, the business owners, when they come into City Hall, do they feel welcomed? Do they feel like it’s easy for them? They get the support that they need to open a business. Or, if they’re making changes to their property or something like that, are we doing everything we can? And, again, do they have that concierge experience? And so, we’re doing a lot of different things. We actually are just launching something in the next couple of weeks that will help people understand more about conditional use permits and opening businesses and finding out where their dream can come true of opening a business in the city and where it’s actually available to already open pretty easily, or where it might take a little more work on their end. And so, you know, we just are trying to always make that experience a little bit better. And, you know, I’m really proud of all the work that we’ve done since I’ve been on the council. This is my 17th year on the city council. And so, it’s been a long time. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I remember when I first joined the council, I was the only woman at the time. And I remember saying “Well, you know it would be great if we had good customer service.” And at the time, that did not go over very well (Sean chuckles). There was this “Well, what is that all about?” And, you know, now if you look forward, you know, to where we are today and how important that is to us, we’ve changed a lot. And so, you know, again, changing things that you identify as having issues and it’s not just what I think. A lot of it really does have to do with getting feedback from our community. SV: Mm-hmm. How do you solicit feedback? RJ: Well, I try to make as many—myself—as available as possible. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier about, you know, being available. This is a full-time job. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It could happen in a grocery store. It could be happening at the park. Wherever I am, I know that it is important for me to be available. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, Chamber of Commerce events. Really anywhere is a way. I have a very open-door policy, emails, social media, even though I don’t love social media. It does offer a way for people to connect with me. And so, I think, again, that is really important. You know, and then my cell phone. I have it on my cards. I give it to everyone. I have a lot of people that just reach out to me and say, “You know what? I met you at this event. You gave me your card because I asked for it. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing this with you. But here’s what I’m thinking.” And I think that is, in itself, being a mayor of the people. Being available is so important. And, again, you know back to the point that I made a little earlier as well, and that is being as apolitical as possible. I really do believe that that’s the best way that you can serve your community. Not making anyone feel left out and bringing everyone together and being that consensus builder is really important. So, I work very wholeheartedly and very diligently at doing that. SV: Yeah. So, you’re pretty much always on duty. RJ: I am. SV: Yeah. RJ: I am which, you know, makes it difficult. It is a hard job— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —to do, you know, pretty much all day every day. But, you know, I have to say I look around the city and I do have to pinch myself sometimes, thinking “You know, I was a part of that.” And “Oh, I was a part of that.” I mean, I really am proud of what our community has become. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, and we really have grown significantly. We are a college town. And then, you know, we’ve really done a good job, I think, at juggling following state mandates, making sure, again you know, our community is a good place to call home, also to do business in. You know, it really encompasses a lot of different things. But I’ve been very intentional about, you know, making the things that are important to our residents important to me as well. SV: Mm-hmm. Could you talk a little bit about how the city government functions within the larger context of, I guess, the county? RJ: Oh yeah. SV: You know, how the different municipalities interact and then how the county government as well, functions with the city. RJ: So, all mental health is handled through the county. That’s probably the biggest difference of the county and then cities. So, there are 18 cities plus the county. And then what we have is several different, you know, regional groups that we are, you know, part of. So, one being SANDAG which is mainly transportation. And then you’ve got also North County Transit which is for North County. And it’s our transit operator. And so, and then there’s like the water—we don’t actually have our own water department. So, Vallecitos Water District handles that. We are a little different than some cities. Like the city of Carlsbad, they also serve the water as well. But we don’t do that. You know, just really the biggest thing is when we’re on a board together, you have to wear a regional hat. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You have to figure out—because we don’t work independently as silos. We do work together. You know, when you look at transportation in itself, you know a lot of people drive cars, about 97% of the county, about only 2-3% honestly actually use transit. It’s not a system that actually runs often enough for it to be, you know, serving most people for their lives. Plus, a lot of people have lifestyles that really it doesn’t fit within their lifestyles. But then there are a lot of people—well, not a lot, but the people that do use public transit, they really do rely on it. So, we need to figure out how to serve everyone. And so, you know, is there a possibility of having a transit system that actually can attract more riders? I believe so. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But it also relies on people making that shift. We need to make sure it’s safe. There is a lot of people that believe that only people that are homeless ride on public transit. That’s not the case. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Though there are some. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t. There definitely are. But how do we make it more meaningful and easier for people to use it? So, we do need a balanced transportation system like I said. And that’s not punishing car drivers and trying to force them out of their cars. It’s not going to happen. Many people, especially people I think with kids, really rely on that, you know, getting their kids where they need to go. And I, you know, my kids—I have, well, I’ll just give you an example. I had a soccer player and she played competitive soccer, my daughter. And then my son was a surfer. And so, two very, very different, you know, life sorts of things that they like to do. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, for me, I was always driving. I was always driving, you know, a big SUV because usually I was like “Hey, you know what? I’ll pick up your kids too.” So, you know, for practices and all of that for my daughter, I did a lot of carpooling. With my son, not so much because he wanted to go, you know, when he wanted to go. So, you know, I’d go and try to run errands while he was at the beach. And then I’d go back and pick him up. So, you know, a lot of different lifestyles have different needs. And, you know, so that’s one of the things that I always try to mention when I’m on that SANDAG committee. I’m on the Board of Directors as Mayor. And I try to say, “Remember. Let’s not forget about, you know, the parents. Let’s not forget about our retirees. We really do need a transportation program that fits everyone’s needs.” And it is tricky. But I think it can be done. But our new regional plan, I think that it really does punish car drivers in a lot of ways. And we really need to bring more transit, in my opinion, up to North County. And what I’ve been talking about for quite some time, and it actually will be rolling out pretty soon, is having micro-transit within cities because that is a way for you to actually get where you need to go within the city. It’s not going to take you to work or anything like that. But, you know, on your short trips, you know, getting for instance our kids to school because the school district has very little busing. They are starting to bring some of it back. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But that really is only for the elementary kids. So, you know, the older kids, the middle-schoolers, the high schoolers, how do you get them to school in a meaningful way? And I think micro-transit is a way to do that. But it’s also a way for people like if you want to go out and have dinner, have that glass of wine. You don’t have to drink and drive! You don’t have to call an Uber. If you’ve got a system that actually is on demand, it will meet those needs. And I think it would serve our community better. So, I think having more conversations about, you know, different aspects of a transportation plan that fits really the needs of the community like micro-transit and then also autonomous vehicles. They are the future more than I think fixed rail or fixed routes on buses. I think it really does lend better to peoples’ lifestyles. So, you know, keeping that in mind, that’s what we do at SANDAG. But then also at North County Transit. It’s all about the same things that I just mentioned about transit. But, you know, working with other cities it happens a lot. We also have something on the 78 corridor that is something that not the rest of the nation has. I think it’s one of a kind. And it is that cities work together. And so, Innovate 78 started. And it was really about attracting business to the region. I call us the “upside” of San Diego because we’re North County. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: We’re very close to Riverside and to Orange County. And, you know, we really have a different bit of lifestyle. A lot of people that really enjoy the urban living don’t really enjoy it as much in North County. But we also, you know, we have a lot of space for jobs and, you know, we also have a lot of homes. And so, a lot of people, you know, North County is a little more affordable. As you get east of the 5, it, you know, gets a little more affordable. East of the 15 is a little more affordable. But, you know, also trying to figure out how to balance, again, the transportation, getting people to work, and all of that is a consideration. But, you know, when you have large cities like Carlsbad where they have a lot of jobs, where are those people going to live? Well, a lot of them do live in San Marcos, for instance, or Vista. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, you know, Innovate 78 was all about trying to figure out how to attract businesses. If the city of Vista has a business or the city of San Marcos has a business within our city, we can’t find the proper amount of land for them because they want to grow. We work together and our Economic Development Directors work together to figure out where can we move them to stay in North County, so they don’t have to disrupt their workforce, so they don’t have to disrupt their lifestyles. How can we work together to make that happen? And it has been very successful. I’m very proud of the work that we’ve done. And, you know, it has been recognized that we have done some really good work together. SV: Yeah. So, is Innovate 78 like a—is it a formalized structure? Do you have meetings that happen on a regular basis? Or is it more of a—I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to ask you here. RJ: I know what you’re trying to—So, we don’t have—Okay. So, there are quarterly meetings where it’s the mayors, generally, but not always, and council members. So, they kind of cycle in. And then they’re hosted in all the different cities. That’s a quarterly thing. But our Economic Development Directors and staff work actually—they do have monthly meetings. So, they do work together on a very, very regular basis. And, you know, that, again—You know, we’re policy makers. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, it’s not imperative that we are there all the time, you know, at a monthly meeting or something like that. It is when it comes to transportation like SANDAG but not with Innovate 78. And again, you know, there’s a lot of work that has gotten done where, you know, businesses rather than them, you know, locate elsewhere like another county or something like that or, you know, maybe in South County, we’ve been able to keep and retain them here in North County which is a good thing. SV: Yeah. That is a good thing. RJ: Yeah. SV: You talked about micro-transit. I just wanted to clarify what that is in case it becomes available. RJ: Oh, micro-transit is like a small shuttle sort of bus. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Not a big full-sized bus but more of a smaller bus. And it would be—and what North County transit is going to be—Have you ever seen the Carlsbad Connector? SV: I haven’t. RJ: Okay. Well, it’s kind of a, it’s a smaller bus and it would be on demand. That will be rolling out in San Marcos. SV: Okay. RJ: Through North County Transit. SV: Okay. When will that roll out? RJ: Actually, sometime probably fall or early next year. SV: Very cool! RJ: Yeah. SV: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey into politics. RJ: Oh my gosh! Yes. Everyone says, “What made you— SV: Yeah! RJ: “—want to be in politics?” Well, I could tell you this much. I never did. (laughs) It’s one of those things that I just kind of fell into. And so, what ended up happening is I was a young mom, and really, I didn’t even know how local government worked. I didn’t know what city government handled. I didn’t know anything about anything. And there was a public notice in the park next to my home. And, you know, I had a baby at home and a four-year-old. And I was like “What’s going on? What is happening?” you know. And some of my neighbors were saying “Oh, we don’t want this in our park.” And I said, “Well, what’s even going on?” And then, as I started delving into it and I got more information and I actually figured out what was going on, I went “Yeah. I don’t like that for the park either. I’m not in love with that.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, it really was being involved. I sat down with all of the council members at the time and I had two council members, a Republican and a Democrat, say to me, “Rebecca, you should get involved in politics.” And I said, “I have you. Why would I do that?” And they said, “Well, we’re definitely not going to be doing it forever.” I think both of them were probably right around 20-25 or 24 years, you know, being involved in the city. And I was like “Why? Why won’t you do this forever?” And they said, “Well, you know, it’s a big job. However, when you really want to help shape the community, it’s a good thing.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, I had both of them, you know, talk me into it. First they kind of “voluntold” me. And I actually first joined the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, originally. And I thought that was really interesting because I learned a lot about land use, a lot about, you know, just creating spaces where people could come and, you know, congregate, and really making a community a place where people can, you know, meet up with their friends and, you know, have those restaurants and those spaces that are, you know, beautiful and, you know, signature to the community, very unique. And I really liked that. And so, I was like “Okay. Well, I do like this.” And I have to tell you, my background is that I was a new home sales agent when I was in my early twenties. SV Mm-hmm. RJ: And then, my ex and I started a furniture marketing company which became very successful. We had customers. We started out with zero sales. We actually built that into a $100 million dollars a year in sales with Walmart, Costco, BestBuy as some of our customers. So, it was a pretty lucrative business. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But, you know, it was really hard. And I remember when he came home one day from work, he said, “You know, we’re going to start our own business.” And I went “We??” And, you know, at that time we only had one child and he was one. And he said, “Yes. You’re going to do all of the business part of it. And I’m just going to do the sales.” And I went “Oh. Okay.” And I go “You know, I don’t know how to work a computer.” And he said, “Nah, that’s okay. You’re smart. You could figure it out.” And that’s, you know, that’s really how it started. And so, I’ve always been kind of a, you know, very I would say involved person. If someone, you know, gives me a challenge or a task, I will go all in, and I’ll make sure I’ll do a good job. I’m very conscientious. And so, that really is how it started. Started out, you know, had that background of business in my, you know, my marriage and owning it. And then, I just went “Well, you know what? It’s time for me to give back. It’s time for me to be part of the solution rather than, you know, trying to stop things that are happening, you know as far as development goes.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, there were a couple of other things. The second Walmart, I didn’t agree with that. I didn’t think the placement was correct. And then there was the Robertson’s Ready-Mix batch plant over on Barham. And I said “Yeah. This is negative. I’d rather be positive.” I don’t like negativity, as you could probably tell. I’m a very positive person. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And you know what? I just knew that it was probably the right thing to do. And so, I ended up actually applying for an appointment because my ex had gotten sick in 2006. So, I wasn’t able to run a campaign that year. And I applied for the appointment in 2007. I was selected. And then I have run five campaigns since then and been elected five times. So, I must be doing something right. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Always been the top vote getter, even if it was for two seats and, you know, I would say that no one outworks me. No one immerses themselves more into trying to be involved and prepared. And so, I think that sets me apart because I really am not a politician. I’m just a person that loves the community and wants to give back and has found a way that I can do that. SV: And you said that you applied for the appointment for city council, if I’m understanding correctly. RJ: Correct. SV: So, what is that process like? RJ: Boy, was that fun. I’m just kidding. (both laugh) So, you filled out an application and then you talked about your experience and what you wanted to bring to the table. And at that time, it was an interesting time. So, Jim Desmond had just been elected as mayor. And, you know, it was—there were four men on the council. Pia Harris-Sebert was our first woman ever elected to the city council. And she was the first woman, but she was really the only woman for quite a while. We did have Betty Evans that, I think, served one or two terms in between. But she wasn’t on there. And so, it was really—there were four men left on the city council. And, you know, Jim Desmond was talking about diversity back then. And, you know, he said, you know, I like what Rebecca brings to the table, the business background, which is really important. And I think everyone should have at least some sort of background as far as how you spend money. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, it’s—you don’t have a ton of money to spend and, you know, really being able to figure out how to best spend that. You know, when you’re a business owner and especially when you’re starting out a business, you are pretty much trying to figure out how you’re not going to starve. And so, that really does bring an interesting perspective, I think, to the table. Anyway, and so, I was selected. There were 27 applicants. I got up to the podium and one of the council members actually had a lot of disagreements with me. He was supportive of the second Walmart. And, you know, he brought that up. He said “Well, you know, Walmart, they’re one of your customers. They must be very forgiving because you didn’t agree with the second Walmart.” And I said, “Well, you know, it doesn’t mean that I’m against Walmart. It just meant that I didn’t think the location was okay.” And those two things—you can still feel both things and believe in both things. It doesn’t mean that you don’t like Walmart. I mean, there are a lot of people in my community that love Walmart. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, whether I’m a Walmart shopper or not, a lot of people want to shop there. And so, you know, I think it’s really important that you have a good mix of businesses. And, you know, I think I brought that to the table. But I also, you know, brought forward the part of—I really cared about, you know, being able to represent everyone. And I think I’ve been—It has been a very valuable voice at that table. SV: Mm-hmm. So, there’s not an election process for city council? Or there wasn’t at that time? RJ: Not for an appointment. No, not for an appointment. SV: Oh, because Desmond— RJ: Because I’m in an appointment. SV: Okay. Gotcha. RJ: Yeah. So, right now, there is a supervisor seat that is going to be vacated. So, there would be an opportunity for either an appointment or a special election. At that time, a special election was gauged to be around $300,000. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It’s very expensive. If you can come up with an agreement on an appointment, it makes sense, if you can come to an agreement. But it doesn’t always happen. SV: Yeah. So— RJ: And, you know, a lot of people have been appointed and have not been able to get elected. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I think there were people that actually spoke against my appointment that when they saw what I did in my first two years, before I had my first election, they went “Wow. Okay.” And they’ve been some of my biggest supporters, to be honest. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, that does actually feel good because people do recognize how hard I work. It does feel good to have that recognized. SV: Yeah. So, then you ran for reelection then around 2009 or so? RJ: 2008— SV: 2008. RJ: —then ’12, and then ’16. I was elected as a woman’s—or as a first woman mayor in our city— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —to ever serve as mayor in 2018. And then, I was reelected last year, in 2022. SV: So, what does an election look like from your perspective when you’ve decided—let’s take your first time that you’re going after your appointment when you’re going to be reelected or elected to the city council? RJ: Oh, boy. It’s a lot of fun. So, first of all, you know, you need to raise money. So, do people believe in you? Because they’re not going to definitely, you know, donate to your campaign if they don’t believe in you. So, the good thing is I did have a record and I was able to point back to that. But not only was I able to point back to that, I was able to point back to the success in my business, how hard I’d worked, and all of those things. And, you know, it’s really important, I think, that you do connect to the community because at the end of the day you can raise all the money in the world but if you don’t have the votes, it’s really irrelevant. And so, can you get—And, you know, every single time—and I’ve run five elections—I’ve thought, “Oh my gosh. I’m losing. I’m losing!” (throws her head back and laughs) I’ve had, you know, like—I remember my first campaign. Oh my gosh. I showed up to this one woman’s house. This is really deflating. And she says to me “Oh, I already voted. And I didn’t vote for you.” (Sean chuckles) And I went “Oh. Okay.” (chuckles) And then I walked away, and I thought “Shoot! You know, why didn’t she even give me a chance to tell her about myself.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, so it’s a very humbling experience. And, honestly, I would say equally humbling is actually serving because really, you know, to have people believe in you and when they say to you, “You know what? I love what you’re doing in our community” it really does feel amazing because, again, you know back to your hard work but also, I do love the community. And I do want it to be the best that it possibly can be. And so having that part acknowledged is really important to me too. But, again, very humbling. And, you know, so every single campaign I’m like “Okay. Well, if I just go by what people are saying at the doors, I’m winning! Like I’m winning!” And then I’m like “That could not be how it is. They could just be saying that to me.” And so, you know, it really is a hard thing. And not everyone can put themselves out there. It’s nerve wracking. On that election night, you’re going “Okay. Waiting for the first numbers to come up. What’s it going to be?” And, you know, I have to say my fifth election, you know this last one, it was very ugly. It was very unfair because I was, you know—it was a smear campaign, honestly, on my integrity and what I had done for all these years and trying to paint me into a box. I don’t fit into a box. I’m going to be totally honest about that. I don’t fit into a box. I’m not a politician, don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a civic leader and someone that will read everything and make good decisions for the best of everyone. And, you know, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That part is kind of hard in elected office. But if you’re making most people happy and you’ve got a safe community, a thriving community, at the end of the day that’s all you can really hope for and, you know, again making most people happy but there are going to be some people that don’t like you. I’ve had people actually comment about what I look like which is very insulting. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: What I look like has nothing to do with the kind of job that I do. And, you know, trying to call me little nicknames and that sort of thing, I’m not a robot. I am a person so it does hurt a bit. But, you know, at the end of the day I do remember, you know, some people aren’t going to like me. That’s okay. I just know, at the end of the day really, if I go to bed and I know that I’ve done a good job that day, I wake up the next day and it’s a new day and, you know, I can let things go which it does take that in this job. You do have to let a lot of things go. You know, the personal insults really don’t matter, I guess, at the end. But, you know, I’m not a robot so it does affect me a bit. And, you know, you do have to really remember just to stay true to yourself. And I really am very proud that I have done that. SV: Yeah. What is your process for self-care when you’re having a negative day or a stressful time? RJ: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I have to get to the gym. I mean, I’m just one of those people, if I don’t get enough exercise I will literally overthink things. And so, for me, I’m really getting to the gym. And my gym! Oh, gosh. So, during Covid, closed down in San Marcos. And I was like “Okay. I’m going to go to another one of them.” It was in Encinitas. But I really am very specific because it’s not a super long workout and I can do it whenever, you know, pretty much during, you know, business hours. But I like to be able to go and punch bags (laughs) and kick bags. It’s a kickbox workout. So, I’m not like punching someone. I don’t want to do that. But I do, you know—it’s a kickbox workout. So, now, I found another one. It’s in Rancho Bernardo. So, it’s not in the city which can be kind of beneficial because, you know, I’m not sweaty and looking like a mess. And then, you know, if I’m like I’m punching and I’m having an especially frustrating day, I can do that. The other thing I really love to do is hike. I admittedly have not hiked in a very long time. I actually, a few years ago, hiked in the Tetons. So, I had to do a lot of training for that. So, I was out on the trails two and three times a week which it’s actually better for me when I can find that time. The job is very, you know, —it does entail a lot of time for me. So, it is tough for me to actually do that during the day. And, you know, when we have rainy weather, that doesn’t help. Or weather that’s too hot, that doesn’t help. So, you know, really trying to find the time to at least do that. And then I love to cook. So, during the pandemic, I started cooking for a few elderly people. And so, I have some folks that I cook for. And when I need a mental health moment, I just go in my kitchen and I just cook up a storm and several meals and I mean soups and I just try lots of different, new recipes and find things that I can tweak and make my own. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But those are the things that I do. I do try to do that. I don’t get massages. I really need a massage many times though. I don’t really take the time to do that. So, really, the biggest thing is exercise and then getting that cooking in. You know, and then everyone benefits from it. SV: Yeah. RJ: Because I’m actually not a bad cook, so— (chuckles) SV: So, what’s your best dish? RJ: Oh, gosh. Well, that has evolved. I don’t know. I’ve become quite the soup maker. But I do have my tried and true. I’m really good at prime rib and au gratin potatoes. My kids are always like “Mom” —and, you know, they’re older. They’re twenty. Actually my daughter will be 23 in a few weeks, and my son just turned 27. You know, whenever they, you know, want a good meal, they’re like “Mom. Could you make this? Or can you make that?” and then I made chicken fingers for the first time ever. And they’re like “Mom. These are like the best I’ve ever had.” So, anyway, I’m like “Well, I could teach you how to do it.” And so, you know, I’ve had them over a couple of times and, you know, teaching people to cook, honestly is—You know, there are a lot of people that don’t cook in this world, and I think, you know, the less we eat processed food, the better it is for us. And so, I like to, you know—I cook almost solely organic. I try not to eat heavily processed food. I think it’s better for me. You know, I’m going to be 56 next year—Oh, oh my gosh. Not next year. This year! Oh, gosh! In a few weeks. Oh, gosh, about a month. So, yeah. I’ll be 56. You know, I think our bodies can actually be healthier and mentally better when we’re, you know, putting the right food in them and then also getting exercise too. So, I try to definitely do all that to take care of myself. I know that’s a long story but those are the things that I do. (chuckles) SV: Yeah. Well, thank you for answering. And I asked the food question because I used to be a chef. So, I’m always interested to know about people’s experiences. RJ: Oh, wow! Nice. Nice. SV: And then exercise, I agree. I mean, it’s so important. I think to bring it back to our interview, you know, something that I take advantage of is the bike lanes. RJ: Oh, yeah. SV: And I was curious as to what your—You know, you’ve talked about transit. You’ve talked about micro-transit and, you know, what your priorities are in terms of pedestrian and two-wheeled transit as well. RJ: Yeah. Thanks for asking that. So, actually, at SANDAG, this is kind of interesting, I had actually voted against spending $140, I think it was $140 million dollars on bike lanes. And I had one of our residents send me a message. And he said, “You’re the worst mayor ever!” And I was like “Oh. Wow.” And he said, “I can’t believe how you don’t like cyclists.” And I said, “Well, that’s not exactly how that went.” And so, I explained, you know, that there’s no reason that bike lanes should be costing $5 million dollars a mile. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: That’s way too expensive. There’s no way that should be happening on a road that is literally already there. So, I said, you know, I had an issue with that. I have a real problem spending money in a wasteful way. And, you know, so I said, “Hey, let’s meet.” I sat down with him. He’s now a fan and definitely not, you know, against me any longer because he didn’t really know all of the reasons that I felt the way that I felt. I think getting input from cyclists is really important. You know, again, back to the point that we have 72 miles of, you know, trails. Those are often times, you know, available for cyclists and, you know, pedestrians, hikers, even horses because we still have horses in San Marcos. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, I am really proud about that. The one thing that, you know, I’ve done a lot of research on the different types of bike lanes, and I’m not sold on the cycle tracks. A lot of times the very serious cyclists are saying to me, “Rebecca, they’re very dangerous because you are confined in a space.” They look safe. Maybe for kids they’re safe. But they’re very expensive, first of all. And they really are not super safe because if you hit that curb for whatever reason, you could be thrown off of your bicycle and end up in the middle of a lane. That’s not very safe. Or there is a lot of crashes if you’ve got like—you know, most cyclists are in packs. Hardly anyone goes by themselves. I have a lot of friends that are very serious cyclists that, since this whole thing came forward, I’ve actually just from my friend group—and I do have some serious cyclists now in it. And they don’t really like those tracks. So, in my opinion, any time that we can have a sharrow, which is the bike lane that is a full lane with cyclists in it and then a car only lane, I think that’s probably a really good idea. Any time we can have a split because you’re not limited on space or real estate and have, you know, a separate bike lane that’s by itself but without all of the little candlesticks and the curbs and all that, I think that’s a good idea. It’s not always possible because a lot of times you’re putting them in after the fact. I would like to see more education. I am concerned that some people get really upset with cyclists. And some cyclists—I have to tell you. I actually had a property down at the beach, a second property, with my ex and, you know, every time I would go to back out of the driveway cyclists would come and they would like not pay attention to me. And I would go “Well, they’re not the only one on the road.” And then I would see them running stoplights and stop signs. And that actually upsets motorists. I hear people say it all the time. And I go, “I get where you’re coming from. However…” You know, I try to defend cyclists. But, you know, if we all ran by the same rules or all, you know, followed the same rules, that would actually be optimum. You’re probably never going to see that, you know. There are always people that are going to break rules. It’s just how it is. And they shouldn’t spoil it for everyone. And so, you know, I have to say I am very, very careful around cyclists, and I really wish everyone was because the truth is a cyclist is never going to win against your car. SV: Yeah. RJ: It, you know—And, you know, as soon as, you know, you hear of, you know, a cyclist getting hit by a car and they’re like “Oh, it’s obviously the car’s fault.” Sometimes it isn’t. I mean, really sometimes it isn’t. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I do think we need to, again, create the opportunities, education and, you know, let’s just get into eBikes for one second. The kids should not be on the eBikes that are above their ability. It is a moving vehicle. It is like being on a moped or a motorcycle. I am—oftentimes, I see the kids, you know, going wayward and crazy on them. And you know what? It’s a recipe for disaster. And then, you know what? There are accidents that happen. And, you know, it shouldn’t be all on the driver. The cyclists, you know, including the eBikes really need to be responsible. I really would love to see more education in that. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: I have brought that up numerous times. I think the school district really should take a lead in this. I know our deputies at our Sheriff’s station do it as well. But, you know, a lot of kids are riding them to school. And it’s very dangerous. Parents, pay attention! (laughs) SV: Yep. RJ: They just think, “Oh, it’s just a bicycle.” It’s really not. And it really is very dangerous and, you know, we can’t parent the kids. That’s not our job. The parents need to parent their kids and they need to teach them how to be responsible with their bicycles, their eBikes especially. SV: Yeah. eBikes are a new wrinkle to resolve, I think, in the whole transit conversation. RJ: They are. And scary! It really is scary but, you know, very beneficial because they can take you longer and, you know, longer distances quicker. And you don’t have to be in super good shape to use them. But if you’re not responsible with them, they’re very, very dangerous. SV: Yeah. They’re good for the hills around here too. RJ: Yeah. For sure. I know. Someone said “Oh, yeah, just, you know, ride your bicycle around town.” And I’m like “Yeah. That’s—” We’re very hilly in San Marcos. SV: Yep. (both laugh) All right. So, we talked a little bit about your campaign, that first campaign, in 2008. I guess I wanted to circle back a little bit to even before that, to the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force that you served on from 2005-2007. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: And I was just curious as to what was the goal of the Task Force? RJ: It was to come up with a plan of mixed use and utilizing that entire area which, by the way, you know, we’ve been updating our general plan. We’ve put that on hold for now and we’re going to have a greater emphasis on bringing the Creek District part into that because we do need to update that plan. So, FEMA has updated the flood plain and all of those, you know, different areas are going to be changed due to in a 100-year flood, what happens? You know, if we get the torrential sort of rain that we had, you know, recently, another time or worse than that, oh my gosh. It makes a big difference. We have—excuse me (hiccups) —we haven’t had a situation where it’s flooded all the way from Escondido. But it could very well happen. And so, you know, being prepared is important. You’re not going to build a bunch of buildings in the flood way. It just isn’t going to happen. Currently, there is, you know, the Valley Christian School that’s over there. It’s in the flood way. So, they can’t, you know, change their buildings or anything like that. The reason I bring that up is that’s kind of like the edge of the Creek District area and then it goes all the way over behind Grand, or right around Grand. And there’s actually affordable housing that’s right in that area. So, what we did is we approved a plan for that. And then we also started getting the permits from the agencies so we could build the infrastructure. The infrastructure will be done this year. That’s a big first step in actually moving that forward. But, then again, you know we still need to incorporate the part of the land use changes are going to happen. We also have had people like Gary London come in and say “You’ve got too much commercial to the residential. You’re going to need to make some tweaks.” So, it likely will not build as dense as we had originally approved. So, we really do need to update it and bring in those changes, you know, bringing in the flood plain. And then also the fact that the infrastructure is actually done also changes things too. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, the emphasis will be on getting that updated as well as the general plan. SV: Okay. So, the original goal then with the Task Force and into when you served on it then was to create the plan that is now kind of being put into effect. RJ: Yes, exactly. SV: And did it account for a Creek District at that time? Because the Creek District is going to be like a public/private partnership that will help with development. RJ: Well, there was 62 property owners in there today. SV: Okay. RJ: You know, when we approved that, yeah. It was to bring an it, a place, a place where people could come— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —congregate, as I had mentioned earlier, and really, you know, a space where it would be, you know, open. And, you know, you could have, you know, different community events there and that sort of thing. Also, North City is that way. North City we actually approved as a university district back in 2009. We always thought the Creek would come first. Well, University District has now really become. And again, you know, we don’t even have an actual downtown in San Marcos. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, you know, creating a downtown, creating that space. It looks like North City is becoming that. You know, we’ve got the Belgian Waffle Ride coming this weekend. It’s the largest cycling event in the western United States. It’s a big deal. Thousands of cyclists are coming from all over. They’re going to be eating in our city. They’re going to be staying here. We don’t have a ton of hotels. There are going to be a couple of other ones in North City and then also in the Creek District eventually. But really creating that downtown was one of the things that we really wanted to do. But we always saw North City—a university district back then when we approved it—and then the creek, because they connect. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Having that as a center core for the city. SV: When do you think North City will be built out? RJ: Oof. Well, that depends on so many different things. If I had a crystal ball, I could answer that. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, they’ve been (sighs), they’ve been through a downturn in the economy. They’ve been through a pandemic. You know, they’ve been through a lot. If you go there today, you know, they’ve got several restaurants. They’ve got the only, first of its kind, building with the university which is the Extended Learning Building because there’s nothing like that in all of California. And then you’ve got like Mesa Rim. You’ve got Draft Republic which was the old Urge Gastropub. You have Newtopia Cyder, Fresh Café, Maya’s Cookies, Wynston’s Ice Cream, Copa Vida, Buona Forcbetta, Umami, a lot of things happening there but, you know, not the residences. You have a little bit of residence there. You’ve got the quad, which is university, you know, kids that live there. And then you have Block C. And then you have the block that’s The Wrap behind. And then also, you know, don’t forget too Pima Medical is right there. And then, you know, you’ve got medical offices now, Scripps Health. And so, a lot of things are happening. It really is on the edge of becoming something much bigger. They have broken ground on and they’re moving forward with the first large-scale residential in there. And it’s going to be about 12 stories high. And so that will really be a game changer, I think, for North City. I think that will be what brings the really the grocery store and the other businesses that they need that can actually handle those residents and offer the services that they need. And, you know, that’s always what the Creek was envisioned. I mean these are things that I learned when we were, you know, going on these field trips to old Pasadena and, you know, all these different places that were mixed use because we didn’t really have much mixed use at that time in the city. We have a little bit over off of Mission but it’s very, very small scale. You know, having the meeting spaces, having the, you know, congregation spaces where you can have like an open-air amphitheater, something like that, that’s all things that really we started with the planning of the Creek District. Again, you know, we have to update that. But really—And it, you know, kind of grew into also North City being part of that, being a large scale downtown core area for us. SV: Yeah. There is a lot of construction going on right now. RJ: Yes. There is. SV: You have the infrastructure going on along the Creek District. You have it seems like three or four different projects right around North City and in North City. RJ: Yeah. So, you know, okay. So, back when I was selling new homes in my early twenties, I was working at Discovery Creek, Discovery Trail, so Discovery Hills. And back then we had, you know, this big map that showed everything that was going to happen in the, you know, the adjoining property. Back then, Craven wasn’t even there. I mean this—just to date myself of how long I’ve been around in San Marcos. First moved here in 1987. Just looking at, you know, what it was going to be with Kaiser Hospital, Scripps Hospital which isn’t going to happen now. But they are going to have medical offices, much like Carmel Mount Ranch. