11 10 212 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jennifer Ho Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Randy Kim OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_access.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. community;immigration;Vietnam;Khmer Rouge;identity OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 6.0 Kim, Randy. Interview April 22nd, 2023. SC027-105 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible with generous funding from the CSUSM Faculty Center's Professional Development Grant. csusm community ; immigration ; Vietnam ; Khmer Rouge ; identity Randy Kim Jennifer Ho moving image KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/5b6cb7b7873b8aa283eabee6bee52d64.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Oral history interview of Randy Kim, April 22, 2023, by Jennifer Ho. 0 24 Family immigration and long-term effects Randy talks about his family, including his parents’ immigration stories and how they met, as well as what he knows of their early years in the United States. He speaks on the effect his parents’ struggles had on his own childhood. Lisle, Illinois ; Kuala Lumpur ; Amy M. Le ; political escape ; effects of war ; University of Illinois at Chicago ; Cambodia ; Vietnam ; Lockformer 0 1069 School years and influential adults In this segment, Randy talks about his personality as a child and how he navigated school, including the adults who had a positive effect on him. childhood ; isolation ; Mariah Carey ; Madonna ; Janet Jackson ; Smashing Pumpkins ; Red Hot Chili Peppers ; B-96 ; Sharon Nilan ; Roxanne Gaul ; Jean Hodek ; St. Paul, MN ; South Korea 0 1764 Language loss, communication and parental relationships Randy reflects on how his inability to speak Vietnamese or Khmer has had an effect on his relationships with the Vietnamese and Cambodian communities, and how this has changed through the years, partially due to his years he spent in Korea as an adult. He also speaks on his relationship with his parents. Vietnamese ; Khmer ; community expectations ; parental relationships ; Crying in H Mart ; Westmont (Chicago) ; Rogers Park (Chicago) ; Asia on Argyle ; Viet Hoa ; Tai Nam ; Ba Le ; i2i ; South Korea ; Tony Huynh 0 2822 Coming out Randy talks about when and how he came out as a gay man. coming out ; Ma and Me by Putsata Reang 0 3259 Queer Asian-American community, being seen Randy talks about his distant relationship with his parents. He then speaks on the queer Asian-American community and his friends in the community. He talks about how he would like to be seen. Kenneth Nguyen ; Nebula Li ; Lyk Yoeun ; Joy Messinger 0 3775 Banh Mi Chronicles Randy talks about why he started this podcast, his most memorable guests, and his plans for the future. Vietnamese Boat People podcast ; Self-Evident ; Asian-American Stories ; the Gay Asian Podcast ; Queer Asian Social Club ; Asian-American community ; activism ; Etzkorn Wong ; i2i ; Asian Americans Advancing Justice ; Chicago ; Christian Hall ; Nguyen Phan Que Mai ; Dust Child ; Cambodians in Vietnam ; Nhu Lan ; breaking bread ; banh mi ; BIPOC and LGBTQIA communities 0 4754 What does it mean to be Vietnamese American? Randy reflects on the question: What does it mean to you to be a Vietnamese American person? Vietnamese ; Cambodian ; identity 0 4902 Relationship with the Black community and reflections on present-day refugees Randy speaks on Asian and Black solidarity and its role in dismantling white supremacy. He also reflects on current refugee and asylum speakers. Black ; Blasian ; white supremacy ; Black and Asian Alliance Network ; Akemi Kochiyama ; Yuri Kochiyama ; Grace Lee Boggs ; Black Lives Matter ; Vincent Chin ; Jesse Jackson ; Rainbow Push Coalition ; Helen Zia ; AAPI ; Malcolm X ; Martin Luther King ; Thich Nhat Hanh ; Vietnam War ; Afghanistan ; Ukraine ; U.S./Mexico border 0 5454 Evolution of culture, nostalgia, grad school Randy thinks about the ways in which culture either stays intact or evolves with each generation. He also shares some of his favorite businesses in Chicago that have since closed. He then talks about his recent graduation from DePaul University and his current work. Tuan Huynh ; VietFive ; Trung Tin ; First Sip ; DePaul University ; nonprofit management ; YWCA Lisa Dietlin 0 5931 Cambodian and Vietnamese community Randy talks about his time on the board of the Cambodian Museum, as well as what his father did for 7,500 Cambodian refugees. He talks about the ways he is proud of his community and family, and why he appreciates himself and his own journey. National Cambodian Heritage Museum ; Khmer Rouge ; U.S. Embassy of Thailand 0 Oral history Randy Kim is a speaker, storyteller, podcaster and non-profit professional based in Chicago. In this interview, he talks about his life experiences as a queer Vietnamese-Khmer American, including his childhood, background, and creative work. Randy also speaks on his relationship with his family members and the people he has met who have impacted his life for the better.&#13 ; NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000  00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:17.000 Okay, today is April 22nd, 2023. I’m Jennifer Ho, interviewing Randy Kim for Children of Refugees, the Vietnamese American Oral History Project. We are in Chicago, Illinois and it is 2 o’clock. Thanks for being here, Randy. How are you? 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.000 Thank you. I’m doing wonderful. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:24.000 Good. All right. Let’s start from the beginning. Tell me when and where you were born. 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:30.000 So, I was born on (redacted) 1983. I was born in Lisle, Illinois. So, I was the first one born in the U.S. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.000 Oh, okay, great. Do you have siblings? 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:39.000 I do. I do have two younger brothers. They’re twins. And they were born in February 15th, 1986. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.000 Okay. Also in Lisle? 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.000 Yes. That is correct. 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.000 Okay, cool. Tell me about your family and the people who raised you. 00:00:46.000 --> 00:01:33.000 So, my parents came to the U.S. separately. They met in the U.S. My father escaped from Cambodia after the Khmer Rouge genocide, and he also had stayed over in Thailand in a refugee camp for a little bit and actually had worked on the refugee resettlement assistance with a lot of the survivors, many of the survivors of the Khmer Rouge. And for my mom, her family came to United States escaping out of Việt Nam (Vietnam) by boat. And they were living in Malaysia for a couple of years. So, I was–I was the first one born as a result of them meeting up in America. And so, yes. I don’t know if there’s any specific probing questions that you’re interested in about the way they raised me. 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.000 Maybe. But before we get to that, can I ask how they met? 00:01:37.000 --> 00:02:00.000 Um, I believe it was my mom’s father, which is my grandfather. And my grandfather and my dad worked together at a metal welding company. And so, my dad struck up a friendship with my grandfather. And so, my grandfather introduced my mom to my dad. So, that’s how they began. Yeah. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.000 Do you know how soon they got married after they met? 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:13.000 Um, not very long. I think it was a lot sooner. I gotta say it was less than a year. Because I think they got married in 1982. And I was born in ’83. 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:18.000 Okay. Okay. And where was this metal welding shop? 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:28.000 The metal welding company is in Lisle–Lisle, Illinois. And that’s actually—It was known as—It was called Lockformer. It’s a huge–It was a huge company at the time. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.000 Lockform? 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:47.000 Lockformer. Yeah. Lockformer. It’s L-O-C-K-F-O-R-M-E-R. So, yeah. This was a company he would be working for for thirty years until the plant shut down and moved to another state. 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.000 Okay. You told me how your dad came here. What about your mom? 00:02:51.000 --> 00:03:56.000 My mom’s family escaped by boat from Vietnam. They escaped overnight. I think my understanding was that since my grandfather was like in a position with the Vietnamese Army. I don’t know what ranking he was, but he was in the South Vietnamese Army. And so, that definitely made him a target. My uncle, who was my uncle by my—through marriage via my aunt, was in prison. He was in a reeducation camp for a number of years. So, I think that actually started to alarm the family that they needed to escape. So, they bribed someone and they left overnight when there was like a town hall meeting, I believe. I don’t remember the full, accurate picture, but that’s what led them to escape. And they would end up leaving into—landing into Malaysia. Kuala Lumpur is where they were at. And they were there for about three years until 1981, which is when they migrated to Illinois. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:00.000 Okay. What have your parents said about their trip? 00:04:00.000 --> 00:07:37.000 Um, you know, both of their journeys are so very different. I think for my dad it’s a very difficult topic for him to talk about because his escape out of Cambodia was deeply, deeply traumatic. You know, there was so much that he saw on his journey. I think when you go through this–this chaos, this indescribable chaos, you—or for my father, in this case, it’s like–it’s hard for him to talk about it unless he’s triggered. And when he’s triggered, that could come by when I’m arguing with him. Then that’s–that starts to come out in a very difficult way. And I–and I’ve had this conversation with him before, several years ago. And it was hard. I think it was a hard conversation and what he could share was that he talked about how it would take him days and nights to get through it. And how he came along with his friends who—or people that he met along the way. And then they escaped together. It was—I can’t remember—it was four or five men that he escaped with. But like they were basically walking through the nights in the jungle and staying set during the daytime because, you know, you don’t want to get caught. And there were land mines and there was just a lot of—It was very treacherous. And I think that they—My dad used to tell me the story that there was a snake that—And you know the interesting thing about that snake was that my dad was born in the year of the snake. So, I think it holds some significance. That snake was in his direction. And so, I think that prompted him to like go into a different direction where it would lead him into where he needed to escape to. Because for a while they were going into the same path, you know. They were walking and, you know, actually not advancing because they did not know where they were going. So, I think he would credit the snake for actually guiding him in that weird direc–in that direction. You know, for my mom I would say that there was not much of a description of what it was like in the boat, except that there were–it was very stormy. It was very turbulent. They were very worried about pirates which were very common, you know, from what I’ve been told. But it was a very dangerous path, and I don’t know if their boat was robbed. Because the reason why I bring this up is because I wrote–I read a book called Snow in Vietnam which is done by my friend Amy M. Lê (Amy M. Le), and she talked about how many of these–many of the boat people were robbed or harassed or assaulted. And I wondered if my mom and my aunt were assaulted at one point too, you know. So, I kind of wonder how deep and traumatic that journey was. And it’s a question that I don’t think I could ever ask because I don’t know if I could handle the answer to something like that. But I will say that the journey itself was very treacherous for them. And yeah. I think my mom was about in her early twenties. My dad was in his early twenties, too. So, certainly their–them entering into their twenties was a very turbulent time. 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:50.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I’m sure it was. Was there anyone else around when you were growing up? You had mom and dad. Any grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins? 00:07:50.000 --> 00:09:01.000 Good question. Let’s see. So, my mom’s side of the family was in Illinois for a very brief time and then they eventually moved down to Alabama because it was a big–there was a big seafood industry that was very attractive to a lot of southeast Asians. Some of my family members went to—or my aunt actually moved up to Boston with her husband, my uncle that is. And so, yeah. We did not have many family members in Illinois. So, when my parents couldn’t raise me, they actually had me raised with a babysitter who was from Peru. She was a Peruvian grandmother, you know, and, you know, very loving person. But she actually took me in while my parents were working. And so, I learned how to speak Spanish at a very young age which I really can’t do anymore. But that was the craziness of having every language thrown at you: English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Khmer. So, there was a lot going on, I think. But yeah. I did not have much of a family presence outside of my parents. 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:09.000 Okay. You mentioned your dad came over here, or he escaped from Cambodia with a few other men. What about his family back there? 00:09:09.000 --> 00:10:30.000 You know, his family—Like my dad’s side of the family actually lived in the southern part of Vietnam. And so, they escaped separately. And so, they ended up moving down to Florida. But yeah. It–yeah. Their escape was also traumatic, too. I mean there was—you know, being in Thai refugee camps where they landed was not a very pleasant experience, you know. Some of my cousins who went through the Vietnam war during that time, you know, they experienced some very traumatic experiences, you know, dead soldiers lying on the pathway to, you know, being mistaken for being Vietnamese because the Cambodians were, during the Khmer Rouge genocide, were coming into Vietnam, trying to reclaim part of their land back. Because that was part of Cambodia, below the Mekong Delta. And so, they had to very careful about that, even though their identity is ethnically Cambodian. There was confusion of who’s who. Are you Vietnamese or are you Cambodian? And so, that was also the danger that my dad’s family experienced. 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:36.000 Have you been in touch with any of the family who escaped from Vietnam on–from your dad’s side? 00:10:36.000 --> 00:11:17.000 Um, not very often, not very often. I do have an uncle, you know. I’ve been remembering that story, you know. I think that was a very challenging experience, to know what it was like to be in a Thai refugee camp. My aunt, his then-wife who, had passed on, my aunt, she went through a lot, you know, being in that Thai refugee camp, and just having experienced a lot of, you know, abuses there. And my cousins, they’re—my older cousins, they’re in their fifties now. And so, they have some vivid memories of it, and that was not very pleasant. 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:38.000 Mm-hmm. Do you feel like you—I mean you were obviously born here, in the American suburbs without having gone through any of those experiences yourself. Do you feel like you carry those stories with you? Like do you–have they affected you viscerally? 00:11:38.000 --> 00:14:44.000 That’s a great question. So, you know, I used to–I’ve asked myself this question many times. I think it has. I think that I see that trauma carry over into my life because, you know, the way my parents raised me was sometimes out of fear. It was out of paranoia. It was also out of irrationality. I don’t know if that’s a word. But it was not a very healthy way of raising me and my brothers with that frame, (makes a circling motion in the air with his left hand) with that mindset. And even though I’ve never lived through it, I feel like it–I feel like the history comes back and it reminds me of what’s going on. It’s always a reminder of their pain and why I am that hope. Why my brothers are that hope for them. And that was hard to carry that because, you know, you’re carrying this burden to lift their hap–to give them some level of happiness, some level of closure. It’s very hard because I’m not the one–I’m not the recipient of that trauma. However, I am also the product of my parents’ trauma in a way. Like I don’t know if it makes any sense. Because in a way like I’m not a recipient of the war. But I am a product of my parents’ convergence together. It’s–my parents—I think about this a lot. Like if I did not—If they did not have to go through this torture, through this systemic violence and what have you, I would not be here, you know. This existence would not—I would not be existing right now. So, I do think about that part a lot. It’s like what do I want to do with this history behind me. What do I do with ancestry that’s behind me too. How do I create something here in the U.S., you know? Because my parents—It was a struggle for them to create something here that actually gave them some level of hope or some level of happiness. And that’s something that they really couldn’t find because their mode has been into survive, and that they saw us as the product of their labor. Like okay, you know what? I don’t know if the happiness is going to exist for me, but I’m going to find my brothers like to make sure that their lives are better. But it came at a cost. Yeah. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.000 What cost would that be? 00:14:46.000 --> 00:17:49.000 I think it came at a lot–it came at a big price for them. Because my parents, in order for them to live into a decent suburb, they worked a lot of hours. It was very be–it was just very difficult, right. So, I think for my mom she worked sixty hours, seventy hours a week. My dad, you know, before he got let go, he was doing the same thing, too. And so, it affected their health. I mean their jobs were not easy because, you know, my dad was working in a factory. My mom was working in an assembly line. It is an ongoing process of their work. It’s non-stop. It’s a real challenge for them to navigate this kind of work without that kind of rest that’s needed for this–the labor. So, yeah. I think it affected them with their health. My dad, when he got laid off, it was devastating to him. Like that part of identity was ripped away. He did not know what to do with himself. And he just could not work anymore. And I felt like because–not only because he couldn’t find anything else that actually worked and paid him the way he was getting paid, and he was getting paid pretty well from a union level. The level work that’s required was very physical. It was very demanding and I think it traumatized him. For my mom, she had a stroke at work, 2012. Yeah. So, all I can say is that their production sacrificed their health and their mindset. So, yeah. In order for us to live a very productive life, this was the res–this was their labor in order for them to create that. So, I’m very cognizant of that and an example of that would be that I got into a full ride scholarship at U.I.C. (University of Illinois at Chicago) through my mom’s work. But that also came at a price. Came at a price for my mom’s labor. Came at a price for her to take pay cuts all the time. For my dad, you know, we live in a pretty comfortable suburb in Westmont. And we did not have to deal with other southeast Asian refugees that were dealing with gang violence and poverty. And we did not have to go through the social safety nets early on. So, we were very much in a good position. But it required so much out of them to do that. 00:17:49.000 --> 00:18:05.000 Thank you for sharing that. Tell me about–tell me about your childhood and what it was like for you. It sounds like mom and dad were at work all the time, and you didn’t really have a strong family presence like extended family. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:19:29.000 If—Yeah. It felt like a lonely period time, I think. Yeah. I think it felt like a very isolating experience because I was not around a lot of kids. I had my brothers but I did not know how to be a big brother in a sense. I was only–there were–I was only like less than two and a half years older than them. And for me, I didn’t really want siblings because I kind of wanted the attention and I didn’t feel like I had enough of it. And so, that was hard. And also because they were twins, they got a lot of attention, you know. I think that kind of made it difficult for me to deal with. So, yeah. I was a very shy kid growing up. I was very cautious around kids around my age. I don’t know exactly why. But I just knew that I was not around them growing up. And I think that might have affected my relationship, the trust. It affected my relationship to get along with peers. And that was hard. That was a very hard time. But I would say my childhood was very isolating. I did not mind being around adults, funny enough. And I think it’s because they gave me that kind of attention in some way, you know. It kind of–and I kind of needed that. So, I think that’s the best way I can, you know, sum up my childhood. 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:37.000 Okay. So, are you saying that you liked being around adults more than kids because you weren’t getting attention from the adults that— 00:19:37.000 --> 00:20:07.000 I think I was getting more attention from the adults. But I think there’s something about the language itself. Like I was also growing up around adults, too. I think that’s kind of why it was easier for me to be around. But around kids, there weren’t very many. I mean there just weren’t many around the school block, around my neighborhood. And it felt awkward, too, you know. And it–I–and also, I think it didn’t help that I was one of the very few Asian kids, too. So, certainly I think that had something to do with it. Yeah. 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:22.000 Okay. We’ll definitely come back to that—being one of a few Asian kids. But tell me like what you did as a kid like you were pretty shy you said. Were you more like reading books at home by yourself? Or like what were your— 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:44.000 Yeah. I think I was kind of like reading books. I was basically playing by myself a lot. I played by myself a lot. So, yeah. I just did not feel comfortable interacting with other kids at that time. It took me a long time to get consid–to get some level of that. I don’t think it happened in elementary school, you know. But I did read a lot. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.000 What were your–some of your favorite books? What comes to mind? 00:20:46.000 --> 00:21:05.000 You know, I would read, funny enough, like maybe in third grade, I started reading encyclopedias. I was such a geek for history. So, I would always read. And so, I would always get nav—I always felt navigated by that. So, it was kind of something I took a lot of joy doing, yeah. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:13.000 Mm-hmm. Cool. And what about music? I know you’re into music. And you’re a concertgoer. What bands and artists stand out to you during that time period? 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:41.000 Oh, yeah. Probably–it probably didn’t happen until junior high but for me it was Mariah Carey. It was Madonna. It was Janet Jackson. Those were the triangle of divas. And, but that–they were certainly people I listened to. Then there was, you know, my little rock phase with Smashing Pumpkins and Red Hot Chili Peppers. And so, yeah. I—And hip-hop music too. But anything that was like on the radio station, B-96, that was my go-to, yeah. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.000 Okay. B-96. Is that station still in existence? 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:48.000 It’s still there but I haven’t listened to that station in a long time. It’s a very different format, I guess, so— 00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:07.000 Yeah. Sure. Okay. Um, okay. I just want to hear more about your childhood. So, I’m going to ask some probing questions. But if you want to go off on tangents, feel free. And also if any of these questions are just like not—If you have no answer, that’s fine, too. 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.000 What—So, did you have any influential teachers? 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000 I did. I did, actually. 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.000 Okay. Great. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:28:32.000 Yeah. Oh, gosh. This might get me emotional. Because this was such—But this is a story I definitely want to talk about. Yeah. I had a couple of really good teachers actually. Yeah. Well, one was my speech therapist, Mrs. Gaul (Roxanne Gaul). I still keep in touch with her. Then there’s my ESL teacher, Mrs. Hodek (Jean Hodek). I, you know, keep in touch with both of them very much. And they took me in under their wings, you know. They were the people that I trusted very early on since kindergarten. Like I had a hard time trusting people, trusting my peers. For some reason, I trusted them and I think it’s because they gave me the individual attention. They gave me the love, the nurturing that I needed. I have to say that my parents couldn’t do that, but they were just not always present. But they were the first ones to really do that. And they were with me the entire duration, you know, to this day. I mean they’re people I still keep in touch with. Um, (pats his upper chest with his right hand) sorry. Mrs. Nilan. This is a special story for me. She was my third-grade teacher. First and second grade I was struggling, you know. And somewhere along the line with third grade, she saw my potential. And I think this is kind of where I started to really grow and flourish under her tutelage. You know, she used to say something that I would always remember. And it was “Good, better, best. Never let it rest, until your good is better, until your better is your best.” We used to repeat that as a mantra every day in class. And very welcoming, very inclusive, very loving, very loving, you know. So, I would say that she was a big inf–she was a huge, huge impact on my life. Like profound impact on my life. It’d be like over the years I would get to learn more about her as a teacher, you know. Like I remembered when I was going to secondary education for a brief time, she allowed me to observe her class. And it allowed me to see it as an adult, as a young adult, to see how she navigated that class. And I was like— Like she would never say “You’re wrong.” She would always allow people to share their answers before she actually made her response, you know. And so, she had a way of making you feel very welcome. And she was very passionate about her work as a teacher. Very funny, very witty and charismatic. And so, a couple of years ago, she had–was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. So, about a year ago, I decided to visit her actually. You know. And I had no idea that she was going to remember me. So, she l—was—she’s currently living in Minne–like in St. Paul, Minnesota. And so, I wanted to (sighs) pay a visit to her because when I found out that she had dementia, she had early onset Alzheimer’s or dementia, I hadn’t seen her for several years. And I just felt like I needed to give her her flowers. I just needed to give her my thanks. Because she really helped me a lot as this refugee kid, as this–as seeing me grow up as an adult, seeing me become a teacher in South Korea. So, she was there for a lot of my milestones. And I felt like, as hard as it was for me to try to visit her in that circumstance, I felt like I owed that to her. I felt like I owe something to make her feel better. So, to make her day, you know. That was the goal, you know. I don’t have the expectation that she was going to remember me. So, last year I drove up to Minneapolis, in St. Paul, and I decided to visit her in her assisted living and, you know, I was actually terrified. I had my flowers. I was shaking. I was like I don’t know what I’m going to do. Because I had a friend of mine who was going to come join me and she is a care worker. So, she—And also was my childhood grade school friend that went to school with me too. And when she got Covid and she’s like “I can’t go” then I was like oh, my god. It's up to me to just do this visit. And I’m like I’m scared out of my mind because I don’t know if she’s going to get agitated, if it’s going to scare her that she’s seeing a random stranger that she doesn’t recognize. And she hadn’t seen me in like six years. And so, you know, it’s not a good situation. So, I knocked on her door and, you know, the–her mouth just dropped open. And she was like “I remember you” is what she said. And I was like—And I was not prepared for that. I was like wow ; she actually remembers who I was. And she started asking me—The first question she asked me is “How is your mom doing?” Because the last time she saw me was with my mom. And so, I kind of knew right then and there that she actually remembered who I was, like just the face, the way she reacted. It’s like, okay, this is very–this is a very genuine reaction. And when I talked to her and I was holding back, I was crying. I was like having tears. I was like—I was not prepared for that. I was not prepared to have that kind of redirection of the conversation. I was just going to say “Well, how are you?” I mean and try to work with her where she’s at. And then I decided it’s like you know what? I had to thank her, you know. “You really helped me a lot.” So, you know, it made her day to hear that, you know. It’s like I said “You know, you really made my week” is what I said to her. And she’s like “You made my week, too.” And you know, it was very special. It was a very much needed visit because I needed to thank her. I needed—I don’t know how long she’s got left. But I just needed to at least put the exclamation mark in that chapter, you know. It’s like, you know, this is what you’ve done for me and I’ve got to make sure that you get your flowers, you know. So, that was very powerful for me to have that moment. Yeah. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.000 That’s beautiful. 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000 Yeah. Thank you for that question. 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.000 Yeah. And that was Mrs. Nilan? 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.000 Yes. 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.000 How do you spell that? N— 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.000 N-I-L-A-N. 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:45.000 What’s her first name? 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.000 Sharon. 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.000 Sharon Nilan. And you also mentioned Mrs. Gaul and Mrs. Hodek? 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000 Yes. G-A-U-L. 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.000 G-A-U-L. 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.000 And Hodek is H-O-D-E-K. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.000 D-E-K. Thank you. Names are very important. 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.000 Yeah. Thank you. 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.000 Did you—So, you’re really involved now in the community. 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:13.000 To an extent, yeah. I could say, yeah, to some extent. I don’t think I’m as involved as I’d like to be. But you know— 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:17.000 Okay. Okay. We’ll get to that. But how involved were you back then when you were a kid and growing up? 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.000 Not at all. Nope. Mm-mmm. Nope. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.000 Okay. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.000 I did not. I did not. I was very isolated. 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:38.000 Okay. Was part of that—I’m sure part of that was just circumstantial. But was it also self-imposed, maybe, because you were not—or was it self-imposed at all in any— 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:48.000 At any point in my life? Self-imposed. Probably in my twenties I was. Because I felt the language loss very much. I felt ashamed of that. I— 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.000 Language loss? 00:29:49.000 --> 00:31:34.000 Yes. Language loss, language shame, you know. Just not feeling like I’m enough, you know. I’m not—I don’t feel like I’m Vietnamese enough. I don’t feel like I’m Cambodian enough. So, I just did not feel like I wanted to be venturing on those spaces. And I went to U.I.C. for my undergrad. And so, it had a predominantly mix of Asian students, but I was not around many of them. I was an English major, so I did not have a lot of Asian colleagues or classmates to hang around with. So, yeah. It—yeah. So, it–I think that there was a lot of—I don’t want to say “self-loathing” but of being Asian, but I think that I was very guarded about who I let in. I just did not feel like I was enough and I’m not going—And I felt like I had to protect myself from being in those spaces where I may not be welcomed at all. So, yeah. I think it took me until my–until I went to Korea and then coming back, I felt like I needed that community. You know, after being in Korea, it’s like, you know, I really feel like I need to explore and adventure on to that identity more, because I did not fit into white spaces. I did not fit into the spaces I was forcing myself into. And that was the upbringing that I was raised in, a predominantly white community. And I just realized that that was not cutting it for me. I felt like I needed to step outside my comfort zone and go there. 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:45.000 Okay. I want to go back to what you mentioned about language loss. So, not speaking Vietnamese or Khmer —is that what you meant? 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.000 Yeah. That’s correct. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:55.000 Okay. So, did–was it people from those communities that made you feel that way,that you were not enough? 00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:34.000 Relatives, family members, parents, you know. I was very angry, and also, I think as a teenager I was very angry, you know. I felt like I was not seen as enough. So therefore, fuck it. I don’t want to be a part of that community and so I definitely felt that in some ways, internally. So, yeah. I think that, you know, from family friends. So, I certainly saw where I lacked, and it was very present. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000 What would people say to you if I can ask? 00:32:37.000 --> 00:34:15.000 Hhmmm. Well, it’ll always start–it’d be “you should.” So, that’s one that happens a lot (circles his right pointer finger in the air, signifying repetition). And I was in a very rebellious part of my life where it’s more like “Yeah, I should but I don’t. I won’t. And do I?” you know. So, I–that’s how I responded to a lot of it. (raises his head with chin in the air) It’s like I know where my—I kind of know where my place is but I know that my place is not within those spaces because I know that not being able to communicate definitely puts me in a very–at a big disadvantage. But also, because what my elders were wanting (circles his right hand in the air for emphasis) is not my reality because that’s not how I was raised. The environment I was raised in was very assimilating, so it’s like if I want to be successful, if I want to be able to survive in being in America, then I’m going to have to ride that wave rather than, you know, riding on my parents’ communities because I don’t think they could survive in a sense. And I say this not in a mean, demeaning way. It’s because I have seen them struggling to survive, you know, and it’s like why do I want to struggle? 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:22.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, it sounds like you really have had a backbone, from a young age. Like you didn’t just kind of bend over the wave. I feel like a lot of Asian Americans— 00:34:22.000 --> 00:35:19.000 I feel like I didn’t—I feel like I did not have a choice. I feel like I did not have a choice. But I felt like I did not have a backbone for a—growing up until I had to grow up some thick skin, you know, early on as a teenager and into my early adulthood. And I, you know, I found people that did in a way understand me like, you know, teachers definitely had some understanding of me. And so, I sought to seek their wisdom. If you—so to speak. But they also don’t have the full lens (motions to the left with his left arm) of my family’s experience and my intersectional identities. So, yeah. I think that also being a queer person, I was not out during that period of time. Certainly, it also kept me away from community spaces. So, I was very guarded. I felt like I had to protect myself and therefore I had to grow a backbone. 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:27.000 Uh-huh. Yeah. Can you tell me about your relationship with your parents, then and now? 00:35:27.000 --> 00:40:53.000 You know— Then (sighs) it goes back and forth. Um, I would say with my mom, you know, we’re closer. I mean, yeah. I know you’ve met my mom and, you know, and recently. And (sighs) you know, ever since her stroke, I have been very aware about the mortality. I’ve been very aware about how long she’s got. I’m going to turn forty in June, and I know that there’s going to be a time when she’s not going to follow me the rest of the journey–the rest of my journey. Is it hard? