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California State University San Marcos University Library
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
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Michael De Maria
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Chanel Bradley
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=BradleyChanel_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-14.xml
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RED Campaign;Social Justice Summits;Cross-Cultural Center peer mentorship
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5.4 Bradley, Chanel. Interview April 14th, 2023. SC027-35 01:12:01 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection Campus oral histories CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center Education, Higher Human rights Civil rights Civil rights demonstrations -- California -- San Marcos RED Campaign ; Social Justice Summits ; Cross-Cultural Center peer mentorship Chanel Bradley Michael De Maria BradleyChanel_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-14.mp4 1:|11(3)|19(12)|31(6)|39(13)|49(3)|56(13)|63(2)|75(13)|88(9)|99(1)|108(5)|116(13)|129(12)|136(17)|147(10)|157(2)|167(15)|181(5)|193(7)|204(14)|217(11)|228(3)|240(7)|252(2)|262(13)|273(11)|285(3)|297(5)|308(7)|322(2)|329(14)|341(2)|352(11)|364(12)|375(10)|386(17)|397(8)|409(4)|420(6)|432(3)|440(10)|450(10)|460(5)|473(8)|485(5)|493(12)|502(3)|511(12)|521(2)|531(8)|540(5)|550(6)|563(3)|576(15)|588(2)|600(5)|611(2)|619(6)|633(2)|644(11)|654(14)|665(9)|679(11)|693(19)|704(9)|720(3)|730(8)|741(12)|750(11)|760(9)|771(11)|798(3)|800(1) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/d4ea6df2420ccf154c84a6af1258992a.mp4 Other video 0 Interview Introduction Michael De Maria interviews Chanel Bradley in regards to her background and experience at California State University San Marcos. 0 24 Childhood Bradley discusses growing up in a predominately white community in Orange County and how she formed community there. 0 152 Choosing to attend CSUSM and get involved in Cross-Cultural Center (CCC) Bradley's parents wanted her close to home so she chose to attend CSUSM and live in the dorms. She originally attended the CCC due to all of its free resources but soon enjoyed the diverse community it created. Bradley soon began volunteering due to obtaining a misdemeanor but eventually applied as a peer educator at the center a few years later. Sara Sheikh ; Social Justice Summit ; multi-ethnic 0 458 First Social Justice Summit Experience/ Finding Her Voice Bradley discusses how as growing up she would often suppress her identity as a person of color to fit in. By attending the Social Justice Summit it gave her ways to express herself and to feel empowered within her identity. empowered ; Social Justice Summit 0 736 Using Her Creativity to Drive the CCC Bradley discusses how her creative nature was able to be put into practice at the CCC. She used games and slogans to help educate and encourage students to find their power. power ; impactful ; peer mentorship 0 1124 Staff Relationship/ Developing leadership skills Bradley explains how supervisors and staff at the CCC had a close connection due to cultural similarities and beliefs. She explains how when there was a change in management at the CCC, Bradley became the one that guided the new supervisor. This helped her to gain leadership skills and relationship skills as well. leadership ; leader ; relationships ; mentor ; Floyd Lai 0 1640 Creating a Welcoming Space Bradley explains how her favorite memory was being able to create an ambiance that made students feel represented and safe. welcoming ; ambiance ; atmosphere ; guidance 0 1760 Reviving Black Student Union Bradley discusses how she revived the Black Student Union after its inactivity. She explains how her experience with the CCC provided her with resources and knowledge to begin an organization. She fixed the bylaws, encouraged protests, and recruited members for the board. protests ; BSU ; organization ; Black Student Union 0 2364 The role of the Cross-Cultural Center Bradley explains how the Cross-Cultural Center aids various organizations on campus by equipping, empowering, and helping with self expression and representation. empower ; equip ; educate ; represent 0 2674 Impact of the Cross-Cultural Center/ Finding the Courage Bradley explains how the Cross-Cultural Center opened her eyes up and helped her mature politically and socially. It gave her the passion to speak up and educate others about social issues that are often suppressed. politics ; serve 0 3045 Current Direction of the Cross-Cultural Center Bradley explains how the growth of our campus should also be focused and centered on the students needs. either being socially, politically or financially focused. She talks about how professors should remain personable and bring current situations into the curriculum. activism ; identity ; allyship ; protesting 0 3387 Underrepresented Communities on Campus Bradley discusses how the undocumented experience becomes adjacent to the Chicano student movement. She recalls the Et Cetera club, a student organization that created space for those who may not identify with other organizations at that time. undocumented ; under represented ; duality ; Et Cetera club 0 3616 Lessons Learned From Cross-Cultural Center Bradley was taught that not only she had power and leadership potential but how to use it as well. She exercised her power by speaking up against a paper writing false claims towards minority groups. She also discusses how she learned to recharge as an affective leader. power ; protest ; minority ; self preserve 0 3965 How to Practice Your Voice Bradley explains how one should educate themselves, and get involved in social groups that represent them as a minority. To stand up for what one believes in and to not let a box or label define you. 0 Chanel Bradley is a California State University San Marcos alumni. She graduated with her degree in Women's and Gender Studies in 2012. Chanel worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2012 and was involved in various social identity related centers on campus. In this interview, Chanel discusses her experience as a peer mentor at the Cross-Cultural Center and her recollections of the center during her time at CSUSM. Bradley was also involved in the Women's Center [now Gender Equity Center]. In her interview, Bradley also recalls how she revived the campus Black Student Union, protested the campus (unauthorized) student newspaper, The Koala, and came into her power. Michael De Maria: My name is Michael De Maria. I’m a graduate research assistant
 ; with Kellogg Library, I'm here today with Chanel Bradley discussing her
 ; involvement in the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM (California State University
 ; San Marcos), as well as the Black Student Union. So to kick things off, Chanel,
 ; I just wanted to ask about your background. I want you to talk about the
 ; community that you grew up in and kind of describe what that was like.
 ; 
 ; Chanel Bradley: I grew up in Orange County. I was raised by a single parent, so
 ; I moved a lot. And like for example, in high school, I went to two different
 ; high schools (laughs). If you don't know about Orange County, it's like
 ; predominantly a white
 ; 
 ; county. And we lived in a predominantly white area, so I was normally like one
 ; of few that looked like myself. And so I kind of quickly learned what it was
 ; like to be, other, and found myself kind of like congregating with other others,
 ; (laughs). And that sort of became my community. Typically, I would spend my time
 ; with like Latino and like Black students and like even at my church, like, I
 ; went to Saddleback until I was about sixteen. I was in the choir, and my
 ; grandmother was the choir director. And Saddleback is like a megachurch in
 ; 
 ; Orange County. So she was kind of like a local celebrity (laughs). So like
 ; people would know, like, about our family or about her. And so there was a lot
 ; of, of colorful acquaintances. But I would say the people that I felt kind of
 ; most comfortable with how to share like cultural experience.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: I see. And going forward from there, what led you to attend CSU San
 ; Marcos and get involved with the CCC (Cross-Cultural Center)?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So I was originally gonna go to a school in Florida. And my dad, he
 ; didn't want me to leave the state (laughs), so it was more of a forced choice.
 ; And so, I applied to other
 ; 
 ; colleges and universities in the state. And I think we ended up picking Cal
 ; State (San Marcos) because, of the distance, I think at the time he was living
 ; in, Rancho Santa Margarita. And so, it was very easy to kind of like go home on
 ; like weekends or something like that. But I actually ended up living in the
 ; dorms and so I didn't go home too often, but I started going to the
 ; Cross-Cultural Center (laughs), as most college students' motivation is free
 ; things (laughs). So the Cross-Cultural Center had free food. And so, my friends
 ; 
 ; and I were always like trying to find the next thing that had free food. So I
 ; went to an event, I don't even remember what the event was called. And they had
 ; so many like student services, like I could print for free. You know, they had
 ; books that I could borrow for classes if I needed to. And, I think for me being
 ; multi-ethnic, like I don't really fit into a particular box. And so it was nice
 ; to go to a place where like, oh, I can like get like, you know, experiences from
 ; all walks of life. So, I think that's kind of what--why I kept coming back.
 ; 
 ; And then I
 ; 
 ; served on the committee. What did I do? (whispers) It's, it's, it's like what,
 ; almost 20 years (laughs) ago, so I have to kind of like think about it. But, I
 ; remember either like going to the Cross-Cultural Center director (laughs). I, I
 ; was a very adventurous college student, so I got into some trouble. I ended up
 ; (laughs) being convicted of a misdemeanor and my last semester of my freshman
 ; year, I couldn't finish my exams because I was waiting for trial. So,
 ; 
 ; I think what had happened was I ended up volunteering so that I could gain work
 ; experience after that incident that I had. And so, I believe Sara Sheikh had
 ; suggested that I assist her with the Social Justice Summit. And so I created
 ; some of the marketing material for it. And then, I believe, maybe a year or so
 ; after that, I ended up participating on the committee again. And I believe that
 ; same year,
 ; 
 ; might have been the same year or maybe, you know, few years after I applied to
 ; be a peer educator for the center. So that was kind of like the beginnings of
 ; involvement (laughs) with the Cross-Cultural Center.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Got it. So, it sounds like the CCC just provided a positive space for
 ; you to inhabit and kind of rebuild some elements of your life after that
 ; incident. Which I think is super, super cool. Regarding the projects that you
 ; worked on, I'd love to hear more about the Social Justice Summit, since you were
 ; involved in the very first one (Bradley laughs). So, if you could just take me
 ; through your experience with that, and just, you know, what, what it was like,
 ; what was discussed, and just giving me an image of what all occurred.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So, I think I remember what happened. I ended up, attending the first
 ; Social Justice Summit, as a participant. And I, (laughs) yeah, that's what
 ; happened. I remember. Okay. (laughs) I feel like as I'm talking, I'm remembering
 ; the timeline. So (laughs), pardon me if I'm like having to go back into the, the
 ; files of my brain.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: No, that's, that's good (both Laugh).
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah, so I, I was a participant. I attended the retreat with my
 ; boyfriend at the time. And--I would say I've always been like a fairly
 ; consciously aware person like, you know, growing up in a predominantly white
 ; area, and like knowing that I was not white,
 ; 
 ; was something that I knew. But I think as you--or at least as I grew up, you
 ; kind of learn how to adapt in those environments. And so, things that are
 ; probably like triggering or, you know, maybe the, not the most like PC thing to
 ; say, I would kind of say to fit in or whatever I was doing at the time. So when
 ; I went to the Social Justice Summit, it was really eye-opening ’cause they were
 ; talking about, like, individual identity. They were talking about oppression and
 ; marginalization, which again, like I knew, but I didn't know that it existed, in
 ; like different intersects.
 ; 
 ; And--they
 ; 
 ; also talked about like allyship. So I met a lot of people there that I still
 ; talk to today. Yeah, that's, that's how I started. And then I think after that,
 ; that's when I was on the committee, the planning committee. And I did the
 ; marketing and I pretty much just kept continuing to participate with the Social
 ; Justice Summit because it was very impactful for me. I think it helped build my
 ; activism, if you will. It gave me...language to talk about my experiences. It
 ; gave me like, curriculum to teach other people about how to start their journey
 ; or like continue their journey
 ; 
 ; or, you know, come back from taking a rest (laughs) if you will. It exposed me
 ; to like a lot of things that were happening on campus, that were unjust. And I,
 ; because I had those experiences I felt empowered enough to not just let them
 ; happen, but to like speak about them. I developed like lifelong mentors from
 ; that summit. I think, if I'm not mistaken, I probably went to like three or four
 ; of them. The first one being a participant and the others I was on the
 ; committee. And then the, the last one, I ended up--I was a co-facilitator,
 ; 
 ; so.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Got it. Very, very cool. And I previously interviewed Sara Sheikh, so
 ; she was able to also walk me through, a bit of that experience, but that's
 ; awesome hearing your perspective. And then regarding some of the projects that
 ; you did for the CCC, you've previously been described by your peers as someone
 ; who always got incredible results, but thought outside the box and didn't
 ; necessarily play by the rules to achieve those results. So I was just curious in
 ; your own words if you had an instance of a project or an objective you achieved
 ; where you didn't necessarily play by the rules.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: That's funny. (laughs) I've always been like a really creative person.
 ; 
 ; So--I... I like to see kind of like, what is the baseline? And I'm like, “okay,
 ; what, what more can we do from here?” So, we had an event called Cafe La Paz,
 ; and it was essentially a way to talk about, different cultural backgrounds and
 ; experiences, in an interactive way. And then I believe we served food (laughs).
 ; I think all our events we serve food, that's how you get students (laughs), make
 ; sure you get a Costco pizza and, and all the desserts and then you will have students.
 ; 
 ; But yeah, so we had to work with, or we were tasked to work with the other
 ; centers, so the Women's Center (now Gender Equity Center) and the LGBT Pride
 ; Center, LGBTQIA, Pride Center (laughs).
 ; 
 ; And so, I don't remember like the actual identities that we had to talk about,
 ; but it was like two or three of them, and we had to find a way to kind of put
 ; them together. And, I like to do things where people aren't just like listening
 ; to a lecture or watching a movie. I feel like it's, like it works if it's like
 ; twenty minutes or something that's short. Like when you get people to move and
 ; talk and engage with each other, I feel like that's
 ; 
 ; more impactful to their learning process. So I honestly don't remember the game
 ; or what it's called. Oh, yes, I do (laughs). So, it's a game, called mafia and,
 ; it basically simulates this like inner and outer group and then, like people who
 ; reinforce the system and then, people who are trying to change the system.
 ; 
 ; And so, I found a way to talk about experiences in the community or in
 ; classrooms and then incorporate this game that I played with other college
 ; students. So, I guess that's a way of being creative and thinking outside the
 ; box. I
 ; 
 ; know I definitely broke some rules as far as my attendance goes. (Be)cause my,
 ; my, punctuality then was not (laughs) not very good. So I guess that would
 ; probably be some ways that I, you know, was a little bit rebellious. But I would
 ; say for the most part it was just really my creativity that drove me to, think
 ; of things that weren't being done. So like, another example is like when we, I
 ; think this might have been--when was this? This might have been like the second
 ; or third social justice event that I was on the committee with.
 ; 
 ; And we were like, thinking of names to title it, or what have you. And
 ; 
 ; I'm very simple. Like I don't--I'm not really someone that wants like a word
 ; vomit of a title, like make it impactful, how can we say this in the fewest
 ; words possible? So I like, took--then they had the RED campaign (division of The
 ; ONE Campaign to end extreme poverty and preventable disease by 2030). I don't
 ; know if you remember that.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Um-hm
 ; 
 ; Bradley:It was a RED campaign for Apple or like, for HIV awareness, or something
 ; like that. And so in that campaign, they put brackets over the R and the E. So I
 ; found a way to like use the word power and then I put brackets around the word,
 ; the words W-E So it looks like, like we are the power that we, that we want to,
 ; like we have the power,
 ; 
 ; we the people have the power essentially. And so I remember making it, and it
 ; was like, the most simple one that I had ever done in all of the designs that I
 ; had created. And I believe that same year the registration, like was full by
 ; like the end of the day or like the next day. So that was really cool to kind of
 ; see how something so simple can intrigue people enough to want to join something
 ; that they probably wouldn't normally going to.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Absolutely. And it's super cool to hear about your art making such a
 ; tangible impact as well. Regarding the operation of the CCC again, through my
 ; research I've heard several people kind of cite the students as sort of like the
 ; lifeblood of the organization. The people who
 ; 
 ; affected change and essentially help those projects get off the ground. So I was
 ; just interested in hearing about what your relationships were like with other
 ; student staff as well as your superiors?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So my first two years, ’cause I think I was there for three years, it’s
 ; been three years, oh my gosh (laughs). My first couple of years. The person, did
 ; he, I think he, I think he was the one that referred for me to apply, or it was
 ; Sara (Sheikh). I don't exactly remember. But I have a friend who's like,
 ; essentially someone who I've been friends with since then, but his name is
 ; Gerardo Cabral or he goes by G now. But G, I met him at
 ; 
 ; that event that I said where I got the free pizza for the first time. I honestly
 ; didn't know that it was his event. He tells me later that it was, and I was
 ; like, he's like, “Yeah, I remember you coming in.” And (laughs) I don't even
 ; remember what I was saying, but I was like, extra, as the word that people would
 ; use then.
 ; 
 ; And so when I started working with him, him and I started to develop a closer
 ; relationship outside of work. He, I think at the time, like either my car wasn't
 ; working or like I had to walk to campus, and I was living off of campus, so he
 ; would pick me up like every day. ’cause I was, I wasn't too far from campus, but
 ; it was far enough where, like you didn't want to walk, because as everybody
 ; knows, Cal State San Marcos sits on a hill. So (laughs)
 ; 
 ; if you're walking from off campus, and it's already far enough, like you got
 ; (to) trek up, a mountainside to get there. And so--and this was before the
 ; (University) Student Union, because there were like ways that you can get up
 ; without using stairs that I figured out, but the easiest way is to take stairs.
 ; 
 ; But yeah, so became like really close to Gerardo and, I, I, I believe because of
 ; like the experience that I had with like the incident that I had my freshman
 ; year I really connected with Sara. She like has a very therapeutic presence. And
 ; as someone who like experienced trauma young and (laughs) very, very colorful
 ; past it was
 ; 
 ; comforting to have a supervisor that didn't really feel like a supervisor. Like
 ; she, you know, obviously was my supervisor, but it just felt different. I've
 ; never had a supervisor where I connected in that way. So when she left, it, it
 ; was a really big hole, like for the whole center because everyone loved her. I
 ; mean, they still love her, like I still love her. But like me and G especially
 ; were like basically mourning (laughs) her transition.
 ; 
 ; And I think that experience also brought us closer. I was in his wedding, like
 ; he's came to all of my graduations, I've gone to his. So we still talk to this
 ; day. And my experience with Floyd (Lai, the next director of the Cross-Cultural
 ; Center), because I was so connected with
 ; 
 ; Sara, was definitely rocky at first. I was so used to like a certain way, that
 ; things were, and then when Floyd came, he didn't necessarily disrupt everything
 ; and like change everything. We kind of kept most things, if not all. But I
 ; definitely was a little bit taken aback by having to deal with like, a, a power
 ; shift, if you will. But Floyd has always been super supportive. And at the time
 ; I was also involved in InterVarsity, InterVarsity is a Christian student group
 ; on campus.
 ; 
 ; I don't know if they're still there, but I had a mentor there who was telling
 ; me, he was like, “You have to be a leader.” Like a 360 leader. Sometimes you
 ; have to
 ; 
 ; lead the people that you are, that are supposed to lead you. Not to say that
 ; Floyd didn't lead me, it was just like, because he was a new person, he kind of
 ; came to me with like, “Okay, what information do you have? What knowledge do you
 ; have? Do you have background information about this event or that?” And so I
 ; kind of felt like I was in a way his little guide. And so that was new for me.
 ; I'd never been in a position where people are looking at me for answers. So I
 ; think it helped me develop my leadership skills as a result.
 ; 
 ; And also be able to reconcile relationships too. So, some of the other
 ; 
 ; like staff that I work with, I still touch base with every once in a while,
 ; but--like when was it? Was it the 25th anniversary? I don't remember. But there
 ; (laughs), there was a, what was it, third year? I don't remember. But I went to
 ; an event and I came back to campus after graduating and I ran into Allie Moreno,
 ; I think she has a different last name now, but Allie Moreno I also worked with.
 ; And she was there at the event, so I got to reconnect with her. Same thing with
 ; Diana (Salidvar).
 ; 
 ; I'm bad with names, so I apologize. Diana, I believe, is her name. I still like
 ; connect with her through social media, so I--it's, it's like, a
 ; 
 ; very unique time in your life when you're like, “I'm an adult,” but also like,
 ; you're still learning. You're still learning how to be an adult, you're still
 ; learning how to function in the world. You have to take care of yourself. Like,
 ; I had to, you know, get a job and I couldn't really rely on my parents to help
 ; me out of situations (laughs) if you will. So I had to learn how to be
 ; resourceful. And I think the Cross-Cultural Center gave me the resources among
 ; other, you know services that I used on campus to survive and thrive there.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah, absolutely. One comment on that, I will second Sara Sheikh's,
 ; therapeutic nature (both laugh). She's, she's definitely an incredible person.
 ; And, yeah, it
 ; 
 ; definitely sounds like when you were able to kind of inhabit that role as sort
 ; of like a guide for the others in the center, it sounds like you kind of reached
 ; a point of pride and were able to kind of reflect in your accomplishments and
 ; just some of the things that you had done. Which I also think is super cool. Now
 ; that I've kind of jogged your memory a little bit from those experiences, I want
 ; to know what your favorite memory of the Cross-Cultural Center is.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: (laughs) It's very simple. Like I--the, the one thing that my dad
 ; taught me was that you can change an atmosphere just by stepping into the room.
 ; And so I would be very big on atmosphere, or ambiance if you will. My friends
 ; and I call it am-Beyonce
 ; 
 ; (laughs), like, because Beyonce has that, that energy and aura to her too. And
 ; so what I would do when I would be working my shift is I would play music that I
 ; enjoyed, and then I would ask students like, “What do you wanna listen to?” So I
 ; would kind of like be a DJ, like a little bit (laughs). So I enjoyed just
 ; creating a welcoming space for them to come in. And I've had students--and in a
 ; way I sort of became like a therapist come to me like stressed out about
 ; something and they are looking for advice or guidance, or just like helping
 ; individuals who are coming in trying to figure out like, “Oh, what's this
 ; place?” (laughs) You know? So I think that was probably my favorite part of
 ; working at the Cult--Cross-Cultural Center, was just
 ; 
 ; creating that space for students.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Very cool. I definitely understand that impact of ambiance, so it's
 ; definitely nice that you were able to be a little selfless in a way and kind of
 ; provide that, that atmosphere like you mentioned. And shifting gears here, I
 ; know that you had a heavy involvement in the Black Student Union on campus as
 ; well. You're cited as being an individual who essentially revived that
 ; organization or had a very big hand in reviving it from inactivity. So just
 ; starting there, I want to know what that timeline looked like and how you got
 ; involved in that project as well.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So I was in BSU (Black Student Union) my freshman year, and it was
 ; pretty active
 ; 
 ; then. We had a good amount of members. They--I would say maybe a majority of
 ; them were like upperclassmen. And so, I think I also served on the board my
 ; second year and that's when the president Charey or Trey stepped down and then
 ; Raja stepped up. He had a lot of great ideas and he is a really good leader. I
 ; think it's just really hard when you're--like imagine having to be the next
 ; head, like performance after like Patti LaBelle (laughs). You're like “How do I top
 ; 
 ; that (laughs)?” So I think it was some of that that happened with Raja, but he
 ; did a really good job at getting a lot of the structural things that
 ; organizations need.
 ; 
 ; Like they need bylaws. They need to define their roles. They need recruitment
 ; efforts. They need to have like good soil to be able to grow. After Raja
 ; graduated, because he was also upper class, I think he ended up graduating
 ; before myself, maybe a couple years before me. So a lot of those upperclassmen
 ; that made up a lot of the BSU moved on. And so it was just like the
 ; underclassmen that kind of had to step up. I think there were like, if I'm not
 ; mistaken, a
 ; 
 ; couple of attempts where students tried to revive it and then it just became
 ; inactive. I don't know how long the inactive period was, but I think during that
 ; time I was doing a lot of on-campus like protests. I was doing a lot of things
 ; with the Cross-Cultural Center.