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, pretty large-scale medical offices. You know, unfortunately, you know medical is always something that we need. And, you know, fortunately though we’ve got some space to put that. You know, we don’t want people to have to go all the way down to Carmel Mount Ranch to go to a doctor. And, you know, currently Kaiser Permanente doesn’t have a hospital. The nearest one is Mira Mesa. So, 180,000 subscribers in North County have to go all the way there for a hospital. So, it’s going to be opening up in August I’m told. They’ve got a ribbon cutting all scheduled. And the Creek project, the infrastructure, it’s about $112 million to start. That is our largest capital improvement project we’ve ever had. We broke ground on that on my one-year anniversary of taking office as Mayor, which is exciting being that, you know, I’d only been talking about it for 10-12 years (laughs) before that. And, you know, before me many other councils had talked about it. You know, this year is our 60th anniversary or birthday, and our sister city Vista, it’s their birthday as well. We were incorporated on January 28, 1963. And so, here we are. We’re in our birthday year, opening up our largest capital improvement project, opening up our hospital. I mean, a lot is happening. There’s also an extension of Discovery which is about $40 million as well, 30-40 million. That is going from Craven all the way through to Twin Oaks. That’s a big deal too, getting that done. But, you know, we’re trying to move people around in a meaningful way. That will be one of our first corridors that has intuitive lighting, stop lights that will help people get through. But one of the things that I’ve really focused on that I want to get done is to make sure that we’re getting the traffic flow better. Traffic, it does feel like it’s at its worst. That’s one of the things that my opponent was using against me during the campaign. I’m like “Well, we’ve got all this road construction. Sure as heck, we’re going to have terrible traffic right now.” But when it’s done, I believe it will be a significant improvement. You know, getting the flooding to stop so you no longer have that. Being able to have two lanes over Via Veracruz is a big deal. And I remember originally when we were talking about, you know, the Bent Crossing. We talked about a—to save money, well, what if we did an Arizona Crossing, which I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. SV: I’m not. RJ: It would still flood! SV: Okay. RJ: And I said “No. No. No. Let’s, let’s not do that.” So, we were able to apply for federal funds. And so, a lot of it is grant funded but a lot of money also comes from San Marcos residents. So again, you know, back to wanting to spend their money wisely. Helping move them around the city is really important. We appreciate everyone being so patient—not always patient. But, you know, it has been a tough, tough project because we’ve had unprecedented rain this year, of course. Of course, it had to happen! Just when we weren’t expecting it to happen. But, you know, it would have been a heck of a lot worse had we not had the bridge at Bent opened. I think that could have been actually dangerous for our residents if we had not gotten so far ahead on that. But that will be done probably about a July timeframe. So, the infrastructure will be done. The hospital will come right after that in August. I would say it’s a good year, a good year that we’re getting a lot done, you know, the hospital done and everything, just a lot of good things for our residents. And again, you know, the jobs that we’re providing too, that’s a thousand jobs at Kaiser Permanente. So, those are some really good high-paying jobs. I think that’s a huge win. I’m really proud of that. You know, when I first got the call from their west coast person, he said to me “Are you still interested in the hospital?” And I was like “Where do I sign up?” (laughs) Because, yes! Of course, I’m still interested. Anything we can do to help make that happen, you know. And, you know, also having the university have, you know, the nursing program has been really important. And then, you know, also over at Palomar because, you know, these are also the ability to teach, you know, hands on is a big deal. And, you know, we’re becoming a healthcare hub, now, of North County which is great, you know, with the hospital opening up and then Scripps are moving forward with their big medical offices. It’s, you know, again it’s sad that people are not healthy, however good that they have the ability to get those healthcare options close to home. SV: Yeah. RJ: And the good jobs, of course. SV: Yes. RJ: Yeah. SV: Yeah. Definitely. RJ: In fact, my niece actually just got her nurse’s license. So, very exciting. SV: Congratulations to your niece. RJ: Yes, very exciting. SV: I wanted to circle back a little bit to 2018 and just ask you why did you decide to run for mayor then? RJ: Oosh, well, I decided well before 2018. I actually decided when I was getting elected in 2016 as mayor. I talked to my husband at the time and, you know, ’18 was a tough year, I have to tell you. I was finishing up my divorce. He told me he didn’t want to be married anymore in 2017. So, I was in the middle of a divorce. I had to sell the property, buy a property. I moved 10 days after the election. A lot of people don’t know how hard that was. It was really tough. But, you know, what I knew that, again, you know being apolitical, really pretty apolitical, was an important thing for our future. I think also, you know, having these large-scale things coming up. I wanted to see them through. And, you know, I have to tell you, looking back and seeing all that we have been able to accomplish during my time on the council, I’m so proud. I know that when I’m ready to retire, I can look back and be very proud of what I’ve been able to accomplish with very, you know, diverse group of people. We now have three women, by the way, on the city council which is great. But, you know, again, you know, for 2018 having the first mayor that’s a female, that’s pretty surprising. You know, as progressive as the city is and, you know, how entrepreneurial we’ve really been, I always thought it would be Pia Harris Ebert, which she has been a wonderful mentor to me. I can’t express enough how much I value her leadership, all of her 24 years on the city council. But, you know, when she told me she was retiring, I said, “What?? You can’t go!” and she said, “You know what? I can look back and I can be very proud.” I mean we used to be known for our chicken ranch and then our dairy. And that was it! We were known as a chicken ranch and dairy city, not for higher learning education, being a great place to run a family, a great school district. We were never known for that. We were known for other things. So, I really am proud of how we’ve elevated who we’ve become, the city that we are, and all that we have accomplished. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, the things needed to be seen through and now, you know, I’m on my second term as mayor just, you know, getting reelected last year. I am very happy. I’m very happy. But I’m also, you know, as concerned about, you know, creating opportunity for a new team to come in that is like-minded, focusing on us being a safe city, focusing on us being an entrepreneurial city, also making sure that we are serving our community and providing awesome trails and parks and all of that. And it becomes very challenging when you’re an infill city, and as built out as we are. So, you know, it’s got to be, you know, trying to find good people that want to come after me. And that’s, you know, what both Pia Harris Ebert and Hal Martin did. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And I appreciate that. And I take that responsibility very seriously as well. So, that’s what I’m going to be doing the next three years, three and a half years. And then, you know, making sure that we stay focused. And we’re going to have some tough financial times. You know, it’s—business has not come back the way that we’ve all hoped. And so, you know, we hear of layoffs all the time. You know, General Atomics, I think they laid off 400 people last week. That’s a lot! So, having those challenges you really do need to have a good team in there. But, you know, I’m trying to bring other people forward because that’s a big part of, you know, a succession plan. It’s really important. SV: Yeah. You mentioned businesses haven’t come back. Were you referring to from the pandemic? RJ: Correct. Yes. SV: Yeah. RJ: Just not in the way—you know, we do have a lot of businesses that have opened. But, you know, we also lost some. I mean, San Marcos Brewery, I still am sad about that, you know, a long-time business in our city, gone. Couldn’t keep their doors open with the open and closing and all of that. There are a lot of stories like that, unfortunately. And so, you know, being able to support the business community, I work a lot at that. I mean if I—I try to do everything I possibly can to support our businesses. And, you know, it’s not like one business. It’s thousands, you know. We’ve got like four tho—let me think here—four thousand businesses here in the city. It’s a lot! SV: Yeah. RJ: It’s a lot. It’s actually upwards of four thousand. And, you know, many of those are store fronts and they’re very small and, you know, they’re family owned. And, you know, I love that. I love that they’re thriving. I love that they’re doing well. I was actually just at a business opening a couple of weeks ago. The father-in-law of this young woman that just opened a brand-new business, he is a long-time business owner in San Marcos, twenty—I think twenty-six years he’s been in business. So, you know, seeing those generations, you know, staying in the city, opening up new businesses. I love that. But, you know, they’re going to need our help. And, you know, they need us to congregate and go to their businesses and, you know, spend our money here locally. And I try to always, you know, emphasize that. You know, during the pandemic, I tirelessly spent so much time on, you know, media just hey talking about all of our great businesses, and what about this and what about that and you know they need us now. But they need us still now. It’s not going to end. And, you know, a lot of them are really struggling. So, as costs go up, people eat out less. They spend less of their money. And so, we’ve got to remember that, when you can, try to spend it locally, whenever possible. SV: Yeah. I imagine a lot of governance is trying to minimize the bad impacts of change, you know, unforeseen or foreseen. And you talked a little bit about the pandemic. I was curious as to, you know, what you could do to lessen the burden on folks during that time and what you all did do. RJ: Gosh. Wow, we did a lot actually. We were the first city that—you know, we have always had very good reserves. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, that’s something that is because we’ve been very fiscally responsible. That money is for rainy days. And when the pandemic came, that was a rainy day. SV: Yeah. RJ: It really was. And so, we set aside $3 million. We were the first city, I believe. The only other city that may have actually beat us was the city of San Diego. But I think they set aside like $5 million. We set aside $3 million. They’ve got a population of 1.3 million. SV: Yeah. RJ: We have a population of under 100. So, I think we really outshined them in that. And I’m really proud that we did that. And that is, you know, that’s being very, very pro-business. I’ve always been pro-business, you know, being that I owned my own business and I know how hard it was. I thought that was something that we should do. And I wholeheartedly believe it’s the right thing to do for our community. But, anyway, so we did that. And we had business loans. So, it was small business loans up to $50,000, depending on your circumstances. We hired an outside company to do all the credit checks. And just, you know, you couldn’t be late prior to Covid. You know, you had to meet a few guidelines. But we were very intentional about trying to get that money out fast, as fast as possible. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: The federal government didn’t have any money out. And we had already saved a lot of businesses. Then the other thing that we did is we were the first city that had our businesses, as soon as the governor—I remember watching the press conference. And Governor Newsom said, when he was talking about some of the businesses could no longer be operating inside, but he didn’t say outside! I was on the phone to our economic development director, and I said, “I’m thinking we can have outside businesses. What can we do to make this as quick as possible.” And we had people moving their businesses. And it was a lot of services, like haircutting and all of that. And then there was another issue about that because—and, you know, restaurants and everything. But there was another issue with that because they didn’t have their business licenses. So, we were actually fighting to open up. And, you know, I mean, again, tirelessly, the letters that I sent to the governor. I mean, I was on full blown action I felt like the whole time, which is very exhausting. SV: Yeah. RJ: But it was like okay, let’s get those businesses moved outside as soon as they can. And we had businesses and we’re like “Don’t worry about your permit. We’re going to check, make sure that you are following it. Just follow these guidelines and we’ll come and check on you.” We had businesses out there before any other. And we didn’t charge anyone a fee. There were a lot of cities that were out there charging them a fee. We’re like no. We need our businesses to stay in place. We need to support them, and we can’t just say that we’re supporting them. We actually have to do it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, I am really proud that we did that. And, you know again, we didn’t close all of our trails. We were not very out in public, you know, screaming it from the rooftops that we’re open because we didn’t want our city residents to feel crowded because all of the other residents from the other cities were coming, though some people knew about them. It was just—it was important for us to do everything we could to support the community. So, fast forward to when we received our federal funds, we were actually able to take all of those loans and make them grants so they didn’t have to be paid back. That was huge. SV: Yeah. RJ: The other thing that we did is we set aside some of our ARPA funds to help our non-profits. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Because they were really hurting at that time too. And I am so proud of all of the things that we did during the pandemic because it was us being innovative, us cutting through the red tape, and us working hard to support our businesses and our community and our non-profits. Because our non-profits support our residents, right? And then the other thing that we also did is—and it’s not our responsibility, though we recognized that our community, our youth were doing very poorly. You know, I’ve been involved with the Boys and Girls Club for many years. And one of the things that they—I was having a conversation with them—one of the things that they were saying is that many of the kids that are at risk were not checking in. And so, you know, you’ve got parents that are very frustrated. The kids are at risk of being abused or neglected. And you’ve got this ultra tough situation happening. So, the mental health of our community, you know, we’ve really tried to focus on that too. And so, one of the things that we did for our youth in the community is we partnered with the school district, and we are equally funding the mental health program that they have rolled out to help the kids bounce back and figure out. You know, a lot of them are so confused. A lot of them have learning deficits. They don’t know how to articulate that, their frustration, their fear and, you know, just getting sick. You know, a lot of them are terrified of getting sick. And, you know, what is life going to be? It’s very different. SV: Yeah. RJ: You know, back to the whole pivot—I mean, I know pivot is kind of overused during the pandemic, but it’s a real thing. And so, for us as a city, you know, we made an intentional effort to do what we could to also help the kids. And, you know again, I think I told you this a little bit earlier, you know, I had people—I felt like a counselor many times during the pandemic. I had some of our folks calling me up and sending me messages and saying, you know, “I’m scared.” And so, I would check in on people and let them know, “Hey. You know what? You’re seen. You’re heard. We care about you.” So, you know, mayor’s job is not just all legislation. You know, there’s a lot of parts to it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I think something that a lot of people think is really, it’s just all about rules and regulations. That’s all your job is. Well, I think as a mayor especially, and a councilmember to some degree, but I think as a mayor I’m the figurehead pretty much for the city council. A lot of people know who the mayor is, and they might not know who their councilperson is. For me to be the face of our city, out there letting people know that we care about them and letting them know that it’s not all about rules and regulations. We actually had a young man that was murdered within our community by one of his friends. He was in his early 20s. And, you know, we renamed a trail after him, actually the Gratitude Trail in his memory, right there around Discovery Lake because us doing things to help our community heal in tough times, in tragic times, is really important. And I really do think that that’s a part of government that sometimes people are like “Well, I’m a politician. I don’t have to do that.” Yeah, you don’t have to do it. But I think doing it is important because, again, you know, how—you know, during the pandemic, people needed to know we care about you. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: We care about your businesses. We’re all in with you. We’re going to do everything we can to keep you open and do it safely, of course. But, you know, when it was all the big businesses could stay open and then the small businesses were closed. They couldn’t adapt to that! SV: Yeah. RJ: Many of them went out of business. And, you know, so we had to make it so that it’s easy for every small business to get a fair shake, to be treated like a large business, you know, while also following the health order. So, it was a real tough time. And, again you know, back to grief. You’ve got to deal with grief too within a community and figure out how to move people forward. And, you know, one of the things that I think is always important is, even if you’re taking baby steps moving forward, you’ve got to move forward. Whatever that looks like. And sometimes it’s very different than two weeks ago even. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I mean when the pandemic hit, remember, two weeks! Staying home. SV: Yeah. We have a archive that we started mostly with the students, but with community as well, trying to record experiences during that time. RJ: Yeah. SV: And it’s amazing so many students especially writing “I thought I was going to have a two-week vacation and here I am a year later.” And, you know, it’s just— RJ: Yeah. SV: —it’s just a traumatic experience all the way around. RJ: For sure. And, you know, I mean that is a part, I think, of being a mayor during a pandemic that I—you know, it’s kind of interesting. I was on a Zoom with some girl scouts, and they said to me “If you knew there was going to be a pandemic, would you still run for mayor?” (Sean laughs) And it was funny because I didn’t even hesitate and I said, “Absolutely!” SV: Yeah. RJ: And the reason being is because I was the right person at the right time. I am very positive and I’m very—I mean, you know, the glass is not half-full. The glass is almost to the top, right? There’s always a way to bring everyone together. There’s always a way to, you know, encourage people. And, you know, that’s what I did! My job changed. But I kept working. And, you know, there were a lot of people that really needed to be seen and I let them know they were being seen. SV: Yeah. RJ: I think without hesitation I am glad that I was the mayor at that point in time. SV: Mm-hmm. It’s a really interesting thing that you say about there being—I guess you’re saying so your job is obviously legislation. But it’s also emotional labor and care and I’m hearing as well, communication is important. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: What are some other aspects? I guess my question is what would surprise people the most about your job that people don’t know? RJ: Oh, that’s a tough one. Gosh, I don’t even know if I have an answer to that. You know, it’s interesting. So, Jeff Zevely, he’s from Channel 8. He actually was doing a show on our birthday. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And he said to me, he goes “You know, if San Marcos had a cheer squad, would you be on it?” and I said, “I’m the head cheerleader! What are you talking about?” (both chuckle) And he even said to me after the interview, he goes “You were so fast. You didn’t even like stop for one second.” I said, “Well, that’s my job.” My job is to not just deal with all the tough stuff. It’s also to be out advocating that San Marcos is a great place to live. We have so much for—You know, you can start out, you know, as a baby. And pretty soon you’ll be able to be born here (indicates quotations with her fingers), actually born here, because—I mean, I guess you could be born at your house if you’ve got a midwife or something but, you know, it’s not a traditional thing. You could be born here, and you can earn a master’s degree and then you could work here, and you could have a good paying job. Like that is a remarkable thing if you look at our city from our humble roots: one stop light, chicken ranch, the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch right here where the university is today. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And Hollandia Dairy. That’s all we were known for. And so, yeah, I would say a lot of people might not know what that entails but it’s a lot of time and effort. I can assure you of that. SV: Yeah. RJ: Like it’s almost more than the actual job, although I do a lot of reading. So, that’s probably the most time consuming part of my job, you know, because when I show up, you know, I’ve even had people at SANDAG say—that are a different political party than me—say, “You know, I might not—” And actually this happened like maybe, well it’s happened a few times, but in the last couple of weeks, where this man got up and he said, “You know, Mayor Jones—” and I’m like going “Oh gosh. What’s he going to say?” (both laugh) You never know, right? And then he says, “Mayor Jones, even though I philosophically don’t agree with you on everything, I appreciate that you are always prepared, and you know exactly what you’re talking about because you’re prepared.” And it really does require a lot of time and effort. And, you know, there are times I wake up and I’m like “I’m tired today. I don’t want to work.” But I don’t get that luxury. I have to do what I have to do. And I’ve got to pull it together. And it is a very—you know, the cheerleading part of it and I’m not saying it, you know, like a cheerleader—but, you know, being again the spokesperson, the person that’s in the front, the person that’s out and about the most, probably one of the most identifiable positions in the community—even if people don’t know me, they know that there’s a mayor. You know, to be the mayor of such an incredible city, I’m really humbled by it. I really am. But it does take a lot of effort and it does take a lot of, you know, inner strength. And, you know, I had a pretty tough childhood and, you know, I was a latchkey kid a lot of the time. And, you know, my parents got divorced when I was eleven which is a really tough age. And I had a lot of things happen where I just go “Gosh, I wish it wouldn’t have been my life.” However, it was. But you know what? It also gives me the authority when people are, you know, telling me “You know, I’m going through tough times,” I get it! I was there. I’ve been there. And, you know, I think it helps me do a very good job. And, you know, not everyone thinks I do a good job. But I just got reelected so— SV: Yep! RJ: —again, 64% of the vote. I don’t think I mentioned that before. But the largest margin I’ve ever won by, I think that is a testament to how much I care for the community, how hard I work for the community, and the fact that it’s not all about legislation to me. It really is about being the cheerleader and the person that’s out in the front, talking about what a remarkable community we have. And when I say, “the community,” it’s the people. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It’s not me. It’s people that I represent. And I hope that they will always feel like they can reach out to me, and I will always try to help them in whatever I can. SV: Yeah. Thank you. I think I had maybe one or two more questions. But something that I didn’t necessarily prepare to talk about in this interview, I wanted to ask you about was you mentioned you’re the first mayor that was elected that’s a woman in San Marcos history. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: And I was curious if there are considerations that, in your opinion, that women politicians have to take into account that men do not. RJ: Huh! (Sean chuckles) Well… SV: I know that’s a big question. RJ: Well, I’m also not married. So, it actually is quite awkward— SV: Yeah. RJ: —in a lot of ways, you know, because I am out there. It opens it up for—And, you know, there’s a lot of discussion about bias, right? SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: There is still bias against women. It’s sad. But there are. And women politicians! I don’t know if people are surprised all the time. But, I mean, I have been, I mean, I’ve been called names. I’ve been, you know, people try to box me in as I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to believe that it’s 2023 and things still happen the way that they happen because, you know, talking about what I look like, what my body looks like. I’ve had people actually talk about what my body looks like! I’m thinking, wow! You know? Would you say that to your mother? Because I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t. And so, you know, at a job like this that’s very out there, very highly visible—and I am highly visible—you know, I’ve had a few times, very inappropriate comments, inappropriate messages sent to me. And, you know, a couple of times I’m like “Gee, should I be worried?” And I send everything to the Sheriff’s department when I have things that are sent to me that are uncomfortable. But it’s different than being a man. One hundred percent. It’s very different than being a man. I don’t think you have to worry about people talking about what you look like. I don’t think that any man as a mayor would have people sending them messages about what they look like. SV: Yeah. RJ: I don’t think it would ever happen. Now, I don’t really mean if someone says “Oh, I really like how your style.” That’s not sexual. But the truth is a lot of things that are sent are very sexual and I think—I am actually flabbergasted, and you know I’m almost 56 years old. I’m flabbergasted that at 56 years old, as an elected mayor, that I would be treated like this. But it happens! SV: Yeah. RJ: It’s really hard to believe. And, honestly, I feel bad for every woman that is just trying to do a job and it gets distracted and convoluted by people bringing in other things that are just not appropriate. It’s just not appropriate. I mean, talking about what I look like or whether they—I mean, the first thing that someone said to me—I was offended but it was early on—was that my teeth were freakishly white. And I went (makes a puzzled and slightly disgusted look on her face) “Why would someone talk about that?” I don’t even think someone would say that about a man. SV: Yeah. RJ: But I feel like, as a woman, on some level there is this—it’s open to talk about what you’re wearing, what you look like, whether they think you are, you know, someone they would want to date or someone—I mean, like really inappropriate things when you’re just trying to darn well do a job, you know what I mean? So, it really is just hard to believe that here we are in 2025—or 2023. Gosh, I can’t even believe I just said that. (both laugh) SV: What would your advice— RJ: You can cut that part out! (both still laughing) SV: We’ll make a note. What would your advice be to women entering politics? RJ: That’s another tough one. You know, I have a podcast too. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And one of the things about my podcast that I love is that you’ve got women from every different, you know, career, all different political parties. It’s not at all political. But they’re all just doing their job and they found something that they love. So, I guess one of the things that I would tell women that are thinking about politics, if you love it, you should definitely do it because you’re going to be very, very effective when you can put your heart into it. There is a lot of preparation that happens. And like for me, you know, I now am the one with the historical knowledge because I’ve been around so long. There is a lot to learn. I mean, you really do need to try to figure out why things happened. I mean, when I first joined the council, I spent every single Friday, like half a day, with the City Manager because he was with the city for like 24 years to find out everything I could about the why and the how and, you know, just how things happen because I thought that would prepare me which it has. But don’t let the things—I mean, you are going to have to have thick skin. It’s true. You are going to have to have thick skin, thicker than a man that goes into politics. But don’t be deterred by people. You really need to follow what you think is right and bringing in your own style. Like I don’t know anyone that does my job the way that I do it because I do it my way. And I don’t let any political party call me up and tell me what to do. I follow what I believe is right. And I follow the kind of politician that I want to be, though I don’t really consider myself politician, technically I am. But I really just want to do a good job. I want to be prepared. I think as a woman you probably have to be a little more prepared. Otherwise, people will start thinking that “Well, you don’t belong there. You’re not smart enough. You’re not this.” It really is about taking information and making a good decision. If you’re a good decision-maker, you can do this job. You’re qualified. You love the community, you’re qualified. If you are willing to put a lot into it, you’re qualified. Not everyone has that qualification. And when I say qualification, it’s not just what others believe but it’s what you believe on the inside. And, you know again, back to my podcast, my podcast is about elevating women because we really still need elevating. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: As, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, different segments of the population whether you’re a minority, whatever, it really still is about women too. We do fit into that. The equity and the inclusion isn’t all about your race. It’s about also your gender because our gender still is a hinderance. And some people don’t see that. And I wish more people paid attention to that because when you’re a woman, you’re a minority. You really do have more against you than a man that’s a minority. And as a woman that is not a minority, you still have things against you that are something that a man would not experience. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And I wish more people really paid attention to that. But, you know, back to the point of if you’re a woman and you really want to, if you have a heart for politics, you should not let any one person or segment of people deter you if you really, really have the heart for it because you can do it. It just is going to be probably a little harder than it is for a man. SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that answer. And I think it’s wonderful advice. RJ: Thank you. SV: I’ll give you a much nicer question. RJ: Nah, that’s not a hard question at all! I, honestly, and I really do believe it. I mean, it’s terrible! It really is terrible that we’re still there, in 2023. SV: Yeah. RJ: Why did I say 2025? I don’t know. (Sean laughs) SV: It happens. What is the best day of work that you’ve had? RJ: Oh, gosh. There have been a lot of them. I would say I had a really good one recently. And it’s weird because, you know, it’s always something different. But honestly, when I am out in the community at an event and there are kids and they ask me things like—I was at the Boys and Girls Club and I was, of all things, baking cookies with them. So, let me tell you a little story. So, during the pandemic, we decided at West Lake Village that we, the city, that we were—well, we already knew that we were going to have a long-term lease for the Boys and Girls Club so they could expand their services at that location. And then, when we got some of our ARPA funds, we were like okay, we’ll help them with the TIs (tenant improvements) because then that’ll be good for the community because kids can go there and, you know, spend, you know, more time there. So, anyway, I was like “Oh, they’re going to have a kitchen there.” And I was like “That’s so cool.” So, I called up the director—and by the way, I started a girls mentoring program at the Boys and Girls Club which during the pandemic we had to kind of shut down. But I used my tax refund to put some money into it. And I said to them, I said “You know what would be great?” I go, “I really want to come back and spend more time with the kids,” because I’ve been so busy since I got elected as mayor. I don’t always have time to do all the things I really want to do. And I said, “Can I come back and, you know, bake cookies with the kids?” And they were like “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “So, I want to also donate a mixer.” You know, not all kids get to use a really nice KitchenAid mixer. But it’s really cool to use and to learn and, you know again, like to your point, you know. When you’re a chef, you probably are going to be using one of those at some point in time. So, I was like “I really want to buy one.” I’m like “It’s on my heart. I want to do this.” So, I donated the mixer a while ago. And then I’m like, “Gosh. Okay, it’s January. I need to start figuring out when I’m going to get in and bake cookies with the kids because I really want to do it.” And so, we set up a date. It was right after the darn 78 flooding happened. SV: Oh, yeah. RJ: And CalTrans. And it was that day. It was that day at 4 o’clock. I was supposed to go over there and bake cookies with them. And then I had to cancel because Caltrans had to have this emergency meeting. And I was like on Zoom, and I was like “Oh, darn it.” I’m like “Oh, duty calls.” I’m like “Can we reschedule another day?” So, we rescheduled another day. I get there and the kids are so excited to meet the mayor first of all. And this is, by the way, intentionally in one of our lower income areas of the city. It’s over on Autumn Drive. And they’re like “Do you think I could be a mayor?” And I just got to hang out and talk to them and I’m like—and teach them how to make, you know, how to crack the eggs. They were doing so good. And, you know, so there was about—I think there was like 12 or 14 of them. I’m like “I want to go back and do that like so all the kids that go to that branch have that moment of time with me.” Because I appreciated it as much as they did. And so, for me, the moments like that or when I get to go and talk to, you know, kids that are at the Boys and Girls Club service groups like Girls Scouts, Boys Scouts. All of the kids groups, honestly, those are the best days that I always have. I mean, really, the kids are excited. I’m really excited to hear what they have to say. But I also am getting a different—and back to, you know, my point of going out and door knocking and meeting people and hearing what they have to say about the city. I’m hearing it from kids and they’re going to be 100% honest. SV: Yeah. RJ: They’re not going to sugarcoat it. SV: (laughs) That’s true. RJ: They’re not going to try to fluff me up. They’re not going to try to get something out of me. They are going to tell me exactly what they think about their community. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And you know what? I appreciate that. So, for me, it’s always about the moments with the kids when I get to go out and do things like that. It actually fills me so much more than any other moments because, again you know, you do have to put a lot into it. You know, when you’re out there on—and when I say “on” (air quotes with her fingers) you know, you’re talking to people. And I don’t want people to feel like they can’t approach me. So, I’m very approachable. And that is one of the things that I really do pride myself on. I don’t want anyone to feel like I ever don’t approach—you know, they can’t approach me. And so, one of our community members sent me this message recently and he said to me, “You know,” —his daughter was in the kids mentor, the girls mentor group—and he said “You know,” he goes “it was so cute. My daughter, we were talking about something.” And she’s also a Girl Scout. And he said “Yeah. She says ‘Well, I know the mayor.’” (both laugh) And he’s like “and she was saying this, you know, to my wife and, you know, to—we had friends over and she goes ‘yeah, I know the mayor.’” And he goes “It was the coolest thing because she really felt like she connected with me.” And I’m like “She did connect with me.” and I love that. I love that our kids in the community can feel like they connected with me because I feel like they will never probably forget that. And I oftentimes when I’m places—I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. I was getting some food to go from San Marcos Market. There was a mom and the daughter and I were just kind of talking. And I went out to my car, and I got her one of our city pens and then I said to her, and I say this very often—so, you know, our city emblem is a wayfinding sign, a compass—and I said to her, I said, “Do you know what this is?” I took it back to her. I said, “Do you know what this is?” And she goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, you’ll probably see it on all of our San Marcos signs. It’s a wayfinding sign, so it’s a compass.” And I said, “What it stands for is to discover life’s possibilities. And it’s going to be different for you than it is for me and for your little friends. Every single one of you has something that is your path to success.” And it’s not all—Everyone’s not going to go to a four-year college. I actually didn’t go to a four-year college. But everyone’s going to have a path to success. And I want everyone to know that they’ve got something inside of them that is what their path is and, you know, it might not be traditional. It might be traditional, but it might not. And I want everyone to know that there is their best self. There is a place that is a best self for every single person. And, again, it’s going to be very different for everyone. And, you know, my kids, my daughter just graduated from USD. My son went to Palomar. Totally different kids. Totally different people. But it doesn’t mean that one is going to be more successful than the other. And I want people to know that and believe that in themselves. I didn’t have parents that, you know, tried to make me feel like I could be successful in whatever I did. I honestly believe that my parents just wanted me to get married and have babies. And that was all they really hoped for me. And here I am. I’m the mayor of one of the best cities in the county. And I am so grateful for every moment that I get to spend in the community and encouraging people and spending my time letting them know that we believe in them. We care about them. That’s what my job is in a nutshell. And I know it is kind of back to a different point of what we were talking about. But the truth is every moment that you’re inspiring kids in the community is a win for me. SV: Yeah. RJ: So, those days are the best. And, you know, really I try to—I always carry my pens in the car. I’m like “Wait! Just wait!” I try to throw them, honestly, in my purse sometimes or in my pocket or whatever. I don’t always remember. But I think those moments when you just say that one thing, that could change the trajectory of someone’s life. And I know I remember my fourth-grade teacher, Mrs. Long. Here I am, you know, 56 years old almost. And I remember fourth grade, what she said to me. She said, “You can do bigger things than you think you can.” And I just know that that’s why I am the right person, right now, to do what I’m doing. SV: Yeah. RJ: And I’m so grateful for it. And I really have a hard time believing that I actually am doing this, but I love it. Most days I absolutely love it, SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And there are times when you’re tired and you go “I don’t want to get up today.” But then, you know, you have those days where you really just go “Okay. This is going to fill me in. Now, I can get through another week or whatever.” SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I think that’s a great sentiment to end our interview on. I did want to ask you just one more question and that is if there’s anything that I should have asked you that I did not. RJ: No, because honestly, you know how I—I think you realize what my style is. (both laugh) if you don’t bring it up and I want to say it, I’ll just bring it in there. So, no, I don’t think so. SV: Okay. RJ: Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s funny. At KUSI, they’re like “Oh, well, we’ll just ask you one question. You just know what to do.” (both laugh) “You know what, you can just get everything you want to say in.” I’m like “Oh, okay. Thanks!” And, you know, by the way, when I was first elected as mayor, I was like “I can’t go on TV! I’m scared to death! I’m going to be sweating. I’m going to be stressed. I’m going to say wrong things.” Like now, I’m like, I laugh about it. You know, what I said. I’m like “Aw, geez. Two thousand twenty-five. What am I saying?” (raises her hands and chuckles) You know, but I used to be really hard on myself. But you know what? I don’t think people really want perfection. They want truth and honesty and authentic. SV: Yeah. RJ: And, you know, I try to be those things. I try to be, you know—I don’t even honestly think about it. I just try not to be guarded when I am—And, you know, if I show up to something, I don’t want to be the person that is like “Cheese!” (motions as if smiling widely for a camera) take a picture and then leave. Like, I’m there to do whatever you need me to do. Like if I need to take out trash, get icky stuff on my hands, I’m going to do it. Like, I want to be fully engaged when I show up to things. And I don’t think every politician is like that. I honestly wish there were more people, not exactly my style, but really having the reason as the reason, as the real reason, you know what I mean? Not like “Oh, I’m looking for my next thing, my next higher office.” (makes air quotes with hands) You know, I am planning on running for county supervisor next. But if I’m not elected, I’m totally fine. I’ve done good. I really do believe that. I really do believe I’ve done good. SV: Yeah. When are you running for county supervisor? RJ: In 2026, when this term is over. SV: Okay. RJ: So, not to worry. I’m not going to skip like in the middle of my term. So, Jim Desmond will be termed out and I’m running for that seat. And, you know, it’s a bigger job but, you know, the good thing is I will get paid for the hours that I work. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And then I have staff. So, I think I can work on the same level, you know, put in the same amount but have more fruit because I have people working for me and I’m actually getting paid for it. So— SV: Yeah. RJ: You know, because we make less than $12,000 a year. I don’t know if you know that. SV: I didn’t know. RJ: Yeah. Yeah. I’m the best value in the county. (both laugh) Everyone’s like—Well, actually a bunch of my friends are like “You’re the hardest working mayor in the whole county!” And I go “Well, you know, yeah.” But, again, I’m not one of those people that shows up and like takes a picture and leaves. That’s just not my thing. SV: Yeah. RJ: I don’t do that. Anyway. Anything else? SV: No. Thank you so much for your time. RJ: Do you feel like you know me now? SV: I do! RJ: Okay, good. SV: I appreciate you spending some time— RJ: Yeah. SV: —talking with us today. And I think this is going to be really valuable to our students and researchers in the future. So, thank you. RJ: Well, again, you know our city has come such a long way. And we really do have a lot to be proud of. And I really do believe that people that live here and I hear it time and time again, showing up at their house and they’re like “I love it here.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: “I love this city. I really wouldn’t live anywhere else.” And, you know, even when they’re upset about things, they still don’t want to leave. They still are very happy. They’re like “But, it’s better than—” You know, blah, blah, blah. Or where else. So, I think, you know, we’ve built a great place. My first house was over behind Fire Station No. 2. (points in front and to the left with her left hand) And now I live over off of La Marie. (points behind her right shoulder with her right hand) So, I’ve had three houses over here. So, I’ve owned four houses in the city. SV: Nice. RJ: I’m definitely not leaving. SV: Yeah. RJ: I love it here. SV: Well, thank you, again. I appreciate everything. RJ: Of course, yeah. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
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Title
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Jones, Rebecca. Interview April 12, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos.
Identifier
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SC027-034
Subject
The topic of the resource
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy
Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
San Diego Association of Governments
Women in politics
Date
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2023-04-12
Format
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video
Creator
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Rebecca Jones
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sean Visintainer
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
San Diego County (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Rebecca Jones
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/077ed05bf3a5fde17082d0253ae4443f.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
REBECCA JONES
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-04-23
Sean Visintainer: Okay. This is Sean Visintainer and I’m here today with Mayor Rebecca Jones
of San Marcos, California, doing an oral history interview for the Oral History Special
Collections Project at Cal State San Marcos. Today is April 12th. We’re doing the interview in
the University library. Mayor Jones, thank you so much for joining us today.
Mayor Rebecca Jones: Oh, it’s my pleasure.
SV: I wanted to start off just by asking you some questions about local government. And I think
that it’s something that maybe is a little, at times, opaque to people. And so, I was just curious
because local government can look really different depending upon the municipality. For people
that are going to watch this video, researchers in the future, could you describe a little bit about
how local government in San Marcos happens?
RJ: Well, it used to be the great mystery. So, when I actually got involved with the city, I had no
idea how local government worked. So, I tried to remember and put myself from that perspective
as being just a resident and making things easier. And so, what we do, essentially, is we spend
taxpayer money—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —that is from different sources. Most of it is from sales tax. That’s actually where we have
our largest amount of money to spend for the residents. But then we also have property tax. And
most people don’t know this but out of all of the counties in the city, I believe we are the lowest
city that has the smallest share of property tax. So, out of every dollar we get 7.2¢. So, if you
look at just that in itself, it really is very important for us to figure out other ways to actually
generate revenue. So, we are a charter city. And a charter city allows us to actually have property
that we own which is owned by the residents of the city of San Marcos. And all of that revenue
that we actually have coming in—so Creekside Marketplace would be an example of that as well
as City Hall—but all of that money actually helps augment the very low sales tax that we have.
SV: Okay. So, I assume then you have to be very fiscally responsible.
RJ: Very fiscally responsible. And so, anyway, our job as a local government is to spend your
money wisely; keep you safe which is, honestly, our number one concern in my opinion—it
always has been—and then also making sure we have a good quality of life for people. And so,
you know, during my time on the council, I always again, you know, try to remember as a
resident what is important to our residents. And I actually—this is kind of crazy but when I am
campaigning which, you know, I’ve won five elections now—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —when I’m out campaigning, I actually enjoy the part of knocking on a stranger’s door and
knowing that I’m going to get some feedback that I might not ever get otherwise. And so, I think
it’s really important for me to always remember that part of local government, who you’re
serving, which is the residents of the city, but also keeping everyone safe whether you own a
business, whether you live here, or whether you’re visiting here. We want to make sure that we
have that as our highest priority and, you know, people can drive safely through our community,
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come and shop here. If they’re already passing through San Marcos, which a lot of people do, we
want them to, you know, spend a little more money and enjoy themselves. So, just keeping all of
that in perspective is always at the front of what I’m always thinking and part of what my
leadership is and, you know, just having again a good quality of life where people love to visit,
live here, and, you know, a good place to call home.
SV: Mm-hmm. Can you speak a little bit to how the process of government works, the City
Council, the other people that are involved, the Deputy Mayor, yourself?
