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California State University San Marcos University Library
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
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Michael De Maria
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Chanel Bradley
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=BradleyChanel_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-14.xml
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RED Campaign;Social Justice Summits;Cross-Cultural Center peer mentorship
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5.4 Bradley, Chanel. Interview April 14th, 2023. SC027-35 01:12:01 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection Campus oral histories CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center Education, Higher Human rights Civil rights Civil rights demonstrations -- California -- San Marcos RED Campaign ; Social Justice Summits ; Cross-Cultural Center peer mentorship Chanel Bradley Michael De Maria BradleyChanel_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-14.mp4 1:|11(3)|19(12)|31(6)|39(13)|49(3)|56(13)|63(2)|75(13)|88(9)|99(1)|108(5)|116(13)|129(12)|136(17)|147(10)|157(2)|167(15)|181(5)|193(7)|204(14)|217(11)|228(3)|240(7)|252(2)|262(13)|273(11)|285(3)|297(5)|308(7)|322(2)|329(14)|341(2)|352(11)|364(12)|375(10)|386(17)|397(8)|409(4)|420(6)|432(3)|440(10)|450(10)|460(5)|473(8)|485(5)|493(12)|502(3)|511(12)|521(2)|531(8)|540(5)|550(6)|563(3)|576(15)|588(2)|600(5)|611(2)|619(6)|633(2)|644(11)|654(14)|665(9)|679(11)|693(19)|704(9)|720(3)|730(8)|741(12)|750(11)|760(9)|771(11)|798(3)|800(1) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d4ea6df2420ccf154c84a6af1258992a.mp4 Other video 0 Interview Introduction Michael De Maria interviews Chanel Bradley in regards to her background and experience at California State University San Marcos. 0 24 Childhood Bradley discusses growing up in a predominately white community in Orange County and how she formed community there. 0 152 Choosing to attend CSUSM and get involved in Cross-Cultural Center (CCC) Bradley's parents wanted her close to home so she chose to attend CSUSM and live in the dorms. She originally attended the CCC due to all of its free resources but soon enjoyed the diverse community it created. Bradley soon began volunteering due to obtaining a misdemeanor but eventually applied as a peer educator at the center a few years later. Sara Sheikh ; Social Justice Summit ; multi-ethnic 0 458 First Social Justice Summit Experience/ Finding Her Voice Bradley discusses how as growing up she would often suppress her identity as a person of color to fit in. By attending the Social Justice Summit it gave her ways to express herself and to feel empowered within her identity. empowered ; Social Justice Summit 0 736 Using Her Creativity to Drive the CCC Bradley discusses how her creative nature was able to be put into practice at the CCC. She used games and slogans to help educate and encourage students to find their power. power ; impactful ; peer mentorship 0 1124 Staff Relationship/ Developing leadership skills Bradley explains how supervisors and staff at the CCC had a close connection due to cultural similarities and beliefs. She explains how when there was a change in management at the CCC, Bradley became the one that guided the new supervisor. This helped her to gain leadership skills and relationship skills as well. leadership ; leader ; relationships ; mentor ; Floyd Lai 0 1640 Creating a Welcoming Space Bradley explains how her favorite memory was being able to create an ambiance that made students feel represented and safe. welcoming ; ambiance ; atmosphere ; guidance 0 1760 Reviving Black Student Union Bradley discusses how she revived the Black Student Union after its inactivity. She explains how her experience with the CCC provided her with resources and knowledge to begin an organization. She fixed the bylaws, encouraged protests, and recruited members for the board. protests ; BSU ; organization ; Black Student Union 0 2364 The role of the Cross-Cultural Center Bradley explains how the Cross-Cultural Center aids various organizations on campus by equipping, empowering, and helping with self expression and representation. empower ; equip ; educate ; represent 0 2674 Impact of the Cross-Cultural Center/ Finding the Courage Bradley explains how the Cross-Cultural Center opened her eyes up and helped her mature politically and socially. It gave her the passion to speak up and educate others about social issues that are often suppressed. politics ; serve 0 3045 Current Direction of the Cross-Cultural Center Bradley explains how the growth of our campus should also be focused and centered on the students needs. either being socially, politically or financially focused. She talks about how professors should remain personable and bring current situations into the curriculum. activism ; identity ; allyship ; protesting 0 3387 Underrepresented Communities on Campus Bradley discusses how the undocumented experience becomes adjacent to the Chicano student movement. She recalls the Et Cetera club, a student organization that created space for those who may not identify with other organizations at that time. undocumented ; under represented ; duality ; Et Cetera club 0 3616 Lessons Learned From Cross-Cultural Center Bradley was taught that not only she had power and leadership potential but how to use it as well. She exercised her power by speaking up against a paper writing false claims towards minority groups. She also discusses how she learned to recharge as an affective leader. power ; protest ; minority ; self preserve 0 3965 How to Practice Your Voice Bradley explains how one should educate themselves, and get involved in social groups that represent them as a minority. To stand up for what one believes in and to not let a box or label define you. 0 Chanel Bradley is a California State University San Marcos alumni. She graduated with her degree in Women's and Gender Studies in 2012. Chanel worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2012 and was involved in various social identity related centers on campus. In this interview, Chanel discusses her experience as a peer mentor at the Cross-Cultural Center and her recollections of the center during her time at CSUSM. Bradley was also involved in the Women's Center [now Gender Equity Center]. In her interview, Bradley also recalls how she revived the campus Black Student Union, protested the campus (unauthorized) student newspaper, The Koala, and came into her power. Michael De Maria: My name is Michael De Maria. I’m a graduate research assistant
 ; with Kellogg Library, I'm here today with Chanel Bradley discussing her
 ; involvement in the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM (California State University
 ; San Marcos), as well as the Black Student Union. So to kick things off, Chanel,
 ; I just wanted to ask about your background. I want you to talk about the
 ; community that you grew up in and kind of describe what that was like.
 ; 
 ; Chanel Bradley: I grew up in Orange County. I was raised by a single parent, so
 ; I moved a lot. And like for example, in high school, I went to two different
 ; high schools (laughs). If you don't know about Orange County, it's like
 ; predominantly a white
 ; 
 ; county. And we lived in a predominantly white area, so I was normally like one
 ; of few that looked like myself. And so I kind of quickly learned what it was
 ; like to be, other, and found myself kind of like congregating with other others,
 ; (laughs). And that sort of became my community. Typically, I would spend my time
 ; with like Latino and like Black students and like even at my church, like, I
 ; went to Saddleback until I was about sixteen. I was in the choir, and my
 ; grandmother was the choir director. And Saddleback is like a megachurch in
 ; 
 ; Orange County. So she was kind of like a local celebrity (laughs). So like
 ; people would know, like, about our family or about her. And so there was a lot
 ; of, of colorful acquaintances. But I would say the people that I felt kind of
 ; most comfortable with how to share like cultural experience.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: I see. And going forward from there, what led you to attend CSU San
 ; Marcos and get involved with the CCC (Cross-Cultural Center)?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So I was originally gonna go to a school in Florida. And my dad, he
 ; didn't want me to leave the state (laughs), so it was more of a forced choice.
 ; And so, I applied to other
 ; 
 ; colleges and universities in the state. And I think we ended up picking Cal
 ; State (San Marcos) because, of the distance, I think at the time he was living
 ; in, Rancho Santa Margarita. And so, it was very easy to kind of like go home on
 ; like weekends or something like that. But I actually ended up living in the
 ; dorms and so I didn't go home too often, but I started going to the
 ; Cross-Cultural Center (laughs), as most college students' motivation is free
 ; things (laughs). So the Cross-Cultural Center had free food. And so, my friends
 ; 
 ; and I were always like trying to find the next thing that had free food. So I
 ; went to an event, I don't even remember what the event was called. And they had
 ; so many like student services, like I could print for free. You know, they had
 ; books that I could borrow for classes if I needed to. And, I think for me being
 ; multi-ethnic, like I don't really fit into a particular box. And so it was nice
 ; to go to a place where like, oh, I can like get like, you know, experiences from
 ; all walks of life. So, I think that's kind of what--why I kept coming back.
 ; 
 ; And then I
 ; 
 ; served on the committee. What did I do? (whispers) It's, it's, it's like what,
 ; almost 20 years (laughs) ago, so I have to kind of like think about it. But, I
 ; remember either like going to the Cross-Cultural Center director (laughs). I, I
 ; was a very adventurous college student, so I got into some trouble. I ended up
 ; (laughs) being convicted of a misdemeanor and my last semester of my freshman
 ; year, I couldn't finish my exams because I was waiting for trial. So,
 ; 
 ; I think what had happened was I ended up volunteering so that I could gain work
 ; experience after that incident that I had. And so, I believe Sara Sheikh had
 ; suggested that I assist her with the Social Justice Summit. And so I created
 ; some of the marketing material for it. And then, I believe, maybe a year or so
 ; after that, I ended up participating on the committee again. And I believe that
 ; same year,
 ; 
 ; might have been the same year or maybe, you know, few years after I applied to
 ; be a peer educator for the center. So that was kind of like the beginnings of
 ; involvement (laughs) with the Cross-Cultural Center.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Got it. So, it sounds like the CCC just provided a positive space for
 ; you to inhabit and kind of rebuild some elements of your life after that
 ; incident. Which I think is super, super cool. Regarding the projects that you
 ; worked on, I'd love to hear more about the Social Justice Summit, since you were
 ; involved in the very first one (Bradley laughs). So, if you could just take me
 ; through your experience with that, and just, you know, what, what it was like,
 ; what was discussed, and just giving me an image of what all occurred.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So, I think I remember what happened. I ended up, attending the first
 ; Social Justice Summit, as a participant. And I, (laughs) yeah, that's what
 ; happened. I remember. Okay. (laughs) I feel like as I'm talking, I'm remembering
 ; the timeline. So (laughs), pardon me if I'm like having to go back into the, the
 ; files of my brain.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: No, that's, that's good (both Laugh).
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah, so I, I was a participant. I attended the retreat with my
 ; boyfriend at the time. And--I would say I've always been like a fairly
 ; consciously aware person like, you know, growing up in a predominantly white
 ; area, and like knowing that I was not white,
 ; 
 ; was something that I knew. But I think as you--or at least as I grew up, you
 ; kind of learn how to adapt in those environments. And so, things that are
 ; probably like triggering or, you know, maybe the, not the most like PC thing to
 ; say, I would kind of say to fit in or whatever I was doing at the time. So when
 ; I went to the Social Justice Summit, it was really eye-opening ’cause they were
 ; talking about, like, individual identity. They were talking about oppression and
 ; marginalization, which again, like I knew, but I didn't know that it existed, in
 ; like different intersects.
 ; 
 ; And--they
 ; 
 ; also talked about like allyship. So I met a lot of people there that I still
 ; talk to today. Yeah, that's, that's how I started. And then I think after that,
 ; that's when I was on the committee, the planning committee. And I did the
 ; marketing and I pretty much just kept continuing to participate with the Social
 ; Justice Summit because it was very impactful for me. I think it helped build my
 ; activism, if you will. It gave me...language to talk about my experiences. It
 ; gave me like, curriculum to teach other people about how to start their journey
 ; or like continue their journey
 ; 
 ; or, you know, come back from taking a rest (laughs) if you will. It exposed me
 ; to like a lot of things that were happening on campus, that were unjust. And I,
 ; because I had those experiences I felt empowered enough to not just let them
 ; happen, but to like speak about them. I developed like lifelong mentors from
 ; that summit. I think, if I'm not mistaken, I probably went to like three or four
 ; of them. The first one being a participant and the others I was on the
 ; committee. And then the, the last one, I ended up--I was a co-facilitator,
 ; 
 ; so.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Got it. Very, very cool. And I previously interviewed Sara Sheikh, so
 ; she was able to also walk me through, a bit of that experience, but that's
 ; awesome hearing your perspective. And then regarding some of the projects that
 ; you did for the CCC, you've previously been described by your peers as someone
 ; who always got incredible results, but thought outside the box and didn't
 ; necessarily play by the rules to achieve those results. So I was just curious in
 ; your own words if you had an instance of a project or an objective you achieved
 ; where you didn't necessarily play by the rules.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: That's funny. (laughs) I've always been like a really creative person.
 ; 
 ; So--I... I like to see kind of like, what is the baseline? And I'm like, “okay,
 ; what, what more can we do from here?” So, we had an event called Cafe La Paz,
 ; and it was essentially a way to talk about, different cultural backgrounds and
 ; experiences, in an interactive way. And then I believe we served food (laughs).
 ; I think all our events we serve food, that's how you get students (laughs), make
 ; sure you get a Costco pizza and, and all the desserts and then you will have students.
 ; 
 ; But yeah, so we had to work with, or we were tasked to work with the other
 ; centers, so the Women's Center (now Gender Equity Center) and the LGBT Pride
 ; Center, LGBTQIA, Pride Center (laughs).
 ; 
 ; And so, I don't remember like the actual identities that we had to talk about,
 ; but it was like two or three of them, and we had to find a way to kind of put
 ; them together. And, I like to do things where people aren't just like listening
 ; to a lecture or watching a movie. I feel like it's, like it works if it's like
 ; twenty minutes or something that's short. Like when you get people to move and
 ; talk and engage with each other, I feel like that's
 ; 
 ; more impactful to their learning process. So I honestly don't remember the game
 ; or what it's called. Oh, yes, I do (laughs). So, it's a game, called mafia and,
 ; it basically simulates this like inner and outer group and then, like people who
 ; reinforce the system and then, people who are trying to change the system.
 ; 
 ; And so, I found a way to talk about experiences in the community or in
 ; classrooms and then incorporate this game that I played with other college
 ; students. So, I guess that's a way of being creative and thinking outside the
 ; box. I
 ; 
 ; know I definitely broke some rules as far as my attendance goes. (Be)cause my,
 ; my, punctuality then was not (laughs) not very good. So I guess that would
 ; probably be some ways that I, you know, was a little bit rebellious. But I would
 ; say for the most part it was just really my creativity that drove me to, think
 ; of things that weren't being done. So like, another example is like when we, I
 ; think this might have been--when was this? This might have been like the second
 ; or third social justice event that I was on the committee with.
 ; 
 ; And we were like, thinking of names to title it, or what have you. And
 ; 
 ; I'm very simple. Like I don't--I'm not really someone that wants like a word
 ; vomit of a title, like make it impactful, how can we say this in the fewest
 ; words possible? So I like, took--then they had the RED campaign (division of The
 ; ONE Campaign to end extreme poverty and preventable disease by 2030). I don't
 ; know if you remember that.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Um-hm
 ; 
 ; Bradley:It was a RED campaign for Apple or like, for HIV awareness, or something
 ; like that. And so in that campaign, they put brackets over the R and the E. So I
 ; found a way to like use the word power and then I put brackets around the word,
 ; the words W-E So it looks like, like we are the power that we, that we want to,
 ; like we have the power,
 ; 
 ; we the people have the power essentially. And so I remember making it, and it
 ; was like, the most simple one that I had ever done in all of the designs that I
 ; had created. And I believe that same year the registration, like was full by
 ; like the end of the day or like the next day. So that was really cool to kind of
 ; see how something so simple can intrigue people enough to want to join something
 ; that they probably wouldn't normally going to.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Absolutely. And it's super cool to hear about your art making such a
 ; tangible impact as well. Regarding the operation of the CCC again, through my
 ; research I've heard several people kind of cite the students as sort of like the
 ; lifeblood of the organization. The people who
 ; 
 ; affected change and essentially help those projects get off the ground. So I was
 ; just interested in hearing about what your relationships were like with other
 ; student staff as well as your superiors?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So my first two years, ’cause I think I was there for three years, it’s
 ; been three years, oh my gosh (laughs). My first couple of years. The person, did
 ; he, I think he, I think he was the one that referred for me to apply, or it was
 ; Sara (Sheikh). I don't exactly remember. But I have a friend who's like,
 ; essentially someone who I've been friends with since then, but his name is
 ; Gerardo Cabral or he goes by G now. But G, I met him at
 ; 
 ; that event that I said where I got the free pizza for the first time. I honestly
 ; didn't know that it was his event. He tells me later that it was, and I was
 ; like, he's like, “Yeah, I remember you coming in.” And (laughs) I don't even
 ; remember what I was saying, but I was like, extra, as the word that people would
 ; use then.
 ; 
 ; And so when I started working with him, him and I started to develop a closer
 ; relationship outside of work. He, I think at the time, like either my car wasn't
 ; working or like I had to walk to campus, and I was living off of campus, so he
 ; would pick me up like every day. ’cause I was, I wasn't too far from campus, but
 ; it was far enough where, like you didn't want to walk, because as everybody
 ; knows, Cal State San Marcos sits on a hill. So (laughs)
 ; 
 ; if you're walking from off campus, and it's already far enough, like you got
 ; (to) trek up, a mountainside to get there. And so--and this was before the
 ; (University) Student Union, because there were like ways that you can get up
 ; without using stairs that I figured out, but the easiest way is to take stairs.
 ; 
 ; But yeah, so became like really close to Gerardo and, I, I, I believe because of
 ; like the experience that I had with like the incident that I had my freshman
 ; year I really connected with Sara. She like has a very therapeutic presence. And
 ; as someone who like experienced trauma young and (laughs) very, very colorful
 ; past it was
 ; 
 ; comforting to have a supervisor that didn't really feel like a supervisor. Like
 ; she, you know, obviously was my supervisor, but it just felt different. I've
 ; never had a supervisor where I connected in that way. So when she left, it, it
 ; was a really big hole, like for the whole center because everyone loved her. I
 ; mean, they still love her, like I still love her. But like me and G especially
 ; were like basically mourning (laughs) her transition.
 ; 
 ; And I think that experience also brought us closer. I was in his wedding, like
 ; he's came to all of my graduations, I've gone to his. So we still talk to this
 ; day. And my experience with Floyd (Lai, the next director of the Cross-Cultural
 ; Center), because I was so connected with
 ; 
 ; Sara, was definitely rocky at first. I was so used to like a certain way, that
 ; things were, and then when Floyd came, he didn't necessarily disrupt everything
 ; and like change everything. We kind of kept most things, if not all. But I
 ; definitely was a little bit taken aback by having to deal with like, a, a power
 ; shift, if you will. But Floyd has always been super supportive. And at the time
 ; I was also involved in InterVarsity, InterVarsity is a Christian student group
 ; on campus.
 ; 
 ; I don't know if they're still there, but I had a mentor there who was telling
 ; me, he was like, “You have to be a leader.” Like a 360 leader. Sometimes you
 ; have to
 ; 
 ; lead the people that you are, that are supposed to lead you. Not to say that
 ; Floyd didn't lead me, it was just like, because he was a new person, he kind of
 ; came to me with like, “Okay, what information do you have? What knowledge do you
 ; have? Do you have background information about this event or that?” And so I
 ; kind of felt like I was in a way his little guide. And so that was new for me.
 ; I'd never been in a position where people are looking at me for answers. So I
 ; think it helped me develop my leadership skills as a result.
 ; 
 ; And also be able to reconcile relationships too. So, some of the other
 ; 
 ; like staff that I work with, I still touch base with every once in a while,
 ; but--like when was it? Was it the 25th anniversary? I don't remember. But there
 ; (laughs), there was a, what was it, third year? I don't remember. But I went to
 ; an event and I came back to campus after graduating and I ran into Allie Moreno,
 ; I think she has a different last name now, but Allie Moreno I also worked with.
 ; And she was there at the event, so I got to reconnect with her. Same thing with
 ; Diana (Salidvar).
 ; 
 ; I'm bad with names, so I apologize. Diana, I believe, is her name. I still like
 ; connect with her through social media, so I--it's, it's like, a
 ; 
 ; very unique time in your life when you're like, “I'm an adult,” but also like,
 ; you're still learning. You're still learning how to be an adult, you're still
 ; learning how to function in the world. You have to take care of yourself. Like,
 ; I had to, you know, get a job and I couldn't really rely on my parents to help
 ; me out of situations (laughs) if you will. So I had to learn how to be
 ; resourceful. And I think the Cross-Cultural Center gave me the resources among
 ; other, you know services that I used on campus to survive and thrive there.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah, absolutely. One comment on that, I will second Sara Sheikh's,
 ; therapeutic nature (both laugh). She's, she's definitely an incredible person.
 ; And, yeah, it
 ; 
 ; definitely sounds like when you were able to kind of inhabit that role as sort
 ; of like a guide for the others in the center, it sounds like you kind of reached
 ; a point of pride and were able to kind of reflect in your accomplishments and
 ; just some of the things that you had done. Which I also think is super cool. Now
 ; that I've kind of jogged your memory a little bit from those experiences, I want
 ; to know what your favorite memory of the Cross-Cultural Center is.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: (laughs) It's very simple. Like I--the, the one thing that my dad
 ; taught me was that you can change an atmosphere just by stepping into the room.
 ; And so I would be very big on atmosphere, or ambiance if you will. My friends
 ; and I call it am-Beyonce
 ; 
 ; (laughs), like, because Beyonce has that, that energy and aura to her too. And
 ; so what I would do when I would be working my shift is I would play music that I
 ; enjoyed, and then I would ask students like, “What do you wanna listen to?” So I
 ; would kind of like be a DJ, like a little bit (laughs). So I enjoyed just
 ; creating a welcoming space for them to come in. And I've had students--and in a
 ; way I sort of became like a therapist come to me like stressed out about
 ; something and they are looking for advice or guidance, or just like helping
 ; individuals who are coming in trying to figure out like, “Oh, what's this
 ; place?” (laughs) You know? So I think that was probably my favorite part of
 ; working at the Cult--Cross-Cultural Center, was just
 ; 
 ; creating that space for students.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Very cool. I definitely understand that impact of ambiance, so it's
 ; definitely nice that you were able to be a little selfless in a way and kind of
 ; provide that, that atmosphere like you mentioned. And shifting gears here, I
 ; know that you had a heavy involvement in the Black Student Union on campus as
 ; well. You're cited as being an individual who essentially revived that
 ; organization or had a very big hand in reviving it from inactivity. So just
 ; starting there, I want to know what that timeline looked like and how you got
 ; involved in that project as well.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So I was in BSU (Black Student Union) my freshman year, and it was
 ; pretty active
 ; 
 ; then. We had a good amount of members. They--I would say maybe a majority of
 ; them were like upperclassmen. And so, I think I also served on the board my
 ; second year and that's when the president Charey or Trey stepped down and then
 ; Raja stepped up. He had a lot of great ideas and he is a really good leader. I
 ; think it's just really hard when you're--like imagine having to be the next
 ; head, like performance after like Patti LaBelle (laughs). You're like “How do I top
 ; 
 ; that (laughs)?” So I think it was some of that that happened with Raja, but he
 ; did a really good job at getting a lot of the structural things that
 ; organizations need.
 ; 
 ; Like they need bylaws. They need to define their roles. They need recruitment
 ; efforts. They need to have like good soil to be able to grow. After Raja
 ; graduated, because he was also upper class, I think he ended up graduating
 ; before myself, maybe a couple years before me. So a lot of those upperclassmen
 ; that made up a lot of the BSU moved on. And so it was just like the
 ; underclassmen that kind of had to step up. I think there were like, if I'm not
 ; mistaken, a
 ; 
 ; couple of attempts where students tried to revive it and then it just became
 ; inactive. I don't know how long the inactive period was, but I think during that
 ; time I was doing a lot of on-campus like protests. I was doing a lot of things
 ; with the Cross-Cultural Center.
 ; 
 ; I was leading Bible studies. I was, also going to school, working, like I was
 ; doing a lot. And I think it was my Women's Studies professor, I think at the end
 ; of my like sophomore year and she was like, “What are you gonna do about BSU?”
 ; I'm like, “What do you mean (laughs)? Like, it's not my job (laughs).” And I
 ; think another Women's Studies professor was like, “You should try to
 ; 
 ; get that organization going again.” And I was like, “Okay” (laughs). I work with
 ; a lot of student organizations when I was a peer educator. So I'm like, okay, I
 ; see how they do things. I know all the background information. I know who to
 ; talk to at, Student Life and Leadership so that I can try to expedite things if
 ; I need to.
 ; 
 ; I know where to go with ASI (Associated Student Inc.) like being a student
 ; worker really exposes you to a lot of like the administrative side of a
 ; university. So I got to be able to experience that. So when I stepped into that
 ; role, I already had all those resources. And I knew a lot of students, so they
 ; knew who I was. And so when I started, I had enough
 ; 
 ; members to make the organization active, which I believe is three. You need a
 ; secretary, a vice (president) and a president. We talked extensively during the
 ; summer about like, who's going to take up what role, and what are we gonna do
 ; and how are we gonna do things? And kind of, things like that. I originally, I
 ; believe was just gonna be a vice president, another student wanted to be president.
 ; 
 ; And I'm like, I have no ties to any role. My only objective is to make this
 ; organization active again. And I think it was the week or two before classes
 ; started, both of them dropped out. And I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna
 ; do, but I'll figure this out because I'm resourceful. So,
 ; 
 ; I just started reaching out to every student that I knew. I'm like, you remember
 ; when BSU was like, and all this stuff? And just trying to--and even new
 ; students, I was like, “You look like a leader!” I was just heavy, heavy with my
 ; recruitment until I finally got two people to be in the role of vice president
 ; and treasurer. And then I was able to go to Josh at the time who was like
 ; overseeing student organizations. (laughs).
 ; 
 ; I'm like, okay, “I have all the paperwork (laughs), like can we be active now?”
 ; And then it was definitely really rocky. It was, it was really rocky, because at
 ; the time I was like, I'm just trying to get us back into a place where we
 ; 
 ; have presence on campus cause we're here, like Black students are here, they're
 ; just not collectively coming here. And so I also, at the same time, I'm
 ; honestly, I don't know how I did all these things, but at the same time (laughs)
 ; while I was in, in InterVarsity, they have like a Black student body as well
 ; within that, that organization. And so I was working with Black Student Unions
 ; at other campuses. I was like, let me see how you all do this because your group
 ; is so big. And then I'm like, okay, well instead of trying to motivate these
 ; students who are like, I don't want to go (laughs), I'm gonna work with these
 ; students who already have the--already energized about meeting together about,
 ; you know, centering Black narrative and who want
 ; 
 ; to move that forward.
 ; 
 ; So we attempted to do like events together. So, I feel like a lot of people get
 ; F.O.M.O (Fear Of Missing Out), so I'm like, if I make the event cool enough and
 ; bring enough people, they're gonna want to come. And so I did a lot of that, and
 ; I designed the logo. I fixed the bylaws and I worked a lot with other students
 ; because I was like, I think this was like my, ‘cause this was my senior year, I
 ; had to do all of this my senior year, graduate, you know, look for a job, all
 ; those things. And so I kind of searched for the next presidents. I was like,
 ; “Hey, you have the potential. Come with me to this event, I think you would
 ; benefit from it.” And
 ; 
 ; I invested time in their development, like, not to pressure you, but I am
 ; leaving (laughs) so, it would be great if someone could step into these roles.
 ; 
 ; And so I remember my last year and no one really what was stepping up and I was
 ; like, I just have to leave it and hope that it works out. So I went to my
 ; mentor, Roger, who at the time was the director of the LGBT Center and I was
 ; like, “Can you do me a favor?” (laughs) Can you, because he's an agitator, he,
 ; he will make sure like something gets done. So I was like, “Can you please make
 ; sure that someone steps up? Cause I'm, I'm graduating, like I can't do any more
 ; past this.” So yeah, that was,
 ; 
 ; that was a lot (laughs).
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah. It definitely sounds like you, kind of once again used out of
 ; the box style thinking to try and ensure the future of the organization and the
 ; health of the organization, which is definitely, definitely needed (laughs) in
 ; situations like that. Regarding the relationship between those organizations and
 ; just in general on our campus, what role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center
 ; playing as it coexists with these different organizations devoted to identity
 ; expression? Like, what kind of role do you think it inhabits and still inhabits?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So, I
 ; 
 ; don't remember the name of it, but my friend G was trying to start like a
 ; council for all like, multicultural student organizations to meet--to board
 ; leaders to meet together and be able to have a space to discuss issues or
 ; concerns or what have you together like a, quasi-United Nations (laughs), if you
 ; will. So I think that was the first time I kind of saw the way that the
 ; Cross-Cultural (Center) can collaborate, and empower, and equip student
 ; organizations to not only self-express, but also to address matters
 ; 
 ; that are important for them. Or how to just really have representation. Because
 ; I think that was really important. Like, for me, coming from a place where there
 ; wasn't that growing up, like I remember (laughs), I remember going to the Career
 ; Center on campus and there was this--stand and repeat, and it had a Black
 ; student on it.
 ; 
 ; And then I don't remember what the language was underneath it, but it basically
 ; implied as what I had interpreted of it, was that like, Black students aren't
 ; gonna get employed, something like that. And I was like,
 ; 
 ; “You have to change that.” (laughs) That's not gonna work. Like, that's not
 ; gonna bring Black students in here. You need to show them, themselves in the
 ; careers that they want, because they're out there. There are successful people
 ; of color. And so--I mean, same thing with like posters around campus. I'm like,
 ; “Who made that? There's not enough people that look diverse enough for that to
 ; be representing our campus.” So yeah I think it, it, it equips and empowers, not
 ; only like the board members on those--because like we had free printing. The
 ; Student Life and Leadership Center had a place where you could make a-frames,
 ; like you could make the
 ; 
 ; materials that you need.
 ; 
 ; Like you didn't have to do everything out of pocket. And especially for
 ; marginalized, you know minority groups. Sometimes money is not something that
 ; you have to just make materials for. I remember (laughs) the biggest thing for
 ; like, I feel like students tend to get behind is like, “Do I get a T-shirt
 ; (laughs)?” If you have swag for them, they're like, “Yeah, I'll definitely show
 ; up.” So I was like, we need to get T-shirts for Black Student Union. And because
 ; I was a student, because I worked, or you know, worked at the Cross-Cultural
 ; Center and I knew the resources they had available, I was like, “I know what
 ; website to make it on. I can order them. I can have them, have it done. I know
 ; where to go to get scholarships for our
 ; 
 ; group.” So I think, that is what's really like, special about that relationship
 ; with, you know, centers who work with student organizations.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah, totally. That's super cool. I heard on swag, that is definitely
 ; a great way to get, to get people in through the door and get your message
 ; heard, funnily enough. My next set of questions and the, the questions that
 ; we'll kind of wrap up on are a little bit more abstract. So I just wanted to ask
 ; you how your experiences with Cross-Cultural Center, as well as Black Student
 ; Union on that note, impacted your professional path and what you currently do?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So I'm, I'm sort
 ; 
 ; of in a career transition space, so I wouldn't necessarily say that those
 ; experiences impacted my profession. I would say they impacted me personally and
 ; my politics. I think it opened my eyes to a lot of different things,
 ; organizations, what people are doing in the community and it motivated me to
 ; serve the community in a different way. Right after college, I ended up going on
 ; a missions trip in Fresno, and seeing poverty in a different way. And I also
 ; worked with Inner City Youth in Escondido as well as here in
 ; 
 ; Central San Diego. So I think it definitely shaped my passion for development.
 ; And I guess in some ways I still sort of do that in my role now. But my job I
 ; would say is, more like financially driven decisions versus passions and what
 ; sort of shaped me there.
 ; 
 ; But after--I believe it, after (George) Floyd was murdered? I think it was
 ; during the pandemic like, 2020, when that whole bit happened. I mean I was going
 ; to protests before
 ; 
 ; then. Like I went to the Women's March, I went to some other protests as well. I
 ; even brought some of my students (laughs). I was like, “This is what a protest
 ; is.” And so when that happened in the pandemic, it just, it's hard because it's
 ; like wrapped around tragedy, you know, these things that are so unjust that it,
 ; (laughs) I was telling my therapist that I have like an--eloquent rage. Like I
 ; want (laughs) to do things in a certain way that will affect change in the
 ; system that's already existing. Sometimes I do want to be very radical, but also
 ; I just don't want like Black people to keep dying, you know?
 ; 
 ; And so I actually ended up kind of getting my boyfriend at the time into that
 ; too. I think he had always been like into it, but the way that he would protest
 ; is virtually. And I'm like, come see what it's like grassroots. Because It's a
 ; different feeling. And so we went in our cars, and we went up to like La Jolla
 ; and came back to central San Diego and then went all the way down to National
 ; City as a protest. And there was like hundreds of cars, it was all over the
 ; news. We had made posters. It was like a huge thing. And I feel like, that
 ; moment kind of reminded me of when I was at the Social Justice Summits and
 ; watching someone's
 ; 
 ; lightbulb turn on almost like, oh wow, like this is what it, what it's like, l
 ; being in solidarity with other, with others and wanting the change that we need.
 ; 
 ; We don't want individuals to be brutalized and murdered by individuals that we
 ; thought we could trust to keep us safe, you know? And so I get, I get chills
 ; thinking about it. I remember there was one student, he was like, “How can you
 ; just get up there and like, speak on the mic and not be afraid?” And I'm like,
 ; “I am afraid!” I'm very afraid, but I also don't want this to happen anymore.
 ; It's not okay. And so I would rather
 ; 
 ; be afraid and find the courage to get through it, than be afraid and do nothing.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Absolutely. And I'm sorry, it's just super profound (laughs) super
 ; profound things that you're talking about. And also just so much value in being
 ; able to relate those experiences back together. And also, again, tangibly seeing
 ; results from, your own efforts make--be them personal or professional. So very,
 ; very cool. Just a few more questions left. What direction do you think the
 ; Cross-Cultural Center should grow in?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: I visit like maybe every, two or three years (both laughs). So I don't
 ; know what the last three years have been because I, the la--I think the last
 ; time I went to campus was like maybe (20)17 or (20)18. So it's been a while
 ; since I've been there. And it's a different, it's a different vibe than how it
 ; was when I was there. We were like a smaller center, you know, we didn't have
 ; this beautiful (University) Student Union. We had the Commons, and if anyone
 ; knows what the Commons are, there were these small little rooms, (laughs) that
 ; we just made work, you know? And they would be filled with students. And so I
 ; remember seeing the blueprints of this
 ; 
 ; Student Union. And for me, I'm just like, “This is awesome!” I feel like I was,
 ; you know, part of the building blocks of this, and I'm just honestly proud of
 ; how things have evolved.
 ; 
 ; I will say (laughs) the, this is maybe not necessarily like the Cross-Cultural
 ; Center, but I've heard that the parking permits there are ridiculous. Like, for
 ; passes, like I go, I, I got my master's at University of San Diego, their annual
 ; passes are under a hundred dollars. And so to have a parking pass that's $600 or
 ; something like that, I was like, that's wild. If I was there, I'd be protesting
 ; about it. This is ridiculous. Like, what are you, let me see your (laughs), let
 ; me see your expenditure sheets, let me see your multi-year budget plans, because
 ; this doesn't make
 ; 
 ; sense, like it should not be that expensive. I really don't know what the
 ; student activism looks like. You know, I know that when I was there that a lot
 ; of people kind of saw the Cross-Cultural Center as like a Pan-Asian space,
 ; because that's kind of a lot of the students that would come to that space.
 ; 
 ; And so when I was there, I was like, I want to see everybody (laughs). I want to
 ; go and like find where you guys are and let you know, this is here, like MEChA
 ; (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan) come over, you know, Black students
 ; come over. I'd be like, “Okay, what movie do you want to see? (laughs) I'm about
 ; to put it on the TV. You know, like make you feel comfortable. So yeah, I think
 ; that's kind of something that was needed then. I don't know what it's like now.
 ; I know when I kind of like popped in it's--there was mostly Asian students there,
 ; 
 ; but you know, I think as long as students are using the space, I think that's
 ; what matters most. That's what it's there for. I think it's great that you know,
 ; peer educators can, I don't know if they're doing this now, but when I was
 ; there, I would go into classrooms and I would teach curriculum to students about
 ; identity and allyship.
 ; 
 ; So I hope that they're still doing stuff like that because there are situations
 ; where I--where it impacts the world, it impacts, you know, that, that macrocosm.
 ; And in turn we, you know, sometimes professors don't know what to say and some
 ; of those students might be having a hard time being present, learning about, I
 ; don't know,
 ; 
 ; whatever subject, like microorganisms, (laughs), you know what I mean? And so
 ; how can you as a professor tie in like what's going on in the world to address
 ; it, but also like be there for the students in a way that, you know, maybe is
 ; not necessarily like a savior complex, but in a way that's supportive. Like “I
 ; see you, I see that, you know, this could be something that, you may or may not
 ; be noticing in life or affected by, but there's this place where you can go,” or
 ; like bringing in those students to those classrooms. And nothing against the
 ; hard sciences. We love math, we love science. But you know, sometimes those
 ; spaces are very black and white and the Cross-Cultural Center lives in a gray
 ; space. And so to be able to show students that and help them with identity
 ; development, because like I said,
 ; 
 ; college is such a unique time. You’re a quasi-adult, but not really. And you
 ; have to take on all these responsibilities in addition to graduating. So.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah. Absolutely. My next question, and again this is going to kind of
 ; reference the current landscape of CSUSM. So don't worry if you can't think of
 ; like a super accurate answer or anything. You can also comment about the time,
 ; like around the time that you graduated and moved on. But what communities do
 ; you feel are underrepresented on campus?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Hmm...
 ; 
 ; I don't really know. I know like when I was a student... so, I know I, I
 ; definitely got involved with like undocumented students ’cause that experience
 ; was something that I personally didn't have like experience in. But I had a
 ; friend, several friends, who were undocumented. And I remember going to Social
 ; Justice Summit and having that lightbulb. And we were talking about undocumented
 ; students and I was like, “Oh my God.” Like I drove one of my friends who I know
 ; is undocumented and I didn't have
 ; 
 ; like (laughs), this is again, me living rebelliously. I was driving, and my
 ; license plate was expired or something like that? And I was like, “Oh my gosh.”
 ; If I had gotten pulled over and this police officer wasn't chill, I could have
 ; endangered my friend. And so, I think it grew my like empathy for that community.
 ; 
 ; I remember their group was like, sort of active, sort of not, at the time when I
 ; was a student. I think MEChA--
 ; 
 ; DeMaria: Um-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Is such a big organization like nationally that sometimes the
 ; undocumented experience kind of becomes adjacent to that. So one of the friends
 ; that I
 ; 
 ; was referring to, I believe she served in a leadership role for, I don't
 ; remember what the name of that undocumented student organization was, but I
 ; remember her talking about that and kind of trying to differentiate that group
 ; as a result. I also have another friend that I still talk to today. She created
 ; an organization called Et Cetera. And her whole goal was to be a catchall for
 ; the others. Like you're not really feeling like a certain cultural identity.
 ; Like maybe you don't want to be in the math group, like maybe you don't want to
 ; be in a fraternity, like come to Et Cetera (laughs). And so I thought that that
 ; was really cool that she wanted to create a space for individuals who either
 ; like myself live in like a duality, or others who just
 ; 
 ; maybe don't identify in a particular space.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Totally. I have two questions left to just wrap things up. So first
 ; one, what is the most important lesson you've taken from your experience with
 ; the Cross-Cultural Center?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: There were so many lessons (both laughs). Definitely difficult to pick
 ; one. I think I, I, I learned my power. And at that time I learned a, that I had
 ; power and leadership potential, but also that how to use it, in a way
 ; 
 ; that would affect change. Like I remember when--I hope that this tabloid paper
 ; doesn't exist on that campus anymore. Because If it does, I'm driving (laughs)
 ; to make sure it's not there. But--they, it was called The Koala. The Koala also
 ; existed on I think UCSD (University of California San Diego), but basically it
 ; was a tabloid paper, and they would just write, just excuse my language, but
 ; like, bullshit about people, about groups, about minority groups. And they're
 ; like, “Oh, but it's satire.” And I'm like, “This still doesn't make it okay.” I
 ; was such an agitator to them that they put me in one of their editions.
 ; 
 ; And so I remember noticing that this was not
 ; 
 ; okay, you know, me stepping into my power and then I protested by myself. I was
 ; like, I'm gonna stand next to you. I'm not gonna say anything, but I'm gonna
 ; hold this sign up, and I'm gonna stand next to you, so that other people
 ; understand that this is not okay and that you shouldn't be passing this out on
 ; campus. And like my friends were like coming up to me and they're like, “Oh my
 ; gosh, like you are so awesome for doing this." And I connected with other
 ; campuses and I'm like, “What are you guys doing about this (laughs) paper?”
 ; Because you know, such and such. And then I remember other people kind of in
 ; solidarity doing other things to expose the students and who are doing these
 ; salacious things, like who the editor was (laughs). They wrote it on the steps,
 ; like the steps that are next to the clock.
 ; 
 ; They wrote the names of all the members in the organization.
 ; 
 ; This person is in it and this person is in it and they want to hide, but
 ; (laughs), they're not gonna hide. We're gonna bring them to light. They actually
 ; bit their--put their own shoe in their mouth. But I think the editor attempted
 ; to run for ASI president.
 ; 
 ; De Maria:
 ; 
 ; Right?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: And if he had accomplished his goal, that paper would've been basically
 ; passed out, like how the Cougar News (student newspaper) gets passed out. But he
 ; ended up (laughs) fraud, like basically doing identity theft and faking votes so
 ; that he could win. So I was like, “Well, not only did you lose, but you also are gonna
 ; 
 ; have to be prosecuted for like 500 counts of identity theft.” And that's a
 ; federal offense (laughs). So I think it was a mixture of, you know, stepping
 ; into my power, but also knowing that I have, like I have a cap, I have a
 ; battery, at some point my battery is gonna go down and I need to recharge.
 ; 
 ; So I think that was another lesson that I learned, was like how to recharge, how
 ; to self-preserve. Because I know there were times that I was doing a lot of
 ; things. And even just thinking about it, I was like, “That sounds like a lot
 ; like (laughs). When did you have you time?” I remember there was a point where I
 ; had stopped making such a fuss about that paper,
 ; 
 ; and there was a student who was doing a class project where they were
 ; interviewing people about that paper. And I was like, I wrote in the comments, I
 ; was like, “Don't stop agitating, keep going.” So even in my time of
 ; preservation, I was still encouraging others to develop their power and what
 ; they found to be important for them.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah. So comments on that. That's a really crazy intense story. And
 ; also just on a personal level, I'm glad that you were there to be the initial
 ; agitator essentially. And you know, just, affect that change, like how you said.
 ; So that's definitely a demonstration of power (laughs) used responsibly and for
 ; a good end.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Which
 ; 
 ; is very, very cool. For my final question, I want to relate back to something
 ; you said at the very beginning of the interview. You described feeling like an
 ; other in your community growing up in Orange County. So, I just would like to
 ; know, as someone who has also felt like an other growing up in a community, if
 ; someone feels that way, what tips or advice would you give them to start
 ; agitating or get involved in social justice?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: I mean--I feel like my experiences as an other sort of like, I describe
 ; it like a butterfly, because I am like--ambiguous
 ; 
 ; (laughs) physically and mentally. I just kind of butterfly my way through groups
 ; and I learn from all those experiences. So being an other doesn't necessarily
 ; have to define you into the other box. It can give you capacity to be in every
 ; box. I remember my sister for those demographic questions where they're like,
 ; “What race are you?” And she was like, “I just check all of them!” (laughs) So
 ; in a way you just check all of them. You can go into this group, you can go into
 ; that group and people would welcome me, like regardless. So that was like really
 ; nice, to experience. But also I think--
 ; 
 ; I don't know if every school campus has like a Social Justice
 ; 
 ; Summit type of thing, but I honestly think that something like that definitely
 ; informs the way that you develop in your social justice identity or your social
 ; justice, activism. But honestly, you could, just join a march, like when they
 ; had the Women's March or I think there was another march for all of the like
 ; school shootings that were happening that were student led. Just being a part of
 ; grassroots organizations can shape that activist part in individuals as well as
 ; shaping identity, you know. But I think what I noticed in school (laughs) is
 ; when you learn about other cultures, especially in American history, it's
 ; 
 ; terrible. They don't really put you into this really wonderful light. It's like
 ; genocide, slavery, and then President Obama (laughs).
 ; 
 ; And you're like, okay--but where's all the in between? And so, you know, even
 ; just having literature, I would hope you know that the Kellogg Library has a lot
 ; of options, but I had friends who gave me literature that helped me to develop
 ; that part of myself and to see--people who looked like me that were successful,
 ; but also people who were affecting change. Who were women, who were, you know,
 ; minority groups, who were young. I think for me,
 ; 
 ; growing up in a single parent household, you want to, or at least for me, I
 ; wanted to see a strong woman and like my grandma, she's definitely a part of my
 ; strong personality, but also it's like different when it's not your mom. And so
 ; for me, I was like looking for that maternal figure and so I found it a lot in
 ; supervisors, or professors, and I was like, that's the kind of woman that I want
 ; to be, who doesn't just sit and let things happen but will be willing to stand
 ; up for what I believe in.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: I think that's excellent advice. And again, just, a manifestation of
 ; taking pride in your identity rather than allowing that box or
 ; 
 ; that label to define you or your actions, even if those actions are advantageous
 ; to social justice. So I completely get that.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah
 ; 
 ; De Maria: And with that, I know that we're at time. So I just wanted to thank
 ; you for taking the time out for this interview, Chanel. We definitely covered a
 ; lot, in terms of your personal experience, and I also learned a lot more about
 ; the CCC as I continue to interview more people for this project and kind of
 ; embark on this journey myself. So overall, just wanted to thank you for opening
 ; up and allowing others to be part of that experience and kind of understand what
 ; you went through and what you did.
 ; 
 ; Bradley:
 ; 
 ; Yeah, definitely. Well, if you want any contacts for other people--who to
 ; interview or if you have enough, that's cool too. (Both laugh) If you want some
 ; of the OGs, (De Maria laughs) I still talk to them.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Absolutely. We'll talk offline, but (both laugh)
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Thank you so much Chanel
 ; 
 ; Bradley: You’re welcome,
 ; 
 ; okay.
 ; 
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Bradley, Chanel. Interview April 14th, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Chanel Bradley is a California State University San Marcos alumna. She graduated with her degree in Women's and Gender Studies in 2012. Chanel worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2012 and was involved in various social identity-related causes on campus. In this interview, Chanel discusses her experience as a peer educator at the Cross-Cultural Center and her recollections of the center during her time at CSUSM. Bradley was also involved in the Women's Center [now Gender Equity Center]. In her interview, Bradley also recalls how she revived the campus Black Student Union, protested the unauthorized student newspaper, The Koala, and came into her power.
Identifier
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SC027-35
Subject
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
Education, Higher
Human rights
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations -- California -- San Marcos
Minorities in higher education
Date
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2023-04-14
Format
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video
Creator
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Bradley, Chanel
Contributor
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De Maria, Michael
Coverage
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San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University University Library
Language
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English
Rights Holder
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Chanel Bradley
Activists and activism
Black experience
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/f49e1fc474b566146db157adf2b4fa32.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
2023-04-14
Michael De Maria:
My name is Michael De Maria. I’m a graduate research assistant with Kellogg Library, I'm here today
with Chanel Bradley discussing her involvement in the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM (California State
University San Marcos), as well as the Black Student Union. So to kick things off, Chanel, I just wanted to
ask about your background. I want you to talk about the community that you grew up in and kind of
describe what that was like.
