11
10
181
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Ryan Willis
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ilima Kam Martinez
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=MartinezIlimaKam_WillisRyan_04-07-23.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Martinez, Ilima Kam. Interview April 7, 2023 SC027-027 00:53:41 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible with the generous funding of the Ellie Johns Scholarship Fund at Rancho Santa Fe Foundation and the Library Guild of Rancho Santa Fe. California State University San Marcos COVID-19 (Disease) and the arts COVID-19 Pandemic, 2020- Hawaii -- Culture Hawaii -- Social life and customs Hula (Dance) San Diego County (Calif.) Ilima Kam Martinez Ryan Willis m4a MartinezIlimaKam_WillisRyan_2023-04-07 1:|29(6)|40(14)|68(17)|104(25)|104(118)|137(6)|149(1)|190(31)|190(159)|190(294)|207(6)|223(2)|229(35)|238(41)|246(1)|263(55)|280(4)|310(42)|313(55)|319(32)|327(97)|346(16)|366(8)|368(24)|377(4)|409(5)|416(10)|419(98)|419(213)|419(310)|430(7)|450(57)|461(20)|474(17)|480(77)|521(19)|526(2)|534(71)|534(185)|545(47)|557(11)|570(23)|585(3)|593(24)|595(82)|651(8)|663(22)|672(4)|688(103)|688(215)|715(19)|732(4)|743(1) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/5fd0201c55bc12a13a23cf3cc706c049.m4a Other audio 30 Chapter 1: Where were you born? Ilima explains that she was born in San Diego, California and was raised locally in both Oceanside and Carlsbad. California ; carlsbad ; oceanside ; San Diego 44 Chapter 2: Childhood and Family Ilima speaks about growing up in predominantly Caucasian communities and schools. She then talks about her family including her father, who was a retired civil engineer from Pearl Harbor, Hawaii by the time Ilima was born. Since her father was retired, Ilima spent most of her childhood being raised by her father. Childhood ; father ; pearl harbor 147 Chapter 3: Did you spend a lot of time in Hawaii growing up? Any interest living there permanently? Ilima explains that she spent many summers with her two half-sisters and dad in Hawaii. She then admits that she always thought she would eventually live in Hawaii full time, and still hopes for this in the future. family ; Hawaii ; summer 211 Chapter 4: Any influential family members or friends growing up that you really looked up to? Ilima's dad was very influential in her life, as she explains that he was always present growing up and acknowledges that he was working at Pear Harbor at the time it was attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941. bombing ; Pearl Harbor ; WWII 305 Chapter 5: Did your father ever share his experience at Pearl Harbor? Ilima explains she did not even know her father was a civil engineer at Pearl Harbor at the time the island of Oahu was bombed until his 80th birthday party. Her father would sometimes begin talking about it, but never elaborated on the experience, always staying modest and humble. Civil Engineer ; Pearl Harbor ; Tennis Instructor 449 Chapter 6: When did you first take an interest in Hawaiian culture? Since she was the youngest of her siblings and the only one not born in Hawaii, Ilima always yearned to be connected to the island and the culture. She did not fully recognize the uniqueness of her heritage until she was in middle school when she saw a hula performance,which propelled her on her journey of learning hula, serving as an anchor in her life. Hawaiian culture ; hula ; ukulele 619 Chapter 7: Teaching hula and opening her own hālau Ilima shares that she opened up her own hālau, a traditional school in Vista, CA. She then explains that hālau is viewed as a place for family in Hawaiian culture, and how hula operates like a family. hālau ; hula ; vista 719 Chapter 8: Passion for elders (kūpuna) and volunteer work Before the COVID-19 pandemic, Ilima volunteered at the Oceanside Senior Center teaching elders (kūpuna) how to dance hula. She explains why Hawaiians hold their kūpuna in very high regard. hula ; kūpuna ; Oceanside 794 Chapter 9: Can you elaborate more on the importance of hula? Ilima expands on why hula is so important in Hawaiian culture as it encompasses mental, physical, and spiritual components.She then admits that hula makes a positive impact on elders (kūpuna). body ; hula ; kūpuna ; mind ; spirit 901 Chapter 10: The challenges of Covid-19 Ilima dives into her own personal struggles with the COVID-19 pandemic and the importance of being together in Hawaiian culture. Covid-19 ; hālau ; hānai ; Hawaiian community 1043 Chapter 11: Influential hula instructors Ilima talks about one of her mentors, Kawaikapuokalani Hewett, an enormous figure in Hawaiian culture hula ; Kawaikapuokalani Hewett ; kumu ; mentor 1337 Chapter 12: Misconceptions about Hawaiians Ilima addresses misconceptions of Hawaiians, and that Hawaiians identify themselves by their lineage and ancestors and not by blood quantum. misconceptions ; stereotypes 1504 Chapter 13: When did you begin spreading and preserving traditions of Hawaiian culture? Ilima knew as a young adult that she was going to make it her mission to practice Hawaiian culture despite not being born and raised on ancestral land, and wanted to provide other Hawaiians that also did not live in Hawaii a platform to partake in Hawaiian traditions. This leads Ilima to discuss further her motivation in opening her hālau, creating an accessible and affordable place for all to learn. Ilima introduces her nonprofit organization, UMEKE, which provides access to Hawaiian culture such as hula in an authentic way for all, regardless of ethnicity or race. accessible ; hālau ; hawaiians ; hula ; UMEKE 1826 Chapter 14: When did you first establish UMEKE? Ilima founded her nonprofit in October 2021. 2021 ; nonprofit ; UMEKE 1870 Chapter 15: Was there anyone that helped you get UMEKE up and running? Ilima has a huge support system, especially elders and female role models within the Hawaiian community that have all played a significant role in the success of UMEKE. Native Hawaiian Community ; role models ; UMEKE 1922 Chapter 16: What are you most proud of to this point with UMEKE? Ilima states that she is most proud of a grant that her organization created to introduce hula (and ukulele) to a local elementary school that has a large Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander population. Accessibility ; Kids ; Native Hawaiian ; Pacific Islander 2021 Chapter 17: Filing a need in the community There has been an abundance of opportunities presented to Ilima and the UMEKE team since 2021, which Ilima believes demonstrates the need for her organization within the San Diego community, and hopes for projects to continue to float her way. goals ; UMEKE 2127 Chapter 18: Pursuing an education at CSUSM Ilima explains why her children played a vital role in her decision to attend California State University San Marcos, and why she decided to pursue a bachelor's degree in indigenous anthropology. She recounts her time and experience in school as a " ; non-traditional student" ; and the challenges she faced, along with gaining a new perspective. CSUSM ; indigenous anthropology ; Kumeyaay ; Luiseño ; Non-traditional student 2512 Chapter 19: Southern California, Asian, and Pacific Islander Festival Ilima talks about the upcoming Southern California, Asian, and Pacific Islander festival where she is the co-creator. Ilima elaborates on her multi-ethnic background and wanting the community to know that this event is for everyone and to learn about API (Asian & ; Pacific Islander) culture. Asian ; Festival ; Pacific Islander ; Southern California 2871 Chapter 20: How many cultures represented? How did you go about contacting these different groups? Ilima estimates over twenty different cultures represented at the API festival. Thanks to her close relations within the Pacific Islander and dance community, it was easy for Ilima to get other groups to attend and participate. African American Community ; arts ; Pacific Islander Community ; San Diego 3038 Chapter 21: Getting involved and growing the community Ilima stresses that anyone from any background or ethnicity would be a welcome ally in promoting Hawaiian and indigenous culture within the community. ally ; allyship ; community 3098 Chapter 22: What are you most proud of and what has brought you the most joy in life? Ilima's children are what she is most proud of in her life, as she has been able to instill and teach her children about Hawaiian culture and they will be able to pass those traditions on to future generations. Children ; future generations ; Hawaiian traditions ; knowledge sound Ilima Kam Martinez is a California State University San Marcos alum and the founder and President of UMEKE, an organization that promotes and preserves Hawaiian culture through hula dancing. In this interview, Ilima discusses her upbringing, the influence and relationship with her father, the importance of hula in Hawaiian cultures, the challenges she faced during the Covid-19 pandemic, her passion for elders, her mentors, going back to school to earn her degree, and her goals for UMEKE moving forward. Ryan Willis: Alright. Hello, this is Ryan Willis, and today I am interviewing Ilima Kam Martinez for the California State University San Marcos Library Special Collections oral history project. Today is April 7, 2023, and the time is 1:47 PM, and this interview is taking place at the University Library. Ilima, thank you so much for interviewing with me today. Ilima Kam Martinez: Thank you for the invitation. Willis: Of course. So, let' ; s go ahead and start off, um, from the beginning. Where were you born? Martinez: I was born here in San Diego, California, and raised here in both Oceanside and Carlsbad area. Willis: Perfect. And if you don' ; t mind, can you tell me a little bit about your childhood? Uh, what was it like growing up for you? Martinez: It' ; s just-it' ; s always an interesting question because I think I will answer that much differently than I would' ; ve say, you know, uh, 25 years ago. Um, I-- attended schools in Carlsbad, which is a predominantly, you know, affluent Caucasian community. And coming from a really diverse background, um, I, uh-- let me think. Willis: Yeah, yeah. Take your time < ; Martinez laughs> ; . Not a problem. Martinez: Um, that really set me on the path that I find myself on today. I grew up with both parents in my life. Two sisters, two older sisters. I' ; m the youngest. Um, my father was a retired civil engineer from Pearl Harbor. So he had me, you know, by the time I was born, he was already at an age where he was retired. So, I spent most of my time with him and being raised by him. Willis: Okay. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: That' ; s really interesting. So, you said your father worked in-at Pearl Harbor? Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: So did you spend a lot of time in Hawaii growing up? Martinez: I did. So, I also have two half-sisters, that remained in Hawaii, from my father' ; s first marriage. And, when I say half-sisters, that' ; s just, more literal than anything there. So I spent a lot of time, with my dad and my sisters during the summer times growing up. So we often would visit-- Willis: Gotcha. Martinez: Hawaii. Willis: Did you ever have any interest in living there full-time? Or was it just more of like, oh, we' ; ll just, you know, visit here and there? Martinez: I always thought I would. I always thought that I would, eventually wind up there. Um, and I' ; m not totally disregarding the possibility of that happening in the future. But yes, I do hope to find myself back there one day. Willis: That' ; s awesome. Yeah. I' ; ve always wanted to visit, but never have to this point. Um, were there any influential family members or friends growing up that you really looked up to? Martinez: I would have to say my dad. Willis: Your dad. Martinez: Yeah. My dad was, he was so, he came from a, a generation right, where it was very, um, old school. You know, he was working at Pearl Harbor at the time that it was bombed. And so he, he, although he wasn' ; t-- he came from a generation, that was not especially affectionate or maybe verbalized, you know, their, their love for their families and friends, but always showed it, you know, in by example. Always being present with me, always, you know, taking me to, you know, activities. And, so although he might not have been, you know, that ty-not typical, but extremely affectionate or, you know, verbalizing love that he was very instrumental in what I would consider to be a really happy childhood. Willis: Right. Yeah. That' ; s awesome. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: So you said that he was actually at Pearl Harbor, though when the bombing took place? Martinez: He was mm-hmm. Willis: Wow. So what kind of stories did he have < ; Martinez laughs> ; regarding that? Or was that something that he kind of just didn' ; t like to talk about? Martinez: He, it' ; s funny because I actually didn' ; t even know he was a civil engineer at Pearl Harbor until his 80th birthday party. Which took place in Hawaii. In his retirement he was actually a tennis instructor for the Carlsbad Parks and Recreation for twenty years. That' ; s what I always thought that he was. < ; laughs> ; To me, that' ; s what my dad did for a living. Willis: Right. Martinez: Oh, he' ; s a tennis instructor! < ; laughs> ; . And when somebody, you know, was giving a speech at his birthday party instead he was a civil engineer, you know, I' ; m already a young adult at that point, right? At Pearl Harbor. I was, I had no idea. But that was typical of my dad. He was very, very humble. Um, very modest. And so, it probably shouldn' ; t have surprised me, but yeah. He didn' ; t talk about much about his experience, at Pearl Harbor at the time. Later on, you know, when he, so he had suffered a major stroke in his eighties and, had moved in, with my family and I, and so I was his sole caregiver during about a span, about, of about 10 years. And things would, he would start to talk about it but never really elaborate. And, and I just always, you know, knew better than to, to pry that he would tell me what I was meant to know. Willis: Right. Martinez: What he felt that I should know. Willis: Yeah. If you didn' ; t find out about it until you were, you know, a young adult. So that kind of-- < ; laughs> ; Martinez: Right. Willis: Explains it right there. Like yeah, you probably didn' ; t want to go there. Martinez: Exactly. And, and my dad was such a, he was such, a planner, right? Like, he was always very organized, always had things in place. So he actually had written his own obituary several years before he even had his stroke. And so it was actually through his obituary that he wrote that I learned a lot about him. Willis: I see. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: That' ; s fascinating. Martinez: Mm-hmm. < ; laughs> ; Willis: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: So kind of along the lines of Hawaiian culture, when did you first take an interest in it? And was there a point in your life where you kind of knew that that was something that you really wanted to focus on in your life, or even with a career? Martinez: I, I think that so being the youngest of my siblings, I was the only one who was born here in San Diego. All my siblings, all my sisters were born in Hawaii, raised in Hawaii. And so I feel like there was always that yearning, you know, to be connected to Hawaii. And, um, it' ; s really interesting because what I didn' ; t know at the time in my upbringing, you know, with my dad, what I didn' ; t realize was very special and unique to Hawaiian culture? I didn' ; t even realize that' ; s what it was until, until later on. Right? Just, you know, maybe the foods we ate, the music my, my dad would play, he was a " ; slap < ; unclear> ; guitarist." ; He played ukulele. Um, but, it, to me, it was just my home. Right? So I think that it was pretty, I think I wanna say sometime around maybe middle school that I had seen a hula performance. And I remember it having such an impact on me at that moment that I was like, ahh! I don' ; t know, there was just this instant connection, although I had seen, you know, hula before, but it was just this one particular moment. And so, that was when I had asked my dad, I would like to take hula classes, but again, I mean, I' ; m in Carlsbad, right? And like where, where do you even find something like that? And, and, um. But we, we did. And so he, enrolled me in classes at that time. And it' ; s been a lifelong journey of learning ever since. And just something that I' ; ve always felt, so it, it' ; s been the constant in my life right? Where I could go, always rely on hula to, to, um-- it was just a, an anchor, you know? Right. No matter what else is going on in my life, hula was always and still is that anchor for me, that makes me feel safe. Willis: Right. Martinez: Yeah. Willis: That' ; s so cool. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, because I know that we, had talked in our pre-interview specifically about hula and how important that is to Hawaiian culture. I understand that you actually teach it as well. Martinez: I do < ; laughs> ; , I do. I have a hālau in, which is a traditional hula school in Vista. I just opened up the hālau oh gosh. We just celebrated our fourth anniversary. Um, and it' ; s been, it' ; s been wonderful. Um, I think for those that have not had experience in hālau it' ; s, it can be challenging to understand, but hālau equates for a lot of people family, right? Like in its essence, yes, it' ; s a school of hula, but really it' ; s in, its, in its foundational form it' ; s about family and it works and operates very much like a family. So sometimes I wonder if it was really that I wanted to open the hālau for < ; laughs> ; , you know, teaching hula or if it was for the purpose of being able to provide a home and a family for, for students. Willis: Right. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: That' ; s awesome. You also mentioned that you have a passion for elders, and I know that you were teaching them as well pre-Covid. Is that correct? Martinez: Pre-Covid I was volunteering at the Oceanside Senior Center. And I think it also again goes back to my dad. I think a lot of things < ; laughs> ; will go back to my dad. He was, I mean he was fifty-eight years old when I was born, and I think about that and it just kind of blows my mind. And as being his caregiver, kūpuna or elders in Hawaiian culture are so, I think that' ; s one of the many unique things about Hawaiian culture is that we, help, hold our kūpuna in such high regard because we know that their experience, we know that their, the lives that they have lived and their experience far surpasses ours. So we always know to go to them and respect, you know, the knowledge that they, that they bear. So yeah-- Willis: And I think you also mentioned that part of the reason why you' ; ve really enjoyed teaching the hula to seniors or elders is because it exercises their mind not just their body, right? Like you' ; re just kind of focusing on the whole package there. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit more on that? Martinez: Yeah. I mean, hula at its core is encompassing of, mental, physical, and spiritual, which you know, I' ; ve learned that not everybody realizes or may know that. And so, when you' ; re, when I' ; m teaching with kūpuna, having those three facets ; that physical, mental and emotional part I have seen has been such, has had such a huge impact on them. You know, just the simple act of coming together, of sharing meals together, which we do a lot, < ; laughs> ; The cognition that goes into learning choreography, I have seen such an a really impressive trajectory, upward trajectory in how much now that my kūpuna class can retain as opposed to when they may have first started dancing. Right. I think that, watching that, like being a witness to this, this, how it can, how hula can positively impact them, is just, such a huge motivator to just keep going, to just to keep doing that and okay now what else can we do? Willis: Yeah. Seems like that would be very rewarding. Martinez: Mm-hmm. It' ; s Extremely rewarding. Willis: So you were teaching, classes for free to seniors right before Covid- Martinez: Before Covid. Willis: And then once Covid hit. So what was that whole experience like for you once Covid hit and you weren' ; t able to teach people in person. I bet that was really difficult for you. Martinez: < ; laughs> ; . It was, it was. It provided its challenges. I think a lot of us shared the same challenges. Trying to communicate and, keep a community online was just really challenging. However, I feel like during the time of the pandemic folks were looking to have that sense of community that when you would' ; ve thought that we would have flailed, as a hālau, it actually just thrived, because of that need that, just that human need to want to come together and have a community. So when it was time, when we reached that time where we could come together outdoors, I mean, we, we did it immediately. As soon as we were told that we could conduct classes outdoors it was immediately and students came out and didn' ; t hesitate. I would say probably the most challenging thing was what is inherently cult- culturally inherent to us is the act of like, exchanging hānai or, you know kiss, kisses or hugs. And culturally, that' ; s what we do when we greet each other, when we say farewell to each other, is to always hānai each other. And that was probably one of the largest challenges because we couldn' ; t even, like, < ; Willis laughs> ; we couldn' ; t touch- Willis: Right. Martinez: We couldn' ; t- Willis: Six feet. Martinez: Yeah. That six feet. And it went against everything that we, that was so ingrained in us that that, that was pretty tough. Willis: That was such an awkward moment in time. Like, nobody really knew how to interact with each other. I want to give you a hug, but I guess let' ; s give you an air hug for now. Martinez: Yeah, yeah. Willis: But I can see how that could be very difficult, especially with your culture, just wanting to be right there with the person and be able to, you know, exchange those pleasantries. So-- Martinez: Yeah. Willis: Yeah. Going back to when you first started learning hula, do you specifically remember an instructor or somebody that taught you or that really had an influence on that? Martinez: I couldn' ; t single one out to be honest, because with each kumu or teacher that I have had has had such a huge influence on the kumu that I am today. I, I couldn' ; t credit just, just one. They all affected me in different ways, but equally impactful ways. I' ; ll note that, so I was, < ; unclear> ; is the formal graduation ceremony that a kuma hula goes through in order to, it' ; s like it' ; s a method of training, right? To become a kuma hula. And so the kuma that I was very honored and so blessed to be able to graduate under, he' ; s, his name is Kawaikapuokalani Hewett. And he is so prolific and knowledgeable in, in all aspects of Hawaiian culture that, and just to have that source, to be able to always go back to for the rest of, you know, my life like, that' ; s just, it' ; s just really, I feel so, so blessed that I have him, in my life. And, and the Hawaiian community is blessed to have him because he' ; s so gracious and generous with his, with his ' ; ike or his knowledge, where I think that as an indigenous culture, we often can gatekeep you know, rightfully so. But we can often gatekeep some knowledge because of how it has been, exploited right? In the past. Willis: Mm-hmm. Martinez: And the fact that, that Kumu Kawaikapuokalani is, is, has such a kind heart and willing to be able to, share knowledge is, is really, really priceless because it has benefited so many of his students. Willis: Right, right. Do you remember when you met him exactly? Was it when you were first learning hula or? Martinez: Oh my goodness. Well he is a, he, I can' ; t remember exactly because he' ; s very well known in Hawaii. He is a famous composer or songwriter and poet. And so my father being a musician, I remember seeing Kawaikapuo CDs in my home, you know at the time. So I, it' ; s actually kind of interesting cause I feel like it was almost a, uh, predetermined that this relationship was going to circle around. Right. And ironically, he, and I can' ; t obviously say the name, but he resides on the same street in Hawaii that my sister resided in at the time. So when I would visit my sister < ; laughs> ; in Hawaii, it was the same street that my now kumu still lives on. So, it, it' ; s just-- Willis: Oh wow. How convenient is that? Martinez: It' ; s just, yeah, < ; laughs> ; . I' ; m going to say coincident, there' ; s no such thing as coincidences. Willis: Right. No, I agree. < ; Martinez laughs> ; . Aside from hula, are there any other specific Hawaiian traditions that you really feel passionate about? Martinez: Oh my goodness. Um, I feel that hula does encompass all of those traditions. Right? And I think that' ; s why it is so predominant in Hawaiian culture because it encompasses every aspect of Hawaiian culture. Protocols are implemented in hula that are implemented in-- that really dictate, the belief systems of Hawaiian people. So, I wouldn' ; t, I, yeah. I don' ; t think, yeah. < ; laughs> ; Willis: No, that' ; s perfect. Do you think there' ; s any like, big misconceptions about Hawaiians or Hawaiian culture in general? I mean, like stereotypes < ; Martinez laughs> ; from your experiences? Martinez: Yeah. < ; more laughter> ; . Yeah. There' ; s, I wouldn' ; t even know where to begin < ; laughs> ; . Willis: < ; laughs> ; I know it' ; s kind of a loaded question. Martinez: Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. But if I had to Like if I had to choose, you know, one or two of the most common stereotypes or misconceptions, gosh, I would, I-- Hmm, Hmm. Well, I' ; ll address one thing only because it' ; s fresh in my mind. And I was posed this question recently was I often get asked, " ; Oh, how much Hawaiian are you? And it' ; s interesting when folks ask this question because it' ; s almost like they' ; re putting a measure to it. Yeah? And I think what folks don' ; t understand is that as a Hawaiian people, we identify our Hawaiian-ness is by our lineage and our ancestors. Right? It' ; s not about a blood quantum. And I, I think I' ; ll just leave it at that < ; laughs> ; . Willis: That' ; s perfect. I appreciate that. Didn' ; t mean to put you on the spot. Martinez: No, no, it' ; s a great question. It was just hard to decide what it would be the, what is most often misunderstood. Because there' ; s plenty. There' ; s plenty. Willis: Yeah. Understood. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: So this next question' ; s gonna kind of lead into your organization that I want to talk to you about- Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: But around when and how did you begin your journey in assisting with spreading and preserving traditions of Hawaii? Martinez: I' ; m sorry, can you ask--? Willis: Yeah, of course. So I was just wondering around when was it, when you were maybe a teenager, young adult, when you decided, okay, I' ; m gonna really start to assist with spreading and preserving the traditions of Hawaiian culture? Martinez: Hmm. Oh gosh. I think I can' ; t recall when I know I was younger, but I can' ; t recall the exact time. But as an adult, I always knew. Like as a young adult, I knew that that would be my mission, for a couple reasons. One, it was the accessibility of, learning Hawaiian culture being a Hawaiian who lives in diaspora, right? Who doesn' ; t, who isn' ; t living in their ancestral land. So, just, you know, personally from my own personal experience not having that access and really having to actively search for it, I knew that I wanted to be able to provide that for other native Hawaiians that are not, no longer residing in Hawaii. Another reason is that just like anything else, any sort of extracurricular activity, sometimes classes are not affordable to, Native Hawaiian population. Right? They can be, that can be a barrier, a financial barrier. And that' ; s always kind of been, to me an interesting, dilemma as a kumu hula, and as someone who has a hālau, I always wanna make sure our classes are accessible to everyone who wants to learn. However, at the end of the day, I still have a lease to pay. Right? An electric bill. And, and so how can I do that in such a way that it can benefit students. How can I teach, culture in a way that can benefit students, that can still benefit financially for my family, right? Because I dedicate a lot of my time to this. And then the third component is, how can it benefit the community as a whole? And I think that' ; s where UMEKE, our organization comes in, right? Establishing that nonprofit organization where we can be able to provide access to culture for everyone. Because I believe anyone and everyone who would like to learn Native Hawaiian or not, should be able to. Should be able to do that and do it in a, an a appropriate and an authentic way you know, because we don' ; t live-- Because of our locale, there are often folks who may be teaching a version of hula or, but perhaps they don' ; t have the education to be teaching Hawaiian culture in, you know in an authentic way. And that' ; s not to say that it' ; s, you know I' ; m sure the intention, the intentions are good and, and whatnot, but they' ; re-- In San Diego in particular, the native Hawaiian community is very passionate about being, taking on that kuleana or that responsibility of educating about Hawaiian culture in a way that it' ; s, that it' ; s coming from the native Hawaiian community. Yeah. I know that, personally, and this is just me personally, is that because Hawaiian culture has been commercialized for so long, I actively work towards deconstructing those, those, those stereotypes that surround Hawaiian culture that mostly came about once Hawaii became a, a very popular travel destination. Right? Um, so-- Willis: Gotcha. So speaking a little bit more on, UMEKE when did you first, establish your organization? Martinez: We filed in 2021, October of 2021. And we were stagnant for a little bit as we were kind of building our capacity, and I' ; ve just recently become more active and had some really great opportunities to be able to-- Willis: And you are the founder, you are the president. It' ; s really, you know, your idea. Right? You were the one that was like, let' ; s do this, let' ; s push forward. Martinez: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Willis: Was there anyone else that hopped on board with you that kind of helped you get it going? Or was it pretty much your project and your project only? Martinez: Oh my gosh. I had a huge support system, even from people that don' ; t even realize they were part of it. They were part of it. < ; laughs> ; And again, it goes back to, my, the elders within the Hawaiian community, specifically in San Diego. Those aunties, you know, I have some really amazing female role models in the Native Hawaiian community, in the kūpuna. And when I see the work that they have done and dedicated their lives to, I realize that this next generation, that I now have that responsibility to keep on that pathway that they' ; ve, that they' ; ve blazed already. Right? Mm-hmm. Willis: Right. So obviously it' ; s still a relatively new organization, but what are you most proud of, so far, and what are you kind of hoping to accomplish moving forward? Martinez: Oh, gosh. I' ; m at this moment most proud of a grant we were recently working on within collaboration with a local school district to be able to bring hula to -- and ukulele -- to an elementary school that has a significant Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander [NHPI] population. And providing that accessibility component, where, you know students might not otherwise be able to afford it financially or may not just even have the transportation for that, right? Because it happens during school. It, the accessibility just makes, made it so easy. So I would say that because I reflect on what I would' ; ve really loved at that age and been exposed to, and being able to take ownership of that [NHPI] identity in a place other than my home, among my friends, I think that would' ; ve been really impactful for me as a young person. And so-- Willis: Definitely. Yeah. And kids remember assemblies like that as well. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: I can still tell you some of the ones that I attended in elementary school and like the impact they had on me so that' ; s a really cool thing. And then, as far as like, looking forward to future, do you have any goals in mind or is it really just continue to do what you' ; re doing and hope more people hop on? Martinez: < ; laughs> ; Yeah, I mean, as far as goals it' ; s so interesting because when this group of us set out to start UMEKE, there were really folks that just wholeheartedly believed in me and my vision. And when we set out to do this, I think just like anything when you start something you' ; re like, " ; Ohh!," ; you know. < ; laughs> ; We weren' ; t sure how successful we would be, but it' ; s so interesting because opportunities have really been presenting themselves without us seeking them out, which to me, speaks to the mission of UMEKE that it was something that was really needed in our community because projects are really kind of floating our way, and it aligns with what we would love to do. So although we didn' ; t know exactly maybe specifically what a project was going to look like, folks are coming to us with their projects. And so it' ; s, that' ; s really exciting because it' ; s like, oh, there was a need! We, okay, great. You know- < ; laughs> ; Willis: < ; laughs> ; It' ; s all for a reason. Martinez: It, yes. Yeah. Willis: That' ; s really cool. Shifting gears a little bit, I understand you are a Cal State San Marco alum? Martinez: I am. Willis: So you earned your bachelor' ; s degree in Indigenous Anthropology, is that correct? Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: In 2019? Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: So what was that, what made you decide to ultimately go for a bachelor' ; s degree? What kind of pushed you in that direction? Martinez: That' ; s a funny story. So I have four children, and my eldest was in high school at the time and, you know neither of my parents went to college. And between my siblings and I, we didn' ; t have a four-year degree. Right. So I was very, very, very < ; laughs> ; , persistent that my children go to a four-year college, and I realized that I couldn' ; t preach < ; laughs> ; higher education to them. Unless I went ahead and did it myself and so I did < ; laughter> ; . Yeah. Willis: That' ; s very admirable. It' ; s, it' ; s not easy, especially when you' ; re a parent. I can attest to that. It is not easy to continue on with school. I mean, you just have so many other things going on. Just to be able to put aside some time for that is a challenge within itself. Was it a difficult decision? I mean, I guess that' ; s the obvious to, to go back to school or, but once you got in, was it, was it easy for you? Did it come naturally, or what was that kind of whole process like when you first started attending classes? Martinez: It was interesting going back as an, as a non-traditional student and, you know, at my age with children, I knew I was going to go into it slow and steady. I wasn' ; t in a rush. And so I had just started with maybe two classes per semester. And, and I actually thought of it as a blessing because I got to study exactly what I wanted to. I knew that cultural anthropology was going to be something that would maintain my interest and my goals. And so, when I had learned that Cal State [San Marcos] specifically had an indigenous anthropology degree, it, it, it just all made sense. So it wasn' ; t, it was challenging maybe logistically, having, juggling, family, but learning and the like-minded folks that I got to meet, especially this younger generation! They' ; re amazing, you know, < ; laughter> ; and getting invigorated by this young energy. For me it was a, it was a great experience, and you know, when you tell somebody that you' ; re going to school for indigenous anthropology, you always get that question, what are you gonna do with that? Well, guess what? I use it every single day! < ; laughs> ; , Willis: Right. Not everybody can say that, so that' ; s impressive. Yeah. Uh, so did you come away with a new perspective after graduating? Martinez: Um, hmm. I think the perspective that I got was, probably one of the most important perspectives is that outside perspective, right? Because we' ; re sometimes always just living in our bubble and really only see what' ; s happening in our immediate surroundings. And so, I would say it changed my perspective in that, in the sense that, one, learning about other cultures, and when we learn about other cultures, it really helps us to understand more of our own, and being with such a diverse, because Cal State [San Marcos] does have a really diverse student body, right? So different ages and ethnicities. And so I think that, those, all of those things combined are, are what changed my perspective, not the actual piece of paper < ; laughs> ; . Willis: Yeah, no. I totally understand. Um, as far as the other cultures that you learned about, was there one in particular other than Hawaiian that really caught your attention? Martinez: Oh my goodness. I wouldn' ; t say specifically one. I think that just studying other indigenous cultures, particularly, you know, the ones within our area, like the Kumeyaay and the Luiseño, I just loved learning about how more similar Hawaiian culture is, with the [San Diego-are] native communities than not, and so I would say it that was just, and, and that was with everything. That' ; s with belief systems, that' ; s with, our, our medical systems, how we view health. Willis: Mm-hmm. Martinez: How we view, our, structures of our families, our structure of our communities. So, now I' ; m not sure that I < ; laughs> ; answered your question. Willis: Yeah, that' ; s perfect. Um, so I did want to touch base on an event that, um, you obviously had a huge hand in, earlier this year in February, you were able to establish the first ever southern California, Asian, and Pacific Islander Festival. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: Which, um, took place actually here in Oceanside. Uh, first off, what was kind of the vision of this, event and how long did it take for this idea to become a reality? Martinez: Um, I can say I can' ; t take credit for coming up with the idea. As, but as now, like currently being a co-creator of, of the event for me personally, I come from a multiculturally- multicultural background, so, um, as a lot of us are right? So yes, I' ; m Native Hawaiian. Um, in addition to that, I' ; m also Japanese and Chinese and Mexican. And, coming from such a, a multi-ethnic background growing up in North [San Diego] County, I think that, my drive behind this event is one, bringing that diversity to North County that it hasn' ; t seen a lot of in the past that, and maybe on this, on this level, right? Willis: Mm-hmm. Martinez: The API [Asian & ; Pacific Islander] community being highlighted to this extent in this area, we' ; re quite underrepresented. And I knew that going into this festival that our number one focus was always going to be on the educational aspect of it, and getting, you know, circling back to that, like when we understand other cultures, that we really begin to understand ourselves more, and we wanted to focus on this educational part because sometimes festivals can get quite, um, what' ; s the word? Insular. Yeah. And we want to make it, we want folks to know that this festival' ; s for everyone. You know, no matter what the background, no matter what the age, no matter what the locale that is for everybody to be able to come together and learn about API culture. Willis: Right. Gotcha. Martinez: So-- Willis: Uh, so can you share your experience of how the event actually unfolded? Was it what you were hoping for? Was it a nice turnout? Martinez: Well, it' ; s actually in three weeks. Willis: Oh, my mistake. < ; laughs> ; Martinez: < ; laughs> ; . So we' ; re in the thick of it. Willis: Gotcha. Okay. I must have, misread that. My apologies. < ; laughs> ; My understanding is that it already happened earlier this year. Martinez: No worries. Willis: Okay. So it' ; s happening in three weeks from now! Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: Okay. That' ; s awesome. So I guess, um, what are you expecting? Are you expecting it to be a pretty big turnout? Martinez: Well, that' ; s what we' ; re hoping for! < ; laughs> ; Willis: Of course. Martinez: Um, but as far as how it' ; s unfolded, you know, it did just like anything, it' ; s evolved. The, the, the vision has evolved a little bit. In, in, the, the, yeah, the vision and the mission have all evolved quite a bit, but as far as like what people can expect, because we wanted it to be, you know, educational, there you will find the typical things that you would find in a festival, yeah, is performances and vendors and food and things like that. But I think probably my most favorite part that has sort of evolved since the initial planning is this contemporary aspect of what API culture looks like. So, I mean, you can use K-Pop [Korean pop music] as a great example, right? Willis: Mm-hmm. Martinez: Like, and the phenomenon around K-pop and, where that came from. So initially we were focusing mostly on traditional practices and performances, but then we realized how many amazing API artists are out there and are deserving of recognition, but may not necessarily be practicing what would be considered a traditional art. So that' ; s, I think I' ; m really excited to see what some of these performers are bringing, these API artists and performers are bringing to the festival. I think that' ; s gonna be a really fun aspect of it. That was, for me, it was, it was an unexpected but pleasant surprise addition to the festival. Willis: Right. Absolutely. Uh, do you know about how many different ethnicities, cultures are gonna be represented at this event? Martinez: We have about, um, over 20. Willis: Wow. Martinez: Yeah. We have about over 20. Willis: That' ; s impressive. And a lot of them have just, have they been coming to you about it, or do you reach out to them? How does that usually work? Martinez: You know I, I' ; m really fortunate to have been embedded in the Pacific Islander community in San Diego since I, you know, the dance community is very close-knit. So I' ; m really fortunate to be able to reach out to other directors of performance groups that I am, I have relationships with. And they were the first ones to jump on and say, yes, we would love to support you. Um, so that was really how the momentum, started. Right? Because, you know, you start with one performance group and then another performance group. Oh! And then so-and-so' ; s performing, and then another one. And so I wasn' ; t as, connected within, the AA [African American] community though, and that has been an amazing experience is meeting other directors in their respective arts, like, < ; unclear> ; and, Lion Dance, and, because it' ; s just, we are all, we' ; re all the same at the end of the day. And um, so I, this initial year we did a huge, we did a lot of outreach. We have a great leadership team, and so between us and our outreach and our circles, we, we got a lot of support from folks. And it didn' ; t take much of an ask. Folks really wanted to be a part of this. They really wanted this. Willis: I can imagine. That' ; s fascinating. Martinez: Mm-hmm. Willis: So is there anything else that you uh, or how else do you continue to help, I guess Native Hawaiian culture and how can, for example, someone like myself get involved if they wanted to, kind of help and promote in that area? Martinez: Oh gosh. Um, oh, I' ; m sorry. Can you repeat that again? < ; laughs> ; Willis: So I guess what I' ; m really getting at, like how can someone else, if they really want to, you know, help and be a part of the cause, how would they go about doing that? Would they just reach out to you? Martinez: Oh, yeah. I mean the, I mean, what, that' ; s the irony in it, right? Is the majority of, of my supporters and our team are not Native Hawaiian. And, but it' ; s that allyship and because they you know, believe in, in, in the mission they' ; re absolutely willing to just jump in < ; laughs> ; and do whatever needs to be done. Um, so yeah, I mean anybody who ever want, who wants to be an ally, we are, we are here and happy and-- Willis: Come on down! Martinez: Yes. Ready to, to you know, just grow our community. Willis: Right. That' ; s so cool. So you kind of may have already answered this earlier but overall, as you reflect on everything you have done and accomplished to this point in your life, what are you most proud of and what has brought you the most joy? Has it been, maybe the hula aspect, um, teaching elders, children, or is there something else? Martinez: < ; laughs> ; Uh I think, it' ; s my own children, right? That will always be my most proud accomplishment. < ; laughs> ; Them as individuals, but also taking that perspective again of what I really could have needed or wanted in my upbringing, I feel like I provided that for my children and have instilled that into my children. And, knowing that I know that they' ; re gonna move forward and pass that on to their children, that' ; s, that will always be my proudest accomplishment, knowing that the generations far after I' ; m gone, will still be carrying on those, on those traditions. Willis: Yeah. That' ; s fantastic. And then, before we close our interview, is there anything else you would like to mention? Maybe something I didn' ; t ask you about that you really were hoping I would or? < ; laughs> ; Martinez: Oh gosh. Um, not that I can think of. Um, yeah, no nothing < ; laughs> ; Willis: Okay. Yeah, no that' ; s perfect. I think we definitely covered a lot of great stuff in this interview. So, really appreciate your time, Ilima. This was very informative. I think a lot of people can get a lot out of this whole interview and, really appreciate everything that you do for not only Hawaiian culture, but just the community in general. So thank you so much for your time. Martinez: Yeah, thank you. Willis: Alright. < ; Martinez laughs> ; Now I' ; m gonna go ahead and stop the recording. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en audio Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=MartinezIlimaKam_WillisRyan_04-07-23.xml MartinezIlimaKam_WillisRyan_04-07-23.xml
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Martinez, Ilima Kam. Interview April 7, 2023
Description
An account of the resource
Ilima Kam Martinez is a California State University San Marcos alum and the founder and President of UMEKE, an organization that promotes and preserves Hawaiian culture through hula dancing. In this interview, Ilima discusses her upbringing, the influence and relationship with her father, the importance of hula in Hawaiian cultures, the challenges she faced during the Covid-19 pandemic, her passion for elders, her mentors, going back to school to earn her degree, and her goals for UMEKE moving forward.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-027
Subject
The topic of the resource
California State University San Marcos
COVID-19 (Disease) and the arts
COVID-19 Pandemic, 2020-
Hawaii -- Culture
Hawaii -- Social life and customs
Hula (Dance)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-04-07
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
San Diego County (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Hawaiian
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Ilima Kam Martinez
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ilima Kam Martinez
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ryan Willis
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Community history
History Department internship
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/8b7ea359fd88c198e863d417f2251a4e.pdf
f94190d28b4466324946ce6be2435b49
PDF Text
Text
ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Ryan Willis:
Alright. Hello, this is Ryan Willis, and today I am interviewing Ilima Kam Martinez for the California State
University San Marcos Library Special Collections oral history project. Today is April 7, 2023, and the
time is 1:47 PM, and this interview is taking place at the University Library. Ilima, thank you so much for
interviewing with me today.
Ilima Kam Martinez:
Thank you for the invitation.
Willis:
Of course. So, let's go ahead and start off, um, from the beginning. Where were you born?
Martinez:
I was born here in San Diego, California, and raised here in both Oceanside and Carlsbad area.
Willis:
Perfect. And if you don't mind, can you tell me a little bit about your childhood? Uh, what was it like
growing up for you?
Martinez:
It's just-it's always an interesting question because I think I will answer that much differently than I
would've say, you know, uh, 25 years ago. Um, I… attended schools in Carlsbad, which is a
predominantly, you know, affluent Caucasian community. And coming from a really diverse background,
um, I, uh… let me think.
Willis:
Yeah, yeah. Take your time <Martinez laughs>. Not a problem.
Martinez:
Um, that really set me on the path that I find myself on today. I grew up with both parents in my life.
Two sisters, two older sisters. I'm the youngest. Um, my father was a retired civil engineer from Pearl
Harbor. So he had me, you know, by the time I was born, he was already at an age where he was retired.
So, I spent most of my time with him and being raised by him.
Willis:
Okay.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
That's really interesting. So, you said your father worked in-at Pearl Harbor?
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
1
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
So did you spend a lot of time in Hawaii growing up?
Martinez:
I did. So, I also have two half-sisters, that remained in Hawaii, from my father's first marriage. And,
when I say half-sisters, that's just, more literal than anything there. So I spent a lot of time, with my dad
and my sisters during the summer times growing up. So we often would visit-Willis:
Gotcha.
Martinez:
Hawaii.
Willis:
Did you ever have any interest in living there full-time? Or was it just more of like, oh, we'll just, you
know, visit here and there?
Martinez:
I always thought I would. I always thought that I would, eventually wind up there. Um, and I'm not
totally disregarding the possibility of that happening in the future. But yes, I do hope to find myself back
there one day.
Willis:
That's awesome. Yeah. I've always wanted to visit, but never have to this point. Um, were there any
influential family members or friends growing up that you really looked up to?
Martinez:
I would have to say my dad.
Willis:
Your dad.
Martinez:
Yeah. My dad was, he was so, he came from a, a generation right, where it was very, um, old school. You
know, he was working at Pearl Harbor at the time that it was bombed. And so he, he, although he
wasn't… he came from a generation, that was not especially affectionate or maybe verbalized, you
know, their, their love for their families and friends, but always showed it, you know, in by example.
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
2
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Always being present with me, always, you know, taking me to, you know, activities. And, so although
he might not have been, you know, that ty-not typical, but extremely affectionate or, you know,
verbalizing love that he was very instrumental in what I would consider to be a really happy childhood.
Willis:
Right. Yeah. That's awesome.
Martinez: Mm-hmm.
Willis:
So you said that he was actually at Pearl Harbor, though when the bombing took place?
Martinez:
He was mm-hmm.
Willis:
Wow. So what kind of stories did he have <Martinez laughs> regarding that? Or was that something that
he kind of just didn't like to talk about?
Martinez:
He, it's funny because I actually didn't even know he was a civil engineer at Pearl Harbor until his 80th
birthday party. Which took place in Hawaii. In his retirement he was actually a tennis instructor for the
Carlsbad Parks and Recreation for twenty years. That's what I always thought that he was. <laughs> To
me, that's what my dad did for a living.
Willis:
Right.
Martinez:
Oh, he's a tennis instructor! <laughs>. And when somebody, you know, was giving a speech at his
birthday party instead he was a civil engineer, you know, I'm already a young adult at that point, right?
At Pearl Harbor. I was, I had no idea. But that was typical of my dad. He was very, very humble. Um,
very modest. And so, it probably shouldn't have surprised me, but yeah. He didn't talk about much
about his experience, at Pearl Harbor at the time. Later on, you know, when he, so he had suffered a
major stroke in his eighties and, had moved in, with my family and I, and so I was his sole caregiver
during about a span, about, of about 10 years. And things would, he would start to talk about it but
never really elaborate. And, and I just always, you know, knew better than to, to pry that he would tell
me what I was meant to know.
Willis:
Right.
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
3
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
What he felt that I should know.
Willis:
Yeah. If you didn’t find out about it until you were, you know, a young adult. So that kind of-- <laughs>
Martinez:
Right.
Willis:
Explains it right there. Like yeah, you probably didn’t want to go there.
Martinez:
Exactly. And, and my dad was such a, he was such, a planner, right? Like, he was always very organized,
always had things in place. So he actually had written his own obituary several years before he even had
his stroke. And so it was actually through his obituary that he wrote that I learned a lot about him.
Willis:
I see.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
That's fascinating.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm. <laughs>
Willis:
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
So kind of along the lines of Hawaiian culture, when did you first take an interest in it? And was there a
point in your life where you kind of knew that that was something that you really wanted to focus on in
your life, or even with a career?
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
4
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
I, I think that so being the youngest of my siblings, I was the only one who was born here in San Diego.
All my siblings, all my sisters were born in Hawaii, raised in Hawaii. And so I feel like there was always
that yearning, you know, to be connected to Hawaii. And, um, it's really interesting because what I
didn't know at the time in my upbringing, you know, with my dad, what I didn't realize was very special
and unique to Hawaiian culture? I didn't even realize that's what it was until, until later on. Right? Just,
you know, maybe the foods we ate, the music my, my dad would play, he was a “slap <unclear>
guitarist.” He played ukulele. Um, but, it, to me, it was just my home. Right? So I think that it was pretty,
I think I wanna say sometime around maybe middle school that I had seen a hula performance. And I
remember it having such an impact on me at that moment that I was like, ahh! I don't know, there was
just this instant connection, although I had seen, you know, hula before, but it was just this one
particular moment. And so, that was when I had asked my dad, I would like to take hula classes, but
again, I mean, I'm in Carlsbad, right? And like where, where do you even find something like that? And,
and, um. But we, we did. And so he, enrolled me in classes at that time. And it's been a lifelong journey
of learning ever since. And just something that I've always felt, so it, it's been the constant in my life
right? Where I could go, always rely on hula to, to, um… it was just a, an anchor, you know? Right. No
matter what else is going on in my life, hula was always and still is that anchor for me, that makes me
feel safe.
Willis:
Right.
Martinez: Yeah.
Willis:
That's so cool. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, because I know that we, had talked in our pre-interview
specifically about hula and how important that is to Hawaiian culture. I understand that you actually
teach it as well.
Martinez:
I do <laughs>, I do. I have a hālau in, which is a traditional hula school in Vista. I just opened up the hālau
oh gosh. We just celebrated our fourth anniversary. Um, and it's been, it's been wonderful. Um, I think
for those that have not had experience in hālau it's, it can be challenging to understand, but hālau
equates for a lot of people family, right? Like in its essence, yes, it's a school of hula, but really it's in, its,
in its foundational form it's about family and it works and operates very much like a family. So
sometimes I wonder if it was really that I wanted to open the hālau for <laughs>, you know, teaching
hula or if it was for the purpose of being able to provide a home and a family for, for students.
Willis:
Right.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
5
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Willis:
That's awesome. You also mentioned that you have a passion for elders, and I know that you were
teaching them as well pre-Covid. Is that correct?
Martinez:
Pre-Covid I was volunteering at the Oceanside Senior Center. And I think it also again goes back to my
dad. I think a lot of things <laughs> will go back to my dad. He was, I mean he was fifty-eight years old
when I was born, and I think about that and it just kind of blows my mind. And as being his caregiver,
kūpuna or elders in Hawaiian culture are so, I think that's one of the many unique things about Hawaiian
culture is that we, help, hold our kūpuna in such high regard because we know that their experience, we
know that their, the lives that they have lived and their experience far surpasses ours. So we always
know to go to them and respect, you know, the knowledge that they, that they bear. So yeah-Willis:
And I think you also mentioned that part of the reason why you've really enjoyed teaching the hula to
seniors or elders is because it exercises their mind not just their body, right? Like you're just kind of
focusing on the whole package there. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit more on that?
Martinez:
Yeah. I mean, hula at its core is encompassing of, mental, physical, and spiritual, which you know, I've
learned that not everybody realizes or may know that. And so, when you're, when I'm teaching with
kūpuna, having those three facets; that physical, mental and emotional part I have seen has been such,
has had such a huge impact on them. You know, just the simple act of coming together, of sharing meals
together, which we do a lot, <laughs> The cognition that goes into learning choreography, I have seen
such an a really impressive trajectory, upward trajectory in how much now that my kūpuna class can
retain as opposed to when they may have first started dancing. Right. I think that, watching that, like
being a witness to this, this, how it can, how hula can positively impact them, is just, such a huge
motivator to just keep going, to just to keep doing that and okay now what else can we do?
Willis:
Yeah. Seems like that would be very rewarding.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm. It's Extremely rewarding.
Willis:
So you were teaching, classes for free to seniors right before CovidMartinez:
Before Covid.
Willis:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
6
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
And then once Covid hit. So what was that whole experience like for you once Covid hit and you weren't
able to teach people in person. I bet that was really difficult for you.
Martinez:
<laughs>. It was, it was. It provided its challenges. I think a lot of us shared the same challenges. Trying
to communicate and, keep a community online was just really challenging. However, I feel like during
the time of the pandemic folks were looking to have that sense of community that when you would've
thought that we would have flailed, as a hālau, it actually just thrived, because of that need that, just
that human need to want to come together and have a community. So when it was time, when we
reached that time where we could come together outdoors, I mean, we, we did it immediately. As soon
as we were told that we could conduct classes outdoors it was immediately and students came out and
didn't hesitate. I would say probably the most challenging thing was what is inherently cult- culturally
inherent to us is the act of like, exchanging hānai or, you know kiss, kisses or hugs. And culturally, that's
what we do when we greet each other, when we say farewell to each other, is to always hānai each
other. And that was probably one of the largest challenges because we couldn’t even, like, <Willis
laughs> we couldn't touchWillis:
Right.
Martinez:
We couldn'tWillis:
Six feet.
Martinez:
Yeah. That six feet. And it went against everything that we, that was so ingrained in us that that, that
was pretty tough.
Willis:
That was such an awkward moment in time. Like, nobody really knew how to interact with each other. I
want to give you a hug, but I guess let's give you an air hug for now.
Martinez:
Yeah, yeah.
Willis:
But I can see how that could be very difficult, especially with your culture, just wanting to be right there
with the person and be able to, you know, exchange those pleasantries. So-Martinez:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
7
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Yeah.
Willis:
Yeah. Going back to when you first started learning hula, do you specifically remember an instructor or
somebody that taught you or that really had an influence on that?
Martinez:
I couldn't single one out to be honest, because with each kumu or teacher that I have had has had such
a huge influence on the kumu that I am today. I, I couldn't credit just, just one. They all affected me in
different ways, but equally impactful ways. I'll note that, so I was, <unclear> is the formal graduation
ceremony that a kuma hula goes through in order to, it's like it's a method of training, right? To become
a kuma hula. And so the kuma that I was very honored and so blessed to be able to graduate under,
he's, his name is Kawaikapuokalani Hewett. And he is so prolific and knowledgeable in, in all aspects of
Hawaiian culture that, and just to have that source, to be able to always go back to for the rest of, you
know, my life like, that's just, it's just really, I feel so, so blessed that I have him, in my life. And, and the
Hawaiian community is blessed to have him because he's so gracious and generous with his, with his ‘ike
or his knowledge, where I think that as an indigenous culture, we often can gatekeep you know,
rightfully so. But we can often gatekeep some knowledge because of how it has been, exploited right?
In the past.
Willis: Mm-hmm.
Martinez: And the fact that, that kumu Kawaikapuokalani is, is, has such a kind heart and willing to be
able to, share knowledge is, is really, really priceless because it has benefited so many of his students.
Willis:
Right, right. Do you remember when you met him exactly? Was it when you were first learning hula or?
Martinez:
Oh my goodness. Well he is a, he, I can't remember exactly because he's very well known in Hawaii. He
is a famous composer or songwriter and poet. And so my father being a musician, I remember seeing
Kawaikapuo CDs in my home, you know at the time. So I, it's actually kind of interesting cause I feel like
it was almost a, uh, predetermined that this relationship was going to circle around. Right. And
ironically, he, and I can't obviously say the name, but he resides on the same street in Hawaii that my
sister resided in at the time. So when I would visit my sister <laughs> in Hawaii, it was the same street
that my now kumu still lives on. So, it, it's just-Willis:
Oh wow. How convenient is that?
Martinez:
It's just, yeah, <laughs>. I’m going to say coincident, there’s no such thing as coincidences.
Willis:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
8
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Right. No, I agree. <Martinez laughs>. Aside from hula, are there any other specific Hawaiian traditions
that you really feel passionate about?
Martinez:
Oh my goodness. Um, I feel that hula does encompass all of those traditions. Right? And I think that's
why it is so predominant in Hawaiian culture because it encompasses every aspect of Hawaiian culture.
Protocols are implemented in hula that are implemented in… that really dictate, the belief systems of
Hawaiian people. So, I wouldn't, I, yeah. I don't think, yeah. <laughs>
Willis:
No, that's perfect. Do you think there's any like, big misconceptions about Hawaiians or Hawaiian
culture in general? I mean, like stereotypes <Martinez laughs> from your experiences?
Martinez:
Yeah. <more laughter>. Yeah. There's, I wouldn't even know where to begin <laughs>.
Willis:
<laughs> I know it's kind of a loaded question.
Martinez:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. But if I had to Like if I had to choose, you know, one or two of the most common
stereotypes or misconceptions, gosh, I would, I… Hmm, Hmm.
Well, I'll address one thing only because it's fresh in my mind. And I was posed this question recently
was I often get asked, “Oh, how much Hawaiian are you? And it's interesting when folks ask this
question because it's almost like they're putting a measure to it. Yeah? And I think what folks don't
understand is that as a Hawaiian people, we identify our Hawaiian-ness is by our lineage and our
ancestors. Right? It's not about a blood quantum. And I, I think I'll just leave it at that <laughs>.
Willis:
That's perfect. I appreciate that. Didn't mean to put you on the spot.
Martinez:
No, no, it's a great question. It was just hard to decide what it would be the, what is most often
misunderstood. Because there's plenty. There’s plenty.
Willis:
Yeah. Understood.
Martinez: Mm-hmm.
Willis:
So this next question's gonna kind of lead into your organization that I want to talk to you about-
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
9
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
But around when and how did you begin your journey in assisting with spreading and preserving
traditions of Hawaii?
Martinez:
I'm sorry, can you ask--?
Willis:
Yeah, of course. So I was just wondering around when was it, when you were maybe a teenager, young
adult, when you decided, okay, I'm gonna really start to assist with spreading and preserving the
traditions of Hawaiian culture?
Martinez:
Hmm. Oh gosh. I think I can't recall when I know I was younger, but I can't recall the exact time. But as
an adult, I always knew. Like as a young adult, I knew that that would be my mission, for a couple
reasons. One, it was the accessibility of, learning Hawaiian culture being a Hawaiian who lives in
diaspora, right? Who doesn't, who isn't living in their ancestral land. So, just, you know, personally from
my own personal experience not having that access and really having to actively search for it, I knew
that I wanted to be able to provide that for other native Hawaiians that are not, no longer residing in
Hawaii. Another reason is that just like anything else, any sort of extracurricular activity, sometimes
classes are not affordable to, native Hawaiian population. Right? They can be, that can be a barrier, a
financial barrier. And that's always kind of been, to me an interesting, dilemma as a kumu hula, and as
someone who has a hālau, I always wanna make sure our classes are accessible to everyone who wants
to learn. However, at the end of the day, I still have a lease to pay. Right? An electric bill. And, and so
how can I do that in such a way that it can benefit students. How can I teach, culture in a way that can
benefit students, that can still benefit financially for my family, right? Because I dedicate a lot of my time
to this. And then the third component is, how can it benefit the community as a whole? And I think
that's where UMEKE, our organization comes in, right? Establishing that nonprofit organization where
we can be able to provide access to culture for everyone. Because I believe anyone and everyone who
would like to learn Native Hawaiian or not, should be able to. Should be able to do that and do it in a, an
a appropriate and an authentic way you know, because we don't live… Because of our locale, there are
often folks who may be teaching a version of hula or, but perhaps they don't have the education to be
teaching Hawaiian culture in, you know in an authentic way. And that's not to say that it's, you know I'm
sure the intention, the intentions are good and, and whatnot, but they're-- In San Diego in particular, the
native Hawaiian community is very passionate about being, taking on that kuleana or that responsibility
of educating about Hawaiian culture in a way that it's, that it's coming from the native Hawaiian
community. Yeah. I know that, personally, and this is just me personally, is that because Hawaiian
culture has been commercialized for so long, I actively work towards deconstructing those, those, those
stereotypes that surround Hawaiian culture that mostly came about once Hawaii became a, a very
popular travel destination. Right? Um, so--
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
10
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Willis:
Gotcha. So speaking a little bit more on, UMEKE when did you first, establish your organization?
Martinez:
We filed in 2021, October of 2021. And we were stagnant for a little bit as we were kind of building our
capacity, and I've just recently become more active and had some really great opportunities to be able
to-Willis:
And you are the founder, you are the president. It's really, you know, your idea. Right? You were the one
that was like, let's do this, let's push forward.
Martinez:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Willis:
Was there anyone else that hopped on board with you that kind of helped you get it going? Or was it
pretty much your project and your project only?
Martinez:
Oh my gosh. I had a huge support system, even from people that don't even realize they were part of it.
They were part of it. <laughs> And again, it goes back to, my, the elders within the Hawaiian
community, specifically in San Diego. Those aunties, you know, I have some really amazing female role
models in the Native Hawaiian community, in the kūpuna. And when I see the work that they have done
and dedicated their lives to, I realize that this next generation, that I now have that responsibility to
keep on that pathway that they've, that they've blazed already. Right? Mm-hmm.
Willis:
Right. So obviously it's still a relatively new organization, but what are you most proud of, so far, and
what are you kind of hoping to accomplish moving forward?
Martinez:
Oh, gosh. I'm at this moment most proud of a grant we were recently working on within collaboration
with a local school district to be able to bring hula to -- and ukulele -- to an elementary school that has a
significant Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander [NHPI] population. And providing that accessibility
component, where, you know students might not otherwise be able to afford it financially or may not
just even have the transportation for that, right? Because it happens during school. It, the accessibility
just makes, made it so easy. So I would say that because I reflect on what I would've really loved at that
age and been exposed to, and being able to take ownership of that [NHPI] identity in a place other than
my home, among my friends, I think that would've been really impactful for me as a young person. And
so-Willis:
Definitely. Yeah. And kids remember assemblies like that as well.
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
11
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
I can still tell you some of the ones that I attended in elementary school and like the impact they had on
me so that's a really cool thing. And then, as far as like, looking forward to future, do you have any goals
in mind or is it really just continue to do what you're doing and hope more people hop on?
Martinez:
<laughs> Yeah, I mean, as far as goals it's so interesting because when this group of us set out to start
UMEKE, there were really folks that just wholeheartedly believed in me and my vision. And when we set
out to do this, I think just like anything when you start something you're like, “Ohh!,” you know.
<laughs> We weren't sure how successful we would be, but it's so interesting because opportunities
have really been presenting themselves without us seeking them out, which to me, speaks to the
mission of UMEKE that it was something that was really needed in our community because projects are
really kind of floating our way, and it aligns with what we would love to do. So although we didn't know
exactly maybe specifically what a project was going to look like, folks are coming to us with their
projects. And so it's, that's really exciting because it's like, oh, there was a need! We, okay, great. You
know- <laughs>
Willis:
<laughs> It’s all for a reason.
Martinez:
It, yes. Yeah.
Willis:
That's really cool. Shifting gears a little bit, I understand you are a Cal State San Marco alum?
Martinez:
I am.
Willis:
So you earned your bachelor's degree in Indigenous Anthropology, is that correct?
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
in 2019?
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
12
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
So what was that, what made you decide to ultimately go for a bachelor's degree? What kind of pushed
you in that direction?
Martinez:
That's a funny story. So I have four children, and my eldest was in high school at the time and, you know
neither of my parents went to college. And between my siblings and I, we didn't have a four-year
degree. Right. So I was very, very, very <laughs>, persistent that my children go to a four-year college,
and I realized that I couldn't preach <laughs> higher education to them. Unless I went ahead and did it
myself and so I did <laughter>. Yeah.
Willis:
That's very admirable. It's, it's not easy, especially when you're a parent. I can attest to that. It is not
easy to continue on with school. I mean, you just have so many other things going on. Just to be able to
put aside some time for that is a challenge within itself. Was it a difficult decision? I mean, I guess that's
the obvious to, to go back to school or, but once you got in, was it, was it easy for you? Did it come
naturally, or what was that kind of whole process like when you first started attending classes?
Martinez:
It was interesting going back as an, as a non-traditional student and, you know, at my age with children,
I knew I was going to go into it slow and steady. I wasn't in a rush. And so I had just started with maybe
two classes per semester. And, and I actually thought of it as a blessing because I got to study exactly
what I wanted to. I knew that cultural anthropology was going to be something that would maintain my
interest and my goals. And so, when I had learned that Cal State [San Marcos] specifically had an
indigenous anthropology degree, it, it, it just all made sense. So it wasn't, it was challenging maybe
logistically, having, juggling, family, but learning and the like-minded folks that I got to meet, especially
this younger generation! They're amazing, you know, <laughter> and getting invigorated by this young
energy. For me it was a, it was a great experience, and you know, when you tell somebody that you're
going to school for indigenous anthropology, you always get that question, what are you gonna do with
that? Well, guess what? I use it every single day! <laughs>,
Willis:
Right. Not everybody can say that, so that's impressive. Yeah. Uh, so did you come away with a new
perspective after graduating?