RJ: Yeah. So, essentially, there is a City Council Manager style government. So, you might hear
about like a strong Mayor. It’s not that. There’s only one city in the entire county that has that
and that’s the city of San Diego. But a Council Manager form of government, local government,
means that there are five council people. We pretty much have the same authority. However, I
can put anything on the agenda which I have done in the past. But also, you know, I work very
closely with the City Manager. I don’t really have any extra authority.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: There’s a few little things but nothing major. And so, there are five of us that really have to
look out for the best of what’s going on in the community. And we actually started districts back
in 2018 and that actually changed things a bit, because that was the first time where we had
councilmembers that were working specifically and being elected specifically in one area of the
city. So, we have four districts and I’m at-large, so I’m elected by the entire city. And so, each
one of us, you know, we have things that are important to us. We bring them forward. And then
we try to get a consensus on them. My job is to make sure we’re all getting along—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —making sure that everyone’s voice is heard, and then also making sure that, you know, we
always are remembering, even if you’re not representing technically District 1, for instance, that
really District 2, 3, and 4 also matter. And, you know, we only have a certain amount of money,
and we really need to make sure that we’re, you know, spending money where the greatest need
is but also not just focusing on one part of the city.
SV: Yeah. You spoke about consensus building, and I think that’s really interesting since it
seems like a lot of decision making has to be shared decision making in San Marcos. How do
you go about building consensus?
RJ: Well, the biggest, most important thing, in my opinion, is not being political.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, once you bring political parties into it, you really just spoil everything, to be
honest. And so, my job has always been as I’ve seen it is to be apolitical, for the most part.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then also making sure that we are, you know, again spending money wisely and, you
know, really addressing all of the needs and the wishes in the community. And making sure that
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everyone feels that they’re part of the city is also good, you know. It’s doing well. It’s safe. It’s
very important for everyone, like I said, to be safe. I think that has always been super important
but even more now than ever because there are a lot of people that don’t feel safe. You know,
our world has changed. Laws are not the same that they used to be. And so, it’s really important
to make sure that, again, your funding, your fire department, and then also your sheriff
deputies—we are a contract city, which let me speak to that for just one moment.
SV: Sure.
RJ: I’ve had a lot of people during, you know, the downturn in the economy and, you know,
during a lot of political things that have happened, saying to me, “Should we have our own
police force?” Well, we actually still are one of the cities that has the lowest crime rate in the
entire county. And so, that’s an important thing. Are we—what is the need? What is the
problem? And so, you know, starting our own department would be very expensive, probably
$3-4 million dollars. And, if it’s not broken, why fix it?
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, we actually are very lucky that we have some great captains that have come in.
We have them for about two or three years, max. But they always end up being the cream of the
crop. They end up moving on and actually being maybe an under-Sheriff or, you know, an
assistant Sheriff. And so, you know, we really have had some great, you know, leaders in our
Sheriff department. But a lot of people like to come back to our city. They might come here as a
young Deputy, move on, and then they like to come back because it is a good place. We do have
an excellent relationship with them, with the City Council and the Sheriff Department. And so, I
think that really is very telling that, again, back to “if it’s not broken, why try to fix it when
you’re doing very well.” And that’s, you know, one of the things that I think you do need to
always keep in mind is, when things are going well, pay attention to what actually is working.
You don’t have to change everything just for the sake of changing it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But you also don’t need to have things that you look at and say, “Well, we’ve been doing it
that way twenty years, the same way, and it doesn’t work.” That’s when you need to pay
attention. So, anyway, I’m very happy with our sheriff deputies and then also our fire department
too, because they really do bring a sense of wellbeing to our community.
SV: Yeah. We had to call the fire department—
RJ: Oh no!
SV: —not too long ago. They responded very promptly. They—
RJ: Good.
SV: —were wonderful.
RJ: Okay! Well, that’s good to know.
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SV: So, we were very happy with how they did.
RJ: Yeah. Good.
SV: So, you talked about identifying change and maybe not needing change for the purpose of
making change.
RJ: Right. Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell.
SV: I’m a little bit—I was curious how you identify need. So, it’s important to see what doesn’t
need to be changed. But how do you go about recognizing where there is a need?
RJ: Well, a lot of it has to do with feedback, to be honest. I mean, really, if you see something
that maybe isn’t going as well as you had hoped, I mean a lot of it has to do with how people are
feeling in the community. Do they feel like their voices are being heard? And their voice is being
heard doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting everything that they want.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Sometimes, you have to say no. And, you know, that’s the big picture. We have nearly
100,000 people and we have—you know, that live here full-time, and we’ve got about 40,000
students that are coming in, that go to CSU, to Palomar College and all of our other higher
learning institutions. It’s a lot of people. That’s really about 140,000 people that are, you know,
coming into our city every day, whether they live here full-time or not. You know, you have to
figure out how you serve them. So, again, you know, are you providing opportunities for them to
actually enjoy themselves, have recreation. You know, we are actually known for our parks,
which I think is really important at keeping people out and active. And, you know, during the
pandemic for instance, many of the cities were closing their trails and their parks. We followed
the health orders, but we kept our trails open, and we kept our parks, for the most part, open. We
did close our climbing structures and that sort of thing. But we always felt that it was very
important to keep people out and active and having those opportunities because mental wellbeing is important in a community. But then, also having opportunities for people to open
businesses. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about for years—and this year
it is our first time; we’re actually calling it one of our goals— and that’s concierge service, that is
the customer experience because the customers are the community. And then, also, the business
owners, when they come into City Hall, do they feel welcomed? Do they feel like it’s easy for
them? They get the support that they need to open a business. Or, if they’re making changes to
their property or something like that, are we doing everything we can? And, again, do they have
that concierge experience? And so, we’re doing a lot of different things. We actually are just
launching something in the next couple of weeks that will help people understand more about
conditional use permits and opening businesses and finding out where their dream can come true
of opening a business in the city and where it’s actually available to already open pretty easily, or
where it might take a little more work on their end. And so, you know, we just are trying to
always make that experience a little bit better. And, you know, I’m really proud of all the work
that we’ve done since I’ve been on the council. This is my 17th year on the city council. And so,
it’s been a long time.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I remember when I first joined the council, I was the only woman at the
time. And I remember saying “Well, you know it would be great if we had good customer
service.” And at the time, that did not go over very well (Sean chuckles). There was this “Well,
what is that all about?” And, you know, now if you look forward, you know, to where we are
today and how important that is to us, we’ve changed a lot. And so, you know, again, changing
things that you identify as having issues and it’s not just what I think. A lot of it really does have
to do with getting feedback from our community.
SV: Mm-hmm. How do you solicit feedback?
RJ: Well, I try to make as many—myself—as available as possible. And, you know, we talked
about this a little bit earlier about, you know, being available. This is a full-time job.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: It could happen in a grocery store. It could be happening at the park. Wherever I am, I know
that it is important for me to be available.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, Chamber of Commerce events. Really anywhere is a way. I have a very opendoor policy, emails, social media, even though I don’t love social media. It does offer a way for
people to connect with me. And so, I think, again, that is really important. You know, and then
my cell phone. I have it on my cards. I give it to everyone. I have a lot of people that just reach
out to me and say, “You know what? I met you at this event. You gave me your card because I
asked for it. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing this with you. But here’s what I’m
thinking.” And I think that is, in itself, being a mayor of the people. Being available is so
important. And, again, you know back to the point that I made a little earlier as well, and that is
being as apolitical as possible. I really do believe that that’s the best way that you can serve your
community. Not making anyone feel left out and bringing everyone together and being that
consensus builder is really important. So, I work very wholeheartedly and very diligently at
doing that.
SV: Yeah. So, you’re pretty much always on duty.
RJ: I am.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I am which, you know, makes it difficult. It is a hard job—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —to do, you know, pretty much all day every day. But, you know, I have to say I look
around the city and I do have to pinch myself sometimes, thinking “You know, I was a part of
that.” And “Oh, I was a part of that.” I mean, I really am proud of what our community has
become.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, and we really have grown significantly. We are a college town. And then, you
know, we’ve really done a good job, I think, at juggling following state mandates, making sure,
again you know, our community is a good place to call home, also to do business in. You know,
it really encompasses a lot of different things. But I’ve been very intentional about, you know,
making the things that are important to our residents important to me as well.
SV: Mm-hmm. Could you talk a little bit about how the city government functions within the
larger context of, I guess, the county?
RJ: Oh yeah.
SV: You know, how the different municipalities interact and then how the county government as
well, functions with the city.
RJ: So, all mental health is handled through the county. That’s probably the biggest difference of
the county and then cities. So, there are 18 cities plus the county. And then what we have is
several different, you know, regional groups that we are, you know, part of. So, one being
SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments) which is mainly transportation. And then
you’ve got also North County Transit which is for North County. And it’s our transit operator.
And so, and then there’s like the water—we don’t actually have our own water department. So,
Vallecitos Water District handles that. We are a little different than some cities. Like the city of
Carlsbad, they also serve the water as well. But we don’t do that. You know, just really the
biggest thing is when we’re on a board together, you have to wear a regional hat.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You have to figure out—because we don’t work independently as silos. We do work
together. You know, when you look at transportation in itself, you know a lot of people drive
cars, about 97% of the county, about only 2-3% honestly actually use transit. It’s not a system
that actually runs often enough for it to be, you know, serving most people for their lives. Plus, a
lot of people have lifestyles that really it doesn’t fit within their lifestyles. But then there are a lot
of people—well, not a lot, but the people that do use public transit, they really do rely on it. So,
we need to figure out how to serve everyone. And so, you know, is there a possibility of having a
transit system that actually can attract more riders? I believe so.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But it also relies on people making that shift. We need to make sure it’s safe. There is a lot of
people that believe that only people that are homeless ride on public transit. That’s not the case.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Though there are some. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t. There definitely are. But
how do we make it more meaningful and easier for people to use it? So, we do need a balanced
transportation system like I said. And that’s not punishing car drivers and trying to force them
out of their cars. It’s not going to happen. Many people, especially people I think with kids,
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really rely on that, you know, getting their kids where they need to go. And I, you know, my
kids—I have, well, I’ll just give you an example. I had a soccer player and she played
competitive soccer, my daughter. And then my son was a surfer. And so, two very, very
different, you know, life sorts of things that they like to do.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, for me, I was always driving. I was always driving, you know, a big SUV because
usually I was like “Hey, you know what? I’ll pick up your kids too.” So, you know, for practices
and all of that for my daughter, I did a lot of carpooling. With my son, not so much because he
wanted to go, you know, when he wanted to go. So, you know, I’d go and try to run errands
while he was at the beach. And then I’d go back and pick him up. So, you know, a lot of
different lifestyles have different needs. And, you know, so that’s one of the things that I always
try to mention when I’m on that SANDAG committee. I’m on the Board of Directors as Mayor.
And I try to say, “Remember. Let’s not forget about, you know, the parents. Let’s not forget
about our retirees. We really do need a transportation program that fits everyone’s needs.” And it
is tricky. But I think it can be done. But our new regional plan, I think that it really does punish
car drivers in a lot of ways. And we really need to bring more transit, in my opinion, up to North
County. And what I’ve been talking about for quite some time, and it actually will be rolling out
pretty soon, is having micro-transit within cities because that is a way for you to actually get
where you need to go within the city. It’s not going to take you to work or anything like that.
But, you know, on your short trips, you know, getting for instance our kids to school because the
school district has very little busing. They are starting to bring some of it back.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But that really is only for the elementary kids. So, you know, the older kids, the middleschoolers, the high schoolers, how do you get them to school in a meaningful way? And I think
micro-transit is a way to do that. But it’s also a way for people like if you want to go out and
have dinner, have that glass of wine. You don’t have to drink and drive! You don’t have to call
an Uber. If you’ve got a system that actually is on demand, it will meet those needs. And I think
it would serve our community better. So, I think having more conversations about, you know,
different aspects of a transportation plan that fits really the needs of the community like microtransit and then also autonomous vehicles. They are the future more than I think fixed rail or
fixed routes on buses. I think it really does lend better to peoples’ lifestyles. So, you know,
keeping that in mind, that’s what we do at SANDAG. But then also at North County Transit. It’s
all about the same things that I just mentioned about transit. But, you know, working with other
cities it happens a lot. We also have something on the 78 corridor that is something that not the
rest of the nation has. I think it’s one of a kind. And it is that cities work together. And so,
Innovate 78 (multi-city partnership supporting business ecosystem along the Highway 78
corridor) started. And it was really about attracting business to the region. I call us the “upside”
of San Diego because we’re North County.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: We’re very close to Riverside and to Orange County. And, you know, we really have a
different bit of lifestyle. A lot of people that really enjoy the urban living don’t really enjoy it as
much in North County. But we also, you know, we have a lot of space for jobs and, you know,
we also have a lot of homes. And so, a lot of people, you know, North County is a little more
affordable. As you get east of the 5, it, you know, gets a little more affordable. East of the 15 is a
little more affordable. But, you know, also trying to figure out how to balance, again, the
transportation, getting people to work, and all of that is a consideration. But, you know, when
you have large cities like Carlsbad where they have a lot of jobs, where are those people going to
live? Well, a lot of them do live in San Marcos, for instance, or Vista.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, you know, Innovate 78 was all about trying to figure out how to attract businesses. If
the city of Vista has a business or the city of San Marcos has a business within our city, we can’t
find the proper amount of land for them because they want to grow. We work together and our
Economic Development Directors work together to figure out where can we move them to stay
in North County, so they don’t have to disrupt their workforce, so they don’t have to disrupt their
lifestyles. How can we work together to make that happen? And it has been very successful. I’m
very proud of the work that we’ve done. And, you know, it has been recognized that we have
done some really good work together.
SV: Yeah. So, is Innovate 78 like a—is it a formalized structure? Do you have meetings that
happen on a regular basis? Or is it more of a—I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to ask you
here.
RJ: I know what you’re trying to—So, we don’t have—Okay. So, there are quarterly meetings
where it’s the mayors, generally, but not always, and council members. So, they kind of cycle in.
And then they’re hosted in all the different cities. That’s a quarterly thing. But our Economic
Development Directors and staff work actually—they do have monthly meetings. So, they do
work together on a very, very regular basis. And, you know, that, again—You know, we’re
policy makers.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, it’s not imperative that we are there all the time, you know, at a monthly meeting or
something like that. It is when it comes to transportation like SANDAG but not with Innovate
78. And again, you know, there’s a lot of work that has gotten done where, you know, businesses
rather than them, you know, locate elsewhere like another county or something like that or, you
know, maybe in South County, we’ve been able to keep and retain them here in North County
which is a good thing.
SV: Yeah. That is a good thing.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: You talked about micro-transit. I just wanted to clarify what that is in case it becomes
available.
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RJ: Oh, micro-transit is like a small shuttle sort of bus.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Not a big full-sized bus but more of a smaller bus. And it would be—and what North County
transit is going to be—Have you ever seen the Carlsbad Connector?
SV: I haven’t.
RJ: Okay. Well, it’s kind of a, it’s a smaller bus and it would be on demand. That will be rolling
out in San Marcos.
SV: Okay.
RJ: Through North County Transit.
SV: Okay. When will that roll out?
RJ: Actually, sometime probably fall or early next year.
SV: Very cool!
RJ: Yeah.
SV: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey into politics.
RJ: Oh my gosh! Yes. Everyone says, “What made you—
SV: Yeah!
RJ: “—want to be in politics?” Well, I could tell you this much. I never did. (laughs) It’s one of
those things that I just kind of fell into. And so, what ended up happening is I was a young mom,
and really, I didn’t even know how local government worked. I didn’t know what city
government handled. I didn’t know anything about anything. And there was a public notice in
the park next to my home. And, you know, I had a baby at home and a four-year-old. And I was
like “What’s going on? What is happening?” you know. And some of my neighbors were saying
“Oh, we don’t want this in our park.” And I said, “Well, what’s even going on?” And then, as I
started delving into it and I got more information and I actually figured out what was going on, I
went “Yeah. I don’t like that for the park either. I’m not in love with that.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, it really was being involved. I sat down with all of the council members at the time
and I had two council members, a Republican and a Democrat, say to me, “Rebecca, you should
get involved in politics.” And I said, “I have you. Why would I do that?” And they said, “Well,
we’re definitely not going to be doing it forever.” I think both of them were probably right
around 20-25 or 24 years, you know, being involved in the city. And I was like “Why? Why
won’t you do this forever?” And they said, “Well, you know, it’s a big job. However, when you
really want to help shape the community, it’s a good thing.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: And so, I had both of them, you know, talk me into it. First they kind of “voluntold” me. And
I actually first joined the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, originally. And I thought that
was really interesting because I learned a lot about land use, a lot about, you know, just creating
spaces where people could come and, you know, congregate, and really making a community a
place where people can, you know, meet up with their friends and, you know, have those
restaurants and those spaces that are, you know, beautiful and, you know, signature to the
community, very unique. And I really liked that. And so, I was like “Okay. Well, I do like this.”
And I have to tell you, my background is that I was a new home sales agent when I was in my
early twenties.
SV Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then, my ex and I started a furniture marketing company which became very successful.
We had customers. We started out with zero sales. We actually built that into a $100 million
dollars a year in sales with Walmart, Costco, BestBuy as some of our customers. So, it was a
pretty lucrative business.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But, you know, it was really hard. And I remember when he came home one day from work,
he said, “You know, we’re going to start our own business.” And I went “We??” And, you know,
at that time we only had one child and he was one. And he said, “Yes. You’re going to do all of
the business part of it. And I’m just going to do the sales.” And I went “Oh. Okay.” And I go
“You know, I don’t know how to work a computer.” And he said, “Nah, that’s okay. You’re
smart. You could figure it out.” And that’s, you know, that’s really how it started. And so, I’ve
always been kind of a, you know, very I would say involved person. If someone, you know,
gives me a challenge or a task, I will go all in, and I’ll make sure I’ll do a good job. I’m very
conscientious. And so, that really is how it started. Started out, you know, had that background
of business in my, you know, my marriage and owning it. And then, I just went “Well, you know
what? It’s time for me to give back. It’s time for me to be part of the solution rather than, you
know, trying to stop things that are happening, you know as far as development goes.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, there were a couple of other things. The second Walmart, I didn’t agree with that. I
didn’t think the placement was correct. And then there was the Robertson’s Ready-Mix batch
plant over on Barham. And I said “Yeah. This is negative. I’d rather be positive.” I don’t like
negativity, as you could probably tell. I’m a very positive person.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And you know what? I just knew that it was probably the right thing to do. And so, I ended
up actually applying for an appointment because my ex had gotten sick in 2006. So, I wasn’t able
to run a campaign that year. And I applied for the appointment in 2007. I was selected. And then
I have run five campaigns since then and been elected five times. So, I must be doing something
right.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Always been the top vote getter, even if it was for two seats and, you know, I would say that
no one outworks me. No one immerses themselves more into trying to be involved and prepared.
And so, I think that sets me apart because I really am not a politician. I’m just a person that loves
the community and wants to give back and has found a way that I can do that.
SV: And you said that you applied for the appointment for city council, if I’m understanding
correctly.
RJ: Correct.
SV: So, what is that process like?
RJ: Boy, was that fun. I’m just kidding. (both laugh) So, you filled out an application and then
you talked about your experience and what you wanted to bring to the table. And at that time, it
was an interesting time. So, Jim Desmond had just been elected as mayor. And, you know, it
was—there were four men on the council. Pia Harris-Sebert was our first woman ever elected to
the city council. And she was the first woman, but she was really the only woman for quite a
while. We did have Betty Evans that, I think, served one or two terms in between. But she wasn’t
on there. And so, it was really—there were four men left on the city council. And, you know, Jim
Desmond was talking about diversity back then. And, you know, he said, you know, I like what
Rebecca brings to the table, the business background, which is really important. And I think
everyone should have at least some sort of background as far as how you spend money.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, it’s—you don’t have a ton of money to spend and, you know, really being able to
figure out how to best spend that. You know, when you’re a business owner and especially when
you’re starting out a business, you are pretty much trying to figure out how you’re not going to
starve. And so, that really does bring an interesting perspective, I think, to the table. Anyway,
and so, I was selected. There were 27 applicants. I got up to the podium and one of the council
members actually had a lot of disagreements with me. He was supportive of the second Walmart.
And, you know, he brought that up. He said “Well, you know, Walmart, they’re one of your
customers. They must be very forgiving because you didn’t agree with the second Walmart.”
And I said, “Well, you know, it doesn’t mean that I’m against Walmart. It just meant that I didn’t
think the location was okay.” And those two things—you can still feel both things and believe in
both things. It doesn’t mean that you don’t like Walmart. I mean, there are a lot of people in my
community that love Walmart.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, whether I’m a Walmart shopper or not, a lot of people want to shop there.
And so, you know, I think it’s really important that you have a good mix of businesses. And, you
know, I think I brought that to the table. But I also, you know, brought forward the part of—I
really cared about, you know, being able to represent everyone. And I think I’ve been—It has
been a very valuable voice at that table.
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SV: Mm-hmm. So, there’s not an election process for city council? Or there wasn’t at that time?
RJ: Not for an appointment. No, not for an appointment.
SV: Oh, because Desmond—
RJ: Because I’m in an appointment.
SV: Okay. Gotcha.
RJ: Yeah. So, right now, there is a supervisor seat that is going to be vacated. So, there would be
an opportunity for either an appointment or a special election. At that time, a special election was
gauged to be around $300,000.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: It’s very expensive. If you can come up with an agreement on an appointment, it makes
sense, if you can come to an agreement. But it doesn’t always happen.
SV: Yeah. So—
RJ: And, you know, a lot of people have been appointed and have not been able to get elected.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I think there were people that actually spoke against my appointment that
when they saw what I did in my first two years, before I had my first election, they went “Wow.
Okay.” And they’ve been some of my biggest supporters, to be honest.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, that does actually feel good because people do recognize how hard I work. It
does feel good to have that recognized.
SV: Yeah. So, then you ran for reelection then around 2009 or so?
RJ: 2008—
SV: 2008.
RJ: —then ’12, and then ’16. I was elected as a woman’s—or as a first woman mayor in our
city—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —to ever serve as mayor in 2018. And then, I was reelected last year, in 2022.
SV: So, what does an election look like from your perspective when you’ve decided—let’s take
your first time that you’re going after your appointment when you’re going to be reelected or
elected to the city council?
RJ: Oh, boy. It’s a lot of fun. So, first of all, you know, you need to raise money. So, do people
believe in you? Because they’re not going to definitely, you know, donate to your campaign if
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they don’t believe in you. So, the good thing is I did have a record and I was able to point back to
that. But not only was I able to point back to that, I was able to point back to the success in my
business, how hard I’d worked, and all of those things. And, you know, it’s really important, I
think, that you do connect to the community because at the end of the day you can raise all the
money in the world but if you don’t have the votes, it’s really irrelevant. And so, can you get—
And, you know, every single time—and I’ve run five elections—I’ve thought, “Oh my gosh. I’m
losing. I’m losing!” (throws her head back and laughs) I’ve had, you know, like—I remember
my first campaign. Oh my gosh. I showed up to this one woman’s house. This is really deflating.
And she says to me “Oh, I already voted. And I didn’t vote for you.” (Sean chuckles) And I went
“Oh. Okay.” (chuckles) And then I walked away, and I thought “Shoot! You know, why didn’t
she even give me a chance to tell her about myself.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, so it’s a very humbling experience. And, honestly, I would say equally
humbling is actually serving because really, you know, to have people believe in you and when
they say to you, “You know what? I love what you’re doing in our community” it really does
feel amazing because, again, you know back to your hard work but also, I do love the
community. And I do want it to be the best that it possibly can be. And so having that part
acknowledged is really important to me too. But, again, very humbling. And, you know, so every
single campaign I’m like “Okay. Well, if I just go by what people are saying at the doors, I’m
winning! Like I’m winning!” And then I’m like “That could not be how it is. They could just be
saying that to me.” And so, you know, it really is a hard thing. And not everyone can put
themselves out there. It’s nerve wracking. On that election night, you’re going “Okay. Waiting
for the first numbers to come up. What’s it going to be?” And, you know, I have to say my fifth
election, you know this last one, it was very ugly. It was very unfair because I was, you know—it
was a smear campaign, honestly, on my integrity and what I had done for all these years and
trying to paint me into a box. I don’t fit into a box. I’m going to be totally honest about that. I
don’t fit into a box. I’m not a politician, don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a civic leader
and someone that will read everything and make good decisions for the best of everyone. And,
you know, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That part is kind of hard in elected office.
But if you’re making most people happy and you’ve got a safe community, a thriving
community, at the end of the day that’s all you can really hope for and, you know, again making
most people happy but there are going to be some people that don’t like you. I’ve had people
actually comment about what I look like which is very insulting.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: What I look like has nothing to do with the kind of job that I do. And, you know, trying to
call me little nicknames and that sort of thing, I’m not a robot. I am a person so it does hurt a bit.
But, you know, at the end of the day I do remember, you know, some people aren’t going to like
me. That’s okay. I just know, at the end of the day really, if I go to bed and I know that I’ve done
a good job that day, I wake up the next day and it’s a new day and, you know, I can let things go
which it does take that in this job. You do have to let a lot of things go. You know, the personal
insults really don’t matter, I guess, at the end. But, you know, I’m not a robot so it does affect me
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a bit. And, you know, you do have to really remember just to stay true to yourself. And I really
am very proud that I have done that.
SV: Yeah. What is your process for self-care when you’re having a negative day or a stressful
time?
RJ: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I have to get to the gym. I mean, I’m just one of those people, if
I don’t get enough exercise I will literally overthink things. And so, for me, I’m really getting to
the gym. And my gym! Oh, gosh. So, during COVID(-19 Pandemic), closed down in San
Marcos. And I was like “Okay. I’m going to go to another one of them.” It was in Encinitas. But
I really am very specific because it’s not a super long workout and I can do it whenever, you
know, pretty much during, you know, business hours. But I like to be able to go and punch bags
(laughs) and kick bags. It’s a kickbox workout. So, I’m not like punching someone. I don’t want
to do that. But I do, you know—it’s a kickbox workout. So, now, I found another one. It’s in
Rancho Bernardo. So, it’s not in the city which can be kind of beneficial because, you know, I’m
not sweaty and looking like a mess. And then, you know, if I’m like I’m punching and I’m
having an especially frustrating day, I can do that. The other thing I really love to do is hike. I
admittedly have not hiked in a very long time. I actually, a few years ago, hiked in the Tetons.
So, I had to do a lot of training for that. So, I was out on the trails two and three times a week
which it’s actually better for me when I can find that time. The job is very, you know, —it does
entail a lot of time for me. So, it is tough for me to actually do that during the day. And, you
know, when we have rainy weather, that doesn’t help. Or weather that’s too hot, that doesn’t
help. So, you know, really trying to find the time to at least do that. And then I love to cook. So,
during the pandemic, I started cooking for a few elderly people. And so, I have some folks that I
cook for. And when I need a mental health moment, I just go in my kitchen and I just cook up a
storm and several meals and I mean soups and I just try lots of different, new recipes and find
things that I can tweak and make my own.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But those are the things that I do. I do try to do that. I don’t get massages. I really need a
massage many times though. I don’t really take the time to do that. So, really, the biggest thing is
exercise and then getting that cooking in. You know, and then everyone benefits from it.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Because I’m actually not a bad cook, so— (chuckles)
SV: So, what’s your best dish?
RJ: Oh, gosh. Well, that has evolved. I don’t know. I’ve become quite the soup maker. But I do
have my tried and true. I’m really good at prime rib and au gratin potatoes. My kids are always
like “Mom” —and, you know, they’re older. They’re twenty. Actually my daughter will be 23 in
a few weeks, and my son just turned 27. You know, whenever they, you know, want a good
meal, they’re like “Mom. Could you make this? Or can you make that?” and then I made chicken
fingers for the first time ever. And they’re like “Mom. These are like the best I’ve ever had.” So,
anyway, I’m like “Well, I could teach you how to do it.” And so, you know, I’ve had them over a
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couple of times and, you know, teaching people to cook, honestly is—You know, there are a lot
of people that don’t cook in this world, and I think, you know, the less we eat processed food, the
better it is for us. And so, I like to, you know—I cook almost solely organic. I try not to eat
heavily processed food. I think it’s better for me. You know, I’m going to be 56 next year—Oh,
oh my gosh. Not next year. This year! Oh, gosh! In a few weeks. Oh, gosh, about a month. So,
yeah. I’ll be 56. You know, I think our bodies can actually be healthier and mentally better when
we’re, you know, putting the right food in them and then also getting exercise too. So, I try to
definitely do all that to take care of myself. I know that’s a long story but those are the things
that I do. (chuckles)
SV: Yeah. Well, thank you for answering. And I asked the food question because I used to be a
chef. So, I’m always interested to know about people’s experiences.
RJ: Oh, wow! Nice. Nice.
SV: And then exercise, I agree. I mean, it’s so important. I think to bring it back to our interview,
you know, something that I take advantage of is the bike lanes.
RJ: Oh, yeah.
SV: And I was curious as to what your—You know, you’ve talked about transit. You’ve talked
about micro-transit and, you know, what your priorities are in terms of pedestrian and twowheeled transit as well.
RJ: Yeah. Thanks for asking that. So, actually, at SANDAG, this is kind of interesting, I had
actually voted against spending $140, I think it was $140 million dollars on bike lanes. And I had
one of our residents send me a message. And he said, “You’re the worst mayor ever!” And I was
like “Oh. Wow.” And he said, “I can’t believe how you don’t like cyclists.” And I said, “Well,
that’s not exactly how that went.” And so, I explained, you know, that there’s no reason that bike
lanes should be costing $5 million dollars a mile.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: That’s way too expensive. There’s no way that should be happening on a road that is literally
already there. So, I said, you know, I had an issue with that. I have a real problem spending
money in a wasteful way. And, you know, so I said, “Hey, let’s meet.” I sat down with him. He’s
now a fan and definitely not, you know, against me any longer because he didn’t really know all
of the reasons that I felt the way that I felt. I think getting input from cyclists is really important.
You know, again, back to the point that we have 72 miles of, you know, trails. Those are often
times, you know, available for cyclists and, you know, pedestrians, hikers, even horses because
we still have horses in San Marcos.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, I am really proud about that. The one thing that, you know, I’ve done a lot of research on
the different types of bike lanes, and I’m not sold on the cycle tracks. A lot of times the very
serious cyclists are saying to me, “Rebecca, they’re very dangerous because you are confined in
a space.” They look safe. Maybe for kids they’re safe. But they’re very expensive, first of all.
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And they really are not super safe because if you hit that curb for whatever reason, you could be
thrown off of your bicycle and end up in the middle of a lane. That’s not very safe. Or there is a
lot of crashes if you’ve got like—you know, most cyclists are in packs. Hardly anyone goes by
themselves. I have a lot of friends that are very serious cyclists that, since this whole thing came
forward, I’ve actually just from my friend group—and I do have some serious cyclists now in it.
And they don’t really like those tracks. So, in my opinion, any time that we can have a sharrow,
which is the bike lane that is a full lane with cyclists in it and then a car only lane, I think that’s
probably a really good idea. Any time we can have a split because you’re not limited on space or
real estate and have, you know, a separate bike lane that’s by itself but without all of the little
candlesticks and the curbs and all that, I think that’s a good idea. It’s not always possible because
a lot of times you’re putting them in after the fact. I would like to see more education. I am
concerned that some people get really upset with cyclists. And some cyclists—I have to tell you.
I actually had a property down at the beach, a second property, with my ex and, you know, every
time I would go to back out of the driveway cyclists would come and they would like not pay
attention to me. And I would go “Well, they’re not the only one on the road.” And then I would
see them running stoplights and stop signs. And that actually upsets motorists. I hear people say
it all the time. And I go, “I get where you’re coming from. However…” You know, I try to
defend cyclists. But, you know, if we all ran by the same rules or all, you know, followed the
same rules, that would actually be optimum. You’re probably never going to see that, you know.
There are always people that are going to break rules. It’s just how it is. And they shouldn’t spoil
it for everyone. And so, you know, I have to say I am very, very careful around cyclists, and I
really wish everyone was because the truth is a cyclist is never going to win against your car.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It, you know—And, you know, as soon as, you know, you hear of, you know, a cyclist
getting hit by a car and they’re like “Oh, it’s obviously the car’s fault.” Sometimes it isn’t. I
mean, really sometimes it isn’t. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I do think we
need to, again, create the opportunities, education and, you know, let’s just get into eBikes for
one second. The kids should not be on the eBikes that are above their ability. It is a moving
vehicle. It is like being on a moped or a motorcycle. I am—oftentimes, I see the kids, you know,
going wayward and crazy on them. And you know what? It’s a recipe for disaster. And then, you
know what? There are accidents that happen. And, you know, it shouldn’t be all on the driver.
The cyclists, you know, including the eBikes really need to be responsible. I really would love to
see more education in that.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: I have brought that up numerous times. I think the school district really should take a lead in
this. I know our deputies at our Sheriff’s station do it as well. But, you know, a lot of kids are
riding them to school. And it’s very dangerous. Parents, pay attention! (laughs)
SV: Yep.
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RJ: They just think, “Oh, it’s just a bicycle.” It’s really not. And it really is very dangerous and,
you know, we can’t parent the kids. That’s not our job. The parents need to parent their kids and
they need to teach them how to be responsible with their bicycles, their eBikes especially.
SV: Yeah. eBikes are a new wrinkle to resolve, I think, in the whole transit conversation.
RJ: They are. And scary! It really is scary but, you know, very beneficial because they can take
you longer and, you know, longer distances quicker. And you don’t have to be in super good
shape to use them. But if you’re not responsible with them, they’re very, very dangerous.
SV: Yeah. They’re good for the hills around here too.
RJ: Yeah. For sure. I know. Someone said “Oh, yeah, just, you know, ride your bicycle around
town.” And I’m like “Yeah. That’s—” We’re very hilly in San Marcos.
SV: Yep. (both laugh) All right. So, we talked a little bit about your campaign, that first
campaign, in 2008. I guess I wanted to circle back a little bit to even before that, to the San
Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force that you served on from 2005-2007.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: And I was just curious as to what was the goal of the Task Force?
RJ: It was to come up with a plan of mixed use and utilizing that entire area which, by the way,
you know, we’ve been updating our general plan. We’ve put that on hold for now and we’re
going to have a greater emphasis on bringing the Creek District part into that because we do need
to update that plan. So, FEMA has updated the flood plain and all of those, you know, different
areas are going to be changed due to in a 100-year flood, what happens? You know, if we get the
torrential sort of rain that we had, you know, recently, another time or worse than that, oh my
gosh. It makes a big difference. We have—excuse me (hiccups) —we haven’t had a situation
where it’s flooded all the way from Escondido. But it could very well happen. And so, you
know, being prepared is important. You’re not going to build a bunch of buildings in the flood
way. It just isn’t going to happen. Currently, there is, you know, the Valley Christian School
that’s over there. It’s in the flood way. So, they can’t, you know, change their buildings or
anything like that. The reason I bring that up is that’s kind of like the edge of the Creek District
area and then it goes all the way over behind Grand, or right around Grand. And there’s actually
affordable housing that’s right in that area. So, what we did is we approved a plan for that. And
then we also started getting the permits from the agencies so we could build the infrastructure.
The infrastructure will be done this year. That’s a big first step in actually moving that forward.
But, then again, you know we still need to incorporate the part of the land use changes are going
to happen. We also have had people like Gary London come in and say “You’ve got too much
commercial to the residential. You’re going to need to make some tweaks.” So, it likely will not
build as dense as we had originally approved. So, we really do need to update it and bring in
those changes, you know, bringing in the flood plain. And then also the fact that the
infrastructure is actually done also changes things too.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: So, the emphasis will be on getting that updated as well as the general plan.
SV: Okay. So, the original goal then with the Task Force and into when you served on it then
was to create the plan that is now kind of being put into effect.
RJ: Yes, exactly.
SV: And did it account for a Creek District at that time? Because the Creek District is going to
be like a public/private partnership that will help with development.