Chanel Bradley:
I grew up in Orange County. I was raised by a single parent, so I moved a lot. And like for example, in
high school, I went to two different high schools (laughs). If you don't know about Orange County, it's
like predominantly a white county. And we lived in a predominantly white area, so I was normally like
one of few that looked like myself. And so I kind of quickly learned what it was like to be, other, and
found myself kind of like congregating with other others, (laughs). And that sort of became my
community. Typically, I would spend my time with like Latino and like Black students and like even at my
church, like, I went to Saddleback until I was about sixteen. I was in the choir, and my grandmother was
the choir director. And Saddleback is like a megachurch in Orange County. So she was kind of like a local
celebrity (laughs). So like people would know, like, about our family or about her. And so there was a lot
of, of colorful acquaintances. But I would say the people that I felt kind of most comfortable with how to
share like cultural experience.
De Maria:
I see. And going forward from there, what led you to attend CSU San Marcos and get involved with the
CCC (Cross-Cultural Center)?
Bradley:
So I was originally gonna go to a school in Florida. And my dad, he didn't want me to leave the state
(laughs), so it was more of a forced choice. And so, I applied to other colleges and universities in the
state. And I think we ended up picking Cal State (San Marcos) because, of the distance, I think at the
time he was living in, Rancho Santa Margarita. And so, it was very easy to kind of like go home on like
weekends or something like that. But I actually ended up living in the dorms and so I didn't go home too
often, but I started going to the Cross-Cultural Center (laughs), as most college students is motivation is
free things (laughs). So the Cross-Cultural Center had free food. And so, my friends and I were always
like trying to find the next thing that had free food. So I went to an event, I don't even remember what
the event was called. And they had so many like student services, like I could print for free. You know,
they had books that I could borrow for classes if I needed to. And, I think for me being multi-ethnic, like I
don't really fit into a particular box. And so it was nice to go to a place where like, oh, I can like get like,
you know, experiences from all walks of life. So, I think that's kind of what--why I kept coming back.
And then I served on the committee. What did I do? (whispers) It's, it's, it's like what, almost 20 years
(laughs) ago, so I have to kind of like think about it. But, I remember either like going to the CrossCultural Center director (laughs). I, I was a very adventurous college student, so I got into some trouble. I
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ended up (laughs) being convicted of a misdemeanor and my last semester of my freshman year, I
couldn't finish my exams because I was waiting for trial. So, I think what had happened was I ended up
volunteering so that I could gain work experience after that incident that I had. And so, I believe Sara
Sheikh had suggested that I assist her with the Social Justice Summit. And so I created some of the
marketing material for it. And then, I believe, maybe a year or so after that, I ended up participating on
the committee again. And I believe that same year, might have been the same year or maybe, you know,
few years after I applied to be a peer educator for the center. So that was kind of like the beginnings of
involvement (laughs) with the Cross-Cultural Center.
De Maria:
Got it. So, it sounds like the CCC just provided a positive space for you to inhabit and kind of rebuild
some elements of your life after that incident. Which I think is super, super cool. Regarding the projects
that you worked on, I'd love to hear more about the Social Justice Summit, since you were involved in
the very first one (Bradley laughs). So, if you could just take me through your experience with that, and
just, you know, what, what it was like, what was discussed, and just giving me an image of what all
occurred.
Bradley:
So, I think I remember what happened. I ended up, attending the first Social Justice Summit, as a
participant. And I, (laughs) yeah, that's what happened. I remember. Okay. (laughs) I feel like as I'm
talking, I'm remembering the timeline. So (laughs), pardon me if I'm like having to go back into the, the
files of my brain.
De Maria:
No, that's, that's good (both Laugh).
Bradley:
Yeah, so I, I was a participant. I attended the retreat with my boyfriend at the time. And--I would say I've
always been like a fairly consciously aware person like, you know, growing up in a predominantly white
area, and like knowing that I was not white, was something that I knew. But I think as you--or at least as
I grew up, you kind of learn how to adapt in those environments. And so, things that are probably like
triggering or, you know, maybe the, not the most like PC thing to say, I would kind of say to fit in or
whatever I was doing at the time. So when I went to the Social Justice Summit, it was really eye-opening
’cause they were talking about, like, individual identity. They were talking about oppression and
marginalization, which again, like I knew, but I didn't know that it existed, in like different intersects.
And--they also talked about like allyship. So I met a lot of people there that I still talk to today. Yeah,
that's, that's how I started. And then I think after that, that's when I was on the committee, the planning
committee. And I did the marketing and I pretty much just kept continuing to participate with the Social
Justice Summit because it was very impactful for me. I think it helped build my activism, if you will. It
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gave me...language to talk about my experiences. It gave me like, curriculum to teach other people
about how to start their journey or like continue their journey or, you know, come back from taking a
rest (laughs) if you will. It exposed me to like a lot of things that were happening on campus, that were
unjust. And I, because I had those experiences I felt empowered enough to not just let them happen,
but to like speak about them. I developed like lifelong mentors from that summit. I think, if I'm not
mistaken, I probably went to like three or four of them. The first one being a participant and the others I
was on the committee. And then the, the last one, I ended up--I was a co-facilitator, so.
De Maria:
Got it. Very, very cool. And I previously interviewed Sara Sheikh, so she was able to also walk me
through, a bit of that experience, but that's awesome hearing your perspective. And then regarding
some of the projects that you did for the CCC, you've previously been described by your peers as
someone who always got incredible results, but thought outside the box and didn't necessarily play by
the rules to achieve those results. So I was just curious in your own words if you had an instance of a
project or an objective you achieved where you didn't necessarily play by the rules.
Bradley:
That's funny. (laughs) I've always been like a really creative person. So--I... I like to see kind of like, what
is the baseline? And I'm like, “okay, what, what more can we do from here?” So, we had an event called
Cafe La Paz, and it was essentially a way to talk about, different cultural backgrounds and experiences, in
an interactive way. And then I believe we served food (laughs). I think all our events we serve food,
that's how you get students (laughs), make sure you get a Costco pizza and, and all the desserts and
then you will have students. But yeah, so we had to work with, or we were tasked to work with the
other centers, so the Women's Center (now Gender Equity Center) and the LGBT Pride Center, LGBTQIA,
Pride Center (laughs).
And so, I don't remember like the actual identities that we had to talk about, but it was like two or three
of them, and we had to find a way to kind of put them together. And, I like to do things where people
aren't just like listening to a lecture or watching a movie. I feel like it's, like it works if it's like twenty
minutes or something that's short. Like when you get people to move and talk and engage with each
other, I feel like that's more impactful to their learning process. So I honestly don't remember the game
or what it's called. Oh, yes, I do (laughs). So, it's a game, called mafia and, it basically simulates this like
inner and outer group and then, like people who reinforce the system and then, people who are trying
to change the system.
And so, I found a way to talk about experiences in the community or in classrooms and then incorporate
this game that I played with other college students. So, I guess that's a way of being creative and
thinking outside the box. I know I definitely broke some rules as far as my attendance goes. (Be)cause
my, my, punctuality then was not (laughs) not very good. So I guess that would probably be some ways
that I, you know, was a little bit rebellious. But I would say for the most part it was just really my
creativity that drove me to, think of things that weren't being done. So like, another example is like
when we, I think this might have been--when was this? This might have been like the second or third
social justice event that I was on the committee with.
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And we were like, thinking of names to title it, or what have you. And I'm very simple. Like I don't--I'm
not really someone that wants like a word vomit of a title, like make it impactful, how can we say this in
the fewest words possible? So I like, took--then they had the RED campaign (division of The ONE
Campaign to end extreme poverty and preventable disease by 2030). I don't know if you remember that.
De Maria:
Um-hm
Bradley:
It was a RED campaign for Apple or like, for HIV awareness, or something like that. And so in that
campaign, they put brackets over the R and the E. So I found a way to like use the word power and then
I put brackets around the word, the words W-E So it looks like, like we are the power that we, that we
want to, like we have the power, we the people have the power essentially. And so I remember making
it, and it was like, the most simple one that I had ever done in all of the designs that I had created. And I
believe that same year the registration, like was full by like the end of the day or like the next day. So
that was really cool to kind of see how something so simple can intrigue people enough to want to join
something that they probably wouldn't normally going to.
De Maria:
Absolutely. And it's super cool to hear about your art making such a tangible impact as well. Regarding
the operation of the CCC again, through my research I've heard several people kind of cite the students
as sort of like the lifeblood of the organization. The people who affected change and essentially help
those projects get off the ground. So I was just interested in hearing about what your relationships were
like with other student staff as well as your superiors?
Bradley:
So my first two years, ’cause I think I was there for three years, it’s been three years, oh my gosh
(laughs). My first couple of years. The person, did he, I think he, I think he was the one that referred for
me to apply, or it was Sara (Sheikh). I don't exactly remember. But I have a friend who's like, essentially
someone who I've been friends with since then, but his name is Gerardo Cabral or he goes by G now.
But G, I met him at that event that I said where I got the free pizza for the first time. I honestly didn't
know that it was his event. He tells me later that it was, and I was like, he's like, “Yeah, I remember you
coming in.” And (laughs) I don't even remember what I was saying, but I was like, extra, as the word that
people would use then.
And so when I started working with him, him and I started to develop a closer relationship outside of
work. He, I think at the time, like either my car wasn't working or like I had to walk to campus, and I was
living off of campus, so he would pick me up like every day. ’cause I was, I wasn't too far from campus,
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but it was far enough where, like you didn't want to walk, because as everybody knows, Cal State San
Marcos sits on a hill. So (laughs) if you're walking from off campus, and it's already far enough, like you
got (to) trek up, a mountainside to get there. And so--and this was before the (University) Student
Union, because there were like ways that you can get up without using stairs that I figured out, but the
easiest way is to take stairs.
But yeah, so became like really close to Gerardo and, I, I, I believe because of like the experience that I
had with like the incident that I had my freshman year I really connected with Sara. She like has a very
therapeutic presence. And as someone who like experienced trauma young and (laughs) very, very
colorful past it was comforting to have a supervisor that didn't really feel like a supervisor. Like she, you
know, obviously was my supervisor, but it just felt different. I've never had a supervisor where I
connected in that way. So when she left, it, it was a really big hole, like for the whole center because
everyone loved her. I mean, they still love her, like I still love her. But like me and G especially were like
basically mourning (laughs) her transition.
And I think that experience also brought us closer. I was in his wedding, like he's came to all of my
graduations, I've gone to his. So we still talk to this day. And my experience with Floyd (Lai, the next
director of the Cross-Cultural Center), because I was so connected with Sara, was definitely rocky at first.
I was so used to like a certain way, that things were, and then when Floyd came, he didn't necessarily
disrupt everything and like change everything. We kind of kept most things, if not all. But I definitely was
a little bit taken aback by having to deal with like, a, a power shift, if you will. But Floyd has always been
super supportive. And at the time I was also involved in InterVarsity, InterVarsity is a Christian student
group on campus.
I don't know if they're still there, but I had a mentor there who was telling me, he was like, “You have to
be a leader.” Like a 360 leader. Sometimes you have to lead the people that you are, that are supposed
to lead you. Not to say that Floyd didn't lead me, it was just like, because he was a new person, he kind
of came to me with like, “Okay, what information do you have? What knowledge do you have? Do you
have background information about this event or that?” And so I kind of felt like I was in a way his little
guide. And so that was new for me. I'd never been in a position where people are looking at me for
answers. So I think it helped me develop my leadership skills as a result.
And also be able to reconcile relationships too. So, some of the other like staff that I work with, I still
touch base with every once in a while, but--like when was it? Was it the 25th anniversary? I don't
remember. But there (laughs), there was a, what was it, third year? I don't remember. But I went to an
event and I came back to campus after graduating and I ran into Allie Moreno, I think she has a different
last name now, but Allie Moreno I also worked with. And she was there at the event, so I got to
reconnect with her. Same thing with Diana (Salidvar).
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I'm bad with names, so I apologize. Diana, I believe, is her name. I still like connect with her through
social media, so I--it's, it's like, a very unique time in your life when you're like, “I'm an adult,” but also
like, you're still learning. You're still learning how to be an adult, you're still learning how to function in
the world. You have to take care of yourself. Like, I had to, you know, get a job and I couldn't really rely
on my parents to help me out of situations (laughs) if you will. So I had to learn how to be resourceful.
And I think the Cross-Cultural Center gave me the resources among other, you know services that I used
on campus to survive and thrive there.
De Maria:
Yeah, absolutely. One comment on that, I will second Sara Sheikh's, therapeutic nature (both laugh).
She's, she's definitely an incredible person. And, yeah, it definitely sounds like when you were able to
kind of inhabit that role as sort of like a guide for the others in the center, it sounds like you kind of
reached a point of pride and were able to kind of reflect in your accomplishments and just some of the
things that you had done. Which I also think is super cool. Now that I've kind of jogged your memory a
little bit from those experiences, I want to know what your favorite memory of the Cross-Cultural Center
is.
Bradley:
(laughs) It's very simple. Like I--the, the one thing that my dad taught me was that you can change an
atmosphere just by stepping into the room. And so I would be very big on atmosphere, or ambiance if
you will. My friends and I call it am-Beyonce (laughs), like, because Beyonce has that, that energy and
aura to her too. And so what I would do when I would be working my shift is I would play music that I
enjoyed, and then I would ask students like, “What do you wanna listen to?” So I would kind of like be a
DJ, like a little bit (laughs). So I enjoyed just creating a welcoming space for them to come in. And I've
had students--and in a way I sort of became like a therapist come to me like stressed out about
something and they are looking for advice or guidance, or just like helping individuals who are coming in
trying to figure out like, “Oh, what's this place?” (laughs) You know? So I think that was probably my
favorite part of working at the Cult--Cross-Cultural Center, was just creating that space for students.
De Maria:
Very cool. I definitely understand that impact of ambiance, so it's definitely nice that you were able to
be a little selfless in a way and kind of provide that, that atmosphere like you mentioned. And shifting
gears here, I know that you had a heavy involvement in the Black Student Union on campus as well.
You're cited as being an individual who essentially revived that organization or had a very big hand in
reviving it from inactivity. So just starting there, I want to know what that timeline looked like and how
you got involved in that project as well.
Bradley:
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So I was in BSU (Black Student Union) my freshman year, and it was pretty active then. We had a good
amount of members. They--I would say maybe a majority of them were like upperclassmen. And so, I
think I also served on the board my second year and that's when the president Charey or Trey stepped
down and then Raja stepped up. He had a lot of great ideas and he is a really good leader. I think it's just
really hard when you're--like imagine having to be the next head, like performance after like Patti
LaBelle (laughs). You're like “How do I top that (laughs)?” So I think it was some of that that happened
with Raja, but he did a really good job at getting a lot of the structural things that organizations need.
Like they need bylaws. They need to define their roles. They need recruitment efforts. They need to
have like good soil to be able to grow. After Raja graduated, because he was also upper class, I think he
ended up graduating before myself, maybe a couple years before me. So a lot of those upperclassmen
that made up a lot of the BSU moved on. And so it was just like the underclassmen that kind of had to
step up. I think there were like, if I'm not mistaken, a couple of attempts where students tried to revive
it and then it just became inactive. I don't know how long the inactive period was, but I think during that
time I was doing a lot of on-campus like protests. I was doing a lot of things with the Cross-Cultural
Center.
I was leading Bible studies. I was, also going to school, working, like I was doing a lot. And I think it was
my Women's Studies professor, I think at the end of my like sophomore year and she was like, “What
are you gonna do about BSU?” I'm like, “What do you mean (laughs)? Like, it's not my job (laughs).” And
I think another Women's Studies professor was like, “You should try to get that organization going
again.” And I was like, “Okay” (laughs). I work with a lot of student organizations when I was a peer
educator. So I'm like, okay, I see how they do things. I know all the background information. I know who
to talk to at, Student Life and Leadership so that I can try to expedite things if I need to.
I know where to go with ASI (Associated Student Inc.) like being a student worker really exposes you to a
lot of like the administrative side of a university. So I got to be able to experience that. So when I
stepped into that role, I already had all those resources. And I knew a lot of students, so they knew who
I was. And so when I started, I had enough members to make the organization active, which I believe is
three. You need a secretary, a vice (president) and a president. We talked extensively during the
summer about like, who's going to take up what role, and what are we gonna do and how are we gonna
do things? And kind of, things like that. I originally, I believe was just gonna be a vice president, another
student wanted to be president.
And I'm like, I have no ties to any role. My only objective is to make this organization active again. And I
think it was the week or two before classes started, both of them dropped out. And I was like, I don't
know what I'm gonna do, but I'll figure this out because I'm resourceful. So, I just started reaching out to
every student that I knew. I'm like, you remember when BSU was like, and all this stuff? And just trying
to--and even new students, I was like, “You look like a leader!” I was just heavy, heavy with my
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recruitment until I finally got two people to be in the role of vice president and treasurer. And then I was
able to go to Josh at the time who was like overseeing student organizations. (laughs).
I'm like, okay, “I have all the paperwork (laughs), like can we be active now?” And then it was definitely
really rocky. It was, it was really rocky, because at the time I was like, I'm just trying to get us back into a
place where we have presence on campus cause we're here, like Black students are here, they're just
not collectively coming here. And so I also, at the same time, I'm honestly, I don't know how I did all
these things, but at the same time (laughs) while I was in, in InterVarsity, they have like a Black student
body as well within that, that organization. And so I was working with Black Student Unions at other
campuses. I was like, let me see how you all do this because your group is so big. And then I'm like, okay,
well instead of trying to motivate these students who are like, I don't want to go (laughs), I'm gonna
work with these students who already have the--already energized about meeting together about, you
know, centering Black narrative and who want to move that forward.
So we attempted to do like events together. So, I feel like a lot of people get F.O.M.O (Fear Of Missing
Out), so I'm like, if I make the event cool enough and bring enough people, they're gonna want to come.
And so I did a lot of that, and I designed the logo. I fixed the bylaws and I worked a lot with other
students because I was like, I think this was like my, ‘cause this was my senior year, I had to do all of this
my senior year, graduate, you know, look for a job, all those things. And so I kind of searched for the
next presidents. I was like, “Hey, you have the potential. Come with me to this event, I think you would
benefit from it.” And I invested time in their development, like, not to pressure you, but I am leaving
(laughs) so, it would be great if someone could step into these roles.
And so I remember my last year and no one really what was stepping up and I was like, I just have to
leave it and hope that it works out. So I went to my mentor, Roger, who at the time was the director of
the LGBT Center and I was like, “Can you do me a favor?” (laughs) Can you, because he's an agitator, he,
he will make sure like something gets done. So I was like, “Can you please make sure that someone
steps up? Cause I'm, I'm graduating, like I can't do any more past this.” So yeah, that was, that was a lot
(laughs).
De Maria:
Yeah. It definitely sounds like you, kind of once again used out of the box style thinking to try and ensure
the future of the organization and the health of the organization, which is definitely, definitely needed
(laughs) in situations like that. Regarding the relationship between those organizations and just in
general on our campus, what role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with these
different organizations devoted to identity expression? Like, what kind of role do you think it inhabits
and still inhabits?
Bradley:
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So, I don't remember the name of it, but my friend G was trying to start like a council for all like,
multicultural student organizations to meet--to board leaders to meet together and be able to have a
space to discuss issues or concerns or what have you together like a, quasi-United Nations (laughs), if
you will. So I think that was the first time I kind of saw the way that the Cross-Cultural (Center) can
collaborate, and empower, and equip student organizations to not only self-express, but also to address
matters that are important for them. Or how to just really have representation. Because I think that was
really important. Like, for me, coming from a place where there wasn't that growing up, like I remember
(laughs), I remember going to the Career Center on campus and there was this--stand and repeat, and it
had a Black student on it.
And then I don't remember what the language was underneath it, but it basically implied as what I had
interpreted of it, was that like, Black students aren't gonna get employed, something like that. And I was
like, “You have to change that.” (laughs) That's not gonna work. Like, that's not gonna bring Black
students in here. You need to show them, themselves in the careers that they want, because they're out
there. There are successful people of color. And so--I mean, same thing with like posters around
campus. I'm like, “Who made that? There's not enough people that look diverse enough for that to be
representing our campus.” So yeah I think it, it, it equips and empowers, not only like the board
members on those--because like we had free printing. The Student Life and Leadership Center had a
place where you could make a-frames, like you could make the materials that you need.
Like you didn't have to do everything out of pocket. And especially for marginalized, you know minority
groups. Sometimes money is not something that you have to just make materials for. I remember
(laughs) the biggest thing for like, I feel like students tend to get behind is like, “Do I get a T-shirt
(laughs)?” If you have swag for them, they're like, “Yeah, I'll definitely show up.” So I was like, we need
to get T-shirts for Black Student Union. And because I was a student, because I worked, or you know,
worked at the Cross-Cultural Center and I knew the resources they had available, I was like, “I know
what website to make it on. I can order them. I can have them, have it done. I know where to go to get
scholarships for our group.” So I think, that is what's really like, special about that relationship with, you
know, centers who work with student organizations.
De Maria:
Yeah, totally. That's super cool. I heard on swag, that is definitely a great way to get, to get people in
through the door and get your message heard, funnily enough. My next set of questions and the, the
questions that we'll kind of wrap up on are a little bit more abstract. So I just wanted to ask you how
your experiences with Cross-Cultural Center, as well as Black Student Union on that note, impacted your
professional path and what you currently do?
Bradley:
So I'm, I'm sort of in a career transition space, so I wouldn't necessarily say that those experiences
impacted my profession. I would say they impacted me personally and my politics. I think it opened my
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eyes to a lot of different things, organizations, what people are doing in the community and it motivated
me to serve the community in a different way. Right after college, I ended up going on a missions trip in
Fresno, and seeing poverty in a different way. And I also worked with Inner City Youth in Escondido as
well as here in Central San Diego. So I think it definitely shaped my passion for development. And I guess
in some ways I still sort of do that in my role now. But my job I would say is, more like financially driven
decisions versus passions and what sort of shaped me there.
But after--I believe it, after (George) Floyd was murdered? I think it was during the pandemic like, 2020,
when that whole bit happened. I mean I was going to protests before then. Like I went to the Women's
March, I went to some other protests as well. I even brought some of my students (laughs). I was like,
“This is what a protest is.” And so when that happened in the pandemic, it just, it's hard because it's like
wrapped around tragedy, you know, these things that are so unjust that it, (laughs) I was telling my
therapist that I have like an--eloquent rage. Like I want (laughs) to do things in a certain way that will
affect change in the system that's already existing. Sometimes I do want to be very radical, but also I just
don't want like Black people to keep dying, you know?
And so I actually ended up kind of getting my boyfriend at the time into that too. I think he had always
been like into it, but the way that he would protest is virtually. And I'm like, come see what it's like
grassroots. Because It's a different feeling. And so we went in our cars, and we went up to like La Jolla
and came back to central San Diego and then went all the way down to National City as a protest. And
there was like hundreds of cars, it was all over the news. We had made posters. It was like a huge thing.
And I feel like, that moment kind of reminded me of when I was at the Social Justice Summits and
watching someone's lightbulb turn on almost like, oh wow, like this is what it, what it's like, l being in
solidarity with other, with others and wanting the change that we need.
We don't want individuals to be brutalized and murdered by individuals that we thought we could trust
to keep us safe, you know? And so I get, I get chills thinking about it. I remember there was one student,
he was like, “How can you just get up there and like, speak on the mic and not be afraid?” And I'm like,
“I am afraid!” I'm very afraid, but I also don't want this to happen anymore. It's not okay. And so I would
rather be afraid and find the courage to get through it, than be afraid and do nothing.
De Maria:
Absolutely. And I'm sorry, it's just super profound (laughs) super profound things that you're talking
about. And also just so much value in being able to relate those experiences back together. And also,
again, tangibly seeing results from, your own efforts make--be them personal or professional. So very,
very cool. Just a few more questions left. What direction do you think the Cross-Cultural Center should
grow in?
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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Bradley:
I visit like maybe every, two or three years (both laughs). So I don't know what the last three years have
been because I, the la--I think the last time I went to campus was like maybe (20)17 or (20)18. So it's
been a while since I've been there. And it's a different, it's a different vibe than how it was when I was
there. We were like a smaller center, you know, we didn't have this beautiful (University) Student Union.
We had the Commons, and if anyone knows what the Commons are, there were these small little
rooms, (laughs) that we just made work, you know? And they would be filled with students. And so I
remember seeing the blueprints of this Student Union. And for me, I'm just like, “This is awesome!” I
feel like I was, you know, part of the building blocks of this, and I'm just honestly proud of how things
have evolved.
I will say (laughs) the, this is maybe not necessarily like the Cross-Cultural Center, but I've heard that the
parking permits there are ridiculous. Like, for passes, like I go, I, I got my master's at University of San
Diego, their annual passes are under a hundred dollars. And so to have a parking pass that's $600 or
something like that, I was like, that's wild. If I was there, I'd be protesting about it. This is ridiculous. Like,
what are you, let me see your (laughs), let me see your expenditure sheets, let me see your multi-year
budget plans, because this doesn't make sense, like it should not be that expensive. I really don't know
what the student activism looks like. You know, I know that when I was there that a lot of people kind of
saw the Cross-Cultural Center as like a Pan-Asian space, because that's kind of a lot of the students that
would come to that space.
And so when I was there, I was like, I want to see everybody (laughs). I want to go and like find where
you guys are and let you know, this is here, like MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan)
come over, you know, Black students come over. I'd be like, “Okay, what movie do you want to see?
(laughs) I'm about to put it on the TV. You know, like make you feel comfortable. So yeah, I think that's
kind of something that was needed then. I don't know what it's like now. I know when I kind of like
popped in it's--there was mostly Asian students there, but you know, I think as long as students are
using the space, I think that's what matters most. That's what it's there for. I think it's great that you
know, peer educators can, I don't know if they're doing this now, but when I was there, I would go into
classrooms and I would teach curriculum to students about identity and allyship.
So I hope that they're still doing stuff like that because there are situations where I--where it impacts
the world, it impacts, you know, that, that macrocosm. And in turn we, you know, sometimes professors
don't know what to say and some of those students might be having a hard time being present, learning
about, I don't know, whatever subject, like microorganisms, (laughs), you know what I mean? And so
how can you as a professor tie in like what's going on in the world to address it, but also like be there for
the students in a way that, you know, maybe is not necessarily like a savior complex, but in a way that's
supportive. Like “I see you, I see that, you know, this could be something that, you may or may not be
noticing in life or affected by, but there's this place where you can go,” or like bringing in those students
to those classrooms. And nothing against the hard sciences. We love math, we love science. But you
know, sometimes those spaces are very black and white and the Cross-Cultural Center lives in a gray
space. And so to be able to show students that and help them with identity development, because like I
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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said, college is such a unique time. You’re a quasi-adult, but not really. And you have to take on all these
responsibilities in addition to graduating. So.
De Maria:
Yeah. Absolutely. My next question, and again this is going to kind of reference the current landscape of
CSUSM. So don't worry if you can't think of like a super accurate answer or anything. You can also
comment about the time, like around the time that you graduated and moved on. But what
communities do you feel are underrepresented on campus?
Bradley:
Hmm... I don't really know. I know like when I was a student... so, I know I, I definitely got involved with
like undocumented students ’cause that experience was something that I personally didn't have like
experience in. But I had a friend, several friends, who were undocumented. And I remember going to
Social Justice Summit and having that lightbulb. And we were talking about undocumented students and
I was like, “Oh my God.” Like I drove one of my friends who I know is undocumented and I didn't have
like (laughs), this is again, me living rebelliously. I was driving, and my license plate was expired or
something like that? And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” If I had gotten pulled over and this police officer
wasn't chill, I could have endangered my friend. And so, I think it grew my like empathy for that
community.
I remember their group was like, sort of active, sort of not, at the time when I was a student. I think
MEChA-DeMaria:
Um-hmm.
Bradley:
Is such a big organization like nationally that sometimes the undocumented experience kind of becomes
adjacent to that. So one of the friends that I was referring to, I believe she served in a leadership role
for, I don't remember what the name of that undocumented student organization was, but I remember
her talking about that and kind of trying to differentiate that group as a result. I also have another friend
that I still talk to today. She created an organization called Et Cetera. And her whole goal was to be a
catchall for the others. Like you're not really feeling like a certain cultural identity. Like maybe you don't
want to be in the math group, like maybe you don't want to be in a fraternity, like come to Et Cetera
(laughs). And so I thought that that was really cool that she wanted to create a space for individuals who
either like myself live in like a duality, or others who just maybe don't identify in a particular space.
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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De Maria:
Totally. I have two questions left to just wrap things up. So first one, what is the most important lesson
you've taken from your experience with the Cross-Cultural Center?
Bradley:
There were so many lessons (both laughs). Definitely difficult to pick one. I think I, I, I learned my power.
And at that time I learned a, that I had power and leadership potential, but also that how to use it, in a
way that would affect change. Like I remember when--I hope that this tabloid paper doesn't exist on
that campus anymore. Because If it does, I'm driving (laughs) to make sure it's not there. But--they, it
was called The Koala. The Koala also existed on I think UCSD (University of California San Diego), but
basically it was a tabloid paper, and they would just write, just excuse my language, but like, bullshit
about people, about groups, about minority groups. And they're like, “Oh, but it's satire.” And I'm like,
“This still doesn't make it okay.” I was such an agitator to them that they put me in one of their editions.
And so I remember noticing that this was not okay, you know, me stepping into my power and then I
protested by myself. I was like, I'm gonna stand next to you. I'm not gonna say anything, but I'm gonna
hold this sign up, and I'm gonna stand next to you, so that other people understand that this is not okay
and that you shouldn't be passing this out on campus. And like my friends were like coming up to me
and they're like, “Oh my gosh, like you are so awesome for doing this." And I connected with other
campuses and I'm like, “What are you guys doing about this (laughs) paper?” Because you know, such
and such. And then I remember other people kind of in solidarity doing other things to expose the
students and who are doing these salacious things, like who the editor was (laughs). They wrote it on
the steps, like the steps that are next to the clock.
They wrote the names of all the members in the organization. This person is in it and this person is in it
and they want to hide, but (laughs), they're not gonna hide. We're gonna bring them to light. They
actually bit their--put their own shoe in their mouth. But I think the editor attempted to run for ASI
president.
De Maria:
Right?
Bradley:
And if he had accomplished his goal, that paper would've been basically passed out, like how the Cougar
News (student newspaper) gets passed out. But he ended up (laughs) fraud, like basically doing identity
theft and faking votes so that he could win. So I was like, “Well, not only did you lose, but you also are
gonna have to be prosecuted for like 500 counts of identity theft.” And that's a federal offense (laughs).
So I think it was a mixture of, you know, stepping into my power, but also knowing that I have, like I
have a cap, I have a battery, at some point my battery is gonna go down and I need to recharge.
Transcribed by
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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So I think that was another lesson that I learned, was like how to recharge, how to self-preserve.
Because I know there were times that I was doing a lot of things. And even just thinking about it, I was
like, “That sounds like a lot like (laughs). When did you have you time?” I remember there was a point
where I had stopped making such a fuss about that paper, and there was a student who was doing a
class project where they were interviewing people about that paper. And I was like, I wrote in the
comments, I was like, “Don't stop agitating, keep going.” So even in my time of preservation, I was still
encouraging others to develop their power and what they found to be important for them.
De Maria:
Yeah. So comments on that. That's a really crazy intense story. And also just on a personal level, I'm glad
that you were there to be the initial agitator essentially. And you know, just, affect that change, like how
you said. So that's definitely a demonstration of power (laughs) used responsibly and for a good end.
Bradley:
Yeah.
De Maria:
Which is very, very cool. For my final question, I want to relate back to something you said at the very
beginning of the interview. You described feeling like an other in your community growing up in Orange
County. So, I just would like to know, as someone who has also felt like an other growing up in a
community, if someone feels that way, what tips or advice would you give them to start agitating or get
involved in social justice?
Bradley:
I mean--I feel like my experiences as an other sort of like, I describe it like a butterfly, because I am like-ambiguous (laughs) physically and mentally. I just kind of butterfly my way through groups and I learn
from all those experiences. So being an other doesn't necessarily have to define you into the other box.
It can give you capacity to be in every box. I remember my sister for those demographic questions
where they're like, “What race are you?” And she was like, “I just check all of them!” (laughs) So in a way
you just check all of them. You can go into this group, you can go into that group and people would
welcome me, like regardless. So that was like really nice, to experience. But also I think--
I don't know if every school campus has like a Social Justice Summit type of thing, but I honestly think
that something like that definitely informs the way that you develop in your social justice identity or
your social justice, activism. But honestly, you could, just join a march, like when they had the Women's
March or I think there was another march for all of the like school shootings that were happening that
were student led. Just being a part of grassroots organizations can shape that activist part in individuals
Transcribed by
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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as well as shaping identity, you know. But I think what I noticed in school (laughs) is when you learn
about other cultures, especially in American history, it's terrible. They don't really put you into this really
wonderful light. It's like genocide, slavery, and then President Obama (laughs).
And you're like, okay--but where's all the in between? And so, you know, even just having literature, I
would hope you know that the Kellogg Library has a lot of options, but I had friends who gave me
literature that helped me to develop that part of myself and to see--people who looked like me that
were successful, but also people who were affecting change. Who were women, who were, you know,
minority groups, who were young. I think for me, growing up in a single parent household, you want to,
or at least for me, I wanted to see a strong woman and like my grandma, she's definitely a part of my
strong personality, but also it's like different when it's not your mom. And so for me, I was like looking
for that maternal figure and so I found it a lot in supervisors, or professors, and I was like, that's the kind
of woman that I want to be, who doesn't just sit and let things happen but will be willing to stand up for
what I believe in.
De Maria:
I think that's excellent advice. And again, just, a manifestation of taking pride in your identity rather than
allowing that box or that label to define you or your actions, even if those actions are advantageous to
social justice. So I completely get that.
Bradley:
Yeah
De Maria:
And with that, I know that we're at time. So I just wanted to thank you for taking the time out for this
interview, Chanel. We definitely covered a lot, in terms of your personal experience, and I also learned a
lot more about the CCC as I continue to interview more people for this project and kind of embark on
this journey myself. So overall, just wanted to thank you for opening up and allowing others to be part
of that experience and kind of understand what you went through and what you did.
Bradley:
Yeah, definitely. Well, if you want any contacts for other people--who to interview or if you have
enough, that's cool too. (Both laugh) If you want some of the OGs, (De Maria laughs) I still talk to them.
De Maria:
Absolutely. We'll talk offline, but (both laugh)
Transcribed by
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�CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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Bradley:
Yeah.
De Maria:
Thank you so much Chanel
Bradley:
You’re welcome, okay.
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
16
2023-10-06
�
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Transcripts
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Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
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Bradley, Chanel. Interview transcript. April 14, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Chanel Bradley is a California State University San Marcos alumna. She graduated with her degree in Women's and Gender Studies in 2012. Chanel worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2012 and was involved in various social identity related causes on campus. In this interview, Chanel discusses her experience as a peer educator at the Cross-Cultural Center and her recollections of the center during her time at CSUSM. Bradley was also involved in the Women's Center [now Gender Equity Center]. In her interview, Bradley also recalls how she revived the campus Black Student Union, protested the unauthorized student newspaper, The Koala, and came into her power.