Martinez:
Um, hmm. I think the perspective that I got was, probably one of the most important perspectives is
that outside perspective, right? Because we're sometimes always just living in our bubble and really only
see what's happening in our immediate surroundings. And so, I would say it changed my perspective in
that, in the sense that, one, learning about other cultures, and when we learn about other cultures, it
really helps us to understand more of our own, and being with such a diverse, because Cal State [San
Marcos] does have a really diverse student body, right? So different ages and ethnicities. And so I think
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
13
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
that, those, all of those things combined are, are what changed my perspective, not the actual piece of
paper <laughs>.
Willis:
Yeah, no. I totally understand. Um, as far as the other cultures that you learned about, was there one in
particular other than Hawaiian that really caught your attention?
Martinez:
Oh my goodness. I wouldn't say specifically one. I think that just studying other indigenous cultures,
particularly, you know, the ones within our area, like the Kumeyaay and the Luiseño, I just loved learning
about how more similar Hawaiian culture is, with the [San Diego-are] native communities than not, and
so I would say it that was just, and, and that was with everything. That's with belief systems, that's with,
our, our medical systems, how we view health.
Willis:
Mm-hmm.
Martinez:
How we view, our, structures of our families, our structure of our communities. So, now I'm not sure
that I <laughs> answered your question.
Willis:
Yeah, that's perfect. Um, so I did want to touch base on an event that, um, you obviously had a huge
hand in, earlier this year in February, you were able to establish the first ever southern California, Asian,
and Pacific Islander Festival.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
Which, um, took place actually here in Oceanside. Uh, first off, what was kind of the vision of this, event
and how long did it take for this idea to become a reality?
Martinez:
Um, I can say I can't take credit for coming up with the idea. As, but as now, like currently being a cocreator of, of the event for me personally, I come from a multiculturally- multicultural background, so,
um, as a lot of us are right? So yes, I'm Native Hawaiian. Um, in addition to that, I'm also Japanese and
Chinese and Mexican. And, coming from such a, a multi-ethnic background growing up in North [San
Diego] County, I think that, my drive behind this event is one, bringing that diversity to North County
that it hasn't seen a lot of in the past that, and maybe on this, on this level, right?
Willis:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
14
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Mm-hmm.
Martinez:
The API [Asian & Pacific Islander] community being highlighted to this extent in this area, we're quite
underrepresented. And I knew that going into this festival that our number one focus was always going
to be on the educational aspect of it, and getting, you know, circling back to that, like when we
understand other cultures, that we really begin to understand ourselves more, and we wanted to focus
on this educational part because sometimes festivals can get quite, um, what's the word? Insular. Yeah.
And we want to make it, we want folks to know that this festival's for everyone. You know, no matter
what the background, no matter what the age, no matter what the locale that is for everybody to be
able to come together and learn about API culture.
Willis:
Right. Gotcha.
Martinez:
So-Willis:
Uh, so can you share your experience of how the event actually unfolded? Was it what you were hoping
for? Was it a nice turnout?
Martinez:
Well, it's actually in three weeks.
Willis:
Oh, my mistake. <laughs>
Martinez:
<laughs>. So we're in the thick of it.
Willis:
Gotcha. Okay. I must have, misread that. My apologies. <laughs> My understanding is that it already
happened earlier this year.
Martinez:
No worries.
Willis:
Okay. So it's happening in three weeks from now!
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
15
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
Okay. That's awesome. So I guess, um, what are you expecting? Are you expecting it to be a pretty big
turnout?
Martinez:
Well, that's what we're hoping for! <laughs>
Willis:
Of course.
Martinez:
Um, but as far as how it's unfolded, you know, it did just like anything, it's evolved. The, the, the vision
has evolved a little bit. In, in, the, the, yeah, the vision and the mission have all evolved quite a bit, but
as far as like what people can expect, because we wanted it to be, you know, educational, there you will
find the typical things that you would find in a festival, yeah, is performances and vendors and food and
things like that. But I think probably my most favorite part that has sort of evolved since the initial
planning is this contemporary aspect of what API culture looks like. So, I mean, you can use K-Pop
[Korean pop music] as a great example, right?
Willis:
Mm-hmm.
Martinez:
Like, and the phenomenon around K-pop and, where that came from. So initially we were focusing
mostly on traditional practices and performances, but then we realized how many amazing API artists
are out there and are deserving of recognition, but may not necessarily be practicing what would be
considered a traditional art. So that's, I think I'm really excited to see what some of these performers are
bringing, these API artists and performers are bringing to the festival. I think that's gonna be a really fun
aspect of it. That was, for me, it was, it was an unexpected but pleasant surprise addition to the festival.
Willis:
Right. Absolutely. Uh, do you know about how many different ethnicities, cultures are gonna be
represented at this event?
Martinez:
We have about, um, over 20.
Willis:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
16
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Wow.
Martinez:
Yeah. We have about over 20.
Willis:
That's impressive. And a lot of them have just, have they been coming to you about it, or do you reach
out to them? How does that usually work?
Martinez:
You know I, I'm really fortunate to have been embedded in the Pacific Islander community in San Diego
since I, you know, the dance community is very close-knit. So I'm really fortunate to be able to reach out
to other directors of performance groups that I am, I have relationships with. And they were the first
ones to jump on and say, yes, we would love to support you. Um, so that was really how the
momentum, started. Right? Because, you know, you start with one performance group and then
another performance group. Oh! And then so-and-so's performing, and then another one. And so I
wasn't as, connected within, the AA [African American] community though, and that has been an
amazing experience is meeting other directors in their respective arts, like, <unclear> and, Lion Dance,
and, because it's just, we are all, we're all the same at the end of the day. And um, so I, this initial year
we did a huge, we did a lot of outreach. We have a great leadership team, and so between us and our
outreach and our circles, we, we got a lot of support from folks. And it didn't take much of an ask. Folks
really wanted to be a part of this. They really wanted this.
Willis:
I can imagine. That's fascinating.
Martinez:
Mm-hmm.
Willis:
So is there anything else that you uh, or how else do you continue to help, I guess Native Hawaiian
culture and how can, for example, someone like myself get involved if they wanted to, kind of help and
promote in that area?
Martinez:
Oh gosh. Um, oh, I'm sorry. Can you repeat that again? <laughs>
Willis:
So I guess what I'm really getting at, like how can someone else, if they really want to, you know, help
and be a part of the cause, how would they go about doing that? Would they just reach out to you?
Martinez:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
17
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Oh, yeah. I mean the, I mean, what, that's the irony in it, right? Is the majority of, of my supporters and
our team are not Native Hawaiian. And, but it's that allyship and because they you know, believe in, in,
in the mission they're absolutely willing to just jump in <laughs> and do whatever needs to be done.
Um, so yeah, I mean anybody who ever want, who wants to be an ally, we are, we are here and happy
and-Willis:
Come on down!
Martinez:
Yes. Ready to, to you know, just grow our community.
Willis:
Right. That's so cool. So you kind of may have already answered this earlier but overall, as you reflect on
everything you have done and accomplished to this point in your life, what are you most proud of and
what has brought you the most joy? Has it been, maybe the hula aspect, um, teaching elders, children,
or is there something else?
Martinez:
<laughs> Uh I think, it's my own children, right? That will always be my most proud accomplishment.
<laughs> Them as individuals, but also taking that perspective again of what I really could have needed
or wanted in my upbringing, I feel like I provided that for my children and have instilled that into my
children. And, knowing that I know that they're gonna move forward and pass that on to their children,
that's, that will always be my proudest accomplishment, knowing that the generations far after I'm
gone, will still be carrying on those, on those traditions.
Willis:
Yeah. That's fantastic. And then, before we close our interview, is there anything else you would like to
mention? Maybe something I didn't ask you about that you really were hoping I would or? <laughs>
Martinez:
Oh gosh. Um, not that I can think of. Um, yeah, no nothing <laughs>
Willis:
Okay. Yeah, no that's perfect. I think we definitely covered a lot of great stuff in this interview. So, really
appreciate your time, Ilima. This was very informative. I think a lot of people can get a lot out of this
whole interview and, really appreciate everything that you do for not only Hawaiian culture, but just the
community in general. So thank you so much for your time.
Martinez:
Yeah, thank you.
Willis:
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
18
2023-05-25
�ILIMA KAM MARTINEZ
Transcript, Interview
2023-04-07
Alright. <Martinez laughs> Now I'm gonna go ahead and stop the recording.
Transcribed by Ryan Willis
19
2023-05-25
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Transcripts
Description
An account of the resource
Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Martinez, Ilima Kam. Interview transcript, April 7, 2023
Description
An account of the resource
Ilima Kam Martinez is a California State University San Marcos alum and the founder and President of UMEKE, an organization that promotes and preserves Hawaiian culture through hula dancing. In this interview, Ilima discusses her upbringing, the influence and relationship with her father, the importance of hula in Hawaiian cultures, the challenges she faced during the Covid-19 pandemic, her passion for elders, her mentors, going back to school to earn her degree, and her goals for UMEKE moving forward.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-04-07
Subject
The topic of the resource
California State University San Marcos
COVID-19 (Disease) and the arts
COVID-19 Pandemic, 2020-
Hawaii -- Culture
Hawaii -- Social life and customs
Hula (Dance)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Hawaii
San Diego County (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Hawaiian
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Ilima Kam Martinez
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-27
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ilima Kam Martinez
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ryan Willis
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Community history
History Department internship
Women's experience
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Sierra Jenkins
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Marilyn McWilliams
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=McWilliamsMarilyn_JenkinsSierra_2021-04-05.xml
Interview Keyword
This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
Black Student Center
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
6.0 McWilliams, Marilyn. Interview April 5th, 2021. SC027-09 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Black Student Center Black experience Office of Inclusive Excellence Marilyn McWilliams Sierra Jenkins moving image McWilliamsMarilyn_JenkinsSierra_2021-04-05.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/93959df71a6dacc7ab6c495d62947c4d.mp4 Other video English 0 Interview Introduction 0 39 Childhood McWilliams discusses being raised in Oakland and her early school and family life. They were the first Black family in their neighborhood. Oakland ; middle class ; Oakland Hills 0 277 Path to employment at California State University San Marcos McWilliams talks about the importance of education in her family and the life circumstances and choices that led her to working at California State University San Marcos. education ; civil service ; Associate degree 0 567 Learning about Black history and the Black experience, from childhood to adulthood McWilliams' father played a key role in her experience of Blackness. This was heavily based on their interaction with predominantly white people and focused on equality. jazz ; equality ; imposter syndrome 0 1010 Personal impact of Black activism and social justice movements McWilliams speaks about how her role in the Office of Inclusive Excellence has made her aware of the current state of racism and inequity. Black Lives Matter 0 1240 Role in the creation of the Black Student Center McWilliams reflects on how her early support of Black students played into the creation of the Black Student Center. students 0 1600 Previous efforts to establish the Black Student Center Marilyn outlines the development of student identity centers on campus. She also reflects on the student leaders who accomplished the approved proposal for the Black Student Center. multicultural center ; Cross-cultural Center ; Latinx Center ; student leaders ; Associated Students, Incorporated ; pushback 0 1991 Leaders on the Black Student Center project, their contributions, and unsung heroes McWilliams speaks in more detail about the student leaders and others who worked tirelessly on the creation of the Black Student Center. Black Student Union ; Associated Students, Incorporated 0 2200 Needs of students, staff, and faculty involved in the Black Student Center's creation McWilliams discusses how students need to see more Black faculty, staff, and administrators on campus. cluster hire ; representation 0 2445 Pushback to the creation of the Black Student Center McWilliams reflects on pushback from students to the creation of the Black Student Center. pushback 0 2551 The Black Student Center Grand Opening and McWilliams' first visit to the BSC after opening McWilliams discusses her pride in experiencing the opening of the Black Student Center and her happiness for the students. Her hope is that the space can be expanded over time. pride ; students ; inadequate space ; Anthony Jett, Sr. ; University Student Union 0 2935 Early focus of the BSC's initiatives, programming, events McWilliams discusses how Black Student Center events focused on bringing Black history and education to campus. Kwanzaa ; Tulsa Race Massacre ; Black women ; Black Panthers 0 3148 The move from Student Success to Student Life McWilliams comments on the history of the organizational structure surrounding the student identity centers including the Black Student Center. student life ; student affairs ; Associated Students, Incorporated 0 3319 Achieving the purpose of the Black Student Center and future needs McWilliams states that growth is still needed for the Black Student Center to achieve its purpose including more space, support, and staffing. space ; staff 0 3460 Personal impact of the Black Student Center on McWilliams McWilliams talks about how to continue moving the Black Student Center program forward. events ; duplication 0 3577 Expectations for the future of the Black Student Center McWilliams discusses her expectations for the new director, John Rawlins III, especially once campus is re-opened post Covid closure. She reflects on the student experience during the Covid closure and virtual learning. John Rawlins III ; Covid ; virtual learning 0 3837 Developing an understanding of Blackness McWilliams talks about coming to her understanding of Blackness during an incident with her son in elementary school. Blackness ; motherhood ; son 0 4269 Final thoughts about the Black Student Center and the Black Faculty/Staff Association 
 ; McWilliams reflects on her time as president of the African-American Faculty Staff Association (now Black Faculty Staff Association) at California State University San Marcos. Black Faculty Staff Association ; African-American Faculty Staff Association ; outgoing 0 Oral history Marilyn McWilliams retired after 23 years at California State University San Marcos, where she most recently was the Administrative Assistant for the Office of Inclusive Excellence. McWilliams has been particularly active in advocacy and assistance to underrepresented communities on campus, and has been recognized by the Black Student Union at their awards night, named a Civility Champion, and received the Jonathan Pollard Award for social justice through student affairs. In her interview, McWilliams gives an in-depth account of her Black Experience starting with her childhood. McWilliams considers her childhood connection to education and how that led her to an administrative role at California State University San Marcos. McWilliams also discusses the CSUSM Black Student Center, her function in a supportive capacity, and the important role students' advocacy played in the creation of the Center. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:25.000 Today is Monday, April 5th, 2021, at 3:02 p.m. I am Sierra Jenkins at CSU (California State University) San Marcos, and today I'm interviewing Marilyn McWilliams for the Black Student Center Oral History Project, a collaboration of the CSUSM Black Student Center and CSUSM University Library Special Collections. Marilyn, thank you for being here with me today. 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:28.000 Thank you, Miss Sierra, for having me. 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:38.000 Of course. So we're going to just jump right into it, the questions. First one I have is where were you born? And where did you grow up? 00:00:38.000 --> 00:01:03.000 I was born in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, but I was raised in Oakland, California. We moved to California when I was six, six years old. So I was raised in Northern California. In the last 23 years I've been here in Southern Cal. 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.000 So interesting. 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:19.000 And when you think about that, Sierra, that is like full circle. O, Oklahoma to Oakland. And now I reside in Oceanside. Full circle. 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:30.000 Really? That really is full circle (laughs). It was meant to be. So tell me about your childhood growing up in Oakland. 00:01:30.000 --> 00:03:38.000 I had a pretty good childhood, growing up. I think we moved to California for better opportunities. My father had graduated from Langston University in Oklahoma and moved the family. I'm the baby of four. And actually, I'm sorry, I'm the baby of five. I found out I had another sister in Oklahoma. She's in Oklahoma, but my father moved the four of us and my mother here, to California for better opportunity. He got a job at a high school, Castlemont High in Oakland. And for me, that's when I started school. I started kindergarten and at the age of six in Oakland and I had a pretty good childhood, never wanted for anything. I considered myself basically growing up middle-class and that was very important for a Black family during that time and when we did move out here, nothing but the best for my father. We moved to the Hills, Oakland Hills and we, I can't say if we were the first Black family in our neighborhood, but if we wasn't the first, we were the second, ‘cause it wasn't many of us in my neighborhood growing up. But I think that my childhood prepared me for you know, what was ahead. My mother worked in civil service and my father in education and, like I said, I've never wanted for anything. And, I had a very good foundation. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:44.000 How did you come to your understanding of Blackness? 00:03:44.000 --> 00:04:17.000 Ooh. That's a, that's a pretty deep question. Me. Okay. How did that come to my understanding of Blackness? Let me think on that one. Let's come back to that one, Sierra. Cause that kind of took me off guard. Let me kinda’— 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:36.000 Okay. Not a problem. Let me see what it said. And your childhood, what were you taught about in your childhood and adolescence about Black history and the Black experience? 00:04:36.000 --> 00:09:17.000 I was taught that we could be anything that we wanted to be. I was taught that education was very, very important in order to get to where you want it to be. School was drilled in us. Like I said, my father was in education. I think it was drilled in us so much so that I wanted to steer away from it. It was just, my father made us like homework, whether or not you have homework in that particular, especially when you got to like junior high, we, back then we had elementary, junior high, then high school, junior high started at ninth grade. Am I aging myself? Cause that's not it now. Junior high started at ninth grade and you had like different classes, six classes. And I remember my father was like it doesn't matter if you have homework in that particular class that night you bringing all your books, all five of your books home and you're going to be studying. So, I know that for me, school wasn't—it was important, but for me it was, I’m kind of over it. So by the time I graduated high school, I knew I had to go to college, but I didn't want to. And so I started working, and I went to a junior college directly out of high school, and I completed one year and then I had a car accident and I took a year off. And once I did that, it was like, who wants to go back? But I did. I went back and I got my AA (Associate of Arts). That was it. In that time, I had fell in love, met this man and fell in love and going away, like out of state to college or anything like that—it just was not in the cards for me. I got my AA. We're talking about back in the early eighties. I think that was ‘81. And it's like, I'm set. I got my degree. I'm set. So I started out on the work field and like I said, my mother worked in civil service, and she had worked there and retired after 25 years. And I said, I could do that. So I got me a civil service job and I said, this is where I'm going to, I can do this. I'm good. And until, did 13 years there until the base closed, and then it's like, oh my God, now, what am I going to do? So the best thing for me to do was to try to get back in college, but I still wasn't feeling it, you know, and I ended up moving here, and remarried, and during that time I had divorced my husband, but I remarried, and I moved down here and after a year down here, I lucked up and got a job at Cal State San Marcos. They had just opened up the Early Learning Center, the first childcare center on campus. So I started working there and when I started working there, it was working as a—just coming in to get the books up and running for the Early Learning Center, and it was an eight-week position. I was hired knowing that it was only a temporary position, that eight-week present position. But after my eight weeks was over, the program director at that time felt the need that they needed someone longer. So then that's where my career at Cal State San Marcos began, and I’m very fortunate to say, 23 years later, I'm still here. What turned out to be an eight-week position into that being 23 years for me and I'm very thankful for that. But I think I detoured from the question you asked me, what was I answering, Sierra? I'm sorry. 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:26.000 No problem. That was really interesting. I was asking about, how, what was your taught experience about Black history, experience? 00:09:26.000 --> 00:12:13.000 Yes, my, like I said, my dad's in education, so we were taught and he actually was a musician. He played the saxophone, so, jazz, listening to jazz was like, you know pretty good, but as far as we were taught that we were just as good as everyone. And by my father being in education he was surrounded by whites. So you know, things, parties and things that he would have at the house, it will be a mixture. So I've always seen a mixture, and everyone should be treated equal. And we were just as good as the next person. So I was taught that you don't— such a cliche, you know—you don't see color, but you know that it's there. You know that others look at you differently. The high school that I went to was predominantly white, predominantly, because of the neighborhood that I lived in and where we went, and it's just like, if now I go, I look back at that high school and it's predominantly Black is like, what a difference generations make, where people start, more Black people started moving towards the Hills moving in the Hills, so like I said, we were one of the first, if not the first in our neighborhood, but most, more started moving and in today's this like—and I think that when I be talking, I don't know where I be going, but I probably steered away from that question again, so I think I need to just leave it there. My parents really did instill the importance in us that we can do and be anything that our hearts desire. But for me back then, all I wanted to do was be a housewife and a mother. I wanted babies. I wanted to be, but I also knew that you needed, you need it more in order to sustain. So. 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:34.000 That's really interesting. And you mentioned how, right after you finished high school, you went to junior college and then you were in the workforce for a bit. During that time, did you learn anything new or different about the Black experience or about being Black yourself? 00:12:34.000 --> 00:15:44.000 Not me personally, no, because me growing up as a child, I never had to struggle or want for anything. So, I never felt that for me personally, I never felt that. And I think my type of, I don't know, probably because of how I raised, because my mother was such an outgoing person, I never felt unwanted. I never felt as if when I walked into the room I wasn't wanted there. But I've always been a somewhat shy type of person, so I never wanted to be the person to stand out, but yet still, I always ended up being the person that stands, that stood out because I think, because I was loud and always wanted to make someone smile, you know, just, I wanted to bring joy. And then I would find myself being like the center of attention that I never ever, ever, ever wanted, but it always ended up like that. And then I'll walk away and say, how did I just do that? But I've never, ever felt unwanted or, not or looked upon as someone less than. I never felt that in my life, even working at Cal State San Marcos, at a university. I did feel—that's sometimes inadequate in parts, partly because I only had an AA and here I am working at an institution, a four-year institution where degrees were so important. Bachelors, masters, doctorates, you know, so important, but even working there I still never had that desire to go on. And probably because of my experience, I still was able to be me, if that makes sense. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:45.000 It does. 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:59.000 I felt, I think sometimes I did feel less than because I only had an AA, but that AA didn't really define me if that makes sense? 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:05.000 Yes. So kind of felt like imposter syndrome type thing? 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.000 Probably. Yeah. Why am I here? 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.000 Yeah. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:21.000 I deserve to be here, too, but do I? But I'm still here. So I guess, yes, yes. 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:46.000 Yeah. That's actually a great segue into our next question. How has Black social justice and activism such as the Civil Rights Movement, feminism, the natural hair movement and Black Lives Matter affected you? 00:16:46.000 --> 00:19:10.000 It. How has it affected me? It affected me in a way that it's sad to see the world in the state that it is in right now. Especially with everything that's going on now. Like I said, all of that was not part of my upbringing or who I am as a person. And I guess I must've always just surrounded myself around individuals that didn't feel the way, like some, like a lot of people out there are feeling social justice, Black Lives Matter. Especially working in the department that I work in. We get, I work in the Office of Inclusive Excellence, and we get a lot, you know, inequity things that are happening on campus with our people. But how did it affect me? Oh. Affects me to the point of will it ever end? It’s, I don't understand it. I don't understand. And I know, you know, why can't people see us all as humans? We're all human, everyone has their own experiences, their own—okay, Sierra, I need to articulate that a little better. 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.000 You’re doing, you’re doing good. 00:19:13.000 --> 00:20:22.000 And it's like, how did it affect me? I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I don't know how it affected me. Maybe, I don't know. It's sad. It's sad to see. It hurts me to see how a lot of people, I know people that don't know how a lot of people are treated. It’s sad for me to see how – not sad. It's, it's like, I don't understand how, well I guess I do understand because it's how people are raised. But I don't understand how people can look at an individual and just think that they're not worthy to be here to occupy this space, to offer input or, I don't know. I think I'm just rambling. So, let's go to the next one. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.000 Okay. 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.000 That one stumped me. 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:41.000 (Laughs) It is another deep one. This one goes more towards your experience at San Marcos specifically. What role did you play in the creation of the BSC? 00:20:41.000 --> 00:26:10.000 Not much of a role. I understood the students. I understood their need and desire to have space of their own. And since I, I think since I started working, working there, I think the way that I found my calling, because remember I stated earlier how I pretty much felt somewhat inadequate because I only had an AA. So working there when I first started, I started off in the Early Learning Center with the little babies and as the admin person working in the Early Learning Center, which was very, so fulfilling. Then you get, I got to meet a lot of the students because they will bring their children there and I worked there for about five years, and when a position opened up at the Associated Students (Incorporated, student government) office, working with the board of directors, an admin position opened up there, I applied for it, and I got it. So then I moved into that position. So now I'm around students, all kinds of students, and they're the ones that's pretty much running the association. And they're technically like our bosses, but, you know, the staff is there to make sure that they're doing everything according to code, Title IX policy and all of that, but they were technically our bosses. I found my calling during that particular time because I felt more of a mother figure to the students and the Black students really kind of cultivated towards me. Like I said, I don't know, sometimes I’m like the loud one in the room. I'm making them feel kind of like a home. I'm like that mother figure, like: what are you doing in here? Shouldn't you be in class or, you know offer things that way where a lot of my other colleagues would offer advice on this is the class you should take, or you know upper division, lower division, all of that type, this is the path that you need to go, or in order to graduate, these are the things, and my role was totally different, you know. Take care of you and make sure you're eating. Did you have lunch today? Or you know just things like that. So that kind of like mother away from home type of situation. So I found myself that way. So I think the students felt, I think they felt that way also because they always came to me, and I've always had an open-door policy no matter where I was, where students can come. So I got their, I understood their need. Ever since I've been there, the Black student, faculty and staff was at 3%, you know, always at 3% at our university and that's not a high number. So it's like, how do we get more and more students? But in order to get students, you want to have faculty that students want to go into a classroom where they have faculty that looks like them. And so, I got that a lot. So the need for them to have their space was very important. And as far as like playing a role, I was that listening ear. So I would listen and I can, I would be able to advise some: well, you know, have you tried, have you talked to such and such, have you did this, have you did that? And then when you get those students that are outspoken and it's like, no, we need action! We need, we need this, we need that, I'm there with my colleagues to help them navigate that. So my role wasn't big, but it was there. It was big enough, if that makes sense. 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:38.000 Definitely. It sounds like you're the moral support, probably the push sometimes people needed to hear. Since you definitely were an ear to students prior to the creation of the BSC (Black Student) Center had you heard a previous like previous push for the center before the one that, that, allowed it to be created this time? 00:26:38.000 --> 00:32:51.000 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Students wanted that. And then, you know, there's no space, so there's no space on campus. Which came first? We got the Multicultural Center, which ended up being the, the multicultural center and that ended up being the Cross-Cultural Center and that on our campus kind of like predominantly, it (was) designed to be for all, but it ended up being more of our Asian, Pacific Islander Desi, it ended up being kind of like the center where a lot of our Asian students kind of like gravitated to. And then I think we got the, the Latin
/x Center after that, which ended up being a very small area. But then we got some very outspoken, I mean, even before the (Black Student) Center did become, even before the center five years ago, we got some very outspoken students that would not take no for an answer and demanded the president, where it was so much so, they had help from others, not me as far as like writing the proposal and all of that, more my other colleagues that had their master’s (laughs), their degrees and stuff, to help them put all of that together to bring to the president. I think my role was small, but I think it was, it was there. And I was very proud of them. Very proud of them for how they went about it. At one point as—I do want to mention that I did end up after 14 years with ASI, Associated Students (Incorporated), I did get the position when we first opened our diversity office on campus. Diversity, Educational Equity, and Inclusion was the office that opened up in July 20, no July, where are we? 2021? July 2011, when that office first opened up and then I applied for an admin position there and I got that in November 2011. So when that office opened up, it opened up a more direct avenue for the students to advocate for the space, and our office helped. But my part was just being there to be supportive in any way that I could. And right now, if I was to list those to you, I couldn't even tell you what they were but I do know that with—that's where I was going—see how I'm just going all over the place? I do know that within ASI, it was the very first time that ASI had an all-color female executive board. So we had a Black female for president, a Black female for executive—I forgot what the titles were, a Black female for the diversity rep, and like a Latina female for the vice president of something. So all the execs were females of color. And I do want to say that that year was really, they did so much, but they got so much pushback. And it was really sad to see that. They was, you know, all strong women. I'm hoping that some of them are part of this interview. Naturally they're great. They've graduated, but they were in our office all the time because of how, because of how they were being treated. So I know that when, if they are in the interview, their experience at Cal State San Marcos way different, because they got so much pushback and it was like, they couldn't do it, but they did some amazing work. Amazing. And it was during that particular board when the president decided that yes, we do need a (Black Student) Center. So I don't even know if I answered that question and let me apologize to you right now because I noticed sometimes I hear one and then I start saying something that I may be, so I don't know. I know that you're recording. So if you have the capacity to like, okay, she wasn't making no sense, you know, cut! You know, I have no problem with that because I'm probably just going off on a tangent, like I am now. So I’m gonna’ be quiet. 00:32:51.000 --> 00:33:08.000 No, that's totally fine. You answered the question perfectly and then actually it actually goes into the next one. Cause it sounds like those women were kind of like unsung heroes that maybe not everyone knows about when it comes to the BSC. 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.000 Absolutely. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:10.000 Yeah. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:45.000 Absolutely. Like I said, I truly hope that they are part of the interview process. I believe the director, well, I did reach out to one of the students that I'm hoping that the director of the BSC has contacted her, but I do hope that these students are part of this interview process because I know that they will be able to share a lot of information, especially from the student perspective. 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:58.000 Yeah. Who are the different leaders that like spearheaded the BSC project? 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.000 The different leaders? 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:11.000 Yeah. Like who were the main people you would say advocated or were central to creating the Black Student Center? 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:57.000 Oh the students definitely, the BSU, the Black Student Union president at the time. And not just the president, but the Black Student Union student organization, a lot of the students there, as well as the execs in the ASI (Associated Students Incorporated) board of directors. So the—I'm sorry, I just, I just saw your cat and my mind—No, no, no, it's not you it's like, Ooh, she has a cat. I'm sorry, Sierra (laughs). 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:05.000 You’re totally fine! I was surprised they've been good this long, this far in (laughs). 00:35:05.000 --> 00:36:20.000 But the students definitely, I would say definitely they are the main ones too, that make, and they wasn't even here wh- oh yeah. When we opened the ASI (Associated Students Incorporated) board, they were graduating, but some of the students from the Black Student Union student organization wasn't even here for the opening (of the Black Student Center). They had, you know, they had since left. They wasn't even here for the opening to the, to see that. But the ASI, the ASI executive board were. So I'm thankful for that because I'm thinking about the opening now. And the three of them were there at that, but I will say the students were the main force, but they had help. They had help from some faculty. We have our Sharon, Dr. Sharon Elise at the time. Dilcie Perez, Ariel Stevenson, a lot of the faculty and staff, they were there to help support them, but it was mainly a student effort. 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:37.000 Okay. That also leads into the next question. What did staff faculty, and especially students, since they were central to this, that were involved in the creation of the BSC, what did they feel they needed? 00:36:37.000 --> 00:37:57.000 Ooh. They needed. I know that a few of my colleagues were able to help with the proposal. Would that be a proposal? The writing, you know, the letter to the president, I know that a lot of the, a lot of my colleagues were able to assist with that. The letter, to get it to the president's office and, and make sure that it was in a… format. If that's the word I'm looking or a different word, but format, that would be looked at and not just pushed to the side, you know it, that made in such a way that, okay, we can't like, not just ignore this. So. That wasn't even your question. What was your question again? 00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:06.000 You're answering it. What did the students feel they needed? And you were saying how the letters they were getting helped with that sort of thing. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:39:38.000 Yeah. And they needed to, they needed to know and needed to feel that what they were asking for was something that was needed and not just—something that was really needed and not just: we're asking just to be asking. And they needed that for them, you know? And there's more, and that's why now we're into cluster hire, because even the Black Student Center has been here for five years, going on five years, and we still are not where we should be at with faculty hiring, administrative hiring for the African Americans, you know, for the Blacks. We, there's definitely more that needs to be done, but that was a step in the right direction. But there's still more that needs to be done. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:40:01.000 Yeah. What did the university administration communicate was their vision? You mentioned it was more students. So what maybe what was their, what did they communicate? Was there a vision for the BSC? 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:06.000 Hm. I'm not sure how to answer that one. 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:26.000 Okay. No problem. We can go on to the next one. Was there external or institutional pushback to the creation of the BSC, or did you experience or witness any pushback upon the creation of the Center within the Center or on social media? 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:43.000 Hmm, not sure how to answer that either. I'm not really a social media person, I'm on Facebook, but I don't do the Instagram or, you know, so hmm. Was there pushback? 00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.000 Yeah. 00:40:44.000 --> 00:41:15.000 I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure there was pushback in the beginning, but I think it got to the point where, because I'm pretty sure that like this last group, it wasn't the first one to bring this up to the president and to administration. And now I'm not sure how to answer that question, Sierra. 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:25.000 No problem. Maybe. Did you, were you aware of any pushback from other groups of people to the creation of the Center or… 00:41:25.000 --> 00:42:25.000 Oh, that way. Yeah. Yeah we got pushback because then you have students start asking for white center. So, but I don't really know how to answer that question as far as pushback, what type of pushback? You know, there were students that, especially when they were talking about opening the Black Student Center, they, yeah. There were students like, we need this, we need that. Why are we having that? I mean you, you're going to have that, but how extensive that was, I can't answer that. 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:31.000 No problem. Were you at the BSC grand opening? 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:37.000 Absolutely! It was wonderful. 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:44.000 How did you feel the first time you visited the Center once it opened? 00:42:44.000 --> 00:45:34.000 I felt pride. I felt overjoyed. I felt like now the students, and I'm looking at it from a student point of view, now the students can really feel like they have some place to call home here on campus. I felt, I felt prideful. I felt, yes! I felt like, okay, let's, let's do this. I felt as though the place was small and it was going to, it will be outgrown in two weeks, but it was the beginning, it was the beginning and the right direction. And I felt with what they had to, what they had to work with—‘cause I don't know how all of that stuff works. How do you find space on campus? And when you do that, and I know that when that was happening, they had to do away with another space that one of the student orgs had. It was, we had a like serenity type an office and then an area where you can go in and wash your feet before you go pray. And all of that, we had that area. And so they had to take that away. So I felt bad for those students because they were losing their space or they were sending them, giving them someplace else. But in order, it was just, I don't know. It was, you get rid of one in order to move one in and then it's still not really adequate, but it’s what you have. And at least you have something, you know, so I felt good about that. At least they have something and then maybe it can be expanded at a later time. But the mere fact that they did have a space, I felt very happy about that. 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:42.000 That's amazing. What was the grand opening like? I want to hear that, more about that. 00:45:42.000 --> 00:48:11.000 We had speakers, the new director was hired at the time. Anthony Jett, he's no longer there. But the students, the Associated Students (Incorporated), they pretty much ran it. Not ran it (the Black Student Center), the program itself. They were the president of ASI, her name was Tiffaney. Her name is Tiffaney Boyd. They pretty much had a role. I'm trying to think. We had speakers there. It was like an open house where we were able to, first we were out in the amphitheater with just like a very nice program. And we toured, we had sororities from other campuses come and it was a big, festive event. And it was wonderful. There was all the students were so happy. It was wonderful. And, you know, I had on my little—kente, what did I wear? I was all gold. I was cute. I was cute that day! It was very festive. The president was there to cut the ribbon, and the students were all up there. I'm pretty sure I have some pictures somewhere from that time, but it was, it was a magical moment. It was wonderful. And it was in the (University) Student Union. The Student Union had just, I can't even remember time, but it was fairly new and like the perfect place for it to be. So by that time we had the Cross-Cultural Center, the Latin
/x Center, the Gender Equity Center and the LGBTQ, no, no, no, the Pride Center. It's not LG. It's just called the Pride Center. So we had all those centers in our Student Union. And it was like, okay, this is what's it, this is happening! This is good. So I felt very prideful. 00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:15.000 That sounds like so much fun. I wish I was there. 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:35.000 Then I walk in. ‘Cause you know, like I told you, me being who I am and stuff like that, I walked in. It's like: yeah, mama bear here! Hey! How y’all! You know, I walk in all loud and they sit behind their desk and it was just, it was like open arms. So it felt good. 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:55.000 That is amazing. Now this is more about the early days of the BSC (Black Student Center). Tell us about the early focus of the BSC’s initiatives, like meaning programming, events, and their focus. 00:48:55.000 --> 00:51:55.000 We had some very good events. The focus was bringing Blackness and history and education to campus. I remember we had a event, a program with the Tulsa massacre. And I think we had an event with the founder of Kwanzaa. We had an event I think that year for the opening. I can't remember when we opened, but the, right after the opening, that first March was Women's History Month. So, the director made sure to recognize and honor all of the Black women at Cal State San Marcos. Faculty and staff, and to just, you know, recognize all of them. So it was a day set aside for that, which was wonderful. And I'm sure there's more events that I just can't think of off the top of my head right now, but it was like just going to those events, some were evening, some were during the noon hour. But going to those, it was like, Oh my God! You know, like even the Tulsa massacre, just like hearing about all of that. We had Black Panthers, it was an event where some of the members from Black Panthers was there. So, it was all about promoting history, Black history, and it was fabulous. It was just, it was good and it has continued but you know, now with this pandemic, it's been hard this last year, especially when we got our new director (John Rawlins III), I can see great things are coming. Great things will be coming, but just with this last year, things had to shift. Things had to change. But I think the pride in just educating Black history is his focus and goal and (he’s) doing a great job. 00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:28.000 That's so interesting. And I love that focused on Black history because oftentimes we aren't taught our correct history, you know, so it’s really important and awesome that they did that, especially so early on. Why was the Black Student Center moved from Student Success or Black excellence to Student Life? 00:52:28.000 --> 00:54:20.000 They, I don't know. They changed, well students, it used to be student. I don't know if necessarily changed. I think just the name changed. Changed because Student Life, what did they used to be called? SLL. Student—I'll have to look at one of my t-shirts to see what the SL is, but it's not necessarily changed because they've always been up under Student Affairs. They've always been part of Student Affairs and the student life center, all of this, not all of the centers—all of them have always been part of Student Affairs, but with, like the Pride Center and the Gender Equity Center was part of Associated Students (Incorporated), but then they branched off from Associated Students into Student Life. So that those twos’ kind of like move, but all the other ones have always been part of Student Life. So I'm not sure where that, that question you might have to check with director of the Black (Student) Center for more because I know that they just re- Student Life just, is it Student Life? They just recently changed their name. So they changed it to Student Life? They used to be. Yeah. See, I don't know. 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:44.000 Okay. No problem. Were there any, or what are some of the wrinkles that had to be worked out in the early days of the Center? 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000 I don't know. 00:54:46.000 --> 00:55:21.000 Okay. No problem. We can go on to the next one. You actually mentioned this a bit, but the main purpose of the Center's creation was to, you know, have a, a place of community for the Black students on campus, place where they can learn about their history and just feel a sense of community. How do you feel like this purpose has been accomplished? Or do you think we're still working on working towards that? 00:55:21.000 --> 00:56:39.000 I think that yes, but there's still growth needed. And if that growth needed as far as more space, more support as far as like, employees to help, you know, yes, the students play a great role, but—a great important role—but students tend to leave. They graduate, they move on. And so, you know, to have like a strong foundation where you have a director and, you know, a couple coordinators or, like full-time staff there, would be helpful. I don't think I answered that question. So ask me that question again. 00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:52.000 You answered it, but I'll ask it again. You mentioned the main purpose. How do you feel like it's been accomplished already? That was the main question. 00:56:52.000 --> 00:57:19.000 Oh, yes. And no. I mean, yes, we accomplished because we have it, but there's going to always be more that needs to be done and more that can be done. So we're not finished, by no means are we finished. 00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:40.000 Thank you for that. Um, what has been the impact of the BSC on you personally? 00:57:40.000 --> 00:59:09.000 Just the mere fact of knowing that one piece has been accomplished. We got it. So now let's make use of it. Let's make it bigger and better. Let's do all that we can in order to keep promoting. Let's not stop. And even though, like I had mentioned a couple of the events, sometimes events need to be duplicated because you have a different audience, you know, you have new students, you have new freshmen, sophomores that probably wasn't here years ago to see some of the fruits from the events that took place earlier. So sometimes, sometimes things can be duplicated in order to continue the education, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think I'll stop there. 00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:12.000 Okay. 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:14.000 Probably said to yourself, Lord have mercy. 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:20.000 No, It’s been interesting and so amazing. 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.000 Thank you for making me feel good. 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:40.000 No problem, it's true. Like I'm, I'm being serious cause I'm new to San Marcos. So all of this stuff is brand new to me, so I like hearing about it. What do you expect to see next for the BSC? 00:59:40.000 --> 01:03:21.000 I expect to see John (Rawlins III, Director of the Black Student Center) do amazing things. He has the energy, and he has the means to bring amazing, new and amazing things to campus. So I expect for—I expect to see some great energy and great education coming from the Center, especially once we get back to campus. Everything is just so, you don't really understand and realize the effect, because this is new to everybody, the effect that this pandemic has had on many, and you don't know cause, like I've realized during this pandemic that depression, loneliness and all of that, all of that stuff is real. And you don't know what individuals are going through. Especially students from like a virtual learning environment to, what if you’re the type of student that you're visual or you're hands on and you can't get that now. And so how is that impacting your ability to learn and to grasp and to understand and to move on from this. So I'm hoping to see great things once we are out of this pandemic and once we're able to move back to campus. And like I said, especially with the implementation of the cluster hiring, I'm hopeful that we're getting ready to get more Black faculty, possibly Black administrators here on campus. I really feel in my heart that our new president (Ellen Neufeldt) she's on her, just completed her—is she going on her second year or first year? But I think that coming this July, I think this will be her second year. I think she gets it. And I think that that is going to be all the difference in the world for Cal State San Marcos, to really, especially where we're centralized, where we are here in North County, North San Diego County to be a little bit more diverse. I think our president now gets it, understands it, believes it, feels it, and is gonna’ make sure that it happens. And I see that in the future. And I don't even know if that that was your question? 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.000 It was my question! 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:30.000 And I know I’m, saying that a lot so you know, you will have to cut that, but I'm just being me, Sierra. 01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:45.000 I love it. It's fine. And yes, you answered the question perfectly. Did you want to go back to that previous question about, how did you come to your understanding of Blackness? 01:03:45.000 --> 01:08:46.000 Hmm. I'll use this as an example. I came to my understanding of Blackness when my son was in the second grade. And like I told you, by this time I'm in Oakland and the school is not predominantly white at the time. You know, it was getting to be a mixture, but I started having problems with my son in school with this teacher, I'm getting phone calls every single day, every day about him doing this, him doing that, you know. What I think what hurt the most is when I had to go to the school to have a conversation with the principal because on my son's report card, the teacher wrote on there that he has, how did she phrase that? Animalistic behavior or something, something she said in that sense? And I'm like, whoa, that was you know, or is she calling my son an animal? Why teacher? But that made me realize, well, how can you put something like this on an important document? And it was one of those situations where I'm constantly getting calls, I'm taking off work, I'm going to class, I'm going to school, I'm doing everything that I needed to be doing. And then for her to put something like that. So I think at that point, it's like, is she calling my son out as a you know, is this because he's Black? And I'm using this as an example because I'm trying to think of how did I come to my real realization of Blackness, of being Black. And that took me for a loop. Later on I began to realize, later on—my son is 38 now. So I'm saying this was back in second grade. I think back then, my son realized at the time that he can get to this teacher and now thinking back on it, I think that she was afraid of my son. A second grader! How old are you? How old are you that? So I have a granddaughter who is seven in the first grade. So you're like, eight, and for teacher to be afraid of a eight-year-old child at that time. And then to say things like that. So naturally I went to the principal's office and I wanted him moved. I wanted him moved out her class because I didn't think that that was healthy. And you know, for him, definitely not, for me, it just, it was like one of those that sent me back like, wow. And that's kinda’ like the only thing that I can kind of like think of right now, coming back to that. But yeah, I think that, that time she was afraid of him and didn't know how to articulate it and but to articulate like that is demeaning. And that let me know that something wasn’t right with her to feel that way and to put that, you know, he ended up—he's married. He’s doing well. He ended up being, he's like one of those giant, what do you call them? Who's real quiet. Quiet giants or no that's not, what's that saying? 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:47.000 A gentle giant? 01:08:47.000 --> 01:09:29.000 Yes, thank you! And that he ended up that for that's how he is now. He’s about six two, and just so gentle, soft-spoken and it was like, you know. But anyway, sorry, that's the only thing that I can think of. I'm pretty sure as soon as we, soon as we end, this is like a whole bunch of things are going to pop up and say, you should have told her this, you should have said this, but right now? I'm not, I'm not feeling any of it. I don't have the words are just not there. 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:48.000 That's fine. And I'm glad you guys are good now, but I'm so sorry that happened to you and your son at the time. And I just hate that, you know, as Black people coming into our Blackness always has a, there's always a hand in trauma and you know, discrimination. 01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:52.000 Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. 01:09:52.000 --> 01:10:01.000 Yeah. But thank you for sharing. And my last question is, are there any questions that I should have asked that I didn't? 01:10:01.000 --> 01:13:14.000 You asked some pretty tough questions, Sierra. They were good, but they were tough. And I just hope, I only hope that I'm not a good, um, it's so funny. I'm not a good public speaker. I'm not a good interviewer. And it's so funny that I'm saying that to say, when I came to work for Associated Students (Incorporated) on campus, probably the first year we have a faculty staff association, African-American Faculty Staff Association that has since been renamed. It used to be African-American Faculty, Staff Association, AAFSA, but once the Black Student Center came on board, they renamed it to Black Faculty Staff Association to be more in alignment, more in unison with, we had the Black Student Union, which was a student, which is a student organization. Then we got the Black faculty staffs no, the Black Student Center. And so then that's when they wanted to rename AAFSA to the Black Faculty Staff Association. But back then, when I first came to Associated Students (Incorporated), they needed a president for the African-American Faculty Staff Association. And because, you know, we're, our numbers. We're just. Multiple people have served that role before, but you're just so limited that after I was there for like about a year, they asked me to do it. And of course, I no! I can't be no president, president, no! And it's so funny because a lot of my colleagues, you know: we're here for you, we'll be here, blah-blah-blah. So I said yes, ended up in that role for two years. And with that is like, when we would have functions or a recognition ceremony, we have our signature, soulful luncheon, all those things I'm up on that podium, it's like just the, nervous as all get out. I can't do this, I can't do this. And then you get me up on that podium with that microphone. And I just wouldn't be quiet. I'm just up there just blah-blah-blah-blah. You know? And it just, for whatever event it was, it was wonderful. It was wonderful. So it's like, why am I even telling you, why am I even saying this? I don't even know why? I brought it up for a reason, I lost my train of thought, but—I don't know Sierra. And like I say, when I get off this call, I'm going to say, yeah, I knew that's why I was bringing it up. I brought that up for a reason, but I don’t know. 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:19.000 Oh my goodness. 01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:26.000 I think we need to end this while I am ahead. If I am ahead. (laughter) 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:30.000 You're doing so good, don’t doubt yourself. 01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:32.000 Just being myself. 01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:35.000 Alright then. 01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:40.000 Well, I appreciate you taking the time out with me. Hopefully your other interviews will go smoothly. 01:13:40.000 --> 00:00:00.000 Oh my gosh, this one went perfectly and thank you for taking your time for me as well and this project as a whole. And your input is so important to this project and just thank you. And now I'm going to stop recording. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs.
 ; 
 ; This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made.
 ; 
 ; Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection.
 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder.
 ; 
 ; The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the library's materials.
 ; 
 ; In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive
 ; 30
 ; information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=McWilliamsMarilyn_JenkinsSierra_2021-04-05.xml McWilliamsMarilyn_JenkinsSierra_2021-04-05.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
McWilliams, Marilyn. Interview April 5th, 2021.
Description
An account of the resource
Marilyn McWilliams retired after 23 years at California State University San Marcos, where she most recently was the Administrative Assistant for the Office of Inclusive Excellence. McWilliams has been particularly active in advocacy and assistance to underrepresented communities on campus, and has been recognized by the Black Student Union at their awards night, named a Civility Champion, and received the Jonathan Pollard Award for social justice through student affairs. In her interview, McWilliams gives an in-depth account of her Black Experience starting with her childhood. McWilliams considers her childhood connection to education and how that led her to an administrative role at California State University San Marcos. McWilliams also discusses the CSUSM Black Student Center, her function in a supportive capacity, and the important role students' advocacy played in the creation of the Center.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-09
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-04-05
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marilyn McWilliams
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sierra Jenkins
Subject
The topic of the resource
Anti-Black racism
California State University San Marcos -- Staff
California State University San Marcos. Black Student Center
California State University San Marcos. Office of Inclusive Excellence
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Marilyn McWilliams
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Black Student Center Oral History Project
Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
CSUSM history
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/cfbcfdbddbd9beedbf64c24022cc850d.pdf
d78973bff43fc03bd6d4bc72e7bc7d93
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
McWilliams, Marilyn. Interview transcript, April 5, 2021.
Description
An account of the resource
Marilyn McWilliams retired after 23 years at California State University San Marcos, where she most recently was the Administrative Assistant for the Office of Inclusive Excellence. McWilliams has been particularly active in advocacy and assistance to underrepresented communities on campus, and has been recognized by the Black Student Union at their awards night, named a Civility Champion, and received the Jonathan Pollard Award for social justice through student affairs. In her interview, McWilliams gives an in-depth account of her Black Experience starting with her childhood. McWilliams considers her childhood connection to education and how that led her to an administrative role at California State University San Marcos. McWilliams also discusses the CSUSM Black Student Center, her function in a supportive capacity, and the important role students' advocacy played in the creation of the Center.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Marilyn McWilliams
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sierra Jenkins
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-04-05
Subject
The topic of the resource
Anti-Black racism
California State University San Marcos -- Staff
California State University San Marcos. Office of Inclusive Excellence
California State University San Marcos. Black Student Center
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Marilyn McWilliams
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
McWilliamsMarilyn_JenkinsSierra_2021-04-05_transcript
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Black Student Center Oral History Project
Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
CSUSM history
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/e65b97d315ca4d4d50564b970e124827.pdf
2aacebaf11afc9c5c1d34ab0000c4551
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Transcripts
Description
An account of the resource
Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mifflin, Marnie. Interview transcript, February 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript of interview with Margaret "Marnie" Mifflin. Mifflin shares her experience living throughout Southern California as an active community member and dedicated volunteer. In this interview, she recounts working as a switchboard operator, hospital aide, bus driver, and docent in Camp Pendleton. Mifflin also discusses her marriage to a U.S. Marine, motherhood, and civic engagement.
This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Margaret Mifflin
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Faye Jonason
Robert Mifflin
Melissa Martin
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-24
Subject
The topic of the resource
Bus drivers
Camp Pendleton (Calif.)
Hospitals -- Employees
Marine Corps spouses
Motor vehicle drivers
Tour guides (Persons)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Fallbrook (Calif.)
Oceanside (Calif.)
San Clemente (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
SC-027
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In copyright.</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Margaret Mifflin
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MifflinMargaret_JonasonFaye_2023-02-24_Transcript
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Lucy Wheeler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
George and Alethea Nagata
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Nagata, George and Alethea. Interview November 16, 2022 SC027-33 1:06:45 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Japanese Americans Japanese Americans -- Forced removal and internment, 1942-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Concentration camps -- Arizona -- Yuma Poston Relocation Center (Ariz.) Agricultural laborers -- California Agricultural laborers -- Colorado Family farms -- California George and Alethea Nagata Lucy Wheeler mp4 NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.mp4 1.0:|23(9)|31(10)|38(15)|46(5)|53(9)|60(9)|67(11)|74(13)|94(17)|112(5)|133(12)|154(7)|161(3)|168(7)|179(6)|193(13)|209(14)|226(10)|233(13)|244(13)|251(14)|258(9)|272(15)|283(9)|296(17)|307(12)|314(18)|332(7)|342(5)|350(6)|364(15)|379(16)|390(7)|407(7)|415(5)|451(4)|463(3)|475(5)|483(12)|490(14)|499(14)|507(7)|518(12)|525(10)|554(7)|562(4)|583(9)|600(6)|612(9)|620(12)|627(10)|646(17)|657(3)|670(4)|677(13)|689(10)|698(9)|721(15)|757(4)|788(7)|808(6)|818(15)|826(9)|841(7)|853(9)|872(8)|930(6) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/c63c2f7309ad26fa08b81a49964676b7.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction/ Family backgrounds George and Alethea Nagata explain their family backgrounds. They are both second generation Japanese-American citizens. George Nagata was born in Gardena, CA in 1924. He explains that his father immigrated to the United States from the city of Kumamoto, Japan around 1900. He moved around the country working various jobs, including in farming. His parents married around 1920, and the family had a farm by the time George was born. The family later moved to Torrance, CA and then to Bellflower, CA in order find better farming conditions.
 ; 
 ; Althea Nagata was born in 1926. Her parents moved around California during her early childhood, living in Orange County, Bonsall, and San Luis Rey. Her father became involved in farming after immigrating to the U.S. from Japan in 1905 and settling in Orange County, where he began growing peppers. Arizona ; Bellflower (Calif.) ; Bonsall (Calif.) ; Farming ; Gardena (Calif.) ; Immigration ; Kumamoto, Japan ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Melons ; Orange County (Calif.) ; Peppers ; San Francisco (Calif.) ; San Luis Rey (Calif.) ; Seattle (Wash.) ; Second-generation Japanese American citizens ; Strawberries ; Texas ; Torrance (Calif.) 0 650 George Nagata’s education/ The family farm George Nagata recounts his school years as a teenager. Nagata explains that due to financial difficulties and his father’s ill health, his family was forced to commute throughout Southern California throughout his high school years, which interrupted his schooling. He was also registered at two different high schools including a school in Oceanside, CA. He also explains that his mother took over the farming duties due to his father’s health. The family harvested strawberries and Italian squash and sold the produce to the San Francisco market. Education ; Farming ; High school ; Italian squash ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; San Francisco (Calif.) ; Squash ; Strawberries ; Student 0 1007 George Nagata’s internment/ Work in Chicago George Nagata recounts his time at the Poston War Relocation Center, located in Yuma County, AZ. Nagata was only sixteen years old when his family was removed and interred starting May 15, 1942. He recalls the dark train ride and internees having to stuff their own mattresses with straw upon arrival to the camp. He was interned at Poston for a little over a year before leaving for Chicago, IL with a friend. He worked in Chicago in an auto mechanic shop for about four of five months before his family was released from Poston. Nagata explains that he and his family met one another again in Colorado in order to continue farm work. He farmed in Colorado for a man who owned an onion seed company. Nagata explains that he was never paid for his work. He remained in Colorado until 1944 or 1945 when he moved back to California. Auto mechanic ; Auto repair ; Chicago (Ill.) ; Colorado ; Farming ; Internees ; Internment ; Japanese internment ; Onion seed ; Santa Fe (NM.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; World War Two World War 2 Poston War Relocation Center ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 1510 George Nagata returns to California George Nagata discusses his return to Vista, CA after working in Colorado. He recounts moving into a friend’s avocado grove and stayed in a room that was converted from a chicken coop. In 1945, they found thirty acres of land that they were able to lease for a year before buying the property in order to begin farming. Nagata recalls that they originally lived on a tent on the property because there were no houses in the area. Avocado grove ; Chicken coop ; Colorado ; Farming ; Vista (Calif.) 0 1662 Alethea Nagata’s internment Alethea Nagata recounts her time at the Poston War Relocation Center located in Yuma County, AZ. She explains how her father rented land and raised strawberries in Rancho Santa Margarita. She recalls after the war broke out, her father and grandfather were arrested by the FBI and were sent to the San Diego jail before being transferred to Topanga, CA. Eventually, their entire family was sent to the Poston concentration camp. Nagata was in high school at the time of her internment. Nagata explains that her family did not experience the same harsh conditions that her husband’s family experienced. Although the Nagata’s families were both interned at Poston, the couple met after the war. Their families were also placed in different blocks at Poston. Arrest ; Farming ; FBI ; Internees ; Internment ; Japanese internment ; Poston War Relocation Center ; Rancho Santa Margarita (Calif.) ; San Diego (Calif.) ; Strawberries ; Topanga (Calif.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 1912 Alethea Nagata returns to California Alethea Nagata discusses returning to California after internment. She explains that her family was split up after their release from the Poston camp: her father and grandfather were sent to New Mexico, while the rest of the family returned to North County San Diego. It is unclear from the interview, but it can be inferred that her father and grandfather eventually made their way back to North County as well by 1945. Alethea Nagata’s family farm was left in the care of Escondido High School’s Vice Principal Mr. Grave and other caretakers until they could return home. Escondid High School ; Escondido (Calif.) ; Farming ; Lordsburg (NM.) ; North County San Diego (Calif.) ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; Poston War Relocation Center ; San Luis Rey (Calif.) ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Santa Fe (NM.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 2122 Education in internment/ George Nagata’s early career in farming George and Alethea Nagata discuss their education while in the concentration camps. They explain that while Alethea was able to graduate in the Poston camp, George did not have the opportunity to go to school. George Nagata also explains that when he applied to night school in Chicago, the institution did not consider Poston an accredited school and told him he would have to start his education over before applying to their program. George Nagata also discusses how he began his career in farming. He explains the challenges he faced in obtaining and paying back loans for his supplies, and how weather conditions ruined his crops. He also describes how they later invested in a strawberry freezer business, which also led to other financial challenges for the farm. Education ; Fallbrook (Calif.) ; Farming ; Freezer business ; Loans ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Night School ; Poston War Relocation Center ; Strawberries ; Student ; Ventura (Calif.) ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII ; Yuma County (AZ.) 0 2664 Alethea Nagata’s family farm/ Early experimentation on crops Alethea Nagata discusses her family farm in San Marcos, CA. Alethea Nagata describes her family’s farming business, which was led by her father, and later taken over by her brothers. The family grew crops such as asparagus, chili peppers, romaine lettuce, tomatoes, and strawberries. She explains that her family also grew cauliflower, which was not a money-making crop, but it helped to maintain workers. Nagata also recounts her father teaching her to drive a Caterpillar and her sister driving trucks around the farm. She reflects how she and her two sisters were involved on the farm and how her father respected women. 
 ; 
 ; George Nagata also explains how he worked with Althea’s Uncle Fred to encourage the experimentation on berries. They were involved in organizations such as the Farm Bureau and the Bracero program. He also recalls how they travelled to U.C. Davis to encourage the university in developing a new variety of berries that would be suitable for Southern California. They eventually went to the Legislature and asked one of the representatives to pass a budget which would allow farmers to experiment on new varieties of strawberries. George and Alethea also explain how they met on a blind date set up by Alethea’s Uncle Fred. 