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I wonder what that would look like. I wonder what am I going to lose? I’m going to lose the cooking, perhaps. I’m going to lose the access to the Vietnamese culture. It’s like reading Crying in H Mart. I don’t know if you’ve read that book, but that first chapter there is like a hodge-podge of everything I do fear, you know. Going into a grocery store when your mom’s gone and having these memories just come up. Oh yeah. I think about that. It’s like go—am I going to go to a grocery store and think about that mortality and think about what I’m losing and what I’m not going to experience anymore, you know, moving forward. I do think about that. I would say that it has gotten better. I think for a long time I did not trust my mom because I felt like she had to be agreeing with my dad out of necessity. And my dad, you know, my dad was very difficult. He was very stern. He was very challenging to be around. He can also be loving at times, too, which makes it very conflicting because I’ve been experiencing both. I’ve experienced love in a way that was both loving and caring and also abusive. So, it made—I kept my guard up, you know, for a very long time with my parents. And I had to fight for what I wanted to do with my life, you know. I had to fight to get into a different major which did not please them. I knew that I was never going to please them. So, I’m going to have to do things the hard way. I had to–I felt like I had to do things alone. Even with my mom’s help with college, which was a big help, I wanted to prove that I could do this without their help. In some ways, I have been able to, not out of resentment but out of like this is a necessity for me. I see a way that’s different for me. I may not be a lawyer. I may not be successful like from a financial venture, but I am more fuller. I am more grounded. I have made incredible friends and a lot of it has to do with my rebellion. It comes from having to be brave and to navigate into some very difficult waters with them, especially when it meant costing my relationship with them. My dad is a very complicated person because he went through so much hell and back. There was a time when I moved out of Rogers—when I moved out of Westmont to Rogers Park for a couple of years and I didn’t talk to them for any of those years. And I knew that my dad’s mental health went south very quickly after that. And it wasn’t until an emergency situation had to happen where I had to intervene, and my dad needed to get medical help for that. And so, our relationship did improve for a little while but, you know, I think (sighs) as time went on my dad had a hard time trusting me because I had to be the one to put him through intervention which was against his own will. And with that said, he and I have this respectful space (rotates his hands in a circular motion). We could be civil to each other, but we just don’t have a relationship, you know. It’s existence. It’s in a very existing relationship that—it’s a relationship that exists but not in a transparent, in a very exchanging kind of way, you know. So, it was very tough. My dad and I are alike in many ways. We’re both very stubborn and we’re both very combative. We’re also, you know, very curious and we both like to tell stories, in a way. So, there’s similarities in us, good and bad. And sometimes that dynamic hits very hard between both of us. 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:57.000 Yeah. Yeah. And you currently live with your— 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:23.000 I do. I do, you know, because both of my parents have needs. You know, my dad definitely has mental health needs, so I need to be there to make sure that, you know, he’s okay. And he’s usually okay when I’m around. My mom, on the other hand, you know, she has her needs. You know, she is very independent yet, you know, you’ve seen her. But, you know, she definitely certain—she has mobility issues that require me to stick around a little bit. 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:42.000 Yeah. Okay. It’s really nice of you to be there with them and be a dutiful son. Tell me about the Vietnamese community that you grew up with, or lack thereof. 00:41:42.000 --> 00:42:06.000 I think lack thereof. I mean I know Asia on Argyle has been my access to it. This is kind of where I do–am familiar with what’s going on with the community. I would describe it as a sense of appreciation now. Back then, I used to not want to go there because it felt like it was a far drive from Westmont to here. 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000 How far of a drive was it? 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.000 Um, you’re talking about close to an hour. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:15.000 Close to an hour! Oh, my goodness. Okay. Did you–did your parents come down here to do grocery shopping? 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:22.000 Yes. All the time. And this place was more bustling back in the day. I mean it was bustling. 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:23.000 Where would you go? 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:30.000 Việt Hoa (Viet Hoa) and Tại Nam (Tai Nam). And I can’t remember the other grocery store (motions behind him with his right hand) that’s since closed. But that’s another place too. 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.000 And anywhere else? Like would you go out to eat on Argyle? 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:54.000 We went to Ba Lẹ (Ba Le) back when it was an old, old shop when it used to be an old hole-in-the-wall. Hard to believe but, you know, that was that time. But, you know, the–but yeah. We hung around there quite a bit. So, that was my access to the Vietnamese community. As far as like making friends, I did not have that experience. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:59.000 Did that—When did that start changing for you? Because I know now you have a Vietnamese community. When did it start to shift? 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:33.000 I think for both communities it–probably when I came back to Chicago from Korea. Yeah. That’s when I started to get involved with i2i, which is a LGBTQAPI org. I was living in Rogers Park and met a lot of queer Asian friends of mine, and some happened to be Vietnamese. One was–is a close Khmer friend of mine. So, that’s how the ball started rolling in that direction. Mm-hmm. 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:39.000 And what did your trip to Korea have to do with this shift? 00:43:39.000 --> 00:45:34.000 Oh! I think a lot, actually. Up until I was twenty-five years old before I left for Korea, I was in mostly white dominated spaces. Being in Korea—and the reason why I went—it’s a long story but when I was looking for jobs back home, it was a struggle. I wanted to go into media and communications. I was striking out everywhere I went. And it was such a pain. And then I was like I don’t know if I have any hope being in the U.S. I started to look into teaching abroad as an option. I had briefly got into a secondary program, wasn’t very satisfied. I was thinking, you know, maybe I should give this a shot. Vietnam was my first choice. But then I realized that they were not interested in finding Vietnamese American people to teach. They wanted white people to teach. That was my experience. And I was very devastated by that. It’s like, this is awful, and I felt like this was my one chance that I could actually have to be connected in some way, you know. And, but one of the TOEFL recruiters—TOEFL is like “Teaching English as a Foreign Language”—well, the program actually told me about, well, Korea was an option. And Korea had a big opening for the English teaching program. So, long story short, it was the first time I was around other Asian expats. There’s a few that are Vietnamese, one of them became a close friend of mine. He was like my neighbor. 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.000 What’s his name? 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:36.000 His name is Tony (Hùynh) (Tony Huynh). 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.000 Tony? 00:45:37.000 --> 00:46:17.000 Yes. He—Yeah. We were like brothers for that year, and I was there for three years. I started realizing how white expats became more obnoxious. I just did not want to be around them as much. But I saw that there was an Asian expat community of teachers and I felt like I related to them in some ways. We related to the diaspora. We related to the fact that we were around the same age, and that our upbringing was in a way similar—language loss, diaspora, suburbia. 00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:19.000 Were they Asian American or Asian? 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:57.000 Yes. Asian American and some were Asian Australian, Asian Canadian, Asian British. So, it was a very good experience to have that. I was like, gosh, now I know what it feels like to be in that space. And I felt that once I come back home, I’m going to make that effort to be in those spaces, Asian American spaces. And because I felt like now I know what it’s like and I don’t feel that I could turn back. And I was about to turn thirty, you know. It was like I feel like I needed to make that shift in my life. 00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:02.000 That’s a really big shift. Do you think you were a pretty different person when you came back? 00:47:02.000 --> 00:48:10.000 Yes, I did. Yeah. For many reasons. As a teacher, I never realized that I would be looked up to in some kind of way. And I felt like I did not realize that I would have to be responsible for the people in my–in that I would be teaching for. And I realized that that was very important. So, I realized that I don’t want to just live recklessly. I wanted to live with a level of responsibility. And I think that was a big shift for me. I also realized how important it was for me to understand my identity as a queer, Viet-Khmer American. I needed to own that before the narratives of that owns me. I wanted to control that narrative. I wanted to show this is who a person of those identities can mean. And I wanted that to come out in a way that’s on my agency, you know. And I felt like that was very important. 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:18.000 Yeah. Yeah. When did you come out? 00:48:18.000 --> 00:49:32.000 I think there’s been different periods that I’ve come out as. I don’t think there was a specific year. There really wasn’t. I’d say it was more official once I hit thirty which is a kind of a while ago, which is like about a decade ago. I think because I was so protective of my personal life for so long that it was very hard for people to kind of get a sense of who I was. And I wanted people to—or I wanted my friends to know that in order for me to be a safe person, I need to be safe to myself. I need to be safe too about the identities that live within me. How do I create safeness, you know, without fear, without prejudice, without having to internalize that? So, I wanted to be a safe person to other people. And in order for me to do that, I had to be safe to myself. So, I think that’s what prompted me to be more transparent about who I am and who I’ve been all along. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:48.000 Yeah. I really like the way you put that, being safe to other people. Being safe to yourself. That makes total sense and I never thought about it that way before. So, can I ask when you came out to your parents? Or if you came out to your parents? 00:49:48.000 --> 00:52:01.000 Mmm, we haven’t had much discussion to be honest with you. My mom knows and that was like several years ago. My thing is I think she accepts that reality that I’m not going to give her grandkids which has never been my goal. I don’t know if she could handle me being in a relationship because I’ve, you know, have not—I have been in many short relationships but never anything that substantial. I don’t know if she–how she would handle that reality. I don’t know if that’s–if she is fearful of the fact that I may no longer take care of her or whatever. That’s not the case. But we haven’t had that discussion in a long time. You know, it kind of reminds me of the book Ma and Me by Putsata Reang who talks about that sort of her coming out, you know. Her mom initially accepted it but did not want her getting married to a woman, you know. So, that was a lot of struggle back and forth. And I kind of wonder—that same scenario—am I afraid? No, I don’t think I’ve ever been afraid, to be honest with you. I’m kind of confrontational about how stubborn I am and at the same time I also don’t like to be that way either because I feel like it’s such a draining energy. And I like to live in a way that is very peaceful, you know. But I also know that if that time comes, then it will come, you know. I’m not going to force the issue. For my dad, I don’t think I have that relationship for him, with him, for me to even care, you know? It’s like sometimes there’s a part of me that would probably do it out of revenge. But that’s not the way for me to do that. Yeah. I could say that my coming out has been very, very complicated but it seems like everyone else knows and very openly because my relatives see my Facebook. They see my social media. I’ve been very out in front about my experiences. And if you don’t like it, then find someone else to follow. 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:11.000 Yeah. I think that’s very brave of you, if I can say that. 00:52:11.000 --> 00:53:04.000 I think it’s both brave, but it’s also necessity. It’s the way I live my life. I need to confront a lot of discomfort that people have about me or that I have about myself. I have to do that. It’s a necessity in order for me to be my best self, to be transparent, to be authentic. And I can’t live without the authenticity because I know that when I don’t have my authenticity with me, it’s a struggle. That was a struggle for me in my childhood. I did not know where I was belonging, and I felt like I wanted to fit in and assimilate. And realizing that that created more harm. Don’t want to go to that place. You know? I’ve been there. Not a good place for me to be in. 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.000 Is there anything you’re still working on confronting today? 00:53:07.000 --> 00:54:13.000 (sighs) I think I have to confront the fact that as I’m getting older, I have to confront the fact, you know, that I’ve seen friends of mine who have lost their parents, you know. I feel like I have to confront the day that, you know, my parents aren’t there. Or the fact that people older than me are not going to be around. I do think about that part because I know that I’m going to be gatekeeping a lot of that history, the history that I have accumulated. And I’m going to be—And it’s also what do I do with history? How do I want to share that? How do I want to present myself? What does my involvement with the community look like as I get older? You know. So, it’s—I think it’s too soon to tell but it’s certainly something I think about. 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:18.000 Thank you for your honest answers. I’m just marinating on them and trying to see like where I can jump off. 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.000 Sure! 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:31.000 Do you—This is related to your last answer, but it’s not going to sound like it. Do you feel like you and your parents know each other? 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:32.000 That’s a great question. 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:35.000 Like do you feel like you know each other on a personal level? 00:54:35.000 --> 00:57:36.000 I don’t, to be honest with you. I think—I don’t think anyone’s asked me that question before. But I really don’t—I try to give—especially my mom—I try to give her more bits and pieces, you know, that I feel comfortable sharing, like when I went to L.A. recently, like earlier this year. It was great for her to see you. It was great for her to see my friend Kenneth (Nguyễn) (Kenneth Nguyen). You know, other aspects of my life, you know. I’ve done that, you know, in some tangible way, because I at least don’t want to completely guard myself. But I think I’ve had such a hard time because I’ve always guarded my family life and my personal life very separately, for a really long time. So, old habits die hard. I think I don’t know if it’s very judgment, but I do fear my friends, you know, being hurt by what my mom or dad might say, you know, by whether it’s by intention or not, you know. Especially when I have a lot of queer and trans friends, you know. I wonder how she would feel about my friend who became a trans man recently and you know I thought about that because I’m like I feel like I want to protect my friends from harm, you know. Because I know that I have not done enough work to get them to understand identities and experiences that they don’t have knowledge of. Yeah. I don’t think we know each other as well as we could. And I feel like with time ticking and still not getting the full depth, the full scope of their experiences, I don’t know how many questions I’m going to be walking around with for the rest of my life. So, yeah, I do think about that part and, you know, my mom doesn’t really know that I have a podcast. I choose not to, because I feel like that work is very personal. I feel like it really gets into the weeds, and I don’t know if she quite understands that. I think maybe it’s because I feel that when it comes to my work, I want people to understand that. And if you don’t understand it, it’s a lot of labor for me to have to explain it. I don’t think I’m the most patient person out there. I feel like I am not as willing to give as much grace as I should. But I value that work as being very sacred, you know, and why I have to hold such value for it and it’s hard and if anyone doesn’t understand that, it’s like well, (motions with his right hand as if to throw something away) I don’t know what to say. 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:38.000 Is your mom as guarded as you are? 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:54.000 She can be. She can be, yes. And my dad is very guarded, too. So, I think that there’s habits, you know. I think there’s–there are–I think that those are dynamics that come into play. And my brothers are the same way too. They are very guarded as well. 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:58.000 Okay. Okay. I think my family’s the same. 00:57:58.000 --> 00:57:59.000 Yeah. 00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:08.000 Yeah. Tell me about the queer Asian American community. 00:58:08.000 --> 00:59:41.000 You know, I think it’s evolving. Definitely i2i was a very big community for me. I made so many friends. I learned so much about my identity. I used to learn so much about others’ identities and their experiences. I’d say it’s the queer Asian community that I belong to for a number of years where I’ve grown into my friendships with and some I’ve kind of like left behind in some way, whether it’s through time or what not. I learned a lot about social justice work. I learned about self-care. I learned about different tools that betters selves as people, as individuals, as a collective. And so that’s something I’ve learned about that community. And I will always be thankful for that, for those–for that expansion of my tool kit. And I think that is something I’m very thankful for, for that community. And, yeah, they’ve taught me a lot. I can definitely say that without them, I would not be as empathetic as I am now. And my work on empathy is still growing, it’s still working, it’s a work in progress. But it’s certainly better off than it was a decade ago before I came into those spaces. 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:51.000 Mmm. Okay. Are there any people in particular that you want to mention by name who have been really instrumental to you as a gay man? 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:54.000 Yeah. I have this–I have to thank Nebula Li for that. 00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:55.000 Nebula Li. 00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:34.000 Yeah. Yeah, he has been very helpful over the years. I’m very thankful for that. I would also like to thank Lyk, L-Y-K Yoeun. She was the one that made me feel safe as a queer Cambodian to be involved in the community because she herself is a queer Cambodian woman. So, I’m very thankful to her for that. Joy Messinger, a Korean American adoptee, definitely a person that I value as a friend, and someone that I really care about, someone that has really taught me about compassion and has taught me about the work in social justice. 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.000 What was Lyk’s last name? 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:41.000 Joy Messinger. Messinger as in M-E-S-S-I-N-G-E-R. 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:42.000 And Lyk? 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.000 L-Y-K. And her last name is Yoeun, Y-O-E-U-N. 01:00:46.000 --> 01:01:07.000 Y-O-E-U-N. Thank you. That’s great. And then so still on the topic of community, tell me about how do you think people in the Vietnamese American community see you? 01:01:07.000 --> 01:02:14.000 Um, hmm. I don’t know if I have a full scope of how they feel about me. I’ve always felt that I’m an open book. So, I think maybe some might see me as polarizing. Some might see me as like a person that they need to be in community with. I think it really depends. I don’t know if I have a good answer for that. I think they see me as relatable. I think they see me as a person that is genuine about the work. I think it’s been done through my podcast. So, I think the work speaks for itself. It depends. And also, you could see that in the guests that I bring in that are also Vietnamese and Cambodian. So, I think that really, you know, shows that I have worked to gain the trust and that that is a priority for me, whenever I do my work, whether my podcasts or as a storyteller or in any–at any platform that I’m being given. 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:21.000 Mmm. That’s great. And—how do you want to be seen? 01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:49.000 I think I want to be seen as empathetic yet unapologetic. I want to be seen as a person who’s endlessly curious and really is curious enough to lift stories to end the harm that’s been done to our community. 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:52.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I see you as all those things, Randy. 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:55.000 Oh, thank you. 01:02:55.000 --> 01:03:03.000 Okay. So, that’s a good segue actually. Let’s talk about your podcast. 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.000 Sure. 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:09.000 You’ve done a lot in the Asian American community. 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:10.000 Thank you. 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.000 What led up to making a podcast? 01:03:14.000 --> 01:06:34.000 Yeah. So, about four years ago around this time in April, I had been a guest on a few podcasts, the Vietnamese Boat People podcast, Self-Evident, Asian American Stories, and The Gay Asian podcast, which is then–which was then changed to Queer Asian Social Club. And I really enjoyed that experience. And I had been doing some storytelling at that time, but I was working with my former mentor, and she actually told me “I would like to challenge you to do an independent project. I feel that you’re ready to do it.” She was very right because I needed my own platform. I felt like I was starting to find my voice and I wanted to do a podcast that was like a love letter to my younger versions to myself, the 10-year-old that never learned about Asian American leaders and change makers. I wanted to do a podcast as a love letter to my 15-year-old self that had to see Asian Americans as the villains of the story, of the narrative. I wanted to do a love letter—a podcast as a love letter to my 20-year-old version that struggled as a journalism student in a very white dominated space and how that would carry, follow me through my college years. And then the love letter to my closeted self. The love letter to my 25 to 30-year-old something self that was lost between my identities. And so, I wanted a podcast that actually reflected these wants. What could have my 10 to 30-year-old self would have wanted to learn all along, wanted affirmed, wanted validated? And I also saw the need to after working with community members in our Asian community members tell us of their stories. I wanted the podcast to show that Asian Americans are doing things about uplifting their history. Because my brother once told me that he didn’t really see that, and it really irked me. I was like “No. That’s not true. I know that there are people and I hear—here’s the evidence for it.” I wanted to talk to authors. I wanted to talk to activists. I wanted to talk to community members, educators. I wanted to talk to people that are sharing the blueprint of their work but also demonstrating the kind of conviction they have for their community and how they are working to change the landscape. I don’t want it to just be a representation matters nonsense. I want there to be work that’s being done in progress. I want them to—I want our community to have that chance to share their stories and have the agency to do so. 01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:45.000 That’s wonderful. So, tell me about the early days like when you actually started the podcast. Like what was—Who was your first guest? 01:06:45.000 --> 01:07:58.000 It was Etzkorn Wong. Etzkorn, actually, he is a musician, and I met him through my former mentor. And we connected. I remember we connected immediately, well, one because he’s part Vietnamese and his mom also had a stroke or at least something similar to my mom. And his mom nearly, you know, died from that. It was very–It was near fatal. It was like around the same time that my mom had hers. So, we connected almost immediately on that. And I felt like we wanted to talk about what caregiving looks like. And I chose him as my first guest because I felt like this would be an important conversation to talk about. The early days of my podcast was strictly very local, Chicago. I wanted to talk to people locally here and people that I’ve known through my i2i days, you know, people that I knew through Asian Americans Advancing Justice. I wanted to do something that was very intimate that actually lifted the stories of Chicago up first. And that was my focus during that first season. And you were a part of that too. 01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:09.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was a really great experience. KIM: Thank you. HO: And I did—Going back to what you just said about being empathetic and available, I did feel like you were a very gracious host. 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:34.000 Thank you. I think that was very important for me to have, prioritize that. Because it’s not my story. It’s their story. And I want them to be able to drive that story, you know. I want them to have agency to do so. And to do so in a space that feels safe for them to share, that gives them power, and that has—and to know it has impact. 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:49.000 How did you feel after your interview with Etzkorn? Like after you had finished the interview and then editing and it was published. How did you feel at that moment? Do you remember? 01:08:49.000 --> 01:09:42.000 Um, if I could recall, it was exhilarating. I felt like I had power to share this, you know. I was very eager to share that story. I was very eager to share other people’s stories that season. Like I felt like I had something important to do, you know, important to say. And for a while I had a hard time because I felt like I was latching on to my mentor for a while and I needed to have something of my own that I could be very proud of and that I can gain–that I can earn the respect of my peers. And that I’m doing something that’s part of our community’s history making and our future making. And a podcast is a good platform for that. So, I was very excited to share that episode. I was—It also made me very excited to share and interview other people. 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:52.000 Mm-hmm. That’s great. Who were some of your most memorable guests? 01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:53.000 Ooof. 01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.000 And why? Like one or two examples. 01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:56.000 One or two, okay. 01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:58.000 Or more if you want. 01:09:58.000 --> 01:13:58.000 Oooh. I’m going to—So, the first one that comes up for me is the family of Christian Hall. Christian Hall was the nineteen-year-old Chinese American adoptee who was murdered by police during a mental health crisis. And I decided to interview his family members, his parents, his adoptive parents specifically, and his adopted aunt. And it was very important for me to capture their story because the story that was often told was him being murdered and the last few, sixty seconds of that video where he was murdered in a civilian footage. I had wanted to change that narrative. I wanted to show who was Christian Hall as a nineteen-year-old. What was he like as a son? What was he—What was his struggle like as an adoptee? I wanted the narrative of him to come out first and foremost because I felt like that was our way of understanding who he was behind the mental health crisis that he endured, that he had to go through, that he had to suffer through, and that unfortunately led to his murder by police. And I wanted to capture the full human scope of who he was. And his family was very gracious in doing that. I mean they talked about how he was affected, being an adoptee. Like he wanted to know who his birth parents were, but you know they couldn’t find out, and how that actually created a lifelong struggle for him. They talked about some of his joys, like how he would love to help his own friends and how he would often try to give three dollars when he didn’t even have three dollars. He was that kind of person. And it was very refreshing to see that narrative come out because that was not a narrative that they got to tell about their son to media outlets. So, I was very fortunate to have that. So, I think that was one of my most important episodes because it gave a fuller scope of who he was. But it also gave attention to what happened to him as well. Another interview for me would be Nguyễn Phan Quế Mai (Nguyen Phan Que Mai) who wrote The Mountains Sing and her recently released book Dust Child. She was very gracious, very down to earth. I read The Mountains Sing. It’s beautifully written. Dust Child was very powerful in its own right. And I wanted to talk about the Am–the Amer-Asian children, the mix, specifically Black Vietnamese children that were left behind during the war. And also, we got into a discussion about Cambodians in Vietnam, how they were treated and Que Mai as a Vietnamese person called out the Vietnamese people and the government for its treatment of ethnic minorities including Cambodians and Amer-Asians and that was very powerful. You don’t get to hear that from a Vietnamese person, especially with someone of her stature, of her platform. And she was very gracious in how she talked about the inhumanity that they experienced. And for me that was very validating because I have family members in Camb–in Vietnam that lived in that part of where there’s a lot of ethnic Cambodians. And there is historical erasures happening there. And so, for her to call that out was very important. I was surprised. I did not realize that that was the discussion I was going to have but it turned out to be a very necessary one. So, but I definitely enjoyed her humanity of in her writing and her willingness to shine a light on difficult topics that are very taboo and her willingness to confront that. 01:13:58.000 --> 01:14:07.000 Yeah. That’s wonderful. I should have started with this question, but your podcast is called “Bánh Mì Chronicles” (Banh Mi Chronicles). 01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:08.000 Correct. 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:09.000 Tell me about that title. 01:14:09.000 --> 01:15:39.000 So, the Banh Mi Chronicles was created—Well, it was actually first created several years ago by, I think, 2016. I was eating at Như Lan (Nhu Lan) with my mom one time, and I was like “You know, it would be kind of nice if I called like my next—” This was before I even thought about podcasts. I would call my next writing piece the Banh Mi Chronicles because I wanted the idea of Banh Mi as like this example of assimilation, of example of Western and Vietnamese fusion and how that is similar to how my upbringing was and how often I have to rattle between those two worlds. And also, banh mi is bread. So, I thought about the idea of breaking bread. So, they—So, in 2019, I decided that I’m going to use that name towards a podcast because I do want to break bread with fellow guests. I also want to demonstrate what assimilation has done, you know, in a way that has affected my guests who have been a recipient of assimilation one way or the other, and how that has impacted us. I don’t want to put it from a narrative deficit but in a way that’s actually kind of like how do we find our voices despite the assimilation, despite the diaspora that we have to endure. 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.000 So, you’re sunsetting the podcast. 01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:45.000 Yes. Sunsetting is a good word for that, yes. 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.000 May I ask why? 01:15:47.000 --> 01:17:38.000 Yeah. I think when I was working on this season after I was coming from a six-month hiatus, I was like something is just not clicking. I’m like I just could not find the second gear to go. I could not find my second gear. I felt like after doing this solo—I’ve done the hosting, I’ve done the scheduling of interviews, I’ve done the writing, the narration, the coordination, promotion, what have you, and I think after four years it kind of wears on you after a while. But, also, I felt like I’ve accomplished everything I wanted to do out of a podcast. Like—And it’s been a great, great journey. I’ve met incredible people along the way, people that I can probably call my friends. I’ve connected with audience members who would also become my friends. I’ve, you know, gotten to speak at universities. I’ve gotten paid opportunities. I’ve gotten tremendous amount of opportunities, and I felt like I’ve done my part. It’s like—And I need something creatively challenging. I need something that’s creatively stimulating. I think creatively stimulating is a better word for it. And after four years, I felt like I’ve done everything I’ve done with this platform. And it’s the right time, you know. And I think when I was working on this season, I just could not find my second gear, even when I had some special guest hosts. And it still wasn’t enough. And I was like, okay, do I end it after this season, or do I go one more season? And I felt like I’m going to go with one more season, because at least that gives me time to figure out what I would like to do after the podcast. And I like to see how things manifest itself now that I’ve put it up to universe. 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:50.000 Okay. If you were going to do a podcast again, or a similar media project, what would you do differently? 01:17:50.000 --> 01:19:14.000 Oooh. (sighs) As far as another media project, I can answer that question. I would like to start my own newsletter after I’m done with the podcast. I’d still like to do the interview format, except in a written form. I may have the audio format just for purposes for those who are low vision or blind. But I would like to go in that direction. Maybe once a month. Perhaps work on a focus that features BiPOC, extends to the BiPOC and LGBTQIA communities. That would be something I would like to do. But that would be a goal of mine, and I would like to do something of that nature. And similar to the way I’ve done my podcast but except shorter because I want it to be digestible for readers, especially like for a one-hour transcript interview, it’s going to be a lot to deal with, versus a thirty-minute. So, I’d like to do something that’s–that I can play a lot with. But if I had to do another podcast, I don’t know. I say never say never, but because I’m in such a mode right now where I’m ready to sunset it, I just can’t think of any other way that I want to do a podcast. Because if that was the case, then I would be working on another podcast by now. 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:41.000 Yeah. That’s fair. That makes sense. Switching gears. So, this is the whole impetus for this oral history project—this question, I guess. What does it mean to you to be a Vietnamese American person? 01:19:41.000 --> 01:20:48.000 Well, I would say as a Vietnamese Cambodian person, because I just can’t see myself as simply a Vietnamese person, I think it carries layers. I think it carries a lot of history. It carries complications. I probably won’t get too—I don’t want to dive into the weeds, because I think it’s just going to, you know, get all tangled up. But I would say that it has many layers. It’s not monolithic. It’s–it’s very multilayered. And it’s not just one story. It’s multitudes of stories. And some of those multitudes’ own little strands of stories can connect with other Vietnamese people that are very different from me. But somehow that shared connection can really be very powerful in of itself. But yeah. I think that’s the best way of answering that question, because I don’t know how else to answer that except that it’s a very multilayered, complex identity. But that’s what happens when you live in diaspora. 01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:53.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I know that was a complicated question, but I really love your answer. 01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:58.000 Of course. 01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:05.000 Do you feel at your core that you are carrying these different identities with you? 01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:38.000 I feel it. I definitely feel it. I’m reminded about it in my work. I’m reminded about it in my interactions with people, with my community. I’m also inter—I’m also reminded in my interactions with non-Asian people as well because I know that people see me differently. So, I know that I’m carrying all these identities with me. I don’t see them as burdens as I used to. I see them as assets. I see them as treasures to me. 01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:39.000 That’s beautiful. 01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:42.000 Thanks. 01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:51.000 Okay. So, that’s a good question, a good segue into my next question. So, the relationship between the Asian American community and the Black community is very complicated. 