 ; 
 ; I was leading Bible studies. I was, also going to school, working, like I was
 ; doing a lot. And I think it was my Women's Studies professor, I think at the end
 ; of my like sophomore year and she was like, “What are you gonna do about BSU?”
 ; I'm like, “What do you mean (laughs)? Like, it's not my job (laughs).” And I
 ; think another Women's Studies professor was like, “You should try to
 ; 
 ; get that organization going again.” And I was like, “Okay” (laughs). I work with
 ; a lot of student organizations when I was a peer educator. So I'm like, okay, I
 ; see how they do things. I know all the background information. I know who to
 ; talk to at, Student Life and Leadership so that I can try to expedite things if
 ; I need to.
 ; 
 ; I know where to go with ASI (Associated Student Inc.) like being a student
 ; worker really exposes you to a lot of like the administrative side of a
 ; university. So I got to be able to experience that. So when I stepped into that
 ; role, I already had all those resources. And I knew a lot of students, so they
 ; knew who I was. And so when I started, I had enough
 ; 
 ; members to make the organization active, which I believe is three. You need a
 ; secretary, a vice (president) and a president. We talked extensively during the
 ; summer about like, who's going to take up what role, and what are we gonna do
 ; and how are we gonna do things? And kind of, things like that. I originally, I
 ; believe was just gonna be a vice president, another student wanted to be president.
 ; 
 ; And I'm like, I have no ties to any role. My only objective is to make this
 ; organization active again. And I think it was the week or two before classes
 ; started, both of them dropped out. And I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna
 ; do, but I'll figure this out because I'm resourceful. So,
 ; 
 ; I just started reaching out to every student that I knew. I'm like, you remember
 ; when BSU was like, and all this stuff? And just trying to--and even new
 ; students, I was like, “You look like a leader!” I was just heavy, heavy with my
 ; recruitment until I finally got two people to be in the role of vice president
 ; and treasurer. And then I was able to go to Josh at the time who was like
 ; overseeing student organizations. (laughs).
 ; 
 ; I'm like, okay, “I have all the paperwork (laughs), like can we be active now?”
 ; And then it was definitely really rocky. It was, it was really rocky, because at
 ; the time I was like, I'm just trying to get us back into a place where we
 ; 
 ; have presence on campus cause we're here, like Black students are here, they're
 ; just not collectively coming here. And so I also, at the same time, I'm
 ; honestly, I don't know how I did all these things, but at the same time (laughs)
 ; while I was in, in InterVarsity, they have like a Black student body as well
 ; within that, that organization. And so I was working with Black Student Unions
 ; at other campuses. I was like, let me see how you all do this because your group
 ; is so big. And then I'm like, okay, well instead of trying to motivate these
 ; students who are like, I don't want to go (laughs), I'm gonna work with these
 ; students who already have the--already energized about meeting together about,
 ; you know, centering Black narrative and who want
 ; 
 ; to move that forward.
 ; 
 ; So we attempted to do like events together. So, I feel like a lot of people get
 ; F.O.M.O (Fear Of Missing Out), so I'm like, if I make the event cool enough and
 ; bring enough people, they're gonna want to come. And so I did a lot of that, and
 ; I designed the logo. I fixed the bylaws and I worked a lot with other students
 ; because I was like, I think this was like my, ‘cause this was my senior year, I
 ; had to do all of this my senior year, graduate, you know, look for a job, all
 ; those things. And so I kind of searched for the next presidents. I was like,
 ; “Hey, you have the potential. Come with me to this event, I think you would
 ; benefit from it.” And
 ; 
 ; I invested time in their development, like, not to pressure you, but I am
 ; leaving (laughs) so, it would be great if someone could step into these roles.
 ; 
 ; And so I remember my last year and no one really what was stepping up and I was
 ; like, I just have to leave it and hope that it works out. So I went to my
 ; mentor, Roger, who at the time was the director of the LGBT Center and I was
 ; like, “Can you do me a favor?” (laughs) Can you, because he's an agitator, he,
 ; he will make sure like something gets done. So I was like, “Can you please make
 ; sure that someone steps up? Cause I'm, I'm graduating, like I can't do any more
 ; past this.” So yeah, that was,
 ; 
 ; that was a lot (laughs).
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah. It definitely sounds like you, kind of once again used out of
 ; the box style thinking to try and ensure the future of the organization and the
 ; health of the organization, which is definitely, definitely needed (laughs) in
 ; situations like that. Regarding the relationship between those organizations and
 ; just in general on our campus, what role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center
 ; playing as it coexists with these different organizations devoted to identity
 ; expression? Like, what kind of role do you think it inhabits and still inhabits?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So, I
 ; 
 ; don't remember the name of it, but my friend G was trying to start like a
 ; council for all like, multicultural student organizations to meet--to board
 ; leaders to meet together and be able to have a space to discuss issues or
 ; concerns or what have you together like a, quasi-United Nations (laughs), if you
 ; will. So I think that was the first time I kind of saw the way that the
 ; Cross-Cultural (Center) can collaborate, and empower, and equip student
 ; organizations to not only self-express, but also to address matters
 ; 
 ; that are important for them. Or how to just really have representation. Because
 ; I think that was really important. Like, for me, coming from a place where there
 ; wasn't that growing up, like I remember (laughs), I remember going to the Career
 ; Center on campus and there was this--stand and repeat, and it had a Black
 ; student on it.
 ; 
 ; And then I don't remember what the language was underneath it, but it basically
 ; implied as what I had interpreted of it, was that like, Black students aren't
 ; gonna get employed, something like that. And I was like,
 ; 
 ; “You have to change that.” (laughs) That's not gonna work. Like, that's not
 ; gonna bring Black students in here. You need to show them, themselves in the
 ; careers that they want, because they're out there. There are successful people
 ; of color. And so--I mean, same thing with like posters around campus. I'm like,
 ; “Who made that? There's not enough people that look diverse enough for that to
 ; be representing our campus.” So yeah I think it, it, it equips and empowers, not
 ; only like the board members on those--because like we had free printing. The
 ; Student Life and Leadership Center had a place where you could make a-frames,
 ; like you could make the
 ; 
 ; materials that you need.
 ; 
 ; Like you didn't have to do everything out of pocket. And especially for
 ; marginalized, you know minority groups. Sometimes money is not something that
 ; you have to just make materials for. I remember (laughs) the biggest thing for
 ; like, I feel like students tend to get behind is like, “Do I get a T-shirt
 ; (laughs)?” If you have swag for them, they're like, “Yeah, I'll definitely show
 ; up.” So I was like, we need to get T-shirts for Black Student Union. And because
 ; I was a student, because I worked, or you know, worked at the Cross-Cultural
 ; Center and I knew the resources they had available, I was like, “I know what
 ; website to make it on. I can order them. I can have them, have it done. I know
 ; where to go to get scholarships for our
 ; 
 ; group.” So I think, that is what's really like, special about that relationship
 ; with, you know, centers who work with student organizations.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah, totally. That's super cool. I heard on swag, that is definitely
 ; a great way to get, to get people in through the door and get your message
 ; heard, funnily enough. My next set of questions and the, the questions that
 ; we'll kind of wrap up on are a little bit more abstract. So I just wanted to ask
 ; you how your experiences with Cross-Cultural Center, as well as Black Student
 ; Union on that note, impacted your professional path and what you currently do?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: So I'm, I'm sort
 ; 
 ; of in a career transition space, so I wouldn't necessarily say that those
 ; experiences impacted my profession. I would say they impacted me personally and
 ; my politics. I think it opened my eyes to a lot of different things,
 ; organizations, what people are doing in the community and it motivated me to
 ; serve the community in a different way. Right after college, I ended up going on
 ; a missions trip in Fresno, and seeing poverty in a different way. And I also
 ; worked with Inner City Youth in Escondido as well as here in
 ; 
 ; Central San Diego. So I think it definitely shaped my passion for development.
 ; And I guess in some ways I still sort of do that in my role now. But my job I
 ; would say is, more like financially driven decisions versus passions and what
 ; sort of shaped me there.
 ; 
 ; But after--I believe it, after (George) Floyd was murdered? I think it was
 ; during the pandemic like, 2020, when that whole bit happened. I mean I was going
 ; to protests before
 ; 
 ; then. Like I went to the Women's March, I went to some other protests as well. I
 ; even brought some of my students (laughs). I was like, “This is what a protest
 ; is.” And so when that happened in the pandemic, it just, it's hard because it's
 ; like wrapped around tragedy, you know, these things that are so unjust that it,
 ; (laughs) I was telling my therapist that I have like an--eloquent rage. Like I
 ; want (laughs) to do things in a certain way that will affect change in the
 ; system that's already existing. Sometimes I do want to be very radical, but also
 ; I just don't want like Black people to keep dying, you know?
 ; 
 ; And so I actually ended up kind of getting my boyfriend at the time into that
 ; too. I think he had always been like into it, but the way that he would protest
 ; is virtually. And I'm like, come see what it's like grassroots. Because It's a
 ; different feeling. And so we went in our cars, and we went up to like La Jolla
 ; and came back to central San Diego and then went all the way down to National
 ; City as a protest. And there was like hundreds of cars, it was all over the
 ; news. We had made posters. It was like a huge thing. And I feel like, that
 ; moment kind of reminded me of when I was at the Social Justice Summits and
 ; watching someone's
 ; 
 ; lightbulb turn on almost like, oh wow, like this is what it, what it's like, l
 ; being in solidarity with other, with others and wanting the change that we need.
 ; 
 ; We don't want individuals to be brutalized and murdered by individuals that we
 ; thought we could trust to keep us safe, you know? And so I get, I get chills
 ; thinking about it. I remember there was one student, he was like, “How can you
 ; just get up there and like, speak on the mic and not be afraid?” And I'm like,
 ; “I am afraid!” I'm very afraid, but I also don't want this to happen anymore.
 ; It's not okay. And so I would rather
 ; 
 ; be afraid and find the courage to get through it, than be afraid and do nothing.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Absolutely. And I'm sorry, it's just super profound (laughs) super
 ; profound things that you're talking about. And also just so much value in being
 ; able to relate those experiences back together. And also, again, tangibly seeing
 ; results from, your own efforts make--be them personal or professional. So very,
 ; very cool. Just a few more questions left. What direction do you think the
 ; Cross-Cultural Center should grow in?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: I visit like maybe every, two or three years (both laughs). So I don't
 ; know what the last three years have been because I, the la--I think the last
 ; time I went to campus was like maybe (20)17 or (20)18. So it's been a while
 ; since I've been there. And it's a different, it's a different vibe than how it
 ; was when I was there. We were like a smaller center, you know, we didn't have
 ; this beautiful (University) Student Union. We had the Commons, and if anyone
 ; knows what the Commons are, there were these small little rooms, (laughs) that
 ; we just made work, you know? And they would be filled with students. And so I
 ; remember seeing the blueprints of this
 ; 
 ; Student Union. And for me, I'm just like, “This is awesome!” I feel like I was,
 ; you know, part of the building blocks of this, and I'm just honestly proud of
 ; how things have evolved.
 ; 
 ; I will say (laughs) the, this is maybe not necessarily like the Cross-Cultural
 ; Center, but I've heard that the parking permits there are ridiculous. Like, for
 ; passes, like I go, I, I got my master's at University of San Diego, their annual
 ; passes are under a hundred dollars. And so to have a parking pass that's $600 or
 ; something like that, I was like, that's wild. If I was there, I'd be protesting
 ; about it. This is ridiculous. Like, what are you, let me see your (laughs), let
 ; me see your expenditure sheets, let me see your multi-year budget plans, because
 ; this doesn't make
 ; 
 ; sense, like it should not be that expensive. I really don't know what the
 ; student activism looks like. You know, I know that when I was there that a lot
 ; of people kind of saw the Cross-Cultural Center as like a Pan-Asian space,
 ; because that's kind of a lot of the students that would come to that space.
 ; 
 ; And so when I was there, I was like, I want to see everybody (laughs). I want to
 ; go and like find where you guys are and let you know, this is here, like MEChA
 ; (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan) come over, you know, Black students
 ; come over. I'd be like, “Okay, what movie do you want to see? (laughs) I'm about
 ; to put it on the TV. You know, like make you feel comfortable. So yeah, I think
 ; that's kind of something that was needed then. I don't know what it's like now.
 ; I know when I kind of like popped in it's--there was mostly Asian students there,
 ; 
 ; but you know, I think as long as students are using the space, I think that's
 ; what matters most. That's what it's there for. I think it's great that you know,
 ; peer educators can, I don't know if they're doing this now, but when I was
 ; there, I would go into classrooms and I would teach curriculum to students about
 ; identity and allyship.
 ; 
 ; So I hope that they're still doing stuff like that because there are situations
 ; where I--where it impacts the world, it impacts, you know, that, that macrocosm.
 ; And in turn we, you know, sometimes professors don't know what to say and some
 ; of those students might be having a hard time being present, learning about, I
 ; don't know,
 ; 
 ; whatever subject, like microorganisms, (laughs), you know what I mean? And so
 ; how can you as a professor tie in like what's going on in the world to address
 ; it, but also like be there for the students in a way that, you know, maybe is
 ; not necessarily like a savior complex, but in a way that's supportive. Like “I
 ; see you, I see that, you know, this could be something that, you may or may not
 ; be noticing in life or affected by, but there's this place where you can go,” or
 ; like bringing in those students to those classrooms. And nothing against the
 ; hard sciences. We love math, we love science. But you know, sometimes those
 ; spaces are very black and white and the Cross-Cultural Center lives in a gray
 ; space. And so to be able to show students that and help them with identity
 ; development, because like I said,
 ; 
 ; college is such a unique time. You’re a quasi-adult, but not really. And you
 ; have to take on all these responsibilities in addition to graduating. So.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah. Absolutely. My next question, and again this is going to kind of
 ; reference the current landscape of CSUSM. So don't worry if you can't think of
 ; like a super accurate answer or anything. You can also comment about the time,
 ; like around the time that you graduated and moved on. But what communities do
 ; you feel are underrepresented on campus?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Hmm...
 ; 
 ; I don't really know. I know like when I was a student... so, I know I, I
 ; definitely got involved with like undocumented students ’cause that experience
 ; was something that I personally didn't have like experience in. But I had a
 ; friend, several friends, who were undocumented. And I remember going to Social
 ; Justice Summit and having that lightbulb. And we were talking about undocumented
 ; students and I was like, “Oh my God.” Like I drove one of my friends who I know
 ; is undocumented and I didn't have
 ; 
 ; like (laughs), this is again, me living rebelliously. I was driving, and my
 ; license plate was expired or something like that? And I was like, “Oh my gosh.”
 ; If I had gotten pulled over and this police officer wasn't chill, I could have
 ; endangered my friend. And so, I think it grew my like empathy for that community.
 ; 
 ; I remember their group was like, sort of active, sort of not, at the time when I
 ; was a student. I think MEChA--
 ; 
 ; DeMaria: Um-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Is such a big organization like nationally that sometimes the
 ; undocumented experience kind of becomes adjacent to that. So one of the friends
 ; that I
 ; 
 ; was referring to, I believe she served in a leadership role for, I don't
 ; remember what the name of that undocumented student organization was, but I
 ; remember her talking about that and kind of trying to differentiate that group
 ; as a result. I also have another friend that I still talk to today. She created
 ; an organization called Et Cetera. And her whole goal was to be a catchall for
 ; the others. Like you're not really feeling like a certain cultural identity.
 ; Like maybe you don't want to be in the math group, like maybe you don't want to
 ; be in a fraternity, like come to Et Cetera (laughs). And so I thought that that
 ; was really cool that she wanted to create a space for individuals who either
 ; like myself live in like a duality, or others who just
 ; 
 ; maybe don't identify in a particular space.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Totally. I have two questions left to just wrap things up. So first
 ; one, what is the most important lesson you've taken from your experience with
 ; the Cross-Cultural Center?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: There were so many lessons (both laughs). Definitely difficult to pick
 ; one. I think I, I, I learned my power. And at that time I learned a, that I had
 ; power and leadership potential, but also that how to use it, in a way
 ; 
 ; that would affect change. Like I remember when--I hope that this tabloid paper
 ; doesn't exist on that campus anymore. Because If it does, I'm driving (laughs)
 ; to make sure it's not there. But--they, it was called The Koala. The Koala also
 ; existed on I think UCSD (University of California San Diego), but basically it
 ; was a tabloid paper, and they would just write, just excuse my language, but
 ; like, bullshit about people, about groups, about minority groups. And they're
 ; like, “Oh, but it's satire.” And I'm like, “This still doesn't make it okay.” I
 ; was such an agitator to them that they put me in one of their editions.
 ; 
 ; And so I remember noticing that this was not
 ; 
 ; okay, you know, me stepping into my power and then I protested by myself. I was
 ; like, I'm gonna stand next to you. I'm not gonna say anything, but I'm gonna
 ; hold this sign up, and I'm gonna stand next to you, so that other people
 ; understand that this is not okay and that you shouldn't be passing this out on
 ; campus. And like my friends were like coming up to me and they're like, “Oh my
 ; gosh, like you are so awesome for doing this." And I connected with other
 ; campuses and I'm like, “What are you guys doing about this (laughs) paper?”
 ; Because you know, such and such. And then I remember other people kind of in
 ; solidarity doing other things to expose the students and who are doing these
 ; salacious things, like who the editor was (laughs). They wrote it on the steps,
 ; like the steps that are next to the clock.
 ; 
 ; They wrote the names of all the members in the organization.
 ; 
 ; This person is in it and this person is in it and they want to hide, but
 ; (laughs), they're not gonna hide. We're gonna bring them to light. They actually
 ; bit their--put their own shoe in their mouth. But I think the editor attempted
 ; to run for ASI president.
 ; 
 ; De Maria:
 ; 
 ; Right?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: And if he had accomplished his goal, that paper would've been basically
 ; passed out, like how the Cougar News (student newspaper) gets passed out. But he
 ; ended up (laughs) fraud, like basically doing identity theft and faking votes so
 ; that he could win. So I was like, “Well, not only did you lose, but you also are gonna
 ; 
 ; have to be prosecuted for like 500 counts of identity theft.” And that's a
 ; federal offense (laughs). So I think it was a mixture of, you know, stepping
 ; into my power, but also knowing that I have, like I have a cap, I have a
 ; battery, at some point my battery is gonna go down and I need to recharge.
 ; 
 ; So I think that was another lesson that I learned, was like how to recharge, how
 ; to self-preserve. Because I know there were times that I was doing a lot of
 ; things. And even just thinking about it, I was like, “That sounds like a lot
 ; like (laughs). When did you have you time?” I remember there was a point where I
 ; had stopped making such a fuss about that paper,
 ; 
 ; and there was a student who was doing a class project where they were
 ; interviewing people about that paper. And I was like, I wrote in the comments, I
 ; was like, “Don't stop agitating, keep going.” So even in my time of
 ; preservation, I was still encouraging others to develop their power and what
 ; they found to be important for them.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Yeah. So comments on that. That's a really crazy intense story. And
 ; also just on a personal level, I'm glad that you were there to be the initial
 ; agitator essentially. And you know, just, affect that change, like how you said.
 ; So that's definitely a demonstration of power (laughs) used responsibly and for
 ; a good end.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Which
 ; 
 ; is very, very cool. For my final question, I want to relate back to something
 ; you said at the very beginning of the interview. You described feeling like an
 ; other in your community growing up in Orange County. So, I just would like to
 ; know, as someone who has also felt like an other growing up in a community, if
 ; someone feels that way, what tips or advice would you give them to start
 ; agitating or get involved in social justice?
 ; 
 ; Bradley: I mean--I feel like my experiences as an other sort of like, I describe
 ; it like a butterfly, because I am like--ambiguous
 ; 
 ; (laughs) physically and mentally. I just kind of butterfly my way through groups
 ; and I learn from all those experiences. So being an other doesn't necessarily
 ; have to define you into the other box. It can give you capacity to be in every
 ; box. I remember my sister for those demographic questions where they're like,
 ; “What race are you?” And she was like, “I just check all of them!” (laughs) So
 ; in a way you just check all of them. You can go into this group, you can go into
 ; that group and people would welcome me, like regardless. So that was like really
 ; nice, to experience. But also I think--
 ; 
 ; I don't know if every school campus has like a Social Justice
 ; 
 ; Summit type of thing, but I honestly think that something like that definitely
 ; informs the way that you develop in your social justice identity or your social
 ; justice, activism. But honestly, you could, just join a march, like when they
 ; had the Women's March or I think there was another march for all of the like
 ; school shootings that were happening that were student led. Just being a part of
 ; grassroots organizations can shape that activist part in individuals as well as
 ; shaping identity, you know. But I think what I noticed in school (laughs) is
 ; when you learn about other cultures, especially in American history, it's
 ; 
 ; terrible. They don't really put you into this really wonderful light. It's like
 ; genocide, slavery, and then President Obama (laughs).
 ; 
 ; And you're like, okay--but where's all the in between? And so, you know, even
 ; just having literature, I would hope you know that the Kellogg Library has a lot
 ; of options, but I had friends who gave me literature that helped me to develop
 ; that part of myself and to see--people who looked like me that were successful,
 ; but also people who were affecting change. Who were women, who were, you know,
 ; minority groups, who were young. I think for me,
 ; 
 ; growing up in a single parent household, you want to, or at least for me, I
 ; wanted to see a strong woman and like my grandma, she's definitely a part of my
 ; strong personality, but also it's like different when it's not your mom. And so
 ; for me, I was like looking for that maternal figure and so I found it a lot in
 ; supervisors, or professors, and I was like, that's the kind of woman that I want
 ; to be, who doesn't just sit and let things happen but will be willing to stand
 ; up for what I believe in.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: I think that's excellent advice. And again, just, a manifestation of
 ; taking pride in your identity rather than allowing that box or
 ; 
 ; that label to define you or your actions, even if those actions are advantageous
 ; to social justice. So I completely get that.
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah
 ; 
 ; De Maria: And with that, I know that we're at time. So I just wanted to thank
 ; you for taking the time out for this interview, Chanel. We definitely covered a
 ; lot, in terms of your personal experience, and I also learned a lot more about
 ; the CCC as I continue to interview more people for this project and kind of
 ; embark on this journey myself. So overall, just wanted to thank you for opening
 ; up and allowing others to be part of that experience and kind of understand what
 ; you went through and what you did.
 ; 
 ; Bradley:
 ; 
 ; Yeah, definitely. Well, if you want any contacts for other people--who to
 ; interview or if you have enough, that's cool too. (Both laugh) If you want some
 ; of the OGs, (De Maria laughs) I still talk to them.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Absolutely. We'll talk offline, but (both laugh)
 ; 
 ; Bradley: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; De Maria: Thank you so much Chanel
 ; 
 ; Bradley: You’re welcome,
 ; 
 ; okay.