 ; Asparagus ; Bracero program ; Cauliflower ; Chili peppers ; Davis (Calif.) ; Experimentation on berries ; Farm Bureau ; Farming ; Romaine lettuce ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Strawberries ; Tomatoes ; Truck driving ; U.C. Davis ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WWII 0 3211 Growth and diversity of crops George Nagata discusses the growth and diversity of crops in farming. He explains that growth and diversity began to improve when experimentation was granted in Southern California. The experiment transferred from the USDA property, to a plot in Orange County, before eventually finding home on Irvine Ranch. They developed various varieties of strawberries during the experiment. Crops ; Experimentation on berries ; Farming ; Growth and diversity of crops ; Irvine Ranch ; Orange County (Calif.) ; Strawberries ; USDA 0 3400 Farming blueberries and cherimoyas The Nagatas discuss growing blueberries and cherimoyas on their farm. They explain how labor-intensive it can be to harvest cherimoyas ; that although it is easy to grow cherimoyas in the Southern California climate, the fruit has to be hand-pollinated. Blueberries ; Cherimoyas ; Farming ; Farming techniques ; Hand-pollination ; Innovation in farming ; Oceanside (Calif.) 0 3565 Future of farming The Nagatas discuss the future of farming. They explain that farmers face many difficulties in succeeding in the market due to today’s political climate. They reflect on many issues such as the water rationing, changes to the global market, and competition. California laws ; Farming ; Future of farming ; Global market ; Market competition ; Political climate ; Politics ; Specialty crops ; Water rationing 0 Oral history Oral History of 2nd generation (George and Alethea Nagata) who represent four generations of Japanese Americans contributing to the agricultural industry of North County San Diego, California. During their interview the Nagatas discuss their family history, their forced internments at Poston Relocation Center in Yuma, Arizona during World War II, their lives post-internment, and their working lives as agricultural laborers and family farmers. The Nagatas discuss their operations in detail and muse on the future of farming in the United States. Lucy Wheeler: Today is November 16th, 2022, on behalf of the North County Oral History Initiative Project. We’re here at the Nagata Farm, in Oceanside bordering on Fallbrook and Bonsall. My name is Lucy Wheeler, and let’s go inside and meet them! (Lucy is initially on a balcony or deck, then moves inside to meet the Nagatas) Lucy Wheeler: Good morning. George and Alethea Nagata (both nod) Good morning. Wheeler: It’s so nice to be here, and I’d like to introduce you to our audience. Um, on our left we have Mr. George Nagata. George Nagata: Yep. (nodding) Wheeler: And Alethea Nagata, Nagata. (Mrs. Nagata nods) Um, they are second generation of four generations— George Nagata: (nodding) Yes, correct. Wheeler: —and we would love to hear your story, about how your families came to America, to the United States, and mostly just about how you’ve managed to live to your age. So let’s begin by where you were born, and what year, and then just briefly an introduction about how your ancestors came here. It’s your story, but predominantly setting the stage with your history. Do you want to go first, George? George Nagata: Alright. I was born in Gardena, California, in 1924, April 24th. Um, um, my father came over in about 1900, from, uh, a city of Kumamoto, Japan, which is in the south, southern Japan. And, uh, the family were, uh—they loaned money and, loan sharks I guess you’d call ‘em. And, um, they were pretty well off, and they would, uh, uh, have the rice as a collateral for the loaner to bring in. So, they would pile up a lot of rice and, and then they couldn’t pay, they took the rice. But they didn’t know what to do with it. So, after a while they decided to start a sake factory, and they progressed in it, and, and they were pretty well off. Uh, my father just went to school, and, and in fact he graduated from university and he was well educated for, um, people at that time. And so when he―he said that he used to get up in the morning and he had nothing to do so he would go out hunting for birds and he would bring it home, and, and eat those birds. But he got tired of it, and he wanted a, a more adventurous so he decided to come to United States and at first he landed in, uh, uh, Seattle, then came to San Francisco, and he went to night school there and he was a house boy for some old people. And, uh, uh, he didn’t—he learned his English, so he went into various business because if he needed money he would just send a letter to Japan. They would send him money to do whatever he wanted to do. So, he did some farming of cotton in Arizona, and then in Texas. But he wasn’t successful. He said he went to work for a railroad, and uh, and, uh, uh, in Arizona, and uh after a while he said he got tired of that. So, he, uh, come down to Los Angeles and he was just moaning around and doing a little farm work for people and I guess he did some joint venture with other people. But, he wasn’t successful so he decided at age, about, uh, forty-eight, he thought “Oh, I’m getting old. I’d better go find a bride!” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) So, he went to Japan and married my mother, and they came over in about 1920. And their first child was born in, in 1921, but only lived for nine months. She had diphtheria and she died. And so, next child was myself. In 1924, I was born, and my father bought a, a farm from some friend who was, uh, uh,―made enough money to go back to Japan. So, my father bought this farm, and they were working it, but they weren’t that successful. So, um, they decided to move from Gardena to Torrance and I was about four years old, and, and, and my mother would take the uncooked rice and they’d build a little pot, a fireplace, and then they, they asked me to watch them so that a fire won’t go out and I, I kept feeding the wood in there to keep the uh, rice cooked. By 12 o’clock the rice was ready, We would have a lunch. And then my mother would go back to work. And, uh, from Torrance, uh, we farmed there for about three years and my dad decided to go to Heinz, which is uh, uh, near Bellflower, California. And we were, uh, farming there and he planted uh, uh, strawberries and some melons and I was about six or seven years old. And dad would say that “I’m going to teach you how to drive a horse.” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) So he made a little sled, and, and he wanted me to pick the melon and put it in this box, and haul it back to the shed, so he could pack it. And I did that for a while. But, you know, being so young that I, I wanted to play! I did not want to work. (chuckles) Uh, he used to tell me “You gotta help me.” And, my brother Harry was born in 1925 (turns his head towards his wife) and that was in, um, Torrance, and— Wheeler: Let’s, uh— George Nagata: And uh, huh? (turns to look at his wife) Wheeler: Oh, I was just going to say, let’s let her tell her part up to that point. George Nagata: Okay. Wheeler: And then we’ll connect how you met each other. So, tell us about your— Alethea Nagata: I was born in Bonsall, California. Wheeler: Very close! Alethea Nagata: October 15th, 1926. And my parents had moved from, from Orange County to Bonsall, to change a little bit of their f—their, you know—to a new land, sort of. And so that’s where we, um, settled for a while. And then, uh, he moved to San Luis Rey where he started farming again. Wheeler: What were your parents’ name? Alethea Nagata: Wor Tasuke and Kane Yaskochi Wheeler: Okay. Alethea Nagata: And (clears her throat) they were both married already in Japan in about 1919. And they, they came to America separately. My father came about 1920 with his father, and my mother came about a year—I believe, about a year or so later. And, uh, they settled in Orange County. Wheeler: And your father was here in—what year did you say? 1920? Alethea Nagata: About 1920. Wheeler: But his father— Alethea Nagata: Was here earlier. Wheeler: Earlier. Alethea Nagata: He arrived in the U.S. 1905, right after the San Francisco earthquake. And that’s where their journey sort of began. And he―um, my grandfather did various jobs along the way, and then―in 1905―and then he landed in Orange County, where there were, a few, I believe, a few Japanese already there. And so, he started the, the growing peppers. Wheeler: And became the Pepper King? Alethea Nagata: Well, (smiles) that’s what they called him. Wheeler: (laughs) Alethea Nagata: Anyway, that was sort of the beginning of the peppers. Wheeler: Very good. Well, how did you two meet? George Nagata: Well, uh, that was after, after the World War II. Well, uh— Wheeler: So, it’s a substantial difference then— George Nagata: yea, (nods) Wheeler: —in the time that you came and when you met. Alethea Nagata: Yes! Well this was after the war, so— Wheeler: Okay. Alethea Nagata: So, there— Wheeler: In the, in the interim, tell us where you went to school then, um. Were you in school in, um? George Nagata: Oh, I was a, a, in school in, in, Oceanside, before evacuation. The problem was that, uh, when we moved to Oceanside in 1940, my father got sick, yeah. We were building a house so we could move to Oceanside from Bellflower, California where he had farmed, and I was about fifteen years old. And he was building his house and then he said “I got a backache, and it’s really bad.” So, I took him to a doctor, and the doctor says “I can’t help you.” He said “You gotta go to a specialist.” And, uh, we were, uh, uh, broke because we just moved and we put all the money into building the house and, and preparing the land and so, uh, my dad went to the doctor and they found out he had pleurisy and so they put him in the hospital and uh, uh, he was in the hospital for three months! And, uh, we had to commute from Oceanside to the Los Angeles every day. So, my mother said “Let’s, uh, live with a friend in Los Angeles where it’s closer to see dad.” So, we, uh, my mother and I went to live with this friend of our family and we commuted to the hospital every night from there. From Downey to Los Angeles. And so, I was living in Downey, so I had to still go to school, so I registered at Downey High and went to school there a while. But, before we moved—when we moved to Oceanside, I started school in Oceanside and went about a month, or a month and a half to Oceanside. Then I transferred back to Downey and then once my dad got out of the hospital I went back to Oceanside and my dad couldn’t work. So, my mother did all the work. And, uh, I went back to Oceanside but my studies all messed up because of moving all the time, and, uh, so— Wheeler: Were you farming at the time? George Nagata: No, um, my mother was doing the farming. But we helped out as much as possible. We were absolutely broke! When my dad got sick, it cost us a lot of money to take care of him. So, we were—so, my mother had to go see friends to borrow money from them, because we couldn’t get any money. We didn’t have any property, anything to— We had an old automobile and an old truck, (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) so— Wheeler: What kind of farming did you do, what—? George Nagata: Uh, just had five acres of strawberries. Wheeler: Oh! That’s exciting. George Nagata: With strawberries, you plant the first year, and take the runner, and plant the runner, so you don’t harvest till second year! So, when we were farming there the first year, we planted a little bit of Italian squash, and we sold it to San Francisco, because the market was better there, and that’s how we were able to feed ourselves, and also, we went to work for other farmers. We did a bit of harvesting, but they, uh, wanted me to drive a horse with a cultivator— Wheeler: (laughs) George Nagata: —because my dad taught me how to do it, and they needed a person to drive the horse. So, I was assigned to do that every day! I had to harness the horse and get the cultivator, and cultivate the crop! Wheeler: And now, how, how old were you then when the second world war started? George Nagata: Well, I was sixteen. Wheeler: And tell us a little bit about—since you had not met each other at that time— George Nagata: No, no— Alethea Nagata: Not yet. George Nagata: No— Wheeler: Tell me how you— George Nagata: No, that was before the war. Now, uh, come May, I think about the 15th of May of 1942, we were evacuated. We were ordered to go to the Santa Fe Train Depot, and load, get on this train. And so, they said that you could only take two suitcases each. And so, we went and bought a suit—suitcase for each of us. And, and we packed up our suitcase. We went to the train depot and we boarded a train in the morning, and they had NPs on the train. They wouldn’t let us open the window or anything. It’s all shaded. And we didn’t know where we were going. And about three o’clock in the afternoon, uh, we went and the train stopped in Barstow, and they gave us a sandwich so that, you know, then we continued to Poston, Arizona. And when we got to Arizona, they put us on a bus and transported us to the concentration camp, and at first we had to stuff the mattress with straw because there was nothing there. They had to make―we got there at 8:30, 9 o’clock at night and we had to make our own bed. They gave us a cot and for each of us and so we went to sleep, and— Wheeler: How long were you there? (clears her throat) George Nagata: We were—Well, I was, I myself, was there only for a little over a year. And I, I was a, a—my friend said―he was going to Chicago―“Don’t you wanna go to Chicago?” I said “Yeah, I’ll call along, tag along with you, because I don’t know the country. I want to go.” So, I went to Chicago myself, with this friend and I, I learned how to be a auto mechanic, because I worked in the shop. There is a lot of people who were experienced mechanics and they taught me how to do all this repair. So, we had a full garage and all these people would teach me. So I was pretty confident that I could make a living. So, I went to Chicago and got a job as a mechanic. And, and I worked there for about four or five months, and, uh, my dad said that they gotta leave the camp, because they’re asking everybody to leave. So, my dad says “Meet me in Colorado. I’m going to see if we could do a little farming there.” So, um, I gave my job up and I went to Grand Junction, Colorado, and my father―the reason my father said that we could do some farming was because his nephew was from Hawaii and Santa Fe, New Mexico in a concentration camp, and his assets were frozen because he was an enemy Asian. But that money will be released if you want it for farming, and he said you’ll loan us the money, whatever you want. So, he said that he could come and live on the farm with us. So, my dad took him up on it, and we borrowed the money from him, and we started a little farm and I went to work for some man that owned a seed company. And he said “Why don’t you farm for me?” And he said “Go drive a tractor.” Well, I never drove a tractor, but anyway he says “You know how to drive?” I says “Yeah, I know how to drive.” So, I went there then he looked at me and he said “You don’t know how to drive.” Wheeler: (laughs) How long were you in Colorado? George Nagata: I was in Colorado ‘til 1944. From say ’43 to ’44, was it ’45 that I came to California? (turns to his wife) Alethea Nagata: (starts to laugh, as does Linda) I think so. I’m not sure what happened with you. George Nagata: We were farming and this man who owned this seed company was a crook. We never, I never got paid for working for him or then he said that if could grow some onion seed, that’s (unclear) to England, and he said “I’ll pay you for growing that thing.” And when it come to the end, we harvested it and gave him the seed, and I never seen a dime of it. Wheeler: Oh my! (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) George Nagata: And I asked the farmer that was next door who was also a evacuee that come out of a concentration camp to do a little farming. There was about five or six together and they were farming and, uh, they grew the onion seed for him. There was four or five other farmers. They said “Oh, that’s a good deal.” They all grew onion seed. And the company in England sent a check directly to those farmers. And the guy in the seed company, he really got mad and he said “They were supposed to pay me. And they said that if I sent it direct, that I was supposed to get a commission.” And my friend says “Okay, I’ll pay you commission, whatever you want.” He says “No, that won’t do.” He says “I want the check and that’s the only way I’ll accept it.” So everybody took the check and signed it and gave it to him, and they didn’t see a dime! (shrugs his shoulders incredulously and laughs) Wheeler: Oh. Wow! George Nagata: They said “We were stupid, because there’s no recourse because we signed (gestures with both hands to indicate signing a document) off the check.” (raises hands to indicate giving something up) So, uh, and this guy had a big farm in, uh, in Gilroy, California. And all my friend says is “Hey, forget it.” He says “You’re not going to get paid,” and sure enough― Wheeler: So, you left and came back to California, then? George Nagata: So, uh, after the war, we were allowed to come back to California, so I came to California to see how we could get back and where we could go. And, a friend of ours, uh, had a friend in Vista and he was a doctor and he―they own an avocado grove, and there was a house on it with a little shack there that was a chicken coop converted into a room. So, when we moved to California, he said “Stay in this chicken coop for a while.” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) So, what we did―we just―I loaded the truck up and a little pickup and we brought all of our stuff over. And we lived in the chicken coop and we were looking for land where we could farm a lease. We don’t have enough money to buy any property, so we, uh, uh, found, uh, uh, thirty acres of land that he wanted to sell. But, he said “I tell you what I’ll do. I’ll lease, lease it to you, uh, and, uh, you have to buy the property after one year.” So, we decided we’d better go ahead and get that land. So, we went there. There’s no house or anything. So, we put up a tent and lived in the tent and the houses were hard to get because right after the war there was nothing. There was a pre-hab house that was on sale. It’s not made out of, uh, wood. It’s, it’s, uh, the wood is hemlock, but it’s more of a composition material and we bought that and put it together and we lived in this house. And then, uh― Wheeler: This was in 1945? George Nagata: (nods) 1945. Wheeler: Okay. Let’s stop and, and have Alethea tell us about what― Alethea Nagata: Well, so this is, this is before the camp. Wheeler: Right. Alethea Nagata: And my father was―had a farm in Rancho Santa Margarita. He rented land. That was before it was turned into Camp Pendleton. And, (clears her throat) and he was raising strawberries there. And that’s when the, um, when the war broke out and the FBI picked him up there, um, in Rancho Santa Margarita. Well, he was living in San Luis Rey, but he was going back and forth to Santa Margarita. He rented the property from Rancho Santa Margarita, from a gentleman named Whitman. (clears throat) And, uh, uh, (clears throat) and then, um, he was―the FBI came to this ranch Santa Margarita and picked him up. And I was in San Marcos, living with my grandparents. And that’s where they picked up my grandfather, the same day. Wheeler: Was this Kiso? Alethea Nagata: Yes, Kiso. And they took my father and Kiso to the San Diego jail, and they stayed overnight there. And then (clears throat), and then they transferred them to a, I believe it’s a Tohanga, California, in Los Angeles. And so, we as a family were able to go and see them. And that’s where our journey, uh, begins with our family getting ready to go to camp. ‘Cuz I was going to Escondido High School, and then, uh, because the war had broken out, we, uh, we had to, uh, go to get ready to go to camp. And my uncle was trying to decide whether to move our whole family to Colorado because, uh, as long as you’re not on the west coast, you could, you could, uh, you know, farm, uh, in Colorado, or probably in the Midwest. But, my father, uh, said not to go, but to go to camp. So that’s what we did. We all got to, got ready to go to camp. Wheeler: And where was the― Alethea Nagata: And we ended up in Poston. Wheeler: Oh. Alethea Nagata: Um, my experience was not, uh, as, as harsh as his (points to Mr. Nagata), because, um, other family members had gone a little earlier and did the beds and things. So, um, I didn’t―I―my grandmother wasn’t in very good condition. So, we probably went a couple of days later. And so, uh, the cots and things, the ones that went first, you know, got theirs, or got it ready for us. So, we―we ended up in Camp One in Poston, Arizona and I believe you ended up in Poston (turning her head to look at Mr. Nagata), but in a different, uh― Wheeler: Different section? Alethea Nagata: Block. They were broken up into blocks. Wheeler: So, you had quite an experience before you’d even gotten married and established your― Alethea Nagata: Oh, yes! (laughing) Wheeler: ―careers in farming. Um, tell us about when you were allowed to come back. What changed your lives after that, besides getting married and meeting each other? Alethea Nagata: Well, my father and grandfather were sent to, uh, to Santa Fe, New Mexico and Lordsburg, New Mexico. They were in different facilities from us. They were, uh―my grandfather was released earlier than my father, was sent to the Poston camp where we were. And then my father was released, uh, I believe about 1944, and, um, and he came back to Poston. But, uh, in the meantime, we were living separately. Wheeler: Yes. Um, when you came back then, where did―when you came back, where did you―? You probably came back to Oceanside? George Nagata: (nods) We came back to Oceanside. Wheeler: And who― Alethea Nagata: My, my father and uh, uncle, and uh, my grandfather’s place was in San Marcos. Wheeler: Okay. Alethea Nagata: And my father had a place in San Luis Rey. And so, uh, his―his farm―we left the farm in, um―my grandfather’s farm was left in charge of a vice principal of Escondido High School. And he, he took over and―and we hired a, a family man to come in and oversee the place. And, uh, they lived in my grandfather’s house. There was a main house and then there was a kitchen area. And so, the people who, uh, the vice principal hired was a―well their name was Tarbutton. (laughs) I remember the name. And um―uh, the kitchen area was a―was a fairly large, and so the family was able to live there. And the main house, uh, was left, just left. And, uh, so when we came back from camp, that’s where we fir―we landed in San Marcos where my grandfather’s place. And my father had returned from camp just, just a―(shakes her head and tries to speak) when he was able, they were allowed to come back. So, he came back by himself with, I believe, my uncle’s wife and, and they planted, um, zucchini, I believe, some kind of a early crop. So, then he, then he, then he came back to Poston and picked us up. So, then we all came back later, just a little bit later. 1945. Wheeler: Wow. So, you were just― Alethea Nagata: But we do have, we had a place to―at least we had a home. Wheeler: Yes. Alethea Nagata: Yeah. And, uh― Wheeler: Exactly. Alethea Nagata: Mr. Grave, the vice principal, uh, took care of everything for us. So that was very nice. Wheeler: So, when did you graduate from high school, then? Alethea Nagata: I graduated in camp. Wheeler: Oh, did you? Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh. George Nagata: Well, I didn’t get to go to school. Wheeler: Okay, that―and that was probably not uncommon. George Nagata: Yeah. Wheeler: So, then actually― Alethea Nagata: And it wasn’t accepted either, or― George Nagata: So, when I was in Chicago, I wanted to go to night school. And I applied there, and they said that, that concentration camp I was in was not an acclaimed school, so you’re going to have to start over again. So, I says “Oh, I can’t start over again.” (both he and Wheeler laugh) So, uh, I didn’t get any education at all. Wheeler: No, but sometimes it’s not just all education in the school. So, what happened then after ’45 that you came back and started again? George Nagata: Uh, it was very tough (shaking his head). We didn’t have any equipment, and so, so (cell phone starts to ring). Excuse me. (reaches into pocket for cell phone) I don’t know who is calling. (looks at screen, and shakes his head) Scam! (Wheeler and Alethea Nagata laugh) George Nagata: So, when we got back to California, um, I went to the bank to borrow money and they laughed at me and said “You know, to tell you the truth, I’m not loaning you my money. He says “The bank has a depositor. They all deposit the money, and I’m responsible for it. So, I gotta have a collateral, whatever you own. But, I don’t own a thing, ‘cuz I can’t loan you any money.” So, in order for us to farm, we had to have a little bit of backing and so, uh, the L.A. produce market was loaning money to the growers, to advance the money, and they get all the produce. So, we borrowed the money from them, and started growing and sometimes it pays, and sometimes it doesn’t, because the market was, you know, some oversupply of tomatoes and things. And I would go over there and I would borrow money from, uh, for uh, buy fertilizer on credit. And they would just loan me the money, and one company there, I owed about three thousand dollars, and they wanted to get paid. I said “I don’t have any money right now. So, can you wait?” But what happened was that I planted, uh, twenty acres of strawberries and it was ready to harvest when I got hailed out. Because all the hail was just deforming the whole plant. And never produced a single berry! And so, I had all this money tied up into strawberries. And I can’t harvest anything. And the supply companies, this was, uh, uh, the fertilizer and insecticide I bought, I couldn’t pay for it. So, they wanted to sue me. And they reported it to the Credit Bureau that I haven’t paid for one year and they’re going to, uh, to file a lawsuit against me. And so, uh, when they had filed, I went back to the produce house, and I begged them to loan me some more money. I gotta pay that guy, or he’s going to sue me. And so, uh, I was able to borrow enough money to pay the, that fertilizer company off. And there was more, other companies, the seed companies. And I owed them money. They said they would hold off. And so next year I figured well, what I’m going to do is double the acreage of strawberries, and try to get the money back. And I planted forty acres of strawberries and we started harvesting in April and there was a beautiful crop! My God! Everybody was envious. I was harvesting 4,000 boxes a day. And all of a sudden it started to rain. (Wheeler and Alethea Nagata chuckle) And for two weeks straight! And it just destroyed the whole berries. And so, uh, his uncle (he points to his wife) was familiar with some freezer company in Fallbrook there and they talked him into starting a strawberry freezer! And, uh, he come to me and said “Hey, why don’t you invest in this. All the growers will put up money, and we’ll go ahead and process the strawberries.” And we were, before that we were sending our frozen berries to Smucker’s. Well, they paid pretty good. Well, I said “Fred, I think we shouldn’t go into this business. It’s a risky business.” He says “No, it’s a sure thing.” But, his company went bankrupt so he got a job in Oxnard or― Alethea Nagata: Ventura. George Nagata: Ventura, for his chili company. And he let us go and left his freezer go. But we were members of the Freezers so we had to ship it to him. So, I―the second crop, the rain had stopped, so we sent all of our berries to this freezer, and, and, uh, to buy the can and buy the sugar, well, somebody has to guarantee the payment on it. See? And so, about four or five of us volunteered to go ahead and sign the agreement that we’re responsible. Well, at the end of the season, they can’t pay for the cans, they can’t pay for the sugar. And so, they froze my bank account! Because I was one of the guaranteers. And hell, I couldn’t―I had workers, and I couldn’t―and my brother said “Hey, they froze the account. We can’t pay the, the help. We’ve got to pay the help.” So, “Oh, my god.” We went back to the produce house and borrowed some more money, and, and we were able to pay American Can and sugar. All of us growers put up the money to pay this off. And then the company went bankrupt. The strawberry in a frozen can, we―W.H. Ruth Company is a marketing (unclear), and they put it in a cold storage. And they couldn’t sell it, so they had it in cold storage so long that the storage fee ate up all of it. (chuckles) Wheeler: Right. George Nagata: And so, you know, we were out of― Wheeler: And there’s the― George Nagata: We took a beating. Oh my God. Wheeler: It was quite an adjustment after the war, getting established. We’ve kind of skipped over your coming back. You came back to San Marcos. And tell us a little bit more about how your family was farming and had you married at this point? Alethea Nagata: No. Wheeler: You hadn’t met each other. Alethea Nagata: No. Not yet. Wheeler: Okay. So, you were living in San Marcos. You were living in Oceanside? George Nagata: San Luis Rey, at that time. Wheeler: San Luis Rey. Alethea Nagata: But, he, he, uh, I’m getting confused now a little bit. But, um, there was so much that went on. We came back and, um, my grandfathers settled in San Marcos, and we―and our family were in San Luis Rey. So, um, my―I guess, my father―well, all I remember was coming back from camp and my father made me drive the Caterpillar and he was―because we didn’t have any help. And so, he―he got on the back and―and he wanted me to drive the Caterpillar. Well, I had never driven it before. But I―that stands out in my mind as an incident that I do remember, that when we first came back, that’s what he made me do! (laughs, as does Wheeler) Wheeler: And you had just graduated from high school at that point. Alethea Nagata: I had already finished in camp. Wheeler: So that was pretty, uh, different for women at any― Alethea Nagata: Well, my sisters― Wheeler: ―any (unclear) Alethea Nagata: There were three of us girls. The first three. And my sister drove trucks and, I mean, she did all kinds of things. Both of my sisters. And so, it wasn’t so outrageous. And my dad was extremely kind to women. Wheeler: Mmm. Alethea Nagata: For someone from Japan, he took care of the women. So, I do to this day remember that for being a Japanese man, that he―he respected women. So, that’s always been very nice. But, um, uh, the farm, well, he―we grew―he grew asparagus. And he still did grow chili peppers at that time. Wheeler: At that time, had they done the diversity that they do now? Or was that just beginning? Alethea Nagata: Then―then―then, the diversity began, um, when my younger brother kind of started taking over. Oh, my father was still involved with it. They grew romaine, and tomatoes, and things like that. So― Wheeler: As we look at the farmers now― Alethea Nagata: Strawberries, also. Wheeler: ―and the some fields will be waiting, like, some year we’ll plant, but others have those plants about 6 inches high. Others they’ll be almost grown. You can see how the changes. How did that all come about, just by trial and error? Or by deliberate planning? Alethea Nagata: Well, there’s, um―my father and my brother grew cauliflower, um, and that is not a money-making crop. But, they, they grew asp―the cauliflower because it kept the workers so that you had to maintain the workers, you know. That was a part of the problem, also, is to have enough help. Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Alethea Nagata: And so the reason for even planting it was, um, to keep the help, you know. That was quite a, um, problem in keeping―(turns her head toward Mr. Nagata) you know about keeping the workers. So― George Nagata: Getting back to her uncle, Fred. He took a liking to me and he wanted me to go around with him into like the Farm Bureau, and this labor, uh, the Bracero program, where we had association. And I spoke with one of the Board of Directors, and he took me all the places and introduced me to all the things that, and he was a, a, a U.C. Davis graduate. So, we would go into U.C. Davis and, and try to get, uh, the university to experiment, develop a new variety of berries for, suitable for southern California. And they said that uh there was no budget for it. So, we went to the Legislature and had one of our representatives, um, pass a budget so they could experiment. So, they, the university assigned a man and sent him down here where and we were trying new strawberries, grapes, and after a while it was successful that it helped us all survive the strawberry industry in, in southern California, from Oxnard to San Diego. We got a new variety and kept improving and improving our, our strawberries. And everybody was able to stay in business. Uncle Fred was one of the instigators in that. And he says one day to me “Hey, I got a blind date set up for you.” (Mrs. Nagata chuckles) We’re going to the Palladium.” (Alethea laughs) So, I wondered who it was? And it was her! (all three of them laugh) And so that’s how we got together. Alethea Nagata: Well, my uncle Fred was a, um, he was drafted into the Army when we were in camp. He was, yeah― Wheeler: He didn’t (unclear) Alethea Nagata: He was in the artillery, yeah. And he had, he saw action in Europe, and― (clears her throat) Wheeler: Hhmmm. This was quite a― Alethea Nagata: Yes. Wheeler: ―with your fam―some of your family back in Japan. Some of you in camp. And then he’s fighting in the― Alethea Nagata: The people in Japan were, were, couple of children that were left in Japan were from my grandfather. And, and, um, (clears throat) they were kind of farmed out. Because of the law, they were not able to come. He was not able to bring them later because one child was just born when my grandmother came to this country. She couldn’t handle a two-year-old boy and you know, on the, on the ship. So, they left two daughters in Japan, my grandfather did. And he had to, to farm them out and among relatives and, and the, the baby he had to farm out to a, a woman who would kind of take over childcare. And so, these poor women that were left in Japan, was pretty terrible, because of the law. And they were not able to come to the U.S. (clears throat). So that’s a little background but― Wheeler: Yes. Those are things that are barriers and we have to really think about― Alethea Nagata: Well, see, yeah. Because it was the Asians that were, were in that kind of predicament, whereas it did not affect the Europeans. Wheeler: Yes. So, after, um, about, say up until 1960, did things start to turn around then, for the growth and the diversity? When did that really take hold? George Nagata: Uh, it took hold about ten years after they granted a experiment in southern California. First it was, uh, U.S.D.A. property and it’s on the beach, where it was a little too small to do an experiment so the, uh, university had a property there in, uh, in, uh, Orange County that, uh, belonged to the university so they moved the experimental plot to, uh, Irvine Ranch. And Irvine Ranch gave them, I think, about twenty or thirty acres to the university and they started experimenting there. And they developed various varieties and that’s when we were able to adapt a new variety of strawberries here, and it was very successful. Wheeler: That is very interesting because we’re known for good strawberries that we have. George Nagata: That’s true. Wheeler: Right now, do you grow a lot, different kinds of crops? George Nagata: Well, after we retired, in about 1980, we, uh, figured to stop growing, uh, any kind of crop because it is a gamble and we didn’t want to, because they’re growing a lot of tomatoes in Mexico and strawberries in Mexico. And it’s hard to compete with produce from foreign countries. And they flooded the market, and they just grow thousands and thousands of acres of tomatoes and strawberries, that you can’t compete with them. And so, we decided we’re going to quit the farming business. We’ll quit. And I asked Neal and one of my nephews to, if they were interested, and they said they would take it over. So, I, we gave it to them. And we were operating okay, but the nephew got into gambling and he, uh, the company money― Wheeler: But the, um, back to the, the way that agriculture has changed, and how you survived from one kind of crops to another. What kind of things have you done that have been innovative in making that happen? Like were you, you were probably growing some asparagus or some other things besides the cauliflower. George Nagata: Well, we started to grow the crops, like blueberries. Wheeler: Okay. George Nagata: We put in about― Alethea Nagata: Cherimoya. George Nagata: ten acres of blueberries, and also the cherimoya, which is a fruit. I don’t know if you know what cherimoya is. It’s, um, (turns to his wife) what happened to the one I gave you? Alethea Nagata: I’ll, I’ll show it to her. Wheeler: There’s a lot of people that come here from all over the world, and they’d probably like to know that. George Nagata: And so, it hasn’t been very successful and the cherimoya takes a lot of labor, because you have to hand-pollinate those. But, uh, (looks to the left, off camera, and Mrs. Nagata reaches to the left to grab a cherimoya) Wheeler: Could you show that so―there we go. (Alethea places the cherimoya on the table in front of Wheeler) Tell us about this little piece of fruit. George Nagata: This is a small one! They get about this big! (gestures a wider diameter than the actual fruit) Wheeler: Oh really! George Nagata: Mm-hmm. (Alethea pushes the fruit across the table to Wheeler, and then pulls it back to center it on the table between them) Wheeler: Okay, there we go. You see that now? Um, well, there’s a lot of us that don’t know what that is, or how do you use it? And how do you grow it? George Nagata: It ripens and there’s a lot of seeds inside. You have to sort the seed out. Alethea Nagata: And people who love it, love it. They just― Wheeler: Is it a fruit? Alethea Nagata: It’s a fruit. George Nagata: I don’t― Wheeler: So― George Nagata: I don’t care for it (laughs) Alethea Nagata: It’s sort of like a slightly banana flavor, but the people who grow up with it― Wheeler: Is it easy to grow in this climate, in this soil? George Nagata: It’s easy to grow, but hard to set. It doesn’t form a fruit. You have to hand-pollinate them. Wheeler: Oh! Very interesting! George Nagata: The flower is like a trumpet (holds his hand up to indicate an open trumpet-shaped flower) so it can’t get the pollen inside, see. Wheeler: What do you eat it with? George Nagata: Yeah. Alethea Nagata: Well, um― Wheeler: Just by itself? Alethea Nagata: By itself, yeah. Wheeler: Like an apple? Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh. Wheeler: Very interesting. Alethea Nagata: Well, you have to remove the seeds, you know. But, yeah. Wheeler: So, this is very interesting in that we contribute so much to the agricultural industry in San Diego. It’s the fourth largest industry. So, you’ve contributed to this in so many ways. I’m fascinated by how you’ve had your ups and downs, the fact that there were times when the Japanese could not buy land here. There were times when they could, and how all these things change, and the incarceration was atrocious. But, you’ve survived it, and what do you see as the future of farming here? Is that a, too big a question? Alethea Nagata: It is a big, large question, because of the laws. How California is. George Nagata: They don’t want us to farm. Most of the politicians, they want to get rid of the farms. And that’s why they cut off the water for a lot of― Wheeler: That’s another thing that you’ve had to deal with, is the water situation. George Nagata: That’s right. Wheeler: And how is it so scarce now, and there’s, um, almost rationing. Well we’re restricted in how many times we can water our yards. So, so all of these things that impacted your livelihood, and we all want our children and our grandchildren to live happily ever after but that’s, it changes whether we like it or not. George Nagata: It changes. Alethea Nagata: I believe California was supplying United States with a lot of the, the vegetables and fruits, I believe. But I don’t know. California is really interesting. Wheeler: Yes, it is. The citrus fruits have been shipped all over the world. And yet, at the same time you’re talking about the strawberries and how that has been impacted, too. But, what other things have you, in your interesting lifespan, what other things have you―would you like to share with our community, our, with our future, what, what would you, what is your secret as they famously say? George Nagata: Well, I don’t think there’s very much future in the farming business because the foreign countries like Chile, and all those South American countries are growing and shipping all the stuff here, and Mexico. That’s a wide-open country there. And I farmed there for a couple of years and an associate with a Mexican partner. I grew, planted 500 acres of strawberries, down there. (Mrs. Nagata laughs) And, I told my partner that his job was to get the pickers, and, and make the cooler big enough so where we could handle 500 acres of strawberries. You have to pre-cool those strawberries or they won’t ship. And when you cool them down to 34 degrees, just before freezing, there is, the food gets firm, and you could ship it to the United States without damaging the fruit. Well, when it grows 500 acres, the facilities won’t handle but pay one-tenth of what they, uh, What I told him that. Well, he says “my brothers all have coolers.” I said “They’re not prepared for that. You gotta prepare for that. It’s got to be a cool, cool, 34 degrees. It has to have kind of a vacuum cooled deal, and you gotta set it up.” And he said “Don’t worry. I’ll get them to do it.” He doesn’t do it. So, we lost 500 acres of berries! Wheeler: There’s, yes. Those kinds of things are, um, it’s part of the change and how we have to look at things more global. George Nagata: That’s true. Wheeler: And sometimes we get really busy and forget that. But is there any other, um, things that you think that we could be doing to enhance the way that food is prepared or grown? George Nagata: Well, the only thing you could probably grow is specialty crops. Like tomatoes, they grow by the thousand acres. The farmer down there grows five thousand acres of tomatoes. And you can’t compete with people like that. Wheeler: No. So, what’s changing? George Nagata: So, uh, you gotta change the kind. But there’s very little crop that you could put in that, that you could sell to the mass market. Um, and, I don’t know what we can grow. We’ve been studying it for about ten years to see what is profitable. But, at first the blueberry was a very profitable business, but now everybody grows it, and they grow in Mexico, and they are earlier than we are, and they flood the market. And they also come from Chile, and they just flood the market. And that’s why they sell those blueberries so cheap. Wheeler: Right. The fact that we have labor and we have water sources that we are constantly looking at as to how, what we need and what we have to― George Nagata: Well, the trouble is, the workers don’t want to work on the farms, and they― Wheeler: The lack of interest in farming. Alethea Nagata: There’s the, there’s the politics. Some of it’s about the politics. Wheeler: Yes, unfortunately that’s everywhere. George Nagata: All these people they’re coming into the United States. None of them are working on the farms. They want other kinds of jobs. Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Well, there’s a lot of things that we’re trying to work out and I so appreciate your input and to, well, thank you more for the contributions you’ve made. It’s been phenomenal to hear your stories. Is there anything else you have to add, beca―? George Nagata: Right now, I can’t think. (they all laugh) Wheeler: Well, I cannot thank you enough. It’s been absolutely delightful. Thank you again. GLOSSARY: American Can (pg.10) Bracero program (pg.12) Camp Pendleton (pg.7) Caterpillar (pg.11) Cherimoya (pg.13-14) Credit Bureau (pg.9) Farm Bureau (pg.12) Freezers (pg.10) Grave, Mr. (pg.8) Heinz (pg.2) Irvine Ranch (pg.13) Kiso (pg.7) Kumamoto, Japan (pg.1) Poston, Arizona (pg.5,7-8) Rancho Santa Margarita (pg.7) Santa Fe Train Depot (pg.5) Smucker’s (pg.10) Tarbutton (pg.8) Tasuke, Wor (pg.2) Tohanga, California (pg.7) Yaskochi, Kane (pg.2) W. H. Ruth Company (pg.10) https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
 ; 
 ; This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. 
 ; 
 ; Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. 
 ; 
 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. 
 ; 
 ; The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. 
 ; 
 ; In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.xml NagataGeorge_WheelerLucy_2022-11-16_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Nagata, George and Alethea. Interview November 16, 2022
Description
An account of the resource
Oral History of 2nd generation (George and Alethea Nagata) who represent four generations of Japanese Americans contributing to the agricultural industry of North County San Diego, California. During their interview the Nagatas discuss their family history, their forced internments at Poston Relocation Center in Yuma, Arizona during World War II, their lives post-internment, and their working lives as agricultural laborers and family farmers. The Nagatas discuss their operations in detail and muse on the future of farming in the United States.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-33
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agricultural laborers -- California
Agricultural laborers -- Colorado
Family farms -- California
Japanese Americans
Japanese Americans -- Forced removal and internment, 1942-1945
Poston Relocation Center (Ariz.)
World War, 1939-1945 -- Concentration camps -- Arizona -- Yuma
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Alethea Nagata
George Nagata
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lucy Wheeler
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Colorado
Southern California
Yuma (Ariz.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Alethea and George Nagata
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/e5bf1f97a35282317729bf7098f39994.pdf
b4024d6a5dbc4418f2bcf07e8586c7fd
PDF Text
Text
ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Lucy Wheeler: Today is November 16th, 2022, on behalf of the North County Oral History
Initiative Project. We’re here at the Nagata Farm, in Oceanside bordering on Fallbrook and
Bonsall. My name is Lucy Wheeler, and let’s go inside and meet them! [Lucy is initially on a
balcony or deck, then moves inside to meet the Nagatas]
Lucy Wheeler: Good morning.
George and Alethea Nagata [both nod] Good morning.
Wheeler: It’s so nice to be here, and I’d like to introduce you to our audience. Um, on our left we
have Mr. George Nagata.
George Nagata: Yep. [nodding]
Wheeler: And Alethea Nagata, Nagata. [Mrs. Nagata nods] Um, they are second generation of
four generations—
George Nagata: [nodding] Yes, correct.
Wheeler: —and we would love to hear your story, about how your families came to America, to
the United States, and mostly just about how you’ve managed to live to your age. So let’s begin
by where you were born, and what year, and then just briefly an introduction about how your
ancestors came here. It’s your story, but predominantly setting the stage with your history. Do
you want to go first, George?
George Nagata: Alright. I was born in Gardena, California, in 1924, April 24th. Um, um, my
father came over in about 1900, from, uh, a city of Kumamoto, Japan, which is in the south,
southern Japan. And, uh, the family were, uh—they loaned money and, loan sharks I guess you’d
call ‘em. And, um, they were pretty well off, and they would, uh, uh, have the rice as a collateral
for the loaner to bring in. So, they would pile up a lot of rice and, and then they couldn’t pay,
they took the rice. But they didn’t know what to do with it. So, after a while they decided to start
a sake factory, and they progressed in it, and, and they were pretty well off. Uh, my father just
went to school, and, and in fact he graduated from university and he was well educated for, um,
people at that time. And so when he―he said that he used to get up in the morning and he had
nothing to do so he would go out hunting for birds and he would bring it home, and, and eat
those birds. But he got tired of it, and he wanted a, a more adventurous so he decided to come to
United States and at first he landed in, uh, uh, Seattle, then came to San Francisco, and he went
to night school there and he was a house boy for some old people. And, uh, uh, he didn’t—he
learned his English, so he went into various business because if he needed money he would just
send a letter to Japan. They would send him money to do whatever he wanted to do. So, he did
some farming of cotton in Arizona, and then in Texas. But he wasn’t successful. He said he went
to work for a railroad, and uh, and, uh, uh, in Arizona, and uh after a while he said he got tired of
that. So, he, uh, come down to Los Angeles and he was just moaning around and doing a little
farm work for people and I guess he did some joint venture with other people. But, he wasn’t
successful so he decided at age, about, uh, forty-eight, he thought “Oh, I’m getting old. I’d better
go find a bride!” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] So, he went to Japan and married my mother, and they
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
1
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
came over in about 1920. And their first child was born in, in 1921, but only lived for nine
months. She had diphtheria and she died. And so, next child was myself. In 1924, I was born,
and my father bought a, a farm from some friend who was, uh, uh,―made enough money to go
back to Japan. So, my father bought this farm, and they were working it, but they weren’t that
successful. So, um, they decided to move from Gardena to Torrance and I was about four years
old, and, and, and my mother would take the uncooked rice and they’d build a little pot, a
fireplace, and then they, they asked me to watch them so that a fire won’t go out and I, I kept
feeding the wood in there to keep the uh, rice cooked. By 12 o’clock the rice was ready, We
would have a lunch. And then my mother would go back to work. And, uh, from Torrance, uh,
we farmed there for about three years and my dad decided to go to Heinz, which is uh, uh, near
Bellflower, California. And we were, uh, farming there and he planted uh, uh, strawberries and
some melons and I was about six or seven years old. And dad would say that “I’m going to teach
you how to drive a horse.” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] So he made a little sled, and, and he wanted
me to pick the melon and put it in this box, and haul it back to the shed, so he could pack it. And
I did that for a while. But, you know, being so young that I, I wanted to play! I did not want to
work. [chuckles] Uh, he used to tell me “You gotta help me.” And, my brother Harry was born in
1925 [turns his head towards his wife] and that was in, um, Torrance, and—
Wheeler: Let’s, uh—
George Nagata: And uh, huh? [turns to look at his wife]
Wheeler: Oh, I was just going to say, let’s let her tell her part up to that point.
George Nagata: Okay.
Wheeler: And then we’ll connect how you met each other. So, tell us about your—
Alethea Nagata: I was born in Bonsall, California.
Wheeler: Very close!
Alethea Nagata: October 15th, 1926. And my parents had moved from, from Orange County to
Bonsall, to change a little bit of their f—their, you know—to a new land, sort of. And so that’s
where we, um, settled for a while. And then, uh, he moved to San Luis Rey where he started
farming again.
Wheeler: What were your parents’ name?
Alethea Nagata: Wor Tasuke and Kane Yaskochi
Wheeler: Okay.
Alethea Nagata: And [clears her throat] they were both married already in Japan in about 1919.
And they, they came to America separately. My father came about 1920 with his father, and my
mother came about a year—I believe, about a year or so later. And, uh, they settled in Orange
County.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
2
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: And your father was here in—what year did you say? 1920?
Alethea Nagata: About 1920.
Wheeler: But his father—
Alethea Nagata: Was here earlier.
Wheeler: Earlier.
Alethea Nagata: He arrived in the U.S. 1905, right after the San Francisco earthquake. And that’s
where their journey sort of began. And he―um, my grandfather did various jobs along the way,
and then―in 1905―and then he landed in Orange County, where there were, a few, I believe, a
few Japanese already there. And so, he started the, the growing peppers.
Wheeler: And became the Pepper King?
Alethea Nagata: Well, [smiles] that’s what they called him.
Wheeler: [laughs]
Alethea Nagata: Anyway, that was sort of the beginning of the peppers.
Wheeler: Very good. Well, how did you two meet?
George Nagata: Well, uh, that was after, after the World War II. Well, uh—
Wheeler: So, it’s a substantial difference then—
George Nagata: yea, [nods]
Wheeler: —in the time that you came and when you met.
Alethea Nagata: Yes! Well this was after the war, so—
Wheeler: Okay.
Alethea Nagata: So, there—
Wheeler: In the, in the interim, tell us where you went to school then, um. Were you in school in,
um?
George Nagata: Oh, I was a, a, in school in, in, Oceanside, before evacuation. The problem was
that, uh, when we moved to Oceanside in 1940, my father got sick, yeah. We were building a
house so we could move to Oceanside from Bellflower, California where he had farmed, and I
was about fifteen years old. And he was building his house and then he said “I got a backache,
and it’s really bad.” So, I took him to a doctor, and the doctor says “I can’t help you.” He said
“You gotta go to a specialist.” And, uh, we were, uh, uh, broke because we just moved and we
put all the money into building the house and, and preparing the land and so, uh, my dad went to
the doctor and they found out he had pleurisy and so they put him in the hospital and uh, uh, he
was in the hospital for three months! And, uh, we had to commute from Oceanside to the Los
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
3
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Angeles every day. So, my mother said “Let’s, uh, live with a friend in Los Angeles where it’s
closer to see dad.” So, we, uh, my mother and I went to live with this friend of our family and we
commuted to the hospital every night from there. From Downey to Los Angeles. And so, I was
living in Downey, so I had to still go to school, so I registered at Downey High and went to
school there a while. But, before we moved—when we moved to Oceanside, I started school in
Oceanside and went about a month, or a month and a half to Oceanside. Then I transferred back
to Downey and then once my dad got out of the hospital I went back to Oceanside and my dad
couldn’t work. So, my mother did all the work. And, uh, I went back to Oceanside but my
studies all messed up because of moving all the time, and, uh, so—
Wheeler: Were you farming at the time?
George Nagata: No, um, my mother was doing the farming. But we helped out as much as
possible. We were absolutely broke! When my dad got sick, it cost us a lot of money to take care
of him. So, we were—so, my mother had to go see friends to borrow money from them, because
we couldn’t get any money. We didn’t have any property, anything to— We had an old
automobile and an old truck, [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] so—
Wheeler: What kind of farming did you do, what—?
George Nagata: Uh, just had five acres of strawberries.
Wheeler: Oh! That’s exciting.
George Nagata: With strawberries, you plant the first year, and take the runner, and plant the
runner, so you don’t harvest till second year! So, when we were farming there the first year, we
planted a little bit of Italian squash, and we sold it to San Francisco, because the market was
better there, and that’s how we were able to feed ourselves, and also, we went to work for other
farmers. We did a bit of harvesting, but they, uh, wanted me to drive a horse with a cultivator—
Wheeler: [laughs]
George Nagata: —because my dad taught me how to do it, and they needed a person to drive the
horse. So, I was assigned to do that every day! I had to harness the horse and get the cultivator,
and cultivate the crop!
Wheeler: And now, how, how old were you then when the second world war started:
George Nagata: Well, I was sixteen.
Wheeler: And tell us a little bit about—since you had not met each other at that time—
George Nagata: No, no—
Alethea Nagata: Not yet.
George Nagata: No—
Wheeler: Tell me how you—
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
4
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
George Nagata: No, that was before the war. Now, uh, come May, I think about the 15th of May
of 1942, we were evacuated. We were ordered to go to the Santa Fe Train Depot, and load, get
on this train. And so, they said that you could only take two suitcases each. And so, we went and
bought a suit—suitcase for each of us. And, and we packed up our suitcase. We went to the train
depot and we boarded a train in the morning, and they had NPs on the train. They wouldn’t let us
open the window or anything. It’s all shaded. And we didn’t know where we were going. And
about three o’clock in the afternoon, uh, we went and the train stopped in Barstow, and they gave
us a sandwich so that, you know, then we continued to Poston, Arizona. And when we got to
Arizona, they put us on a bus and transported us to the concentration camp, and at first we had to
stuff the mattress with straw because there was nothing there. They had to make―we got there at
8:30, 9 o’clock at night and we had to make our own bed. They gave us a cot and for each of us
and so we went to sleep, and—
Wheeler: How long were you there? [clears her throat]
George Nagata: We were—Well, I was, I myself, was there only for a little over a year. And I, I
was a, a—my friend said―he was going to Chicago―“Don’t you wanna go to Chicago?” I said
“Yeah, I’ll call along, tag along with you, because I don’t know the country. I want to go.” So, I
went to Chicago myself, with this friend and I, I learned how to be a auto mechanic, because I
worked in the shop. There is a lot of people who were experienced mechanics and they taught me
how to do all this repair. So, we had a full garage and all these people would teach me. So I was
pretty confident that I could make a living. So, I went to Chicago and got a job as a mechanic.
And, and I worked there for about four or five months, and, uh, my dad said that they gotta leave
the camp, because they’re asking everybody to leave. So, my dad says “Meet me in Colorado.
I’m going to see if we could do a little farming there.” So, um, I gave my job up and I went to
Grand Junction, Colorado, and my father―the reason my father said that we could do some
farming was because his nephew was from Hawaii and Santa Fe, New Mexico in a concentration
camp, and his assets were frozen because he was an enemy Asian. But that money will be
released if you want it for farming, and he said you’ll loan us the money, whatever you want. So,
he said that he could come and live on the farm with us. So, my dad took him up on it, and we
borrowed the money from him, and we started a little farm and I went to work for some man that
owned a seed company. And he said “Why don’t you farm for me?” And he said “Go drive a
tractor.” Well, I never drove a tractor, but anyway he says “You know how to drive?” I says
“Yeah, I know how to drive.” So, I went there then he looked at me and he said “You don’t
know how to drive.”
Wheeler: [laughs] How long were you in Colorado?
George Nagata: I was in Colorado ‘til 1944. From say ’43 to ’44, was it ’45 that I came to
California? [turns to his wife]
Alethea Nagata: [starts to laugh, as does Linda] I think so. I’m not sure what happened with you.
George Nagata: We were farming and this man who owned this seed company was a cook. We
never, I never got paid for working for him or then he said that if could grow some onion seed,
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
5
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
that’s what the land leases to England, and he said “I’ll pay you for growing that thing.” And
when it come to the end, we harvested it and gave him the seed, and I never seen a dime of it.
Wheeler: Oh my! [Mrs. Nagata chuckles]
George Nagata: And I asked the farmer that was next door who was also a evacuee that come out
of a concentration camp to do a little farming. There was about five or six together and they were
farming and, uh, they grew the onion seed for him. There was four or five other farmers. They
said “Oh, that’s a good deal.” They all grew onion seed. And the company in England sent a
check directly to those farmers. And the guy in the seed company, he really got mad and he said
“They were supposed to pay me. And they said that if I sent it direct, that I was supposed to get a
commission.” And my friend says “Okay, I’ll pay you commission, whatever you want.” He says
“No, that won’t do.” He says “I want the check and that’s the only way I’ll accept it.” So
everybody took the check and signed it and gave it to him, and they didn’t see a dime! [shrugs
his shoulders incredulously and laughs]
Wheeler: Oh. Wow!
George Nagata: They said “We were stupid, because there’s no recourse because we signed
[gestures with both hands to indicate signing a document] off the check.” [raises hands to
indicate giving something up] So, uh, and this guy had a big farm in, uh, in Gilroy, California.
And all my friend says is “Hey, forget it.” He says “You’re not going to get paid,” and sure
enough―
Wheeler: So, you left and came back to California, then?
George Nagata: So, uh, after the war, we were allowed to come back to California, so I came to
California to see how we could get back and where we could go. And, a friend of ours, uh, had a
friend in Vista and he was a doctor and he―they own an avocado grove, and there was a house
on it with a little shack there that was a chicken coop converted into a room. So, when we moved
to California, he said “Stay in this chicken coop for a while.” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] So, what
we did―we just―I loaded the truck up and a little pickup and we brought all of our stuff over.
And we lived in the chicken coop and we were looking for land where we could farm a lease. We
don’t have enough money to buy any property, so we, uh, uh, found, uh, uh, thirty acres of land
that he wanted to sell. But, he said “I tell you what I’ll do. I’ll lease, lease it to you, uh, and, uh,
you have to buy the property after one year.” So, we decided we’d better go ahead and get that
land. So, we went there. There’s no house or anything. So, we put up a tent and lived in the tent
and the houses were hard to get because right after the war there was nothing. There was a prehab house that was on sale. It’s not made out of, uh, wood. It’s, it’s, uh, the wood is hemlock, but
it’s more of a composition material and we bought that and put it together and we lived in this
house. And then, uh,―
Wheeler: This was in 1945?
George Nagata: [nods] 1945.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
6
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: Okay. Let’s stop and, and have Aletheatell us about what―
Alethea Nagata: Well, so this is, this is before the camp.
Wheeler: Right.
Alethea Nagata: And my father was―had a farm in Rancho Santa Margarita. He rented land.
That was before it was turned into Camp Pendleton. And, [clears her throat] and he was raising
strawberries there. And that’s when the, um, when the war broke out and the FBI picked him up
there, um, in Rancho Santa Margarita. Well, he was living in San Luis Rey, but he was going
back and forth to Santa Margarita. He rented the property from Rancho Santa Margarita, from a
gentleman named Whitman. [clears throat] And, uh, uh, [clears throat] and then, um, he
was―the FBI came to this ranch Santa Margarita and picked him up. And I was in San Marcos,
living with my grandparents. And that’s where they picked up my grandfather, the same day.
Wheeler: Was this Kiso?
Alethea Nagata: Yes, Kiso. And they took my father and Kiso to the San Diego jail, and they
stayed overnight there. And then [clears throat], and then they transferred them to a, I believe
it’s a Tohanga, California, in Los Angeles. And so, we as a family were able to go and see them.
And that’s where our journey, uh, begins with our family getting ready to go to camp. ‘Cuz I was
going to Escondido High School, and then, uh, because the war had broken out, we, uh, we had
to, uh, go to get ready to go to camp. And my uncle was trying to decide whether to move our
whole family to Colorado because, uh, as long as you’re not on the west coast, you could, you
could, uh, you know, farm, uh, in Colorado, or probably in the Midwest. But, my father, uh, said
not to go, but to go to camp. So that’s what we did. We all got to, got ready to go to camp.
Wheeler: And where was the―
Alethea Nagata: And we ended up in Poston.
Wheeler: Oh.
Alethea Nagata: Um, my experience was not, uh, as, as harsh as his [points to Mr. Nagata],
because, um, other family members had gone a little earlier and did the beds and things. So, um,
I didn’t―I―my grandmother wasn’t in very good condition. So, we probably went a couple of
days later. And so, uh, the cots and things, the ones that went first, you know, got theirs, or got it
ready for us. So, we―we ended up in Camp One in Poston, Arizona and I believe you ended up
in Poston [turning her head to look at Mr. Nagata], but in a different, uh―
Wheeler: Different section?
Alethea Nagata: Block. They were broken up into blocks.
Wheeler: So, you had quite an experience before you’d even gotten married and established
your―
Alethea Nagata: Oh, yes! [laughing]
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
7
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: ―careers in farming. Um, tell us about when you were allowed to come back. What
changed your lives after that, besides getting married and meeting each other?
Alethea Nagata: Well, my father and grandfather were sent to, uh, to Santa Fe, New Mexico and
Lordsburg, New Mexico. They were in different facilities from us. They were, uh―my
grandfather was released earlier than my father, was sent to the Poston camp where we were.
And then my father was released, uh, I believe about 1944, and, um, and he came back to Poston.
But, uh, in the meantime, we were living separately.
Wheeler: Yes. Um, when you came back then, where did―when you came back, where did
you―? You probably came back to Oceanside?
George Nagata: [nods] We came back to Oceanside.
Wheeler: And who―
Alethea Nagata: My, my father and uh, uncle, and uh, my grandfather’s place was in San
Marcos.
Wheeler: Okay.
Alethea Nagata: And my father had a place in San Luis Rey. And so, uh, his―his farm―we left
the farm in, um―my grandfather’s farm was left in charge of a vice principal of Escondido High
School. And he, he took over and―and we hired a, a family man to come in and oversee the
place. And, uh, they lived in my grandfather’s house. There was a main house and then there was
a kitchen area. And so, the people who, uh, the vice principal hired was a―well their name was
Tarbutton. [laughs] I remember the name. And um―uh, the kitchen area was a―was a fairly
large, and so the family was able to live there. And the main house, uh, was left, just left. And,
uh, so when we came back from camp, that’s where we fir―we landed in San Marcos where my
grandfather’s place. And my father had returned from camp just, just a―[shakes her head and
tries to speak] when he was able, they were allowed to come back. So, he came back by himself
with, I believe, my uncle’s wife and, and they planted, um, zucchini, I believe, some kind of a
early crop. So, then he, then he, then he came back to Poston and picked us up. So, then we all
came back later, just a little bit later. 1945.
Wheeler: Wow. So, you were just―
Alethea Nagata: But we do have, we had a place to―at least we had a home.
Wheeler: Yes.
Alethea Nagata: Yeah. And, uh―
Wheeler: Exactly.
Alethea Nagata: Mr. Grave, the vice principal, uh, took care of everything for us. So that was
very nice.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
8
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: So, when did you graduate from high school, then?
Alethea Nagata: I graduated in camp.
Wheeler: Oh, did you?
Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh.
George Nagata: Well, I didn’t get to go to school.
Wheeler: Okay, that―and that was probably not uncommon.
George Nagata: Yeah.
Wheeler: So, then actually―
Alethea Nagata: And it wasn’t accepted either, or―
George Nagata: So, when I was in Chicago, I wanted to go to night school. And I applied there,
and they said that, that concentration camp I was in was not an acclaimed school, so you’re
going to have to start over again. So, I says “Oh, I can’t start over again.” [both he and Wheeler
laugh] So, uh, I didn’t get any education at all.
Wheeler: No, but sometimes it’s not just all education in the school. So, what happened then
after ’45 that you came back and started again?
George Nagata: Uh, it was very tough [shaking his head]. We didn’t have any equipment, and so,
so [cell phone starts to ring]. Excuse me. [reaches into pocket for cell phone] I don’t know who
is calling. [looks at screen, and shakes his head] Scam!
[Wheeler and Alethea Nagata laugh]
George Nagata: So, when we got back to California, um, I went to the bank to borrow money
and they laughed at me and said “You know, to tell you the truth, I’m not loaning you my money.
He says “The bank has a depositor. They all deposit the money, and I’m responsible for it. So, I
gotta have a collateral, whatever you own. But, I don’t own a thing, ‘cuz I can’t loan you any
money.” So, in order for us to farm, we had to have a little bit of backing and so, uh, the L.A.
produce market was loaning money to the growers, to advance the money, and they get all the
produce. So, we borrowed the money from them, and started growing and sometimes it pays, and
sometimes it doesn’t, because the market was, you know, some oversupply of tomatoes and
things. And I would go over there and I would borrow money from, uh, for uh, buy fertilizer on
credit. And they would just loan me the money, and one company there, I owed about three
thousand dollars, and they wanted to get paid. I said “I don’t have any money right now. So, can
you wait?” But what happened was that I planted, uh, twenty acres of strawberries and it was
ready to harvest when I got hailed out. Because all the hail was just deforming the whole plant.
And never produced a single berry! And so, I had all this money tied up into strawberries. And I
can’t harvest anything. And the supply companies, this was, uh, uh, the fertilizer and insecticide I
bought, I couldn’t pay for it. So, they wanted to sue me. And they reported it to the Credit
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
9
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Bureau that I haven’t paid for one year and they’re going to, uh, to file a lawsuit against me. And
so, uh, when they had filed, I went back to the produce house, and I begged them to loan me
some more money. I gotta pay that guy, or he’s going to sue me. And so, uh, I was able to
borrow enough money to pay the, that fertilizer company off. And there was more, other
companies, the seed companies. And I owed them money. They said they would hold off. And so
next year I figured well, what I’m going to do is double the acreage of strawberries, and try to
get the money back. And I planted forty acres of strawberries and we started harvesting in April
and there was a beautiful crop! My God! Everybody was envious. I was harvesting 4,000 boxes a
day. And all of a sudden it started to rain. [Wheeler and Alethea Nagata chuckle] And for two
weeks straight! And it just destroyed the whole berries. And so, uh, his uncle [he points to his
wife] was familiar with some freezer company in Fallbrook there and they talked him into
starting a strawberry freezer! And, uh, he come to me and said “Hey, why don’t you invest in
this. All the growers will put up money, and we’ll go ahead and process the strawberries.” And
we were, before that we were sending our frozen berries to Smucker’s. Well, they paid pretty
good. Well, I said “Fred, I think we shouldn’t go into this business. It’s a risky business.” He
says “No, it’s a sure thing.” But, his company went bankrupt so he got a job in Oxnard or―
Alethea Nagata: Ventura.
George Nagata: Ventura, for his chili company. And he let us go and left his freezer go. But we
were members of the Freezers so we had to ship it to him. So, I―the second crop, the rain had
stopped, so we sent all of our berries to this freezer, and, and, uh, to buy the can and buy the
sugar, well, somebody has to guarantee the payment on it. See? And so, about four or five of us
volunteered to go ahead and sign the agreement that we’re responsible. Well, at the end of the
season, they can’t pay for the cans, they can’t pay for the sugar. And so, they froze my bank
account! Because I was one of the guaranteers. And hell, I couldn’t―I had workers, and I
couldn’t―and my brother said “Hey, they froze the account. We can’t pay the, the help. We’ve
got to pay the help.” So, “Oh, my god.” We went back to the produce house and borrowed some
more money, and, and we were able to pay American Can and sugar. All of us growers put up
the money to pay this off. And then the company went bankrupt. The strawberry in a frozen can,
we―W.H. Ruth Company is a marketing ____________, and they put it in a cold storage. And
they couldn’t sell it, so they had it in cold storage so long that the storage fee ate up all of it.
[chuckles]
Wheeler: Right.
George Nagata: And so, you know, we were out of―
Wheeler: And there’s the―
George Nagata: We took a beating. Oh my God.
Wheeler: It was quite an adjustment after the war, getting established. We’ve kind of skipped
over your coming back. You came back to San Marcos. And tell us a little bit more about how
your family was farming and had you married at this point?
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
10
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: No.
Wheeler: You hadn’t met each other.
Alethea Nagata: No. Not yet.
Wheeler: Okay. So, you were living in San Marcos. You were living in Oceanside?
George Nagata: San Luis Rey, at that time.
Wheeler: San Luis Rey.