RJ: Well, there was 62 property owners in there today.
SV: Okay.
RJ: You know, when we approved that, yeah. It was to bring an it, a place, a place where people
could come—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —congregate, as I had mentioned earlier, and really, you know, a space where it would be,
you know, open. And, you know, you could have, you know, different community events there
and that sort of thing. Also, North City is that way. North City we actually approved as a
university district back in 2009. We always thought the Creek would come first. Well, University
District has now really become. And again, you know, we don’t even have an actual downtown
in San Marcos.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, you know, creating a downtown, creating that space. It looks like North City is becoming
that. You know, we’ve got the Belgian Waffle Ride coming this weekend. It’s the largest cycling
event in the western United States. It’s a big deal. Thousands of cyclists are coming from all
over. They’re going to be eating in our city. They’re going to be staying here. We don’t have a
ton of hotels. There are going to be a couple of other ones in North City and then also in the
Creek District eventually. But really creating that downtown was one of the things that we really
wanted to do. But we always saw North City—a university district back then when we approved
it—and then the creek, because they connect.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Having that as a center core for the city.
SV: When do you think North City will be built out?
RJ: Oof. Well, that depends on so many different things. If I had a crystal ball, I could answer
that.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, they’ve been (sighs), they’ve been through a downturn in the economy. They’ve
been through a pandemic. You know, they’ve been through a lot. If you go there today, you
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know, they’ve got several restaurants. They’ve got the only, first of its kind, building with the
university which is the Extended Learning Building because there’s nothing like that in all of
California. And then you’ve got like Mesa Rim. You’ve got Draft Republic which was the old
Urge Gastropub. You have Newtopia Cyder, Fresh Café, Maya’s Cookies, Wynston’s Ice Cream,
Copa Vida, Buona Forcbetta, Umami, a lot of things happening there but, you know, not the
residences. You have a little bit of residence there. You’ve got the quad, which is university, you
know, kids that live there. And then you have Block C. And then you have the block that’s The
Wrap behind. And then also, you know, don’t forget too Pima Medical is right there. And then,
you know, you’ve got medical offices now, Scripps Health. And so, a lot of things are
happening. It really is on the edge of becoming something much bigger. They have broken
ground on and they’re moving forward with the first large-scale residential in there. And it’s
going to be about 12 stories high. And so that will really be a game changer, I think, for North
City. I think that will be what brings the really the grocery store and the other businesses that
they need that can actually handle those residents and offer the services that they need. And, you
know, that’s always what the Creek was envisioned. I mean these are things that I learned when
we were, you know, going on these field trips to old Pasadena and, you know, all these different
places that were mixed use because we didn’t really have much mixed use at that time in the city.
We have a little bit over off of Mission but it’s very, very small scale. You know, having the
meeting spaces, having the, you know, congregation spaces where you can have like an open-air
amphitheater, something like that, that’s all things that really we started with the planning of the
Creek District. Again, you know, we have to update that. But really—And it, you know, kind of
grew into also North City being part of that, being a large scale downtown core area for us.
SV: Yeah. There is a lot of construction going on right now.
RJ: Yes. There is.
SV: You have the infrastructure going on along the Creek District. You have it seems like three
or four different projects right around North City and in North City.
RJ: Yeah. So, you know, okay. So, back when I was selling new homes in my early twenties, I
was working at Discovery Creek, Discovery Trail, so Discovery Hills. And back then we had,
you know, this big map that showed everything that was going to happen in the, you know, the
adjoining property. Back then, Craven (Road) wasn’t even there. I mean this—just to date myself
of how long I’ve been around in San Marcos. First moved here in 1987. Just looking at, you
know, what it was going to be with Kaiser Hospital, Scripps Hospital which isn’t going to
happen now. But they are going to have medical offices, much like Carmel Mount Ranch.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, pretty large-scale medical offices. You know, unfortunately, you know medical is always
something that we need. And, you know, fortunately though we’ve got some space to put that.
You know, we don’t want people to have to go all the way down to Carmel Mount Ranch to go
to a doctor. And, you know, currently Kaiser Permanente doesn’t have a hospital. The nearest
one is Mira Mesa. So, 180,000 subscribers in North County have to go all the way there for a
hospital. So, it’s going to be opening up in August I’m told. They’ve got a ribbon cutting all
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scheduled. And the Creek project, the infrastructure, it’s about $112 million to start. That is our
largest capital improvement project we’ve ever had. We broke ground on that on my one-year
anniversary of taking office as Mayor, which is exciting being that, you know, I’d only been
talking about it for 10-12 years (laughs) before that. And, you know, before me many other
councils had talked about it. You know, this year is our 60th anniversary or birthday, and our
sister city Vista, it’s their birthday as well. We were incorporated on January 28, 1963. And so,
here we are. We’re in our birthday year, opening up our largest capital improvement project,
opening up our hospital. I mean, a lot is happening. There’s also an extension of Discovery
(Road) which is about $40 million as well, 30-40 million. That is going from Craven (Road) all
the way through to Twin Oaks (Valley Road). That’s a big deal too, getting that done. But, you
know, we’re trying to move people around in a meaningful way. That will be one of our first
corridors that has intuitive lighting, stop lights that will help people get through. But one of the
things that I’ve really focused on that I want to get done is to make sure that we’re getting the
traffic flow better. Traffic, it does feel like it’s at its worst. That’s one of the things that my
opponent (Randy Walton) was using against me during the campaign. I’m like “Well, we’ve got
all this road construction. Sure as heck, we’re going to have terrible traffic right now.” But when
it’s done, I believe it will be a significant improvement. You know, getting the flooding to stop
so you no longer have that. Being able to have two lanes over Via Veracruz is a big deal. And I
remember originally when we were talking about, you know, the Bent Crossing. We talked about
a—to save money, well, what if we did an Arizona Crossing (culvert crossing), which I don’t
know if you’re familiar with that.
SV: I’m not.
RJ: It would still flood!
SV: Okay.
RJ: And I said “No. No. No. Let’s, let’s not do that.” So, we were able to apply for federal funds.
And so, a lot of it is grant funded but a lot of money also comes from San Marcos residents. So
again, you know, back to wanting to spend their money wisely. Helping move them around the
city is really important. We appreciate everyone being so patient—not always patient. But, you
know, it has been a tough, tough project because we’ve had unprecedented rain this year, of
course. Of course, it had to happen! Just when we weren’t expecting it to happen. But, you know,
it would have been a heck of a lot worse had we not had the bridge at Bent opened. I think that
could have been actually dangerous for our residents if we had not gotten so far ahead on that.
But that will be done probably about a July timeframe. So, the infrastructure will be done. The
hospital will come right after that in August. I would say it’s a good year, a good year that we’re
getting a lot done, you know, the hospital done and everything, just a lot of good things for our
residents. And again, you know, the jobs that we’re providing too, that’s a thousand jobs at
Kaiser Permanente. So, those are some really good high-paying jobs. I think that’s a huge win.
I’m really proud of that. You know, when I first got the call from their west coast person, he said
to me “Are you still interested in the hospital?” And I was like “Where do I sign up?” (laughs)
Because, yes! Of course, I’m still interested. Anything we can do to help make that happen, you
know. And, you know, also having the university have, you know, the nursing program has been
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really important. And then, you know, also over at Palomar because, you know, these are also
the ability to teach, you know, hands on is a big deal. And, you know, we’re becoming a
healthcare hub, now, of North County which is great, you know, with the hospital opening up
and then Scripps are moving forward with their big medical offices. It’s, you know, again it’s sad
that people are not healthy, however good that they have the ability to get those healthcare
options close to home.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And the good jobs, of course.
SV: Yes.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: Yeah. Definitely.
RJ: In fact, my niece actually just got her nurse’s license. So, very exciting.
SV: Congratulations to your niece.
RJ: Yes, very exciting.
SV: I wanted to circle back a little bit to 2018 and just ask you why did you decide to run for
mayor then?
RJ: Oosh, well, I decided well before 2018. I actually decided when I was getting elected in 2016
as mayor. I talked to my husband at the time and, you know, ’18 was a tough year, I have to tell
you. I was finishing up my divorce. He told me he didn’t want to be married anymore in 2017.
So, I was in the middle of a divorce. I had to sell the property, buy a property. I moved 10 days
after the election. A lot of people don’t know how hard that was. It was really tough. But, you
know, what I knew that, again, you know being apolitical, really pretty apolitical, was an
important thing for our future. I think also, you know, having these large-scale things coming up.
I wanted to see them through. And, you know, I have to tell you, looking back and seeing all that
we have been able to accomplish during my time on the council, I’m so proud. I know that when
I’m ready to retire, I can look back and be very proud of what I’ve been able to accomplish with
very, you know, diverse group of people. We now have three women, by the way, on the city
council which is great. But, you know, again, you know, for 2018 having the first mayor that’s a
female, that’s pretty surprising. You know, as progressive as the city is and, you know, how
entrepreneurial we’ve really been, I always thought it would be Pia Harris Ebert, which she has
been a wonderful mentor to me. I can’t express enough how much I value her leadership, all of
her 24 years on the city council. But, you know, when she told me she was retiring, I said,
“What?? You can’t go!” and she said, “You know what? I can look back and I can be very
proud.” I mean we used to be known for our chicken ranch and then our dairy. And that was it!
We were known as a chicken ranch and dairy city, not for higher learning education, being a
great place to run a family, a great school district. We were never known for that. We were
known for other things. So, I really am proud of how we’ve elevated who we’ve become, the city
that we are, and all that we have accomplished. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, the
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things needed to be seen through and now, you know, I’m on my second term as mayor just, you
know, getting reelected last year. I am very happy. I’m very happy. But I’m also, you know, as
concerned about, you know, creating opportunity for a new team to come in that is like-minded,
focusing on us being a safe city, focusing on us being an entrepreneurial city, also making sure
that we are serving our community and providing awesome trails and parks and all of that. And it
becomes very challenging when you’re an infill city, and as built out as we are. So, you know,
it’s got to be, you know, trying to find good people that want to come after me. And that’s, you
know, what both Pia Harris Ebert and Hal Martin did.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And I appreciate that. And I take that responsibility very seriously as well. So, that’s what
I’m going to be doing the next three years, three and a half years. And then, you know, making
sure that we stay focused. And we’re going to have some tough financial times. You know,
it’s—business has not come back the way that we’ve all hoped. And so, you know, we hear of
layoffs all the time. You know, General Atomics, I think they laid off 400 people last week.
That’s a lot! So, having those challenges you really do need to have a good team in there. But,
you know, I’m trying to bring other people forward because that’s a big part of, you know, a
succession plan. It’s really important.
SV: Yeah. You mentioned businesses haven’t come back. Were you referring to from the
(COVID-19) pandemic?
RJ: Correct. Yes.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Just not in the way—you know, we do have a lot of businesses that have opened. But, you
know, we also lost some. I mean, San Marcos Brewery, I still am sad about that, you know, a
long-time business in our city, gone. Couldn’t keep their doors open with the open and closing
and all of that. There are a lot of stories like that, unfortunately. And so, you know, being able to
support the business community, I work a lot at that. I mean if I—I try to do everything I
possibly can to support our businesses. And, you know, it’s not like one business. It’s thousands,
you know. We’ve got like four tho—let me think here—four thousand businesses here in the
city. It’s a lot!
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It’s a lot. It’s actually upwards of four thousand. And, you know, many of those are store
fronts and they’re very small and, you know, they’re family owned. And, you know, I love that. I
love that they’re thriving. I love that they’re doing well. I was actually just at a business opening
a couple of weeks ago. The father-in-law of this young woman that just opened a brand-new
business, he is a long-time business owner in San Marcos, twenty—I think twenty-six years he’s
been in business. So, you know, seeing those generations, you know, staying in the city, opening
up new businesses. I love that. But, you know, they’re going to need our help. And, you know,
they need us to congregate and go to their businesses and, you know, spend our money here
locally. And I try to always, you know, emphasize that. You know, during the pandemic, I
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tirelessly spent so much time on, you know, media just hey talking about all of our great
businesses, and what about this and what about that and you know they need us now. But they
need us still now. It’s not going to end. And, you know, a lot of them are really struggling. So, as
costs go up, people eat out less. They spend less of their money. And so, we’ve got to remember
that, when you can, try to spend it locally, whenever possible.
SV: Yeah. I imagine a lot of governance is trying to minimize the bad impacts of change, you
know, unforeseen or foreseen. And you talked a little bit about the pandemic. I was curious as to,
you know, what you could do to lessen the burden on folks during that time and what you all did
do.
RJ: Gosh. Wow, we did a lot actually. We were the first city that—you know, we have always
had very good reserves.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, that’s something that is because we’ve been very fiscally responsible. That
money is for rainy days. And when the pandemic came, that was a rainy day.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It really was. And so, we set aside $3 million. We were the first city, I believe. The only
other city that may have actually beat us was the city of San Diego. But I think they set aside like
$5 million. We set aside $3 million. They’ve got a population of 1.3 million.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: We have a population of under 100. So, I think we really outshined them in that. And I’m
really proud that we did that. And that is, you know, that’s being very, very pro-business. I’ve
always been pro-business, you know, being that I owned my own business and I know how hard
it was. I thought that was something that we should do. And I wholeheartedly believe it’s the
right thing to do for our community. But, anyway, so we did that. And we had business loans.
So, it was small business loans up to $50,000, depending on your circumstances. We hired an
outside company to do all the credit checks. And just, you know, you couldn’t be late prior to
Covid. You know, you had to meet a few guidelines. But we were very intentional about trying
to get that money out fast, as fast as possible.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: The federal government didn’t have any money out. And we had already saved a lot of
businesses. Then the other thing that we did is we were the first city that had our businesses, as
soon as the governor—I remember watching the press conference. And Governor Newsom said,
when he was talking about some of the businesses could no longer be operating inside, but he
didn’t say outside! I was on the phone to our economic development director, and I said, “I’m
thinking we can have outside businesses. What can we do to make this as quick as possible.”
And we had people moving their businesses. And it was a lot of services, like haircutting and all
of that. And then there was another issue about that because—and, you know, restaurants and
everything. But there was another issue with that because they didn’t have their business
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licenses. So, we were actually fighting to open up. And, you know, I mean, again, tirelessly, the
letters that I sent to the governor. I mean, I was on full blown action I felt like the whole time,
which is very exhausting.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: But it was like okay, let’s get those businesses moved outside as soon as they can. And we
had businesses and we’re like “Don’t worry about your permit. We’re going to check, make sure
that you are following it. Just follow these guidelines and we’ll come and check on you.” We had
businesses out there before any other. And we didn’t charge anyone a fee. There were a lot of
cities that were out there charging them a fee. We’re like no. We need our businesses to stay in
place. We need to support them, and we can’t just say that we’re supporting them. We actually
have to do it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, I am really proud that we did that. And, you know again, we didn’t close all of our
trails. We were not very out in public, you know, screaming it from the rooftops that we’re open
because we didn’t want our city residents to feel crowded because all of the other residents from
the other cities were coming, though some people knew about them. It was just—it was
important for us to do everything we could to support the community. So, fast forward to when
we received our federal funds, we were actually able to take all of those loans and make them
grants so they didn’t have to be paid back. That was huge.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: The other thing that we did is we set aside some of our ARPA (American Rescue Plan Act)
funds to help our non-profits.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Because they were really hurting at that time too. And I am so proud of all of the things that
we did during the pandemic because it was us being innovative, us cutting through the red tape,
and us working hard to support our businesses and our community and our non-profits. Because
our non-profits support our residents, right? And then the other thing that we also did is—and it’s
not our responsibility, though we recognized that our community, our youth were doing very
poorly. You know, I’ve been involved with the Boys and Girls Club for many years. And one of
the things that they—I was having a conversation with them—one of the things that they were
saying is that many of the kids that are at risk were not checking in. And so, you know, you’ve
got parents that are very frustrated. The kids are at risk of being abused or neglected. And you’ve
got this ultra tough situation happening. So, the mental health of our community, you know,
we’ve really tried to focus on that too. And so, one of the things that we did for our youth in the
community is we partnered with the school district, and we are equally funding the mental health
program that they have rolled out to help the kids bounce back and figure out. You know, a lot of
them are so confused. A lot of them have learning deficits. They don’t know how to articulate
that, their frustration, their fear and, you know, just getting sick. You know, a lot of them are
terrified of getting sick. And, you know, what is life going to be? It’s very different.
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SV: Yeah.
RJ: You know, back to the whole pivot—I mean, I know pivot is kind of overused during the
pandemic, but it’s a real thing. And so, for us as a city, you know, we made an intentional effort
to do what we could to also help the kids. And, you know again, I think I told you this a little bit
earlier, you know, I had people—I felt like a counselor many times during the pandemic. I had
some of our folks calling me up and sending me messages and saying, you know, “I’m scared.”
And so, I would check in on people and let them know, “Hey. You know what? You’re seen.
You’re heard. We care about you.” So, you know, mayor’s job is not just all legislation. You
know, there’s a lot of parts to it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I think something that a lot of people think is really, it’s just all about rules
and regulations. That’s all your job is. Well, I think as a mayor especially, and a councilmember
to some degree, but I think as a mayor I’m the figurehead pretty much for the city council. A lot
of people know who the mayor is, and they might not know who their councilperson is. For me
to be the face of our city, out there letting people know that we care about them and letting them
know that it’s not all about rules and regulations. We actually had a young man that was
murdered within our community by one of his friends. He was in his early 20s. And, you know,
we renamed a trail after him, actually the Gratitude Trail in his memory, right there around
Discovery Lake because us doing things to help our community heal in tough times, in tragic
times, is really important. And I really do think that that’s a part of government that sometimes
people are like “Well, I’m a politician. I don’t have to do that.” Yeah, you don’t have to do it.
But I think doing it is important because, again, you know, how—you know, during the
pandemic, people needed to know we care about you.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: We care about your businesses. We’re all in with you. We’re going to do everything we can
to keep you open and do it safely, of course. But, you know, when it was all the big businesses
could stay open and then the small businesses were closed. They couldn’t adapt to that!
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Many of them went out of business. And, you know, so we had to make it so that it’s easy for
every small business to get a fair shake, to be treated like a large business, you know, while also
following the health order. So, it was a real tough time. And, again you know, back to grief.
You’ve got to deal with grief too within a community and figure out how to move people
forward. And, you know, one of the things that I think is always important is, even if you’re
taking baby steps moving forward, you’ve got to move forward. Whatever that looks like. And
sometimes it’s very different than two weeks ago even.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I mean when the pandemic hit, remember, two weeks! Staying home.
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SV: Yeah. We have a archive that we started mostly with the students, but with community as
well, trying to record experiences during that time.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: And it’s amazing so many students especially writing “I thought I was going to have a twoweek vacation and here I am a year later.” And, you know, it’s just—
RJ: Yeah.
SV: —it’s just a traumatic experience all the way around.
RJ: For sure. And, you know, I mean that is a part, I think, of being a mayor during a pandemic
that I—you know, it’s kind of interesting. I was on a Zoom with some girl scouts, and they said
to me “If you knew there was going to be a pandemic, would you still run for mayor?” (Sean
laughs) And it was funny because I didn’t even hesitate and I said, “Absolutely!”
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And the reason being is because I was the right person at the right time. I am very positive
and I’m very—I mean, you know, the glass is not half-full. The glass is almost to the top, right?
There’s always a way to bring everyone together. There’s always a way to, you know, encourage
people. And, you know, that’s what I did! My job changed. But I kept working. And, you know,
there were a lot of people that really needed to be seen and I let them know they were being seen.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I think without hesitation I am glad that I was the mayor at that point in time.
SV: Mm-hmm. It’s a really interesting thing that you say about there being—I guess you’re
saying so your job is obviously legislation. But it’s also emotional labor and care and I’m
hearing as well, communication is important.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: What are some other aspects? I guess my question is what would surprise people the most
about your job that people don’t know?
RJ: Oh, that’s a tough one. Gosh, I don’t even know if I have an answer to that. You know, it’s
interesting. So, Jeff Zevely, he’s from Channel 8. He actually was doing a show on our birthday.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And he said to me, he goes “You know, if San Marcos had a cheer squad, would you be on
it?” and I said, “I’m the head cheerleader! What are you talking about?” (both chuckle) And he
even said to me after the interview, he goes “You were so fast. You didn’t even like stop for one
second.” I said, “Well, that’s my job.” My job is to not just deal with all the tough stuff. It’s also
to be out advocating that San Marcos is a great place to live. We have so much for—You know,
you can start out, you know, as a baby. And pretty soon you’ll be able to be born here (indicates
quotations with her fingers), actually born here, because—I mean, I guess you could be born at
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your house if you’ve got a midwife or something but, you know, it’s not a traditional thing. You
could be born here, and you can earn a master’s degree and then you could work here, and you
could have a good paying job. Like that is a remarkable thing if you look at our city from our
humble roots: one stop light, chicken ranch, the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch right here where the
university is today.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And Hollandia Dairy. That’s all we were known for. And so, yeah, I would say a lot of
people might not know what that entails but it’s a lot of time and effort. I can assure you of that.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Like it’s almost more than the actual job, although I do a lot of reading. So, that’s probably
the most time consuming part of my job, you know, because when I show up, you know, I’ve
even had people at SANDAG say—that are a different political party than me—say, “You know,
I might not—” And actually this happened like maybe, well it’s happened a few times, but in the
last couple of weeks, where this man got up and he said, “You know, Mayor Jones—” and I’m
like going “Oh gosh. What’s he going to say?” (both laugh) You never know, right? And then he
says, “Mayor Jones, even though I philosophically don’t agree with you on everything, I
appreciate that you are always prepared, and you know exactly what you’re talking about
because you’re prepared.” And it really does require a lot of time and effort. And, you know,
there are times I wake up and I’m like “I’m tired today. I don’t want to work.” But I don’t get
that luxury. I have to do what I have to do. And I’ve got to pull it together. And it is a very—you
know, the cheerleading part of it and I’m not saying it, you know, like a cheerleader—but, you
know, being again the spokesperson, the person that’s in the front, the person that’s out and
about the most, probably one of the most identifiable positions in the community—even if
people don’t know me, they know that there’s a mayor. You know, to be the mayor of such an
incredible city, I’m really humbled by it. I really am. But it does take a lot of effort and it does
take a lot of, you know, inner strength. And, you know, I had a pretty tough childhood and, you
know, I was a latchkey kid a lot of the time. And, you know, my parents got divorced when I was
eleven which is a really tough age. And I had a lot of things happen where I just go “Gosh, I
wish it wouldn’t have been my life.” However, it was. But you know what? It also gives me the
authority when people are, you know, telling me “You know, I’m going through tough times,” I
get it! I was there. I’ve been there. And, you know, I think it helps me do a very good job. And,
you know, not everyone thinks I do a good job. But I just got reelected so—
SV: Yep!
RJ: —again, 64% of the vote. I don’t think I mentioned that before. But the largest margin I’ve
ever won by, I think that is a testament to how much I care for the community, how hard I work
for the community, and the fact that it’s not all about legislation to me. It really is about being
the cheerleader and the person that’s out in the front, talking about what a remarkable
community we have. And when I say, “the community,” it’s the people.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: It’s not me. It’s people that I represent. And I hope that they will always feel like they can
reach out to me, and I will always try to help them in whatever I can.
SV: Yeah. Thank you. I think I had maybe one or two more questions. But something that I
didn’t necessarily prepare to talk about in this interview, I wanted to ask you about was you
mentioned you’re the first mayor that was elected that’s a woman in San Marcos history.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: And I was curious if there are considerations that, in your opinion, that women politicians
have to take into account that men do not.
RJ: Huh! (Sean chuckles) Well…
SV: I know that’s a big question.
RJ: Well, I’m also not married. So, it actually is quite awkward—
SV: Yeah.
RJ: —in a lot of ways, you know, because I am out there. It opens it up for—And, you know,
there’s a lot of discussion about bias, right?
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: There is still bias against women. It’s sad. But there are. And women politicians! I don’t
know if people are surprised all the time. But, I mean, I have been, I mean, I’ve been called
names. I’ve been, you know, people try to box me in as I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to believe
that it’s 2023 and things still happen the way that they happen because, you know, talking about
what I look like, what my body looks like. I’ve had people actually talk about what my body
looks like! I’m thinking, wow! You know? Would you say that to your mother? Because I’m
pretty sure you wouldn’t. And so, you know, at a job like this that’s very out there, very highly
visible—and I am highly visible—you know, I’ve had a few times, very inappropriate comments,
inappropriate messages sent to me. And, you know, a couple of times I’m like “Gee, should I be
worried?” And I send everything to the Sheriff’s department when I have things that are sent to
me that are uncomfortable. But it’s different than being a man. One hundred percent. It’s very
different than being a man. I don’t think you have to worry about people talking about what you
look like. I don’t think that any man as a mayor would have people sending them messages about
what they look like.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I don’t think it would ever happen. Now, I don’t really mean if someone says “Oh, I really
like how your style.” That’s not sexual. But the truth is a lot of things that are sent are very
sexual and I think—I am actually flabbergasted, and you know I’m almost 56 years old. I’m
flabbergasted that at 56 years old, as an elected mayor, that I would be treated like this. But it
happens!
SV: Yeah.
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RJ: It’s really hard to believe. And, honestly, I feel bad for every woman that is just trying to do
a job and it gets distracted and convoluted by people bringing in other things that are just not
appropriate. It’s just not appropriate. I mean, talking about what I look like or whether they—I
mean, the first thing that someone said to me—I was offended but it was early on—was that my
teeth were freakishly white. And I went (makes a puzzled and slightly disgusted look on her face)
“Why would someone talk about that?” I don’t even think someone would say that about a man.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: But I feel like, as a woman, on some level there is this—it’s open to talk about what you’re
wearing, what you look like, whether they think you are, you know, someone they would want to
date or someone—I mean, like really inappropriate things when you’re just trying to darn well do
a job, you know what I mean? So, it really is just hard to believe that here we are in 2025—or
2023. Gosh, I can’t even believe I just said that. (both laugh)
SV: What would your advice—
RJ: You can cut that part out! (both still laughing)
SV: We’ll make a note. What would your advice be to women entering politics?
RJ: That’s another tough one. You know, I have a podcast too.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And one of the things about my podcast that I love is that you’ve got women from every
different, you know, career, all different political parties. It’s not at all political. But they’re all
just doing their job and they found something that they love. So, I guess one of the things that I
would tell women that are thinking about politics, if you love it, you should definitely do it
because you’re going to be very, very effective when you can put your heart into it. There is a lot
of preparation that happens. And like for me, you know, I now am the one with the historical
knowledge because I’ve been around so long. There is a lot to learn. I mean, you really do need
to try to figure out why things happened. I mean, when I first joined the council, I spent every
single Friday, like half a day, with the City Manager because he was with the city for like 24
years to find out everything I could about the why and the how and, you know, just how things
happen because I thought that would prepare me which it has. But don’t let the things—I mean,
you are going to have to have thick skin. It’s true. You are going to have to have thick skin,
thicker than a man that goes into politics. But don’t be deterred by people. You really need to
follow what you think is right and bringing in your own style. Like I don’t know anyone that
does my job the way that I do it because I do it my way. And I don’t let any political party call
me up and tell me what to do. I follow what I believe is right. And I follow the kind of politician
that I want to be, though I don’t really consider myself politician, technically I am. But I really
just want to do a good job. I want to be prepared. I think as a woman you probably have to be a
little more prepared. Otherwise, people will start thinking that “Well, you don’t belong there.
You’re not smart enough. You’re not this.” It really is about taking information and making a
good decision. If you’re a good decision-maker, you can do this job. You’re qualified. You love
the community, you’re qualified. If you are willing to put a lot into it, you’re qualified. Not
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everyone has that qualification. And when I say qualification, it’s not just what others believe but
it’s what you believe on the inside. And, you know again, back to my podcast, my podcast is
about elevating women because we really still need elevating.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: As, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, different segments of the population
whether you’re a minority, whatever, it really still is about women too. We do fit into that. The
equity and the inclusion isn’t all about your race. It’s about also your gender because our gender
still is a hinderance. And some people don’t see that. And I wish more people paid attention to
that because when you’re a woman, you’re a minority. You really do have more against you than
a man that’s a minority. And as a woman that is not a minority, you still have things against you
that are something that a man would not experience.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And I wish more people really paid attention to that. But, you know, back to the point of if
you’re a woman and you really want to, if you have a heart for politics, you should not let any
one person or segment of people deter you if you really, really have the heart for it because you
can do it. It just is going to be probably a little harder than it is for a man.
SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that answer. And I think it’s wonderful advice.
RJ: Thank you.
SV: I’ll give you a much nicer question.
RJ: Nah, that’s not a hard question at all! I, honestly, and I really do believe it. I mean, it’s
terrible! It really is terrible that we’re still there, in 2023.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Why did I say 2025? I don’t know. (Sean laughs)
SV: It happens. What is the best day of work that you’ve had?
RJ: Oh, gosh. There have been a lot of them. I would say I had a really good one recently. And
it’s weird because, you know, it’s always something different. But honestly, when I am out in the
community at an event and there are kids and they ask me things like—I was at the Boys and
Girls Club and I was, of all things, baking cookies with them. So, let me tell you a little story. So,
during the pandemic, we decided at West Lake Village that we, the city, that we were—well, we
already knew that we were going to have a long-term lease for the Boys and Girls Club so they
could expand their services at that location. And then, when we got some of our ARPA
(American Rescue Plan Act) funds, we were like okay, we’ll help them with the TIs (tenant
improvements) because then that’ll be good for the community because kids can go there and,
you know, spend, you know, more time there. So, anyway, I was like “Oh, they’re going to have
a kitchen there.” And I was like “That’s so cool.” So, I called up the director—and by the way, I
started a girls mentoring program at the Boys and Girls Club which during the pandemic we had
to kind of shut down. But I used my tax refund to put some money into it. And I said to them, I
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said “You know what would be great?” I go, “I really want to come back and spend more time
with the kids,” because I’ve been so busy since I got elected as mayor. I don’t always have time
to do all the things I really want to do. And I said, “Can I come back and, you know, bake
cookies with the kids?” And they were like “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “So, I want to also donate a
mixer.” You know, not all kids get to use a really nice KitchenAid mixer. But it’s really cool to
use and to learn and, you know again, like to your point, you know. When you’re a chef, you
probably are going to be using one of those at some point in time. So, I was like “I really want to
buy one.” I’m like “It’s on my heart. I want to do this.” So, I donated the mixer a while ago. And
then I’m like, “Gosh. Okay, it’s January. I need to start figuring out when I’m going to get in and
bake cookies with the kids because I really want to do it.” And so, we set up a date. It was right
after the darn (Highway) 78 flooding happened.
SV: Oh, yeah.
RJ: And CalTrans (California Department of Transportation). And it was that day. It was that
day at 4 o’clock. I was supposed to go over there and bake cookies with them. And then I had to
cancel because Caltrans had to have this emergency meeting. And I was like on Zoom, and I was
like “Oh, darn it.” I’m like “Oh, duty calls.” I’m like “Can we reschedule another day?” So, we
rescheduled another day. I get there and the kids are so excited to meet the mayor first of all.
And this is, by the way, intentionally in one of our lower income areas of the city. It’s over on
Autumn Drive. And they’re like “Do you think I could be a mayor?” And I just got to hang out
and talk to them and I’m like—and teach them how to make, you know, how to crack the eggs.
They were doing so good. And, you know, so there was about—I think there was like 12 or 14 of
them. I’m like “I want to go back and do that like so all the kids that go to that branch have that
moment of time with me.” Because I appreciated it as much as they did. And so, for me, the
moments like that or when I get to go and talk to, you know, kids that are at the Boys and Girls
Club service groups like Girls Scouts, Boys Scouts. All of the kids groups, honestly, those are
the best days that I always have. I mean, really, the kids are excited. I’m really excited to hear
what they have to say. But I also am getting a different—and back to, you know, my point of
going out and door knocking and meeting people and hearing what they have to say about the
city. I’m hearing it from kids and they’re going to be 100% honest.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: They’re not going to sugarcoat it.
SV: (laughs) That’s true.
RJ: They’re not going to try to fluff me up. They’re not going to try to get something out of me.
They are going to tell me exactly what they think about their community.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And you know what? I appreciate that. So, for me, it’s always about the moments with the
kids when I get to go out and do things like that. It actually fills me so much more than any other
moments because, again you know, you do have to put a lot into it. You know, when you’re out
there on—and when I say “on” (air quotes with her fingers) you know, you’re talking to people.
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And I don’t want people to feel like they can’t approach me. So, I’m very approachable. And that
is one of the things that I really do pride myself on. I don’t want anyone to feel like I ever don’t
approach—you know, they can’t approach me. And so, one of our community members sent me
this message recently and he said to me, “You know,” —his daughter was in the kids mentor, the
girls mentor group—and he said “You know,” he goes “it was so cute. My daughter, we were
talking about something.” And she’s also a Girl Scout. And he said “Yeah. She says ‘Well, I
know the mayor.’” (both laugh) And he’s like “and she was saying this, you know, to my wife
and, you know, to—we had friends over and she goes ‘yeah, I know the mayor.’” And he goes
“It was the coolest thing because she really felt like she connected with me.” And I’m like “She
did connect with me.” and I love that. I love that our kids in the community can feel like they
connected with me because I feel like they will never probably forget that. And I oftentimes
when I’m places—I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. I was getting some food to go from
San Marcos Market. There was a mom and the daughter and I were just kind of talking. And I
went out to my car, and I got her one of our city pens and then I said to her, and I say this very
often—so, you know, our city emblem is a wayfinding sign, a compass—and I said to her, I said,
“Do you know what this is?” I took it back to her. I said, “Do you know what this is?” And she
goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, you’ll probably see it on all of our San Marcos signs. It’s a
wayfinding sign, so it’s a compass.” And I said, “What it stands for is to discover life’s
possibilities. And it’s going to be different for you than it is for me and for your little friends.
Every single one of you has something that is your path to success.” And it’s not all—
Everyone’s not going to go to a four-year college. I actually didn’t go to a four-year college. But
everyone’s going to have a path to success. And I want everyone to know that they’ve got
something inside of them that is what their path is and, you know, it might not be traditional. It
might be traditional, but it might not. And I want everyone to know that there is their best self.
There is a place that is a best self for every single person. And, again, it’s going to be very
different for everyone. And, you know, my kids, my daughter just graduated from USD. My son
went to Palomar. Totally different kids. Totally different people. But it doesn’t mean that one is
going to be more successful than the other. And I want people to know that and believe that in
themselves. I didn’t have parents that, you know, tried to make me feel like I could be successful
in whatever I did. I honestly believe that my parents just wanted me to get married and have
babies. And that was all they really hoped for me. And here I am. I’m the mayor of one of the
best cities in the county. And I am so grateful for every moment that I get to spend in the
community and encouraging people and spending my time letting them know that we believe in
them. We care about them. That’s what my job is in a nutshell. And I know it is kind of back to a
different point of what we were talking about. But the truth is every moment that you’re
inspiring kids in the community is a win for me.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: So, those days are the best. And, you know, really I try to—I always carry my pens in the
car. I’m like “Wait! Just wait!” I try to throw them, honestly, in my purse sometimes or in my
pocket or whatever. I don’t always remember. But I think those moments when you just say that
one thing, that could change the trajectory of someone’s life. And I know I remember my fourthgrade teacher, Mrs. Long. Here I am, you know, 56 years old almost. And I remember fourth
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grade, what she said to me. She said, “You can do bigger things than you think you can.” And I
just know that that’s why I am the right person, right now, to do what I’m doing.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And I’m so grateful for it. And I really have a hard time believing that I actually am doing
this, but I love it. Most days I absolutely love it,
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And there are times when you’re tired and you go “I don’t want to get up today.” But then,
you know, you have those days where you really just go “Okay. This is going to fill me in. Now,
I can get through another week or whatever.”
SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I think that’s a great sentiment to end our interview on. I did
want to ask you just one more question and that is if there’s anything that I should have asked
you that I did not.
RJ: No, because honestly, you know how I—I think you realize what my style is. (both laugh) if
you don’t bring it up and I want to say it, I’ll just bring it in there. So, no, I don’t think so.
SV: Okay.
RJ: Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s funny. At KUSI, they’re like “Oh, well, we’ll just ask you one
question. You just know what to do.” (both laugh) “You know what, you can just get everything
you want to say in.” I’m like “Oh, okay. Thanks!” And, you know, by the way, when I was first
elected as mayor, I was like “I can’t go on TV! I’m scared to death! I’m going to be sweating.
I’m going to be stressed. I’m going to say wrong things.” Like now, I’m like, I laugh about it.
You know, what I said. I’m like “Aw, geez. Two thousand twenty-five. What am I saying?”
(raises her hands and chuckles) You know, but I used to be really hard on myself. But you know
what? I don’t think people really want perfection. They want truth and honesty and authentic.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And, you know, I try to be those things. I try to be, you know—I don’t even honestly think
about it. I just try not to be guarded when I am—And, you know, if I show up to something, I
don’t want to be the person that is like “Cheese!” (motions as if smiling widely for a camera)
take a picture and then leave. Like, I’m there to do whatever you need me to do. Like if I need to
take out trash, get icky stuff on my hands, I’m going to do it. Like, I want to be fully engaged
when I show up to things. And I don’t think every politician is like that. I honestly wish there
were more people, not exactly my style, but really having the reason as the reason, as the real
reason, you know what I mean? Not like “Oh, I’m looking for my next thing, my next higher
office.” (makes air quotes with hands) You know, I am planning on running for county
supervisor next. But if I’m not elected, I’m totally fine. I’ve done good. I really do believe that. I
really do believe I’ve done good.
SV: Yeah. When are you running for county supervisor?
RJ: In 2026, when this term is over.
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SV: Okay.
RJ: So, not to worry. I’m not going to skip like in the middle of my term. So, Jim Desmond will
be termed out and I’m running for that seat. And, you know, it’s a bigger job but, you know, the
good thing is I will get paid for the hours that I work.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then I have staff. So, I think I can work on the same level, you know, put in the same
amount but have more fruit because I have people working for me and I’m actually getting paid
for it. So—
SV: Yeah.
RJ: You know, because we make less than $12,000 a year. I don’t know if you know that.
SV: I didn’t know.
RJ: Yeah. Yeah. I’m the best value in the county. (both laugh) Everyone’s like—Well, actually a
bunch of my friends are like “You’re the hardest working mayor in the whole county!” And I go
“Well, you know, yeah.” But, again, I’m not one of those people that shows up and like takes a
picture and leaves. That’s just not my thing.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I don’t do that. Anyway. Anything else?
SV: No. Thank you so much for your time.
RJ: Do you feel like you know me now?
SV: I do!
RJ: Okay, good.
SV: I appreciate you spending some time—
RJ: Yeah.
SV: —talking with us today. And I think this is going to be really valuable to our students and
researchers in the future. So, thank you.
RJ: Well, again, you know our city has come such a long way. And we really do have a lot to be
proud of. And I really do believe that people that live here and I hear it time and time again,
showing up at their house and they’re like “I love it here.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: “I love this city. I really wouldn’t live anywhere else.” And, you know, even when they’re
upset about things, they still don’t want to leave. They still are very happy. They’re like “But,
it’s better than—” You know, blah, blah, blah. Or where else. So, I think, you know, we’ve built
a great place. My first house was over behind Fire Station No. 2. (points in front and to the left
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with her left hand) And now I live over off of La Moree. (points behind her right shoulder with
her right hand) So, I’ve had three houses over here. So, I’ve owned four houses in the city.
SV: Nice.
RJ: I’m definitely not leaving.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I love it here.
SV: Well, thank you, again. I appreciate everything.
RJ: Of course, yeah.
Transcribed by Melissa Martin
35
2023-12
�
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Jones, Rebecca. Interview transcript, April 12. 2023.
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Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos.
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Rebecca Jones
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Melissa Martin
Sean Visintainer
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2023-04-12
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COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy
Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
San Diego Association of Governments
Women in politics
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San Diego County (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University University Library
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en</a>
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Rebecca Jones
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Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives@csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found.
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text
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JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12_transcript
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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Oral History
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Diania Caudell
Interviewee
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Linda Kallas
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=KallasLinda_CaudellDiania_2022-12-22_access.xml
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5.4 Kallas, Linda. Interview December 22, 2022 SC027-051 00:39:59 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Arts education Basket making California State University San Marcos Death and rememberance Education -- Native Americans Illustration of books Luiseno Indians Pablo Tac Elementary School (Oceanside, Calif.) Oceanside (Calif.) Valley Arts Festival (Oceanside, Calif.) Women artists Linda Kallas Diania Caudell KallasLinda_CaudellDiania_2022-12-22_access.mp4 1.0:|18(15)|33(5)|44(15)|58(8)|78(2)|94(7)|108(18)|122(13)|148(14)|161(11)|179(11)|193(6)|209(8)|222(8)|233(11)|256(15)|271(4)|291(3)|303(3)|316(18)|326(3)|338(8)|365(4)|394(4)|412(6)|422(6)|433(7)|460(4)|472(3)|483(6)|499(7)|509(9)|525(4)|536(6)|552(16)|562(8)|575(7)|588(11)|600(7)|618(7) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/b51d19e031c6564af02b12943939dc32.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Hellos are exchanged and introductions are said. Diania Caudell ; North County Oral History Initiative ; Linda Kallas 0 47 Early childhood Kallas describes her early childhood in New Jersey, followed by her moving to California. Kallas discusses an automobile accident she was involved in while she was young, as well as brief family introductions to her siblings, stay-at-home mother, and father's alcoholism. California ; Newark, New Jersey ; Automobile accident ; Alcoholism ; Drummer ; Hughes Aircraft 0 158 Elementary education Kallas describes early childhood education where she moved around to seven different elementary schools. Kallas recalls her love of the library and her passion for learning as well as swimming. Kallas also recollects her father's artistic side, and discovering her own love of art through her father. Library ; Youth ; Elementary school ; The Secret Garden ; Darby Dolls ; Art 0 231 Childhood activities Kallas describes her youth in the things she was drawn to, such as swimming, drawing riding bikes. Swimming ; Pool ; Parade ; Bikes ; Draw ; Art ; Paint 0 302 Post high school Kallas describes her life right after high school, with her marriage to her high school sweethart, moving away from her home to Crestline. Kallas also discusses breaking up with future husband, discovering her independence, and then getting back together and starting a family.
 ; Marriage ; Graduation ; Snow ; Medical Assistant ; Family ; Sons ; Crestline, California 0 406 Undergraduate and postgraduate education Kallas decides to go back to school, where she received an Associates of Arts degree in Early Childhood Education. She went on to attain two BAs from California State San Marcos, and continued for her master's and became a teacher for almost eighteen years at Jefferson Middle School. AA ; Casa De Emparo ; Teaching ; Master's Degree ; Middle School ; Art ; Drama ; El Camino College ; CSU San Marcos ; National University 0 549 Volunteering at the Oceanside Public Library Kallas describes her time Volunteering at the Oceanside Public Library and the Mission Branch Library. Through these, Kallas helped create the Art for Older Adult program. Kallas has also illustrated a children's book, "Mel and the Blue Arrow," written by Cathleen Chilcote Wallace, a Luiseño storyteller, writer, and elementary school teacher, and a coloring book written by Diania Caudell. Volunteering ; Coloring ; Book ; Oceanside Public Library ; Literacy Center ; Art for older adult Program ; Mission Branch Library ; Mel and the Blue Arrow ; Luiseño Indians 0 670 Living in Oceanside circa 1989 Kallas describes what life was like in Oceanside 1989 ; its rural nature, ease of getting around, and agriculture. The construction of the 76 Freeway prompted a move to a senior community. Kallas discusses the places she likes to visit in Oceanside. Oceanside 1989 ; Farmland ; Pumpkins ; 76 Freeway 0 759 The death of Kallas's son, Jake, and coming to terms with his passing Kallas discusses son Jake who was killed in a car accident in 2010, and while trying to deal with that traumatic experience, found the San Luis Rey Bakery and the flute circle there, where Kallas and her husband joined a new community. Death ; Ivy Ranch ; Hohomi Park ; San Luis Rey Bakery ; Flute Circle ; Commemorative bench ; Luiseño Indians 0 970 Joanne Tawfilis and her murals Kallas talks about muralist Joanne Tawfilis and her work, as well as the Muramid Museum and Arts Center, a UNESCO Peace Center. Muralist ; UNESCO Peace Center ; Joanne Tawfilis ; Uvalde massacre 0 1073 The Literacy Center Kallas describes her with the Oceanside Public Library's Literacy Center, helping developmentally disabled adults. Adult Education ; Literacy Center ; Art ; Language Artist ; Oceanside Public Library 0 1188 Retirement Kallas describes her passions after retirement, such as drawing and opening her own business, Floating Hearts Connections. She also talks about swimming, and meeting with friends. Also the conversation occurs between Linda and Diania of placing Linda's art in the Oceanside Art Walk. Drawing ; Swimming ; Business ; Floating Arts Collections 0 1409 Mentors Caudell asks Kallas about a mentor/role model in Kallas's life. Kallas speaks about her father and his passion for painting, and speaks about how her mother pushed her to become a professor. Kallas also speaks about a couple professors Linda had in college Deborah Small, and Yareli Arizmendi. Kallas also mentions her recent friends that she has made, like Mel, Diania Caudell, and family members. Mentors ; Family ; Professors ; Role Models ; Deborah Small ; Yareli Arizmendi ; Diania Caudell ; Joanne Tawfilis 0 1620 Friendships, basket making, Valley Arts Festival Kallas speaks about her friendship with Mel Vernon (Luiseño), she mentions how close they are and the impact he has had on her life. Also mentions specific moments in their friendship through art. She also speaks to her passion for basket making and how she struggles but enjoys it. Kallas also speaks to the Valley Arts Festival, which just held its second festival. Friendship ; Bond ; Music ; Artword ; Art ; Basket Making ; Valley Arts Festival 0 1976 Proud accomplishments Kallas recalls winning teacher of the year, which she describes as one of her greatest accomplishments. She also mentions how her artwork is something that she is proud of. To this she talks about her long-term goals in in creating a website to market her curriculum, honoring the native California peoples, and writing books, including a new book in honor of her sister. Teacher of the Year ; Books ; Writing 0 2161 Regrets in life Kallas, asked about her regrets in life, brings up her mistakes and how the mistakes are what make you who you are. She also talks about how positive outlets impacted her life, such as yoga and meditation.
 ; 
 ; Regrets ; Mistakes ; Experiences ; Yoga ; Meditation 0 2310 Final thoughts/final message Kallas has a final message to the viewer of the video, as well as a final heartfelt note about her passed son. Goals ; Interests ; Love 0 moving image Oral history interview of Linda Kallas, December 22, 2022. Interview conducted by Diania L. Caudell. Linda Kallas is a retired middles school art and drama teacher who has collaborated with other local artists and authors on a variety of endeavors, including illustrating "Mel and the Blue Arrow" written by Mel Vernon (Luiseño). Kallas and Vernon also collaborated on a Luiseño/English coloring book and on an arts integrated curriculum taught at Pablo Tac Elementary School in Oceanside. Kallas is also on the committee for the Valley Arts Festival that celebrates Luiseño culture each November at Heritage Park, Oceanside. In her interview, Kallas talks to Diania Caudell about topics such as family, school, higher education, post-college life, and her various art and cultural projects. Diania Caudell: Good morning. My name is Diania Caudell and I’m, today I’m interviewing Linda Kallas. And today’s date is December 22, 2022. I’m with the North County Oral History Initiative. And it’s a class that we’re both been taking. And so, this is my 2nd interview. And wish us luck here! Are you ready, Linda? Here we go! Linda Kallas: I’m ready! DC: Okay. We’re going to be starting really simple and everything on that. That’s what they told us to keep it going so to make sure that you’re going to be really at ease. And you can smile when you want to, or whatever. So, let me know. LK: Yeah. DC: Uh, just when and where were you born? LK: I was born in Norton, New Jersey in 1953. And we lived there ‘til I was three and then we moved to California. After I was hit by a car —I have the dent to prove it right here— (rubs the pointer finger of her left hand on a portion of her forehead) I was in traction for several weeks in the hospital. And then my father had an opportunity to be in California for a new job. So, we moved out here. My left leg was three inches shorter. I remember the limp. (paddles her hands in front of her) I don’t remember the accident. I remember the hospital. But the limp—The leg grew and caught up with the other leg. So— DC: You want to tell me a little bit more about your family? LK: Um, my dad was a drummer by profession. And then after he had three of us, three children, and we moved to California, then my sister was born. And having four kids—and my mother was only in her early twenties—they got married really young. He finally got a real job, working as a plumber for a big—I think it was Hughes Aircraft. And then it was—we had a lot of turmoil because of his affliction. He was an alcoholic. And mom was a stay-at-home mom. And then I had two—she had two more boys. So, there were six kids in the family. And then they stayed married ‘til I think I was seventeen. And then they divorced. And that was chaos too. But anyway. DC: Anyway. Okay. Would you like to speak of what school was like for you as a child? LK: Well, we moved a lot. So, I went to like seven different elementary schools. We moved all the time. And I have fond memories of elementary. That’s kind of my safe place to go to, remembering good things. Like I had a teacher in third grade that read us The Secret Garden and that sparked my love of reading. She would read to us every afternoon. And I just loved hearing that story out loud, and then the library at the schools. The library was a safe zone for me. School was my safe zone. And I think that’s why I furthered my education because it was something that made me feel good. Learning, I loved learning. So, but, so there wasn’t really anything negative at school for me, other than high school and the cliques and the—you know how that is. (Diania chuckles) I stayed away from cliques. I was friends with everyone. I never fit in to one little group. I just always was friends with everyone. So— DC: On the activities when you were a child, I mean, what were you drawn to mostly, other than the reading and the library wizard? LK: Swimming, because we finally moved into a house with a pool. And I swam every day. That was my—I just loved— to this day, I love to swim. Mom always tried to get me to be like a cheerleader. She forced me to do—it was called “Darby Dolls” (makes air quotes with her hands). They were just pom-pom girls. (motions as if waving pom-poms) And I was in a parade and I remember just being miserable. Just, that just was not me. Because I was a tomboy. I wanted to do what the boys did, ride bikes. I wanted to have a paper route. Girls were not allowed then to have paper routes. So, swimming was really one of the things I loved to do. And I drew. I always loved to draw. My father also was a visual artist. And I remember watching him paint murals on the wall. And it just seemed magical to me that he could tace this blank space and all of a sudden there’s a bush there or a tree there. So, I think I learned my love of art through him. And that was part of his recovery when he would sober up. That’s what he would do. He would paint. DC: Now, one of the things though, from high school, you went on to college? What— LK: No. DC: No? LK: No. Not right out of high school. (shakes her head) DC: Okay. LK: No. I married my high school sweetheart. (Diania chuckles) Not married right away. We got together in ’71 —’70 was our first date. And then I graduated in ’71. And then we moved in together and we lived in Crestline, the mountains, for almost a year. But we were so dumb. (Diania laughs) We’re southern California brats, right? We didn’t know anything about living in the snow. So, I remember when we got our first electric bill and gas bill. And I went “You have to pay for that???” I thought it just came with the house. (Diania chuckles) So, um, that was quite the experience. And then we broke up for a year and I lived on my own, which was a really important turning point. I became a medical assistant, and I learned that I could take care of myself. I didn’t need to have another person to take care of me. And then we got back together. And then we decided to get married five years later and start a family. So, we have two sons. And that was it! Two boys. That was enough. (both laugh) DC: So, when did you decide to actually go back to school? LK: Not ‘til after the birth of my first son. You know, a lot of things came natural to me, coming from a big family and being the oldest girl. I had to tace care of the younger siblings most of the time. So, the baby stage, and nursing them, and all that stuff came really natural. But when they became—when Josh became a toddler, I was like “Now what do you do with them?” You know, I’d play with them, and I wanted to learn more about child development. That’s what sparked me to go back to school. So, I got an AA in Early Childhood Education. And then I changed fields and worked in that field for years, through my second son too. And then, even when we moved here from L.A., I was a director of a crisis day care center, Casa de Emparo. So, that AA degree served me really well. I was able to make a living doing it. But then, there’s only—you couldn’t go any further than being a director unless I wanted to become a teacher of it. So, then I started helping out at the elementary schools with my boys. And I really loved that. And so, that’s what sparked me further and to get a teaching credential and then wind up teaching for almost twenty years and got a master’s degree in education, so— And I taught Art and Drama at the middle school level. And that was really, really fun. DC: So, did you go to a local college when you were down here? LK: I went to—I got my AA in L.A. at El Camino College. And then when we moved here, I’d gotten my BA—well, I have two BAs at Cal State San Marcos. And the master’s degree—I call it my drive-through. I shouldn’t say this. My drive-through master’s is through National University. DC: So, you were alone out here, right from Cal State San Marcos? LK: Yep. Mm-hmm. I am. DC: Yeah. Good for you. Okay. So, you’re one of the originals that were here on the campus. LK: Yes. DC: It was pretty small. Was it small? LK: Before the campus, they were in the Jerome's Shopping Center. That’s where I took my first classes. And I got the teaching credential through Cal State San Marcos as well. It took me a really, really long time because I did everything part-time. I still worked, had the kids, and then did schooling part-time. So, I was 44 before I ever stepped foot in my own classroom. DC: And then after that, you did it for how many years? LK: Almost 18. I was at Jefferson Middle School for almost 18 years. DC: And Jefferson is located where? LK: It’s Oceanside Unified School District. It’s in the older part of Oceanside . DC: And so, up to today you’re still with education in some forms. LK: Yes. I started volunteering at the library, the Oceanside Public Library at the Literacy Center. And I really loved doing that. And then I went to the Mission branch library and got with Jenna Lease. And we created the Art for Older Adult program. And that’s at the senior center in El Corazon. And next year, we’ll be at both senior centers. I also write curriculum which, Mel (Vernon), my interviewee’s brother (Diania chuckles), he wrote a book called Mel and the Blue Arrow and asked me to illustrate it. So, I did. And so, we’ve been selling that. And then we approached Pablo Tac Elementary School. They recently changed the name to that. And he—I proposed this curriculum based on Mel and the Blue Arrow. And then, with Diania, I put together a coloring book. Diania helped me with the translation. It’s in Luiseño and English. And that’s been very successful. So, the students will get Mel and the Blue Arrow and the coloring book. So, we start teaching there in February. DC: Twenty? LK: 2023. DC: 2023. Okay, when—for me, you know, and in it, being able to interview you, I mean it’s an honor to be with you and learn from you. But some of the questions on here, you know, you’ve been in this region here in Southern California, not just L.A., but down here in San Diego County for how long? LK: Since 1989. DC: So, 1989. So, you’ve seen changes that have affected where you’re living at or in the area. Are any of them for you positive, that you’ve enjoyed watching the change? Or is it some things that are coming through that are—feel like the region is getting too crowded? Or how do you feel about it? LK: It’s so different than when we moved down. Part of the attraction to this, to Oceanside was we lived in a condominium that overlooked the Mission. But that was all fields and there was farmland. And you would walk across the street and buy fresh pumpkins. There was a farm stand. We could walk to the river and float on the river. We can’t do any of that anymore. There’s buildings, buildings. The 76, we moved here before the 76 was completed. And they kept saying “Oh, they’ll never build it. It’s been on the books for years.” Well, they built it. And it was literally—you could throw a stone from our condo. The noise level was unbearable. That’s what prompted us to move to, now we live in a senior community, which is very quiet (Diania laughs) which we really like. And the streets are really wide. (both laugh) The neighbors are really nice. And so, we kind of found our niche there. DC: So, do you have favorite places in the community there in Oceanside or around the surrounding areas? LK: Well, my husband’s a surfer so we love the beach. We go to the harbor quite often to visit the bench of our youngest son. Did you want me to talk about that? DC: It’s up to you. LK: Our youngest son, twelve years ago, was killed in a car accident. And so, we placed a bench at the harbor, right across from the boat launch, in his memory. So, we go there quite often and sit on the bench and talk to Jake. I love a lot of the area there. I love Heritage Park. I love Ivy Ranch Parks. We love parks. Hohomi Park. All the parks we frequent quite often. I enjoy going to the Mission just because of the grounds more than anything. I feel like I’m walking in history when I go there. Having learned what I’ve learned about the Luiseños, it’s a way of honoring the memory of the Luiseños there on that land. It’s sacred land but not sacred because the mission is there. It’s sacred land because there was a village there. And I’ve learned a lot and learned to appreciate history in that way. DC: Well, one of the things that I think I’ve heard you talk about that’s unique is—okay, talk about when you go to the bakery, San Luis Rey Bakery. What was happening there when you first was going through there. LK: Oh. The bakery. (Diania laughs) After Jake died in 2010, the anguish was unbelievable. I’ve never experienced anything like that before or since. And I’ve been through a lot being raised the way I was raised. But that was just—that was like a part of my soul was taken and my identity. All of a sudden, I was searching online all the time for things to get my head on, out of the place it was in, and all of a sudden, this announcement popped up of a flute circle at the San Luis Rey Bakery. And I went (opens her mouth wide as if in awe) “Jim, we’re going to go to that.” (Diania chuckles) So, we went. It was about, not maybe a year later, I think. And Mel is the one that started that. And so, we started going faithfully every month. And little by little just the healing of that sound and the camaraderie of the people, and the friend—They were so friendly. Everybody was just so warm and friendly, and we just kind of felt like we fit there. And so, we went until— It wasn’t Covid hit, really. But through that, I became friends with Mel. That’s where we started talking about the book. And I became friends with Diania and other people, Marge and Rob, and the people that frequent the flute circle. And it just was—had a really, really positive influence on me. DC: Did you try to play the flute? LK: I have a flute and I do have one little tune I keep working on. DC: You should have brought it! (Linda laughs) We could have played it. Now, I’m going to get you to play the flute. LK: It’s not for public consumption. (both laugh) I probably wouldn’t be able to hit one note. (motions with her hands as if pressing on a flute) DC: Yeah. With the, you know, living there in the valley and seeing the different changes. You know, like you just talked about, and the flute circle is not there anymore. It’s not that they don’t want it. It’s just that the capacity and the people have gone on to other things. LK: Mm-hmm. (nods her head) DC: There is a unique area right next door also that you’re involved in. You want to talk about that a little bit? LK: Are you talking about the Muramid Museum? DC: Yes. Yes. LK: With Joanne Tawfilis? Um, yes. Joanne is a muralist. And she does murals for any occasion. But she usually honors, I guess, tragic events. So, if some kind of tragedy happens, she paints a mural. And then, she sends it to that place. The most recent was Uvalde in Texas when that crazy person shot all those children. But I help her with murals. She does other unique things as well. But murals seem to be her niche in life. And she’s also in the UNESCO Peace Center there. And one of these days we’ll have a grand opening, when the landlord signs off on it (motions as if signing something with her right hand) And she does different events there, like her partner is a drummer, so they do African drumming every Saturday. And she’ll have events there to honor things that are going on, like she just did her birthday event. That was quite unique. DC: I know that other things that you work with the community, you know, not just like the Muramid, but I’d like you to stress your art, involvement really with the art. It’s unique, you know, I think. So, you’ve shared other things that I wasn’t aware of, you know. And I think that’s unique for us to learn. But can you specify what you do there at the centers there in Oceanside with the— LK: Are you thinking of Studio Ace? DC: No, no. The one down in Oceanside by the library? What’s that center? LK: Oh, the Literacy Center. DC: Yes! Yes. LK: The Literacy Center, I work with developmentally disabled adults. We started a Read-and-Draw Program. So, I did a whole year of character education with them. So, I would bring in posters where they were learning art literacy, visual literacy as well. But each poster had to do with a character trait, for example, like compassion, or caring, or integrity. So, they got a different character trait that they learned. And then we would involve poetry. So, we would write poems. They would do a little drawing lesson and learn to talk about art. And they learned a lot. And so, we’re going to continue that next year. We’re changing the name to, which I really like, “Language Artist.” So, they’ll get—and it’s going to be based on the LeBrons art. He’s an abstract expressionist artist. And so, we’ll look at his art and then I’ll teach them a lesson. And then, they’ll write something. So, it’s all about literacy. And then, also, I’ve been involved with Studio Ace since its inception. I’ve been Julia’s advisor, consultant, whatever you want to call it. I set up programs for her at Laurel Elementary. And before Pablo Tac was Pablo Tac, it was San Luis Rey Elementary. So, two schools I wrote curriculum for, trained two teachers and then they took over. But, after that, I just would kind of consult with her, and we created some classes together for the library. And then I transferred from working with her to working with the library directly. DC: So, there’s going to be some changes in your life soon. But how has your life’s path evolved and changed over the years? LK: I think since I’ve retired, when you teach art or drama for that matter, the last thing you want to do when you go home is more of it because you’re so involved with it all day, seven and a half hours a day. So, that part of my life has really increased as far as my drawing, and doing art on my own, just for myself. But now, I want to tace that venture a little further and I’m going to—well, I’ve opened my own business. And so, I’m still going to be offering all the same things I offer right now—workshops, art lessons, curriculum, whatever people need, healing arts. I have a whole repertoire of stuff that I can offer. But it will be under the title of “Floating Hearts Connections.” And even that has meaning to it. Floating hearts is actually an aquatic plant, and the leaves are shaped like a heart and then this little yellow flower comes up. And it has five petals. And that has meaning to me because I told you before, I love to swim. Well, when I’m done swimming, my favorite thing to do is to float. And so, with that in mind, I was looking for names and talked with my husband, talked with you, talked with Mel. And they said—all of you said I have to include something heart felt because that’s what I do. I collaborate with people and provide healing through the arts. And so, when I found that, I went “Oh my gosh! Heart, floating, arts” and then the connections that I make. And floating is an acronym also for the love of hearts in teaching. So, it all just kind of fits it. And so, I have a little logo that I’m working on, and I have the business license. And I’ve got the insurance. I’m a vendor with the city of Oceanside now. So, eventually I’ll do a website and have like business cards. I’ll be all official. (Diania chuckles) So, I can go anywhere and do it. I don’t have to just stay in Oceanside. DC: Are you going to, at some point, be part of that art—is it the art walk, or whatever it is there in Oceanside with a booth or anything showing— LK: Oh. (sighs) DC: —what you’re going to be doing? LK: I hadn’t thought about doing that. DC: Yeah. LK: Maybe. I don’t know. It’s on my favorite— DC: Floating hearts. I can see it already, you know. I picture it, you know, on your canopy and the whole thing. LK: Well, Diania, to tell you the truth, I hadn’t considered it. (Diania laughs) But I do reach out to the organizations. Like I did a mural for Ivy Ranch Horse Park. And that was successful. And then Preserve Calavera, I did one. So, I do reach out to other organizations. But I hadn’t thought about doing it monthly at Art Walk. But I will consider it. DC: And once you get your logo going. LK: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the stuff I do is volunteer. DC: Oh, yes. Yes. LK: So, that I think you have to pay. I’m not sure. But I can find out. I may have to pay for a table to do that. But I don’t know. DC: (chuckles) We’ve got some more things in there. LK: (coughs) Excuse me. DC: Some of these questions that I’m reading for this class and things, you know, I can talk more, and it depends on how personal you want to, you know, get into there. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: Like is there any mentors that you had through your life that have gotten you, you know, from one stage to another? You know, you can go back on— I look at it, you can go back on your life and, you know, from your childhood and, you know, the turmoil at one point. And you must have had some type of mentor. You did mention a teacher, you know, at that point. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: And then, almost everyone had some type in their stage that they don’t realize. There’s that mentor or that one person that it made a difference, either by saying something or doing something. Is there any mentor that you feel has helped you throughout your life? LK: That encouraged— DC: That encouraged you, that have gotten you to where you’re at today, and you want to speak about them or just mention them, you know, there, and how they helped you at each different phase in your life. LK: Well, dad was probably my first inspiration. Like I said, it was magical to watch him paint. Mom discouraged it. She didn’t—I guess she was worried that I was going to tace a path of no return or something. But she always wanted me to become a professional person. And it was interesting. We had a conversation on the phone one time. She said, “I always thought you’d be this professional businesswoman.” And I started laughing. And she’s all, “What’s so funny?” I said, “I am a professional, mom. I’m a teacher.” She goes, “Oh, not that kind of profession.” Like it was—she kind of thought of it as babysitting, I guess, in her own mind. She never looked at teaching as a profession. So, I think that got my dander up even more as far as “Well, I’ll show you.” But then, in college, I had many professors. Deborah Small was one of them, Yareli Arizmendi, many professors that saw talent and encouraged it in me, gave me more confidence, especially with theater. Yareli is a professional actress, and she was the professor there at Cal State San Marcos for a while. Her classes were fantastic, and I had a starring role in one of the plays we performed around the city. But Deborah Small, she kind of ventured off into computer art, which I found was not my niche. I preferred drawing. I’m a drawer. I don’t consider myself a painter. I draw everything. I can paint, and I can use color. But there’s something about a pencil and paper I love. So, there were colleagues , principals that I worked with that saw in me things that I didn’t know I had. But, most recently, it’s been people like you, Diania, and Mel in particular, Joanne, my husband, my son. My grandkids, Ty and Katie, are very important influencers in my life. And they’re like my biggest fans, so a lot of family. But a lot of—I think the friends I have now are the closest friends that, compared to past friends when I was younger, it’s different making friends at this age. It’s a much deeper level or something. It’s not superficial at all. So, I thank all of you for that. But I think the one who has pushed me the hardest has been your brother. DC: (laughs. Linda nods her head.) Well, he’s, to me—I’m just going to let you know—this was the interview going back and forth, and we’re talking here—is that he sees something in you, and he connect. And I think it’s the—you both are talented artists. He’s in the music field. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: And you show at your artwork, you know. You can express it through art. He expresses himself through music. LK: Yes. DC: And I think the two of you make a good compare because you bounce off each other, like brother and sister. It’s, you know, on that. LK: Mm-hmm. DC: It’s not like, you know, husband and wife. It’s more like a brother and sister type of thing. LK: Yeah. Yeah. DC: And you’re, you know—it’s good. And you can speak freely to each other, and it’s good. I think I’ve seen the growth in both of you on that. There’s other things that you have joined us with, you know, but you don’t mention it. You want to say another type of artwork that you try to get into (laughs). LK: Yeah, absolutely. But that’s only through you trusting me and seeing something in me that I didn’t know there either. Like basketry has been phenomenal. I just—I love it! And I love the process. I love watching the people do it. I enjoy helping you, and just the joy it brings people to put together a basket. You don’t think about that as being something people will be drawn to. But they are. And they’re just kind of one with their basket as they’re creating it, and the joy that is coming from them and the healing. Because like I tell my students, when you’re doing art, any kind of art, it’s just you and that piece. Whatever it is you’re working on, your mind is still going, and the problems are still there. But it takes a back seat because you are so focused on what you’re creating. And that’s where the healing begins, is—And basketry is like that. Something about going over, under, over, under (laughs) and getting it right, getting the tension right. It’s so important. It’s just really—The other thing that we’re involved in is the Valley Arts Festival which is—Julia started—well, she got a grant. And when she got the grant, she wanted to know what we should focus on. And her and I had talked about different cultures for many years. We wanted to do these things. And so, I mentioned the Luiseños because I’ve become close with you and Mel. And so, I introduced Mel to her and you to her, I think. And that’s where it went. We just started meeting and planning the Valley Arts Festival which is—We just did our second one, and it was a huge success. And so, hopefully, that’s going to continue every year whether she gets that grant or not. We need to continue it because we’re educating the community about just acknowledging the fact that the Luiseños were here ten or twelve thousand years before the encroachment of the white people. (both laugh) DC: It should be that way. But when are you going to go? I knew you’d say something about the basketry, you know. But that’s not the Luiseño. That’s not our traditional. That’s more the Cherokee style. What do you feel about learning when you have to sit down and you’re weaving with us, with traditional? LK: That is a challenge because the materials are so—You’re very precise about what materials are used for what part. And it took me a long time to learn even the names, the juncus, the—wait a minute. I’ll get it in a minute. DC: (whispers something) Yucca. LK: Yucca! (both laugh) That is the one I always forget! Always. But what you use for what part of the basket. And the starting is difficult, but I find the weaving, getting it precise and even and even the width of it. Like I have to take it out because the one I started is—I went too thick too soon. But the beauty of it and using the natural materials, there’s something about manipulating that natural material. But what I focus on when I’m working with you, I think this is what they did. They had time to do this, like and it was important because they used—They were functional art. They used the baskets for everyday things. And our culture, we just go and buy what we need. We didn’t have to worry about sitting and making something that could hold berries or hold whatever it was you were going to gather. It’s fascinating to me to be able to learn to do that. Because you can buy a kit and do a little basket online, you know, buy a kit online and do a basket. But to do it from the natural materials—Because you have permission to go and gather that material, the real thing, authentic. I guess that’s what it is. It’s the authenticity of it. That’s what’s so wonderful about it. DC: On some of the bigger picture here, what do you think some of your greatest accomplishments are, you know, up to this point in your life? What do you feel? LK: Uh, it’s hard. You know me, Diania. I’m not (unintelligible word). DC: I doubt, I mean, you know—when you think about your greatest accomplishments, you lost one. LK: Well, my two sons, absolutely. My two grandchildren. I have two step grandsons now too . My son is remarried. I’m really proud of all of them. They’ve come so far. But in my working world, I think some of my greatest accomplishments were getting Teacher of the Year three times and being runner up for county Teacher of the Year. I came in second or something like that. That was very—I was really honored by that. And so, I’ve gotten a lot of awards for teaching. And so, I’m proud of that. What I’m learning to become proud of is my own artwork, believe it or not. I’m not one to brag or toot my own horn but I am progressing, and I am getting much more confident about creating my own art. DC: But do you have any plans still for your life, you know, in the future? I mean, you’ve gotten your business . Now you’re doing this. Do you see the plans, how it’s going to go into the future? I mean, how’s it going to broaden for you in helping you within in your, you know, I’d call it your second career, your third career. How do you feel about that in your life? LK: What are my hopes for that? What do I hope to achieve? DC: Mm-hmm. LK: Long range goal, I would love to create a website and be able to market things that I create like the curriculum. I would love to market the Mel and the Blue Arrow curriculum because I think it’s really good and solid. And I would love for teachers throughout the county to be able to use it, particularly in North County where the Luiseños—this is the traditional land—because that will further the education of the people that live here, of the people that were here prior to us. And learning how they lived and honoring them as a people instead of somebody that we just kind of pushed out of the way is what I feel like we did with the indigenous people. And then, possibly, I’m writing another book. It’s called The Adventure of Big Pig. It’s about a guinea pig and that’s in honor of my sister who is suffering from a fatal illness. And I hope to get that done before—And even if I have to self-publish that as well, I will, just so she can have that. And I’m really close with her. She lives in Colorado. So, this is a difficult time. But that’s in honor of her. So, things like that. I hope to further writing. I write an article a month for Indian Voices, thanks to your brother Mel. (Diania chuckles) And that’s been challenging but also uniquely fun. It’s fun on a different level. DC: What do you think—Not to wrap it up or anything but is there any regrets within your life or you could have changed something differently at any point, you know, in your life? I, you know, I don’t like asking that question, personally, because I don’t think people should have regrets. But some people can look at life differently, you know. And it’s hindsight, but you can’t change anything. But is there anything that you would probably feel that could have been better or you could have did something differently? LK: I don’t look at it as regrets. I look at the past mistakes that I made. I would have made—There are different things. I would have made different choices. But what I’ve learned, by the age of 69, is all of those mistakes and all of the experiences you go through is what brings you to where you are right now. And had you not gone through those trials and tribulations and the mistakes, you would be different. I would be different. So, I have a different philosophy about it now. I just think everything we go through in life is going to take us to a different place and change us in a way that we need to change. And I also have learned through yoga and meditation to be grateful for even the bad things because it’s an opportunity to learn and it’s an opportunity for growth. And that’s kind of how I view things, and I wake up feeling grateful and I go to sleep feeling grateful. And I think that’s a gift we give ourselves because when you’re grateful, you can go out in the world and share that gift with others. And so, I try to practice that daily. So, yes, mistakes, but we all make them. We’re only human. (Diania chuckles) What do you expect from us? (Both laugh) DC: Is there anything that you want to let the people know that, you know, when they do view this recording and you’re going to be put in an archive. And if a student comes by or another person comes by and wants to know who Linda Kallas was and what she had done, is there anything you want to share with that person or group in this interview right now. You did do a little bit now, but is there anything more you want to say to kind of wrap it up to where you feel why this was important to do? LK: Well, I think one thing would be never, never give up. Never quit on a dream or an aspiration. You’re never too old to try something new. Never. Unless you physically cannot do it, physically. But, you know, to always keep learning in any capacity you can. Pursue interests. Pursue what interests you because there’s so much out there to gain knowledge on. But never give up. Never quit. You can’t quit. I sure wanted to when my son died. But I didn’t and I’m glad I didn’t. And everything I do now is in honor of him and the love for him and the love we shared as mother/son because that does not die. The physical person goes away. But the love you share with another person never dies. DC: Well, thank you, Linda. I really enjoyed doing this and I enjoyed my friendship and everything. I hope it’s going to continue on. And so, we both have grown together and shared some things that I know you didn’t share with, you know. We’ve got De Loos. We’ve got different places I’ve taken you, regarding into the Indian world, or you want to say that on there. But I’m going to wrap it up and say “No $uun Looviq.” LK: No $uun Looviq. DC: No $uun Looviq. LK: Thank you so much, Diania. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs.