 ; 
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Bradley, Chanel. Interview April 14th, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Chanel Bradley is a California State University San Marcos alumna. She graduated with her degree in Women's and Gender Studies in 2012. Chanel worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2012 and was involved in various social identity-related causes on campus. In this interview, Chanel discusses her experience as a peer educator at the Cross-Cultural Center and her recollections of the center during her time at CSUSM. Bradley was also involved in the Women's Center [now Gender Equity Center]. In her interview, Bradley also recalls how she revived the campus Black Student Union, protested the unauthorized student newspaper, The Koala, and came into her power.
Identifier
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SC027-35
Subject
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
Education, Higher
Human rights
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations -- California -- San Marcos
Minorities in higher education
Date
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2023-04-14
Format
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video
Creator
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Bradley, Chanel
Contributor
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De Maria, Michael
Coverage
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San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University University Library
Language
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English
Rights Holder
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Chanel Bradley
Activists and activism
Black experience
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/f49e1fc474b566146db157adf2b4fa32.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
2023-04-14
Michael De Maria:
My name is Michael De Maria. I’m a graduate research assistant with Kellogg Library, I'm here today
with Chanel Bradley discussing her involvement in the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM (California State
University San Marcos), as well as the Black Student Union. So to kick things off, Chanel, I just wanted to
ask about your background. I want you to talk about the community that you grew up in and kind of
describe what that was like.
Chanel Bradley:
I grew up in Orange County. I was raised by a single parent, so I moved a lot. And like for example, in
high school, I went to two different high schools (laughs). If you don't know about Orange County, it's
like predominantly a white county. And we lived in a predominantly white area, so I was normally like
one of few that looked like myself. And so I kind of quickly learned what it was like to be, other, and
found myself kind of like congregating with other others, (laughs). And that sort of became my
community. Typically, I would spend my time with like Latino and like Black students and like even at my
church, like, I went to Saddleback until I was about sixteen. I was in the choir, and my grandmother was
the choir director. And Saddleback is like a megachurch in Orange County. So she was kind of like a local
celebrity (laughs). So like people would know, like, about our family or about her. And so there was a lot
of, of colorful acquaintances. But I would say the people that I felt kind of most comfortable with how to
share like cultural experience.
De Maria:
I see. And going forward from there, what led you to attend CSU San Marcos and get involved with the
CCC (Cross-Cultural Center)?
Bradley:
So I was originally gonna go to a school in Florida. And my dad, he didn't want me to leave the state
(laughs), so it was more of a forced choice. And so, I applied to other colleges and universities in the
state. And I think we ended up picking Cal State (San Marcos) because, of the distance, I think at the
time he was living in, Rancho Santa Margarita. And so, it was very easy to kind of like go home on like
weekends or something like that. But I actually ended up living in the dorms and so I didn't go home too
often, but I started going to the Cross-Cultural Center (laughs), as most college students is motivation is
free things (laughs). So the Cross-Cultural Center had free food. And so, my friends and I were always
like trying to find the next thing that had free food. So I went to an event, I don't even remember what
the event was called. And they had so many like student services, like I could print for free. You know,
they had books that I could borrow for classes if I needed to. And, I think for me being multi-ethnic, like I
don't really fit into a particular box. And so it was nice to go to a place where like, oh, I can like get like,
you know, experiences from all walks of life. So, I think that's kind of what--why I kept coming back.
And then I served on the committee. What did I do? (whispers) It's, it's, it's like what, almost 20 years
(laughs) ago, so I have to kind of like think about it. But, I remember either like going to the CrossCultural Center director (laughs). I, I was a very adventurous college student, so I got into some trouble. I
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ended up (laughs) being convicted of a misdemeanor and my last semester of my freshman year, I
couldn't finish my exams because I was waiting for trial. So, I think what had happened was I ended up
volunteering so that I could gain work experience after that incident that I had. And so, I believe Sara
Sheikh had suggested that I assist her with the Social Justice Summit. And so I created some of the
marketing material for it. And then, I believe, maybe a year or so after that, I ended up participating on
the committee again. And I believe that same year, might have been the same year or maybe, you know,
few years after I applied to be a peer educator for the center. So that was kind of like the beginnings of
involvement (laughs) with the Cross-Cultural Center.
De Maria:
Got it. So, it sounds like the CCC just provided a positive space for you to inhabit and kind of rebuild
some elements of your life after that incident. Which I think is super, super cool. Regarding the projects
that you worked on, I'd love to hear more about the Social Justice Summit, since you were involved in
the very first one (Bradley laughs). So, if you could just take me through your experience with that, and
just, you know, what, what it was like, what was discussed, and just giving me an image of what all
occurred.
Bradley:
So, I think I remember what happened. I ended up, attending the first Social Justice Summit, as a
participant. And I, (laughs) yeah, that's what happened. I remember. Okay. (laughs) I feel like as I'm
talking, I'm remembering the timeline. So (laughs), pardon me if I'm like having to go back into the, the
files of my brain.
De Maria:
No, that's, that's good (both Laugh).
Bradley:
Yeah, so I, I was a participant. I attended the retreat with my boyfriend at the time. And--I would say I've
always been like a fairly consciously aware person like, you know, growing up in a predominantly white
area, and like knowing that I was not white, was something that I knew. But I think as you--or at least as
I grew up, you kind of learn how to adapt in those environments. And so, things that are probably like
triggering or, you know, maybe the, not the most like PC thing to say, I would kind of say to fit in or
whatever I was doing at the time. So when I went to the Social Justice Summit, it was really eye-opening
’cause they were talking about, like, individual identity. They were talking about oppression and
marginalization, which again, like I knew, but I didn't know that it existed, in like different intersects.
And--they also talked about like allyship. So I met a lot of people there that I still talk to today. Yeah,
that's, that's how I started. And then I think after that, that's when I was on the committee, the planning
committee. And I did the marketing and I pretty much just kept continuing to participate with the Social
Justice Summit because it was very impactful for me. I think it helped build my activism, if you will. It
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gave me...language to talk about my experiences. It gave me like, curriculum to teach other people
about how to start their journey or like continue their journey or, you know, come back from taking a
rest (laughs) if you will. It exposed me to like a lot of things that were happening on campus, that were
unjust. And I, because I had those experiences I felt empowered enough to not just let them happen,
but to like speak about them. I developed like lifelong mentors from that summit. I think, if I'm not
mistaken, I probably went to like three or four of them. The first one being a participant and the others I
was on the committee. And then the, the last one, I ended up--I was a co-facilitator, so.
De Maria:
Got it. Very, very cool. And I previously interviewed Sara Sheikh, so she was able to also walk me
through, a bit of that experience, but that's awesome hearing your perspective. And then regarding
some of the projects that you did for the CCC, you've previously been described by your peers as
someone who always got incredible results, but thought outside the box and didn't necessarily play by
the rules to achieve those results. So I was just curious in your own words if you had an instance of a
project or an objective you achieved where you didn't necessarily play by the rules.
Bradley:
That's funny. (laughs) I've always been like a really creative person. So--I... I like to see kind of like, what
is the baseline? And I'm like, “okay, what, what more can we do from here?” So, we had an event called
Cafe La Paz, and it was essentially a way to talk about, different cultural backgrounds and experiences, in
an interactive way. And then I believe we served food (laughs). I think all our events we serve food,
that's how you get students (laughs), make sure you get a Costco pizza and, and all the desserts and
then you will have students. But yeah, so we had to work with, or we were tasked to work with the
other centers, so the Women's Center (now Gender Equity Center) and the LGBT Pride Center, LGBTQIA,
Pride Center (laughs).
And so, I don't remember like the actual identities that we had to talk about, but it was like two or three
of them, and we had to find a way to kind of put them together. And, I like to do things where people
aren't just like listening to a lecture or watching a movie. I feel like it's, like it works if it's like twenty
minutes or something that's short. Like when you get people to move and talk and engage with each
other, I feel like that's more impactful to their learning process. So I honestly don't remember the game
or what it's called. Oh, yes, I do (laughs). So, it's a game, called mafia and, it basically simulates this like
inner and outer group and then, like people who reinforce the system and then, people who are trying
to change the system.
And so, I found a way to talk about experiences in the community or in classrooms and then incorporate
this game that I played with other college students. So, I guess that's a way of being creative and
thinking outside the box. I know I definitely broke some rules as far as my attendance goes. (Be)cause
my, my, punctuality then was not (laughs) not very good. So I guess that would probably be some ways
that I, you know, was a little bit rebellious. But I would say for the most part it was just really my
creativity that drove me to, think of things that weren't being done. So like, another example is like
when we, I think this might have been--when was this? This might have been like the second or third
social justice event that I was on the committee with.
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And we were like, thinking of names to title it, or what have you. And I'm very simple. Like I don't--I'm
not really someone that wants like a word vomit of a title, like make it impactful, how can we say this in
the fewest words possible? So I like, took--then they had the RED campaign (division of The ONE
Campaign to end extreme poverty and preventable disease by 2030). I don't know if you remember that.
De Maria:
Um-hm
Bradley:
It was a RED campaign for Apple or like, for HIV awareness, or something like that. And so in that
campaign, they put brackets over the R and the E. So I found a way to like use the word power and then
I put brackets around the word, the words W-E So it looks like, like we are the power that we, that we
want to, like we have the power, we the people have the power essentially. And so I remember making
it, and it was like, the most simple one that I had ever done in all of the designs that I had created. And I
believe that same year the registration, like was full by like the end of the day or like the next day. So
that was really cool to kind of see how something so simple can intrigue people enough to want to join
something that they probably wouldn't normally going to.
De Maria:
Absolutely. And it's super cool to hear about your art making such a tangible impact as well. Regarding
the operation of the CCC again, through my research I've heard several people kind of cite the students
as sort of like the lifeblood of the organization. The people who affected change and essentially help
those projects get off the ground. So I was just interested in hearing about what your relationships were
like with other student staff as well as your superiors?
Bradley:
So my first two years, ’cause I think I was there for three years, it’s been three years, oh my gosh
(laughs). My first couple of years. The person, did he, I think he, I think he was the one that referred for
me to apply, or it was Sara (Sheikh). I don't exactly remember. But I have a friend who's like, essentially
someone who I've been friends with since then, but his name is Gerardo Cabral or he goes by G now.
But G, I met him at that event that I said where I got the free pizza for the first time. I honestly didn't
know that it was his event. He tells me later that it was, and I was like, he's like, “Yeah, I remember you
coming in.” And (laughs) I don't even remember what I was saying, but I was like, extra, as the word that
people would use then.
And so when I started working with him, him and I started to develop a closer relationship outside of
work. He, I think at the time, like either my car wasn't working or like I had to walk to campus, and I was
living off of campus, so he would pick me up like every day. ’cause I was, I wasn't too far from campus,
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but it was far enough where, like you didn't want to walk, because as everybody knows, Cal State San
Marcos sits on a hill. So (laughs) if you're walking from off campus, and it's already far enough, like you
got (to) trek up, a mountainside to get there. And so--and this was before the (University) Student
Union, because there were like ways that you can get up without using stairs that I figured out, but the
easiest way is to take stairs.
But yeah, so became like really close to Gerardo and, I, I, I believe because of like the experience that I
had with like the incident that I had my freshman year I really connected with Sara. She like has a very
therapeutic presence. And as someone who like experienced trauma young and (laughs) very, very
colorful past it was comforting to have a supervisor that didn't really feel like a supervisor. Like she, you
know, obviously was my supervisor, but it just felt different. I've never had a supervisor where I
connected in that way. So when she left, it, it was a really big hole, like for the whole center because
everyone loved her. I mean, they still love her, like I still love her. But like me and G especially were like
basically mourning (laughs) her transition.
And I think that experience also brought us closer. I was in his wedding, like he's came to all of my
graduations, I've gone to his. So we still talk to this day. And my experience with Floyd (Lai, the next
director of the Cross-Cultural Center), because I was so connected with Sara, was definitely rocky at first.
I was so used to like a certain way, that things were, and then when Floyd came, he didn't necessarily
disrupt everything and like change everything. We kind of kept most things, if not all. But I definitely was
a little bit taken aback by having to deal with like, a, a power shift, if you will. But Floyd has always been
super supportive. And at the time I was also involved in InterVarsity, InterVarsity is a Christian student
group on campus.
I don't know if they're still there, but I had a mentor there who was telling me, he was like, “You have to
be a leader.” Like a 360 leader. Sometimes you have to lead the people that you are, that are supposed
to lead you. Not to say that Floyd didn't lead me, it was just like, because he was a new person, he kind
of came to me with like, “Okay, what information do you have? What knowledge do you have? Do you
have background information about this event or that?” And so I kind of felt like I was in a way his little
guide. And so that was new for me. I'd never been in a position where people are looking at me for
answers. So I think it helped me develop my leadership skills as a result.
And also be able to reconcile relationships too. So, some of the other like staff that I work with, I still
touch base with every once in a while, but--like when was it? Was it the 25th anniversary? I don't
remember. But there (laughs), there was a, what was it, third year? I don't remember. But I went to an
event and I came back to campus after graduating and I ran into Allie Moreno, I think she has a different
last name now, but Allie Moreno I also worked with. And she was there at the event, so I got to
reconnect with her. Same thing with Diana (Salidvar).
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I'm bad with names, so I apologize. Diana, I believe, is her name. I still like connect with her through
social media, so I--it's, it's like, a very unique time in your life when you're like, “I'm an adult,” but also
like, you're still learning. You're still learning how to be an adult, you're still learning how to function in
the world. You have to take care of yourself. Like, I had to, you know, get a job and I couldn't really rely
on my parents to help me out of situations (laughs) if you will. So I had to learn how to be resourceful.
And I think the Cross-Cultural Center gave me the resources among other, you know services that I used
on campus to survive and thrive there.
De Maria:
Yeah, absolutely. One comment on that, I will second Sara Sheikh's, therapeutic nature (both laugh).
She's, she's definitely an incredible person. And, yeah, it definitely sounds like when you were able to
kind of inhabit that role as sort of like a guide for the others in the center, it sounds like you kind of
reached a point of pride and were able to kind of reflect in your accomplishments and just some of the
things that you had done. Which I also think is super cool. Now that I've kind of jogged your memory a
little bit from those experiences, I want to know what your favorite memory of the Cross-Cultural Center
is.
Bradley:
(laughs) It's very simple. Like I--the, the one thing that my dad taught me was that you can change an
atmosphere just by stepping into the room. And so I would be very big on atmosphere, or ambiance if
you will. My friends and I call it am-Beyonce (laughs), like, because Beyonce has that, that energy and
aura to her too. And so what I would do when I would be working my shift is I would play music that I
enjoyed, and then I would ask students like, “What do you wanna listen to?” So I would kind of like be a
DJ, like a little bit (laughs). So I enjoyed just creating a welcoming space for them to come in. And I've
had students--and in a way I sort of became like a therapist come to me like stressed out about
something and they are looking for advice or guidance, or just like helping individuals who are coming in
trying to figure out like, “Oh, what's this place?” (laughs) You know? So I think that was probably my
favorite part of working at the Cult--Cross-Cultural Center, was just creating that space for students.
De Maria:
Very cool. I definitely understand that impact of ambiance, so it's definitely nice that you were able to
be a little selfless in a way and kind of provide that, that atmosphere like you mentioned. And shifting
gears here, I know that you had a heavy involvement in the Black Student Union on campus as well.
You're cited as being an individual who essentially revived that organization or had a very big hand in
reviving it from inactivity. So just starting there, I want to know what that timeline looked like and how
you got involved in that project as well.
Bradley:
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So I was in BSU (Black Student Union) my freshman year, and it was pretty active then. We had a good
amount of members. They--I would say maybe a majority of them were like upperclassmen. And so, I
think I also served on the board my second year and that's when the president Charey or Trey stepped
down and then Raja stepped up. He had a lot of great ideas and he is a really good leader. I think it's just
really hard when you're--like imagine having to be the next head, like performance after like Patti
LaBelle (laughs). You're like “How do I top that (laughs)?” So I think it was some of that that happened
with Raja, but he did a really good job at getting a lot of the structural things that organizations need.
Like they need bylaws. They need to define their roles. They need recruitment efforts. They need to
have like good soil to be able to grow. After Raja graduated, because he was also upper class, I think he
ended up graduating before myself, maybe a couple years before me. So a lot of those upperclassmen
that made up a lot of the BSU moved on. And so it was just like the underclassmen that kind of had to
step up. I think there were like, if I'm not mistaken, a couple of attempts where students tried to revive
it and then it just became inactive. I don't know how long the inactive period was, but I think during that
time I was doing a lot of on-campus like protests. I was doing a lot of things with the Cross-Cultural
Center.
I was leading Bible studies. I was, also going to school, working, like I was doing a lot. And I think it was
my Women's Studies professor, I think at the end of my like sophomore year and she was like, “What
are you gonna do about BSU?” I'm like, “What do you mean (laughs)? Like, it's not my job (laughs).” And
I think another Women's Studies professor was like, “You should try to get that organization going
again.” And I was like, “Okay” (laughs). I work with a lot of student organizations when I was a peer
educator. So I'm like, okay, I see how they do things. I know all the background information. I know who
to talk to at, Student Life and Leadership so that I can try to expedite things if I need to.
I know where to go with ASI (Associated Student Inc.) like being a student worker really exposes you to a
lot of like the administrative side of a university. So I got to be able to experience that. So when I
stepped into that role, I already had all those resources. And I knew a lot of students, so they knew who
I was. And so when I started, I had enough members to make the organization active, which I believe is
three. You need a secretary, a vice (president) and a president. We talked extensively during the
summer about like, who's going to take up what role, and what are we gonna do and how are we gonna
do things? And kind of, things like that. I originally, I believe was just gonna be a vice president, another
student wanted to be president.
And I'm like, I have no ties to any role. My only objective is to make this organization active again. And I
think it was the week or two before classes started, both of them dropped out. And I was like, I don't
know what I'm gonna do, but I'll figure this out because I'm resourceful. So, I just started reaching out to
every student that I knew. I'm like, you remember when BSU was like, and all this stuff? And just trying
to--and even new students, I was like, “You look like a leader!” I was just heavy, heavy with my
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recruitment until I finally got two people to be in the role of vice president and treasurer. And then I was
able to go to Josh at the time who was like overseeing student organizations. (laughs).
I'm like, okay, “I have all the paperwork (laughs), like can we be active now?” And then it was definitely
really rocky. It was, it was really rocky, because at the time I was like, I'm just trying to get us back into a
place where we have presence on campus cause we're here, like Black students are here, they're just
not collectively coming here. And so I also, at the same time, I'm honestly, I don't know how I did all
these things, but at the same time (laughs) while I was in, in InterVarsity, they have like a Black student
body as well within that, that organization. And so I was working with Black Student Unions at other
campuses. I was like, let me see how you all do this because your group is so big. And then I'm like, okay,
well instead of trying to motivate these students who are like, I don't want to go (laughs), I'm gonna
work with these students who already have the--already energized about meeting together about, you
know, centering Black narrative and who want to move that forward.
So we attempted to do like events together. So, I feel like a lot of people get F.O.M.O (Fear Of Missing
Out), so I'm like, if I make the event cool enough and bring enough people, they're gonna want to come.
And so I did a lot of that, and I designed the logo. I fixed the bylaws and I worked a lot with other
students because I was like, I think this was like my, ‘cause this was my senior year, I had to do all of this
my senior year, graduate, you know, look for a job, all those things. And so I kind of searched for the
next presidents. I was like, “Hey, you have the potential. Come with me to this event, I think you would
benefit from it.” And I invested time in their development, like, not to pressure you, but I am leaving
(laughs) so, it would be great if someone could step into these roles.
And so I remember my last year and no one really what was stepping up and I was like, I just have to
leave it and hope that it works out. So I went to my mentor, Roger, who at the time was the director of
the LGBT Center and I was like, “Can you do me a favor?” (laughs) Can you, because he's an agitator, he,
he will make sure like something gets done. So I was like, “Can you please make sure that someone
steps up? Cause I'm, I'm graduating, like I can't do any more past this.” So yeah, that was, that was a lot
(laughs).
De Maria:
Yeah. It definitely sounds like you, kind of once again used out of the box style thinking to try and ensure
the future of the organization and the health of the organization, which is definitely, definitely needed
(laughs) in situations like that. Regarding the relationship between those organizations and just in
general on our campus, what role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with these
different organizations devoted to identity expression? Like, what kind of role do you think it inhabits
and still inhabits?
Bradley:
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So, I don't remember the name of it, but my friend G was trying to start like a council for all like,
multicultural student organizations to meet--to board leaders to meet together and be able to have a
space to discuss issues or concerns or what have you together like a, quasi-United Nations (laughs), if
you will. So I think that was the first time I kind of saw the way that the Cross-Cultural (Center) can
collaborate, and empower, and equip student organizations to not only self-express, but also to address
matters that are important for them. Or how to just really have representation. Because I think that was
really important. Like, for me, coming from a place where there wasn't that growing up, like I remember
(laughs), I remember going to the Career Center on campus and there was this--stand and repeat, and it
had a Black student on it.
And then I don't remember what the language was underneath it, but it basically implied as what I had
interpreted of it, was that like, Black students aren't gonna get employed, something like that. And I was
like, “You have to change that.” (laughs) That's not gonna work. Like, that's not gonna bring Black
students in here. You need to show them, themselves in the careers that they want, because they're out
there. There are successful people of color. And so--I mean, same thing with like posters around
campus. I'm like, “Who made that? There's not enough people that look diverse enough for that to be
representing our campus.” So yeah I think it, it, it equips and empowers, not only like the board
members on those--because like we had free printing. The Student Life and Leadership Center had a
place where you could make a-frames, like you could make the materials that you need.
Like you didn't have to do everything out of pocket. And especially for marginalized, you know minority
groups. Sometimes money is not something that you have to just make materials for. I remember
(laughs) the biggest thing for like, I feel like students tend to get behind is like, “Do I get a T-shirt
(laughs)?” If you have swag for them, they're like, “Yeah, I'll definitely show up.” So I was like, we need
to get T-shirts for Black Student Union. And because I was a student, because I worked, or you know,
worked at the Cross-Cultural Center and I knew the resources they had available, I was like, “I know
what website to make it on. I can order them. I can have them, have it done. I know where to go to get
scholarships for our group.” So I think, that is what's really like, special about that relationship with, you
know, centers who work with student organizations.
De Maria:
Yeah, totally. That's super cool. I heard on swag, that is definitely a great way to get, to get people in
through the door and get your message heard, funnily enough. My next set of questions and the, the
questions that we'll kind of wrap up on are a little bit more abstract. So I just wanted to ask you how
your experiences with Cross-Cultural Center, as well as Black Student Union on that note, impacted your
professional path and what you currently do?
Bradley:
So I'm, I'm sort of in a career transition space, so I wouldn't necessarily say that those experiences
impacted my profession. I would say they impacted me personally and my politics. I think it opened my
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eyes to a lot of different things, organizations, what people are doing in the community and it motivated
me to serve the community in a different way. Right after college, I ended up going on a missions trip in
Fresno, and seeing poverty in a different way. And I also worked with Inner City Youth in Escondido as
well as here in Central San Diego. So I think it definitely shaped my passion for development. And I guess
in some ways I still sort of do that in my role now. But my job I would say is, more like financially driven
decisions versus passions and what sort of shaped me there.