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:52.000 Mmm. It is. 01:21:52.000 --> 01:22:00.000 So, I just want to hear. This is not a question per se, but just tell me your thoughts on that. 01:22:00.000 --> 01:26:59.000 I value Asian and Black solidarity where we can see it because it does exist. It is very monumental to dismantling white supremacy. And being in this country, especially being in this country where white supremacy has really been the dominant narrative, it is easy to see why Black and Asians have been struggling for solidarity of work. Because of how white supremacy has gotten itself involved in the separation and the dysfunction of that relationship. So, but I’m also at the same time like, you know, assimilation, white adjacency from the Asian community is very real. I want to acknowledge that. That it also does not lead us to liberation. What leads us to liberation is when Black communities are also free, when they can achieve the freedoms that have been evading them for so long. And we are better when they are free. Because that allows our community to be free. That means freedom from police violence. It’s freedom from hate crimes. It’s freedom [of] accessible housing, food, abundant food sources, and what have you. I have seen some hopeful examples. I’ve seen—We do have a Blasian community that no one talks about. I want to credit the Blasian march for doing their work on that. I look at the Black and Asian Alliance Network on Facebook that have done some—that have opened up spaces to have Black and Asian community members be in solidarity. So, I do see where it’s coming from. There is one of my favorite podcast episodes is with Akemi Kochiyama who is Blasian and she’s the granddaughter of the late Yuri Kochiyama, activist icon. Just incredible. And her work—Yuri Kochiyama’s work has been done on Black and Asian solidarity work and for Black freedoms work. Same with Grace Lee Boggs. Two instrumental women that have really showed, modeled examples of what Black and Asian solidarity looks–can look like. But Akemi talks about Yuri’s work for that reason alone, to talk about why it matters and where it exists. I have had Asian folks, men, Asian men specifically, been very angry at me because I support Black Lives Matter work. I think when I had Akemi Kochiyama, I had certain Asian men that DM’ed me and said “Well, I can’t believe you’re doing this.” And my response is why not? This is I think that for a number of reasons the history of Asian and Black solidarity have always existed. It’s existed when Vincent Chin was murdered. Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Push Coalition worked with Helen Zia and the AAPI community. It happened when Grace Lee Boggs worked with the Black Panthers or same with Yuri Kochiyama and her friendship with Malcolm X. Or we can look at the civil rights leaders like Martin Luther King and Thích Nhất Hạnh (Thich Nhat Hanh) who worked together to try to end the Vietnam war. And Black leaders that wanted–that pushed for the migration of southeast Asian refugees to the U.S. So, there has definitely been very, very important moments where that have existed. So, that’s important for us to remember that. Because if we don’t have that history, the violence between both communities will always continue. And it is my wish that I do my part in that both Blasian, Black and Asian folks, have been doing the solidarity work get to have their work uplifted and be—and that the history that they’re doing, the history making that they’re doing, becomes accessible to these communities. Because without it, it becomes a violent struggle. 01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:12.000 I knew you would have a very good answer to that question. I just had a feeling. What are your—How are you feeling energy-wise right now, at this moment? 01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:14.000 I think I’m doing good. 01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:32.000 Okay. What are your thoughts on recent or current events relating to refugee and asylum seekers, such as Afghanistan, Ukraine, and people crossing the U.S./Mexico border? Especially coming from us as refugee families. 01:27:32.000 --> 01:30:54.000 I think it’s simply history repeating itself. It’s a history that we’re very familiar with. It’s a history that also teaches us that—teaches me that as a product of the migration of that wave, so to speak. It’s important for people like myself to never turn an eye on that, to use that experience to welcome them, to help unpack the trauma that they’ve experienced. How do we lessen the generational trauma that this is going to have on their kids? Because that’s the first thing that comes up, is what are their kids going to inherit as a result of this horrible trauma and how can we as a community tap into that? How do we give space for survivors to tell their stories early on, and to make this normalized? I mean I hate using trauma porn to like gather people’s stories. I really don’t. But I do believe in having them—giving them agency to tell their stories, to be protected, to be given safeness from the community spaces that are giving them that voice or asking them to tell their stories, you know, making sure that they’re compensated, making sure that they’re taken care of. I think that’s very important as storytellers, as people who hold these stories. I would like to see—Yeah. I don’t know if I—I think I’m kind of losing my thought there. Yeah. I’d like to see community members who—refugee communities be able to also share their vision. Because I don’t think that my community was given that choice. They weren’t given the option to talk about well, what do they want to become, you know? I don’t—And this is not a knock on the churches or the refugee groups by any means, but I think it would help if they knew what their talents were, what their goals and ambitions were. Because they all had dreams at one point. And how can we help to use that, you know, instead of just putting them into a factory. Do they want to go to school? Do they want to become a doctor? Do they want to become–to contribute in a way that’s valuable to their vision? So, I think that would also be very important to get that. 01:30:54.000 --> 01:31:15.000 Yeah. After our family’s migration—how do I put this? So, we tend to—So, you and I were not—You and I were born here. Not in Vietnam or Cambodia. 01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:16.000 Correct. 01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:30.000 So, we’re one step away from the homeland, so to speak. How does culture stay intact when you get further and further away from that with every generation? 01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:34.000 I don’t know if that’s (sighs)—Hhhmmm. 01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:36.000 Or does it? 01:31:36.000 --> 01:32:31.000 I think it evolves. I think it evolves because culture doesn’t stay static. Culture is what you make of it. Culture is what you—how you receive it, how you work with it, how you take care of it, how you nurture it. So, yeah. I think it’s–it has to evolve. It can’t stay what it was fifty years ago. I mean without the destruction of the homeland, could we say that Vietnamese culture fifty years ago would stay the same as it was—as same as it would be to now? I don’t think so. So, I’d have to say that it has to evolve. But you have to be–you have to be the one driving the evolvement–the evolving. Otherwise, it will evolve on its own, out of your control. 01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:51.000 Yeah. Mm-hmm. Does the Vietnamese American in Chicago–the Vietnamese American community in Chicago have a strong hand in that evolution, would you say? I mean you’re clearly a part of it. 01:32:51.000 --> 01:34:56.000 Mm-hmm. I think they’re doing it differently. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Yeah. There are things that I get nostalgic for, you know. I get nostalgic for certain places that have–that are no longer existed because owners have retired and moved on. But I also have to accept the fact that we’re driving the change. But it’s also good change, too. I mean I look at VietFive Coffee in the West Loop. You know, I look at what Tuấn Huỳnh (Tuan Huynh) is doing about with his coffee shop, how he’s bringing the story of his experiences and how he’s turning it into something that’s very special. And it’s very sacred to the story of this coffee shop and what it means. What does Five mean? If you ever get a chance to work with—oh, he’d be a person you would definitely want to interview. But he’s going to be on my show tomorrow. Oh, he’s on my show tomorrow and he’s very profound. But he’s also talking about how he drives the change on his own terms about what he wants to do with the–his narrative. And so, we’re seeing people doing that. I hear this from the Vietnamese Boat People podcast all the time. They’re driving that change. And they’re doing that on their own. So, I think that’s something to take note of. There’s some that will stay distant and not have anything to do with it. That’s okay. But I want to make it okay that whatever stories that we have, it still matters. It still holds true to who we are, and it humanizes us. And we have to humanize our experiences. And that’s part of our culture. It’s part of how once it’s humanized it belongs to us. It’s unbreakable. And it will evolve in our direction in—And it’s going to evolve into something that’s going to be very special. 01:34:56.000 --> 01:35:05.000 Mmm. Yeah. You mentioned you’re nostalgic for some places that have closed. Tell me, what are those places? 01:35:05.000 --> 01:36:02.000 I remember there was a Cambodian music shop that used to be under the viaduct in Asia on Argyle. I can’t remember the name of it. But I remembered going there too—my dad used to buy his cassette tapes all the time over there. I still remember that. There used to be a place called Trung Tín (Trung Tin), used to be where First Sip is now. But that used to be where the—that used to be a place of Vietnamese music where my parents would get their Vietnamese music there. So, I get nostalgic for those specific times because it’s like, you know, that’s where the soundtrack of my parent’s home comes from is through these two stores. It’s very powerful what music can really do. But also, where the source is coming from and how much of that was an identity of this community, too. 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:05.000 What was the name of the second? 01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:10.000 Trung Tin. It’s T-R-U-N-G T-I-N. 01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:24.000 T-I-N. Thank you. (sighs) So, let’s talk about you. You just finished grad school. Tell me what you were studying and what your intentions are. 01:36:24.000 --> 01:37:28.000 Yeah. I recently graduated at DePaul University with my Masters in Nonprofit Management. And I graduated back in December of last year. And so, currently I work for the Y.W.C.A. I work in board development, communications work, workshop program and also fundraising for our yearly event. So, those are three components of my work. And so, I’ve always wanted to go more into like development and fundraising work because I feel like that fits me. I get in front of people all the time. I love event planning. I love to be able to, you know, create narratives that get people to invest in our organization’s work. And so, that’s why I went to grad school because I wanted to develop that skill set. I wanted to develop my further knowledge of non-profits. So, yeah, it’s been quite a journey. I’m glad to be done with grad school. But I’ve learned a lot from that experience. And I’m very thankful for my professors who invested in my growth during that time. 01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:31.000 Yeah. That’s great. Are there any professors you want to mention by name? 01:37:31.000 --> 01:38:15.000 Oh, yeah. Lisa Dietlin, D-I-E-T-L-I-N. Yeah. She actually helped me get my current job. She connected with her friend who is an executive director of the Y.W.C.A. Strong Families Division program. And yeah, Lisa’s been—I learned a lot from her about when it came to fundraising. I feel like I learned so much from her, you know. She just knew how to find ways to talk to donors and she knew how to, you know, understand donor language and what it means to build relationships and so I learned a lot from her. So, definitely one of my favorite professors. 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:29.000 That’s great. And for—Or, what do you—Do you plan to stay at the Y.W.C.A. for a while or do you have other bigger goals in the future? 01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:45.000 I think that I will always revisit these situations every few years. I would like to grow with the organization, but I also have to like revisit every few years to see where I’m at, you know. And what does that mean. 01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:48.000 Mm-hmm. Sure. You never know where life will take you. 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:51.000 Right. 01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:58.000 I think when you and I met, you were on the board of the Cambodian Museum. 01:38:58.000 --> 01:38:59.000 Mm-hmm. Yes. 01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:00.000 Is that the full name of the museum? 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:06.000 Not the full name but it is what we usually call it, so it’s fine. It’s the National Cambodian Heritage Museum. 01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:12.000 Okay. Thank you. So, tell me about the work that you did with them and what it meant to you. 01:39:12.000 --> 01:40:39.000 (sighs) Let’s see. Well, I’ve been with the board since 2016. And this is going to be my last year. So, I’ve had a pretty long, lengthy run with it. I’ve done community outreach. I have done raising money, volunteering work. So, I feel like I’ve kind of touched on different parts of the museum. I’m not a person—I mean people get the impression that I work as a full-time job. That’s not my job. My job as a board member is to raise money to raise visibility about the museum. But that’s been something that I’ve enjoyed doing because for a while people had no idea that the museum existed, especially even in the Cambodian communities, whether it’s here or in Long Beach or in other places nationally. And so, it’s been kind of fun to be the point of contact, you know. When a Cambodian person is visiting Chicago, they’ll reach out to me and be like “Hey, do you know any other places? I would like to check out the museum. Can you tell me a little bit more about it?” And I’m always happy to have that discussion. And it tells me that, you know, I’m doing my part to raise that visibility day by day and—But yeah. It’s certainly been very rewarding and certainly allowed me to understand the Cambodian community on a national level and also on a local level, too. So, it’s been–it’s gifted me a lot of opportunities, I must say. 01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:43.000 That’s wonderful. How did you get involved with them to begin with? 01:40:43.000 --> 01:42:21.000 It’s a good story. I was approached by my friend Liz. She wanted me to join the board, and I had some hesitations. The reason why I had hesitations was that I felt like I did not do enough work in the community. I was still very insular. I was just not really involved enough. And I wasn’t sure how they would handle a queer Vietnamese Cambodian person in that space. I was very cautious of that. I wasn’t sure how they would—how older board members would feel about that. And I told Liz that I don’t know if I’m that person but I’m going to give—But I—But the funny thing was I was going to visit my dad for the first time in like four years. And I told Liz, “Well, let me tell you this. I’m going to see my dad because I feel like if I have not done any reconciliation of any kind, or attempted reconciliation with my dad, how can I work with the board? If I have not figured that part out, you know?” I felt that was very important. “So, I’m going to tell—Like I’m going to tell you how I feel about it once I visit him and then I’ll give you an answer.” So, when I visited my dad, I actually decided that I also wanted to look at the photo books. I—Something with the photo albums just kept prompting me that I needed to see it. 01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:22.000 Are these your dad’s photo albums? 01:42:22.000 --> 01:44:21.000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Family and my dad’s too. So, you know, after visiting with my dad and I don’t want to get into that because it’s a whole ‘nother story, but I came back home and I was looking in one of the photo albums. I saw an envelope just drop out. And I looked at it and I was like “Okay. This is interesting.” So, I looked at it. And it was a letter from the U.S. Embassy of Thailand. And it was a thank you letter to my dad. And it was written in 1976. So, it was about a few months after the Khmer Rouge started. And they talk—And it thanked him for helping, I want to say 7500 Cambodian refugees get into the United States. He did that work. He did the vetting to get them in. It was very emotional for me to get that letter, because for a long time I never saw my dad as a heroic figure at any point in my life. I did not. But I felt like as a twenty-two-year-old, so if this is what he accomplished, and he did it with all of the trauma that he went through, he did it for the people. Yeah. I looked at it. I was very overwhelmed by it. So, I wanted to honor him. I wanted to honor that work. Because that letter showed me that he did something that was very special that changed the lives of many Cambodians. There are some Cambodian folks that he knows. I mean my dad doesn’t really talk to them, but they’ll talk to my mom instead. And they still want to thank him. So, I felt like it would make sense to join the board. And that’s how I joined the board. Because I saw that as a sign that I need to continue that work, to honor that. But also, it’s my way of reconciling with myself too. 01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:27.000 Yeah. Yeah. Wow, what an incredible thing to learn about your dad. 01:44:27.000 --> 01:44:32.000 Yep. 01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:51.000 Second to last question. Unless you say something really interesting, in which I may have to— (both chuckle) I want to know if there are any people in the Vietnamese American community that you really admire, Vietnamese or Vietnamese American. 01:44:51.000 --> 01:46:18.000 Hhhmm. There’s just too many. I don’t know if I could even have names because I’m going to miss more. Because if I say a name, I’m going to have even more names. (Ho chuckles) I’m proud of everyone that I’ve come across. I’ve come across poets. I’ve come across authors. I’ve come across educators. I’ve come across people from all walks of life that have really inspired me. And some of them have been fortunate to be my guests on my show that I have been very privileged, very, very privileged to hold their stories and to be that person that they can trust. I’m very proud of them. I’m proud of my family members. Some of them became college graduates for the first time. Some have gone on to get their master’s recently. I’m proud. I’m very proud of where we’re taking this, you know? I’m sure I have my disagreements with other members of the community on a political level, or with the Cambodian community, I know that I have my polarizing moments here and there. But I’m proud as a collective. I’m proud that we are doing our best to honor our family’s history, to advance and evolve our history as well. So, I’m very proud of that. 01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:34.000 Thank you. Okay. And finally, is there anything I did not ask but I should have asked. Or is there anything you want to add, anything at all for the historical record? 01:46:34.000 --> 01:47:06.000 I think historically speaking, I think for the record, I think as I’m about to turn forty, I’m very proud of where—of how long I’ve come a way. I hold a lot of appreciation for myself. And I hold a lot of appreciation for those who have been on the journey with me too and that I’ve learned a lot from. So, been very thankful along the way and it’s been a heck of a journey and I hope it continues on for a long–for a little while longer. 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:15.000 Yeah. Thanks Randy! You’ve been really—When I think of Chicago community leaders, I absolutely think of you. Like your name comes to mind, definitely. 01:47:15.000 --> 01:47:16.000 Thank you. 01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:22.000 I mean, when I was living here, you were such an important part of me getting to know the community and being a part of it. So, I appreciate your presence. 01:47:22.000 --> 01:47:48.000 Yeah. It’s weird because I never really like to call myself a leader, I never do. But I just happen to do work that just compels me and, you know, if some, for some peop–for some others they see that as leadership, I’m not going to fight that. But, you know, I’m–I’ve been very grateful that has touched people along the way and that people feel compelled to do things similar or do different things because of, you know, what my work has done. 01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:51.000 Yeah. All right. Thank you, Randy. 01:47:51.000 --> 00:00:00.000 No problem. Thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. &#13 ; &#13 ; This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_access.xml KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kim, Randy. Interview April 22nd, 2023. Description An account of the resource Randy Kim is a speaker, storyteller, podcaster and non-profit professional based in Chicago. In this interview, he talks about his life experiences as a queer Vietnamese-Khmer American, including his childhood, background, and creative work. Randy also speaks on his relationship with his family members and the people he has met who have impacted his life for the better. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-105 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-22 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Randy Kim Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jennifer Ho Subject The topic of the resource Vietnamese diaspora; Refugees; Ethnic identity; Vietnam; Cambodia Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) Chicago (Ill.) Vietnam Cambodia Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright.</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Randy Kim Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience Children of Refugees https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d4315443b6336aabbeedde911dfcbdc3.pdf 9388b7ae5e517c8d87c7ab3adf1ac9ef Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kim, Randy. Interview transcript, April 22, 2023. Description An account of the resource Randy Kim is a speaker, storyteller, podcaster and non-profit professional based in Chicago. In this interview, he talks about his life experiences as a queer Vietnamese-Khmer American, including his childhood, background, and creative work. Randy also speaks on his relationship with his family members and the people he has met who have impacted his life for the better. This oral history was made possible with generous funding from the CSUSM Faculty Center's Professional Development Grant. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Randy Kim Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Melissa Martin Jennifer Ho Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-22 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright.</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Randy Kim Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KimRandy_HoJennifer_2023-04-22_transcript Subject The topic of the resource Vietnamese diaspora; Refugees; Ethnic identity; Vietnam; Cambodia Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) Chicago (Ill.) Vietnam Cambodia Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience Children of Refugees Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cheryl Dinning OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=DinningCheryl_WAHA_2013-05-16.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 6.0 Knowles, Cheryl (Cheryl Dinning). Interview May 16, 2013 WAHA-01 00:00:00 HIST-01 CSUSM Veterans Voices oral histories CSUSM This interview was conducted as part of the War At Home and Abroad (WAHA) project, now called the CSUSM Veterans Voices project. WAHA was conducted by the California State University San Marcos History Department in collaboration with the CSUSM Student Veterans Center (now the Epstein Family Veterans Center) from 2012-2013. The project aimed to document, preserve, and make accessible the experiences of CSUSM's student veterans. csusm United States. Navy ; Iraq War, 2003-2011 ; Gay military personnel--United States ; Afghan War, 2001-2021 ; LGBTQ+ life Cheryl Dinning video DinningCheryl_WAHA_2013-05-16.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/404f80c9a30af3ea36457e736a0d34f2.mp4 Other video English 0 Knowles’ background and enlistment with the U.S. Navy Cheryl Knowles (Cheryl Dinning) discusses her place of birth and why and how she ended up enlisting in the United States Navy. Whittier, California ; enlistment ; U.S. Navy ; 9/11 terrorist attack ; Great Lakes, Illinois 0 138 Basic Training Knowles describes her experience during Basic Training, including her impressions, role within her unit, and what she learned. U.S. Navy Basic Training 0 255 Experience during Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Knowles recounts her experience during A School, where she met a girl and started a relationship, and was eventually outed. Knowles describes her process to discharge, her secret romantic life, and how she escaped discharge, including her marriage to a sailor for the sake of appearances. Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell ; machinist training ; sham marriages ; discrimination ; A School 0 605 First tour of duty Knowles speaks to her first tour of duty, “shore duty” in San Diego repairing survival equipment sent out to ships. She also discusses being a woman and being in the closet in the Navy. shore duty ; San Diego, California ; woman and gay experience in the Navy 0 703 First onboard duty and first deployment Knowles recounts her first ship-side duty as a machinist on the USS Ronald Reagan, beginning 2005, and her first deployment in 2006, where Knowles deployed to Operation Iraqi Freedom. She speaks to the places she stopped on the way to deployment and “the sailor’s life.” Knowles goes into detail about life aboard the USS Ronald Reagan including her work duties, the food, the informal ship economy, and the “political game” of the military, and how she worked within it as a gay woman. Knowles also recounts the specifics of her deployment, and the best parts of being overseas. USS Ronald Reagan ; deployment ; Operation Iraqi Freedom ; machinist ; locksmithing ; ship life ; Subway [sandwiches] ; McDonald’s ; sexism ; shipboard politics ; Damage Control Central ; Dubai ; Ramadan 0 1340 Second deployment Knowles recalls her second deployment, which started six months after returning from her first, when President Obama started the Afghanistan troop surge. Knowles recounts their ship launching bombing runs over Afghanistan, prayer services for pilots onboard the USS Ronald Reagan, and her misgivings about those services. USS Ronald Reagan ; deployment ; Afghanistan war ; bombing runs ; shipboard prayer and religion 0 1446 Third deployment Knowles describes her third deployment aboard the USS Ronald Reagan, back to Afghanistan to “drop warheads on foreheads,” and her increasing disillusionment with the ongoing wars she was being deployed to. Knowles also speaks to her brief periods back home, and how her short time at home impacted her. USS Ronald Reagan ; deployment ; Afghanistan war ; bombing runs ; disillusionment ; binge drinking 0 1559 Fourth deployment and release Knowles briefly delves into her fourth deployment and finally, in July 2009, her release from ship life, where she returned to advanced machining school. USS Ronald Reagan ; deployment ; advanced machining school 0 1607 Shoreside life and loss Knowles recounts her partner’s fertility treatments and the birth of her two daughters, describing in detail the medical emergency and passing of one of her newborns. Knowles discusses the difficulty of therapy and leave time for her in the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell era, and how that policy impacted her grieving process. Knowles also recounts her use of Navy Fertility Services a year later, and the ways in which she benefitted from her time in the Navy, as well as the ways in which she views the hypocrisy of “The Sailor’s Creed” in how the U.S. Navy treats gays, women, and minorities. U.S. Navy Fertility Services ; Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell ; pregnancy ; infant mortality ; The Sailor’s Creed 0 1978 Separation from Navy Knowles briefly touches on her separation from the Navy and her joining of the U.S. Navy Reserves. separation ; U.S. Navy Reserves 0 2023 Interview conclusion, communication Knowles concludes her interview by talking about how the Navy facilitated communication with family and friends while she was deployed, as well as social media use in the Navy. communication ; email ; U.S. Postal Service ; Facebook ; calling cards 0 Interview with Cheryl Knowles (Cheryl Dinning), Petty Officer First Class, United States Navy. In her interview, Dinning discusses her enlistment, basic and advanced training, and four deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Knowles also discusses life in the Navy, including shipboard life, as well as what it was like serving in the Navy as a lesbian during the Don't Act, Don't Tell era, an how if forced her to lead a double life and impacted her ability to be her genuine self and to grieve the loss of her daughter. &#13 ; &#13 ; This interview was conducted as part of the CSUSM Veterans Voices project, facilitated by the California State University San Marcos History Department, from 2012-2013. Veterans Voices (originally called War at Home and Abroad) documents, preserves, and makes accessible the experiences of CSUSM's student veterans. This interview was conducted with a "self-interviewing" protocol, a process drawn from a technique known as Digital Storytelling, which invites the narrator to self-author the interview, telling their story from their perspective, in their own words, and in their own manner. Narrators were provided a list of topics and interview guidelines emphasizing that they could use all, some, or none of the topics as they fashioned their stories about military service and related experiences, thus allowing each narrator to decide what they deemed to be historically important. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:04.144 --> 00:00:05.365 &lt ; Silence&gt ; . 00:00:05.365 --> 00:01:02.155 My name is Cheryl Knowles. I was born in Whittier, California, a suburb of Los Angeles. I joined the Navy in April of 2002. I served during operation Iraqi and Enduring Freedom as an E-6. I come from a large extended family of military, mostly Army. I have uncles that are, uh, colonels and generals in the Army, uh, stationed on the East Coast. My grandfather, who I was closest to, was in the Air Force during the Vietnam War, and he pretty much inspired me to want to join the military, listening to his war stories and the time in the service. I decided pretty much when I was a kid that I wanted to join the military. I remember watching war movies and school, movies about boarding school and military schools. And I was always fascinated with that life. And I just knew, I knew in high school that I was going to join. 00:01:02.155 --> 00:02:18.094 I tried to do the college thing after high school and get a real job in the civilian world, live out on my own, uh, before I joined the military. And it wasn't until after 9/11, uh, which reaffirmed my assumptions that that's where I belonged. Six months after the 9/11 attack, I found myself in a Marine recruiting office. Um, they sent me on my way though, saying that I had too many tattoos. My next stop was the Army recruiting office. And, I probably could have joined the army, but I was looking to pretty much ship out the next day, and their process was taking a little bit longer. And on my way back to my car, just walking past the Navy recruiter, which I had no intentions of going in and talking to them, um, a couple sailors pulled me inside and said, Hey, you know, what are you doing here? Are you interested in the Navy? I'm like, yeah, but you know, I got tattoos, and, you know. And they're like, come with us, we'll get you in. So I did the testing, the physical process, and I was shipped off to Great Lakes, Illinois two weeks later for bootcamp. 00:02:18.094 --> 00:03:21.000 Navy Basic Training was great. I had a great time. It was basically summer camp gone wrong, you know, coming from trying to live on my own as a young teenager, young adult, and working in the civilian world struggling to get by. I now had people walking me to medical, making me get my teeth clean, walking me to breakfast, lunch and dinner. And, you know, I got eight hours of sleep at night, and pretty much everything was done for us. You basically just had to keep your mouth shut and your head down, and that's how it went. Um, I made a lot of friends in basic training. I was kind of like the, the unit clown. I had a sense of humor about everything just because I was a little bit older than the other recruits. So, I was a little more boisterous than the others. And, you know I got in a little bit of trouble here and there, but it was mostly "drop and gimme twenty" or "gimme some pushups and sit-ups." But, you know, I was all about that. So, I had a great time with it. 00:03:21.000 --> 00:04:15.205 Basic training was interesting in the sense that this was the first time I was in a large group of people from basically all walks of life, people from all over the country. We had people from different countries, different religious views, political views, crazy people, weird people, funny people. So it was, um, it was a learning, it was a learning experience, trying to get used to working together as a team with people that think differently than you. But it was a good time! And I learned a lot about people, and I learned a lot about different parts of the country and how diverse we are. But, you know, we came together and we worked as a team, and we all survived via nine weeks of basic training together. 00:04:15.205 --> 00:10:05.000 Upon finishing basic training, I was sent right across the street with my A School. I was going to a machinist training school that was about eleven weeks long. There I met, um, I met a girl, and this was during the Don't Ask, Don't Tell era. And we were in the same school together. We hung out a lot. We ended up dating. We tried to keep it, you know, on the DL just because we were scared of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. And we had heard horror stories about people being outed and kicked out of the military. Um, word got out that we were dating or people thought we were dating, and they reported us to the higher-ups. So one day we both showed up to school, and we were escorted out of school by military police, and we were placed in separate interrogating rooms where we were both asked questions about our sexuality and our relationships to each other. We really didn't have any idea what was going on. It caught us off guard. Um, we didn't admit to anything. We were, you know, basically scared out of our minds because we both wanted to make twenty-year careers out of the Navy. And here they were starting the process to discharge us for homosexual conduct. We were taken out of our training school, and we were placed on a legal hold status where we weren't allowed to continue trading. And they were basically processing us out of the military without any evidence or confessions or anything, just based off of a statement that a roommate I had had made. During that time, we were still allowed to go off base and hang out and stuff, and we did, you know, we weren't doing anything wrong. We would go to Chicago and hang out. We had a hotel that we would go and stay at on the weekends, and the hotel owner would check us in under a male and female name that wasn't our own names, just to kind of cover us, you know, we were staying in the gay area of Chicago. So it was kind of--it was kind of cool and kind of sneaky where we would check in as Mr. and Mrs. something other than what our name was. But basically we were, we were hiding. We were trying to be ourselves, but, you know--in a different, I don't know, identity I guess. Um, one night we were at a club, a gay club in Chicago, and we were just hanging out, having a couple drinks, and in walks one of our chiefs, You can imagine the surprise on her face, you know, we're in a gay bar and here comes one of our superiors walks in. I don't know how she found us, but she basically wanted to tell us that she was gonna go to bat for us, we were gonna be okay, and that we both needed to find a male and, uh, get married. I had met another gay, uh, sailor. His name was Chris. And we were pretty good friends, and we all hung out together. So in my attempt to find a "husband," I pretty much told him the scenario is, "Hey, I need to get married and portray myself as a heterosexual female, and I need a husband, you know? Are you down for it?" And, you know, he thought about it, and it ended up benefiting us both because we would get paid the rate of a married a couple for housing and stuff like that. So, we went to a courthouse in Chicago. We exchanged vows and had an awkward peck on the cheek, and voila, we were married. My girlfriend at the time, Tara, she also got married. She married a friend of a service member who was an immigrant of Poland. And, he needed citizenship. She needed a husband, so she can look like a heterosexual female to stay in the Navy, and so they got married. So here we are, both E-1s, um, scared out of our mind thinking we're gonna get kicked out of the Navy and having to get married to a male. It was just, it was weird. It was awkward, it felt wrong. I had to tell my family about it. It was just--the whole situation was unpleasant. It was scary. Um, I felt like we were targeted and discriminated against, and that's just part of Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the military during that time. After the charges got dropped against us for homosexual conduct, we were both free and clear to finish tech school. And, um, that's what we did for the rest of our time in Chicago. You know, we laid low, made plans to get stationed with our respective "husbands," and just tried to stay out of trouble. I got stationed in San Diego. It was my first duty tour. I joined the Navy to get out of California and to explore the world. So you can imagine my surprise when I saw orders that I was going back to Southern California. I wasn't too happy about it, but it turned out to be a good experience. 