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Kallas, Linda. Interview December 22, 2022.
Description
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Oral history interview of Linda Kallas, December 22, 2022. Interview conducted by Diania L. Caudell. Linda Kallas is a retired middle school art and drama teacher who has collaborated with other local artists and authors on a variety of endeavors, including illustrating "Mel and the Blue Arrow" written by Mel Vernon (Luiseño). Kallas and Vernon also collaborated on a Luiseño/English coloring book and on an arts integrated curriculum taught at Pablo Tac Elementary School in Oceanside. Kallas is also on the committee for the Valley Arts Festival that celebrates Luiseño culture each November at Heritage Park, Oceanside. In her interview, Kallas talks to Diania Caudell about topics such as family, school, higher education, post-college life, and her various art and cultural projects.
Identifier
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SC027-051
Subject
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Arts education
Basket making
California State University San Marcos
Death and remembrance
Education -- Native Americans
Illustration of books
Luiseño Indians
Pablo Tac Elementary School (Oceanside, Calif.)
Valley Arts Festival (Oceanside, Calif.)
Women artists
Date
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2022-12-22
Format
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video
Creator
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Linda Kallas
Contributor
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Diania Caudell
Coverage
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Oceanside (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
Rights
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Linda Kallas
Art and artists
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/cdd8c927aef587b85a92b296a56ca6e7.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
LINDA KALLAS
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-12-22
DC: Good morning. My name is Diania Caudell and I’m, today, I’m interviewing Linda Kallas.
[Linda mouths her name quietly in repetition] And today’s date is December 22, 2022. I’m with
the North County Oral History Initiative. And it’s a class that we’re both been taking. And so,
this is my 2nd interview. And wish us luck here! [All three laugh.] Are you ready, Linda? Here
we go!
LK: I’m ready! [laughs and tosses her head back, then brushes her hair back]
DC: Okay. We’re going to be starting really simple and everything on that. That’s what they told
us to keep it going so to make sure that you’re going to be really at ease. And you can smile
when you want to, or whatever. So, let me know.
LK: Yeah.
DC: Uh, just when and where were you born?
LK: I was born in Norton, New Jersey in 1953. And we lived there ‘til I was three and then we
moved to California. After I was hit by a car—I have the dent to prove it right here— [rubs the
pointer finger of her left hand on a portion of her forehead] I was in traction for several weeks in
the hospital. And then my father had an opportunity to be in California for a new job. So, we
moved out here. My left leg was three inches shorter. I remember the limp. [paddles her hands in
front of her] I don’t remember the accident. I remember the hospital. But the limp—The leg grew
and caught up with the other leg. So—
DC: You want to tell me a little bit more about your family?
LK: Um, my dad was a drummer by profession. And then after he had three of us, three children,
and we moved to California, then my sister was born. And having four kids—and my mother
was only in her early twenties—they got married really young. He finally got a real job, working
as a plumber for a big—I think it was Hughes Aircraft. And then it was—we had a lot of turmoil
because of his affliction. He was an alcoholic. And mom was a stay-at-home mom. And then I
had two—she had two more boys. So, there were six kids in the family. And then they stayed
married ‘til I think I was seventeen. And then they divorced. And that was chaos too. But
anyway.
DC: Anyway. Okay. Would you like to speak of what school was like for you as a child?
LK: Well, we moved a lot. So, I went to like seven different elementary schools. We moved all
the time. And I have fond memories of elementary. That’s kind of my safe place to go to,
remembering good things. Like I had a teacher in third grade that read us The Secret Garden and
that sparked my love of reading. She would read to us every afternoon. And I just loved hearing
that story out loud, and then the library at the schools. The library was a safe zone for me. School
was my safe zone. And I think that’s why I furthered my education because it was something that
made me feel good. Learning, I loved learning. So, but, so there wasn’t really anything negative
at school for me, other than high school and the cliques and the—you know how that is. [Diania
chuckles] I stayed away from cliques. I was friends with everyone. I never fit in to one little
group. I just always was friends with everyone. So—
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Transcribed by Melissa Martin
�LINDA KALLAS
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-12-22
DC: On the activities when you were a child, I mean, what were you drawn to mostly, other than
the reading and the library wizard?
LK: Swimming, because we finally moved into a house with a pool. And I swam every day. That
was my—I just loved—to this day, I love to swim. Mom always tried to get me to be like a
cheerleader. She forced me to do—it was called “Darby Dolls” [makes air quotes with her
hands]. They were just pom-pom girls. [motions as if waving pom-poms] And I was in a parade
and I remember just being miserable. Just, that just was not me. Because I was a tomboy. I
wanted to do what the boys did, ride bikes. I wanted to have a paper route. Girls were not
allowed then to have paper routes. So, swimming was really one of the things I loved to do. And
I drew. I always loved to draw. My father also was a visual artist. And I remember watching him
paint murals on the wall. And it just seemed magical to me that he could tace this blank space
and all of a sudden there’s a bush there or a tree there. So, I think I learned my love of art
through him. And that was part of his recovery when he would sober up. That’s what he would
do. He would paint.
DC: Now, one of the things though, from high school, you went on to college? What—
LK: No.
DC: No?
LK: No. Not right out of high school. [shakes her head]
DC: Okay.
LK: No. I married my high school sweetheart. [Diania chuckles] Not married right away. We got
together in ’71 —’70 was our first date. And then I graduated in ’71. And then we moved in
together and we lived in Crestline, the mountains, for almost a year. But we were so dumb.
[Diania laughs] We’re southern California brats, right? We didn’t know anything about living in
the snow. So, I remember when we got our first electric bill and gas bill. And I went “You have
to pay for that???” I thought it just came with the house. [Diania chuckles] So, um, that was
quite the experience. And then we broke up for a year and I lived on my own, which was a really
important turning point. I became a medical assistant, and I learned that I could take care of
myself. I didn’t need to have another person to take care of me. And then we got back together.
And then we decided to get married five years later and start a family. So, we have two sons.
And that was it! Two boys. That was enough. [both laugh]
DC: So, when did you decide to actually go back to school?
LK: Not ‘til after the birth of my first son. You know, a lot of things came natural to me, coming
from a big family and being the oldest girl. I had to tace care of the younger siblings most of the
time. So, the baby stage, and nursing them, and all that stuff came really natural. But when they
became—when Josh became a toddler, I was like “Now what do you do with them?” You know,
I’d play with them, and I wanted to learn more about child development. That’s what sparked me
to go back to school. So, I got an AA in Early Childhood Education. And then I changed fields
and worked in that field for years, through my second son too. And then, even when we moved
here from L.A., I was a director of a crisis day care center, Casa de Emparo. So, that AA degree
2
Transcribed by Melissa Martin
�LINDA KALLAS
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-12-22
served me really well. I was able to make a living doing it. But then, there’s only—you couldn’t
go any further than being a director unless I wanted to become a teacher of it. So, then I started
helping out at the elementary schools with my boys. And I really loved that. And so, that’s what
sparked me further and to get a teaching credential and then wind up teaching for almost twenty
years and got a master’s degree in education, so— And I taught Art and Drama at the middle
school level. And that was really, really fun.
DC: So, did you go to a local college when you were down here?
LK: I went to—I got my AA in L.A. at El Camino College. And then when we moved here, I’d
gotten my BA—well, I have two BAs at Cal State San Marcos. And the master’s degree—I call
it my drive-through. I shouldn’t say this. My drive-through master’s is through National
University.
DC: So, you were alone out here, right from Cal State San Marcos?
LK: Yep. Mm-hmm. I am.
DC: Yeah. Good for you. Okay. So, you’re one of the originals that were here on the campus.
LK: Yes.
DC: It was pretty small. Was it small?
LK: Before the campus, they were in the Jerome Shopping Center. That’s where I took my first
classes. And I got the teaching credential through Cal State San Marcos as well. It took me a
really, really long time because I did everything part-time. I still worked, had the kids, and then
did schooling part-time. So, I was 44 before I ever stepped foot in my own classroom.
DC: And then after that, you did it for how many years?
LK: Almost 18. I was at Jefferson Middle School for almost 18 years.
DC: And Jefferson is located where?
LK: It’s Oceanside Unified School District. It’s in the older part of Oceanside.
DC: And so, up to today you’re still with education in some forms.
LK: Yes. I started volunteering at the library, the Oceanside Public Library at the Literacy
Center. And I really loved doing that. And then I went to the Mission branch library and got with
Jenna Lease. And we created the Art for Older Adult program. And that’s at the senior center in
El Corazon. And next year, we’ll be at both senior centers. I also write curriculum which, Mel,
my interviewee’s brother [Diania chuckles], he wrote a book called Mel and the Blue Arrow and
asked me to illustrate it. So, I did. And so, we’ve been selling that. And then we approached
Pablo Tac Elementary School. They recently changed the name to that. And he—I proposed this
curriculum based on Mel and the Blue Arrow. And then, with Diania, I put together a coloring
book. Diania helped me with the translation. It’s in Luiseño and English. And that’s been very
successful. So, the students will get Mel and the Blue Arrow and the coloring book. So, we start
teaching there in February.
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DC: Twenty?
LK: 2023.
DC: 2023. Okay, when—for me, you know, and in it, being able to interview you, I mean it’s an
honor to be with you and learn from you. But some of the questions on here, you know, you’ve
been in this region here in Southern California, not just L.A., but down here in San Diego
County for how long?
LK: Since 1989.
DC: So, 1989. So, you’ve seen changes that have affected where you’re living at or in the area.
Are any of them for you positive, that you’ve enjoyed watching the change? Or is it some things
that are coming through that are—feel like the region is getting too crowded? Or how do you feel
about it?
LK: It’s so different than when we moved down. Part of the attraction to this, to Oceanside was
we lived in a condominium that overlooked the Mission. But that was all fields and there was
farmland. And you would walk across the street and buy fresh pumpkins. There was a farm
stand. We could walk to the river and float on the river. We can’t do any of that anymore.
There’s buildings, buildings. The 76, we moved here before the 76 was completed. And they
kept saying “Oh, they’ll never build it. It’s been on the books for years.” Well, they built it. And
it was literally—you could throw a stone from our condo. The noise level was unbearable. That’s
what prompted us to move to, now we live in a senior community, which is very quiet [Diania
laughs] which we really like. And the streets are really wide. [both laugh} The neighbors are
really nice. And so, we kind of found our niche there.
DC: So, do you have favorite places in the community there in Oceanside or around the
surrounding areas?
LK: Well, my husband’s a surfer so we love the beach. We go to the harbor quite often to visit
the bench of our youngest son. Did you want me to talk about that?
DC: It’s up to you.
LK: Our youngest son, twelve years ago, was killed in a car accident. And so, we placed a bench
at the harbor, right across from the boat launch, in his memory. So, we go there quite often and
sit on the bench and talk to Jake. I love a lot of the area there. I love Heritage Park. I love Ivy
Ranch Parks. We love parks. Hohomi Park. All the parks we frequent quite often. I enjoy going
to the Mission just because of the grounds more than anything. I feel like I’m walking in history
when I go there. Having learned what I’ve learned about the Luiseños, it’s a way of honoring the
memory of the Luiseños there on that land. It’s sacred land but not sacred because the mission is
there. It’s sacred land because there was a village there. And I’ve learned a lot and learned to
appreciate history in that way.
DC: Well, one of the things that I think I’ve heard you talk about that’s unique is—okay, talk
about when you go to the bakery, San Luis Rey Bakery. What was happening there when you
first was going through there.
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2022-12-22
LK: Oh. The bakery. [Diania laughs] After Jake died in 2010, the anguish was unbelievable. I’ve
never experienced anything like that before or since. And I’ve been through a lot being raised the
way I was raised. But that was just—that was like a part of my soul was taken and my identity.
All of a sudden, I was searching online all the time for things to get my head on, out of the place
it was in, and all of a sudden, this announcement popped up of a flute circle at the San Luis Rey
Bakery. And I went [opens her mouth wide as if in awe] “Jim, we’re going to go to that.” [Diania
chuckles] So, we went. It was about, not maybe a year later, I think. And Mel is the one that
started that. And so, we started going faithfully every month. And little by little just the healing
of that sound and the camaraderie of the people, and the friend—They were so friendly.
Everybody was just so warm and friendly, and we just kind of felt like we fit there. And so, we
went until— It wasn’t Covid hit, really. But through that, I became friends with Mel. That’s
where we started talking about the book. And I became friends with Diania and other people,
Marge and Rob, and the people that frequent the flute circle. And it just was—had a really, really
positive influence on me.
DC: Did you try to play the flute?
LK: I have a flute and I do have one little tune I keep working on.
DC: You should have brought it! [Linda laughs] We could have played it. Now, I’m going to get
you to play the flute.
LK: It’s not for public consumption. [both laugh] I probably wouldn’t be able to hit one note.
[motions with her hands as if pressing on a flute]
DC: Yeah. With the, you know, living there in the valley and seeing the different changes. You
know, like you just talked about, and the flute circle is not there anymore. It’s not that they don’t
want it. It’s just that the capacity and the people have gone on to other things.
LK: Mm-hmm. [nods her head]
DC: There is a unique area right next door also that you’re involved in. You want to talk about
that a little bit?
LK: Are you talking about the Miramid Museum?
DC: Yes. Yes.
LK: With Joanne Tawfilis? Um, yes. Joanne is a muralist. And she does murals for any occasion.
But she usually honors, I guess, tragic events. So, if some kind of tragedy happens, she paints a
mural. And then, she sends it to that place. The most recent was Uvalde in Texas when that crazy
person shot all those children. But I help her with murals. She does other unique things as well.
But murals seem to be her niche in life. And she’s also in the UNESCO Peace Center there. And
one of these days we’ll have a grand opening, when the landlord signs off on it [motions as if
signing something with her right hand] And she does different events there, like her partner is a
drummer, so they do African drumming every Saturday. And she’ll have events there to honor
things that are going on, like she just did her birthday event. That was quite unique.
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2022-12-22
DC: I know that other things that you work with the community, you know, not just like the
Miramid, but I’d like you to stress your art, involvement really with the art. It’s unique, you
know, I think. So, you’ve shared other things that I wasn’t aware of, you know. And I think
that’s unique for us to learn. But can you specify what you do there at the centers there in
Oceanside with the—
LK: Are you thinking of Studio Ace?
DC: No, no. The one down in Oceanside by the library? What’s that center?
LK: Oh, the Literacy Center.
DC: Yes! Yes.
LK: The Literacy Center, I work with developmentally disabled adults. We started a Read-andDraw Program. So, I did a whole year of character education with them. So, I would bring in
posters where they were learning art literacy, visual literacy as well. But each poster had to do
with a character trait, for example, like compassion, or caring, or integrity. So, they got a
different character trait that they learned. And then we would involve poetry. So, we would write
poems. They would do a little drawing lesson and learn to talk about art. And they learned a lot.
And so, we’re going to continue that next year. We’re changing the name to, which I really like,
“Language Artist.” So, they’ll get—and it’s going to be based on the LeBrons art. He’s an
abstract expressionist artist. And so, we’ll look at his art and then I’ll teach them a lesson. And
then, they’ll write something. So, it’s all about literacy. And then, also, I’ve been involved with
Studio Ace since its inception. I’ve been Julia’s advisor, consultant, whatever you want to call it.
I set up programs for her at Laurel Elementary. And before Pablo Tac was Pablo Tac, it was San
Luis Rey Elementary. So, two schools I wrote curriculum for, trained two teachers and then they
took over. But, after that, I just would kind of consult with her, and we created some classes
together for the library. And then I transferred from working with her to working with the library
directly.
DC: So, there’s going to be some changes in your life soon. But how has your life’s path evolved
and changed over the years?
LK: I think since I’ve retired, when you teach art or drama for that matter, the last thing you
want to do when you go home is more of it because you’re so involved with it all day, seven and
a half hours a day. So, that part of my life has really increased as far as my drawing, and doing
art on my own, just for myself. But now, I want to tace that venture a little further and I’m going
to—well, I’ve opened my own business. And so, I’m still going to be offering all the same things
I offer right now—workshops, art lessons, curriculum, whatever people need, healing arts. I have
a whole repertoire of stuff that I can offer. But it will be under the title of “Floating Hearts
Connections.” And even that has meaning to it. Floating hearts is actually an aquatic plant, and
the leaves are shaped like a heart and then this little yellow flower comes up. And it has five
petals. And that has meaning to me because I told you before, I love to swim. Well, when I’m
done swimming, my favorite thing to do is to float. And so, with that in mind, I was looking for
names and talked with my husband, talked with you, talked with Mel. And they said—all of you
said I have to include something heart felt because that’s what I do. I collaborate with people and
provide healing through the arts. And so, when I found that, I went “Oh my gosh! Heart, floating,
6
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2022-12-22
arts” and then the connections that I make. And floating is an acronym also for the love of hearts
in teaching. So, it all just kind of fits it. And so, I have a little logo that I’m working on, and I
have the business license. And I’ve got the insurance. I’m a vendor with the city of Oceanside
now. So, eventually I’ll do a website and have like business cards. I’ll be all official. [Diania
chuckles] So, I can go anywhere and do it. I don’t have to just stay in Oceanside.
DC: Are you going to, at some point, be part of that art—is it the art walk, or whatever it is there
in Oceanside with a booth or anything showing—
LK: Oh. (sighs)
DC: —what you’re going to be doing?
LK: I hadn’t thought about doing that.
DC: Yeah.
LK: Maybe. I don’t know. It’s on my favorite—
DC: Floating hearts. I can see it already, you know. I picture it, you know, on your canopy and
the whole thing.
LK: Well, Diania, to tell you the truth, I hadn’t considered it. [Diania laughs] But I do reach out
to the organizations. Like I did a mural for Ivy Ranch Horse Park. And that was successful. And
then Preserve Calavera, I did one. So, I do reach out to other organizations. But I hadn’t thought
about doing it monthly at Art Walk. But I will consider it.
DC: And once you get your logo going.
LK: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the stuff I do is volunteer.
DC: Oh, yes. Yes.
LK: So, that I think you have to pay. I’m not sure. But I can find out. I may have to pay for a
table to do that. But I don’t know.
DC: [chuckles] We’ve got some more things in there.
LK: [coughs] Excuse me.
DC: Some of these questions that I’m reading for this class and things, you know, I can talk
more, and it depends on how personal you want to, you know, get into there.
LK: Mm-hmm.
DC: Like is there any mentors that you had through your life that have gotten you, you know,
from one stage to another? You know, you can go back on— I look at it, you can go back on
your life and, you know, from your childhood and, you know, the turmoil at one point. And you
must have had some type of mentor. You did mention a teacher, you know, at that point.
LK: Mm-hmm.
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DC: And then, almost everyone had some type in their stage that they don’t realize. There’s that
mentor or that one person that it made a difference, either by saying something or doing
something. Is there any mentor that you feel has helped you throughout your life?
LK: That encouraged—
DC: That encouraged you, that have gotten you to where you’re at today, and you want to speak
about them or just mention them, you know, there, and how they helped you at each different
phase in your life.
LK: Well, dad was probably my first inspiration. Like I said, it was magical to watch him paint.
Mom discouraged it. She didn’t—I guess she was worried that I was going to tace a path of no
return or something. But she always wanted me to become a professional person. And it was
interesting. We had a conversation on the phone one time. She said, “I always thought you’d be
this professional businesswoman.” And I started laughing. And she’s all, “What’s so funny?” I
said, “I am a professional, mom. I’m a teacher.” She goes, “Oh, not that kind of profession.”
Like it was—she kind of thought of it as babysitting, I guess, in her own mind. She never looked
at teaching as a profession. So, I think that got my dander up even more as far as “Well, I’ll show
you.” But then, in college, I had many professors. Deborah Small was one of them, Eureli
Arizmendi, many professors that saw talent and encouraged it in me, gave me more confidence,
especially with theater. Eureli is a professional actress, and she was the professor there at Cal
State San Marcos for a while. Her classes were fantastic, and I had a starring role in one of the
plays we performed around the city. But Deborah Small, she kind of ventured off into computer
art, which I found was not my niche. I preferred drawing. I’m a drawer. I don’t consider myself a
painter. I draw everything. I can paint, and I can use color. But there’s something about a pencil
and paper I love. So, there were colleagues, principals that I worked with that saw in me things
that I didn’t know I had. But, most recently, it’s been people like you, Diania, and Mel in
particular, Joanne, my husband, my son. My grandkids, Ty and Katie, are very important
influencers in my life. And they’re like my biggest fans, so a lot of family. But a lot of—I think
the friends I have now are the closest friends that, compared to past friends when I was younger,
it’s different making friends at this age. It’s a much deeper level or something. It’s not superficial
at all. So, I thank all of you for that. But I think the one who has pushed me the hardest has been
your brother.
DC: (laughs. Linda nods her head.) Well, he’s, to me—I’m just going to let you know—this was
the interview going back and forth, and we’re talking here—is that he sees something in you, and
he connect. And I think it’s the—you both are talented artists. He’s in the music field.
LK: Mm-hmm.
DC: And you show at your artwork, you know. You can express it through art. He expresses
himself through music.
LK: Yes.
DC: And I think the two of you make a good compare because you bounce off each other, like
brother and sister. It’s, you know, on that.
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2022-12-22
LK: Mm-hmm.
DC: It’s not like, you know, husband and wife. It’s more like a brother and sister type of thing.
LK: Yeah. Yeah.
DC: And you’re, you know—it’s good. And you can speak freely to each other, and it’s good. I
think I’ve seen the growth in both of you on that. There’s other things that you have joined us
with, you know, but you don’t mention it. You want to say another type of artwork that you try
to get into (laughs).
LK: Yeah, absolutely. But that’s only through you trusting me and seeing something in me that I
didn’t know there either. Like basketry has been phenomenal. I just—I love it! And I love the
process. I love watching the people do it. I enjoy helping you, and just the joy it brings people to
put together a basket. You don’t think about that as being something people will be drawn to.
But they are. And they’re just kind of one with their basket as they’re creating it, and the joy that
is coming from them and the healing. Because like I tell my students, when you’re doing art, any
kind of art, it’s just you and that piece. Whatever it is you’re working on, your mind is still
going, and the problems are still there. But it takes a back seat because you are so focused on
what you’re creating. And that’s where the healing begins, is—And basketry is like that.
Something about going over, under, over, under (laughs) and getting it right, getting the tension
right. It’s so important. It’s just really—The other thing that we’re involved in is the Valley Arts
Festival which is—Julia started—well, she got a grant. And when she got the grant, she wanted
to know what we should focus on. And her and I had talked about different cultures for many
years. We wanted to do these things. And so, I mentioned the Luiseños because I’ve become
close with you and Mel. And so, I introduced Mel to her and you to her, I think. And that’s
where it went. We just started meeting and planning the Valley Arts Festival which is—We just
did our second one, and it was a huge success. And so, hopefully, that’s going to continue every
year whether she gets that grant or not. We need to continue it because we’re educating the
community about just acknowledging the fact that the Luiseños were here ten or twelve thousand
years before the encroachment of the white people. (both laugh)
DC: It should be that way. But when are you going to go? I knew you’d say something about the
basketry, you know. But that’s not the Luiseño. That’s not our traditional. That’s more the
Cherokee style. What do you feel about learning when you have to sit down and you’re weaving
with us, with traditional?
LK: That is a challenge because the materials are so—You’re very precise about what materials
are used for what part. And it took me a long time to learn even the names, the juncus, the—wait
a minute. I’ll get it in a minute.
DC: (whispers something) Yucca.
LK: Yucca! (both laugh) That is the one I always forget! Always. But what you use for what part
of the basket. And the starting is difficult, but I find the weaving, getting it precise and even and
even the width of it. Like I have to take it out because the one I started is—I went too thick too
soon. But the beauty of it and using the natural materials, there’s something about manipulating
that natural material. But what I focus on when I’m working with you, I think this is what they
9
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2022-12-22
did. They had time to do this, like and it was important because they used—They were functional
art. They used the baskets for everyday things. And our culture, we just go and buy what we
need. We didn’t have to worry about sitting and making something that could hold berries or
hold whatever it was you were going to gather. It’s fascinating to me to be able to learn to do
that. Because you can buy a kit and do a little basket online, you know, buy a kit online and do a
basket. But to do it from the natural materials—Because you have permission to go and gather
that material, the real thing, authentic. I guess that’s what it is. It’s the authenticity of it. That’s
what’s so wonderful about it.
DC: On some of the bigger picture here, what do you think some of your greatest
accomplishments are, you know, up to this point in your life? What do you feel?
LK: Uh, it’s hard. You know me, Diania. I’m not (unintelligible word).
DC: I doubt, I mean, you know—when you think about your greatest accomplishments, you lost
one.
LK: Well, my two sons, absolutely. My two grandchildren. I have two step grandsons now too.
My son is remarried. I’m really proud of all of them. They’ve come so far. But in my working
world, I think some of my greatest accomplishments were getting Teacher of the Year three
times and being runner up for county Teacher of the Year. I came in second or something like
that. That was very—I was really honored by that. And so, I’ve gotten a lot of awards for
teaching. And so, I’m proud of that. What I’m learning to become proud of is my own artwork,
believe it or not. I’m not one to brag or toot my own horn but I am progressing, and I am getting
much more confident about creating my own art.
DC: But do you have any plans still for your life, you know, in the future? I mean, you’ve gotten
your business. Now you’re doing this. Do you see the plans, how it’s going to go into the future?
I mean, how’s it going to broaden for you in helping you within in your, you know, I’d call it
your second career, your third career. How do you feel about that in your life?
LK: What are my hopes for that? What do I hope to achieve?
DC: Mm-hmm.
LK: Long range goal, I would love to create a website and be able to market things that I create
like the curriculum. I would love to market the Mel and the Blue Arrow curriculum because I
think it’s really good and solid. And I would love for teachers throughout the county to be able to
use it, particularly in North County where the Luiseños—this is the traditional land—because
that will further the education of the people that live here, of the people that were here prior to
us. And learning how they lived and honoring them as a people instead of somebody that we just
kind of pushed out of the way is what I feel like we did with the indigenous people. And then,
possibly, I’m writing another book. It’s called The Adventure of Big Pig. It’s about a guinea pig
and that’s in honor of my sister who is suffering from a fatal illness. And I hope to get that done
before—And even if I have to self-publish that as well, I will, just so she can have that. And I’m
really close with her. She lives in Colorado. So, this is a difficult time. But that’s in honor of her.
So, things like that. I hope to further writing. I write an article a month for Indian Voices, thanks
10
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�LINDA KALLAS
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2022-12-22
to your brother Mel. [Diania chuckles] And that’s been challenging but also uniquely fun. It’s
fun on a different level.
DC: What do you think—Not to wrap it up or anything but is there any regrets within your life or
you could have changed something differently at any point, you know, in your life? I, you know,
I don’t like asking that question, personally, because I don’t think people should have regrets.
But some people can look at life differently, you know. And it’s hindsight, but you can’t change
anything. But is there anything that you would probably feel that could have been better or you
could have did something differently?
LK: I don’t look at it as regrets. I look at the past mistakes that I made. I would have made—
There are different things. I would have made different choices. But what I’ve learned, by the
age of 69, is all of those mistakes and all of the experiences you go through is what brings you to
where you are right now. And had you not gone through those trials and tribulations and the
mistakes, you would be different. I would be different. So, I have a different philosophy about it
now. I just think everything we go through in life is going to take us to a different place and
change us in a way that we need to change. And I also have learned through yoga and meditation
to be grateful for even the bad things because it’s an opportunity to learn and it’s an opportunity
for growth. And that’s kind of how I view things, and I wake up feeling grateful and I go to sleep
feeling grateful. And I think that’s a gift we give ourselves because when you’re grateful, you
can go out in the world and share that gift with others. And so, I try to practice that daily. So,
yes, mistakes, but we all make them. We’re only human. [Diania chuckles] What do you expect
from us? [Both laugh]
DC: Is there anything that you want to let the people know that, you know, when they do view
this recording and you’re going to be put in an archive. And if a student comes by or another
person comes by and wants to know who Linda Kallas was and what she had done, is there
anything you want to share with that person or group in this interview right now. You did do a
little bit now, but is there anything more you want to say to kind of wrap it up to where you feel
why this was important to do?
LK: Well, I think one thing would be never, never give up. Never quit on a dream or an
aspiration. You’re never too old to try something new. Never. Unless you physically cannot do
it, physically. But, you know, to always keep learning in any capacity you can. Pursue interests.
Pursue what interests you because there’s so much out there to gain knowledge on. But never
give up. Never quit. You can’t quit. I sure wanted to when my son died. But I didn’t and I’m glad
I didn’t. And everything I do now is in honor of him and the love for him and the love we shared
as mother/son because that does not die. The physical person goes away. But the love you share
with another person never dies.
DC: Well, thank you, Linda. I really enjoyed doing this and I enjoyed my friendship and
everything. I hope it’s going to continue on. And so, we both have grown together and shared
some things that I know you didn’t share with, you know. We’ve got De Loos. We’ve got
different places I’ve taken you, regarding into the Indian world, or you want to say that on there.
But I’m going to wrap it up and say “Noh, shalovik.”
LK: Noh, shalovik.
11
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�LINDA KALLAS
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DC: Noh, shalovik.
LK: Thank you so much, Diania.
12
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�
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Kallas, Linda. Interview transcript, December 22, 2022.
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript of oral history interview of Linda Kallas, December 22, 2022. Interview conducted by Diania L. Caudell. Linda Kallas is a retired middle school art and drama teacher who has collaborated with other local artists and authors on a variety of endeavors, including illustrating "Mel and the Blue Arrow" written by Mel Vernon (Luiseño). Kallas and Vernon also collaborated on a Luiseño/English coloring book and on an arts integrated curriculum taught at Pablo Tac Elementary School in Oceanside. Kallas is also on the committee for the Valley Arts Festival that celebrates Luiseño culture each November at Heritage Park, Oceanside. In her interview, Kallas talks to Diania Caudell about topics such as family, school, higher education, post-college life, and her various art and cultural projects.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Linda Kallas
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Diania Caudell
Melissa Martin
Date
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2022-12-22
Subject
The topic of the resource
Arts education
Basket making
California State University San Marcos
Death and remembrance
Education -- Native Americans
Illustration of books
Luiseño Indians
Pablo Tac Elementary School (Oceanside, Calif.)
Valley Arts Festival (Oceanside, Calif.)