But after--I believe it, after (George) Floyd was murdered? I think it was during the pandemic like, 2020,
when that whole bit happened. I mean I was going to protests before then. Like I went to the Women's
March, I went to some other protests as well. I even brought some of my students (laughs). I was like,
“This is what a protest is.” And so when that happened in the pandemic, it just, it's hard because it's like
wrapped around tragedy, you know, these things that are so unjust that it, (laughs) I was telling my
therapist that I have like an--eloquent rage. Like I want (laughs) to do things in a certain way that will
affect change in the system that's already existing. Sometimes I do want to be very radical, but also I just
don't want like Black people to keep dying, you know?
And so I actually ended up kind of getting my boyfriend at the time into that too. I think he had always
been like into it, but the way that he would protest is virtually. And I'm like, come see what it's like
grassroots. Because It's a different feeling. And so we went in our cars, and we went up to like La Jolla
and came back to central San Diego and then went all the way down to National City as a protest. And
there was like hundreds of cars, it was all over the news. We had made posters. It was like a huge thing.
And I feel like, that moment kind of reminded me of when I was at the Social Justice Summits and
watching someone's lightbulb turn on almost like, oh wow, like this is what it, what it's like, l being in
solidarity with other, with others and wanting the change that we need.
We don't want individuals to be brutalized and murdered by individuals that we thought we could trust
to keep us safe, you know? And so I get, I get chills thinking about it. I remember there was one student,
he was like, “How can you just get up there and like, speak on the mic and not be afraid?” And I'm like,
“I am afraid!” I'm very afraid, but I also don't want this to happen anymore. It's not okay. And so I would
rather be afraid and find the courage to get through it, than be afraid and do nothing.
De Maria:
Absolutely. And I'm sorry, it's just super profound (laughs) super profound things that you're talking
about. And also just so much value in being able to relate those experiences back together. And also,
again, tangibly seeing results from, your own efforts make--be them personal or professional. So very,
very cool. Just a few more questions left. What direction do you think the Cross-Cultural Center should
grow in?
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�CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
2023-04-14
Bradley:
I visit like maybe every, two or three years (both laughs). So I don't know what the last three years have
been because I, the la--I think the last time I went to campus was like maybe (20)17 or (20)18. So it's
been a while since I've been there. And it's a different, it's a different vibe than how it was when I was
there. We were like a smaller center, you know, we didn't have this beautiful (University) Student Union.
We had the Commons, and if anyone knows what the Commons are, there were these small little
rooms, (laughs) that we just made work, you know? And they would be filled with students. And so I
remember seeing the blueprints of this Student Union. And for me, I'm just like, “This is awesome!” I
feel like I was, you know, part of the building blocks of this, and I'm just honestly proud of how things
have evolved.
I will say (laughs) the, this is maybe not necessarily like the Cross-Cultural Center, but I've heard that the
parking permits there are ridiculous. Like, for passes, like I go, I, I got my master's at University of San
Diego, their annual passes are under a hundred dollars. And so to have a parking pass that's $600 or
something like that, I was like, that's wild. If I was there, I'd be protesting about it. This is ridiculous. Like,
what are you, let me see your (laughs), let me see your expenditure sheets, let me see your multi-year
budget plans, because this doesn't make sense, like it should not be that expensive. I really don't know
what the student activism looks like. You know, I know that when I was there that a lot of people kind of
saw the Cross-Cultural Center as like a Pan-Asian space, because that's kind of a lot of the students that
would come to that space.
And so when I was there, I was like, I want to see everybody (laughs). I want to go and like find where
you guys are and let you know, this is here, like MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan)
come over, you know, Black students come over. I'd be like, “Okay, what movie do you want to see?
(laughs) I'm about to put it on the TV. You know, like make you feel comfortable. So yeah, I think that's
kind of something that was needed then. I don't know what it's like now. I know when I kind of like
popped in it's--there was mostly Asian students there, but you know, I think as long as students are
using the space, I think that's what matters most. That's what it's there for. I think it's great that you
know, peer educators can, I don't know if they're doing this now, but when I was there, I would go into
classrooms and I would teach curriculum to students about identity and allyship.
So I hope that they're still doing stuff like that because there are situations where I--where it impacts
the world, it impacts, you know, that, that macrocosm. And in turn we, you know, sometimes professors
don't know what to say and some of those students might be having a hard time being present, learning
about, I don't know, whatever subject, like microorganisms, (laughs), you know what I mean? And so
how can you as a professor tie in like what's going on in the world to address it, but also like be there for
the students in a way that, you know, maybe is not necessarily like a savior complex, but in a way that's
supportive. Like “I see you, I see that, you know, this could be something that, you may or may not be
noticing in life or affected by, but there's this place where you can go,” or like bringing in those students
to those classrooms. And nothing against the hard sciences. We love math, we love science. But you
know, sometimes those spaces are very black and white and the Cross-Cultural Center lives in a gray
space. And so to be able to show students that and help them with identity development, because like I
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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said, college is such a unique time. You’re a quasi-adult, but not really. And you have to take on all these
responsibilities in addition to graduating. So.
De Maria:
Yeah. Absolutely. My next question, and again this is going to kind of reference the current landscape of
CSUSM. So don't worry if you can't think of like a super accurate answer or anything. You can also
comment about the time, like around the time that you graduated and moved on. But what
communities do you feel are underrepresented on campus?
Bradley:
Hmm... I don't really know. I know like when I was a student... so, I know I, I definitely got involved with
like undocumented students ’cause that experience was something that I personally didn't have like
experience in. But I had a friend, several friends, who were undocumented. And I remember going to
Social Justice Summit and having that lightbulb. And we were talking about undocumented students and
I was like, “Oh my God.” Like I drove one of my friends who I know is undocumented and I didn't have
like (laughs), this is again, me living rebelliously. I was driving, and my license plate was expired or
something like that? And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” If I had gotten pulled over and this police officer
wasn't chill, I could have endangered my friend. And so, I think it grew my like empathy for that
community.
I remember their group was like, sort of active, sort of not, at the time when I was a student. I think
MEChA-DeMaria:
Um-hmm.
Bradley:
Is such a big organization like nationally that sometimes the undocumented experience kind of becomes
adjacent to that. So one of the friends that I was referring to, I believe she served in a leadership role
for, I don't remember what the name of that undocumented student organization was, but I remember
her talking about that and kind of trying to differentiate that group as a result. I also have another friend
that I still talk to today. She created an organization called Et Cetera. And her whole goal was to be a
catchall for the others. Like you're not really feeling like a certain cultural identity. Like maybe you don't
want to be in the math group, like maybe you don't want to be in a fraternity, like come to Et Cetera
(laughs). And so I thought that that was really cool that she wanted to create a space for individuals who
either like myself live in like a duality, or others who just maybe don't identify in a particular space.
Transcribed by
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TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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De Maria:
Totally. I have two questions left to just wrap things up. So first one, what is the most important lesson
you've taken from your experience with the Cross-Cultural Center?
Bradley:
There were so many lessons (both laughs). Definitely difficult to pick one. I think I, I, I learned my power.
And at that time I learned a, that I had power and leadership potential, but also that how to use it, in a
way that would affect change. Like I remember when--I hope that this tabloid paper doesn't exist on
that campus anymore. Because If it does, I'm driving (laughs) to make sure it's not there. But--they, it
was called The Koala. The Koala also existed on I think UCSD (University of California San Diego), but
basically it was a tabloid paper, and they would just write, just excuse my language, but like, bullshit
about people, about groups, about minority groups. And they're like, “Oh, but it's satire.” And I'm like,
“This still doesn't make it okay.” I was such an agitator to them that they put me in one of their editions.
And so I remember noticing that this was not okay, you know, me stepping into my power and then I
protested by myself. I was like, I'm gonna stand next to you. I'm not gonna say anything, but I'm gonna
hold this sign up, and I'm gonna stand next to you, so that other people understand that this is not okay
and that you shouldn't be passing this out on campus. And like my friends were like coming up to me
and they're like, “Oh my gosh, like you are so awesome for doing this." And I connected with other
campuses and I'm like, “What are you guys doing about this (laughs) paper?” Because you know, such
and such. And then I remember other people kind of in solidarity doing other things to expose the
students and who are doing these salacious things, like who the editor was (laughs). They wrote it on
the steps, like the steps that are next to the clock.
They wrote the names of all the members in the organization. This person is in it and this person is in it
and they want to hide, but (laughs), they're not gonna hide. We're gonna bring them to light. They
actually bit their--put their own shoe in their mouth. But I think the editor attempted to run for ASI
president.
De Maria:
Right?
Bradley:
And if he had accomplished his goal, that paper would've been basically passed out, like how the Cougar
News (student newspaper) gets passed out. But he ended up (laughs) fraud, like basically doing identity
theft and faking votes so that he could win. So I was like, “Well, not only did you lose, but you also are
gonna have to be prosecuted for like 500 counts of identity theft.” And that's a federal offense (laughs).
So I think it was a mixture of, you know, stepping into my power, but also knowing that I have, like I
have a cap, I have a battery, at some point my battery is gonna go down and I need to recharge.
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
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�CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
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So I think that was another lesson that I learned, was like how to recharge, how to self-preserve.
Because I know there were times that I was doing a lot of things. And even just thinking about it, I was
like, “That sounds like a lot like (laughs). When did you have you time?” I remember there was a point
where I had stopped making such a fuss about that paper, and there was a student who was doing a
class project where they were interviewing people about that paper. And I was like, I wrote in the
comments, I was like, “Don't stop agitating, keep going.” So even in my time of preservation, I was still
encouraging others to develop their power and what they found to be important for them.
De Maria:
Yeah. So comments on that. That's a really crazy intense story. And also just on a personal level, I'm glad
that you were there to be the initial agitator essentially. And you know, just, affect that change, like how
you said. So that's definitely a demonstration of power (laughs) used responsibly and for a good end.
Bradley:
Yeah.
De Maria:
Which is very, very cool. For my final question, I want to relate back to something you said at the very
beginning of the interview. You described feeling like an other in your community growing up in Orange
County. So, I just would like to know, as someone who has also felt like an other growing up in a
community, if someone feels that way, what tips or advice would you give them to start agitating or get
involved in social justice?
Bradley:
I mean--I feel like my experiences as an other sort of like, I describe it like a butterfly, because I am like-ambiguous (laughs) physically and mentally. I just kind of butterfly my way through groups and I learn
from all those experiences. So being an other doesn't necessarily have to define you into the other box.
It can give you capacity to be in every box. I remember my sister for those demographic questions
where they're like, “What race are you?” And she was like, “I just check all of them!” (laughs) So in a way
you just check all of them. You can go into this group, you can go into that group and people would
welcome me, like regardless. So that was like really nice, to experience. But also I think--
I don't know if every school campus has like a Social Justice Summit type of thing, but I honestly think
that something like that definitely informs the way that you develop in your social justice identity or
your social justice, activism. But honestly, you could, just join a march, like when they had the Women's
March or I think there was another march for all of the like school shootings that were happening that
were student led. Just being a part of grassroots organizations can shape that activist part in individuals
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�CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
2023-04-14
as well as shaping identity, you know. But I think what I noticed in school (laughs) is when you learn
about other cultures, especially in American history, it's terrible. They don't really put you into this really
wonderful light. It's like genocide, slavery, and then President Obama (laughs).
And you're like, okay--but where's all the in between? And so, you know, even just having literature, I
would hope you know that the Kellogg Library has a lot of options, but I had friends who gave me
literature that helped me to develop that part of myself and to see--people who looked like me that
were successful, but also people who were affecting change. Who were women, who were, you know,
minority groups, who were young. I think for me, growing up in a single parent household, you want to,
or at least for me, I wanted to see a strong woman and like my grandma, she's definitely a part of my
strong personality, but also it's like different when it's not your mom. And so for me, I was like looking
for that maternal figure and so I found it a lot in supervisors, or professors, and I was like, that's the kind
of woman that I want to be, who doesn't just sit and let things happen but will be willing to stand up for
what I believe in.
De Maria:
I think that's excellent advice. And again, just, a manifestation of taking pride in your identity rather than
allowing that box or that label to define you or your actions, even if those actions are advantageous to
social justice. So I completely get that.
Bradley:
Yeah
De Maria:
And with that, I know that we're at time. So I just wanted to thank you for taking the time out for this
interview, Chanel. We definitely covered a lot, in terms of your personal experience, and I also learned a
lot more about the CCC as I continue to interview more people for this project and kind of embark on
this journey myself. So overall, just wanted to thank you for opening up and allowing others to be part
of that experience and kind of understand what you went through and what you did.
Bradley:
Yeah, definitely. Well, if you want any contacts for other people--who to interview or if you have
enough, that's cool too. (Both laugh) If you want some of the OGs, (De Maria laughs) I still talk to them.
De Maria:
Absolutely. We'll talk offline, but (both laugh)
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
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�CHANEL BRADLEY
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW
2023-04-14
Bradley:
Yeah.
De Maria:
Thank you so much Chanel
Bradley:
You’re welcome, okay.
Transcribed by
Geneva Martinot
16
2023-10-06
�
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Transcripts
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Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files.
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Bradley, Chanel. Interview transcript. April 14, 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Chanel Bradley is a California State University San Marcos alumna. She graduated with her degree in Women's and Gender Studies in 2012. Chanel worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2012 and was involved in various social identity related causes on campus. In this interview, Chanel discusses her experience as a peer educator at the Cross-Cultural Center and her recollections of the center during her time at CSUSM. Bradley was also involved in the Women's Center [now Gender Equity Center]. In her interview, Bradley also recalls how she revived the campus Black Student Union, protested the unauthorized student newspaper, The Koala, and came into her power.
Creator
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Chanel Bradley
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Michael De Maria
Geneva Martinot
Date
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2023-04-12
Subject
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations -- California -- San Marcos
Education, Higher
Human rights
Minorities in higher education
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University University Library
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English
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Chanel Bradley
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text
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BradleyChanel_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-14_transcript
Activists and activism
Black experience
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Women's experience
-
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Oral Histories
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Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
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<p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p>
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Faye A. Jonason
Interviewee
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Leslee K. Roberts
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=RobertsLeslee_JonasonFaye_2022-11-29.xml
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5.4 Roberts, Leslee K. Interview November 11, 2022. SC027-23 0:38:15 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection Community oral histories CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm United States. Marine Corps Poway (Calif.) Women marines Korean War, 1950-1953 Veterans -- United States Telephone operators Leslee K. Roberts Faye A. Jonason mp4 RobertsLeslee_JonasonFaye_2022-11-29.mp4 1:|16(2)|32(7)|45(3)|64(2)|86(17)|113(4)|144(2)|174(4)|195(17)|225(13)|257(15)|284(3)|310(18)|335(4)|374(2)|406(7)|436(16)|459(15)|493(8)|511(16)|545(5)|594(12)|616(5)|639(6)|682(5)|719(11)|736(4)|753(13)|808(4)|852(2)|898(2)|932(5)|953(11)|989(11)|1019(4)|1050(9)|1089(10)|1156(10)|1167(16) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/73ed728127e92b4e01be2617427312f6.mp4 Other video English 0 Entering the Marine Corps/ Boot camp training Leslee Roberts discusses her decision to join the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War. She recounts growing up in Cleveland, OH and how she had originally joined the Sisters of Charity, but that her independent personality made her a difficult fit to become a nun. Her brother who had ambitions to join the Marine Corps later introduced her to a recruiter and she enlisted. Leslee also discusses her boot camp training at Parris Island and the strict grooming rules that were expected of women Marines. Cleveland (Ohio) ; Marine corps ; Nuns ; Parris Island (S.C.) ; Sisters of Charity ; U.S. marines ; U.S. military ; Vietnam War ; Women in the Marine Corps ; Women in the military 0 349 Assignment at Camp Pendleton Leslee Roberts discusses being assigned to Camp Pendleton in 1966 or 1967. She was around twenty-four years old. She worked in the Marine Corps Exchange and trained other Marines due to her previous work experience. It was during this period in which she met her husband. Camp Pendleton (Calif.) ; Marine Corps ; Marine Corps Exchange ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; U.S. marines ; U.S. military ; Women in the Marine Corps ; Women in the military 0 510 Working as a switchboard operator Leslee Roberts recounts her work as a switchboard operator in the Marines. She began this work prior to joining the Marines when she worked at the Salvation Army’s hospital. She briefly explains the technology behind the switchboard. She describes the most enjoyable part of the work was interacting with other people and learning about their day-to-day lives. Leslee also describes the Marine Corps uniforms that were worn during the summertime and wintertime. Camp Pendleton (Calif.) ; Marine Corps ; Marine Corps Exchange ; Marine Corps uniforms ; Military uniforms ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; Switchboard operator ; U.S. marines ; U.S. military ; Women in the Marine Corps ; Women in the military 0 746 Women Marine barracks at Camp Pendleton Leslee Roberts discusses living at the Women Marine barracks when she was assigned to Camp Pendleton. She describes the experience as unpleasant and lived there for less than a year before moving off base. She explains that the Woman Marine barracks were “squad based” and that Marines had to maintain their quarters to strict regulations. Leslee also briefly describes the social life in the barracks and how rank and rules affected daily life for the Marines. Barracks ; Camp Pendleton (Calif.) ; Marine Corps ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; U.S. marines ; U.S. military ; Women in the Marine Corps ; Women in the military ; Women Marine barracks 0 1042 Marriage Leslee Roberts describes her marriage to her husband who she met while assigned to Camp Pendleton. Her husband was a Gunnery Sergeant. They moved to Oceanside, CA after getting married and lived in Oceanside for five years before moving to Poway, CA. She explains that she continued to work for the Marine Corps Exchange after getting married. She also recounts the various military regulations that she and her husband had to jump through in order to get married. She explains that due to her low rank and her gender, she had to ask permission to marry her husband from her Commanding Officer. She also explains that she received an honorable discharge once she became pregnant. Camp Pendleton (Calif.) ; Gunnery Sergeant ; Marine Corps ; Marine Corps Exchange ; Marriage ; Military regulations ; Oceanside (Calif.) ; Poway (Calif.) ; Pregnancy ; U.S. marines ; U.S. military ; Women in the Marine Corps ; Women in the military 0 1318 Living in San Diego County Leslee Roberts describes her current life in San Diego County. She has lived in the same house in Poway, CA since 1972. She explains how Poway was a new community and that she enjoyed watching it grow. She recalls participating in events, greeting new citizens in Poway, and watching the construction of various developments and schools. Community center ; Developming community ; North County San Diego ; Poway (Calif.) ; San Diego (Calif.) ; San Diego County ; Schools 0 1545 Reflecting on the Marine Corps Leslee Roberts reflects on the Marine Corps from a gender lens. She explains that while women were seen as second-class citizens during the Vietnam War, that men and women both enlist for the same reasons. She expresses her how she is glad to see women being granted the same honor and privileges as men in the military in the twenty-first century. Gender ; Marine Corps ; Sexism ; U.S. marines ; U.S. military ; Women in the Marine Corps ; Women in the military 0 1676 The community of Poway, CA Leslee Roberts continues to reflects on the community of Poway, CA. She recalls the history of Poway’s schools that eventually led to the formation of Poway Unified School District. She also discusses the fight to create a community center and a community pool. Leslee also discusses the complicated relationship between North County and the City of San Diego, such as North County citizens having to abide by San Diego tax laws or relying on San Diego to fix their streets. Community center ; Developing community ; North County San Diego ; Poway (Calif.) ; Poway Unified School District ; San Diego (Calif.) ; San Diego County ; Schools ; Taxes 0 Oral history An oral history interview with Leslee K. Roberts, a Marine Corps veteran, who shares her experiences growing up in Ohio, deciding not to become a nun and choosing to leave Ohio by joining the U.S. Marine Corps. She discusses some military regulations, meeting and marrying her husband, and her various homes in North County. She talks about her involvement and support of the Poway community as well as Poway’s early development. Faye Jonason: Good afternoon. It is November 29th, 2002―22, and we are at the
 ; Marine Corps Mechanized Museum. And I am interviewing―my name is Faye Jonason
 ; and I’m interviewing Leslee Roberts, and we’re doing this for CSU San Marcos’s
 ; Program for Oral History and for Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton’s Oral
 ; History Archives. So, thank you for being here.
 ; 
 ; Leslee Roberts: My pleasure.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And I’m going to ask you your name—your full name—and for you to spell
 ; your last name, please.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes. My name is Leslee Kaye Roberts. That’s R-O-B-E-R-T-S.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And you were in the Marine Corps!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes,
 ; 
 ; ma’am.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, I’d like to know, very much, how you came about the decision and
 ; how you came to the Marine Corps.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (sighs) That’s a bit of a story. Um, number one, I have a―I had a
 ; brother and it was his dream to become a Marine. He was about four years younger
 ; than I and that’s all he ever talked about. Number one. That was not originally
 ; my ambition. I joined the Sisters of Charity to become a nun and that did not
 ; work out too well. I’m very independent individual, had hard time conforming.
 ; So, I was told that I would not fit with the Sisters of Charity. So, I left.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Now this was in Cleveland?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: This was in Cleveland. Uh, like
 ; 
 ; I was, uh, in my twenties, and I had no job, and I bounced around for a while,
 ; and my brother—bless his heart—kept telling me “Join the Marine Corps. Join the
 ; Marine Corps.” It was something that he had desired and something that he worked
 ; at for—all through his high school years. He even knew the, um, recruiter, okay?
 ; So, he introduced me to the recruiter and the young man convinced me
 ; that—what–what’s three years—okay? So, at the time I was doing nothing, and I
 ; said, all right. And I put my hand in the air and I became a Marine.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (laughs) What did your family think about that?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: They weren’t too happy. My mom—she always went along with whatever
 ; decision I made,
 ; 
 ; within reason. My dad took it very hard. It was during the Vietnam War, and he
 ; even laid his head in my lap and cried, “Please don’t do this!” But it was too
 ; late. I already had my hand in the air and I belonged to the United States of America.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (chuckles) Okay. So, what happened next?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I went to bootcamp!
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Where?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Parris Island, and spent a good s–almost eight weeks—I guess it was—in training.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: What did they train you to do?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: To be honest, as I kind of mentioned here before, um, the whole idea of
 ; boot camp wasn’t any different than becoming a sister for Sisters of Charity.
 ; (Jonason laughs) The whole idea of both institutions was to take my personality,
 ; take me
 ; 
 ; (points to herself) away and to think as one individual. I was not allowed to
 ; have individual thoughts or ideas. And the Marine Corps was basically the same.
 ; You were to think as one unit and not as a person, but as one unit.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And so, you’re training―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: In–in the Marine Corps? Boot camp is basically the same. There was a
 ; lot of, uh, book learning to learn whatever. There was a lot of marching,
 ; learning to follow rules. Um, I don’t know if I can be any more specific than that.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did they teach—you know—I know the Marine Corps taught makeup to some women.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (shaking her head) No. I was never taught about makeup.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: You were—you weren’t taught ―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: You weren’t even allowed to wear makeup.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (clears her throat) Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Okay? The—one of the things I remember the most is your hair had to be short.
 ; 
 ; It could touch the collar (points to her collarbone) but not cover the collar.