Alethea Nagata: But, he, he, uh, I’m getting confused now a little bit. But, um, there was so
much that went on. We came back and, um, my grandfathers settled in San Marcos, and we―and
our family were in San Luis Rey. So, um, my―I guess, my father―well, all I remember was
coming back from camp and my father made me drive the Caterpillar and he was―because we
didn’t have any help. And so, he―he got on the back and―and he wanted me to drive the
Caterpillar. Well, I had never driven it before. But I―that stands out in my mind as an incident
that I do remember, that when we first came back, that’s what he made me do! [laughs, as does
Wheeler]
Wheeler: And you had just graduated from high school at that point.
Alethea Nagata: I had already finished in camp.
Wheeler: So that was pretty, uh, different for women at any―
Alethea Nagata: Well, my sisters―
Wheeler: ―any _________
Alethea Nagata: There were three of us girls. The first three. And my sister drove trucks and, I
mean, she did all kinds of things. Both of my sisters. And so, it wasn’t so outrageous. And my
dad was extremely kind to women.
Wheeler: Mmm.
Alethea Nagata: For someone from Japan, he took care of the women. So, I do to this day
remember that for being a Japanese man, that he―he respected women. So, that’s always been
very nice. But, um, uh, the farm, well, he―we grew―he grew asparagus. And he still did grow
chili peppers at that time.
Wheeler: At that time, had they done the diversity that they do now? Or was that just beginning?
Alethea Nagata: Then―then―then, the diversity began, um, when my younger brother kind of
started taking over. Oh, my father was still involved with it. They grew romaine, and tomatoes,
and things like that. So―
Wheeler: As we look at the farmers now,―
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
11
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: Strawberries, also.
Wheeler: ―and the some fields will be waiting, like, some year we’ll plant, but others have those
plants about 6 inches high. Others they’ll be almost grown. You can see how the changes. How
did that all come about, just by trial and error? Or by deliberate planning?
Alethea Nagata: Well, there’s, um―my father and my brother grew cauliflower, um, and that is
not a money-making crop. But, they, they grew asp―the cauliflower because it kept the workers
so that you had to maintain the workers, you know. That was a part of the problem, also, is to
have enough help.
Wheeler: Mm-hmm.
Alethea Nagata: And so the reason for even planting it was, um, to keep the help, you know.
That was quite a, um, problem in keeping―[turns her head toward Mr. Nagata] you know about
keeping the workers. So―
George Nagata: Getting back to her uncle, Fred. He took a liking to me and he wanted me to go
around with him into like the Farm Bureau, and this labor, uh, the Bracero program, where we
had association. And I spoke with one of the Board of Directors, and he took me all the places
and introduced me to all the things that, and he was a, a, a U.C. Davis graduate. So, we would go
into U.C. Davis and, and try to get, uh, the university to experiment, develop a new variety of
berries for, suitable for southern California. And they said that uh there was no budget for it. So,
we went to the Legislature and had one of our representatives, um, pass a budget so they could
experiment. So, they, the university assigned a man and sent him down here where and we were
trying new strawberries, grapes, and after a while it was successful that it helped us all survive
the strawberry industry in, in southern California, from Oxnard to San Diego. We got a new
variety and kept improving and improving our, our strawberries. And everybody was able to stay
in business. Uncle Fred was one of the instigators in that. And he says one day to me “Hey, I got
a blind date set up for you.” [Mrs. Nagata chuckles] We’re going to the Palladium.”
[Alethealaughs] So, I wondered who it was? And it was her! [all three of them laugh] And so
that’s how we got together.
Alethea Nagata: Well, my uncle Fred was a, um, he was drafted into the Army when we were in
camp. He was, yeah,―
Wheeler: He didn’t ______________
Alethea Nagata: He was in the artillery, yeah. And he had, he saw action in Europe, and― [clears
her throat]
Wheeler: Hhmmm. This was quite a―
Alethea Nagata: Yes.
Wheeler: ―with your fam―some of your family back in Japan. Some of you in camp. And then
he’s fighting in the―
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
12
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: The people in Japan were, were, couple of children that were left in Japan were
from my grandfather. And, and, um, [clears throat] they were kind of farmed out. Because of the
law, they were not able to come. He was not able to bring them later because one child was just
born when my grandmother came to this country. She couldn’t handle a two-year-old boy and
you know, on the, on the ship. So, they left two daughters in Japan, my grandfather did. And he
had to, to farm them out and among relatives and, and the, the baby he had to farm out to a, a
woman who would kind of take over childcare. And so, these poor women that were left in
Japan, was pretty terrible, because of the law. And they were not able to come to the U.S. [clears
throat]. So that’s a little background but―
Wheeler: Yes. Those are things that are barriers and we have to really think about―
Alethea Nagata: Well, see, yeah. Because it was the Asians that were, were in that kind of
predicament, whereas it did not affect the Europeans.
Wheeler: Yes. So, after, um, about, say up until 1960, did things start to turn around then, for the
growth and the diversity? When did that really take hold?
George Nagata: Uh, it took hold about ten years after they granted a experiment in southern
California. First it was, uh, U.S.D.A. property and it’s on the beach, where it was a little too
small to do an experiment so the, uh, university had a property there in, uh, in, uh, Orange
County that, uh, belonged to the university so they moved the experimental plot to, uh, Irvine
Ranch. And Irvine Ranch gave them, I think, about twenty or thirty acres to the university and
they started experimenting there. And they developed various varieties and that’s when we were
able to adapt a new variety of strawberries here, and it was very successful.
Wheeler: That is very interesting because we’re known for good strawberries that we have.
George Nagata: That’s true.
Wheeler: Right now, do you grow a lot, different kinds of crops?
George Nagata: Well, after we retired, in about 1980, we, uh, figured to stop growing, uh, any
kind of crop because it is a gamble and we didn’t want to, because they’re growing a lot of
tomatoes in Mexico and strawberries in Mexico. And it’s hard to compete with produce from
foreign countries. And they flooded the market, and they just grow thousands and thousands of
acres of tomatoes and strawberries, that you can’t compete with them. And so, we decided we’re
going to quit the farming business. We’ll quit. And I asked Neal and one of my nephews to, if
they were interested, and they said they would take it over. So, I, we gave it to them. And we
were operating okay, but the nephew got into gambling and he, uh, the company money―
Wheeler: But the, um, back to the, the way that agriculture has changed, and how you survived
from one kind of crops to another. What kind of things have you done that have been innovative
in making that happen? Like were you, you were probably growing some asparagus or some
other things besides the cauliflower.
George Nagata: Well, we started to grow the crops, like blueberries.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
13
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: Okay.
George Nagata: We put in about―
Alethea Nagata: Cherimoya.
George Nagata: ten acres of blueberries, and also the cherimoya, which is a fruit. I don’t know if
you know what cherimoya is. It’s, um, [turns to his wife] what happened to the one I gave you?
Alethea Nagata: I’ll, I’ll show it to her.
Wheeler: There’s a lot of people that come here from all over the world, and they’d probably like
to know that.
George Nagata: And so, it hasn’t been very successful and the cherimoya takes a lot of labor,
because you have to hand-pollinate those. But, uh, [looks to the left, off camera, and Mrs. Nagata
reaches to the left to grab a cherimoya]
Wheeler: Could you show that so―there we go. [Aletheaplaces the cherimoya on the table in
front of Wheeler] Tell us about this little piece of fruit.
George Nagata: This is a small one! They get about this big! [gestures a wider diameter than the
actual fruit]
Wheeler: Oh really!
George Nagata: Mm-hmm.
[Aletheapushes the fruit across the table to Wheeler, and then pulls it back to center it on the
table between them]
Wheeler: Okay, there we go. You see that now? Um, well, there’s a lot of us that don’t know
what that is, or how do you use it? And how do you grow it?
George Nagata: It ripens and there’s a lot of seeds inside. You have to sort the seed out.
Alethea Nagata: And people who love it, love it. They just―
Wheeler: Is it a fruit?
Alethea Nagata: It’s a fruit.
George Nagata: I don’t―
Wheeler: So―
George Nagata: I don’t care for it [laughs]
Alethea Nagata: It’s sort of like a slightly banana flavor, but the people who grow up with it―
Wheeler: Is it easy to grow in this climate, in this soil?
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
14
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
George Nagata: It’s easy to grow, but hard to set. It doesn’t form a fruit. You have to handpollinate them.
Wheeler: Oh! Very interesting!
George Nagata: The flower is like a trumpet [holds his hand up to indicate an open trumpetshaped flower] so it can’t get the pollen inside, see.
Wheeler: What do you eat it with?
George Nagata: Yeah.
Alethea Nagata: Well, um―
Wheeler: Just by itself?
Alethea Nagata: By itself, yeah.
Wheeler: Like an apple?
Alethea Nagata: Uh-huh.
Wheeler: Very interesting.
Alethea Nagata: Well, you have to remove the seeds, you know. But, yeah.
Wheeler: So, this is very interesting in that we contribute so much to the agricultural industry in
San Diego. It’s the fourth largest industry. So, you’ve contributed to this in so many ways. I’m
fascinated by how you’ve had your ups and downs, the fact that there were times when the
Japanese could not buy land here. There were times when they could, and how all these things
change, and the incarceration was atrocious. But, you’ve survived it, and what do you see as the
future of farming here? Is that a, too big a question?
Alethea Nagata: It is a big, large question, because of the laws. How California is.
George Nagata: They don’t want us to farm. Most of the politicians, they want to get rid of the
farms. And that’s why they cut off the water for a lot of―
Wheeler: That’s another thing that you’ve had to deal with, is the water situation.
George Nagata: That’s right.
Wheeler: And how is it so scarce now, and there’s, um, almost rationing. Well we’re restricted in
how many times we can water our yards. So, so all of these things that impacted your livelihood,
and we all want our children and our grandchildren to live happily ever after but that’s, it
changes whether we like it or not.
George Nagata: It changes.
Alethea Nagata: I believe California was supplying United States with a lot of the, the vegetables
and fruits, I believe. But I don’t know. California is really interesting.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
15
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Wheeler: Yes, it is. The citrus fruits have been shipped all over the world. And yet, at the same
time you’re talking about the strawberries and how that has been impacted, too. But, what other
things have you, in your interesting lifespan, what other things have you―would you like to
share with our community, our, with our future, what, what would you, what is your secret as
they famously say?
George Nagata: Well, I don’t think there’s very much future in the farming business because the
foreign countries like Chile, and all those South American countries are growing and shipping all
the stuff here, and Mexico. That’s a wide-open country there. And I farmed there for a couple of
years and an associate with a Mexican partner. I grew, planted 500 acres of strawberries, down
there. [Mrs. Nagata laughs] And, I told my partner that his job was to get the pickers, and, and
make the cooler big enough so where we could handle 500 acres of strawberries. You have to
pre-cool those strawberries or they won’t ship. And when you cool them down to 34 degrees, just
before freezing, there is, the food gets firm, and you could ship it to the United States without
damaging the fruit. Well, when it grows 500 acres, the facilities won’t handle but pay one-tenth
of what they, uh, What I told him that. Well, he says “my brothers all have coolers.” I said
“They’re not prepared for that. You gotta prepare for that. It’s got to be a cool, cool, 34 degrees.
It has to have kind of a vacuum cooled deal, and you gotta set it up.” And he said “Don’t worry.
I’ll get them to do it.” He doesn’t do it. So, we lost 500 acres of berries!
Wheeler: There’s, yes. Those kinds of things are, um, it’s part of the change and how we have to
look at things more global.
George Nagata: That’s true.
Wheeler: And sometimes we get really busy and forget that. But is there any other, um, things
that you think that we could be doing to enhance the way that food is prepared or grown?
George Nagata: Well, the only thing you could probably grow is specialty crops. Like tomatoes,
they grow by the thousand acres. The farmer down there grows five thousand acres of tomatoes.
And you can’t compete with people like that.
Wheeler: No. So, what’s changing?
George Nagata: So, uh, you gotta change the kind. But there’s very little crop that you could put
in that, that you could sell to the mass market. Um, and, I don’t know what we can grow. We’ve
been studying it for about ten years to see what is profitable. But, at first the blueberry was a
very profitable business, but now everybody grows it, and they grow in Mexico, and they are
earlier than we are, and they flood the market. And they also come from Chile, and they just
flood the market. And that’s why they sell those blueberries so cheap.
Wheeler: Right. The fact that we have labor and we have water sources that we are constantly
looking at as to how, what we need and what we have to―
George Nagata: Well, the trouble is, the workers don’t want to work on the farms, and they―
Wheeler: The lack of interest in farming.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
16
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
Alethea Nagata: There’s the, there’s the politics. Some of it’s about the politics.
Wheeler: Yes, unfortunately that’s everywhere.
George Nagata: All these people they’re coming into the United States. None of them are
working on the farms. They want other kinds of jobs.
Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Well, there’s a lot of things that we’re trying to work out and I
so appreciate your input and to, well, thank you more for the contributions you’ve made. It’s
been phenomenal to hear your stories. Is there anything else you have to add, beca―?
George Nagata: Right now, I can’t think. [they all laugh]
Wheeler: Well, I cannot thank you enough. It’s been absolutely delightful. Thank you again.
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
17
2023-05
�ALETHEA AND GEORGE NAGATA
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-11-16
GLOSSARY:
American Can (pg.10)
Bracero program (pg.12)
Camp Pendleton (pg.7)
Caterpillar (pg.11)
Cherimoya (pg.13-14)
Credit Bureau (pg.9)
Farm Bureau (pg.12)
Freezers (pg.10)
Grave, Mr. (pg.8)
Heinz (pg.2)
Irvine Ranch (pg.13)
Kiso (pg.7)
Kumamoto, Japan (pg.1)
Poston, Arizona (pg.5,7-8)
Rancho Santa Margarita (pg.7)
Santa Fe Train Depot (pg.5)
Smucker’s (pg.10)
Tarbutton (pg.8)
Tasuke, Wor (pg.2)
Tohanga, California (pg.7)
Yaskochi, Kane (pg.2)
W. H. Ruth Company (pg.10)
Transcribed by
Melissa Martin
18
2023-05
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Transcripts
Description
An account of the resource
Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Nagata, George and Alethea. Interview transcript, November 16, 2022.
Description
An account of the resource
Oral History of 2nd generation (George and Alethea Nagata) who represent four generations of Japanese Americans contributing to the agricultural industry of North County San Diego, California. During their interview the Nagatas discuss their family history, their forced internments at Poston Relocation Center in Yuma, Arizona during World War II, their lives post-internment, and their working lives as agricultural laborers and family farmers. The Nagatas discuss their operations in detail and muse on the future of farming in the United States.
This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Alethea Nagata
George Nagata
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lucy Wheeler
Melissa Martin
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-16
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agricultural laborers -- California
Agricultural laborers -- Colorado
Family farms -- California
Japanese Americans
Japanese Americans -- Forced removal and internment, 1942-1945
Poston Relocation Center (Ariz.)
World War, 1939-1945 -- Concentration camps -- Arizona -- Yuma
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Colorado
Southern California
Yuma (Ariz.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Alethea and George Nagata
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives@csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NagataGeorgeandAlethea_WheelerLucy_transcript.pdf
Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Ayana Ford
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jake Northington
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NorthingtonJake_FordAyana_2021-04-06.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Northington, Jake. Interview April 6th, 2021 SC027-01 1:52:01 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Black Student Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm Artists, Black California State University San Marcos. Black Student Center California State University San Marcos -- Students East Saint Louis (Ill.) Portrait photography San Marcos (Calif.) Student success Jake Northington Ayana Ford moving image NorthingtonJake_FordAyana_2021-04-06.mp4 2.0:|27(6)|51(13)|76(8)|102(13)|128(10)|156(9)|186(3)|216(4)|252(6)|282(14)|307(14)|335(10)|359(13)|385(12)|411(16)|436(4)|468(4)|492(8)|521(10)|547(15)|576(16)|602(4)|635(8)|662(7)|690(14)|716(9)|742(11)|766(13)|799(17)|828(4)|854(8)|882(8)|914(13)|942(10)|967(4)|1000(8)|1025(4)|1051(11)|1076(12)|1101(13)|1124(11)|1153(8)|1181(14)|1209(13)|1241(8)|1267(5)|1297(9)|1326(11)|1360(4)|1383(13)|1410(15)|1439(17)|1465(4)|1491(17)|1525(5)|1556(5) Undefined 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/82266c0c7756087444ebd53d3f362a8c.mp4 Other video English 0 Interview Introduction Interview with Jake Northington, April 6, 2021. Conducted by Ayana Ford over Zoom. Interview conducted as part of the Black Student Center Oral History Project. Interview contains some technical difficulties with disrupted internet connections and lagging. 0 29 Childhood and Northington's understanding of Blackness Northington discusses his childhood in East Saint Louis, Illinois, moving around a lot, and how his childhood in East Saint Louis informed his understanding of his Blackness. 0 276 Impact of Black activism Northington discusses how he has been impacted by Black social justice movements. Northington also reflects on how his community in East Saint Louis empowered him. 0 577 Moving to San Marcos, California Northington recalls how he ended up going to school at CSUSM, which he attended after a stint in the military as a Marine. Northington discusses how being in the Marine Corps prepared him for being in environments where Black people were not often represented. Northington also discusses his first impression of campus. 0 893 Involvement with creation of the Black Student Center Northington recalls how he became involved with the Black Student Center, and how he was familiarized with Black population on campus before he was a student. Northington discusses some of the advocacy that went into creating the BSC, and how he participated. 0 1023 Activities and connection to Black students on campus Northington discusses his membership with the BSU, and other projects and organizations that he and other students were involved with on campus. 0 1429 Needs of students, staff, and faculty involved in Black Student Center creation Northington discusses the needs of Black students on campus at the time that the Black Student Center's push for advocacy was happening. Northington discusses the police killings of Black Americans in the mid-2010s and the feelings of CSUSM's Black students at that time. 0 1585 Opposition to Black Student Center's creation Northington discusses the feelings of CSUSM students, staff, and faculty that were opposed to the Black Student Center's creation. Northington recalls micro and macroaggressions and racialized incidents, as well as the university's responses. 0 1919 Grand opening of the Black Student Center Northington recalls his participation in the creation of the physical space, and how the art and decor of the Black Student Center helps facilitate community and student success. 0 2293 Early focus of the Black Student Center Northington describes the early focuses of the Black Student Center, including the initiative to get Black students, staff, and faculty aware of and using the center ; recruitment of Black students to attend CSUSM ; and the center's participation in efforts to lead to student success. 0 2686 Impact of the Black Student Center Northington discusses the impact of the Black Student Center in building community and facilitating student success, both in terms of the larger campus community and in terms of his own success in academia. 0 3127 Future expectations for the Black Student Center Northington outlines his expectations for the Black Student Center, including programming, a larger footprint with San Diego County's Black Community, the creation of a robust Black alumni network, in the works at the time of Northington's interview, the expansion of the space, a graduate assistanceship, 0 3437 Leaders of the movement for the Black Student Center Northington recalls the impact of individuals involved with the effort to advocate for and implement the Black Student Center, including Tiffaney Boyd, Jamaéla Johnson, and Akilah Green, who worked in capacities in student government and the Black Student Union. 0 3568 Involvement in programming Northington discusses his involvement in the Black Student Center's events, as well as events and programs put on by or in collaboration with the Black Student Center. 0 3843 Mission(s) of the Black Student Center Northington ruminates on the mission of the Black Student Center and whether it has changed. Northington also discusses the need to have more Black staff and faculty hired on campus, and to retain Black CSUSM graduates as employees. 0 4042 Campus outreach to the Black community Northington discusses the importance of outreach by various campus departments to the Black community, especially by promotion of events. 0 4134 Perception of Black students on campus Northington discusses how Black students are perceived on campus and his view on the work that President Ellen Neufeldt has done to date. 0 4218 [technical difficulties] 0 4260 Photography of Black students on campus Northington discusses his photography and shows some of his work, as well as discusses the themes and thinking behind the portraits of Black students and staff that he took during his matriculation. 0 4922 Impact of archiving the Black Student Center's people and programs Northington expounds upon the importance of recording and preserving Black campus history, and how through the work of preserving and making accessible the past, student success in the future is enabled. 0 5184 Mentorship from Ariel Stevenson and Marilyn McWilliams Northington discusses the momentous impact of CSUSM employees Ariel Stevenson and Marilyn McWilliams, and how their support - especially but not limited to before the creation of the Black Student Center - has been so vital to Black students' success at CSUSM. 0 5301 CSU San Marcos educational experience Northington discusses his academic career at CSUSM, where he studied Visual and Performing Arts. Northington recalls how he discovered photography and learned the craft. 0 5595 Black Student Center's impact on campus employment Northington discusses the roadblocks that Black students can experience gaining employment on campus, and how the Black Student Center assists Black students in gaining employment and professional skillsets. 0 5867 Advocates for the creation of the Black Student Center Northington recalls more of the individuals that pushed for the creation of the Black Student Center, including students, staff, and administrators. 0 6009 Black Brotherhood, Black Sistahood, and support Northington recalls creating the Black Brotherhood student organization with Louis Adamsel, as well as the organization's purpose. Northington also discusses the creation of the Black Sistahood, a similar organization for Black women, and how the Black Student Center helped maintain these organizations once the students involved in their creation graduated. 0 6568 Role in the Black Student Center oral history project Northington discusses his direct role, including the genesis of the project, in the creation of the Black Student Center Oral History Project. Northington also discusses the involvement of John Rawlins III, former director of the Black Student Center, and Sean Visintainer, Head of University Library Special Collections. Northington outlines the process of the project and his pride in the project. 0 Jake Northington is a California State University San Marcos alumni. He graduated with his degree in Photography in 2019. Jake worked in the Black Student Center and created photography that hangs in the Center. In this interview, Jake discusses his childhood growing up in East St. Louis, Illinois, how and when he came to CSUSM in 2016, and his involvement with the creation of the Black Student Center. Ayana Ford: Today is April 6th, 2021, at one-o-eight PM. I am Ayana Ford. I'm a student at Cal State San Marcos, and today I am interviewing Jake Northington for the Black Student Center Oral History Project, a collaboration between the CSUSM Black Student Center and CSUSM University Special Archives (Special Collections). Mr. Northington, thank you for being with me today. I’d like to start by talking about your childhood. When and where were you born? Jake Northington: Oh, I was born in Illinois. I'm from East St. Louis, Illinois. That's where I grew up. And I moved around a lot as a child. I was adopted quite a few times and that allowed me to stay in a lot of cities. A lot of States, I went to quite a few elementary, middle schools, high schools. I went to four or five different high schools and I kind of moved around a lot, so, and ended up here in California. Ayana Ford: Wow. So that actually brings us to, our next question. How did you come to understand Blackness? Because I know by moving around to different places that would change your understanding. Jake Northington: Well, the city I'm from is 97% Black, and it's been that way for hundreds of years. So East St. Louis is in Illinois. Most people have never been there. And then people have heard of St. Louis, Missouri. Well both sides of the city is divided by the Mississippi River. And East St. Louis was a town established by Black people and it's been Black forever. And one of the major things that happened in that city was during the industrial revolution, like you've got a big race riot that happened in about 1918 that decimated the city, the East side of the city. And it's been decimated like that since then. And many of those places and the industries that were burned down are still burned down today. So even when I grew up, a lot of those places was still burned down and dilapidated just, it stayed like that for so many years and it's been a place of poverty, but within that ninety-seven plus percent of the population is Black. So growing up, I got to see Black people drive cars, be the principals, be police officers, drive the city bus, you know, they're driving Greyhound buses. They were mayors, city council people and all of these things that even the person delivering the mail – the person delivering to the doors and all of the shops, it's just a big group of Blackness. And I got to see Blackness from all different levels of economics and education. So I'm in an area where I get to see Black people from economically the lowest level and economically a higher level. So being able to see Black people among those different class groups and those different educational groups, it allows you to see people for who they are. When you can only see another group of people living wealthy and rich, it could kind of skew your view of that entire group. So, because I grew up in an area like that, I didn't get a skewed view of my own people. Ayana Ford: So do you feel like that helped you become more comfortable with yourself as a whole? Jake Northington: I was never uncomfortable. I would answer it that way. So I never had to get to a point to become comfortable being Black. My teachers are Black. So when I grew up, there was no such thing as being the only Black kid in class that wasn't a part of my upbringing. Everybody in class was Black ; teachers, middle, the principal, everybody, the Superintendents. So that wasn't an issue growing up so that every Black person there is practicing Black culture. The food, the music, the art, the corporations, the festivals, everything that's happening in a park, every holiday that we celebrate, everything was full. And so these are not things I had to pick up later in life or learn later in life. Ayana Ford: So how has the Black social justice and activism such as a civil rights movement, feminism, the Natural Hair Movement and the Black Lives Matter protest affected you? Jake Northington: Oh, well, so the civil rights movement definitely affected us. But in a way that's a little different for me because I--you got a lot of integration. You got a lot of Black people in areas they weren't, they were not allowed to before. You started to see, maybe an area of homes where you'll now have a few more Black families that never existed before, or you'll start to see Black people being allowed in certain malls or restaurants. Those things start to become a lot more commonplace, but growing up in East St. Louis, that doesn't matter. That didn't change. So you could--the people there were concentrated. So we didn't get to see all these different races of people and other cultures. We got to sit together, build together, fail, and grow together and go through all of the tribulations of life together. And you could get your answers from your own group of people. You could get--you know, you may get chastised, you may get corrected, you may be taught to do this, taught to do that. And it gives you an influx of empowerment. Like if I reach out and I want to know like, Ooh, what happened with Black people 50 years ago? I don't have to go to the local library and read it. I could find someone 70 or 80 years old that I can just talk to or ask what did Black people go through during the civil rights? These people are right here in front of me every day, they went through the civil rights. I don't have to go to a library or a com(puter) or something like that. And I think that's what people who grew up outside of a Black city, they may have to do some of those things. Well, I did not. So the civil rights effect on me didn't come with a lot of integration. The civil rights effect on other people, they may have been forced those to go into a lot of integration. And with that integration, they could have lost some sense of culture or some of the things that I was afforded to have, growing up in a predominantly Black city, going to a Black middle school, elementary, high school and things like that. So, the civil rights movement, you know, it had an effect as far as activism. Being at a Black school, we always celebrated Black History Month. Like throughout the year, we did things such as we had to give book reports or oral reports on every single Black person in history. And most of the time, these were all the Black people during the civil rights movement. So all eighteen or twenty of us, in second grade class, we'd all have to give out oral report and dress up as that person. So--and this is something I brought later to San Marcos as a student--and that's why I got that from. Being able to do that connected us to it. And it allowed us to see what we had gone through as a people, where we're currently at in East St. Louis, and then to kind of (technical difficulties) cast. That's what it allowed for me, that particular social movement. But then you get the, uh, the Black Panther Party movement, things like that. We got to see a lot of these people actively in the streets protecting other Black people. And some of these things were available in East St. Louis as well. So a lot of chapters that have Black Panther Party, some of those people came from Chicago and they will come down and then they would help protect or teach people different protective measures or teach more about history. And, that those two movements within my whole community, as far as people wanting to know more about history, people wanting to know what can they do actively in their community to correct some of the things that are issues in their community. So those two things had a great effect on my life and my upbringing. Now, when you get to some of the other movements, not as much, because I'm not actively involved in newer movements, but when as a kid, these other movements really had an effect on my mindset and give me a reason to look at Black people as a whole group of people and not just the people here on my street, the people in my school, the people in my city, you know, it allowed me to open my mind up to Black people on the planet. And having Black teachers all of through school before leaving, East St. Louis, having those Black teachers in all of this, this Black community as my baseline, once I left and going to these other cities, I was already, you know, in a strong understanding of who I am and come from. Ayana Ford: So, I imagine that's a big shift for coming to San Marcos. Did you come directly from (East St. Louis to) San Marcos? So, did you go straight to San Marcos after that? Or no? Jake Northington: I came here for work, so I completed my job. I was in the military after I completed my time in the military . It's right here. And you know, it was right down the street. It's like ten miles down the street, the military base (Camp Pendelton). So in this case, I wasn’t trying to move again with so, so much moving going on early in my life. I wasn’t interested in continuing to move. So I just chose to apply to the school (Palomar College). It’s the only school I applied to. Ayana Ford: Really. So was it--so you said you came, so you came from the military, so it was, it wasn't a really big shift coming from the military to the San Marcos meaning, culturally, or was it an easy shift because you got to be around a bunch of different cultures? Jake Northington: Yeah. So, I would say, no, it wasn't a difficult shift because even in the military, you're around every state and multiple countries. A lot of people from other countries joined the military to get citizenship and stuff like that. Even within the military, you're getting half of the states. At one job, half of the states are covered with people from different states. And I was in the Marine Corps specifically. There's not a lot of Black people in the Marine Corps. Most of the Marine Corps is non-Black so we already around other people and dealing with other peoples’ culture and stuff like that. And then prior to joining the military, I had already lived in Dallas, Texas, and I lived in Chicago. I lived in a bunch of other cities. So I was engaged in (technical difficulties) privy to being in the first university I went to. I went to college right out of high school and didn't work out too well, so I wasn't prepared for college in a way that I needed to be. That's kind of how it happened from the city I come from. It really doesn't prepare you for college. A lot of the effects of the, what is that called? They put a thing out in the eighties that was no child left behind policy. So it kind of turned all of our testing into multiple choice. And that was no more fill in the blank (unclear) of measure. So it was just pass or fail and they were just trying to pass everybody. So a lot of people were not prepared mathematically, through English, or through science and reasoning to even walk into college. It did a lot of us that disservice. So I had to take a little bit of a U-turn in order to come into the university and be successful. And that U-turn was the military. And that's what brought me to California. And then after the military, this school's right here. So that's why I chose San Marcos. There's no special reason (otherwise). Ayana Ford: So this--you think this, this U-turn helped you prepare for your coming to San Marcos with everything going around with so many different cultures that are entering the military? Jake Northington: Well, I mean, again, I had already faced it before the military, ‘cause I'd already been in universities and I'd already live in other cities. So I was already prepared even before joining the military. That's why I had no issues. So it's just a repetitive understanding that all of this is not East St. Louis. And everything I learned in East St. Louis, it doesn't necessarily show up everywhere, you know, it became more disheartening. So it wasn't a shock. It was more disheartening that outside of East St. Louis, I didn't go to a lot of places where they had a large congregation of Black people living at home, going to work, having all of these big family events and things like this. So that was more disheartening. I wouldn't call it a culture shock because this is still America. So I know I still live in the United States. So (laughs). Ayana Ford: So what was your first impression of San Marcos as a Black student? What was your first impression? Jake Northington: (unclear) That I didn't see any other Black students. The first impression was where are all the Black students at? Like, where are my people at? And now you walk around on a regular basis, every day you may see eight Black people. If you're on campus for four or five hours, you might see eight black people. And half of those are faculty and staff. So almost never saw the Black students, especially in my, uh, my study. I was in Visual and Performing Arts. And I think the entire time I only saw one other Black student in my class. Ayana Ford: Oh my goodness. So, can you, what, where did the student--(technological difficulties)--Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. So you were, you were, were you at the (unclear), grand opening, Black Student Center’s grand opening? Jake Northington: Yes. Ayana Ford: So you got to see it come to be. How do you think that it impacted your involvement on campus? Being able to see this come to be? Jake Northington: Well, I already knew it was happening because I was a part of the, some of the other students who were working to make it come about. So before I got to the school, I was already coming here and being active because the first school I went to here was Palomar. So I went to Palomar College, which is the junior college across the street from the school. So I was already going to Palomar College. And while at Palomar College, I would come to San Marcos or some of the events and, you know, they put out a lot of different events that they were doing, and I would come to some of them, during kind of the U-hour (University Hour, noon to 1 pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays, a time devoted to student mingling and interaction) on campus. So I was able to witness some of these things, and then there were groups of students trying to start the process of getting a Black Student Center. So these people were already doing this. And I'm quite sure this has been tried before as well, but this time it became successful. So I'm sure that's not the only time the Black student body asks for a place like this, but it was just the right group of students this time. And that was the very excellent Black students. They pushed it and they put all the measures in place. And then I just got involved immediately because when I got to the campus and said where all the Black students, I got involved immediately, I saw a couple of Black students that were out here really active and trying to make things happen. And I'm a person like that. So I just attached myself to some of those people and did what I could with this entire project. So I was along the lines of the project and I kind of added here and there wherever I could. And that was, uh, that was just a good group of students that were pushing to get their center. And I just happened to be one of them. Ayana Ford: So to backtrack, were you in-- Jake Northington: So I know I, (technical difficulties). Say what? Ayana Ford: Oh, I'm sorry. You cut off. Jake Northington: Oh, okay. Ayana Ford: To backtrack: so were you, were you in any activities or anything that got you to be able to connect with more Black students on campus? Jake Northington: Yes, because when I first got here and I said, where were all the Black students immediately, I would stop people and be like, Hey, where's the BSU (Black Student Union) meetings held at where's this where's that, you know, you have to have a BSU! I mean, you got more than 10 Black students. You got to have a BSU. I would think, you know, so I found the people going to the meetings. I became a member immediately, you know, I started paying my dues. I went to every meeting and then I just kept asking for more. So I don't like things the way they are just because, you know, I think we deserved more than what we were getting. And then a few students felt the same. And then we decided to keep pushing for more, you know, every one of us has a part to play. So while some people wanted to operate, you know, the BSU, some people want to operate, like they had a Black Christian Ministries. Some people went other ways and then everybody has a part to play, to keep growing the Black community on campus. I wanted to find out things I could help do to grow the Black community on campus. And then this avenue of having a Black Student Center became one of them. So I just jumped in right into that and got involved. And that's what kind of segued me. So getting involved in the BSU segued to getting involved in this Black Student Center project. Ayana Ford: So, what do you think the role of the Black Student Center, Union was played with the Black Student Union (Center)? Like how did you, how did, what was your, did you have like a administrative role or were you just a student? Jake Northington: As far as the Black Student Center? Ayana Ford: Union. Jake Northington: Union? Oh, the Black Student Union, I was just a member. And then at one point I did run for one position. I didn't win it though. Somebody beat me out, but I did run for one position in one semester. But other than that, I was pretty active. I helped design some of the logos that they had for merchandise, I helped set up and break down events, things like that. So I was never an official officer, but I did the same thing many other students did, you know, so I didn't do anything special, but I just gave all the support I could. Showed up to every event I could and helped set up and helped put on some of the events, you know, just like everyone else. But then the activism within the Black Student Center project, this is when it started to kick up a little more, because I did other things on campus. I was a part of the College is 4 Me seminar at that time for the high school students trying to come to college. I was able to speak on some of those panels and then this led to other opportunities. So then I started to get selected to be involved in other occasions. So then I started to go to ASI (Associated Students Incorporated) meetings on the regular. Every week I would go to ASI meetings, take notes, say whatever I needed to say and try to transfer some of the things that the Black students were asking for in BSU meetings and try to bring some of those things and present them ASI meetings. If I could. And also sometimes those things happen and then them extended meetings. And just any meeting I saw happening on campus--they used to do a check-in with the vice president. They used to, they had all these open forums, I would go to everything. So that's the way I started and supplanted myself, as far as trying to help create some change and just attach myself with groups that were creating change, or sometimes create our own group to create some change. So then when, you know, as we got further and further along with Black Student Center, these other students were doing their part to start the resolution (for the creation of the BSC). And then I was just one of the students that came along to make sure we spoke up in support of it during some of those ASI meetings. And once it got voted on and it all got agreed to, then we had to have students to work there. And we also had to have people come interview for the position to be the director. So along those lines, I became even more involved. So I was selected to be one of the eight people to sit down and have luncheons with the candidates for the position. So I was able to do that. And we were, you know, in a conference room and we had to do some little, like just a little enclosed meeting and luncheon and kinda see what each person was standing and what they offered. And then I went to every one of the people's presentations to be the next candidate. And then I kept doing that with other positions as well that were around the campus. So that was another part I played. Also, we all sat down as a Black Student Center--as a Black Student Union, a lot of us sat down to come up with the name of the Black Student Center. So there's many names thrown out there. So in that it's called the Black Student Center, I helped vote for that too. You know, some students voted for that and I was just one of those, some students voted for different names, and this is a name that everybody kind of agreed to settle on. We also had to put in evaluation sheets for the presentations we liked the best from the different candidates. So I was able to do that as a student and able to do that as one of the eight people selected to be on the little small group panel. And I was the only student on that (panel). Everybody else was a staff member, but I was the only student. So then from that, I got hired. So I was one of the first people to get hired into the Black Student Center. And I was hired there. And then I actually designed the logo that they still use today. You know, I'm happy they still use it, but I'm like, it's been a couple of years. I was surprised they haven't gotten somebody to change it, but that's nice that every time I see it, I just remember. I did that and they--there's been like a lot of merchandise and just, you know, lapel pins, t-shirts and the space. All of the photos for the first two or three years, I took them all. So at that grand opening, all of the photos of the grand opening, a lot of those things you see as for a lot of the activities from the first couple of years, different video clips and stuff like that, you know, a larger majority of those things I did. There was a few other people that took pictures and videos, but the large majority of it, I did. That was one--that was my position when I worked in the Center, I did a lot of media and a lot of archiving. Ayana Ford: Wow. So what did you think that the student, staff and (faculty) involved in the creation of the Black Student Center felt like they needed? While you were in the meetings? Jake Northington: Well, one is we needed a space that was our own. That's just number one. I would think all groups need a space that's their own when you're coming into a university system. Because we're going to be here for awhile. You're going to come to class, you're going to be here for six, eight hours a day. Some people are spending ten to twelve hours like me. I was one of those students that was on campus ten to twelve hours a day. You are a student who works on campus. So now you're taking your classes and your work here. You have to have some level of comfort and security. And then all of these things occurred during the height of a lot of shootings and murders of Black people that we all were able to witness over the course of these same years. So we're talking about the center opening in 2017, but this comes off the backs of the Sandra Bland murder, the Trayvon Martin murder that Tamir Rice murder, the Mike Brown murder all the way back to back to back, leading up to right before we got a space. So all the anxiety was constantly building amongst Black people, just in the country and you know around the planet. So with that high level of anxiety, a lot of Black students just felt a little more uncomfortable or insecure being on a college campus, that maybe they didn't feel as much support as they had once said they needed. So, having the space is something people asked for, because now we can have programs specifically for Black people that didn't exist prior, we could create support groups. We could have fellow mentoring from other Black students to Black students or Black faculty to Black students. We could have a hub or a home on campus where we could just relax and take all the stresses of being a Black college student or just a Black citizen in the country. So it becomes a place of that. So you get a little, a piece, a little home feeling, and a reinvigoration of why you're here. (technical difficulties) Ayana Ford: Can you hear me? Jake Northington: Yeah. Yeah. Ayana Ford: I'm sorry. You cut off again. I'm so sorry. So did you feel in the beginning, did you feel any pushback for the creation of Black Student Center in the upper--from people above? Jake Northington: Oh yeah. There's tons of it. I got it all printed out. People physically looked at us and gave us nasty looks walking around. This is faculty, staff, and students. Would physically look at us in a way of like, You don't belong here. So, before the center open Black people will be walking around sporadically, going to classes or something like that. And we were not grouped up as much. The only time you would maybe see a group of Black students is on the way to the BSU meeting on the, on the way back from the BSU meeting. And that may be the only times you can see groups. Once we get a Black Student Center, it's now a constant that everybody on campus is now constantly able to view, look at these groups of Black students right here around the center of campus at the USU (University Student Union). So this was a new thing for the campus. So we started to get nasty looks. We got a lot of students disagreeing with us having a space. We got people saying that, Where's the white student center? We had a few people even saying, I want my student fees back from you, (technical difficulties) my student fees going to the Black Student Center. Some people said that the Black Student Center is separation and segregation. All of these things were placed on the school's website, the school's Facebook page, the school's Instagram page. And, you know, the school had to do their job of correcting some of these things. But this was the feel of a lot of students, faculty, and staff, and some of them voiced these things. So we did get a lot of backlash. Ayana Ford: Do you feel like the school did a good job on responding to that, to the backlash that you guys received? Jake Northington: Ah, I mean, I would say the school did what they could because, I mean, if somebody states in opinion like that, that they don't want their money going to this, that's not an offense. You didn't break the law. You didn't. I mean, so what could the school do besides, Okay, we don't enforce, or we don't support that type of rhetoric so we'll take it down. I mean, I would say the school did that much. That’s tough to take in that manner. People get to feel how they feel and state the things they state, as long as they don't go over a particular line of, of racializing things or something like that. I don't think there was much else the school could do as far as what people would write in posts. Now treatment received to students or any physical threats or something like that, now I would expect the campus to do a little bit more. But just people giving nasty looks, I mean, we had students in the front and taking pictures, going, Look, it's a Black Student Center, wow, what is this? And they come make jokes. We had groups of students that would dare each other--groups of students who were not Black--they would dare each other to run in the Black Student Center and say something and run out. So that happened every week for probably the first semester, that entire first semester, second semester we were open. So it was a lot, it was a lot of little things like that. And people would come in and just try to crack a joke and, “I'm not Black, can I even stand in here” and then laugh and run out. Yeah. And that's again, disheartening, but that's not an actual rule that you broke. I mean, so what could we expect to happen? But it did expose the unaccepting behavior that a lot of people on campus had when it came towards Black people and Black students. So that behavior got exposed. So I would say that's a good thing. Even though it's a little bit of a struggle to go through it, but I would rather the truth come out. So, you know, people kind of get this from campus climate surveys, but we get to see it happen in real time. We get to see the actual discomfort or people saying, “No, I can't go in there.” But we didn't really see all of these things happening in the same manner with the other spaces! You know, you don't hear people saying, “Well, I don't belong to that racial group so I'm not going to walk in that space. I don't belong to this group. I'm not going to walk in that space. There’s a line I can't cross.” I didn't see these things. So if it happened, I don't know about it, but I didn't see these things. Well, we constantly got that. We had people that would walk up with their group of friends, one Black student, and then four or five other students. And they would walk up to the center and then everybody would stop right at the door and a Black student would keep walking in and turn around and go, “Hey, what are y'all doing? Y'all can come in here.” “Are you sure? Are we allowed in here?” And we had so much of that and it still happens now, but it happens rarely now. It was a common occurrence every day. So it took a while for accepting of having a Black Student Center. And that was from top to bottom. Ayana Ford: So on a more positive note. So you said you attended the Black Student Center’s grand opening? Jake Northington: Yes. Ayana Ford: How did it feel to actually go into the center for the first time? Jake Northington: (laughter) I had already been in the center for the first time months earlier. Remember, so I helped pick out some of the items that we put in there. I helped, you know, I selected all of the books that we chose. I actually went down to do the purchase of the bookshelf. Went out and picked the items that went on the wall with some of the art pieces. So I had already been in the center, months and months and months, many times before it opened. And then we had to do planning to actually have the grand opening. So of course I worked there, so I was a part of the planning process. So it wasn't like a shock and awe to me because I was a part of the planning process. But I do understand how much that meant to the whole campus. But again, I'm coming from a different perspective. I'm coming from a city. That's nice. This doesn't give me an aha or shock. For me, it was more of a, Okay, good. This is the first steppingstone for us. We needed to have this. And this is now something that can become a foundation. Like this space is always going to be here. Now let's continue to build some programs now that are going to help Black students on throughout the future. So that was more where my mindset was. Ayana Ford: Okay. To backtrack, how did the planning go? How'd you make those decisions on what needs to be put up and presented in the Black Student Center? Jake Northington: Well, I was--I just knew it had to be positive promotion of Black people, because all that's ever talked about in many of our classes is if they bring up the Black community, they're talking about slavery, they're talking about riots, they're talking about social upheaval and, or they're talking about sports. So, culturally we're not seeing a promotion, or any type of surrounding positive discussions with Black people, staff and faculty, students, anything, because everything we were mentioning, it includes the faculty and staff too. You know, they've been here for years and years. Some of them had been here two decades. Everything our Black students are facing just for two to four or five years, the faculty and staff has faced the entire time of their employment. So this includes them as well. I knew that everything that went up in here had to support the Black culture (technical difficulties)-- pick out. Hey, let's get some nice photos of Blackness in its most positive light. Let's get some photos of Black men, Black women, Black families, Black children. And then the books I selected were particular books of some of the most famous Black writers and scholars that--these are books that need to be read. I created this whole list. I went and talked to other people ; other people added to the list. So it was a collaborative effort to make these things happen. And then we took a few people with us and we walked around and we just picked out items out of certain stores, you know, we looked online. And it was like, yes, these things are necessary. So you know, we have a big painting of Marcus Garvey. We have a--there's just so many different things that was just necessary. So that's kinda what we thought about. We thought about the past. We thought about the faculty and staff. And then we thought about the current students and the students to come, what would work to unify it all. And it's an uplifting thing to view and to see when you walk in here. And we also had a lot of students that are born in Africa, but they moved from Africa and they now live here in the San Diego area. Some of these students even brought things from home to help decorate the space. So, and that was, you know, they did that on their own. And they came and asked, they said, Hey, can we donate this? So we can put some of these African pieces in the space. So everybody added to it so that wasn't, you know--it was a part of my job, but everybody added to it. Ayana Ford: Hmm. So how do you feel like the art and the decor of the Black Student Center helped the center? Like how do you feel like it impacted the feeling of the Center? Jake Northington: Oh, a little more edifying. You tend to feel a little more at home. You tend to feel a little more comfortable. You walk in and you feel the culture and you just--now you like being on campus. Like you don't just run from class and leave campus and never come back until your next class at 8am. It allowed students to hang around a little bit more, which allows them to now talk a little bit more, which now allows them to build more relationships. So these things were not happening before the Center. And then we can't just have it empty too. So now when you kind of decorate the area in culture, it just helps with all of these things. And then now you constantly have positive images and then positive literature and all of these different things to connect a Black person to go, “Wait a minute! This has been done before.” Because we had this big picture of Tulsa in 1921, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and it listed how many hospitals, how many banks, how many schools, how many restaurants, how many train and truck systems that existed through this picture of the people. And we had a picture like that of the Harlem Renaissance. And for Black students, faculty and staff, to walk in and see this, it reminds you again, Hey, look at what our people have done throughout the times. I'm here now in a university, it'll help you like motivate you a little bit more to push a little further, to do a little bit more. That's kind of how the artwork and the people kind of work together. And this is what makes it so much, so necessary to kind of culturally decorate the place. Ayana Ford: Hmm. Can you tell me a bit about the early focuses of the Black Student Center? Like the initiatives, programs, events, and focuses? Jake Northington: Yeah. So one of the main early focuses was, again, where all the Black people? So our main focus was we have to get the Black people in the center. So it didn't happen fast. So, you know, if you go to the school right now, it's like a regular thing. But it wasn't. And half of them worked there. So we had to promote the space. As far as this place is here! It exists. Come stop by. Let's go. If you're walking into the USU and you go stop and get a bagel and some coffee, take two more steps. Here's the center, you know, so students would come through and keep passing it and keep passing it and not think because the space was already there. It was just, it was a different room. So the room got rearranged. And then once they put up the sign and everything, it's--all of the spaces have a sign. It doesn't stand out. It's silver and black. All of the spaces have a sign. That's not going to point it out so much. So you kind of have to stop. So what we would do is we would stand in front of the, in front of the center! And kind of stand outside. And two or three of us are standing out there, like during our work hours and stop students, “Hey, hey, have you seen the Black Student Center? We just opened.” You know, we're doing this, we're doing this, we've got this program, this event coming up. And then we would, during U-hour, we would be out there and have a table and we would stop students. And keep telling us in class, other students that work there, they would make announcements in class. A big part was to get the students in the center. So we all had to keep stopping students and keep telling them. That was a daily thing. Hey, you need to tell at least five or ten people today about the space and keep telling, keep telling. So we kept going, kept going, kept going, kept going, and kept going. And then, the Black faculty and staff had a lot of help in that because they used to do like Black student welcomes. And it was a little smaller than it is now. Because now all of these entities get to (technical difficulties) and the Black faculty and staff would do like a Black student welcome. And then now you're able to put all these things together and now it made the welcome a little bigger. And now you have a place to bring the Black students to, and you're not just talking to them outside the building. So this all now started to bring more students in. And then during the orientations, we're now allowed to have a table at the orientations all during the summer. So now this helped with recruiting. So recruiting people to the space was number one. Number two we're trying to get in the school like as a student in the school, when now we got the students here, we need to get them in the space. We're all trying to recruit high school students to the school. So we will go around to the different high schools and speak to the different high schools. We also would go speak to the different community colleges in the San Diego area and let them know, Hey, San Marcos is a place to be. We have a Black Student Center as well. And that kind of helped bring in some of the Black students. So even while I worked there, I ended up seeing about eight Black students that I met at high school and recruited coming to San Marcos. So that was definitely a good feeling to see people that I spoke to when they were ninth to tenth grade and tried to, Hey, you just--you should, you should come to San Marcos. You know, we're building the Black culture there. You live here. Your parents are here. Bring in you in your parents and then them and their parents would show up to orientation. You talk to them again. And then they ended up making a decision to stay there. We actually got to directly affect and help Black students come to the campus. Without having a Black Student Center, we don't have as good a sell. So it's kind of helped improve Black students even applying to the school. Another thing was about grades. We need recidivism. We need to, we need to keep students here. So we know that freshman year is a big year for a lot of Black students. And we have a large amount of Black students that drop out in their freshman year, all throughout the CSU and UC systems. We need to impact that. We need to get those numbers down. We don't need people dropping out so much. So a part of this is there was a mentorship and that was a tutor program. And then the center connected with the tutoring center to try to help students and we let them come in here and give a, give a lot of presentations. And then maybe we can get some Black students working in the tutoring center and they do their hours here in our space. So that was an initiative that was pushed. And I was actually a tutor as well for some of the Black students. So now where these Black students may be uncomfortable or may not feel like they can get as much help from some professors or some other classmates or anything like that, they now were able to get that help in the Black Student Center. And then another thing was programming things. So getting students in there, recruiting students or recidivism and increasing people's GPA. And then, then we also got programming. And with that programming we're--we want to bring Black specific programming. That's going to increase students, graduating, going into higher education, learning more about their history, learning more about politics and society. And then what ways that they can maybe get through, past, and over traumas that are facing the whole Black community, what ways and what measures they can use moving forward. Ayana Ford: So do you think that's the main purpose of the center’s creation in your opinion? Jake Northington: For me? Yes, but I think other people would give different responses because I think everybody gets something different from the center. When you aim to do this, this, this, this, and this, and now each one of us can take what we need from the space. Like, Okay, I really need this. I really need that. I really need that. So if nothing else everybody loves it because it is a space for Black students. So if nothing else, I would think that would be the one thing everybody could say. Ayana Ford: Do you feel like that purpose should be--it's especially being accomplished now? Jake Northington: Yes, it definitely is. Yeah. Ayana Ford: I'm glad to hear. So what has been the impact that you see the Black Student Center is doing on the campus today? Jake Northington: It's bringing Black students and faculty together every day in an ongoing situation that never (technical difficulties) never was given a space, a space for Black faculty and students to operate together. So a lot of Black faculty would put on events. They would put on presentations ; they would give workshops and things like this. Well, now having a center, this could happen right here in the center. So now we have directly faculty and staff that are Black, giving presentations to Black students. So where we may not have as many Black teachers, all of us, all of the Black students now have an opportunity to have that back and forth in some of those mentorships. And getting some of those can, maybe they can get help with resume writing, maybe they can get help with mental health and counseling. So all of these things were able to happen now to have that space for the faculty and staff to kinda mix and mingle with the students in a professional setting to where we can make these things happen now. Some of those lacking areas that we have for Black students, those things were now able to get accomplished because we have a space to put these people in, in an everyday basis. So that was a lot tougher to do when you just have Black students walking around and then you, you may never cross paths. A lot of faculty and staff got to meet students they would never normally meet because we have a hub now – we have a home base. So I think that's one of the most important things that have happened. And so many students now are more engaging of each other. Where come from all the Black people speak to each other. I came out here It wasn't so much the same because people are more spread out and they may be not used to seeing so many Black people like that in one space. I actually heard that from many students from the Murrieta Riverside County area that came to San Marcos, most of them had the same response. “It was ten Black people at my high school,” stuff like that. Every day I was the only Black person in class. Well, now all of those students are here and they're sharing those same stories. And now they can kind of help each other out and help get through some of these things and talk about, you know, how that may have affected their identity, has affected their personality, or affected their self-esteem. So then we can address some of these things. I mean, that's just some of the things that have come about, since having a Black Student Center, Ayana Ford: How do you feel like the Black Student Center impacted you personally? Jake Northington: I mean, hey, I got a job (laughter). I wasn't--personally, it gave me a space to use some of my skills. I think that's how it impacted me the most. So I was able to practice my photography. I didn't take pictures before I came to school, but those things kind of happened at the same time. I started working at the Center like right at the same time. All of that kind of came together at once. So now I got to practice my photography and I've since put out a bunch of photobooks and I've done so many different photo projects on campus for the Black Student Center. And of course, archived all of those pictures. The twenty thousand photos I've taken over the course of a few years. It gave me time to practice my study. So my actual program is the Visual and Performing Arts with an emphasis in art and technology. Everything from class with my occupation and with going through different programs within the center. I was able to bring everything from the center and all of those became my projects for class, all of my homework projects, all of my midterm things I had to do in art classes. I got everything from the Black Student Center, even some of my sociology classes and papers I had to write. I was able to get all of my information I needed from the center. So then other students did the same thing as well. If I have a paper to write and I needed, and I need books to read, I go right to the center. And I got all these, these books to choose from, so I don't have stuff that already exists, or I need to interview students cause I'm doing my psych class, and I need to interview a couple of students, here they are right here in the center. I have to do these surveys for, for this class or that class. And I get to come out and hand out my surveys in the center. So many students were able to take advantage of those things, where they wouldn't be able to do before, because before I have to stand outside of the USU (University Student Union) and ask people to help me, Hey, would you like to take this survey for my class? Hey, would you like to? And that's what we were doing before I had to do that for one of my classes. Once we got the space, we could do it right here and get assistance with your projects, with homework, everything. And then we also were able to--I was so happy that I was able to help different students sign up for classes because so many students coming out of high school, don't look at college in the whole scope of: this is what I need to do freshman year, sophomore, junior, senior year. And I need to be transitioning into resume writing and application to grad school. All of those things don't necessarily hit our community in the same way it does for everybody else. We have to--and just me being able to help some of the students. I mean, I really enjoyed that cause you're able to go through an online process of signing up for classes. And now I could sit directly and talk to them through of, Hey, let's take two hard classes, two easy classes and one medium class and that'll be your five classes. Don't just put them all up here, you know? What they put out here for people to take is a skeleton to work off of. You don't necessarily have to just take these classes in a row like that because you're coming from a lower economic area, maybe from downtown San Diego, maybe they didn't concentrate so much in mathematics. So now you need to take a few math classes before you get to college math--then okay, that's fine! Now let's take that at a junior college or let's take one of the lower maths we can, online. Let's take this, this, this, or how about this? Some of us started to take classes together so we could help each other and not just be in a class by ourselves and not have anybody to bounce ideas off of, or ask for assistance with our homework. And now we can share a book. A lot of those things now we're able to happen because we had the space. And I was just so happy to be able to help other students because I didn't have a difficult time through school. I mean, I got all A’s and everything and a couple of B’s. That's all, that's what I had the whole time, San Marcos. So, you know, I didn't have a problem with class whatsoever, but I knew other people did so to be able to help people, and help them with papers and help them with getting their courses together, help them with any remediation they needed. And it's just to help your people. When that's your intent, it feels good to be able to do that. And I think a lot of people got that out of the center too. Not just me. Ayana Ford: What do you expect to see next for the Black Student Center? Jake Northington: Hmm. That five-year anniversary! That's what I expect to see next. But I mean, John (Rawlins III, Director of the Black Student Center) is doing such an amazing job, this guy needs a Nobel peace prize. It's just so much that that's happening. It's almost (unclear) so he does, he does a lot of work in collaboration with other (student identity and inclusion) centers. So, so much collaboration has happened. It seems like he has that down pat, but for the center itself, more programs! Like a wider touch in San Diego. We need to really get San Marcos on the map in the same level as San Diego State. You walk around anywhere in San Diego County, and everybody's heard of San Diego State. So it's an option. It's 13-year-olds that have heard of San Diego State, so it's an option. We need to make CSU San Marcos and option for Black students. So this means we have to do more promotion. We have to stretch out more to the middle schools and high schools and getting the word out. We have to do more collaboration and more efforts to do programming outside of the campus, or at least show ourselves outside of the campus and people need to know that there's a Black hub of people at Cal State San Marcos. So that's one thing that I would like to see that needs to happen. One thing that is in the works is the Black alumni chapter. I started everything rolling with that and it just pulling people in to be a part of it and everybody can play whatever role they choose. So to have a Black alumni network. Now we have something for our graduates to fill a need. “I'm looking for employment. I am looking to go to grad school, I'm looking to get a PhD. I'm looking to relocate.” Whatever, we need an alumni network to help with that. So for us to not have our own alumni network would do us a disservice. Just continuing to build that Black network up at San Marcos. So I paid my alumni dudes. I'm full alumni, lifetime membership. Now I'm going to help support in any type of way I can. So, let me see what else? I would like to see us have a bigger space. As our student population is growing, we need a bigger space. These were, this was a very small room, and they knocked the wall down to try to open it up a little bit. This was a very small prayer room before it became the Black student center. It needs to be bigger space. I think they (other student centers on campus) had more of an intention of this is going to be a space for this particular thing. They're a little more wide open and they have a little more space. But when it came to the Black Student Center, there was not a designated area. So they had to find a space and kinda adjust the space to give to us, but it was just a smaller space. Well, the Black student population is growing. We also need the space to be used by Black faculty and staff. I would like to see us get a bigger space, much bigger space, at least three times. It's entirely too small. I would like to see the center get a graduate assistantship. So like the rest of the spaces have, there should be a graduate assistantship at the space and also a user space for, I would like to see more archives. And that's the whole point of this project. That's why I--I mean, I don't know if they told you, but this was my idea. I came up with this idea to add this project. After I was involved in another project I did where I got interviewed and I was like, you know what? It would be great if we can do this for the center, because this can't be lost. All of these things that so many, so many Black students that came here did--maybe even the Black students way before us. And then some of their names get lost and they don't get mentioned. We have to recognize all of the Black people that made the effort to get us this space because this space is a foundation now. And while we have the time and it's only been a couple of years, let's get that story told, let's put it out there, let's set the foundation and let's keep building the archives of the space. So I would like all the Black students, faculty and staff involved to be a part of this. This is something to look back to, like this was done, this was established, and we all came together to make this happen. So that does a lot of great work as far as inspiration. If you get a Black student as a freshman coming into the school and they see this was done by Black students, faculty and staff came together to make this happen. And it was just this recent, you know, three, four years ago. I mean that does, that does a good job for inspiration. And you get to actually talk to the people who help make this happen? That does a good deal of inspiring students to want to be active. And the more active you are as a student, the more likely you're going to stay in school, more likely we're going to graduate. So we want this to just keep cycling through and keep building and keep building. Those are some of my thoughts as far as moving forward with the center. Ayana Ford: To backtrack on what you said, do you know, do you have any connection with the different leaders in this project and their contribution to the Black Student Center? Jake Northington: Oh, oh you want to hear some names? Ayana Ford: Yeah. Jake Northington: Oh, okay. Well, (Tiffaney Boyd) the ASI (Associated Students Incorporated) president and she was also, think she was president or vice president of BSU (Black Student Union) at one point. So she's definitely--I mean, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't have the center. Like we have some major names and, and, so her. Jamaéla Johnson, she was also an officer, maybe vice president or president of the BSU at a point. They all kind of, you know, took turns being the president. Everybody was the president at different times. And she was also at ASI. Then we have Akilah Green who was (unclear) one point. And she was also an ASI. So you had these three Black women at ASI during all of--they did most of the legwork, as far as the paperwork, the resolution, the promotion of it, bringing this information to the BSU, letting us know what's going on, the ins and outs of all of the meetings. Because I, you know, me as a student and other students, we could go to some meetings, but we were not going all of the meetings. You know? So as an ASI member, they were there for like every meeting and they had other meetings with administration and stuff like that. That we were not going to. So they would say, Wait this is the process, this is what's happening. Now. This is what's happening. Now, this is what the student body can do. This, this, this, and this. And then they also established partnerships with other people outside of the Black community on campus that helps support this resolution. So, without those three we wouldn't have this space. I hope their picture goes up in the center. That's one of the things I pushed for from day one, day one when the center opened and I hope this eventually happens: their picture and their name should go up as far as these are the most significant people, Black students (in the process of getting the Center), they should be mentioned. Ayana Ford: Speaking of programs, by the way, you had mentioned earlier, have you been involved in making any programs specifically? Jake Northington: Yeah, I was more events. More events. Some of the programming has been more collaborative. It wasn't just a simple thing. And most of the programs are mimicking other programs, because these are programs that need to exist in all of the centers. So like a mentorship program, we made one for us. Or the tutoring program. Again, that's something that's needed everywhere. Or you know, we--some of the ideas I came up with was, Hey, we need somebody to come speak about this. We need somebody to come speak about this. We need somebody to speak about this. So things we couldn't get people to speak about, like maybe historical context things, or certain things as far as how, how we're affected by different weather patterns, anything, whatever you want to think of. Art, Black art, or Black