Women artists
Coverage
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Oceanside (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
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Linda Kallas
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Art and artists
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Jennifer Fabbi
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Katherine Kantardjieff
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6.0 Kantardjieff, Katherine. Interview November 18th, 2025. SC027-092 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Katherine Kantardjieff Jennifer Fabbi moving image KantardjieffKatherine_FabbiJennifer_2025-11-18.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/dacbce318b44c5d53c56cf3c0a13616f.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction 0 35 Childhood and adolescence Kantardjieff discusses her Bulgarian American upbringing, family and cultural traditions, education at Immaculate Heart High School, and efforts to preserve her family heritage through genealogy. Bulgarian American ; Immaculate Heart High School ; Los Angeles ; Hollywood ; geneaology 0 444 Formal education Kantardjieff describes her path from chemistry at the University of Southern California and teaching at Immaculate Heart and Daniel Murphy High School to a PhD in physical chemistry at the University of California, Los Angeles and a 20-year career at Cal State Fullerton focused on molecular structure, drug discovery, computational science, and innovative education. physical chemistry ; University of Southern California ; University of California, Los Angeles ; Cal State Fullerton 0 1116 Women in science Kantardjieff discusses challenging gender stereotypes in science, mentoring women, using leadership to create opportunities for others, and embracing her interdisciplinary identity while teaching and advancing her career at Cal State Fullerton. women in science ; gender stereotypes ; mentorship ; Cal State Fullerton 0 1437 Time as a faculty member Kantardjieff built innovative biotechnology, molecular modeling, and online-learning programs at Cal State Fullerton before transitioning from faculty to academic leadership as chair of chemistry at Cal Poly Pomona. academic technology ; CSUPERB ; Cal Poly Pomona 0 2051 Path to administration 
 ; Kantardjieff's path to becoming an administrator grew from departmental leadership at Cal Poly Pomona, where she revitalized the chemistry graduate program, managed budget and union challenges, and was recruited for the newly created College of Science and Mathematics at CSU San Marcos. department chair ; administrative leadership ; Cal Poly Pomona ; Higher Education ; CSU San Marcos 0 2327 Arrival at California State University San Marcos As founding dean of CSUSM’s College of Science and Mathematics, Kantardjieff navigated the college’s restructuring, established its mission and governance, built trust with faculty, launched the Summer Scholars program, and led the college through its formative first year. CSUSM College of Science and Mathematics ; faculty governance ; college restructuring ; Summer Scholars 0 2726 Development of engineering programs During her nine-year tenure as dean at CSUSM, Kantardjieff led the collaborative effort to establish an engineering program, securing faculty, industry, and grant support and ultimately gaining unanimous Academic Senate approval. Engineering program ; faculty collaboration ; Academic Senate 0 3215 Provost role at California State University Monterey Bay Kantardjieff pursued a transition from dean to provost, ultimately becoming Provost at CSU Monterey Bay in 2020, where she managed pandemic operations, student affairs, organizational restructuring, leadership transitions, and significant family losses. CSU Monterey Bay ; Covid pandemic ; provost ; CSU Monterey Bay ; leadership transition 0 4482 Retirement After retirement and completing her parents’ estate affairs, Kantardjieff rediscovered creative and outdoor interests including cooking, furniture upholstery, jewelry making, photography, hiking, gardening, and growing mushrooms. retirement ; gardening ; cooking 0 4765 People who have influenced her Kantardjieff credits personal inspirations such as John Glenn, Jacques Cousteau, Julia Child, George Bernard Shaw, and Frank Shorter, as well as professional mentors John Olmstead, Barbara Finlayson-Pitts, Don Straney, Karen Haynes, and Graham Oberem, with shaping her scientific, administrative, and leadership approach. leadership ; mentors 0 5076 Philosophy of mentorship Kantardjieff’s mentoring philosophy emphasizes helping people build confidence without trying to “fix” them, seeking diverse trusted advisers for difficult decisions, and “lifting as we climb” by creating opportunities for the next generation of women in STEM and leadership. women in STEM ; mentoring ; leadership development 0 5289 Performing at the 1984 Olympics Opening Ceremonies Kantardjieff proudly reflects on performing Bulgarian folk dances at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, an experience that celebrated her cultural heritage, love of diversity, and sense of identity and belonging. 1984 Los Angeles Olympics ; Bulgarian heritage ; cultural identity 0 oral history NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:22.964 Hello, this is Jen Fabbi, and today I'm interviewing Dr. Katherine Kantardjieff for the California State University, San Marcos University Library Oral History Program. Today is November 18th, 2025, at 9:23 a.m. This interview is taking place on the CSU San Marcos campus in the Kellogg Library. Katherine, thank you so much for interviewing with me today-- 00:00:22.964 --> 00:00:25.684 --Oh, it's my pleasure. My pleasure. 00:00:25.684 --> 00:00:35.515 So we'll start off. Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood and adolescence, for example, where you were born and a bit about your family? 00:00:35.515 --> 00:03:30.044 That is a great question. And I sometimes joke to--it's a joke with people when we travel because my other half, Bernhard, will often tell people I'm born in Hollywood, and they go all crazy like, she's born in Hollywood, 'cause--anyway. But I am born in Hollywood. I am very proud Bulgarian American. My parents and grandparents immigrated from Eastern Europe after World War I and World War II. And so, I grew up in a very (culturally) rich community in East Hollywood that was filled with people who had immigrated to the United States. But it was--we had a very close-knit Bulgarian community in Los Angeles. And that led to all kinds of unique experiences as a child from my father having Bulgarian school and making sure everybody in the family could read, write Cyrillic and speak Bulgarian. I spoke Bulgarian at home until I went to kindergarten. It's rough now, but I can still read and write, which helped me as a chemist because I could read Russian and anything in Cyrillic. I danced in a dance group for five years, Balkan dancing. We were in the 1984 Olympic opening ceremony. And also, a unique experience being in the Bulgarian community is my grandparents--in Eastern Europe, the center of the community is the church, the Orthodox church. And so they raised money to buy land. And then my parents' generation were the architects and the construction people, who built a church in Hollywood. So we built a church at Bronson and Virginia near La Conte Junior High School (now Le Conte Middle School). And so, we laid a cornerstone, groundbreaking cornerstone. We had a youth group. We painted pews, dyed Easter eggs, made candles out of beeswax--we did all these unique things as part of our cultural experience. So I grew up very much immersed in that culture. It didn't come without problems. I mean, my father was very Old World classic Eastern Europe, kind of strict, you know, and I was the older daughter of the family, oldest in the family, the daughter. But we had a--it was a rich experience. And then the other part of my experience growing up in Los Angeles is that I'm a very proud graduate of Immaculate Heart High School. We are women of great heart, and I mentioned that, and I'll get emotional talking about it, but I just had my 50th with high school reunion in May. And ten years ago at our 40th anniversary or reunion, we raised money to renovate a classroom in one of the buildings to enable--technology enable it to support the modern pedagogy that we all use today. So we raised well in excess of $10,000 to renovate this classroom and then the overflow we put into a scholarship fund. Five years later was the pandemic. We couldn't meet in person, but for our 50th, we all came together once again. (Tearful) And we raised $12,000. I'm sorry, I get emotional. 00:03:30.044 --> 00:03:30.870 That's okay. Take your time. 00:03:30.870 --> 00:03:45.664 And it was this time for a project to support belonging and community, and it was to put new bleachers in the gym for assemblies and sporting events. And so we just surprised everybody because in one week we raised $12,000. 00:03:45.664 --> 00:03:46.625 That's amazing. 00:03:46.625 --> 00:03:54.544 It was about paying it back and paying it forward for the next generation. So anyway, sorry (laughter). As I get older, that happens. 00:03:54.544 --> 00:03:58.685 No need for an apology. Just take your time. 00:03:58.685 --> 00:04:03.000 I also mentioned I sang in the church choir for thirty-five years, too. My father was the choir director. 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:03.865 Wow. 00:04:03.865 --> 00:04:08.425 And my brother has all his music that he's composed and transcribed now. 00:04:08.425 --> 00:04:10.205 So it's you and your brother? 00:04:10.205 --> 00:04:12.875 I have a younger brother, four years younger than me. 00:04:12.875 --> 00:04:14.824 Okay. 00:04:14.824 --> 00:04:16.595 But I have a big family. 00:04:16.595 --> 00:04:17.925 Okay. Do you want to talk more about your family? 00:04:17.925 --> 00:04:52.954 My immediate family at one point was about sixty people (laughter). Thanksgivings and Christmas were interesting. We still have a pretty large family, although it's extended now because my cousins have kids who have kids. It's hard to say when you have people who have grandkids. So we still have a big family. We're rather spread out. Most of us are still in California, but we're spread--a lot of us are now here in the San Diego area, which makes me happy. We have a few in the Bay Area and then we have a spattering of people in the Pacific Northwest. 00:04:52.954 --> 00:04:57.524 Nice. Okay. So moving on-- 00:04:57.524 --> 00:04:59.999 Then I have family in Bulgaria I forgot to mention, too. 00:04:59.999 --> 00:05:00.628 Oh, okay, well do-- 00:05:00.628 --> 00:05:01.884 --lots of family in Bulgaria. 00:05:01.884 --> 00:05:03.355 Okay. Do you get back there? 00:05:03.355 --> 00:05:04.495 I never visited. 00:05:04.495 --> 00:05:04.504 Okay. 00:05:04.504 --> 00:06:54.634 It was hard to do that at certain times because of politics, and then just in my travels, it was hard to do. I'd like to do it. But one of the things I've done since--I started during the pandemic and then I really picked it up during retirement is for my birthday, after I retired, I decided to do ancestry.com and do the DNA testing. And part of it was to prove my father right. That we're Bulgarian to the core, which I am for the most part. Part of it was maybe he's wrong, and we've got some other things in us, you know. But because I did that and then I did my heritage on top of that, I have picked up--I have been able to fill in my family tree 'cause I lost--a lot of it had gaps, especially from my father's side in Eastern Europe because records weren't kept, or records were destroyed during the war. So the fact that I've got a database now that I can look at, I have found all kinds of cousins, and I've still got a gap I gotta fix. But I've got, I don't know how many hundreds of people on my family tree now. So it's been really good to fill--that was my father's dream to make sure we knew our heritage in Europe. And he used to write a lot of stories. And what actually got me started on the journey with the family tree is, after the pandemic, my father was already in assisted living. And he was trying to get back to writing, but he was forgetting. And he'd call me at noon sometime--I could--you know, Provost then, but he calls it noon, Hi, how you doing? I can't remember my grandmother's name. And I thought, Oh gosh. My records are all back in--I was up in Cal State Monterey Bay at the time, and my records were all back here in Southern California, but I thought, I've gotta get this down somewhere because he's gonna' forget. So that's what really motivated me to do that. And I'm glad I did it. So, anyway. Sorry I interrupted you twice (laughter). 00:06:54.634 --> 00:06:56.074 This is your interview. 00:06:56.074 --> 00:06:57.805 Okay. 00:06:57.805 --> 00:07:06.000 I'm taking your lead. So--and we can definitely go back to anything that comes up about your family as we move on. 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.385 Sure. 00:07:07.385 --> 00:07:19.000 So next, can you tell me about your formal education, which you talked about Immaculate Heart High School, but then including post-secondary-- 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Yeah. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:24.000 --and your areas of academic focus? 00:07:24.000 --> 00:17:43.743 So I will begin with some humor in that I am schizophrenic academic in that I am a graduate of both the University of Southern California (USC) and the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). And I had the unmitigated gall going from undergrad to grad to drive through the UCLA campus with a USC sticker on the back window of my car. At Immaculate Heart I kind of narrowed down my choices of career path that I wanted. So growing up, initially I wanted to be an astronomer, a musician, or an oceanographer. I'm not good in the water, so that eliminated oceanographer. For a while. I wanted to be an astronaut. As a matter of fact, I was always late for school watching the rocket launches on television in the early Musician, I studied classical piano for ten years. But when I got to the end of my high school career, I had narrowed it down that I really liked chemistry in part 'cause my father's oldest sister, who had immigrated to Brazil after the war was a chemist. She worked for a company in São Paulo that was kind of like a L'Oreal-type company. And she came to visit us when I was ten. And I just, I thought she rocked it. She was just this cool lady, and she was a chemist, and I loved making things in the house. Years later, I told my mother that she and my dad should have bought me a chemistry kit when I was a kid. They didn't want to, they thought it was dangerous. And I said--because I improvised, I found things stored in the house, and I was mixing things in the kitchen and on the stove. And I said, knowing what I know now, it was not good. Anyway. I really liked chemistry, and I love cooking--till do--which is chemistry. But it was sort of focused towards medicine. And I really liked animals, and so my focus at that point was that I wanted to be a veterinarian and work in a zoo. As a matter of fact, my last two years of college, I worked at the Los Angeles Zoo as a zookeeper, which people say looks interesting on my resume but must have prepared me well for other things. But anyway, I worked at the zoo. So when I went off to USC, I was a chemistry major, but I was taking all the pre-med stuff. And the reason I chose chemistry is because at that time, which was the late seventies, biotech hadn't really taken off yet. And if you had a biology degree and you went to work in industry, which was my backup plan, you got retrained as a chemist. And I really liked chemistry, but I was taking all the bio classes for pre-med. So when I graduated from USC, my intention was to go to veterinary school, and the only--and I was restricted to apply at that time to the one in the state, which is up at Davis. And it's very competitive. And even though I'd worked at the zoo and I had the grades, I didn't--I hadn't enough hours working with animals. And so that was one of the thing--and I'm also not a very big person, so people look at me like, I don't think you can flip a cow over to give it, you know, Anyway, I didn't get into vet school. But again, some serendipity--and Immaculate Heart comes back into the picture--is that my brother was graduating the year that I graduated college, and he was invited to the commencement ceremonies for Immaculate Heart. He and his buddies had some friends. Well, we graduate from the Hollywood Bowl. And we don't wear caps and gowns. We wear white formals and carry red roses. So anyway, I went to the Hollywood Bowl, and afterwards I decided to go backstage to say hello to some people. So I went backstage. saying hello to the principal and some of my instructors. And so the chair of the math department, Natalie Ambrose, walks up to me. Now, Natalie was probably a head shorter than me, tough, stocky-like, and she looks at me and she goes (looks up), How'd you like to teach in the math department? (Laughter) And totally hit me out of the blue. But I thought, you know, as a kid, we always played school. And I was the teacher. And I thought, I need a job. I don't want to keep working at the zoo. I've decided I'm gonna' try human medicine, and I need to study up for the MCATs (Medical College Admission Test) and things. And so I decided to take a job at Immaculate Heart. So for one year at Immaculate Heart, I taught algebra and geometry, and I taught summer school. And they trained me how to teach really well. They'd come in your classroom and observe you. And anyway, I realized I had a passion for it, but also I had a flare for it. And so then, my mother was still very active at Daniel Murphy High School, where my brother went to school. And she said, the Dominican Brothers--they were mostly Dominicans, but there were also lay faculty. She said, they're looking for somebody to teach chemistry because Brother Jim was going somewhere else. And I said, oh. So she goes, you want to interview? And I said, sure. So I went over there to interview, and they hired me like that (snaps fingers). So not only so--and now I was teaching in my field, which is chemistry, but they didn't just hire me to teach chemistry. Now remember, I'm one year out of college, and I did not do any credentialing 'cause to teach in a private, you didn't need credentials. I was teaching chemistry, honors chemistry--not all the same yea--honors biology, physical science, physics. I was in seventh heaven. I love this stuff. And I was chair of the science department for the two years I was there. So, I mean, this was like baptism by fire, you know, but learned a lot, honed my skills. I did the MCATs. I did well, but not super well. I don't test well. I get nervous. And I thought, I really like this teaching business. But I realized that I was at a point where I was gonna' hit a ceiling, and I couldn't go any farther. And not that I didn't enjoy high school. I loved teaching high school. All these young people were wonderful, but I knew that I'd have more doors open to me if I had an advanced degree. I could always go back and teach high school. So that's when I decided to go to grad school. And I applied to UCLA and Caltech. I know this is gonna' be on the web, but I'll frame it the way it was. So I got accepted to both. I interviewed at Caltech, and at the time, there were very few women at Caltech. And it was just really uncomfortable--I mean, I felt I could do the work, but I didn't want the added weight of being the only woman in a lab, and I didn't see any women on the faculty. And so UCLA on the other hand had more people with whom I wanted to do research. I had more choices. There were more women, and they had a women's group of the graduate students that met once a month just for potluck and whatever, just to find out how everybody was doing. So I felt that I had more choices there, and I had the opportunity to have support. So I went to UCLA. So that's how I ended up at the other institution across town. So I was in grad school for a total of five years to work on my PhD. And I ended up doing research and earning my degree in an area that melded all my skills because I had a lot of biology background. I had a lot of chemistry background, and I loved physics. So I ended up with a PhD in physical chemistry. But my research and my passion has been, ever since, molecular structure, particularly macromolecules, which means proteins, DNA, things involved in health and wellbeing, biochemistry. And I ended up ultimately more focused on drug design and discovery, which also infused some computation in addition to experimental methods, which the experimental methods at the time was X-ray diffraction. Now it's gone into electron microscopy and electron diffraction. But that was--and it was still a burgeoning, somewhat burgeoning field at the time. We were always advancing methods and technology and things, and so I was always at the cutting edge of that, which was a lot of fun. And I realized that I was excited by the field. and at times I was the only woman in the lab, too, but it didn't matter. And when I was trying to decide what to do after that, it was either go into industry--and I had a job offer, but it was in Canada. And although it was really interesting--and then somebody wanted to interview me here in San Diego. Again, it was really interesting, but I really wanted the teaching part. I wanted the best of both worlds, and so I opted not to pursue the industry jobs. Ironically, the industry job would've been at a company run by Al Kern (laughter). So anyway, years later we laughed about that. He goes, yeah, I heard about you then. Anyway, I decided I didn't want to pursue an R1 (Doctoral Universities: Very High Research Activity) institution. I wanted to go to a primarily undergraduate institution and bring my research to the masses, quote unquote. So that's how I ended up at Cal State Fullerton, where I spent twenty years on the faculty. I'm probably diverging from your question now, but there I was able to do a lot because they were trying to build up a biochemistry program. I developed the physical chemistry course for that program. I developed a lot of innovative curriculum in computational chemistry and biology. And most importantly, I conceived, established, and directed the Keck Center for Molecular Structure there, which I moved around a couple of times. And I think that's one of the biggest things I was able to do because people supported it and enabled me to do cutting-edge things. I was the faculty coordinator for academic technology there for a while. And so, yeah, so I think that's one of the highlights of my career because it was also remotely enabled instruments. We had students all over the state and all over the country who were able to use our instrumentation to do things that they weren't able to do in the classroom or the lab before. And we even brought it into high school classrooms, too, so it was a lot of fun. 00:17:43.743 --> 00:18:36.085 That's so impressive. I'm gonna' go back a little bit to some things that you hit on especially around gender in the workforce. I mean, this is during a time when women in the workforce was just much less prevalent generally, but in the field of science, it sounds like you definitely stood out in terms of being a woman scientist especially working in some of the fields that you're talking about--physics and chemistry. Do you feel like that has impacted your career at all? Other than the decisions you made about your schooling--where you went to school--and also has that given you opportunities in the field? 00:18:36.085 --> 00:23:43.105 That's a great question. I would say that in the period that I came up the ranks, if you will, in my career, there were a lot of developments and doors opening, and I was astute to always take advantage of those doors when they opened. So that's number one. Number two, I think the education that I received at Immaculate Heart helped a lot. Because we were empowered with a courage of conviction, a strong sense of self. I mean, when I went to USC, there were times when I was the only woman in a physics lab, and my lab partner would try to do everything. And I just went to the TA (teaching assistant) or the instructor and said, Look, I'm not--how am I gonna' earn a grade if somebody else is doing my work? You know? So I had the courage to do that, and the strong sense of self meant that even though I was sometimes the only one in the lab, I still felt I belonged. I didn't, I wasn't intimidated by it. I never felt intimidated by it. Which is interesting 'cause some women do, but I didn't. And as the doors opened--to your point about how did it influence you--I kept wanting to move up, not for the sake of moving up and having some title. I wanted to move up because as I moved up the ranks, I would be in a position where I could change the rules--silly rules that were preventing people from advancing women in particular. And the color of somebody's skin--I don't know how to word it. It was irrelevant to me. If they were a woman and they were talented, they deserved to be there. I mentored young women. I ended up as the faculty advisor to a sorority at Fullerton even though I was never in a sorority. And I always kind of frowned on sororities. And then I realized they actually do some good (laughter). So yeah, one of my lab students asked me to be the faculty advisor. And I would often give talks. The RAs (research assistants) would often invite me to the dorms to give talks about women in science and whatnot. And then, I did encounter some weird things a couple of times. I'll share some comments anonymously. One was when I was when I was establishing the Center for Molecular Structure, and we were considering different vendors for instrumentation. People knew they were coming to meet Dr. Kantardjieff, and they had heard that I was a woman, but they had in their mind this image of what a woman scientist is supposed to look like. And the salesman said to me when he saw me, he goes, I expected somebody wearing dirndl skirt, bobby socks, and clogs or something. And I'm like, what? (Laughter) Because the other piece of this is--and somebody said to me once, you can just wear jeans and a t-shirt. And I said, I'm a professor. I'm not wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I still look younger than my students. Not anymore. So there were these weird comments like that. And I defied the stereotype, and I get that from my late mother, because my mother was a very--had an elegance to--she never went out without her suit or hat or jewel--I mean, she was always impeccably dressed. She did some modeling when she was younger. She sewed--she sewed everything when we were kids. I mean, nowadays you have the internet. We had the Sears Roebuck catalog and the catalog would come, and I'd be sitting there as a toddler on the couch pointing out things and bending corners on the pages 'cause these are the things I wanted my mom to buy, but she'd go out and buy the fabric and the pattern and she'd make me custom stuff. She taught me to sew. So I made myself suits when I had time and bathing suits and business suits and whatnot. I used to joke at professional talks. I'd say, If you want a bathing suit, let me know. I can whip off one in an hour. So I defied the stereotype because I didn't look the way people pictured. They pictured--what is that Muppet character, Bunsen Beaker or whatever, Dr. Bunsen or whatever? They expected me to have a lab coat, pens, calculat--you know, this. My friends who knew me well enough, when we'd go out and they'd introduce me to their friends were like guess what she does? And people were like are you in advertising? Are you in business? And we go, oh, no, no, no. What are you a rocket scientist? And I said, you're getting closer. You know, people would laugh. I always wanted to defy that stereotype, and I probably still do in some ways. But I just wanted to be me, and I didn't want to end up wearing a tweed suit and a bun, which doesn't look like me. It might look very well on somebody else, but that's not me. So, you know, wearing a suit with curly hair probably isn't considered professional by some people. But anyway, I just wanted to be me. 00:23:43.105 --> 00:23:57.664 I love that. So you talked about your path to becoming a faculty member at Fullerton, but maybe a little bit more about that time working with students and then how you progressed in your career. 00:23:57.664 --> 00:25:39.085 So my time at Fullerton was, again, another period I--every institution I've been at has been one that's in a transition, and it's in a growth. So I think if--people say you thrive just outside your comfort zone, and you thrive in managing change and evolving and focusing change, and that's what happened at Fullerton. So I replaced the founding member of the department. So that in itself is a shock to the system because now the founding department member's gone and here's this new person. And I didn't look anything like John Bryden. I'm this young woman, just like I was this woman chemistry teacher at Daniel Murphy, which was an all-boys Catholic high school. They had instructors rotate in and out that didn't last a semester. And then I walked in, in a suit and spectator--high heels and whatnot. They're like, now--it was like Monty Python, And now for something completely different. So I came to Fullerton, and as I said, they hired me because of my interdisciplinary background, which the institution wasn't ready for. Now it's very interdisciplinary, but because I was interdisciplinary, I often felt a lot of friction because I wasn't--they couldn't put me in a box. And the other thing was that all the department chairs that I had when I was faculty would view me as the utility player because they could assign me to teach just about anything if they needed me to do it, which I took great pride in. I think the only thing I didn't teach at Fullerton was an organic lab? I taught analytical, I taught computation. I taught P (physical) chem, I taught gen chem, I taught prep chem. 00:25:39.085 --> 00:25:39.775 I've heard students-- 00:25:39.775 --> 00:25:40.845 I taught inorganic. 00:25:40.845 --> 00:25:45.102 I've heard students just love organic chemistry (laughter). 00:25:45.102 --> 00:33:51.005 So it was a time where I really felt I could blossom because I was tapping my passions and talents. Also, when I got there--this was 1989-90--CSUPRB (California State University Program for Education and Research in Biotechnology), which is now CSU BIOTECH. They had just started in 1988, and they were looking for people like me. And at the time, the late Glen Nagel was my department chair, and I don't know if Steve Dahms is still alive, but Steve Dahms, who was at San Diego State, was head of CSUPRB. (Dahms died in 2024.) He was one of the founders of CSUPERB. And they met with me and had lunch and said, We want a core facility here at Fullerton, and we want a core facility in X-ray diffraction, and we want you to build it. So I had the backing of the CSU. Not everybody knew this (laughter), which caused some friction down the line. But I was able to go after a lot of funding, write a lot of grants, and I was very good at targeting funding sources where we had a high probability of getting funded. And even though they weren't the largest grants, if you get a lot of littler ones, that adds up to way more than you would if you tried to go after one big one. So we got a lot of funding from NSF (National Science Foundation), from the Dreyfus Foundation, and ultimately from Keck for the Center. And so that was that period. But also during that time, computers were really expanding. I remember the day I came back from summer, and I had a computer on my desk with email and everything. And I had gone down to the computer center to ask for an email account, which was, can you believe this was rare in 1989? He goes, you and one of the physics faculty have an email. I said, I want an email and I want all the students in my lab to have an email. They did it. And all those students went on to grad school, industry. One of them runs a lab at Eli Lilly, other--but they're all doing things based with computing. And one of them ultimately, who lives here in Carlsbad, he ended up--actually the university probably knows who he is, but I won't mention his name--but he ended up high up at PayPal and eBay and in computer security and all of this, cybersecurity. And he worked for the government for a while and whatnot. So they all got that experience because of the computing facilities we had as part of the lab because we needed to do molecular modeling and visualization. And so in those days, it was Silicon Graphics everything. And so we had this really nice Silicon Graphics lab where we were teaching classes and the students could go do research. And then I started doing--I had online office hours before anybody knew what those were (laughter) and thought it was weird. But they were like, But hey, and I said, yeah, but students appreciate it. They can have office hours with me on a Sunday evening after they put their kid to bed. You know? So the students really appreciated what I was doing for them. It was also convenient for me, too. But anyway, so I was getting really well versed in online tools, the precursors to Zoom. And I was working closely with the CIO (Chief Information Officer), and that's how I got involved with the faculty development center, where ultimately I became the faculty coordinator for academic technology. So I got to advise the CIO on what they should be looking at for the faculty. And my advice to them always was, look, nobody's going to use all of these tools, but they want something that has a common interface that they can learn how to use and then pick and choose the elements they want. Make it less daunting for them. So we ultimately picked the product for--that I don't even know if it exists anymore. It was called iLinc, but it does--it did all the things that Zoom does. You could divide people in groups and whatnot. And so when we ran into--and I would tutor faculty, train faculty on how to teach with these tools. And I would deliberately do it, like, I had a research trip. I had to go to the Beamlines in Chicago at Argonne National Lab. I'm in the--they have the equivalent of like dorms where people stay when they're working at the Beamlines. I'm in the dorm, I said at the appointed time, we're gonna' have an online class. So I had like fifteen people online with me. I'm dividing 'em in groups. They're doing all kinds of things. They're like, wow, this is easy. I'm like, yes, it is. You know? So then they would--I helped a faculty member teach a class of 120. I helped somebody else teach a class of 10. And then we ran into a space crunch in the department, and I was teaching the computational chemistry courses. And we only had one lab with forty stations, and we only used 36 because we needed spares. And the department chair said, But we have a whole backlog of people who need this class to graduate. I said, Okay, enroll 'em. He says, Well, how do we do this? I said, Gimme the lab at seven-thirty in the morning so we can use it and it doesn't conflict with any of the other biochemistry classes. And I said, But enroll 80 people. He goes, what are you gonna' do? I said, look, I have to get 'em all in there the first day. So let the fire marshal--you know, whoever needs to know--I need them all the first two sessions. They said, Okay, we can use the room next--we'll use another room next door. Anyway, I got 'em all in there, and I said, Okay, for the first two days, you need to learn how to use this interface, and then I'm gonna'--then half, then you can take it from anywhere. We're gonna meet in here at this time, and some of you can come in and meet in here, but the rest of you can be anywhere you want. And I would track them by IP address and everything else. And so that's how it works. So I taught this class. We absorbed everybody who needed it to graduate, but at any given time, I never had more than about 25 people physically there. The rest of them were remote, and I could track 'em. They knew I could track 'em. And I had a student who was way ahead of everybody on the learning curve with this technology. And he was getting really bored, and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna' enlist him to be my teaching assistant. So I said, I want you to help me with this. He said, Really? And I said, Yeah, here's your station. You make sure you monitor the groups, jump in and out and I'll--worked great. Best class I ever taught. So I did a lot with technology. But--which will segue to the next segment, after faculty what did I do? All of those experiences made me realize that I was enabling people to do things, and I enjoyed doing that. As much if not more than doing the things myself. And I realized that to be one of those enablers, I was gonna' have to step out of the faculty ranks. I couldn't do it while I was faculty. And I had colleagues in the CSU who were urging me to apply for dean positions that were opening up. And I said, But, although I've been a director of a core facility and I've run a multi-million dollar budget, I've never been a department chair. And indeed, that was the thing that kept getting me eliminated. You haven't been a department chair. So I knew I had to be a department chair. And there were several of us who had been hired within a few years of each other, who were now all coming of age to department chairs. Any one of us could have done it, but I thought it would be more prudent, more practical, more of an advantage if I became a department chair on another campus to show that I could learn how to do that elsewhere. And the dean at (Cal Poly) Pomona at the time, who was Don Straney, wanted to recruit me to be chair, and the faculty wanted me to come and be chair because they were having a lot of issues, again, growing pains, people retiring, you know, this sort of thing. And so that's how I made the move to the next step where I became department chair--of chemistry at Pomona. 00:33:51.005 --> 00:33:54.000 Okay. To Pomona. And how long were you at Pomona? 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.795 Two years. 00:33:55.795 --> 00:34:00.000 Two years, Okay. Then after that, did you come to CSU San Marcos? 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.875 Yeah. 00:34:00.875 --> 00:34:11.684 Okay. So let me know--tell me about your administrative path leading you to your hire at CSU San Marcos. So you kind of said here's where I was, and I was here for two years, but what happened? 00:34:11.684 --> 00:34:52.000 So I went to Pomona--I was at Pomona, and it's odd because Pomona was on quarters. Fullerton was on semesters. The first quarter was kind of an overlap with the two. So I was sort of transitioning out of Fullerton and transitioning to Pomona, but I was working with the Dean 'cause Pomona's graduate program in chemistry was struggling. And so I helped resurrect it before I got--right when I got there. So like, oh, she saved the program. And I was doing some mathematical calculations about intake and outflow of students and all this, and how many students, how many classes we needed. They were kind of messed up there because they were letting people teach when they wanted instead of when the students needed the classes. 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:53.144 Like we were here-- 00:34:53.144 --> 00:38:38.664 --it was crazy. It was worse, trust me. And the catalog didn't reflect any of it. The catalog said these courses are offered in the winter quarter and the spring quarter. Where are these classes? And this was the period 2009-11. So this was the economic tank, and we were furloughed periodically. Four days a week in the summer kind of thing. And so it--the budget was horrible. I had to manage a budget where basically I had no lecturer budget for one quarter. How was I gonna' do that? The lecturers--and of course, you have to follow all the union rules, but the lecturers all came to me and they said, We are willing to, we're gonna' put it in writing, but we're all willing to take a cut in our hours because we want this lecturer to have enough units for insurance 'cause his wife has cancer. I mean, they really cared. The lecturers there were fantastic. They were such an amazing group of faculty, and they worked so hard. They worked really hard. So Pomona was a hard time because of the budget. And I was constantly managing expectations because people just weren't used to not having the funds. I mean, they had consistently over enrolled and--I mean under enrolled and gone over budget. And so we had to straighten that out, and I learned to work with the unions really well at Pomona. I also--but then I was on a search committee at Pomona in the fall--was it in the winter or the spring? Spring of 2010 or fall of 2010. I can't remember now--for the Dean of Engineering. And at the time, I think it was Storbeck/Pimentel that was running the search. And Sharon Tenabe was leading it. And she pulled me aside after the first meeting when we all met, the search committee. She goes, why aren't you a dean? And I said because I'm earning my stripes. I have to be a chair. She goes, I'm gonna' keep you in mind. So sure enough, she called me in January of 2011 and said at Cal State San Marcos, they've restructured Academic Affairs. They've created a College of Science and Mathematics, and they're looking for a founding dean. And she says, I think you'd be perfect for the job. I'm like--that was like a dream because how often--that's a once in a lifetime opportunity where you get tapped to basically take a new college from scratch and build it and work with people to build it. And so I said, Okay. And I didn't really see myself at Pomona much longer. It was, I just--being chair is like being a mini provost in a way. It was bizarre. Anyway, it was a hard job, and I was really ready to be a dean. And if I wasn't gonna' be a dean, then I was just gonna' retreat back to the faculty and I was gonna' work with my grants 'cause I had a bunch of funding. I had some collaborations on remote instruments with USC. Anyway, I interviewed, and I got the job. And what's interesting is my other half is not always impressed by campus environments in the United States, but a week before the on-campus interview, I said, Let's take a drive down to San Marcos to take a look. And we drove through campus, we walked around and looked at the area and he's like, You gotta get this job. This is a fantastic place. And so I worked hard to get the job. And that's how I ended up as Dean at San Marcos. 00:38:38.664 --> 00:38:47.000 And what was CSU San Marcos like when you first arrived? You talked about the splitting of the college and the new structure. 00:38:47.000 --> 00:39:20.000 The College of Arts and Science--which at one point had become 85% of the FTE (full time enrollment) and the budget--was split. And there was a smaller piece, the larger piece. And a little bit of it was peeled off and merged with the College of Education, I believe. But anyway, we ended up College of Science and Math (CSM) with--now I gotta go back and figure out all the departments that were there. I think it's five, five or six departments. Let's see. We have biology, chemistry, biochemistry, math, physics. Am I missing somebody? I'm missing somebody. 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.000 Well, the-- 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.221 --computer science. 00:39:21.221 --> 00:39:22.000 Yeah. Mm-hmm. 00:39:22.000 --> 00:44:46.000 Okay. And ultimately engineering. So we had this college, and I had a lot of experience from two other campuses on how things run or how they don't run. Because Fullerton was a well-oiled machine. Pomona, not so much. Their heart was in the right place, but they often made exceptions to things that kind of created some problems. So we could start--I had to learn what structures existed because some of these structures that existed here, which were related to governance and had a history--they didn't exist on other campuses. And people were saying, You gotta get rid of these things. I said, No, they mean something here. You can't just change an entire campus culture. And believe me, nobody at San Marcos wants to be Cal State Fullerton. And some of them were afraid that that's what I was gonna' turn it into. I said, I don't wanna' turn you into Cal State Fullerton. That's a cautionary tale (laughter). Not that Fullerton doesn't have great things, but one size doesn't fit all. And the faculty were already very skittish. I mean, they wanted the college, but there was a lot of apprehension because this was a big shift. And they were being split from their colleagues, who were in the other half. Now, the other half--which Adam Shapiro was hired to be Dean at that time--largely went on as it did because it was still big. All the structures that had previously existed worked for a college that size. They wouldn't work for CSM. And so I sat--I actually scheduled a retreat with the governance, with the chairs--was it the chairs or the governance committee? The chairs, yeah, the chairs--before I officially started. And we cranked out our mission statement and our core values, and that's how we started the college. That's what we based it on. And then initially I had to learn--the governance committee was very leery of the dean for historical reasons, not all of which I still understand, but they were kind of keeping me in an arm's length. And I realized I was trying to collaborate with them. But to them, that was invading their space. And so I just had to take a step back. So we kind of had a rough period for the first few months. And then we got a big donation in the spring, which I wanted to use to help fund now the awards that they have, which are fantastic. But that kind of went counter. The faculty really wanted to develop their own awards not just have something canned. And so what we did with that money is we--I said, Well, here's what we could do. I said, You know, we kind of hit this rocky period, but let's start fresh. Let's have a conversation. Everybody says we wish we'd done this sooner. I said, So do I. We didn't, but now we are. And I said, what can we do with this? I said, I've noticed there's a hundred students doing research every summer. How are they supported? Does anybody know they're doing research? Well, not really. I said, Okay. So that's how what became Summer Scholars started. We funded--we started funding students doing research that first summer. And it just grew from there 'cause ViaSat chipped in, and now I'm sure there's other industry sponsors and grants that fund it. But that's how Summer Scholars got started. And we kind of got the jitters out of our system for that first year because people got to know me. What complicated things is that summer before I started as Dean, I was still very active at the National Academy (of Sciences). I was chair of the US National Committee for Crystallography. And every three years, the International Union of Crystallography has a conference, a meeting in general assembly. And it was in Madrid. And so I talked to the provost and I said, Maybe I shouldn't go. She says, No, no, you need to go because you have our name on your badge. You need to go. So I went to Madrid. The associate dean, who was Graham Oberem was kind of overseeing things while I was gone, and we were on the phone all the time. There were some hiccups with things. So I missed convocation. So nobody saw me the first day of the semester, which is bad. So then I got back, and we were going to have our college convocation on a Friday, and that was the great San Diego blackout, where everything went dark. So nobody saw me then either. And of course, the semester started. And although I went around to the departments, really the only time everybody saw me in a group setting was when we had our holiday party. So I got off to a start where people didn't really know who I was. It was that lack of familiarity that was causing problems and not knowing what I was going to do or what I was like. And also nobody had been fully informed of the arrangements that had been made when I came here to bring the center and other things. Which subsequently I said, Look, I realize now you all didn't know all this, so let's talk about it. So when the second year started, we came out of the gate like a racehorse, and we never looked back. And I got very emotional at that first commencement. 