 ; But, again, I didn’t follow those rules and I got away with it.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Hm.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (sighs) I have a hard time conforming, still do.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: The rule was it could not—it could–it could touch but not cover, you
 ; know, the–the collar (gestures to her shoulder area). So, all I did was wear it
 ; up. And as long as I got up every day before Reveille was called, I made sure my
 ; hair was up and I had eyebrows on, because you weren’t allowed to wear make up either.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh. (laughs)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (shrugs) So―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, you got your training in Parris Island.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And then what happened? Where did you go after that?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, I was given leave, for two weeks and I—while I was in boot camp, I
 ; had choices. I didn’t
 ; 
 ; necessarily—I wouldn’t necessarily get those choices. But, I asked for San
 ; Diego, California. And I got California! (she smiles)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And why did you ask for San Diego, California?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Because I’d never been out of Ohio.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh, okay. And did they say―I guess they sent you to San Diego.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: They did, all the way to Camp Pendleton.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. And what year was that? Do you know?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I believe it was ’66, ’67, yeah.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. And how–how were you assigned your job?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, (sighs) that’s a good question. I assumed my job—Number one, I was
 ; a bit of older recruit, okay? And I had experience in working—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: You said you were in your twenties.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I was around twenty-four.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: So, that made me a little bit older than most recruits coming in. They
 ; were eighteen, nineteen—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —years old. Because I had the experience, they took that experience and
 ; they gave me an M.O.S., which was forty-one eleven, which was an Exchange person
 ; accou–accountant and Commissary accountant.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And you say you also did some kind of interviewing or training other Marines.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: When I got into working for—in the Exchange—I did—I interviewed people
 ; to work in the Exchange, okay?
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: And hired them. I worked in Personnel.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: And handled most stuff regarding that.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And how long did you do that?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: For the three years that I was in.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And what do you remember best about your time at Camp Pendleton during
 ; that time.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I met my husband.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Ah! (chuckles) And how did you meet your husband?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: He also worked
 ; 
 ; in the Exchange. Of course, he was higher up than I was. And, he ran his own
 ; store. And, um, at times I was a switchboard―I would work the switchboard and
 ; relieve at lunch time. And we got to communicating on the switchboard, and he
 ; finally come over and introduced himself.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: And I don’t have to tell you, from that point on, we clicked!
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. Tell me about your switchboard work, because that doesn’t exist
 ; anymore, does it?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: What was that like?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: ―not that I know of. Um, I enjoyed it, okay? It was work that I also
 ; did at the hospital when I worked for the Salvation Army (unintelligible). And
 ; um, so because I had that experience it was on my record, so to speak. And when
 ; I went to work for the Exchange, I kind of relieved people. I worked in the office.
 ; 
 ; We were all in the same facility. And I would relieve them for lunch, or if
 ; someone called in sick, or whatever, so―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: How does the―most―myself, I have never run a switchboard.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: How would I go about doing that?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, that’s kind of hard to say! (laughs) And that’s—you know—a
 ; switchboard! Um, it was just another way of communicating from phone to phone
 ; within the offices. And each phone had a number, and there was a number on the
 ; board, and there were the cords that you would plug in outside or you could plug
 ; them into each other.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh, okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, it’s like something you―like—I’m trying to think of what they’re called.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I can’t think of anything at this time that would―I could compare it
 ; to, except if you had a–a phone with buttons, you know.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Yeah. Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: You just plugged them in!
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Interesting, interesting. And so, you were here for three years and what
 ; 
 ; were your uniforms that you were required to wear while you were working and
 ; while you were doing other―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I always was in uniform.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Which was?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Summertime, wintertime. I worked with the uniform.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: What―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I was in the Marine Corps.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: —what kind of uniform?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: In the summertime, we had a–a light uniform, fit for the weather. In
 ; the winter, we had a much heavier, darker-colored uniform.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. And you always had to wear a cover outside?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Outside, always.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. Is there anything about that work experience that you would like
 ; to tell us about?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, you got to meet a lot of people!
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Yeah?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Always. And uh, it was always—it was a bit fun, in a way, because you
 ; could for months communicate with an individual and talk and say, “How was your day?”
 ; 
 ; and “Oh, I just had a baby,” or whatever, okay? And never, ever see their faces.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Uh, (chuckles) okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: So, that was kind of different. Yes. And it was always a fun experience
 ; when they were able to come and say “Hi, I’m so-and-so. I work for―” whatever.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, were there civilians that came in and shopped where you were?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, absolutely! I mean, this was a Commissar―uh, well, at the time it
 ; was an Exchange, the Military Exchange. And of course, all civilians, troops―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Their families.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Their families, absolutely. Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Were there any special events that associated with your–your work?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Can you be more specific?
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did they hold any special events at—I guess—at the exchange.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No. We–we celebrated the Marine Corps birthday, uh―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did they close down the store? Did you have spe―I mean, what did they
 ; do for that?
 ; 
 ; (clears her throat)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Bec–being civilian, not a lot, okay? Because not only the military
 ; shopped there ; their families did, which was not military, okay? Um, the―we
 ; would be closed on holidays. And, we were just like any outside, whether you
 ; were working at Target or J.C. Penny or whatever.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. Um―
 ; 
 ; (A second interviewer, Maryellen Cortellini, seems to be asking Leslee a
 ; question, because Leslee looks to her right, away from Faye.)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: (less audible) Where did you live when you first got to Camp Pendleton?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I didn’t hear the question.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Excuse me. What was the question? (It sounds as though Jonason turns to
 ; ask the Cortellini to repeat the question.)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Where did she live?
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh, where did you live when you first came to Camp Pendleton?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I lived in the W.M., Women Marine’s barracks. Um, it was not my cup of
 ; tea. And when I was able, I moved off base. It wasn’t quite, um, legal, but I did.
 ; 
 ; I had a― (sighs) there was a―I can’t remember her rank. I think she was a Staff
 ; Sergeant, and she was being transferred to, um, Virginia, and she had pets, and
 ; she knew I did not like living in the barracks with a bunch of teenagers. So,
 ; she offered me her home if I would take care of her pets! And—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —I moved off base, oh, within eight months or so and lived in Carlsbad.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: And took care of her home and her pets.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, how long had you stayed in the Women Marine barracks themselves?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, actually, it wasn’t even a full year.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. And these were wooden buildings?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No. At the―these were new barracks that they had just recently built.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, they were, what, squad based?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Squad based! Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: How many―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: A great big―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: ―bunks?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Well, I think we had about twenty in the squad bay I lived in. And you
 ; were judged—you were put in the squad bay according to your rank.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And so, you’re–you’re one bunk above and below?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Exactly.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And you were required to keep them a certain way.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Absolutely.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Regulation.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: You had–you had, um, I can’t remember the exact term. Forgive me.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Junk on the bunk?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No, uh―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (laughs) That’s what I was told.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: We―well, not then! We had to maintain and keep them clean, okay? And
 ; so, it was a–a group thing that was done once a week, no matter what your rank
 ; was. You were required, you know. Wash floors, windows, whatever.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did you also do other things besides your job in maintaining the–the
 ; barracks? Did you―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh! Had a good time! (both she and Jonason chuckle)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Well, you did more than that, I know! (Roberts laughs) Did they have
 ; you do—picking
 ; 
 ; up around the barracks, and―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: ―all that kind of stuff?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes. We had, um, um―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Field day?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Outside to maintain the—you know—the grass, and the bushes and
 ; whatever. Yes, that was also part of our requirement. We were to treat it like
 ; it was our home. And we would do those things if we were within our own home. So.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Had you ever gone to the Green Hat Club?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No. The Green Hat Club was after me.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Okay? I’m not sure what year. Yes, there were a lot of, uh–uh, what do
 ; you call them, um―
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: (inaudible)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —officers clubs. There were different clubs for different rank and of
 ; course I was a peon, so I―till I made sergeant, but yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: How did ch–becoming sergeant change your life?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It gave―it made me more independent.
 ; 
 ; I didn’t have to follow some of the rules and regulations.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, did you live―you said you lived in the barracks about a year. So,
 ; you lived in the–in the Staff Sergeant’s house about two?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: About two years. Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. And then what did―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Not legally, but I did. (both she and Jonason laugh.)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Well, nowadays, you’d get permissions or something. Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I’m not sure (smiles wide).
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (laughs) Um, is there any other part of that work that you’d like to
 ; share with us?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: As far as the military is concerned?
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: In a way, um, it was―I think once I left the military, I was more
 ; conscious of my responsibility when I was in the Marine Corps.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: The motto of a W.M., which we were called—Women Marines—was to release
 ; a fighting man. And of course, it was during the Vietnam War, and it was a
 ; 
 ; difficult time for the United States and for everyone. So, I didn’t think about
 ; it a lot but once I left the military, I realized what my job was or had been,
 ; to help win that war.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: You–you appreciated it more?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Much more.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And so, then when you left you got married?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes, I did.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And where did you go?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: In fact, I don’t know. I don’t remember all the times, but my husband
 ; who was stationed here at Camp Pendleton and his career was basically here,
 ; okay? He was a Gunnery Sergeant and he owned a home in Oceanside. And so, when
 ; we—naturally when we got married, I moved into his home in Oceanside.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And how long did you stay there?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (sighs) Uh, quite a few years. We didn’t move out—I guess I was there
 ; 
 ; at least five years, at least five years, and then we bought a home elsewhere in
 ; San Diego. He retired.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Why did you like San Diego?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: He liked San Diego.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did you?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes, I guess so. My children were born here. It became my home. Uh,
 ; yes. Yes. I liked it.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did you work outside the home once you were married?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I did, but not until my children got a little older. I actually went to
 ; work for the Marine Corps Exchange. (both she and Jonason laugh)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. And how long did you do that?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, now you’re asking a question you have to think about. It was a few years.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Yeah?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I would say five or six years. Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. Well, that’s good.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: What was the Marine Corps reaction to your announcement that you
 ; wanted to get married?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I–I—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh, you said—Yeah!—How did you―when you decided
 ; 
 ; to get married, there were regulations that you had to jump through before you
 ; could do that.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (chuckles) Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Both you and your husband.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Being―being a–a low rank, number one, and being a woman Marine, I had
 ; to ask permission from my C.O., the sergeant in charge, and—which I had to do.
 ; Uh, between you and me, I did it because it was considered one of my
 ; responsibilities. Otherwise, I thought it was a silly rule.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (chuckles) And your husband had to do the same thing, right?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Well, he did. He did. And my―for me, he did it for me. Not so much for
 ; himself. He’d been married before. His first wife had passed. So, um, he was a–a
 ; bit youn–older than I am or was. And um, so no he didn’t. But, he did,
 ; 
 ; for me. Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: He asked permission for you.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Right. We went together.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh! Very interesting. And were there any other situa―parts of that that
 ; were required?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No, because when we married, there–there was no problem. But because of
 ; our age, okay, we wanted a family. And the–the motto of the Marine Corps was if
 ; we wanted you to have a child, we’d issued you one.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: I see.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: So, as soon as I became pregnant, I was automatically dis–discharged.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (coughs) Excuse me.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I got an honorable discharge, but, yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Huh.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: So, that’s how I left.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Interesting. And were you―after you were married, you moved into his
 ; house. Were you still a Marine at that poin–time?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: I’m trying to clarify that.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, until I became―
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Pregnant.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: ―pregnant. Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay. (
 ; 
 ; Roberts: We lived there for two children.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (chuckles)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: He retired. He went to work for the Post Office and we moved into San
 ; Diego area.
 ; 
 ; Terry Norwood: Where were your children—(barely audible) first and second—born?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Camp Pendleton, at the old hospital.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Because he was still in the military? Or―
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No. We were―because he was what is considered a lifer, someone who put
 ; in twenty-two years of his life. He continued to have privileges—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Ah.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —military privileges.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, he wasn’t in the Corps still, when they were born?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And what did he do?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: My husband went to work for the U.S. Post Office.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Mm-hmm. He took the test and passed and–and continued to work there for
 ; thirty years.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Wonderful!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And I understand that you’re still living in San Diego area.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, actually I live in the same house.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (chuckles) Oh, my goodness!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Live in the same house. We bought a new home outside of Poway and I’ve
 ; lived there ever since. I think it was 1972, or something like that.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Wow! You must like it there.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It’s paid for! (she chuckles and Jonason laughs) For sure!
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Are there parts of the community that you enjoy more than others?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: In–in San Diego? San Diego?—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: In Poway, San Diego County.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, you know, I had two other children born there, and, um, it—number
 ; one, it was very new. We were one of the first housing developments in the area.
 ; So, basically, I watched it grow (raises her hands to indicate something
 ; growing) into this huge community.
 ; 
 ; And, um, I felt like it was home. And yes, I do. I like it there. I can’t think
 ; of any place else.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: (unintelligible, but sounds like “Chopped Liver”)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, I’m not sure. A pool, oh (shrugs)—as far as activities—(looking at
 ; Cortellini) is that–is that what we’re talking about? Okay—
 ; 
 ; Norwood: What do you like about the community?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh! I did—yes, I’m talking about the beginning of living in the
 ; community and why I stayed there. Uh, I’m very active. Well, I won’t say active
 ; but I have a lot of activities within the community since I’ve lived there. So—
 ; I like to swim and do water aerobics, and—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: This is a community pool, I take it? Or—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes, it is. Number one, I–I got to watch the community grow. Like I
 ; said, we were one of the first developments in the area, housing developments,
 ; and so I got to watch
 ; 
 ; it grow.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: There must be a story about being one of the first of the development.
 ; Was there—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: —an event or something?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —number one, now you want me to be silly? It was a ch—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: No. (laughs)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, okay. (laughs also) No, it was just a very new community and it was
 ; fun greeting all the new people and watching different developments grow,
 ; watching schools being built and my children being able to go to those schools.
 ; I know—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Did you get to pick specific flooring and that type of thing in your
 ; house wh—at that time? Was that something that—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Pretty much.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: —Yeah?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Pretty much so. Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I mean, the house was built and then I did what I wanted to the inside
 ; of it (smiles wide) and outside, of course.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: But that wasn’t with the builder, though. That was on your own, right?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: That was on my own.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Interesting. Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (apparently she turns to Cortellini) Are there other questions that you
 ; would like to see asked?
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Um, it would be nice if she (rest of question is inaudible, but
 ; seems to be talking about entering something into a document)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Well, we’ll have that in the–in the file. Um—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Just the fact that she left her close-knit family and friends, and
 ; her small town of Eastlake, Ohio to travel all the way to South Carolina to
 ; enlist in Marine Corps bootcamp. How brave and courageous as a young woman to
 ; make that monumental decision.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (turning her head from Cortellini back to Jonason, smiling) She does—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Well, I think she–she went in from the frying pan into the fire—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: The fire.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: —didn’t you! (laughs)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Amen! (laughs also)
 ; 
 ; Norwood: But she’s a cast iron skillet.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (turning to Norwood): Pardon me?
 ; 
 ; Norwood: But you’re a cast iron skillet.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, is that—Oh, I–I’ve never quite thought of myself that way, but—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: (continuing to laugh) Yeah, but hey—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —I will take the compliment. (turns back to Jonason)
 ; 
 ; Norwood: And the other thing I think you could give perspective on is how the
 ; military has grown since you’ve been here.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, absolutely. Uh, as–for women? Yes, absolutely. Uh, it was—we
 ; 
 ; were considered second class citizens back in 1966. Like I think I said
 ; previously, we were given the title of releasing a fighter–a fighting man, okay?
 ; And we were supposed to, uh—our jobs basically were to fill in where the men
 ; would have to leave and we would fill in and take their jobs. So, it was—it’s
 ; different today. Women join the military exactly the reason that men do. They
 ; want the—They want to do something for their country, number one. I can’t speak
 ; for all of them, but yes. I think they—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —they have the same honor and privileges that they–you–this country
 ; offers their military. So, yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: If you had a message for a young Marine today, what would it be?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Whoa! (Jonason laughs)
 ; 
 ; Um, I really wouldn’t have a message for them. It—Number one, I believe it’s
 ; something that they—nowadays—let me put it this way. Nowadays, I think both men
 ; and women join the military because they want t–to, because it offers them
 ; something that they desire. Back in the day of, say, 1966, uh, men were drafted.
 ; Okay? And women were second class citizens. But they did it anyways, (shrugs)
 ; whatever their purpose—for their country ; for themselves ; for their family. So,
 ; times have changed.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay! Well, thank you very much.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: You’re very welcome.
 ; 
 ; (the video then stops and starts, and cuts off the beginning portion of what
 ; Leslee Roberts is saying, but she continues speaking, turning to Cortellini now:)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —San Diego people. Or we could become Poway people living in San
 ; 
 ; Diego.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: Mm. Okay. And that, I can’t tell you how huge that is to the
 ; education—well, this is not necessar—this is going off on a tangent—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No, no. It had a–had a big—yes. Because—
 ; 
 ; Norwood: It did!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: just a community—
 ; 
 ; Norwood: It did.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Mira Mesa, down the road is San Diego.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: So, we were given a choice, and we made it. And we made the Poway
 ; U—part, we helped make Poway Unified School what they are.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: That right there tells—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Is key.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —what this woman is about. So, to–I–just—and—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I never thought about it, but—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: (inaudible due to Jonason asking a further question)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: So, you’re saying that there was no Poway schools when you—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Poway, yes. Poway had their own little, uh—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: No, it wasn’t.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —They didn’t even have a high—They—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: They didn’t have a—They were not a unified school district until late—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No, they weren’t. Until much later.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: But, did–did they have a school?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh yes. They had several, um, elementary schools. What was that? (turns
 ; from Jonason to Cortellini) They had Poway High—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: They had one—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: — and one middle school.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —one middle school.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: And they, and they were—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (turns to Jonason) Midland. Yeah, it was Midland. (holds up her left hand)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: They were part of Escondido. They weren’t really in their s–unified
 ; school district,—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No, they weren’t considered—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: but they were—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: But they—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It was—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: And then we had (inaudible)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It was–Actually, it was–it was considered—it was kind of a country town.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It was just this country little, country city. They were themselves,
 ; okay? And, um, they did have schools for their kids and whatnot. But that was
 ; very small, very limited. I can’t even begin to tell you—Even now, there’s only
 ; one main—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Okay. I’m st—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —road, going through Poway, and it’ll always be the main th–main road
 ; through Poway because everyone built to the sidewalks! There’s no way of
 ; widening it. (Jonason laughs) There’s no way of expanding it. (Jonason clears
 ; her throat) It’s all the way up to, uh, Ramona, bay–basically.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: So, now, I’m going to the Poway Museum and the R.B. Museum to see
 ; what historical data is there, because based on more—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Now—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —info about the school district and how it came to be, because—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: See,
 ; 
 ; now Rancho Bernardo was—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —that is really—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Rancho Bernardo was always there. It was considered more—back in
 ; (lowers voice) those (back to speaking voice) days, it was, uh, for seniors.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Seniors.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It was more of a senior place.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: It was a community planned—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: And um, yes.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: And, uh, they did attend, those that were–that lived in, say, Rancho
 ; Bernardo. They did attend the Poway school. Okay? Those were the—That was the
 ; only school district around. San Diego was a little far ou– far away for them.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: But–but it wasn’t even a formed Unified School District in the early 70s.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Till much later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Okay. And then, also, um, you’re–you’re being modest. You haven’t
 ; been asked to write your history, so I get it.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (turns to Jonason and shrugs)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: But just sitting here, I’m thinking of how you guys fought for the
 ; community center,—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, yeah.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —the pool that you swim in.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: You know? All the things—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: And what happened with the community center?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It was a—We wanted it. They made it. Um, (sighs) how do I say it? It–it
 ; wa–I guess—it
 ; 
 ; wasn’t—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: The city—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —exactly a community—how–how–what would you call the pool, ‘cuz I’ve
 ; been going there for twenty years.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Yeah. It was a community center.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: It was.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Um, and the city decided to change—all that nastiness out of my
 ; mouth real quick—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: You can say it. I–my ears are used to it. (Jonason chuckles)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Then, um, this—When the city decided that to change their Charter
 ; and a lot of their zoning and who they were going to support or–or–in–like–They
 ; were no longer going to have a senior center. Okay? And they were—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —no longer going to have a community pool. But the community rallied—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: But it was considered growing, and they wanted to grow into something
 ; besides Poway which we kind of fought for.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: And, yet, they didn’t want to bring in a Y.M.C.A. They wanted to be—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —their own thing and have it be bigger. But it’s just not what the
 ; people wanted at the time.
 ; 
 ; So, these ladies were part of the movement.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Well, back then, yeah, we kind of steadfast and we voted.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: How were you—How old were your kids at that time?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh they were—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Oh, this was only like ten years ago.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yeah. Well—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: But–but I—but I’ve only known you for maybe ten—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Sss—Yeah. Bu–bu–well, when they started building schools—This was the
 ; thing that–that we fought for. Number one was technically, technically I live in
 ; San Diego. Okay? But Poway is our school district. Poway is our hospitals. Poway
 ; is, you know, all the stuff that makes a city a city. We were able to stay in
 ; that group, and—well, Rancho Bernardo, too. But we—whereas just down the road
 ; about three or four miles, we have San Diego, Mira Mesa,
 ; 
 ; some of the other ones.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: It’s very—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: They’re all San Diego, so they have to follow the San Diego taxes, the
 ; San Diego whatever, whatever.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Well, we do too.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No, no, I know. But I’m trying to think of things.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: It’s very convoluted up where we are. It took me a while to wrap my
 ; head around—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Everything.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: —how in the world could we be part of Poway Unified when we’re a San
 ; Di—city of San Diego address. It was really complex.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: We—But we kind of fought for that. In fact, I can remember Mount Carmel—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Well, I’m grateful (chuckles)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: —Mount Carmel wa—uh, all the kids in my–in our area went to Poway High,
 ; went to Midland Junior High, okay? S–and–and the elementary school. And my kids
 ; started off at Me–Meadowbrook. Meadowbrook? (looks toward Jonason)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Whatever, for kindergarten through ninth, (Jonason coughs) or whatever
 ; it was, until we fought for our own schools (Jonason coughs) and our own area.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Hhm, that’s interesting.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: So, I mean, yeah. I can remember when they built
 ; 
 ; the high school.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Do you?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Carmel Mountain.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: You’re a legend in my community, girl.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (laughs) I don’t know about that, but— (Jonason laughs) we
 ; didn’t—Poway, um, was recognized as having a very good school system, okay? Or,
 ; whatever. And we wanted to continue with what Poway was giving to our students.
 ; Where San Diego was—I mean, look at San Diego. San Diego is a huge place, and
 ; it’s gotten huger, so—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Is Poway considered part of North County?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes. So—
 ; 
 ; Norwood: And, for many, many, many, many, many years, Rancho Bernardo, where I
 ; live—She lives in Poway, but sh–very close to R.B., um, but she’s not affected
 ; like we are because she’s in Poway. So, R.B. is the farthest north of San Diego.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: San Diego, yep (nodding).
 ; 
 ; Norwood: She is right
 ; 
 ; beneath us.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: On the edge, Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: We are North County and we are–don’t—We have to fight for the city of
 ; San Diego to fix our streets, to—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: To do whatever.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: To–to do whatever we need—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Right.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: —because we’re so far north. They forget about us. They’ll take our tax revenue—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, they do take that!