Creator
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Chanel Bradley
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Michael De Maria
Geneva Martinot
Date
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2023-04-12
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations -- California -- San Marcos
Education, Higher
Human rights
Minorities in higher education
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University University Library
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English
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Chanel Bradley
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text
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BradleyChanel_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-14_transcript
Activists and activism
Black experience
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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Oral History
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Interviewer
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Sean Visintainer
Interviewee
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Glen Brodowsky
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6.0 Brodowsky, Glen. Interview June 14th, 2024. SC027-090 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm CSUSM ; marketing department ; intercultural marketing ; Alexander Gonzalez, Karen Haynes, Ellen Neufeldt ; Craven Hall/Administrative Building ; Jewish Faculty and Staff Association ; cross-cultural marketing ; Faculty Senate Glen Brodowsky Sean Visintainer Sound BrodowskyGlen_VisintainerSean_2024-06-14.m4a 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/2a4f9d867903cbe2aba28d8139361fc2.m4a Other audio English 0 Intorduction Oral history interview of Dr. Glen Brodowsky, June 14th, 2024, by Sean Visintainer, Head of Special Collections, University Library, California State University San Marcos. 0 33 Background and Education Dr. Brodowsky discusses how his educational background including his fluency in Mandarin and how he found himself working in higher education. Chinese studies ; Higher education ; Marketing ; CSUSM ; University of Buffalo 0 203 First Impressions of Cal State San Marcos Brodowsky talks about his first impressions of CSUSM during his interview process. The campus was built on an old poultry farm and Hollandia dairy was nearby so the campus felt very rural. Prohoroff Poultry farm ; CSUSM ; Campus architecture 0 637 Designing Cal State San Marcos' Expansion Brodowsky discusses his work on the design committee for expanding CSUSM. CSUSM ; Markstein Hall ; Construction ; design ; architecture 0 1269 How CSUSM Differed from other Colleges Brodowsky talks about how Cal State San Marcos' culture and attitude towards faculty participation differed from some other, older and well established colleges. Faculty participation ; Committees ; education ; Marketing 0 1769 Changing Policies at CSUSM Brodowsky discusses his efforts at changing policies at Cal State San Marcos and the effects that those changes had on the school. Policy ; education ; CSUSM ; standards 0 2110 Living on Campus Brodowsky talks about his time living in the dorms at CSUSM while he was a full professor. Dorm life ; education ; student life ; CSUSM 0 2328 Jewish Associations on Campus Brodowsky talks about his involvement with the Jewish Faculty and Staff Association as well as other Jewish association on campus. Chabad ; Hillel ; Jewish Faculty Association ; Religion ; Outreach 0 2679 Navigating New University Administrations Brodowsky explains his thoughts on working with different University Presidents over the course of his career at CSUSM and how he navigated professional relationships with administrations, faculty, and staff. University Presidents ; Alex Gonzalex ; Karen Haynes ; Ellen Neufeldt 0 3424 Teaching Internationally Brodowsky discusses his time teaching internationally in Copenhagen, Ecuador, Shanghai, and Taiwan. Fulbright ; international teaching ; Ecuador ; Copenhagen ; Shanghai ; Taiwan 0 3919 Cross-cultural Marketing and Research Interests Brodowsky talks about his research interests in international marketing as well as his thought on how to make products successful in different cultures. Taiwan ; China ; United States ; Marketing ; Internationality 0 4912 Teaching is Performing Brodowsky discusses his career as a teacher and how he felt that teaching was his chance to express himself as a performer to get students interested in Marketing. education ; Marketing ; acting 0 Oral history Interview discusses Brodowsky’s career at CSUSM, starting with his journey into academia and his experience during the early years of the university, the campus, his work in development of policy and initiatives, as well as marketing, including the campus logo. Interview also discusses Brodowsky’s work in service at the university, his relationship with past university presidents, intercultural and cross-cultural marketing, his approach to teaching both at CSUSM and abroad at Brodowsky’s visiting professorships, the Jewish Faculty and Staff Association and the campus Jewish community, and his past year as Faculty Senate Chair. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:04.794 --> 00:00:17.635 This is Sean Visintainer with California State University San Marcos. Today is June 14th, 2024, and I'm interviewing Dr. Glen Brodowsky, professor of Marketing. Dr. Brodowsky, thank you for joining us today. 00:00:17.635 --> 00:00:19.394 It's a pleasure to be here. 00:00:19.394 --> 00:00:33.914 Well, thank you. And, I wanted to start off just talking about the university, kind of the early days when you came to the university and so I wanted to ask you about your journey into higher education, and just how you decided to become a professor. 00:00:33.914 --> 00:02:45.235 Well, I, my original plan was to--I was a,-- majored in Chinese studies and I spoke Mandarin early into my twenties, and I thought I'd have a phenomenal career in international business and then retire into higher education. Well, it didn't work out quite that way. It came out to be the reverse where I had--couldn't find a, a business career. I stayed on and did my PhD at University of Buffalo, and it was a bad market year, and there were no jobs. I didn't get a job. And then I got this phone call in the spring, well, after the market was over from then, the dean of a place called Cal State San Marcos. And I said, are you still on the record? Well, maybe, yeah, maybe. would you be able to come out for an interview next week? Let me check my calendar. Yeah, I think I could come. So I came out here on April 15th, tax day of 1996, desperate for a job but didn't wanna let on. And by the end of the day, I had the job. And so here I was coming and they were apologizing, saying, the salary is not very high. And, I said, listen, you'll pay me to come here and teach, where do I sign? and I was very, very grateful to have that opportunity, 'cause it wasn't guaranteed at that time. And, things happened during my first year. The death of my partner happened the first year. Lots of crazy stuff. Moving across country, finishing a PhD program, defending, taking care of a cancer patient, burying him all within one year. That was my first year here, but the people who were around me, in the college of business, were very, very supportive and were with me throughout that whole process. And you don't forget things like that. I mean, I don't know if I would've been treated that well anywhere else in the world. So, I was very grateful to be here, have been grateful to be here for many years, and I'm grateful that I've had 28 wonderful years here at the Cal State San Marcos. 00:02:45.235 --> 00:02:50.104 Yeah. So, you said that you were kind of headhunted, they found you and contacted you. 00:02:50.104 --> 00:03:20.794 Well, they found me, I guess my advisor sent out a bunch of letters and, and they called me and said, oh, sure. I saying, where's that? I've never heard of it. I mean, it was, who knew? But then I said, near San Diego. And I thought, well, that doesn't sound half bad, you know? 'cause 'cause I was in Buffalo at the time, and it was winter. So, it sounded very attractive. And then, so that was it. And that, the rest is, -- 28 years later here I sit on a very, very different campus than I started out on. 00:03:20.794 --> 00:03:27.715 Yeah. And I wanted to ask you about the campus, but I guess I wanted to ask you first, like, what were your first impressions when you visited for that interview? 00:03:27.715 --> 00:04:20.995 Well, they brought me in the back way of what was then Craven Hall, and now the Administrator Building. They brought me through this blue hallway, through this labyrinth. I didn't know where they were taking me into the bowels of this building. I thought, there were lots of staircases, very few buildings, or three buildings, like 10 staircases. And I thought, what is, this does not look like a college campus. What am I, what am I getting myself into? didn't seem like much, but they had this diorama and say, in 2025, this is what we're gonna look like. And we don't look quite exactly like that. But we've grown certainly to that level. So, but it seemed kind of a bit of a pipe dream at the time because it was so new and lots of dirt and lots of staircases and, and on a windy day, you can tell that we were built on a chicken ranch. 00:04:20.995 --> 00:04:23.274 Yeah. Yeah. How could you tell? 00:04:23.274 --> 00:04:26.444 Well, the wind would, carry a certain . 00:04:26.444 --> 00:04:28.285 So, so the ranch was still in existence? 00:04:28.285 --> 00:04:48.634 Very fresh, very fresh in our minds. Yeah. There was a Hollandia dairy, which was across the freeway. So, this was the country. There was nothing here. There's very, very-- that whole shopping center was--none of the apartments were there, nothing. It was just really very open. 00:04:48.634 --> 00:04:52.605 Yeah. Was how, how big was San Marcos at the time? 00:04:52.605 --> 00:05:19.105 I think it was about 40,000 people at the time. It was very small. I chose to live in San Marcos for the first, I think, until 2003. So seven years. I lived on San Marcos Boulevard. I had an apartment at the Benchmark Apartments, and then I bought my first condor across the street, which is, the ones right next to the Home Depot, which didn't exist when I got here. So, the Home Depot, that is. 00:05:19.105 --> 00:05:21.435 And I'm sure traffic wasn't as bad on San Marcos (inaudible). 00:05:21.435 --> 00:05:41.504 Well, San Marcos was, the only thing that was bad was that, that bridge getting onto the campus was only two lanes. and so it could take a good 20 minutes to get onto and off campus, even though we were small. And then it took several years to build that bridge. So it was always tricky getting onto and off of our campus. 00:05:41.504 --> 00:05:45.365 And where did you start teaching? Like what, what building were you in? 00:05:45.365 --> 00:06:02.845 Well, my office was on the second floor of what was then Craven Hall for 10 years in a windowless office across from the men's room and my first class was in, what is, I guess it's ACD on the second floor. 00:06:02.845 --> 00:06:08.884 Was the, was the College of Business, was it all located? 00:06:08.884 --> 00:06:13.475 We were all located on the second floor of Craven Hall. 00:06:13.475 --> 00:06:19.754 Okay. Interesting. Interesting. So how have you seen the campus change over the years? 00:06:19.754 --> 00:07:28.875 Well, I mean, the first thing that came up was University Hall. Which we apparently had the option on, and we passed on. And, so that came up. And then I remember saying to President Gonzalez, to whom I was a consultant on a few projects, when we built the track and field of the Mangrum track--Mrs. Mangrum, her family did that for us-- He said, we have a track. We look like a real campus now. And I said to him, Alex, build me a library, and then we can talk. Because at that time, the library was also located in Craven Hall. And that was on the third and fourth floors. And it was this black area. It was--this walls were black and there were pipes, and it was weird. We were all in that same building. It's kind of where the Cougar Central used to be the library. And then, I ran into Alex Gonzalez a number of years later at what was the new Ralph's across the way. And we were looking out across the campus, and here was Kellogg Library. And I said, Alex, you made good on the promise. you've done good. You built me a library. Now we're a real campus. 00:07:28.875 --> 00:07:29.274 Yeah. 00:07:29.274 --> 00:07:31.644 I didn't, oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. 00:07:31.644 --> 00:08:25.035 And, and really, the whole campus, really center of the campus moved here upon the opening this plaza out here, because we used to be centered at the dome. The dome was the major gathering place in the early years. This was all just, nothing. It was an empty lot. So, you saw this huge migration of the campus towards this, what is now the center of the campus, which is kind of this Kellogg terrace. And, and then later on came, the Student Union and the, the new building for SBSB and the new Science (Hall) too. that all came much later on, but the ca--and now with the housing going down the hill, it's like what used to be the center of campus is like this little outpost up there, which is the dome. Which is where the Bookstore is. But no, you don't see much going on there. 00:08:25.035 --> 00:08:29.584 Yeah. So what was, you said it was kind of the center of campus and activity. What was happening there? 00:08:29.584 --> 00:08:49.553 Well we would have lunch there. We had, we had meetings there, we had events there. the (Academic) Senate used to meet in that building. So that was kind of the building that was, the facility, and now it's kind of, it's just kind of, kind of an appendage. It, it really has lost its centrality to the campus. 00:08:49.553 --> 00:08:57.085 Yeah. Yeah. You also mentioned the University Hall. You mentioned it was passed on, and I was just curious what you meant by that. 00:08:57.085 --> 00:09:20.544 The dean at the time, who was my very, very good friend, who was a mentor of mine, who lives in Chicago as well, she's 85, and she's amazing, was the dean at the time. And she didn't really like what she saw in the plans for the building, how it was set up. So she decided that we would wait for something to come, the next building phase. So we stayed in Craven Hall until 2006. 00:09:20.544 --> 00:09:21.040 Wow. 00:09:21.040 --> 00:10:37.764 So, and we're very pleased with Markstein Hall. I think it's a great facility and, world class in terms of classrooms. I was on the, on the committee that designed the building. So I remember taking the architects around to U Hall (University Hall) and other places saying, see, this classroom, don't do this. don't set it up like this. This does not work. This is too wide and too shallow, or, and then I remember, we had all these vendors sending us chairs, and I was having a butt, testing, lab in the buildings, because I short people and tall people and fat people and thin people trying out all these different chairs to go into the different rooms in Markstein. So, there's things that I could look at that are designed into that building and--said, that was my idea to that. And it was nice. Like, we have these benches that are throughout the second and third floors, along the hallways where the students could actually sit outside the classroom while they're waiting, because when we were in the Administrative Building, there's no place for students to sit. So they'd sit on the floor, it's like, we could put a bench there. It would be kind of a nice thing. Welcoming. 00:10:37.764 --> 00:10:41.595 Yeah. How, how long was that process of, uh. 00:10:41.595 --> 00:10:42.315 The planning. 00:10:42.315 --> 00:10:46.174 The planning, and especially like the involvement of the committee with the architecture? 00:10:46.174 --> 00:11:51.205 I think we started planning probably around 2002, 2003. It was a multi-year plan, and then we planned, the office space and how we'd maximize the number of windows. And if you go into that building, you'll notice that, on--it's actually two buildings. It's a class from one, which is three stories and the office one, which is four. And the hallways are quite wide on one side, but on the office area, it's like you feel like you're inside of a train, there's narrow, narrow passageways. And that was done so that we could maximize square footage for offices and classrooms. The state allocates a certain number of square feet, no matter what you--how you use them. And so, people will sit at the halls, feel very narrow and closed in. And warren like, but that's because we've maximized the number of window offices. So, we just had to create it because you, there, there are mandates on how much space a faculty office can have and how much, classroom space has to be available relative to office space. 00:11:51.205 --> 00:12:03.065 Okay. That's really interesting. And I think it probably explains why a lot of academic buildings look the way that they do. Huh. Very interesting. Thank you. Who was involved on that, committee. 00:12:03.065 --> 00:12:50.965 At the time? This man named Russ Decker and Diane Malone. They were from, Building Planning and Design, BPD, and then the Dean, and Regina Eisenbach was on the committee, and Ben Cherry was on the committee, and a couple of other people. But that's off the top of my head--it was a real fun committee to be on. And one of the arguments is that I really want to-- I, I'm looking at these windows in your door. And I really wanted that in the building because I thought it would be nice for you to look out. And I see that most people cover those, and they don't like them. They feel it's a violation of privacy. But I just thought--I liked that idea. That was one I was shot down on. I'm still, annoyed about that because I really wanted one of those. 00:12:50.965 --> 00:13:00.924 Well, so you ran into, you ran into headwinds there. What were--you mentioned that the seat testing was one of the things that you were involved in. What were some of the other things that you had an impact on the design? 00:13:00.924 --> 00:14:41.485 You know, one of the things I hate in academic buildings, or if you go to other campuses, is students stick things on walls and it ruins the paint, and it just, it looks tacky. So, there, if you go through, Craven Hall you'll see on the doors and along the walls, there are these metal strips that you could stick some-- they just-- and, that's, that was one of those things I requested, so that you could always put signs up and take them down without any tape. And, and you can remove things easily. And also you could--so that they're all tension bars. And that's one of the things that I have, that I requested because I just don't like scotch tape on paint. It's just hard to maintain. One of the things about this campus, and I've been on many campuses in my life, it's remarkably well maintained. It doesn't look tacky. It's not, it, it's aging quite well. it's immaculate. when I bring--I oftentimes walk around--I used to always work on Saturdays and Sundays until about eight, nine years ago. I said, I've been here long enough, I could take off the weekend. But I oftentimes find myself walking around campus on Saturday or Sunday. And I'd see people around my age with a teenager and, oh, these must be parents. And I give 'em a little tour, and they always remark how clean things are and how neat things, very, very tidy place. and it, it feels very safe, and, not, not--It doesn't feel like it's been overrun by lots of students. And the parents like that. I don't know if the students like that, but I just thought as an older person's, like, you have to have respect for the property. Keep it nice. 00:14:41.485 --> 00:14:48.125 Yeah. What, so what do you think has been the reasons why it's been maintained so well, or aged well? 00:14:48.125 --> 00:15:43.754 I think maintenance is great on the campus. I think the staff keep beautifully. The gardening is incredible. The bougainvillea are there because of a man named Bernie Hinton, who is a founding faculty. And, I didn't always agree with him on things, but, when you drive up campus drive, you see those beautiful bougainvillea, it's makes a real, I mean--the buildings are large, beige, institutional buildings. There's not much you could do with them. They're not--it's just not, Louis Sullivan type of you, or, an Ivy League school campus. But the grounds are very well maintained. And, it just--it doesn't look--it looks new. It still looks new, and some would say a little bit sterile, but I like that. That's fine. It's always, in good shape. 00:15:43.754 --> 00:15:46.254 And the grounds do a lot, I think, to soften the buildings. 00:15:46.254 --> 00:16:16.000 I mean, the setting is gorgeous. I mean, you can't--it's just kind of nestled into this hill. The logo is reflective of that. I actually introduced the logo. I helped design the logo. You know, of course we've cut down some of the hills behind the campus with our mining and quarry operation. But it's just really set nicely into the hillside. And then you look at it, this magnificent vista and, the library, this eleven sided building has great views. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:17.000 Yes. 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:18.884 Just really lovely. 00:16:18.884 --> 00:16:23.325 Yeah. could we talk about the process of designing the logo? 00:16:23.325 --> 00:18:05.000 Yeah. We had the original logo, which is kind of the keystone that you'll see right across on Science Hall One that was the original logo with a globe in it. Because that's where the-- the founder circle is there. And it's really nice. But it's kind of, it'd be great--better in Pennsylvania with a keystone type of thing. And so we wanted something a little bit softer, a little bit more evocative of the landscape. And so I was on a committee with a men named Rick Moore, who was the Director of Marketing back then. We came up with a style manual and we came up with this, logo, which looks like, the two hills, with the, with the campus nestled on it. And then people--a lot of people didn't like it 'cause if you turned it on its side, it resembled Demi Moore on the cover of Vanity Fair, when she was pregnant, and they noticed that. But I remember, I was given the honor of unveiling this to the entire campus, and I said, and here it is. And I went like this (gestures). And, then I said--and I showed you on the--on the front of my personal action file. I said, you could use it on your own file for personal promotion. And you could use it like this and that. And it was--people still remember that day when I was--I introduced the logo. And, if you still listen to the answering--then you get the, recording--"The first of a new generation of California State Universities,"--that was me as well. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:06.000 Nice. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:15.000 So I was on this marketing committee--little things like that,--I mean, I--I'll remember, doing that. And it's like, yeah, I did that. 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.000 Yeah. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:30.265 But it--and so that logo has lasted. I mean, I think it's, we probably unveiled it around 1998. Maybe it's in need of an update, but that's the one that we have. 00:18:30.265 --> 00:18:44.194 Okay. So, I'm--I wanna circle back a little bit to you saying like that there's kind of this intersection with like the University Marketing and marketing, and then you as a Marketing professor. So were you tapped oftentimes to. 00:18:44.194 --> 00:19:06.674 Oftentimes, yes. Often there were other Marketing professors, but I was high profile and willing to do it. So I always came in--I always had something, to offer that way. And I came in for the local design. I came in for, the, I think the 10th year reunion branding that, a lot of the branding that we did on the campus I was involved in. 00:19:06.674 --> 00:19:18.894 Okay. And does that come back to--does that come back to kind of the campus being small? I hear from a lot of people. Oh, I wore many hats, so, I had to-- 00:19:18.894 --> 00:20:36.625 We did. and the thing is, I got--I talked to Alex Gonzalez once, this is how I became a consultant. I said, in this system, they're always hiring these special consultants with hundreds of thousands of dollars to do--I said, you got go down the elevator two floors. You got 10 people with PhDs in marketing. Why don't you ask us? You give me five grand, I'll do the whole thing for you. You know what I mean? And I mean, I thought, why do you have all this, all these PhDs sitting around and you're hiring these external people? This is a great way to get people to feel more ownership of the campus, because we're actually involved in building it. Well, in the early days on this campus, we had no choice. We had very few resources and, we all knew each other. We were all pretty much based in, if not Craven Hall, we had offices across the hall in, Science One. That was where the library, which was in Craven Hall. So, you couldn't help but bump into all of your colleagues. Now, there are people, I find out they've been here for, you've been here for years, I've never met you. That wouldn't have happened back then. I I saw in the archives, the original, campus directory and had like 15 phone numbers on it. 00:20:36.625 --> 00:20:37.954 Yeah. 00:20:37.954 --> 00:20:46.585 That's how small it was. I mean, that was when we were over at Cal State Jeromes (nickname for Cal State San Marcos' initial location). I didn't come then, I came in (19)96. So we already had Craven Hall. 00:20:46.585 --> 00:21:08.545 Yeah. Okay. This kind of dovetails to a line of questioning I wanted to get into. And--I--so I read a--oh, I'm sorry. I don't have any water in there for you--but, yeah. so I read a University of Buffalo Alumni profile, 00:21:08.545 --> 00:21:09.000 About where? 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:20.005 About you. And you mentioned, that you found a much different academic experience here at CSUSM than you did at University of Buffalo or the University of Chicago. And I was just wondering if you could expand upon what the difference is were there. 00:21:20.005 --> 00:22:50.733 When we become a faculty member, as a new assistant professor, anywhere. At a campus that's been around for a hundred, two hundred years--and it's pretty well all baked in. Most of the leadership on campus, most of the committee work, most of the--most of the decision making is done by crusty old faculty who've been there for a hundred years. And you're told, go into your office, publish six articles, get tenure, and keep your mouth shut, and teach your classes. And that's it. That was not viable at a place like this. I mean, there's all hands on deck. I mean, there was two marketing professors. So we had to develop all the curriculum. So it was all--I was on a committee with, David Borsky and Jackie Fishman and Michael McDuffie. We were doing all the academic policies on the campus and approving all the curriculum. I was the assistant professors. They were also, in the first couple of years we were all, young people. That kind of work is not done by junior people on campuses. This is done by the senior people. Finally, after like, I don't know, about 15 years, this Provost said, ah, now that we've got this critical mass, we don't have to count on all the assistant professors anymore. We can have all the associates and fulls (full professors) do this. Thank you very much. Now that I still get to do it because I have to protect these other people from doing it. 00:22:50.733 --> 00:22:52.255 Yes. 00:22:52.255 --> 00:23:19.634 And it's like, I was always, pressed into service on things. And that was great for--as you could probably tell, I'm not a shy person. And I'm very--I jump in with both feet. I don't know if I would've been tolerated at other campuses with, ideas and wanting to be part of things. I think I would've been the wrong match. Because I can't keep my mouth shut. 00:23:19.634 --> 00:23:22.174 So it's a good, so it was a good environment in those days-- 00:23:22.174 --> 00:25:43.805 It was a great environment for me and when I hire people, it's like, it's still not that solidified. That there's still room to grow. And, if you think you're gonna come here and hide out for six years before we call on you to do things, you've got another thing coming. So I'm telling people in the second and third year, now it's time to step up to do this, and mentor them through the process. I'm a bad example 'cause I did too much early on. But I still think that that spirit of faculty leadership is still much a part of our DNA on this campus. Although, again, as we've gotten bigger over the years--the other thing is, there were people in those days who were the senior people when I came in, who were the-- had the Union and the this, and the faculty who were, they came here mid career, and they were probably at the time in their late thirties, early forties. And so they were the big movers and the shakers. And I thought, someday I'll be one of-- now I'm one of the old people on campus, one of the old timers. You know, how the hell did that happen? But it--and those people who I thought, how--what would the place be like when they're not here anymore? They've gone on, they've retired, they're fine, we're still fine. And it was a great lesson to me. I had given up my office to some-- a new faculty member. I went into the department chair's office and she found a personalized pen with somebody's name on it of a very dear friend of mine who had retired. She said, I don't know who this is. How do you not know who that is? She built this damn place. And I realized that someday that somebody's gonna find my name on something and they'll say, who was he? Even though it seems, I'm pretty high profile around here, but there will be people--there are people on this campus, most of the people on this campus who have never known the campus without Glen Brodowsky's name associated with it. But starting next fall, there'll be people in a post Glen Brodowsky era who won't know. And you know what? It's okay. It's okay. the campus is bigger than all of us. 00:25:43.805 --> 00:25:52.525 Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting sentiment. And so you feel okay about moving on, then? 00:25:52.525 --> 00:26:18.815 You have to be able to let go. One of the things I think I've been very successful in doing is hiring the next generation of faculty. I was hired by faculty who were here 30 years ago, 35 years ago. I've hired faculty that will be here 30 years from now. So I'm connected to the campus for 60 years. That's a pretty amazing thing. 00:26:18.815 --> 00:26:31.105 That is. What do you look for when you're thinking about, I don't wanna say succession planning, but when you're looking towards, bringing people in that will continue to build upon what you built? 00:26:31.105 --> 00:28:29.664 Well, first of all, I'm in the process of-- I haven't even started working at Roosevelt (University) yet, but I'm already in a hiring process for new faculty members. Because they need them. Hiring faculty is the most important thing that you can do as a faculty member. It's the most important thing. Because, it's an awful lot of work. Takes an awful lot of time. And I'm not hiring somebody who I want here for two years. I want somebody for the next 20 years . So it's, will they be happy here? Will they find that this is the right speed for them? People who are looking for a tier one, I just wanna do my research, keep my head down and do my thing and be an independent contractor. They're not gonna be happy here. People who really wanna do a lot of development into programs and initiatives and be involved, they're gonna love it. There're faculty members, they got great records, but I didn't wanna hire them 'cause I knew they'd be miserable here. And who wants to, who wants a miserable colleague? So also, it's like adopting a pet, it's a lifetime commitment. How's I see it. It's not like, oh, I'm tired of it, I'm gonna just give 'em away. No, it's a lifetime commitment and faculty are like that. And so, I've seen people who have been not happy here and they've moved on, and I thought that was the right move for them. And other people who have left and come back. And so there's a kind of a type of person I look for who's just really kind of outgoing and roll up their sleeves. And I want to develop this program and that program and have ideas. Not like, okay, which textbook am I gonna use? And to give my marching orders, and I'll just do my thing. That's not the kind of person that I think of as Cal State San Marcos type. 00:28:29.664 --> 00:28:37.835 Yeah. That makes sense to me. Knowing the faculty that I've interacted with here, it's--I think it fits it pretty well. 00:28:37.835 --> 00:28:57.815 There's someone who I'll point to who are young faculty (unintelligible). She's perfect for this place and this place is perfect for her, and she's going just be great. Because she's gonna be happy here after 20 years, you know? And, life is very short, so if you've gotta do a job, you might as well have one that you like. 00:28:57.815 --> 00:29:21.775 Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You mentioned that, you've kind of talked a lot about kind of this need almost to have folks that are, able to really dive into things. And, I'm putting words in your mouth a little bit, but be a little self-directed in the way that. 00:29:21.775 --> 00:29:22.634 Yes. Yes. Yes 00:29:22.634 --> 00:29:44.924 Yeah. And so you've talked as well about--and kind of circling back to some things that I found about you, and doing research for this interview about--you've mentioned that when you came here, everything was a new initiative, and that you were involved in policy making. and so I was curious as to what some of these changes that you helped implement and what some of the policy making that you were involved with was? 00:29:44.924 --> 00:31:37.234 My first one was a famous one. We had this system called Banner, which runs all the enrollment stuff. We had these courses and we had prerequisites. And there was no way every enforcing prerequisites. And so everything was an exception. And, I didn't take the prerequisite, I want to take the advanced course. And finally I said, can we find a way to code this in so that, they're prevented from enrolling if they don't have the prerequisite? And we found a way to do it. But I remember putting up a sign saying, as of next fall, all prerequisites will be enforced for all College of Business courses, there will be no exceptions made. Not even for you. And I got emails! I was Department Chair of the program for te-- you were preventing me from getting my education, and you're standing in my way and, you're disadvantaging me. And this is so unfair. And the bitching the and the moaning that went on for about a semester or two until the next crop of students came in. And of course you enforce prerequisite. That's how it's done here. And it became part of the culture. this is how it's done. And it was to the good-- to the--because it increases the likelihood that you'll actually pass the course if you've got the background. Yeah. So, it was, there's a lot of pushback. But then once things become normalized, then I, I learned that things will take a, a couple of cycles to kind of get the kinks out. But once it did, now we enforce prerequisites, period. I haven't had anyone in years ask me if they can come in without the prerequisites. 'cause it's just not, not even thinkable anymore. 00:31:37.234 --> 00:31:46.505 Yeah. So, the students obviously that had to adjust and some of them weren't happy about it. Did you run into any pushback from faculty or from advisors? 00:31:46.505 --> 00:33:13.000 No, they were happy with that. I mean, this is a good thing. Just every policy that we put into place over the years and hundreds of them I've seen, on the statewide level too. One of the things that faculty do is before we pass anything, we try to say, well, what about this contingency? What about that contingency? And we try to bake it all in at once. And I finally said, you know what, it's not gonna be right the first time. We're gonna come up with a what if set. We're gonna get an exception in two years, and we're gonna have to revisit the policy. Because something's gonna come up that we didn't anticipate. And it always has happened. So one of the things that I've tried to implement over the years is whenever we have a policy, we put in a clause that says, and this policy will be reviewed in three years and updated. So we'll go back and say, is there anything that we missed? Because, who could have anticipated, the internet, who could have anticipated ChatGPT. What happens to things like who owns, intellectual property in the age of Chegg and Coursera. I mean, how do we, we, the law has not caught up to the technology. So you can't make, ironclad policies. They're going to change. And so why not just build that into the system to say it's time to look at the promotion and tenure policy. 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:14.000 Yeah. 00:33:14.000 --> 00:34:33.735 It's time to look into the--into this. And we just had a big discussion about the promotion and tenure policy this year, about people coming in with service credit and can you go out for early tenure, and how does that work? Well, we had to really think about it. And then we said, okay, we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to grandfather some people in and then move forward, because, if you're coming under one set of rules. Like, with the prerequisites, you think, well, I'm entitled to that. Well, yeah, but that's gonna, that's gonna end and we're gonna have to have some transition. You don't see that when you first start out, but you see that after 5, 10, 15, 20 years of, oh yeah, we're back to this conversation. We had this conversation 15 years ago and yeah, we knew this would come back to bite us in the ass. And sure enough, here it is, and so-- but faculty have this, well, what about this? Because faculty like to just talk about things. It's like, okay, it's not gonna be perfect. Let's send it up the food chain and see what we get and then we'll come back around the next time. Kinda like sending a paper up for review and said, when I first tried to get something published, I had no idea and I wanted it to be perfect. I said, no, you leave a little something for the reviewer to pick on this, then they'll have something to say. You know? 00:34:33.735 --> 00:34:48.094 Yeah. That's wise. And, I think it's smart, to revisit policy as well. I think that's a really good point. Just to circle back and give things in an occasional refresher and to build that process into the actual design of things. 00:34:48.094 --> 00:35:10.855 That's normal. It's normal. And it takes some of the do or die attitude away if you don't get this right. You know? We'll, it's like raising kids. It's like, assume that you need a fund for the, education, the fund for the therapy. Because you could just screw it up. So be prepared. 00:35:10.855 --> 00:35:24.614 Yep. Well, thank you. I wanted to ask you as well, kind of, kind of along those early days, in 2005, you were involved in CSUSM's. Faculty and residence program. 00:35:24.614 --> 00:35:25.139 Yeah. 00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:30.284 And so this is pretty wild. I had not encountered something exactly like this. 00:35:30.284 --> 00:35:30.295 I lived on campus. 00:35:30.295 --> 00:35:37.385 Yes. That's what I wanted to ask you about. So could you talk about the program as a whole and then why faculty members lived on campus? 00:35:37.385 --> 00:36:20.364 Yeah, they would have one university faculty living in the University Village apartments. There's an apartment there. And I had, at that time, I had an apartment, I had my condo here. And I also had met my partner. So we were down in San Diego. Then we had this apartment. I was here four or five nights a week living on campus with the students. My goal was to, have some programming for them, get to know them, maybe. I took a couple students to the symphony and to the theater. Just to kind of bring the quad down there and them up there. And then the second year, there was a wonderful woman who founded our nursing school, Judy Papenhausen. 00:36:20.364 --> 00:36:20.485 Okay 00:36:20.485 --> 00:36:21.000 She-- have you ever heard of her? 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.414 I haven't. 00:36:22.414 --> 00:38:04.344 She retired from Cal State LA and in her seventies came down to Cal State San Marco to build the fa--the nursing school that she always dreamt of. And she was a kind of a tough ole gal, you know? Been around a long time. And she'd been living in a--she had like this camper that she was living in. I said, well, Judy, I said, there's a two bedroom from apartment over there. Why don't you come and shack up with me? So she moved in and we had this two bedroom apartment. And Karen Haynes was like, oh God, Glenn, and Judy are shacking up on campus. Out of wedlock and the whole thing. She's a lesbian, I'm a gay man. It was a big joke. But, and--it was an--it was a nice-- I lived on campus, you know . And, I don't think I did as much with the, as I thought I could have. I don't know. It just, I know one night that there was--they woke me up, but I came out to the hallway and my door closed behind me, and I--they put peanut butter all over the handle. I couldn't open the door. I came into the executive committee meetings. I said to Karen, I said, I don't know what's--they're putting peanut butter on my door and locking me out in the middle of the night. I said, when I went to school, we just did drugs and had sex. What's wrong with these kids? And she's like, oh God, I think people know we made a bad choice here. But it was, it was a fun thing to do and I was the second person to do it, and Scott Greenwood did it first, and I think he was probably more successful. 00:38:04.344 --> 00:38:09.387 Okay. So what was the, like, what was the goal of having the--what was the University's goal in having a professor live in the dorms? 00:38:09.387 --> 00:38:17.764 I think just to kind of join the academic and the student affairs element of it and have, have an adult presence there. 00:38:17.764 --> 00:38:22.204 And do you think it was--so you said maybe, Scott was a little more successful than you were. 00:38:22.204 --> 00:38:44.355 I think he was more involved in it. I think he was--had his wife there, and so they were like dorm parents and things like that. And, I did work a lot with the RAs now that was kind of nice. So I enjoyed it. I did it for about a year and a half, and I said, it's time for somebody else. And I think that--I don't know if anybody else did it after I did it, it was a short-lived program. 00:38:44.355 --> 00:38:47.000 Okay. Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask you was if it, if it continued on or not. 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:48.000 Yeah, no it didn't 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:53.525 Okay. I wanted to ask you as well about the Jewish Faculty and Staff Association. 00:38:53.525 --> 00:41:02.945 I got involved in that a couple years ago. And, the first thing I tried to do is I said, let's have, a dinner at my house. Our Friday night, which is Shabbat, I said, and I'll have a, a nice spread. Everybody will come and we'll have a social event. Well, it's too Jewish. What about people who aren't,-- it's the Jewish-- I said, it's Friday night at my house. We'll have candles and wine. That's it. People may be offended. I said, why? I mean this--the Jewish faculty here are split this. Some people are just very, very, culturally--or just they identify as Jewish, but want no part of the religion. And they're very progressive. And then there are people like me who are a little bit more conservative and are more religiously oriented. So we had our first--we raised a little bit of money over the years. We had to spend it. And I decided that I was gonna have an interfaith Passover Seder. And we did it last year. And all the faculty, they wanted this, they wanted that, anything but Jewish things, they just wanted all this political stuff. And I said, we're gonna do this. Had the meal, had the whole thing, and none of the faculty and staff showed up. This one was too busy. This one had foot surgery that--So they all want to have their input on it, but nobody wanted to do any of the work. So here I am schlepping food and cooking food and doing all this stuff. And I said, there doesn't really seem to be very much will for this to happen. but I stuck with it for two or three years and, it was the only event that we ever had was that Seder. And, the Provost was there and the Vice Presidents for all the other-- couple of faculty, a couple deans. I had seating for 50 people, 10 people showed up. We had a little circle. We had a very nice Seder. And then I was taking all this food to this homeless shelters around trying to get rid of this food, you know? At night, because, everybody was--everybody wanted to say what they wanted, but nobody was willing to do anything. 00:41:02.945 --> 00:41:06.965 Is there--so you-- there's about 50 Jewish faculty and staff on campus? 00:41:06.965 --> 00:41:11.474 I don't even think there's that much. I think there's maybe 15. It's a very small number. 00:41:11.474 --> 00:41:17.364 Yeah. Yeah. So is there, is there, other than the Jewish Faculty and Staff Association are there like--. 00:41:17.364 --> 00:42:06.675 Hillel is active now. And Chabad is active. Chabad is right here in San Marcos. And, Chabad are very, very conservative religious organization. But they are serving a purpose. The students are going there, they outreach, the students, students go there. And then they (say) we don't want Chabad here. They're too religious, but they're the ones who are serving the students. And I think they're doing a great job. And now Hillel has become much more active on campus, especially with the recent, protests. My husband as of today, is on the board of Hillel. So he's involved with that. It's a good organization. So there are not that many Jews on this campus. Maybe there's a hundred. 00:42:06.675 --> 00:42:10.144 What is the, what is the mission of Hillel? I'm not, familiar. 00:42:10.144 --> 00:42:13.224 Hillel is a Jewish student organization. 00:42:13.224 --> 00:42:15.045 Oh, okay. It's a student organization. Okay very cool. 00:42:15.045 --> 00:42:54.614 Student organization. It's, international. It's--most campuses have it. There's usually Hillel House on campus, and they have social, and they have--and also like at UCSD, they have a big facility. UCSD is a pretty rough place right now with the,with protests. And Jewish students don't feel very safe on campus. They're being harassed and so they hang out at the Hillel Center and we try to provide a safe space for them just to feel, that it's--that they're not, on display so much and they can just kind of breathe. 00:42:54.614 --> 00:42:59.735 Yeah. Those, I mean, student identity and inclusion spaces are really important for people to 00:42:59.735 --> 00:42:59.744 They're important! 00:42:59.744 --> 00:43:00.764 Get a break from the larger-- 00:43:00.764 --> 00:43:34.925 Yes. Yes. I am-- I was never into having, these--we have separate graduations for different--I am--I'm much more integrated into everything. I'm much more like one graduation. We all wear the same stupid robe in the same hat. We're all the same. So I'm not really a big proponent of these, designated spaces, but I understand their importance. And Hillel's an international organization, and they have programming and, support services for Jewish students. 00:43:34.925 --> 00:43:40.385 Has there been any talk on campus here of having like a Jewish student center or anything like that? 00:43:40.385 --> 00:43:59.775 No. It's too small. And the Hillel--Chabad house is right down the street and they open their home on Friday nights for everybody. And I think it's wonderful. They're the ones with the black hats and the wigs and the (unintelligible). You know, I went to my period of working with Chabad, I don't know if you were here-- Yes. With the shooting at Chabad. 00:43:59.775 --> 00:44:01.585 Yeah. Yeah. 00:44:01.585 --> 00:44:03.565 I was on my way there that day. 00:44:03.565 --> 00:44:03.985 Oh my gosh! 00:44:03.985 --> 00:44:39.695 When it happened. Because I was doing some work with them. So I know that rabbi quite well. Yeah. He turned out to be a convicted felon. He went to jail. And so, I went from, thinking, oh, my whole life that I was--and I was born in Crown Heights, which is where the headquarters is in Brooklyn with all the black hats. And I'm not one of those people. I always felt like, oh, I'll never be good enough to be one of those very pious Jews. And then I found out that, after that I said, well, maybe not quite up to stuff for me. Yeah. So, it was interesting. 00:44:39.695 --> 00:44:47.764 Thank you. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about the consultant to the President that you did as well. 00:44:47.764 --> 00:45:33.465 At that time, I was consulting on the logo and also the budget. There was a budget discussion and the President wanted to get the faculties feeling on budget issues. And so I did a number of focus groups with faculty about the process. This is with President Gonzalez. And basically what I found,--I said--was, that they wanted the Presidents to take a more active role. They were not trying to say don't do it. They said, we wanna see some leadership. So I sat in the President's office, says Alex they're were looking to you for leadership and direction. Don't fuck it up. 00:45:33.465 --> 00:45:43.724 So what was--so, Gonzalez was the second President after Stacey, then Karen Haynes comes in. What do you--were you here when Stacey was here? 00:45:43.724 --> 00:45:47.304 Oh yes. I remember. I remember Dr. Stacy. He just passed away. 00:45:47.304 --> 00:45:54.625 Yes. Yeah. So what do you think like the differences between them were. 00:45:54.625 --> 00:47:20.914 You know, very few people liked Alex. He was not light. And he was considered, the Chancellor's guy. He was, I remember, one of the things, he was, the interim President after Stacy, and then, Charlie Reed, who nobody liked except I liked him. Appointed him the President, and they were having the installation of the appointed no search President, which I dubbed the Coronation . So we were all going to the coronation. And that was the term that we used. That was my word 'cause I remembered that from Mr. Rogers, with the king and the queen. They had the world coronation. and I, and Alex was never quite comfortable in his own skin. He was, quite--lemme tell you a story about Alex. So, I saw him at a dinner at the Chancellor's office once. And, I said, Alex, thank you for everything he did on our campus. He left it in great shape. And Karen has taken it in a new direction. He said, yeah, but those two buildings that she opened up, I got the funding for. It's like-- I told Karen that. She said, yeah, that sounds like Alex. It's like he was not able to be gracious in terms of just, he was trying too hard. 00:47:20.914 --> 00:51:32.474 And I looked-- worked very well with him, and I liked him, and I could sit in (unintelligible). They're looking for leadership. Don't fuck it up, Alex. I said that to him. Karen was--Karen was a force of nature. She was, a huge personality. Everything with Karen was somewhat formal. Even though she was very folksy. Everything was very scripted. Everything was very planned to the letter. And then I came along and, I remember, she always had these outfits that she like, remember those? Monochromatic, one color, the earrings the dress the purse. She used to change her purse every night to match her--And she had these sea foam green shoes on and this matching two piece outfit in the same color. And she was at McMahan house. I said, Karen, I said, I have the same pair of shoes that I've been looking for, the perfect outfit, and only you could find it. And she--she had a huge personality. She was very good with the donors. Some of them. She built a lot. She was the right woman at the right time. She was very senior. She was respected at the Chancellor's office. She had a lot of gravitas. And so I think for that huge growth spurt, she was the ideal person. And I liked working with her. I remember she had this thing over at the reading room here about health--health--allied health careers, and all these people from around the county talking about Allied Health at PalomarCollege. And, not medical school, not nursing, but other things. So she asked me to give a little talk. And I said, I think that you have to start really young with students. I thought first time I played a doctor was in elementary school, So she used to use me as kind of a, an MC type of, she would never appoint me to a real position. I was--but I was like, this spice that she had it sometimes if you use it the right way and sparingly, it was the right accent piece. And we--I understood my place. She surrounded herself with, a lot of good looking young gay men. She liked that. I wasn't good looking enough that that coterie of boys that she had around her. But she liked me and she was--I liked her. I think she was a great President for the time. And Ellen Neufeldt, Boy, talk about a baptism of fire. She comes here and then we had a crisis. We had a scandal, and then boom into pandemic mode. And yet she's really come through all that. She's a very strong President. Very different style than Ellen--than Karen. Much more folksy, much more down to earth in ways. And I've worked really well with her as well. Probably worked more closely with Ellen than I did with any of them 'cause I was chair of the Senate . And I always felt, to be very accessible and very open to ideas. And so, I know if other people have other things to say, but I have--I never felt like I--like I worked for the administration. There was a time when I didn't get the Brakebill Award (Distinguished Professor Award at CSUSM) once, and my colleague got it. And Rather than be bitter, I threw a party at my house for 60 people. And I called and baked, and I invited the President and the Provost at the time. 00:51:32.474 --> 00:53:49.355 And they both came to my house. It was Karen Haynes and Emily Cutrer. And they said, this is the first time we've been invited to a faculty's home. I said, wow. That's telling. I have all these people here. I'm giving them a tour of my house, which is very dicey, you know. And, I was up in my bedroom. I said, I just wanna tell you, I don't work for you. You're not my boss. I work for the state of California and I serve the students and the taxpayers. You have a different job on that campus in that we serve different functions, but we all have the same boss. I don't work for you. And they said, we wish more faculty thought of it that way. So I never looked at them as like, that's my boss, you know? They're partners and they have a different role. They have a different perspective and a different viewpoint. Vantage point. And so I've worked with every President. I've no problem walking into the President's office or the dean's office, or the provost office is saying, we need to get this done, or this is pure bullshit, we need to fix this. And I was never afraid. And I don't know, people say, I'm privileged. I'm a white male. I could get away with that I could never do when I was a black woman. I don't, I don't know if that's a joke. I--it's just that's my style and it served me well here. And it--well, I got in trouble a couple times, but we won't talk about those But, I, think if you comment things from a--always assumed that everybody has good intentions, that even though I think what the President or the provost is doing is completely boneheaded that I--or the board of trustees god help us. They do crazy things. I think their intentions are good. Now. How we get it done may be impossible. But if you start with, I don't think that they're out to make it worse. And we all cop to that. We're all trying to make it better. We have different ideas about how to get there, but if we can always assume that we're all coming at it with positive intentions, I think that, that solves a lot of problems. 00:53:49.355 --> 00:53:53.204 Yeah. And it sounds like you've had good relationships with all of the Presidents that you worked with. 00:53:53.204 --> 00:54:09.514 All of them, I've worked with I dunno, ten deans? I could rank order them if you want, but I won't. But there've been, good ones there have been bad ones, but there's been none that I couldn't work with them. I'm gonna be myself. 00:54:09.514 --> 00:54:12.965 Yeah. 00:54:12.965 --> 00:54:13.594 I am. 00:54:13.594 --> 00:54:15.304 Yeah. Yeah. 00:54:15.304 --> 00:54:45.795 So it's been--what a ride. I mean, who gets to build a place? Who gets to sit here and look at this? Oh, yeah. Well, we did that. I remember when that wasn't there. Or, the day we opened the library, my god, Karen Hayes was standing outside the library and Alex built the library. He got credit for that, and I said to Karen, I said, you know what? This is my baby. This is my life's work right here. Take care of it. 00:54:45.795 --> 00:55:01.605 Yeah. I don't know where to, where to go with that, but it's a wonderful-- 00:55:01.605 --> 00:55:16.155 That's how I feel. I mean, I'm leaving with--I couldn't have had a better career. Could not have had a better--couldn't have planned it better. 00:55:16.155 --> 00:55:31.000 So, a lot of this that you've talked about, a lot of this, kind of need to take initiative and need to, wear many hats, really has given you a skillset now where you can go, back to Chicago and, and be a dean there. 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:32.000 Yeah. 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:34.894 And so in that way, it's been, it's been a really good environment for you to-- 00:55:34.894 --> 00:55:40.835 The President said that you built the campus, you know how to do that. 00:55:40.835 --> 00:57:04.000 Yeah. I've had a nice research career. I've done my research, done a lot of research. I've taught a lot I've taught all over the world, you know? One of the things I say to new faculty is, you can do great research. You can do great teaching, you can do great service. You have to do all three. You don't have to do all three every day. Every week or even every semester. There are times when you should be really focusing on your research. You got a great project, you gotta get tenure, you gotta get this done. But then, once that's done, maybe you should be developing some new curriculum or being on a committee, or, chairing a--I was in--I was president of a professional organization for a couple of years. I mean, so you do different things, at different times. And so there's always something new about the career. You know, I spent 17 years traveling around the world teaching. 14 years on statewide academic center. I published 30 articles, and then I just published two books, but I didn't do everything at the same time. You know. 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:11.315 Let's, talk about your guest teaching. So you've taught in Taiwan multiple times. You've taught in-- 00:57:11.315 --> 00:57:13.534 I'm supposed to be there now. I had to give it up. 00:57:13.534 --> 00:57:14.454 Oh, I'm sorry. 00:57:14.454 --> 00:57:19.255 That's, that's my-- Taiwan, Copenhagen-- 00:57:19.255 --> 00:57:19.264 Ecuador. 00:57:19.264 --> 00:57:39.014 Ecuador to Shanghai. Taiwan started as a Fulbright. I looked at the Fulbright. I said, that one has my name on it. 'cause I had lived in Taiwan. I got it and I spent five months there, and I reconnected with some old friends of mine who I knew in the eighties (1980s). 00:57:39.014 --> 00:57:39.718 Nice. 00:57:39.718 --> 00:58:21.000 Who now is like, this woman is like my sister. I've known her literally for 40 years. And we've never--we don't speak any English. It's all Chinese. And they liked me, and they started inviting me back every year. So I got invited back every year through this year. I was supposed to be there now teaching, but I said, I've gotta start a dean's position. I've gotta move. I've gotta finish-- I just couldn't do. And it, 17, 18 times doing the same thing. It's--I think at a certain point it's time to say it's been terrific, but they'll move on. 00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:23.000 Yeah. 00:58:23.000 --> 00:59:36.855 But that was great. That was just like--kept up my Mandarin and I kept up my friendships and I loved Taiwan. I'm like a local there. And then somebody suggested I try Copenhagen Business School. So I applied. Got it. And there was like this group of us that would come in every summer for 10 years. We'd all fly in from all over the world. We'd hang out, rent apartments together, have parties go out to dinner. It was like summer camp. And, so I'd have everybody over and I'd cook and I'd bake and we'd travel on the weekends. It was great. And then right before COVID, I was getting a little bit tired of it. And then the guy who I used to call my summer husband, because we had--we shared an apartment. They didn't invite him back. At the last minute. They invited everybody else, and they didn't even send them a no thank you. They just didn't. And I thought that was kind of rotten. And I thought, God, if that happens to me, and it could, because I'd seen them do it. That would really ruin it for me. I would--I'd feel really awful if like, we were not invited back. 00:59:36.855 --> 00:59:36.864 Yeah. 00:59:36.864 --> 01:00:35.255 And I was only going back for the 11th year because we had the apartment. And when he got canned, a lovely man, he's at University of Oregon, one of the campuses up near Redford. Southern Oregon. I said, I don't need the apartment. I don't need to go back. I've done it 10 times. There's nothing new here. I had a new book coming out. My parents were getting older, so I said, I'm not gonna go back. And they said, oh my God, how are we gonna replace you? We-- you were a brilliant teacher, and we would love to have, but we understand that you have older parents. So I got outta that one, and COVID happened, and the whole program went online, and it's never been the same since. And the esprit de corp, is not there. Everybody's kind of on their own way. I got out at the right time. 01:00:35.255 --> 01:00:35.264 Yeah. 01:00:35.264 --> 01:00:50.073 Ecuador came to me, out of the blue. Would you like to teach a course in Ecuador in international marketing research? Sure. What the hell? I get an invitation like that. Why not? 01:00:50.073 --> 01:00:51.914 Yeah. 01:00:51.914 --> 01:01:48.335 So I went and I drove this poor woman crazy. She ran the place and she told her I was crazy until I got there. And I had a very successful course. And I got invited back four more times over the years. But the first--you never know if you're gonna get invited back. So I flew my partner down. We went to the Galápagos, whatever money I made down there, it went--yeah. I'm in South America, Ecuador, I may never be here again. Let's blow the money on the Galápagos. Fabulous. Next year. I went to the jungle. I went to the Amazon, I went to Machu Picchu, loved it. I got another sabbatical, and I applied to be at the China European International Business School, CEIBS. Shanghai, four weeks, 25 grand. The most prestigious that I could get. I hated it. They hated me. The most lucrative one didn't last. 01:01:48.335 --> 01:01:48.344 So-- 01:01:48.344 --> 01:01:50.000 So you win some, you lose some-- 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:51.000 Yeah. 01:01:51.000 --> 01:03:31.724 But, you know, three out of four, where I was invited back multiple years and never was not invited back. I mean, it's--I was--and so that was about almost 20 years of my life where I was doing international work. Which is what I wanted to do. I had a beachhead in Asia. I had one in South America. I had one in Europe. Plus I was gonna Mexico. I was going to Germany, all that. But I mean, I was really an international lecturer all on my own. and it was great for about 17 years. And then COVID happened. I thought, I don't have to fly internationally. I did. It was great. And I made the most of it. And that was a big chapter of my life that's --it's kind of behind me. But boy, it was great. And sure. How could, how could you be somebody who teaches international marketing, cross-cultural marketing, doing it, sitting in California. So I, I did it. And I was able to do it and get away in the middle of the semester and schedule things and go away for four or five weeks at a time. They never missed me. I was, the department chair, was running meetings on Zoom at three o'clock in the morning, whatever I was doing, they let me get away with this. I can't believe it and yet, I never didn't do my job. I never--I was a reliable vote on everything and whatever. So, boy was I lucky. 