music, any not really a specific major for somebody to speak about, maybe not. I started to create PowerPoint presentations and create classes and go do the research myself. And then I would give some of these classes in the Black Student Center to different faculty and staff and students. And different people would come in and I would give the class right here on the big screen in the center. And you know, that was something I was able to do, so I did quite a few of those. So as an individual, I did some of those things, but everything else was pretty much a collaborative work. So Black Panthers, of the Black Panther Party. People that still kind of live in the San Diego region that maybe worked in Oakland or worked in the San Diego, L.A. region, when they were teenagers operating in the Black Panther Party, those people came to speak. Creating events such as Black Women's Appreciation. So that was, that was another event that I had a lot of hand into. I was like, We should do this. Like we should appreciate all the Black faculty and staff. So we need to make an event for Black faculty and staff, and then for the women, and kind of gave out and created our own letters of recommendation or a letter of appreciation that was handed out to all of the people. And then, and of course I was there taking pictures. So it was more about all of us sitting together at the table and kind of tossing out ideas. Everybody kind of played a different hand in that. And then the ideas that made sense, we got together and move forward. Ideas that maybe didn't make so much sense, we kind of held it on for later. So that's kind of the process of how that worked. Ayana Ford: You also mentioned taking photographs at the events and such. So how do you think that impacted the people around at the Black Student Center? Seeing themselves? Jake Northington: That's, again, that's such a great impact because as of right now, there's a huge picture in the center right now covering one of the walls. And it's a picture I took of one of the Black students that graduated. And it's just--it may be the biggest impact. Because as we know, just visibility, you know, positive promotion and propaganda of Black students, when you go on that website for any (unclear) that pop up, almost are never Black. You know, when you walk through the halls and you see the pictures on the walls, they're just, you may not ever see a Black person. When you just walk around campus, it just may never happen. So, you don't feel as invested or as included in your own campus. So to see yourself in these photos, to see yourself on the wall, it just really emboldens people to want to be here, to love the choice that they made for being at that school. And it just helps them enjoy school a lot more. I saw so many eyes light up or when I would take pictures at the event, I would make a slideshow and then it would be up on the screen, just rotating all day. When people walked in, they would eat lunch or hang out or do a little homework or whatever they did, and it would just rotate. And then on the regular, right after the event, two or three days later, everybody's in the center, like, Where's the photo, where's the photos? And then they're looking through and everybody's pointing and laughing and go, Oh, remember this, remember this? It just keeps adding to the enjoyment and experience of just being there and being on the campus. I mean, I really love (unclear). I think it just, it just, it helps in a way that you can't even measure. So to have pictures of yourself, enjoying college with other Black students here, it's immeasurable. Ayana Ford: Are there any other questions I should have asked that I did not? Jake Northington: (laughs) Let me see. Maybe, I don't know. What are we doing now? Are we actively doing the things to continue with the mission statement? Has the mission statement changed? Are we, are we on the mission right now? Do we have a new mission now, now that it's been three-plus years? Ayana Ford: Hmm. So what do you think? What's the new mission-- Jake Northington: Or something like that. Ayana Ford: So what do you think-- Jake Northington: I think the same mission. Yeah. I think the same mission should continue. And I think there is a new mission though. So a new mission would be to get more Black people hired as staff and faculty on campus. Being a student there over the years, a lot of the Black students that graduated, they're gone, that's it. You don't see them again. We don't get a lot of Black students hired now back into the campus. But I do see this from other groups. And then I see this across all other campuses and colleges, universities. We need to get a push for our Black graduates to be rehired back into their alma mater of CSU San Marcos. I think that needs to happen. The school is getting bigger. So since I left, they built a couple more dorms. They built like the dining facility. They built quite a few more ; the Extended Learning Building, think they're going to build another parking structure. So as these things continue to increase so should our Black faculty and staff and student population. I'd like to see a push to get the campus more involved in making those things happen, because that shouldn't be a job just put on us. The campus should be involved in the recruitment of Black students and the hiring of more Black faculty and staff. We don't need to be an exchange situation where, okay, we lost three Black faculty members. We're going to go hire two. It shouldn't be happening like that. We should be expansively growing as--as while the campus is growing. So that definitely needs to happen. And I’d like to see a lot more support from the campus, as far as the other students go, and other faculty. Black Student Center events–we should be able to look around and see a sea of people that are not Black. We should see the support of everybody who professes to support all students. Then you can reflect your support by showing up. So we have a few people from the Dean of Students, we got a few people from the other centers that have been consistently supporting the Black Student Center the whole time, but we don't see a grand amount. We don't see large amounts. To have 17,000 plus people on campus, we should see some of that when there was a Black Student Center event, just like it is when there's an event for another center or event for another space or event for somewhere else. That same support of showing up. I'd like to see that happen moving forward. And that should be a point of emphasis because that's only going to keep growing us even at a higher rate. Ayana Ford: So how do you think that the campus can reach out some more? You had mentioned before through middle schools and high schools. So you have any other ideas of how they can reach out more to Black students? Jake Northington: Yes. The Office of Communications could do a (technical difficulties). I think that has changed now. When I was there, I didn't see it, see it as much, but I still get the emails. I see it a little bit more right now, so that's good. And they can keep pushing the events. As the Black Student Center or the Black Student Union, or other Black clubs and organizations that are putting on events, the Office of Communications can do a great job with supporting those events by promoting them on all the digital signages and all the flyers. ASI could do a better job of supporting, the USU could do a better job. So just support us by promoting our events when we put them out there. Great help. Instead, Black students having to go person to person to try to get somebody to show up to the Black Student Center events. And that's a struggle that not every other group has specifically. Some people may, some people may not, but that really hinders the Black Student Center’s effect--as far as it could have a greater effect if we got more people. Everybody has to help us with that. That's not a burden that should just be put on the Black students. And also we need to work on lowering that, those parking passes (Ford and Northington laugh). That’s always a fight. Ayana Ford: It really is. So over the years, you've seen over the years have you seen a giant shift the way Black students are seen on San Marcos campus, through the Black Student Center? Jake Northington: I wouldn't say giant shift. I can't really speak to that because everything that we were facing on the campus, we pretty much still face. So I don't know if I can answer that question. I've been away from the campus for like over a year now. I can’t really answer that. But while I was there, it was the same wall in front of us the whole time I was there. So once I left, I don't know how much that has changed. So the, like the comfort level of people, the hesitance to help or support, or the hesitation to be around us as much. And I can't speak to how much that's changed. I know some people in some areas have gotten a little more comfortable, but as an overall campus, I don't know about that. I dunno. I have though--I mean, the new president seems like she's doing a good job and it seems like it's on track for that to happen, so I would say I would put it that way. It seems like they're on the track, on the right track. Ayana Ford: (technical difficulties, interview stopped recording) So, do you, are you able to see the record button now? Jake Northington: Nope. But if you’re-- Ayana Ford: It's saying recording on my side. Do you see? Jake Northington: This recording? I hope you get-- Ayana Ford: Okay. It says it's back to recording. Did the box come up for you? Jake Northington: Nope. Ayana Ford: Okay. It's recording. So I want to go back a bit on your photography, on how you talked about taking photos for the Black Student Center. So you had mentioned that you had books in the Black Student Center. Jake Northington: Yes. Yes. Ayana Ford: So what was then, so what were the books in the Black Student Center? Jake Northington: I'm glad you asked that, I've got them right here, since we're talking about it. I didn't, I didn't think we were going to talk about it, but since we gonna talk about it and let's talk about it. So, again, this is a study I did through the Black Student Center for one of my classes. So I took an independent study in my photography class, and I wanted to do similar to like a yearbook, but for Black students on campus. So for the years to come, people would always remember these times and that this happened and that this was around because we don't have a concerted effort of: here are the archives of photos of Black people on this campus. So since that doesn't exist, I was like, I'm going to start it. So the idea was every year to go around and capture some very good photos, as much as I could, of just different Black people on campus and around campus. And then I put a focus to it. Because I want it to add a social aspect to it. I wanted to make a corrective measure. It's an attempt to make a correction of a social issue. So, and then all the books go together. They create one sentence. So the titles of every book create one sentence. So this is the first book. (Northington holds up a book to the camera, soon starts flipping through its pages) It's called Hueman and it's spelled H-U-E meaning like, the hue or the tone or the skin color. I can show you a few pictures throughout the book. And I created these books to kind of change how people saw Black students on campus. And this was specific to the Black men. So, walking around campus, a lot of (Black men) are considered, you know, something negative. People love to use that same stereotypical word as thug or criminal, and, and we need to detach those verbs and those negative nouns to black men. So the idea for this book was, Hey, be yourself, be who you are, be what you are, and just sit here and give me a natural calm, solemn look. And we want to capture that. And I wanted to also show the campus. So a part of this was to show that the entire campus too. So we want to walk around and show the campus different areas of the campus, all different. And these Black men have a different mixture of ethnic backgrounds. And then we just wanted to go around and get a little bit of everybody. And when they saw this book, (laughter) I mean, people lost their minds. It's like, Oh, wow. Oh, wow. This is amazing. This is this. And that's the best part of it for me. How well people received the book was the best part to me. So I went to add a positive adverb. So when you saw this Black face of a Black man and you attach it to that adverb, this is kind of how propaganda works. So propaganda, it can be positive or negative. When you see a news article or a magazine and they put a picture and words, you combine that together and you get a thought in your head and they could kind of help curb some stereotypes that people have of Black men. So this one says philosophical. So I want you to be able to see this face and know that this person is philosophical. And let's add that together. And I actually know most of the people in his book. So this guy was--he worked in the art building and you know, that wouldn't come across if people just use the stereotypes. And then this is a Polaroid picture of me in the center, one of the first semesters working there. And in the book, I would put the thank yous and then I would translate it into an African language, so it also becomes a teaching tool. So this book is translated into Bantu and Bantu is spoken in South Africa by the Xhosa tribe, in Cape town, South Africa. So, and then this was completed in 2017, the first year of the center, so that's book one. Well, man, I had to keep it going. I had to keep it going. I didn't think I was going to keep it going, but everybody loved the book so much. It's like, All right, let me keep it going. (Northington holds up another book) So then this is the women's book, and this is actually the photo that's up in the center right now. So the big photo, it is on the wall in a Black Student Center. And this is, I love this photo. So, Janeice Young that's who that is, Janeice Young. I think she graduated in 2018? Yeah. Janeice Young. She worked in the-- So then I'll put a little bit, a little poem here. That's only my words that I wrote. And then this book is for Black women specifically. So I wanted to promote Black women being who they are, being them natural selves, loving school with them smiling and enjoying life because I wanted to get rid of, or aleve them in some out of the stereotype of being an angry Black woman. Of being loud or being obnoxious. So we're--we want to get away from those types of stereotypes and that type of negative casting. So then, just went around and taking all of these good photos. And I mean, they took a while. Some of these opportunities were like, I would have to take seventy or eighty photos to--and then pick out the one really good one that I liked. And I was able to enter some of these in art competitions, which went pretty well. That photo is actually taken in the center early on center. The center looks a lot different. So, you know, that's one of the archival pieces anymore, its a lot different. So now these people have all different majors, again, all different mixtures. Some of these people are from different countries around the planet. And I wanted--to kind of this be like a promotional tool as well. So I started to bring these to the orientations as well and show other students ; “Look, look, you can be in the next book.” And it really inspired a lot of students. And that's the SBSB (Social and Behavioral Sciences) building. So I just got all positive reviews ; everybody that was in the book, everybody that saw the book, everybody just keeps saying positive things about it. So I think it was a good idea. It ended up being a great idea. And some of these people worked in the center before, like both of them. So I think she's graduating right now. She worked in the center. And then this is more archival footage. There's--the Extended Learning Building is now back here, and another dorm building that didn’t exist then. And then this is one of the dramas--and this is one of the feeder campuses MiraCosta. So it's a community college that feeds into this school. And then this was taken inside of the USU (University Student Union). So it was right in front of the campus. I love it. I love it. And then again, the teaching tool in this book, this was translated into Somali and it's spoken in Yemen, Djibouti, Somalia, Kenya. And then I also get to get a little help from some of the students who are from African countries, and they help translate. So it's a whole group effort. And then, that book is called “Solar Amalgamations.” And this is the third and final book (Northington holds up a third book). This is the one I most recently completed before I left campus. And this book is called “We Are,” so the focus of this book was to show us together. So first we had the book about the men and changing the negative images in the book and the book about women and changing a negative stereotype. And then now I want to bring these people together and show men and women together, you know, enjoying a campus, the campus life, something that we rarely get to see Black students doing. You may see some Black students in diversity photos, or something like that, students together and some of these photos. So again, I put some nice little positive words and a little bit of a poem. And then that's the front steps of the campus and you just got students walking around and much of this looks like a commercial. It looks just like a, you know, a little magazine article or something like that. And that's the feel I wanted to give off. I wanted people to be able to look through here and just see, hey, just regular students. This is Keenan. He plays a guitar all the time. And my man, Sam, he's a skateboarder. So we get to see a lot of these things. So ideally enjoying campus together and that's and that's a really good photo. So I'm sure they're going to look back on this ten, fifteen, twenty years from now and remember that day and what they were laughing about. So, that's the point. I mean, I love it. You might recognize some of these people, maybe, maybe not. That was the point of this book and, let's get to the end. Oh, there go--my favorite two people right there, Ms. Marilyn (McWilliams), Ms. Ariel (Stevenson). You will be interviewing them soon. Shamar. And then some of these students now work in the Black Student Center. It's just a whole, well, just circle to circle. Kiki, Taj – he worked in the center for a while. So we got a little bit of everybody. And then and at the end of each book, I always put a photo of myself too, just to, you know, who the artist was. And this is actually a photo with two photos from the previous book that's in the art show at the campus. They had an art show on campus and they asked me to put my stuff in the art show. So I submitted it and they got picked for some of the final pieces. A lot of students submitted and then mine got picked. And so it was just a good reflection to show it in the book, actually a photo from the art show. And then this one was translated into Swahili. Swahili is spoken in Tanzania, Congo and Kenya as well, or Rwanda and other places. So, and just show us there holding hands. And then all the--all three books, the sentence that it completes is: “We are human solar amalgamations.” So those are the three titles. “We are,” “Hueman,” and “Solar Amalgamations.” And that pretty much loosely means, “We are stars.” That's what that means. And then that completes one project. And now I'm going to move on to work on a different project for Black people. Ayana Ford: So by keeping these archives, would you say that--how would you say that it impacted, the art, I mean, the environment of the Black Student Center? Because you can go back and look at the history, how do you think that impacted students? Jake Northington: I think it makes students really feel good about who they are and what they are. It just makes us feel good. It's like, Okay, I can do this too! And then it was just done last year or the year before, or just, there's been a history of Black people before me that came here as a freshmen or sophomore, and they made these things happen. I can also do it. These people got involved and you start to see some of the same faces. Oh, she was also the president here. She was also the vice president here. She was also in the Academic Senate. She did this, this, this, and this. She graduated ; she got these awards. If she can do it, So can I. If he can do it, so can I. So to continue to see people that look like you do these things at the same school, again, it's only as inspiration. And it helps a lot of our students coming in to even give more effort, to be involved, to be around, to start to do some of the work themselves and to--and now we can kind of pull some of these people in to get into doing things as such as going to graduate school, or now they might be more apt to accepting help in the areas that they need help in, because that becomes a hurdle. A lot of students don't want to ask for help because they don't want to feel unintelligent. They don't want to ask for support because they don't want to feel like they're in poverty. And they don't want to feel judged. Well, that's a real thing. So if we can show a little more, if we can speak a little more about our experiences so we have--we get to show up as a graduate or as a senior and say, Hey, look, I had to stretch out a few dollars throughout the month. I had tough, tough times in this particular history class or that particular class. This is why I reached out for help. I went to the food pantry for this. I went to the tutoring lounge for this. I went to this for this. Now that allows a link in a chain to be made, to help Black students succeed more when that's the point: to keep them here and to graduate them and prepare them for life after the university. So I think just the pictures up, just having the photos add to that. Each thing we do on campus for the Black students and for Black Student Center all adds to the overall goal of keeping students there, recruiting students and graduating students, it all adds. And now building that Black alumni chapter. Now we take it even a step further. So every part of this process was necessary. Every single person that was involved was necessary, and I just think they all should be mentioned and named. And whether it has a big plaque made to put everybody's name on it, or we definitely need to get that Tiffany, Jamaéla, and Akila photo and plaque up in the center, you know, stuff like that before too many years, it'd be forgotten. You don't need these events or these situations to be forgotten. These people should be remembered. And everybody needs to know that this occurred. Because we have to think back: 1989 the school was established. There have been many Black people to come to this school since 1989. Well, since then many Black people have tried to make change on this campus. We may never know their names. We may never know the change they was trying to create. We may never know about the five, eight, ten attempts to get a Black Student Center, but we can't let stuff like that continue. We need to reach back and try to find those stories and we need to establish something to move forward. That's what makes--we're so lucky that we got Gezai (Berhane) here because Gezai’s the first Black graduate, so we could kind of get some of those stories from then to now. And we can kind of connect the 30-year path of this campus and Black action on this campus. And we can connect those thirty years together and kind of tell that story and kind of add and add to it, add to that. I really love that about this project and I'm just so happy it was able to happen and that people want to be involved with this. Because this is going to affect the Black community forever on this campus. Ayana Ford: Yeah, absolutely agree. Well, that is all the questions I had. Do you have any more, anything else you would like to add? Jake Northington: Yeah. I’d like to thank Ms. Marilyn McWilliams and Ms. Ariel Stevenson, because I probably would not still have stayed on the campus, and I might've transferred, if it wasn’t for people like them. Because they add a good element of support that you may never get. You know, because when I got here, we didn't have a center. It's (hard) to find spaces to get some, you know, just to be able to go talk out ideas, to be able to go, just relax a bit, to get to step away from the campus while you're still on campus. So, I was able to go visit their office and just sit down and get some little, I guess they would call it counseling or mentorship or whatever people describe that as, but to be able to just sit down and just talk to them and be like, All right, this is what's going on campus right now. This is happening. This is happening. And they were able to give me (advice), Hey, you can go here to get that handled. You can talk to this. You can go to this meeting. You know, to have people to be able to point me in the right directions to get some of these things accomplished. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be able to walk into all these directions. And I probably wouldn’t have been as involved as I was. When they encourage all of the Black students--and those are two staff members that show up to everything that's been done by the Black Student Center and by the BSU. And they've all, they've consistently shown up, those two. Most of the Black students have probably seen them or spoken to them or even met with them quite a few times. So without them, it would be a totally different story, so (laughs) I can't leave anybody out. Ayana Ford: Well, thank you so much for allowing me to interview you for this project. And thank you so much. Jake Northington: Thank you! (interview concluded but then started again) Ayana Ford: So Mr. Northington what is your major? What was your major at (California State University) San Marcos. Jake Northington: So, I came to San Marcos in the spring 2016 and I graduated fall 2019. So my major was Visual and Performing Arts with an emphasis in art and technology. My first minor is Ethnic Studies. Ayana Ford: So what got you into photography? Jake Northington: Just the class that was on my list. My intention was to do digital art and media. So that's the point of signing up for that program. But while in the program, one of the class options to take was a photography class to meet some of the requirements. So I took that class and I just liked it. And it seemed doable and it was not as hard as I thought photography was, at least not for me. I thought it was more difficult than what it was. So the teacher did a very good job at teaching us how to use any camera so you don't have to just get one and that's it. She kind of showed us how to use all cameras of all brands and how to manipulate the camera and, you know, just all the lighting techniques and everything we needed to use. And then in addition to that, CSU San Marcos has a great support system for all the areas of art. They have a music studio, they have an art studio, they have a dance studio and they have a recording studio within the library as well. Having all of those options, you're allowed to really practice your craft. I was able to go check out studio time in the library on the first floor in the library and continue to just take photos, take photos, do recordings and it allowed practice because I saw what I wanted things to look like in my head, but I couldn't physically do it yet with the camera. Just having this person as a teacher and then having those elements available on this campus, it allowed me to now get time to sharpen these things up and get my photos to the point where I wanted them to look like. And it really, I just--I was excited from the beginning because all I thought about was photographing Black people on campus. Like, I know we need this. This has to be. And then I had to go sell it, like, okay, who's gonna buy this? And I don't mean sell it as far as money. I mean, sell the idea of putting this up on campus. There were no photos up of Black people on campus when I showed up. So I was--and then you walk around another year, goes by. And then I saw one picture and this was a Black woman who was a track athlete on the campus. And then that's the only thing I saw. I'm like, We have to change that. My whole idea was: I got to learn how to use this so I could put out all of these things and I can show up to all these events and take the pictures, because everybody's just taking pictures on their phones or something like that. And it's not, you know, it's not enough. People just have personal photos on their phones. I'm like, No, I have to do this. So I actually went around and took pictures, for ASI, for all types of groups on campus, and I just kept getting practice, kept getting practice. By the time the center opened, I had a good year in. And then I was like, Okay, I think I can start to help. And then I started. Just kept doing it, kept doing it, the whole idea behind that first class was, I need to do promotion of Black people because I have to put these positive images of Black people out here. So, and it just, you know, some of the photos I ended up using for flyers, some of them, I ended up using for some of my PowerPoint presentations in different classes and it just continued to grow and continue to grow. And I still use a lot of them today and now everybody loves it. And then a lot of the students got free photos out of it. Because people like, “Oh, I want a photo shoot. I want a photo shoot.” So now I'll go do a little photo shoot, give them all the photos. And then we sit together and go, okay which, give me the top three that you like. And I'll pick between one of those three to go into the book. And that's how those things happen. So I let them help me decide which photos actually went into the book because this is going to promote you and show you. You want to show yourself how you want to show yourself. I love it. So that's what got me into photography. And then I later went on to just work professionally with a couple of groups in San Diego for about four or five years. And it only stopped because you know, everything going on right now (referring to the COVID-19 pandemic). But, I just continued to do photography. Ayana Ford: Well, any, do you have anything else to add? Anything you can think of? Jake Northington: Well, I would say once we got the Black Student Center, it also opened up job opportunities for Black students that didn't exist before. So previously Black students were in competition with everybody else on campus to work everywhere for student workers. So--some people may have reservations about Black people or some people may believe in stereotypes. And any other reason that hinder Black students from having the same job opportunities on campus as other students. When we walk, you walk around and see all these USU (University Student Union) workers, see all of the people working in different departments. Again, you just don't see a lot of Black students. You don't see, you know, three, four or five of them and that's it. Well having a Black Student Center now opened up more job opportunities and now opened up spaces for Black students to come in and practice being a professional worker in the world, because maybe you push buggies for Ralphs (supermarket chain). Maybe you load the groceries at Walmart, but you haven't done a professional job in a professional setting. You haven't done report writing. You haven't put on events. So this now opens up an arena for Black people and Black students to kind of practice some of these jobs skills or even have a job opportunity on campus. That became a big thing that didn't exist before. So now over the years, Black students now have an area, Hey, I can apply here and I might have a good chance to get a job. And this might--you might have a better chance getting a job at the Black Student Center and then everywhere else on campus combined. So it opened that up. And then a lot of other students kind of what, that may be not have worked before, they wanted to work. And they could have been here freshman, sophomore year, didn't care to work, but then by junior year they were like, Oh, you know what? I want to work in the Black Student Center. They putting on all these amazing events. I want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of the creation. I want to build a part of this. Some students actually did that. And then some students came to the campus with the idea of working in the Black Student Center. Because you know, them and their parents were going over this like, Okay, you're going to stay on campus. You--this is going to be your major. This is going to be a class period. What are your opportunities for working? The center is now listed in the opportunities for on-campus jobs. So I think that was a great help as well. And it's still. Right now (the BSC) have served as a great help over the time, because look at how many Black students have worked in the center now over the years. All of those students would not have a job, at least not there. So now it'd be a little more difficult for them to work somewhere else without that opportunity. And these skills just go along with the rest of your life. Now, and I just think it built, it just builds a lot of love and comradery within the Black community on campus, which then in turn, turns into a lot more Black people walking around, feeling better about themselves, and maybe they have a better day or maybe their grades are a little bit better. Maybe they don't have as hard a time studying. And maybe they feel better just about walking around and being on campus. So these things really have a great effect. And the Black Student Center is just, that's the greatest place on campus. I would eat my meals in there when I was on campus. I'm getting my food, I'm coming to eat here. So people started doing that. People would normally go off campus and go to some fast-food restaurant and hang out, eat, and then come back to campus. Not anymore. They go pick their food up and come back to eat it in the center to be around people and to talk and, you know, have a little fun and play a few games or something before they go back to class. So it just is building community. And that, again, that's another thing that just can't be measured. I hope it's here until the end the time. We should have the Black student center. And I'm trying to come back to the 25th anniversary, to the 70th anniversary. Lastly, I'm just ready for next year to have this (project of oral histories) presented. However its going to be presented by video or audio, however, is coming out, transcribed. However it comes out. I'm very excited for year five (of the BSC’s existence) and all of the people that has been a part of making it happen. And I just, I thank everybody, and I'm glad my idea came to fruition and we got a nice little grant to make this happen. This was great, it happened pretty fast too. I didn't yet thank the library for their help in making it happen. Ayana Ford: Thank you so much for allowing me to interview you today. Thank you. Jake: Alright. Alright. We good now? (interview concluded but then started again) Ayana Ford: So, do you know of the people who push for the Black Student Center specifically, like a couple of names and how it came to be? Jake Northington: Yeah. I mean, I can give you some names. I can't name everybody, but I recognize some of the people because they were there throughout the whole time, but again, some of the students were seniors already. So, you know, they did what they could and then graduated and were gone, and then some of the students were in and out and maybe not there all the time. But a few of the students are the--there was these two twins. They were the current BSU presidents during the time when we opened the space. And their names was Danni and Darnesha, I think the last name is Thornton. Also have Ashton, you have another guy, Louis Adamsel. You have, Marvin Cook who was later to BSU president. Like once the center officially opened, he was the BSU president. You have Renee White. You have a lot of women from a sorority that was there, so then we have, Darhra Williams ; another one of the original workers in the center. Think it was originally five or six workers in the center. You have another name, Brandy Williams. Another lady ; she went to a lot of ASI meetings to try to garner support and push for the reason for us to have the center. We have--oh, there's just so many people. That's about all I can think of right now, quickly off the top of my head. So there's others, there’s others, but those are some of the main people that I would see constantly. And then there’s staff members as well. So that was Black faculty and staff members as well, that assisted along the way, Dilcie Perez. Of course, Mrs. Marilyn (McWilliams), Ariel Stevenson., so we have a lot of staff members like that, that were assisting, (technical difficulties) so involved. Other than that, I mean, you have to go back and look at pictures and kind of pull up some more names. Because remember, this is years ago, you’re talking about 2016 when all of these things were happening pretty big, so its been a few years-- Ayana Ford: And so what programs did you help create and you're involved in, in some form? Jake Northington: Yes. So I came together with a guy, Louis Adamsel again, I came together with him and we kind of talked about having a brotherhood student organization. So there was nothing specific to Black men on the campus. Everything was just, you know, it was geared to other people or groups. But there was nothing geared towards Black men. We talked about it for a while and then we started it ; he was the president. I was vice president. And the idea for that was to assist the Black men. And again, with tutoring, mentorship, help guiding them through being a student, help them out of trouble, help them with their classes, class selection, and just help them in life skills that they maybe didn't get from growing up in whatever area they're coming from. And if they did get it, it just helped them with some confidence, kind of put them in positions to where they could speak more or be seen more, and just any type of support that they needed. And that was kind of about the things we go through individually and how we could collectively change those things. And this is--and some of those guys ended up in the book (Hueman), so it's three or four of those guys went in the book, from the brotherhood. And we started that in 2017 and this was--these are one of the things that has now attached to the center as a program. And now it's called the Brotherhood Alliance. So now they're continuing it. And that was the point, you know, because the student organization does as well or as bad as the group of students that are there. Yeah. And then you get stretched thin trying to continue an organization if the organization is not very big, so something that important needed to continue. So I presented this to John Rawlins (III, previous director of the Black Student Center) and he liked the idea, he wanted to continue it. So, and then they call it the Brotherhood Alliance and they still even meet right now. And I go to some of the meetings now and they just continue it. And they have another group, a group of guys that are the president and vice-president. So he (Rawlins III) got another group of guys that's keeping it going and, and they're active on campus and hey, I love it. I'm glad it's--I'm glad it's moving. Another organization that I got started was the Black Sistahood. So we had a Black Brotherhood, Black Sistahood. So we want to have them both. You don't just, you know, I'm not into just one side of the coin. We have to help both sides because there are particular things that we go through, you know, that needs to be addressed. Well, I couldn't be in the president of the Black Sistahood, you know, I don't think that should be led by me. So I continued to pick different women on campus that I thought would fit the bill. And I wasn't getting a lot of a response back. So it took a while to kind of find somebody that wanted to take the mantle of that. But in the meantime, it was like the Black Brotherhood and Black Sistahood was housed within the Black Brotherhood. So we would still help everybody. We would still help and support the different Black women on campus, but we were not going to lead a conversation or lead a program specifically for Black women. So it was just kind of housed within the Black brotherhood. And then we would do it in a different way and we would go support the Black women, the Black womens’ sorority events and things like that. So once I finally ran into a person, Sunni Bates, she was very excited about this and she wanted to be the leader of it. And I was like, Okay, here we go! Now we got somebody that wants to lead that. So she became the president and then I didn't want to hold any type of position because that's for them, specifically. So then we went out and recruited different members and we got a bunch of ladies together who were not active in any other groups and it was like, Okay, here's another, here's another club to push Black people--help Black people to push themselves out of the idea of this is all we have and that's all it is, anything outside of that is wrong. And I think some people on different campuses really feel like you should only have a BSU. Anything outside of that is challenging the BSU. Well I didn't stand for that. I was like, We have to change that idea. I draw. We need to have a Black art club. These people love movies. We need a Black movie club. So these are the things we pushed around. We started to have Black movie nights. Then we have you know, a night for this, a night for that. They started a dance group. Some ladies had a dance club that they started and there's even a new dance club right now. So just to keep pushing the idea, we can have more, we can have fifteen or twenty Black student clubs. So this gives a vast array of things for Black students to be active in. When you only give them one or two, that doesn't do enough. We're all different. We all got different likes and wants and needs. So we need to spread it out, that's the other part of having a Black Brotherhood or Black Sistahood. So--and then I just operated in both of those. And again, I'm on my way out. Then John, John Rawlins was like, Hey, is this something we could kinda take on from y'all because both of y'all are going to be leaving. So I spoke with him (Rawlins III), Sunni spoke with him, and then now they have—I think they call it the Circle of Sisters. I think that's what it's called, something like that, or something close to that. So now they have that with the Brotherhood Alliance, and these are now programs housed in the Black Student Center. That didn't happen before. So now offering multiple clubs. And then now they're housed in the center versus if a few active students leave, these things may get thin or spread apart or go away, and we don't need those things to happen. So we need things that are constant and constant, and that are continually going to help the students and support the students. So I was really happy to see that happen. And then, you know, now you don't have to put that burden on a new student, showing up to try to collect the Black brothers together, collect the Black sisters together. You don't have to put that burden on them. Now they have a vehicle to operate out of, it just gives more help to a need. So then through all of these different clubs and organizations--remember, I'm an art student--so I'm not only taking pictures, I'm doing sculptures. I did a couple of sculpture things that I did for ASI and, and that I did for the Women's Center. And then the Women's Center over at the time changed their name to the Gender Equity Center, but it was the Women's Center when I got there. And then so I did this sculpture piece in collaboration with them and with ASI around saving straws. So the straw campaign happened during I was, while I was at the school. And they wanted to stop the use of as much plastics and put it together to create a sea animal, which was a sea turtle to show: look at how this affects the marine and aquatic life. And we used that to kind of help push sustainability and to end the uses of straws on campus and all these other things. So, I was able to use my artwork and all these dynamic ways, and then now I started to design logos and shirts for clubs and organizations outside of the Black Student Center and in a Black Student Union. And then that just led to so many more opportunities. I began to photograph events for the diversity office (Office of Inclusive Excellence), for ASI, clubs and just different things. And then at the end it was time for me to make my own. I've done so much for so many other people. And then just so many people, I just got so much good feedback from a lot of the t-shirts and stuff that I made. And a lot of the designs I was like, I guess it's time for me to make my own, I'm on my way out of here so I'm just going to start making some of my own stuff. So then I started making Brotherhood and Sistahood t-shirts and hoodies and sweaters and all jackets, different things like that. And I'll just keep testing out things, keep redesigning things. That's a lot of the stuff I did in my last semester. And then that ended up with their own t-shirt line. And now I make my own stuff, so I love it (Northington holds up the hoody he is wearing). And some of these things have now been sold to different colleges and universities. They contact me and I, you know, I have my own LLC, my own business. And I work with other Black student centers and diversity departments, and they buy stuff in bulk to give out to Black students across the San Diego and LA County. And so those ideas and all of that work that I was able to do, and things I was able to be a part of, and working with the different groups, and just creating and sparking new ideas led to this ; I use this to help pay for graduate school as well. So it's a nice full circle of work. Ayana Ford: Yeah. And then you still came back to San Marcos to help us with this project. Jake Northington: (laughter) Well, they haven’t let me go. So, I've done a few projects even after graduating. Once I graduated, I still did about four or five other projects post-graduation. Ayana Ford: So like, for example, for this Black student Center project, what was your direct role in getting this made? Jake Northington: Well my direct role was it was my idea to begin with, and I don't know if anybody’d thought of this before. Maybe they did, but it--and they weren't able to make it happen. And it took the right people. So like Sean Visintainer (Head of Special Collections, University Library), like John Rawlins (III, Director of the Black Student Center), it, you know, it took the right people. So the right people were here at the same time. And once the ideas got around, they were interested. Sean was interested. John was interested when I gave the idea to him. So then they started to spread out and build the team that we needed. We got a team of like five people. And with that team now, it's like, All right, let's get through the planning stage. So we spent six, eight months planning through the summer, through the winter to get through the planning stage. And then now reach out to hire students, point out all different people we needed to be involved as far as telling stories like this. And just to watch it all happen is it's just, I guess that might be more satisfying, I get to actually watch my idea happen like that. And I just hope everybody really can get something out of this, or at least get close to what I'm getting out of it. Because it's, I mean--to be a student that operates on campus and you're trying to be active and you're trying to make changes for your community? And then to see something like that happen when I knew it took years to get the Black Student Center! Years to even crack the door open. But then now this situation happened within a matter of a year, year and a half. And I'm like, Oh, this is, you know, this is great! And people are more apt to help and support--the email went out about, Hey, we're looking for students to be a part of this project and to do interviews and this, this, this, and then to start getting feedback like that, you know, I don't know if this could have happened in the same manner eight years ago, seventeen years ago. You know, the campus climate, the activities were a little different, so it just the right time and the right people. And we're able to pull this off. I mean this definitely on my resume (laughs). So it was one of the highlights on my resume to even have my name attached to this. So it--say after that, this is definitely up there. I think my, I like my books a little more, but, but this is up there. Ayana Ford: Well I’m glad you’re able to be a part of it. Jake Northington: Yeah. Ayana Ford: Thank you. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. 
 ; 
 ; Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. 
 ; 
 ; Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. 
 ; 
 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NorthingtonJake_FordAyana_2021-04-06.xml NorthingtonJake_FordAyana_2021-04-06.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northington, Jake. Interview April 6th, 2021
Description
An account of the resource
Jake Northington is a California State University San Marcos alumni. He graduated with his degree in Photography in 2019. Jake worked in the Black Student Center and created photography that hangs in the Center. In this interview, Jake discusses his childhood growing up in East St. Louis, Illinois, how and when he came to CSUSM in 2016, and his involvement with the creation of the Black Student Center.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-01
Subject
The topic of the resource
Artists, Black
California State University San Marcos. Black Student Center
California State University San Marcos -- Students
Portrait photography
Student success
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-04-26
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jake Northington
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ayana Ford
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
East Saint Louis (Ill.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Jake Northington
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Activists and activism
Art and artists
Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
CSUSM history
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral Histories
Description
An account of the resource
Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Sean Visintainer
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jake Northington
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer)
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NorthingtonJake_VisintainerSean_11-22-2019_Access.xml
Interview Keyword
This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
Photography
art
student
representation
Black art
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Oral history of Jake Northington, November 22, 2019 SC027-13 1:19:31 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM Artists, Black California State University San Marcos -- Black Student Center California State University San Marcos -- Students Portrait photography Photography art student representation Black art Jake Northington Sean Visintainer Video NorthingtonJake_VisintainerSean_11-22-2019_Access.mp4 1:|22(12)|38(4)|55(4)|71(13)|88(2)|109(7)|123(8)|138(12)|156(3)|178(2)|193(4)|206(6)|229(13)|242(7)|255(3)|273(10)|291(6)|316(4)|331(7)|346(15)|363(13)|378(10)|400(10)|412(9)|423(9)|434(11)|447(1)|458(6)|471(11)|484(3)|496(10)|513(2)|528(7)|539(12)|550(3)|561(6)|574(2)|587(1)|599(6)|612(13)|631(3)|642(14)|654(4)|668(3)|682(3)|695(6)|715(9)|727(9)|741(14)|755(2)|770(6)|783(1)|796(7)|811(1)|826(6)|836(11)|854(10)|866(1)|887(7)|902(3)|931(10)|943(6)|956(13)|968(9)|996(8)|1012(5)|1030(11)|1053(2)|1072(3)|1084(8)|1104(6)|1134(2)|1156(11)|1169(13)|1218(2)|1233(9)|1250(4) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d2ed47e7379313178c08129ae5d93fcf.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction / Growing up and photography influence Sean Visintainer: This is Sean Visintainer and I'm interviewing Jake Northington as part of the Cal State San Marcos University Archive's Oral History Project. The interview took place on Friday, November 22nd, 2019 at the University Library, California State University San Marcos. Jake, thank you very much for talking with us today. I thought we'd start off by talking about some of your formative years, especially how they relate to your passion for photography. So, I wanted to ask you a few questions about your childhood and early adult life. And I wanted to start off just by asking, where were you born? Jake Northington: That I don't know the answer to. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, I grew up as an orphan and I lived in many cities, many states. Uh, I've seen a couple of birth certificates. So, not really sure, but, I grew up in East St. Louis, Illinois. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: That's why I grew up. Visintainer: So you grew up in East St. Louis. Was there any ways in which your childhood or your upbringing influenced your photography? Northington: Uh, yes. I would say yes. You know, uh, if you've ever heard of a guy by the name of Gordon Parks. So throughout the fifties and sixties, he photographed the civil rights movement and a lot of activists socially. So, seeing those type of pictures and watching movies produced by Spike Lee and other people through Black films, they would use a lot of still shots to enter into the movie or to exit out of the movie. So, the beginning and the ending to bookcase the movies, they would show a lot of still shots from Gordon Parks. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: You know, so that was probably the first time I saw images like that and the images Gordon Parks takes in particular of Black people living everyday life, you know? So, and that introduced me to other photographers that particularly took pictures of Black people that you would never see that I wouldn't see in magazines or on TV or anything like that. So. Visintainer: And when you say he took pictures of Black people living everyday life, are there any images that you recall that really stand out to you? Northington: Yes. Uh, he has a picture of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King smiling together at a banquet function. And it is like [19]66 or [19]67. And these are two people that have polarizing views of what Black people should do in America socially. So, you have one guy who wants to fully work with the system and you have one guy who wants to fully oppose the system. So, you have two different dynamics at play from the same, uh, atmosphere from the same starting point growing up at the same time yet they have two different ways of going about it. And then you see these people cordial and friendly. So that's an amazing picture for people in the Black community to see that you can have opposing views and still work for the same progression of your people. So. Visintainer: Okay. Thank you. Did he take pictures as well of less famous Black people? Northington: Yes. Yes, because that's, again, the start. So, from the research, it seems that he took a lot of pictures of jazz musicians. He even did short films himself, you know? So it was all encompassing. He became more famous for the photography, but he also did films. I believe he wrote a book as well. And, uh, so it's, it's a little, you know, all-encompassing to produce an entire artwork with the varying degrees and various wrinkles. So, it's not just one avenue and that's kind of the way I take my artwork, because photography's just one element of it. I didn't start off taking pictures. I started off drawing pictures. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, I draw still and that's still the basis of it all is drawing. So, I would consider taking pictures, just drawing with the camera. Jake Northington discusses growing up in East St. Louis and how his upbringing influenced his photography. Northington explains how Black photographer Gordon Parks, who documented the civil rights movement, was an inspiration to his work. Black photography ; East Saint Louis (Ill.) ; Gordon Parks ; Photography 233 Introduction to photography/ Studying at CSUSM Visintainer: Alright. So when did you make the transition from drawing into photography? Northington: Just three years ago, in one class here at this school. I took a--it's a digital photography class taught by Nancy diBenedetto. She's in the Navy and she was an adjunct professor at that moment. I don't know if that may be in her second or third year teaching here. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, in, uh, she thought I took pretty good pictures. So she gave me a few pointers. She kind of showed us a lot of stuff in the class. You know, we did so many field trips to go to different arenas. We went to farms, we went to parks and, you know, on campus and she put us everywhere. And then we went to see an photography exhibit downtown at Balboa Park they had a photography exhibit and the whole class had to go there. So, to see the photos you take and then be able to compare them to professional photography. It gives you, you know, something to look for or it allows you to see things you could correct yourself, you know? So, and that's how I kind of see photography, you making your own corrections, you know? And then if you're satisfied, then it's a good photo for you. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: Because they can all be looked at so differently. So, that's how hard is. Visintainer: Was it intimidating when you first started out comparing yourself to people in exhibitions? Northington: Not at all, not at all because I'm a person that always went to art museums. I went to plenty of exhibitions prior to this class, you know? Art is my whole world. So, I see everything as art: cars, clothes, shoes, a pencil, you know? I used to play with my mechanical pencils and take them apart, put them back together to see how it was put together, why they chose these colors, why they have the writing on it, you know? And for me, all of that is art because somebody with an artistic mind had to design your mechanical pencil, your eraser, your--your steering wheel on your car. So, it all plays a part. So, I wouldn't consider my stuff in a comparison measure to be less than it's just, this is the way I see it. That's the way they see it. There's two different eyes behind the camera. So, I wouldn't do that, but I'd look at their work and see like, “Okay, there's more clarity here, there's more depth.” There's more layers to their photography versus me taking a picture of a person. And there's just a wall in the background. There's no layers. So, I would be able to get some type of a scope of these are other things that are possible with the photos and then talking about the mood of the person. Can I really see the mood? I got more of that from watching modeling shows, you know? Of how your eyes can give away a smile or your eyes can give away a frown without the facial expression. So, then I have to input that into the photo. And now I'm trying to communicate that with the person in the photo to get the look I'm looking for. So, you know, it's a little bit of elements all over the place to put it all together. Jake Northington discusses studying photography at California State University San Marcos (CSUSM). Through a photography course, Northington was exposed to various arenas and exhibitions related to the medium. He explains how art is a part of our world and the elements that comprise work of art. California State University San Marcos ; Digital photography ; Photography ; San Marcos (Calif.) 412 Photography techniques / Mentoring students Visintainer: Okay. And do you started off with drawing, so I'm assuming that your experience and your learning as you started off with drawing, transferred into photography pretty well as well, but I was curious, were there any specific lessons or techniques that you took from your background in drawing and art that transferred directly into photography? Northington: Yes. The biggest thing I would say is filling up the space. So, before I started taking pictures, I would see a lot of people take pictures on social media and all these other things. I'm not a picture person myself. So, I don't just sit down and take pictures of myself or other people. I didn't-- I never did that, but I would do it mentally. So, you know, and you would see a picture or a background mentally before I even had the camera. So, I'm already doing it in my head. And then, uh, you know, people would, most people do it. They go, “Oh, that's a nice sunset.” Or, “Look at those mountains.” You're taking a visual picture in your head, you know, and this is why they can sell their painting at Marshalls. You go to Marshalls and you pick up the painting of the canvas of the Carlsbad beach area or the pier in Oceanside. You can sell that because it's a nice visual and you just capture that. And then, uh, I think everybody does that to a different degree. So again, picking up the camera, I've already had that exercise in my mind. So, from drawing, I got filling up the picture because I started drawing cartoons. So now I come in class and I'm taking art class. The professor would say, “You have to fill up the background, it's empty,” you know? You make it too one-dimensional or two-dimensional with no layers. You want to make it pop. You want to make it stand out. You want--so you need to add three, four, five, ten dimensions, whatever. Keep adding layers. So, filling up the whole sheet of paper and making an entire scene is what I took over to the photography side from, from drawing. Visintainer: Okay. And that's interesting. And when you mentioned cartoons, especially, so when I think of cartoons, I think of panels. Northington: Yes. Vistintainer: And I think of you know, word balloons and things that do fill up a panel there. Um, but oftentimes there's real kind of blank or not defined backgrounds. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: Do you try to do something similar with your portraiture, especially? Or do you utilize the backgrounds, uh, in a way that would be maybe different from how--? Northington: I would say it's both and it all depends on the intent of that photo. So, if the intent of that photo includes the background, then I'll make the black background a little more apparent and then if it doesn't, then you kind of shoot an aperture mode to, you know, to fizzle out the background, you know? And that's like a new app on everybody's phone, everybody's shooting in portrait mode on their, on their iPhone and it'll fuzz out the background, you know? So that's, if that's necessary for what I'm trying to get across then yes. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: If not, I'll really include the background, you know? Specifically with the photos you've seen with the sunlight actually being included in the background though, it's ninety-three million miles away so they say. Visintainer: Alright. Um, I think we've already covered a little bit about your instruction with tutoring, or tutoring that you had as well as your background in art. So, I kind of wanted to move on and ask you kind of in a reverse question, have you taken on any students or mentees yourself? Northington: Yes. Visintainer: Or in, so what advice did you give them? Northington: The same advice I get. And you know, one of the bigger things that probably the number one piece of advice I got from Nancy diBenedetto is just keep taking pictures. You have to make all the mistakes over and over and over and over and over and over. And then next year and I take ten thousand more pictures. I'm comparing my pictures now to my pictures, you know? And that's an easier fix and it allows you to grow within yourself versus I'm going to compare my pictures to somebody that's already in the magazine shooting for Getty Photos. You don't want to, you know, that's a big jump and you may never get there. And then understanding how much equipment plays a role. You could shoot with a, you know, a Polaroid camera from some convenience store that you got from CVS versus shooting with a $10,000 camera, you know, from Best Buy. That same person is going to produce a different quality of photo just from the equipment alone. So, learning that, you know, uh, learning, setting the background, and implanting the person versus trying to take the person and implant the background, you know? That was a big thing I learned too. So, that's something I teach some people. I have about four or five right now, just picked up a new guy, Shamar. So, I got about four or five students here at school that I kind of help out and assist with all the things that I've been told. And then I try to help them just develop their own way, you know? Don't take pictures like me, take pictures like you, you know? Don't become a copycat. You see what you saw in it. And I'll just try to help with, you know, technical things, things that may stand out to make this possibly not as good of a picture. But I can't help you with what you saw, what you see, what you want to produce. I don't want to touch that because that's for you. Visintainer: Okay. There were a couple things I wanted to come back to. Um, one of them is you mentioned you got to make the same mistakes over and over and over. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: What are some mistakes in photography that you made over and over and over before realizing--? Northington: Lighting. Visintainer: Lighting? Northington: Lighting. Uh, there's so many small things. There may be twenty-five or thirty things you have to do before you take a picture. And if you forget one of them, you'll be mad once you go to editing, you know? You walk outside, the sunlight is in one space in the sky. If you forget that and throw it out of your mind, then you're going to have a bunch of dark shadows on everybody's face. So, unless that was what you was exactly trying to do, then you kind of threw a lot of your pictures off. You want the light on them, you know. Learning the red, the orange and the blue and the white lights, you know, using the application on your actual camera, the white balance, you know, that's something that I didn't even pay attention to. Even though Nancy taught us in class, I spent a lot of months not using my white balance and you'll get a yellowish undertone to people's skin and the colors scheme will be off. And now in editing, you have to go through and try to mute all that yellowish and greenish because you didn't do a proper white balance, you know? So stuff like that, I had to waste a bunch of photos and SD cards because I didn't, you know, take that into account. So where are my light source come from? Having enough light for the individual. Focus--my focus points, you know, the different variations you could, adjust your camera to, you know? Shooting in portrait or shooting in, you know, a fast pace or a slow pace. Understanding that, uh, your camera only captures so much depending on the lens. So, if I have a $700 lens, I could do a little bit more than that standard lens you come with, but I have a $2,000 lens I can do even a little bit more. It allows for even more mistakes because that vibration control works a lot better in the $2,000 lens than it does in that standard lens you get. So, understanding all of those things before I even take the photo. Using a tripod to take photos versus handheld, because nobody can sit still, you have a heartbeat, your body can’t sit still. You have to hold your breath and pause everything. You know, that’s just like, you know? Anybody that does weaponry, you learn the same thing. When you have to shoot a rifle on a range, you have to hold your breath, squeeze in between your breath, because that’s the only still you’re going to get. It’s the same thing. I think that’s what you call it, “shooting with the camera,” cause yeah, it’s some of the same techniques. So, anybody that shoots rifles, it’s kind of the similar techniques. For putting it’s a similar technique. So, shooting free throws, similar technique, you know, those positions, you have to pause that breath. So, all of those things at once before you even take the picture, if you rush through it, you just wasted some time. I had to do it. And then I look back at my photos from the beginning. Because I even have a book that's not out for anybody to see because it's a book of mistakes, you know? And I keep it and I have it in my room and I look at it from time to time. I can't--this is where it started, you know? A lot of blown out pictures because it's too much light, a lot of yellow skin because no white balance, a lot of blurry pictures because my arm is moving too much. And I have to keep it to look at my mistakes to remind myself, to keep all of these things in mind before I shoot the picture. So, you know, that’s, it’s a part of it and it’s--it's needed. Visintainer: Yeah. Do you keep all of your photos that you take? Northington: Yes. So, I have quite a few hard drives so, and the only thing I don't like is they usually last, you know, four or five years and you got to switch them up again. Don't like that, but you know, because you have to keep paying for that over and over and over, but yeah, you should. I would tell people to keep them all because if you get rid of your mistakes, you can't see them. It's hard to improve like that. So, unless you’re always going to have a teacher right ahead of you constantly doing, you know. So it’s hard to self-improve without a constant teacher or a constant reminder of the things you need to work on. So, and I would employ people to do that on their own by always having a teacher because you’re being guided a little too much. Take your own steps. So. Jake Nortington explains different photography techniques, such as adding layers and defined backgrounds. Northington also discusses mentoring students and the advice he lends to them about creating art and photography. He stresses the importance of making mistakes and learning from one’s mistakes to his student mentees. Art ; Drawing ; Mentoring ; Photography ; Photography--Techniques ; Students 1005 Selecting photography subjects Visintainer: I think that's good advice. There was another thing I wanted to come back to and that was, you mentioned importing your subjects into your backgrounds. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: And forgive me if I'm not phrasing exactly how you did. And I thought that was really interesting because you do portraiture, you go out, you look for people that I assume that are, that you want to have that are subjects. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: So, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the process of how you choose your subjects. Northington: (laughs) Yeah. Visintainer: And then I guess the follow up, you know, beyond the process of how you choose your subjects, then how do you insert them into the backgrounds? Do you choose your backgrounds and look for a subject or, what do you do? Northington: I don’t even decide, it decides itself. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, just being a student, you have to walk around campus, you take enough classes, you’ll go into every building on campus. So, been here almost four years now. So, I’ve been in every building. As I’m always walking, I’m seeing these scenes, making mental notes. I want a picture right there. I want a picture right there. Mental note--it just built this bridge across the street. I need a picture right there from the bridge. So, you know, and there's a lot of tall buildings here. So, it gives for a lot of angles. A lot of birds-eye-views and worms-eye-views. So, it is a lot, it's enough layers here, even in a compact campus. So, all of those backgrounds are constantly piling up. So now I have all these backgrounds. Northington: Now it's about the people. Who do I want to use for the next photo? It's all that random, you know, but I don't want anybody too excited. I prefer a person who is on the edge of saying “No,” but they'll do it anyway. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: That's what I want. I don't want somebody that, “Oh, I take a thousand pictures for social media every day.” No, they usually are too excited, too much to calm down. That's just been what I've seen just from taking pictures for three years. People that are over excited to take photos, it's usually for me. Other people may be different, but for me it's more difficult to get them to the look, the feel and the expression that I need for the photo. And that photo shoot would last two hours. When I could have got the picture in seven minutes with a person that's more calm and mundane and melancholy. We can get the photo in seven minutes and then now I can spend thirty minutes getting a bunch of photos to use for later. So that's more conducive for me. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, and I particularly want people who have never seen. So, the invisible people is what I want. Melancholy, invisible. That's the people I want: the unseen. You know, people walk around every day and pretend like homeless people are not standing on the street with a sign asking for water or food. Yet, they're walking a dog, picking up behind a dog, feeding the dog and walk right past a homeless human being, you know? So, we see this every day in society. So, the unseen get no support, no help, you know? They don't get to smile. They don't get to feel good about themselves, you know? We can change that. So that's a part of the social activism of my work. I want the people who are less recognized, the people who may then have such a good time in middle school or high school, got picked on. Maybe wasn't as tall as everybody else. Not as muscular, not as attractive, not as whatever, you know, " ; -ism” you want to use. Those people should be recognized, because everybody should be included. So, there’s no popularity contest with my photos. I’ve turned down more people than most. Because people that ask me to take their photos, it's probably ninety-seven percent time, it's a “No.” I say “no” every week. So (laughs). Visintainer: When do you say “yes” when somebody asks you to? Northington: If it's like a social, like, situation as I'm graduating? Okay. That's a necessary-- to capture this moment. You know, [if] I'm having a birthday party, you know, something like that. People celebrate different, you know, different holidays and stuff like that. So, those are understood situations. But when it's like, “Oh, can you take pictures of me? Can you take?”-- because it's a lot of that. You know, people are doing that with phones every day. But when they find out somebody has a camera and oh, you take pictures a little, you know, on a little higher level than a camera phone. “Oh, can you get these pictures of me for this or for this?” you know, I get some of the same people over and over and over. Even after I’ve taken pictures for them, they’ll keep coming back for more and more and more. No, no, no. That’s enough. You have a phone on your camera. That’s enough. You know, because I believe you’ve already accomplished what we needed to with the photos. You feel good about yourself, you know? And you’re walking around elevated. Good. We made it happen. That's so that's enough for me. So, I don't need to entertain that anymore. So, we trying to pick up the people who feel a little, you know, more lowly about themselves. Pick those people up. Jake Northington describes his process of choosing his portraiture subjects. He explains that he prefers for his subjects to be individuals who are rarely seen. Northington’s photography aims to capture the “invisible” or unsupported people in society. He hopes that his photography is a form of activism, which can bring awareness to the “unseen” individuals in our community, such as the homeless. Black people in art--Photography ; Photography ; PHOTOGRAPHY / Subjects & ; Themes / Portraits 1306 Black representation in art and media Visintainer: So, one of the things that I think separates beyond skill level, obviously that separates art and photography from say more commercial enterprises, like, you know, capturing a wedding or something like that is a philosophy or a thought process-- Northington: (both talking at once) Yes. Visintainer: (both talking at once) --behind the production of the art. And you've talked a little bit about, um, about how you want to make sure that the people that are unseen are seen. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: But I was curious if there's other philosophies that you take into the production of your art as well? Northington: Yes. My photography is particularly for Black people. So, it does two things. It’s force feeds Black images, Black positive images into everybody’s purview. I’m going to force feed it. There’s something—this comes back to just being a kid and I will walk in Walmart with everybody else that goes to Walmart since they’re billions and billions of dollars every year. You walk in Walmart and, and maybe you just need a picture frame because you and your family just had a family reunion or your grandmother’s birthday was celebrated, and you go pick up this picture frame and the family in the picture frame stock photo never looks like me. Ever. So, that's the standard. And then, you know, you play soccer, or me? I played tennis growing up and we win a little trophy and the figurine on top of the trophy is never me. It's never my people. And then let's say you fall in love with somebody, you get married and you go to the place to order your wedding cake. And you have to specially order the Black figurines and you wait a few weeks for it to come in the mail because everything in the store that's standard is not me. It's not my people. So, you can go across all media, all aspects of society. And the standard is one group. Everybody else becomes, you know? Well, they get to choose if they include you or not. So, what's happened for many commercials, many movies? We have this idea of the token, we'll insert one, you know, non-white person that could be anybody, you know? They may insert one Asian, one Latino, or one Black person, Disney movies do it all the time. Disney TV shows do it all the time. If you've ever seen South Park, they have a character called Token and he has a big “T” on his t-shirt and it's a Black kid that lives in South Park, Colorado amongst all of the other white kids. You know? This is a real thing in life and in a place particularly like San Marcos, this is not a Black city. It's not a Black area, you know? So, we have a lot of Black students here who were the one in their entire group of friends and, you know, sports, anything, they were involved in. So they're not the standard. So going back to Walmart, let me go get, you know, some stuff, some products for my hair. And there's an aisle called an “ethnic hair aisle” in Walmart. One aisle, two or three shells with hair products that's supposed to be for me. And then there's one, two, three, four, five whole aisles for the “standard” people. So, you know, the photography or the standard of people can be influenced by these things. So, you can learn to understand that you're not included by growing up like that. And those are just a few aspects, you know? Cartoons, whatever--toys, everything. A lot of little Black girls were getting little baby doll toys or Barbies or whatever. And it doesn't look like them. So, these things can help pull away at yourself, how you feel about yourself, how you view your skin, your hair, you know, your people in America. It could pull away and produce these negative aspects. And then you see yourself in film and you're always a drug dealer, a crack head, a prostitute, on welfare. Forever. So much so that a movie like the Marvel Black Panther movie makes a billion dollars and it automatically changes so many people's view. And it automatically brings up the feeling of a group of Black people. Or, 2008, when Barack Obama comes into office, you see the spiritual uplift of a bunch of Black people because of representation. And then he has so many books out between him and his wife. They produce different books. There's so much photography of them. There's so many art pieces that were made because they came into the office, you know? There's a there's a professional painter that did a huge piece on Michelle Obama. That's famous all throughout social media, just for the representation. So, propaganda can be positive or negative. So, I'll take my photography to create some more, just add to the positive end. So, I feel like anybody can do that. If you have a camera phone in your hand, everybody can do that. So, I just choose to be on the more positive end because all of my life has only been negative for my people through film, photography, or otherwise, you know? Just pull up any school website and look at the photos they use for the school website. I almost never see my people in any realm, any aspect. Just Google any business, you know? There became a trend that you would only see Black people in McDonald's commercials and Cadillac commercials. And that's been the trend for like thirty years. And then, you know, Black History Month comes up and then you'll see somebody get inputted somewhere else, you know? Or like, the NBA is like eighty, eighty-five percent Black, but then during Black History Month, they have NBA Black history t-shirts that everybody in the NBA has to wear. So, you'll get that one time and then everything else is standard, you know, stuff like that. So, that's the way I look at it. I see it that way. I go, “Okay, how can we improve this?” I can put out more positive Black images. So, I will. So, I go look for people who may be down on themself, who may be just, “I'm just going to hide in the shadows,” or, “I'm unseen,” you know? That's the people I would prefer if I--if they're willing to be a part of it. And then just, you know, gradually go up and up and up. And then when we get too far to somebody’s just over-- “Okay, it's enough.” So, I'm just trying to get that aspect. That's not really, picked out and use and you know, uh, it could be commercial art. It could be just, you know? Fine art, any way you want to take it, but these things are going to last forever. So that's kind of the thought process behind the book. The photo books. They last forever. You can look back at this when you have kids and the grandkids and this event happened, you know? It happened. You have these yearbooks in high school. People always look back at the yearbooks, you know? A lot of grandmothers used to have this big photo album on a coffee table and you come to your grandmother's house and look at all these photos, you know? So, since those were a part of my life, this was a part of the process. Like, okay, I could put all that together and let's just tell a story with this book. And then, I use the book and find a social issue that affects Black people. So, and let's try to correct that social issue through photography, using the Black students here and then give them these photos. And I gave many of them the books that are in the books. Now they get to say they've been a part of this. They get to know. Their family gets to know. So, these pictures get to now reverberate through the Black community. Much like if you saw, you know, Michelle and Barack Obama walk across the stage 2008. So, it gives some type of spiritual upliftment. You feel proud of yourself and who you are, versus comparing yourself to the stock photo in the picture frame at Walmart. Visintainer: Yeah. So, you talked a little bit about representation right now, and then we've talked in the past about representation. And this is not necessarily a photography-related question, but I was curious, as a person of color, when you're out in the world and you don't see representation all around you, what are the kind of the kind of self-care approaches that you take to remain positive in an environment where there's an absence? Northington: Well, just the phrase you just use that I don’t use myself. “Person of color” is not in identifiable nomenclature for me or how I use for my people. You have notion such as “African American.” That’s not--that’s not for me to use. That’s for other people. That’s only been around nineteen years. U.S. census in a year 2000 added “African American” as an identifying, you know, political term to be used. That didn’t exist before then. So, I did a project in the library about that, you know, that we did here. And I showed how the nomenclature of Black people have changed since 1790 census to today. So, there’s been, you know, quite a few terms and phrases. So, the phrase that is currently used now is “people of color.” I don’t use that because you kind of amalgamate everybody into a group and that can be good in certain aspects. But for me, that adds more negative-- Visintainer: Okay. Northington: --For Black people, because we get away from talking about Black issues, and Black people by calling all issues of non-whites people of color issues. So, and a lot of these things need to be particular because people of color don't get kicked out of high school for their hair. People of color are not being murdered at this such high rate by the police on TV. So that's why I can't use a term like that or a phrase like that. But I do understand why people use it and then it gets, you know, it gets, you used a lot, but I--I can't use those terms because what affects Black people particularly is not a people of color issue, you know? People of color in hair that's, you know, it's such a different thing. So-- Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: --You know, just try to keep it a little more positive. And, uh, so, going back to your question. I would say, the women's book in particular, the main issue was like, I just brought up, the hair. So, there's black kids getting kicked out of school by the thousands every single year, just for having their natural hair, because my hair grows as my hair is supposed to. Your hair grows as it's supposed to. How can this now be a factor in who can be in school and who can't? And who's unkept and who's not, you know? So, we have Supreme Court rulings on this. Many states have their own state's law and federal law doesn't include, you know, the Constitution has nothing about hair in it, you know? Because that was the standard of one group of people. So, hair wasn't an issue. So, we have a lot of state Supreme Court ruling and that led me to the focus of the first book I did on natural hair. So, in 2016, they had an Eleven Circuit Court Supreme Court ruling said employers could in fact discriminate against natural hairstyles. If they see it to be unfit, unkept, unprofessional. So, to even be allowed to do that legally, that’s not a people of color issue, you know, that’s Black-specific. So, I had to dive into that with the book. So, I went around campus and uh, just would just keep my eyes open for any Black people who just walked around freely with natural hairstyles, their natural hair all the way out, you know? Who may not believe in that “I'm going to be clean cut because society told me to,” you know, my hair has to be cut off. Yet, I sit in class and see all these other races of people who get to enjoy their hair being as long as they choose to. And they're not assumed to be violent or thug or unkept, you know? So, you could walk around with a ponytail and it wouldn't be seen as anything other than hip. But I let my hair grow, and now society makes a direct connection from me and my natural hair to 1966 Black Panther Party. Just my natural hair alone, I get directly, “Oh, you like a Black Panther?” Why would they do that? You know why? Because the photography that existed in 1966, taking pictures of Black people in Black social movements, they all look like this with their natural hair, the men and the women have the same natural hair. So now, America, hasn't seen that since the sixties, thousands upon thousands. So, you had about twenty-five to twenty-eight million Black people at that point. And for a lot of them to just be walking around naturally, completely, like this, that's a different thing. Because it's like, this group is very different than this group. And it's almost like a highlighter, a notify, you know? And at this point, as you go to the “people of color” term, the term that was used at this point was “Afro-American.” It’s in literature. It’s all over the place at this time. It’s in movies, everywhere. Interviews everything. Because it notified the hair. Afro-American. Well, that since passed and a lot of people went into different hairstyles and different things have changed. So much so that when now I exist, the only correlation is 1966 through the sixties and early seventies is Black Panther Party. So, I get that every day. Can I help change that? Yes. With the book, with the pictures. Particularly discussing hair and how my hair has to always be political. My hair has to always have a law. My hair has to always fit into the scheme of the society as they make the rules. So, we had to fully discuss this hair regulation policy, because it doesn't just exist with that one employer for that one Supreme Court rule in an Eleven Circuit Court. This happens at every, it happens here. It happens when I go to job interviews, you know, I've been asked to cut my hair before and I just didn't work at that place, you know? It's a little different for me. What if I wanted to get a job that requires hats like an officer or, you know, a firefighter, baseball player. The hats are not made for me and my hair. That hats are made for the “standard” American. You know, if your hair lays down in a particular pattern, then a hat doesn't change anything as far as your hair. Well, if I were a size seven hat with my hair low, that changes with my hair longer. It may not change as much as you because your hair would press down and it wouldn't be, you know, wouldn't be messed up. Anything like that. Well, it's different for me or if I'm the only sector of society, that's going to have such a significant difference in that manner. The rules didn't change for me and for Black people. So, just trying to help point out some of these things, you know, with the books and with the photography. So, that’s why I said it can work in both ways. You’re uplifting Black people and then you’re throwing it in the face of everybody else. “Hey, this is who we are. This is what we look like. I'm born this way,” you know? So, this is supposed to be the era of “inclusion.” That's one of the newest words being used in the last two or three summers. “Inclusivity.” “Equity.” And all of these things. Those sound good. And you know, people may have the best intent. But how inclusive are you? If you're asking me to cut my hair, how inclusive are you? If you accept Black people, when their hair is straight, you know, processed. You accept that version. But that same Black woman, if she comes with a hair natural, it's a problem. So much is a problem that many Black women get unrecognized when they come to work one week with their hair pressed and they come to work two or three months later with their hair like mine. “Oh, I thought we had a new coworker. I didn't recognize you.” You know, this happens every day. If I cut my hair right now, I guarantee you, I come to school next semester. Some people will—" ; Oh, I didn't realize that was you.” Because my face changed (laughs) due to my hair. You know, so, uh, being that our hair has seen is so negative and the negativity comes from the connection to the Black Power Movement throughout the sixties and seventies. So, one of the things, one of the greatest things is our bodies need to be seen as human and as positive. So, the photography about the hair includes that as well, you know? See us happy, we're on campus, we're students, you know, we're coworkers. You need to get used to seeing us in our natural form, how we are. So, the people who may hate or have a disdain for those images, that's a part of them seeing this as well. So, this is what it would do to people who are not Black and then uplift the people who are Black. So, we can kind of, you know, create some social change. So, you could be a little more uncomfortable with seeing a person that looks like me, because you’ve seen it. So, if I'm in a commercial, if I'm in that standard photo at Walmart, if I'm on the school website, you know. If my sister's here, my mother's on this. And we see Black people in films that are also teachers, that also work in the library, that also police officers. So, it becomes accepted. And now I don't have such a, you know, a shocking response. When I see a person like me. There's so many people are shocked by me walking around school. I'm in elevators, going up steps with people. And I keep getting that. The startled response from so many students just because of my hair, that's it. So, we can help change some of these things. Visintainer: Um, to come back a little bit to people that are unseen. So, if you're looking for people that are on the verge of not being interested in being photographed and you're looking for people that are generally unseen. How do you go about convincing people to be seen? Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: If they're used to not being seen (Northington laughs), and maybe comfortable not being seen. Or maybe they're uncomfortable with it, but that's kind of what they expect? Northington: So, I mean, that becomes the work. So, it can't be easy. You know, if you want to do something easy, then I'll just take pictures of people who want to, you know? And then for me, that's not the right energy to go about it or to make the change. They want to be seen. Okay. Yeah. You know, then they're already showing themselves. So, it's not, to me, that's not a fix. So, now when dealing with a person that may be more reluctant to do that. It's not that I want to convince them. It's that I sit down and have the conversation. Let's think about ten years from now. If you make this decision, how will this affect you for ten years and ten years looking back, you know? Would you have been proud of this? You know, then I tell them my purpose for doing it, you know? Similar to some of these responses. Look at commercials, look at magazines. What do you involve yourself in on a daily basis? If you’re watching your social media, what do the ads look like? What are your favorite films? What’s your favorite music? So, look at the—already imagery of yourself. If you had the opportunity to make it positive, because, you know, there’s so much talk about these people do this to us. This group oppresses us this way. Those are true. So, what if I’m giving one small opportunity to go against that. To improve it? If my son, my daughter, my granddaughter, my great-granddaughter was able to see this great imagery of, you know, their great-grandfather or something. It uplifts them as a child. So, I can start that off from the beginning. And you are already fighting against some of the negativities against you from the beginning. So, what happens today? A lot of Black people are looking back to pictures of the Harlem Renaissance. Looking back at those, you know, Gordon Parks photos. This the, uh, what is this? Another woman, uh, [Carrie] Mae Weems, she--her photos as well. So, you have something to look back to something, to aspire to. All these images of Barack Obama, Michelle Obama. All these images of Jay-Z and Beyonce, all these, you know, you have these images to look forward to, to uplift you. You may even make some type of connection, and you can see a little bit of yourself in it, because it represents you a lot more than looking at the, uh, the Statue of Liberty or the Mount Rushmore, you know? Those are like things that are unattached to your culture or to your soul in a way, if you would see own people, you know, we have the Caesar Chavez statue on campus. Everybody probably generally understands that that's okay, it's a mark on the campus. What Caesar Chavez stands for, you know, the rights of migrant workers and all of those things. But then I would say there's another aspect of people who look at that in a different way than even I do. But in other peoples they see more self-representation, more our people work for something. And then there's a different connection. So, we can do that with statues. With imagery. So, I explain this to some of these people and then they make a decision off of that. Then some of them go, “Okay, you know what? I do want to do this.” And then they may have already told themselves they want to be seen, but they don't get the opportunity. They want to be included, but they don't get the opportunity, and they don't have the persona or the, you know, or the personality to kind of say, “Hey, you know, I like to take pictures and do this.” So, I get to now become the conduit for that. And then some of the people go, “No, that's not my arena.” And then I have to take that. But I'd rather deal with it in that way than the person screaming. “Take pictures of me, take pictures of me.” So that's kind of how it goes. Jake Northington talks about the importance of Black representation in real life, in art, and in the media. He explains how there is a lack of Black representation in all aspects of life, such as commercial art, natural hair and hair products, the wedding business, sports, and film and television. Northington also describes how he views his photography and the importance of documenting the Black community and social issues. Additionally, he discusses the politics behind Black hair and the term, “person of color.” American black history ; Anti-Black racism ; Black Hair ; Black people in art--Photography ; Black representation in art ; Black representation in media ; Obama, Barack ; Obama, Michelle ; Photography ; Racial discrimination, 2656 Personal philosophy of art/ Commerical art vs. personal art Visintainer: Thank you. Have you seen your kind of personal philosophy in relation to your art evolve over time? Northington: Yes. Yes. Uh, but the first idea of doing it from the hair perspective opened up so many other lanes, because then it goes, this is happening against Black people in society. So, let me walk down that and see how I can place that in images to where people can see the image and I don't have to put words on the paper, you know? Tell the story without putting the words on the paper. And then it opens up another lane, another lane. So, I would say the involvement, the evolving of it comes from the first stance of looking at the hair situation. The involvement came from that, and then it's just, this is happening, this is happening. Also, I'm in sociology classes, you know, I'm in a Black feminist thought class. Talk about Dr. Walkington. And I'm in a Black communities class. Talk about Dr. Muhammad. So, we're talking about the aspects of Black immigration, the aspects of over sexual sexualizing Black women, you know? Things like this, more avenues. Now I can use that in the photography and help try to curve some of those negativities. So, it just continues to just go out and go out and go out. And more ideas are just constantly popping up. So, that would add to the evolving measure. And then these are open doors for me to take photography of so many other people, you know? So once the photos get posted online or other people post the photo, I took it in and tagged. Then now I'll get a message saying, “Hey, can you take pictures of me at my birthdays coming up? I have my 22nd birthday. Me and my friends, can you come take--” then that'll happen. And then from that, I had two different companies go, “Oh, hey, we have an event, uh, company that we constantly do events, ten or twenty a year. Are you available to take events for our-- take photos for our events?” So, I have one company I've been taking event photos for three years and another one for a year. And then, so it just keeps going and going and going. And then that adds for a lot of practice. Because I'm getting different lighting situations, indoor, outdoor, overhangs, you know, candlelit lights, you know? So everything's a little different. So, it allows for a lot of practice to do the actual photography that I'm passionate in. So, that's kind of some of the involvement. Visintainer: Okay. So, you've got a commercial aspect to what you're doing then. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: And you talk a little bit about how you utilize that to grow your personal art. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: What are some of the things that don't translate when you're doing commercial photography to your artistic side? Northington: Um, we're not really attacking any particular social issue when we're doing commercial art, so it's more, “Let’s enjoy life.” The commercial art becomes more about enjoying life. Like, okay, it's the time to fight against, you know, injustices, it's the time to sit down and do your work and it's the time to enjoy life. So, and the commercial art tends to just, you know, live in that arena. Let's enjoy life, let's have fun. But that also still becomes a correction because it used to be illegal for Black people to get together and hang out, you know? You have the slave codes of Virginia, 1684, they have slave codes and you can’t congregate, you know? South Carolina has some of the same slave codes and many of these things were supposed to be overturned and go out the window after the Civil War. Well, you know, those people still had jobs. So, whether the law changed or not, they still had jobs. So, they still kind of continue some of these practices. And this is where we see like a stop-and-frisk comes into play to where New York City police are growing up, stopping-and frisking can five or six Black dudes standing together. So, we can't even be together, you know? There used to be a time where you could buy a house and have a party. Well, since I've been in California, those things seem to be illegal. You can't even have a party at your apartment. Can't have a party at your house. You can't even congregate and have fun. So now people are forced to go rent out, you know, spaces and hotels and ballrooms. You got to rent out of space, pay a few thousand dollars to get people, to show up and party and have fun and then still pay for parking and all these things. It wasn't like this in the nineties. In the nineties, you lived in a place that you pay rent. You can have a party. Well, those things are like illegal now. People just call the cops. You go, no partying allowed. You know, this is even on some paperwork when you go get an apartment: no parties. Some paperwork, for Homeowners Association of that house: no parties. So, I’m an adult, I’m a human, I can't party. Because I choose to. I have to go to a club. I have to rent out a ballroom, you know? So, for Black people in particular, we need to be able to enjoy life as well with all of these stressors, you need to be able to enjoy life. So, even though this is commercial art, for some of these companies, these people are having fun and are having fun together, which is something that's not promoted. They'll show us fighting together, but not so much of us having fun together. So, there's no balance of that. So, in that aspect of thinking, I get to help provide some balance to showing Black people, enjoying each other, having fun. And then go back home to their kids, their wives, their husbands, and their jobs and school and all of that. But they come together and congregate to have fun and we never get to see it. So. Jake Northington discusses how his classes on sociology and Black feminism have further developed his personal philosophy on art and photography. He also explains the differences between his commercial art and his personal art. His commercial art encapsulates the philosophy of enjoying life. Due to stop-and-frisk policies and house party break-ups by the police, Northington understands the importance of capturing the Black community’s celebrations through photography. Activism & ; Advocacy ; African Americans--California--San Diego County--History ; American black history ; California State University San Marcos ; Commercial photography ; Photography ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Students 3004 Working with Black community organizations Visintainer: When it comes to your subjects for your photography, um, are there anything that you look for in particular? You've mentioned that you look for people that are--I guess maybe, you've already answered this. That you look for people that are unseen. You look for people that are reticent, to be photographed. But are there anything else that you look for in your subjects? Northington: Yes. I also look for Black community organizations or Black on-campus organizations. So, I've taken pictures for the Black faculty and staff, you know, because they have to have it. You should have photos out there. The Black Student Union, the Black Student Center, you know? There's a Black fraternity here, Omega Psi Phi. Black sorority here, Sigma Gamma Rho. And I've taken pictures for all of them because they should have the photos out there, you know? If we're not seen on campus and people pretend like we're not here. So, we're supposedly like 2.1, 2.2 percent of this campus. And you know, and that seems to be the trend all throughout the CSU, you know? There's maybe two: Dominguez Hills and Cal State Long Beach in L.A. They're in a particular area where there's a high concentration of Black people right there in L.A. So, they have a little higher of a number. The rest of the CSU is right around two percent, three percent. So, with that, we're not so much in a propaganda photography in videos at those campuses. Knowing that coming in, I want to particularly take pictures of these Black groups. So, I'll offer my services to all of these Black groups and take pictures of any events that they're doing, any tabling that they're doing and stuff like. So, I have done that here and that's a part of the focus, too. So, to make sure they're supported in that way and, you know, and they can continue on because other than that--because you do an event here and the process is you go to office communication or go to a newspaper you can request photographers to come. And then sometimes they come and they stay for two minutes, take one or two pictures and they leave. And then for me that's not enough, you know? They did their job, they did what they were supposed to do. They got the one or two pictures they're supposed to get and they left. So, they did what they're supposed to do. But for me, that's not enough. For us, it's not enough. Because we're not being represented properly. So, we need to change that. So, when they do their events and sometimes, you know, these different Black organizations ask me to come do the photography, I'll go do it. No charge, just do the event, edit the photos, put them out there. Even make some little slideshows of them and stuff like this. So, and that's led to me doing the old people's luncheon, some Halloween parties, and stuff like that on campus for even other organizations that are not Black particular. But this stuff now lasts forever. , it's amazing. This is 2019, but if somebody's not here, particularly taking pictures of Black people, none of this happened. Everybody's living off memories, you know? That's stuff that was done for people that graduated in [19]79 or [19]82 as a Black group of people. They're talking about the memories of what we went through in four or five years of college. How is that still a thing? Because if nobody's pointing them out and going, “We need to capture this on video on film,” that this happened, they did this, they did this, they did this, you know? The biggest thing here was when we got the Black students in the spring of 2017, and then you have three students who really made the biggest push. So, the ASI [Associated Students Incorporated (student government)] President at that time was Tiffany Boyd. Then you have Jamaéla Johnson and then you have Akilah Green. All three of them were ASI and they made a huge push for us to get the Black Student Center as we needed. And this was a time that all of these Black people were being shot on TV. And, so, this was a very important need for Black students on campus. So, with those three people, we had to make sure they got recognized. So, I took pictures of them. They came for the grand opening. I hope one day that their names and pictures are on the wall in the Center to get their proper due. If that didn't happen, and there's no pictures, it all goes away and there's a history forgotten. So, the photos become documentary automatically. Any photos of Black people almost automatically become a documentary and historical reference points. So that’s another point of keeping all of my photos. When you ask if I keep them. I just get to look back, you know? Even now I’ll look back three years ago when this person was a freshman or whatever. And, you know, it’s like, “Hey, remember this picture, remember this BSU [Black Student Union] meeting, or remember this event,” you know? So. Jake Northington describes his experience photographing Black community organizations and Black on-campus organizations. He explains the importance of documenting Black organizations and individuals in order to help them be better recognized and preserve their history. While a student at CSUSM, Northington has photographed Black faculty and staff, the Black Student Union, the Black Student Center, the Black fraternity, Omega Psi Phi, and the Black sorority, Sigma Gamma Rho. Northington also explains that although Black students make up about 2.1 or 2.2 % of CSUSM’s student population, they often feel invisible. He hopes his photography will bring more visibility to his community. Associated Students Incorporated ; Black people in art--Photography ; Black Student Center ; Black Student Union ; California State University San Marcos ; Omega Psi Phi Fraternity ; Photography ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority ; Students 3285 Giving guidance to subjects Visintainer: When you're taking your photographs, what guidance do you give your subjects? Northington: To be calm, to try to, like, take away the stress that they have, you know? Because it's almost exercise when you asked about some exercising, some positive things to kind of--because this, this also helps me, you know? This has becomes a tool of, uh, I mean, some people will call it a yoga, mental yoga, or a relaxation technique. Because just being able to take a picture of Black people and it makes them feel good. It makes me feel good. So, you know, you get to keep pushing that positive energy back into Black people. Because they need it just as much as anybody. So, if nobody's going to be particular to help pull up Black people, I'm not going to sit around and fuss about it. What aspect can I add to it? So, I'll continue to do that. So, it can help them as well, you know? Especially those people who are more quiet and shy and then they go, “Oh, this person wanted to put me in their book or wanted to put me in their video,” and that can help change them and, and it help them grow and help them feel good about themselves so I could help them. They could help me. So that's the way I take it. Jake Northington discusses the guidance he provides to his subjects. Specifically, he stresses the importance of staying calm during their photography sessions. Northington also aims to “push positivity” onto his subjects. Black people in art--Photography ; Photography ; PHOTOGRAPHY / Subjects & ; Themes / Portraits 3382 Satisfying moments in Northington’s work Visintainer: Can you tell me about a particularly satisfying moment in your photography? (Northington laughs) Something that really, really made you, you know--I think you get a lot of joy out of it in general. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: But something that really made you go “Well, I'm so happy to be doing what I'm doing?” Northington: Uh, well, a lot of these photos in the books, especially the Black women's book, I printed out maybe seventy, eighty of these photos on a large canvas of like twenty-four by thirty-six. And I did a thing last year where I printed all these out on steel frames and some of them were on canvas and I gave these out to people or gave them to their mothers and to their grandmothers. And that was probably the most satisfying thing because you don't normally see people from a socioeconomic deprivation to be, to make a jump, to have something that may be considered expensive artwork of their own in their house. So, imagine walking in your house and having your own huge portrait on metal, on steel, on the wall, and every time your family comes over, “Look, this is my daughter in college. Look, this is my son in college.” And they had the picture taken by somebody on campus. When you would normally have to have enough income enough, you know, throw away money, to go pay for this. And it cost you three or 400 bucks. So, because it cost about 200 bucks for the photo. And then now for the photo photographer services, you might spend 500 dollars for something like that. Just for that joy. Well, I just give it to them and then they got that joy anyway. And they were sitting around talking about it. This one girl had her mother, her father, and her grandparents and her brothers and sisters at this event done by the Black SistaHood. It's another Black organization on campus. And we did a natural hair event last year to particularly talk about our natural hair and how we treated and things we can do to improve, you know. So, and that was a part of it. So, I printed out these huge photos. So, when people walked in, they had a line of all these huge photos of Black men and women in their natural hair, smiling, loving it. And I handed out a lot of these photos at that event and these people with their family and they just loving, they posting it online and everything like. So that right there would probably be the peak, that right there. Jake Northington discusses a few satisfying moments in his work, including gifting photographs on steel frames to mothers and grandmothers of the participants from the Black women’s book, and contributing his own photographs of Black men and women in their natural hair to a natural hair event on campus. Black hair ; Black people in art--Photography ; Photography ; PHOTOGRAPHY / Subjects & ; Themes / Portraits 3524 The most difficult part of the photography process Visintainer: That's cool. What's the most difficult part of the process of photography or creating art for you? Northington: Uh, impatient people (laughs). Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: Yeah, or people that you're trying to communicate with a person to do what you see in your head. That's always difficult, you know? It's almost like telling somebody to draw something out of your head. That's the way I look at it. It's almost that difficult sometimes because you know, people want to sit and stand like, “Okay, roll your shoulders back.” And then they do the same thing. Okay. “Chin down,” Because this is how people take pictures. “Okay, we're going to take your picture.” Okay. “Stand there.” And then people do this, uh, you have to put your chin down, then they do this. Okay. (Visintainer laughs) You know? And then I'm like, “Alright, one millimeter, two millimeters to the left, to the right.” You know, all right. “Don't look at the camera,” and then I'll take the picture. Or when I get ready to take the picture. Okay, “One, two, three,” and then they pop the same pose. Okay. Well, no, we already posed you. Sit still, “All right, let's go.” You know, and people have a--he did it. Shamar did it. He, you know, keep ticking his head to the left when it’s ready. All one, two, three. And then, you know, and I came to find out, a lot of people have a tick like that. Because people get used to taking photos. So, they have like a go-to pose. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So that go-to pose becomes a difficult thing a lot of times. So, that, and I never like it when, if people are not satisfied with the photo. So, there’s some photos that I put in the books that I really love and other people love them, you know, from the studios and everything. But then that person in the photo didn’t particularly like that one. So, we’ll take thirty or forty and I’ll ask them to choose. And then I’ll tell them the one I like. “You pick two or three and I’ll tell you one I like.” Hopefully they’re the same, but in some cases it’s not the same. And then they’re not as satisfied as I am. So, I don’t like that part either. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: But, it's a part of the process. So. Jake Northington discusses the difficulty with communicating with subjects during photography shoots. Black people in art--Photography ; Photography ; Photography & ; the creative process ; PHOTOGRAPHY / Subjects & ; Themes / Portraits ; Photography--Techniques 3645 Northington’s books Visintainer: Um, so you published two books of photography. The first book was inspired by the question of hair. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: The representation of hair. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: Uh, what was the second book’s (unintelligible)? Northington: The second book is of Black men. So, the negative characterizing of Black men has always been thugs and criminals. Well, we have all these Black men here on this campus going to school that are not student athletes. They're students, you know? So, they need to be recognized as being students. So, there's plenty of Black men that have graduated from college. That's not what you see on TV. You don't see a college graduate Black man on TV, in a commercial that we know that's what it is. The representation is always a sport, you know? (laughs) Music, you know? It's pretty, after that, it gets thin, you know? So, uh, you can be a comedian, it's entertainment, and it's entertainment-based mostly, you know? And if that's the eighty percent, the ninety percent, maybe even a hundred percent of what you're going to encompass, it's hard to see them as anything else. So, this determines a lot of how we treat people. If I only see Black men represented that way, but then I go home, nobody's --and my home's Black. I'm not Black. I live in a community that's not Black. And my only visual of Black men is all this negative stuff. That's going to play on my comfortability or how I treat them. So now I come to Cal State San Marcos, I get in the elevator and I see a dude like this. I may be a little disheveled. So, if we can change some of those things, because we can, and put out the positive imagery of Black men, then these things can start to, you know, disappear. So, with that in mind, when I did the book for the Black man, again, I want people with all different hairstyles or all different natural hairstyles. But I told them not to smile because I need you to be able to be accepted for having a straight, comfortable face. I'm just sitting in a class like this, or I'm just in my Uber, or I'm just, you know, at the ATM machine. You shouldn't have to smile, dance, and entertain to be accepted. And those are aspects of vaudeville, ragtime, USA, you know? You can be accepted by this society, entertaining people as a Black man, but can you be accepted when you don't entertain? When you just live life? And that's why we have these, social things that are happening such as barbecuing while Black, driving while Black, shopping while Black. These things occur so much because of how other people view Black men, Black women, Black children. And then you're already castigated and put into the box of criminal or not American, but other American. So, you viewed a certain way. Therefore, you're treated a certain way. And then this causes stress on both ends. So now the stress is building up on us and then the stress is building up on anybody on the other side. And then now it clashes when you get to a campus, when you get to a work environment and you have this wall up on both sides. Well, that doesn't make well for society. And it doesn’t do well for people’s mental health and spiritual health, especially the people on the end receiving all the negativity. So, we can help change some of these things. So, if I'm not the one causing the racism on myself, I'm not the one that needs to make the correction. So, the people viewing this and see these Black men, not smiling, being themselves, looking like me, looking like him, looking like all different aspects of Black men. And you get to view this in a book. They're all students, they're all at this university. They all go unseen. So, let’s put this out here. So now when you see this, it forms now, “Okay, this is a little different than the rapper I saw on TV. This is a little different than the guys I see being chased by the cops.” So, I have to give you another element. So, it allows for some change, but people still have to make that choice themselves. So, that's the point for that one. Visintainer: And then you have a third book you're working on? Northington: Yes. And then the third book of this series, this is a series of books. The third book is called, “WE ARE,” and it's going to show the Black men and Black women together on campus doing regular life, you know? Studying, having fun, telling jokes, you know? Walking to their cars, walking to class, you know? Hanging out in the library, all different things, eating together, congregating, just enjoying each other's company. Because again, that's something we don't see propagated by the country, you know? There's a select few, you'll get, you know? If there's a people of color seminar, you know? There's an African American scholarship, then you'll see the commercial art for that be Black people smiling. So, it's not, it doesn't change the standard. That's a particular thing for a particular group of people. And it, you know, it's almost commodified in that way. I want to include us in the standard. So, including us in the standard becomes the change. So, I would look at it in that, in that realm. Visintainer: Do you have a, um, do you have a project after your next project? Are (unintelligible)? Northington: Yes. So as soon as I made the second book, I automatically thought I could just do a bunch of series. So, with this third book completing this series-- also, I did mention before, I think, I maybe told you on the side--all three books, I envisioned them already before I did them. So, I said, “I'm going to make another element to this.” So, the books have the photography and I have a passage in the front of the book that explains the purpose of the book. And then every book has its own title, which I explained on the first page. Then the final page of every book has the thank yous of everybody that we included that gave you the energy to the book. And the thank yous are translated into a different African language. So, with each book, you're going to learn a little bit of a different African language. Now, all three titles of the book in a series complete one sentence. So, the first book is called, “Solar Amalgamations.” The second book is called, “HUEMAN.” And the third book is called, “WE ARE.” And the whole sentence is rearranged: “We are solar amalgamations.” Well, “We are hueman [human] solar amalgamations.” And that generally means, “We are stars,” you know? We're carbon-based human beings. So, this is the carbon-based world. So, and then the human part, I spell “H-U-E-M-A-N” you know? Denoting the shade or the “hue.” Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, “We are human solar amalgamations.” And that completes that trio. After that, there's another book series I'm doing on older Black people that work on campus and things like this. So, I'm particularly looking for fifty [years old] and up, you know? So, and then another series is going to be on Black families and it's going to go on and on and on and on and keep going with that. So, this sparked just a different--and I can, I think I'm going to do this by just (unintelligible), and I'll be able to keep adding more series. So, and that's what that's going to do. So, and then this third book should be out. I want it to be done now, but people’s schedules, it's always tough. The more people that are in the photos, it gets tougher. So, it was a little easier to do the first two books because it was individuals. And then I could put it together in a week or something after I got all the photos, I spent one week putting the whole book together. But we groups. So, these photos are going to be done in groups. It's going be at least two people in every photo. And I’m trying to get some photos of six and seven and twelve people, you know? To add to that, the aspect of us together, “WE ARE,” that's the title. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: So, it should show us together. So, it may take a little longer than I thought and it may not come out into the spring. So. Visintaier: That’s a lot of scheduling direct. Northington: Yeah, yeah. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: And I have to be the most free because I have to work with everybody else's schedule. So Jake Northington describes the themes of his three books. His first book, “Solar Amalgamations,” illustrates the representation of hair. His second book, “HUEMAN,” tackles representing Black men in a positive light. His third book, “WE ARE,” represents Black men and women congregating together on CSUSM’s campus. Together, the book series creates the sentence, “We are hueman [human] solar amalgamations.” At the time of the interview, Northington was planning two other book series on older Black individuals who work on campus and on Black families. African American men ; Anti-Black racism ; Art books collection ; Black men ; Black representation in media ; Books ; Classification--Books--Photography ; Modern photography books ; Photography ; Racial discrimination 4150 Recent art projects and exhibitions Visintainer: I think that's all of the questions that I had. Northington: Okay. Visintainer: Was there anything that I should have asked you about that I didn't? Northington: The recent recognition that's happening that never happened. I've been here going on my fourth year, as I said. And when I spoke about people being invisible, that includes me as well. So, I had to sit back and watch my fellow students that are in class with me, get their work recognized every year, every semester, over and over, you know? People that ask for my help or people that I ask for help. We're all in the same class. And you know, there's a nursing program, they all go to the same classes. There’s sociology, they all-- same thing with art. We're all in the same classes, especially in my student discipline, art and technology, we're all in the same classes. So, to see some of those students get their work put out or get recognized or see their work, you know, in different areas on campus or whatever I say, “Okay, this is how this works.” So, it doesn't stop. It doesn't turn off. So now, you know, you just come here and then you see the work in the, in the art-- it all just linked up. The students in the art department that put on the exhibit, the art juncture, you know, they reached out because a few of my art professors let them know. So, all of those pieces kind of came together at once. So, you know, I did old people's luncheon, I did photography for them, did their programs and all these other things. This all happened in one month. That part, the school newspaper reached out to me and did an interview and they put it in a newspaper and they posted my photos. Another group of people for Art Equals Opportunity that they work in a--in the San Diego area using art to help students, you know, learn the lessons of English, you know, history, science, and everything. But using the conduit of art, they posted me on their website. All of this happened in the same month. And then you walk in, you know? And your coworker sees the work and then we meet to do this. And all, all of this just happened at once. That's just that. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: Then the last, last week I submitted some of these photos to, ah, Lycoming College. It’s in, uh, Pennsylvania. It’s in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. And there was this huge national search for all Black art for their exhibit called “Blurred Expectations.” That’s open now. It just opened today. Everybody across the country submitted. Somebody that knew me said, “Hey, you should submit your stuff to this.” I submitted it. Boom, immediately. They was like, “Yes, it’s in.” So, once this exhibit ended here, the very next day, I had to take it down and ship it. Visintaier: Yeah. Northington: Uh, to Williamsport, Pennsylvania. And it’s up right now in their exhibit. And then ASI, the ASI student government here, just accepted one of my pieces for that art project. So, within two months, this semester, all of the work I've been doing for years, you know? Some of this book is 2017. This book is 2018., you know? And I'm currently doing--so these things are year, two years old, after I watch all of my, you know, fellow students be recognized. All of mine is coming right here in two months. So that's, you know, that's been a big change. So. Visintainer: Yeah. Well, congratulations. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: How long is the exhibition in Virginia up for? Northington: Until the beginning of February. So, they got a couple of months. Yeah. I think it’s right at two and a half months. Something like that. Yeah. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: No, the end of November. All of December. All of January. Yeah. So, it's right at like two and a half months. Think they got like eight week-- Visintainer: (both talking at once) Is there going to— Northington: (both talking at once) --be six week, ten weeks, something like that. Visintainer: Is there going to be a digital component to it? Northington: Well, they've been posting videos and uh, you know, tagging all of the artists in it and everything like that. And they made--they made a social media page, they made an Instagram page. So that's how everybody's keeping up who's not in their area at that school. And it's like a huge four-year private institution. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: That costs like ten times as much as this school to go to. So, it’s-- and it was a national search. So, it's-- it is, it is good to add to, ah, you know, to a resume for something like that. So, I mean (laughs). Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: You know, it's like on my way out the door, I have all these résumé items now that didn't exist before, you know? Even though I've done so much work on this campus going unrecognized, but it's now, it's now all happening right now at the perfect time. So. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: I can appreciate that. So, uh, and I also wanted to mention all the supporters that helped over this time. So, Miss Ariel Stevenson from the Office of Inclusive Excellence. Uh, Mrs. Marilyn McWilliams, Office of Inclusive Excellence, Dr. Sharon Elise, you know? These are people who supported me from the beginning to now. No holds barred, you know? They even got a little flack, you know, at times, because I'm not as accepted as everybody else. So, you know, they've asked me to do different projects on campus. They supported, they came to all of the events, you know? We established another club on campus: The Black SistaHood to encompass all these elements I spoke about, about photography, my photography, Black-specific, and how it assist in helping us get through this society and try to make some things positive where we turn that into a student club and organization. So, that's why I have this. That's why wore this sweater for this interview. So no, and this is more pushing love for people, you know? Loving each other, breaking through some of these stereotypes and turning these negatives into positives and becoming, you know, great people in life. So, and a lot of that's going to be exemplified in the third book, in the, “WE ARE” book, you know? So, uh, been a part of Black Student Union since I've been here, you know? Some--there was some people in the sorority, Black sorority and Black fraternity, Sigma Gamma and Omega Psi Phi, a few, there's a few individuals that supported me and helped as well. And then the Black Student Center itself has been the hub for all of this. So once that was established and created, it allowed me a centered space because before I had to walk around the entire campus, like loop every building and hang out during every U-hour, whether I had class or not. And just try to like find people. So that's what I had to do before. And it's like the people out here right now, “Are you registered to vote? Are you registered to vote?” I was one of those people. With my camera and no book because the book is not made yet. So, I'm out here with a printed sheet of paper. “Hey, would you like to take a photo for my project?” And this-- and that was not as, you know, as presenting, you know, as to walk up with an already made book. So, once I got the first book, I got more yeses. Once I had two books, I got--you know, so the yeses come a lot easier. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: So, having the, the Black Student Center here, I get the crowd now. So now I have more people to choose from and it's just so much easier to do it now than it was, you know, in 2016, when I started the first book. So, it's a lot easier now. So, that may--that may be it. And uh, as long as you using the terminology " ; Black,” because I don't, I don't use “African American” or “people of color.” Northington talks about feeling invisible among his own classmates at CSUSM. At the time of the interview, however, Northington began receiving recognition for his work, and he discusses being invited to events, working with Associated Students, Inc (ASI), and exhibiting his work at Lycoming College. Art exhibitions ; Associated Students Incorporated ; Black Student Center ; Black Student Union ; California State University San Marcos ; Lycoming College, Williamsport, Pa. ; Omega Psi Phi Fraternity ; Photography ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority ; students ; The Black SistaHood 4588 Conclusion/ Current CSUSM projects Visintainer: Yeah Northington: So, while y'all printing this, any, any printing that has to be done uh-- Vistintainer: I'll, I'll send you any verbiage that we do. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: And then that way you can look it over and-- Northington: Okay, okay. Visintainer: Correct me, if I'm making a mistake. Northington: (laughs) Well, you know, it's not a mistake for other people, but for me that, you know, it just doesn't work for me. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: So, that might be it. And then shout out to the, the people who are coming behind me, you know, Shamar. We got (unintelligible) Williams. She's been working with me the most here. So, she's a senior now and she's in my same major field: visual performing arts. And she's helped a lot over the last year because I've been just forcing her and pushing her to do her photos, to do her artwork, you know? And then as I mentioned with Gordon Parks, this isn't one element, like I told you before, the photo is just one thing that I've done on this campus. So, I make these shirts, I make these logos, these designs, you know? So, all of the BSU gear you've seen, all of the Black Student Center gear you've seen for the most part, all the Black SistaHood, Black Brotherhood, you know, Transitions Collective. I did some logos for them. Project Rebound, I'm designing a logo for them right now. So, there's so many elements to the artwork that I produced on campus. So, and I've done about four or five, like a components--we just saw the art exhibit. But then I already did two exhibits here in the library and we're working on the third with the art department right now on sustainability. So, I have an art project, uh, a water art project that's going to be in sustainability, you know? If that happens in the spring, that's still talking about that. I did a sustainability project with ASI about straws. And this was right before they banned straws on this campus. We were trying to make a push to get rid of straws and how this affected the aquatic life. And we, you know, we created like a sea turtle with a straw in his mouth and shows how this kind of messes them up. So, uh, spent a lot of things like that on campus. So, I just want to make sure it's not just photography. Visintainer: Sure. Northington: I would say it's art and I'm sure you understand that it's art and, but this part is the photography, but there's so much more that I've been a part of on campus than that. And now I want the next group of people like Shamar to come along and continue it. Because if I--you know, once I leave it's over, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't end. It should be fifteen, twenty more people. So, I try to do my part and help them learn the right avenues, meet some people, you know? That's why I asked them to come and be here and to see a different process, you know? " ; Okay, this is where I started. And then I could do this, this, this, this, this.” They can do the same thing I'm doing, you know? It's not, it's not that special. You have to do the work, you know? You have your vision, you have what, your passion and then you need to do the work. And you'll get everything that you want out of it. So. And that's, that's probably all I got right there. Visintainer: Alright. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: Well, thank you, Jake. Northington: (both talking at once) No problem. Visintainer: (talking at once) I really appreciate you coming by and chatting with us. Northington: Make sure we see, uh- Visintainer: Yes. Northington: The women that I love. And then the men’s book. And the third book will be coming soon. Visintainer: Alright. Northington: Alright. Visintainer: Thank you, sir. Jake Northington concludes the interview by acknowledging his mentees. He also discusses other projects he is involved with on campus, such as designing shirts and logos for Black student organizations, curating exhibits in the library, and working on sustainability initiatives with ASI and the art department. Associated Students Incorporated ; Black Brotherhood ; Black Student Center ; Black Student Union ; California State University San Marcos ; Photography ; Project Rebound ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Students ; Sustainability ; The Black SistaHood ; Transitions Collective Oral history Jake Northington is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his degree in Photography in 2019. In this interview, Jake discusses his artistic influences, the importance of Black representation in his photography, and his involvement in CSUSM’s Black Student Center and the Black SistaHood. Sean Visintainer: This is Sean Visintainer and I' ; m interviewing Jake Northington as part of the Cal State San Marcos University Archive' ; s Oral History Project. The interview took place on Friday, November 22nd, 2019 at the University Library, California State University San Marcos. Jake, thank you very much for talking with us today. I thought we' ; d start off by talking about some of your formative years, especially how they relate to your passion for photography. So, I wanted to ask you a few questions about your childhood and early adult life. And I wanted to start off just by asking, where were you born? Jake Northington: That I don' ; t know the answer to. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, I grew up as an orphan and I lived in many cities, many states. Uh, I' ; ve seen a couple of birth certificates. So, not really sure, but, I grew up in East St. Louis, Illinois. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: That' ; s why I grew up. Visintainer: So you grew up in East St. Louis. Was there any ways in which your childhood or your upbringing influenced your photography? Northington: Uh, yes. I would say yes. You know, uh, if you' ; ve ever heard of a guy by the name of Gordon Parks. So throughout the fifties and sixties, he photographed the civil rights movement and a lot of activists socially. So, seeing those type of pictures and watching movies produced by Spike Lee and other people through Black films, they would use a lot of still shots to enter into the movie or to exit out of the movie. So, the beginning and the ending to bookcase the movies, they would show a lot of still shots from Gordon Parks. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: You know, so that was probably the first time I saw images like that and the images Gordon Parks takes in particular of Black people living everyday life, you know? So, and that introduced me to other photographers that particularly took pictures of Black people that you would never see that I wouldn' ; t see in magazines or on TV or anything like that. So. Visintainer: And when you say he took pictures of Black people living everyday life, are there any images that you recall that really stand out to you? Northington: Yes. Uh, he has a picture of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King smiling together at a banquet function. And it is like [19]66 or [19]67. And these are two people that have polarizing views of what Black people should do in America socially. So, you have one guy who wants to fully work with the system and you have one guy who wants to fully oppose the system. So, you have two different dynamics at play from the same, uh, atmosphere from the same starting point growing up at the same time yet they have two different ways of going about it. And then you see these people cordial and friendly. So that' ; s an amazing picture for people in the Black community to see that you can have opposing views and still work for the same progression of your people. So. Visintainer: Okay. Thank you. Did he take pictures as well of less famous Black people? Northington: Yes. Yes, because that' ; s, again, the start. So, from the research, it seems that he took a lot of pictures of jazz musicians. He even did short films himself, you know? So it was all encompassing. He became more famous for the photography, but he also did films. I believe he wrote a book as well. And, uh, so it' ; s, it' ; s a little, you know, all-encompassing to produce an entire artwork with the varying degrees and various wrinkles. So, it' ; s not just one avenue and that' ; s kind of the way I take my artwork, because photography' ; s just one element of it. I didn' ; t start off taking pictures. I started off drawing pictures. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, I draw still and that' ; s still the basis of it all is drawing. So, I would consider taking pictures, just drawing with the camera. Visintainer: Alright. So when did you make the transition from drawing into photography? Northington: Just three years ago, in one class here at this school. I took a--it' ; s a digital photography class taught by Nancy diBenedetto. She' ; s in the Navy and she was an adjunct professor at that moment. I don' ; t know if that may be in her second or third year teaching here. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, in, uh, she thought I took pretty good pictures. So she gave me a few pointers. She kind of showed us a lot of stuff in the class. You know, we did so many field trips to go to different arenas. We went to farms, we went to parks and, you know, on campus and she put us everywhere. And then we went to see an photography exhibit downtown at Balboa Park they had a photography exhibit and the whole class had to go there. So, to see the photos you take and then be able to compare them to professional photography. It gives you, you know, something to look for or it allows you to see things you could correct yourself, you know? So, and that' ; s how I kind of see photography, you making your own corrections, you know? And then if you' ; re satisfied, then it' ; s a good photo for you. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: Because they can all be looked at so differently. So, that' ; s how hard is. Visintainer: Was it intimidating when you first started out comparing yourself to people in exhibitions? Northington: Not at all, not at all because I' ; m a person that always went to art museums. I went to plenty of exhibitions prior to this class, you know? Art is my whole world. So, I see everything as art: cars, clothes, shoes, a pencil, you know? I used to play with my mechanical pencils and take them apart, put them back together to see how it was put together, why they chose these colors, why they have the writing on it, you know? And for me, all of that is art because somebody with an artistic mind had to design your mechanical pencil, your eraser, your--your steering wheel on your car. So, it all plays a part. So, I wouldn' ; t consider my stuff in a comparison measure to be less than it' ; s just, this is the way I see it. That' ; s the way they see it. There' ; s two different eyes behind the camera. So, I wouldn' ; t do that, but I' ; d look at their work and see like, " ; Okay, there' ; s more clarity here, there' ; s more depth." ; There' ; s more layers to their photography versus me taking a picture of a person. And there' ; s just a wall in the background. There' ; s no layers. So, I would be able to get some type of a scope of these are other things that are possible with the photos and then talking about the mood of the person. Can I really see the mood? I got more of that from watching modeling shows, you know? Of how your eyes can give away a smile or your eyes can give away a frown without the facial expression. So, then I have to input that into the photo. And now I' ; m trying to communicate that with the person in the photo to get the look I' ; m looking for. So, you know, it' ; s a little bit of elements all over the place to put it all together. Visintainer: Okay. And do you started off with drawing, so I' ; m assuming that your experience and your learning as you started off with drawing, transferred into photography pretty well as well, but I was curious, were there any specific lessons or techniques that you took from your background in drawing and art that transferred directly into photography? Northington: Yes. The biggest thing I would say is filling up the space. So, before I started taking pictures, I would see a lot of people take pictures on social media and all these other things. I' ; m not a picture person myself. So, I don' ; t just sit down and take pictures of myself or other people. I didn' ; t-- I never did that, but I would do it mentally. So, you know, and you would see a picture or a background mentally before I even had the camera. So, I' ; m already doing it in my head. And then, uh, you know, people would, most people do it. They go, " ; Oh, that' ; s a nice sunset." ; Or, " ; Look at those mountains." ; You' ; re taking a visual picture in your head, you know, and this is why they can sell their painting at Marshalls. You go to Marshalls and you pick up the painting of the canvas of the Carlsbad beach area or the pier in Oceanside. You can sell that because it' ; s a nice visual and you just capture that. And then, uh, I think everybody does that to a different degree. So again, picking up the camera, I' ; ve already had that exercise in my mind. So, from drawing, I got filling up the picture because I started drawing cartoons. So now I come in class and I' ; m taking art class. The professor would say, " ; You have to fill up the background, it' ; s empty," ; you know? You make it too one-dimensional or two-dimensional with no layers. You want to make it pop. You want to make it stand out. You want--so you need to add three, four, five, ten dimensions, whatever. Keep adding layers. So, filling up the whole sheet of paper and making an entire scene is what I took over to the photography side from, from drawing. Visintainer: Okay. And that' ; s interesting. And when you mentioned cartoons, especially, so when I think of cartoons, I think of panels. Northington: Yes. Vistintainer: And I think of you know, word balloons and things that do fill up a panel there. Um, but oftentimes there' ; s real kind of blank or not defined backgrounds. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: Do you try to do something similar with your portraiture, especially? Or do you utilize the backgrounds, uh, in a way that would be maybe different from how--? Northington: I would say it' ; s both and it all depends on the intent of that photo. So, if the intent of that photo includes the background, then I' ; ll make the black background a little more apparent and then if it doesn' ; t, then you kind of shoot an aperture mode to, you know, to fizzle out the background, you know? And that' ; s like a new app on everybody' ; s phone, everybody' ; s shooting in portrait mode on their, on their iPhone and it' ; ll fuzz out the background, you know? So that' ; s, if that' ; s necessary for what I' ; m trying to get across then yes. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: If not, I' ; ll really include the background, you know? Specifically with the photos you' ; ve seen with the sunlight actually being included in the background though, it' ; s ninety-three million miles away so they say. Visintainer: Alright. Um, I think we' ; ve already covered a little bit about your instruction with tutoring, or tutoring that you had as well as your background in art. So, I kind of wanted to move on and ask you kind of in a reverse question, have you taken on any students or mentees yourself? Northington: Yes. Visintainer: Or in, so what advice did you give them? Northington: The same advice I get. And you know, one of the bigger things that probably the number one piece of advice I got from Nancy diBenedetto is just keep taking pictures. You have to make all the mistakes over and over and over and over and over and over. And then next year and I take ten thousand more pictures. I' ; m comparing my pictures now to my pictures, you know? And that' ; s an easier fix and it allows you to grow within yourself versus I' ; m going to compare my pictures to somebody that' ; s already in the magazine shooting for Getty Photos. You don' ; t want to, you know, that' ; s a big jump and you may never get there. And then understanding how much equipment plays a role. You could shoot with a, you know, a Polaroid camera from some convenience store that you got from CVS versus shooting with a $10,000 camera, you know, from Best Buy. That same person is going to produce a different quality of photo just from the equipment alone. So, learning that, you know, uh, learning, setting the background, and implanting the person versus trying to take the person and implant the background, you know? That was a big thing I learned too. So, that' ; s something I teach some people. I have about four or five right now, just picked up a new guy, Shamar. So, I got about four or five students here at school that I kind of help out and assist with all the things that I' ; ve been told. And then I try to help them just develop their own way, you know? Don' ; t take pictures like me, take pictures like you, you know? Don' ; t become a copycat. You see what you saw in it. And I' ; ll just try to help with, you know, technical things, things that may stand out to make this possibly not as good of a picture. But I can' ; t help you with what you saw, what you see, what you want to produce. I don' ; t want to touch that because that' ; s for you. Visintainer: Okay. There were a couple things I wanted to come back to. Um, one of them is you mentioned you got to make the same mistakes over and over and over. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: What are some mistakes in photography that you made over and over and over before realizing--? Northington: Lighting. Visintainer: Lighting? Northington: Lighting. Uh, there' ; s so many small things. There may be twenty-five or thirty things you have to do before you take a picture. And if you forget one of them, you' ; ll be mad once you go to editing, you know? You walk outside, the sunlight is in one space in the sky. If you forget that and throw it out of your mind, then you' ; re going to have a bunch of dark shadows on everybody' ; s face. So, unless that was what you was exactly trying to do, then you kind of threw a lot of your pictures off. You want the light on them, you know. Learning the red, the orange and the blue and the white lights, you know, using the application on your actual camera, the white balance, you know, that' ; s something that I didn' ; t even pay attention to. Even though Nancy taught us in class, I spent a lot of months not using my white balance and you' ; ll get a yellowish undertone to people' ; s skin and the colors scheme will be off. And now in editing, you have to go through and try to mute all that yellowish and greenish because you didn' ; t do a proper white balance, you know? So stuff like that, I had to waste a bunch of photos and SD cards because I didn' ; t, you know, take that into account. So where are my light source come from? Having enough light for the individual. Focus--my focus points, you know, the different variations you could, adjust your camera to, you know? Shooting in portrait or shooting in, you know, a fast pace or a slow pace. Understanding that, uh, your camera only captures so much depending on the lens. So, if I have a $700 lens, I could do a little bit more than that standard lens you come with, but I have a $2,000 lens I can do even a little bit more. It allows for even more mistakes because that vibration control works a lot better in the $2,000 lens than it does in that standard lens you get. So, understanding all of those things before I even take the photo. Using a tripod to take photos versus handheld, because nobody can sit still, you have a heartbeat, your body can' ; t sit still. You have to hold your breath and pause everything. You know, that' ; s just like, you know? Anybody that does weaponry, you learn the same thing. When you have to shoot a rifle on a range, you have to hold your breath, squeeze in between your breath, because that' ; s the only still you' ; re going to get. It' ; s the same thing. I think that' ; s what you call it, " ; shooting with the camera," ; cause yeah, it' ; s some of the same techniques. So, anybody that shoots rifles, it' ; s kind of the similar techniques. For putting it' ; s a similar technique. So, shooting free throws, similar technique, you know, those positions, you have to pause that breath. So, all of those things at once before you even take the picture, if you rush through it, you just wasted some time. I had to do it. And then I look back at my photos from the beginning. Because I even have a book that' ; s not out for anybody to see because it' ; s a book of mistakes, you know? And I keep it and I have it in my room and I look at it from time to time. I can' ; t--this is where it started, you know? A lot of blown out pictures because it' ; s too much light, a lot of yellow skin because no white balance, a lot of blurry pictures because my arm is moving too much. And I have to keep it to look at my mistakes to remind myself, to keep all of these things in mind before I shoot the picture. So, you know, that' ; s, it' ; s a part of it and it' ; s--it' ; s needed. Visintainer: Yeah. Do you keep all of your photos that you take? Northington: Yes. So, I have quite a few hard drives so, and the only thing I don' ; t like is they usually last, you know, four or five years and you got to switch them up again. Don' ; t like that, but you know, because you have to keep paying for that over and over and over, but yeah, you should. I would tell people to keep them all because if you get rid of your mistakes, you can' ; t see them. It' ; s hard to improve like that. So, unless you' ; re always going to have a teacher right ahead of you constantly doing, you know. So it' ; s hard to self-improve without a constant teacher or a constant reminder of the things you need to work on. So, and I would employ people to do that on their own by always having a teacher because you' ; re being guided a little too much. Take your own steps. So. Visintainer: I think that' ; s good advice. There was another thing I wanted to come back to and that was, you mentioned importing your subjects into your backgrounds. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: And forgive me if I' ; m not phrasing exactly how you did. And I thought that was really interesting because you do portraiture, you go out, you look for people that I assume that are, that you want to have that are subjects. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: So, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the process of how you choose your subjects. Northington: (laughs) Yeah. Visintainer: And then I guess the follow up, you know, beyond the process of how you choose your subjects, then how do you insert them into the backgrounds? Do you choose your backgrounds and look for a subject or, what do you do? Northington: I don' ; t even decide, it decides itself. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, just being a student, you have to walk around campus, you take enough classes, you' ; ll go into every building on campus. So, been here almost four years now. So, I' ; ve been in every building. As I' ; m always walking, I' ; m seeing these scenes, making mental notes. I want a picture right there. I want a picture right there. Mental note--it just built this bridge across the street. I need a picture right there from the bridge. So, you know, and there' ; s a lot of tall buildings here. So, it gives for a lot of angles. A lot of birds-eye-views and worms-eye-views. So, it is a lot, it' ; s enough layers here, even in a compact campus. So, all of those backgrounds are constantly piling up. So now I have all these backgrounds. Now it' ; s about the people. Who do I want to use for the next photo? It' ; s all that random, you know, but I don' ; t want anybody too excited. I prefer a person who is on the edge of saying " ; No," ; but they' ; ll do it anyway. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: That' ; s what I want. I don' ; t want somebody that, " ; Oh, I take a thousand pictures for social media every day." ; No, they usually are too excited, too much to calm down. That' ; s just been what I' ; ve seen just from taking pictures for three years. People that are over excited to take photos, it' ; s usually for me. Other people may be different, but for me it' ; s more difficult to get them to the look, the feel and the expression that I need for the photo. And that photo shoot would last two hours. When I could have got the picture in seven minutes with a person that' ; s more calm and mundane and melancholy. We can get the photo in seven minutes and then now I can spend thirty minutes getting a bunch of photos to use for later. So that' ; s more conducive for me. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, and I particularly want people who have never seen. So, the invisible people is what I want. Melancholy, invisible. That' ; s the people I want: the unseen. You know, people walk around every day and pretend like homeless people are not standing on the street with a sign asking for water or food. Yet, they' ; re walking a dog, picking up behind a dog, feeding the dog and walk right past a homeless human being, you know? So, we see this every day in society. So, the unseen get no support, no help, you know? They don' ; t get to smile. They don' ; t get to feel good about themselves, you know? We can change that. So that' ; s a part of the social activism of my work. I want the people who are less recognized, the people who may then have such a good time in middle school or high school, got picked on. Maybe wasn' ; t as tall as everybody else. Not as muscular, not as attractive, not as whatever, you know, " ; -ism" ; you want to use. Those people should be recognized, because everybody should be included. So, there' ; s no popularity contest with my photos. I' ; ve turned down more people than most. Because people that ask me to take their photos, it' ; s probably ninety-seven percent time, it' ; s a " ; No." ; I say " ; no" ; every week. So (laughs). Visintainer: When do you say " ; yes" ; when somebody asks you to? Northington: If it' ; s like a social, like, situation as I' ; m graduating? Okay. That' ; s a necessary-- to capture this moment. You know, [if] I' ; m having a birthday party, you know, something like that. People celebrate different, you know, different holidays and stuff like that. So, those are understood situations. But when it' ; s like, " ; Oh, can you take pictures of me? Can you take?" ; -- because it' ; s a lot of that. You know, people are doing that with phones every day. But when they find out somebody has a camera and oh, you take pictures a little, you know, on a little higher level than a camera phone. " ; Oh, can you get these pictures of me for this or for this?" ; you know, I get some of the same people over and over and over. Even after I' ; ve taken pictures for them, they' ; ll keep coming back for more and more and more. No, no, no. That' ; s enough. You have a phone on your camera. That' ; s enough. You know, because I believe you' ; ve already accomplished what we needed to with the photos. You feel good about yourself, you know? And you' ; re walking around elevated. Good. We made it happen. That' ; s so that' ; s enough for me. So, I don' ; t need to entertain that anymore. So, we trying to pick up the people who feel a little, you know, more lowly about themselves. Pick those people up. Visintainer: So, one of the things that I think separates beyond skill level, obviously that separates art and photography from say more commercial enterprises, like, you know, capturing a wedding or something like that is a philosophy or a thought process-- Northington: (both talking at once) Yes. Visintainer: (both talking at once) --behind the production of the art. And you' ; ve talked a little bit about, um, about how you want to make sure that the people that are unseen are seen. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: But I was curious if there' ; s other philosophies that you take into the production of your art as well? Northington: Yes. My photography is particularly for Black people. So, it does two things. It' ; s force feeds Black images, Black positive images into everybody' ; s purview. I' ; m going to force feed it. There' ; s something--this comes back to just being a kid and I will walk in Walmart with everybody else that goes to Walmart since they' ; re billions and billions of dollars every year. You walk in Walmart and, and maybe you just need a picture frame because you and your family just had a family reunion or your grandmother' ; s birthday was celebrated, and you go pick up this picture frame and the family in the picture frame stock photo never looks like me. Ever. So, that' ; s the standard. And then, you know, you play soccer, or me? I played tennis growing up and we win a little trophy and the figurine on top of the trophy is never me. It' ; s never my people. And then let' ; s say you fall in love with somebody, you get married and you go to the place to order your wedding cake. And you have to specially order the Black figurines and you wait a few weeks for it to come in the mail because everything in the store that' ; s standard is not me. It' ; s not my people. So, you can go across all media, all aspects of society. And the standard is one group. Everybody else becomes, you know? Well, they get to choose if they include you or not. So, what' ; s happened for many commercials, many movies? We have this idea of the token, we' ; ll insert one, you know, non-white person that could be anybody, you know? They may insert one Asian, one Latino, or one Black person, Disney movies do it all the time. Disney TV shows do it all the time. If you' ; ve ever seen South Park, they have a character called Token and he has a big " ; T" ; on his t-shirt and it' ; s a Black kid that lives in South Park, Colorado amongst all of the other white kids. You know? This is a real thing in life and in a place particularly like San Marcos, this is not a Black city. It' ; s not a Black area, you know? So, we have a lot of Black students here who were the one in their entire group of friends and, you know, sports, anything, they were involved in. So they' ; re not the standard. So going back to Walmart, let me go get, you know, some stuff, some products for my hair. And there' ; s an aisle called an " ; ethnic hair aisle" ; in Walmart. One aisle, two or three shells with hair products that' ; s supposed to be for me. And then there' ; s one, two, three, four, five whole aisles for the " ; standard" ; people. So, you know, the photography or the standard of people can be influenced by these things. So, you can learn to understand that you' ; re not included by growing up like that. And those are just a few aspects, you know? Cartoons, whatever--toys, everything. A lot of little Black girls were getting little baby doll toys or Barbies or whatever. And it doesn' ; t look like them. So, these things can help pull away at yourself, how you feel about yourself, how you view your skin, your hair, you know, your people in America. It could pull away and produce these negative aspects. And then you see yourself in film and you' ; re always a drug dealer, a crack head, a prostitute, on welfare. Forever. So much so that a movie like the Marvel Black Panther movie makes a billion dollars and it automatically changes so many people' ; s view. And it automatically brings up the feeling of a group of Black people. Or, 2008, when Barack Obama comes into office, you see the spiritual uplift of a bunch of Black people because of representation. And then he has so many books out between him and his wife. They produce different books. There' ; s so much photography of them. There' ; s so many art pieces that were made because they came into the office, you know? There' ; s a there' ; s a professional painter that did a huge piece on Michelle Obama. That' ; s famous all throughout social media, just for the representation. So, propaganda can be positive or negative. So, I' ; ll take my photography to create some more, just add to the positive end. So, I feel like anybody can do that. If you have a camera phone in your hand, everybody can do that. So, I just choose to be on the more positive end because all of my life has only been negative for my people through film, photography, or otherwise, you know? Just pull up any school website and look at the photos they use for the school website. I almost never see my people in any realm, any aspect. Just Google any business, you know? There became a trend that you would only see Black people in McDonald' ; s commercials and Cadillac commercials. And that' ; s been the trend for like thirty years. And then, you know, Black History Month comes up and then you' ; ll see somebody get inputted somewhere else, you know? Or like, the NBA is like eighty, eighty-five percent Black, but then during Black History Month, they have NBA Black history t-shirts that everybody in the NBA has to wear. So, you' ; ll get that one time and then everything else is standard, you know, stuff like that. So, that' ; s the way I look at it. I see it that way. I go, " ; Okay, how can we improve this?" ; I can put out more positive Black images. So, I will. So, I go look for people who may be down on themself, who may be just, " ; I' ; m just going to hide in the shadows," ; or, " ; I' ; m unseen," ; you know? That' ; s the people I would prefer if I--if they' ; re willing to be a part of it. And then just, you know, gradually go up and up and up. And then when we get too far to somebody' ; s just over-- " ; Okay, it' ; s enough." ; So, I' ; m just trying to get that aspect. That' ; s not really, picked out and use and you know, uh, it could be commercial art. It could be just, you know? Fine art, any way you want to take it, but these things are going to last forever. So that' ; s kind of the thought process behind the book. The photo books. They last forever. You can look back at this when you have kids and the grandkids and this event happened, you know? It happened. You have these yearbooks in high school. People always look back at the yearbooks, you know? A lot of grandmothers used to have this big photo album on a coffee table and you come to your grandmother' ; s house and look at all these photos, you know? So, since those were a part of my life, this was a part of the process. Like, okay, I could put all that together and let' ; s just tell a story with this book. And then, I use the book and find a social issue that affects Black people. So, and let' ; s try to correct that social issue through photography, using the Black students here and then give them these photos. And I gave many of them the books that are in the books. Now they get to say they' ; ve been a part of this. They get to know. Their family gets to know. So, these pictures get to now reverberate through the Black community. Much like if you saw, you know, Michelle and Barack Obama walk across the stage 2008. So, it gives some type of spiritual upliftment. You feel proud of yourself and who you are, versus comparing yourself to the stock photo in the picture frame at Walmart. Visintainer: Yeah. So, you talked a little bit about representation right now, and then we' ; ve talked in the past about representation. And this is not necessarily a photography-related question, but I was curious, as a person of color, when you' ; re out in the world and you don' ; t see representation all around you, what are the kind of the kind of self-care approaches that you take to remain positive in an environment where there' ; s an absence? Northington: Well, just the phrase you just use that I don' ; t use myself. " ; Person of color" ; is not in identifiable nomenclature for me or how I use for my people. You have notion such as " ; African American." ; That' ; s not--that' ; s not for me to use. That' ; s for other people. That' ; s only been around nineteen years. U.S. census in a year 2000 added " ; African American" ; as an identifying, you know, political term to be used. That didn' ; t exist before then. So, I did a project in the library about that, you know, that we did here. And I showed how the nomenclature of Black people have changed since 1790 census to today. So, there' ; s been, you know, quite a few terms and phrases. So, the phrase that is currently used now is " ; people of color." ; I don' ; t use that because you kind of amalgamate everybody into a group and that can be good in certain aspects. But for me, that adds more negative-- Visintainer: Okay. Northington: --For Black people, because we get away from talking about Black issues, and Black people by calling all issues of non-whites people of color issues. So, and a lot of these things need to be particular because people of color don' ; t get kicked out of high school for their hair. People of color are not being murdered at this such high rate by the police on TV. So that' ; s why I can' ; t use a term like that or a phrase like that. But I do understand why people use it and then it gets, you know, it gets, you used a lot, but I--I can' ; t use those terms because what affects Black people particularly is not a people of color issue, you know? People of color in hair that' ; s, you know, it' ; s such a different thing. So-- Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: --You know, just try to keep it a little more positive. And, uh, so, going back to your question. I would say, the women' ; s book in particular, the main issue was like, I just brought up, the hair. So, there' ; s black kids getting kicked out of school by the thousands every single year, just for having their natural hair, because my hair grows as my hair is supposed to. Your hair grows as it' ; s supposed to. How can this now be a factor in who can be in school and who can' ; t? And who' ; s unkept and who' ; s not, you know? So, we have Supreme Court rulings on this. Many states have their own state' ; s law and federal law doesn' ; t include, you know, the Constitution has nothing about hair in it, you know? Because that was the standard of one group of people. So, hair wasn' ; t an issue. So, we have a lot of state Supreme Court ruling and that led me to the focus of the first book I did on natural hair. So, in 2016, they had an Eleven Circuit Court Supreme Court ruling said employers could in fact discriminate against natural hairstyles. If they see it to be unfit, unkept, unprofessional. So, to even be allowed to do that legally, that' ; s not a people of color issue, you know, that' ; s Black-specific. So, I had to dive into that with the book. So, I went around campus and uh, just would just keep my eyes open for any Black people who just walked around freely with natural hairstyles, their natural hair all the way out, you know? Who may not believe in that " ; I' ; m going to be clean cut because society told me to," ; you know, my hair has to be cut off. Yet, I sit in class and see all these other races of people who get to enjoy their hair being as long as they choose to. And they' ; re not assumed to be violent or thug or unkept, you know? So, you could walk around with a ponytail and it wouldn' ; t be seen as anything other than hip. But I let my hair grow, and now society makes a direct connection from me and my natural hair to 1966 Black Panther Party. Just my natural hair alone, I get directly, " ; Oh, you like a Black Panther?" ; Why would they do that? You know why? Because the photography that existed in 1966, taking pictures of Black people in Black social movements, they all look like this with their natural hair, the men and the women have the same natural hair. So now, America, hasn' ; t seen that since the sixties, thousands upon thousands. So, you had about twenty-five to twenty-eight million Black people at that point. And for a lot of them to just be walking around naturally, completely, like this, that' ; s a different thing. Because it' ; s like, this group is very different than this group. And it' ; s almost like a highlighter, a notify, you know? And at this point, as you go to the " ; people of color" ; term, the term that was used at this point was " ; Afro-American." ; It' ; s in literature. It' ; s all over the place at this time. It' ; s in movies, everywhere. Interviews everything. Because it notified the hair. Afro-American. Well, that since passed and a lot of people went into different hairstyles and different things have changed. So much so that when now I exist, the only correlation is 1966 through the sixties and early seventies is Black Panther Party. So, I get that every day. Can I help change that? Yes. With the book, with the pictures. Particularly discussing hair and how my hair has to always be political. My hair has to always have a law. My hair has to always fit into the scheme of the society as they make the rules. So, we had to fully discuss this hair regulation policy, because it doesn' ; t just exist with that one employer for that one Supreme Court rule in an Eleven Circuit Court. This happens at every, it happens here. It happens when I go to job interviews, you know, I' ; ve been asked to cut my hair before and I just didn' ; t work at that place, you know? It' ; s a little different for me. What if I wanted to get a job that requires hats like an officer or, you know, a firefighter, baseball player. The hats are not made for me and my hair. That hats are made for the " ; standard" ; American. You know, if your hair lays down in a particular pattern, then a hat doesn' ; t change anything as far as your hair. Well, if I were a size seven hat with my hair low, that changes with my hair longer. It may not change as much as you because your hair would press down and it wouldn' ; t be, you know, wouldn' ; t be messed up. Anything like that. Well, it' ; s different for me or if I' ; m the only sector of society, that' ; s going to have such a significant difference in that manner. The rules didn' ; t change for me and for Black people. So, just trying to help point out some of these things, you know, with the books and with the photography. So, that' ; s why I said it can work in both ways. You' ; re uplifting Black people and then you' ; re throwing it in the face of everybody else. " ; Hey, this is who we are. This is what we look like. I' ; m born this way," ; you know? So, this is supposed to be the era of " ; inclusion." ; That' ; s one of the newest words being used in the last two or three summers. " ; Inclusivity." ; " ; Equity." ; And all of these things. Those sound good. And you know, people may have the best intent. But how inclusive are you? If you' ; re asking me to cut my hair, how inclusive are you? If you accept Black people, when their hair is straight, you know, processed. You accept that version. But that same Black woman, if she comes with a hair natural, it' ; s a problem. So much is a problem that many Black women get unrecognized when they come to work one week with their hair pressed and they come to work two or three months later with their hair like mine. " ; Oh, I thought we had a new coworker. I didn' ; t recognize you." ; You know, this happens every day. If I cut my hair right now, I guarantee you, I come to school next semester. Some people will--" ; Oh, I didn' ; t realize that was you." ; Because my face changed (laughs) due to my hair. You know, so, uh, being that our hair has seen is so negative and the negativity comes from the connection to the Black Power Movement throughout the sixties and seventies. So, one of the things, one of the greatest things is our bodies need to be seen as human and as positive. So, the photography about the hair includes that as well, you know? See us happy, we' ; re on campus, we' ; re students, you know, we' ; re coworkers. You need to get used to seeing us in our natural form, how we are. So, the people who may hate or have a disdain for those images, that' ; s a part of them seeing this as well. So, this is what it would do to people who are not Black and then uplift the people who are Black. So, we can kind of, you know, create some social change. So, you could be a little more uncomfortable with seeing a person that looks like me, because you' ; ve seen it. So, if I' ; m in a commercial, if I' ; m in that standard photo at Walmart, if I' ; m on the school website, you know. If my sister' ; s here, my mother' ; s on this. And we see Black people in films that are also teachers, that also work in the library, that also police officers. So, it becomes accepted. And now I don' ; t have such a, you know, a shocking response. When I see a person like me. There' ; s so many people are shocked by me walking around school. I' ; m in elevators, going up steps with people. And I keep getting that. The startled response from so many students just because of my hair, that' ; s it. So, we can help change some of these things. Visintainer: Um, to come back a little bit to people that are unseen. So, if you' ; re looking for people that are on the verge of not being interested in being photographed and you' ; re looking for people that are generally unseen. How do you go about convincing people to be seen? Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: If they' ; re used to not being seen (Northington laughs), and maybe comfortable not being seen. Or maybe they' ; re uncomfortable with it, but that' ; s kind of what they expect? Northington: So, I mean, that becomes the work. So, it can' ; t be easy. You know, if you want to do something easy, then I' ; ll just take pictures of people who want to, you know? And then for me, that' ; s not the right energy to go about it or to make the change. They want to be seen. Okay. Yeah. You know, then they' ; re already showing themselves. So, it' ; s not, to me, that' ; s not a fix. So, now when dealing with a person that may be more reluctant to do that. It' ; s not that I want to convince them. It' ; s that I sit down and have the conversation. Let' ; s think about ten years from now. If you make this decision, how will this affect you for ten years and ten years looking back, you know? Would you have been proud of this? You know, then I tell them my purpose for doing it, you know? Similar to some of these responses. Look at commercials, look at magazines. What do you involve yourself in on a daily basis? If you' ; re watching your social media, what do the ads look like? What are your favorite films? What' ; s your favorite music? So, look at the--already imagery of yourself. If you had the opportunity to make it positive, because, you know, there' ; s so much talk about these people do this to us. This group oppresses us this way. Those are true. So, what if I' ; m giving one small opportunity to go against that. To improve it? If my son, my daughter, my granddaughter, my great-granddaughter was able to see this great imagery of, you know, their great-grandfather or something. It uplifts them as a child. So, I can start that off from the beginning. And you are already fighting against some of the negativities against you from the beginning. So, what happens today? A lot of Black people are looking back to pictures of the Harlem Renaissance. Looking back at those, you know, Gordon Parks photos. This the, uh, what is this? Another woman, uh, [Carrie] Mae Weems, she--her photos as well. So, you have something to look back to something, to aspire to. All these images of Barack Obama, Michelle Obama. All these images of Jay-Z and Beyonce, all these, you know, you have these images to look forward to, to uplift you. You may even make some type of connection, and you can see a little bit of yourself in it, because it represents you a lot more than looking at the, uh, the Statue of Liberty or the Mount Rushmore, you know? Those are like things that are unattached to your culture or to your soul in a way, if you would see own people, you know, we have the Caesar Chavez statue on campus. Everybody probably generally understands that that' ; s okay, it' ; s a mark on the campus. What Caesar Chavez stands for, you know, the rights of migrant workers and all of those things. But then I would say there' ; s another aspect of people who look at that in a different way than even I do. But in other peoples they see more self-representation, more our people work for something. And then there' ; s a different connection. So, we can do that with statues. With imagery. So, I explain this to some of these people and then they make a decision off of that. Then some of them go, " ; Okay, you know what? I do want to do this." ; And then they may have already told themselves they want to be seen, but they don' ; t get the opportunity. They want to be included, but they don' ; t get the opportunity, and they don' ; t have the persona or the, you know, or the personality to kind of say, " ; Hey, you know, I like to take pictures and do this." ; So, I get to now become the conduit for that. And then some of the people go, " ; No, that' ; s not my arena." ; And then I have to take that. But I' ; d rather deal with it in that way than the person screaming. " ; Take pictures of me, take pictures of me." ; So that' ; s kind of how it goes. Visintainer: Thank you. Have you seen your kind of personal philosophy in relation to your art evolve over time? Northington: Yes. Yes. Uh, but the first idea of doing it from the hair perspective opened up so many other lanes, because then it goes, this is happening against Black people in society. So, let me walk down that and see how I can place that in images to where people can see the image and I don' ; t have to put words on the paper, you know? Tell the story without putting the words on the paper. And then it opens up another lane, another lane. So, I would say the involvement, the evolving of it comes from the first stance of looking at the hair situation. The involvement came from that, and then it' ; s just, this is happening, this is happening. Also, I' ; m in sociology classes, you know, I' ; m in a Black feminist thought class. Talk about Dr. Walkington. And I' ; m in a Black communities class. Talk about Dr. Muhammad. So, we' ; re talking about the aspects of Black immigration, the aspects of over sexual sexualizing Black women, you know? Things like this, more avenues. Now I can use that in the photography and help try to curve some of those negativities. So, it just continues to just go out and go out and go out. And more ideas are just constantly popping up. So, that would add to the evolving measure. And then these are open doors for me to take photography of so many other people, you know? So once the photos get posted online or other people post the photo, I took it in and tagged. Then now I' ; ll get a message saying, " ; Hey, can you take pictures of me at my birthdays coming up? I have my 22nd birthday. Me and my friends, can you come take--" ; then that' ; ll happen. And then from that, I had two different companies go, " ; Oh, hey, we have an event, uh, company that we constantly do events, ten or twenty a year. Are you available to take events for our-- take photos for our events?" ; So, I have one company I' ; ve been taking event photos for three years and another one for a year. And then, so it just keeps going and going and going. And then that adds for a lot of practice. Because I' ; m getting different lighting situations, indoor, outdoor, overhangs, you know, candlelit lights, you know? So everything' ; s a little different. So, it allows for a lot of practice to do the actual photography that I' ; m passionate in. So, that' ; s kind of some of the involvement. Visintainer: Okay. So, you' ; ve got a commercial aspect to what you' ; re doing then. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: And you talk a little bit about how you utilize that to grow your personal art. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: What are some of the things that don' ; t translate when you' ; re doing commercial photography to your artistic side? Northington: Um, we' ; re not really attacking any particular social issue when we' ; re doing commercial art, so it' ; s more, " ; Let' ; s enjoy life." ; The commercial art becomes more about enjoying life. Like, okay, it' ; s the time to fight against, you know, injustices, it' ; s the time to sit down and do your work and it' ; s the time to enjoy life. So, and the commercial art tends to just, you know, live in that arena. Let' ; s enjoy life, let' ; s have fun. But that also still becomes a correction because it used to be illegal for Black people to get together and hang out, you know? You have the slave codes of Virginia, 1684, they have slave codes and you can' ; t congregate, you know? South Carolina has some of the same slave codes and many of these things were supposed to be overturned and go out the window after the Civil War. Well, you know, those people still had jobs. So, whether the law changed or not, they still had jobs. So, they still kind of continue some of these practices. And this is where we see like a stop-and-frisk comes into play to where New York City police are growing up, stopping-and frisking can five or six Black dudes standing together. So, we can' ; t even be together, you know? There used to be a time where you could buy a house and have a party. Well, since I' ; ve been in California, those things seem to be illegal. You can' ; t even have a party at your apartment. Can' ; t have a party at your house. You can' ; t even congregate and have fun. So now people are forced to go rent out, you know, spaces and hotels and ballrooms. You got to rent out of space, pay a few thousand dollars to get people, to show up and party and have fun and then still pay for parking and all these things. It wasn' ; t like this in the nineties. In the nineties, you lived in a place that you pay rent. You can have a party. Well, those things are like illegal now. People just call the cops. You go, no partying allowed. You know, this is even on some paperwork when you go get an apartment: no parties. Some paperwork, for Homeowners Association of that house: no parties. So, I' ; m an adult, I' ; m a human, I can' ; t party. Because I choose to. I have to go to a club. I have to rent out a ballroom, you know? So, for Black people in particular, we need to be able to enjoy life as well with all of these stressors, you need to be able to enjoy life. So, even though this is commercial art, for some of these companies, these people are having fun and are having fun together, which is something that' ; s not promoted. They' ; ll show us fighting together, but not so much of us having fun together. So, there' ; s no balance of that. So, in that aspect of thinking, I get to help provide some balance to showing Black people, enjoying each other, having fun. And then go back home to their kids, their wives, their husbands, and their jobs and school and all of that. But they come together and congregate to have fun and we never get to see it. So. Visintainer: When it comes to your subjects for your photography, um, are there anything that you look for in particular? You' ; ve mentioned that you look for people that are--I guess maybe, you' ; ve already answered this. That you look for people that are unseen. You look for people that are reticent, to be photographed. But are there anything else that you look for in your subjects? Northington: Yes. I also look for Black community organizations or Black on-campus organizations. So, I' ; ve taken pictures for the Black faculty and staff, you know, because they have to have it. You should have photos out there. The Black Student Union, the Black Student Center, you know? There' ; s a Black fraternity here, Omega Psi Phi. Black sorority here, Sigma Gamma Rho. And I' ; ve taken pictures for all of them because they should have the photos out there, you know? If we' ; re not seen on campus and people pretend like we' ; re not here. So, we' ; re supposedly like 2.1, 2.2 percent of this campus. And you know, and that seems to be the trend all throughout the CSU, you know? There' ; s maybe two: Dominguez Hills and Cal State Long Beach in L.A. They' ; re in a particular area where there' ; s a high concentration of Black people right there in L.A. So, they have a little higher of a number. The rest of the CSU is right around two percent, three percent. So, with that, we' ; re not so much in a propaganda photography in videos at those campuses. Knowing that coming in, I want to particularly take pictures of these Black groups. So, I' ; ll offer my services to all of these Black groups and take pictures of any events that they' ; re doing, any tabling that they' ; re doing and stuff like. So, I have done that here and that' ; s a part of the focus, too. So, to make sure they' ; re supported in that way and, you know, and they can continue on because other than that--because you do an event here and the process is you go to office communication or go to a newspaper you can request photographers to come. And then sometimes they come and they stay for two minutes, take one or two pictures and they leave. And then for me that' ; s not enough, you know? They did their job, they did what they were supposed to do. They got the one or two pictures they' ; re supposed to get and they left. So, they did what they' ; re supposed to do. But for me, that' ; s not enough. For us, it' ; s not enough. Because we' ; re not being represented properly. So, we need to change that. So, when they do their events and sometimes, you know, these different Black organizations ask me to come do the photography, I' ; ll go do it. No charge, just do the event, edit the photos, put them out there. Even make some little slideshows of them and stuff like this. So, and that' ; s led to me doing the old people' ; s luncheon, some Halloween parties, and stuff like that on campus for even other organizations that are not Black particular. But this stuff now lasts forever. , it' ; s amazing. This is 2019, but if somebody' ; s not here, particularly taking pictures of Black people, none of this happened. Everybody' ; s living off memories, you know? That' ; s stuff that was done for people that graduated in [19]79 or [19]82 as a Black group of people. They' ; re talking about the memories of what we went through in four or five years of college. How is that still a thing? Because if nobody' ; s pointing them out and going, " ; We need to capture this on video on film," ; that this happened, they did this, they did this, they did this, you know? The biggest thing here was when we got the Black students in the spring of 2017, and then you have three students who really made the biggest push. So, the ASI [Associated Students Incorporated (student government)] President at that time was Tiffany Boyd. Then you have Jamaéla Johnson and then you have Akilah Green. All three of them were ASI and they made a huge push for us to get the Black Student Center as we needed. And this was a time that all of these Black people were being shot on TV. And, so, this was a very important need for Black students on campus. So, with those three people, we had to make sure they got recognized. So, I took pictures of them. They came for the grand opening. I hope one day that their names and pictures are on the wall in the Center to get their proper due. If that didn' ; t happen, and there' ; s no pictures, it all goes away and there' ; s a history forgotten. So, the photos become documentary automatically. Any photos of Black people almost automatically become a documentary and historical reference points. So that' ; s another point of keeping all of my photos. When you ask if I keep them. I just get to look back, you know? Even now I' ; ll look back three years ago when this person was a freshman or whatever. And, you know, it' ; s like, " ; Hey, remember this picture, remember this BSU [Black Student Union] meeting, or remember this event," ; you know? So. Visintainer: When you' ; re taking your photographs, what guidance do you give your subjects? Northington: To be calm, to try to, like, take away the stress that they have, you know? Because it' ; s almost exercise when you asked about some exercising, some positive things to kind of--because this, this also helps me, you know? This has becomes a tool of, uh, I mean, some people will call it a yoga, mental yoga, or a relaxation technique. Because just being able to take a picture of Black people and it makes them feel good. It makes me feel good. So, you know, you get to keep pushing that positive energy back into Black people. Because they need it just as much as anybody. So, if nobody' ; s going to be particular to help pull up Black people, I' ; m not going to sit around and fuss about it. What aspect can I add to it? So, I' ; ll continue to do that. So, it can help them as well, you know? Especially those people who are more quiet and shy and then they go, " ; Oh, this person wanted to put me in their book or wanted to put me in their video," ; and that can help change them and, and it help them grow and help them feel good about themselves so I could help them. They could help me. So that' ; s the way I take it. Visintainer: Can you tell me about a particularly satisfying moment in your photography? (Northington laughs) Something that really, really made you, you know--I think you get a lot of joy out of it in general. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: But something that really made you go " ; Well, I' ; m so happy to be doing what I' ; m doing?" ; Northington: Uh, well, a lot of these photos in the books, especially the Black women' ; s book, I printed out maybe seventy, eighty of these photos on a large canvas of like twenty-four by thirty-six. And I did a thing last year where I printed all these out on steel frames and some of them were on canvas and I gave these out to people or gave them to their mothers and to their grandmothers. And that was probably the most satisfying thing because you don' ; t normally see people from a socioeconomic deprivation to be, to make a jump, to have something that may be considered expensive artwork of their own in their house. So, imagine walking in your house and having your own huge portrait on metal, on steel, on the wall, and every time your family comes over, " ; Look, this is my daughter in college. Look, this is my son in college." ; And they had the picture taken by somebody on campus. When you would normally have to have enough income enough, you know, throw away money, to go pay for this. And it cost you three or 400 bucks. So, because it cost about 200 bucks for the photo. And then now for the photo photographer services, you might spend 500 dollars for something like that. Just for that joy. Well, I just give it to them and then they got that joy anyway. And they were sitting around talking about it. This one girl had her mother, her father, and her grandparents and her brothers and sisters at this event done by the Black SistaHood. It' ; s another Black organization on campus. And we did a natural hair event last year to particularly talk about our natural hair and how we treated and things we can do to improve, you know. So, and that was a part of it. So, I printed out these huge photos. So, when people walked in, they had a line of all these huge photos of Black men and women in their natural hair, smiling, loving it. And I handed out a lot of these photos at that event and these people with their family and they just loving, they posting it online and everything like. So that right there would probably be the peak, that right there. Visintainer: That' ; s cool. What' ; s the most difficult part of the process of photography or creating art for you? Northington: Uh, impatient people (laughs). Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: Yeah, or people that you' ; re trying to communicate with a person to do what you see in your head. That' ; s always difficult, you know? It' ; s almost like telling somebody to draw something out of your head. That' ; s the way I look at it. It' ; s almost that difficult sometimes because you know, people want to sit and stand like, " ; Okay, roll your shoulders back." ; And then they do the same thing. Okay. " ; Chin down," ; Because this is how people take pictures. " ; Okay, we' ; re going to take your picture." ; Okay. " ; Stand there." ; And then people do this, uh, you have to put your chin down, then they do this. Okay. (Visintainer laughs) You know? And then I' ; m like, " ; Alright, one millimeter, two millimeters to the left, to the right." ; You know, all right. " ; Don' ; t look at the camera," ; and then I' ; ll take the picture. Or when I get ready to take the picture. Okay, " ; One, two, three," ; and then they pop the same pose. Okay. Well, no, we already posed you. Sit still, " ; All right, let' ; s go." ; You know, and people have a--he did it. Shamar did it. He, you know, keep ticking his head to the left when it' ; s ready. All one, two, three. And then, you know, and I came to find out, a lot of people have a tick like that. Because people get used to taking photos. So, they have like a go-to pose. Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So that go-to pose becomes a difficult thing a lot of times. So, that, and I never like it when, if people are not satisfied with the photo. So, there' ; s some photos that I put in the books that I really love and other people love them, you know, from the studios and everything. But then that person in the photo didn' ; t particularly like that one. So, we' ; ll take thirty or forty and I' ; ll ask them to choose. And then I' ; ll tell them the one I like. " ; You pick two or three and I' ; ll tell you one I like." ; Hopefully they' ; re the same, but in some cases it' ; s not the same. And then they' ; re not as satisfied as I am. So, I don' ; t like that part either. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: But, it' ; s a part of the process. So. Visintainer: Um, so you published two books of photography. The first book was inspired by the question of hair. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: The representation of hair. Northington: Yes. Visintainer: Uh, what was the second book' ; s (unintelligible)? Northington: The second book is of Black men. So, the negative characterizing of Black men has always been thugs and criminals. Well, we have all these Black men here on this campus going to school that are not student athletes. They' ; re students, you know? So, they need to be recognized as being students. So, there' ; s plenty of Black men that have graduated from college. That' ; s not what you see on TV. You don' ; t see a college graduate Black man on TV, in a commercial that we know that' ; s what it is. The representation is always a sport, you know? (laughs) Music, you know? It' ; s pretty, after that, it gets thin, you know? So, uh, you can be a comedian, it' ; s entertainment, and it' ; s entertainment-based mostly, you know? And if that' ; s the eighty percent, the ninety percent, maybe even a hundred percent of what you' ; re going to encompass, it' ; s hard to see them as anything else. So, this determines a lot of how we treat people. If I only see Black men represented that way, but then I go home, nobody' ; s --and my home' ; s Black. I' ; m not Black. I live in a community that' ; s not Black. And my only visual of Black men is all this negative stuff. That' ; s going to play on my comfortability or how I treat them. So now I come to Cal State San Marcos, I get in the elevator and I see a dude like this. I may be a little disheveled. So, if we can change some of those things, because we can, and put out the positive imagery of Black men, then these things can start to, you know, disappear. So, with that in mind, when I did the book for the Black man, again, I want people with all different hairstyles or all different natural hairstyles. But I told them not to smile because I need you to be able to be accepted for having a straight, comfortable face. I' ; m just sitting in a class like this, or I' ; m just in my Uber, or I' ; m just, you know, at the ATM machine. You shouldn' ; t have to smile, dance, and entertain to be accepted. And those are aspects of vaudeville, ragtime, USA, you know? You can be accepted by this society, entertaining people as a Black man, but can you be accepted when you don' ; t entertain? When you just live life? And that' ; s why we have these, social things that are happening such as barbecuing while Black, driving while Black, shopping while Black. These things occur so much because of how other people view Black men, Black women, Black children. And then you' ; re already castigated and put into the box of criminal or not American, but other American. So, you viewed a certain way. Therefore, you' ; re treated a certain way. And then this causes stress on both ends. So now the stress is building up on us and then the stress is building up on anybody on the other side. And then now it clashes when you get to a campus, when you get to a work environment and you have this wall up on both sides. Well, that doesn' ; t make well for society. And it doesn' ; t do well for people' ; s mental health and spiritual health, especially the people on the end receiving all the negativity. So, we can help change some of these things. So, if I' ; m not the one causing the racism on myself, I' ; m not the one that needs to make the correction. So, the people viewing this and see these Black men, not smiling, being themselves, looking like me, looking like him, looking like all different aspects of Black men. And you get to view this in a book. They' ; re all students, they' ; re all at this university. They all go unseen. So, let' ; s put this out here. So now when you see this, it forms now, " ; Okay, this is a little different than the rapper I saw on TV. This is a little different than the guys I see being chased by the cops." ; So, I have to give you another element. So, it allows for some change, but people still have to make that choice themselves. So, that' ; s the point for that one. Visintainer: And then you have a third book you' ; re working on? Northington: Yes. And then the third book of this series, this is a series of books. The third book is called, " ; WE ARE," ; and it' ; s going to show the Black men and Black women together on campus doing regular life, you know? Studying, having fun, telling jokes, you know? Walking to their cars, walking to class, you know? Hanging out in the library, all different things, eating together, congregating, just enjoying each other' ; s company. Because again, that' ; s something we don' ; t see propagated by the country, you know? There' ; s a select few, you' ; ll get, you know? If there' ; s a people of color seminar, you know? There' ; s an African American scholarship, then you' ; ll see the commercial art for that be Black people smiling. So, it' ; s not, it doesn' ; t change the standard. That' ; s a particular thing for a particular group of people. And it, you know, it' ; s almost commodified in that way. I want to include us in the standard. So, including us in the standard becomes the change. So, I would look at it in that, in that realm. Visintainer: Do you have a, um, do you have a project after your next project? Are (unintelligible)? Northington: Yes. So as soon as I made the second book, I automatically thought I could just do a bunch of series. So, with this third book completing this series-- also, I did mention before, I think, I maybe told you on the side--all three books, I envisioned them already before I did them. So, I said, " ; I' ; m going to make another element to this." ; So, the books have the photography and I have a passage in the front of the book that explains the purpose of the book. And then every book has its own title, which I explained on the first page. Then the final page of every book has the thank yous of everybody that we included that gave you the energy to the book. And the thank yous are translated into a different African language. So, with each book, you' ; re going to learn a little bit of a different African language. Now, all three titles of the book in a series complete one sentence. So, the first book is called, " ; Solar Amalgamations." ; The second book is called, " ; HUEMAN." ; And the third book is called, " ; WE ARE." ; And the whole sentence is rearranged: " ; We are solar amalgamations." ; Well, " ; We are hueman [human] solar amalgamations." ; And that generally means, " ; We are stars," ; you know? We' ; re carbon-based human beings. So, this is the carbon-based world. So, and then the human part, I spell " ; H-U-E-M-A-N" ; you know? Denoting the shade or the " ; hue." ; Visintainer: Okay. Northington: So, " ; We are human solar amalgamations." ; And that completes that trio. After that, there' ; s another book series I' ; m doing on older Black people that work on campus and things like this. So, I' ; m particularly looking for fifty [years old] and up, you know? So, and then another series is going to be on Black families and it' ; s going to go on and on and on and on and keep going with that. So, this sparked just a different--and I can, I think I' ; m going to do this by just (unintelligible), and I' ; ll be able to keep adding more series. So, and that' ; s what that' ; s going to do. So, and then this third book should be out. I want it to be done now, but people' ; s schedules, it' ; s always tough. The more people that are in the photos, it gets tougher. So, it was a little easier to do the first two books because it was individuals. And then I could put it together in a week or something after I got all the photos, I spent one week putting the whole book together. But we groups. So, these photos are going to be done in groups. It' ; s going be at least two people in every photo. And I' ; m trying to get some photos of six and seven and twelve people, you know? To add to that, the aspect of us together, " ; WE ARE," ; that' ; s the title. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: So, it should show us together. So, it may take a little longer than I thought and it may not come out into the spring. So. Visintaier: That' ; s a lot of scheduling direct. Northington: Yeah, yeah. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: And I have to be the most free because I have to work with everybody else' ; s schedule. So Visintainer: I think that' ; s all of the questions that I had. Northington: Okay. Visintainer: Was there anything that I should have asked you about that I didn' ; t? Northington: The recent recognition that' ; s happening that never happened. I' ; ve been here going on my fourth year, as I said. And when I spoke about people being invisible, that includes me as well. So, I had to sit back and watch my fellow students that are in class with me, get their work recognized every year, every semester, over and over, you know? People that ask for my help or people that I ask for help. We' ; re all in the same class. And you know, there' ; s a nursing program, they all go to the same classes. There' ; s sociology, they all-- same thing with art. We' ; re all in the same classes, especially in my student discipline, art and technology, we' ; re all in the same classes. So, to see some of those students get their work put out or get recognized or see their work, you know, in different areas on campus or whatever I say, " ; Okay, this is how this works." ; So, it doesn' ; t stop. It doesn' ; t turn off. So now, you know, you just come here and then you see the work in the, in the art-- it all just linked up. The students in the art department that put on the exhibit, the art juncture, you know, they reached out because a few of my art professors let them know. So, all of those pieces kind of came together at once. So, you know, I did old people' ; s luncheon, I did photography for them, did their programs and all these other things. This all happened in one month. That part, the school newspaper reached out to me and did an interview and they put it in a newspaper and they posted my photos. Another group of people for Art Equals Opportunity that they work in a--in the San Diego area using art to help students, you know, learn the lessons of English, you know, history, science, and everything. But using the conduit of art, they posted me on their website. All of this happened in the same month. And then you walk in, you know? And your coworker sees the work and then we meet to do this. And all, all of this just happened at once. That' ; s just that. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: Then the last, last week I submitted some of these photos to, ah, Lycoming College. It' ; s in, uh, Pennsylvania. It' ; s in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. And there was this huge national search for all Black art for their exhibit called " ; Blurred Expectations." ; That' ; s open now. It just opened today. Everybody across the country submitted. Somebody that knew me said, " ; Hey, you should submit your stuff to this." ; I submitted it. Boom, immediately. They was like, " ; Yes, it' ; s in." ; So, once this exhibit ended here, the very next day, I had to take it down and ship it. Visintaier: Yeah. Northington: Uh, to Williamsport, Pennsylvania. And it' ; s up right now in their exhibit. And then ASI, the ASI student government here, just accepted one of my pieces for that art project. So, within two months, this semester, all of the work I' ; ve been doing for years, you know? Some of this book is 2017. This book is 2018., you know? And I' ; m currently doing--so these things are year, two years old, after I watch all of my, you know, fellow students be recognized. All of mine is coming right here in two months. So that' ; s, you know, that' ; s been a big change. So. Visintainer: Yeah. Well, congratulations. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: How long is the exhibition in Virginia up for? Northington: Until the beginning of February. So, they got a couple of months. Yeah. I think it' ; s right at two and a half months. Something like that. Yeah. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: No, the end of November. All of December. All of January. Yeah. So, it' ; s right at like two and a half months. Think they got like eight week-- Visintainer: (both talking at once) Is there going to-- Northington: (both talking at once) --be six week, ten weeks, something like that. Visintainer: Is there going to be a digital component to it? Northington: Well, they' ; ve been posting videos and uh, you know, tagging all of the artists in it and everything like that. And they made--they made a social media page, they made an Instagram page. So that' ; s how everybody' ; s keeping up who' ; s not in their area at that school. And it' ; s like a huge four-year private institution. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: That costs like ten times as much as this school to go to. So, it' ; s-- and it was a national search. So, it' ; s-- it is, it is good to add to, ah, you know, to a resume for something like that. So, I mean (laughs). Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: You know, it' ; s like on my way out the door, I have all these résumé items now that didn' ; t exist before, you know? Even though I' ; ve done so much work on this campus going unrecognized, but it' ; s now, it' ; s now all happening right now at the perfect time. So. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: I can appreciate that. So, uh, and I also wanted to mention all the supporters that helped over this time. So, Miss Ariel Stevenson from the Office of Inclusive Excellence. Uh, Mrs. Marilyn McWilliams, Office of Inclusive Excellence, Dr. Sharon Elise, you know? These are people who supported me from the beginning to now. No holds barred, you know? They even got a little flack, you know, at times, because I' ; m not as accepted as everybody else. So, you know, they' ; ve asked me to do different projects on campus. They supported, they came to all of the events, you know? We established another club on campus: The Black SistaHood to encompass all these elements I spoke about, about photography, my photography, Black-specific, and how it assist in helping us get through this society and try to make some things positive where we turn that into a student club and organization. So, that' ; s why I have this. That' ; s why wore this sweater for this interview. So no, and this is more pushing love for people, you know? Loving each other, breaking through some of these stereotypes and turning these negatives into positives and becoming, you know, great people in life. So, and a lot of that' ; s going to be exemplified in the third book, in the, " ; WE ARE" ; book, you know? So, uh, been a part of Black Student Union since I' ; ve been here, you know? Some--there was some people in the sorority, Black sorority and Black fraternity, Sigma Gamma and Omega Psi Phi, a few, there' ; s a few individuals that supported me and helped as well. And then the Black Student Center itself has been the hub for all of this. So once that was established and created, it allowed me a centered space because before I had to walk around the entire campus, like loop every building and hang out during every U-hour, whether I had class or not. And just try to like find people. So that' ; s what I had to do before. And it' ; s like the people out here right now, " ; Are you registered to vote? Are you registered to vote?" ; I was one of those people. With my camera and no book because the book is not made yet. So, I' ; m out here with a printed sheet of paper. " ; Hey, would you like to take a photo for my project?" ; And this-- and that was not as, you know, as presenting, you know, as to walk up with an already made book. So, once I got the first book, I got more yeses. Once I had two books, I got--you know, so the yeses come a lot easier. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: So, having the, the Black Student Center here, I get the crowd now. So now I have more people to choose from and it' ; s just so much easier to do it now than it was, you know, in 2016, when I started the first book. So, it' ; s a lot easier now. So, that may--that may be it. And uh, as long as you using the terminology " ; Black," ; because I don' ; t, I don' ; t use " ; African American" ; or " ; people of color." ; Visintainer: Yeah Northington: So, while y' ; all printing this, any, any printing that has to be done uh-- Vistintainer: I' ; ll, I' ; ll send you any verbiage that we do. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: And then that way you can look it over and-- Northington: Okay, okay. Visintainer: Correct me, if I' ; m making a mistake. Northington: (laughs) Well, you know, it' ; s not a mistake for other people, but for me that, you know, it just doesn' ; t work for me. Visintainer: Yeah. Northington: So, that might be it. And then shout out to the, the people who are coming behind me, you know, Shamar. We got (unintelligible) Williams. She' ; s been working with me the most here. So, she' ; s a senior now and she' ; s in my same major field: visual performing arts. And she' ; s helped a lot over the last year because I' ; ve been just forcing her and pushing her to do her photos, to do her artwork, you know? And then as I mentioned with Gordon Parks, this isn' ; t one element, like I told you before, the photo is just one thing that I' ; ve done on this campus. So, I make these shirts, I make these logos, these designs, you know? So, all of the BSU gear you' ; ve seen, all of the Black Student Center gear you' ; ve seen for the most part, all the Black SistaHood, Black Brotherhood, you know, Transitions Collective. I did some logos for them. Project Rebound, I' ; m designing a logo for them right now. So, there' ; s so many elements to the artwork that I produced on campus. So, and I' ; ve done about four or five, like a components--we just saw the art exhibit. But then I already did two exhibits here in the library and we' ; re working on the third with the art department right now on sustainability. So, I have an art project, uh, a water art project that' ; s going to be in sustainability, you know? If that happens in the spring, that' ; s still talking about that. I did a sustainability project with ASI about straws. And this was right before they banned straws on this campus. We were trying to make a push to get rid of straws and how this affected the aquatic life. And we, you know, we created like a sea turtle with a straw in his mouth and shows how this kind of messes them up. So, uh, spent a lot of things like that on campus. So, I just want to make sure it' ; s not just photography. Visintainer: Sure. Northington: I would say it' ; s art and I' ; m sure you understand that it' ; s art and, but this part is the photography, but there' ; s so much more that I' ; ve been a part of on campus than that. And now I want the next group of people like Shamar to come along and continue it. Because if I--you know, once I leave it' ; s over, it shouldn' ; t be, it shouldn' ; t end. It should be fifteen, twenty more people. So, I try to do my part and help them learn the right avenues, meet some people, you know? That' ; s why I asked them to come and be here and to see a different process, you know? " ; Okay, this is where I started. And then I could do this, this, this, this, this." ; They can do the same thing I' ; m doing, you know? It' ; s not, it' ; s not that special. You have to do the work, you know? You have your vision, you have what, your passion and then you need to do the work. And you' ; ll get everything that you want out of it. So. And that' ; s, that' ; s probably all I got right there. Visintainer: Alright. Northington: Yeah. Visintainer: Well, thank you, Jake. Northington: (both talking at once) No problem. Visintainer: (talking at once) I really appreciate you coming by and chatting with us. Northington: Make sure we see, uh- Visintainer: Yes. Northington: The women that I love. And then the men' ; s book. And the third book will be coming soon. Visintainer: Alright. Northington: Alright. Visintainer: Thank you, sir. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
csusm.edu if you have questions regarding usage of this oral history. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=NorthingtonJake_VisintainerSean_11-22-2019_Access.xml NorthingtonJake_VisintainerSean_11-22-2019_Access.xml
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northington, Jake. Interview November 22, 2019
Description
An account of the resource
Jake Northington is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his degree in Photography in 2019. In this interview, Jake discusses his artistic influences, the importance of Black representation in his photography, and his involvement in CSUSM’s Black Student Center and the Black SistaHood.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SC027-13
Subject
The topic of the resource
Artists, Black
California State University San Marcos -- Black Student Center
California State University San Marcos -- Students
Portrait photography
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-11-22
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
East Saint Louis (Ill.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Jake Northington
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jake Northington
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sean Visintainer
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Activists and activism
Art and artists
Black experience
CSUSM history
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d2e38ab1e684ee0573d588a35324c907.pdf
a210bb7c0cb693c64cc55b3d104d1376
PDF Text
Text
JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Ayana Ford: Today is April 6th, 2021, at one-o-eight PM. I am Ayana Ford. I'm a student at Cal
State San Marcos, and today I am interviewing Jake Northington for the Black Student Center
Oral History Project, a collaboration between the CSUSM Black Student Center and CSUSM
University Special Archives (Special Collections). Mr. Northington, thank you for being with me
today. I’d like to start by talking about your childhood. When and where were you born?
Jake Northington: Oh, I was born in Illinois. I'm from East St. Louis, Illinois. That's where I
grew up. And I moved around a lot as a child. I was adopted quite a few times and that allowed
me to stay in a lot of cities. A lot of States, I went to quite a few elementary, middle schools,
high schools. I went to four or five different high schools and I kind of moved around a lot, so,
and ended up here in California.
Ayana Ford: Wow. So that actually brings us to, our next question. How did you come to
understand Blackness? Because I know by moving around to different places that would change
your understanding.
Jake Northington: Well, the city I'm from is 97% Black, and it's been that way for hundreds of
years. So East St. Louis is in Illinois. Most people have never been there. And then people have
heard of St. Louis, Missouri. Well both sides of the city is divided by the Mississippi River. And
East St. Louis was a town established by Black people and it's been Black forever. And one of
the major things that happened in that city was during the industrial revolution, like you've got a
big race riot that happened in about 1918 that decimated the city, the East side of the city. And
it's been decimated like that since then. And many of those places and the industries that were
burned down are still burned down today. So even when I grew up, a lot of those places was still
burned down and dilapidated just, it stayed like that for so many years and it's been a place of
poverty, but within that ninety-seven plus percent of the population is Black. So growing up, I
got to see Black people drive cars, be the principals, be police officers, drive the city bus, you
know, they're driving Greyhound buses. They were mayors, city council people and all of these
things that even the person delivering the mail – the person delivering to the doors and all of the
shops, it's just a big group of Blackness. And I got to see Blackness from all different levels of
economics and education. So I'm in an area where I get to see Black people from economically
the lowest level and economically a higher level. So being able to see Black people among those
different class groups and those different educational groups, it allows you to see people for who
they are. When you can only see another group of people living wealthy and rich, it could kind of
skew your view of that entire group. So, because I grew up in an area like that, I didn't get a
skewed view of my own people.
Ayana Ford: So do you feel like that helped you become more comfortable with yourself as a
whole?
Jake Northington: I was never uncomfortable. I would answer it that way. So I never had to get
to a point to become comfortable being Black. My teachers are Black. So when I grew up, there
was no such thing as being the only Black kid in class that wasn't a part of my upbringing.
Everybody in class was Black; teachers, middle, the principal, everybody, the Superintendents.
So that wasn't an issue growing up so that every Black person there is practicing Black culture.
The food, the music, the art, the corporations, the festivals, everything that's happening in a park,
every holiday that we celebrate, everything was full. And so these are not things I had to pick up
later in life or learn later in life.
Transcription by Ernest
1
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Ayana Ford: So how has the Black social justice and activism such as a civil rights movement,
feminism, the Natural Hair Movement and the Black Lives Matter protest affected you?
Jake Northington: Oh, well, so the civil rights movement definitely affected us. But in a way
that's a little different for me because I--you got a lot of integration. You got a lot of Black
people in areas they weren't, they were not allowed to before. You started to see, maybe an area
of homes where you'll now have a few more Black families that never existed before, or you'll
start to see Black people being allowed in certain malls or restaurants. Those things start to
become a lot more commonplace, but growing up in East St. Louis, that doesn't matter. That
didn't change. So you could--the people there were concentrated. So we didn't get to see all these
different races of people and other cultures. We got to sit together, build together, fail, and grow
together and go through all of the tribulations of life together. And you could get your answers
from your own group of people. You could get--you know, you may get chastised, you may get
corrected, you may be taught to do this, taught to do that. And it gives you an influx of
empowerment. Like if I reach out and I want to know like, Ooh, what happened with Black
people 50 years ago? I don't have to go to the local library and read it. I could find someone 70
or 80 years old that I can just talk to or ask what did Black people go through during the civil
rights? These people are right here in front of me every day, they went through the civil rights. I
don't have to go to a library or a com(puter) or something like that. And I think that's what
people who grew up outside of a Black city, they may have to do some of those things. Well, I
did not. So the civil rights effect on me didn't come with a lot of integration. The civil rights
effect on other people, they may have been forced those to go into a lot of integration. And with
that integration, they could have lost some sense of culture or some of the things that I was
afforded to have, growing up in a predominantly Black city, going to a Black middle school,
elementary, high school and things like that.
So, the civil rights movement, you know, it had an effect as far as activism. Being at a Black
school, we always celebrated Black History Month. Like throughout the year, we did things such
as we had to give book reports or oral reports on every single Black person in history. And most
of the time, these were all the Black people during the civil rights movement. So all eighteen or
twenty of us, in second grade class, we'd all have to give out oral report and dress up as that
person. So--and this is something I brought later to San Marcos as a student--and that's why I got
that from. Being able to do that connected us to it. And it allowed us to see what we had gone
through as a people, where we're currently at in East St. Louis, and then to kind of (technical
difficulties) cast. That's what it allowed for me, that particular social movement. But then you get
the, uh, the Black Panther Party movement, things like that. We got to see a lot of these people
actively in the streets protecting other Black people. And some of these things were available in
East St. Louis as well. So a lot of chapters that have Black Panther Party, some of those people
came from Chicago and they will come down and then they would help protect or teach people
different protective measures or teach more about history. And, that those two movements within
my whole community, as far as people wanting to know more about history, people wanting to
know what can they do actively in their community to correct some of the things that are issues
in their community. So those two things had a great effect on my life and my upbringing. Now,
when you get to some of the other movements, not as much, because I'm not actively involved in
newer movements, but when as a kid, these other movements really had an effect on my mindset
and give me a reason to look at Black people as a whole group of people and not just the people
here on my street, the people in my school, the people in my city, you know, it allowed me to
Transcription by Ernest
2
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
open my mind up to Black people on the planet. And having Black teachers all of through school
before leaving, East St. Louis, having those Black teachers in all of this, this Black community as
my baseline, once I left and going to these other cities, I was already, you know, in a strong
understanding of who I am and come from.
Ayana Ford: So, I imagine that's a big shift for coming to San Marcos. Did you come directly
from (East St. Louis to) San Marcos? So, did you go straight to San Marcos after that? Or no?
Jake Northington: I came here for work, so I completed my job. I was in the military after I
completed my time in the military. It's right here. And you know, it was right down the street. It's
like ten miles down the street, the military base (Camp Pendelton). So in this case, I wasn’t
trying to move again with so, so much moving going on early in my life. I wasn’t interested in
continuing to move. So I just chose to apply to the school (Palomar College). It’s the only school
I applied to.
Ayana Ford: Really. So was it--so you said you came, so you came from the military, so it was, it
wasn't a really big shift coming from the military to the San Marcos meaning, culturally, or was
it an easy shift because you got to be around a bunch of different cultures?
Jake Northington: Yeah. So, I would say, no, it wasn't a difficult shift because even in the
military, you're around every state and multiple countries. A lot of people from other countries
joined the military to get citizenship and stuff like that. Even within the military, you're getting
half of the states. At one job, half of the states are covered with people from different states. And
I was in the Marine Corps specifically. There's not a lot of Black people in the Marine Corps.
Most of the Marine Corps is non-Black so we already around other people and dealing with other
peoples’ culture and stuff like that. And then prior to joining the military, I had already lived in
Dallas, Texas, and I lived in Chicago. I lived in a bunch of other cities. So I was engaged in
(technical difficulties) privy to being in the first university I went to. I went to college right out
of high school and didn't work out too well, so I wasn't prepared for college in a way that I
needed to be. That's kind of how it happened from the city I come from. It really doesn't prepare
you for college. A lot of the effects of the, what is that called? They put a thing out in the
eighties that was no child left behind policy. So it kind of turned all of our testing into multiple
choice. And that was no more fill in the blank (unclear) of measure. So it was just pass or fail
and they were just trying to pass everybody. So a lot of people were not prepared
mathematically, through English, or through science and reasoning to even walk into college. It
did a lot of us that disservice. So I had to take a little bit of a U-turn in order to come into the
university and be successful. And that U-turn was the military. And that's what brought me to
California. And then after the military, this school's right here. So that's why I chose San Marcos.
There's no special reason (otherwise).
Ayana Ford: So this--you think this, this U-turn helped you prepare for your coming to San
Marcos with everything going around with so many different cultures that are entering the
military?
Jake Northington: Well, I mean, again, I had already faced it before the military, ‘cause I'd
already been in universities and I'd already live in other cities. So I was already prepared even
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
3
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
before joining the military. That's why I had no issues. So it's just a repetitive understanding that
all of this is not East St. Louis. And everything I learned in East St. Louis, it doesn't necessarily
show up everywhere, you know, it became more disheartening. So it wasn't a shock. It was more
disheartening that outside of East St. Louis, I didn't go to a lot of places where they had a large
congregation of Black people living at home, going to work, having all of these big family events
and things like this. So that was more disheartening. I wouldn't call it a culture shock because
this is still America. So I know I still live in the United States. So (laughs).
Ayana Ford: So what was your first impression of San Marcos as a Black student? What was
your first impression?
Jake Northington: (unclear) That I didn't see any other Black students. The first impression was
where are all the Black students at? Like, where are my people at? And now you walk around on
a regular basis, every day you may see eight Black people. If you're on campus for four or five
hours, you might see eight black people. And half of those are faculty and staff. So almost never
saw the Black students, especially in my, uh, my study. I was in Visual and Performing Arts.
And I think the entire time I only saw one other Black student in my class.
Ayana Ford: Oh my goodness. So, can you, what, where did the student--(technological
difficulties)--Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. So you were, you were, were you at the (unclear),
grand opening, Black Student Center’s grand opening?
Jake Northington: Yes.
Ayana Ford: So you got to see it come to be. How do you think that it impacted your
involvement on campus? Being able to see this come to be?
Jake Northington: Well, I already knew it was happening because I was a part of the, some of the
other students who were working to make it come about. So before I got to the school, I was
already coming here and being active because the first school I went to here was Palomar. So I
went to Palomar College, which is the junior college across the street from the school. So I was
already going to Palomar College. And while at Palomar College, I would come to San Marcos
or some of the events and, you know, they put out a lot of different events that they were doing,
and I would come to some of them, during kind of the U-hour (University Hour, noon to 1 pm on
Tuesdays and Thursdays, a time devoted to student mingling and interaction) on campus. So I
was able to witness some of these things, and then there were groups of students trying to start
the process of getting a Black Student Center. So these people were already doing this. And I'm
quite sure this has been tried before as well, but this time it became successful. So I'm sure that's
not the only time the Black student body asks for a place like this, but it was just the right group
of students this time. And that was the very excellent Black students. They pushed it and they put
all the measures in place. And then I just got involved immediately because when I got to the
campus and said where all the Black students, I got involved immediately, I saw a couple of
Black students that were out here really active and trying to make things happen. And I'm a
person like that. So I just attached myself to some of those people and did what I could with this
entire project. So I was along the lines of the project and I kind of added here and there wherever
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
4
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
I could. And that was, uh, that was just a good group of students that were pushing to get their
center. And I just happened to be one of them.
Ayana Ford: So to backtrack, were you in-Jake Northington: So I know I, (technical difficulties). Say what?
Ayana Ford: Oh, I'm sorry. You cut off.
Jake Northington: Oh, okay.
Ayana Ford: To backtrack: so were you, were you in any activities or anything that got you to be
able to connect with more Black students on campus?
Jake Northington: Yes, because when I first got here and I said, where were all the Black
students immediately, I would stop people and be like, Hey, where's the BSU (Black Student
Union) meetings held at where's this where's that, you know, you have to have a BSU! I mean,
you got more than 10 Black students. You got to have a BSU. I would think, you know, so I
found the people going to the meetings. I became a member immediately, you know, I started
paying my dues. I went to every meeting and then I just kept asking for more. So I don't like
things the way they are just because, you know, I think we deserved more than what we were
getting. And then a few students felt the same. And then we decided to keep pushing for more,
you know, every one of us has a part to play. So while some people wanted to operate, you
know, the BSU, some people want to operate, like they had a Black Christian Ministries. Some
people went other ways and then everybody has a part to play, to keep growing the Black
community on campus. I wanted to find out things I could help do to grow the Black community
on campus. And then this avenue of having a Black Student Center became one of them. So I just
jumped in right into that and got involved. And that's what kind of segued me. So getting
involved in the BSU segued to getting involved in this Black Student Center project.
Ayana Ford: So, what do you think the role of the Black Student Center, Union was played with
the Black Student Union (Center)? Like how did you, how did, what was your, did you have like
a administrative role or were you just a student?
Jake Northington: As far as the Black Student Center?
Ayana Ford: Union.
Jake Northington: Union? Oh, the Black Student Union, I was just a member. And then at one
point I did run for one position. I didn't win it though. Somebody beat me out, but I did run for
one position in one semester. But other than that, I was pretty active. I helped design some of
the logos that they had for merchandise, I helped set up and break down events, things like that.
So I was never an official officer, but I did the same thing many other students did, you know, so
I didn't do anything special, but I just gave all the support I could. Showed up to every event I
could and helped set up and helped put on some of the events, you know, just like everyone else.
But then the activism within the Black Student Center project, this is when it started to kick up a
little more, because I did other things on campus. I was a part of the College is 4 Me seminar at
that time for the high school students trying to come to college. I was able to speak on some of
Transcription by Ernest
5
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
those panels and then this led to other opportunities. So then I started to get selected to be
involved in other occasions. So then I started to go to ASI (Associated Students Incorporated)
meetings on the regular. Every week I would go to ASI meetings, take notes, say whatever I
needed to say and try to transfer some of the things that the Black students were asking for in
BSU meetings and try to bring some of those things and present them ASI meetings. If I could.
And also sometimes those things happen and then them extended meetings. And just any
meeting I saw happening on campus--they used to do a check-in with the vice president. They
used to, they had all these open forums, I would go to everything. So that's the way I started and
supplanted myself, as far as trying to help create some change and just attach myself with groups
that were creating change, or sometimes create our own group to create some change. So then
when, you know, as we got further and further along with Black Student Center, these other
students were doing their part to start the resolution (for the creation of the BSC). And then I was
just one of the students that came along to make sure we spoke up in support of it during some of
those ASI meetings. And once it got voted on and it all got agreed to, then we had to have
students to work there. And we also had to have people come interview for the position to be the
director. So along those lines, I became even more involved. So I was selected to be one of the
eight people to sit down and have luncheons with the candidates for the position. So I was able to
do that. And we were, you know, in a conference room and we had to do some little, like just a
little enclosed meeting and luncheon and kinda see what each person was standing and what they
offered. And then I went to every one of the people's presentations to be the next candidate. And
then I kept doing that with other positions as well that were around the campus. So that was
another part I played. Also, we all sat down as a Black Student Center--as a Black Student
Union, a lot of us sat down to come up with the name of the Black Student Center. So there's
many names thrown out there. So in that it's called the Black Student Center, I helped vote for
that too. You know, some students voted for that and I was just one of those, some students
voted for different names, and this is a name that everybody kind of agreed to settle on. We also
had to put in evaluation sheets for the presentations we liked the best from the different
candidates. So I was able to do that as a student and able to do that as one of the eight people
selected to be on the little small group panel. And I was the only student on that (panel).
Everybody else was a staff member, but I was the only student. So then from that, I got hired. So
I was one of the first people to get hired into the Black Student Center. And I was hired there.
And then I actually designed the logo that they still use today. You know, I'm happy they still
use it, but I'm like, it's been a couple of years. I was surprised they haven't gotten somebody to
change it, but that's nice that every time I see it, I just remember. I did that and they--there's been
like a lot of merchandise and just, you know, lapel pins, t-shirts and the space. All of the photos
for the first two or three years, I took them all. So at that grand opening, all of the photos of the
grand opening, a lot of those things you see as for a lot of the activities from the first couple of
years, different video clips and stuff like that, you know, a larger majority of those things I did.
There was a few other people that took pictures and videos, but the large majority of it, I did.
That was one--that was my position when I worked in the Center, I did a lot of media and a lot of
archiving.
Ayana Ford: Wow. So what did you think that the student, staff and (faculty) involved in the
creation of the Black Student Center felt like they needed? While you were in the meetings?
Jake Northington: Well, one is we needed a space that was our own. That's just number one. I
would think all groups need a space that's their own when you're coming into a university
system. Because we're going to be here for awhile. You're going to come to class, you're going to
Transcription by Ernest
6
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
be here for six, eight hours a day. Some people are spending ten to twelve hours like me. I was
one of those students that was on campus ten to twelve hours a day. You are a student who works
on campus. So now you're taking your classes and your work here. You have to have some level
of comfort and security. And then all of these things occurred during the height of a lot of
shootings and murders of Black people that we all were able to witness over the course of these
same years. So we're talking about the center opening in 2017, but this comes off the backs of
the Sandra Bland murder, the Trayvon Martin murder that Tamir Rice murder, the Mike Brown
murder all the way back to back to back, leading up to right before we got a space. So all the
anxiety was constantly building amongst Black people, just in the country and you know around
the planet. So with that high level of anxiety, a lot of Black students just felt a little more
uncomfortable or insecure being on a college campus, that maybe they didn't feel as much
support as they had once said they needed. So, having the space is something people asked for,
because now we can have programs specifically for Black people that didn't exist prior, we could
create support groups. We could have fellow mentoring from other Black students to Black
students or Black faculty to Black students. We could have a hub or a home on campus where we
could just relax and take all the stresses of being a Black college student or just a Black citizen in
the country. So it becomes a place of that. So you get a little, a piece, a little home feeling, and a
reinvigoration of why you're here. (technical difficulties)
Ayana Ford: Can you hear me?
Jake Northington: Yeah. Yeah.
Ayana Ford: I'm sorry. You cut off again. I'm so sorry. So did you feel in the beginning, did you
feel any pushback for the creation of Black Student Center in the upper--from people above?
Jake Northington: Oh yeah. There's tons of it. I got it all printed out. People physically looked at
us and gave us nasty looks walking around. This is faculty, staff, and students. Would physically
look at us in a way of like, You don't belong here. So, before the center open Black people will
be walking around sporadically, going to classes or something like that. And we were not
grouped up as much. The only time you would maybe see a group of Black students is on the
way to the BSU meeting on the, on the way back from the BSU meeting. And that may be the
only times you can see groups. Once we get a Black Student Center, it's now a constant that
everybody on campus is now constantly able to view, look at these groups of Black students
right here around the center of campus at the USU (University Student Union). So this was a new
thing for the campus. So we started to get nasty looks. We got a lot of students disagreeing with
us having a space. We got people saying that, Where's the white student center? We had a few
people even saying, I want my student fees back from you, (technical difficulties) my student
fees going to the Black Student Center. Some people said that the Black Student Center is
separation and segregation. All of these things were placed on the school's website, the school's
Facebook page, the school's Instagram page. And, you know, the school had to do their job of
correcting some of these things. But this was the feel of a lot of students, faculty, and staff, and
some of them voiced these things. So we did get a lot of backlash.