00:10:05.000 --> 00:11:43.315 My first tour was on shore duty in San Diego. I was repairing survival equipment that was sent out to the ships, like life rafts and survival food kits and stuff like that. I was the only female working there, and there was probably about twelve males. And the first thing that I got asked when I checked in, uh, had nothing to do with my training, my abilities, my goals. They wanted to know if I was married, and once I told 'em I was married, they wanted to know where he was for how long and it was just like this weird, invasive personal interrogation into my life. But, you know, it just--it just set the tone for the rest of my military career and I know it's a very male dominated profession. And as a female, you have to work twice as hard to prove yourself. And that's what I did the whole time I worked there was I worked, uh, I tried to keep my personal life, my personal life. I had to lie about what I was doing on the weekends and who I was doing it with. Um, you know, and then it was--it was hard. It's hard to live like that and work in an environment where you can't talk about who you went to dinner with the night before, or--or what you're gonna do that weekend. You just, you have to make things up and make it vanilla and cookie cutter and non-interesting. So they stopped asking questions. 00:11:43.315 --> 00:13:11.845 I worked there for two years, and then I got transferred to my first ship, which was the USS Ronald Reagan. I felt comfortable taking orders there because my girlfriend from A School who became my best friend--uh, the dating thing didn't really work out with us. But, she was stationed there. And her supervisor, or my supervisor too, was also gay. So I felt comfortable taking orders there. I was excited and looking forward to it. And I checked on board in February of 2005. We spent a lot of time out to sea that year. In preparation for the ship's first deployment. We deployed for the first time in January of 2006. And, uh, we were heading over to the Operation Iraqi Freedom. On the way there, we stopped in a few countries ; Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, um--and I think Japan. But we would stop in these countries for three or four days at a time, and we'd get off the ship, go blow some steam out in town, do a lot of drinking. The guys would all go get hookers and--it's the sailor life, I guess. 00:13:11.845 --> 00:14:21.000 My job aboard the ship was a machinist. So I worked down in the machine shop with about twelve other machinists. And we were also connected with the welders who also did the plumbing. So we were involved with the ship's sanitation system as well. And there was a lot of times where I was knee deep in a bathroom that's overflowed with, uh, with poop and pee, trying to stop it from flooding the rest of the ship. I was also the ship's only locksmith. I went to a security institute in Kentucky and got trained on basic locksmithing and safes and vaults. So, on an aircraft carrier there's typically three to four thousand safes. So I kept pretty busy. I was also the only locksmith for our battle group, which included about six other ships as well. So whenever something would break on another ship I would helicopter off my ship and spend the night on another boat for a night or two until it took me to, uh, however long it took me to do the repair. 00:14:21.000 --> 00:17:31.000 Ship life is interesting. Um, we lived in a small confined space with about sixty females. Our racks were stacked three high. The middle rack is the ideal place to, you know, to sleep. So eventually I got a middle rack. We had a small locker, and our mattress lifted up, which exposed more storage space. There wasn't much room for storage, so you pretty much took what you could, the basics. Underwear, socks, and t-shirts. A few pairs of civilian clothes, and the rest was room for your uniforms and toiletries. We had two showers for sixty females. Three toilets and two sinks. You would imagine that it would be super crowded in the mornings, but with the way shifts work out the sea, we have a night shift, the day shift, um, people that sleep a little bit later because they had watched throughout the night or whatnot. So, mornings were a little bit crowded, but it wasn't ridiculous as you would think it would be with sixty females trying to, you know, line up for two showers. The food was good starting out on deployment. The farther away from the United States, you get, the more food you get imported from different places. So once we got to the Middle East, the milk, uh, changed color and texture. The lettuce, by the time it would reach us was brown. Vegetables weren't really good. Lunch meat was--colorful, but, um, ship life is about networking. So if you know somebody who works in the galley or works in the chiefs' mess or where the officers eat and you can do something for them, then you're gonna get taken care of food-wise. I ran the laser engraving shop that--you know, I can make signed, engraved coffee cups or pretty much anything. So, pretty--everybody wanted to send home gifts to their family. So I did a lot of engraving of personal items in return for real food and cooked food and cookies and snacks and stuff like that. I got my laundry done, so I rarely had to wait in line to use the washers and dryers, which is mass chaos on a ship. Um, I also--I did some work for the post office, you know, on the side. And when they would fly on mail, the postal guys on shore would go and pick up pizzas or Subway and throw 'em in the mailbox--mail bags. And even though it took a few hours or eight hours to reach the ship, by the time he got those cold McDonald's hamburgers or pizza, they were the best, best things you've ever had. 00:17:31.000 --> 00:19:34.000 Um, being a worker in engineering, I had to prove myself as a female. Like I said, you had to work twice as hard to prove that you could do the job of a male, and it was common for girls or females to, you know, not want to do their job, and they'd get placed in more like an admin type of a setting and less engineering, less hands-on. And that's just what some, you know, females prefer. But I wanted to be out there with the guys getting my hands dirty and stuff, so that's what I did. And it took a while but I gained the respect of the guys that I worked with, and they pretty much--they just start thinking of you as one of the guys. My sexuality was never an issue while I was on that ship. I worked with some of the coolest guys you'd ever meet. They treated me fairly. We made gay jokes or whatever, and, you know, it was cool. I was just like one of the guys. The military is kind of a game. It's a political game. It's all about who you know, good ole' boys club, and doing what you got to do to--to get ahead. Promotions and evaluations aren't based fairly, It's based on who likes you and its popularity contest. On my ship, I learned to play the game, and I did it well, and I got good evals. Sometimes you have to keep your mouth shut and let things slide, like, you know, I put up with some sexual harassment and--and stuff like that, and physical assaults. But, I just felt at the time that this is the way it is, and me complaining about something that's going on would just come back negatively on myself. And so, you just learn to let things go and kind of just join in, I guess. 00:19:34.000 --> 00:20:45.935 Being deployed to the Iraq area of operation, um, it was really hot out there. The food that we got on board, it wasn't good. We spent long hours working, because the air conditioning would stop working or we'd have problems making water. So, uh, we were pulling like eighteen-hour days. On top of that we would have watches in the middle of the night where we would sit down in Damage Control Central. We were basically the 9-1-1 / 4-1-1 dispatcher for the entire ship. Um, we had four hour watches while we were out to sea, and they rotated throughout the day. So if you ended up working from seven in the morning until ten at night, and then you had to be on watch from midnight to four am and you're only gonna get about two hours sleep before you had to get up and start working again. And that was just the way it was. You know, we just, we lived on Red Bull and taking Xenadrine and, you know, little sleep. 00:20:45.935 --> 00:22:20.000 Some of the best parts of deploying overseas were visiting different countries on the way to our area of operation and on the way home. Um, checking out the different cultures in Asia was a lot of fun. And I learned a lot about bargaining and drinking and met some really nice people. Um, a lot of, uh, a lot of shadiness goes on behind the scenes with people trying to solicit themselves sexually or trying to sell us drugs and aftermarket, fake watches and stuff like that. But, um, there was a lot of people that got in trouble, you know, no doubt. But, every time we would pull into a port, they would brief us on what to look out for, different customs and courtesies in the country, what to do, what not to do. Like, we pulled into Dubai and it was the end of Ramadan, so, they basically told us that we weren't allowed to drink until Ramadan was over. And that people, you know, they would stop throughout the day and pray and stuff, and just to stand by, let them pray and then continue on what we're doing, not to keep talking and yelling or taking pictures and stuff like that. Basically just telling us how to act. 00:22:20.000 --> 00:24:06.555 Six months after returning from our first deployment, President Obama started the surge to Afghanistan. And, we were the first aircraft carrier to be sent over there. So, just as we were unpacking from a deployment, we were throwing our stuff back in our sea bag and getting ready to head out again. This one, uh, we didn't have as many port visits just because we were in a quick hurry to get over where we needed to be. And, once we got there, we basically launched planes that drop bombs over Afghanistan and return. And it was pretty cool because they would record it and they would play it on the ship's TVs. And we'd get to watch like bombs drop, and you can see the explosions and stuff like that. What I found interesting was, every night before we go to sleep, the chaplain comes on the ship's intercom and does an evening prayer. I'm not religious at all. And I was actually, you know, I got kind of tired of having to listen to evening prayers every night because I felt like they were kind of forcing prayer and religion in the military. But I don't know. Anyways, they would--they would pray and, um, they would pray for the safety of our pilots as we're dropping bombs that are killing essentially civilians and people. And they were just, I don't know, using Christianity to justify war, I guess. And I mean, I'm not an expert on the Bible, but I'm--you know, isn't God and religion against war? And here we are, interpreting the Bible to justify what we're doing over there. 00:24:06.555 --> 00:25:25.000 Our surge deployment lasted about four months, and then we were headed back to San Diego or, you know, home port. And then, um, we deployed again the next year back to Afghanistan, where we sat off the coast for six months, doing the same thing. Flying jets, uh, "dropping warheads on foreheads." And by this time, this was my third deployment in three years. I was over it. I'm like, why are we here? What are we doing? You know, when we first deployed to Iraq, I was like, why? What are we here? What are we doing? If we're here because of 9/11 and the bad guys are in Afghanistan, why are we looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? But anyways, you just don't question anything. I guess you just do your job like a good soldier or sailor. But by my third deployment, I was--you know I was tired. Tired. I didn't believe in the mission anymore. I wanted to go home, I missed my family. I had missed funerals and weddings, and my nephew was born. I was just tired of it, and I was like, what is this for? Why am I doing all this? 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:59.184 Time in port turns into drink fests because you didn't know when you were going to be deployed or sent out to sea again. And our schedule was so busy. We'd come back from a six-month deployment, and we'd be home for, you know, two weeks, then we'd be back out to sea doing exercises again for another month. So being home was like a--we treated it like a port visit, so it was just like nonstop partying and drinking, and, you know, it was just, it was just, it was bad. &lt ; laugh&gt ; . 00:25:59.184 --> 00:26:47.955 By the time my fourth deployment came around, I was just about to transfer to a new duty station, but I still left and did half the deployment with my ship and my crew. Um, and I was way over it by then. I'm like, I don't want to do anything. So I, I just pretty much chilled and hung out and talked with everybody and didn't really take much seriously. And then in July of 2009, I was finally, you know, released from ship life. And I was sent back to the States to go to advanced machining school before I went to my next command. And I was pretty excited because I was gonna be off the ship for two years, and I could sustain some sort of normalcy in my life. 00:26:47.955 --> 00:30:38.914 During this time on shore duty, my partner and I--we had been together since right before my second deployment in 2007. So this is 2009 now. And we were in our thirties, so, you know, we're discussing kids and stuff, and we, uh, we started using fertility treatments through the military, in order to get pregnant. And while I was on shore duty, my partner Nicole, she got pregnant with twins, and I was able to be there for all of the doctor's appointments. Although I had to lie and say I had medical appointments to go to, and I was very fortunate that nobody ever questioned me where I was going or why I was leaving early. I was basically allowed to--I was in charge of the, uh, the machine shop, so I pretty much did what I wanted to do. The work still got done though, but I prioritized my personal life a little bit above what was going on at work. The twins were born prematurely in February of 2009. And, one of 'em quickly deteriorated and had to be transferred to a children's hospital. This got a little complicated with work because, I wasn't able to talk about, you know, the fact that I was about to be a parent. The fact that I had a partner, or the fact that I had an infant that was really, really sick. So the next day after they were born, I had to go back to work, and I had to leave Nicole in the hospital with one baby, and the other one was at (Rady) Children's Hospital. I got a phone call while I was work saying that I needed to get to the hospital, right away at Children's Hospital. And I had to drive over to UCSD to get Nicole discharged as soon as she could. She'd had a C-section. She could barely walk, but I kind of threw her in the car. And we got over to Children's Hospital, and we were able to hold our daughter before she, she died. Uh, she had a heart defect that caused other problems, and she didn't make it. I was still in uniform that day, just because I had come from work, and I knew that there was no way that I could go back to work that day or the next day. I just didn't know what to do. So, I got ahold of the Command Master Chief. I was pretty sure that she was gay, even though she was a Command Master Chief. So she's playing the political game of, um, hiding it, I guess. Anyways she wanted--she made me lie and say that it was my sister and my sister's baby that died. And, um, I mean, I was able to go on emergency leave or whatever, but I wasn't allowed the same, I don't know, grievance, um, bereavement leave of somebody else who had a close family member die, or the counseling and the support really, from the command. Usually if there was a death or a problem of command, we'd all pull together and raise money and send flowers or anything just for, you know, for everybody, for anything. But, you know, this tragic situation I was going through had to be a secret and a lie. 00:30:38.914 --> 00:31:40.204 A year later. I used Navy Fertility Services to, um--and I got pregnant this time. We already had our daughter, Avery, who was about one years old, and I got pregnant with our second child, Luca, through the Navy. And, I was discharged off of active duty before she was actually born. But, you know, if there's anything about the Navy that I could say good is they take care of, they take care of you. The fertility center never questioned. Um, you know, where's your husband? Why are you infertile? They gave me the medicines, did the procedures, and never asked questions. So, you know, because of the Navy, I've got two beautiful girls. I was able to buy a house. I'm able to use my post-9/11 GI Bill. I'm studying at Cal State San Marcos, about to transfer to UMass Boston. I mean, I just, I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it wasn't for the Navy. 00:31:40.204 --> 00:32:58.000 With that said, I did endure a bunch of bullshit along the way. You know, being a gay service member during Don't Ask, Don't Tell. The last line of (The) Sailor's Creed is, "I'm committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all." And we say The Sailor's Creed every single morning, and we say it before award ceremonies, we say it when we go through promotion boards, and I'm like, who wrote this thing? And fair treatment of all of, of all? Of all, except for gays, except for women, except for minorities, you know, fair treatment of all. It's a bunch of crap. I guess I do hold a lot of resentment, because I was out there defending, uh, defending freedoms that I myself couldn't even take for granted. Like I couldn't even say that I was in a relationship with somebody. I couldn't get spousal marriage privileges to who I really wanted to be married to. Instead, I had to marry a guy who I didn't even really like anymore. But, I was getting extra benefits for that. You know, the system's definitely flawed. 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:43.516 I separated in February, 2012. The military started downsizing. So I finished my reenlistment and I was denied my request to reenlist. So I joined the Navy Reserves, and that's what I'm doing now. Um, I don't like it. I don't want to do it anymore. Um, I'm kind of, I feel like I've finished what I needed to do with the military. I'm just, I'm just ready to move on and do something else. And I am proud of what I did and all I accomplished and what The Navy has done for me. But I think it's time to go. 00:33:43.516 --> 00:35:37.516 Just to answer some of the, uh, the stuff that that's on this outline. As far as communication with family and friends, communication was pretty good. We had email most of the time, unless we had some, some tragic event or we were in harm's way or something, they would shut down email. And the internet, we weren't allowed to use it. But that never lasted longer than a day. So email, we had letters through the postal service, which mail took forever. So basically email. And then towards the end of my last deployment, they started allowing Facebook. They quickly turned it away. I mean turned it off, since people started posting our deployment schedule. But for a while we did have Facebook. We did have internet and the mail. So that's how we did communicating. We also had, uh, sailor phones. It was a dollar a minute, and you would buy a calling card and you can use that. Or if you knew somebody that worked in the communications department, you could use the ship's line. And, there were different codes. To open a line, you can just call out. So, I was able to call my family a lot, and I was constantly on email, so communication was never too big of an issue. Email was basically the reason I got up in the morning. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> In copyright video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the university. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=DinningCheryl_WAHA_2013-05-16.xml DinningCheryl_WAHA_2013-05-16.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/4/resources/55 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Knowles, Cheryl (Cheryl Dinning). Interview May 16, 2013 Description An account of the resource Interview with Cheryl Knowles (Cheryl Dinning), Petty Officer First Class, United States Navy. In her interview, Dinning discusses her enlistment, basic and advanced training, and four deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Knowles also discusses life in the Navy, including shipboard life, as well as what it was like serving in the Navy as a lesbian during the Don't Act, Don't Tell era, an how if forced her to lead a double life and impacted her ability to be her genuine self and to grieve the loss of her daughter. This interview was conducted as part of the CSUSM Veterans Voices project, facilitated by the California State University San Marcos History Department, from 2012-2013. Veterans Voices (originally called War at Home and Abroad) documents, preserves, and makes accessible the experiences of CSUSM's student veterans. This interview was conducted with a "self-interviewing" protocol, a process drawn from a technique known as Digital Storytelling, which invites the narrator to self-author the interview, telling their story from their perspective, in their own words, and in their own manner. Narrators were provided a list of topics and interview guidelines emphasizing that they could use all, some, or none of the topics as they fashioned their stories about military service and related experiences, thus allowing each narrator to decide what they deemed to be historically important. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context WAHA-01 Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001-2021 Gay military personnel -- United States Iraq War, 2003-2011 LGBTQ+ life United States. Navy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cheryl Knowles (Cheryl Dinning) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> CSUSM Veterans Voices LGBTQIA+ experience Veteran experience Women's experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/ea24b429155af41d444a44919d85e657.pdf ab3045bf6d40ed747bf10654c0b06d48 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Knowles, Cheryl (Cheryl Dinning). Interview transcript, May 16, 2013. Description An account of the resource Transcript of interview of Cheryl Knowles (Cheryl Dinning), Petty Officer First Class, United States Navy. In her interview, Knowles discusses her enlistment, basic and advanced training, and four deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Knowles also discusses life in the Navy, including shipboard life, as well as what it was like serving in the Navy as a lesbian during the Don't Act, Don't Tell era, and how it forced her to lead a double life and impacted her ability to be her genuine self and to grieve the loss of her daughter. This interview was conducted as part of the War At Home and Abroad (WAHA) project, now called the CSUSM Veterans Voices project. WAHA was conducted by the California State University San Marcos History Department in collaboration with the CSUSM Student Veterans Center (now the Epstein Family Veterans Center) from 2012-2013. The project aimed to document, preserve, and make accessible the experiences of CSUSM's student veterans. Portions of this interview were edited, including the removal of the interviewer from the recording. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cheryl Knowles (Cheryl Dinning) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Anthony Mino California State University San Marcos. History Department Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-16 Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001-2021 Gay military personnel--United States Great Lakes Naval Training Center (Great Lakes, Ill.) Iraq War, 2003-2011 LGBTQ+ life United States. Navy United States. Navy -- Recruiting, enlistment, etc. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Afghanistan Dubai Iraq San Diego (Calif.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived War At Home and Abroad oral histories Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. California State University San Marcos License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a> Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/4/resources/55">CSUSM Veterans Voices oral histories</a> (external link) Type The nature or genre of the resource text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KnowlesCheryl_WAHA_2013-05-16_transcript Community history CSUSM Veterans Voices LGBTQIA+ experience Veteran experience Women's experience Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jason Beyer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ed Labrado OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LabradoEd_BeyerJason_2025-11-17_access.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Veteran OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 6.0 Labrado, Ed. Interview November 17th, 2025. SC027-096 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Veteran Captain U.S. Army Signal Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Europe Santa Barbara (Calif.) Ed Labrado Jason Beyer Moving image LabradoEd_BeyerJason_2025-11-17_access 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/72bced0e8ce919f692fcb5724a7d099c.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction and Biography Edwin Joseph Labrado Jr. was a captain in the U.S. Army Signal Corps. He was deployed in Europe during the Vietnam War and the Cold War. Labrado was born and raised in Santa Barbara, California, where he graduated from UC Santa Barbara and completed the U.S. Army's four-year ROTC program. His father served as a combat engineer in the 6th Armored Division during World War II. United States Army ; Captain ; United States Army Signal Corps ; Vietnam War ; Cold War ; Europe ; Santa Barbara (Calif.) ; UC Santa Barbara ; General George S. Patton ; Third United States Army ; The Super Sixth ; The 6th Armored Division ; Army ROTC ; Reserve Officers' Training Corps 0 163 Decision to Enlist in the U.S. Army Labrado graduated in June 1968. He was assigned to the Army Signal Corps based on his ROTC training, performance, and preferences. Army ; Reserve Officers' Training Corps ; Port Hueneme ; California ; Ventura (Calif.) ; Camp Roberts ; Santa Barbara (Calif.) ; M1 Garand ; World War I ; Korean War ; M14 ; M16 ; Signal Corps 0 348 Early Days of Military Service and Working with Computers After he was commissioned in the Signal Corps, Labrado completed a basic officer leaders course in Fort Gordon, Georgia. There he learned the tactical employment of communications equipment in the field. He then received additional training at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey and completed the Communications Officers Course. The course taught him about radios, data communication, and encryption. Labrado describes how encryption worked in the late 1960s using IBM computers. Signal Corps ; Basic Officer Leaders Course ; Fort Gordon ; Georgia ; Fort Monmouth ; New Jersey ; Communications Officers Course ; computer ; IBM ; card reader ; encryption ; missile systems ; launch codes 0 517 Assignment to Fort Ord in California and Experience with Burial Ceremonies After basic training, Labrado was assigned to a signal battalion at Fort Ord. There he supported communications training. Fort Ord was a large military establishment, and one of Labrado’s extra duties was organizing military funeral honors for servicemembers killed in action. Labrado tells a story about anti-war protesters at a military funeral in Oakland. At the cemetery, Labrado had to prevent conflict between veterans and protesters, and the protesters were kept from entering the cemetery grounds. Labrado says he respects freedom of speech but thinks it was disrespectful to protest at a burial ceremony. Fort Ord ; California ; Monterey (Calif.) ; signal battalion ; advanced training ; burial ceremony ; burial detail ; NCO ; Non-Commissioned Officer ; Oakland (Calif.) ; Vietnam War ; protest ; cemetery ; post-traumatic stress disorder ; PTSD 0 792 Hardest Adjustment to Military Life Labrado describes how difficult it was initially to adjust to military life. One’s living conditions, responsibilities, and deployment could change dramatically. These adjustments were especially difficult for those who were raising a family while in the military. Army ; Vietnam War ; living conditions ; family 0 904 Deployment to Europe Labrado begins his recollections of deployment with some background context on the Cold War in Europe. He describes how U.S. soldiers were deployed in Europe to deter a potential Soviet invasion. However, most U.S. soldiers who were deployed overseas were in Vietnam. Labrado recalls receiving information about growing anti-war sentiment in the United States, including the 1970 Bank of America burning in Isla Vista near UC Santa Barbara. Europe ; Cold War ; World War II ; Russia ; USSR ; The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics ; The Warsaw Pact ; NATO ; The North Atlantic Treaty Organization ; East Germany ; Soviet Union ; Western Germany ; Korea ; Vietnam ; University of California, Santa Barbara ; Isla Vista (Calif.) ; protest ; Bank of America 0 1195 Battalion Signal Officer in Europe In Europe, Labrado was a battalion signal officer for a Nike Hercules missile battalion that included nuclear warheads. Labrado described the political dynamics that determined why and how nuclear weapons could be deployed against the Soviet Union. battalion ; signal officer ; Nike Hercules ; missile ; nuclear war ; nuclear warhead ; Ramstein Air Base ; Western Europe ; NATO ; Germany ; Russia ; aircraft ; the JFK assassination ; Cuban Missile Crisis ; NCO 0 1420 Humorous Story in Europe Labrado tells a humorous story about when he and his soon-to-be wife, Linda, were stranded in the rain after his 1957 Volkswagen Beetle ran out of gas. They returned safely, but if he did not return to his duty station on time, he could have been labeled AWOL. France ; Germany ; 1957 Volkswagen Beetle ; AWOL ; Absent Without Leave 0 1528 Collecting Beer Glasses from German Gasthauses While deployed in Germany, Labrado would travel to inspect firing batteries. He would often stop at gasthauses for a meal. He collected about 30 beer glasses from the gasthauses. firing battery ; operations center ; Germany ; gasthaus ; glass 0 1615 End of Military Service and Transition to Civilian Life After military service, Labrado completed a master’s degree from UC Santa Barbara. His family was happy he returned, but he described the community’s feeling toward veterans as “lukewarm” at that time. He says that the Vietnam War’s unpopularity was reflected on to servicemen. Labrado thought it was awkward to serve when some citizens did not respect the military. He had a smooth transition back to civilian life, but he noticed that his non-military friends were further along in their careers. Santa Barbara ; education ; master's ; family ; Europe ; United States ; unjust war ; college ; male ; draft ; friends ; military ; career 0 1818 What More People Should Know About Veterans Labrado thinks veterans deserve greater recognition and respect, especially if they served in combat and have injuries or PTSD. Veterans’ families have also struggled with constant moving and absent family members. respect ; veteran ; serve ; combat ; post-traumatic stress disorder ; PTSD ; injuries 0 1882 Message for Future Generations Labrado wants future generations to understand that there was a real threat of nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Labrado argues that deterrence worked and prevented the Soviet Union from invading NATO countries. He thinks that the threat of nuclear war is horrific and that it would be even worse today due to advances in military technology. Russia ; threat ; nuclear war ; Europe ; Vietnam ; Western Europe ; Eastern Europe ; Europe ; NATO ; Ukraine ; Nagasaki (Japan) ; warhead ; intercontinental missile ; deterrence 0 2113 Life Lessons from Military Service In his reflections on military service, Labrado refers to President John F. Kennedy’s statement urging Americans to ask what they can do for their country. He thinks it is important for people to serve their country in some capacity. In the military, he learned how to manage and motivate people, which he believes are important skills for private sector employment. reflection ; military service ; John F. Kennedy ; Peace Corps ; military ; country ; motivate ; supervision ; skills 0 Oral history Edwin Joseph Labrado Jr. was a captain in the U.S. Army Signal Corps. He was deployed in Europe during the Vietnam War. Labrado was born and raised in Santa Barbara, where he graduated from UCSB and completed the Army's four-year ROTC program. After graduation, he was assigned to the Army Signal Corps and later deployed to Europe. In Europe, he served as a battalion signal officer for a Nike Hercules missile battalion that had nuclear warheads. Some of his other responsibilities included communications training, military funeral honors, and the inspection of firing batteries. In this oral history interview, Labrado reflected on the Cold War, the US anti-Vietnam War movement, and how Americans treat veterans after military service. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:03.345 --> 00:00:43.424 My name is Jason Beyer, and I'm a graduate of CSUSM (California State University San Marcos). Today's date is Monday, November 17, 2025. And we're conducting this interview at CSUSM in the CSUSM library, located in San Marcos, California. Today I'll be interviewing veteran Edwin Lebrado Jr. This oral history will help preserve the lived experiences of United States military veterans. Please state your name—your full name. 00:00:43.424 --> 00:00:47.314 I'm Edwin Joseph Labrado Jr. 00:00:47.314 --> 00:00:49.424 Your branch of service. 00:00:49.424 --> 00:00:51.265 The United States Army. 00:00:51.265 --> 00:00:53.524 The highest rank that you attained? 00:00:53.524 --> 00:00:57.905 I was captain in the Army's Signal Corps (United States Army Signal Corps). 00:00:57.905 --> 00:01:02.674 And then please state the war or conflict that was happening during your time in service. 00:01:02.674 --> 00:01:10.314 Well, actually there was several. One was the Vietnam War was going on, and also the Cold War in Europe as well. 00:01:10.314 --> 00:01:16.885 Okay. So now we're gonna begin with introductions. Where were you born and raised? 00:01:16.885 --> 00:01:26.795 I was born in Santa Barbara, California, and I went to school there—elementary school, high school, and I went to UC Santa Barbara. 00:01:26.795 --> 00:01:30.635 What was life like for you growing up in Santa Barbara? 00:01:30.635 --> 00:01:43.944 Well, I really enjoyed it. It's a beautiful area. It's right by the coast, and I thought I had a great childhood there. 00:01:43.944 --> 00:01:48.194 Did anyone in your family ever serve in the military before you? 00:01:48.194 --> 00:02:14.264 Yeah, my dad did. My dad served with Patton's Third Army (General George S. Patton ; Third United States Army), and he was in what they call the "Super Sixth," the 6th Armored Division. And he participated in the invasion of Europe all the way through the end of the war. And he was a combat engineer. 00:02:14.264 --> 00:02:20.224 What were you doing before you joined the service? Did you hold any jobs or were you attending school? 00:02:20.224 --> 00:02:43.705 Well, like I said, I went to the University of California, Santa Barbara, and basically I was working on my bachelor's there, and that was my prior experience—prior to entering the Army. I was in the Army's ROTC program (Reserve Officers' Training Corps), and there I participated in their four year program. 00:02:43.705 --> 00:02:51.275 What led to your decision to serve? Were you drafted or did you enlist or were you commissioned as an officer? 00:02:51.275 --> 00:04:22.425 Well, as I mentioned, I was part of the reserve officers' training program there. So after the four years, you are commissioned in the Army. There was approximately—when I started—around 200 cadets that first started out, and about a hundred of us graduated in June of 1968. And our program, again, was a four year program. And we were trained essentially as infantry. We went to classes, and we also trained—like Port Hueneme—on some of the weekends. Port Hueneme is a naval facility near Ventura (California). And then we also trained at Camp Roberts, which is just up the coast from Santa Barbara. And we would train—in those days we used an M1 rifle, which is the old rifle—actually it was called a Garand. It was used in World War I in the Korean War. And so we got to use that initially, and then gradually we then used the M14 and then the M16, And then we would go to Camp Roberts some weekends where we would learn more about, you know, basic tactics, map reading and things like that to supplement our classwork, which was usually regarding military law, tactics, and history types of programs. 00:04:22.425 --> 00:04:28.084 Why did you choose the specific branch that you joined, that you served in? 00:04:28.084 --> 00:05:48.644 Well, I was in the Signal Corps. And the way the Army works—which is probably like the other services—they more or less can request certain areas or branches, and that's real important because that branch basically is your job during your service in the military. And in our program, the ROTC program, you are ranked for the entire nation for all the colleges that are graduating their officers. And you're ranked, and based on that ranking they give you priority in terms of your selections—you usually get three selections. And I was fortunate enough to get one of my three, which was the Signal Corps. But the Army is a big organization—probably one of the largest—and so we have a lot of branches. We have like 17 branches. We normally have like the ones you would think of—the infantry, armor and artillery—but we have the chemical corps, the ordinance corps, the veterinarian corps. We have all these different corps. So once you're selected, actually, for a particular branch, then that becomes the branch that you will usually remain in for the balance of your service. 00:05:48.644 --> 00:06:01.074 So we're moving on to your early days of your military experience. What kind of training or schooling did you complete while you were in the early days of service? 00:06:01.074 --> 00:07:43.285 Well, once you're commissioned—let's say in the Signal Corps, in my case—then you have to go to what they call a basic officers leadership course (Basic Officer Leaders Course). And there you learn your job, and it's usually a couple—two months, usually eight weeks—and each branch, you know, has different requirements. And in my case, the Signal Corps, the basic course was in Fort Gordon, Georgia. And there you learn how the tactical employment of communications equipment out in the field, because usually when you graduate from there, then you wind up going into the artillery, infantry or armor—and so those are combat, we call 'em combat branches—so there you need to know how to interact with that type of environment. And then, some folks are selected to go in additional training—like I was selected to go to Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, where I was in a course called the Communications Officers Course. And there I learned how to operate radios, and that was the branch that was involved in data communications, encryption, you know, things like that. And that was a eight-week course as well. So that was kind of like a summary of the training that you would get after you are initially inducted into the Army. 00:07:43.285 --> 00:07:49.305 What was it like training with encryption and learning that? 00:07:49.305 --> 00:08:37.995 It was real interesting. I was kind of interested in computers and the like. And you have to remember, this is back in 1969 and a lot of the computers were these old IBMs where you use these cards—IBM cards that you punch out. You know, the different holes, and they had card readers. And so computers were at its infancy—but you know we were progressing. And encryption was important because later I wound up in missile systems. And there encryption is a really big deal because you have, you know, the codes—launch codes for nukes and stuff. And so that was really helpful to me, you know, to get that kind of a background before I actually got assigned to a unit. 00:08:37.995 --> 00:08:41.595 What was your first assignment after basic training? 