01:03:31.724 --> 01:03:44.045 So what was the biggest--what was the biggest adjustment in teaching when you teach overseas as opposed to here. 01:03:44.045 --> 01:03:46.228 I do it exactly the same way. 01:03:46.228 --> 01:03:46.720 Yeah. 01:03:46.720 --> 01:04:36.625 I mean, even when I did it in Ecuador, I had a simultaneous translator who turned out to be a good buddy of mine. We've been friends for years now. we've worked on some projects together. So that was a little bit--learning to pace myself so that he was simultaneously translating. That was not that bad. I just never adjusted to the program. And in Shanghai, it just . They evaluated me after the third day, and it was not good. And it was too heterogeneous a course, class. It's just--at the time-- it just didn't work. I'm sorry, it didn't, but Taiwan was easy. Taiwan was, now during COVID, I taught in Taiwan, I had eight hour classes. 01:04:36.625 --> 01:04:37.505 Wow. 01:04:37.505 --> 01:05:19.204 00 PM in front of my computer till two, three o'clock in the morning, drinking coffee here in California. But I--I've been teaching international students since I was in college. I tell the same jokes. I'm used to a non-English speaking audience. I'm used to talking to people in a way that they can understand. I speak slowly. I give lots of examples. I've had the same response from students wherever I've gone. 01:05:19.204 --> 01:05:24.764 Could you talk about cross-cultural marketing and what--for a layman like myself, what is-- 01:05:24.764 --> 01:09:11.000 Interestingly enough, the first book I did was about cross-cultural international marketing, comparing Germany and France and France and China and all these kind of--how is marketing different? How do people consume products differently? How do they use products differently? A lot of my marketing was about time, how do people conceive of time differently in different places? And it is very different. And it feels different whether, in certain places things are very linear. You do A and then B and C and D and other places, everything's going on all at once. It doesn't make any sense. It could be very disconcerting. And so a lot of the earlier work was about comparing things on the national level . And then what I realized is that culture--countries are not cultures. Countries are multidimensional. So the second book was more about intercultural marketing, let's say taking Southern California and looking at dividing that up between the Latino culture. that if you're looking at the Asian culture in San Diego, it really is not Chinese. It's Vietnamese and Filipino. Okay. If you go to LA and San Francisco there is a Japanese culture there, you've got hip hop culture, you've got--Latino culture is not a monolith theater. You've got here. It's all Mexicans. In New York, it's Puerto Ricans and Ecuadorians and in Florida it's Cubans. They all speak Spanish, but music's different. The food's different. Some of the things are similar. I mean, it tends to be Catholic and family oriented and male dominated. There's certain kind of Latin things. But then even within that, you've got first generation Latinos who just came here, and their parents are different. They consume differently. They speak differently. They see the world differently. So the cross-cultural marketing, some of it I think of doing, in terms of, you could look at things in terms of cross-cultural differences, which are interesting, where you need to change the product or the price, or the color or whatever it is. And other things, you don't have to change everything. There's certain things that will go cross cultures. And so if you can find similarities, well, we could have one product for two groups of people. That saves us a lot of money. That's a lot more profitable. So I'm as interested in looking at cross national differences as I am looking at international differences. And even if you look at things like-- then you have segments that are--you find all over the world. So diaspora marketing. So you find Indian populations all over the world. You find, Hasidic Jews all over the world. They have more in common with one another than anyone who lives within this 400 mile radius of where they live. But that--there's similarities there. So how do we serve those communities that you--or you look at the, businessmen okay. Who are traveling through international airports. They're shopping in Sky Mall. They're buying stuff. They're buying Fendi and Courvoisier at the duty free. They're buying gifts for their wives when they're coming home. They're buying gifts for their mistresses when they're going. So there's a lot going on. And they all carry the same kind of briefcases and wear the same kind of shoes. And yet they may come from 10 different countries. And then the ultra wealthy. I mean, some of the wealthiest people in the world live in the poorest countries. They own them. 01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.000 Yeah. 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:45.844 Okay. So how--so that's another segment. So you can set with market based upon wealth, and that's--that goes across countries. And then there are also things that are very national. There are things that are very American that are very different in things that are very Canadian. Believe it or not, there are differences there. Don't ever tell 'em-- a Canadian, that they're just like Americans. We're just like--Americans are just like us. We're just nicer. You know, you have to look at it from their perspective. It is a different culture. 01:09:45.844 --> 01:09:45.854 Yeah. 01:09:45.854 --> 01:11:00.375 It may be subtle. So, in my book, first book, I had a lot of the more classic, scholars from going back for the past 70 years, who've done work on international marketing, international negotiations. All these different models that we've used to try to understand these differences, none of are terribly perfect. None of 'em are perfect at all. And then the second one is says, what about the African American market? What about hiphop? Hiphop is now a multinational--it's not just an American thing, and it's not just a Black thing. It's kind of the music of the oppressed and the under classes. But then American Blacks' think it's a Black thing, but then you go around the coun--, the world. And it's like, no, there are people--there are more non-Black people who are fans of hip hop than there are Black people. But is it still a Black--isn't it our thing? When the music of the counterculture becomes the mainstream does it lose its authenticity? These are interesting questions. And that's some of the work that I do. 01:11:00.375 --> 01:11:42.324 Okay. That is really interesting. And you talked a lot about intercultural--I'm trying to wrap my head around it as I just got like a very beginner seminar in it. so you talk a lot about the kind of the intercultural, connections that you can make across cultures. I'm interested to know, I guess, how marketing--how you can look at marketing, and implement marketing across cultures when there are structures in place that maybe function very differently. Like we look at marketing, I assume, I'm making an assumption here. We look at marketing very differently than maybe somebody in, China does. 01:11:42.324 --> 01:12:07.104 Absolutely. Well, they're not--Here's one of the things that's very interesting. I'll use Taiwan as an example. Taiwan makes great products. Fabulous products. Their phones are the best phones in the world. And yet they're the shittiest marketers on Earth. They don't know how to market because they view marketing and the Chinese, to an extent do as well, as expense. 01:12:07.104 --> 01:12:07.824 Okay. 01:12:07.824 --> 01:12:16.104 Okay? Branding is not important. Branding is--it's--they--they're much more engineering driven. Okay. 01:12:16.104 --> 01:13:59.364 Whereas a company like Apple or Samsung, they make their products sexy. The HTC phone is, every bit as good, if not superior to the Samsung. But HTC is not a sexy brand. Samsung invested billions of dollars in marketing and in brand building. In making it something where I want a Samsung. The Chinese to their-- the Chinese and the Taiwanese, their mindset is a little different. It's like, we just wanna make it cheap and efficient. We wanna make our profit on having good quality and selling a lot. So they don't really have exclusive brands. Now, Huawei is doing something a little bit different. Huawei is, now you'll go around the world and you'll see Huawei in airports, and they're spending billions of dollars on marketing, and they're gonna become the next Samsung. But certainly the Japanese and the--and the Koreans are very similar 'cause they were much more export oriented. They really kind of understood that we have a small market at home and we have to make our products desirable in the West. China, not so much. They've got 1.3 billion people there. So just in terms of what they've-- Taiwanese just do not invest in marketing. They do not invest in branding. They don't care. They invest in technology. They are the world's best OEM. They will make the best components. You can't build a bicycle or a saxophone or a computer without a Taiwanese component. 01:13:59.364 --> 01:14:01.625 I'm sorry, what's an OEM? Just to clarify. 01:14:01.625 --> 01:14:04.454 Original equipment manager. So they make the components. 01:14:04.454 --> 01:14:05.574 Okay. 01:14:05.574 --> 01:14:32.494 They said, we wanna become an OBM, original brand manufacturer. Well fine invest in branding. Spend this much money on your branding as you're doing your R&D. Oh, we couldn't do that. We just want people to write--It's like. So there--and look, you need somebody who makes good components. So let's brand Taiwan as like Taiwan inside, like Intel inside. 01:14:32.494 --> 01:14:35.104 Yeah. 01:14:35.104 --> 01:14:37.164 They're not willing to spend the money. 01:14:37.164 --> 01:14:38.539 So how, as-- I mean as a marketer- 01:14:38.539 --> 01:14:39.000 Frustrating 01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:45.000 how do you market the importance of marketing to people that don't-- 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:46.000 Very slowly. 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:49.000 Yeah. 01:14:49.000 --> 01:15:01.989 But yeah. And look, Levi's. McDonald's. Coca-Cola. IBM, it's all branding. The products are not--I mean, nobody thinks that McDonald's is good. 01:15:01.989 --> 01:15:08.594 Yep. It's not a good product. Marlboro, if you, if you use it correctly, you will die. 01:15:08.594 --> 01:15:08.604 Yeah. 01:15:08.604 --> 01:15:16.385 But my God, the Marlboro man, everyone wants to be that rugged individual. 01:15:16.385 --> 01:15:17.284 Yeah. 01:15:17.284 --> 01:15:21.784 That's what they want to be. 01:15:21.784 --> 01:15:30.414 Yep. That's very-- that's very interesting. So, and I do wanna be mindful of your time. How are you on time? 01:15:30.414 --> 01:15:37.864 Fine. I'm just--I'm realizing that hopefully I didn't leave my wallet where I think it's. 01:15:37.864 --> 01:15:58.824 Okay. let me ask you a little bit about marketing. About-- I'm gonna ask you to forecast a little bit. Obviously we're seeing huge technological changes and we really have been since the advent of the internet. But--so I guess my first question is, how has marketing changed since, the advent of the Internet? 01:15:58.824 --> 01:18:34.000 It's completely data driven. Completely. There (is) more data than ever there's no shortage of data. We need people who could interpret data and extract information. What does it mean? What does it tell us? So there'll be jobs and data analysis. Students don't have a good grasp on that. Those who can take information and say, well, what this means is this. Not, here's this number. 30% do this, 20% do-- That's nice. But what could we say with that? What can we conclude. Those skills are, are lacking. I think, also the old kind of-- the company tells you what it wants to tell you about its products is gone. It--it's all C to C it's all consumer to consumer. It's all word of mouth. I mean, they always said word of mouth is the strongest marketing before the internet. Now it's like on steroids, because, you're gonna go to Yelp, you're gonna go to TripAdvisor. You wanna see what other travelers say, okay. You know, the commercial doesn't tell you. It's the reviews that tell you that's the first thing that you go to. So, there was a wonderful thing I heard from a person from Marriott who was sitting with me through a number of musicals. You're no longer a brand manager. You're a brand steward. You were--and you have to work with consumers. And you have to understand your customers so that they become your ambassadors. You have to create, evangelists for your brand. Who will tell their friends and rave about it. 'cause they'll also complain about it a lot more. So--and they'll destroy you. So, it's not just how do we craft a message? How do we convince people something that's-- it's not that. It's how do we get people excited about what we're doing so that they'll tell everybody else? So I think the two biggest trends are data. Data, and data and so you got Teradata down, (and) down the road, so-- and what Teradata does is it takes all these data from what you've done. So, you know how, you look at the upgrade list when you're trying to get onto the flight? It's like--and there's like--so like six seats in first class. And I'm always the seventh person so I never get the seat. Sometimes I do, but how do they figure out who gets the seat? 01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:36.000 Yeah. Yeah. 01:18:36.000 --> 01:19:12.614 You know, but there's a lot of information. How many miles do you have? How often do you fly? How many upgrades? There's a whole thing of algorithms that, that they take these enormous amounts of data that we hit--that we have about every customer. And then how do we look at it so that we could make decisions to say, well, it's not rewarding you as a customer, but rewarding the right customer. 'cause that's the customer that's going to become the sustainable customer. You know, customers are an investment. 01:19:12.614 --> 01:19:12.625 Interesting. 01:19:12.625 --> 01:20:01.000 You wanna reward those that are gonna--everybody likes to get something for free, but which one gets it for free? What benefits the company the most? Also, and that could also be where's the goodwill? I mean, how do we, how are we good corporate citizens? You can't get away with the things you've got whether 50 years ago 'cause everybody's gonna read about you. So, do we sponsor,--if we're gonna support Donald Trump, what's that gonna cost us in terms of some of our customers? So we--if we do support Donald Trump with our marketing, is it gonna get us more customers? I talk about this a lot in classes talking about politics. Please it's the biggest marketing campaign every four years as a Presidential election. Why do you vote for this guy? 01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:02.000 Yeah. 01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:18.515 And frankly, very few people are indifferent to Donald Trump. They either absolutely love him and think he's the second coming, or they think he's the devil incarnate. There's not anybody that goes, well, if we get him, it doesn't matter. 01:20:18.515 --> 01:20:19.465 Yeah. 01:20:19.465 --> 01:20:29.095 Nobody feels that strongly about Biden. I don't get the, we gotta get this guy. He's so great. 01:20:29.095 --> 01:20:32.435 So from a marketing perspective, how do you, how do you market him.? 01:20:32.435 --> 01:21:02.734 Donald Trump is a brilliant marketer. He's a brilliant marketer. He knows how to resonate with his audience to say, you have this problem. I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna fix it. I'm going to kick ass and take names. Well, some people will just say, yes, you're right. You shall lead us. And other people are shivering in their boots. But nobody's indifferent. 01:21:02.734 --> 01:21:09.314 Yeah. And then you have somebody, a candidate like Biden. How does--how do you market Biden? 01:21:09.314 --> 01:21:24.795 Well, I mean, he was marketed as kind of the anti-Trump, you know? He was calmer. He was supposed to just keep things even keeled. If it's too chaotic, here's an alternative. I'll just keep (inaudible). 01:21:24.795 --> 01:21:28.324 Yeah. So it kind of, it kind of comes back to Trump. 01:21:28.324 --> 01:21:49.114 Yeah. Exactly. But it-- you can't not talk about. I always turn on CNN, which is an anti-Trump, station, and I always count how many seconds go by before I heard the name Trump. And it's usually about six. 24 hours a day. You can't buy coverage like that. 01:21:49.114 --> 01:21:51.444 Yeah. Yeah. 01:21:51.444 --> 01:21:52.564 Yeah. 01:21:52.564 --> 01:22:02.225 Yep. I wanted to ask you a little bit about teaching and, just kind of the--kind of wrapping up-- 01:22:02.225 --> 01:22:58.505 I'm a frustrated actor, I was not good enough to be a--I love to perform. I like to be in front of a group. I like to be the center of attention. I feel like Phil Donahue or (inaudible) running around a room and getting everybody excited and talking and participating. It's the most fun I can have with all my clothes on. on the worst days of my life in my career, and those are the best teaching days. 'cause when something's really bothering me and I'm all pent up and I can walk into a room and become this other character. And everything outside melts away. And Dr. B is this much nicer version of me. Based upon my life. Not really, but, an exaggerated version of me. 01:22:58.505 --> 01:23:02.005 How is it an exaggerated version or a nicer version of you? 01:23:02.005 --> 01:24:14.604 Well, I can't say the F word as much. I don't know. It's just, I'm having fun. I'm not stuck in my own, what's-- my best days are--I've had a bad customer experience. Another comment--I would tell you everything went wrong in the store. And related to you--in real life. I just--I remember once, this is after my partner died, the first year I was teaching at UC Riverside, I taught there for a couple years as an adjunct. And I walked down into this auditorium and I'm walking down and my face is long and the weight of the world on my shoulder. I was widowed. And I turned around to the classroom and it was different. It all went away. And I was fully present in this moment. Talking about interesting stuff. 01:24:14.604 --> 01:24:15.795 Yeah. 01:24:15.795 --> 01:25:07.000 Asking them interesting questions, getting them to talk, getting them to think. Yeah. Why did they package it that way? Why did they price it that way? Why do they have that in the commercial? What are they trying to say? What's going on? What's the message? One thing, the fun thing about teaching marketing is, not everyone's gonna be an accountant. Not everybody's well you know-- not every-you can take an English class, you might not be an ex(pert), you are always gonna be a customer. You're always gonna be involved in marketing transactions. So even if you never become a marketer, okay, you are being marketed to 24 hours a day. Wouldn't you like to be a more active participant in that? Wouldn't you like to know what's going on? 01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:08.000 Yeah. 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:11.064 I would. 01:25:11.064 --> 01:25:15.145 So you have a built-in, level of engagement then? 01:25:15.145 --> 01:26:17.664 Yes. Yes. I mean, I talk about this, I talk about toilet paper, I talk about tampons, I talk about, I talk about cars. I talk about, gas mileage and going to Costco. I had a group of students--I got to teach this group of Italian students this past semester and they'd never been to a Costco. And it was a three hour class. And I showed a video about distribution, and we talked about pizza. I said, well, it's 6:30. I got an idea. Let's take a field trip. And we all went to Costco. It's like 10 students, five Americans, five Italians. And we went around Costco and we looked at everything and I said, let's try the pizza. 'cause they're all Italians. And we got the pizza. We got them to rate pizza. But it's like, this is how--this is where people shop in America. They shop in one of 3, 4 places. They either go to Target, Walmart, Costco, or Amazon. I'd say that covers about 80% of where people shop. 01:26:17.664 --> 01:26:20.104 Yeah. 01:26:20.104 --> 01:26:32.265 And they go, this is different. The places the size of an air airport hangar, you don't have that in Italy. 01:26:32.265 --> 01:26:38.005 How has your-- has your teaching evolved over time? Have you changed your approaches or--? 01:26:38.005 --> 01:27:27.284 I use a lot more simulations. A lot more technology. I'm more comfortable letting them work in groups, especially with the long classes in Taiwan, it's eight hours. So I'll give a two hour lecture in the morning, and we'll take a break, and then maybe we will break up and do a case study. And I'll walk around to different groups, and then we'll go to lunch and they'll come back and they'll work on the simulation. So it doesn't all have to be about me. I used to think I was-- I had to be on, if it was the 90 minute class, I had to be actively engaged at teaching. And, I think I've gotten more comfortable with letting them learn. You know. 01:27:27.284 --> 01:27:38.354 Yeah. Kind of talking about students and letting them learn. Have you seen our student body evolve over time? 01:27:38.354 --> 01:28:09.175 I think post COVID, there's been some--there's been some real loss of social skills, real loss of engagement. I see that also among the faculty, people not knowing how to behave. People don't know how to engage with people anymore. I mean, I think COVID was a real eyeopener about how fragile our systems, our social systems or our educational systems, our financial systems, our logistics systems, everything broke down. 01:28:09.175 --> 01:28:11.154 Things are still breaking down. 01:28:11.154 --> 01:28:29.994 They are still not back where they were. No, they're not. When you turn off a faucet and it doesn't just come back on when you open the spigot. So, yeah. There's a lack of engagement. 01:28:29.994 --> 01:28:41.354 Yep. I just wanted to ask you about your--just to wrap up, I wanted to ask you about faculty Senate, and--so you're chair. 01:28:41.354 --> 01:30:01.015 Yes, I loved it. I was afraid. I thought, I've been asked to do it many times throughout my career, and I said, no 'cause I prefer to be on the committee, not in charge of the committee. Because he could be speak more freely, but--and I wasn't planning to do it. And I ran a couple years ago and I lost. I said, well, the hell with it. And then I was asked to do it, and I said, okay, I'll give it a shot. I promised the provost that if I got through an entire year of running the Senate with no drama in meetings, no fighting, no screaming, no-- that I got a steak dinner. And it was pretty rough year. Lots of stuff going on with GE and things like that. And we got through it and it worked. So I'm hoping I'll get a steak before I leave. I loved it. I really loved it. I also realized that, I had a really good team in place who were like, the detail people. I'm not the detail person, so I was like, I don't have to read everything. They're gonna read it and I'll find the mistakes. And I just--my job was just to--it's just to be the master of ceremonies and keep things moving. I loved it. I thought it was the easiest year of my career. 01:30:01.015 --> 01:30:01.024 Nice. 01:30:01.024 --> 01:30:16.675 And people told me, oh, it's awful. It's miserable. And why would you do this to yourself and they, you know, they said why would you do this to, it's a miserable, thankless position. And I loved it. And the people who I thought would be difficult, I found a way to work with them. 01:30:16.675 --> 01:30:21.327 Yeah. That's good. What was the maybe the biggest accomplishment of Faculty Senate this year? 01:30:21.327 --> 01:30:31.795 Getting us organized to deal with the changes to, GE. 01:30:31.795 --> 01:30:32.835 They're gonna be big. 01:30:32.835 --> 01:31:44.375 Like, and I've been (inaudible) saying this for two years and kicked and screamed--it's going to happen. It's going to happen. I know how things are. And then, no, we could push back and I say, if we had taken the time, instead of pushing back and getting organized, things would be a lot easier. But at least I got everybody's seizures on this committee for the summer. They're meeting, I was able to hand it off, to be able to leave. I mean, and I let the provost knowing and the President('s) office knew before the announcement, at least a month before. And I was determined to not leave anything half done. So getting things sewn up or ready to be passed on, I think goes back to, I could leave the College of Business 'cause I could point to a dozen faculty members that I hired that're gonna be much better at doing it than I am now, or have been. That I didn't leave a mess for anybody. I left it how I found it, but better. 01:31:44.375 --> 01:31:45.414 That's good. 01:31:45.414 --> 01:31:56.000 And that's--people are not gonna open drawers and say, oh, he left this mess. Oh my God, what I do, he's gone. You have to plan the succession. 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:57.000 Yeah. 01:31:57.000 --> 01:31:58.795 And so there's a lot of talent around here. 01:31:58.795 --> 01:32:05.604 And you leave next week? 01:32:05.604 --> 01:32:05.614 Mm-hmm. 01:32:05.614 --> 01:32:06.283 Well, Congratulations on your new position. 01:32:06.283 --> 01:32:10.965 And may God have mercy on my soul. 01:32:10.965 --> 01:32:14.038 What are you looking forward to about it? 01:32:14.038 --> 01:32:15.131 Being in Chicago. 01:32:15.131 --> 01:32:17.036 Yeah. 01:32:17.036 --> 01:32:20.845 And walking to work. 01:32:20.845 --> 01:32:23.784 Well all right. Is there anything else that I should have asked you that I didn't? 01:32:23.784 --> 01:32:24.423 No. 01:32:24.423 --> 01:32:27.370 Alright. Well thank you Dr. Brodowsky. I appreciate it. 01:32:27.370 --> 01:32:28.255 My name is Glen. 01:32:28.255 --> 01:32:33.755 Thank you Glen. I appreciate you spending time with us today. 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Brodowsky, Glen. Interview June 14th, 2024.
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Interview discusses Brodowsky’s career at CSUSM, starting with his journey into academia and his experience during the early years of the university, the campus, his work in development of policy and initiatives, as well as marketing, including the campus logo. Interview also discusses Brodowsky’s work in service at the university, his relationship with past university presidents, intercultural and cross-cultural marketing, his approach to teaching both at CSUSM and abroad at Brodowsky’s visiting professorships, the Jewish Faculty and Staff Association and the campus Jewish community, and his past year as Faculty Senate Chair.
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California State University San Marcos
California State University San Marcos. Administrative Building
California State University San Marcos. Faculty Senate
California State University San Marcos. Jewish Faculty and Staff Association
California State University San Marcos. Marketing Department
Cross-cultural marketing
Gonzalez, Alexander
Haynes, Karen S.
Intercultural marketing
Neufeldt, Ellen
California State University San Marcos--Faculty
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Interview discusses Brodowsky’s career at CSUSM, starting with his journey into academia and his experience during the early years of the university, the campus, his work in development of policy and initiatives, as well as marketing, including the campus logo. Interview also discusses Brodowsky’s work in service at the university, his relationship with past university presidents, intercultural and cross-cultural marketing, his approach to teaching both at CSUSM and abroad at Brodowsky’s visiting professorships, the Jewish Faculty and Staff Association and the campus Jewish community, and his past year as Faculty Senate Chair.
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Brodowsky, Glen
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Visintainer, Sean
Sheehan, Robert
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2024-06-14
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California State University San Marcos
California State University San Marcos. Administrative Building
California State University San Marcos. Faculty Senate
California State University San Marcos. Jewish Faculty and Staff Association
California State University San Marcos. Marketing Department
Cross-cultural marketing
Gonzalez, Alexander
Haynes, Karen S.
Intercultural marketing
Neufeldt, Ellen
California State University San Marcos--Faculty
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San Marcos (Calif.)
Taiwan
Ecuador
Copenhagen (Denmark)
Shanghai (China)
Buffalo (N.Y.)
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CSUSM history
Jewish experience
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Julia Friedman
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Tanis Brown
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5.4 Unknown Date Oral history of Tanis Brown, April 13, 2022 SC027-20 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible with the generous funding of the Ellie Johns Scholarship Fund at Rancho Santa Fe Foundation and the Library Guild of Rancho Santa Fe. California State University San Marcos San Marcos (Calif.) -- History San Marcos Historical Society -- California -- San Marcos Tanis Brown Julia Friedman BrownTanis_FriedmanJulia_2022-04-13.mp4 1:|16(5)|27(8)|42(8)|51(1)|62(5)|70(10)|81(6)|88(14)|99(9)|108(14)|120(12)|134(9)|142(8)|153(6)|160(6)|174(3)|181(10)|188(9)|197(10)|205(9)|213(13)|224(4)|236(5)|242(6)|252(3)|261(5)|270(14)|279(5)|289(12)|300(5)|306(16)|315(2)|324(1)|329(14)|336(10)|344(4)|354(10)|366(15)|374(2)|381(3)|392(1)|404(14)|419(1)|427(2)|437(4)|445(2)|452(10)|464(2)|469(5)|476(9)|486(11)|494(8)|503(7)|512(3)|520(16)|535(1)|542(3)|548(6)|554(3)|563(15)|569(6)|573(12)|589(7)|597(2)|605(7)|614(1)|620(7)|626(5)|633(13)|643(10)|651(14)|659(15)|666(10)|674(3)|686(2) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/3b6624b33deba86cb7ceb886c3d6cec2.mp4 Other video 0 Moving to San Marcos, CA / Involvement in the San Marcos Community Julia Friedman: Today is Wednesday, April 13th, 2022, at 9:58 AM. I am Julia Friedman, a graduate student at California State University of San Marcos. And today, I am interviewing Tanis Brown for the University Library Special Collections Oral History project. Tanis, thank you for being here with me today. Tanis Brown: Oh, thank you. Hang on just a minute. I have to—all right. Friedman: Perfect. I would like to start by discussing your early days in the city of San Marcos, California. Why did you first move to San Marcos? Brown: Well, I first came to San Marcos in 1976 in the kind of summertime. We moved to San Marcos from Escondido. Friedman: And why did you move to San Marcos? Brown: Well, my husband and I had kind of outgrown our house in Escondido and we were looking—he was looking for a little more yard space so he could start to garden. And so, we were looking for a little bit larger house with a little more backyard. Friedman: And what were your first impressions of the city? Brown: Well, when we were looking at houses, I can remember my husband telling the realtor, “I'm not sure we want to live in San Marcos. It's kind of the boonies, isn't it?” And, at that time, San Marcos was certainly not the city it is today. It was a lot more rural. Many, many mobile home parks, about twelve if I remember correctly. Only four to five elementary schools and we had two children in school, so we were looking for, you know, a close-by school and again. So, taking some choices about, well, do we want a little bit bigger yard or do we want to stay in a more developed city, like Escondido? And I'm certainly glad that we opted to move to San Marcos. Friedman: That's great. Brown: Yeah. Friedman: How did you first become involved in the community of San Marcos during your first years in the city? Brown: Okay, so, right after we moved to San Marcos, I enrolled in an early childhood development course at Palomar college. I had been teaching preschool for a number of years and the first night of class, the teacher said the city of San Marcos is looking for a preschool teacher for their Raggedy Anne and Andy Program, which was very popular. It was expanding at that time. And so, I went the next day and put in an application and ended up getting a job with the city right away within the first couple of months. And so, it was a wonderful opportunity to meet people that worked for the city. Our location was where San Marcos City Hall is now, but the building was the red barn that is now located at Walnut Grove Park, that was where all the city recreation programs were hosted out of. That was the main office for our park and recreation program. So, I started working for the Raggedy Anne and Andy Program and was able to meet a lot of people that worked for the city at that time. And that was kind of our first introduction. And because we were such a small community, a couple of the city council people had their children enrolled in our ragged Anne and Andy program. So immediately, I met two or three city council people and through their children. So that's kind of our quick introduction. And I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh, I grew up in San Diego. I never ever knew anybody who's elected to anything.” And here we are, serving, the city council members’ children. So, it was a very close connection to the local government. Friedman: Have you remained within those organizations? Brown: Yes. So, in addition, I only were worked for the city for about a little bit over a year because, we lived overseas shortly after that, but when I came back, I had already been familiar with the park and recreation program. So, I applied to be a commissioner for the park and recreation program, which is an advisory commission for the city of San Marcos, overseeing the parks and recreation. And I was appointed to that and it was a perfect timing because the city was growing quite a bit and we were developing new parks. So, we went from three parks to eight parks to twelve parks, and I ended up sitting on that commission for over twenty years. So, it was really a great time to watch the city not only develop, but also plan for open space, parks, trails, that kept up with the development of additional housing. Tanis Brown describes why her family moved to San Marcos, CA and how she first became involved in the community. Advisory commission ; Education ; Parks and Recreation ; San Marcos (Calif.) 377 Experience as Member of First Graduating Class at CSUSM Friedman: That's wonderful. Oh my goodness. So, you really saw the city expand in just your first few years in San Marcos. And then shortly after, you enrolled in Cal State San Marcos [California State University San Marcos]. You were among the first class to enroll in 1989. Why did you decide to attend the university? Brown: (laughs) Well, my other--one of the other hats that I have worn for many years is the San Marcos Historical Society. And through that organization, I got to be involved with the Chamber of Commerce. We had a reciprocal agreement and I was attending a lot of Chamber events, and I was lucky enough to meet Richard Rush, who was the Dean of the North San Diego campus at that time. And he kept talking about, you know, they were going to have, well at one point, it was going to be a San Diego State satellite campus up in North County. And, you know, just a lot about that. So, I got to know him fairly well. And then, in 1989, when San Marcos was going to be the host city for the university, I thought, “Well, I better get in on the ground floor of this.” So, I applied to go take all my many, many undergraduate units and apply them towards a degree. All my kids were now in school. Perfect timing. So, I applied to go to be in the first graduating class of Cal State San Marcos. So, it was wonderful. And I can remember in my first--one of my first classes on the first day, Dick Rush came in and waved, sat and waved out the window. So it was, it was like, “Oh, this is great, this feels like home.” So, it was--it was very comfortable. Friedman: Oh, that's wonderful. Because I understand that the original campus was a storefront property while the permanent one was being built across town. Can you discuss what it was like attending CSUSM [California State University San Marcos] during those early days as a university? Brown: Yes, we called it Cal State Jerome’s [CSUSM was located near to a Jerome’s furniture store] and we were in industrial park and, there were very few classes. I remember we didn't have a full compliment of majors like we do now. And the first several years of campus life were only upper-class juniors and seniors, as well as teaching programs. So, we had only upper division classes and every semester there were only so many classes for each department. So pretty much everybody who was in one class was in all your classes together, depending on what your major was. So, we really got to know one another and there was a lot of camaraderie between the faculty, the students, the staff, because we were all about the same age. The average age of students in the first few years of Cal State San Marcos was thirty-nine years old. So, you can imagine that, we--some of us were older than our faculty members, our professors, and certainly had a lot of a local experience. But most people, it was most certainly a commuter campus. There wasn't much campus life. Friedman: What did you major in? Brown: Well, I was an English major with a minor in women's studies. Friedman: That's great. And how many students were enrolled in your cohort, or in your class? Brown: I think our first graduating class was between ninety and ninety-five, something like that. So, we all fit in Craven Circle, in three rows of chairs, just about. Friedman: I was actually expecting it to be a little smaller, but that's actually really interesting. Could you elaborate a little more on the comradery amongst your classmates? Kind of like, what was the culture like in general within your cohort? Brown: Well, like I say, most students were, you know, adults who have lots of other stuff going on. Most people were working, or parents, or involved in community activities or especially jobs. We were all [reentering]--most of us were reentry students. And so, in addition to taking classes, we had other things going on in our lives. So, it was a little bit challenging. I know when we started to try to talk about having student groups and all that. But once again, we--there was a deli in the industrial park called the Full Belly Deli. A lot of people would go there for lunch if they were able to be on campus for a whole day. Usually people came and went. It was very kind of a drive-by campus if you will, you know. People were there because there were not gathering places. So, we did try. We had powwows. Bonnie Biggs, who was the dean of the library at that time, brought in a lot of musical performances and it was really enriching and exposed us to a lot of, you know, great music. And like I say, we were involved with the Native American tribal community in the North County and so we hosted a powwow. So those were things that were also included as part of our school requirements to, you know, get involved in these international things that were going on campus. Friedman: That's great. And from what I understand, there were already some student organizations established on campus, such as ASI--? Brown: Well, no, the first year, Dr. Ernie Zomalt who's the Executive Vice President and Sandy Punch, who was doing student affairs, really helped form the first group for an election for the first Associated Students. And I had just had a conversation with Charles Ragland who is one of the former ASI presidents back in the early years. And, the first couple of years we did have the Associated Students, but it wasn't an incorporation, it was just a campus organization. We did vote and we did actually vote for some student fees. But yeah, so we did have an election and I was on the first Associated Students group and we did a lot of the heavy lifting of bylaw writing and that kind of thing, as well as trying to establish some kind of connection between students and trying to encourage them to think about imposing fees that would not necessarily impact them at all, but would impact the future of the university. Friedman: Thank you for clearing that up. Brown: Yeah. Tanis Brown recounts her experience as a student in the first graduating class at California State San Marcos when she enrolled in 1989. Tanis discusses the culture on campus, the class sizes, and the formation of the first Associated Students. California State University San Marcos ; Education ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; University ; University and community 942 Working at CSUSM Friedman: That's really interesting. And then as I understand it, you later became an employee a few years after graduating at CSUSM. Can you explain those roles that that you worked at CSUSM? Brown: Sure. So, after I graduated, I went to work for a social service agency in Vista Lifeline Community Services. And I was a grant writer there for about a year and a half. In the meantime, the campus had grown and were about to launch a (laughs) full four-year student body. And so, all of a sudden housing was needed. And because of my relationship with, you know, kind of the community, I had a lot of access to, you know, where to rent an apartment or this and that. I knew a lot of community members, my, you know, just community contacts. And so, I applied for a job with the university to be a Special Projects Coordinator in the Vice President's office. So, I went back and worked part-time, doing special projects. And then that job got extended to fifty percent of also housing and trying to not only help faculty members find housing, but also to help students find housing. And then actually starting the first housing program at Cal State San Marcos. So that was that became a bigger and bigger job (laughs) because we didn't have a facility. So, we had to go out and find housing. We had to find suitable housing for a group of students so that we could, you know, kind of cluster them together and create opportunities that would be quasi student life. And it was, it was a very interesting endeavor. (laughs) Friedman: It's important though. From what I understand, you also were involved in HR for many years and in the Retirees Association. Could you explain a little bit about your roles in those departments as well? Brown: Sure. So, I moved over to Human Resources as the Training Coordinator and my job was to provide training opportunities for staff and also develop a new employee orientation. So, I had the really fun job in Human Resources. I was kind of known as the “cheerleader” because in addition to training opportunities, one of the things that I really enjoyed doing was at the end of every year, we would do an employee recognition. This was before they had employee the month or anything like that. So once a year we would have an event that would recognize employees for their years of service. And just to, you know, just to thank employees for being on campus. In the early years, people moved around a lot just because of the growing campus. And so, there was a lot of expectation that don't get too used to the office that you're sitting in because six months now you may be moving to another office down the hallway. So, it was just a way to recognize, and I think the, you know, all the managers and leadership at the university really recognized how so many of the employees got called on to do things that they never expected to do when they were hired, just because we were a new campus and something new would come up and we just have to do it. And, we were very limited in staff. We didn't have three or four people in an office, but it was great. People enjoyed one another. And I have wonderful friends that I made at Cal State San Marcos, and it's carried over to the Retirees Association as well. So, and the other thing I loved about my job with orientation is that I got to meet everybody that was a new employee at the campus. So, I was kind of the face of HR, I believe, for many years, in terms of, you know, within their first couple of weeks of work, they were going to spend a day with me and I was going to kind of show the ropes of Cal State San Marcos. Later on, a lot of my job required a lot of compliance training as well, sexual harassment, and a lot of things like that in addition to the kind of enrichment training. Friedman: Well, thank you. So much of what you did as a student and as an employee at CSUSM seemed to involve community on campus. How did you see the CSUSM community develop over time? Brown: Are you talking about the campus community? Friedman: Oh, yes. Sorry. Yes. Brown: Okay. Well, I visited campus yesterday and we walked through the dome and in the olden days, the dome was the only really gathering place on campus. So, if you worked in Craven Hall you had to walk through the dome from the parking lot and so you pass through it, it was the place that you could eat your lunch. And usually you'd always see somebody you knew in the dome. So, there were those opportunities to make friends. And some of the employees at actually were also taking classes while they were working at Cal State San Marcos. So, it was an opportunity for just meeting and getting to know one another. But, you know, I still get that same feel just when I've been on campus other times that, people are anxious to help, they are anxious to reach out. And even the President was pretty accessible when I was there. You know, Dr. Haynes was primarily the longest serving President when I was at Cal State San Marcos and she'd be out and about on campus. And, it was, it was really great to see, you know, to know that the President was walking around, seeing what was going on as well. So, and I still get that feeling that there's a lot of opportunity for meeting and greeting it at the university. Tanis Brown discusses working as an employee at CSUSM. She describes her work as the Special Projects Coordinator in the Vice President’s office where she aided students and faculty in finding housing near the campus area. She later worked in Human Resources as the Training Coordinator. California State University San Marcos ; Education ; Housing projects ; Human resources ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; University ; University and community 1479 Involvement in the San Marcos Historical Society (SMHS) / SMHS Archives Friedman: That's wonderful. I would like to jump ahead now, or I suppose, change topics. You had mentioned that when you were a student at Cal State San Marcos, you were already involved in the San Marcos Historical Society. When did you first become involved in the organization? Brown: Well, as I mentioned early on, we moved to San Marcos and within the first eighteen months, my husband had an opportunity to go overseas and teach at a military facility. So, we moved to Germany. We rented out our house and bundled up our family and moved to Germany for two years. And while I was there, I was not working. And so, I just fell in love with history. And there, you know, Europe is a little bit older than Southern California (laughs), and I just really latched onto history. And within about a month of us coming back and getting resettled into our house, I was walking in the neighborhood and realized that we had a historical house at the top of a hill, not far from where I live and it was being vandalized. So, I contacted the city and I said, “Somebody needs to do something about this, because we don't have very many historical houses in San Marcos.” What's, you know, who owns it and trying to get to the bottom of that. Anyway, the city manager at the time recommended that I contact the Historical Society and they could tell me a little bit more the house, but in the meantime, they were going to check it out and they did follow up and say, “Oh, the house has just been purchased and they are planning to renovate it.” So, that was a good opportunity for something good to happen. But I did visit the Historical Society shortly after that and was privileged to meet several families of, you know, descendants of the pioneer families that lived here in San Marcos. So, I don't know all the old timers but kind of the second generation of old timers. And I just was amazed at the, you know, what a small town San Marcos had, but what a rich history it had, which I'm still marveling at that every day. So, yes. So, they kind of adopted me. I was quite a bit younger than anybody who was serving at the Historical Society at that time and just had an opportunity to meet some wonderful people who could tell me great stories about the history of San Marcos. And so, I got involved there and just continued to stay involved for a number of years, and then took a hiatus when I went back to school. And so then jump forward twenty years after I retired and my husband and I traveled for a few years and then came back and the Historical Society was going to be relocating their museum. And that's the time I kind of stepped up and said, “Sure, I can help.” And, so that was in 2009 and I'm still there. (Brown and Friedman laugh) Friedman: Is that when you became President or were you [unintelligible]? Brown: Yeah, I have been the President for a very long time. But yes, but we have a really wonderful group of not so many of the pioneer families are left here in San Marcos. But we do have a steadfast group of volunteers that help out. We established a hands-on history program and we've had a lot of Cal State San Marcos students. Want to find out about that. That are going into the teaching program. And we've also had a few internships and I've been able to connect with the, uh, we are a community partner through the community service learning program at Cal State San Marcos. Friedman: What has been your goal as present of the historical society? Brown: Oh my gosh. Well, moving forward, thinking about where we need to be in the future is first and foremost, we have two historical houses that will always need a lot of tender love and care and upkeep because they were built at the end of the nineteenth century, so they're quite old. So establishing an endowment fund for the houses to keep them and other historical houses in perpetuity or as long as they can stand. We also have--my immediate project is a fire engine that I'm trying to get fixed up so we can add it to our hands-on history program. And then, of course, the wonderful thing that we have is the documentation of our history and our archives. And I am blessed to be able to work with Sean [Visintainer] and Jennifer Ho on establishing a really good archival program for our records in the hope that they would be worthy of someone's collection at some point if anything should happen to the Historical Society. So, just kind of laying the foundation for the future, kind of the “what ifs” and “what would happen if” and “how might we continue to preserve these things.” Friedman: That's wonderful. That's very smart. You always need to be thinking forward for your archive collection. Going to your archive, do you have any gems in the archive that you would like to talk about or share? Brown: We have a couple things that are pretty special. So, in the early years of first establishing San Marcos, there were three distinct communities. There was the Twin Oaks area out on the Northeastern side of San Marcos. There was the area known as Richland, which is kind of the center of town and where Cal State San Marcos is. And then on the West end, there was a community known as Barham township. And Barham township today is kind of right on the border of San Marcos and Encinitas. And there was a gentleman named William Webster Borden, and William Webster Borden was the postmaster. He wrote the first newspaper that we have documented called The Plain Truth. And it was postmarked from Barham, California. Anyway, his great-great-grandson delivered to us William Webster Borden’s type desk, which is a tall chest that contains all the little letters to make a newspaper, the individual letters. And so, we are pleased to have William Webster Borden’s type desk. Another thing that we have inherited from that area, there used to be Meadowlark Ranch that was off Rancho Santa Fe Road. And we have the corral gate from Meadowlark Ranch that was taken down in the 1950s. And it is barely standing, but we have figured it up on our backyard so people can have a chance to see that. And then we have an old schoolhouse bell from the 1910 schoolhouse. And that was given to us by William Carroll, who was quite a character. He ran the Outlook Newspaper. He bought the 1910 schoolhouse in the [19]60s and restored it as his newspaper office. He relocated it on Grand Avenue and it's still standing. But he left town in the nineties and moved to New Mexico and then Arcata, California. And once he got settled up there, he contacted us and said, “I'm going to give you the bell, but you have to come and get it.” So, it's a pretty far drive up there. And the thing weighs over two hundred and fifty pounds. So luckily, we were able to find someone who was making the trip down that would deliver it to us. So, we have the original bell from the 1910 schoolhouse in our museum. Friedman: That's wonderful. Brown: Yeah. One last thing is our museum and building itself is pretty special in that it was built in 1939 by a grant for three thousand two hundred dollars, but it was built by the WPA, which is the Works Progress Administration under Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. And so that was kind of the tail end of the WPA projects. And so, we provided the money for the supplies, but the government would actually supply the workers and pay the workers to complete the work. So, our museum today is one of those projects from the WPA back in 1939. Friedman: That's a great story. Brown: Yeah. Friedman: Wow. You mentioned how are a volunteer-run organization. How do you think the community of your organization and San Marcos in general have contributed to the preservation of the history of San Marcos? Brown: Hmm. Well. I guess one of the things that I'm thinking about in addition to the legacy that we leave is that the pandemic has helped me understand that sometimes you can't wait for people to come to you because we were closed so much of the time during the pandemic that a lot of our programs, a lot of our volunteers, you know, we didn't have them anymore. So, recently, I was on a trip up in Washington state and walking along some of the trails up there are these beautiful displays that show a picture of--you're looking at a building across the lake, but you're seeing a photo of what it was like in 1920 or something like that. And it’s called--the little caption underneath is called Trail Tales. And so, it occurred to me that we really do need to take history out to the public. And, not just on special occasions, when I go out to do a presentation or somebody calls the Historical Society. But just for anybody who's maybe going out for a walk. So, that is one of the things that I'd like to see us do as a city and just community activity is to identify some of these areas that have changed so much over the years and have a then-and-now photo, or a description of what they're looking at, what it used to look like back in the 1920s or in 1890s. So that we just don't get used to thinking that this is the way it's always been, and this is the way it'll always be that there was something before that--what you're seeing today. Friedman: How would you like to, I guess, bring awareness to kind of that issue? Brown: Well, I guess one of the things that we have to do is as, you know, try to work with maybe developers of new projects and have them incorporate some of these Trail Tales or historical icons, so that you can, actually, from the ground level, add that to the aesthetic of whatever's being built today. I mean, maybe we could start at Cal State University and have a photo of the Prohoroff Poultry Farm, (laughs) I don't know, but, there are endless possibilities here in San Marcos. And I was just thinking-- there's a new Costco along San Marcos Boulevard and that--where those buildings were airports here in San Marcos, which I'm sure not too many people know about that we had two airports here in San Marcos. So, Julia, you pose a good question. It always requires a little leg work talking just to the right people and getting people excited about things. Friedman: I would like to see that happen someday. I—(laughs) Brown: Maybe we can work together. (laughs) Friedman: Ooh, I like that. I guess see that as a project, as an exhibit. I could see that as many things. I'm excited. I hope to see that someday. (laughs) Brown: I would love that. Friedman: How have you seen your organization grow over the years? Brown: The Historical Society? Friedman: Yeah. Brown: Historical societies, or at least ours, has not grown. It has dwindled. I think a lot of—and hopefully that is not the--or it's changed, I guess. I think there are less and less, not opportunities, but there are less and less people that get actively involved in volunteerism as much as I remember growing up. Or at least back in the [19]80s, because most people would retire, you know, between fifty-eight, sixty-five [years old], and then they would dedicate a few years to a civic organization. In talking with other historical societies in North County, groups like Kiwanis [Kiwanis International] and Rotary [San Diego Rotary], I've noticed a kind of a steady decline in those memberships. And I don't think it's because people aren't equally as busy now as they used to be, but their time is spent differently than it maybe had been in the past. And I don't know. I think my generation of people, or maybe it's just me, I tend to be a joiner. I like doing stuff with other people because I think more gets accomplished. But that's a good question. Something, I think about a lot in terms of, you know, again, what happens if our volunteers, you know, we don't have as many people that are as interested in our future or our history and moving it forward. So, my big hope is kids as all, as we like to make sure that they think history is something important and to be cherished. Tanis Brown explains how she first became involved in the San Marcos Historical Society. As President of the organization, Tanis describes her goals moving forward for the SMHS, as well as significant items located in the SMHS archives. Education ; History ; Local history ; Nonprofit organizations ; San Marcos (Calif.) ; Volunteers 2676 The Importance of Funding and Education Friedman: How do you like to reach out to school groups? Do you have like a school program? Do you have special exhibits for that? Brown: We have, prior to COVID, we had a pretty flourishing hands-on history program for elementary students and for the primary students, they would come out to Heritage Park and participate in kind of a round robin of activities. We'd have five different activities that they would participate in. They would learn about the Native American community that lived here in San Marcos. They would take a tour of two historical houses. They would learn a craft of what kids did one hundred and twenty years ago. What kind of crafts did they do? What kind of things did they have to work with? “Did they have markers? No.” (laughs) So we do a little activity like that. We do games that kids played with pine cones and old equipment and things like that that are kind of made-up games. And then we do chores. So, they do outdoor laundry in the tub. They wash the clothes, they plant in the garden and they make biscuits and butter from scratch. So, and then at the end of the session, we get to taste the butter that we have made. So it's really about, “What was life like in San Marcos back in 1890?” And so, kids get a chance to kind of see--we partner with the Vallecitos Water District, who's very gracious to help bust the students out to Heritage Park. And then they also do a little session on water conservation. And it blends right into our concept of, you know, how did people wash their clothes and wash their dishes and where did they go to the bathroom and take a bath when there were no inside restrooms? So, it's kind of an ecology lesson as well as a sustainability lesson, but also a history lesson as well. Friedman: Those sound really exciting. My next question I realize can pertain both to, I guess, lack of volunteers and also children's education. I didn't realize it pertained to what we just spoke about previously, but what would you like future historians to understand about lack of funding in both education and the nonprofit sphere? Brown: Well, I guess, you know, my family, both my husband and my fathers were both elementary school principals. So we’ve been in involved with public schools our whole lives, and supportive of what public schools do and taking advantage of just amazing teachers and, you know, people who give so much to help our kids learn. And I just think that, in today's world, the things that we celebrate and invest in, while they are important, to know about, I just wish as much money could be invested into education. And I'm not just talking about K-12, I'm talking about higher education and as well. I'm a strong believer in lifelong learning and, you know, education, libraries, civic organizations are really the things that provide a huge quality of life in our community. And, you know, it, pains me a little that so much money goes into sports, and I'm not against sports, or other things that people are high ticket items, that don't end up with a lot of bang for your buck. And I just think, that it's something that we all share and we can always make better. I know there's been a lot of, you know, down talking schools as a result of the last couple of years, and I just, feel bad that teachers kind of take a brunt of stuff and just trying to do the best I can every day. Friedman: Why do you think lack of funding could be so detrimental to the preservation and understanding of history? Brown: Well, I think, I mean, history tells a lot about where we go, and where we've been. And there are, I believe, cycles that come around. But I do think, you know, again, one of the things that excites me is that I get a lot of newsletters from schools and organizations just like Cal State San Marcos. I get the update of all the cool things that are going on on the campus on a weekly basis. And I compare that with the, you know, what's on the news every night, which is kind of depressing. And I'm thinking, “Why aren't we covering all these amazing things that are going on in the local schools?” And not just Cal State San Marcos or in our local schools, but a citywide and regionwide. I mean, students are just doing some amazing things but when there's not a lot of money to support those kinds of things, it does really affect, especially, those who are not--don't have the life experience to know that you can go to a free museum, or, you know, there are free things. And I do think that educational opportunities through schools provide a lot of awareness about ways to do things that don't cost a lot of money or that are enrichment activities through the classrooms. So, and it takes money to pay for that stuff. Friedman: Yeah. That's well said. What do you think these nonprofits need to do in order to survive during these difficult times? Brown: Stick together, I guess. (laughs) Well, you know what, you do what you can do. And, you know, I'm an advocate. I don't like to, you know, diss people for what they're not doing, but really, try to appreciate people for what they do do. And, you know, make the most of it. I think April is Volunteer Month and, you know, volunteering isn't going to happen if people go and they're not enjoying it, or they're not getting some kind of reward out of it. And I think that's, you know, we need to always kind of invest in our volunteers in terms of making sure that they are able to engage in the things they like to do when they come out and volunteer. But, the Historical Society--our members--we participate in a bigger group called CINCH [Council for the Interpretation of North County History], which is all the North County historical societies. We gather four times a year just to share ideas and, you know, tips and what they're doing. And you never know when you're going to get a really good idea from somebody that turns out to be lucrative. And then I'm always looking for partnerships. I'm always looking to work with our agencies, our city. We're so lucky to be able to be in our city park. So we have people that come out to the park and walk by and try to talk to people that come by, invite them in. So yeah, I mean, that's my approach and I guess have grant writers that will help find the money and put it in our hands. (laughs) Tanis Brown discusses the SMHS’s support of education, especially in collaborating with local schools and creating museum tours for school groups. Tanis also explains why the lack of funding in both the educational and nonprofit spheres is detrimental to the understanding of history. Education ; Funding ; History ; Local history ; Nonprofit organizations ; San Marcos (Calif.) 