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.264 Yeah. 00:44:48.264 --> 00:45:09.184 I started talking and my voice was really deep. And the development officer assigned to us at the time, it was Kelly Briggs goes, It's okay. It was endearing. We know you were emotional, but anytime--even whether it's dean or provost to stand at the podium at a commencement still gets me to this day. 00:45:09.184 --> 00:45:12.000 So about ten years you were dean at CSUSM. 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:13.000 Nine. 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.164 Nine years. So-- 00:45:16.164 --> 00:45:21.934 I stayed longer than most do because I had started something that I wanted to finish on my resume. 00:45:21.934 --> 00:45:26.000 Let's talk about that. Let's talk about those highlights and that, that big thing. 00:45:26.000 --> 00:51:34.000 When I got here, what was really nice is the--I mentioned Kelly Briggs. Kelly was very seasoned as a development officer 'cause she worked at Jacobs School of Engineering at University of California, San Diego). So she started taking me on the tour around the county to meet people. You gotta meet the new dean of the new college, all this stuff. And I think I can summarize the sentiment by paraphrasing the late Duane Roth, who was the CEO of CONNECT. I--we met with him in his office in UTC (University Town Center). And we sat down and he says, Thank God you're here. When are you gonna' have an engineering program? I mean, this is what he said. And of course, I had talked to Karen (Haynes) and to Emily (Cutrer)--President Haynes. And I said--she said, I never said we weren't gonna' have an engineering program. She said, When I got here, I said, not yet, Because she knew that the campus wasn't ready for that. But she laid the groundwork because I reread her convocation address from 2010. So the campus was 20 years old then. And she talked about how the restructuring was intended to lay the groundwork for the future of the campus. And I knew she knew that you had to have a separate college of science and math to have an engineering program. 'Cause I think--I don't know--the founding faculty may know this, but I have heard rumors that the original plans of the campus had a college of engineering--science and engineering. But the founding faculty felt the region wasn't ready for it yet. And they preferred letters and science, which I can understand. But anyway, so now we have this. So it's 2011, 2012. I know by this point, the faculty are really leery about engineering, especially the physics faculty. They're afraid of what's gonna' happen to their program 'cause they had this beautiful applied physics program with the electronics option, and--which looks a lot like electrical engineering. I knew they were very apprehensive. And, of course, we were going through budget problems then because we had a deficit in academic affairs we had to close. And it would take a few years to do that. We eventually did in a way that was probably the best way to do it. But it meant taking more students in which this faculty were a little upset about. But we closed the gap. So now we fast forward to 2014. And in 2014, we were in the silent phase of the comprehensive campaign, and it was gonna' go public. So I sat down with then Provost Oberem--which is another interesting professional relationship, which I highly commend him for because he was the associate dean when I was the dean. And then he became my boss. So that was interesting. But anyway, we talked, and I said, Now's the time to strike. I said, We need to do this. We need to follow the lead that Bakersfield did--get grants to launch this program. We have to engage the faculty, and we've gotta engage the industry to know which programs are most needed. And the best way to--and all eyes are gonna' be on the campus now--this comprehensive campaign, our 25th birthday, everybody's looking at us. Now's the time. He goes, Okay. So that's how we started. I started making the rounds of all the departments, talking to them on a regular basis, finding out what they liked about it, what concerned them about it. And I was constantly framing my conversation in the structure of Simon Sinek's Golden Circle. You know, here's the why. I mean, I know everybody wanted a building, which we now have, but you don't do this to get a building. Why are you doing this? Because the community needs the talent, and there's not enough of it in the region. They're looking to us to support them. And then the how--how we're gonna' do it. And then the what--the value added we get. We get accredited programs, and we get building. So I went around several times. We engaged a grant writing firm to help us write the grants to the Department of Education. We had faculty who were actively engaged in that. We had a meeting where we brought in the industry to give us their input. So I really--it was a community effort. Everybody had a stake in this. And then the piece that I'm deeply humbled by was that we needed a faculty member to head the grant and with sufficient academic credentials that they could do it. And the one person in physics that we felt could do it was Gerardo Dominguez. And he was very apprehensive because he had a research program--he still does--with lots of students. But I said, But Gerardo, this is what the program needs. It needs the street creds and you have them. And I said, You'll have a lot of support because you've got the dean's office and the associate dean. And he agreed to do it. He was very apprehensive. He goes, Let me think about it. And then he called me on a Sunday night and he said, I'll do it because it's a legacy. So anyway, that's how that whole--that all rolled out. And then the faculty were still having hiccups about budget and enrollment and kept writing memos to me and the provost, and we would sit down and patiently iron it all out. The one department that was resistant at the end--oh, we thought humanities would be resistant because, and they, We don't care, that generates GE (general education FTE), we're fine. You know? Okay. 'Cause I was worried what was gonna' happen in Senate, you know? And so the one department that was still concerned was biology. They were concerned about budget 'cause they have a big program. And I said, You have no concerns. I said, This is not gonna' take enrollment away from you in any way. And the enrollments of this program are supported with other funds. You're not gonna' lose anything. So we finally convinced them. And then when the vote went through in the Senate, it was unanimous. And I practically cried in the Academic Senate (laughter) when it happened. So-- 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:35.385 --I remember that day. 00:51:35.385 --> 00:52:11.144 And it's something I really appreciate about this campus is how engaged the faculty are in curriculum. Because this approval process we have for curriculum doesn't exist on all of other campuses. It exists at Fullerton, but it doesn't exist at Monterey Bay. It's just, they just do things differently. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I just really like this approach because everybody has a stake in what's happening. And that means that it has a great--I think it has a greater chance of success. And it does. 00:52:11.144 --> 00:52:30.525 So any other highs and lows while you were dean here at CSUSM or--'cause you talked about some highs and lows already--but any other ones? But also just your impressions, other impressions of the campus just given that time from 2010-2020. 00:52:30.525 --> 00:53:22.795 Well, I can honestly say--and this is not a slight to Fullerton or Pomona or Monterey Bay--but this was the best academic gig I ever had, hands down. The people, the place--it had its problems. At times we had challenges. What institution doesn't have challenges? But everything--to use the cliches, the planets were aligned laughter). The vibes were right. It was just a good experience. I wasn't here during the pandemic, but I--looking from the outside, I think that that's solid foundation--sorry, my voice is getting deep 'cause I'm crying. That solid foundation is what helped San Marcos keep going. 00:53:22.795 --> 00:53:31.000 So let's take a deep breath. And you left San Marcos just very shortly after March 2020. 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:32.000 Yeah. 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:35.000 So Let's talk a little bit about-- 00:53:35.000 --> 01:01:10.000 So career trajectory at that point was, I was thinking for the last few years--once engineering was started or approved--that I wanted to be a university president. And everybody said, You've got the skill sets you need to do it. Mentors would say, You're a scientist and you're logical, but you have soft skills. So okay. But--and even though professionally they say, Oh yeah, you can jump from dean to president because the dean job is closer to being like a president on a grander scale. But the reality was you can't. Unless it's a small private institution, the rules still were you've gotta jump, you've gotta go through all the hoops. And that meant provost. And so I started looking at provost jobs. This was about 20--I think I started in 2018. And now I also need to interject some personal stuff here. So my mother had had a massive stroke in 2016, which made me kind of also step back from doing anything professionally 'cause I didn't know what was gonna' happen. And she was in skilled nursing. Jose Mendoza was in my office when I got the phone call about that. And I just had the chair meeting, and I said, Sorry, gotta go. So anyway, she was in skilled nursing, but I realized after those two years or so that she kind of reached a point where there was not gonna' be any more upward trajectory. It was a daily--it's sad to say this and I don't mean to be cold--but every day I was just waiting for a phone call. My brother was living with my father at the time. And so I knew my father had somebody to take care of him and drive him to see my mother 'cause my father's health was starting to decline also. He was having mini strokes. And I could also see some cognitive decline, which worried me because that ultimately leads to things that happened later. So I started experimenting with provost jobs, and I was very competitive. I believe that in 2018--it was 2018 or '19, that timeframe--I'd applied to one of the Cal State campuses just as a test. And I'd also applied out of state. I thought, oh, it'll be an adventure to live outside of California. And I was a finalist. So this must have been '18, '19. But I'd also been nominated for a presidency somewhere--a couple of places actually. And now I thought, well, also one of the Cal State campuses--this was the period when there was all of this ruckus about and people were upset about the changes in the GE (general education) requirement and the units, and faculty were not happy, there were protests. And so because institutions didn't want candidates visiting during things like that, they suspended searches. So there was a delay in this search where I was a finalist, and then I was nominated for these presidencies, which I really wanted. So I told the search firm, I said, Look, I'm gonna' gamble, but I can't be in a provost search and a president search because people are gonna' look at this and think, what are you doing? So I backed out of that search, and I did not get interviewed for the presidential searches. And I think it was also because I hadn't been a provost. I hadn't been at the VP level. That was it. But I was a finalist for this other provost position out of state. And I was gearing up to interview for that. It was in a more rural part of the country, and getting around was kind of cumbersome. You'd have to fly here, fly there, rent a car, do this, whatever. And as I was arranging my trip--'cause this campus had three branch campuses and they wanted me to visit all of them in this trip--my father had also had an incident where he'd fallen. He was okay, but the doctor said, But he's fallen more than once 'cause we see evidence of it in the scans. And I'm like, oh geez. And I realized I couldn't--if I needed to get back for an emergency, I couldn't get back fast enough. And so I decided I had--I just said, For personal reasons, I have to back out of the search. They were very disappointed, but okay. But then I started applying. I had like a dozen, and I interviewed for--I was a finalist in nine, I think. So now we roll to the pandemic. So I mentioned--at the end of the year, in '19--at the end of the year, Bernhard and I always had a holiday party for the academic affairs team. And we got together and I knew what I was up to, and I was sitting there and I couldn't tell any of you, but I was looking at all of you thinking, well, this is the last time we're all gonna' be together. So now January comes, and we start hearing about Covid, and it's getting worse. I'm interviewing at places, and I remember my last interview was on March 9th. So I flew back. This is already--Covid is going--I flew back on the 10th. Now I get--and I have an offer letter from one of the institutions I interviewed already that I have to have signed by March 21st or March 20th, whatever, 20th? Yeah. Anyway, and then two other places I'd applied had put their searches on hold. So I thought. well then this is the one. This was high on my list. This was Monterey Bay. So I signed my offer letter on Saturday, and we went dark on Tuesday. And President Ochoa at Monterey Bay wanted me to start working with him ahead of time to help with Monterey Bay shutting everything down. But at the same time, I have to shut down the college here. Right. And the worst part was that I had to tell everybody I was leaving on Zoom. I couldn't do it at our regular college assembly because we couldn't meet face to face. That hurt me so much. And Zoom--it's worse because you could see everybody on the screen. And when I said, I'm leaving, the shock on everybody's face just really got--so anyway, I had to tell them on Zoom. And so then I'm helping all--we're on Teams--I'm helping the chairs get everything they need to do labs remotely, all this. I'm immersed in that. And then one day, a week I'm meeting with Eduardo (Ochoa) on Zoom about Monterey Bay. And then--very astute thing he recommended--he said, I know we're all working remotely, but he said, it would really be good if you were up here. He said--I think because faculty and staff largely live on campus--he said, For them to see you means they know you're part of the team. And he was right. So I relocated. We had a search process in the college for the next, for the interim dean. And Jackie was appointed. She had the experience and the spirit to do it. And then I took the last two weeks--I took some vacation in June because I couldn't take all my vacation with me (laughter). I could cash out some of--I cashed out some of it, took some. 01:01:10.000 --> 01:10:00.000 So I moved up to Monterey on July 4th, 2020. And we're all in the throes of the pandemic at this point. But driving into campus, to east campus housing, people are out in the yard, they're waving. It was right. We had a sense of community. And I ended up renting a house next to the president, which helped 'cause we could meet in the backyard and talk shop. So that was my first month at Monterey and trying to keep the faculty center going and the training going and summer school online, working with the vice president of student affairs to make sure we had laptops for everybody in the fall. So all of this is going--six weeks in, so it's the middle of August--August 16th. That's the day that all the wildfires broke out, and I got a phone call at 11:45 that my mother passed away. But apparently they were supposed to call me and my brother first. They called my father, and my father didn't know what was going on and said call me. So they call me. So now the adrenaline kicks in again. And I have to get on the phone to take care of all of that logistics. And my brother and I ultimately arranged for a funeral--pandemic funeral--online. You know, how do you, how do you prepare for things like that? You're doing things on Zoom around the house. Anyway, we had a funeral for my mom. We were able to do it with ten people, six feet apart with masks. And so the semester was starting then, and we had convocation the next day, too. The fires are burning. And we had convocation. Two members of my academic affairs leadership team had lost their homes. The president wants to know if we can even have classes. So I'm calling around. Faculty are all in place. They're in hotels, where they had to be evacuated. Students have laptops. Three days in a student emails me, says, Dr. K, the fire came through our house. I'm okay. My family's okay, but my laptop's covered in fire retardant, can you get me another one? And he sends me this picture, and I swear everything's pink, and I called the VP for student affairs. I said, Get this kid a laptop. So things went smoothly for that first few weeks and then in October (2024)--but we had budget problems. And I'll be frank, I was really starting to question whether I'd made the right decision to go up there or not. There were just some things that were--I had some different perspectives on things. But anyway, I cared about the students a lot. They were wonderful students up there. And I felt an affinity for the area because when my father came to the United States after World War II, he was granted asylum and recruited by the Army and Military Intelligence because of his language skills. And he was based in Fort Ord and taught at the Defense Language Institute. So every day I drove through campus, I thought of my dad. There was a whole closeness to my dad. He was still alive at the time. Anyway, October comes, and I don't want to get into the details, but things happen that you don't wish on your worst enemy. And to cut to the chase, the Vice President for Student Affairs had to go on a leave of absence. The AVPs (Associate Vice Provosts) that reported to me are both texting me at 6:30 in the morning 'cause they're seeing this thing in the newspaper. And they're like, What do you think the President's gonna' do? And I said, What do you think he's gonna' do? So Monterey Bay is a small campus compared to San Marcos. So you can only do this on a small campus ; otherwise you would be in a funny farm. Eduardo called me and he said, I need to appoint an interim VP for Student Affairs. What do you think I should do? And I said, Well, you've got an AVP (Associate Vice President) for Student Affairs. But he didn't feel comfortable doing that for some reason. I don't know why. I had worked with the AVP and found them to be very competent. But anyway, he says, Well, I'm gonna' appoint you (laughter). And I said, Why? I said, Well, I can do it, but why? He goes, well, because it'll help you learn the campus much faster because now you'll be in the other division. But he said, I'm gonna' give Housing to the CFO (Chief Financial Officer). So you won't have Housing, but you're gonna' have the student--you're gonna' have--so basically, I went from having twelve direct reports to twenty-four. And I did that for five months. It was a good experience. I learned so much. I was, A, I discovered some budget problems with the new student union we had to rectify, so I worked with the CFO to do that. I realized that we needed to realign some things in the divisions for more--to be more effective. And so I proposed some restructuring, which we had nearly completed when I left. Because the new President put everything on hold, which is not unexpected. Then we hired an interim VP. I got the campus to use The Registry (firm focused on placing senior interim leaders in higher education) a lot because we had to appoint--I felt badly for the colleges 'cause we had a lot of interim deans. It was like a revolving door for a couple of years 'cause two deans had gone on to be provost, we had interims, and then we had searches, and then we had more interims. And it was quite complicated. So I was doing a lot of managing people, expectations, emotions, managing change. It helps--I'm an empath, an empathic person. So being an empath is a two-edged sword. I could see the world through their eyes and anticipate what was going to bother them or upset them and do what it took to help ease people's minds. But on the other hand, I'd also know when I had to make hard decisions, and I knew people were gonna' be upset about and that I don't like to upset people. But anyway, so that was that whole first year. And, of course, then we were getting--we were running vaccines on campus through the parking lots and everything else. And then drive up, get a vaccine. And then I said, We really need to do something for commencement. So following the lead of San Marcos, we did a car-mencement (drive-through commencement) in the big lot--AT&T lot that we have at Monterey Bay. And it was--some of the administrators didn't like it, but the students and the parents just got such a kick out--and the faculty were all lined up in the parking--everybody just really enjoyed it. And then the following year we did the make-up commencements and stuff. But by this point--and I had calculated that I would be a provost for maybe two years before I moved on and did something, either become a president or retire because I had a lot of time on the clock in the CSU. Eduardo had decided that he was gonna' retire. He just felt it was time. He'd been President ten years. He and his wife loved to travel, and they just wanted to do other things. And then-Chancellor Joe Castro wanted him to announce early, 'cause several campuses were doing presidential searches, and they wanted them all hired like by mid-spring, which, when you think about it, is a daunting task. Especially when nobody is told what's happening, which is worrisome. So he announced. That upset the whole campus because the campus was just now opening up and getting together. So when people are meeting face-to-face, it becomes gripe sessions 'cause they're just upset about everything. And I'm trying to calm people's minds. And then we had the make-up commencements and Eduardo was seriously contemplating just stepping down and handing it to me. And I'm like, no, don't do that. You need to stick it out until July. And there's a presidential search going on at Monterey Bay, too. And I felt that I would better serve the campus as its provost not its president and onboard--be there to support as an experienced provost. But whenever there's a transition at that level, there's a fifty-fifty chance that the leadership team is rotated out. So I didn't expect that I would stay, I didn't expect that I'd go. I just--every day was a--and we had recruitments starting and whatnot. Commencement comes, and Eduardo had Covid. So I got to fulfill my dream as an administrator in that I presided over commencement, and I conferred degrees. It was funny because I was reading the script and I'm--as Provost, I present you, and as President, I confer--no, it was kind of fun. But again, standing there at the podium was just this emotional experience that I can't describe. It was just great to do that. So I had done everything there is to do really. 01:10:00.000 --> 01:16:29.000 So new President came, I'm trying to help her with the campus. But being Provost was--oh, so then I forgot to mention one thing. My father passed away in the middle of all of this in 2021 before Eduardo retired. And so I had to deal with that. It was not unexpected, but the decline was really fast. We had learned in the last year-and-a-half of his life that he had leukemia. And it was an untreatable form, so the blood transfusions just couldn't come fast enough at the end. We didn't tell him. He was kind of senile. And a couple of times he'd asked my brother, Am I dying? And my brother would say, Not today. But anyway, my father passed. Three months before he passed, I realized he still hadn't gotten all his estate affair planning in order. And I really started pushing. And I managed in June, on a Sunday, to get all the paperwork filed. His will, the trusts, all of this stuff. And my father went in the hospital the following Thursday and never came out. He had pneumonia, he'd aspirated something, he got pneumonia. So two weeks later, we get a notice that there's something wrong with the paperwork, and of course, my father's not in any condition to sign anything anymore. Apparently he'd signed two forms where his signature was below a line instead of above a line, and the courts accepted one but not the other. And I'm telling this 'cause anybody who's watching this, I know more about estate planning than you ever want to know and the mistakes that can happen. But to cut to the chase, he had a trust with nothing in it because the quit claim deed for the house didn't get filed. So what do you do? So he passed away. We had the funeral, and we were able to have a normal funeral with people, although people still felt uncomfortable gathering in large groups, so we didn't have a luncheon after that. And then everything went into probate. So in December of twenty-one, January of twenty-two, everything went into probate except what he had designated as accounts for--beneficiaries for accounts and things. So most of it. And including the house went into probate. And I was still up in Monterey. All the turmoil of the presidential change is happening. My brother, who I love dearly, was overwhelmed and just couldn't keep on top of things with the probate. And when we got a letter from the court that as executors, we were gonna' be removed if we didn't take care of something, I said, You've gotta take care of this. So he goes, well, the attorney said everything was fine. And, you know, when did you last talk to the attorney? Oh, like three months ago. So it turns out the attorney who was handling the case had some health issues and had forgotten to file a status report. And we didn't know. So I realized I'm too far away now to handle this. I used to come down during the pandemic about every two months to check on things. And then when things opened up, I would schedule those trips when I went to the Chancellor's office for the provost meeting so I was not gone from campus too much. But this was really getting hard. The stress was really started--between professional stress of a provost and the personal stress, it was really starting to pile up. I mean, I have to be on call 24/7, and anytime a notification went off on my phone, it was like I'd shoot ten feet in the air. It was like PTSD. So at Christmas in December of twenty-two, I really started to look at the time I'd spent and what was happening and you know, family matters, and I thought, no. I think it's time that I just retire. And I decided that I was gonna' retire no later than the end of the calendar year, twenty-three. But as the year started, I thought, you know what? I have--this is a do as I say, not as I do for anybody in the CSU. I'd accrued 1062 hours of unused sick time. Sick leave. That was six months of sick leave I never used. So that added to my service credits. I probably should have taken some of that sick leave. So I decided I'm gonna' retire in June of twenty-three. So at the end of June in twenty-three, I retired. And again, I had to do it on Zoom, not because we couldn't meet face-to-face, but because we were doing on-campus interviews of candidates and the Provost's conference room was booked. All the conference rooms in the building were booked. So I had to call a last-minute meeting with my staff on Zoom, and I had to tell them I was leaving on Zoom. And it was just déjà vu. It brought back all the pain from here (CSUSM). And yet, I could hear them outside my office 'cause they're outside my office, and I can hear them mumbling and grumbling, and my assistants start crying, and it was really hard. So anyway, I retired at the end of June twenty-three and moved back. I told myself I'd give myself three-to-six months to kind of adjust. I'm also helping my brother clear out our parents' house because we have to sell it to pay the bills--the legal fees and stuff. So that was hard. But it was a walk down memory lane going through things. My parents' garage was like a museum, literally. So we cleaned out the house. We sold it in October. My brother is living with me at the moment until probate ends because then he can get on with his life hopefully. And I can get him back on his feet. 'Cause I'm indebted to him. He took care of my parents for probably ten years 'cause they were in decline. They just didn't--nobody realized it, but they were really declining. So six months went by, got a handle on the probate, realized what I needed to do to de-stress, if you will. Took up my passions again. I love to cook, as I said. So cooking, I have--we bought our house because of the kitchen. So I cook. When we cleaned out the house, I didn't take furniture except a dining set that I'd helped my mother buy years ago, and I reupholstered the chairs. So I did some reupholstery. We also had an heirloom in the house that was a child's rocking chair that my grandfather had made 'cause he was a carpenter. I reupholstered the chair, and I gave it to my godson's son for his first birthday. And my grandfather's his great-great grandfather. So he has the rocking chair. So I'm into furniture upholstery. And then I've recently started making jewelry. 01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:30.000 Nice. Beaded jewelry-- 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:40.000 --So I'm doing--beaded, wire, all kinds of stuff. So yeah, I'm tapping the artistic side that I had put aside. 01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:44.000 Did you have--through all this time--did you have hobbies? 01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:45.000 Well, I used to sew. 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:46.000 Okay. 01:16:46.000 --> 01:18:40.000 Photography was a hobby for many years when we needed the big fancy digital cameras. I still have my Cannon camera in the cupboard, but you know, what we've got on our cell phones is pretty good. And photography was something that my brother and I shared with my dad 'cause he was really into photography. And we're so grateful to him 'cause he took pictures of everything growing up. We have boxes of slides, videos, movies. Twenty years ago when we had a reunion of our youth group, my brother and I made a commemorative DVD with all this stuff. That same youth group just met in September--fifty-five years since our first Halloween party as a church youth group--and we watch those things again. So, yeah, photography. Bernard and I like to hike, although he likes to do the more rugged extreme things, whereas I like calm and easygoing stuff. Let's see. Oh, gardening. I inherited a green thumb from my grandmother. And Bernard likes to garden and watch things grow. So we made a little garden bed in our yard, and this summer I decided to go all out so I grew a lot of tomatoes and pepper. I told people when I retired, What are you gonna' do? I'm gonna watch the tomatoes grow. That's what I did this summer. I watched toma--I had all these different varieties of tomatoes and peppers grow, herbs. So I still have my garden. Indoors, I have aero gardens--hydroponic aero gardens. So I grow a lot of herbs in the house. Or I start them, and then I take them outside. And then the most recent thing I've been doing, and I've gotten--Janet Powell started on me that as a matter of fact--is I grow mushrooms. From kits, of course. Yeah. But I grow mushrooms. Lion's mane, oyster. Yeah. 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:57.000 So you've talked a lot about your accomplishments in your career. Do you have one or two things that you feel have been most impactful? You talked about the lab at Fullerton. 01:18:57.000 --> 01:19:09.000 There's two things, and I would say from the faculty years, it was the core facility at Fullerton. And from the administrative years it's growing, doubling the size of the college while I was Dean and getting the engineering programs launched. 01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:11.000 Okay. 01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:18.000 And meeting the faculty I recruited at the groundbreaking of the building. It's like, man, I'm proud of you people. Yeah. 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:25.000 Can you tell me about people who most influenced your work and your life? You talked some about that too, but that-- 01:19:25.000 --> 01:24:11.000 Yeah, that's a good question. Well, you know, it's funny, I have a career talk I've given where I have a, that's called A Chemist's Journey. And it's like on an energy curve. And there's one slide where I just have this collage of photos of people that have influenced me in my life. So I can rattle through that. I mentioned I wanted to be an astronaut. So John Glenn is on that slide. I wanted to be an oceanographer. Jacques Cousteau is on that slide. I love to cook. Julia Child is on that slide. George Bernard Shaw is on that slide because of the quote I've often used (adapted by Robert F. Kennedy), Some men see things as they are, and (ask) why. I dream things that never were and (ask), why not? That's my mantra. Who else is on that slide? But those are more celebrity types and things. Oh, Frank Shorter's on that slide. 'cause I was a runner for many years. I still run but on a treadmill. I don't do half marathons anymore. But I was a runner for many years. And I got started in running when I was at Daniel Murphy because faculty at Daniel Murphy were all asked to support two student groups as faculty. So I was the junior class advisor because I taught the juniors chemistry. So I got to do things like organize prom and stuff and Disneyland night. But I also had to support athletics. And so I supported the track team because who goes to watch the track meets? So that's how I got into running. So supporting the track meets. But professionally, I had a faculty member at Fullerton who was also a physical chemist, John Olmstead, who I still keep in touch with. He was also department chair for a while. He chaired the search committee that hired me. But he was a good colleague who gave me a lot of professional advice about how to navigate the system. He knew it well. One of the women on the faculty, Barbara Finlayson-Pitts, who ultimately moved over to UC (University of California) Riverside, or no, UC Irvine. She was a really stellar atmospheric chemist. But she was able to give me a lot of professional advice as a woman in the field about how to navigate the rules and if people just blow you off, this is what you do kind of thing. So she was a good--gave me good advice about my personnel file and how you make work order requests and get things done through the system. So I think at Fullerton those were a couple of people that gave me a lot of advice. And then at Pomona, of course, Don Straney was and still as a mentor of mine. He recruited me as a dean. He went on to be the chancellor at Hawaii Hilo. But he really knew the ins and outs of administration. He--what I really appreciated in him was we knew changes had to be made, and he had my back as a department chair. Whether you're a chair or dean, you need to know somebody has your back. And I was fortunate that he had my back. At San Marcos, I'd say the people that have given me really good advice have been President (Karen) Haynes. She was a mentor. And when things were a little rocky, she goes, I can't figure this out. We gotta figure out what's wrong 'cause you're doing all the right things. And it turns out it was this information gap. That people didn't know something, and I didn't know they didn't know something. And then you mentioned Graham. Graham gave me a lot of good advice when he was the Associate Dean 'cause he'd been here for a long time, and he really knew the ins and outs of the institution. But when he became Provost--because he was a familiar face to take on that role, and I understand that. He and I had a professional relationship that we needed to navigate because roles had kind of been reversed. And so we went and had lunch at Mr. Taco and just said How--and we did. We just sorted out how we were gonna' deal with things. And he was a really good mentor, and I knew I could talk to him And when we disagreed, we could disagree. And I could tell him why, and he'd tell me why, and we'd reach compromises and sort out things. So for a while with engineering, he wanted to move really fast. And I have all--people said, No, we need to stay this slow because the faculty need to be in it and they need to get--they need to dot all their I's and cross all their T's. It'll get done. And it did. So I would say also he was a good mentor, but Karen really was a good mentor, too. Still is a good mentor. 01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:18.000 So from people who have influenced you to yourself as a mentor--do you wanna' talk a little bit about--. 01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:20.000 --outside of academia or-- 01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:25.000 The way that you have mentored others in your career. 01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:33.000 Oh, that's a good question. 01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:36.000 And it could be intentional or unintentional. 01:24:36.000 --> 01:27:51.000 I can't--I don't think I can identify any one person as much as I identify with methods or approaches to mentoring that I have observed to be effective, which are, when you wanna' mentor somebody, you don't want it to come off like you're trying to fix them. That there's something wrong with them. It's not that there's something wrong with them, it's just that the way they've approached something isn't a match to what they need to do. Or if you sense that somebody has some lack of confidence, figure out why that is. And there's ways of overcoming that. It takes practice. I mean, in my case--and I read a lot, so I look at things online a lot of the time to see what approaches might work. And I do the LinkedIn training classes and stuff. But as an empath, one of the hardest things I have to deal with is not confrontation, but crucial conversations. Because I know if I'm--I can sense when somebody's gonna' get upset. It's hard for me to upset somebody. It's hard for me to make those tough decisions. So I usually--I have to take a day or two to prepare for things like that so that I'm in the right frame of mind to sit down with someone and say, Okay, look--here. So that's my strength and my weakness. So it's more approaches than anything else. You know, the Simon Sinek circles (The Golden Circle) was an approach I took. I do a lot of those leadership-type classes, so it's not necessarily I seek out one person, although when I'm confronted with something that is like, Okay, this is a fork in the road, which one do I take? Or what do you think about something I have--I don't wanna' mention them in a video, but I have a series of people that I will contact about certain things and just say, Okay, I need to bounce some ideas off of you, or give it to me straight. You have to have that. And you have to have different people, not one person. And when you get to the VP level or higher in administration, you've got to have a close-knit group of people that you know you can talk to each other because you have less, fewer people to talk to when you get to that level. When I was Provost, who do you talk to? You can't just go talk to faculty necessarily because it could be a conflict of interest. Anybody at the cabinet level would have that issue. So what was interesting in Monterey is sometimes--'cause we all lived in east campus--we'd go home and say, Okay, meet me at the corner at 5:30, and we'd go hike up into the Fort Ord Monument before it got dark. And we'd just talk out problems or challenges or what's bothering you or what do you think about this or that. So there were ways of doing that. And you know, if there were people in the cabinet who had some years ahead of me, I would seek advice from them. I didn't have to take it, but I'd say, What do you think about this? or What's your experience with this? I would talk to Eduardo sometimes about stuff. 01:27:51.000 --> 01:28:09.000 Okay. Well, we're nearing the end. Is there anything else you'd like to share in this interview that I haven't asked you about or that hasn't come up? 01:28:09.000 --> 01:31:49.000 Well I'll mention--I don't know why I wanted to mention this, but it's just a point of pride and again, it kind of defines who I am. I mentioned at the beginning of the interview the culture I grew up in and that I danced in a dance group. I still have costumes in my garage, which--and my cousin has now given me his battery of costumes. So now we're like, what do we do with all these things 'cause none of us dances professionally or semi-professionally anymore. But I mentioned that we performed at the Opening Ceremonies of the 1984 Olympics. So the story of that day--'cause that defines who I am, and I'll tell you why. We are all in--there were twelve of us in this dance group, and we had two changes of costumes for different regional dances. And so our director said, Okay, go find a buddy your size. So we have twenty-four people. So everybody found a buddy, and we were twenty-four people, and we had to go to rehearsals. So I was at UCLA at the time in grad school. So twice a week for a month before the Olympics, we'd have to go downtown to the Bonaventure Hotel in Los Angeles, grab a bus, they would take us to the Coliseum. They would literally just put boxes of green apples and Snickers bars in front of us. That was dinner. And then we had to learn the song we were supposed to perform at this event. We also got to do the dress rehearsal. So I knew what was happening for this opening ceremony before anybody else. And I invited--they said, You can invite some friends. So I invited all my lab mates from UCLA. They're like, wow. Anyway, the day of the event, we had to be there early and queue up. Now I had been to the Coliseum many times for football games 'cause I'm a graduate of USC and UCLA, but I'd never entered the Colosseum through the tunnel--the floor of the Coliseum. So they staged us all in the swim stadium, and it was 105 degrees that day. And Bulgarian costumes, if you've ever seen them, are wool. They're heavy knit wool. So the guys are sitting there in their wool pants with their socks off, put feet in the pool of the swim stadium. We're--got all socks off, we're trying to stay cool. Anyway, they line us up. There's two thousand people from Los Angeles in ethnic costume demonstrating the melting pot of Los Angeles, which I just loved the diversity of Los Angeles. And then all of a sudden, they have us part like the Red Sea, and Rafer Johnson comes running through with the torch. Or somebody came through running with the torch, was it Rafer Johnson? I can't remember now. But somebody came through with the torch and we're like, wow. And then they let us out on the field, and it was to Beethoven's Ode to Joy, which is one of my all-time favorite pieces of music. That and the seventh symphony. And so we go around the field--now when we rehearsed, none of the athletes were there. Now all the athletes are on the field except the former Eastern block. They all boycotted the games. 'Cause we boycotted Moscow, right? Yeah. So anyway, we walk out, we come around to our mark, we turn around, and we're right in front of the United States Olympic team. Bulgarian, American, United States Olympic team. We're trading hats, pins, pieces of our costume Our dance troupe leader's like don't give that away, don't give that away. And then beeline across the field, the team from Yugoslavia--what was Yugoslavia--sees us, and of course, the costumes are very similar. They come running over, we're taking pictures, all of this stuff. It was just, that was just a great evening. So I share that. Other than that, I will again just say that this was the best gig. I really loved it here, and I still love it here. 01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:56.000 Well, I want to thank you so much for interviewing with me today. I know you've made a big impact on my life and on this place. 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:58.000 And I'm sorry that (gestures to teary eyes)-- 01:31:58.000 --> 01:31:59.000 Please do not-- 01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:03.000 You get older, this happens more. So fair warning to people. 01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:05.000 Yes. But thank you so much. 01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:09.000 It's my pleasure. And I look forward to coming back when that building opens. 01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:12.000 That's right. 01:32:12.000 --> 01:33:34.000 So one more thing about the mentoring piece. Back to the mentoring piece. When I was dean here at Cal State San Marcos, for several years, I was a member of Athena San Diego, and Athena San Diego's mission is to promote women in STEM businesses and women in STEM. And there's fundraising events we've had, and also they do awards. I believe I won an award in 2018 for promoting diversity--I think. Innovation and diversity. Anyway, or it was innovation. That was it. Diversity was somebody at Qualcomm. That's right. It was innovation. I should know this. I still have the glass piece, which disappeared for a while. I kept calling Jackie--where's my award? Because when we had the pandemic, I had to put all my stuff in storage in the basement of one of the science buildings. But back to the mentoring. As part of Athena, we had a motto which was, We lift as we climb. And I think that's my philosophy of mentoring. As I'm able to go up--remember I said I wanted to change the rules. As I have the ability and the opportunity to rise up the ranks, I will help people come behind me. And so that's kind of that pay it forward of Immaculate Heart--women of great heart, you know? We're paying it forward for the next generations of women to move up. 01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:36.000 Thank you so much. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. 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Title
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Kantardjieff, Katherine. Interview November 18th, 2025.
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SC027-092
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2025-11-18
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video
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California State University San Marcos -- History
California State University San Marcos -- Administration
Education, Higher
Women in leadership
Women in science
Women chemists
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Los Angeles (Calif.)
Hollywood (Calif.)
Fullerton (Calif.)
Pomona (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Monterey Bay (Calif.)
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/52911d7addd704a9edefa535fc347af3.pdf
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Kantardjieff, Katherine. Interview transcript, November 18, 2025.
Description
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Dr. Katherine Kantardjieff, a chemist, retired from the California State University (CSU) system in 2023. Kantardjieff spent thirty-five years in the CSU system as a faculty member, department chair, dean, and provost. She served as the inaugural dean of the College of Science and Mathematics at California State University San Marcos (CSUSM) and spearheaded the creation of its engineering program. In this interview, Kantardjieff discusses her early years, her career as a woman scientist and administrator in the CSU, and the evolution of CSUSM during her time there.
Creator
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Katherine Kantardjieff
Contributor
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Jennifer Fabbi
Date
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2025-11-18
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
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Katherine Kantardjieff
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text
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KantardjieffKatherine_FabbiJennifer_2025-11-18_transcript
Subject
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California State University San Marcos -- History
California State University San Marcos -- Administration
Education, Higher
Women in leadership
Women in science
Women chemists
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Los Angeles (Calif.)
Hollywood (Calif.)
Fullerton (Calif.)
Pomona (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Monterey Bay (Calif.)