 ; 
 ; Norwood: —but they’ll forget about us, which is one of–just one of many reasons
 ; why we wanted to integrate into our own sch–school system up there.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, no. I—
 ; 
 ; Norwood: Because it was so small, we could be more vocal. We could give more
 ; input into a smaller school district versus being a part of San Diego.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Well, parents were included. You were invited to come to the–to the
 ; school board meetings. You were, you know what I mean? You were invited to
 ; participate in becoming a school board member—I mean—so, you were part of it.
 ; Where as far as San Diego is concerned, which is—like I said—just five miles
 ; down the road, um, they were totally into, uh,
 ; 
 ; San Diego, (shrugs) Mira Mesa and all the ones around there now. So— (shrugs)
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Aah, we did that a bit, I guess. I don’t— (laughs) We fought for it.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Well, it sounds like you’re a very active person in your community.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Uh, (sighs, shaking her head), that was a long time ago. This old lady
 ; has settled in. (she and Jonason laugh) I’m not as active as I used to be.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: I just wanted to say. You know, when I first met Leslee, before I
 ; knew she was a Marine, over time, I started calling her “our fearless leader”
 ; (Roberts and Jonason laugh) at the pool, because she had this wonderful way of
 ; recruiting more people and she—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I had a mouth!
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: She singlehandedly—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: It’s a good thing!
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: She–but she s—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: When I don’t agree with you, you’re gonna hear about it. (all laugh)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: She’s still humble about it. But, she singlehandedly turned a water
 ; aerobics, or water exercise class into a family. That’s how we became friends.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yes.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Oh.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: She roped me in, and she writes–ropes in everybody!
 ; 
 ; (laughs)
 ; 
 ; Norwood: Yes. She makes you feel wanted.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: She makes you feel like a family, and then makes everyone feels
 ; welcome, and now, they—you wouldn’t believe the size of our water aerobics.
 ; We’re up to forty-plus people (somewhat unintelligible, faint voice, and there
 ; is background traffic noise)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I know.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: And that’s the summer.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Well, I think we have around, about thirty permanent, you know, oldies
 ; but goodies.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: That’s—but that’s also—
 ; 
 ; Norwood: (can’t distinguish what she says, due to crosstalk)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: In the summertime.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Seriously. I give you credit for that, and you really—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Oh, not totally. There were—
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: But, she’s—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Look at Doreen,
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: And see, that’s where
 ; 
 ; Norwood: (unintelligible, due to crosstalk)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Doreen.
 ; 
 ; (Norwood and Cortellini crosstalk ; unintelligible)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Yeah. It wasn’t just me.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: (first few words unintelligible) incorporated those values, a team and—
 ; 
 ; Jonason: You feel that? Do you feel that the Marine Corps has helped you be
 ; organized and get people together?
 ; 
 ; Roberts: I never thought about it, ‘cuz I was always a mouth.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Well, but—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: Why do you think they kicked me out of the Sisterhood.
 ; 
 ; Jonason: Because you needed to be a Marine. (laughs)
 ; 
 ; Roberts: No. Because I didn’t fit in. (laughs)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: What did we go to the Mayor’s office for?
 ; 
 ; Norwood: Oh, that was film week again. (next few words unintelligible)
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (nodding) Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: Still! Still!
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: Leslee has—I know—Leslee has been an advocate for myself,
 ; 
 ; my project, my books. She—
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (to Jonason) Like I said, I’m a mouth.
 ; 
 ; Cortellini: She has shared my books with everybody.
 ; 
 ; Roberts: (to Jonason) And sometimes, if you’re loud enough, people just don’t
 ; say no to you.
 ; 
 ; Norwood: I called her my agent there—she still is my agent (rest of sentence is unintelligible).
 ; 
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Title
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Roberts, Leslee K. Interview November 11, 2022.
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Leslee K. Roberts, a Marine Corps veteran, who shares her experiences growing up in Ohio, deciding not to become a nun and choosing to leave Ohio by joining the U.S. Marine Corps. She discusses some military regulations, meeting and marrying her husband, and her various homes in North County. She talks about her involvement and support of the Poway community as well as Poway’s early development.
Identifier
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SC027-23
Subject
The topic of the resource
Camp Pendleton (Calif.)
Korean War, 1950-1953
Switchboard operators
United States. Marine Corps
Veterans -- United States
Women marines
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-23
Format
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video
Creator
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Leslee K. Roberts
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Faye A. Jonason
Maryellen Cortellini
Terry Norwood
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Poway (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
Rights Holder
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Leslee K. Roberts
Rights
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<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a>
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Veteran experience
Women's experience
-
https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/a4eab2eb7098e5cb2da2844a583b4393.pdf
529a5a1d54025024f7f1fcfe7d125d1d
PDF Text
Text
Transcript created March 31, 2023
Transcript
Faye Jonason: Good afternoon. It is November 29th, 2002―22, and we are at the Marine Corps
Mechanized Museum. And I am interviewing―my name is Faye Jonason and I’m interviewing
Leslee Roberts, and we’re doing this for CSU San Marcos’s Program for Oral History and for
Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton’s Oral History Archives. So, thank you for being here.
Leslee Roberts: My pleasure.
Jonason: And I’m going to ask you your name—your full name—and for you to spell your last
name, please.
Roberts: Yes. My name is Leslee Kaye Roberts. That’s R-O-B-E-R-T-S.
Jonason: And you were in the Marine Corps!
Roberts: Yes, ma’am.
Jonason: So, I’d like to know, very much, how you came about the decision and how you came
to the Marine Corps.
Roberts: (sighs) That’s a bit of a story. Um, number one, I have a―I had a brother and it was his
dream to become a Marine. He was about four years younger than I and that’s all he ever talked
about. Number one. That was not originally my ambition. I joined the Sisters of Charity to
become a nun and that did not work out too well. I’m very independent individual, had hard time
conforming. So, I was told that I would not fit with the Sisters of Charity. So, I left.
Jonason: Now this was in Cleveland?
Roberts: This was in Cleveland. Uh, like I was, uh, in my twenties, and I had no job, and I
bounced around for a while, and my brother—bless his heart—kept telling me “Join the Marine
Corps. Join the Marine Corps.” It was something that he had desired and something that he
worked at for—all through his high school years. He even knew the, um, recruiter, okay? So, he
introduced me to the recruiter and the young man convinced me that—what–what’s three
years—okay? So, at the time I was doing nothing, and I said, all right. And I put my hand in the
air and I became a Marine.
Jonason: (laughs) What did your family think about that?
Roberts: They weren’t too happy. My mom—she always went along with whatever decision I
made, within reason. My dad took it very hard. It was during the Vietnam War, and he even laid
his head in my lap and cried, “Please don’t do this!” But it was too late. I already had my hand in
the air and I belonged to the United States of America.
1
�Jonason: (chuckles) Okay. So, what happened next?
Roberts: I went to bootcamp!
Jonason: Where?
Roberts: Parris Island, and spent a good s–almost eight weeks—I guess it was—in training.
Jonason: What did they train you to do?
Roberts: To be honest, as I kind of mentioned here before, um, the whole idea of boot camp
wasn’t any different than becoming a sister for Sisters of Charity. (Jonason laughs) The whole
idea of both institutions was to take my personality, take me (points to herself) away and to think
as one individual. I was not allowed to have individual thoughts or ideas. And the Marine Corps
was basically the same. You were to think as one unit and not as a person, but as one unit.
Jonason: And so, you’re training―
Roberts: In–in the Marine Corps? Boot camp is basically the same. There was a lot of, uh, book
learning to learn whatever. There was a lot of marching, learning to follow rules. Um, I don’t
know if I can be any more specific than that.
Jonason: Did they teach—you know—I know the Marine Corps taught makeup to some women.
Roberts: (shaking her head) No. I was never taught about makeup.
Jonason: You were—you weren’t taught ―
Roberts: You weren’t even allowed to wear makeup.
Jonason: (clears her throat) Okay.
Roberts: Okay? The—one of the things I remember the most is your hair had to be short. It could
touch the collar (points to her collarbone) but not cover the collar. But, again, I didn’t follow
those rules and I got away with it.
Jonason: Hm.
Roberts: (sighs) I have a hard time conforming, still do.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: The rule was it could not—it could–it could touch but not cover, you know, the–the
collar (gestures to her shoulder area). So, all I did was wear it up. And as long as I got up every
day before Reveille was called, I made sure my hair was up and I had eyebrows on, because you
weren’t allowed to wear make up either.
Jonason: Oh. (laughs)
Roberts: (shrugs) So―
Jonason: So, you got your training in Parris Island.
2
�Roberts: Yes.
Jonason: And then what happened? Where did you go after that?
Roberts: Uh, I was given leave, for two weeks and I—while I was in boot camp, I had choices. I
didn’t necessarily—I wouldn’t necessarily get those choices. But, I asked for San Diego,
California. And I got California! (she smiles)
Jonason: And why did you ask for San Diego, California?
Roberts: Because I’d never been out of Ohio.
Jonason: Oh, okay. And did they say―I guess they sent you to San Diego.
Roberts: They did, all the way to Camp Pendleton.
Jonason: Okay. And what year was that? Do you know?
Roberts: I believe it was ’66, ’67, yeah.
Jonason: Okay. And how–how were you assigned your job?
Roberts: Uh, (sighs) that’s a good question. I assumed my job—Number one, I was a bit of older
recruit, okay? And I had experience in working—
Jonason: You said you were in your twenties.
Roberts: I was around twenty-four.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: So, that made me a little bit older than most recruits coming in. They were eighteen,
nineteen—
Jonason: Oh!
Roberts: —years old. Because I had the experience, they took that experience and they gave me
an M.O.S., which was forty-one eleven, which was an Exchange person accou–accountant and
Commissary accountant.
Jonason: And you say you also did some kind of interviewing or training other Marines.
Roberts: When I got into working for—in the Exchange—I did—I interviewed people to work in
the Exchange, okay?
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: And hired them. I worked in Personnel.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: And handled most stuff regarding that.
Jonason: And how long did you do that?
3
�Roberts: For the three years that I was in.
Jonason: And what do you remember best about your time at Camp Pendleton during that time.
Roberts: I met my husband.
Jonason: Ah! (chuckles) And how did you meet your husband?
Roberts: He also worked in the Exchange. Of course, he was higher up than I was. And, he ran
his own store. And, um, at times I was a switchboard―I would work the switchboard and relieve
at lunch time. And we got to communicating on the switchboard, and he finally come over and
introduced himself.
Jonason: Oh!
Roberts: And I don’t have to tell you, from that point on, we clicked!
Jonason: Okay. Tell me about your switchboard work, because that doesn’t exist anymore, does
it?
Roberts: No―
Jonason: What was that like?
Roberts: ―not that I know of. Um, I enjoyed it, okay? It was work that I also did at the hospital
when I worked for the Salvation Army [unintelligible]. And um, so because I had that experience
it was on my record, so to speak. And when I went to work for the Exchange, I kind of relieved
people. I worked in the office. We were all in the same facility. And I would relieve them for
lunch, or if someone called in sick, or whatever, so―
Jonason: How does the―most―myself, I have never run a switchboard.
Roberts: Yes.
Jonason: How would I go about doing that?
Roberts: Oh, that’s kind of hard to say! (laughs) And that’s—you know—a switchboard! Um, it
was just another way of communicating from phone to phone within the offices. And each phone
had a number, and there was a number on the board, and there were the cords that you would
plug in outside or you could plug them into each other.
Jonason: Oh, okay.
Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jonason: So, it’s like something you―like—I’m trying to think of what they’re called.
Roberts: I can’t think of anything at this time that would―I could compare it to, except if you
had a–a phone with buttons, you know.
Jonason: Yeah. Okay.
4
�Roberts: You just plugged them in!
Jonason: Interesting, interesting. And so, you were here for three years and what were your
uniforms that you were required to wear while you were working and while you were doing
other―
Roberts: I always was in uniform.
Jonason: Which was?
Roberts: Summertime, wintertime. I worked with the uniform.
Jonason: What―
Roberts: I was in the Marine Corps.
Jonason: —what kind of uniform?
Roberts: In the summertime, we had a–a light uniform, fit for the weather. In the winter, we had
a much heavier, darker-colored uniform.
Jonason: Okay. And you always had to wear a cover outside?
Roberts: Outside, always.
Jonason: Okay. Is there anything about that work experience that you would like to tell us about?
Roberts: Oh, you got to meet a lot of people!
Jonason: Yeah?
Roberts: Always. And uh, it was always—it was a bit fun, in a way, because you could for
months communicate with an individual and talk and say, “How was your day?” and “Oh, I just
had a baby,” or whatever, okay? And never, ever see their faces.
Jonason: Uh, (chuckles) okay.
Roberts: So, that was kind of different. Yes. And it was always a fun experience when they were
able to come and say “Hi, I’m so-and-so. I work for―” whatever.
Jonason: So, were there civilians that came in and shopped where you were?
Roberts: Uh, absolutely! I mean, this was a Commissar―uh, well, at the time it was an Exchange,
the Military Exchange. And of course, all civilians, troops―
Jonason: Their families.
Roberts: Their families, absolutely. Yeah.
Jonason: Were there any special events that associated with your–your work?
Roberts: Can you be more specific?
Jonason: Did they hold any special events at—I guess—at the exchange.
5
�Roberts: No. We–we celebrated the Marine Corps birthday, uh―
Jonason: Did they close down the store? Did you have spe―I mean, what did they do for that?
(clears her throat)
Roberts: Bec–being civilian, not a lot, okay? Because not only the military shopped there; their
families did, which was not military, okay? Um, the―we would be closed on holidays. And, we
were just like any outside, whether you were working at Target or J.C. Penny or whatever.
Jonason: Okay. Um―
(A second interviewer, Maryellen Cortellini, seems to be asking Leslee a question, because
Leslee looks to her right, away from Faye.)
Cortellini: (less audible) Where did you live when you first got to Camp Pendleton?
Roberts: I didn’t hear the question.
Jonason: Excuse me. What was the question? (It sounds as though Jonason turns to ask the
Cortellini to repeat the question.)
Cortellini: Where did she live?
Jonason: Oh, where did you live when you first came to Camp Pendleton?
Roberts: I lived in the W.M., Women Marine’s barracks. Um, it was not my cup of tea. And
when I was able, I moved off base. It wasn’t quite, um, legal, but I did. I had a― (sighs) there
was a―I can’t remember her rank. I think she was a Staff Sergeant, and she was being transferred
to, um, Virginia, and she had pets, and she knew I did not like living in the barracks with a bunch
of teenagers. So, she offered me her home if I would take care of her pets! And—
Jonason: Oh!
Roberts: —I moved off base, oh, within eight months or so and lived in Carlsbad.
Jonason: Oh!
Roberts: And took care of her home and her pets.
Jonason: So, how long had you stayed in the Women Marine barracks themselves?
Roberts: Uh, actually, it wasn’t even a full year.
Jonason: Okay. And these were wooden buildings?
Roberts: No. At the―these were new barracks that they had just recently built.
Jonason: So, they were, what, squad based?
Roberts: Squad based! Mm-hmm.
Jonason: How many―
6
�Roberts: A great big―
Jonason: ―bunks?
Roberts: Well, I think we had about twenty in the squad bay I lived in. And you were judged—
you were put in the squad bay according to your rank.
Jonason: And so, you’re–you’re one bunk above and below?
Roberts: Exactly.
Jonason: And you were required to keep them a certain way.
Roberts: Absolutely.
Jonason: Regulation.
Roberts: You had–you had, um, I can’t remember the exact term. Forgive me.
Jonason: Junk on the bunk?
Roberts: No, uh―
Jonason: (laughs) That’s what I was told.
Roberts: We―well, not then! We had to maintain and keep them clean, okay? And so, it was a–a
group thing that was done once a week, no matter what your rank was. You were required, you
know. Wash floors, windows, whatever.
Jonason: Did you also do other things besides your job in maintaining the–the barracks? Did
you―
Roberts: Oh! Had a good time! (both she and Jonason chuckle)
Jonason: Well, you did more than that, I know! (Roberts laughs) Did they have you do—picking
up around the barracks, and―
Roberts: Uh―
Jonason: ―all that kind of stuff?
Roberts: Yes. We had, um, um―
Jonason: Field day?
Roberts: Outside to maintain the—you know—the grass, and the bushes and whatever. Yes, that
was also part of our requirement. We were to treat it like it was our home. And we would do
those things if we were within our own home. So.
Jonason: Had you ever gone to the Green Hat Club?
Roberts: No. The Green Hat Club was after me.
7
�Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: Okay? I’m not sure what year. Yes, there were a lot of, uh–uh, what do you call them,
um―
Cortellini: [inaudible]
Roberts: —officers clubs. There were different clubs for different rank and of course I was a
peon, so I―till I made sergeant, but yes.
Jonason: How did ch–becoming sergeant change your life?
Roberts: It gave―it made me more independent. I didn’t have to follow some of the rules and
regulations.
Jonason: So, did you live―you said you lived in the barracks about a year. So, you lived in the–
in the Staff Sergeant’s house about two?
Roberts: About two years. Yes.
Jonason: Okay. And then what did―
Roberts: Not legally, but I did. (both she and Jonason laugh.)
Jonason: Well, nowadays, you’d get permissions or something. Yeah.
Roberts: I’m not sure (smiles wide).
Jonason: (laughs) Um, is there any other part of that work that you’d like to share with us?
Roberts: As far as the military is concerned?
Jonason: Mm-hmm.
Roberts: In a way, um, it was―I think once I left the military, I was more conscious of my
responsibility when I was in the Marine Corps.
Jonason: Oh!
Roberts: The motto of a W.M., which we were called—Women Marines—was to release a
fighting man. And of course, it was during the Vietnam War, and it was a difficult time for the
United States and for everyone. So, I didn’t think about it a lot but once I left the military, I
realized what my job was or had been, to help win that war.
Jonason: You–you appreciated it more?
Roberts: Much more.
Jonason: And so, then when you left you got married?
Roberts: Yes, I did.
Jonason: And where did you go?
8
�Roberts: In fact, I don’t know. I don’t remember all the times, but my husband who was
stationed here at Camp Pendleton and his career was basically here, okay? He was a Gunnery
Sergeant and he owned a home in Oceanside. And so, when we—naturally when we got married,
I moved into his home in Oceanside.
Jonason: And how long did you stay there?
Roberts: (sighs) Uh, quite a few years. We didn’t move out—I guess I was there at least five
years, at least five years, and then we bought a home elsewhere in San Diego. He retired.
Jonason: Why did you like San Diego?
Roberts: He liked San Diego.
Jonason: Did you?
Roberts: Yes, I guess so. My children were born here. It became my home. Uh, yes. Yes. I liked
it.
Jonason: Did you work outside the home once you were married?
Roberts: I did, but not until my children got a little older. I actually went to work for the Marine
Corps Exchange. (both she and Jonason laugh)
Jonason: Okay. And how long did you do that?
Roberts: Uh, now you’re asking a question you have to think about. It was a few years.
Jonason: Yeah?
Roberts: I would say five or six years. Yeah.
Jonason: Okay. Well, that’s good.
Cortellini: What was the Marine Corps reaction to your announcement that you wanted to get
married?
Roberts: I–I—
Jonason: Oh, you said—Yeah!—How did you―when you decided to get married, there were
regulations that you had to jump through before you could do that.
Roberts: [chuckles] Yes.
Jonason: Both you and your husband.
Roberts: Being―being a–a low rank, number one, and being a woman Marine, I had to ask
permission from my C.O., the sergeant in charge, and—which I had to do. Uh, between you and
me, I did it because it was considered one of my responsibilities. Otherwise, I thought it was a
silly rule.
Jonason: [chuckles] And your husband had to do the same thing, right?
9
�Roberts: Well, he did. He did. And my―for me, he did it for me. Not so much for himself. He’d
been married before. His first wife had passed. So, um, he was a–a bit youn–older than I am or
was. And um, so no he didn’t. But, he did, for me. Yes.
Jonason: He asked permission for you.
Roberts: Right. We went together.
Jonason: Oh! Very interesting. And were there any other situa―parts of that that were required?
Roberts: No, because when we married, there–there was no problem. But because of our age,
okay, we wanted a family. And the–the motto of the Marine Corps was if we wanted you to have
a child, we’d issued you one.
Jonason: I see.
Roberts: So, as soon as I became pregnant, I was automatically dis–discharged.
Jonason: (coughs) Excuse me.
Roberts: I got an honorable discharge, but, yes.
Jonason: Huh.
Roberts: So, that’s how I left.
Jonason: Interesting. And were you―after you were married, you moved into his house. Were
you still a Marine at that poin–time?
Roberts: Yes.
Jonason: I’m trying to clarify that.
Roberts: Uh, until I became―
Jonason: Pregnant.
Roberts: ―pregnant. Yes.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jonason: Okay. (
Roberts: We lived there for two children.
Jonason: (chuckles)
Roberts: He retired. He went to work for the Post Office and we moved into San Diego area.
Terry Norwood: Where were your children—(barely audible) first and second—born?
Roberts: Camp Pendleton, at the old hospital.
10
�Jonason: Because he was still in the military? Or―
Roberts: No. We were―because he was what is considered a lifer, someone who put in twentytwo years of his life. He continued to have privileges—
Jonason: Ah.
Roberts: —military privileges.
Jonason: So, he wasn’t in the Corps still, when they were born?
Roberts: No.
Jonason: And what did he do?
Roberts: My husband went to work for the U.S. Post Office.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: Mm-hmm. He took the test and passed and–and continued to work there for thirty years.
Jonason: Wonderful!
Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jonason: And I understand that you’re still living in San Diego area.
Roberts: Uh, actually I live in the same house.
Jonason: (chuckles) Oh, my goodness!
Roberts: Live in the same house. We bought a new home outside of Poway and I’ve lived there
ever since. I think it was 1972, or something like that.
Jonason: Wow! You must like it there.
Roberts: It’s paid for! (she chuckles and Jonason laughs) For sure!
Jonason: Are there parts of the community that you enjoy more than others?
Roberts: In–in San Diego? San Diego?—
Jonason: In Poway, San Diego County.
Roberts: Uh, you know, I had two other children born there, and, um, it—number one, it was
very new. We were one of the first housing developments in the area. So, basically, I watched it
grow (raises her hands to indicate something growing) into this huge community. And, um, I felt
like it was home. And yes, I do. I like it there. I can’t think of any place else.
Jonason: Yes.
Norwood: (unintelligible, but sounds like “Chopped Liver”)
11
�Roberts: Uh, I’m not sure. A pool, oh (shrugs)—as far as activities—(looking at Cortellini) is
that–is that what we’re talking about? Okay—
Norwood: What do you like about the community?
Roberts: Oh! I did—yes, I’m talking about the beginning of living in the community and why I
stayed there. Uh, I’m very active. Well, I won’t say active but I have a lot of activities within the
community since I’ve lived there. So— I like to swim and do water aerobics, and—
Jonason: This is a community pool, I take it? Or—
Roberts: Yes, it is. Number one, I–I got to watch the community grow. Like I said, we were one
of the first developments in the area, housing developments, and so I got to watch it grow.
Jonason: There must be a story about being one of the first of the development. Was there—
Roberts: No—
Jonason: —an event or something?
Roberts: —number one, now you want me to be silly? It was a ch—
Jonason: No. (laughs)
Roberts: Oh, okay. (laughs also) No, it was just a very new community and it was fun greeting
all the new people and watching different developments grow, watching schools being built and
my children being able to go to those schools. I know—
Jonason: Did you get to pick specific flooring and that type of thing in your house wh—at that
time? Was that something that—
Roberts: Pretty much.