3321 San Marcos History Friedman: That's always important. I would like to jump back a bit to San Marco Marcos’ history. Brown: Okay. Friedman: From your experience working at the San Marcos Historical Society, who do you believe are some significant historical individuals in San Marcos history, such as prominent individuals or famous families? Brown: Okay. Well, the original home--well, first of all, the Twin Oaks area is primarily--was one of the settlement areas for the Luiseño tribe. And, well, I don't have access to direct descendants of those--the mission band of Luiseño Indians are really the kind of the original homesteaders there in the Twin Oaks Valley. So, I think that we should always recognize that, you know, somebody was here before the first covered wagons came or anything like that. And then our Rancho period was very short in San Marcos. So, the first, like homesteader families that are still European homesteader families are the Merriam family. And there are a few of them still living and in this area. The Uhlands have a huge connection, not only to Heritage Park, but the whole Twin Oaks Valley area. And there are still Uhlands family members in town. The Fultons, and a lot of these, like the Fultons, the Bordens, the Barhams--those are all San Marcos street names. So, you don't have to go too far to recognize that those families have had their own streets named after them. But we recently lost the original homestead of a Fulton family, which is very sad. They had a homestead at in San Marcos in 1893, and the last family member that had lived on the homestead, moved to Nebraska last fall. So, from 1893 to 2021, was inhabited by one family. And then also out here in Twin Oaks the Astleford family were only one of two families that owned property here in Twin Oaks Valley. I mentioned William Webster Borden, the Barhams. In the Richland area, there was another Borden, Reynold Bascom Borden his house is still standing in the Richland area. So, we have, you know, again, a number of families. Friedman: That's really interesting. Are there also any individuals from San Marcos history that not as well known that we should know about such as individuals from marginalized communities? Brown: Well, actually, this is kind of interesting. Several years ago we took a world map and tried to chart all the places that, you know, people that had moved to San Marcos, where they had come from. And, while, one of the things that we realized is that we had had a very large community of Serbian and Yugoslavian families that moved to San Marcos. The Prohoroffs were originally from Russia. They moved to Mexico and then migrated up through Mexico to Southern California. We do have, we have Meadowlark Cemetery that is off Rancho Santa Fe Road. It was a pioneer cemetery over on the West end of San Marcos. And there are several homesteaders there that, you know, were there prior, between the 1850s, 1870. I'm trying to think of other--of course, you know, I look at photos of early San Marcos. We had Japanese, we had a lot of Japanese farmers that had to leave during World War II. We have a lot of Hispanic families that have come and gone through San Marcos. And usually, we will meet those people that will come to the museum that, you know, their grandparents worked at Prohoroff Ranch or in the, one of the farms here in San Marcos. But they don't live here anymore. And so, we don't have the longevity of their history. But I'm always anxious to, you know, find out some of those kind of stories that, have lived on. Friedman: That's really interesting. Thank you. Brown: Julia. I need to get a drink. Friedman: Oh, sure. Brown: Can we stop for a minute? Friedman: Yeah, absolutely. So interview with Tanis Brown paused at 11:01. Interview with Tanis Brown resumed at 11:02. If you were to interview someone from San Marcos for an oral history interview, who would be, and why? Brown: Well, we have captured a lot of, kind of the old timey history in San Marcos from the 1800s, 1900s. But I am interested in working with people that maybe are in their sixties that have gone through the entire San Marcos school district, or actually moved here as young children and watched San Marcos grow. As an adult, I’m pretty aware of that, you know, kind of the development of the city. But it would be interesting to get a sense of a student’s perspective as they have grown. And now are adults and their take on San Marco’s history, kind of the next gen[eration] of history for the future. I mean, we have a lot of, you know, kind of more recently women in politics. And I would like to interview Pia Harris [San Marcos' first female council member], Rebecca Jones [San Marcos Mayor at time of recording], and also some of our city employees who have just an amazing background of knowledge of how things came to be. Friedman: I like that. Those are really interesting people to interview. How have you seen the city of San Marcos develop over the last forty years? Brown: (laughs) Well, when my kids first walked to school in San Marcos in 1976, Woodland Park was an elementary school. It's now a middle school. And it was built in the seventies when there was really very little money for new schools. But it was an open school. So, there were no dividers. And the only dividers in the school were short bookcases. And when we walked down to meet the principal before school started, he was standing on a ladder in the very center of the building, looking around at all the--where the classrooms would be. And, we just kind of thought, “Oh my gosh.” It was very interesting, but on the way, walking to school, our children had--we had to skirt a pasture to get to school. We don't see that so much anymore. So those were kind of our first, you know, memories of moving to San Marcos and, really being in a rural community that neither my husband or I had ever felt so close to a rural atmosphere. To, you know, watching the university get built to watching buildings get moved and relocated for the city hall complex. For--certainly traffic is very different. There were no traffic signals in San Marcos until 1974. There was one four-way stop at Mission Empico Road when I was going to Palomar College. So that four-way stop on the first day school could get really crazy. But the thing that I feel kind of most proud about is that we really established, many years ago, that San Marcos would keep a quality of life through parks, open spaces, and trails, so that if you wanted to ride a bicycle from one end of town to the other, or to visit a park, there would be one in your neighborhood and you would have a connection to that. So that part of the growth of San Marcos, I think, is going to pay off in the long run as we continue to develop new neighborhoods like North City and still keeping a quality of life, as well as accommodating people who want to live here. And that doesn't mean just a certain, you know, type of person. We need to keep are community a blended community. So young people, old people, any stripe of person can move to San Marcos, find a home, and a connection. And I think between city, and the organizations, and the resources that we have is that we want to be a welcoming place for anybody who comes to San Marcos. Yeah. Friedman: Thank you. What to you makes San Marcos and San Marcos history so fascinating to study? Brown: Well, I just like the idea that you can, you know, you can create things. I think people come to different communities. Something usually draws them to an area. Like even as back as the first tribal communities, they found what was going to meet their needs: water, flat land, access to food, and shelter. And, I think people are still doing that. They're looking for something that meets their needs. And so I think as we move forward that it's our responsibility to make sure that we provide opportunities for people that come here. I'm not sure I answered that question very well. Friedman: No you did, thank you. And what do you think is so important or what is important about understanding local history? Brown: Okay. Well, I think, I mean, history's human. I mean, you know, a lot of people say, and we always have to second guess ourselves, because the minute you put something down on paper and then somebody--and it's written and somebody'll say, “Well, that isn’t the way I remember it.” So, there's so much humanity in history and it's how we, you know, how we look at it and maybe our opinion of that history changes. But it is. And there isn't just one history, you know. We all make our own history. And so, but I do think--I love the opportunity that we have, at least that I have, and that we're willing to share about information that people felt was important enough to document back in the 1880s or [18]90s, and may have some relevance for us today. We recently were going through the Fulton papers, which we’re archiving, and we found a reference in a letter about the 1916 flood that was here in San Marcos, which we have a photo of in our museum. And that same letter also referenced the pandemic in 1918. So, to me, and it's like, “Oh my gosh,” because we didn't, well, we weren't necessarily looking for it, as it related to San Marcos, but when we saw it, it was like, “Oh my gosh,” it talked about this lady who was willing to go over and help her neighbors out who had the Spanish Flu. And so here it was right here in San Marcos. And I don't know, that just to me create some kind of bond between people from 1918 that were right here in the same neighborhood or in the same place that we were, or we are now. And, so I don't know. That's just so exciting to me that a hundred years ago they were experiencing kind of the same thing and not exactly knowing how to deal with it. So, not that much has changed in spite of all the cars, in spite of all the buildings, not that much has changed. We're still people. And that's what I think history is really about people's stories. Tanis Brown discusses prominent historical figures and families from San Marcos history, including the Barhams, Fultons, and Bordens. Tanis also explains the importance of studying and understanding local history. 19th century ; 20th century ; Education ; History ; Local history ; Local politics ; Nonprofit organizations ; San Marcos (Calif.) 4470 Closing of Interview Friedman: Well, thank you so much, Tanis. Is there anything else I should have asked or anything else you'd like to share today? Brown: Well, I would just like to say that, whoever is viewing this video is welcome to come out and visit Heritage Park in Walnut Grove Park. And, we welcome and would love to share history with you. Friedman: Very well said. Well, thank you. It was a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for being part of this project. Brown: Well, I'm really happy to--I wasn't expecting to do that. I was expecting to share other people's names, but I'm happy to have shared my history with you. Friedman: Thank you. We're so happy that you are a part of this project and we're so happy to have your story become a part of our collection. Brown: Great. Me too. Friedman: Well, thank you. Brown: Okay. So is that, is that it. Tanis Brown closes interview by welcoming viewers to share their history with the SMHS. Education ; History ; Local history ; Nonprofit organizations ; San Marcos (Calif.) Tanis Brown is the President of the San Marcos Historical Society and is involved in many local history projects and educational outreach initiatives. In this interview, Tanis discusses her involvement in the city of San Marcos, CA since the 1970s. Tanis quickly became active in the San Marcos Chamber of Commerce and was among the first group of students to enroll in California State University San Marcos. A few years later, she became an employee of CSUSM, establishing the university’s first housing program and working in human resources. Now as President of the San Marcos Historical Society, Tanis is passionate about sharing San Marcos’ local history with her community and with future generations. Julia Friedman: Today is Wednesday, April 13th, 2022, at 9:58 AM. I am Julia Friedman, a graduate student at California State University of San Marcos. And today, I am interviewing Tanis Brown for the University Library Special Collections Oral History project. Tanis, thank you for being here with me today. Tanis Brown: Oh, thank you. Hang on just a minute. I have to--all right. Friedman: Perfect. I would like to start by discussing your early days in the city of San Marcos, California. Why did you first move to San Marcos? Brown: Well, I first came to San Marcos in 1976 in the kind of summertime. We moved to San Marcos from Escondido. Friedman: And why did you move to San Marcos? Brown: Well, my husband and I had kind of outgrown our house in Escondido and we were looking--he was looking for a little more yard space so he could start to garden. And so, we were looking for a little bit larger house with a little more backyard. Friedman: And what were your first impressions of the city? Brown: Well, when we were looking at houses, I can remember my husband telling the realtor, " ; I' ; m not sure we want to live in San Marcos. It' ; s kind of the boonies, isn' ; t it?" ; And, at that time, San Marcos was certainly not the city it is today. It was a lot more rural. Many, many mobile home parks, about twelve if I remember correctly. Only four to five elementary schools and we had two children in school, so we were looking for, you know, a close-by school and again. So, taking some choices about, well, do we want a little bit bigger yard or do we want to stay in a more developed city, like Escondido? And I' ; m certainly glad that we opted to move to San Marcos. Friedman: That' ; s great. Brown: Yeah. Friedman: How did you first become involved in the community of San Marcos during your first years in the city? Brown: Okay, so, right after we moved to San Marcos, I enrolled in an early childhood development course at Palomar college. I had been teaching preschool for a number of years and the first night of class, the teacher said the city of San Marcos is looking for a preschool teacher for their Raggedy Anne and Andy Program, which was very popular. It was expanding at that time. And so, I went the next day and put in an application and ended up getting a job with the city right away within the first couple of months. And so, it was a wonderful opportunity to meet people that worked for the city. Our location was where San Marcos City Hall is now, but the building was the red barn that is now located at Walnut Grove Park, that was where all the city recreation programs were hosted out of. That was the main office for our park and recreation program. So, I started working for the Raggedy Anne and Andy Program and was able to meet a lot of people that worked for the city at that time. And that was kind of our first introduction. And because we were such a small community, a couple of the city council people had their children enrolled in our ragged Anne and Andy program. So immediately, I met two or three city council people and through their children. So that' ; s kind of our quick introduction. And I remember thinking, " ; Oh my gosh, I grew up in San Diego. I never ever knew anybody who' ; s elected to anything." ; And here we are, serving, the city council members' ; children. So, it was a very close connection to the local government. Friedman: Have you remained within those organizations? Brown: Yes. So, in addition, I only were worked for the city for about a little bit over a year because, we lived overseas shortly after that, but when I came back, I had already been familiar with the park and recreation program. So, I applied to be a commissioner for the park and recreation program, which is an advisory commission for the city of San Marcos, overseeing the parks and recreation. And I was appointed to that and it was a perfect timing because the city was growing quite a bit and we were developing new parks. So, we went from three parks to eight parks to twelve parks, and I ended up sitting on that commission for over twenty years. So, it was really a great time to watch the city not only develop, but also plan for open space, parks, trails, that kept up with the development of additional housing. Friedman: That' ; s wonderful. Oh my goodness. So, you really saw the city expand in just your first few years in San Marcos. And then shortly after, you enrolled in Cal State San Marcos [California State University San Marcos]. You were among the first class to enroll in 1989. Why did you decide to attend the university? Brown: (laughs) Well, my other--one of the other hats that I have worn for many years is the San Marcos Historical Society. And through that organization, I got to be involved with the Chamber of Commerce. We had a reciprocal agreement and I was attending a lot of Chamber events, and I was lucky enough to meet Richard Rush, who was the Dean of the North San Diego campus at that time. And he kept talking about, you know, they were going to have, well at one point, it was going to be a San Diego State satellite campus up in North County. And, you know, just a lot about that. So, I got to know him fairly well. And then, in 1989, when San Marcos was going to be the host city for the university, I thought, " ; Well, I better get in on the ground floor of this." ; So, I applied to go take all my many, many undergraduate units and apply them towards a degree. All my kids were now in school. Perfect timing. So, I applied to go to be in the first graduating class of Cal State San Marcos. So, it was wonderful. And I can remember in my first--one of my first classes on the first day, Dick Rush came in and waved, sat and waved out the window. So it was, it was like, " ; Oh, this is great, this feels like home." ; So, it was--it was very comfortable. Friedman: Oh, that' ; s wonderful. Because I understand that the original campus was a storefront property while the permanent one was being built across town. Can you discuss what it was like attending CSUSM [California State University San Marcos] during those early days as a university? Brown: Yes, we called it Cal State Jerome' ; s [CSUSM was located near to a Jerome' ; s furniture store] and we were in industrial park and, there were very few classes. I remember we didn' ; t have a full compliment of majors like we do now. And the first several years of campus life were only upper-class juniors and seniors, as well as teaching programs. So, we had only upper division classes and every semester there were only so many classes for each department. So pretty much everybody who was in one class was in all your classes together, depending on what your major was. So, we really got to know one another and there was a lot of camaraderie between the faculty, the students, the staff, because we were all about the same age. The average age of students in the first few years of Cal State San Marcos was thirty-nine years old. So, you can imagine that, we--some of us were older than our faculty members, our professors, and certainly had a lot of a local experience. But most people, it was most certainly a commuter campus. There wasn' ; t much campus life. Friedman: What did you major in? Brown: Well, I was an English major with a minor in women' ; s studies. Friedman: That' ; s great. And how many students were enrolled in your cohort, or in your class? Brown: I think our first graduating class was between ninety and ninety-five, something like that. So, we all fit in Craven Circle, in three rows of chairs, just about. Friedman: I was actually expecting it to be a little smaller, but that' ; s actually really interesting. Could you elaborate a little more on the comradery amongst your classmates? Kind of like, what was the culture like in general within your cohort? Brown: Well, like I say, most students were, you know, adults who have lots of other stuff going on. Most people were working, or parents, or involved in community activities or especially jobs. We were all [reentering]--most of us were reentry students. And so, in addition to taking classes, we had other things going on in our lives. So, it was a little bit challenging. I know when we started to try to talk about having student groups and all that. But once again, we--there was a deli in the industrial park called the Full Belly Deli. A lot of people would go there for lunch if they were able to be on campus for a whole day. Usually people came and went. It was very kind of a drive-by campus if you will, you know. People were there because there were not gathering places. So, we did try. We had powwows. Bonnie Biggs, who was the dean of the library at that time, brought in a lot of musical performances and it was really enriching and exposed us to a lot of, you know, great music. And like I say, we were involved with the Native American tribal community in the North County and so we hosted a powwow. So those were things that were also included as part of our school requirements to, you know, get involved in these international things that were going on campus. Friedman: That' ; s great. And from what I understand, there were already some student organizations established on campus, such as ASI--? Brown: Well, no, the first year, Dr. Ernie Zomalt who' ; s the Executive Vice President and Sandy Punch, who was doing student affairs, really helped form the first group for an election for the first Associated Students. And I had just had a conversation with Charles Ragland who is one of the former ASI presidents back in the early years. And, the first couple of years we did have the Associated Students, but it wasn' ; t an incorporation, it was just a campus organization. We did vote and we did actually vote for some student fees. But yeah, so we did have an election and I was on the first Associated Students group and we did a lot of the heavy lifting of bylaw writing and that kind of thing, as well as trying to establish some kind of connection between students and trying to encourage them to think about imposing fees that would not necessarily impact them at all, but would impact the future of the university. Friedman: Thank you for clearing that up. Brown: Yeah. Friedman: That' ; s really interesting. And then as I understand it, you later became an employee a few years after graduating at CSUSM. Can you explain those roles that that you worked at CSUSM? Brown: Sure. So, after I graduated, I went to work for a social service agency in Vista Lifeline Community Services. And I was a grant writer there for about a year and a half. In the meantime, the campus had grown and were about to launch a (laughs) full four-year student body. And so, all of a sudden housing was needed. And because of my relationship with, you know, kind of the community, I had a lot of access to, you know, where to rent an apartment or this and that. I knew a lot of community members, my, you know, just community contacts. And so, I applied for a job with the university to be a Special Projects Coordinator in the Vice President' ; s office. So, I went back and worked part-time, doing special projects. And then that job got extended to fifty percent of also housing and trying to not only help faculty members find housing, but also to help students find housing. And then actually starting the first housing program at Cal State San Marcos. So that was that became a bigger and bigger job (laughs) because we didn' ; t have a facility. So, we had to go out and find housing. We had to find suitable housing for a group of students so that we could, you know, kind of cluster them together and create opportunities that would be quasi student life. And it was, it was a very interesting endeavor. (laughs) Friedman: It' ; s important though. From what I understand, you also were involved in HR for many years and in the Retirees Association. Could you explain a little bit about your roles in those departments as well? Brown: Sure. So, I moved over to Human Resources as the Training Coordinator and my job was to provide training opportunities for staff and also develop a new employee orientation. So, I had the really fun job in Human Resources. I was kind of known as the " ; cheerleader" ; because in addition to training opportunities, one of the things that I really enjoyed doing was at the end of every year, we would do an employee recognition. This was before they had employee the month or anything like that. So once a year we would have an event that would recognize employees for their years of service. And just to, you know, just to thank employees for being on campus. In the early years, people moved around a lot just because of the growing campus. And so, there was a lot of expectation that don' ; t get too used to the office that you' ; re sitting in because six months now you may be moving to another office down the hallway. So, it was just a way to recognize, and I think the, you know, all the managers and leadership at the university really recognized how so many of the employees got called on to do things that they never expected to do when they were hired, just because we were a new campus and something new would come up and we just have to do it. And, we were very limited in staff. We didn' ; t have three or four people in an office, but it was great. People enjoyed one another. And I have wonderful friends that I made at Cal State San Marcos, and it' ; s carried over to the Retirees Association as well. So, and the other thing I loved about my job with orientation is that I got to meet everybody that was a new employee at the campus. So, I was kind of the face of HR, I believe, for many years, in terms of, you know, within their first couple of weeks of work, they were going to spend a day with me and I was going to kind of show the ropes of Cal State San Marcos. Later on, a lot of my job required a lot of compliance training as well, sexual harassment, and a lot of things like that in addition to the kind of enrichment training. Friedman: Well, thank you. So much of what you did as a student and as an employee at CSUSM seemed to involve community on campus. How did you see the CSUSM community develop over time? Brown: Are you talking about the campus community? Friedman: Oh, yes. Sorry. Yes. Brown: Okay. Well, I visited campus yesterday and we walked through the dome and in the olden days, the dome was the only really gathering place on campus. So, if you worked in Craven Hall you had to walk through the dome from the parking lot and so you pass through it, it was the place that you could eat your lunch. And usually you' ; d always see somebody you knew in the dome. So, there were those opportunities to make friends. And some of the employees at actually were also taking classes while they were working at Cal State San Marcos. So, it was an opportunity for just meeting and getting to know one another. But, you know, I still get that same feel just when I' ; ve been on campus other times that, people are anxious to help, they are anxious to reach out. And even the President was pretty accessible when I was there. You know, Dr. Haynes was primarily the longest serving President when I was at Cal State San Marcos and she' ; d be out and about on campus. And, it was, it was really great to see, you know, to know that the President was walking around, seeing what was going on as well. So, and I still get that feeling that there' ; s a lot of opportunity for meeting and greeting it at the university. Friedman: That' ; s wonderful. I would like to jump ahead now, or I suppose, change topics. You had mentioned that when you were a student at Cal State San Marcos, you were already involved in the San Marcos Historical Society. When did you first become involved in the organization? Brown: Well, as I mentioned early on, we moved to San Marcos and within the first eighteen months, my husband had an opportunity to go overseas and teach at a military facility. So, we moved to Germany. We rented out our house and bundled up our family and moved to Germany for two years. And while I was there, I was not working. And so, I just fell in love with history. And there, you know, Europe is a little bit older than Southern California (laughs), and I just really latched onto history. And within about a month of us coming back and getting resettled into our house, I was walking in the neighborhood and realized that we had a historical house at the top of a hill, not far from where I live and it was being vandalized. So, I contacted the city and I said, " ; Somebody needs to do something about this, because we don' ; t have very many historical houses in San Marcos." ; What' ; s, you know, who owns it and trying to get to the bottom of that. Anyway, the city manager at the time recommended that I contact the Historical Society and they could tell me a little bit more the house, but in the meantime, they were going to check it out and they did follow up and say, " ; Oh, the house has just been purchased and they are planning to renovate it." ; So, that was a good opportunity for something good to happen. But I did visit the Historical Society shortly after that and was privileged to meet several families of, you know, descendants of the pioneer families that lived here in San Marcos. So, I don' ; t know all the old timers but kind of the second generation of old timers. And I just was amazed at the, you know, what a small town San Marcos had, but what a rich history it had, which I' ; m still marveling at that every day. So, yes. So, they kind of adopted me. I was quite a bit younger than anybody who was serving at the Historical Society at that time and just had an opportunity to meet some wonderful people who could tell me great stories about the history of San Marcos. And so, I got involved there and just continued to stay involved for a number of years, and then took a hiatus when I went back to school. And so then jump forward twenty years after I retired and my husband and I traveled for a few years and then came back and the Historical Society was going to be relocating their museum. And that' ; s the time I kind of stepped up and said, " ; Sure, I can help." ; And, so that was in 2009 and I' ; m still there. (Brown and Friedman laugh) Friedman: Is that when you became President or were you [unintelligible]? Brown: Yeah, I have been the President for a very long time. But yes, but we have a really wonderful group of not so many of the pioneer families are left here in San Marcos. But we do have a steadfast group of volunteers that help out. We established a hands-on history program and we' ; ve had a lot of Cal State San Marcos students. Want to find out about that. That are going into the teaching program. And we' ; ve also had a few internships and I' ; ve been able to connect with the, uh, we are a community partner through the community service learning program at Cal State San Marcos. Friedman: What has been your goal as present of the historical society? Brown: Oh my gosh. Well, moving forward, thinking about where we need to be in the future is first and foremost, we have two historical houses that will always need a lot of tender love and care and upkeep because they were built at the end of the nineteenth century, so they' ; re quite old. So establishing an endowment fund for the houses to keep them and other historical houses in perpetuity or as long as they can stand. We also have--my immediate project is a fire engine that I' ; m trying to get fixed up so we can add it to our hands-on history program. And then, of course, the wonderful thing that we have is the documentation of our history and our archives. And I am blessed to be able to work with Sean [Visintainer] and Jennifer Ho on establishing a really good archival program for our records in the hope that they would be worthy of someone' ; s collection at some point if anything should happen to the Historical Society. So, just kind of laying the foundation for the future, kind of the " ; what ifs" ; and " ; what would happen if" ; and " ; how might we continue to preserve these things." ; Friedman: That' ; s wonderful. That' ; s very smart. You always need to be thinking forward for your archive collection. Going to your archive, do you have any gems in the archive that you would like to talk about or share? Brown: We have a couple things that are pretty special. So, in the early years of first establishing San Marcos, there were three distinct communities. There was the Twin Oaks area out on the Northeastern side of San Marcos. There was the area known as Richland, which is kind of the center of town and where Cal State San Marcos is. And then on the West end, there was a community known as Barham township. And Barham township today is kind of right on the border of San Marcos and Encinitas. And there was a gentleman named William Webster Borden, and William Webster Borden was the postmaster. He wrote the first newspaper that we have documented called The Plain Truth. And it was postmarked from Barham, California. Anyway, his great-great-grandson delivered to us William Webster Borden' ; s type desk, which is a tall chest that contains all the little letters to make a newspaper, the individual letters. And so, we are pleased to have William Webster Borden' ; s type desk. Another thing that we have inherited from that area, there used to be Meadowlark Ranch that was off Rancho Santa Fe Road. And we have the corral gate from Meadowlark Ranch that was taken down in the 1950s. And it is barely standing, but we have figured it up on our backyard so people can have a chance to see that. And then we have an old schoolhouse bell from the 1910 schoolhouse. And that was given to us by William Carroll, who was quite a character. He ran the Outlook Newspaper. He bought the 1910 schoolhouse in the [19]60s and restored it as his newspaper office. He relocated it on Grand Avenue and it' ; s still standing. But he left town in the nineties and moved to New Mexico and then Arcata, California. And once he got settled up there, he contacted us and said, " ; I' ; m going to give you the bell, but you have to come and get it." ; So, it' ; s a pretty far drive up there. And the thing weighs over two hundred and fifty pounds. So luckily, we were able to find someone who was making the trip down that would deliver it to us. So, we have the original bell from the 1910 schoolhouse in our museum. Friedman: That' ; s wonderful. Brown: Yeah. One last thing is our museum and building itself is pretty special in that it was built in 1939 by a grant for three thousand two hundred dollars, but it was built by the WPA, which is the Works Progress Administration under Franklin Roosevelt' ; s New Deal. And so that was kind of the tail end of the WPA projects. And so, we provided the money for the supplies, but the government would actually supply the workers and pay the workers to complete the work. So, our museum today is one of those projects from the WPA back in 1939. Friedman: That' ; s a great story. Brown: Yeah. Friedman: Wow. You mentioned how are a volunteer-run organization. How do you think the community of your organization and San Marcos in general have contributed to the preservation of the history of San Marcos? Brown: Hmm. Well. I guess one of the things that I' ; m thinking about in addition to the legacy that we leave is that the pandemic has helped me understand that sometimes you can' ; t wait for people to come to you because we were closed so much of the time during the pandemic that a lot of our programs, a lot of our volunteers, you know, we didn' ; t have them anymore. So, recently, I was on a trip up in Washington state and walking along some of the trails up there are these beautiful displays that show a picture of--you' ; re looking at a building across the lake, but you' ; re seeing a photo of what it was like in 1920 or something like that. And it' ; s called--the little caption underneath is called Trail Tales. And so, it occurred to me that we really do need to take history out to the public. And, not just on special occasions, when I go out to do a presentation or somebody calls the Historical Society. But just for anybody who' ; s maybe going out for a walk. So, that is one of the things that I' ; d like to see us do as a city and just community activity is to identify some of these areas that have changed so much over the years and have a then-and-now photo, or a description of what they' ; re looking at, what it used to look like back in the 1920s or in 1890s. So that we just don' ; t get used to thinking that this is the way it' ; s always been, and this is the way it' ; ll always be that there was something before that--what you' ; re seeing today. Friedman: How would you like to, I guess, bring awareness to kind of that issue? Brown: Well, I guess one of the things that we have to do is as, you know, try to work with maybe developers of new projects and have them incorporate some of these Trail Tales or historical icons, so that you can, actually, from the ground level, add that to the aesthetic of whatever' ; s being built today. I mean, maybe we could start at Cal State University and have a photo of the Prohoroff Poultry Farm, (laughs) I don' ; t know, but, there are endless possibilities here in San Marcos. And I was just thinking-- there' ; s a new Costco along San Marcos Boulevard and that--where those buildings were airports here in San Marcos, which I' ; m sure not too many people know about that we had two airports here in San Marcos. So, Julia, you pose a good question. It always requires a little leg work talking just to the right people and getting people excited about things. Friedman: I would like to see that happen someday. I--(laughs) Brown: Maybe we can work together. (laughs) Friedman: Ooh, I like that. I guess see that as a project, as an exhibit. I could see that as many things. I' ; m excited. I hope to see that someday. (laughs) Brown: I would love that. Friedman: How have you seen your organization grow over the years? Brown: The Historical Society? Friedman: Yeah. Brown: Historical societies, or at least ours, has not grown. It has dwindled. I think a lot of--and hopefully that is not the--or it' ; s changed, I guess. I think there are less and less, not opportunities, but there are less and less people that get actively involved in volunteerism as much as I remember growing up. Or at least back in the [19]80s, because most people would retire, you know, between fifty-eight, sixty-five [years old], and then they would dedicate a few years to a civic organization. In talking with other historical societies in North County, groups like Kiwanis [Kiwanis International] and Rotary [San Diego Rotary], I' ; ve noticed a kind of a steady decline in those memberships. And I don' ; t think it' ; s because people aren' ; t equally as busy now as they used to be, but their time is spent differently than it maybe had been in the past. And I don' ; t know. I think my generation of people, or maybe it' ; s just me, I tend to be a joiner. I like doing stuff with other people because I think more gets accomplished. But that' ; s a good question. Something, I think about a lot in terms of, you know, again, what happens if our volunteers, you know, we don' ; t have as many people that are as interested in our future or our history and moving it forward. So, my big hope is kids as all, as we like to make sure that they think history is something important and to be cherished. Friedman: How do you like to reach out to school groups? Do you have like a school program? Do you have special exhibits for that? Brown: We have, prior to COVID, we had a pretty flourishing hands-on history program for elementary students and for the primary students, they would come out to Heritage Park and participate in kind of a round robin of activities. We' ; d have five different activities that they would participate in. They would learn about the Native American community that lived here in San Marcos. They would take a tour of two historical houses. They would learn a craft of what kids did one hundred and twenty years ago. What kind of crafts did they do? What kind of things did they have to work with? " ; Did they have markers? No." ; (laughs) So we do a little activity like that. We do games that kids played with pine cones and old equipment and things like that that are kind of made-up games. And then we do chores. So, they do outdoor laundry in the tub. They wash the clothes, they plant in the garden and they make biscuits and butter from scratch. So, and then at the end of the session, we get to taste the butter that we have made. So it' ; s really about, " ; What was life like in San Marcos back in 1890?" ; And so, kids get a chance to kind of see--we partner with the Vallecitos Water District, who' ; s very gracious to help bust the students out to Heritage Park. And then they also do a little session on water conservation. And it blends right into our concept of, you know, how did people wash their clothes and wash their dishes and where did they go to the bathroom and take a bath when there were no inside restrooms? So, it' ; s kind of an ecology lesson as well as a sustainability lesson, but also a history lesson as well. Friedman: Those sound really exciting. My next question I realize can pertain both to, I guess, lack of volunteers and also children' ; s education. I didn' ; t realize it pertained to what we just spoke about previously, but what would you like future historians to understand about lack of funding in both education and the nonprofit sphere? Brown: Well, I guess, you know, my family, both my husband and my fathers were both elementary school principals. So we' ; ve been in involved with public schools our whole lives, and supportive of what public schools do and taking advantage of just amazing teachers and, you know, people who give so much to help our kids learn. And I just think that, in today' ; s world, the things that we celebrate and invest in, while they are important, to know about, I just wish as much money could be invested into education. And I' ; m not just talking about K-12, I' ; m talking about higher education and as well. I' ; m a strong believer in lifelong learning and, you know, education, libraries, civic organizations are really the things that provide a huge quality of life in our community. And, you know, it, pains me a little that so much money goes into sports, and I' ; m not against sports, or other things that people are high ticket items, that don' ; t end up with a lot of bang for your buck. And I just think, that it' ; s something that we all share and we can always make better. I know there' ; s been a lot of, you know, down talking schools as a result of the last couple of years, and I just, feel bad that teachers kind of take a brunt of stuff and just trying to do the best I can every day. Friedman: Why do you think lack of funding could be so detrimental to the preservation and understanding of history? Brown: Well, I think, I mean, history tells a lot about where we go, and where we' ; ve been. And there are, I believe, cycles that come around. But I do think, you know, again, one of the things that excites me is that I get a lot of newsletters from schools and organizations just like Cal State San Marcos. I get the update of all the cool things that are going on on the campus on a weekly basis. And I compare that with the, you know, what' ; s on the news every night, which is kind of depressing. And I' ; m thinking, " ; Why aren' ; t we covering all these amazing things that are going on in the local schools?" ; And not just Cal State San Marcos or in our local schools, but a citywide and regionwide. I mean, students are just doing some amazing things but when there' ; s not a lot of money to support those kinds of things, it does really affect, especially, those who are not--don' ; t have the life experience to know that you can go to a free museum, or, you know, there are free things. And I do think that educational opportunities through schools provide a lot of awareness about ways to do things that don' ; t cost a lot of money or that are enrichment activities through the classrooms. So, and it takes money to pay for that stuff. Friedman: Yeah. That' ; s well said. What do you think these nonprofits need to do in order to survive during these difficult times? Brown: Stick together, I guess. (laughs) Well, you know what, you do what you can do. And, you know, I' ; m an advocate. I don' ; t like to, you know, diss people for what they' ; re not doing, but really, try to appreciate people for what they do do. And, you know, make the most of it. I think April is Volunteer Month and, you know, volunteering isn' ; t going to happen if people go and they' ; re not enjoying it, or they' ; re not getting some kind of reward out of it. And I think that' ; s, you know, we need to always kind of invest in our volunteers in terms of making sure that they are able to engage in the things they like to do when they come out and volunteer. But, the Historical Society--our members--we participate in a bigger group called CINCH [Council for the Interpretation of North County History], which is all the North County historical societies. We gather four times a year just to share ideas and, you know, tips and what they' ; re doing. And you never know when you' ; re going to get a really good idea from somebody that turns out to be lucrative. And then I' ; m always looking for partnerships. I' ; m always looking to work with our agencies, our city. We' ; re so lucky to be able to be in our city park. So we have people that come out to the park and walk by and try to talk to people that come by, invite them in. So yeah, I mean, that' ; s my approach and I guess have grant writers that will help find the money and put it in our hands. (laughs) Friedman: That' ; s always important. I would like to jump back a bit to San Marco Marcos' ; history. Brown: Okay. Friedman: From your experience working at the San Marcos Historical Society, who do you believe are some significant historical individuals in San Marcos history, such as prominent individuals or famous families? Brown: Okay. Well, the original home--well, first of all, the Twin Oaks area is primarily--was one of the settlement areas for the Luiseño tribe. And, well, I don' ; t have access to direct descendants of those--the mission band of Luiseño Indians are really the kind of the original homesteaders there in the Twin Oaks Valley. So, I think that we should always recognize that, you know, somebody was here before the first covered wagons came or anything like that. And then our Rancho period was very short in San Marcos. So, the first, like homesteader families that are still European homesteader families are the Merriam family. And there are a few of them still living and in this area. The Uhlands have a huge connection, not only to Heritage Park, but the whole Twin Oaks Valley area. And there are still Uhlands family members in town. The Fultons, and a lot of these, like the Fultons, the Bordens, the Barhams--those are all San Marcos street names. So, you don' ; t have to go too far to recognize that those families have had their own streets named after them. But we recently lost the original homestead of a Fulton family, which is very sad. They had a homestead at in San Marcos in 1893, and the last family member that had lived on the homestead, moved to Nebraska last fall. So, from 1893 to 2021, was inhabited by one family. And then also out here in Twin Oaks the Astleford family were only one of two families that owned property here in Twin Oaks Valley. I mentioned William Webster Borden, the Barhams. In the Richland area, there was another Borden, Reynold Bascom Borden his house is still standing in the Richland area. So, we have, you know, again, a number of families. Friedman: That' ; s really interesting. Are there also any individuals from San Marcos history that not as well known that we should know about such as individuals from marginalized communities? Brown: Well, actually, this is kind of interesting. Several years ago we took a world map and tried to chart all the places that, you know, people that had moved to San Marcos, where they had come from. And, while, one of the things that we realized is that we had had a very large community of Serbian and Yugoslavian families that moved to San Marcos. The Prohoroffs were originally from Russia. They moved to Mexico and then migrated up through Mexico to Southern California. We do have, we have Meadowlark Cemetery that is off Rancho Santa Fe Road. It was a pioneer cemetery over on the West end of San Marcos. And there are several homesteaders there that, you know, were there prior, between the 1850s, 1870. I' ; m trying to think of other--of course, you know, I look at photos of early San Marcos. We had Japanese, we had a lot of Japanese farmers that had to leave during World War II. We have a lot of Hispanic families that have come and gone through San Marcos. And usually, we will meet those people that will come to the museum that, you know, their grandparents worked at Prohoroff Ranch or in the, one of the farms here in San Marcos. But they don' ; t live here anymore. And so, we don' ; t have the longevity of their history. But I' ; m always anxious to, you know, find out some of those kind of stories that, have lived on. Friedman: That' ; s really interesting. Thank you. Brown: Julia. I need to get a drink. Friedman: Oh, sure. Brown: Can we stop for a minute? Friedman: Yeah, absolutely. So interview with Tanis Brown paused at 11:01. Interview with Tanis Brown resumed at 11:02. If you were to interview someone from San Marcos for an oral history interview, who would be, and why? Brown: Well, we have captured a lot of, kind of the old timey history in San Marcos from the 1800s, 1900s. But I am interested in working with people that maybe are in their sixties that have gone through the entire San Marcos school district, or actually moved here as young children and watched San Marcos grow. As an adult, I' ; m pretty aware of that, you know, kind of the development of the city. But it would be interesting to get a sense of a student' ; s perspective as they have grown. And now are adults and their take on San Marco' ; s history, kind of the next gen[eration] of history for the future. I mean, we have a lot of, you know, kind of more recently women in politics. And I would like to interview Pia Harris [San Marcos' ; first female council member], Rebecca Jones [San Marcos Mayor at time of recording], and also some of our city employees who have just an amazing background of knowledge of how things came to be. Friedman: I like that. Those are really interesting people to interview. How have you seen the city of San Marcos develop over the last forty years? Brown: (laughs) Well, when my kids first walked to school in San Marcos in 1976, Woodland Park was an elementary school. It' ; s now a middle school. And it was built in the seventies when there was really very little money for new schools. But it was an open school. So, there were no dividers. And the only dividers in the school were short bookcases. And when we walked down to meet the principal before school started, he was standing on a ladder in the very center of the building, looking around at all the--where the classrooms would be. And, we just kind of thought, " ; Oh my gosh." ; It was very interesting, but on the way, walking to school, our children had--we had to skirt a pasture to get to school. We don' ; t see that so much anymore. So those were kind of our first, you know, memories of moving to San Marcos and, really being in a rural community that neither my husband or I had ever felt so close to a rural atmosphere. To, you know, watching the university get built to watching buildings get moved and relocated for the city hall complex. For--certainly traffic is very different. There were no traffic signals in San Marcos until 1974. There was one four-way stop at Mission Empico Road when I was going to Palomar College. So that four-way stop on the first day school could get really crazy. But the thing that I feel kind of most proud about is that we really established, many years ago, that San Marcos would keep a quality of life through parks, open spaces, and trails, so that if you wanted to ride a bicycle from one end of town to the other, or to visit a park, there would be one in your neighborhood and you would have a connection to that. So that part of the growth of San Marcos, I think, is going to pay off in the long run as we continue to develop new neighborhoods like North City and still keeping a quality of life, as well as accommodating people who want to live here. And that doesn' ; t mean just a certain, you know, type of person. We need to keep are community a blended community. So young people, old people, any stripe of person can move to San Marcos, find a home, and a connection. And I think between city, and the organizations, and the resources that we have is that we want to be a welcoming place for anybody who comes to San Marcos. Yeah. Friedman: Thank you. What to you makes San Marcos and San Marcos history so fascinating to study? Brown: Well, I just like the idea that you can, you know, you can create things. I think people come to different communities. Something usually draws them to an area. Like even as back as the first tribal communities, they found what was going to meet their needs: water, flat land, access to food, and shelter. And, I think people are still doing that. They' ; re looking for something that meets their needs. And so I think as we move forward that it' ; s our responsibility to make sure that we provide opportunities for people that come here. I' ; m not sure I answered that question very well. Friedman: No you did, thank you. And what do you think is so important or what is important about understanding local history? Brown: Okay. Well, I think, I mean, history' ; s human. I mean, you know, a lot of people say, and we always have to second guess ourselves, because the minute you put something down on paper and then somebody--and it' ; s written and somebody' ; ll say, " ; Well, that isn' ; t the way I remember it." ; So, there' ; s so much humanity in history and it' ; s how we, you know, how we look at it and maybe our opinion of that history changes. But it is. And there isn' ; t just one history, you know. We all make our own history. And so, but I do think--I love the opportunity that we have, at least that I have, and that we' ; re willing to share about information that people felt was important enough to document back in the 1880s or [18]90s, and may have some relevance for us today. We recently were going through the Fulton papers, which we' ; re archiving, and we found a reference in a letter about the 1916 flood that was here in San Marcos, which we have a photo of in our museum. And that same letter also referenced the pandemic in 1918. So, to me, and it' ; s like, " ; Oh my gosh," ; because we didn' ; t, well, we weren' ; t necessarily looking for it, as it related to San Marcos, but when we saw it, it was like, " ; Oh my gosh," ; it talked about this lady who was willing to go over and help her neighbors out who had the Spanish Flu. And so here it was right here in San Marcos. And I don' ; t know, that just to me create some kind of bond between people from 1918 that were right here in the same neighborhood or in the same place that we were, or we are now. And, so I don' ; t know. That' ; s just so exciting to me that a hundred years ago they were experiencing kind of the same thing and not exactly knowing how to deal with it. So, not that much has changed in spite of all the cars, in spite of all the buildings, not that much has changed. We' ; re still people. And that' ; s what I think history is really about people' ; s stories. Friedman: Well, thank you so much, Tanis. Is there anything else I should have asked or anything else you' ; d like to share today? Brown: Well, I would just like to say that, whoever is viewing this video is welcome to come out and visit Heritage Park in Walnut Grove Park. And, we welcome and would love to share history with you. Friedman: Very well said. Well, thank you. It was a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for being part of this project. Brown: Well, I' ; m really happy to--I wasn' ; t expecting to do that. I was expecting to share other people' ; s names, but I' ; m happy to have shared my history with you. Friedman: Thank you. We' ; re so happy that you are a part of this project and we' ; re so happy to have your story become a part of our collection. Brown: Great. Me too. Friedman: Well, thank you. Brown: Okay. So is that, is that it. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
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Brown, Tanis. Interview April 13, 2022
Description
An account of the resource
Tanis Brown is the President of the San Marcos Historical Society and is involved in many local history projects and educational outreach initiatives. In this interview, Tanis discusses her involvement in the city of San Marcos, CA since the 1970s. Tanis quickly became active in the San Marcos Chamber of Commerce and was among the first group of students to enroll in California State University San Marcos. A few years later, she became an employee of CSUSM, establishing the university’s first housing program and working in human resources. Now as President of the San Marcos Historical Society, Tanis is passionate about sharing San Marcos’ local history with her community and with future generations.
Identifier
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SC027-20
Subject
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California State University San Marcos
San Marcos (Calif.) -- History
San Marcos Historical Society -- California -- San Marcos
Date
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2022-04-13
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video
Creator
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Tanis Brown
Contributor
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Julia Friedman
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos
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English
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Tanis Brown
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/f91f84e4831ca55340c80edba7503653.pdf
bcf9238ee0a2132eaf9eae864a9bed04
PDF Text
Text
TANIS BROWN
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2022-04-13
Julia Friedman: Today is Wednesday, April 13th, 2022, at 9:58 AM. I am Julia Friedman, a graduate
student at California State University of San Marcos. And today, I am interviewing Tanis Brown for the
University Library Special Collections Oral History project. Tanis, thank you for being here with me today.
Tanis Brown: Oh, thank you. Hang on just a minute. I have to—all right.
Friedman: Perfect. I would like to start by discussing your early days in the city of San Marcos, California.
Why did you first move to San Marcos?
Brown: Well, I first came to San Marcos in 1976 in the kind of summertime. We moved to San Marcos
from Escondido.
Friedman: And why did you move to San Marcos?
Brown: Well, my husband and I had kind of outgrown our house in Escondido and we were looking—he
was looking for a little more yard space so he could start to garden. And so, we were looking for a little
bit larger house with a little more backyard.
Friedman: And what were your first impressions of the city?
Brown: Well, when we were looking at houses, I can remember my husband telling the realtor, “I'm not
sure we want to live in San Marcos. It's kind of the boonies, isn't it?” And, at that time, San Marcos was
certainly not the city it is today. It was a lot more rural. Many, many mobile home parks, about twelve if
I remember correctly. Only four to five elementary schools and we had two children in school, so we
were looking for, you know, a close-by school and again. So, taking some choices about, well, do we
want a little bit bigger yard or do we want to stay in a more developed city, like Escondido? And I'm
certainly glad that we opted to move to San Marcos.
Friedman: That's great.
Brown: Yeah.
Friedman: How did you first become involved in the community of San Marcos during your first years in
the city?
Brown: Okay, so, right after we moved to San Marcos, I enrolled in an early childhood development
course at Palomar college. I had been teaching preschool for a number of years and the first night of
class, the teacher said the city of San Marcos is looking for a preschool teacher for their Raggedy Anne
and Andy Program, which was very popular. It was expanding at that time. And so, I went the next day
and put in an application and ended up getting a job with the city right away within the first couple of
months. And so, it was a wonderful opportunity to meet people that worked for the city. Our location
was where San Marcos City Hall is now, but the building was the red barn that is now located at Walnut
Grove Park, that was where all the city recreation programs were hosted out of. That was the main
office for our park and recreation program. So, I started working for the Raggedy Anne and Andy
Program and was able to meet a lot of people that worked for the city at that time. And that was kind of
our first introduction. And because we were such a small community, a couple of the city council people
had their children enrolled in our ragged Anne and Andy program. So immediately, I met two or three
city council people and through their children. So that's kind of our quick introduction. And I remember
thinking, “Oh my gosh, I grew up in San Diego. I never ever knew anybody who's elected to anything.”
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And here we are, serving, the city council members’ children. So, it was a very close connection to the
local government.
Friedman: Have you remained within those organizations?
Brown: Yes. So, in addition, I only were worked for the city for about a little bit over a year because, we
lived overseas shortly after that, but when I came back, I had already been familiar with the park and
recreation program. So, I applied to be a commissioner for the park and recreation program, which is an
advisory commission for the city of San Marcos, overseeing the parks and recreation. And I was
appointed to that and it was a perfect timing because the city was growing quite a bit and we were
developing new parks. So, we went from three parks to eight parks to twelve parks, and I ended up
sitting on that commission for over twenty years. So, it was really a great time to watch the city not only
develop, but also plan for open space, parks, trails, that kept up with the development of additional
housing.
Friedman: That's wonderful. Oh my goodness. So, you really saw the city expand in just your first few
years in San Marcos. And then shortly after, you enrolled in Cal State San Marcos [California State
University San Marcos]. You were among the first class to enroll in 1989. Why did you decide to attend
the university?
Brown: (laughs) Well, my other--one of the other hats that I have worn for many years is the San Marcos
Historical Society. And through that organization, I got to be involved with the Chamber of Commerce.
We had a reciprocal agreement and I was attending a lot of Chamber events, and I was lucky enough to
meet Richard Rush, who was the Dean of the North San Diego campus at that time. And he kept talking
about, you know, they were going to have, well at one point, it was going to be a San Diego State
satellite campus up in North County. And, you know, just a lot about that. So, I got to know him fairly
well. And then, in 1989, when San Marcos was going to be the host city for the university, I thought,
“Well, I better get in on the ground floor of this.” So, I applied to go take all my many, many
undergraduate units and apply them towards a degree. All my kids were now in school. Perfect timing.