00:08:41.595 --> 00:09:31.715 Well, I was assigned to Fort Ord, California, which is just up the coast. It's close to Monterey. And it was—I really enjoyed it there because I liked the weather and everything, but this was a very large fort there. And I was assigned to a signal battalion. And my job was to support the units—the infantry units primarily—that were in training there with communication and also support some of the schools they had there for advanced training. Usually when you have basic training, the enlisted men undergo further training—like in radios or wiremen and whatever—and we also supported those units as well. 00:09:31.715 --> 00:09:41.504 When you were at Fort Ord, I remember recalling during your pre-interview, didn't you have a special assignment for like burial ceremonies? 00:09:41.504 --> 00:11:54.544 Yes. When you're—in the military you always get extra duties, and because Fort Ord had a large military establishment, when a serviceman was killed in action and the family wanted a burial detail—which was the highest level where they would have, you know, riflemen for the rifle squad for the volley. And then they would also probably have six pallbearers, a bugler and an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer). They would usually have a lieutenant go with that detail to provide services, you know, for the service member that was killed in action. And for us, it's a big deal when a serviceman gets injured or in this case killed, the utmost respect and honor is allocated to him and his family. And so I would be in charge of putting it all together—getting all the soldiers together and trying to make sure they're trained. And a lot, you know, of this work is done with the NCOs because they're the experts in these areas. And we would take a van—usually a small bus sometimes. But in one case we went up to Oakland, and we went there and there were protesters there—'cause this was in 1969, '70, so there was a lot of protesting the Vietnam War. And so it was really disheartening to us because when we entered the cemetery there were protestors there and they had signs that they were chanting, you know. And some of the signs that, you know, like they were like, "A life wasted," you know. And really derogatory kinds of messages. (Phone ringtone plays and automated voice says, "Unknown caller." The phone is silenced.) I thought I turned that thing off. Is it off? 00:11:54.544 --> 00:12:01.955 So back to the—so there was a service member that was being buried? 00:12:01.955 --> 00:13:12.394 Correct. And so I'm in this bus with probably about 20 soldiers, and most of them have just returned from Vietnam. And most of them had, you know, post-traumatic stress (Post-traumatic stress disorder ; PTSD). So they were real upset. And so, you know, we had to be—I had to contain them and make sure they'd get off the bus. And fortunately when we got into the cemetery, they had a gate there. So these protestors were not able to get in onto the grounds of the cemetery, which was good because that way they didn't interfere with the ceremony. But, you know, I get it. You know, people have a right to freedom of speech. You know, that's one of the things that soldiers do—they try to uphold the constitution. But there comes a point where, you know, you can get to a limit where it's just not respectful, you know, to do that in this type of a situation—especially a ceremony—a burial ceremony. 00:13:12.394 --> 00:13:17.514 What was the hardest adjustment to military life for you? 00:13:17.514 --> 00:15:04.634 Well, I think that initially when you get in the military, it's a whole new environment. I mean, it's 24/7 when you get into the military. You don't control necessarily where you go. I mean, you can ask to go to certain forts and certain locations, but you really don't have a final say. It's that whole saying, you know, "The military will put you where they need you," or, "The Army will assign you where they need you." And especially when there's a war like the Vietnam War going on, then yeah, you wind up going anywhere you want. You get—you move constantly. And you're constantly having to go and learn different kinds of tasks even though you're within a certain branch. You have to learn to work with different people, different superiors and all. That's fine, but it's very condensed. It happens a lot more often, especially when you're first starting off. You have to go into different training environments and you have to adapt. And a lot depends on rank, too. I mean, if you're a Private E1 one, you know, you don't get the same kind of benefits you would as a Second Lieutenant. I mean, the living conditions—and if you have a family, too. You know, it's awkward, constantly moving around, especially if you deploy overseas. Sometimes you can move with your family to a house and the government provides—the military provides housing for you—sometimes not. So it's like going into a new world in a new environment. So you have to adapt. 00:15:04.634 --> 00:15:18.000 So we're moving on to your deployment experience when you first got to Europe. You had mentioned that you were stationed in Europe during the Cold War— 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.000 Mm-hmm. (Labrado nods his head affirmatively.) 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.764 —and so what was that like for you? 00:15:21.764 --> 00:18:22.664 Well, again, the Cold War occurred right after the end of World War II. And as you probably know, when the Russians liberated Europe, those countries that they liberated, they wanted to maintain their political system, so they became communist countries heavily influenced by Russia. And in those days, Russia had—sort of like the United States had—they had the United Soviet Socialist Republic (The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). They were like a federation of states. They were like 17 states that encompassed the USSR. Plus they had the Warsaw Pact, which was another six or seven countries, and they sort of duplicated NATO (The North Atlantic Treaty Organization). And so in those days, back in the 1970s, for instance, Russia was a real prevalent opponent because they had like 22 countries that they could control in one way or the other. And one of those countries was East Germany—'cause East Germany was split in half—again—where the Russians had taken over the territory in Germany, that became dominated by Russia and became communist. Anyway, so in Europe we had of course NATO, and we were concerned with making sure that the Russians didn't invade—or the Soviet Union—Western Europe. So the problem was they were very close, you know? They were right on the borders. And so this was something where we as soldiers wanted to be sure that we were able to react and defend Western Europe. So that was kind of the situation. And simultaneously the Vietnam War was going on. And to give you a perspective, there was around 300,000 as I recall, military presence—U.S. presence—in Europe. And there was about 550,000 soldiers in Vietnam and around 65,000 in Korea. And so most of the focus was in Vietnam. But you couldn't leave Europe undefended because the Russians then might take advantage. And so it's one thing if you lose war in Vietnam, but a whole other scenario if you get into a conflict with Russia, because Russia has the nukes. And so you wanna make sure that that portion of the world is secure. So that's—so the environment that we were in way back in the 1970s. 00:18:22.664 --> 00:18:49.483 Was it—I've often heard one veteran describe it as, it was hard because you have the Vietnam War happening and then you're in Europe during the Cold War, and then there's protests happening stateside. One veteran described it as every time there was a protest, the Russians will get more bolder in Europe. Did you experience anything like that? 00:18:49.483 --> 00:19:55.825 Not a lot that I noticed. In terms of the protest, one of the things that was interesting to me is—I mentioned to you that I went to school at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Well, when I was in Europe, there was a community right next to the campus called Isla Vista, and the bank got burned as a result of a protest—an anti-war protest. It burned a Bank of America down. And I was in Europe at the time. And I was saying, "Wow." You know, 'cause this was a big deal for us, you know, to see that happening—especially in my case, which is right next to the school I graduated from. And I think that was—we got information about the protests and what was going on in the states, but it didn't directly affect us as far as I'm aware of in terms of deployments of any troops in Europe—Russian troops. 00:19:55.825 --> 00:20:01.464 What was your job in Europe to do while you were in Europe? 00:20:01.464 --> 00:23:40.233 Well, I was a battalion signal officer for a Nike Hercules missile battalion. And these are surface to air missiles. They're about 42 feet high, so they're big missiles. And their main objective is to shoot down medium- or high-altitude aircrafts—meaning bombers—and they're radar guided. And they are—we use them as—you can use 'em like for artillery—that is, you can hit land targets with it. We can also shoot down incoming missiles, but our main function would be to shoot down aircraft. And then also we had nuclear warheads on these missiles in the event that went into a nuclear war. And so we had—in my battalion, for instance, we had about 12 of these missiles deployed in various firing batteries. So we could shoot 12 off at one time. So the scenario would be, once the president declares war, we would get notified and then we would then react accordingly. And hopefully it would not be a nuclear war because that would be, you know, that would be horrible. And then we would then fire our missiles and deploy them, as, you know, required. And our main focus was to defend Ramstein Air Force Base—which was a large air force base in Western Europe—and also the NATO troops that were in the western portion of Germany. So usually what would happen when we go on alert is we saw a concentration of enemy, in this case, Russian troops concentrated in one area and like they were gonna deploy. Or if we saw any kind of aircraft coming over that looked like they were going in our airspace, we would then go on alert. And what would happen typically is the Russians would try to, you know, annoy us. They would send the planes towards our airspace and then the Air Force would send fighters out, and of course we would be ready to shoot down, you know, the Russian bombers or whatever if they got past the fighters. But they usually turned around, you know. They were just trying to make everybody aware that they were there. And then two, the other dimension is the political situation. Like, well, not so much the protestors was an issue, but if there was any kind of—well, like the JFK assassination, something like that, or the Cuban crisis (Cuban Missile Crisis), or any kind of real major assassination or political discord—then we would go on alert because we would not know how Russia would react. So we wanted to be sure, you know, that we were ready. So we were always on duty 24/7. I was really pleased that I had really good NCOs in my company because they were critical. I mean, those were the folks that actually did the work and made sure the men were doing their assigned tasks. So I was real fortunate in that respect. 00:23:40.233 --> 00:23:44.595 Were there any lighthearted memories or humorous events that you'd like to share? 00:23:44.595 --> 00:25:28.265 Well, there was one. My soon to be wife, Linda, she went to visit one of her relatives in France, so she went over to Germany. So we spent a couple of days—I got leave—and so I, at that time had a 1957 Volkswagen Beetle, and it was really kind of a relic in that it had—it only operated three out of four cylinders and it rusted out all of the floor of—the vehicle had rusted out because, you know, they use a lot of salt and it snows a lot. And so you could actually put your foot completely down into the road. So we put a piece of plywood there. And the other cool part of that VW was it didn't have a gas meter, so you never knew how much gas you had. So you had this little knob that if you saw the car sputtering, you twist the knob one direction and you get another gallon of gas and you go to a gas station. Anyway, what happened is it started to rain and we got stranded in the middle of nowhere in this VW and we were trying to figure out, you know, how we were gonna get back to—well, I was gonna get back to my duty station, 'cause you know, if you don't show up on time, it's a bad thing. You know, (Labrado laughs) if you're in the military, you could be AWOL (Absent Without Leave). So anyway, everything worked out. But it was really funny because we were in the VW and it's raining and we're we trying to hitch a ride, you know, to get back to my fort. And in the end we looked back and it was funny. 00:25:28.265 --> 00:25:33.875 Did you carry any rituals or keepsakes, or did you do anything for good luck during your time in service? 00:25:33.875 --> 00:26:55.904 Well, one of the things, in my unit we had firing batteries, and we don't put all of our firing batteries all together—you know, I had to spread 'em out. A firing battery would be maybe five or six missiles in one site. And, then we'd have maybe another firing battery five or ten miles from our battalion operation center—and we'd have 'em spread out. And I would go to these firing batteries sometimes to inspect them and stop off to have a meal. And they would have what they call in Germany gasthauses. And they're kind of like inns where you go in and you could have food and have a bar. And they even had, usually, a little hotel. You could stay there overnight. And I would collect from each gasthaus a glass, because each of these gasthauses specialized in certain kinds of beer. And so I came back with about 30 of these glasses of beer where they had these really cool emblems—because the Germans were really big on beer—and each of the breweries had their own emblem. So I thought that was kind of cool. And it brought back, you know, fond memories of going and interacting with the Germans in their, like, inns. 00:26:55.904 --> 00:27:04.993 So now we're coming up to your transition out of service. Where did you go immediately after you separated from service? 00:27:04.993 --> 00:27:21.944 Well, I went back up to Santa Barbara, and I resumed my education, and I was working on a master's. And basically that's what I came back to. 00:27:21.944 --> 00:27:27.345 How were you received by your family and your community back in Santa Barbara? 00:27:27.345 --> 00:28:19.944 My family was great. It was really pleased to see me. They were happy to see me, of course. The community was sort of lukewarm, you know. Some people were kind of lukewarm, when they saw someone in uniform during, you know, the 1968 through '70, '71. And so they were kind of aloof, you know. The Germans on the other hand probably viewed us differently. They saw us as defending or at least preventing the Russians from invading. But in the states, a lot of people thought that the war was an unjust war and it was an unpopular war. And some of that got reflected, you know, on servicemen. 00:28:19.944 --> 00:28:22.595 Was that hard for you to take in? 00:28:22.595 --> 00:29:26.355 Well, initially when you're, like, in Europe and, you know, you get the impression that you're there to protect United States—in this case from an attack, but—and then you find a lot of the citizens really aren't supporting you. That, you know, they think you really are pursuing an unjust war. And so it's kind of awkward because on one hand you're thinking that, "Gosh, we're doing a good thing here." But then on another hand, a lot of the citizens really didn't respect the uniform or the military at that point. And this is only a small portion of the population, but they were very vocal, and a lot of them, of course, were college kids and especially males because, you know, they were the ones who were gonna get drafted. So they were vociferous and—you know. 00:29:26.355 --> 00:29:31.634 What was it like for you to adjust back to civilian life? 00:29:31.634 --> 00:30:18.275 Well, I think I had a smooth transition. Again, I went back to work on my master's and you know, was able to pick up where I left off. But I did notice that when I graduated from college, some of my friends went directly into their careers. And so one of my best friends, when I got out, he became a lawyer. He got his degree and everything. So there was a integral period of time there where a lot of my friends were actually further along in their careers because, you know, I had served in the military and, you know, they of course went into their particular careers. 00:30:18.275 --> 00:30:23.275 What do you wish more people understood about veterans? 00:30:23.275 --> 00:31:22.994 Well, I think that people should really recognize and respect veterans because—and especially veterans that have served in combat roles, because they really have given a lot. Their families had to move constantly and frequently. Their servicemember is gone from the family. And when they serve in a combat role, a lot of the servicemen come back with like post-traumatic stress or physical injuries or mental injuries, and these folks need to be taken care of because they've given so much and that should be acknowledged and they should be supported by, you know, the community in the U.S. 00:31:22.994 --> 00:31:33.474 Following up with the reflections, what message would you want to leave for future generations who may watch or hear this interview? 00:31:33.474 --> 00:35:13.425 Well, I think the first thing is that we, I was in a situation back in 1970, '71, where there was a real threat with Russia because the threat was one in which we could actually get in a nuclear war. And so there are like different stages of war—especially like in Europe—there's conventional war, which is what we would be involved in using, you know, normal kinds of warfare, like in Vietnam. And then there's also limited nuclear war where you would just contain the nuclear war within Western Europe or Eastern Europe. And then hopefully, you know, the politicians or the leaders of the countries would stop there and negotiate a peace. But then if you go into the next level, which is the level where you have and use intercontinental ballistic missiles, and that's Armageddon. I mean, that's when hundreds of missiles go back and forth. And so there's like these three levels, and we were in Europe as part of NATO primarily as a deterrent to make sure that we don't escalate into those levels. So right now, for instance, we have Russia invaded the Ukraine. So that's like a conventional war, which is—it's horrific, but you know, it's contained. But if we were part—if Ukraine was part of NATO, then you would have all the western countries in the US involved in a war with Russia. And at that point, you know, it can escalate. So the point is that deterrence has worked—at least up to this point deterrence, as far as the Russians invading the NATO countries. So I think in that respect, you know, I was proud to be part of that because this is a deterrent that needs to occur so that we don't get in a war with a country that has nukes because we don't want it to escalate or progress to an all out nuclear war. Like in my battalion for instance, we were a tactical unit, so we had to use anywhere from 2 kilotons to 20 kiloton warheads. But even a 20 kiloton warhead was devastating. For instance, in Nagasaki they had I think a 12 kiloton warhead used in that particular bombing, and 150,000 people died. So, but now if it becomes an intercontinental missile, some of those missiles have over 300 kilotons. So you can see that we are at the point now where we have to do everything we can to minimize conflict, 'cause you can never know when it escalates. So in that sense, I think that I was real comfortable with the fact that I was a part of deterring and hopefully preventing any kind of conflict to escalate, because, you know, the threat of nuclear war is horrific. 00:35:13.425 --> 00:35:22.275 If you were to reflect on the journey of your service, what themes or life lessons emerge? 00:35:22.275 --> 00:37:13.945 Well, I think the most important thing is that you learn is service. I think that—well, I grew up in an age where John F. Kennedy said, you know, it's not what you can do for your country—it's what—it's basically what you could do for your country. And that's the critical thing. And I think that, you know, that could be, you know, volunteering, you know, in the Peace Corps or volunteering in hospitals—or actually it is working in gainful employment. In my case service was kind of important because I grew up in that environment, because my dad was in the military. So I think that's important. The need to serve in, some capacity, your country. Because you know, you look back and you see all the benefits this country has—I know we have our issues, but compared to other countries, and I visited a number of countries, our country's great—I mean, it's worth defending. The other thing I learned a lot personally is how to handle people. You know, how to motivate them, how to get them to do what you wanna do. And these were important skills that I learned when I went into the private sector and started working. And like, you learn that, 'cause when you're dealing with like soldiers, just because you have the rank doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna do it to their utmost ability. You have to be able to motivate them to get the most maximum output from them so that you can get the job done. And you have to—you learn a lot about supervision. And these are the kinds of skills that I learned. 00:37:13.945 --> 00:37:20.945 Thank you again for sharing your story. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LabradoEd_BeyerJason_2025-11-17_access.xml LabradoEd_BeyerJason_2025-11-17_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Labrado, Ed. Interview November 17th, 2025. Description An account of the resource Edwin Joseph Labrado Jr. was a captain in the U.S. Army Signal Corps. He was deployed in Europe during the Vietnam War. Labrado was born and raised in Santa Barbara, where he graduated from UCSB and completed the Army's four-year ROTC program. After graduation, he was assigned to the Army Signal Corps and later deployed to Europe. In Europe, he served as a battalion signal officer for a Nike Hercules missile battalion that had nuclear warheads. Some of his other responsibilities included communications training, military funeral honors, and the inspection of firing batteries. In this oral history interview, Labrado reflected on the Cold War, the US anti-Vietnam War movement, and how Americans treat veterans after military service. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-096 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2025-11-17 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ed Labrado Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Ed Labrado Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army United States. Army—Officers United States. Army. Signal Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Cold War University of California, Santa Barbara Patton, George S. (George Smith), 1885-1945 United States. Army. Army, 3rd United States. Army. Armored Division, 6th United States. Army. Reserve Officers' Training Corps Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (United States) Camp Roberts (Calif.) M1 rifle World War, 1914-1918 Korean War, 1950-1953 M14 rifle M16 rifle Fort Gordon (Ga.) Fort Monmouth (N.J.) Cryptography Missiles Fort Ord (Calif.) Funeral rites and ceremonies Noncommissioned officers Post-traumatic stress disorder Warsaw Pact (1955-1991) North Atlantic Treaty Organization Bank of America, National Association Nike Hercules missile Nuclear weapons Ramstein Air Base (Germany) Kennedy, John F., 1917-1963—Assassination Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962 United States. Army—Deserters Nuclear warfare Deterrence (Strategy) Peace Corps (U.S.) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Europe Santa Barbara (Calif.) Port Hueneme (Calif.) California Ventura (Calif.) Georgia New Jersey Monterey (Calif.) Oakland (Calif.) Russia (Federation) Soviet Union Germany (East) Germany (West) Korea Vietnam Isla Vista (Calif.) France Germany United States Ukraine Nagasaki (Japan) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. San Diego Veterans History Initiative San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/cc6b7562e6cb1a2fc4b6d2263de282d4.pdf 1944ab4324c68acefd81e75e82c531e9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Labrado, Ed. Interview transcript, November 17, 2025. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ed Labrado Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2025-11-17 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Ed Labrado License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LabradoEd_BeyerJason_2025-11-17_transcript Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. San Diego Veterans History Initiative Description An account of the resource Edwin Joseph Labrado Jr. was a captain in the U.S. Army Signal Corps. He was deployed in Europe during the Vietnam War. Labrado was born and raised in Santa Barbara, where he graduated from UCSB and completed the Army's four-year ROTC program. After graduation, he was assigned to the Army Signal Corps and later deployed to Europe. In Europe, he served as a battalion signal officer for a Nike Hercules missile battalion that had nuclear warheads. Some of his other responsibilities included communications training, military funeral honors, and the inspection of firing batteries. In this oral history interview, Labrado reflected on the Cold War, the US anti-Vietnam War movement, and how Americans treat veterans after military service. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army United States. Army—Officers United States. Army. Signal Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Cold War University of California, Santa Barbara Patton, George S. (George Smith), 1885-1945 United States. Army. Army, 3rd United States. Army. Armored Division, 6th United States. Army. Reserve Officers' Training Corps Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (United States) Camp Roberts (Calif.) M1 rifle World War, 1914-1918 Korean War, 1950-1953 M14 rifle M16 rifle Fort Gordon (Ga.) Fort Monmouth (N.J.) Cryptography Missiles Fort Ord (Calif.) Funeral rites and ceremonies Noncommissioned officers Post-traumatic stress disorder Warsaw Pact (1955-1991) North Atlantic Treaty Organization Bank of America, National Association Nike Hercules missile Nuclear weapons Ramstein Air Base (Germany) Kennedy, John F., 1917-1963—Assassination Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962 United States. Army—Deserters Nuclear warfare Deterrence (Strategy) Peace Corps (U.S.) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Europe Santa Barbara (Calif.) Port Hueneme (Calif.) California Ventura (Calif.) Georgia New Jersey Monterey (Calif.) Oakland (Calif.) Russia (Federation) Soviet Union Germany (East) Germany (West) Korea Vietnam Isla Vista (Calif.) France Germany United States Ukraine Nagasaki (Japan) Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jason Beyer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jan Michael Letigio Lacea OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LaceaJan_BeyerJason_2024-11-08_access.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Veteran;Hospital Corpsman;United States Navy;Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines;California State University San Marcos OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 6.0 Lacea, Jan Michael Letigio. Interview November 8th, 2024. SC027-072 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Veteran ; Hospital Corpsman ; United States Navy ; Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines ; California State University San Marcos Jan Michael Letigio Lacea Jason Beyer Moving image LaceaJan_BeyerJason_2024-11-08_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/018dba3b4aa97ac3f2e94e43a109d4de.mp4 Other video English 0 Interview Introduction 0 60 Military Background The highest rank Lacea attained serving in the Navy was Petty Officer First Class HM1 (Hospital Corpsman). He served in the Philippines as part of Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines. Navy ; Petty Officer First Class HM1 ; Hospital Corpsman ; Philippines ; Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines 0 84 Childhood Lacea was born in Cebu City in the Philippines in 1991 and was raised in Springfield, Missouri since he was three months old. Cebu City, Philippines ; Springfield, Missouri 0 101 Family Affiliations with the Military Lacea’s father had mandatory Army ROTC in college in the Philippines. His twin older brothers were both in the military: one was a Marine, and the other was also a Navy corpsman. Army ROTC ; brothers ; Navy corpsman ; Philippines 0 132 Jobs Before Military Service Lacea worked various jobs in food service before enlisting in the military, including smoothies, snow cones, Chinese food, and sushi. Tropical Smoothie Cafe ; smoothies ; snow cones ; Chinese restaurant ; sushi chef 0 172 Choosing Military Enlistment and Military Branch Lacea describes how school, family, and his identity as an immigrant influenced his decision to enlist. He decided to join the Navy with his brother’s guidance because it was the best way to pursue a career in the medical field. school ; brothers ; dad ; immigrant ; Navy ; Military Occupational Specialty ; Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery ; medical field 0 282 Early Days of Service, Basic Training, and Education Lacea describes his experiences throughout training, including basic training, accession school, and the Field Medical Training Battalion. He also recalls some of his most vivid memories, like the IV labs in school and Marine Corps training at Camp Pendleton. basic training ; bootcamp ; accession training ; A School ; Great Lakes, Illinois ; Field Medical Training Battalion ; Camp Pendleton ; IV labs ; Marine Corps ; physical training ; Third Marine Division ; Okinawa, Japan 0 434 Memories of Instructors Lacea recalls being scared and stressed during bootcamp, but there were positive and funny experiences in hindsight. He says the instructors “mess with your head so that way they can try to prepare you for anything that you might face in the military.” His memories include the culminating event of Navy Bootcamp called Battle Stations, his impressions of his division chief’s accent, his experience as the Guide of his platoon, and his award for Platoon Motivator. instructors ; Louisiana ; Cajun accent ; Navy bootcamp ; Battle Stations ; Corps School ; Field Med ; Staff Sergeant Borge ; Guide ; Camp Pendleton ; Platoon Motivator 0 701 Weapons Training Lacea describes additional equipment training he received for weapons like the M4, M9 Beretta, .50 caliber machine gun, and Mk 19 grenade launcher. In order to receive the Fleet Marine Force pin, he needed these qualifications. Overall, his main qualification was in the medical field. M4 ; M9 Beretta ; Fleet Marine Force ; .50 caliber ; Mk 19 0 782 Military Promotions Lacea started off as an E3. He described his promotion to Petty Officer Third Class while in the Philippines, and how Filipinos like to help each other out in the Navy. He got promoted to E5 through evaluations. Finally, he was frocked to Petty Officer First Class while in Reserves, before leaving the service. Hospitalman E3 ; Philippines ; Petty Officer Third Class ; the Filipino Mafia ; Navy ; Petty Officer Second Class ; advancement test ; evaluations ; Petty Officer First Class ; Reserves 0 910 Difficulties Adapting to Military Lifestyle Lacea describes the high standards of the military as one of the most difficult yet rewarding aspects of military service. However, feelings of burnout motivated him to leave the service. This led to some feelings of anxiety and regret, as the transition back to civilian life included new expectations. high standards ; burnout ; anxiety ; regret 0 1023 Interactions with People During Stateside Service Lacea describes differing experiences while stationed in San Antonio, Texas ; California ; and Okinawa, Japan. Interactions with locals could depend on the political environment and social class of civilians. San Antonio, Texas ; uniforms ; phase of liberty ; California ; Okinawa, Japan 0 1174 Deployment for Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines Lacea’s only deployment was for six months in Zamboanga, Philippines from 2012-13 for Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines. He describes the conflict in the south of the Philippines and the U.S. military’s involvement in it, mostly advising the Philippines military. He was glad to serve in the Philippines, because he felt that he was giving back to his motherland. Zamboanga, Philippines ; six-month deployment ; Abu Sayyaf ; Moro Islamic Liberation Front ; Al-Qaeda ; advising ; rules of engagement 0 1330 Interactions with Local Peoples and Cultures in the Philippines Lacea is from Cebu City in the central part of the Philippines, but he speaks the same dialect of Bisaya as many locals in Zamboanga. So, despite the differences in religion and culture, he was able to communicate with locals. Zamboanga, Philippines ; Muslims ; religion ; hospitality ; Bisaya ; dialect 0 1430 Friendships and Comradery During Service Lacea describes the diversity of military branches and skills of the people he served with in the Philippines. He also describes highly stressful moments when he and other corpsmen would provide medical assistance after mass casualty events. Joint Special Operations Task Force Philippines ; Navy SEALs ; Delta Force ; the Air Force ; Air Force ; marine security element ; Recon Marines ; USMC Reconnaissance Battalions ; Headquarters Battalion Third Marine Division ; Truck Company ; Motor Team Marines ; night vision equipment ; opposing forces 0 1639 Keeping Contact with Family and Friends While Deployed Lacea recalls having internet access and using it to Skype and FaceTime his friends and family back home. Skype ; FaceTime ; internet ; friends ; family 0 1680 Recreation While Off Duty in the Philippines Lacea recalls his time spent working out, playing basketball, and learning Marine Corps martial arts. He also recalls his four-day R&amp ; R trip to visit his family in Cebu City and Bohol with three friends. exercise ; basketball ; Marine Corps Martial Arts Program ; Rest and Recuperation ; Cebu City ; Bohol 0 1846 Humorous Events While in the Philippines Lacea tells a funny story about the Marines in his platoon being smokers. Others were surprised to see him, the corpsman, passing out cigarettes to his platoon. smoking ; cigarettes ; Marlboro Reds ; corpsman 0 1930 End of Service and His Decision to Stay in California after Service Lacea met his wife while stationed at Miramar. He started wanting to settle down while keeping opportunities in the military. He decided to switch to the Reserves, but it was not what he expected. After nearly eight years serving in the military, he decided to leave the Reserves and stay in California where his wife’s family lives. Since he was surrounded by family when his service ended, he had support. Third Marine Division ; Miramar ; fourth tank battalion ; Reserves ; wife ; family ; California ; Missouri ; childcare ; family ; brother ; Camp Pendleton 0 2142 Relationships with Family, Readjusting to Civilian Life, and Enrollment at CSU San Marcos Lacea had plans to work at Scripps Health while continuing service in the Reserves and pursuing graduate school, but he was disillusioned with both jobs and left them. When he enrolled in the Master of Public Health program at Cal State San Marcos he initially felt out of place, anxious, and regretful. However, once he got involved with the veteran center on campus, he felt the support of a community of veterans struggling with the same issues. graduate school ; Reserves ; Scripps Health ; quitting ; anxiety ; stress ; enrollment ; CSU San Marcos ; veteran community ; Master of Public Health ; support 0 2384 Experience with the G.I. Bill Tuition assistance supported Lacea’s bachelor’s degree. Using the G.I. Bill, he was able to pay for two master’s degrees in public health and business administration. G.I. Bill ; tuition assistance ; bachelors ; master's in public health ; master's in business administration ; CSU San Marcos 0 2417 Continuing Friendships After Service Lacea admires that he can keep up with his friends on social media and see them when they are stationed at Camp Pendleton or come to visit. friendships ; social media ; Camp Pendleton ; visits ; nostalgia 0 2490 Experience with Veterans Organizations Lacea describes his experience with the Veteran Center at CSU San Marcos, including working for the Veterans to Energy Careers program for a semester. He is also part of the Telesforo Trinidad Committee, which was formed because there is a ship being built, the USS Telesforo Trinidad, named after a Filipino who received the Medal of Honor. CSU San Marcos ; vet center ; work-study program ; Veterans to Energy Careers ; Telesforo Trinidad Committee ; USS Telesforo Trinidad ; Medal of Honor ; Filipino 0 2560 How Military Service Impacted His Life Lacea shares how the military provided him social and material benefits. It helped him network, build friendships, and expose himself to different cultures and political views from across the country. It also helped him pursue higher education. education ; family ; G.I. Bill ; disability ; friendships ; networking ; culture ; politics ; Arkansas 0 2674 Life Lessons From Military Service Lacea admires that his service helped him become an adult, including how to complete his taxes. His experience also gave him positive role models. taxes ; TurboTax ; adulting ; parenting 0 2774 Message for Future Generations Lacea wants people to know that veterans are “regular people who were put into extraordinary circumstances.” He wants people to know that the military may not be for everyone. Veterans have very different experiences, and many veterans have not experienced combat. veterans ; perspectives ; experiences ; decisions ; gratitude 0 2871 Association with CSUSM and the North County San Diego Community Despite it being a backup choice, Lacea was happy with his experience at CSU San Marcos. He chose CSUSM because its Master of Public Health program had CEPH accreditation. CSU San Marcos ; North County San Diego ; community ; San Diego State University ; CEPH accreditation ; Council on Education for Public Health ; Master of Public Health 0 2935 Raising Awareness About Conflict in the South of the Philippines Lacea wants more people to know about Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines. Many people died, notably during the Siege of Marawi in 2017. He says, “I just want people to be aware of what we did down there and the people that we helped.” Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines ; Siege of Marawi ; Abu Sayyaf 0 3005 What More People Should Know About Veterans Lacea wants people to know that even though many veterans did not serve in wars, he thinks all veterans “still would've performed well.” He also shares more about how he volunteered for deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan. However, when he joined in 2011, there were fewer military deployments to those countries. He was disappointed by this but happy to be in the Philippines. Iraq ; Afghanistan ; brother ; corpsman ; Marines ; volunteer ; war 0 3093 Lessons Learned from Military Experience Lacea again recounts how mentors during his service taught him how to manage his personal finances and pushed him to pursue higher education. He describes his journey from military enlistment to bachelor’s to master’s. finances ; education ; career ; bachelor’s ; master’s ; Missouri State ; Third Marine Division ; mentors ; Miramar 0 Oral history Jan Michael Letigio Lacea served in the Navy for eight years. He was frocked Petty Officer First Class HM1 (Hospital Corpsman First Class) before he left the service. Lacea described his service in the Philippines for Operation Enduring Freedom, and he reflected on his own identity as a Filipino American immigrant. He also recounted his return to civilian life, attending graduate school at CSU San Marcos, the support he received from the CSUSM Veterans’ Center, and the life lessons he learned from military service. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.525 --> 00:00:56.024 My name is Jason Beyer, and I am a graduate of California State University San Marcos. Today I will be interviewing Jan Michael Letigio Lacea. Today's date is Friday, November 8th, 2024. The general location in which this interview is being conducted is in the Letigio home in Fallbrook, California. Me and the interviewee are both military veterans. The names of the people attending this interview are Marilyn Huerta, camera operator, Adel Bautista, Jason Beyer, the interviewer and the interviewee, Jan Michael Letigio Lacea. The purpose of this interview is to conduct an oral history. Please state your first, middle, and last name. 00:00:56.024 --> 00:01:00.125 My name is Jan Michael Letigio Lacea. 00:01:00.125 --> 00:01:02.664 Please state your branch of service. 00:01:02.664 --> 00:01:04.444 Navy. 00:01:04.444 --> 00:01:07.265 Please state the highest rank that you attained. 00:01:07.265 --> 00:01:12.575 I was frocked Petty Officer First Class HM1 (Hospital Corpsman) right before I got out of the Navy. 00:01:12.575 --> 00:01:17.075 And were you a part of any war or conflicts while you served? 00:01:17.075 --> 00:01:24.734 I served in the Philippines, part of Operation Enduring Freedom—Philippines (OEF-P). 00:01:24.734 --> 00:01:26.564 Where were you born? 00:01:26.564 --> 00:01:41.185 I was born in Cebu City in the Philippines in 1991. And shortly afterwards, when I was three months old, I moved to Springfield, Missouri, and that's where I grew up most of my life. 00:01:41.185 --> 00:01:45.894 Does your family have any past affiliations with the military? 00:01:45.894 --> 00:02:12.365 Yes. So my dad was technically affiliated with the military. He was in Army ROTC in college as part of a mandatory ROTC back in the Philippines—back in those days it was mandatory. And my brothers, my twin older brothers, were both in the military. One was a Marine—he just retired last year—and the other one was also a Navy corpsman. 00:02:12.365 --> 00:02:15.764 Did you hold any jobs before entering the service? 00:02:15.764 --> 00:02:31.925 Yes. So my first job was at Tropical Smoothie Cafe, a small smoothie joint. I started there when I was 15 years old. And I also worked at a snow cone place. And I also worked at a Chinese restaurant. And then right before I left for the Navy, I was a sushi chef. 00:02:31.925 --> 00:02:34.425 So what was it like being a sushi chef? 00:02:34.425 --> 00:02:52.044 Being a sushi chef was fun. I really like eating sushi, so that part was fun. What I didn't like was also I had to work pretty much every weekend, and every day I came home smelling like fish. 00:02:52.044 --> 00:02:55.455 When and why did you choose the military? 00:02:55.455 --> 00:03:32.925 So I chose to join the military for plenty of reasons. School was one. Obviously both of my brothers were in the military, so that was a big influence for me. But the biggest reason why I joined the military was because being an immigrant, coming to America, I saw all the great things that this country provided for my family, for my dad, the opportunity to work. And so I just felt like it was a good way to give back to the country that welcomed our family. 00:03:32.925 --> 00:03:35.694 Were you drafted or did you enlist? 00:03:35.694 --> 00:03:38.594 I enlisted. 00:03:38.594 --> 00:03:42.854 And which branch did you enter, and why did you choose that branch? 00:03:42.854 --> 00:04:42.694 So I chose the Navy and—I enlisted into the Navy because—so again, my brothers influence—my brothers were a big influence on why I joined the military. And my Marine brother wanted me to join the Marine Corps. My Navy brother wanted me to join the Navy. They both gave their pros and cons to each one. I really wanted to be a Marine at first, but my brother did tell me that there was no guarantee that I would get to pick the MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) or the job that I wanted to do. Whereas the Navy was a little bit more of a guarantee I would like, as long as I made a good ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) score and I told the recruiter what I wanted to do, if it was available, then I could do it. So ultimately how I decided was I wanted to see if I wanted to pursue a career in the medical field, and the Navy was the best choice, because unfortunately, the Marine Corps doesn't have a medical field. So being a Navy corpsman was the next best thing. 00:04:42.694 --> 00:04:49.314 For your early days of service, what type of training or schooling did you have? 00:04:49.314 --> 00:05:35.004 Sure. So everybody joins military. They have to attend a basic training or bootcamp as some people call it. So, I attended a bootcamp up at Great Lakes, Illinois, when I first left for the Navy in 2011 in March. And that was my first taste of the military. And then after bootcamp, I went to A School (accession training) that's kind of like our corpsman school where we learned our jobs. And yeah, I learned all the basic medical stuff there at A School. And then after that I went to Field Medical Training Battalion, which is pretty much where we learned the Marine side of being a corpsman and being up in the field and learning about weapons systems. And that was at Camp Pendleton. 00:05:35.004 --> 00:05:44.055 What is your most vivid memory, both best and worst parts of your time in training or in school? 00:05:44.055 --> 00:06:57.665 Let's see. I would say one of my most vivid memories in school was the IV labs. Learning to give IVs to patients. It was a bloody mess for everybody (laughs). So that was pretty vivid. I mean, I'm not really that scared of blood, but I had a lot of classmates that were, so I actually had like one classmate who actually passed out when (laughs) they saw blood. So that was a pretty vivid moment for me. And also, one of the big things I remember was in Field Medical Training Battalion, when I started learning all the Marine Corps side of things. I think that's when the military started being more fun for me, because that's really what I wanted to do. Like I said, initially I wanted to be a Marine—and you know, bootcamp and A School, it was kind of like more of the Navy side and like, oh, okay, this is cool. But once I started doing more of the quote unquote, like, the Marine stuff, that's when it was really fun working with weapons, doing fireman's carry, working out, PT'ing (physical training) every day. I think that was kind of where I was like, okay, this is where I want to be. 00:06:57.665 --> 00:07:01.225 What was your first assignment after basic training? 00:07:01.225 --> 00:07:14.545 Sure. So, after basic, I went to A School and then I went to Field Med. And then after Field Med, that's where we get assigned to our first unit in the fleet. And my first unit was Third Marine Division in Okinawa, Japan. 00:07:14.545 --> 00:07:20.665 Before we wrap up your training, do you recall your instructors that you had? What were they like? 00:07:20.665 --> 00:11:41.674 Yes. My bootcamp instructors, so (laughs), they're—it's funny, looking back at bootcamp. Everybody thinks it's a scary experience. When you're first into it, it's very stressful. But when you look back on it, there's a lot of funny stories that we have. One of my bootcamp instructors, he was this tall guy from Louisiana, and he had this Cajun accent, and a lot of people tell me that I can do really good impressions. So I (laughs) used to do an impression of him all the time, whenever it was a holiday routine on Sundays, whenever we kind of have a little bit of free time during bootcamp. And then towards the end, right before—so our culminating event in Navy Bootcamp is called Battle Stations, similar to the Marine Corps they have the Crucible. So right before Battle Stations, one of the instructors said, "Alright, I know one of you has a good impression of Chief, so who can do a good impression of Chief in the division." And sure enough, everybody in the division pointed back and they said, "Lacea he can (laughs) do a great impression of Chief." So I went up there—I'm not gonna do it right now (laughs), 'cause I don't know if he will watch this. But yeah, I did my impression and like even the instructors were busting out laughing. So that was funny. My Corps School instructors, honestly, I don't really remember too much about them. Again, like, they did a lot of messing around with us. But, you know, all in all, I think that's just all what the military is. You know, they mess with your head so that way they can try to prepare you for anything that you might face in the military. So, and then, and my Field Med instructors, I remember them pretty vividly. Again, they like to mess with us a lot. So in Field Med we had two or three corpsman instructors I think per company. And then we had one Marine instructor. And our Marine instructor, his name was Staff Sergeant Borge—I think he just retired as a Gunny (Gunnery Sergeant)—but he was a funny guy. He liked me because I was the smallest guy in the platoon. And, he actually picked me to be guide for our platoon. So Guide is the person who gets to carry the flag for the platoon, and it's kind of seen as the main leader and motivator of the platoon. And he picked me for Guide. And, unfortunately that didn't last too long, because I am the shortest guy in the platoon, the hikes for me in Camp Pendleton were very hard (laughs) because we had guys in the platoon probably the size of Jason (gestures toward interviewer) who were like six foot five, six foot eight-whatever, and their strides were like (laughs), you know, like 10 feet. And for me to make that same 10 feet, I'd have to pretty much sprint the entire hike all while carrying about like 80 pounds of gear. So (laughs), so pretty much the whole time Staff Sergeant Borge is like, Lacea, you better motivate the platoon. And I would run around the entire platoon all while going uphill (laughs). And, as you know (gestures toward interviewer), the hills in Pendleton are crazy. So, I'm running up this hill, running around the entire platoon trying to motivate them. And eventually I just could not keep up with the platoon anymore and I started to fall back. And Staff Sergeant Borge said, "If you fall back, Lacea, you're fired (laughs)." And unfortunately, I fell back. So I eventually got fired from being the Guide a couple weeks before graduating. But at the end, right before graduation, the platoons, they have like a platoon award that they call the Platoon Motivator, and pretty much the platoon puts in votes and they vote whoever was the biggest motivator for the platoon. And they still voted me as the platoon motivator. So I got recognized for that. And at the end of Field Med, Staff Sergeant Borge, he was like, you know, I don't really say this to a lot of students, but I was actually proud of you and seeing how you improved throughout training. So despite the fact I got fired, he (laughs) still liked me. So (laughs)— 00:11:41.674 --> 00:11:51.284 Did you qualify for equipment such as vehicles, aircraft, radios, weapons? If yes, what was that training like? 00:11:51.284 --> 00:13:02.644 Sure. So in Field Med we're all taught on how to shoot the M4—or it's pretty much the carbine style of the M16—so pretty much just taught the basics of it, how to disassemble and assemble an M4. Also, I got to shoot an M9 Beretta—when I was deployed that was my main sidearm. And, let's see, what else? Oh, and when I was with the Marines most corpsmen—you've probably seen corpsmen in their uniforms they have like a, they call it the FMF pin (Fleet Marine Force), it's like an eagle, globe, and anchor from the Marine Corps, and then it's got like these like wings and stuff. So in order to get that FMF pin, you have to do different qualifications. One of the main ones is weapons qualifications. So we were actually taught how to disassemble and assemble a fifty cal (.50 caliber), which is a big machine gun. We also got to play around with the Mark 19 (Mk 19 grenade launcher). So we were kind of given like a basic instruction on those weapon systems. But overall, my main qualification was just the medical field, medical stuff. So being a corpsman. 00:13:02.644 --> 00:13:06.375 Did you receive any promotions? And if so, could you tell me about that? 00:13:06.375 --> 00:15:10.004 Sure. So when I first joined the Navy, I started off as an E3. And for the Navy our rank is also our job, so my rank was Hospitalman E3. And then while I was deployed in the Philippines, I was actually meritoriously promoted to Petty Officer Third Class while I was there. So, pretty much, the Navy, as some people know, there's a thing called the Filipino Mafia. And so a lot of Filipinos like to help each other out in the Navy. And so a lot of people said that I've got the meritorious promotion because of the Filipino Mafia. So I don't know if that's true or not, but there were a lot of Filipinos in the Navy and I had a lot of Filipino mentors that helped me out. So, yeah, according to some people, that might've been why I got meritoriously promoted to Petty Officer Third Class. And then I got promoted to Petty Officer Second Class pretty much through the regular way, quote unquote. So in the Navy, when you get promoted, pretty much, they take into account your evals and they also take into account a test score—you have to take an advancement test once or twice a year, I don't remember. But, so I took it, I got promoted to E5 the regular way, through the test. And then my last promotion was to Petty Officer First Class. Technically I didn't attain the pay grade. It's kind of confusing how it works in the Navy, but like when you initially pick up rank you get frocked, so you get to put on the rank but you don't get paid as that rank. So I picked up First Class from the Reserves—I was in the Reserves at that time—and I picked up First Class, and I put on First Class, but I got out of the Reserves before I actually attained that pay grade. So, that's why I was only frocked to Petty Officer First Class. 00:15:10.004 --> 00:15:16.715 What was the hardest part of the military lifestyle for you to adapt to? 00:15:16.715 --> 00:15:59.894 Honestly, the hardest part—which ironically also was why I liked it too—was just like the high standards, maintaining that and, you know, like just getting the mission done at all costs. And honestly, that kind of translated to why I had a hard time transitioning out of the military, because I was very focused on making sure I get the job done and making sure it gets done right. And so that was a challenge for me to adjust to—and it was also a challenge for me to adjust out of, too. 00:15:59.894 --> 00:16:09.118 And why do you think that that was the hardest? Why do you think it was the hardest part of the lifestyle to adapt to? 00:16:09.118 --> 00:17:03.705 Yeah, honestly, I mean, you know, like I said, so I was in the Navy for about seven and a half years and making it all the way to Petty Officer First Class for—especially as a corpsman—that's a pretty fast pace of picking up rank. And I really was striving to be the best I could be in the military. And sometimes that could lead to burnout. And so, honestly, like, I eventually got burnt out of being in military, and that's why I ultimately decided to get out instead of staying in the full twenty (years) and retiring. And so yeah, it was hard for me 'cause, you know, sometimes I would get anxiety of like, am I good enough? Will I ever be good enough for everybody? Like, everyone's like, oh, you know, you had such a successful career in the Navy, why did you get out? And so, you know, I had a lot of thoughts of regret and those type of things. 00:17:03.705 --> 00:17:10.875 What were your interactions like with people you encountered during your stateside service? 00:17:10.875 --> 00:17:13.315 Um, like, civilians or— 00:17:13.315 --> 00:17:20.605 Civilians or other people from the military at different bases you might have been stationed at? 00:17:20.605 --> 00:19:34.775 Sure. So, definitely 'cause—so after bootcamp I was stationed in San Antonio, Texas, and it's a very military friendly town. So wherever we went, like, people offered to, you know, get us free food, free drinks, wherever. So being in San Antonio was great. But it was kind of funny because whenever we're in Corps School, our first couple weeks while we're there, we're still in our first phase of liberty, as they call it. So you can only go off base but you have to be in uniform. We would be in our service uniforms whenever we went out in town. And when we went there, our school was still pretty new, so folks in San Antonio weren't used to seeing Navy guys, and especially at the time—we also got a new service uniform too, which we called the Peanut Butters, which was a khaki top and black bottoms—so nobody was really used to seeing anybody in those uniforms. So we would go out in San Antonio and this one guy—old Navy vet from like, you know, the Cold War era—and he came up to us and he was like, "Hey, are you guys Boy Scouts?" (Lacea laughs.) And we're like, no, we're in the military. And he was like, "No, what branch are you in?" Like, we're in the Navy. And he's like, "What? There's Navy guys here in San Antonio? You're wearing uniforms I don't even recognize." Like, yeah, this is a new uniform. So, yeah, it was great being in San Antonio. And then here in California, you know, there's a lot of Marines out here and California is a little bit more, as they say, like a liberal state. So, I don't know—I would just say like, we didn't get as much as the same treatment as we got in San Antonio. But I still like it out here in California. And then, I was stationed overseas in Okinawa when I was with Third Marine Division. And interacting with the local Japanese community, you know, there's a lot of folks in Okinawa who didn't really like us being there. But on the flip side, there were a lot of locals who did like us being there, especially the ones who owned businesses. And so it was a interesting dynamic. But for the most part, the Japanese people were really friendly and polite. 00:19:34.775 --> 00:19:44.085 So now we're gonna move on to your wartime and conflict service. What wartime conflicts were you a part of? 00:19:44.085 --> 00:19:55.005 Sure. So, pretty much my only deployment when I was in the military was in the Philippines, part of Operation Enduring Freedom in the Philippines. 00:19:55.005 --> 00:19:57.483 When and where did you serve in the Philippines? 00:19:57.483 --> 00:20:20.714 Sure. So I was deployed to Zamboanga, Philippines, in the Southwest part of the Philippines. And that was in, I believe, September, or that was in October, 2012 to April, 2013. 00:20:20.714 --> 00:20:25.174 And what were your recollections of that experience? 00:20:25.174 --> 00:22:10.414 Man. Like I said, it was my only big six month deployment, but it was some of the best memories I have of being in the military. Well, for one, being Filipino and being deployed to the Philippines, that was really rewarding for me because I felt like even though I was serving in the American military, I was able to give back to my actual motherland. So not a lot of people are familiar with the conflict down there in the Philippines, but down south there's a big Muslim population in the Philippines. And with that, there were some radical groups there. The main big one was called the Abu Sayyaf, and there's also another big group called the Moro Islamic Liberation Front down in the south, or M.I.L.F. for short. And so those were the main belligerents that were down there, when we were deployed. And, pretty much, they've been causing issues for the government there in the Philippines for a very long time. And especially after September 11th, I believe Abu Sayyaf, they kind of aligned themselves with Al-Qaeda, so that's why America kind of felt like they needed to have a contingency there. And they deployed a lot of their military there mainly for advising. So that's what our main mission there was for was for advising the Filipino military. And so we weren't really like the main combatants, but if we were ever attacked our RRE, or our rules of engagement, were self-defense. So there were I think maybe a couple of times they were skirmishes, but I was not involved in one, though. 00:22:10.414 --> 00:22:21.765 So based off your time in the Philippines, what were your interactions like with the local cultures and the people you encountered during deployment? 00:22:21.765 --> 00:23:50.243 Yeah, so, like I said, I was really proud of being deployed in Zamboanga in the Philippines. But it was a part of the Philippines that I had never been before. So I'm from Cebu, in the central part of the Philippines, and I would visit back there every two years, so I was mainly familiar with that part of the Philippines. But down south, like I said, is a very majority Muslim population. So going there it almost felt like it was a Philippines that I didn't recognize. There's, like I said, a lot of Muslims down there. You would see people in like Muslim garb. Some females even wore a hijab. And so yeah, it was a part of the Philippines I wasn't used to, but everybody there, I mean, they still had that same Filipino hospitality. Everybody was super nice. They spoke the dialect that I speak, which is Bisaya. So I was actually kind of a translator when I was down there—not in an official capacity, but more of like, whenever my Marines went out in town or like, you know, they wanted some food, I would help them out with that (laughs). So, yeah, I was able to mingle with the locals that way. And it was cool because a lot of the Filipinos, they didn't expect somebody—well, they saw like a lot of Filipino American military, but for me especially, because we spoke the same dialect, that was a little bit more rare for them to see. So yeah, that was really interesting. 00:23:50.243 --> 00:23:57.615 What kind of friendships and comradery did you form while serving and with whom, while you were in the Philippines? 00:23:57.615 --> 00:23:59.285 Sorry, can you repeat the question one more time? 00:23:59.285 --> 00:24:05.904 What kinds of friendships and comradery did you form while serving and with whom? 00:24:05.904 --> 00:27:19.365 Man. I had really close friendships when I was deployed. So pretty much when we deployed, it was part of a rotation of—they call it marine security element. So, the main unit that's there in the Philippines was called, JSOTFP, Joint Special Operations Task Force Philippines. So, as the name implies—special operations—a majority of the units that were there and that most people we're supporting were special operations units. So you had the SEALs (Navy SEALs), Delta (Delta Force), the Air Force, PJs—the para rescue guys, I forgot what they're called in the Air Force. But yeah, you had pretty much all sorts of special operations guys there in the Philippines. And then you had all the support people, and we were part of the marine security element. Historically they had Recon Marines (USMC Reconnaissance Battalions) that would deploy there, but then they said, I don't really think we need Recon guys. We could just get a bunch of just regular Marines and fulfill those security roles. So, what they did was they augmented—I was part of Headquarters Battalion Third Marine Division—they augmented Marines from all across the battalion to be part of the mission. So we had guys from Truck Company who were Motor Team Marines, the guys who drove the big seven-ton trucks. We had Comm Marines (Communications) that were there. Even had like a couple admin guys, so it was almost like bakers and candlestick makers, and they just put us all into a platoon. And then it was me and another corpsman who were kind of like the medical. And so whenever they formed the platoon, we all met up and yeah, it was almost like a ragtag group of group of kids. But I mean, like, we immediately bonded, definitely on our first field op (operation). And when we were preparing for deployment, we learned a lot of like, security stuff like how to—like defensive driving and like how to conduct a convoy and all that stuff. So that was really fun. And then when we deployed—you know, like I said, even though we were in an advising role, the Filipinos, you know, they were very active in fighting the conflict there. So it was pretty frequent that there would be mass casualty events. So, a lot of times—'cause the Filipino military guys, what they would do were a lot of night operations. So a lot of times they would go out there—sometimes without even like any NVGs (night vision goggles) or night vision equipment, and there would be a lot of casualties. So of course, me and the other corpsmen, our main job was to assist in those casualties. So, we would go out there, they would evacuate a lot of the Filipino soldiers and even some of the OpFor, the opposing forces, that would get wounded, and they would evacuate them to the local military hospital there and we would assist with anything medical. So yeah, there was a lot of stressful times, a lot of high stress stuff going on. But through all of those difficult times, we bonded a lot. 00:27:19.365 --> 00:27:26.164 How did you stay in touch with family and friends? Did you choose to keep communication with them while deployed? 00:27:26.164 --> 00:28:00.634 Yeah, so luckily for me, I deployed in the 21st century, so we had Zoom—actually I don't think we had Zoom, we had Skype—so I was able to Skype my friends and family back home. I think FaceTime was still a thing back then, so yeah, I was still able to communicate that way. We had the internet in our little fob, if you wanna call it that. So overall, where we were staying at, it wasn't too bad. I wouldn't say it was like resort living, but it was (laughs)—it wasn't too bad. 00:28:00.634 --> 00:28:05.505 What did you do for recreation or when you were off duty while in the Philippines? 00:28:05.505 --> 00:30:46.815 Sure. So, down in Zamboanga, we weren't really allowed to go off base unless it was for—obviously for like official duties. So unfortunately for some of the Marines who wanted to go out and party (laughs) in Zamboanga, unfortunately they couldn't do that. So what we did mostly for recreation was workout a lot. So we had the gym, that was there on our little fob, and yeah, we just worked out a lot. I probably worked out pretty much every day, gained a lot of muscle (laughs). And then we also had like a basketball court, so we played basketball. We had one of our—one of our Marines in our platoon was a MCMAP instructor (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program), so he got me to gray belt. So that was cool. So, learned MCMAP, which is Marine Corps martial arts, and, I learned to hip toss (motions arms and laughs). So that was fun. What else did we do? Oh! So because the deployment was a joint deployment, so it was run by the Army. So how the Army likes to do deployments is if it's, I think, a six-month deployment, then you actually rate four days R&R (Rest and Recuperation). So, it was actually kind of nice. Mid-deployment, I got four days R&R, and I actually got to go visit my family in Cebu. So how they did R&R was you had to go with three other buddies whenever you do that. So most of the other Marines wanted to go to some of the more popular places in the Philippines, like Manila or Boracay, which is, you know, kind of like this resort area in the Philippines. And everybody was going there. And I was like, no, no, no. I was trying to convince my three other Liberty buddies. I'm like, let's go to Cebu. And they're like, where is that doc? I don't even know where that's at. And I'm like, no, it's in the middle of the Philippines. Like, it's a little lesser known but that's even better because then there's less tourists. And they're like, all right, doc, we'll go there. And yeah, they had a time of their life. And so yeah, we went to Cebu—they got to meet my family there, my cousins. And then we also got to take a ferry to Bohol, which is a nearby island, and that's where my dad's side of the family's from. And so they got to meet my dad's side of the family and kind of see the more rural part of Bohol in the Philippines. And yeah, it was definitely a good experience for them to see them experience that. Yeah, I don't know, it's just—it's kind of, I don't even know what the word is—but it's just kind of crazy, like seeing these two different worlds that I never thought would cross together—my military life and my family life, and like my family meeting my military friends. So that was really interesting to see. 00:30:46.815 --> 00:30:55.035 Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual events while you were in the Philippines? 00:30:55.035 --> 00:32:10.605 Yes. Uh, I don't know how (laughs)—how inappropriate can we be with this? (Laughs.) I mean, I can—I'll keep it PG if you want me to, so—(nods, laughs, gives a thumbs up to interviewer.) Yeah, keep it PG. Okay, cool. Yeah there was a lot of humorous things. Well, for one, when we first deployed—so a lot of my Marines in the platoon are smokers. So you know it's ironic that the Corpsman (laughs) was the one who supplied them with cigarettes. But, like a lot of the Marines they have a certain—they like Marlboro Reds. And so they forgot to pack it with them–which, I don't know why they did that—but I was like, don't worry, Doc's got you. And I brought like three big cartons of Marlboro Reds. And then I was like, here you go. And then somebody else on the base was like, Is that the Corpsman passing out cigarettes? And I was like, Hey man, you know, I'm just trying to keep morale up. Like, yeah, my Marines smoke, that's okay. We're deployed but (laughs) we'll work on tobacco cessation when we get back to Garrison. So yeah, that was pretty funny. Man, yeah, there's a lot of fun times, but I don't know if I could share it for this (laughs). 00:32:10.605 --> 00:32:23.095 So let's talk about your end of service. Do you recall the day your service ended? Where were you when your service ended? 00:32:23.095 --> 00:34:04.825 Sure. So I'll backtrack a little bit. So, after I was deployed, I went back to Third Marine Division and I finished that tour in 2014. And then after that, I got stationed at Miramar at the clinic on base there. And then after that duty I met my wife, and that's when I decided I didn't want to move around anymore. I think I wanted to settle, but I still wanted to keep my foot in the door of the military. So that's when I switched over to the Reserves. So when I was in the Reserves, I served with a fourth tank battalion, and I was only there for a short while. And pretty much I just—I wanted to, like I said, I wanted to join the Reserves because I wanted to still, you know, keep my foot in the door with the military. But honestly, the Reserves was just not what I pictured the military being. I mean, no offense to the Reserves, I respect everybody in the Reserves, but it was just, it was not for me. I think if I wanted to be in the military, I probably would've just stayed active duty. So, pretty much, since I was still within my initial eight-year contract, my career counselor pretty much said like, I did have the option to drop to IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) or inactive Reserves and get out if I wanted to. And so I opted to do that. And so I decided—like I said, I got frocked to HM1 Petty Officer First Class. And shortly afterwards—like, I think maybe not even like two weeks after that—that's when I got out of the Reserves, and then that's when I decided to just stay here in California. 00:34:04.825 --> 00:34:14.000 Um, why did you decide to not return home, or where, like, where did you go? California? And then what played a role in that decision? 00:34:14.000 --> 00:35:08.465 Yeah, so I decided to stay in California because, you know, I met my wife and she's from here, and all of her family is here. And, you know, like I said, I mean, I grew up in Missouri—and nothing wrong with Missouri—but I just, that was also one of the reasons why I joined the military too, was to get outta Missouri. So, I just like the vibes here in California. It's, the weather is, you can't beat it. Yes, it's very expensive here, but luckily I've been blessed to have a job where I'm able to afford to live here. So as long as me and my family can afford to stay out here then we'll stay out here. And, like I said, since my wife's family is all here and I have kids of my own now, all the extended family, they offer their help to raise the kids and watch the kids. So instead of having to pay for daycare, we have family. So that's definitely a big reason why we stay out here. 00:35:08.465 --> 00:35:17.175 On the day when it came time for you to end your service, how were you received by your family in the community that you returned to? 00:35:17.175 --> 00:35:42.405 Yeah, so, when I got out of the military, I mean, I was already, you know, like I said, I was surrounded by my wife's family, who was here. My brother, he was actually stationed at Pendleton at the time, so my brother was here, and yeah, I mean, it was pretty much the same. Everybody was already here in California, so yeah, not too much change really. 00:35:42.405 --> 00:35:47.614 How did you readjust to civilian life? Did you work or go back to school? 00:35:47.614 --> 00:39:44.875 Yeah, so adjusting back to civilian life was actually really tough for me. Like I said, being in the military, that kind of made me have a higher standard for myself. And so when I initially got out of active duty I had a whole plan ahead of me. I was gonna go to graduate school—actually while I was active duty, I finished my bachelor's using tuition assistance. And so my plan was I wanted to go to graduate school. And so that's why I got out of active duty. And while I was gonna go to graduate school, I was gonna be in the Reserves. And then while I was in the Reserves, I was also gonna work out of town. I had a job lined up with Scripps (Scripps Health, a major healthcare system in San Diego County). And so I worked at Scripps for only about two months, and I just couldn't handle it. I think the biggest—the toughest thing for me was because, I don't know, I just felt like in the military I had almost like a sense of purpose. Like I put the uniform on and I was proud to do the work that I was doing. And no offense to Scripps, you know, I did the best job that I could, but I just felt like the job wasn't really rewarding at the end of the day. And, I almost felt like I was just another number when I was working there at Scripps. Nobody really paid attention to me or knew who I was or anything like that. And so, yeah, I ended up quitting that job. And, you know, it was, it was a little bit tough on me and my wife 'cause, you know, that was some income that was lost because of that. But, I decided to shift gears and I was gonna focus on the Reserves and do graduate school. But like I said, eventually, I didn't even like the Reserves either, so I ended up quitting that as well. And so two of my three things that I had planned after I got outta active duty fell through, and I almost felt like, you know, I was a failure. And so, that was really tough for me to deal with. I had a lot of anxiety and stress about that, and guilt. And honestly, I didn't really feel better about myself until I started graduate school at Cal State San Marcos. When I got there and started doing the whole enrollment process and I got familiar with the veteran community at Cal State—and seeing how like, great the veteran community was at Cal State, that kind of actually helped me with my transition. Even when I started graduate school, I felt like I was out of place and felt like I had like imposter syndrome. Like most of my classmates when I was going for my MPH (Master of Public Health), they were coming straight out of undergrad. A lot of them were like—well, to me they were like kids. I was like in my late twenties about to be thirty, and they were like in their early twenties, and so they were in a different stage of life from me. And like you know, I was already married and trying to start a family and stuff. So yeah, I had big imposter syndrome when I was in graduate school. But when I met with the veterans at Cal State, like meeting people like you Jason (gestures toward interviewer) and all the people at the vet center, I'd come to find that I wasn't alone. Like everybody else was going through the same struggles that I was going through when I got out of the military. For some people it was even tougher for them. Like I know some people they did their full 20, they retired outta the military, and then they're going to get their bachelor's and literally their classmates could be their kids. And so they must have felt really outta place. And so, yeah, I think just getting to bond with other veterans and realizing we were all in the same boat, that helped me realize that, yeah, I wasn't alone. 