Ayana Ford: Do you feel like the school did a good job on responding to that, to the backlash
that you guys received?
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
7
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Jake Northington: Ah, I mean, I would say the school did what they could because, I mean, if
somebody states in opinion like that, that they don't want their money going to this, that's not an
offense. You didn't break the law. You didn't. I mean, so what could the school do besides, Okay,
we don't enforce, or we don't support that type of rhetoric so we'll take it down. I mean, I would
say the school did that much. That’s tough to take in that manner. People get to feel how they
feel and state the things they state, as long as they don't go over a particular line of, of racializing
things or something like that. I don't think there was much else the school could do as far as what
people would write in posts. Now treatment received to students or any physical threats or
something like that, now I would expect the campus to do a little bit more. But just people giving
nasty looks, I mean, we had students in the front and taking pictures, going, Look, it's a Black
Student Center, wow, what is this? And they come make jokes. We had groups of students that
would dare each other--groups of students who were not Black--they would dare each other to
run in the Black Student Center and say something and run out. So that happened every week for
probably the first semester, that entire first semester, second semester we were open. So it was a
lot, it was a lot of little things like that. And people would come in and just try to crack a joke
and, “I'm not Black, can I even stand in here” and then laugh and run out. Yeah. And that's again,
disheartening, but that's not an actual rule that you broke. I mean, so what could we expect to
happen? But it did expose the unaccepting behavior that a lot of people on campus had when it
came towards Black people and Black students. So that behavior got exposed. So I would say
that's a good thing. Even though it's a little bit of a struggle to go through it, but I would rather
the truth come out. So, you know, people kind of get this from campus climate surveys, but we
get to see it happen in real time. We get to see the actual discomfort or people saying, “No, I
can't go in there.” But we didn't really see all of these things happening in the same manner with
the other spaces! You know, you don't hear people saying, “Well, I don't belong to that racial
group so I'm not going to walk in that space. I don't belong to this group. I'm not going to walk in
that space. There’s a line I can't cross.” I didn't see these things. So if it happened, I don't know
about it, but I didn't see these things. Well, we constantly got that. We had people that would
walk up with their group of friends, one Black student, and then four or five other students. And
they would walk up to the center and then everybody would stop right at the door and a Black
student would keep walking in and turn around and go, “Hey, what are y'all doing? Y'all can
come in here.” “Are you sure? Are we allowed in here?” And we had so much of that and it still
happens now, but it happens rarely now. It was a common occurrence every day. So it took a
while for accepting of having a Black Student Center. And that was from top to bottom.
Ayana Ford: So on a more positive note. So you said you attended the Black Student Center’s
grand opening?
Jake Northington: Yes.
Ayana Ford: How did it feel to actually go into the center for the first time?
Jake Northington: (laughter) I had already been in the center for the first time months earlier.
Remember, so I helped pick out some of the items that we put in there. I helped, you know, I
selected all of the books that we chose. I actually went down to do the purchase of the bookshelf.
Went out and picked the items that went on the wall with some of the art pieces. So I had already
been in the center, months and months and months, many times before it opened. And then we
had to do planning to actually have the grand opening. So of course I worked there, so I was a
part of the planning process. So it wasn't like a shock and awe to me because I was a part of the
Transcription by Ernest
8
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
planning process. But I do understand how much that meant to the whole campus. But again, I'm
coming from a different perspective. I'm coming from a city. That's nice. This doesn't give me an
aha or shock. For me, it was more of a, Okay, good. This is the first steppingstone for us. We
needed to have this. And this is now something that can become a foundation. Like this space is
always going to be here. Now let's continue to build some programs now that are going to help
Black students on throughout the future. So that was more where my mindset was.
Ayana Ford: Okay. To backtrack, how did the planning go? How'd you make those decisions on
what needs to be put up and presented in the Black Student Center?
Jake Northington: Well, I was--I just knew it had to be positive promotion of Black people,
because all that's ever talked about in many of our classes is if they bring up the Black
community, they're talking about slavery, they're talking about riots, they're talking about social
upheaval and, or they're talking about sports. So, culturally we're not seeing a promotion, or any
type of surrounding positive discussions with Black people, staff and faculty, students, anything,
because everything we were mentioning, it includes the faculty and staff too. You know, they've
been here for years and years. Some of them had been here two decades. Everything our Black
students are facing just for two to four or five years, the faculty and staff has faced the entire
time of their employment. So this includes them as well. I knew that everything that went up in
here had to support the Black culture (technical difficulties)-- pick out. Hey, let's get some nice
photos of Blackness in its most positive light. Let's get some photos of Black men, Black
women, Black families, Black children. And then the books I selected were particular books of
some of the most famous Black writers and scholars that--these are books that need to be read. I
created this whole list. I went and talked to other people; other people added to the list. So it was
a collaborative effort to make these things happen. And then we took a few people with us and
we walked around and we just picked out items out of certain stores, you know, we looked
online. And it was like, yes, these things are necessary. So you know, we have a big painting of
Marcus Garvey. We have a--there's just so many different things that was just necessary. So
that's kinda what we thought about. We thought about the past. We thought about the faculty and
staff. And then we thought about the current students and the students to come, what would work
to unify it all. And it's an uplifting thing to view and to see when you walk in here. And we also
had a lot of students that are born in Africa, but they moved from Africa and they now live here
in the San Diego area. Some of these students even brought things from home to help decorate
the space. So, and that was, you know, they did that on their own. And they came and asked,
they said, Hey, can we donate this? So we can put some of these African pieces in the space. So
everybody added to it so that wasn't, you know--it was a part of my job, but everybody added to
it.
Ayana Ford: Hmm. So how do you feel like the art and the decor of the Black Student Center
helped the center? Like how do you feel like it impacted the feeling of the Center?
Jake Northington: Oh, a little more edifying. You tend to feel a little more at home. You tend to
feel a little more comfortable. You walk in and you feel the culture and you just--now you like
being on campus. Like you don't just run from class and leave campus and never come back until
your next class at 8am. It allowed students to hang around a little bit more, which allows them to
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
9
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
now talk a little bit more, which now allows them to build more relationships. So these things
were not happening before the Center.
And then we can't just have it empty too. So now when you kind of decorate the area in culture,
it just helps with all of these things. And then now you constantly have positive images and then
positive literature and all of these different things to connect a Black person to go, “Wait a
minute! This has been done before.” Because we had this big picture of Tulsa in 1921, Tulsa,
Oklahoma, and it listed how many hospitals, how many banks, how many schools, how many
restaurants, how many train and truck systems that existed through this picture of the people.
And we had a picture like that of the Harlem Renaissance. And for Black students, faculty and
staff, to walk in and see this, it reminds you again, Hey, look at what our people have done
throughout the times. I'm here now in a university, it'll help you like motivate you a little bit
more to push a little further, to do a little bit more. That's kind of how the artwork and the people
kind of work together. And this is what makes it so much, so necessary to kind of culturally
decorate the place.
Ayana Ford: Hmm. Can you tell me a bit about the early focuses of the Black Student Center?
Like the initiatives, programs, events, and focuses?
Jake Northington: Yeah. So one of the main early focuses was, again, where all the Black
people? So our main focus was we have to get the Black people in the center. So it didn't happen
fast. So, you know, if you go to the school right now, it's like a regular thing. But it wasn't. And
half of them worked there. So we had to promote the space. As far as this place is here! It exists.
Come stop by. Let's go. If you're walking into the USU and you go stop and get a bagel and
some coffee, take two more steps. Here's the center, you know, so students would come through
and keep passing it and keep passing it and not think because the space was already there. It was
just, it was a different room. So the room got rearranged. And then once they put up the sign and
everything, it's--all of the spaces have a sign. It doesn't stand out. It's silver and black. All of the
spaces have a sign. That's not going to point it out so much. So you kind of have to stop. So what
we would do is we would stand in front of the, in front of the center! And kind of stand outside.
And two or three of us are standing out there, like during our work hours and stop students,
“Hey, hey, have you seen the Black Student Center? We just opened.” You know, we're doing
this, we're doing this, we've got this program, this event coming up. And then we would, during
U-hour, we would be out there and have a table and we would stop students. And keep telling us
in class, other students that work there, they would make announcements in class. A big part was
to get the students in the center. So we all had to keep stopping students and keep telling them.
That was a daily thing. Hey, you need to tell at least five or ten people today about the space and
keep telling, keep telling. So we kept going, kept going, kept going, kept going, and kept going.
And then, the Black faculty and staff had a lot of help in that because they used to do like Black
student welcomes. And it was a little smaller than it is now. Because now all of these entities get
to (technical difficulties) and the Black faculty and staff would do like a Black student welcome.
And then now you're able to put all these things together and now it made the welcome a little
bigger. And now you have a place to bring the Black students to, and you're not just talking to
them outside the building.
So this all now started to bring more students in. And then during the orientations, we're now
allowed to have a table at the orientations all during the summer. So now this helped with
recruiting. So recruiting people to the space was number one. Number two we're trying to get in
Transcription by Ernest
10
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
the school like as a student in the school, when now we got the students here, we need to get
them in the space. We're all trying to recruit high school students to the school. So we will go
around to the different high schools and speak to the different high schools. We also would go
speak to the different community colleges in the San Diego area and let them know, Hey, San
Marcos is a place to be. We have a Black Student Center as well. And that kind of helped bring
in some of the Black students. So even while I worked there, I ended up seeing about eight Black
students that I met at high school and recruited coming to San Marcos. So that was definitely a
good feeling to see people that I spoke to when they were ninth to tenth grade and tried to, Hey,
you just--you should, you should come to San Marcos. You know, we're building the Black
culture there. You live here. Your parents are here. Bring in you in your parents and then them
and their parents would show up to orientation. You talk to them again. And then they ended up
making a decision to stay there. We actually got to directly affect and help Black students come
to the campus. Without having a Black Student Center, we don't have as good a sell. So it's kind
of helped improve Black students even applying to the school. Another thing was about grades.
We need recidivism. We need to, we need to keep students here. So we know that freshman year
is a big year for a lot of Black students. And we have a large amount of Black students that drop
out in their freshman year, all throughout the CSU and UC systems. We need to impact that. We
need to get those numbers down. We don't need people dropping out so much. So a part of this is
there was a mentorship and that was a tutor program. And then the center connected with the
tutoring center to try to help students and we let them come in here and give a, give a lot of
presentations. And then maybe we can get some Black students working in the tutoring center
and they do their hours here in our space. So that was an initiative that was pushed. And I was
actually a tutor as well for some of the Black students. So now where these Black students may
be uncomfortable or may not feel like they can get as much help from some professors or some
other classmates or anything like that, they now were able to get that help in the Black Student
Center. And then another thing was programming things. So getting students in there, recruiting
students or recidivism and increasing people's GPA. And then, then we also got programming.
And with that programming we're--we want to bring Black specific programming. That's going
to increase students, graduating, going into higher education, learning more about their history,
learning more about politics and society. And then what ways that they can maybe get through,
past, and over traumas that are facing the whole Black community, what ways and what
measures they can use moving forward.
Ayana Ford: So do you think that's the main purpose of the center’s creation in your opinion?
Jake Northington: For me? Yes, but I think other people would give different responses because I
think everybody gets something different from the center. When you aim to do this, this, this,
this, and this, and now each one of us can take what we need from the space. Like, Okay, I really
need this. I really need that. I really need that. So if nothing else everybody loves it because it is
a space for Black students. So if nothing else, I would think that would be the one thing
everybody could say.
Ayana Ford: Do you feel like that purpose should be--it's especially being accomplished now?
Jake Northington: Yes, it definitely is. Yeah.
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
11
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Ayana Ford: I'm glad to hear. So what has been the impact that you see the Black Student Center
is doing on the campus today?
Jake Northington: It's bringing Black students and faculty together every day in an ongoing
situation that never (technical difficulties) never was given a space, a space for Black faculty and
students to operate together. So a lot of Black faculty would put on events. They would put on
presentations; they would give workshops and things like this. Well, now having a center, this
could happen right here in the center. So now we have directly faculty and staff that are Black,
giving presentations to Black students. So where we may not have as many Black teachers, all of
us, all of the Black students now have an opportunity to have that back and forth in some of
those mentorships. And getting some of those can, maybe they can get help with resume writing,
maybe they can get help with mental health and counseling. So all of these things were able to
happen now to have that space for the faculty and staff to kinda mix and mingle with the students
in a professional setting to where we can make these things happen now. Some of those lacking
areas that we have for Black students, those things were now able to get accomplished because
we have a space to put these people in, in an everyday basis. So that was a lot tougher to do
when you just have Black students walking around and then you, you may never cross paths. A
lot of faculty and staff got to meet students they would never normally meet because we have a
hub now – we have a home base. So I think that's one of the most important things that have
happened. And so many students now are more engaging of each other. Where come from all the
Black people speak to each other. I came out here It wasn't so much the same because people are
more spread out and they may be not used to seeing so many Black people like that in one space.
I actually heard that from many students from the Murrieta Riverside County area that came to
San Marcos, most of them had the same response. “It was ten Black people at my high school,”
stuff like that. Every day I was the only Black person in class. Well, now all of those students are
here and they're sharing those same stories. And now they can kind of help each other out and
help get through some of these things and talk about, you know, how that may have affected
their identity, has affected their personality, or affected their self-esteem. So then we can address
some of these things. I mean, that's just some of the things that have come about, since having a
Black Student Center,
Ayana Ford: How do you feel like the Black Student Center impacted you personally?
Jake Northington: I mean, hey, I got a job (laughter). I wasn't--personally, it gave me a space to
use some of my skills. I think that's how it impacted me the most. So I was able to practice my
photography. I didn't take pictures before I came to school, but those things kind of happened at
the same time. I started working at the Center like right at the same time. All of that kind of came
together at once. So now I got to practice my photography and I've since put out a bunch of
photobooks and I've done so many different photo projects on campus for the Black Student
Center. And of course, archived all of those pictures. The twenty thousand photos I've taken over
the course of a few years. It gave me time to practice my study. So my actual program is the
Visual and Performing Arts with an emphasis in art and technology. Everything from class with
my occupation and with going through different programs within the center. I was able to bring
everything from the center and all of those became my projects for class, all of my homework
projects, all of my midterm things I had to do in art classes. I got everything from the Black
Student Center, even some of my sociology classes and papers I had to write. I was able to get all
Transcription by Ernest
12
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
of my information I needed from the center. So then other students did the same thing as well. If
I have a paper to write and I needed, and I need books to read, I go right to the center. And I got
all these, these books to choose from, so I don't have stuff that already exists, or I need to
interview students cause I'm doing my psych class, and I need to interview a couple of students,
here they are right here in the center. I have to do these surveys for, for this class or that class.
And I get to come out and hand out my surveys in the center. So many students were able to take
advantage of those things, where they wouldn't be able to do before, because before I have to
stand outside of the USU (University Student Union) and ask people to help me, Hey, would you
like to take this survey for my class? Hey, would you like to? And that's what we were doing
before I had to do that for one of my classes. Once we got the space, we could do it right here
and get assistance with your projects, with homework, everything. And then we also were able
to--I was so happy that I was able to help different students sign up for classes because so many
students coming out of high school, don't look at college in the whole scope of: this is what I
need to do freshman year, sophomore, junior, senior year. And I need to be transitioning into
resume writing and application to grad school. All of those things don't necessarily hit our
community in the same way it does for everybody else. We have to--and just me being able to
help some of the students. I mean, I really enjoyed that cause you're able to go through an online
process of signing up for classes. And now I could sit directly and talk to them through of, Hey,
let's take two hard classes, two easy classes and one medium class and that'll be your five classes.
Don't just put them all up here, you know? What they put out here for people to take is a skeleton
to work off of. You don't necessarily have to just take these classes in a row like that because
you're coming from a lower economic area, maybe from downtown San Diego, maybe they
didn't concentrate so much in mathematics. So now you need to take a few math classes before
you get to college math--then okay, that's fine! Now let's take that at a junior college or let's take
one of the lower maths we can, online. Let's take this, this, this, or how about this? Some of us
started to take classes together so we could help each other and not just be in a class by ourselves
and not have anybody to bounce ideas off of, or ask for assistance with our homework. And now
we can share a book. A lot of those things now we're able to happen because we had the space.
And I was just so happy to be able to help other students because I didn't have a difficult time
through school. I mean, I got all A’s and everything and a couple of B’s. That's all, that's what I
had the whole time, San Marcos. So, you know, I didn't have a problem with class whatsoever,
but I knew other people did so to be able to help people, and help them with papers and help
them with getting their courses together, help them with any remediation they needed. And it's
just to help your people. When that's your intent, it feels good to be able to do that. And I think a
lot of people got that out of the center too. Not just me.
Ayana Ford: What do you expect to see next for the Black Student Center?
Jake Northington: Hmm. That five-year anniversary! That's what I expect to see next. But I
mean, John (Rawlins III, Director of the Black Student Center) is doing such an amazing job,
this guy needs a Nobel peace prize. It's just so much that that's happening. It's almost (unclear) so
he does, he does a lot of work in collaboration with other (student identity and inclusion) centers.
So, so much collaboration has happened. It seems like he has that down pat, but for the center
itself, more programs! Like a wider touch in San Diego. We need to really get San Marcos on the
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
13
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
map in the same level as San Diego State. You walk around anywhere in San Diego County, and
everybody's heard of San Diego State. So it's an option. It's 13-year-olds that have heard of San
Diego State, so it's an option. We need to make CSU San Marcos and option for Black students.
So this means we have to do more promotion. We have to stretch out more to the middle schools
and high schools and getting the word out. We have to do more collaboration and more efforts to
do programming outside of the campus, or at least show ourselves outside of the campus and
people need to know that there's a Black hub of people at Cal State San Marcos. So that's one
thing that I would like to see that needs to happen. One thing that is in the works is the Black
alumni chapter. I started everything rolling with that and it just pulling people in to be a part of it
and everybody can play whatever role they choose. So to have a Black alumni network. Now we
have something for our graduates to fill a need. “I'm looking for employment. I am looking to go
to grad school, I'm looking to get a PhD. I'm looking to relocate.” Whatever, we need an alumni
network to help with that. So for us to not have our own alumni network would do us a
disservice. Just continuing to build that Black network up at San Marcos. So I paid my alumni
dudes. I'm full alumni, lifetime membership. Now I'm going to help support in any type of way I
can. So, let me see what else? I would like to see us have a bigger space. As our student
population is growing, we need a bigger space. These were, this was a very small room, and they
knocked the wall down to try to open it up a little bit. This was a very small prayer room before
it became the Black student center. It needs to be bigger space. I think they (other student centers
on campus) had more of an intention of this is going to be a space for this particular thing.
They're a little more wide open and they have a little more space. But when it came to the Black
Student Center, there was not a designated area. So they had to find a space and kinda adjust the
space to give to us, but it was just a smaller space. Well, the Black student population is growing.
We also need the space to be used by Black faculty and staff. I would like to see us get a bigger
space, much bigger space, at least three times. It's entirely too small. I would like to see the
center get a graduate assistantship. So like the rest of the spaces have, there should be a graduate
assistantship at the space and also a user space for, I would like to see more archives. And that's
the whole point of this project. That's why I--I mean, I don't know if they told you, but this was
my idea. I came up with this idea to add this project. After I was involved in another project I did
where I got interviewed and I was like, you know what? It would be great if we can do this for
the center, because this can't be lost. All of these things that so many, so many Black students
that came here did--maybe even the Black students way before us. And then some of their names
get lost and they don't get mentioned. We have to recognize all of the Black people that made the
effort to get us this space because this space is a foundation now. And while we have the time
and it's only been a couple of years, let's get that story told, let's put it out there, let's set the
foundation and let's keep building the archives of the space. So I would like all the Black
students, faculty and staff involved to be a part of this. This is something to look back to, like
this was done, this was established, and we all came together to make this happen. So that does a
lot of great work as far as inspiration. If you get a Black student as a freshman coming into the
school and they see this was done by Black students, faculty and staff came together to make this
happen. And it was just this recent, you know, three, four years ago. I mean that does, that does a
good job for inspiration. And you get to actually talk to the people who help make this happen?
That does a good deal of inspiring students to want to be active. And the more active you are as a
student, the more likely you're going to stay in school, more likely we're going to graduate. So
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
14
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
we want this to just keep cycling through and keep building and keep building. Those are some
of my thoughts as far as moving forward with the center.
Ayana Ford: To backtrack on what you said, do you know, do you have any connection with the
different leaders in this project and their contribution to the Black Student Center?
Jake Northington: Oh, oh you want to hear some names?
Ayana Ford: Yeah.
Jake Northington: Oh, okay. Well, (Tiffaney Boyd) the ASI (Associated Students Incorporated)
president and she was also, think she was president or vice president of BSU (Black Student
Union) at one point. So she's definitely--I mean, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't have the center.
Like we have some major names and, and, so her. Jamaéla Johnson, she was also an officer,
maybe vice president or president of the BSU at a point. They all kind of, you know, took turns
being the president. Everybody was the president at different times. And she was also at ASI.
Then we have Akilah Green who was (unclear) one point. And she was also an ASI. So you had
these three Black women at ASI during all of--they did most of the legwork, as far as the
paperwork, the resolution, the promotion of it, bringing this information to the BSU, letting us
know what's going on, the ins and outs of all of the meetings. Because I, you know, me as a
student and other students, we could go to some meetings, but we were not going all of the
meetings. You know? So as an ASI member, they were there for like every meeting and they had
other meetings with administration and stuff like that. That we were not going to. So they would
say, Wait this is the process, this is what's happening. Now. This is what's happening. Now, this
is what the student body can do. This, this, this, and this. And then they also established
partnerships with other people outside of the Black community on campus that helps support this
resolution. So, without those three we wouldn't have this space. I hope their picture goes up in
the center. That's one of the things I pushed for from day one, day one when the center opened
and I hope this eventually happens: their picture and their name should go up as far as these are
the most significant people, Black students (in the process of getting the Center), they should be
mentioned.
Ayana Ford: Speaking of programs, by the way, you had mentioned earlier, have you been
involved in making any programs specifically?
Jake Northington: Yeah, I was more events. More events. Some of the programming has been
more collaborative. It wasn't just a simple thing. And most of the programs are mimicking other
programs, because these are programs that need to exist in all of the centers. So like a mentorship
program, we made one for us. Or the tutoring program. Again, that's something that's needed
everywhere. Or you know, we--some of the ideas I came up with was, Hey, we need somebody
to come speak about this. We need somebody to come speak about this. We need somebody to
speak about this. So things we couldn't get people to speak about, like maybe historical context
things, or certain things as far as how, how we're affected by different weather patterns,
anything, whatever you want to think of. Art, Black art, or Black music, any not really a specific
major for somebody to speak about, maybe not. I started to create PowerPoint presentations and
create classes and go do the research myself. And then I would give some of these classes in the
Black Student Center to different faculty and staff and students. And different people would
Transcription by Ernest
15
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
come in and I would give the class right here on the big screen in the center. And you know, that
was something I was able to do, so I did quite a few of those. So as an individual, I did some of
those things, but everything else was pretty much a collaborative work. So Black Panthers, of the
Black Panther Party. People that still kind of live in the San Diego region that maybe worked in
Oakland or worked in the San Diego, L.A. region, when they were teenagers operating in the
Black Panther Party, those people came to speak. Creating events such as Black Women's
Appreciation. So that was, that was another event that I had a lot of hand into. I was like, We
should do this. Like we should appreciate all the Black faculty and staff. So we need to make an
event for Black faculty and staff, and then for the women, and kind of gave out and created our
own letters of recommendation or a letter of appreciation that was handed out to all of the
people. And then, and of course I was there taking pictures. So it was more about all of us sitting
together at the table and kind of tossing out ideas. Everybody kind of played a different hand in
that. And then the ideas that made sense, we got together and move forward. Ideas that maybe
didn't make so much sense, we kind of held it on for later. So that's kind of the process of how
that worked.
Ayana Ford: You also mentioned taking photographs at the events and such. So how do you
think that impacted the people around at the Black Student Center? Seeing themselves?
Jake Northington: That's, again, that's such a great impact because as of right now, there's a huge
picture in the center right now covering one of the walls. And it's a picture I took of one of the
Black students that graduated. And it's just--it may be the biggest impact. Because as we know,
just visibility, you know, positive promotion and propaganda of Black students, when you go on
that website for any (unclear) that pop up, almost are never Black. You know, when you walk
through the halls and you see the pictures on the walls, they're just, you may not ever see a Black
person. When you just walk around campus, it just may never happen. So, you don't feel as
invested or as included in your own campus. So to see yourself in these photos, to see yourself
on the wall, it just really emboldens people to want to be here, to love the choice that they made
for being at that school. And it just helps them enjoy school a lot more. I saw so many eyes light
up or when I would take pictures at the event, I would make a slideshow and then it would be up
on the screen, just rotating all day. When people walked in, they would eat lunch or hang out or
do a little homework or whatever they did, and it would just rotate. And then on the regular, right
after the event, two or three days later, everybody's in the center, like, Where's the photo, where's
the photos? And then they're looking through and everybody's pointing and laughing and go, Oh,
remember this, remember this? It just keeps adding to the enjoyment and experience of just being
there and being on the campus. I mean, I really love (unclear). I think it just, it just, it helps in a
way that you can't even measure. So to have pictures of yourself, enjoying college with other
Black students here, it's immeasurable.
Ayana Ford: Are there any other questions I should have asked that I did not?
Jake Northington: (laughs) Let me see. Maybe, I don't know. What are we doing now? Are we
actively doing the things to continue with the mission statement? Has the mission statement
changed? Are we, are we on the mission right now? Do we have a new mission now, now that
it's been three-plus years?
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
16
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Ayana Ford: Hmm. So what do you think? What's the new mission-Jake Northington: Or something like that.
Ayana Ford: So what do you think-Jake Northington: I think the same mission. Yeah. I think the same mission should continue. And
I think there is a new mission though. So a new mission would be to get more Black people hired
as staff and faculty on campus. Being a student there over the years, a lot of the Black students
that graduated, they're gone, that's it. You don't see them again. We don't get a lot of Black
students hired now back into the campus. But I do see this from other groups. And then I see this
across all other campuses and colleges, universities. We need to get a push for our Black
graduates to be rehired back into their alma mater of CSU San Marcos. I think that needs to
happen. The school is getting bigger. So since I left, they built a couple more dorms. They built
like the dining facility. They built quite a few more; the Extended Learning Building, think
they're going to build another parking structure. So as these things continue to increase so should
our Black faculty and staff and student population. I'd like to see a push to get the campus more
involved in making those things happen, because that shouldn't be a job just put on us. The
campus should be involved in the recruitment of Black students and the hiring of more Black
faculty and staff. We don't need to be an exchange situation where, okay, we lost three Black
faculty members. We're going to go hire two. It shouldn't be happening like that. We should be
expansively growing as--as while the campus is growing. So that definitely needs to happen. And
I’d like to see a lot more support from the campus, as far as the other students go, and other
faculty. Black Student Center events–we should be able to look around and see a sea of people
that are not Black. We should see the support of everybody who professes to support all students.
Then you can reflect your support by showing up. So we have a few people from the Dean of
Students, we got a few people from the other centers that have been consistently supporting the
Black Student Center the whole time, but we don't see a grand amount. We don't see large
amounts. To have 17,000 plus people on campus, we should see some of that when there was a
Black Student Center event, just like it is when there's an event for another center or event for
another space or event for somewhere else. That same support of showing up. I'd like to see that
happen moving forward. And that should be a point of emphasis because that's only going to
keep growing us even at a higher rate.
Ayana Ford: So how do you think that the campus can reach out some more? You had mentioned
before through middle schools and high schools. So you have any other ideas of how they can
reach out more to Black students?
Jake Northington: Yes. The Office of Communications could do a (technical difficulties). I think
that has changed now. When I was there, I didn't see it, see it as much, but I still get the emails. I
see it a little bit more right now, so that's good. And they can keep pushing the events. As the
Black Student Center or the Black Student Union, or other Black clubs and organizations that are
putting on events, the Office of Communications can do a great job with supporting those events
by promoting them on all the digital signages and all the flyers. ASI could do a better job of
supporting, the USU could do a better job. So just support us by promoting our events when we
put them out there. Great help. Instead, Black students having to go person to person to try to get
somebody to show up to the Black Student Center events. And that's a struggle that not every
other group has specifically. Some people may, some people may not, but that really hinders the
Transcription by Ernest
17
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Black Student Center’s effect--as far as it could have a greater effect if we got more people.
Everybody has to help us with that. That's not a burden that should just be put on the Black
students. And also we need to work on lowering that, those parking passes (Ford and
Northington laugh). That’s always a fight.
Ayana Ford: It really is. So over the years, you've seen over the years have you seen a giant shift
the way Black students are seen on San Marcos campus, through the Black Student Center?
Jake Northington: I wouldn't say giant shift. I can't really speak to that because everything that
we were facing on the campus, we pretty much still face. So I don't know if I can answer that
question. I've been away from the campus for like over a year now. I can’t really answer that.
But while I was there, it was the same wall in front of us the whole time I was there. So once I
left, I don't know how much that has changed. So the, like the comfort level of people, the
hesitance to help or support, or the hesitation to be around us as much. And I can't speak to how
much that's changed. I know some people in some areas have gotten a little more comfortable,
but as an overall campus, I don't know about that. I dunno. I have though--I mean, the new
president seems like she's doing a good job and it seems like it's on track for that to happen, so I
would say I would put it that way. It seems like they're on the track, on the right track.
Ayana Ford: (technical difficulties, interview stopped recording) So, do you, are you able to see
the record button now?
Jake Northington: Nope. But if you’re-Ayana Ford: It's saying recording on my side. Do you see?
Jake Northington: This recording? I hope you get-Ayana Ford: Okay. It says it's back to recording. Did the box come up for you?
Jake Northington: Nope.
Ayana Ford: Okay. It's recording. So I want to go back a bit on your photography, on how you
talked about taking photos for the Black Student Center. So you had mentioned that you had
books in the Black Student Center.
Jake Northington: Yes. Yes.
Ayana Ford: So what was then, so what were the books in the Black Student Center?
Jake Northington: I'm glad you asked that, I've got them right here, since we're talking about it. I
didn't, I didn't think we were going to talk about it, but since we gonna talk about it and let's talk
about it. So, again, this is a study I did through the Black Student Center for one of my classes.
So I took an independent study in my photography class, and I wanted to do similar to like a
yearbook, but for Black students on campus. So for the years to come, people would always
remember these times and that this happened and that this was around because we don't have a
concerted effort of: here are the archives of photos of Black people on this campus. So since that
doesn't exist, I was like, I'm going to start it. So the idea was every year to go around and capture
Transcription by Ernest
18
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
some very good photos, as much as I could, of just different Black people on campus and around
campus. And then I put a focus to it. Because I want it to add a social aspect to it. I wanted to
make a corrective measure. It's an attempt to make a correction of a social issue. So, and then all
the books go together. They create one sentence. So the titles of every book create one sentence.
So this is the first book. (Northington holds up a book to the camera, soon starts flipping through
its pages) It's called Hueman and it's spelled H-U-E meaning like, the hue or the tone or the skin
color. I can show you a few pictures throughout the book. And I created these books to kind of
change how people saw Black students on campus. And this was specific to the Black men. So,
walking around campus, a lot of (Black men) are considered, you know, something negative.
People love to use that same stereotypical word as thug or criminal, and, and we need to detach
those verbs and those negative nouns to black men.
So the idea for this book was, Hey, be yourself, be who you are, be what you are, and just sit
here and give me a natural calm, solemn look. And we want to capture that. And I wanted to also
show the campus. So a part of this was to show that the entire campus too. So we want to walk
around and show the campus different areas of the campus, all different. And these Black men
have a different mixture of ethnic backgrounds. And then we just wanted to go around and get a
little bit of everybody. And when they saw this book, (laughter) I mean, people lost their minds.
It's like, Oh, wow. Oh, wow. This is amazing. This is this. And that's the best part of it for me.
How well people received the book was the best part to me. So I went to add a positive adverb.
So when you saw this Black face of a Black man and you attach it to that adverb, this is kind of
how propaganda works. So propaganda, it can be positive or negative. When you see a news
article or a magazine and they put a picture and words, you combine that together and you get a
thought in your head and they could kind of help curb some stereotypes that people have of
Black men. So this one says philosophical. So I want you to be able to see this face and know
that this person is philosophical. And let's add that together. And I actually know most of the
people in his book. So this guy was--he worked in the art building and you know, that wouldn't
come across if people just use the stereotypes. And then this is a Polaroid picture of me in the
center, one of the first semesters working there. And in the book, I would put the thank yous and
then I would translate it into an African language, so it also becomes a teaching tool. So this
book is translated into Bantu and Bantu is spoken in South Africa by the Xhosa tribe, in Cape
town, South Africa. So, and then this was completed in 2017, the first year of the center, so that's
book one.
Well, man, I had to keep it going. I had to keep it going. I didn't think I was going to keep it
going, but everybody loved the book so much. It's like, All right, let me keep it going.
(Northington holds up another book) So then this is the women's book, and this is actually the
photo that's up in the center right now. So the big photo, it is on the wall in a Black Student
Center. And this is, I love this photo. So, Janeice Young that's who that is, Janeice Young. I
think she graduated in 2018? Yeah. Janeice Young. She worked in the-- So then I'll put a little
bit, a little poem here. That's only my words that I wrote. And then this book is for Black women
specifically. So I wanted to promote Black women being who they are, being them natural
selves, loving school with them smiling and enjoying life because I wanted to get rid of, or aleve
them in some out of the stereotype of being an angry Black woman. Of being loud or being
obnoxious. So we're--we want to get away from those types of stereotypes and that type of
negative casting. So then, just went around and taking all of these good photos. And I mean, they
took a while. Some of these opportunities were like, I would have to take seventy or eighty
photos to--and then pick out the one really good one that I liked. And I was able to enter some of
Transcription by Ernest
19
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
these in art competitions, which went pretty well. That photo is actually taken in the center early
on center. The center looks a lot different. So, you know, that's one of the archival pieces
anymore, its a lot different. So now these people have all different majors, again, all different
mixtures. Some of these people are from different countries around the planet. And I wanted--to
kind of this be like a promotional tool as well. So I started to bring these to the orientations as
well and show other students; “Look, look, you can be in the next book.” And it really inspired a
lot of students. And that's the SBSB (Social and Behavioral Sciences) building. So I just got all
positive reviews; everybody that was in the book, everybody that saw the book, everybody just
keeps saying positive things about it. So I think it was a good idea. It ended up being a great
idea. And some of these people worked in the center before, like both of them. So I think she's
graduating right now. She worked in the center. And then this is more archival footage. There's-the Extended Learning Building is now back here, and another dorm building that didn’t exist
then. And then this is one of the dramas--and this is one of the feeder campuses MiraCosta. So
it's a community college that feeds into this school. And then this was taken inside of the USU
(University Student Union). So it was right in front of the campus. I love it. I love it. And then
again, the teaching tool in this book, this was translated into Somali and it's spoken in Yemen,
Djibouti, Somalia, Kenya. And then I also get to get a little help from some of the students who
are from African countries, and they help translate. So it's a whole group effort. And then, that
book is called “Solar Amalgamations.”
And this is the third and final book (Northington holds up a third book). This is the one I most
recently completed before I left campus. And this book is called “We Are,” so the focus of this
book was to show us together. So first we had the book about the men and changing the negative
images in the book and the book about women and changing a negative stereotype. And then
now I want to bring these people together and show men and women together, you know,
enjoying a campus, the campus life, something that we rarely get to see Black students doing.
You may see some Black students in diversity photos, or something like that, students together
and some of these photos. So again, I put some nice little positive words and a little bit of a
poem. And then that's the front steps of the campus and you just got students walking around and
much of this looks like a commercial. It looks just like a, you know, a little magazine article or
something like that. And that's the feel I wanted to give off. I wanted people to be able to look
through here and just see, hey, just regular students. This is Keenan. He plays a guitar all the
time. And my man, Sam, he's a skateboarder. So we get to see a lot of these things. So ideally
enjoying campus together and that's and that's a really good photo. So I'm sure they're going to
look back on this ten, fifteen, twenty years from now and remember that day and what they were
laughing about. So, that's the point. I mean, I love it. You might recognize some of these people,
maybe, maybe not. That was the point of this book and, let's get to the end. Oh, there go--my
favorite two people right there, Ms. Marilyn (McWilliams), Ms. Ariel (Stevenson). You will be
interviewing them soon. Shamar. And then some of these students now work in the Black
Student Center. It's just a whole, well, just circle to circle. Kiki, Taj – he worked in the center for
a while. So we got a little bit of everybody. And then and at the end of each book, I always put a
photo of myself too, just to, you know, who the artist was. And this is actually a photo with two
photos from the previous book that's in the art show at the campus. They had an art show on
campus and they asked me to put my stuff in the art show. So I submitted it and they got picked
for some of the final pieces. A lot of students submitted and then mine got picked. And so it was
just a good reflection to show it in the book, actually a photo from the art show. And then this
Transcription by Ernest
20
2024-05-16
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
one was translated into Swahili. Swahili is spoken in Tanzania, Congo and Kenya as well, or
Rwanda and other places. So, and just show us there holding hands. And then all the--all three
books, the sentence that it completes is: “We are human solar amalgamations.” So those are the
three titles. “We are,” “Hueman,” and “Solar Amalgamations.” And that pretty much loosely
means, “We are stars.” That's what that means. And then that completes one project. And now
I'm going to move on to work on a different project for Black people.
Ayana Ford: So by keeping these archives, would you say that--how would you say that it
impacted, the art, I mean, the environment of the Black Student Center? Because you can go
back and look at the history, how do you think that impacted students?
Jake Northington: I think it makes students really feel good about who they are and what they
are. It just makes us feel good. It's like, Okay, I can do this too! And then it was just done last
year or the year before, or just, there's been a history of Black people before me that came here
as a freshmen or sophomore, and they made these things happen. I can also do it. These people
got involved and you start to see some of the same faces. Oh, she was also the president here.
She was also the vice president here. She was also in the Academic Senate. She did this, this,
this, and this. She graduated; she got these awards. If she can do it, So can I. If he can do it, so
can I.
So to continue to see people that look like you do these things at the same school, again, it's only
as inspiration. And it helps a lot of our students coming in to even give more effort, to be
involved, to be around, to start to do some of the work themselves and to--and now we can kind
of pull some of these people in to get into doing things as such as going to graduate school, or
now they might be more apt to accepting help in the areas that they need help in, because that
becomes a hurdle. A lot of students don't want to ask for help because they don't want to feel
unintelligent. They don't want to ask for support because they don't want to feel like they're in
poverty. And they don't want to feel judged. Well, that's a real thing. So if we can show a little
more, if we can speak a little more about our experiences so we have--we get to show up as a
graduate or as a senior and say, Hey, look, I had to stretch out a few dollars throughout the
month. I had tough, tough times in this particular history class or that particular class. This is
why I reached out for help. I went to the food pantry for this. I went to the tutoring lounge for
this. I went to this for this. Now that allows a link in a chain to be made, to help Black students
succeed more when that's the point: to keep them here and to graduate them and prepare them for
life after the university. So I think just the pictures up, just having the photos add to that. Each
thing we do on campus for the Black students and for Black Student Center all adds to the
overall goal of keeping students there, recruiting students and graduating students, it all adds.
And now building that Black alumni chapter. Now we take it even a step further. So every part of
this process was necessary. Every single person that was involved was necessary, and I just think
they all should be mentioned and named. And whether it has a big plaque made to put
everybody's name on it, or we definitely need to get that Tiffany, Jamaéla, and Akila photo and
plaque up in the center, you know, stuff like that before too many years, it'd be forgotten. You
don't need these events or these situations to be forgotten. These people should be remembered.
And everybody needs to know that this occurred. Because we have to think back: 1989 the
school was established. There have been many Black people to come to this school since 1989.
Well, since then many Black people have tried to make change on this campus. We may never
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
21
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
know their names. We may never know the change they was trying to create. We may never
know about the five, eight, ten attempts to get a Black Student Center, but we can't let stuff like
that continue. We need to reach back and try to find those stories and we need to establish
something to move forward. That's what makes--we're so lucky that we got Gezai (Berhane) here
because Gezai’s the first Black graduate, so we could kind of get some of those stories from then
to now. And we can kind of connect the 30-year path of this campus and Black action on this
campus. And we can connect those thirty years together and kind of tell that story and kind of
add and add to it, add to that. I really love that about this project and I'm just so happy it was able
to happen and that people want to be involved with this. Because this is going to affect the Black
community forever on this campus.
Ayana Ford: Yeah, absolutely agree. Well, that is all the questions I had. Do you have any more,
anything else you would like to add?
Jake Northington: Yeah. I’d like to thank Ms. Marilyn McWilliams and Ms. Ariel Stevenson,
because I probably would not still have stayed on the campus, and I might've transferred, if it
wasn’t for people like them. Because they add a good element of support that you may never get.
You know, because when I got here, we didn't have a center. It's (hard) to find spaces to get
some, you know, just to be able to go talk out ideas, to be able to go, just relax a bit, to get to
step away from the campus while you're still on campus. So, I was able to go visit their office
and just sit down and get some little, I guess they would call it counseling or mentorship or
whatever people describe that as, but to be able to just sit down and just talk to them and be like,
All right, this is what's going on campus right now. This is happening. This is happening. And
they were able to give me (advice), Hey, you can go here to get that handled. You can talk to
this. You can go to this meeting. You know, to have people to be able to point me in the right
directions to get some of these things accomplished. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be able to
walk into all these directions. And I probably wouldn’t have been as involved as I was. When
they encourage all of the Black students--and those are two staff members that show up to
everything that's been done by the Black Student Center and by the BSU. And they've all, they've
consistently shown up, those two. Most of the Black students have probably seen them or spoken
to them or even met with them quite a few times. So without them, it would be a totally different
story, so (laughs) I can't leave anybody out.
Ayana Ford: Well, thank you so much for allowing me to interview you for this project. And
thank you so much.
Jake Northington: Thank you!
(interview concluded but then started again)
Ayana Ford: So Mr. Northington what is your major? What was your major at (California State
University) San Marcos.
Jake Northington: So, I came to San Marcos in the spring 2016 and I graduated fall 2019. So my
major was Visual and Performing Arts with an emphasis in art and technology. My first minor is
Ethnic Studies.
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
22
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Ayana Ford: So what got you into photography?
Jake Northington: Just the class that was on my list. My intention was to do digital art and media.
So that's the point of signing up for that program. But while in the program, one of the class
options to take was a photography class to meet some of the requirements. So I took that class
and I just liked it. And it seemed doable and it was not as hard as I thought photography was, at
least not for me. I thought it was more difficult than what it was. So the teacher did a very good
job at teaching us how to use any camera so you don't have to just get one and that's it. She kind
of showed us how to use all cameras of all brands and how to manipulate the camera and, you
know, just all the lighting techniques and everything we needed to use. And then in addition to
that, CSU San Marcos has a great support system for all the areas of art. They have a music
studio, they have an art studio, they have a dance studio and they have a recording studio within
the library as well. Having all of those options, you're allowed to really practice your craft. I was
able to go check out studio time in the library on the first floor in the library and continue to just
take photos, take photos, do recordings and it allowed practice because I saw what I wanted
things to look like in my head, but I couldn't physically do it yet with the camera. Just having this
person as a teacher and then having those elements available on this campus, it allowed me to
now get time to sharpen these things up and get my photos to the point where I wanted them to
look like. And it really, I just--I was excited from the beginning because all I thought about was
photographing Black people on campus. Like, I know we need this. This has to be. And then I
had to go sell it, like, okay, who's gonna buy this? And I don't mean sell it as far as money. I
mean, sell the idea of putting this up on campus. There were no photos up of Black people on
campus when I showed up. So I was--and then you walk around another year, goes by. And then
I saw one picture and this was a Black woman who was a track athlete on the campus. And then
that's the only thing I saw. I'm like, We have to change that. My whole idea was: I got to learn
how to use this so I could put out all of these things and I can show up to all these events and
take the pictures, because everybody's just taking pictures on their phones or something like that.
And it's not, you know, it's not enough. People just have personal photos on their phones. I'm
like, No, I have to do this. So I actually went around and took pictures, for ASI, for all types of
groups on campus, and I just kept getting practice, kept getting practice. By the time the center
opened, I had a good year in. And then I was like, Okay, I think I can start to help. And then I
started. Just kept doing it, kept doing it, the whole idea behind that first class was, I need to do
promotion of Black people because I have to put these positive images of Black people out here.
So, and it just, you know, some of the photos I ended up using for flyers, some of them, I ended
up using for some of my PowerPoint presentations in different classes and it just continued to
grow and continue to grow. And I still use a lot of them today and now everybody loves it. And
then a lot of the students got free photos out of it. Because people like, “Oh, I want a photo
shoot. I want a photo shoot.” So now I'll go do a little photo shoot, give them all the photos. And
then we sit together and go, okay which, give me the top three that you like. And I'll pick
between one of those three to go into the book. And that's how those things happen. So I let them
help me decide which photos actually went into the book because this is going to promote you
and show you. You want to show yourself how you want to show yourself. I love it. So that's
what got me into photography. And then I later went on to just work professionally with a couple
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
23
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
of groups in San Diego for about four or five years. And it only stopped because you know,
everything going on right now (referring to the COVID-19 pandemic). But, I just continued to do
photography.
Ayana Ford: Well, any, do you have anything else to add? Anything you can think of?
Jake Northington: Well, I would say once we got the Black Student Center, it also opened up job
opportunities for Black students that didn't exist before. So previously Black students were in
competition with everybody else on campus to work everywhere for student workers. So--some
people may have reservations about Black people or some people may believe in stereotypes.
And any other reason that hinder Black students from having the same job opportunities on
campus as other students. When we walk, you walk around and see all these USU (University
Student Union) workers, see all of the people working in different departments. Again, you just
don't see a lot of Black students. You don't see, you know, three, four or five of them and that's
it. Well having a Black Student Center now opened up more job opportunities and now opened
up spaces for Black students to come in and practice being a professional worker in the world,
because maybe you push buggies for Ralphs (supermarket chain). Maybe you load the groceries
at Walmart, but you haven't done a professional job in a professional setting. You haven't done
report writing. You haven't put on events. So this now opens up an arena for Black people and
Black students to kind of practice some of these jobs skills or even have a job opportunity on
campus. That became a big thing that didn't exist before. So now over the years, Black students
now have an area, Hey, I can apply here and I might have a good chance to get a job. And this
might--you might have a better chance getting a job at the Black Student Center and then
everywhere else on campus combined. So it opened that up.
And then a lot of other students kind of what, that may be not have worked before, they wanted
to work. And they could have been here freshman, sophomore year, didn't care to work, but then
by junior year they were like, Oh, you know what? I want to work in the Black Student Center.
They putting on all these amazing events. I want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of the
creation. I want to build a part of this. Some students actually did that. And then some students
came to the campus with the idea of working in the Black Student Center. Because you know,
them and their parents were going over this like, Okay, you're going to stay on campus. You-this is going to be your major. This is going to be a class period. What are your opportunities for
working? The center is now listed in the opportunities for on-campus jobs. So I think that was a
great help as well. And it's still. Right now (the BSC) have served as a great help over the time,
because look at how many Black students have worked in the center now over the years. All of
those students would not have a job, at least not there. So now it'd be a little more difficult for
them to work somewhere else without that opportunity. And these skills just go along with the
rest of your life. Now, and I just think it built, it just builds a lot of love and comradery within
the Black community on campus, which then in turn, turns into a lot more Black people walking
around, feeling better about themselves, and maybe they have a better day or maybe their grades
are a little bit better. Maybe they don't have as hard a time studying. And maybe they feel better
just about walking around and being on campus. So these things really have a great effect. And
the Black Student Center is just, that's the greatest place on campus. I would eat my meals in
there when I was on campus. I'm getting my food, I'm coming to eat here. So people started
doing that. People would normally go off campus and go to some fast-food restaurant and hang
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
24
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
out, eat, and then come back to campus. Not anymore. They go pick their food up and come back
to eat it in the center to be around people and to talk and, you know, have a little fun and play a
few games or something before they go back to class. So it just is building community. And that,
again, that's another thing that just can't be measured. I hope it's here until the end the time. We
should have the Black student center. And I'm trying to come back to the 25th anniversary, to the
70th anniversary. Lastly, I'm just ready for next year to have this (project of oral histories)
presented. However its going to be presented by video or audio, however, is coming out,
transcribed. However it comes out. I'm very excited for year five (of the BSC’s existence) and all
of the people that has been a part of making it happen. And I just, I thank everybody, and I'm
glad my idea came to fruition and we got a nice little grant to make this happen. This was great,
it happened pretty fast too. I didn't yet thank the library for their help in making it happen.
Ayana Ford: Thank you so much for allowing me to interview you today. Thank you.
Jake: Alright. Alright. We good now?
(interview concluded but then started again)
Ayana Ford: So, do you know of the people who push for the Black Student Center specifically,
like a couple of names and how it came to be?
Jake Northington: Yeah. I mean, I can give you some names. I can't name everybody, but I
recognize some of the people because they were there throughout the whole time, but again,
some of the students were seniors already. So, you know, they did what they could and then
graduated and were gone, and then some of the students were in and out and maybe not there all
the time. But a few of the students are the--there was these two twins. They were the current
BSU presidents during the time when we opened the space. And their names was Danni and
Darnesha, I think the last name is Thornton. Also have Ashton, you have another guy, Louis
Adamsel. You have, Marvin Cook who was later to BSU president. Like once the center
officially opened, he was the BSU president. You have Renee White. You have a lot of women
from a sorority that was there, so then we have, Darhra Williams; another one of the original
workers in the center. Think it was originally five or six workers in the center. You have another
name, Brandy Williams. Another lady; she went to a lot of ASI meetings to try to garner support
and push for the reason for us to have the center. We have--oh, there's just so many people.
That's about all I can think of right now, quickly off the top of my head. So there's others, there’s
others, but those are some of the main people that I would see constantly. And then there’s staff
members as well. So that was Black faculty and staff members as well, that assisted along the
way, Dilcie Perez. Of course, Mrs. Marilyn (McWilliams), Ariel Stevenson., so we have a lot of
staff members like that, that were assisting, (technical difficulties) so involved. Other than that, I
mean, you have to go back and look at pictures and kind of pull up some more names. Because
remember, this is years ago, you’re talking about 2016 when all of these things were happening
pretty big, so its been a few years-Ayana Ford: And so what programs did you help create and you're involved in, in some form?
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
25
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Jake Northington: Yes. So I came together with a guy, Louis Adamsel again, I came together
with him and we kind of talked about having a brotherhood student organization. So there was
nothing specific to Black men on the campus. Everything was just, you know, it was geared to
other people or groups. But there was nothing geared towards Black men. We talked about it for
a while and then we started it; he was the president. I was vice president. And the idea for that
was to assist the Black men. And again, with tutoring, mentorship, help guiding them through
being a student, help them out of trouble, help them with their classes, class selection, and just
help them in life skills that they maybe didn't get from growing up in whatever area they're
coming from. And if they did get it, it just helped them with some confidence, kind of put them
in positions to where they could speak more or be seen more, and just any type of support that
they needed. And that was kind of about the things we go through individually and how we could
collectively change those things. And this is--and some of those guys ended up in the book
(Hueman), so it's three or four of those guys went in the book, from the brotherhood. And we
started that in 2017 and this was--these are one of the things that has now attached to the center
as a program. And now it's called the Brotherhood Alliance. So now they're continuing it. And
that was the point, you know, because the student organization does as well or as bad as the
group of students that are there. Yeah. And then you get stretched thin trying to continue an
organization if the organization is not very big, so something that important needed to continue.
So I presented this to John Rawlins (III, previous director of the Black Student Center) and he
liked the idea, he wanted to continue it. So, and then they call it the Brotherhood Alliance and
they still even meet right now. And I go to some of the meetings now and they just continue it.
And they have another group, a group of guys that are the president and vice-president. So he
(Rawlins III) got another group of guys that's keeping it going and, and they're active on campus
and hey, I love it. I'm glad it's--I'm glad it's moving.
Another organization that I got started was the Black Sistahood. So we had a Black Brotherhood,
Black Sistahood. So we want to have them both. You don't just, you know, I'm not into just one
side of the coin. We have to help both sides because there are particular things that we go
through, you know, that needs to be addressed. Well, I couldn't be in the president of the Black
Sistahood, you know, I don't think that should be led by me. So I continued to pick different
women on campus that I thought would fit the bill. And I wasn't getting a lot of a response back.
So it took a while to kind of find somebody that wanted to take the mantle of that. But in the
meantime, it was like the Black Brotherhood and Black Sistahood was housed within the Black
Brotherhood. So we would still help everybody. We would still help and support the different
Black women on campus, but we were not going to lead a conversation or lead a program
specifically for Black women. So it was just kind of housed within the Black brotherhood. And
then we would do it in a different way and we would go support the Black women, the Black
womens’ sorority events and things like that. So once I finally ran into a person, Sunni Bates, she
was very excited about this and she wanted to be the leader of it. And I was like, Okay, here we
go! Now we got somebody that wants to lead that. So she became the president and then I didn't
want to hold any type of position because that's for them, specifically. So then we went out and
recruited different members and we got a bunch of ladies together who were not active in any
other groups and it was like, Okay, here's another, here's another club to push Black people--help
Black people to push themselves out of the idea of this is all we have and that's all it is, anything
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
26
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
outside of that is wrong. And I think some people on different campuses really feel like you
should only have a BSU. Anything outside of that is challenging the BSU. Well I didn't stand for
that. I was like, We have to change that idea. I draw. We need to have a Black art club. These
people love movies. We need a Black movie club. So these are the things we pushed around. We
started to have Black movie nights. Then we have you know, a night for this, a night for that.
They started a dance group. Some ladies had a dance club that they started and there's even a
new dance club right now. So just to keep pushing the idea, we can have more, we can have
fifteen or twenty Black student clubs. So this gives a vast array of things for Black students to be
active in. When you only give them one or two, that doesn't do enough. We're all different. We
all got different likes and wants and needs. So we need to spread it out, that's the other part of
having a Black Brotherhood or Black Sistahood. So--and then I just operated in both of those.
And again, I'm on my way out. Then John, John Rawlins was like, Hey, is this something we
could kinda take on from y'all because both of y'all are going to be leaving. So I spoke with him
(Rawlins III), Sunni spoke with him, and then now they have—I think they call it the Circle of
Sisters. I think that's what it's called, something like that, or something close to that. So now they
have that with the Brotherhood Alliance, and these are now programs housed in the Black
Student Center. That didn't happen before. So now offering multiple clubs. And then now they're
housed in the center versus if a few active students leave, these things may get thin or spread
apart or go away, and we don't need those things to happen. So we need things that are constant
and constant, and that are continually going to help the students and support the students. So I
was really happy to see that happen. And then, you know, now you don't have to put that burden
on a new student, showing up to try to collect the Black brothers together, collect the Black
sisters together. You don't have to put that burden on them. Now they have a vehicle to operate
out of, it just gives more help to a need.
So then through all of these different clubs and organizations--remember, I'm an art student--so
I'm not only taking pictures, I'm doing sculptures. I did a couple of sculpture things that I did for
ASI and, and that I did for the Women's Center. And then the Women's Center over at the time
changed their name to the Gender Equity Center, but it was the Women's Center when I got
there. And then so I did this sculpture piece in collaboration with them and with ASI around
saving straws. So the straw campaign happened during I was, while I was at the school. And they
wanted to stop the use of as much plastics and put it together to create a sea animal, which was a
sea turtle to show: look at how this affects the marine and aquatic life. And we used that to kind
of help push sustainability and to end the uses of straws on campus and all these other things. So,
I was able to use my artwork and all these dynamic ways, and then now I started to design logos
and shirts for clubs and organizations outside of the Black Student Center and in a Black Student
Union. And then that just led to so many more opportunities. I began to photograph events for
the diversity office (Office of Inclusive Excellence), for ASI, clubs and just different things.
And then at the end it was time for me to make my own. I've done so much for so many other
people. And then just so many people, I just got so much good feedback from a lot of the t-shirts
and stuff that I made. And a lot of the designs I was like, I guess it's time for me to make my
own, I'm on my way out of here so I'm just going to start making some of my own stuff. So then
I started making Brotherhood and Sistahood t-shirts and hoodies and sweaters and all jackets,
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
27
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
different things like that. And I'll just keep testing out things, keep redesigning things. That's a
lot of the stuff I did in my last semester. And then that ended up with their own t-shirt line. And
now I make my own stuff, so I love it (Northington holds up the hoody he is wearing). And some
of these things have now been sold to different colleges and universities. They contact me and I,
you know, I have my own LLC, my own business. And I work with other Black student centers
and diversity departments, and they buy stuff in bulk to give out to Black students across the San
Diego and LA County. And so those ideas and all of that work that I was able to do, and things I
was able to be a part of, and working with the different groups, and just creating and sparking
new ideas led to this; I use this to help pay for graduate school as well. So it's a nice full circle of
work.
Ayana Ford: Yeah. And then you still came back to San Marcos to help us with this project.
Jake Northington: (laughter) Well, they haven’t let me go. So, I've done a few projects even after
graduating. Once I graduated, I still did about four or five other projects post-graduation.
Ayana Ford: So like, for example, for this Black student Center project, what was your direct
role in getting this made?
Jake Northington: Well my direct role was it was my idea to begin with, and I don't know if
anybody’d thought of this before. Maybe they did, but it--and they weren't able to make it
happen. And it took the right people. So like Sean Visintainer (Head of Special Collections,
University Library), like John Rawlins (III, Director of the Black Student Center), it, you know,
it took the right people. So the right people were here at the same time. And once the ideas got
around, they were interested. Sean was interested. John was interested when I gave the idea to
him. So then they started to spread out and build the team that we needed. We got a team of like
five people. And with that team now, it's like, All right, let's get through the planning stage. So
we spent six, eight months planning through the summer, through the winter to get through the
planning stage. And then now reach out to hire students, point out all different people we needed
to be involved as far as telling stories like this. And just to watch it all happen is it's just, I guess
that might be more satisfying, I get to actually watch my idea happen like that. And I just hope
everybody really can get something out of this, or at least get close to what I'm getting out of it.
Because it's, I mean--to be a student that operates on campus and you're trying to be active and
you're trying to make changes for your community? And then to see something like that happen
when I knew it took years to get the Black Student Center! Years to even crack the door open.
But then now this situation happened within a matter of a year, year and a half. And I'm like, Oh,
this is, you know, this is great! And people are more apt to help and support--the email went out
about, Hey, we're looking for students to be a part of this project and to do interviews and this,
this, this, and then to start getting feedback like that, you know, I don't know if this could have
happened in the same manner eight years ago, seventeen years ago. You know, the campus
climate, the activities were a little different, so it just the right time and the right people. And
we're able to pull this off. I mean this definitely on my resume (laughs). So it was one of the
highlights on my resume to even have my name attached to this. So it--say after that, this is
definitely up there. I think my, I like my books a little more, but, but this is up there.
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
28
2024-05-16
�JAKE NORTHINGTON
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2021-04-06
Ayana Ford: Well I’m glad you’re able to be a part of it.
Jake Northington: Yeah.
Ayana Ford: Thank you.
Transcription by Ernest
Cisneros and Sean Visintainer
29
2024-05-16
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Transcripts
Description
An account of the resource
Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Northington, Jake. Interview transcript, April 6, 2021.
Description
An account of the resource
Jake Northington is a California State University San Marcos alumni. He graduated with his degree in Photography in 2019. Jake worked in the Black Student Center and created photography that hangs in the Center. In this interview, Jake discusses his childhood growing up in East St. Louis, Illinois, how and when he came to CSUSM in 2016, and his involvement with the creation of the Black Student Center.
This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Black Student Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jake Northington
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ayana Ford
Ernest Cisneros
Sean Visintainer
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-04-26
Subject
The topic of the resource
Artists, Black
California State University San Marcos. Black Student Center
California State University San Marcos -- Students
Portrait photography
Student success
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
East Saint Louis (Ill.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Jake Northington
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives@csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. Persons wishing to quote, publish, perform, reproduce, or otherwise make use of an item in the Library’s collections must assume all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of the copyright holder. The researcher assumes full responsibility for use of the material and agrees to hold harmless the University Library, and California State University, against all claims, demands, costs, and expenses incurred by copyright infringement or any other legal or regulatory cause of action arising from the use of the Library's materials. In assuming full responsibility for use of the material, the researcher also understands that the materials they examine may contain Social Security numbers, other personal identifiers, and/or sensitive material on potentially living and identifiable individuals (e.g., medical, evaluative, or personally invasive information). The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NorthingtonJake_FordAyana_2021-04-19_transcript
Activists and activism
Art and artists
Black experience
Black Student Center Oral History Project
CSUSM history