So, I applied to go to be in the first graduating class of Cal State San Marcos. So, it was wonderful. And I
can remember in my first--one of my first classes on the first day, Dick Rush came in and waved, sat and
waved out the window. So it was, it was like, “Oh, this is great, this feels like home.” So, it was--it was
very comfortable.
Friedman: Oh, that's wonderful. Because I understand that the original campus was a storefront
property while the permanent one was being built across town. Can you discuss what it was like
attending CSUSM [California State University San Marcos] during those early days as a university?
Brown: Yes, we called it Cal State Jerome’s [CSUSM was located near to a Jerome’s furniture store] and
we were in industrial park and, there were very few classes. I remember we didn't have a full
compliment of majors like we do now. And the first several years of campus life were only upper-class
juniors and seniors, as well as teaching programs. So, we had only upper division classes and every
semester there were only so many classes for each department. So pretty much everybody who was in
one class was in all your classes together, depending on what your major was. So, we really got to know
one another and there was a lot of camaraderie between the faculty, the students, the staff, because we
were all about the same age. The average age of students in the first few years of Cal State San Marcos
was thirty-nine years old. So, you can imagine that, we--some of us were older than our faculty
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members, our professors, and certainly had a lot of a local experience. But most people, it was most
certainly a commuter campus. There wasn't much campus life.
Friedman: What did you major in?
Brown: Well, I was an English major with a minor in women's studies.
Friedman: That's great. And how many students were enrolled in your cohort, or in your class?
Brown: I think our first graduating class was between ninety and ninety-five, something like that. So, we
all fit in Craven Circle, in three rows of chairs, just about.
Friedman: I was actually expecting it to be a little smaller, but that's actually really interesting. Could you
elaborate a little more on the comradery amongst your classmates? Kind of like, what was the culture
like in general within your cohort?
Brown: Well, like I say, most students were, you know, adults who have lots of other stuff going on.
Most people were working, or parents, or involved in community activities or especially jobs. We were
all [reentering]--most of us were reentry students. And so, in addition to taking classes, we had other
things going on in our lives. So, it was a little bit challenging. I know when we started to try to talk about
having student groups and all that. But once again, we--there was a deli in the industrial park called the
Full Belly Deli. A lot of people would go there for lunch if they were able to be on campus for a whole
day. Usually people came and went. It was very kind of a drive-by campus if you will, you know. People
were there because there were not gathering places. So, we did try. We had powwows. Bonnie Biggs,
who was the dean of the library at that time, brought in a lot of musical performances and it was really
enriching and exposed us to a lot of, you know, great music. And like I say, we were involved with the
Native American tribal community in the North County and so we hosted a powwow. So those were
things that were also included as part of our school requirements to, you know, get involved in these
international things that were going on campus.
Friedman: That's great. And from what I understand, there were already some student organizations
established on campus, such as ASI--?
Brown: Well, no, the first year, Dr. Ernie Zomalt who's the Executive Vice President and Sandy Punch,
who was doing student affairs, really helped form the first group for an election for the first Associated
Students. And I had just had a conversation with Charles Ragland who is one of the former ASI
presidents back in the early years. And, the first couple of years we did have the Associated Students,
but it wasn't an incorporation, it was just a campus organization. We did vote and we did actually vote
for some student fees. But yeah, so we did have an election and I was on the first Associated Students
group and we did a lot of the heavy lifting of bylaw writing and that kind of thing, as well as trying to
establish some kind of connection between students and trying to encourage them to think about
imposing fees that would not necessarily impact them at all, but would impact the future of the
university.
Friedman: Thank you for clearing that up.
Brown: Yeah.
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Friedman: That's really interesting. And then as I understand it, you later became an employee a few
years after graduating at CSUSM. Can you explain those roles that that you worked at CSUSM?
Brown: Sure. So, after I graduated, I went to work for a social service agency in Vista Lifeline Community
Services. And I was a grant writer there for about a year and a half. In the meantime, the campus had
grown and were about to launch a (laughs) full four-year student body. And so, all of a sudden housing
was needed. And because of my relationship with, you know, kind of the community, I had a lot of
access to, you know, where to rent an apartment or this and that. I knew a lot of community members,
my, you know, just community contacts. And so, I applied for a job with the university to be a Special
Projects Coordinator in the Vice President's office. So, I went back and worked part-time, doing special
projects. And then that job got extended to fifty percent of also housing and trying to not only help
faculty members find housing, but also to help students find housing. And then actually starting the first
housing program at Cal State San Marcos. So that was that became a bigger and bigger job (laughs)
because we didn't have a facility. So, we had to go out and find housing. We had to find suitable housing
for a group of students so that we could, you know, kind of cluster them together and create
opportunities that would be quasi student life. And it was, it was a very interesting endeavor. (laughs)
Friedman: It's important though. From what I understand, you also were involved in HR for many years
and in the Retirees Association. Could you explain a little bit about your roles in those departments as
well?
Brown: Sure. So, I moved over to Human Resources as the Training Coordinator and my job was to
provide training opportunities for staff and also develop a new employee orientation. So, I had the really
fun job in Human Resources. I was kind of known as the “cheerleader” because in addition to training
opportunities, one of the things that I really enjoyed doing was at the end of every year, we would do an
employee recognition. This was before they had employee the month or anything like that. So once a
year we would have an event that would recognize employees for their years of service. And just to, you
know, just to thank employees for being on campus. In the early years, people moved around a lot just
because of the growing campus. And so, there was a lot of expectation that don't get too used to the
office that you're sitting in because six months now you may be moving to another office down the
hallway. So, it was just a way to recognize, and I think the, you know, all the managers and leadership at
the university really recognized how so many of the employees got called on to do things that they
never expected to do when they were hired, just because we were a new campus and something new
would come up and we just have to do it. And, we were very limited in staff. We didn't have three or
four people in an office, but it was great. People enjoyed one another. And I have wonderful friends that
I made at Cal State San Marcos, and it's carried over to the Retirees Association as well. So, and the
other thing I loved about my job with orientation is that I got to meet everybody that was a new
employee at the campus. So, I was kind of the face of HR, I believe, for many years, in terms of, you
know, within their first couple of weeks of work, they were going to spend a day with me and I was
going to kind of show the ropes of Cal State San Marcos. Later on, a lot of my job required a lot of
compliance training as well, sexual harassment, and a lot of things like that in addition to the kind of
enrichment training.
Friedman: Well, thank you. So much of what you did as a student and as an employee at CSUSM seemed
to involve community on campus. How did you see the CSUSM community develop over time?
Brown: Are you talking about the campus community?
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Friedman: Oh, yes. Sorry. Yes.
Brown: Okay. Well, I visited campus yesterday and we walked through the dome and in the olden days,
the dome was the only really gathering place on campus. So, if you worked in Craven Hall you had to
walk through the dome from the parking lot and so you pass through it, it was the place that you could
eat your lunch. And usually you'd always see somebody you knew in the dome. So, there were those
opportunities to make friends. And some of the employees at actually were also taking classes while
they were working at Cal State San Marcos. So, it was an opportunity for just meeting and getting to
know one another. But, you know, I still get that same feel just when I've been on campus other times
that, people are anxious to help, they are anxious to reach out. And even the President was pretty
accessible when I was there. You know, Dr. Haynes was primarily the longest serving President when I
was at Cal State San Marcos and she'd be out and about on campus. And, it was, it was really great to
see, you know, to know that the President was walking around, seeing what was going on as well. So,
and I still get that feeling that there's a lot of opportunity for meeting and greeting it at the university.
Friedman: That's wonderful. I would like to jump ahead now, or I suppose, change topics. You had
mentioned that when you were a student at Cal State San Marcos, you were already involved in the San
Marcos Historical Society. When did you first become involved in the organization?
Brown: Well, as I mentioned early on, we moved to San Marcos and within the first eighteen months,
my husband had an opportunity to go overseas and teach at a military facility. So, we moved to
Germany. We rented out our house and bundled up our family and moved to Germany for two years.
And while I was there, I was not working. And so, I just fell in love with history. And there, you know,
Europe is a little bit older than Southern California (laughs), and I just really latched onto history. And
within about a month of us coming back and getting resettled into our house, I was walking in the
neighborhood and realized that we had a historical house at the top of a hill, not far from where I live
and it was being vandalized. So, I contacted the city and I said, “Somebody needs to do something about
this, because we don't have very many historical houses in San Marcos.” What's, you know, who owns it
and trying to get to the bottom of that. Anyway, the city manager at the time recommended that I
contact the Historical Society and they could tell me a little bit more the house, but in the meantime,
they were going to check it out and they did follow up and say, “Oh, the house has just been purchased
and they are planning to renovate it.” So, that was a good opportunity for something good to happen.
But I did visit the Historical Society shortly after that and was privileged to meet several families of, you
know, descendants of the pioneer families that lived here in San Marcos. So, I don't know all the old
timers but kind of the second generation of old timers. And I just was amazed at the, you know, what a
small town San Marcos had, but what a rich history it had, which I'm still marveling at that every day. So,
yes. So, they kind of adopted me. I was quite a bit younger than anybody who was serving at the
Historical Society at that time and just had an opportunity to meet some wonderful people who could
tell me great stories about the history of San Marcos. And so, I got involved there and just continued to
stay involved for a number of years, and then took a hiatus when I went back to school. And so then
jump forward twenty years after I retired and my husband and I traveled for a few years and then came
back and the Historical Society was going to be relocating their museum. And that's the time I kind of
stepped up and said, “Sure, I can help.” And, so that was in 2009 and I'm still there. (Brown and
Friedman laugh)
Friedman: Is that when you became President or were you [unintelligible]?
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Brown: Yeah, I have been the President for a very long time. But yes, but we have a really wonderful
group of not so many of the pioneer families are left here in San Marcos. But we do have a steadfast
group of volunteers that help out. We established a hands-on history program and we've had a lot of Cal
State San Marcos students. Want to find out about that. That are going into the teaching program. And
we've also had a few internships and I've been able to connect with the, uh, we are a community
partner through the community service learning program at Cal State San Marcos.
Friedman: What has been your goal as present of the historical society?
Brown: Oh my gosh. Well, moving forward, thinking about where we need to be in the future is first and
foremost, we have two historical houses that will always need a lot of tender love and care and upkeep
because they were built at the end of the nineteenth century, so they're quite old. So establishing an
endowment fund for the houses to keep them and other historical houses in perpetuity or as long as
they can stand. We also have--my immediate project is a fire engine that I'm trying to get fixed up so we
can add it to our hands-on history program. And then, of course, the wonderful thing that we have is the
documentation of our history and our archives. And I am blessed to be able to work with Sean
[Visintainer] and Jennifer Ho on establishing a really good archival program for our records in the hope
that they would be worthy of someone's collection at some point if anything should happen to the
Historical Society. So, just kind of laying the foundation for the future, kind of the “what ifs” and “what
would happen if” and “how might we continue to preserve these things.”
Friedman: That's wonderful. That's very smart. You always need to be thinking forward for your archive
collection. Going to your archive, do you have any gems in the archive that you would like to talk about
or share?
Brown: We have a couple things that are pretty special. So, in the early years of first establishing San
Marcos, there were three distinct communities. There was the Twin Oaks area out on the Northeastern
side of San Marcos. There was the area known as Richland, which is kind of the center of town and
where Cal State San Marcos is. And then on the West end, there was a community known as Barham
township. And Barham township today is kind of right on the border of San Marcos and Encinitas. And
there was a gentleman named William Webster Borden, and William Webster Borden was the
postmaster. He wrote the first newspaper that we have documented called The Plain Truth. And it was
postmarked from Barham, California. Anyway, his great-great-grandson delivered to us William Webster
Borden’s type desk, which is a tall chest that contains all the little letters to make a newspaper, the
individual letters. And so, we are pleased to have William Webster Borden’s type desk. Another thing
that we have inherited from that area, there used to be Meadowlark Ranch that was off Rancho Santa
Fe Road. And we have the corral gate from Meadowlark Ranch that was taken down in the 1950s. And it
is barely standing, but we have figured it up on our backyard so people can have a chance to see that.
And then we have an old schoolhouse bell from the 1910 schoolhouse. And that was given to us by
William Carroll, who was quite a character. He ran the Outlook Newspaper. He bought the 1910
schoolhouse in the [19]60s and restored it as his newspaper office. He relocated it on Grand Avenue and
it's still standing. But he left town in the nineties and moved to New Mexico and then Arcata, California.
And once he got settled up there, he contacted us and said, “I'm going to give you the bell, but you have
to come and get it.” So, it's a pretty far drive up there. And the thing weighs over two hundred and fifty
pounds. So luckily, we were able to find someone who was making the trip down that would deliver it to
us. So, we have the original bell from the 1910 schoolhouse in our museum.
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Friedman: That's wonderful.
Brown: Yeah. One last thing is our museum and building itself is pretty special in that it was built in 1939
by a grant for three thousand two hundred dollars, but it was built by the WPA, which is the Works
Progress Administration under Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. And so that was kind of the tail end of the
WPA projects. And so, we provided the money for the supplies, but the government would actually
supply the workers and pay the workers to complete the work. So, our museum today is one of those
projects from the WPA back in 1939.
Friedman: That's a great story.
Brown: Yeah.
Friedman: Wow. You mentioned how are a volunteer-run organization. How do you think the
community of your organization and San Marcos in general have contributed to the preservation of the
history of San Marcos?
Brown: Hmm. Well. I guess one of the things that I'm thinking about in addition to the legacy that we
leave is that the pandemic has helped me understand that sometimes you can't wait for people to come
to you because we were closed so much of the time during the pandemic that a lot of our programs, a
lot of our volunteers, you know, we didn't have them anymore. So, recently, I was on a trip up in
Washington state and walking along some of the trails up there are these beautiful displays that show a
picture of--you're looking at a building across the lake, but you're seeing a photo of what it was like in
1920 or something like that. And it’s called--the little caption underneath is called Trail Tales. And so, it
occurred to me that we really do need to take history out to the public. And, not just on special
occasions, when I go out to do a presentation or somebody calls the Historical Society. But just for
anybody who's maybe going out for a walk. So, that is one of the things that I'd like to see us do as a city
and just community activity is to identify some of these areas that have changed so much over the years
and have a then-and-now photo, or a description of what they're looking at, what it used to look like
back in the 1920s or in 1890s. So that we just don't get used to thinking that this is the way it's always
been, and this is the way it'll always be that there was something before that--what you're seeing today.
Friedman: How would you like to, I guess, bring awareness to kind of that issue?
Brown: Well, I guess one of the things that we have to do is as, you know, try to work with maybe
developers of new projects and have them incorporate some of these Trail Tales or historical icons, so
that you can, actually, from the ground level, add that to the aesthetic of whatever's being built today. I
mean, maybe we could start at Cal State University and have a photo of the Prohoroff Poultry Farm,
(laughs) I don't know, but, there are endless possibilities here in San Marcos. And I was just thinking-there's a new Costco along San Marcos Boulevard and that--where those buildings were airports here in
San Marcos, which I'm sure not too many people know about that we had two airports here in San
Marcos. So, Julia, you pose a good question. It always requires a little leg work talking just to the right
people and getting people excited about things.
Friedman: I would like to see that happen someday. I—(laughs)
Brown: Maybe we can work together. (laughs)
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Friedman: Ooh, I like that. I guess see that as a project, as an exhibit. I could see that as many things. I'm
excited. I hope to see that someday. (laughs)
Brown: I would love that.
Friedman: How have you seen your organization grow over the years?
Brown: The Historical Society?
Friedman: Yeah.
Brown: Historical societies, or at least ours, has not grown. It has dwindled. I think a lot of—and
hopefully that is not the--or it's changed, I guess. I think there are less and less, not opportunities, but
there are less and less people that get actively involved in volunteerism as much as I remember growing
up. Or at least back in the [19]80s, because most people would retire, you know, between fifty-eight,
sixty-five [years old], and then they would dedicate a few years to a civic organization. In talking with
other historical societies in North County, groups like Kiwanis [Kiwanis International] and Rotary [San
Diego Rotary], I've noticed a kind of a steady decline in those memberships. And I don't think it's
because people aren't equally as busy now as they used to be, but their time is spent differently than it
maybe had been in the past. And I don't know. I think my generation of people, or maybe it's just me, I
tend to be a joiner. I like doing stuff with other people because I think more gets accomplished. But
that's a good question. Something, I think about a lot in terms of, you know, again, what happens if our
volunteers, you know, we don't have as many people that are as interested in our future or our history
and moving it forward. So, my big hope is kids as all, as we like to make sure that they think history is
something important and to be cherished.
Friedman: How do you like to reach out to school groups? Do you have like a school program? Do you
have special exhibits for that?
Brown: We have, prior to COVID, we had a pretty flourishing hands-on history program for elementary
students and for the primary students, they would come out to Heritage Park and participate in kind of a
round robin of activities. We'd have five different activities that they would participate in. They would
learn about the Native American community that lived here in San Marcos. They would take a tour of
two historical houses. They would learn a craft of what kids did one hundred and twenty years ago.
What kind of crafts did they do? What kind of things did they have to work with? “Did they have
markers? No.” (laughs) So we do a little activity like that. We do games that kids played with pine cones
and old equipment and things like that that are kind of made-up games. And then we do chores. So,
they do outdoor laundry in the tub. They wash the clothes, they plant in the garden and they make
biscuits and butter from scratch. So, and then at the end of the session, we get to taste the butter that
we have made. So it's really about, “What was life like in San Marcos back in 1890?” And so, kids get a
chance to kind of see--we partner with the Vallecitos Water District, who's very gracious to help bust the
students out to Heritage Park. And then they also do a little session on water conservation. And it blends
right into our concept of, you know, how did people wash their clothes and wash their dishes and where
did they go to the bathroom and take a bath when there were no inside restrooms? So, it's kind of an
ecology lesson as well as a sustainability lesson, but also a history lesson as well.
Friedman: Those sound really exciting. My next question I realize can pertain both to, I guess, lack of
volunteers and also children's education. I didn't realize it pertained to what we just spoke about
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previously, but what would you like future historians to understand about lack of funding in both
education and the nonprofit sphere?
Brown: Well, I guess, you know, my family, both my husband and my fathers were both elementary
school principals. So we’ve been in involved with public schools our whole lives, and supportive of what
public schools do and taking advantage of just amazing teachers and, you know, people who give so
much to help our kids learn. And I just think that, in today's world, the things that we celebrate and
invest in, while they are important, to know about, I just wish as much money could be invested into
education. And I'm not just talking about K-12, I'm talking about higher education and as well. I'm a
strong believer in lifelong learning and, you know, education, libraries, civic organizations are really the
things that provide a huge quality of life in our community. And, you know, it, pains me a little that so
much money goes into sports, and I'm not against sports, or other things that people are high ticket
items, that don't end up with a lot of bang for your buck. And I just think, that it's something that we all
share and we can always make better. I know there's been a lot of, you know, down talking schools as a
result of the last couple of years, and I just, feel bad that teachers kind of take a brunt of stuff and just
trying to do the best I can every day.
Friedman: Why do you think lack of funding could be so detrimental to the preservation and
understanding of history?
Brown: Well, I think, I mean, history tells a lot about where we go, and where we've been. And there
are, I believe, cycles that come around. But I do think, you know, again, one of the things that excites me
is that I get a lot of newsletters from schools and organizations just like Cal State San Marcos. I get the
update of all the cool things that are going on on the campus on a weekly basis. And I compare that with
the, you know, what's on the news every night, which is kind of depressing. And I'm thinking, “Why
aren't we covering all these amazing things that are going on in the local schools?” And not just Cal State
San Marcos or in our local schools, but a citywide and regionwide. I mean, students are just doing some
amazing things but when there's not a lot of money to support those kinds of things, it does really
affect, especially, those who are not--don't have the life experience to know that you can go to a free
museum, or, you know, there are free things. And I do think that educational opportunities through
schools provide a lot of awareness about ways to do things that don't cost a lot of money or that are
enrichment activities through the classrooms. So, and it takes money to pay for that stuff.
Friedman: Yeah. That's well said. What do you think these nonprofits need to do in order to survive
during these difficult times?
Brown: Stick together, I guess. (laughs) Well, you know what, you do what you can do. And, you know,
I'm an advocate. I don't like to, you know, diss people for what they're not doing, but really, try to
appreciate people for what they do do. And, you know, make the most of it. I think April is Volunteer
Month and, you know, volunteering isn't going to happen if people go and they're not enjoying it, or
they're not getting some kind of reward out of it. And I think that's, you know, we need to always kind of
invest in our volunteers in terms of making sure that they are able to engage in the things they like to do
when they come out and volunteer. But, the Historical Society--our members--we participate in a bigger
group called CINCH [Council for the Interpretation of North County History], which is all the North
County historical societies. We gather four times a year just to share ideas and, you know, tips and what
they're doing. And you never know when you're going to get a really good idea from somebody that
turns out to be lucrative. And then I'm always looking for partnerships. I'm always looking to work with
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our agencies, our city. We're so lucky to be able to be in our city park. So we have people that come out
to the park and walk by and try to talk to people that come by, invite them in. So yeah, I mean, that's my
approach and I guess have grant writers that will help find the money and put it in our hands. (laughs)
Friedman: That's always important. I would like to jump back a bit to San Marco Marcos’ history.
Brown: Okay.
Friedman: From your experience working at the San Marcos Historical Society, who do you believe are
some significant historical individuals in San Marcos history, such as prominent individuals or famous
families?
Brown: Okay. Well, the original home--well, first of all, the Twin Oaks area is primarily--was one of the
settlement areas for the Luiseño tribe. And, well, I don't have access to direct descendants of those--the
mission band of Luiseño Indians are really the kind of the original homesteaders there in the Twin Oaks
Valley. So, I think that we should always recognize that, you know, somebody was here before the first
covered wagons came or anything like that. And then our Rancho period was very short in San Marcos.
So, the first, like homesteader families that are still European homesteader families are the Merriam
family. And there are a few of them still living and in this area. The Uhlands have a huge connection, not
only to Heritage Park, but the whole Twin Oaks Valley area. And there are still Uhlands family members
in town. The Fultons, and a lot of these, like the Fultons, the Bordens, the Barhams--those are all San
Marcos street names. So, you don't have to go too far to recognize that those families have had their
own streets named after them. But we recently lost the original homestead of a Fulton family, which is
very sad. They had a homestead at in San Marcos in 1893, and the last family member that had lived on
the homestead, moved to Nebraska last fall. So, from 1893 to 2021, was inhabited by one family. And
then also out here in Twin Oaks the Astleford family were only one of two families that owned property
here in Twin Oaks Valley. I mentioned William Webster Borden, the Barhams. In the Richland area, there
was another Borden, Reynold Bascom Borden his house is still standing in the Richland area. So, we
have, you know, again, a number of families.
Friedman: That's really interesting. Are there also any individuals from San Marcos history that not as
well known that we should know about such as individuals from marginalized communities?
Brown: Well, actually, this is kind of interesting. Several years ago we took a world map and tried to
chart all the places that, you know, people that had moved to San Marcos, where they had come from.
And, while, one of the things that we realized is that we had had a very large community of Serbian and
Yugoslavian families that moved to San Marcos. The Prohoroffs were originally from Russia. They moved
to Mexico and then migrated up through Mexico to Southern California. We do have, we have
Meadowlark Cemetery that is off Rancho Santa Fe Road. It was a pioneer cemetery over on the West
end of San Marcos. And there are several homesteaders there that, you know, were there prior,
between the 1850s, 1870. I'm trying to think of other--of course, you know, I look at photos of early San
Marcos. We had Japanese, we had a lot of Japanese farmers that had to leave during World War II. We
have a lot of Hispanic families that have come and gone through San Marcos. And usually, we will meet
those people that will come to the museum that, you know, their grandparents worked at Prohoroff
Ranch or in the, one of the farms here in San Marcos. But they don't live here anymore. And so, we
don't have the longevity of their history. But I'm always anxious to, you know, find out some of those
kind of stories that, have lived on.
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Friedman: That's really interesting. Thank you.
Brown: Julia. I need to get a drink.
Friedman: Oh, sure.
Brown: Can we stop for a minute?
Friedman: Yeah, absolutely. So interview with Tanis Brown paused at 11:01. Interview with Tanis Brown
resumed at 11:02. If you were to interview someone from San Marcos for an oral history interview, who
would be, and why?
Brown: Well, we have captured a lot of, kind of the old timey history in San Marcos from the 1800s,
1900s. But I am interested in working with people that maybe are in their sixties that have gone through
the entire San Marcos school district, or actually moved here as young children and watched San Marcos
grow. As an adult, I’m pretty aware of that, you know, kind of the development of the city. But it would
be interesting to get a sense of a student’s perspective as they have grown. And now are adults and
their take on San Marco’s history, kind of the next gen[eration] of history for the future. I mean, we
have a lot of, you know, kind of more recently women in politics. And I would like to interview Pia Harris
[San Marcos' first female council member], Rebecca Jones [San Marcos Mayor at time of recording], and
also some of our city employees who have just an amazing background of knowledge of how things
came to be.
Friedman: I like that. Those are really interesting people to interview. How have you seen the city of San
Marcos develop over the last forty years?
Brown: (laughs) Well, when my kids first walked to school in San Marcos in 1976, Woodland Park was an
elementary school. It's now a middle school. And it was built in the seventies when there was really very
little money for new schools. But it was an open school. So, there were no dividers. And the only
dividers in the school were short bookcases. And when we walked down to meet the principal before
school started, he was standing on a ladder in the very center of the building, looking around at all the-where the classrooms would be. And, we just kind of thought, “Oh my gosh.” It was very interesting, but
on the way, walking to school, our children had--we had to skirt a pasture to get to school. We don't see
that so much anymore. So those were kind of our first, you know, memories of moving to San Marcos
and, really being in a rural community that neither my husband or I had ever felt so close to a rural
atmosphere. To, you know, watching the university get built to watching buildings get moved and
relocated for the city hall complex. For--certainly traffic is very different. There were no traffic signals in
San Marcos until 1974. There was one four-way stop at Mission Empico Road when I was going to
Palomar College. So that four-way stop on the first day school could get really crazy. But the thing that I
feel kind of most proud about is that we really established, many years ago, that San Marcos would keep
a quality of life through parks, open spaces, and trails, so that if you wanted to ride a bicycle from one
end of town to the other, or to visit a park, there would be one in your neighborhood and you would
have a connection to that. So that part of the growth of San Marcos, I think, is going to pay off in the
long run as we continue to develop new neighborhoods like North City and still keeping a quality of life,
as well as accommodating people who want to live here. And that doesn't mean just a certain, you
know, type of person. We need to keep are community a blended community. So young people, old
people, any stripe of person can move to San Marcos, find a home, and a connection. And I think
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between city, and the organizations, and the resources that we have is that we want to be a welcoming
place for anybody who comes to San Marcos. Yeah.
Friedman: Thank you. What to you makes San Marcos and San Marcos history so fascinating to study?
Brown: Well, I just like the idea that you can, you know, you can create things. I think people come to
different communities. Something usually draws them to an area. Like even as back as the first tribal
communities, they found what was going to meet their needs: water, flat land, access to food, and
shelter. And, I think people are still doing that. They're looking for something that meets their needs.
And so I think as we move forward that it's our responsibility to make sure that we provide
opportunities for people that come here. I'm not sure I answered that question very well.
Friedman: No you did, thank you. And what do you think is so important or what is important about
understanding local history?
Brown: Okay. Well, I think, I mean, history's human. I mean, you know, a lot of people say, and we
always have to second guess ourselves, because the minute you put something down on paper and then
somebody--and it's written and somebody'll say, “Well, that isn’t the way I remember it.” So, there's so
much humanity in history and it's how we, you know, how we look at it and maybe our opinion of that
history changes. But it is. And there isn't just one history, you know. We all make our own history. And
so, but I do think--I love the opportunity that we have, at least that I have, and that we're willing to
share about information that people felt was important enough to document back in the 1880s or
[18]90s, and may have some relevance for us today. We recently were going through the Fulton papers,
which we’re archiving, and we found a reference in a letter about the 1916 flood that was here in San
Marcos, which we have a photo of in our museum. And that same letter also referenced the pandemic
in 1918. So, to me, and it's like, “Oh my gosh,” because we didn't, well, we weren't necessarily looking
for it, as it related to San Marcos, but when we saw it, it was like, “Oh my gosh,” it talked about this lady
who was willing to go over and help her neighbors out who had the Spanish Flu. And so here it was right
here in San Marcos. And I don't know, that just to me create some kind of bond between people from
1918 that were right here in the same neighborhood or in the same place that we were, or we are now.
And, so I don't know. That's just so exciting to me that a hundred years ago they were experiencing kind
of the same thing and not exactly knowing how to deal with it. So, not that much has changed in spite of
all the cars, in spite of all the buildings, not that much has changed. We're still people. And that's what I
think history is really about people's stories.
Friedman: Well, thank you so much, Tanis. Is there anything else I should have asked or anything else
you'd like to share today?
Brown: Well, I would just like to say that, whoever is viewing this video is welcome to come out and visit
Heritage Park in Walnut Grove Park. And, we welcome and would love to share history with you.
Friedman: Very well said. Well, thank you. It was a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for
being part of this project.
Brown: Well, I'm really happy to--I wasn't expecting to do that. I was expecting to share other people's
names, but I'm happy to have shared my history with you.
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Friedman: Thank you. We're so happy that you are a part of this project and we're so happy to have
your story become a part of our collection.
Brown: Great. Me too.
Friedman: Well, thank you.
Brown: Okay. So is that, is that it.
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�
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Brown, Tanis. Interview transcript. April 13, 2022.
Description
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Tanis Brown is the President of the San Marcos Historical Society and is involved in many local history projects and educational outreach initiatives. In this interview, Tanis discusses her involvement in the city of San Marcos, CA since the 1970s. Tanis quickly became active in the San Marcos Chamber of Commerce and was among the first group of students to enroll in California State University San Marcos. A few years later, she became an employee of CSUSM, establishing the university’s first housing program and working in human resources. Now as President of the San Marcos Historical Society, Tanis is passionate about sharing San Marcos’ local history with her community and with future generations. This oral history was made possible with generous funding from the Ellie Johns Foundation.
Creator
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Tanis Brown
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Julia Friedman
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2022-04-13
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California State University San Marcos
San Marcos (Calif.) -- History
San Marcos Historical Society -- California -- San Marcos
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections
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English
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Tanis Brown
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SC027-20
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Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Women's experience
-
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Oral Histories
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Oral History
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Interviewer
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Seth Stanley
Interviewee
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Gerardo Cabral
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=CabralGerardo_StanleySeth_2023-04-28.xml
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LGBTQA;Gay;Cross-Cultural Center;CSUSM
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5.4 Cabral, Gerardo. Interview April 28th, 2023. SC027-36 00:42:54 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State Universtity San Mrcos. Cross-Cultural Center ; LGBTQ+ life ; Education, Higher ; Human rights ; Student success LGBTQA ; Gay ; Cross-Cultural Center ; CSUSM Gerardo Cabral Seth Stanley Audio CabralGerardo_StanleySeth_2023-04-28 1:|15(11)|32(3)|47(5)|61(5)|84(4)|96(5)|112(9)|125(17)|142(9)|160(3)|174(5)|192(3)|205(14)|222(6)|240(3)|257(6)|270(9)|282(7)|298(7)|311(5)|323(4)|347(13)|364(5)|375(9)|391(5)|402(8)|413(2)|425(2)|459(11)|471(10)|485(4)|499(2)|512(9)|523(3)|537(4)|552(4)|567(11)|574(3)|595(10)|607(6)|616(6)|627(4)|641(8) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/36df964a2128464e17075f579d463428.m4a Other audio english 1 Interview Introduction 0 23 Educational background Cabral was born in San Diego and started off at Palomar college before continuing on at CSUSM. San Diego ; California State San Marcos ; Palomar 0 88 Getting involved in Cross-Cultural Center (CCC)/ Career experience Cabral explains how because of his courses and understanding of ethnic studies he wanted to apply to the Multicultural Center (now the CCC). Cabral received a position as peer educator and learned community building techniques which he later applied to his job at SDSU (San Diego State University) as a resident director. He then moved to Sacramento State and got a job in student outreach and engagement. Shortly after, Cabral moved back to San Diego and began a job more centered around first generation and LatinX backgrounds. California State San Marcos ; Peer educator ; Palomar Community College ; Ethnic Studies ; Equity ; Diversity ; latinx 0 586 Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 Cabral explains his role as a Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 and how he is a brand ambassador for the local community. He ensures that through the news the community can feel represented, and that the news can be trusted as a voice for the locals. ABC-10 ; Community ; relationships 0 799 Fostering Relations Cabral explains how he created a segment for the ABC-10 news that has a multicultural lens and provides representation to the local community, building relationships amongst the news team and the community, allowing news to be catered and personalized to the community members. Alex Bell ; Community ; Multicultural ; representation 0 1100 Advice for One Working in Community Relations Cabral explains how one must be their authentic self when building community. That their morals and values must line up with their job. To elevate ones story they must serve with their community in mind. authentic ; morals ; values ; serving 0 1296 Starting at the Cross-Cultural Center/ Sara Sheikh Cabral explains how small and underdeveloped the Cross-Cultural Center was when he started. Despite the size, the staff helped the school practice diversity and inclusivity. Sara Sheikh was Cabral's mentor and set the tone for the center. She helped to educate, train and encourage students on being their authentic selves in group settings. Sara Sheikh ; Social Justice Retreat ; mentor ; educating ; teaching ; learning 0 1725 Living Authentically The Cross-Cultural Center provided Cabral a space to be his true self and gave him resources to come out as a gay man to his family. It allowed him to live authentically and provided him with confidence that he could use to empower the community. authentic ; gay ; empower ; community ; authentic 0 2045 CCC Help Cabral Professionally/Favorite memory Cabral explains how the CCC helped him to be more confident in any space. He explains how his favorite memory was the Social Justice Summit. This is where he was able to be vulnerable and learn about others who attended. He explains how those who went to the summit became enlightened about themselves. Social Justice Summit ; Diversity, Equity, and Inclusivity ; Confident ; authentic 0 2304 Role of CCC to Coexist with Identity Spaces Cabral explains how the CCC can coexist with and work with other centers to provide resources for all. Cross-Cultural Center ; LGBT Center ; Gender Equity Center ; Pride Center ; ethnic ; identity 0 Gerardo Cabral is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his Bachelors of Business degree in 2011. Gerardo worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2011. In this interview, Cabral discusses how the Cross-Cultural Center was a space that cultivated and enriched self-identity. It provided not only students with a voice but Cabral to begin living his true authentic life. Seth Stanley: Hello, this is Seth Stanley. Today I am interviewing Gerardo Cabral for the California State University San Marcos Cross-Cultural Center Oral History project. Today is April 28th, 2023, and this interview is taking place via Zoom. Hi Gerardo. Thank you for coming. Gerardo Cabral: Hey, Seth! Stanley: To start off, could you give me a, a bit of background and how you ended up at CSUSM? Cabral: Yeah, so I'm originally from San Diego, and born and raised there. And so Cal State San Marcos and San Diego State were sort of my options. I, I didn't ever think of leaving. So how I ended up at Sac(ramento State)--or not Sac State--Cal State San Marcos is I transferred there after I did about five years at Palomar College. I was working full-time. And so with that , I worked with my EOP (Educational Opportunity Program) counselor and we, we submitted some applications locally. And so got into to Cal State San Marcos and I thought it was a great fit. Felt it, it, it felt good to attend and sort of in the current stage of my life at that moment. And so, accepted it and my journey started 2008. Stanley: Very cool. Could you tell us about your journey from, from be being a student at CSUSM to becoming a community relations manager at ABC 10 (News San Diego)? Cabral: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big question. (Stanley laughs). It's a long-- (both talking at once) Stanley: Go for it, man. Cabral: But essentially so, in 2008, so I graduated high school in 2003, and--and so I went to high school that didn't have a lot of support for sort of students of underprivileged and underserved backgrounds. So I really didn't have the choice of going to a four-year (college). I did have some of my friends go and they talked about their experience. As I was in college, I was experiencing sort of the, the life outside of their lens, outside of that lens. And so when I was going to Cal--, when I was going to Palomar, the community college I did, I did tell it to myself that I was gonna transfer into a four-year and I was going to make everything possible to get that quote unquote college experience without living on campus. So I did that. So when I got to Cal State San Marcos one of the first things was like, I wanted to get involved. I wanted to work on campus. Mind you, I was working full-time at, as a financial advisor at a credit union. But I felt it was so important for me to get that experience because if I didn't, I would probably regret it for the rest of my life. So I wanted to make sure that I made friends, that I worked on campus, that I really engaged with sort of the culture of the campus community. And so I went--I went online and I started looking at jobs, and I saw this peer educator position at the Cross-Cultural Center. I've always had, I took a lot of Chicano Studies classes, Ethnic Studies classes. So I really had this fond appreciation for multicultural education, and understanding, and you know, the, the, the work of what that all encompasses. And so, so I applied for that. To be honest, my interview probably didn't go as well because I was in, I was in the mindset of a financial advisor position. I had already been there for seven years, and so I thought like, oh, I'm gonna get this interview in the bag. But then once I started having them ask me questions about like, what's my, what's my definition of equity and diversity? I knew what it was, but I wasn't able to articulate it in a way where it's like, you know in sort of that academia space. So-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: I wasn't offered that position right away. But I did have a director at the time of Student Life in Leadership, her name is, Dilcie. Dr. Dilcie Perez. She came up to me and talked to me and was like, “Hey, like, you know you did, you did a good job, but you know there are some things that you could improve on in your interview.” And this, this, and that. And, you know as a, as a seasoned career staff already in the financial industry, it took me off guard that this individual actually provided me feedback. At the moment I was just-- that's interesting. But I really appreciated it after, because, you know, I was getting into a different career essentially, you know-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --because I had quit my full-time job. And then I went into this, in this multicultural education space. Nonetheless, I got the job. I was offered the job shortly after. I sort of was able to sort of articulate a little bit more my passions and my interest for the position. And yeah. So I did that. I was very involved in sort of the, that peer educator, the multicultural teaching work. And I think it was not--it was beneficial for me personally because I was learning firsthand some of these theories and things that were, that were being put into place. And I was sort of like starting to connect dots. ‘Cause I've always, I always knew what this was. I always practiced, you know, inclusivity, but I never was able to put terms to it until when I went into this role as a peer educator. So I would say that my foundation for community-building and community-connecting became stronger and solidified when I was in this role. So once I graduated, I went into become, I became a resident director at San Diego State (University). And I got-- simultaneously, I was working as my master's, my master's program. And so what I did was I was doing a lot of community-connecting. I was overseeing a staff of twenty-two individuals, and I was really building and fostering this inclusive living, working and live and work space at San Diego State. ‘Cause I was overseeing the dorms there. And then I had a staff. So really it, I was putting all my teachings into practice. And so that was, that happened for about five years. Then I transitioned out. and I took a job at Sac(ramento) State (University) as the Associate Director for Student Engagement and Outreach, which sort of aligned really closely with the work that I was already doing, sort of that community connecting, engaging with students, really making them feel belonged and providing events and services that made them feel welcome to campus. Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: So I did that for about a year. And then that was the first time I ever moved out of San Diego State. So I went--actually , I moved back to San Diego, (connection issue) shortly after, not because-- well one, I really didn't like the job and, and sort of its politics, but I was missing home a lot. So I came back and I worked for Barrio Logan College Institute, which was a nonprofit in Barrio Logan. And I was their--I was doing their college and career program there. So, I already had this understanding of like, how the pathways to get into college and, and really was sharing with them sort of their experiences and how to make the most of their experiences at the university level. Being sort of first generation and Latinx backgrounds. And basically teaching them sort of based off of my lived experiences. And then (both laugh) then in 2020, right before I took a job at Sac State, ’cause my husband was actually in Sacramento when I moved out there the first time, he stayed. And so I went back there , and then I took a job in Alumni Relations where I was really fostering relationships with a lot of community members, really doing a lot of philanthropy work, development work and a lot of development work is all relationship building. And I think within this role, you know, as a peer educator, I was building a lot of trust. I was building a lot of relationships with individuals who perhaps didn't understand the concepts or understandings of diversity, equity, and inclusion, but was able to really foster those relationships and really meet them at where they were at. So, we could teach them sort of the importance of that-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --or at least have them hear us out in those spaces. So that was, so that was that. And then, then in 2021, I was--I mean we were all in a pandemic and so we were all sort of at a standstill, but I was sort of, I was sort of recruited into this role that I currently have now . I wasn't job searching, but you know, I had taken a leadership program during COVID(-19) or during quarantine, and my name was sort of thrown out. Somebody invited me out for coffee, offered me this great opportunity that I couldn't pass up because it felt really great, and here I am! (Stanley laughs) And so I've been there almost two years now, come September. It's crazy to even think that I've been in this role for two years and I'm working in broadcasting. But it is something that I never would've thought. But I have never regretted it once and I enjoy it. I've, I've enjoyed it ever since. Stanley: Wow. Well, what a story. (Both laugh) Cabral: Yes. Right. Stanley: Yeah. Could you, could you tell me about your current role, as Community Relations Manager? Cabral: Yeah. So, like you said I'm the current Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 which is--our call letters are KXTV for the broadcast folks out there. But yeah, so we're, ABC-10 is a local, is a Sacramento local news station that broadcasts news for three of the counties here in Northern California: Sacramento County, Modesto (County), and Stockton (County). And my primary role is really--is to be the brand ambassador for my station and for my organization. It's really about going out and infusing myself into the community and really letting people know who we are, what we do, and what we stand for, our brand. I'm sort--I'm housed out of marketing and so a lot of my role is intentional marketing, with a focus of, you know, relationship building. And so I do a lot of the work. I mean, I wish I could say what I do in one sentence, (Stanley laughs) but I feel like I can't-- Stanley: Well. Cabral: --but, Oh, go ahead . Stanley: (unintelligible) Say several sentences (laughs). Cabral: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, essentially, like I said, I'm the brand ambassador. And so what that encompasses is really just, you know, our brand is: we stand--ABC-10, we stand for you. It's really you know, historically, news outlets have always been sort of seen as negative outlets for storytelling. You know with, because we're typically always covering shootings, deaths, killings and things like that. And so we've made it our mission before I even got here--five years ago when we rebranded and we reevaluated our mission and values for the station. We wanted to, we--our organization had committed to making sure that we were the community leader and sharing stories not only in the sense of letting people (be) aware of the things that are happening maybe that are challenging in our communities, but also those things that are elevating and impacting, celebrating the things in our community. So we, so my role is to build those community relationships, that community trust and share with them that, hey, we're looking for community storytelling partners to not only--because again, we're none of us, not a lot of us in the newsroom are from Sacramento. So it's like having somebody tell a story from where you're from and you're like, oh, they don't even know, they don't even know San Diego like that. Right? If for me, I--when I see the news and I'm like, “Why would they call, why would they call it that?” I'm like, that's not Chula Vista. That's, San Ysidro or, this is Escondido not Nor-- whatever, you know, we start to nitpick. And so really, it's about again, that's what we're--we look for storytelling partners to help us tell the stories that are being impacted in the community. The great work that we are doing, the community leaders, how can we highlight them? Because again, we want to change this notion of news to be all negative, and we want it to be both informative but also celebratory as well . Because again we are part of the community. We are, sometimes individuals look at us as the face of the community-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --because they're watching us on the screen. And so what can we do to build that trust and to showcase the greatness that it, that is Sacramento. Stanley: Um-Hm. Would you have any examples of you doing development work or fostering relations? Cabral: Oh my gosh. Yeah (Stanley laughs). So when I was, one that I'm really proud of is that we--so when I first got on in September of last year, shortly after we had, we got--in the news, in the newsroom we get different airtime. And so we have, we had a 6:30 slot. And so we recruited and hired this young woman from Fresno, who's originally from Ohio, lived in L.A., went to Fresno, and then we hired her--her name's Alex Bell--to have her own show. Almost like David, World News, David Muir. And so we wanted to emulate that. And so we hired her, and I was part of her team. And part of her team was to really, we're launching the show from the ground up. We are building content, we are building visuals. So in that process, I was really able to talk about sort of ensuring that, you know, we're looking at this show and the image in a multicultural lens and in an inclusive lens, right? Because if-- Stanley: Yeah Cabral: This is, this gives us a great opportunity to start something that we've never done before. And so, and part of my role too was to be part is, was to be part of that community engagement team with her. So, because I was there and she started in October, I just hit the ground running. So we started in, we started infusing her in the community, really just having her meet some of the community leaders, letting people know, “Hey, we have this show coming, it's launching in August. It's all community driven. It's about story, it's like storytelling and talking about--it's going beyond the headlines of what we're talking about.” And we're doing long segmenting stories about communities, neighborhoods, groups of individuals, advocacy or advocates in our community. And we were able to launch this. And I think what the the thing that I was able to really gauge as a success was once we built these relationships in Aug-- in July, right before the launch of our show in August I was tasked to do sort of like a--not, I wasn't tasked, but I was like, “Hey, you know, we've met with all these individuals. Why don't we start doing a tour of Alex Bell meet and greets. Let's have her, let's have the community members meet the team, meet her, really have them share some of their story ideas.” Because that's what we look for, right? Stanley: Um-hmm. Cabral: Because, like story, we're always getting--we're getting emails constantly about story ideas, of what we could do, what we can cover, good, bad and the ugly. And so we did this. And so I worked with a lot of my community partners that I had fostered and built relationships with. And we were able to do six meet and greets throughout the, without--within the region of Sacramento. So, in Sac(ramento) and Stockton. We had seven meet and greets that were, that when we worked collaboratively, collaboratively with different nonprofit organizations and organizations to really have them. And probably at each event we had about a hundred people attend each of these events. And these are cons--these are constituents, these are our viewers, these are people in the community. People were excited to see this new face. And so, I was able to really create a a marketing campaign to really promote this event, these meet and greets. It's, they called (it), “Alex Bell Meet and Greets.” Because the show is “To the Point With Alex Bell.” So we were able to really home in on our community and lean on them to sort of share this information of the meet and greets. And it was great. (Connection issue ; unintelligible). Stanley: Um-Hm. Oh, oh, oh, no. Pause recording now. There we go. Mute. Please continue. Sorry about that. Cabral: (Connection issue ; unintelligible) We were able to gauge the success was-- (unintelligible) Stanley: Oh, man. Cabral: Yeah. But I mean, I think I sort of just sort of shared sort of what I did and the success it was for our meet and greets at, at the station. And I think it was through those relationships that I was able to build, it was a success. Stanley: Um-Hm. All right. Before we get into your experiences with the Cross-Cultural Center just one more question. What advice would you give someone starting out in the, in a field like community relations? Cabral: Gosh. I mean, I think you have to start, you have to--oh, that's a great question. Stanley: (laughs) All good. Cabral: It has to be, it has to be authentic. I think, you know, in a space where you have to build relationships for--and there is a certain goal in mind, make sure the goal aligns with your values, first off, because I know there's a lot of jobs that are out there that you have to build relationships, whether it's because you have to meet a sales quota or because you're like intentionally and authentically needing a certain thing. Or wanting some sort of reciprocation. And in my situation, you know, the reciprocation is that in hopes that I build relationships, that we see that our community partners will feel welcomed and trusted to share with us the newsroom in, in a time if there ever is a need of some sort. Or they're wanting to help elevate a story or a story pitch. And that aligns with me. I think, you know, I know a lot of sales folks who have to build relationships, but they're building the relationships because they have to get something out of it. And I think that can sometimes be unauthentic or transactional. So--and I'm not saying that that's bad, because, you know, we have a lot of phenomenal sales folks. It just really depends on where your values lie in, in sort. And for me, it was like, “I can't do transactional.” Transactional will be part of a relationship at some point in time, but I can't have it be the sole thing there. It can't be the priority or the priority purpose of my role. So for me, this community piece, when they were just like, “We just need you to build relationships and build trust,” I, when I heard that, I was like, “Absolutely.” And then I, right after that, I asked, “Well, what is your mission and values of the organization? And what are you all trying to accomplish?” And when they shared with me all of those things, I said, okay, that aligns really well with who I am as an individual. So this work is going to seem, I wouldn't say effortless, but it's going to come off a little bit easier for me because this is what I do . This is how I live. I live through authentic connections. Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: Through community building. And so that's, I think that's why I've been able to be so successful with my role. And so to go back to your question, what I, the advice that I give is, you know, if-- just make sure whatever work that you do aligns with your values and that the mission aligns with your values as an individual. Stanley: I like it. I like it (laughs). Cabral: Yep. Stanley: Well, let's get into the meat of the interview. Could you describe the, what the Cross-Cultural Center was like when you initially began engaging with it? Cabral: Yeah. Oh, the Cross-Cultural Center was such a little center. I have not been back since I graduated, but-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --it was a small room, right next to the coffee cart. I don't even know where that's at anymore. But it was a very, very, very small room. And you know, we had a red couch and we had-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --you know, it was just like a little space. And essentially what it was, it was a community space for a lot of our multi-ethnic student organizations. It was a place where we put programming together. We did events. And it was a sub-department of Student Life and Leadership, if you will. Stanley: Um-Hm, yeah. Cabral: At the time we were working, gosh, in between (2011) through (2018), we had--at the time there was some phenomenal directors (in Student Life and Leadership) who worked very close--who built relationships amongst each other, who then really set the example for relationship-building. And so I know Sara Sheikh was like, she was my mentor. I used to see her as a beautiful soul. And as an individual who really, who really, gave me the foundation of who I'm today. And then we had Lea Burgess-Carland, who was the director of the Women's Center, which is now the Gender Equity Center. And I believe there was Roger, who was Roger De Andreas, who was the current Pride (LGBTQA Pride Center) director. And so at the time, those were the only three identity-based centers. And so we sort of had named ourselves the Social Justice Centers. And at the time they were all just very small. We had phenomenal, phenomenal staffing, programming. We were, we all were very collaborative and really--in really educating our campus community about inclusivity of gender equity of LGBT and sexual orientation theory and things of that nature. And so, yeah, it was, I mean, again it was (a) phenomenal time. Those--during that time, it was when I met some of my best friends who are still now my friends. So yeah. So that's a little bit about what that center was when we first got there. Stanley: Well I love hearing about the old red couches (laughter). Been interviewing people, people-- (Both talking) Cabral: --it was like the blue, it was like the Blues Clues couch, I swear. Stanley: (laughs) I heard you say that Sara Sheikh was your mentor. Could you tell me more about her? I actually was going to ask about her. Cabral: Oh, Sara Sheikh, my gosh. Where do I start? Sara Sheikh, she is an absolute beautiful soul. I just--very welcoming, inclusive, meets you where you're at. And I think as a mentor, as someone who had changed their career 100% to get into education I think it's like, there's a saying where there's people in your life that you didn't know you needed until you, until after the fact. And I think Sara Sheikh was that individual, you know as somebody who was closeted, gay, you know at the time that I was working there, she was able to help me embrace who I was as an individual. And to work those challenges out for me, like I said earlier, (connection issue) educating students and doing training and facilitating training. But I was a student as well because I was, as I was learning and teaching, I was learning myself. And I think she, Sara just had this, ugh, I don't know this beautiful aura of like, this, I--it's so hard to explain (Stanley laughs). I, we, I talk to my friends about Sara, and we're just like, “Yo, we miss Sara,” because she's doing her own thing now with her family in Orange County. But it's like, what a beautiful soul she was and is, because (of) her intentionality and the way she taught things and the way she facilitated was just effortless. But I, we knew that either she al--she always had those strengths, or she learned. She learned that, but like how great it was for us to be able to be part of that journey for her and for her to teach us. Because again, when I talk about, you know, my way of facilitating. My way--my active listening skills, my way in approaching things in large group settings and talking about multiculturalism and diversity and equity and inclusion, I embody and sometimes say like, “What would Sara do?” Because essentially it's like she facilitated and had these things with such grace, and never have I met someone else like Sara, like before. I hope you get to interview her, or somebody gets to interview her on sort of the f-- the foundation of what she's left, because, you know, I know her. And those, and the three directors that I mentioned started this social justice, the Social Justice Retreat, which was just absolutely incredible. In, in, in, in, in the time. And, you know, people who attended needed these spaces, needed these awakenings to really, to explore who they were as individuals, who they were as allies, who they were in their current state at that time. So yeah. So that's a little bit about Sara. Stanley: Well, I love that. I think it's pretty, pretty funny that I've interviewed a few people so far (laughs), and they've also called her a beautiful soul and-- Cabral: Aww Stanley: And also said, “What would Sarah do?” (Both laugh) And yeah, I didn't get to interview her, but one of my colleagues did and apparently was an incredible interview. So (laughs). Cabral: Oh God, I would love to hear it. God, I miss her voice so much. Stanley : Well it'll be up in the archives. Once it's up-- Cabral: Yes! Stanely: I'll be happy to send it to you. Yeah. Cabral: Oh my God, if you can, I would love that. Stanley: Perfect. Cabral: I would love it. Stanley: Anyway, continuing on, in what ways did your involvement with the Cross-Cultural Center help you expand and develop as a person? Cabral: Oh Gosh. In what ways? Stanley: Um-hm. Yes. Cabral: Geez. I mean, in every way possible. In any way imaginatory, you know, as I think before I got into the Cross-Cultural Center, I was just living, I don't think I was living authentically. You know, I think--and again--being a closeted man as well-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --as gay Latino, I was, I didn't know where my future was going to go. And I think, you know, again, I didn't know I needed that space until I actually realized it. And once I was in it, or after the fact, and, you know I think being in that space, having Dilcie (Perez) giving me that opportunity to actually be a peer educator too, was beneficial personally and professionally. And I was able to come out as an openly gay man, which is--now I'm happily married and been in my, my relationship with for eight years and. You know, we have a family. And so if--I guess I always question and think about, if I were not in this space, if I was not, if I didn't challenge myself to really dive deep into who I was as an individual, would I be where I'm at today? I don't know. Because, you know--and I was a late--I was a student, I wasn't your traditional quote unquote, “traditionally-aged college student.” You know, I went to community college for five years. I was already in my career in the finance industry. And so when I was at Cal State San Marcos, I was working with a lot of folks who had just graduated high school, but I was already in my mid-twenties. And so, you know, I was in my mid-twenties, didn't know who I was as--I knew who I was as individual, as an individual, but I wasn't able to live it authentically. And so being in this space, being in this role (at the Cross-Cultural Center), having mentors who are just like, “I am out and proud and this is who I am,” empowered me to be that. Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: And so for that I'm forever grateful. And which--and I think--which is why I made it a service of mine to live authentically, and to embrace, and to embrace who I am as an individual of my multiple identities that I have in hopes that I can too empower the youth, the--those new newly admitted college students or even adults, you know? And so, and I do have people time and time again, say like, “Wow, Gerardo you, I love how you just live authentically,” or I love how just authentic you are. And I was like, “That is, that is the only way you should live.” While I'm privileged to be able to live that way, you know, I know not everybody is. And so, it's, it's yeah. So I think to answer your question on how it's, how being in this space and in this role has changed me: I think it's changed me 100% of who I am today. And how--and the success of my career and personally and even the success within familial relationships, because I never had the tools of how to speak to my parents on who I was as an individual. How was I gonna come out to my parents and tell them? And, you know, through these facilitation courses, of training that I went through and these activism skills, I was able to come out to my parents in a way that, you know, I was able to help them understand too. And I gave them grace too, because they don't know any of sort of like the lingo that we talk about in academia (Stanley laughs), you know, because they don't have an (connection Issue ; inaudible)-- they for me to talk about equity and belonging and inclusivity, like none of that. They don't understand any of that. So I really had to be able to formulate words to where I was able to meet them where they're at and tell them how I appreciate them accepting me for who I am and having those difficult conversations. So I think it just, and my experience has, has impacted every aspect of my life. Stanley: Well, that's fantastic. I'm glad that the CCC really helped you in that way. I guess on the, on the flip side, oh (laughs), on the flip side of that question I would, I would ask how did the Cross-Cultural Center help you develop as a professional? Cabral: How did they how did the CCC-- (connection issue ; inaudible) Stanley: CCC help you develop as a professional? Cabral: Great question. I mean as a professional, I was able to navigate certain spaces with--you know--at the end of the day, we were a department of Student Life and Leadership. There were processes, protocols in place that we needed to follow, and so (connection issue ; audio cut)-- worked for other organizations and the finance industry. And so I knew protocol of like working, I knew expectations of the workplace. I knew the consequences or the repercussions if: should I not show up to work? Should I not turn in my timecard on time? Should I not follow procedures? I already knew what those, what those actions (connection Issue ; inaudible). So I felt, you know, I took this job extremely seriously already. I think it just helped me more so--be more confident in having conversations regarding these topics of multicultural education and in the DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) space. Stanley: All right. Well so you said yeah, co-- just more confidence. Yeah. Cabral: Yeah, I would say so. Stanley: Hmm. We're, we're winding down here. Let me ask you, what would maybe be your favorite memory from the Cross-Cultural Center? Or just a memory, if you can't think of a specific one? Cabral: Oh (Stanley laughs). What was a favorite memory? Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: Oh my gosh (Stanley laughs). There's so many. And I would have to say, my experience at the Social Justice Summit. Stanley: Okay. Cabral: You know, it was a weekend, a weekend retreat. And you know, you were committing to put yourself in a 100% vulnerable space. And I think for me it was great. You know, different types of life, like walks of life, walk into that room and be vulnerable and have those conversations and see the light bulbs. I saw the light bulbs myself, for myself. I saw them with others, and just the space that we were able to create that that they created of leaders, because I was a participant the first year, and then the next year I was a facilitator. And forever I (connection Issue ; audio cut)-- we, we helped facilitate and work with young leaders who wanted to explore their identities and this, (connection Issue ; audio cut)-- I would say. Then the other one sort-- (connection Issue ; unintelligible). Can you hear me? Stanley: Oh hi, sorry. It, it, it cut out a little, but I (both talking) heard, I heard mostly-- Cabral: Oh yeah. Stanley: You said-- Cabral: Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. Stanley: Were, were you finished with your thought? I'm sorry about that. Cabral: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did. Stanley: Okay. And I'll wrap up the interview. I like to ask this one, this last question. What role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with the expansion of identity-specific spaces? Spaces like the Latin
/x Center or the Black Student Center, places like that? Cabral: Oh, gosh. I mean that's a hard (connection issue ; inaudible) (question) for me to answer because I've seen the value of cross-cultural center spaces in various different campuses, and I've been part of those conversations as well at other campuses. But I also see the value of identity-specific centers and and some--the concern always comes up in these conversations at other institutions about, “Well, where does that lead to Cross-Culture Center?” Right? Because now that we've expanded into all these identity-based centers, what is now the purpose for the Cross-Culture Center? And to be completely honest, for me it's hard to answer because I'm just, I'm not entirely sure, because before we were a space where all identities and all ethnic groups were welcome then now that there are these spaces specific to these ethnic groups, like I'm, I'm curious. And again, I leave that up to that--the folks in academia and student affairs folks, because again, I'm not saying that it should be, like we should, we should remove them. I'm just curious as to how--I'm excited to see how we--we, because I feel like I'm sort of in an academia space still, but like how academia or the university sees this: the (Cross-Cultural) Center moving forward in a time where there's now a need for these ethnic spaces. So I am not entirely sure. What I hope is that, you know we are like, in an ideal world, I would love for the Cross-Cultural Center to be its own division, and then have the ethnic centers be within the Cross-Cultural Center. You know, because, you know, we--and then have the work talk about sort of that intersectionality piece of it all, of, of--with the Pride Center, with the LGBT Center, with the Gender Equity Center and things of that nature, because I think they all coexist together. And they all intersect, but it's like, how do we make sure that we intentionally do programming? And that's what that's what happened. You know, back in--when we were there, our directors made it a point that we did programs and we had assigned teams. So, you know, one member from the Cross-Cultural Center, from the Women's Center, and from the Pride Center would work on one program, and we had to make sure that we were being intentional with intersecting those identities to include as many diverse individuals as possible. And looking at it through different lenses. You know, because we're like, just because we're (connection Issue ; audio cut)-- So, like, we were always making sure that we're trying to like build those, those identities there. Stanley: Hm. All right. Well, yeah I ask that question to every interview(ee), and they do say a lot of similar things. The intentionality is what they always say. It's like they need to know what they're going to do with the center sort of thing. So thank you so much, Gerardo, for coming and I'll inter--, end the interview here. Cabral: Alright, Seth, thank you so much for your time and I look forward to, yeah, once you're done, please send, send that link over. I would love to listen to other folks. Stanley: (Laughs) I'm gonnna stop the recording here. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en audio Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
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Title
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Cabral, Gerardo. Interview April 28th, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Gerardo Cabral is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his Bachelors of Business degree in 2011. Gerardo worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2011. In this interview, Cabral discusses how the Cross-Cultural Center was a space that cultivated and enriched self-identity. It provided not only students with a voice but Cabral to begin living his true authentic life.