00:39:44.875 --> 00:39:47.275 Did the GI bill affect you at all? 00:39:47.275 --> 00:40:17.105 Yes. So like I said, I used mainly tuition assistance to finish my undergrad while I was active duty. But when I got out, I mainly used the GI bill for my graduate school. So, luckily that helped a lot. I was able to pay for my first graduate degree and my master's in public health. And since the GI bill I had a lot left over, that's when I decided to use it for my master's in business administration. And I also pursued that at Cal State as well. 00:40:17.105 --> 00:40:22.364 Did you continue any friendships after service? If so, for how long? 00:40:22.364 --> 00:41:30.405 Yes, definitely. I've kept in touch with almost everybody that I met in the military. I mean, I met a lot of people, but thanks to social media, I was able to keep up with most people. A lot of my friends are still in the military. I actually have one friend that's stationed out at Camp Pendleton and another friend that's about to get stationed there. And so, I still keep tabs on everybody and message them, and it's great to see them, especially even like over the years when I do see them—like a couple of my friends, they came over to the house about a month ago, and it was almost like we picked up right where we left off, and even though we hadn't seen each other for almost 13 or 14 years. So yeah, you know, just reminiscing on all the good times and the nostalgia that we had. Yeah, the friendships that I had in the military—like to this day, like, I don't know, it's definitely friendships that I almost feel like you can't really get anywhere else. 00:41:30.405 --> 00:41:33.585 Did you join any veterans organizations? 00:41:33.585 --> 00:42:40.000 Yes, so, like I said, Cal State, they had a really great veteran community there. So I got really involved at the vet center, especially my last semester at Cal State. That's when I learned about the work-study program. And so I actually worked for a semester at Cal State, and I worked with VTEC (Veterans to Energy Careers) and helped other veterans mainly with their professional development and writing resumes and stuff like that. So that was great to work with them. And right now, currently, I don't know if it's really a veteran organization, but I'm part of the Telesforo Trinidad Committee. So what that is is there's actually a ship called the USS Telesforo Trinidad that's currently—I think it's still being built—but it's the first naval ship that's gonna be named after a Filipino. So, Telesforo Trinidad was actually the first—and I believe only—Medal of Honor recipient that was Filipino. 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:54.000 So now we're coming up on reflections. How has your service impacted your life, your community, your faith, and your family? 00:42:54.000 --> 00:44:34.000 Well, I would say joining the military was probably the best decision I ever made. I mean, for one, like I said, the GI bill was able to cover graduate school for me, and that led me to get the job that I'm at now, and it's able to provide for my family. So, the military was able to help out with that. Also, I am a disabled veteran, and so all the benefits that come with that has also been able to help out a lot with my family as well. Um, let's see—and like I said, all the connections and the friendships that I made through the military, that has been super valuable for me. Not only for networking, but just maintaining those friendships and always having a good support system. Like I said, I'm able to call my friends all over the country if I ever need anything. Like, if I fly to Arkansas, I have a friend out there. If I ever go to the east coast, I have a friend out there. So, having such a diverse network of people from the military like that, that's one of the great things about the military is, just, it's a melting pot of different people, different cultures, different walks of life, different beliefs, backgrounds. Like, I have friends from all over the country, and they really opened my perspective on a lot of things, like my political views, my personal views, my personal beliefs and everything. And I think I wouldn't have gotten that if I didn't join the military. 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:38.934 So, what are some of the life lessons you learned from your military service? 00:44:38.934 --> 00:46:14.054 Oh, man. I've learned a lot of life lessons from the military. Um, let's see—well, for one, the military taught me how to do my taxes (laughs). So, I mean, you know, a lot of kids like, they just kind of wing it and figure it out. But luckily I had a petty officer who was kind of a leader and he was like, Hey, this is how you do TurboTax, and this is how you do this. And I was a 19-year-old kid, and I didn't even know taxes was a thing. My parents always just kind of took care of that. And so, when the end of the year came and they were like, Hey, all the sailors, did you guys do your taxes? And I was like, Oh, that's a thing? I dunno what that is. So luckily I had a mentor that kind of guided me through that. So, life lessons, a lot of pretty much how to be an adult. I got that from the military, which I feel like not a lot of people get that. They'd have to kind of find it on their own. So the military helped me grow up and it helped me mature. Honestly, the military even helped me become a good dad, a good father. Like a lot of my friends, they got married, they had kids, and I kind of saw how they raised their kids and how they had their relationships while they were in the military. And so that kind of shaped how I was gonna be as a father. So, let's see—what other life lessons? That's pretty much the main ones I can think of. 00:46:14.054 --> 00:46:22.034 What message would you like to leave future generations who will view or hear this interview? 00:46:22.034 --> 00:47:51.675 Pretty much, you know, a lot of people have different perspectives of what the military is like and what that is. Growing up, like a lot of people thought the military is you're going to just, like, it's just a job where you just go and you kill people or something like that. Or like, you go out and you be a hero. But the military is just like, it had a lot of different experiences. A lot of people ask me like, is joining the military a good decision? And honestly, it's ultimately up to you—like, what your goals are, what you wanna do with your life. I wouldn't say the military is a good or bad decision. It really just depends on what you wanna do. So for me it was a good decision. And I just want everybody to know, whenever people come and thank me for my service—you know, some people they respond with "you're welcome." I don't really like saying "you're welcome." I just like saying thank you for your support, because, you know, I'm just a person, just like everybody else is and I just got experiences that some other people haven't experienced before. So, yeah I guess I just want people to know that people in the military, veterans, were just regular people who were put into extraordinary circumstances sometimes. 00:47:51.675 --> 00:47:59.565 How did you become associated with the CSUSM campus and the North San Diego County community? 00:47:59.565 --> 00:48:55.474 Sure. Pretty much I got affiliated with Cal State because I was looking for grad schools. Actually my initial—I wanted to go to San Diego State, but that didn't quite work out (laughs), so Cal State was actually my backup, but it was a great decision. I don't regret it at all. Cal State was a great school, and that's why I went there twice, for both of my graduate programs. But I ultimately picked Cal State because of their MPH program. They had a CEPF accreditation (Council on Education for Public Health). I forget what CEPF stands for, but at the time I was pondering the idea of going back into the military as an officer. And so the program accreditations are really important, whenever you try to put in your officer packages. So, CEPH accreditation for an MPH degree was important. So that's why I pursued a degree at Cal State. 00:48:55.474 --> 00:49:13.894 So we're coming up on the conclusions. I'd like to first thank you for taking the time to share your recollections of military service. Is there anything you've always wanted to share about your service or veteran experience that you never had? 00:49:13.894 --> 00:50:05.375 Lemme see. Well, I think like the main thing I wanted to share was the experiences I had with my deployment. Like I said, it's a lesser known theater that not a lot of people know about—the conflict down in the Philippines. And back in I think 2017 or 2018, there was a big siege in a town called Marawi where, pretty much, the Abu Sayyaf had taken over this entire city, and a lot of people died. And you know, the conflict down there in the south part of the Philippines, like I said, not a lot of people know about it, but a lot of people have died. And so I just want people to be aware of what we did down there and the people that we helped. 00:50:05.375 --> 00:50:10.224 What do you wish more people knew about veterans? 00:50:10.224 --> 00:51:33.005 Pretty much, kind of what I said before, you know, veterans are just normal people who just got put into extraordinary circumstances. I mean, I know I didn't get to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan—my brother did. My corpsman brother. He was with the Marines—or as a corpsman he was with the Marines, with the infantry. And that's what I initially wanted to do. I wanted to go over there. But unfortunately the time that I joined was in 2011, so the wars at both of those places in Iraq and Afghanistan were starting to die down. Literally right when I checked into third Marine division, the last rotation to Afghanistan from our unit had stopped. That was the—so I was asking, I was volunteering like, Hey, can I please go to Afghanistan? That's why I joined the military. I wanted to go over there, and as the Marines would say, "get some," but that didn't quite work out. But when they said that there was a deployment to the Philippines, I was like, okay, well, that's the next best thing. So, yeah, I just want people to know that veterans, even though we didn't, like, I would say a large majority of us didn't even serve in a war or in combat, but we all did our part. And, like, if even if we were put into that situation, I think we all still would've performed well. So yeah. 00:51:33.005 --> 00:51:40.675 In your unveiling of the journey, what are the lessons learned from your military experience? 00:51:40.675 --> 00:54:12.385 Lessons learned. Like I said, I learned how to be an adult in the military. So, let's see, what else? I learned how to be fiscally responsible. Let's see. Hmm. Oh, and I also—being in the military, I learned the importance of education. I had a lot of mentors in the military, and some of them were officers. So they went to school and they told me their pathway to success, if you will. And at the time when I joined the military I did a semester at Missouri State and I just felt like college isn't for me. I'm just gonna join the military, make a career out of it. And then like, when I was active duty, when I was with the Third Marine Division, I mean, we were very busy with operations and stuff, and people would mention going to school, and I'm like, I don't even know how you guys have time to go to school. And so I didn't even think about going to school, but when I got stationed at Miramar, it was considered a shore duty. So it was a little less paced for the operations side. So everybody kept saying, Hey, while you're at Miramar, you should go to school. And then I had an HM1 who was kind of like my mentor, and he went and did all of his classes and he was like, "Lacea, you need to go to school too." And I was like, "All right, all right, fine, I'll do it. I'll see how it goes." And I was I think twenty-two, twenty-three at the time, and I felt like going back to school, even though I was a good student in high school, I thought I was gonna have a hard time going back to school and learning again. So I was really nervous, and when I did my first college class, I was like, Wow, this wasn't that bad. And so I started like packing on the classes and, like I said, at the time I was still thinking about the Navy as a career, so I was just doing some classes here and there, just to kind of like build my time. I could even put those classes on my eval to make it like an eval bullet. But then I eventually saw like, oh shoot, I'm stacking more and more classes. I could actually finish my bachelor's. And so, once I finished my bachelor's, then yeah, it was just up and up from there. I was like, okay, next thing is my master's. So, yeah, the military definitely taught me the importance of education, for sure. 00:54:12.385 --> 00:54:13.844 Thank you for your time today. 00:54:13.844 --> 00:54:14.344 Cool. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the &#13 ; creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. &#13 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LaceaJan_BeyerJason_2024-11-08_access.xml LaceaJan_BeyerJason_2024-11-08_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lacea, Jan Michael Letigio. Interview November 8th, 2024. Description An account of the resource Jan Michael Letigio Lacea served in the Navy for eight years. He was frocked Petty Officer First Class HM1 (Hospital Corpsman First Class) before he left the service. Lacea described his service in the Philippines for Operation Enduring Freedom, and he reflected on his own identity as a Filipino American immigrant. He also recounted his return to civilian life, attending graduate school at CSU San Marcos, the support he received from the CSUSM Veterans’ Center, and the life lessons he learned from military service. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-072 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-11-08 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/67921431bd6e9ca8ce1ba1d3c044d068.pdf 7cbc407be4bff4412696fcbf4fb57a8f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lacea, Jan Michael Letigio. Interview transcript, November 8, 2024. Description An account of the resource Jan Michael Letigio Lacea served in the Navy for eight years. He was frocked Petty Officer First Class HM1 (Hospital Corpsman First Class) before he left the service. Lacea described his service in the Philippines for Operation Enduring Freedom, and he reflected on his own identity as a Filipino American immigrant. He also recounted his return to civilian life, attending graduate school at CSU San Marcos, the support he received from the CSUSM Veterans’ Center, and the life lessons he learned from military service. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jan Michael Letigio Lacea Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Adel Bautista Marilyn Huerta Justin Gans Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-11-08 Subject The topic of the resource California State University San Marcos Camp Pendleton (Calif.) Marine Corps Air Station Miramar (Calif.) Missouri State University Operation Enduring Freedom, 2001-2014 -- Philippines San Diego State University United States. Navy United States. Navy -- Hospital corpsmen Veterans -- United States Great Lakes (Ill.) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant San Marcos (Calif.) Fallbrook (Calif.) Cebu City (Philippines) Springfield (Mo.) Okinawa (Japan) Louisiana San Antonio (Tex.) Zamboanga (Philippines) Manila (Philippines) Boracay (Philippines) Bohol (Philippines) Arkansas Marawi (Philippines) Iraq Afghanistan North County San Diego (Calif.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Jan Michael Letigio Lacea License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LetigioLaceaJan_BeyerJason_2024-11-08_transcript Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. San Diego Veterans History Initiative Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/15bbb61db5de803ebb96db5ea3cdd033.JPG 99e2c9a7c70bba96058d7b49f5f58f02 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daegu, Korea Description An account of the resource Lacea with U.S. Navy Hospital Corpsman, Randy Ferrer (Korean Army Medical Rep) in Daegu, Korea Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 19, 2014 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/b2943df6d3d599ed5bcaa4f38ddae61d.jpg 8dbdb798a49c482962fef3b5a6fb5c5d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 2013 Marine Corps Ball Description An account of the resource Lacea posing with Corporal Mark Geppelt at the Marine Corps Ball, Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November, 2013 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/8fe465df3d7d3bc72f114fc0f50acc53.jpg 3a13e1a7aa78b8e19b0b7907f53bffe5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 2014 Navy Corpsman Ball Description An account of the resource Lacea posing with Hospital Corpsmen, Cody Goddard, Dillon Vick, and Gabriel San Pedro at the 2014 Navy Corpsman Ball, Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June, 2014 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/ee334b06de570fa96581da9c1154c5d9.JPG 63c7e636aef083afe39d0115738cd0bb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sergeant Johan Lacea promotion Description An account of the resource Lacea posing with Sergeant Johan Lacea celebration Sergeant Lacea's promotion to E-5, Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June, 2014 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d71760c06f1d24624705473e1964a414.JPG 861ec5d97436c59bfa36798d6d2140f2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Philippines soldiers Description An account of the resource Lacea and Philippines soldiers during Exercise Balikatan, Tarlac, Philippines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April, 2012 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/b8b7016710767f8fd7bd9720df671f11.JPG 2c9a0340b1723ca48dd2e883639167f6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lacea family photo Description An account of the resource A family photo of Lacea, Sergeant Johan Lacea, and Corpsman Howell Lacea at Camp Pendleton, California Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource December, 2011 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/6ba8991cb99a58d06fcaab76957b145a.JPG 3231b71afb9703b046db0161ee43f1ad Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deploying to the Philippines Description An account of the resource Lacea deploying to the Philippines on a C-130 plane flying from Okinawa, Japan, Zamboanga, Philippines Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource October, 2012 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/ce15a5c0ae75f9e2b5784e9cdb835034.JPG 824fb1ff5dd0388185f7d5347504b5c4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Operation Enduring Freedom support Description An account of the resource Lacea and Lance Corporal Josue Alegarbes in deployment to the Philippines in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, Zamboanga, Philippines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource December, 2012 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/5f671f46e326eb21d61207c8fc41eb2d.JPG a3d62b412deeee165a17813a63f2f2ae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wedding day Description An account of the resource Lacea and wife, Jazmin Lacea, on their wedding day in Seaport Village near the U.S.S. Midway Museum, San Diego, CA Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 26, 2018 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/930fdeae5caffd52223a39a8e417d8d5.JPG 99e2c9a7c70bba96058d7b49f5f58f02 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Operation Enduring Freedom support 2 Description An account of the resource Lacea with Lance Corporal Jonathan Flores, and Philippines soldiers preparing to destroy ordinance in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, Zamboanga, Philippines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January, 2013 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lacea, Jan Michael Letigio. Photographs, Various dates. Description An account of the resource Ten photos related to the oral history of Jan Michael Letigio Lacea. Photograph #1 depicts Lacea with U.S. Navy Hospital Corpsman, Randy Ferrer (Korean Army Medical Rep) in Daegu, Korea, 2014. Photograph #2 depicts Lacea posing with Corporal Mark Geppelt at the Marine Corps Ball, Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan, 2013. Photograph #3 depicts Lacea posing with Hospital Corpsmen, Cody Goddard, Dillon Vick, and Gabriel San Pedro at the 2014 Navy Corpsman Ball, Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan, 2014. Photograph #4 depicts Lacea posing with Sergeant Johan Lacea celebration Sergeant Lacea's promotion to E-5, Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan, 2014. Photograph #5 depicts Lacea and Philippines soldiers during Exercise Balikatan, Tarlac, Philippines, 2012. Photograph #6 is a family photo of Lacea, Sergeant Johan Lacea, and Corpsman Howell Lacea at Camp Pendleton, California, 2011. Photograph #7 depicts Lacea deploying to the Philippines on a C-130 plane flying from Okinawa, Japan, Zamboanga, Philippines, 2012. Photograph #8 depicts Lacea and Lance Corporal Josue Alegarbes in deployment to the Philippines in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, Zamboanga, Philippines, 2012. Photograph #9 depicts Lacea and wife, Jazmin Lacea, on their wedding day in Seaport Village near the U.S.S. Midway Museum, San Diego, CA, 2018. Photograph #10 depicts Lacea with Lance Corporal Jonathan Flores, and Philippines soldiers preparing to destroy ordinance in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, Zamboanga, Philippines, 2013. Click on the thumbnails to view the full images in more detail. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011 - 2018 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Madeleine Meyer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Floyd Lai OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LaiFloyd_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-11_access.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. student activism;advocacy;intersectionality;identity OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 Lai, Floyd. Interview April 10th, 2023 SC027-49 00:51:43 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center Education, Higher Human rights Civil rights San Marcos (Calif.) student activism ; advocacy ; intersectionality ; identity Floyd Lai Madeleine Meyer Video LaiFloyd_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-11_access.mp4 1:|12(14)|23(3)|42(9)|55(3)|67(18)|80(14)|100(16)|113(8)|124(10)|138(13)|151(17)|166(2)|179(9)|193(5)|208(8)|223(8)|234(15)|248(10)|261(9)|274(2)|287(7)|302(2)|315(5)|330(6)|343(6)|358(2)|372(14)|385(11)|399(4)|415(9)|431(8)|440(17)|452(13)|467(15)|482(5)|499(8)|513(10)|528(8)|543(9)|557(15)|571(6)|587(10)|601(16)|614(16)|632(16)|645(2)|661(9)|676(4)|691(11)|704(6)|717(11)|735(6)|736(1) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/cdc9cc3afd3d45aade44b574d2e95ada.mp4 Other video 0 Introduction and Background Interviewer Madeleine Meyer introduces Floyd Lai, who was Director of the Cross-Cultural Center from 2011 to 2023. He talks briefly about his family background and childhood, as well as his identity as a Chinese American. Lai then describes his educational journey and how he originally went to school for environmental engineering. After a lackluster experience, Lai decided to switch career paths after interning at the Cross-Cultural Center at UC Irivine. 0 375 Student Activism and Social Justice Despite not having a specific background in courses related to activism or advocacy, Lai describes how the Cross-Cultural Center and different lived experiences impacted his perception. Self-exploration is defined as a major contributor to his understanding of accepting peoples differences. Lai also discusses how living as an Asian American has impacted his goals for activism and social justice. 0 648 The Earlier CCC Meyer asks Lai to remember the CCC when he first arrived in 2011. Back then, the University Student Union had not yet been built, and several student organizations such as the Black Student Center were not yet founded. Coming from University of California Irvine, with one of the first Cross-Cultural Centers, Lai describes how his previous experiences impacted his work at the CCC. As the center expanded, Lai recalls more and more programs and spaces began ; including the Activist Lab, Critical Cougars, and others. Through all of these changes, Lai considers the student body to be more transformative. Every year brings new students, new ideas, and new opportunities for growth. 0 1034 The CCC Programs Lai briefly describes a few of the programs that the CCC offered throughout his tenure. Lai also identifies the four specific areas of focus: developing cultural competency, activism, advocacy, and critical engagement across social identity groups. Some of the programs that facilitate these goals include: Critical Cougars: Unlearn, Relarn, the Activist Lab, as well as the expansion of identity-based student organizations such as an APIDA (Asian Pacific Islander Desi American) center at CSUSM. 0 1540 Personal Growth from the CCC Lai considers the role that the CCC has impacted his personal and professional expansion. Beginning with an internship, and later six years of work, at the University of California's Cross-Cultural Center, Lai describes how different programs, roles, and students have impacted him. He attributes his work at the CCC to expanding his understanding of disabilities, for instance. 0 1810 Challenges at the CCC Considering the different challenges in his tenure as Director of the CCC, Lai recalls how the pandemic forces the entire campus to switch online, and how well it was handled. He also discusses the pushback against Critical Race Theory, as well as to different outreach programs. Overall, Lai stresses his goal in educating the next generation, and that challenges have not deterred him. 0 2194 The CCC Coexistence with Student Identity Spaces As more and more student identity-based spaces open, Meyer questions Lai regarding the role of the CCC. Lai addresses that the CCC has continued to coexist with the expansion of other student centers because of its role in providing a space for those students who do not feel represented elsewhere. Currently, with approval of an APIDA center, Lai acknowledges that the role of the CCC will change as its demographics shift, yet the purpose to advocate for activism and inclusivity will remain. 0 2643 The Future of the CCC Lai considers the role of the CCC in the future, in an ideal world. He considers the financial aspects of being a student, and how the CCC could better facilitate student-incomes. Regarding disabled students, he also considers the potential for programs that coexist and yet go beyond those offered with Disabled Student Services (DSS). 0 2895 Some Favorite Memories From his time as Director, Lai recalls some favorite memories. Working with different student graduate assistants are some of his highlights. He specifically enjoyed watching his first-class of graduates, wherein he began working with a freshman class and witnessed their collegiate careers and graduation. 0 Floyd Lai served as Director of the Cross-Cultural Center at California State University from 2011 to 2023. In this Interview, Floyd discusses the growth and development of the CCC in conjunction with other student organizations. As a self-identified Chinese American, Lai addresses how his personal, educational, and professional background have informed one another. Meyer: My name is Madeleine Meyer and I'm here today in the Kellogg Library interviewing Floyd Lai, director of the Cross-Cultural Center here at California State University San Marcos, (for) the Cross-Cultural Center Oral History Project. The date is Monday, April 10th, 2023, and the time is 4:38(pm). Hi Floyd, could you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your early life? Where did you grow up, what your parents did for work? Lai: Hi, Madeleine. Yeah, so my name once again is Floyd Lai. I use he/him pronouns. And I grew up, I was born originally in, on the island of Oahu, in Kahuku, which is on the North Shore. My parents are both immigrants from Taiwan . So, they immigrated in about the early seventies, to Lāʻie. Went to school there, got married, went to school there, and that's where I was born. Eventually moved around and arrived in southern California when I turned six. And I've grown up mostly in an area called Roland Heights up in the Los Angeles, greater Los Angeles area, county area. Um, since then, my parents, being immigrants did a couple of different jobs. When we first started and they first came over, they were helping out with a restaurant here in California. And so that's what partly brought us here to California. And then over time, my father eventually went into, as an entrepreneur went into his own business. And so we have, since I wanna say about the mid-nineties, he um, we have a manufacturing business in zippers . And so, my--it's a family business, although I'm not a part of it, and so (laughs) I'm indirectly involved, but so they manufacture and create zippers for the garment industry in general. Meyer: Oh, that's really interesting. So what was your educational journey like? I understand that you got your degree in bioengineering from UC (University of California) Irvine, is that correct? Lai: Almost, almost. It was in environmental engineering. Meyer: Oh, okay. Lai: So, yeah, I don't think biomedical or bio was, was quite ready yet. But at Irvine where I went to school, my original, I graduated the degree in environmental engineering. In my junior year I had a(n) internship, which allowed me to go and actually experience what it was like, kind of taking samples of water and you know, doing things. I went and visited government agencies to kind of see a history of what the land looked like prior to the current state, just to see if there were any underwater tanks or anything that would hold anything hazardous. So did that one summer and realized I didn't like it. I didn't see myself doing that for very much longer. And one thing that was different though is that I was heavily involved on campus, and so I was involved in a couple of different student organizations. I interned as a Special Projects Intern at the Cross-Cultural Center. So that was my first introduction to multicultural or cross-cultural centers. And so because of that, it really allowed me to kind of see that I enjoyed working with students and kind of being able to develop programs and being a part of something like that. And it took a mentor of mine, someone I consider a mentor, to tap me on the shoulder and say, “Hey, you'd be really good at this. This is something you might want to consider as a career.” By then I was so far along in my degree that I decided not to change, but rather just complete the degree. And after I graduated college, (I) went into the field of student affairs, which is kind of the work that I do now. And so that's kind of how I got into the pathway of where I am today. My, I decided to work to see if this was kind of the field I wanted to get into. And fortunately, the mentor who I consider someone who kind of guided me on this pathway, left the institution (and) came back, or left southern California, came back and was in a new position and was looking for someone. And so I, that's where I got a job with her, at Alliant International University. It was kind of a jack of all trades ; I learned a lot of different skills. It was a very small institution. And so I learned, I was the Student Affairs Coordinator, but I did a lot of different things while I was there. And so, that was only gonna be one year. That turned into three, and then I finally decided that I needed to go to grad school, so I ended up getting my graduate or master's degree in post-secondary administration and student affairs at University of Southern California. And so, in that process, about a year into my program, there was an opportunity to go back to my alma mater at UCI (University of California, Irvine) and get a chance to work there as a program coordinator. So I was in my graduate program. There was this opportunity, I wasn't sure how this was gonna work, but I decided to go for it. (I) was hired, and so I essentially was doing a large commute between Irvine, downtown LA, and West LA where I lived. And just kind of making that work for the couple years that I was there. That eventually ended up being my full-time position at the Cross-Cultural Center at UC Irvine. I worked there for about six years, and then as I was looking to see what the next step would be in my progression of my career, an opportunity occurred down here at Cal(ifornia) State San Marcos, in twenty-- about 2011. And so, I was hired in June of 2011 to work here at Cal State San Marcos. I've been here ever since. Meyer: Mm-hmm. And you're the longest running program director, right? Lai: I am, yeah. So, we've had, I'm the fifth person that's been in the position as the, at the time, Associate Director of the Cross-Cultural Center. But, I've been the longest serving. Meyer: Okay. Lai: And so I'm going on about, (my) 13th year now that it's 2023, so. Meyer: Okay. Were there any particular instances in your life in which you decided that student activism and social justice was really what you felt passionate about? Was there like any one incident or student you helped or? Lai: Yeah. I don't know if there was one single instance necessarily. I--again, my degree was in environmental engineering, and so someone who has that sort of degree, their course load or their classes are pretty set. I was double majoring at the time or attempting to double major with a degree in Japanese language and literature. Which didn't happen. But--so there was very little time for me to take, you know, extensive sociology courses, ethnic studies courses. I took one Asian American Studies class. But I think those opportunities, along with the work that I did at the Cross-Cultural Center, really opened my eyes to what might be possible. I wouldn't say that I was passionate about the work in that regard, but I think as a student, I really enjoyed the topics and issues that were being brought up. A lot of it was around self-exploration, better understanding my own identities and how it interacted with some of the experiences that I had. I will say that I think something that was seminal was I um, in about nineteen, mid-nineties, about ninety-five or so, the internet was still kind of in its early infancy. This is when we had to go to chat rooms or go to, go to certain rooms to be able to chat online and talk to one another. And I was still, you know, I was new to the technology, but I had um, was in one of the labs and I received a message indicating, that you know from someone randomly somewhere that, you know, pretty much told me as an Asian American that I was ruining his career, his academic career. And that he wanted to basically kill every effing one of us. You know, I didn't know what, how to react to it at the time. I went to the person in the lab, let them know, realized I wasn't the only person that received that message. Turns out I and a bunch of other folks that happened to be in the lab and also happened to have Asian sounding last names, were the first instance of a hate crime over email at the time at UCI (University of California at Irvine). And so that experience was sort of a culminating experience for me when it came to how one's identity can impact their lived experiences. Right? Up until--not that I was unaware of that before, but I think as an Asian American, the experiences I had weren't necessarily equivalent to maybe, let's say a Black American or, someone who might identify as Latinx. There wasn't even that term back then, right? And so those are the things that I think really opened my eyes. And so I got more involved, invested in the work that the Cross-Cultural Center did at UCI, and because of that, that allowed me to explore those areas that I probably wouldn't have if I had continued to go into the field of engineering. I take all of the learning I got, the way I think as an engineer and try to apply it in the work I do today. And so definitely it still serves me in a lot of ways. Um, but it was, I would say that experience coupled with the support that I got from the Cross-Cultural Center and the mentorship that I got, and the opportunities I had to work there that allowed me to find this field of student affairs, and specifically multicultural affairs, is the work that I do. And so, that's been kind of the trajectory and the pathway that I've kind of fallen into. And, you know, like with any position, I don't know how long I'll be somewhere, but there's definitely something unique and special that I've experienced here at Cal State San Marcos that is reminiscent of my time as an undergrad at UCI that I think they're very similar in that at that time, Irvine was not as big as it is now. And it felt very--it was, it felt like it was just, it was just coming into its own. And I feel like Irv-- Cal State San Marcos is in a similar way kind of coming into its own as well. And so I think I enjoy those experiences and why working here has been a great opportunity for me to continue to grow and develop as not only my professional career, but also participating in the student life that occurs here on campus. Meyer: Right. Right. Okay. So oh, you can go ahead and take a drink. Yeah. Did any, could you describe what the Cross-Cultural Center was like when you first came aboard here? Lai: Yeah so, my understanding and I'm a person who, when I learned real early an adage that I, again, one of my mentors said, you know it, you don't, you're not really sure where you're going until you really understood where you've come from. And so I've taken that to heart in a lot of ways. And so, I worked at UCI for about six years and really understood the history. Coming here I had a very similar, I didn't know fully--it's different. It's a different campus. It's a different population of students that I work with. And so, it took some time to kind of understand sort of the history of what the (CSUSM Cross-Cultural) center is. So, it really appealed to me. We at the time were called Multicultural Programs. There was a Cross-Cultural Center. It was up in what is currently now where the University Advancement Office is located in the Commons Area, kind of up there. And I had two offices, that was kind of the center. And then I was a part of the Student Life and Leadership (SLL), which is now has also evolved in, it has a different name now on campus: Student Leadership and Involvement Center now. But back then it was SLL. And I was hired on as the Associate Director of Multicultural Programs. And so what that meant is that I was a part of Student Life, or at that time, Student Life and Leadership. And I oversaw the Cross-Cultural Center, but it was also integrated into much of the other programs, which included orientation at the time, student, student organizations, fraternity and sorority life. It was all encompassed in that department. So, I had colleagues that had a specific area. And then my area was in Multicultural Programs, or the Cross-Cultural Center. We were a small office (laughs). My desk was literally in the middle of everything. No walls, you know, I was just there and everything kind of happened . There was comfortable couches and things but it was, you know, it was busy. It could be loud at times. And so, I had to either kind of zone it out so I could focus on the work, or really develop relationships with the folks and the students that were there. It was, it felt you know, we were still kind of growing in a lot of ways. And so, I used the first couple years to really understand, or at least try to understand where the Cross-Cultural Center at Cal State San Marcos, what its history had been, what its legacy was at the time, and what it could be, and really understanding that. Um, and so that's kind of the first kind of impression I got. I know I did a lot of walking back and forth between my