Identifier
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SC027-36
Subject
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Broadcast journalism
California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
LGBTQ+ life
Education, Higher
Human rights
Student success
Date
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2023-04-28
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audio
Creator
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Gerardo Cabral
Contributor
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Seth Stanley
Coverage
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Sacramento (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
Rights Holder
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Gerardo Cabral
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Latine experience
LGBTQIA+ experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/6b22ccbc00d0322a6ff45172fc768927.pdf
510d392504b80cf01ac05eeecaed2feb
PDF Text
Text
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-04-28
Gerardo Cabral
Seth Stanley: Hello, this is Seth Stanley. Today I am interviewing Gerardo Cabral for the California State
University San Marcos Cross-Cultural Center Oral History project. Today is April 28th, 2023, and this
interview is taking place via Zoom. Hi Gerardo. Thank you for coming.
Gerardo Cabral: Hey, Seth! (Both Laugh)
Stanley: To start off, could you give me a, a bit of background and how you ended up at CSUSM?
Cabral: Yeah, so I'm originally from San Diego, and born and raised there. And so Cal State San Marcos
and San Diego State were sort of my options. I, I didn't ever think of leaving. So how I ended up at
Sac(ramento State)--or not Sac State--Cal State San Marcos is I transferred there after I did about five
years at Palomar College. I was working full-time. And so with that, I worked with my EOP (Educational
Opportunity Program) counselor and we, we submitted some applications locally. And so got into to Cal
State San Marcos and I thought it was a great fit. Felt it, it, it felt good to attend and sort of in the
current stage of my life at that moment. And so, accepted it and my journey started 2008.
Stanley: Very cool. Could you tell us about your journey from, from be being a student at CSUSM to
becoming a community relations manager at ABC 10 (News San Diego)?
Cabral: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big question. (Stanley laughs). It's a long-- (both talking at once)
Stanley: Go for it, man.
Cabral: But essentially so, in 2008, so I graduated high school in 2003, and--and so I went to high school
that didn't have a lot of support for sort of students of underprivileged and underserved backgrounds.
So I really didn't have the choice of going to a four-year (college). I did have some of my friends go and
they talked about their experience. As I was in college, I was experiencing sort of the, the life outside of
their lens, outside of that lens. And so when I was going to Cal--, when I was going to Palomar, the
community college I did, I did tell it to myself that I was gonna transfer into a four-year and I was going
to make everything possible to get that quote unquote college experience without living on campus. So I
did that.
So when I got to Cal State San Marcos one of the first things was like, I wanted to get involved. I wanted
to work on campus. Mind you, I was working full-time at, as a financial advisor at a credit union. But I
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felt it was so important for me to get that experience because if I didn't, I would probably regret it for
the rest of my life. So I wanted to make sure that I made friends, that I worked on campus, that I really
engaged with sort of the culture of the campus community. And so I went--I went online and I started
looking at jobs, and I saw this peer educator position at the Cross-Cultural Center. I've always had, I took
a lot of Chicano Studies classes, Ethnic Studies classes. So I really had this fond appreciation for
multicultural education, and understanding, and you know, the, the, the work of what that all
encompasses.
And so, so I applied for that. To be honest, my interview probably didn't go as well because I was in, I
was in the mindset of a financial advisor position. I had already been there for seven years, and so I
thought like, oh, I'm gonna get this interview in the bag. But then once I started having them ask me
questions about like, what's my, what's my definition of equity and diversity? I knew what it was, but I
wasn't able to articulate it in a way where it's like, you know in sort of that academia space. So-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: I wasn't offered that position right away. But I did have a director at the time of Student Life in
Leadership, her name is, Dilcie. Dr. Dilcie Perez. She came up to me and talked to me and was like, “Hey,
like, you know you did, you did a good job, but you know there are some things that you could improve
on in your interview.” And this, this, and that.
And, you know as a, as a seasoned career staff already in the financial industry, it took me off guard that
this individual actually provided me feedback. At the moment I was just-- that's interesting. But I really
appreciated it after, because, you know, I was getting into a different career essentially, you know-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: --because I had quit my full-time job. And then I went into this, in this multicultural education
space. Nonetheless, I got the job. I was offered the job shortly after. I sort of was able to sort of
articulate a little bit more my passions and my interest for the position. And yeah. So I did that. I was
very involved in sort of the, that peer educator, the multicultural teaching work. And I think it was not--it
was beneficial for me personally because I was learning firsthand some of these theories and things that
were, that were being put into place. And I was sort of like starting to connect dots. ‘Cause I've always, I
always knew what this was. I always practiced, you know, inclusivity, but I never was able to put terms
to it until when I went into this role as a peer educator. So I would say that my foundation for
community-building and community-connecting became stronger and solidified when I was in this role.
So once I graduated, I went into become, I became a resident director at San Diego State (University).
And I got-- simultaneously, I was working as my master's, my master's program. And so what I did was I
was doing a lot of community-connecting. I was overseeing a staff of twenty-two individuals, and I was
really building and fostering this inclusive living, working and live and work space at San Diego State.
‘Cause I was overseeing the dorms there. And then I had a staff. So really it, I was putting all my
teachings into practice. And so that was, that happened for about five years. Then I transitioned out.
and I took a job at Sac(ramento) State (University) as the Associate Director for Student Engagement and
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Outreach, which sort of aligned really closely with the work that I was already doing, sort of that
community connecting, engaging with students, really making them feel belonged and providing events
and services that made them feel welcome to campus.
Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: So I did that for about a year. And then that was the first time I ever moved out of San Diego
State. So I went--actually, I moved back to San Diego, (connection issue) shortly after, not because-- well
one, I really didn't like the job and, and sort of its politics, but I was missing home a lot.
So I came back and I worked for Barrio Logan College Institute, which was a nonprofit in Barrio Logan.
And I was their--I was doing their college and career program there. So, I already had this understanding
of like, how the pathways to get into college and, and really was sharing with them sort of their
experiences and how to make the most of their experiences at the university level. Being sort of first
generation and Latinx backgrounds. And basically teaching them sort of based off of my lived
experiences. And then (both laugh) then in 2020, right before I took a job at Sac State, ’cause my
husband was actually in Sacramento when I moved out there the first time, he stayed. And so I went
back there, and then I took a job in Alumni Relations where I was really fostering relationships with a lot
of community members, really doing a lot of philanthropy work, development work and a lot of
development work is all relationship building.
And I think within this role, you know, as a peer educator, I was building a lot of trust. I was building a lot
of relationships with individuals who perhaps didn't understand the concepts or understandings of
diversity, equity, and inclusion, but was able to really foster those relationships and really meet them at
where they were at. So, we could teach them sort of the importance of that-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: --or at least have them hear us out in those spaces. So that was, so that was that. And then, then
in 2021, I was--I mean we were all in a pandemic and so we were all sort of at a standstill, but I was sort
of, I was sort of recruited into this role that I currently have now. I wasn't job searching, but you know, I
had taken a leadership program during COVID(-19) or during quarantine, and my name was sort of
thrown out. Somebody invited me out for coffee, offered me this great opportunity that I couldn't pass
up because it felt really great, and here I am! (Stanley Laughs) And so I've been there almost two years
now, come September. It's crazy to even think that I've been in this role for two years and I'm working in
broadcasting. But it is something that I never would've thought. But I have never regretted it once and I
enjoy it. I've, I've enjoyed it ever since.
Stanley: Wow. Well, what a story. (Both laugh)
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Cabral: Yes. Right.
Stanley: Yeah. Could you, could you tell me about your current role, as Community Relations Manager?
Cabral: Yeah. So, like you said I'm the current Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 which is--our call
letters are KXTV for the broadcast folks out there. But yeah, so we're, ABC-10 is a local, is a Sacramento
local news station that broadcasts news for three of the counties here in Northern California:
Sacramento County, Modesto (County), and Stockton (County). And my primary role is really--is to be
the brand ambassador for my station and for my organization. It's really about going out and infusing
myself into the community and really letting people know who we are, what we do, and what we stand
for, our brand. I'm sort--I'm housed out of marketing and so a lot of my role is intentional marketing,
with a focus of, you know, relationship building. And so I do a lot of the work. I mean, I wish I could say
what I do in one sentence, (Stanley laughs) but I feel like I can't-Stanley: Well.
Cabral: --but, Oh, go ahead.
Stanley: (unintelligible) Say several sentences, (laughs).
Cabral: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, essentially, like I said, I'm the brand ambassador. And so what that
encompasses is really just, you know, our brand is: we stand--ABC-10, we stand for you. It's really you
know, historically, news outlets have always been sort of seen as negative outlets for storytelling. You
know with, because we're typically always covering shootings, deaths, killings and things like that. And
so we've made it our mission before I even got here--five years ago when we rebranded and we
reevaluated our mission and values for the station. We wanted to, we--our organization had committed
to making sure that we were the community leader and sharing stories not only in the sense of letting
people (be) aware of the things that are happening maybe that are challenging in our communities, but
also those things that are elevating and impacting, celebrating the things in our community.
So we, so my role is to build those community relationships, that community trust and share with them
that, hey, we're looking for community storytelling partners to not only--because again, we're none of
us, not a lot of us in the newsroom are from Sacramento. So it's like having somebody tell a story from
where you're from and you're like, oh, they don't even know, they don't even know San Diego like that.
Right? If for me, I--when I see the news and I'm like, “Why would they call, why would they call it that?”
I'm like, that's not Chula Vista. That's, San Ysidro or, this is Escondido not Nor-- whatever, you know, we
start to nitpick. And so really, it's about again, that's what we're--we look for storytelling partners to
help us tell the stories that are being impacted in the community. The great work that we are doing, the
community leaders, how can we highlight them? Because again, we want to change this notion of news
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to be all negative, and we want it to be both informative but also celebratory as well. Because again we
are part of the community. We are, sometimes individuals look at us as the face of the community-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: --because they're watching us on the screen. And so what can we do to build that trust and to
showcase the greatness that it, that is Sacramento.
Stanley: Um-Hm. Would you have any examples of you doing development work or fostering relations?
Cabral: Oh my gosh. Yeah (Stanley laughs). So when I was, one that I'm really proud of is that we--so
when I first got on in September of last year, shortly after we had, we got--in the news, in the newsroom
we get different airtime. And so we have, we had a 6:30 slot. And so we recruited and hired this young
woman from Fresno, who's originally from Ohio, lived in L.A., went to Fresno, and then we hired her-her name's Alex Bell--to have her own show. Almost like David, World News, David Muir. And so we
wanted to emulate that. And so we hired her, and I was part of her team. And part of her team was to
really, we're launching the show from the ground up. We are building content, we are building visuals.
So in that process, I was really able to talk about sort of ensuring that, you know, we're looking at this
show and the image in a multicultural lens and in an inclusive lens, right? Because if-Stanley: Yeah
Cabral: This is, this gives us a great opportunity to start something that we've never done before. And
so, and part of my role too was to be part is, was to be part of that community engagement team with
her. So, because I was there and she started in October, I just hit the ground running. So we started in,
we started infusing her in the community, really just having her meet some of the community leaders,
letting people know, “Hey, we have this show coming, it's launching in August. It's all community driven.
It's about story, it's like storytelling and talking about--it's going beyond the headlines of what we're
talking about.”
And we're doing long segmenting stories about communities, neighborhoods, groups of individuals,
advocacy or advocates in our community. And we were able to launch this. And I think what the the
thing that I was able to really gauge as a success was once we built these relationships in Aug-- in July,
right before the launch of our show in August I was tasked to do sort of like a--not, I wasn't tasked, but I
was like, “Hey, you know, we've met with all these individuals. Why don't we start doing a tour of Alex
Bell meet and greets. Let's have her, let's have the community members meet the team, meet her, really
have them share some of their story ideas.” Because that's what we look for, right?
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Stanley: Um-hmm.
Cabral: Because, like story, we're always getting--we're getting emails constantly about story ideas, of
what we could do, what we can cover, good, bad and the ugly.
And so we did this. And so I worked with a lot of my community partners that I had fostered and built
relationships with. And we were able to do six meet and greets throughout the, without--within the
region of Sacramento. So, in Sac(ramento) and Stockton. We had seven meet and greets that were, that
when we worked collaboratively, collaboratively with different nonprofit organizations and
organizations to really have them. And probably at each event we had about a hundred people attend
each of these events. And these are cons--these are constituents, these are our viewers, these are
people in the community. People were excited to see this new face. And so, I was able to really create a
a marketing campaign to really promote this event, these meet and greets. It's, they called (it), “Alex Bell
Meet and Greets.” Because the show is “To the Point With Alex Bell.” So we were able to really home in
on our community and lean on them to sort of share this information of the meet and greets. And it was
great. (Connection issue; unintelligible).
Stanley: Um-Hm. Oh, oh, oh, no. Pause recording now. There we go. Mute. Please continue. Sorry about
that.
Cabral: (Connection issue; unintelligible) We were able to gauge the success was-- (unintelligible)
Stanley: Oh, man.
Cabral: Yeah. But I mean, I think I sort of just sort of shared sort of what I did and the success it was for
our meet and greets at, at the station. And I think it was through those relationships that I was able to
build, it was a success.
Stanley: Um-Hm. All right. Before we get into your experiences with the Cross-Cultural Center just one
more question. What advice would you give someone starting out in the, in a field like community
relations?
Cabral: Gosh. I mean, I think you have to start, you have to--oh, that's a great question.
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Stanley: (laughs) All good.
Cabral: It has to be, it has to be authentic. I think, you know, in a space where you have to build
relationships for--and there is a certain goal in mind, make sure the goal aligns with your values, first off,
because I know there's a lot of jobs that are out there that you have to build relationships, whether it's
because you have to meet a sales quota or because you're like intentionally and authentically needing a
certain thing. Or wanting some sort of reciprocation. And in my situation, you know, the reciprocation is
that in hopes that I build relationships, that we see that our community partners will feel welcomed and
trusted to share with us the newsroom in, in a time if there ever is a need of some sort. Or they're
wanting to help elevate a story or a story pitch.
And that aligns with me. I think, you know, I know a lot of sales folks who have to build relationships, but
they're building the relationships because they have to get something out of it. And I think that can
sometimes be unauthentic or transactional. So--and I'm not saying that that's bad, because, you know,
we have a lot of phenomenal sales folks. It just really depends on where your values lie in, in sort. And
for me, it was like, “I can't do transactional.” Transactional will be part of a relationship at some point in
time, but I can't have it be the sole thing there. It can't be the priority or the priority purpose of my role.
So for me, this community piece, when they were just like, “We just need you to build relationships and
build trust,” I, when I heard that, I was like, “Absolutely.” And then I, right after that, I asked, “Well,
what is your mission and values of the organization? And what are you all trying to accomplish?” And
when they shared with me all of those things, I said, okay, that aligns really well with who I am as an
individual. So this work is going to seem, I wouldn't say effortless, but it's going to come off a little bit
easier for me because this is what I do. This is how I live. I live through authentic connections.
Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: Through community building. And so that's, I think that's why I've been able to be so successful
with my role. And so to go back to your question, what I, the advice that I give is, you know, if-- just
make sure whatever work that you do aligns with your values and that the mission aligns with your
values as an individual.
Stanley: I like it. I like it (laughs).
Cabral: Yep.
Stanley: Well, let's get into the meat of the interview. Could you describe the, what the Cross-Cultural
Center was like when you initially began engaging with it?
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Cabral: Yeah. Oh, the Cross-Cultural Center was such a little center. I have not been back since I
graduated, but-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: --it was a small room, right next to the coffee cart. I don't even know where that's at anymore.
But it was a very, very, very small room. And you know, we had a red couch and we had-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: --you know, it was just like a little space. And essentially what it was, it was a community space
for a lot of our multi-ethnic student organizations. It was a place where we put programming together.
We did events. And it was a sub-department of Student Life and Leadership, if you will.
Stanley: Um-Hm, yeah.
Cabral: At the time we were working, gosh, in between (2011) through (2018), we had--at the time there
was some phenomenal directors (in Student Life and Leadership) who worked very close--who built
relationships amongst each other, who then really set the example for relationship-building. And so I
know Sara Sheikh was like, she was my mentor. I used to see her as a beautiful soul. And as an individual
who really, who really, gave me the foundation of who I'm today. And then we had Lea Burgess-Carland,
who was the director of the Women's Center, which is now the Gender Equity Center. And I believe
there was Roger, who was Roger De Andreas, who was the current Pride (LGBTQA Pride Center)
director. And so at the time, those were the only three identity-based centers. And so we sort of had
named ourselves the Social Justice Centers.
And at the time they were all just very small. We had phenomenal, phenomenal staffing, programming.
We were, we all were very collaborative and really--in really educating our campus community about
inclusivity of gender equity of LGBT and sexual orientation theory and things of that nature. And so,
yeah, it was, I mean, again it was (a) phenomenal time. Those--during that time, it was when I met some
of my best friends who are still now my friends. So yeah. So that's a little bit about what that center was
when we first got there.
Stanley: Well I love hearing about the old red couches (laughter). Been interviewing people, people-(Both talking)
Cabral: --it was like the blue, it was like the Blues Clues couch, I swear.
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Stanley: (laughs) I heard you say that Sara Sheikh was your mentor. Could you tell me more about her? I
actually was going to ask about her.
Cabral: Oh, Sara Sheikh, my gosh. Where do I start? Sara Sheikh, she is an absolute beautiful soul. I just-very welcoming, inclusive, meets you where you're at. And I think as a mentor, as someone who had
changed their career 100% to get into education I think it's like, there's a saying where there's people in
your life that you didn't know you needed until you, until after the fact. And I think Sara Sheikh was that
individual, you know as somebody who was closeted, gay, you know at the time that I was working
there, she was able to help me embrace who I was as an individual. And to work those challenges out for
me, like I said earlier, (connection issue) educating students and doing training and facilitating training.
But I was a student as well because I was, as I was learning and teaching, I was learning myself.
And I think she, Sara just had this, ugh, I don't know this beautiful aura of like, this, I--it's so hard to
explain (Stanley laughs). I, we, I talk to my friends about Sara, and we're just like, “Yo, we miss Sara,”
because she's doing her own thing now with her family in Orange County. But it's like, what a beautiful
soul she was and is, because (of) her intentionality and the way she taught things and the way she
facilitated was just effortless. But I, we knew that either she al--she always had those strengths, or she
learned. She learned that, but like how great it was for us to be able to be part of that journey for her
and for her to teach us. Because again, when I talk about, you know, my way of facilitating. My way--my
active listening skills, my way in approaching things in large group settings and talking about
multiculturalism and diversity and equity and inclusion, I embody and sometimes say like, “What would
Sara do?”
Because essentially it's like she facilitated and had these things with such grace, and never have I met
someone else like Sara, like before. I hope you get to interview her, or somebody gets to interview her
on sort of the f-- the foundation of what she's left, because, you know, I know her. And those, and the
three directors that I mentioned started this social justice, the Social Justice Retreat, which was just
absolutely incredible. In, in, in, in, in the time. And, you know, people who attended needed these
spaces, needed these awakenings to really, to explore who they were as individuals, who they were as
allies, who they were in their current state at that time. So yeah. So that's a little bit about Sara.
Stanley: Well, I love that. I think it's pretty, pretty funny that I've interviewed a few people so far
(laughs), and they've also called her a beautiful soul and-Cabral: Aww
Stanley: And also said, “What would Sarah do?” (Both laugh) And yeah, I didn't get to interview her, but
one of my colleagues did and apparently was an incredible interview. So (laughs).
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Cabral: Oh God, I would love to hear it. God, I miss her voice so much.
Stanley : Well it'll be up in the archives. Once it's up-Cabral: Yes!
Stanely: I'll be happy to send it to you. Yeah.
Cabral: Oh my God, if you can, I would love that.
Stanley: Perfect.
Cabral: I would love it.
Stanley: Anyway, continuing on, in what ways did your involvement with the Cross-Cultural Center help
you expand and develop as a person?
Cabral: Oh Gosh. In what ways?
Stanley: Um-hm. Yes.
Cabral: Geez. I mean, in every way possible. In any way imaginary, you know, as I think before I got into
the Cross-Cultural Center, I was just living, I don't think I was living authentically. You know, I think--and
again--being a closeted man as well-Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: --as gay Latino, I was, I didn't know where my future was going to go. And I think, you know,
again, I didn't know I needed that space until I actually realized it. And once I was in it, or after the fact,
and, you know I think being in that space, having Dilcie (Perez) giving me that opportunity to actually be
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a peer educator too, was beneficial personally and professionally. And I was able to come out as an
openly gay man, which is--now I'm happily married and been in my, my relationship with for eight years
and. You know, we have a family. And so if--I guess I always question and think about, if I were not in
this space, if I was not, if I didn't challenge myself to really dive deep into who I was as an individual,
would I be where I'm at today?
I don't know. Because, you know--and I was a late--I was a student, I wasn't your traditional quote
unquote, “traditionally-aged college student.” You know, I went to community college for five years. I
was already in my career in the finance industry. And so when I was at Cal State San Marcos, I was
working with a lot of folks who had just graduated high school, but I was already in my mid-twenties.
And so, you know, I was in my mid-twenties, didn't know who I was as--I knew who I was as individual,
as an individual, but I wasn't able to live it authentically. And so being in this space, being in this role (at
the Cross-Cultural Center), having mentors who are just like, “I am out and proud and this is who I am,”
empowered me to be that.
Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: And so for that I'm forever grateful. And which--and I think--which is why I made it a service of
mine to live authentically, and to embrace, and to embrace who I am as an individual of my multiple
identities that I have in hopes that I can too empower the youth, the--those new newly admitted college
students or even adults, you know? And so, and I do have people time and time again, say like, “Wow,
Gerardo you, I love how you just live authentically,” or I love how just authentic you are. And I was like,
“That is, that is the only way you should live.” While I'm privileged to be able to live that way, you know,
I know not everybody is. And so, it's, it's yeah.
So I think to answer your question on how it's, how being in this space and in this role has changed me: I
think it's changed me 100% of who I am today. And how--and the success of my career and personally
and even the success within familial relationships, because I never had the tools of how to speak to my
parents on who I was as an individual. How was I gonna come out to my parents and tell them? And, you
know, through these facilitation courses, of training that I went through and these activism skills, I was
able to come out to my parents in a way that, you know, I was able to help them understand too. And I
gave them grace too, because they don't know any of sort of like the lingo that we talk about in
academia (Stanley laughs), you know, because they don't have an (connection Issue; inaudible)-- they
for me to talk about equity and belonging and inclusivity, like none of that. They don't understand any of
that. So I really had to be able to formulate words to where I was able to meet them where they're at
and tell them how I appreciate them accepting me for who I am and having those difficult conversations.
So I think it just, and my experience has, has impacted every aspect of my life.
Stanley: Well, that's fantastic. I'm glad that the CCC really helped you in that way. I guess on the, on the
flip side, oh (laughs), on the flip side of that question I would, I would ask how did the Cross-Cultural
Center help you develop as a professional?
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Cabral: How did they how did the CCC-- (connection issue; inaudible)
Stanley: CCC help you develop as a professional?
Cabral: Great question. I mean as a professional, I was able to navigate certain spaces with--you know-at the end of the day, we were a department of Student Life and Leadership. There were processes,
protocols in place that we needed to follow, and so (connection issue; audio cut)-- worked for other
organizations and the finance industry. And so I knew protocol of like working, I knew expectations of
the workplace. I knew the consequences or the repercussions if: should I not show up to work? Should I
not turn in my timecard on time? Should I not follow procedures? I already knew what those, what
those actions (connection Issue; inaudible). So I felt, you know, I took this job extremely seriously
already. I think it just helped me more so--be more confident in having conversations regarding these
topics of multicultural education and in the DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) space.
Stanley: All right. Well so you said yeah, co-- just more confidence. Yeah.
Cabral: Yeah, I would say so.
Stanley: Hmm. We're, we're winding down here. Let me ask you, what would maybe be your favorite
memory from the Cross-Cultural Center? Or just a memory, if you can't think of a specific one?
Cabral: Oh (Stanley laughs). What was a favorite memory?
Stanley: Yeah.
Cabral: Oh my gosh (Stanley laughs). There's so many. And I would have to say, my experience at the
Social Justice Summit.
Stanley: Okay.
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
12
2023-10-21
�TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-04-28
Gerardo Cabral
Cabral: You know, it was a weekend, a weekend retreat. And you know, you were committing to put
yourself in a 100% vulnerable space. And I think for me it was great. You know, different types of life,
like walks of life, walk into that room and be vulnerable and have those conversations and see the light
bulbs. I saw the light bulbs myself, for myself. I saw them with others, and just the space that we were
able to create that that they created of leaders, because I was a participant the first year, and then the
next year I was a facilitator. And forever I (connection Issue; audio cut)-- we, we helped facilitate and
work with young leaders who wanted to explore their identities and this, (connection Issue; audio cut)-I would say. Then the other one sort-- (connection Issue; unintelligible). Can you hear me?
Stanley: Oh hi, sorry. It, it, it cut out a little, but I (both talking) heard, I heard mostly-Cabral: Oh yeah.
Stanley: You said--
Cabral: Oh, yeah. Okay, cool.
Stanley: Were, were you finished with your thought? I'm sorry about that.
Cabral: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did.
Stanley: Okay. And I'll wrap up the interview. I like to ask this one, this last question. What role do you
see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with the expansion of identity-specific spaces? Spaces
like the Latin@/x Center or the Black Student Center, places like that?
Cabral: Oh, gosh. I mean that's a hard (connection issue; inaudible) (question) for me to answer because
I've seen the value of cross-cultural center spaces in various different campuses, and I've been part of
those conversations as well at other campuses. But I also see the value of identity-specific centers and
and some--the concern always comes up in these conversations at other institutions about, “Well,
where does that lead to Cross-Culture Center?” Right? Because now that we've expanded into all these
identity-based centers, what is now the purpose for the Cross-Culture Center? And to be completely
honest, for me it's hard to answer because I'm just, I'm not entirely sure, because before we were a
space where all identities and all ethnic groups were welcome then now that there are these spaces
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
13
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�TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-04-28
Gerardo Cabral
specific to these ethnic groups, like I'm, I'm curious. And again, I leave that up to that--the folks in
academia and student affairs folks, because again, I'm not saying that it should be, like we should, we
should remove them.
I'm just curious as to how--I'm excited to see how we--we, because I feel like I'm sort of in an academia
space still, but like how academia or the university sees this: the (Cross-Cultural) Center moving forward
in a time where there's now a need for these ethnic spaces. So I am not entirely sure. What I hope is
that, you know we are like, in an ideal world, I would love for the Cross-Cultural Center to be its own
division, and then have the ethnic centers be within the Cross-Cultural Center. You know, because, you
know, we--and then have the work talk about sort of that intersectionality piece of it all, of, of--with the
Pride Center, with the LGBT Center, with the Gender Equity Center and things of that nature, because I
think they all coexist together.
And they all intersect, but it's like, how do we make sure that we intentionally do programming? And
that's what that's what happened. You know, back in--when we were there, our directors made it a
point that we did programs and we had assigned teams. So, you know, one member from the CrossCultural Center, from the Women's Center, and from the Pride Center would work on one program, and
we had to make sure that we were being intentional with intersecting those identities to include as
many diverse individuals as possible. And looking at it through different lenses. You know, because
we're like, just because we're (connection Issue; audio cut)-- So, like, we were always making sure that
we're trying to like build those, those identities there.
Stanley: Hm. All right. Well, yeah I ask that question to every interview(ee), and they do say a lot of
similar things. The intentionality is what they always say. It's like they need to know what they're going
to do with the center sort of thing. So thank you so much, Gerardo, for coming and I'll inter--, end the
interview here.
Cabral: Alright, Seth, thank you so much for your time and I look forward to, yeah, once you're done,
please send, send that link over. I would love to listen to other folks.
Stanley: (Laughs) I'm gonnna stop the recording here.
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
14
2023-10-21
�
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Cabral, Gerardo. Interview transcript, April 28, 2023.
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Gerardo Cabral is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his Bachelors of Business degree in 2011. Gerardo worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2011. In this interview, Cabral discusses how the Cross-Cultural Center was a space that cultivated and enriched self-identity. It provided not only students with a voice but Cabral to begin living his true authentic life.
This interview was conducted in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM and generously funded by the Instructionally Related Activities Fund.
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Gerardo Cabral
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Seth Stanley
Geneva Martinot
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2023-04-28
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
LGBTQ+ life
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Sacramento (Calif.)
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Carr, Jim. Interview transcript, September 26, 2017.
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Jim Carr spent 24 years at California State University San Marcos working for the Distribution Services team and was instrumental in implementing the first barcoded inventory tracking system for the University. Jim discusses his time working for CSUSM as part of Distribution Services and how his education and background led to him this job.
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Jim Carr
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Judith Downie
Robert Sheehan
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2017-09-26
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Barcoding
Distribution Services
California State University San Marcos
Fixed asset tracking
San Diego State University
Sustainability
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San Diego (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos
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Judith Downie
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Jim Carr
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Distribution Services;CSUSM;Asset tracking
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6.0 Carr, Jim. Interview, September 26, 2017 SC027-091 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Distribution Services ; CSUSM ; Asset tracking Jim Carr Judith Downie sound CarrJim_DownieJudith_2017-09-26.m4a 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/31e232bd190157b0333d3c3a3d37e764.m4a Other audio English 0 Introduction 0 28 Accountable fixed assets for CSUSM Jim talks about the folder he brought into the interview that documents Cal State San Marcos' fixed assets across 82 pages. That folder is included in CSUSM library Special Collection. Fixed assets ; Cal State San Marcos ; Asset tracking 0 333 Education and Employment in the CSU System Jim talks about his education at San Diego State University where he received a Bachelor's degree in English and worked as a student assistant. His work as a student assistant at SDSU eventully led him to his career as a property manager at SDSU and then CSUSM. Asset tracking ; Education ; San Diego State University ; Cal State San Marcos ; Student employment 0 1008 Watching the University Grow Jim discusses how CSUSM has grown in his 24 years working on the campus. Blossoming into a campus with over 17,000 students. CSUSM ; Expansion ; Student experience 0 1379 Barcoding Assets Jim talks about one of the largest projects during his tenure at CSUSM, barcoding all of the fixed assets on campus. Barcodes ; Fixed assets ; Asset tracking 0 1604 Sustainability and Purchasing Jim talks about the ways that his department worked with other departments on campus to create sustainable plans for the retirement of assets and how on campus purchasing plays a part in that project. Sustainability ; Asset retirement ; Asset planning ; Asset tracking 0 2175 Technology Growth in Higher Education Jim talks about how technology has been implemented within the CSU system over the course of his career. Email ; Technology development ; Higher education ; CSUSM ; SDSU 0 2292 Retirement Jim talks about his plans for retirement which include staying active on the Retiree's Association and backpacking with his grandson. Backpacking ; Retirement ; Retiree's Association 0 2542 Asset End of Life Planning Jim talks about how assets are retired from the CSU system through sustainable means. Donations or reselling old er assets are often used as ways to retire old assets and keep them out of landfills. Sustainability ; Asset retirement ; CSUSM ; Donations 0 2898 Crunching the Numbers Jim talks about how he did some quick calculations to see how many thousands of miles he drove during his commutes and how much money was spent on fuel. Trivia ; Commuting ; Expenses ; CSUSM 0 Oral history Jim Carr spent 23 years at California State University San Marcos working for the Distribution Services team and was instrumental in implementing the first barcoded inventory tracking system for the University. Jim discusses his time working for CSUSM as part of Distribution Services and how his education and background led to him this job. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:01.314 --> 00:00:16.155 Okay, this is Tuesday, September 26th, 2017. Judith Downie, Special Collections and History Librarian at Cal State San Marcos with Jim Carr, of Materials Management at CSUSM to record an oral history. 00:00:16.155 --> 00:00:19.545 Okay, so this picks up very, very well. So-- 00:00:19.545 --> 00:00:19.885 Very well, 00:00:19.885 --> 00:00:20.714 Don't worry about speaking. 00:00:20.714 --> 00:00:21.942 Good morning, Judith. 00:00:21.942 --> 00:00:23.047 Good morning. Jim 00:00:23.047 --> 00:00:28.995 Jim Carr here, also known as James Carr, in case any official documents need to be-- 00:00:28.995 --> 00:00:48.704 Okay. So let's go back to what you were talking about before I got the recorder started. There's about three quarters of an inch of eleven by four or --eight and a half by fourteen (inch) paper. Computer printout with signatures from Ernest Zumwalt, Patricia Harris, and Ron Neu-- 00:00:48.704 --> 00:00:49.395 Farris 00:00:49.395 --> 00:00:50.085 Harris. 00:00:50.085 --> 00:00:51.005 Farris. Farris. 00:00:51.005 --> 00:01:12.355 Farris, I'm sorry, it's been so long since I've used her name. And Ron New who, in regards to an inventory of assets here at Cal State San Marcos. And Jim is giving it to us for storage in the archives as part of our campus startups. The document is dated 1994. And so this will be in the University collection when it is processed. 00:01:12.355 --> 00:01:13.685 Okay. Yes. 00:01:13.685 --> 00:01:14.754 So you wanna explain this document? 00:01:14.754 --> 00:01:50.484 It's 82 pages of, the accountable fixed assets that the university, first accounted for after a long process of converting, manual inventory labels into barcoded assets. And once we were all accounted for, this is what we used and was signed up for as a dollar amount and a number of items that the University was gonna start accounting for in the fixed asset category, for accounting purposes. 00:01:50.484 --> 00:01:55.954 And what I love is I'm seeing computer monitors. Apple. Back in the days when we had Apples. 00:01:55.954 --> 00:01:56.525 Yeah. There's-- 00:01:56.525 --> 00:01:59.564 Then we went to PC and then we came back to Apple. So. 00:01:59.564 --> 00:02:00.000 Yeah, 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.000 We've kind of gone full circle here. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:32.044 Yeah. We kind of went back and forth there for a while and of course back then we were asset tracking at a $500 threshold. And then around the year 2000 we went to a $1,500 threshold and now we're at a $2,500 threshold. Hopefully at some point the Chancellors office will find a way for all the campus' to be on common ground in that regard. But right now every campus is a little different in how they track assets, so there we are. 00:02:32.044 --> 00:02:35.155 That's kind of a campus system standard it seems like. 00:02:35.155 --> 00:02:48.914 Yeah. I also have some old, letterhead that I happen to have acquired somehow that actually talks about, the old address at the University before it moved onto our current location here. 00:02:48.914 --> 00:02:50.564 Without a logo or anything. 00:02:50.564 --> 00:03:00.555 Yeah. Without a logo. It's from the College of Arts and Sciences, and the address on it is 820 West Los Viacitos Boulevard in San Marcos. So, in other words, when we were across the freeway. 00:03:00.555 --> 00:03:03.965 With the area code of 619. That's been a long time. 00:03:03.965 --> 00:03:27.000 Yeah, that's right. Also some old one with our old logo here. From accounting. That's nothing much there. I also have something,(19)91 that was just kind of interesting. back in the earlier days of the University, of course we had a program called Central Stores and it was kind of like what would later become Office Max or Staples or something. And-- 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:28.354 I had forgotten about that. 00:03:28.354 --> 00:03:36.485 --chargebacks at the time, 1991. Just little things of what we used to carry in the warehouse that we would deliver to campus when somebody was interested in that. 00:03:36.485 --> 00:03:39.205 I remember ordering reams of colored paper and things like that. 00:03:39.205 --> 00:04:21.444 And then of course, in the early days too, being a small university, our department, and our warehouse workers were responsible for every move on campus at the time. And Ron Neu at the time, used to track who had asked for a particular move on a date, when it was completed and how long it took. So anyway, that's just kind of interesting in that it references a lot of the employees that were on campus at the time, in fact there's even a few that are still around, like Kathy Martin. It won't be around much longer. Or, Marcy Boyle up in, the provost's office, that kind of a thing. So there's some very interesting history to look at. So if you're interested in that. 00:04:21.444 --> 00:04:22.764 Oh, that's fabulous. Yes! Thank you. 00:04:22.764 --> 00:04:24.444 You're more than welcome to archive that. 00:04:24.444 --> 00:04:32.095 That's in the manila folder. Yeah, I, let's see, Mitchell, I wonder if that's Dannis Mitchell or. 00:04:32.095 --> 00:04:34.264 Susan Mitchell. It's probably Dannis. 00:04:34.264 --> 00:04:38.345 And then there was also another D. Mitchell. It was Judy Taylor's daughter. 00:04:38.345 --> 00:04:39.644 Oh, really? 00:04:39.644 --> 00:04:46.774 Oh, what was her name? She worked in, boy. Yeah, this is going back. Oh, I see. Yee. So that would be probably Michael Yee. 00:04:46.774 --> 00:04:48.963 Mike Yee or Criselda Yee maybe. 00:04:48.963 --> 00:04:50.426 Yeah, who just retired. 00:04:50.426 --> 00:04:51.706 Yeah, he just retired. 00:04:51.706 --> 00:04:52.475 Oh, there's Theresa Handy. 00:04:52.475 --> 00:04:53.764 Yeah. Still here. 00:04:53.764 --> 00:04:58.125 Oh yeah, I'm seeing a lot of names down there that take me down-- 00:04:58.125 --> 00:05:04.925 Yeah, interesting names. So I, again, I just kind of thought something I found when I was going through my files that I thought maybe the archives would be interesting. 00:05:04.925 --> 00:05:17.725 Yeah, no, definitely. Wonderful. Okay. Very good. Well, here's a rough idea of kinds of questions you could answer. And of course, if you take off from those and talk about something else, that's absolutely fabulous. 00:05:17.725 --> 00:05:19.463 Okay. That sounds good. 00:05:19.463 --> 00:05:33.485 And here is a clipping from the San Diego North County Times with-- this goes through 2004. So that's not, of course exhausted by any means, but it might trigger a few things 'cause. 00:05:33.485 --> 00:05:51.024 Absolutely. And I can certainly, relate to this in, in several regards. And I'll tie in my history here. I'll start with where I was before. CSUSM back, of course my history with the CSU actually spans 44 years. 00:05:51.024 --> 00:05:51.634 Wow. 00:05:51.634 --> 00:08:53.206 When you count the idea that I actually went to San Diego State and was a college student there, starting in the fall of 1973. And I graduated in May of 1978. And during that time, I was able to be employed as a student assistant in the property office there under a gentleman named John Hines at the time. And, he put me to work as a inventory student to go around to different buildings and do inventory. So I'd take a clipboard and a piece of paper and I would write down asset tag numbers and record those and give them to John to, you know, do his tracking and accountability for those. And I remember, at the time we had just opened a brand new art building and I was very excited 'cause John handed me his master keys, said, Jim, go through every room in this building and find every asset you can find 'cause we wanna make sure we know what got moved into that new building. So that was fun. And it was a very good experience and a very good precursor to learning all the things that I did that I brought to Cal State San Marcos. But before I got to San Marcos again, I spent a couple years as a student assistant. I also worked over in, what was called the Duplication Department, doing deliveries of printed materials as, what they would call secretaries back then needed particular copies made. And of course, back then they had their great big printing machines. There was no such thing as, printers. There were still mimeograph machines and all that back then and typewriters by the galore 'cause that was the mid seventies (1970s). So, apparently I was well-liked as a student assistant. 'cause I did graduate and I worked off campus for a couple of years. And during those couple of years off campus, I worked for a delivery service that handled a lot of medical accounts. It was kind of like a small, say like a FedEx home delivery type business. And our accounts were mainly, medical at the time. So we delivered to a lot of pharmacies, medical labs, dental labs. And for a short while, there was actually a veterinary account that we carried. And one of my routes during that time carried me from Kearney Mesa, all the way up to the small town of San Marcos. So this would see be around 1979, 1980, somewhere in there. And on one trip at the end of my day, I remember driving down this long road delivering to a chicken ranch, and I can almost guarantee that it was the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch. And I delivered a small box of veterinary supplies. And I don't remember much of it other than it was a long road. And I found someone out there that could sign for the package. I handed it to 'em and off I went. But it's just fascinating that I probably came to the Chicken ranch once in my career. 00:08:53.206 --> 00:08:56.195 And no inkling you were going to be back there for something. 00:08:56.195 --> 00:09:01.294 I had no idea. Absolutely. So that was just a great story. 00:09:01.294 --> 00:10:51.645 later on, I found out that there was an opening in the department, that I had worked for at San Diego State, and I applied for that position and, took that position in September of 1980. And that began my employment career in the California State University system. So I went to work, in the property office. And, I spent twelve and a half years working at San Diego State. And during that time, I certainly remember that, San Diego State, of course had a satellite campus out in Imperial Valley at the time. Well, up there in the North County, growing as it was, the University wanted to establish a North County campus up there. And, again, based on your history here, I can see that in September of 1979, a satellite branch of the university opened in Vista, for 148 students. And I remember, it may have been after this point, but at one point, the North County satellite campus moved to a location on the Lincoln Middle School, I believe. And they actually, assigned an admin coordinator, secretary, whatever you wanna say, in a trailer there at that location. And that secretary needed some furniture. She would need a desk, she would need a table, a file cabinet, maybe, bookcase, something like that. And, John, my supervisor, said, well, Jim and Larry, my coworker at the time, go to our surplus area, pick out a nice desk, pick out some furniture, and you're gonna make a road trip up to that location and deliver that for that secretary. So I do remember making a trip up to Vista at the time and delivering some, surplus furniture. So that staff employee-- 00:10:51.645 --> 00:10:53.725 Yeah. Was this Prison Industry's furniture do you remember? 00:10:53.725 --> 00:12:27.384 It probably-- Well, I, no, it wasn't Prison Industries. It would've been an old, like World War II type metal desk. That would've been what we had a lot of at San Diego State. A lot of that type of furniture at the time. So that was kind of another little piece of history. And of course, as the, North County satellite campus grew larger and larger, we would make trips up there when they would order tablet armchairs that would come into our receiving at San Diego State. And then we'd have to make, again, another road trip up to deliver a tablet armchairs or other furniture as it grew and grew and grew. And then, obviously it got to the point, at San Diego State, John Hines retired and I became the, the property clerk there for a while. So, it became obvious that San Marcos was going to be dedicating a brand new campus up there in North County. And it was about the time I had become the property clerk. So employees were getting hired up there at, the new campus. It officially dedicated again in, I believe, July of 1989. It was, established. And, some of the new employees would come down to San Diego State, like Ron Neu, who had been hired in there at the time, would come down to San Diego State and visit with me to kind of get ideas of how we did processes and set up policies and how we did that kind of business to support the University in categories such as fixed asset tracking, shipping and receiving, if you had a central store's mail, that kind of thing. 00:12:27.384 --> 00:14:21.825 So, I would talk to Ron and, he was impressed with, how we ran things at San Diego State. And it wasn't too long after that, that burgeoning campus there at, Cal State San Marcos, was now going to be separating completely from San Diego State. There was a little transitional time where San Diego State supported Cal State San Marcos in some of their processes and business practices. Well, once the split occurred, I was tasked to go up to Cal State San Marcos when they're still at the Jerome's location. And do an inventory again, of tracking fixed assets to find out what assets the University (CSUSM) was gonna keep that used to belong to San Diego State. And which ones they wanted to relinquish back to San Diego State. So again, I went up to the Jerome's location and went through all the buildings and track things. And I walked around with Ron who said, okay, we're gonna keep these pieces and these, you're gonna, you know, gonna be moved back to San Diego State at some point. So that was, again, a great experience. And again, meeting more people at the new campus and being very excited for them. And, so went back, took care of that project. And then before long I was getting calls from Ron Neu, asking if I might be interested in coming to work at Cal State San Marcos. And this was in, late 1992. And, that was one of the times when, our CSU system was undergoing one of its budget downturns. And there were some, tough times there. There was new management coming in. There were workers that were getting laid off, only because they were temporary, but there were some tough times. And the prospect of a new, vibrant, exciting university just up the road, was very appealing. And, again, Ron was wooing me, and it didn't take me too long to realize that this would be a very good move. 00:14:21.825 --> 00:16:47.004 So in, December of 1992, right before Craven Hall (Academic Hall) was occupied, I came up to the campus and submitted my application for a warehouse worker position that had opened up in, Support Services there at the USB (University Services Building) building, one of our first buildings on campus. And, Human Resources was in Academic Hall at the time. And I submitted my application and I interviewed with, Ron and Ivalee Clark and a gentleman, from procurement at the time, and ended up getting the job. So in February of 1993, I had given my notice, and I came up, started working at Cal State San Marcos, and, a couple years later I got reclassed into the property clerk position. And again, we were starting to barcode all our assets, and it was a very exciting time at the, the young campus. The, Craven Hall building was dedicated in April of 1993. And that was exciting, to go through that ceremony. And, one other interesting thing about, my previous history at San Diego State was when I was a college student, I took an English class and it was called, John Milton. And it was about that writer, John Milton, and a lot of his writings. And the particular faculty member that taught that class was none other than Mr. Richard Rush, who was one of the very first, administrators here at the new university. I think by the time I started, he had already moved on to become president back at, the University of Minnesota that he was. But, it was neat to, have had him as an instructor. And find out he was an administrator here. And then of course, he spent a very great distinguished career up at, (CSU) Channel Islands. And I think he came down to campus a couple times to visit. And I think I got a chance to talk to him a few times and mention that I had been a student of his and, put a smile on his face there. He was a good instructor. So, that was kind of another neat little piece of history. And then I've of course spent 24 and a half years here at Cal State San Marcos, always down there in the University Services Building, whether we were called Support Services or Materials Management, or now we're Distribution Services. And it's been a--it's been a great career and I've loved working here. 00:16:47.004 --> 00:16:48.754 I've always seen you with a smile on your face. 00:16:48.754 --> 00:17:08.755 Well, thank you. It's-- there's been great people here. There were of course, great people working at San Diego State too. So--but to see the university grow and blossom from, you know, just the few buildings that were here when I started to our large vibrant campus now with 17,000 students has been--has been a great experience. 00:17:08.755 --> 00:17:11.204 Yeah. Very. It's been amazing. It's definitely been amazing. 00:17:11.204 --> 00:17:13.243 Absolutely. So-- 00:17:13.243 --> 00:17:16.607 I came in (19)91 as a student, so yeah, I've done that. 00:17:16.607 --> 00:17:17.125 Oh. There you go. 00:17:17.125 --> 00:17:22.924 It's very similar trajectory of being here to help schlep all the stuff. 00:17:22.924 --> 00:17:25.434 Yeah. Yep. And been a lot of schlepping over time. 00:17:25.434 --> 00:17:26.194 Yeah. Yeah. 00:17:26.194 --> 00:17:56.444 It's been great to see the buildings come up and people move and the students come in and, and the technology change to, to see how education has grown over the years. It would've been neat to have been a little more involved on the academic side, but, I was very proud to have, supported the University with our customer service and the frontline people that are behind the scenes on the business side of the University that, you know, really keep it going. 00:17:56.444 --> 00:17:58.404 Yeah. You're the grease that makes the wheels turn. 00:17:58.404 --> 00:18:00.233 That's, that's kinda it. Yeah. 00:18:00.233 --> 00:18:01.684 Very essential to getting things done. 00:18:01.684 --> 00:18:20.005 Yeah. And the nice thing about San Marcos, we've generally had pretty good, support from management to, you know, continue our operation and make sure that we provide the service that's best for the campus. So, very glad to have been part of that. Very good. So thank you, Judith. 00:18:20.005 --> 00:18:26.045 Well and so, you talked about being a student at San Diego State. What was your degree? 00:18:26.045 --> 00:18:27.869 My degree was in English. 00:18:27.869 --> 00:18:28.599 Oh, okay. 00:18:28.599 --> 00:19:11.505 And, I guess I could have pursued a teaching credential or something might've been the logical direction to go, but the employment that I had experienced as a student assistant was really good. And, my mother in fact was a department secretary there at San Diego State for about 20 years. And, her promoting the benefits of state employment kinda said, well, you know, this would be a good direction. I kind of like what I was doing. And, so again, when, that position opened up, it was a great draw and I'm glad I did, because, our benefits are very good. 00:19:11.505 --> 00:19:26.444 And do you think that having been a student assistant maybe also helped you decide to go that way? Just because you had worked with good people, you also saw how the system worked rather than going blindly into something completely different and saying wait a minute I don't think I like this? 00:19:26.444 --> 00:19:57.000 Absolutely. Yep. The student assistant definitely was part--it was fun to work on a campus. You worked with really good people. You worked with, other student assistants that were, you know, enjoying being employed before they headed off in their careers and things. And, working with people that, had--were actually in second careers. Because a lot of the people at the time I worked with were veterans from World War II and they were working in that support business for the University, because that's what they had done in the military. 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.964 The military runs on logistics and things, so, yeah-- 00:20:00.964 --> 00:20:16.275 Exactly. So it was, it was kind of neat. And I had always, enjoyed logistics like that. So it was a very good fit. And, so the student assistant experience was a very good precursor to going into that business. And I was glad I did. Yeah. It was a good fit. 00:20:16.275 --> 00:20:19.785 Okay. So, have you ever attended any classes at Cal State San Marcos? 00:20:19.785 --> 00:20:46.243 I never did, other than, some, you know, classes that you get sent to as an employee. I did join a national association called the National Property Managers Association, which is a nationwide group of property professionals, again, property having to do with fixed assets and tracking. 00:20:46.243 --> 00:20:47.315 As opposed to real estate? 00:20:47.315 --> 00:21:41.674 Correct. Correct. Tracking fixed assets in all kinds of different applications. Everything from the military, a lot of federal programs, universities, cities, counties, state agencies. So, it's a very good support group for property professionals. And I got my certification in that. And, kept that for a while. I wish I could have pursued it more, but at some point, the University decided that, we'd move a different direction in that regard. So I'm hoping maybe, anyone that follows me in the fixed asset world might be able to join that association. Because it's a very great support group along with the other property clerks. In the CSU system, which are also very good resources. 00:21:41.674 --> 00:21:47.894 So is there anything formal in the CSU for the property? 00:21:47.894 --> 00:22:42.855 No, not really. Other than, like the Chancellor's office attempting to, you know, set new standards and guidelines for, tracking assets. Whether it be capital assets, non-capital assets, theft sensitive assets. But the property clerks, had some meetings that they would get together in the late nineties (1990s), early two thousands (2000s). They kind of fell off during the recession, but about three years ago (circa 2014), they started having them again. So, the CSU property clerks are getting together for a conference, in fact next month in October at San Diego State and my successor is gonna be joining that conference and a couple other people here on campus. So I'm glad to see that that's been revived. And that, they get together and talk about different challenges that they have amongst the campuses in their business practices. So it's good to share that information and learn something. 00:22:42.855 --> 00:22:47.134 And communication is only augmented when you can do face to face and build some relationships that way. 00:22:47.134 --> 00:22:48.214 Exactly. 00:22:48.214 --> 00:22:49.365 So that's great. That's great. I'm glad to hear that. 00:22:49.365 --> 00:22:52.674 I'm glad to hear they're doing that. Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:52.674 --> 00:22:58.000 And you talked about your mother working at San Diego State for 20 years and being a champion. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.515 Yes! 00:22:59.515 --> 00:23:06.585 but what are some of the most notable projects you can remember having worked on? I mean, the barcoding the assets was a huge project-- 00:23:06.585 --> 00:25:10.434 Right. That's a big project because even ongoing, as we add new buildings, you have to go into each building and kind of update where all your equipment is moved. So if everything was in the first science building (Science Hall 1), now they've opened a new science building (Science Hall 2), first thing you have to do is go through the whole building and barcode all the rooms so that you can track locations. And then, you kind of go through and have to update, locations within all those labs, what centrifuges--microscopes, whatever it might be, have moved. And, of course we've been very lucky as a campus that, we have centralized computing on our campus, but we used to barcode every computer that came into the campus. And of course, computers were very important piece of equipment. And even more so these days in our information age where computers are holding a lot of data and basically have become a very, very strong security risk. As we all know, when you're talking about data breaches and things like that. So, IITS we're lucky on our campus being very centralized as we have it, makes it a lot easier for them to kind of grab the reins on tracking data security with the new software and technology that they have, which makes tracking computers much better for them to do than (have) me slap on my paper asset tag and go, it is located here. Well, the datas are the most important part. So, we actually haven't been tagging, with our barcodes, computers in some time because they've been tracking that on their own with their own asset tags. And, the important part of course is tracking the data security of that. Because when a computer is now not gonna be used, they'll pull a hard drive and make sure that's taken care of. Or wipe a computer because you don't want any information to be disposed. Because again, you've got assets that come into the university, they have a life, well, at some point that life's gonna end. And so how do you dispose of assets? 00:25:10.434 --> 00:26:30.164 It's very important that you wanna make sure everything is--there's no data on them. How are you gonna dispose of it? Is it--'cause again, with sustainability, a big part of dispositions of assets, you're gonna avoid having to go to the landfill at all. So you have assets that you might be able to sell. You have assets you can donate to a charity. If you can do that. You have assets that go to an e-waste vendor because of their particular criteria that makes them e-waste. So you do the best you can. Which is a big part of, asset tracking of accounting for how you dispose of assets. How do you think sustainability and you think going forward, okay, what is the University procuring that at the end of its life, it's not going to be, you know, having to be disposed of in the landfill. Is it made of something that can be recycled? Is it made of something that, you know, can be reused for a long time that is gonna have a good life to it. So there's a lot of thoughts that you can use, as the University moves forward to kind of, you know, follow that sustainability. So that's now become kind of a part of my thought process. And hopefully others in that process going forward as, the University grows, 00:26:30.164 --> 00:26:33.964 Which means you collaborate a lot with the recycling program that Carl Hanson kind of-- 00:26:33.964 --> 00:26:34.650 Correct. Yeah, exactly. 00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:44.000 --Spearheaded. And you have to think, not just something's come in or I have to make sure I know where it is, but what's gonna happen to it over a long run. So there's a lot of planning and forethought going into this as well. 00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:30.000 Correct. Exactly. And, we now have a department on campus called, Sustainability. It's part of, sustain,--well, what we used to call, Risk Management. They're in that department. So we work a lot with them to say, going forward, you know, how are we gonna be sustainable in our dispositions? That kind of a thing. So they have a good Sustainability Committee on this campus. They put forward a policy that the University's now been following, and I've been--I believe it's been approved by the President. So, that's a step in the right direction also. So working with them, and again, like you say, the recycling program, under Energy Management, which is now a part of, Facilities Management. So-- 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:35.674 yeah, we have shifted things from department to department to division to division. And, well. 00:27:35.674 --> 00:27:42.434 When you have a brand new campus, a lot of things are gonna change over time and it's exciting to watch those happen. 00:27:42.434 --> 00:27:45.045 Yeah. So any other projects. 00:27:45.045 --> 00:28:54.984 Well definitely have watched procurement change and implement system-wide power of purchasing to bring in our office vendors like, OfficeMax and Staples that we have. So that the unit that the CSU is now again using their purchasing power to try and save money. Certainly makes it better than the central stores that we used to have. So that transition's been good. Of course, as we procure things. Now, of course we've seen procurement go into the credit card business, so Pro Card (procurement card) is happening. But, that kind of implements a new level of asset tracking because now you have to track pro card purchases. Because again, it's the technology of our new world. You know, that's the way to procure. Now all of a sudden you've got Amazon being used significantly, and that's a major development that we have to look at to make sure we're able to account for those kind of packages as they come in. So, the technology is changing and it brings new challenges. Those are always exciting to work with. 00:28:54.984 --> 00:29:08.285 And my impression, since I don't do--I don't order supplies, I don't do any of that stuff anymore, is that the Pro Card and Amazon are generally the smaller ticket items, which means a lot of little stuff coming in. 00:29:08.285 --> 00:29:46.434 Right. And you have to look at those Amazon packages and go, well, okay, yeah, someone can be using the university credit card to buy things and they're getting their packages, but how do we know they're not using their personal credit cards, buying things that they have come into their office through Amazon, you know, how can we in receiving look at those and say, what's a personal package and what's a University business related package? There's no way to tell anymore. So that, that leads to challenges that, you know, we're looking at. And hopefully, we'll come up with a process to check those, so yeah. Other than the end user, which might really be the only genuine way to do it. 00:29:46.434 --> 00:30:00.724 Yeah. And we already have so much workload, but people are here so much all the time. It's kind of like, well, I'd rather have it delivered at my work because I know it's gonna be secure, as opposed to, you know, being left on my doorstep at home and not be there when I get home and stuff. 00:30:00.724 --> 00:30:11.994 Right. Yeah and it doesn't help that the news focuses on look at the thieves taking these packages from this poor person's porch. So, yeah, so there's a challenge right there. 00:30:11.994 --> 00:30:18.065 Just to complicate issues. What campus events are most remarkable in your memory? 00:30:18.065 --> 00:31:07.184 Oh, gosh. The dedication of any new building was always something new because it just showed how fast we were growing and, becoming more focused in our community as we grow, because we're certainly putting a greater thumbprint on our local area. So each time a new building came on, it just showed that, you know, the campus is just becoming more and more of a fixture here in North County. The Kellogg Library was a huge addition because of course, it freed up a lot of space in Craven Hall and enabled the Library to actually be a functioning department that it was meant to be all along. And, was, I'm sure that was great. It was a great project for Marian Reid, and, I'm sure it was the feather in her hat, and it was --that was a great moment in it-- 00:31:07.184 --> 00:31:12.005 It was a delight to get rid of those horrible old hand me down copiers from SDSU. 00:31:12.005 --> 00:31:25.805 Yeah, there you go. Yes. And microfiche readers and all those things that were there at the time. And, of course it made for, you know, much more securing the library to make sure, you know, your archives were good too. Yeah. All your books. 00:31:25.805 --> 00:31:28.684 And a multitude of access points in the new building. 00:31:28.684 --> 00:32:27.755 Exactly. So Library was big. Gosh, just as new programs came on, whether it was, you know, we didn't have a physics program. Visual and performing arts came on, you know, all those different programs as we grew, of course, as we started, we only had upper division. Then all of a sudden we had freshmen and sophomores were coming in so we were a full four year college, which was notable. Again, building a parking structure, it's like, whoa, we are getting big. That kind of a thing. Sports came in, where we had nothing for a long time. All of a sudden, look, we have a memorable and notable coach. Steve Scott is coming. He's bringing a track program, and then all of a sudden we have golf, and then it's like, well, look at this. We're now--we're playing basketball and baseball and, getting big, you know, down the line who knows? I don't know if we'd get football, but, eh (inaudible). 00:32:27.755 --> 00:32:32.265 Well, we are-- they are retiring the first Crash, the Cougar costume. 00:32:32.265 --> 00:32:32.964 Oh, okay. 00:32:32.964 --> 00:32:35.881 And it's coming to the archives. 00:32:35.881 --> 00:32:36.714 Oh, neat. 00:32:36.714 --> 00:32:41.285 And they said it's an off-the-shelf costume, so we're having a custom design costume the second time around so-- 00:32:41.285 --> 00:32:42.884 Oh, okay. Well that's gonna be neat 00:32:42.884 --> 00:32:49.394 That shows they're growing up, too, but, yeah. I wish we'd been able to get an oral history from Debbie Dale about her years with the Athletics. 00:32:49.394 --> 00:32:51.964 Oh, absolutely. In the early days. Yeah. 00:32:51.964 --> 00:32:57.565 Because I know she mentioned to me one time that the athletes used to change in her office because there was no place else. 00:32:57.565 --> 00:34:03.644 Oh, look at that. That's a great--that's a great piece of history right there. Yeah. So things like that. So, just watching the University grow, of course, we've had some of the great challenges that are somewhat memorable. Like, the fires that have gone through were always memorable. They would have to send us home or, something like that. Very scary times. But again, the university's been very blessed that we haven't really been affected by that luckily. Of course, I remember 9/11 (2001) coming to work the day that happened, and then the University sent us home, things like that. And, other events like that. But, again, usually focus on all the memorable things. Of course, we had commencements down at Del Mar for a long time when the students would graduate, and it's like, how many did we graduate? It's like, wow. And then now we're back on campus because we have our athletic fields and things. So, that was exciting. The building of the McMahon House was kind of neat, because it's like, well, they were looking at building something there for a long time and it finally happened, and it's like-- came out very nice. 00:34:03.644 --> 00:34:08.545 I remember the big piles of compost that used to be down there, along that front corner. 00:34:08.545 --> 00:35:41.925 Oh, down there. Yeah. And now that's, it's all been cordoned off as an environmental area of some kind. So that's interesting there. We'll have to see how the University expands in that direction, if anything will change in that regard. Of course, remember the early days just watching some of the springs and waters that would come up out of the ground and flow off in that direction. And, I believe now the university is getting groundwater to help with some of our irrigation. There's some wells that are coming in from further up, La Marea (Carlsbad, California), I believe that flow onto our property. So we're tapping into that to, for irrigation now. So we're using some well water and trying to get very energy sufficient on our own. If we can do that. Solar panels have gone on some of the new buildings now, and they may further that, I know they're looking at--they have the fuel cell going. I don't know how successful that's been, but I'm sure they're gonna be looking at other energy changes as we move on. So, little things like that. They're in the background too. I believe, Procurement's finalizing, working with AT&T to partner with them for a cell tower, but that's gonna be a win-win for them and us, because it's gonna enable us to get some, new, very efficient and, well used, lighting for our baseball fields and any other expanding for sports in that direction too. So, that's something we'll look forward to. So again, all these changes keep happening and it's, good to see. 00:35:41.925 --> 00:35:47.525 Yeah. The side of the house you work on, you know about things that I had no idea. We were talking cell towers-- 00:35:47.525 --> 00:35:57.965 Yeah. Until they happen. Yeah. It has been a very, very long process. Because there's been a lot of issues with AT&T and getting permission from the Chancellor's office, that kind of thing is always something. 00:35:57.965 --> 00:36:03.244 Yeah. You get the state involved, you probably get all sorts of environmental agencies involved. You know, there's just. 00:36:03.244 --> 00:36:03.905 Yep. 00:36:03.905 --> 00:36:09.605 You know, and so many strictures about what we can accept. So it doesn't look like a bribe probably. 00:36:09.605 --> 00:36:15.285 Right. Exactly. Exactly. There's all that, legal-ease involved in that kind of a thing. And, of course, budgetary and logistics and, and all that. You know, what's it--what are we gonna get out of this? So, a lot of tough questions have to be asked. 00:36:15.285 --> 00:36:31.304 One thing I-- that crossed my mind while you've been talking is did you use email at San Diego State at all? 00:36:31.304 --> 00:37:18.445 No. In fact, when I left San Diego State, we were actually just in the early, days of using computers, we had gone through the whole transition of--remember typewriters, well, typewriters were a big thing when I was a student. And then, slowly transitioned into word processors. And then in the mid eighties (19080s) there, the first computers were coming into some of the student labs to use. And, they gradually made their way into our offices. Because being a support agency, we weren't always needing the technology. We had our old business practices. And, that change was a tough time coming. So really didn't start using email until I got to Cal State San Marcos here. And it--the first one was implemented and I think, Netscape was our first-- 00:37:18.445 --> 00:37:20.244 Or was it Eudora? I seem to remember. 00:37:20.244 --> 00:37:23.994 Well, Eudora was the email program. I think Netscape was our first. 00:37:23.994 --> 00:37:24.844 Browser system. 00:37:24.844 --> 00:37:36.445 Browser system, yeah. And then we eventually went to, Windows, of course. But, yeah, I think, I'm trying to remember what we were using for barcodes. It might have been Windows 95 back then, something like that. 00:37:36.445 --> 00:37:41.005 Yeah. And you're scampering out just in time to miss this whole move to SharePoint and OneDrive. 00:37:41.005 --> 00:38:04.635 Yeah. All that going on. So, exactly. So it's been fun to, to work with the new technology and, of course phones are in now, and I'm sure there's, a lot of adjustment to our Millennials coming in that are, only familiar with, you know, telephones and things. So, that technology is something I'm sure they're using. 00:38:04.635 --> 00:38:08.885 They're using equipment and media. Their expectations are so very different than-- 00:38:08.885 --> 00:38:10.364 Yeah, esactly. 00:38:10.364 --> 00:38:12.875 Who've been there through all of this growth and development. 00:38:12.875 --> 00:38:30.965 Yeah. It's been fascinating. So, it'll be, fun to watch and change as I keep contact with the University through the Retirees Association to kind of talk to people to see how things are changing in the education business. So, it'll be fascinating to watch. 00:38:30.965 --> 00:38:38.144 Yeah. I did wanna ask what your plans were for retirement. And it sounds like you're gonna be active in the Retirees Association which-- 00:38:38.144 --> 00:38:39.244 Yes. In fact-- 00:38:39.244 --> 00:38:41.875 I see their newsletter and they do lots of great stuff. So-- 00:38:41.875 --> 00:39:24.744 Yeah. I've been to a couple of their meetings and one neat thing that they advise, they say, well, when you first jump into retirement, you know, don't jump too hard, too fast into like, another part-time job or volunteering or something. But, for someone in, say, a type A personality, which is more like me, it's like, it's gonna be hard to just spend six months chilling, as they say, to transition into retirement. But, you know, that's good advice. So, can certainly do a blend of that. There'll be plenty of things around the house for me to work on and catch up on. I would love to do more traveling. I've got a grandson now. So I'll be definitely spending time with him. 00:39:24.744 --> 00:39:26.566 How old is he? 00:39:26.566 --> 00:40:12.824 He's 13 months. And just a joy. We're-- my wife's been retired for a couple of years, and she's babysitting him two and a half days a week. Because my daughter went to work-- back to work part-time after he was born. And, so we're helping her out by babysitting. So I'm sure I'll be helping with that. And--but I would love to do some more backpacking. I love going up to the Sierras and hiking. I've summited Mount Whitney nine times now. My goal is to get my grandson up to the top. And that would mean four generations have actually summited Mount Whitney, because my parents did it and took me up when I was very young. And then, of course, both my brothers and I summited and two of my daughters have now summited. And I would look forward to seeing if I can get my grandson up. 00:40:12.824 --> 00:40:14.153 That's a wonderful goal. I'm sure you will! 00:40:14.153 --> 00:40:15.335 That would be would be neat. 00:40:15.335 --> 00:40:36.676 Thank you. So, you know, I've talked to a lot of people that have retired and they say, I don't know how I had time to work. I'm so busy. So we'll just see how it goes. But, I'm a little anxious of course, because I've had this wonderful family here at Cal State San Marcos for over 24 years. And, it'll be kind of hard to step away from that. So-- 00:40:36.676 --> 00:40:41.048 Well, the retirees will certainly be a transition. Because that's part of the family. 00:40:41.048 --> 00:40:54.164 Yeah, absolutely. That'll definitely help. So I'm looking forward to that. And, I do see some things they do, and they do look like they're a lot of fun. And to touch base with previous employ--employees who have been here will be a lot of fun. 00:40:54.164 --> 00:40:55.394 And swap those stories. 00:40:55.394 --> 00:41:05.155 Exactly. Exactly. So, that'll--I'm looking forward to that. So, we'll just transition in gently and see how it goes. 00:41:05.155 --> 00:41:08.724 Well, since your wife is already retired, it sounds like she'll be able to help you transition as well. 00:41:08.724 --> 00:41:12.085 Absolutely. I'm sure she'll have a "honey-do" list for me. 00:41:12.085 --> 00:41:52.585 Yeah. What free time? Yeah, I think the same way. I just --I think that all sounds so wonderful, and this is--you have reminded me of some things--and I forgot about Central Stores. I mean, I forgot that that's how we used to order things. And then the whole decentralization where, you know,--because it used to be, back in the old days at Jerome's where you needed something done, you just grabbed whoever was available and they came over and did it. Now it's fill out forms, get permission. Plot everything. Track everything. And so it has been a big change, but we--it's a sign of our maturity. It's not a negative, it's just a sign of our maturity. 00:41:52.585 --> 00:42:02.195 It absolutely is. So, yes, there's always challenges going forward, but, so far we're doing very well. And I look forward to the University continuing that path. 00:42:02.195 --> 00:42:08.224 Yeah. And so how much do you have to do with the (inaudible) building to refer to it by its old name? 00:42:08.224 --> 00:42:10.284 Oh, the one that's being built now? 00:42:10.284 --> 00:42:11.485 No, with the, existing-- 00:42:11.485 --> 00:42:12.445 Oh, the old Foundation (CSUSM Foundation)-- 00:42:12.445 --> 00:42:14.445 You know, where we had the Library collection stored for a while. 00:42:14.445 --> 00:42:20.644 Yes. In fact, I had some pictures of that. I might still have, of the collection that was over there because 00:42:20.644 --> 00:42:22.074 Oh, that'd be fun. 00:42:22.074 --> 00:43:50.545 I'll send them over to you if I can--if I can find them. I hopefully, well, I hope I haven't deleted 'em. But anyway, that was an interesting building because, as the University has grown, of course, in the early days it was--it seemed like we were almost required or mandated that we had to buy Prison Industries furniture. So every year we would expect, okay, we're gonna have another 20 faculty, so we'll need to order 20 more Prison Industries desks, and 20 more--or for each faculty three more bookcases. And a couple of file cabinets. And a chair. And a lot of this was, from Prison Industries. Everything was standalone. And as the University has matured and aged, all that thought process has gone away, and now we've just entered Cubicle World. So it is been very change--much of a change. So as each new building's come online and people have moved as desks and those old pieces of furniture have gone away, we needed a place to put them. And that's what we always used, was that old Foundation building. And it became a challenge to dispose of all that kind of equipment. So we finally were able to find charities that would take those, whether it be Goodwill or we found a very excellent, charity from Mexico that supplies schools and classrooms and libraries down in, the Tijuana area with some of our old furniture that's still usable. We can't use it. Sometimes it's very hard to donate or sell furniture. 00:43:50.545 --> 00:43:52.324 We have regulations within the state system that really restrict what you can do. 00:43:52.324 --> 00:43:59.217 Right. You wanna account for, again, your disposition. So, that's why we were able to find charities to take these and made the process a lot easier. 00:43:59.217 --> 00:44:01.371 That's wonderful. 00:44:01.371 --> 00:44:50.394 So, that building now, after these many, many, many years, looks like it's going to be--we're gonna give up the lease on that. So the admin offices upstairs will come over to campus or into the new Extended Learning building, depending on how all that pans out. And, as far as the warehouse space, that's something University's gonna have to kinda figure out to see how we're gonna work on, you know, moving out, pieces of furniture as they become access. So again, that's part of something we're working on with our Sustainability group, with the Recycling group. And, it's gonna be a little bit of a challenge. So, space is something the University has always struggled with. So, this will be another a little example of how we can adjust to that challenge. 00:44:50.394 --> 00:45:08.695 Yeah. Well, I have to say, the last time I was over at the Foundation slash (inaudible) building, it seemed like there was a lot less down in the Land of Misfit Furniture as I called it. So it shows that you've been very effective in weeding things out and getting them moved through. But yeah, there will always be a need for some sort of holding space. 00:45:08.695 --> 00:45:55.744 Space holding space, right. Staging area. Yeah. And in fact, kudos to, Planning, Design and Construction (PDC) who have really sort of stepped up and taken the lead in finding ways to reuse a lot of that surplus furniture on campus because now we're getting more and more of the cubicle surplus. So as departments sometimes can expand or need extra space, they can refurbish and reuse some of the cubicle furniture that's there. That Prison Industries furniture is kind of finally--there's not much of it left out there. So really PDC has stepped up and has really done very well in reusing a lot of that. They're kind of continuing that. So I've sort of stepped away from that part of it as they've stepped in. 00:45:55.744 --> 00:46:04.664 And the Prison Industry furniture was never ergonomically appropriate, which is something that campus has really been placing a focus on very wisely. 00:46:04.664 --> 00:46:08.545 Wisely. Very important. And it was also very heavy. 00:46:08.545 --> 00:46:29.264 Oh, I remember one time my--the desk, because I still have a Prison Industries desk in my office. And I cannot remember his name, but he was a very-- he was a shorter, very stocky built man. And he was underneath the desk and he just kind of got on all fours and then arched his back to push the desk up. And I was just like, oh. 00:46:29.264 --> 00:46:30.704 Oh, that might've been Eli. 00:46:30.704 --> 00:46:35.525 No, it wasn't Eli. I know Eli hurt his back and ended up going over to Parking Services. 00:46:35.525 --> 00:46:36.125 Went over to Parking. 00:46:36.125 --> 00:46:51.114 But, no, this-- Bobby, maybe his name was? I really don't remember. It's been a lot of years. I mean, I've been in the same office since we moved into the library. And that's--it's kinda like, gee, when I--when do I get a wall painted in my office or something? 00:46:51.114 --> 00:47:27.284 Yeah. Well that you've been in your space for that long is something unusual on this campus. Because so many people have moved so many times, I think there have been people that have moved 20 times just because of--a building comes online and so people move around and you have the whole domino effect. So you move from one place to another, to another, to another over the course of your history. And I may have actually set the record for actually been in the same office for the longest amount of time, in the building that I am. Although once I actually did move from downstairs to upstairs where I am now. But, I think I was 19 years in the exact same location. 00:47:27.284 --> 00:47:29.195 Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I don't quite make that. 00:47:29.195 --> 00:47:30.445 Yeah. I think-- 00:47:30.445 --> 00:48:14.505 I think all of my colleagues up on the third floor, with maybe the exception of one person have moved because there's an office down at the end that's not very desirable. It's kind of dark, odd shape. And so every time somebody shifts position, it's kind of this, okay, everybody's playing musical offices again and--My office is--it's fine. It serves my needs. So, really haven't gotten--I've moved the furniture around it a couple times. But not moved out of that office. But there are very few of us that are probably in the same location simply because of the, the numbers of buildings. All of a sudden you school or your unit, whatever you're in, has the whole thing's been moved over to another building, which you know, is great because you've expanded. You need that room. But yeah so-- 00:48:14.505 --> 00:48:17.763 But then you have to move all your stuff. 00:48:17.763 --> 00:48:18.000 A lot of people don't move outta choice. 00:48:18.000 --> 00:49:29.125 Yep. Exactly. Exactly. So that was kind of neat to stay in one place. Another thing I was thinking, one day, it's like, well, what is my legacy? And it's like, well, I certainly have a lot of history here, but it's like, I was thinking, it's like, well, in the business that I am, I'm very fortunate that I often get to go over to campus and meet people one-on-one because I'm either doing deliveries or maybe I'm doing inventory or tracking a piece of equipment. So you're out on campus and you're going from building to building. And it was the same thing I was doing at San Diego State. I spent many years doing central stores deliveries down there, shipping and receiving deliveries. So I'd be out on campus quite a bit, and I was thinking, it's like, wow, I might be the only person in CSU history that may have used almost every bathroom on two different campuses. It's like, ah, okay. There's a little bit of trivial information. So it's like, of course then San Diego State has changed immensely since I left. But, at the time, you know, I could say it's like, no, that's an interesting little fact. You know, when you're out and about, you know-- 00:49:29.125 --> 00:49:30.764 That's a wonderful trivia question. 00:49:30.764 --> 00:49:39.204 It's like, yes, it might be--my best legacy right there. 00:49:39.204 --> 00:49:48.875 No you've certainly made an impact on the campus and certainly facilitated a lot of the growth and a lot of the changes we've been through. And like I say, always done it with a smile, but.-- 00:49:48.875 --> 00:49:51.724 Well thank you. I appreciate that. 00:49:51.724 --> 00:49:54.074 Having been in nearly every bathroom-- 00:49:54.074 --> 00:51:03.000 Some of 'em are very nice. Yeah. You know, I don't think I use the president's bathroom at San Diego State, but I did see ours here. That was a little trivia. And, you know, people talk about, serving the campus community and you know, they usually talk about the amount of time that they spent, someone was here for 25 years. I had 24 and a half, 37 in this system. But you never really think about how many miles did you spend working for the CSU driving to work? Okay. How much money over your long tenure, if you are blessed enough to have a long tenure, did you spend on gasoline going to work? And most people don't think about that. Well, when you're in the fixed asset business, you deal a lot with numbers. You have, barcode numbers that you place on equipment. That piece of equipment has a serial number, it has a model number, it has a dollar value, it has a building number location, it has a room number location. There's a lot of numbers. There's-- 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:05.000 And you just have quantities. 00:51:05.000 --> 00:52:17.000 Correct. So I got to thinking, it's like, well, okay, my brain thinks in numbers a lot. It's like, you know, I'm gonna really do quickly, I'm just gonna do the math. Because having lived in San Diego and working at San Diego State, well that was a short commute. But when I had to start traveling to San Marcos, all of a sudden I became a commuter and I was putting on a lot of miles. So I thought, well, how many miles did I put on driving like five different cars that I had in the course of my time here, 24 and a half years, how many miles did I drive? And I thought, well, okay, this is gonna be a little bit of fun math because you have to figure out a lot of different factors involved, right? So I figured, okay, 365 days in a year, but working days are only about 260 because you have your weekends, right? Well then you'd subtract from the 260 working days, the holidays, well, there's about 15 that come off. And then you figure out, okay, over time you accrued more vacation as you worked, you started with two weeks, you ended up with about five weeks. so I kind of rounded it off. Did some calculations and figured on average we work around 200 days a year. 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.000 Right. I think it's between 200 - 220, depending-- 00:52:19.000 --> 00:53:29.525 Something. Sort of again, depending on vacation and, and how much sick leave you use. I looked at kind of my sick leave, 'cause I used to track it and I--most of my time off was like appointments. So you'd go to work, but you'd leave to go to your appointment and actual days I was actually sick, luckily, knock on wood, I was very healthy and didn't take too many days. So I subtracted that too. And again, it came out to around 200. So, for like the first, 16 years or something like that, I--my round trip to work was about 60 miles and then I moved once and it became maybe 55 'cause I didn't move too far. So I put that all in. And to make a long story short, I calculated that I drove to San Marcos about 286,000 miles. Back and forth over the course of my 24 and a half years. And figuring the price of gas somewhere, maybe averaging around $2 a gallon, I think it ended up like $23,000 worth of gas just driving to work. And it's amazing, you think about that, how far, I mean, people probably come from Temecula and may have put on even more miles. And they had the commute to San Diego State that might been another 30,000 miles. And another $3,000 worth of gas or something like that. 00:53:29.525 --> 00:53:30.364 Yeah. You are a numbers man. 00:53:30.364 --> 00:53:38.724 So it's definitely numbers, but it's just fascinating to think how many miles you put on. It's like 286, somewhere around there, thousand miles. Close to 300,000. 00:53:38.724 --> 00:53:40.795 Wow. No wonder you went through so many cars. 00:53:40.795 --> 00:53:44.324 Exactly. 00:53:44.324 --> 00:53:58.474 Yeah. But that also says something about our, our commuting system here. In San Diego still is not adequate to serve the needs of people. It's gotten better over the years. I mean, we've gotten the sprinter, we've gotten the coaster, things like that-- 00:53:58.474 --> 00:54:21.844 It's great for the students to be able to do that. The ones that either live here or can commute by using the Sprinter. And, I know our, our Parking Services tries to get the commuter information out to everybody. To have them take advantage of that whenever they can. But, yeah, we don't realize how much time we spend behind the wheel when we come to our jobs. So, it's fascinating to kinda look at that. 00:54:21.844 --> 00:54:24.565 Oh my gosh. 00:54:24.565 --> 00:54:25.514 A little trivia. 00:54:25.514 --> 00:54:26.844 Yeah. 00:54:26.844 --> 00:54:27.235 Absolutely. 00:54:27.235 --> 00:54:35.206 Well, at that point I will bring this interview to a close. I wanna thank you, Jim. That's been absolutely phenomenal. Just so much fun. 00:54:35.206 --> 00:54:36.706 Thank you, Judith. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en audio Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection.
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Carr, Jim. Interview, September 26, 2017
Description
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Jim Carr spent 23 years at California State University San Marcos working for the Distribution Services team and was instrumental in implementing the first barcoded inventory tracking system for the University. Jim discusses his time working for CSUSM as part of Distribution Services and how his education and background led to him this job.
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SC027-091
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2017-09-16
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audio
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Barcoding
Distribution Services
California State University San Marcos
Fixed asset tracking
San Diego State University
Sustainability
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San Diego (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
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Jim Carr
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<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a>