quote unquote office or upstairs. So about, probably about two days or three days after my first day, which was June 11th, I remember that 2011, or maybe it was (June) 13, whatever that Monday was, Dilcie Perez, who was my supervisor at the time, took me to a meeting to talk about the development and construction of the new University Student Union (building on CSUSM campus that houses student organizations) at the time. So, I got a chance to see kind of what was gonna happen within the next couple of years. And sure enough, soon as, you know, this Union the Union was built, we had a much larger space. We--at the time, there were still only the three centers. So, it was the Cross-Cultural Center at the time, (another center) known as the Women's Equity Center, or the Women's Center, I should say. It was before it was called the--what it's current name is (Women and Gender Equity Center), and then the LGBTQIA Pride Center. So it was just those three spaces and so we each had a space, and really it was a lot more square footage, a lot more opportunities to kind of do programs and do different things in those spaces. So, I've seen kind of an, an evolution of how space has affected and been an integral part of what the students experience. Right? And so, they had now a larger space they could call their home and be able to participate in the programming that we did. Meyer: Nice. So, obviously a lot has changed in the years since you have been Director of the Cross-Cultural Center. What do you think some of the biggest transformations are? I mean, obviously the space transformed. Lai: Yeah. I think, you know, students are different, right? I think every year there's a new crop of students that come in, comes in, and so their--the demographic, their experiences are very different. The last couple years with COVID in particular. So there, so I think of, you know the students we have are part of the differences in trying to ensure that we're fulfilling our mission and supporting the students that come in, whatever experiences they have at the time. So, that I think has evolved and shifted and changed. I would say the issues too, I think back when I started, not that it wasn't an issue, but I think questions about diversity, equity and inclusion, weren't as divisive as they feel like right now to some degree. And the ability to have a difference of opinion, or even be diverse for lack of a better word, it seemed like there was less of that animosity or even a question of whether that's even integral or important, than there is now. And so that's been a shift or change that I've seen. Besides obviously the space. I think the mission has shifted and evolved and changed. So as I've gotten a better sense of, one, honoring and understanding what the history of the Cross-Cultural Center was here at Cal State San Marcos. You know, after a couple years, I wanted to put my own sort of spin and, or impact it in a way that I thought would benefit the students that were here at the time. And so, the mission, not that it's evolved, it's kind of--well no--it has evolved in a way that I think is trying to be more --trying to meet the needs of the students that we have currently. So those are some of the things: the programs, the way it's organized as well, programmatically, so that it aligns with our mission. We're trying to be more strategic about that as well. And so those have been some of the things that I think I've seen kind of shift and change, as well as I think just the, just the natural budget cycles, politics and other things that occur on a college campus. Meyer: Can you talk a little bit about the programs that you guys have? Lai: Yeah, yeah. Our current iteration now, we have, our focus is in four specific areas which include: developing cultural competency, activism and advocacy, critical engagement across social identity groups. So, we come from an intersectional lens. And so, recognizing that there is, there are ways that different people and different identities can interact and have unique outcomes. And so how do we explore that a little bit? And then the retention of underrepresented students in ensuring that they stay here and are successful. We have a high number of students who are first generation college students. And so recognizing that there is additional support that's needed. So those are the four sort of main pillars, for lack of a better word, that we have in the Cross-Cultural Center that really round us in the work that we do in the mission of the center. The programs we put on mirror that. So, we have program series, that we kind of--as a guide for our students. When I first came on, I think--and I think with anything we want, I was still learning, and so the students had some set programs that they put on, and you know, it would change and evolve depending on what the student's interests were. And so, it felt like it was not something con-- there was always an underlying thread, but there was not something that felt like it was consistent. And so, probably about five or six years ago, we instituted more of a program series that aligned with the themes that I shared earlier. And so, some of them are direct correlations. So, for example the Activist Lab, that meets our theme of advocacy and activism, it's an exploration of different ways in which students or participants can see who, what activists, who they were, what were their causes, how did they approach creating social change. Protest is absolutely an integral part of it, but it's not the only way that I think, um, students oftentimes think may be the only way. And so really helping to explore the different avenues of creating social changes is what we do within the Activist Lab. The other one we do as far as retention is called Academe &amp ; Me, it used to be called Tukwut Talks: Conversations with Faculty. But it was really about how to create programs that allow students to develop relationships with faculty members, recognizing that they were students themselves at one point, had highs and lows. And you know, and really humanize, I think for lack of a better word, because I think students oftentimes, either if they don't have a question or unsure about having a conversation with their faculty member, they don't. They--what do we talk about kind of a thing, right? And so they often put 'em on this sort of pedestal. And so inviting faculty--and even now we have grad students come in and participate--but let them know that it's okay that they have, they're just like anyone else. Maybe even learning about a particular subject of study that perhaps they didn't even know was something they could study. So that particular--Academe &amp ; Me is really about helping to hopefully create a pipeline of students to go into the professorate or into academia. Again, developing relationships with them and so, that's part of how we hopefully can retain our students. One final thing that we do, well two others I'll speak to. One is Critical Cougars: Unlearn. Relearn. And so that really aligns with the notion of how do we explore those different identities? And in the critical engagements and this around across social identity groups. It's kind of our largest sort of bucket, ‘cause anything can be sort of put in that particular bucket, but it's really about how do we unlearn maybe things that we learned in high school, how do we relearn or even learn for the first time things that we weren't taught necessarily, depending on where we went. And how do we evolve and continue to change and challenge ourselves critically in the thinking that we have. And so that's what that sort of program does. And then finally, I'll speak to something--my identity is, and I didn't, I spoke part of it a little bit earlier when I introduced myself, but my parents are from Taiwan, so I identify as Asian American, specifically Chinese American. And so, currently at Cal State San Marcos, there isn't a physical building, or a center dedicated to Asian Pacific Islander Desi American students. So with that vacuum, I said you know, the Cross-Cultural Center and oftentimes a Multicultural Center has served in that sort of capacity ; where the space is there but the other, like the LGBTQIA or the Women's Center, this Cross-Cultural Center in other, not necessarily here but in other spaces, they've been--they came from that space. And then once they had a critical mass or felt the need, they were established. So in the same vein, we don't have one currently. So because of that, and partly because of my own identity as that, we have a program called Defining Diaspora: Asian Pacific Islander Desi American Identities. Which essentially is just an exploration of that really large group of individuals and identities that fall under that sort of diaspora. And so, a lot of programming is, can be about a specific individual, a particular culture, a particular practice or tradition in those areas. And so that's kind of what Defining Diaspora is meant to do, is to really help to expose students of those identities, or those that aren't and wanting to learn more about to those types of cultures and traditions that are part of that. So those are kind of the programs we do. Underlying all that is really a focus on social justice work. And so, things that my predecessors started, my immediate predecessor, Sarah (Sheikh) started was the Social Justice Summit, which is kind of a three-day, two-night retreat. Which really allows a small group of about forty students the opportunity to explore their personal identities, better understand what social justice, that term, ‘cause I think we throw it out a lot of times. We want, you know environmental justice, this kind of justice. And so, what does it really mean when we talk about social justice? Having an understanding of the dynamics of either oppression or privilege, and really exploring what those concepts are. And then, we hope, and it's you know it's not always perfect, but it's that third day is then a focus as we return or plan or prepare ourselves to come back to campus. How do we become allies or co-conspirators, or how can we better support those communities or identities we may not necessarily have ourselves? And so, that has been something that's gone on for a while, again that predated me, and we've just kind of expanded and grown that. So, now we have in addition to the summit, which has been on hiatus because of COVID but we hope to bring it back this fall, the Symposium which is kind of more of a conference style. And that sprang out of an understanding that even, again, I'm a big proponent of tradition or just what legacies have been left behind. There were you know, faculty and stu-- staff that really wanted to take an opportunity for the campus to explore what social justice means in a conference sort of setting. So whether it's workshops, presentations. So that kind of has evolved into our Social Justice Symposium. And then when COVID hit, we couldn't do either one of those. And so we, my GA, graduate assistant at the time Daniela (Carreon) we, in discussions, we wanted to start a scholars program. And so, it's kind of a little bit of the summit. It's not the overnight, because it's kind of a class setting or curriculum. It's over the course of a couple weeks. Similarly, not a very big class, but very intimate for folks who want to be able to learn about these things and be scholars. And so the hope is that they're all connected in some way. Scholars can help in presenting at Symposium, Scholars can also be some of the mentors at the Summit and retreat. And so that's another area that we focus on in the Cross-Cultural Center, in collaboration now with the other centers, Student Life Centers that exist here on campus. Meyer: In what ways do you think, has your involvement with the Cross-Cultural Center helped you expand and develop as a person and as a professional? I know you've touched a little bit (overlapping dialogue) but- Lai: Yeah. Yeah. No, you know, the work I do, I would say absolutely students are at the heart of the work that we do. And so, as students have evolved and changed in their challenges and their perspectives have evolved, I in similar fashion, I think have learned from that as well. And so--it's not, I say this to students all the time: it's not about saying, “Oh I took this workshop. Check, I'm done with diversity, or I'm done with this topic.” It's an ongoing, you know, lifelong pursuit of recognizing and interacting with people that are maybe different from you. And everyone's gonna have a unique perspective or a unique--I mean there are similar, you know places or, you know people connect to. But everyone's different. And for that reason, I think I've evolved and developed a more nuanced approach in how to not only have the conversation around , um, diversity, equity, inclusion, even topics of social justice. I view my role oftentimes as the Director (of the Cross-Cultural Center) in how do we invite people to have those conversations? Even if they're difficult, even if they're challenging, even if they're divisive. Which I know is so hard to do, because why would I wanna sit across the table from someone who absolutely does not believe I should exist or doesn't agree in a lot of different ways. But I think it's through that process, that I've been able to kind of learn and grow as well on either approaches or ways in which we can kind of bring people to the table to have these types of conversations. It is my belief that I think, and I take that to heart because it's my own experience as I've better understood you know, the various isms, prejudices, biases and whatnot that I am a better person for it. And I'm more aware of situations and things that can be changed to enable folks to feel like they're included as part of that experience, whatever it may necessarily be. So, you know my father is an immigrant as part of his identity. He was also, he was born in 1940, and so he was prior to the polio vaccine. So, he has a disability in the sense that he at the time had a brace, and now it, now he's in a wheelchair. But that allowed me to recognize, I mean, we got so many stairs here at Cal State San Marcos, sometimes it's hard to know where people have accessibility and things like that. But so that's something I you know, I grew up with and I recognized, so I thought, “Oh yeah, I know about disabilities. I get it.” And then more recently at a conference I attended, and this is COVID was still happening, we had the stickers that said, “Hey, if it's green, we can hug each other. If it's yellow, you know, maybe like elbows or whatever. And if it's red, no, I want to stay six feet away,” kind of thing. And so, I was part of a registration group, and I share this in the workshops that I do with students, but I said, “Okay, great. We're done, right? We just gotta do the stickers.” And a colleague of mine said, “Well, wait, what if they're colorblind? How would they know which color to pick?” Never occurred to me, because I'm not colorblind. So, we eventually found a solution. We wrote down, you know, R, Y, and G, so folks could at least see what was written there, regardless of the color. But it's those things, those interactions. And I realized that, you know, it's not until you're either confronted with something or maybe you say something you (laughs) you know, you probably shouldn't have said that you realize or better understand sort of the experience. And so, my hope in the work that I do with the Cross-Cultural Center and the experiences that I've gained, I've learned every, every time I've had an interaction, how I can better hopefully have a future interaction or things that I need to work on myself a little bit more in recognizing. And so it's an iterative process. And so, I think that's been something that I've been able to take away because of the fact that I work in a space like this. Versus a corporate you know, entity or things like that. But because of this, it gives me a really unique perspective on how our society functions and what things we can do to try and really be as inclusive as possible for all. Meyer: So as your time in your role as director, what are the greatest challenges that you believe the center has faced? I know the pandemic probably threw a wrench in everything. Lai: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a big one, right? I think having to pivot within a couple weeks, I think the university did an amazing job. You know--it's hindsight now knowing some of the impacts. But I think in the moment, having to do that, definitely that was one challenge, right? In having to deal now, I think with students who have to relearn what it's like to be in college, ‘cause they really didn't really get that experience or relearn what it means to learn even. Because I think those expectations have shifted and changed. I would say also in my time here, I mentioned a little bit earlier, there is I think more of a--I wouldn't even call it a critical view of, but critical in the sense of like something that is a critique. Less--It's very critical. I think a lot of folks are questioning things now related to--let me think. Oh, I'm trying to, it's blank. It's not coming to my mind right now, but just even the necessity for diversity, equity, and inclusion there are-- Oh, critical race theories, CRT, that's one. Which I think has somehow--education has always been I think viewed in ways, understandably, because tax-- Public education, I'll speak to because tax dollars go into it, and so how can we be most sufficient and effective and so forth. And I get that. But even, you know, things like affirmative action which is, we don't have in California, but even those concepts and ideas of how do we outreach to underserved or underrepresented populations. Those things that I think were differences of opinion or approach with regard to policy has taken a very dark turn in the sense that it's very personal in a lot of ways. And I know and I'm not--I again, I was an engineer(ing major), so I didn't take any sociology or gender equity studies classes. But I think it may be second wave feminism but this, the personal is political, is a truism that I think is in a lot of ways where a lot of the policies and things that are being done are directly targeting certain groups. And so the challenge for me, and I've wondered this as well because I've seen states now, right? And their legislatures look at different ways and approaches, such that for example with regard to students that may go to university in Florida, are getting a very different experience when it comes to interacting or working (with) others. Partly because of what they can't necessarily discuss or talk about. I have colleagues, and I'm sure I think I heard from others that Offices of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion had to rename themselves because they were illegal now to be in some of those spaces. So I've seen that shift in the sense that I think I'm gonna be, I--my goal as an educator is to really help the up-and-coming generational students think differently or to be prepared for the work that they do. Now, it's gonna be compounded by the fact that based on your geography or location or where you go to school, you're gonna have a very different experience of things that you've been able to experience as a student. We often say that going to college is kind of a mini version of real life, but here you can make mistakes and the consequences aren't necessarily like, you know, a lot of times we try to find the developmental approach within Student Affairs. How do we do this differently? How do we, you know, it's meant to be a growing opportunity that oftentimes you don't get when you're out in quote unquote the real world. Things just kind of happen and you--that the consequences are what they are. So, my fear is that oftentimes now, if my goal is to have students be able to understand and interact with someone who has no idea or hasn't necessarily had these same experiences or similar types of experiences, doesn't have to be the same--what's that gonna mean then for our society as a whole? Right? Because again, depending on your geography or where you go to school, you're in a very different kind of educational experience compared to someone else who does. I think that where information comes from, there are some benefits with social media and other things where it has democratized and allowed multiple--even filming things, catching things that, police brutality and things like that. So a very democratized, but now the source of where things are and having some level of information literacy and recognizing where it's (media) coming from it, what's the purpose of what it is, and where's the quote unquote truth and where do you suss it out, is another challenge I think that I'm seeing as well in the work that we do. And trying to, we used to start with the same set of facts, and now the question is, “Are we still in, are we talking about the same set of facts or not?” (laughs) And so there's again, some of that that I think sort of needs to happen. And so I see that play out in the work that we do because, you know I may start with like, “Hey, so this has been the experience,” and someone might say, “No, that's not.” And so then I want to learn more about where that is. But it's not necessarily always productive, I guess. And so that's where I see some of the of the challenges in the work that we're doing with these types of spaces, Cross-Cultural Centers or Multicultural Centers. Meyer: It's the politicization of something that shouldn't be. Yeah. Lai: Yeah. In a lot of ways. I mean, I could say this, you know, this notion of public health and how politicized even with regard to COVID, right? The notion of--and some of this is cultural you know it's natural for me to think in terms of the collective, because that's you know in Asian cultures broadly speaking there's a collectivist sort of mentality in how that's supported. America has a very individualistic streak, which is you know it's not a bad thing. I think where the challenge comes in is where does one's, where is one's freedom impinged upon and where it's not? And that's been debated for a long time with free speech and lots of other things, but it has been politicized even in areas like public health to a lot of degrees. And so that's, yeah. So those, they're not new challenges per se, but there are new approaches to how do we have these types of conversations, or how do we help educate and teach about these things in a way that hopefully is broadening and enlightening. So. Meyer: So what role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexist with the expansion of identity specific spaces like the Black Student Center and the Latin /x Center? Lai: Yeah, that's a great question and one that I wrestle with because I don't know if I necessarily have an answer myself. You know, I started at the Cross-Cultural Center at UC (University of California) Irvine which is one of the first centers, and this is the history that was drilled into me. Second only at the time at the UC system to a University of Washington, at a time when I think resources were scarce. And so, it made sense to start from a collective cross-cultural sort of center and space. And I would say even for, depending on where whatever campus you're on, either resources were tied or made sense that collectively these were cross-cultural or multicultural spaces. They weren't enough, you know. We have students, understandably within the Black communities, BIPOC, so Black, Indigenous, People of Color communities who said, you know, “Okay, this is a good start, but it's not meeting the needs that we have.” And so that's why these spaces then, you know , like a Black Student Center or other spaces have kind of evolved. The question then becomes: well where does then, once these things have evolved and come out of necessarily this space, what then becomes the role of this space where it started and how does it evolve and change? And that's what I've been wrestling with myself because--and I'm not the only one. University, UCSD, San Diego, they started with the Cross-Cultural Center and now they've got a Black Student Center, Indigenous Center, and all these other additional spaces. And so, it's been trying to figure out, besides programmatically, besides the history months or the heritage months, what are the ways in which they can interact one with another? And so, it's gonna be different on each campus. But I think the conclusion for me has been, you know, the Cross-Cultural Center is essential, especially if there's a belief and understanding, which a lot of my colleagues have, about the notion of intersectionality. We're more than just one-dimensional pieces. I'm, you know, I'm Chinese, but I'm also American. Identify as a cisgendered male. All of those things play with one another in the experiences that I have and/or the choices and decisions that I make. And in the same vein I think, there's always gonna be a place for a cross-cultural center or multicultural center, because these unique and specific spaces are serving a purpose. They're helping Black students getting the support they need because they either, whether it's cultural validation, whether it's just being with someone who doesn't question (laughs) why you're there. Or isn't peppering you with questions about something they may not be familiar with, which, you know, naturally happens. “Oh, what about this? Why do you eat this food? What's that?” You know, those types of things. And I think in most situations it'd be great, but there is an instance where I think there's fatigue in having to explain yourself all the time or, and so sometimes it's nice to just be, when you go into a space. Which I can see there's why there are certain spaces, whether it's the Latin /x Center and so forth. So, I think some of it depends on the landscape of the campus of where a particular space may be at. Here, on our campus, for a long, long time, we just had the Cross-Cultural Center, which is the first one, and it wasn't necessarily born out of protest. Students didn't demand it, it was just, as I understand the history, administrators had said, “You know, we want to be prepared for the 21st century student here in North County.” And so, we think this is important. So we, you know, create this space. Soon thereafter, I want to say it was the Pride Center, and then, or maybe the other way around, the Women's Center and then a Pride Center that, you know, were under student government, ASI, at the time. So those were the three centers for a long time. And then, you know Latinx students said, “We need a space. We're over fifty percent of the population, where our needs are not being met.” You know, and I for a long time, and I and because this is (laughs), I think I had a hard time sort of separating myself and not viewing it as a failure on my part, you know. And students would say, “Oh, it's not you, it's not you. We just need this space.” And I couldn't quite understand, “Well, I know you're saying it's not me, but what could I do to help support this population that we're not doing now?” And so, that was what was going on in my mind. And it took me a couple of well, it took a co--one person in particular and other colleagues to say, “You know, don't get caught up in that.” And eventually I was okay, right? Like, it makes sense that there are more of these spaces because that just provides additional support and resources for these communities. So, that should not be the issue, and you shouldn't get caught up in that. But, you know, it's hard and it--your pride takes a little bit of a hit when you're like: well, what am I not doing that is, that you need a separate space to occur? You know, in that same vein, and eventually there'll be most likely well, I know that the President (of CSUSM, Ellen Neufeldt) has agreed to an Asian Pacific Islander (and Desi American ; APIDA) space here at Cal State San Marcos. And so, the programming that you know, is near and dear to me, doesn't mean I can't do it but, you know, instead of redundant programs, it'll probably go to a future APIDA center. And so, it's figuring out, I think what that role is. And I wish I could say I had a great answer, but I do--I think what I've resolved myself to, or resigned myself to understand--that's probably not the way right way to say it, but is that there will always, I think, be a place for a Cross-Cultural Center or Multicultural Center space. What we do in that is gonna vary. And I've had to adjust. So that's the themes that I shared earlier. And the purpose of, in our mission and how we kind of structure what we do is intentional because it avoids or tries not to step on sort of the toes of the other centers and spaces, right? They have their own things that they do and they support the students. We all have different lenses through which we try to do the same work. And so, my role I think, as a Cross-Cultural Center is how do we build community? How do we bring these spaces together? And being more of a connector is something I've kind of started to better understand as far as what I think this, the role of future cross-cultural center or multicultural center spaces that maybe dealing with this might be is, is how do we connect these communities and keep them together in some way. And continue to find those gaps, those spaces where students may not-- An example is what if I'm multicultural or multiracial? I don't feel like I belong in the Black Student Center, or I don't feel like I belong in the Latin /x Center if I'm both Black and Mexican. And so, I think that's where a space like the Cross-Cultural Center or a multicultural center could still serve as a purpose in exploring those identities, helping them to navigate the complexities of what that entails ; as well as their gender, sexual orientation, all of that in helping them to decide that. So, I think that's what I've come to understand. But the--you know, the verdict's still out on what the (laughs) what that is, and our students keep changing. So, you know, there could be other things that we need to address and figure out as we move further along. But my hope ultimately is that whatever it is, that it'll still continue to serve the needs of the students that are coming to our university and to the institutions that they are applying to. Meyer: What direction do you think the CCC should grow in from here? Lai: Yeah. If I had my (laughs)-- Meyer: If you had your, if you had your dreams. Lai: Of course. You know I think I would love to, and we're kind of moving in this direction, I would love to figure out better ways to support students financially. Whether it's through scholarships or other things. We are as part of I think this project as well, we're celebrating our 20th anniversary. Which you know, we're still pretty young. We're still kind of just getting out of our teen years, right? Into our twenties. But it's a great milestone I think, with regard to being here on this campus. And so, I think financially looking at ways in which we can support our students. I would love to expand our staff as well. I think-- t's funny, I've been the longest serving director, but I've also been a staff of one. And so, in some ways I wonder if I've, if I'd been successful, if there would've been more, other staff members a part of it. But I would love to see more staff members, because I think there just isn't you know-- students' needs are getting more and more complex that require more time, and there's only one of me and I'd like to see other staff come in and be able to assist the students that are here, that may need that support. I think there are other areas that we can explore as well when it comes to, you know, we have a Disability Student Services, but their focus really is on providing the support for students to be successful. Not necessarily doing programming to help folks understand what those (services) are and how we can make the--make some changes or differences. People that are neurodivergent, there's just a lot of different areas and identities that haven't necessarily been explored. But I think those would be opportunities for a Cross-Cultural Center to kind of be able to provide space or to provide programming that can help other students understand not necessarily what it's like, but better understand those conditions and/or maybe consider different ways of thinking about how they, when they have the opportunity or are placed in a position where they can make a difference, that they're hopefully considering and thinking about those areas that they themselves perhaps are privileged in. Where they don't have to worry about or they don't have to think about it in any way. And so that level of work, I think in programming and approaching and supporting those communities, I think is other areas where we can see the Cross-Cultural Center sort of grow. I think there's the conversation about the divisiveness in politics in other ways that, you know, a big part of what I'm doing now and hopefully will continue to do, has been working with the Civility Campaign (program by the CSUSM Dean of Students) on our campus. They kind of, when I first started here at Cal State San Marcos, the, at the time, this campaign started around the same time, so I've been connected to it for a long time. But I've seen the significance and importance of how do we have dialogue and conversation--particularly with someone who may just be of a completely different belief system--but hopefully still get nuggets of wisdom or at least try to understand one another. A lot of, I don't want to make or simplify to say if we just saw you know, held hands kumbaya, that it was gonna be that easy. I don't think it's that easy, but I think that is the work that is necessary for students, particularly at a time when perhaps they've come from very homogeneous communities or they just have never been introduced to someone. To be able to find ways in which those kinds of opportunities can help them to grow and be eventually a better graduate of Cal State San Marcos, because they've had experiences or programs that have introduced them to these types of things that they haven't necessarily done before. So, I think long-term those are some things I'm hoping that the Cross-Cultural Center can play an active role in supporting or perhaps being a big part of really proactively engaging our students in a way that again, makes those students that graduate from Cal State San Marcos really the premier students here in North County. And who go on to become leaders and folks that are making these decisions in the community. Meyer: I'm sure you have a lot, but could you share a few of your favorite memories from your time at the Cross-Cultural Center? Lai: Yeah. You know, it's hard to think about. I mean, there's so many different ones. I think I value the different student leaders that have worked with me. From the very first time, when we called them peer educators at the time. Because I'm a staff of one, I rely heavily on my student staff to really help in getting a lot of the work and the mission of the center done. And so, some of my fondest memories are those different folks that have worked alongside me. Getting to know them, getting to hear about their experiences here on campus. Now seeing them graduate as alumni and really kind of, you know, off in the world and kind of doing some amazing things. I, in Higher Ed you know, I recall after my fifth year that was the first year that I had a student that I knew was a freshman or a first-year student that I saw all the way through and graduate. You know, I've had other students that graduated along the way, but the--that was the first group that I knew from the first time they stepped foot into campus all the way through till they graduated, even transfer students as well. And so, that's one I think fond memory. I love the staff that, I love the staff that I work with now, but also even before when I was part of Student Life and Leadership, Dilcie Perez (formerly in charge of Student Life and Leadership) was my supervisor. And I think she instilled a lot of laughter and like just fun stuff in the work that was oftentimes can be hard and challenging. And so, those are some fond memories. We have a unique tradition here at Cal State San Marcos around Halloween, where a lot of folks dress up, in--within Student Affairs I should say. (laughs) But it's a big deal, and I don't think I fully realized it until I first came to this campus and experienced it for the first time. But some of the different traditions and things like that have been fun and interesting to see. I--commencement is always a fun time where a lot of the memories that I have that I can recollect. When I have had the chance, a lot of us volunteer and help support the program. So, being able to see them (students) cross the stage, see their families and watch them witness their students cross the stage. And again, a lot of them are first generation, first in their families (to graduate college) and the joy and the excitement that they see, those are some memories that I'll definitely keep for a long time. Because I think that is what grounds me. And I know a lot of my colleagues say this, but commencement is kind of, it--the students, yes. But also seeing them achieve and be able to get to that point. And the excitement is also refreshing and kind of a reminder of the work and why we do it. So, when we deal with policy issues or just challenges with bureaucracy of the university, it's always nice to remember those moments because then it reminds at least me of what and why I do the work that I do, and why it's so critical and important. Or at least I would like to think that it's a big part of their experience that they have here at Cal State San Marcos. Meyer: Well, thank you so much, Floyd. You've been a pleasure to interview and yeah, thank you so much. Lai: Thank you. Thanks for taking the time. Meyer: All right. That was great. (laughs). https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LaiFloyd_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-11_access.xml LaiFloyd_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-11_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lai, Floyd. Interview April 10th, 2023. Description An account of the resource Floyd Lai served as Director of the Cross-Cultural Center at California State University from 2011 to 2023. In this Interview, Floyd discusses the growth and development of the CCC in conjunction with other student organizations. As a self-identified Chinese American, Lai addresses how his personal, educational, and professional background have informed one another. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-49 Subject The topic of the resource California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center Civil rights Education, Higher Human rights Racism -- California -- Irvine Student Success University of California Irvine. Cross-Cultural Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-10 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Floyd Lai Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Madeleine Meyer Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Irvine (Calif.) San Marcos (Calif.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos Language A language of the resource English Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Floyd Lai Activists and activism Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience Cross-Cultural Center oral history project CSUSM history