Jonason: —Yeah?
Roberts: Pretty much so. Yes.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: I mean, the house was built and then I did what I wanted to the inside of it (smiles wide)
and outside, of course.
Jonason: But that wasn’t with the builder, though. That was on your own, right?
Roberts: That was on my own.
Jonason: Interesting. Okay.
Roberts: Yes.
Jonason: (apparently she turns to Cortellini) Are there other questions that you would like to see
asked?
12
�Cortellini: Um, it would be nice if she (rest of question is inaudible, but seems to be talking
about entering something into a document)
Jonason: Well, we’ll have that in the–in the file. Um—
Cortellini: Just the fact that she [Cortellini clarification: left her close-knit family and friends,
and her small town of Eastlake, Ohio to travel all the way to South Carolina to enlist in Marine
Corps bootcamp. How brave and courageous as a young woman to make that monumental
decision.]
Roberts: (turning her head from Cortellini back to Jonason, smiling) She does—
Jonason: Well, I think she–she went in from the frying pan into the fire—
Roberts: The fire.
Jonason: —didn’t you! (laughs)
Roberts: Amen! (laughs also)
Norwood: But she’s a cast iron skillet.
Roberts: (turning to Norwood): Pardon me?
Norwood: But you’re a cast iron skillet.
Roberts: Oh, is that—Oh, I–I’ve never quite thought of myself that way, but—
Jonason: (continuing to laugh) Yeah, but hey—
Roberts: —I will take the compliment. (turns back to Jonason)
Norwood: And the other thing I think you could give perspective on is how the military has
grown since you’ve been here.
Roberts: Oh, absolutely. Uh, as–for women? Yes, absolutely. Uh, it was—we were considered
second class citizens back in 1966. Like I think I said previously, we were given the title of
releasing a fighter–a fighting man, okay? And we were supposed to, uh—our jobs basically were
to fill in where the men would have to leave and we would fill in and take their jobs. So, it was—
it’s different today. Women join the military exactly the reason that men do. They want the—
They want to do something for their country, number one. I can’t speak for all of them, but yes. I
think they—
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: —they have the same honor and privileges that they–you–this country offers their
military. So, yes.
Jonason: If you had a message for a young Marine today, what would it be?
Roberts: Whoa! (Jonason laughs) Um, I really wouldn’t have a message for them. It—Number
one, I believe it’s something that they—nowadays—let me put it this way. Nowadays, I think
13
�both men and women join the military because they want t–to, because it offers them something
that they desire. Back in the day of, say, 1966, uh, men were drafted. Okay? And women were
second class citizens. But they did it anyways, (shrugs) whatever their purpose—for their
country; for themselves; for their family. So, times have changed.
Jonason: Okay! Well, thank you very much.
Roberts: You’re very welcome.
[the video then stops and starts, and cuts off the beginning portion of what Leslee Roberts is
saying, but she continues speaking, turning to Cortellini now:]
Roberts: —[San Di]ego people. Or we could become Poway people living in San Diego.
Norwood: Mm. Okay. And that, I can’t tell you how huge that is to the education—well, this is
not necessar—this is going off on a tangent—
Roberts: No, no. It had a–had a big—yes. Because—
Norwood: It did!
Roberts: just a community—
Norwood: It did.
Roberts: Mira Mesa, down the road is San Diego.
Norwood: Yeah.
Roberts: So, we were given a choice, and we made it. And we made the Poway U—part, we
helped make Poway Unified School what they are.
Norwood: That right there tells—
Jonason: Is key.
Cortellini: —what this woman is about. So, to–I–just—and—
Roberts: I never thought about it, but—
Cortellini: (inaudible due to Jonason asking a further question)
Jonason: So, you’re saying that there was no Poway schools when you—
Roberts: Poway, yes. Poway had their own little, uh—
Cortellini: No, it wasn’t.
Roberts: —They didn’t even have a high—They—
Cortellini: They didn’t have a—They were not a unified school district until late—
Roberts: No, they weren’t. Until much later.
14
�Jonason: But, did–did they have a school?
Roberts: Oh yes. They had several, um, elementary schools. What was that? (turns from Jonason
to Cortellini) They had Poway High—
Cortellini: They had one—
Roberts: — and one middle school.
Cortellini: —Mm-hmm.
Roberts: —one middle school.
Cortellini: And they, and they were—
Roberts: (turns to Jonason) Midland. Yeah, it was Midland. (holds up her left hand)
Cortellini: They were part of Escondido. They weren’t really in their s–unified school district,—
Roberts: No, they weren’t considered—
Cortellini: but they were—
Roberts: No.
Cortellini: But they—
Roberts: It was—
Cortellini: And then we had [inaudible]
Roberts: It was–Actually, it was–it was considered—it was kind of a country town.
Cortellini: Yes.
Roberts: It was just this country little, country city. They were themselves, okay? And, um, they
did have schools for their kids and whatnot. But that was very small, very limited. I can’t even
begin to tell you—Even now, there’s only one main—
Cortellini: Okay. I’m st—
Roberts: —road, going through Poway, and it’ll always be the main th–main road through Poway
because everyone built to the sidewalks! There’s no way of widening it. (Jonason laughs)
There’s no way of expanding it. (Jonason clears her throat) It’s all the way up to, uh, Ramona,
bay–basically.
Cortellini: So, now, I’m going to the Poway Museum and the R.B. Museum to see what
historical data is there, because based on more—
Roberts: Now—
Cortellini: —info about the school district and how it came to be, because—
Roberts: See, now Rancho Bernardo was—
15
�Cortellini: —that is really—
Roberts: Rancho Bernardo was always there. It was considered more—back in (lowers voice)
those (back to speaking voice) days, it was, uh, for seniors.
Cortellini: Seniors.
Roberts: It was more of a senior place.
Cortellini: It was a community planned—
Roberts: And um, yes.
Cortellini: Yeah.
Roberts: And, uh, they did attend, those that were–that lived in, say, Rancho Bernardo. They did
attend the Poway school. Okay? Those were the—That was the only school district around. San
Diego was a little far ou– far away for them.
Cortellini: But–but it wasn’t even a formed Unified School District in the early 70s.
Roberts: Till much later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So—
Cortellini: Okay. And then, also, um, you’re–you’re being modest. You haven’t been asked to
write your history, so I get it.
Roberts: (turns to Jonason and shrugs)
Cortellini: But just sitting here, I’m thinking of how you guys fought for the community
center,—
Roberts: Oh, yeah.
Cortellini: —the pool that you swim in.
Roberts: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Cortellini: You know? All the things—
Jonason: And what happened with the community center?
Roberts: It was a—We wanted it. They made it. Um, (sighs) how do I say it? It–it wa–I guess—it
wasn’t—
Cortellini: The city—
Roberts: —exactly a community—how–how–what would you call the pool, ‘cuz I’ve been going
there for twenty years.
Cortellini: Yeah. It was a community center.
Roberts: It was.
Cortellini: Um, and the city decided to change—all that nastiness out of my mouth real quick—
16
�Roberts: You can say it. I–my ears are used to it. (Jonason chuckles)
Cortellini: Then, um, this—When the city decided that to change their Charter and a lot of their
zoning and who they were going to support or–or–in–like–They were no longer going to have a
senior center. Okay? And they were—
Jonason: Oh.
Cortellini: —no longer going to have a community pool. But the community rallied—
Roberts: But it was considered growing, and they wanted to grow into something besides Poway
which we kind of fought for.
Cortellini: And, yet, they didn’t want to bring in a Y.M.C.A. They wanted to be—
Roberts: No.
Cortellini: —their own thing and have it be bigger. But it’s just not what the people wanted at the
time. So, these ladies were part of the movement.
Roberts: Well, back then, yeah, we kind of steadfast and we voted.
Jonason: How were you—How old were your kids at that time?
Roberts: Oh they were—
Cortellini: Oh, this was only like ten years ago.
Roberts: Yeah. Well—
Cortellini: But–but I—but I’ve only known you for maybe ten—
Roberts: Sss—Yeah. Bu–bu–well, when they started building schools—This was the thing that–
that we fought for. Number one was technically, technically I live in San Diego. Okay? But
Poway is our school district. Poway is our hospitals. Poway is, you know, all the stuff that makes
a city a city. We were able to stay in that group, and—well, Rancho Bernardo, too. But we—
whereas just down the road about three or four miles, we have San Diego, Mira Mesa, some of
the other ones.
Cortellini: It’s very—
Roberts: They’re all San Diego, so they have to follow the San Diego taxes, the San Diego
whatever, whatever.
Cortellini: Well, we do too.
Roberts: No, no, I know. But I’m trying to think of things.
Cortellini: It’s very convoluted up where we are. It took me a while to wrap my head around—
Roberts: Everything.
17
�Cortellini: —how in the world could we be part of Poway Unified when we’re a San Di—city of
San Diego address. It was really complex.
Roberts: We—But we kind of fought for that. In fact, I can remember Mount Carmel—
Cortellini: Well, I’m grateful (chuckles)
Roberts: —Mount Carmel wa—uh, all the kids in my–in our area went to Poway High, went to
Midland Junior High, okay? S–and–and the elementary school. And my kids started off at Me–
Meadowbrook. Meadowbrook? (looks toward Jonason)
Cortellini: Yeah.
Roberts: Whatever, for kindergarten through ninth, (Jonason coughs) or whatever it was, until
we fought for our own schools (Jonason coughs) and our own area.
Cortellini: Hhm, that’s interesting.
Roberts: So, I mean, yeah. I can remember when they built the high school.
Cortellini: Do you?
Roberts: Carmel Mountain.
Cortellini: You’re a legend in my community, girl.
Roberts: (laughs) I don’t know about that, but— (Jonason laughs) we didn’t—Poway, um, was
recognized as having a very good school system, okay? Or, whatever. And we wanted to
continue with what Poway was giving to our students. Where San Diego was—I mean, look at
San Diego. San Diego is a huge place, and it’s gotten huger, so—
Jonason: Is Poway considered part of North County?
Roberts: Yes.
Jonason: Okay.
Roberts: Yes. So—
Norwood: And, for many, many, many, many, many years, Rancho Bernardo, where I live—She
lives in Poway, but sh–very close to R.B., um, but she’s not affected like we are because she’s in
Poway. So, R.B. is the farthest north of San Diego.
Roberts: San Diego, yep (nodding).
Norwood: She is right beneath us.
Roberts: On the edge, Mm-hmm.
Norwood: We are North County and we are–don’t—We have to fight for the city of San Diego
to fix our streets, to—
Roberts: To do whatever.
18
�Norwood: To–to do whatever we need—
Roberts: Right.
Norwood: —because we’re so far north. They forget about us. They’ll take our tax revenue—
Roberts: Oh, they do take that!
Norwood: —but they’ll forget about us, which is one of–just one of many reasons why we
wanted to integrate into our own sch–school system up there.
Roberts: Oh, no. I—
Norwood: Because it was so small, we could be more vocal. We could give more input into a
smaller school district versus being a part of San Diego.
Roberts: Well, parents were included. You were invited to come to the–to the school board
meetings. You were, you know what I mean? You were invited to participate in becoming a
school board member—I mean—so, you were part of it. Where as far as San Diego is concerned,
which is—like I said—just five miles down the road, um, they were totally into, uh, San Diego,
(shrugs) Mira Mesa and all the ones around there now. So— (shrugs)
Jonason: Yeah.
Roberts: Aah, we did that a bit, I guess. I don’t— (laughs) We fought for it.
Jonason: Well, it sounds like you’re a very active person in your community.
Cortellini: Yes.
Roberts: Uh, (sighs, shaking her head), that was a long time ago. This old lady has settled in.
(she and Jonason laugh) I’m not as active as I used to be.
Cortellini: I just wanted to say. You know, when I first met Leslee, before I knew she was a
Marine, over time, I started calling her “our fearless leader” (Roberts and Jonason laugh) at the
pool, because she had this wonderful way of recruiting more people and she—
Roberts: I had a mouth!
Cortellini: She singlehandedly—
Jonason: It’s a good thing!
Roberts: I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut.
Cortellini: She–but she s—
Roberts: When I don’t agree with you, you’re gonna hear about it. (all laugh)
Cortellini: She’s still [Cortellini clarification: humble] about it. But, she singlehandedly turned a
water aerobics, or water exercise class into a family. That’s how we became friends.
Roberts: Yes.
19
�Jonason: Oh.
Cortellini: She roped me in, and she writes–ropes in everybody! (laughs)
Norwood: Yes. She makes you feel wanted.
Cortellini: She makes you feel like a family, and then makes everyone feels welcome, and now,
they—you wouldn’t believe the size of our water aerobics. We’re up to forty-plus people
(somewhat unintelligible, faint voice, and there is background traffic noise)
Roberts: I know.
Cortellini: And that’s the summer.
Roberts: Well, I think we have around, about thirty permanent, you know, oldies but goodies.
Cortellini: That’s—but that’s also—
Norwood: (can’t distinguish what she says, due to crosstalk)
Roberts: In the summertime.
Cortellini: Seriously. I give you credit for that, and you really—
Roberts: Oh, not totally. There were—
Cortellini: But, she’s—
Roberts: Look at Doreen,
Cortellini: And see, that’s where
Norwood: (unintelligible, due to crosstalk)
Roberts: Doreen.
(Norwood and Cortellini crosstalk; unintelligible)
Roberts: Yeah. It wasn’t just me.
Cortellini: (first few words unintelligible) incorporated those values, a team and—
Jonason: You feel that? Do you feel that the Marine Corps has helped you be organized and get
people together?
Roberts: I never thought about it, ‘cuz I was always a mouth.
Jonason: Well, but—
Roberts: Why do you think they kicked me out of the Sisterhood.
Jonason: Because you needed to be a Marine. (laughs)
Roberts: No. Because I didn’t fit in. (laughs)
20
�Cortellini: What did we go to the Mayor’s office for?
Norwood: Oh, that was film week again. (next few words unintelligible)
Cortellini: Okay.
Roberts: (nodding) Yeah.
Norwood: Still! Still!
Cortellini: Leslee has—I know—Leslee has been an advocate for myself, my project, my books.
She—
Roberts: (to Jonason) Like I said, I’m a mouth.
Cortellini: She has shared my books with everybody.
Roberts: (to Jonason) And sometimes, if you’re loud enough, people just don’t say no to you.
Norwood: I called her my agent there—she still is my agent (rest of sentence is unintelligible).
21
�GLOSSARY
Carmel Mountain (pg.18)
C.O. (pg.9)
Doreen (pg.20)
Green Hat Club (pg.7)
Gunnery Sergeant (pg.9)
Kingsley (pg.15)
Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton (pg.1)
Marine Corps Exchange (pg.9)
Marine Corps Mechanized Museum (pg.1)
Meadowbrook [CA] (pg.18)
Midland Junior High (pg.18)
M.O.S. (pg.3)
Mount Carmel (pg.17)
Parris Island (pg.2)
Poway High (pg.14)
Poway Museum (pg.15)
Poway Unified School [District] (pg.14)
Ramona [CA] (pg.15)
Rancho Bernardo (pg.16-19)
R.B. Museum (pg.15)
Reveille (pg.2)
Sisters of Charity (pg.1,2,20)
Staff Sergeant (pg.8)
W.M. (Women Marines [barracks]) (pg.5,6,8)
22
�23
�
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Roberts, Leslee K. Interview transcript, November 11, 2022.
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An oral history interview with Leslee K. Roberts, a Marine Corps veteran, who shares her experiences growing up in Ohio, deciding not to become a nun and choosing to leave Ohio by joining the U.S. Marine Corps. She discusses some military regulations, meeting and marrying her husband, and her various homes in North County. She talks about her involvement and support of the Poway community as well as Poway’s early development.
This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos.
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Leslee K. Roberts
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Faye A. Jonason
Maryellen Cortellini
Melissa Martin
Terry Norwood
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2022-11-23
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Camp Pendleton (Calif.)
Korean War, 1950-1953
Switchboard operators
United States. Marine Corps
Veterans -- United States
Women marines
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Poway (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Leslee K. Roberts
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text
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RobertsLeslee_JonasonFaye_2022-11-29_transcript
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Veteran experience
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
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Oral History
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Sean Visintainer
Interviewee
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Rebecca Jones
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12.xml
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5.4 Jones, Rebecca. Interview April 12, 2023. SC027-034 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This interview was recorded as part of the North County Oral History Initiative, a partnership between California State University San Marcos and San Marcos Historical Society & ; Heritage Park. This initiative was generously funded by the Center for Engaged Scholarship at CSU San Marcos. csusm Local government -- California -- San Marcos San Diego Association of Governments Jones, Rebecca San Marcos (Calif.) COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy Women in politics San Diego County (Calif.) Rebecca Jones Sean Visintainer JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12.mp4 1:|18(6)|33(5)|53(4)|69(9)|86(11)|109(10)|129(11)|145(10)|172(2)|201(5)|215(6)|230(13)|251(5)|271(16)|298(10)|317(14)|333(8)|353(7)|370(8)|387(6)|401(3)|416(15)|435(6)|453(11)|492(4)|513(8)|530(9)|549(11)|566(3)|585(8)|605(14)|622(8)|643(5)|677(10)|702(7)|719(4)|732(12)|745(3)|761(8)|777(5)|790(7)|812(9)|826(11)|848(13)|864(14)|878(16)|890(10)|904(2)|919(13)|942(5)|963(4)|975(7)|988(9)|1016(5)|1032(7)|1055(7)|1067(3)|1082(2)|1103(12)|1116(12)|1129(11)|1149(14)|1162(14)|1190(9)|1203(9)|1215(7)|1228(2)|1244(11)|1264(6)|1282(15)|1299(13)|1317(12)|1333(2)|1351(7)|1369(17)|1385(7)|1399(16)|1414(16)|1427(7)|1451(13)|1477(6)|1497(18)|1513(10)|1532(2)|1546(5)|1562(2)|1584(8)|1605(10)|1617(2)|1635(11)|1656(8)|1673(10)|1685(6)|1701(2)|1716(9)|1738(5)|1751(15)|1765(5)|1781(17)|1805(13)|1818(10)|1831(3)|1843(15)|1855(14)|1870(13)|1896(11)|1913(9)|1931(11)|1962(3)|2000(4) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/1997e3f42e3e9c4d984c36d5eded7c44.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction Oral history interview of San Marcos, California Mayor Rebecca Jones, by Sean Visintainer, Head of Special Collections, California State University San Marcos. Interview April 12, 2023 at the University Library. 0 50 San Marcos local governance Jones describes where the city's budget comes from, including property tax, sales tax, and via the ownership of property (thanks to status as a charter city). Jones also describes her priorities for her work and for San Marcos city government. local governance ; San Marcos city budget ; charter city 0 236 Structure of San Marcos government Jones outlines the structure of San Marcos city government, and how a City Council Manager government differs from a Strong Mayor model. Jones also speaks to building consensus, and what being a contract city entails, especially in regards to police, and fire departments. 0 569 Identifying needs Jones entails what feedback means to the act of local governance, how she solicits it, saying no, and thinking big picture about priorities and issues. Jones also touches on pandemic operations of parks and trails, supporting small businesses, and customer service. local governance ; COVID 19 pandemic ; small business ; San Marcos Parks and Trails 0 927 Local governance and San Diego County Jones speaks to the differences between county and local government, and how the City of San Marcos works within the county structure. Jones specifically addresses: mental health, SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments), North County Transit, Vallecitos Water District. Jones elaborates on transit - public transportation, car transit, and microtransit. Jones also elaborates on Innovate 78 and how the organization functions, and is tied to job retention along the 78 corridor (Carlsbad, Oceanside, Vista, San Marcos, and Escondido). SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments) ; North County Transit ; Vallecitos Water District ; public transportation ; car transit ; microtransit ; Innovate 78 0 1499 Starting in politics Jones recounts how she became involved in politics, through interest in a parks issue and sitting down with city council and receiving encouragement from sitting members of the council. Jones recalls serving on the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, and learning about the process of local governance through that task force. Jones also speaks to being involved in the private sector in real estate and as a business owner. Jones also recounts her feelings towards a couple of development projects and how that spurred her to get involved in politics. local politics ; San Marcos Creek District Task Force 0 1820 Appointment to San Marcos City Council Jones recounts how the process of being appointed to the city council and the council makeup when she was first appointed. Jones outlines the difference between an appointment and an election.
 ; Jim Desmond ; Pia Harris-Ebert ; Betty Evans ; San Marcos City Council 0 2077 Running for election and re-election Jones recounts some experiences from her previous elections interacting with constituents and with a difficult election. Jones speaks to the emotional toll an election can have on a candidate, and how she participates in self-care. elections ; self-care 0 2629 Cycling for transit and recreation Jones speaks to her experience on SANDAG and offers her perspective on bike lanes and cycling to facilitate transit and recreation. Jones also speaks to different styles of bike lanes, motorist and cyclist education, and eBikes, especially in regards to schoolchildren.
 ; bike lanes ; cycle tracks ; sharrows ; splits ; eBikes 0 3051 San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force and North City Jones discuss the goal of the task force, management of the Creek, and development of the Creek District. Jones also discusses development in North City (San Marcos, originally conceived of as a university district).
 ; San Marcos Creek District ; San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force ; Gary London ; public/private partnerships ; North City ; Belgian Waffle Ride 0 3490 More development in San Marcos Jones elaborates on additional development in the works in San Marcos, including medical offices and a hospital, and the Discovery Road extension, traffic, and flooding. 
 ; Scripps Hospital ; Kaiser Hospital ; Kaiser Permanente ; Discovery Road ; traffic congestion ; healthcare 0 3844 Running for San Marcos Mayor Jones recalls the decision process of deciding to run for mayor, and speaks to being San Marcos's first woman mayor, as well as her mentors.
 ; Pia Harris-Ebert ; Hal Martin 0 4056 Business closures during the pandemic Jones discusses the difficulties small businesses in San Marcos encountered during the pandemic and supporting small businesses in San Marcos.
 ; COVID-19 pandemic ; small business 0 4244 The COVID-19 Pandemic Jones discusses what she and the city did during the pandemic to lessen the burden on San Marcos citizens. Jones discusses the city's rainy day fund, sending out small business loans (which were turned into grants), moving businesses outside, facilitating permits and bureaucracy for businesses in the process of opening, and advocacy to the governor. Jones also discusses keeping outside recreation open, nonprofit assistance, supporting schoolchildren, and mental health. Jones also enumerates how part of her job entails being emotionally available and supportive for constituents, and helping communities move forward from trauma. 
 ; COVID-19 pandemic ; business and regulation ; outdoor recreation ; American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) ; mental health ; trauma 0 4914 Other qualities of Jones's work Jones discusses additional qualities of her day-to-day work, including being a civic booster, reading and preparation, and empathy.
 ; Jeff Zevely ; Channel 8 ; Prohoroff Chicken Ranch ; Hollandia Dairy 0 5228 Women in politics Jones discusses her experiences as a woman in politics, including bias and harassment. Jones also discusses her podcast, SheEO, about elevating women, and Jones's advice to women entering politics. 
 ; women politicians ; SheEO podcast 0 5734 San Marcos youth Jones discusses her work at the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos and engagement with San Marcos youth.
 ; Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos ; Highway 78 flooding ; San Marcos Market ; American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) 0 6352 Next steps and interview close Jones discusses her personal political style, the next steps in her career, and the love she has for the city of San Marcos. San Marcos ; San Diego County Supervisor 0 Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
 ; 
 ; In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos. Sean Visintainer: Okay. This is Sean Visintainer and I’m here today with Mayor Rebecca Jones of San Marcos, California, doing an oral history interview for the Oral History Special Collections Project at Cal State San Marcos. Today is April 12th. We’re doing the interview in the University library. Mayor Jones, thank you so much for joining us today. Mayor Rebecca Jones: Oh, it’s my pleasure. SV: I wanted to start off just by asking you some questions about local government. And I think that it’s something that maybe is a little, at times, opaque to people. And so, I was just curious because local government can look really different depending upon the municipality. For people that are going to watch this video, researchers in the future, could you describe a little bit about how local government in San Marcos happens? RJ: Well, it used to be the great mystery. So, when I actually got involved with the city, I had no idea how local government worked. So, I tried to remember and put myself from that perspective as being just a resident and making things easier. And so, what we do, essentially, is we spend taxpayer money— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —that is from different sources. Most of it is from sales tax. That’s actually where we have our largest amount of money to spend for the residents. But then we also have property tax. And most people don’t know this but out of all of the counties in the city, I believe we are the lowest city that has the smallest share of property tax. So, out of every dollar we get 7.2¢. So, if you look at just that in itself, it really is very important for us to figure out other ways to actually generate revenue. So, we are a charter city. And a charter city allows us to actually have property that we own which is owned by the residents of the city of San Marcos. And all of that revenue that we actually have coming in—so Creekside Marketplace would be an example of that as well as City Hall—but all of that money actually helps augment the very low sales tax that we have. SV: Okay. So, I assume then you have to be very fiscally responsible. RJ: Very fiscally responsible. And so, anyway, our job as a local government is to spend your money wisely ; keep you safe which is, honestly, our number one concern in my opinion—it always has been—and then also making sure we have a good quality of life for people. And so, you know, during my time on the council, I always again, you know, try to remember as a resident what is important to our residents. And I actually—this is kind of crazy but when I am campaigning which, you know, I’ve won five elections now— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —when I’m out campaigning, I actually enjoy the part of knocking on a stranger’s door and knowing that I’m going to get some feedback that I might not ever get otherwise. And so, I think it’s really important for me to always remember that part of local government, who you’re serving, which is the residents of the city, but also keeping everyone safe whether you own a business, whether you live here, or whether you’re visiting here. We want to make sure that we have that as our highest priority and, you know, people can drive safely through our community, come and shop here. If they’re already passing through San Marcos, which a lot of people do, we want them to, you know, spend a little more money and enjoy themselves. So, just keeping all of that in perspective is always at the front of what I’m always thinking and part of what my leadership is and, you know, just having again a good quality of life where people love to visit, live here, and, you know, a good place to call home. SV: Mm-hmm. Can you speak a little bit to how the process of government works, the City Council, the other people that are involved, the Deputy Mayor, yourself? RJ: Yeah. So, essentially, there is a City Council Manager style government. So, you might hear about like a strong Mayor. It’s not that. There’s only one city in the entire county that has that and that’s the city of San Diego. But a Council Manager form of government, local government, means that there are five council people. We pretty much have the same authority. However, I can put anything on the agenda which I have done in the past. But also, you know, I work very closely with the City Manager. I don’t really have any extra authority. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: There’s a few little things but nothing major. And so, there are five of us that really have to look out for the best of what’s going on in the community. And we actually started districts back in 2018 and that actually changed things a bit, because that was the first time where we had councilmembers that were working specifically and being elected specifically in one area of the city. So, we have four districts and I’m at-large, so I’m elected by the entire city. And so, each one of us, you know, we have things that are important to us. We bring them forward. And then we try to get a consensus on them. My job is to make sure we’re all getting along— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —making sure that everyone’s voice is heard, and then also making sure that, you know, we always are remembering, even if you’re not representing technically District 1, for instance, that really District 2, 3, and 4 also matter. And, you know, we only have a certain amount of money, and we really need to make sure that we’re, you know, spending money where the greatest need is but also not just focusing on one part of the city. SV: Yeah. You spoke about consensus building, and I think that’s really interesting since it seems like a lot of decision making has to be shared decision making in San Marcos. How do you go about building consensus? RJ: Well, the biggest, most important thing, in my opinion, is not being political. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, once you bring political parties into it, you really just spoil everything, to be honest. And so, my job has always been as I’ve seen it is to be apolitical, for the most part. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And then also making sure that we are, you know, again spending money wisely and, you know, really addressing all of the needs and the wishes in the community. And making sure that everyone feels that they’re part of the city is also good, you know. It’s doing well. It’s safe. It’s very important for everyone, like I said, to be safe. I think that has always been super important but even more now than ever because there are a lot of people that don’t feel safe. You know, our world has changed. Laws are not the same that they used to be. And so, it’s really important to make sure that, again, your funding, your fire department, and then also your sheriff deputies—we are a contract city, which let me speak to that for just one moment. SV: Sure. RJ: I’ve had a lot of people during, you know, the downturn in the economy and, you know, during a lot of political things that have happened, saying to me, “Should we have our own police force?” Well, we actually still are one of the cities that has the lowest crime rate in the entire county. And so, that’s an important thing. Are we—what is the need? What is the problem? And so, you know, starting our own department would be very expensive, probably $3-4 million dollars. And, if it’s not broken, why fix it? SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, we actually are very lucky that we have some great captains that have come in. We have them for about two or three years, max. But they always end up being the cream of the crop. They end up moving on and actually being maybe an under-Sheriff or, you know, an assistant Sheriff. And so, you know, we really have had some great, you know, leaders in our Sheriff department. But a lot of people like to come back to our city. They might come here as a young Deputy, move on, and then they like to come back because it is a good place. We do have an excellent relationship with them, with the City Council and the Sheriff Department. And so, I think that really is very telling that, again, back to “if it’s not broken, why try to fix it when you’re doing very well.” And that’s, you know, one of the things that I think you do need to always keep in mind is, when things are going well, pay attention to what actually is working. You don’t have to change everything just for the sake of changing it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But you also don’t need to have things that you look at and say, “Well, we’ve been doing it that way twenty years, the same way, and it doesn’t work.” That’s when you need to pay attention. So, anyway, I’m very happy with our sheriff deputies and then also our fire department too, because they really do bring a sense of wellbeing to our community. SV: Yeah. We had to call the fire department— RJ: Oh no! SV: —not too long ago. They responded very promptly. They— RJ: Good. SV: —were wonderful. RJ: Okay! Well, that’s good to know. SV: So, we were very happy with how they did. RJ: Yeah. Good. SV: So, you talked about identifying change and maybe not needing change for the purpose of making change. RJ: Right. Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell. SV: I’m a little bit—I was curious how you identify need. So, it’s important to see what doesn’t need to be changed. But how do you go about recognizing where there is a need? RJ: Well, a lot of it has to do with feedback, to be honest. I mean, really, if you see something that maybe isn’t going as well as you had hoped, I mean a lot of it has to do with how people are feeling in the community. Do they feel like their voices are being heard? And their voice is being heard doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting everything that they want. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Sometimes, you have to say no. And, you know, that’s the big picture. We have nearly 100,000 people and we have—you know, that live here full-time, and we’ve got about 40,000 students that are coming in, that go to CSU, to Palomar College and all of our other higher learning institutions. It’s a lot of people. That’s really about 140,000 people that are, you know, coming into our city every day, whether they live here full-time or not. You know, you have to figure out how you serve them. So, again, you know, are you providing opportunities for them to actually enjoy themselves, have recreation. You know, we are actually known for our parks, which I think is really important at keeping people out and active. And, you know, during the pandemic for instance, many of the cities were closing their trails and their parks. We followed the health orders, but we kept our trails open, and we kept our parks, for the most part, open. We did close our climbing structures and that sort of thing. But we always felt that it was very important to keep people out and active and having those opportunities because mental well-being is important in a community. But then, also having opportunities for people to open businesses. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about for years—and this year it is our first time ; we’re actually calling it one of our goals— and that’s concierge service, that is the customer experience because the customers are the community. And then, also, the business owners, when they come into City Hall, do they feel welcomed? Do they feel like it’s easy for them? They get the support that they need to open a business. Or, if they’re making changes to their property or something like that, are we doing everything we can? And, again, do they have that concierge experience? And so, we’re doing a lot of different things. We actually are just launching something in the next couple of weeks that will help people understand more about conditional use permits and opening businesses and finding out where their dream can come true of opening a business in the city and where it’s actually available to already open pretty easily, or where it might take a little more work on their end. And so, you know, we just are trying to always make that experience a little bit better. And, you know, I’m really proud of all the work that we’ve done since I’ve been on the council. This is my 17th year on the city council. And so, it’s been a long time. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I remember when I first joined the council, I was the only woman at the time. And I remember saying “Well, you know it would be great if we had good customer service.” And at the time, that did not go over very well (Sean chuckles). There was this “Well, what is that all about?” And, you know, now if you look forward, you know, to where we are today and how important that is to us, we’ve changed a lot. And so, you know, again, changing things that you identify as having issues and it’s not just what I think. A lot of it really does have to do with getting feedback from our community. SV: Mm-hmm. How do you solicit feedback? RJ: Well, I try to make as many—myself—as available as possible. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier about, you know, being available. This is a full-time job. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It could happen in a grocery store. It could be happening at the park. Wherever I am, I know that it is important for me to be available. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, Chamber of Commerce events. Really anywhere is a way. I have a very open-door policy, emails, social media, even though I don’t love social media. It does offer a way for people to connect with me. And so, I think, again, that is really important. You know, and then my cell phone. I have it on my cards. I give it to everyone. I have a lot of people that just reach out to me and say, “You know what? I met you at this event. You gave me your card because I asked for it. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing this with you. But here’s what I’m thinking.” And I think that is, in itself, being a mayor of the people. Being available is so important. And, again, you know back to the point that I made a little earlier as well, and that is being as apolitical as possible. I really do believe that that’s the best way that you can serve your community. Not making anyone feel left out and bringing everyone together and being that consensus builder is really important. So, I work very wholeheartedly and very diligently at doing that. SV: Yeah. So, you’re pretty much always on duty. RJ: I am. SV: Yeah. RJ: I am which, you know, makes it difficult. It is a hard job— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —to do, you know, pretty much all day every day. But, you know, I have to say I look around the city and I do have to pinch myself sometimes, thinking “You know, I was a part of that.” And “Oh, I was a part of that.” I mean, I really am proud of what our community has become. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, and we really have grown significantly. We are a college town. And then, you know, we’ve really done a good job, I think, at juggling following state mandates, making sure, again you know, our community is a good place to call home, also to do business in. You know, it really encompasses a lot of different things. But I’ve been very intentional about, you know, making the things that are important to our residents important to me as well. SV: Mm-hmm. Could you talk a little bit about how the city government functions within the larger context of, I guess, the county? RJ: Oh yeah. SV: You know, how the different municipalities interact and then how the county government as well, functions with the city. RJ: So, all mental health is handled through the county. That’s probably the biggest difference of the county and then cities. So, there are 18 cities plus the county. And then what we have is several different, you know, regional groups that we are, you know, part of. So, one being SANDAG which is mainly transportation. And then you’ve got also North County Transit which is for North County. And it’s our transit operator. And so, and then there’s like the water—we don’t actually have our own water department. So, Vallecitos Water District handles that. We are a little different than some cities. Like the city of Carlsbad, they also serve the water as well. But we don’t do that. You know, just really the biggest thing is when we’re on a board together, you have to wear a regional hat. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You have to figure out—because we don’t work independently as silos. We do work together. You know, when you look at transportation in itself, you know a lot of people drive cars, about 97% of the county, about only 2-3% honestly actually use transit. It’s not a system that actually runs often enough for it to be, you know, serving most people for their lives. Plus, a lot of people have lifestyles that really it doesn’t fit within their lifestyles. But then there are a lot of people—well, not a lot, but the people that do use public transit, they really do rely on it. So, we need to figure out how to serve everyone. And so, you know, is there a possibility of having a transit system that actually can attract more riders? I believe so. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But it also relies on people making that shift. We need to make sure it’s safe. There is a lot of people that believe that only people that are homeless ride on public transit. That’s not the case. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Though there are some. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t. There definitely are. But how do we make it more meaningful and easier for people to use it? So, we do need a balanced transportation system like I said. And that’s not punishing car drivers and trying to force them out of their cars. It’s not going to happen. Many people, especially people I think with kids, really rely on that, you know, getting their kids where they need to go. And I, you know, my kids—I have, well, I’ll just give you an example. I had a soccer player and she played competitive soccer, my daughter. And then my son was a surfer. And so, two very, very different, you know, life sorts of things that they like to do. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, for me, I was always driving. I was always driving, you know, a big SUV because usually I was like “Hey, you know what? I’ll pick up your kids too.” So, you know, for practices and all of that for my daughter, I did a lot of carpooling. With my son, not so much because he wanted to go, you know, when he wanted to go. So, you know, I’d go and try to run errands while he was at the beach. And then I’d go back and pick him up. So, you know, a lot of different lifestyles have different needs. And, you know, so that’s one of the things that I always try to mention when I’m on that SANDAG committee. I’m on the Board of Directors as Mayor. And I try to say, “Remember. Let’s not forget about, you know, the parents. Let’s not forget about our retirees. We really do need a transportation program that fits everyone’s needs.” And it is tricky. But I think it can be done. But our new regional plan, I think that it really does punish car drivers in a lot of ways. And we really need to bring more transit, in my opinion, up to North County. And what I’ve been talking about for quite some time, and it actually will be rolling out pretty soon, is having micro-transit within cities because that is a way for you to actually get where you need to go within the city. It’s not going to take you to work or anything like that. But, you know, on your short trips, you know, getting for instance our kids to school because the school district has very little busing. They are starting to bring some of it back. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But that really is only for the elementary kids. So, you know, the older kids, the middle-schoolers, the high schoolers, how do you get them to school in a meaningful way? And I think micro-transit is a way to do that. But it’s also a way for people like if you want to go out and have dinner, have that glass of wine. You don’t have to drink and drive! You don’t have to call an Uber. If you’ve got a system that actually is on demand, it will meet those needs. And I think it would serve our community better. So, I think having more conversations about, you know, different aspects of a transportation plan that fits really the needs of the community like micro-transit and then also autonomous vehicles. They are the future more than I think fixed rail or fixed routes on buses. I think it really does lend better to peoples’ lifestyles. So, you know, keeping that in mind, that’s what we do at SANDAG. But then also at North County Transit. It’s all about the same things that I just mentioned about transit. But, you know, working with other cities it happens a lot. We also have something on the 78 corridor that is something that not the rest of the nation has. I think it’s one of a kind. And it is that cities work together. And so, Innovate 78 started. And it was really about attracting business to the region. I call us the “upside” of San Diego because we’re North County. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: We’re very close to Riverside and to Orange County. And, you know, we really have a different bit of lifestyle. A lot of people that really enjoy the urban living don’t really enjoy it as much in North County. But we also, you know, we have a lot of space for jobs and, you know, we also have a lot of homes. And so, a lot of people, you know, North County is a little more affordable. As you get east of the 5, it, you know, gets a little more affordable. East of the 15 is a little more affordable. But, you know, also trying to figure out how to balance, again, the transportation, getting people to work, and all of that is a consideration. But, you know, when you have large cities like Carlsbad where they have a lot of jobs, where are those people going to live? Well, a lot of them do live in San Marcos, for instance, or Vista. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, you know, Innovate 78 was all about trying to figure out how to attract businesses. If the city of Vista has a business or the city of San Marcos has a business within our city, we can’t find the proper amount of land for them because they want to grow. We work together and our Economic Development Directors work together to figure out where can we move them to stay in North County, so they don’t have to disrupt their workforce, so they don’t have to disrupt their lifestyles. How can we work together to make that happen? And it has been very successful. I’m very proud of the work that we’ve done. And, you know, it has been recognized that we have done some really good work together. SV: Yeah. So, is Innovate 78 like a—is it a formalized structure? Do you have meetings that happen on a regular basis? Or is it more of a—I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to ask you here. RJ: I know what you’re trying to—So, we don’t have—Okay. So, there are quarterly meetings where it’s the mayors, generally, but not always, and council members. So, they kind of cycle in. And then they’re hosted in all the different cities. That’s a quarterly thing. But our Economic Development Directors and staff work actually—they do have monthly meetings. So, they do work together on a very, very regular basis. And, you know, that, again—You know, we’re policy makers. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, it’s not imperative that we are there all the time, you know, at a monthly meeting or something like that. It is when it comes to transportation like SANDAG but not with Innovate 78. And again, you know, there’s a lot of work that has gotten done where, you know, businesses rather than them, you know, locate elsewhere like another county or something like that or, you know, maybe in South County, we’ve been able to keep and retain them here in North County which is a good thing. SV: Yeah. That is a good thing. RJ: Yeah. SV: You talked about micro-transit. I just wanted to clarify what that is in case it becomes available. RJ: Oh, micro-transit is like a small shuttle sort of bus. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Not a big full-sized bus but more of a smaller bus. And it would be—and what North County transit is going to be—Have you ever seen the Carlsbad Connector? SV: I haven’t. RJ: Okay. Well, it’s kind of a, it’s a smaller bus and it would be on demand. That will be rolling out in San Marcos. SV: Okay. RJ: Through North County Transit. SV: Okay. When will that roll out? RJ: Actually, sometime probably fall or early next year. SV: Very cool! RJ: Yeah. SV: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey into politics. RJ: Oh my gosh! Yes. Everyone says, “What made you— SV: Yeah! RJ: “—want to be in politics?” Well, I could tell you this much. I never did. (laughs) It’s one of those things that I just kind of fell into. And so, what ended up happening is I was a young mom, and really, I didn’t even know how local government worked. I didn’t know what city government handled. I didn’t know anything about anything. And there was a public notice in the park next to my home. And, you know, I had a baby at home and a four-year-old. And I was like “What’s going on? What is happening?” you know. And some of my neighbors were saying “Oh, we don’t want this in our park.” And I said, “Well, what’s even going on?” And then, as I started delving into it and I got more information and I actually figured out what was going on, I went “Yeah. I don’t like that for the park either. I’m not in love with that.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, it really was being involved. I sat down with all of the council members at the time and I had two council members, a Republican and a Democrat, say to me, “Rebecca, you should get involved in politics.” And I said, “I have you. Why would I do that?” And they said, “Well, we’re definitely not going to be doing it forever.” I think both of them were probably right around 20-25 or 24 years, you know, being involved in the city. And I was like “Why? Why won’t you do this forever?” And they said, “Well, you know, it’s a big job. However, when you really want to help shape the community, it’s a good thing.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, I had both of them, you know, talk me into it. First they kind of “voluntold” me. And I actually first joined the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, originally. And I thought that was really interesting because I learned a lot about land use, a lot about, you know, just creating spaces where people could come and, you know, congregate, and really making a community a place where people can, you know, meet up with their friends and, you know, have those restaurants and those spaces that are, you know, beautiful and, you know, signature to the community, very unique. And I really liked that. And so, I was like “Okay. Well, I do like this.” And I have to tell you, my background is that I was a new home sales agent when I was in my early twenties. SV Mm-hmm. RJ: And then, my ex and I started a furniture marketing company which became very successful. We had customers. We started out with zero sales. We actually built that into a $100 million dollars a year in sales with Walmart, Costco, BestBuy as some of our customers. So, it was a pretty lucrative business. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But, you know, it was really hard. And I remember when he came home one day from work, he said, “You know, we’re going to start our own business.” And I went “We??” And, you know, at that time we only had one child and he was one. And he said, “Yes. You’re going to do all of the business part of it. And I’m just going to do the sales.” And I went “Oh. Okay.” And I go “You know, I don’t know how to work a computer.” And he said, “Nah, that’s okay. You’re smart. You could figure it out.” And that’s, you know, that’s really how it started. And so, I’ve always been kind of a, you know, very I would say involved person. If someone, you know, gives me a challenge or a task, I will go all in, and I’ll make sure I’ll do a good job. I’m very conscientious. And so, that really is how it started. Started out, you know, had that background of business in my, you know, my marriage and owning it. And then, I just went “Well, you know what? It’s time for me to give back. It’s time for me to be part of the solution rather than, you know, trying to stop things that are happening, you know as far as development goes.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, there were a couple of other things. The second Walmart, I didn’t agree with that. I didn’t think the placement was correct. And then there was the Robertson’s Ready-Mix batch plant over on Barham. And I said “Yeah. This is negative. I’d rather be positive.” I don’t like negativity, as you could probably tell. I’m a very positive person. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And you know what? I just knew that it was probably the right thing to do. And so, I ended up actually applying for an appointment because my ex had gotten sick in 2006. So, I wasn’t able to run a campaign that year. And I applied for the appointment in 2007. I was selected. And then I have run five campaigns since then and been elected five times. So, I must be doing something right. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Always been the top vote getter, even if it was for two seats and, you know, I would say that no one outworks me. No one immerses themselves more into trying to be involved and prepared. And so, I think that sets me apart because I really am not a politician. I’m just a person that loves the community and wants to give back and has found a way that I can do that. SV: And you said that you applied for the appointment for city council, if I’m understanding correctly. RJ: Correct. SV: So, what is that process like? RJ: Boy, was that fun. I’m just kidding. (both laugh) So, you filled out an application and then you talked about your experience and what you wanted to bring to the table. And at that time, it was an interesting time. So, Jim Desmond had just been elected as mayor. And, you know, it was—there were four men on the council. Pia Harris-Sebert was our first woman ever elected to the city council. And she was the first woman, but she was really the only woman for quite a while. We did have Betty Evans that, I think, served one or two terms in between. But she wasn’t on there. And so, it was really—there were four men left on the city council. And, you know, Jim Desmond was talking about diversity back then. And, you know, he said, you know, I like what Rebecca brings to the table, the business background, which is really important. And I think everyone should have at least some sort of background as far as how you spend money. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, it’s—you don’t have a ton of money to spend and, you know, really being able to figure out how to best spend that. You know, when you’re a business owner and especially when you’re starting out a business, you are pretty much trying to figure out how you’re not going to starve. And so, that really does bring an interesting perspective, I think, to the table. Anyway, and so, I was selected. There were 27 applicants. I got up to the podium and one of the council members actually had a lot of disagreements with me. He was supportive of the second Walmart. And, you know, he brought that up. He said “Well, you know, Walmart, they’re one of your customers. They must be very forgiving because you didn’t agree with the second Walmart.” And I said, “Well, you know, it doesn’t mean that I’m against Walmart. It just meant that I didn’t think the location was okay.” And those two things—you can still feel both things and believe in both things. It doesn’t mean that you don’t like Walmart. I mean, there are a lot of people in my community that love Walmart. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, whether I’m a Walmart shopper or not, a lot of people want to shop there. And so, you know, I think it’s really important that you have a good mix of businesses. And, you know, I think I brought that to the table. But I also, you know, brought forward the part of—I really cared about, you know, being able to represent everyone. And I think I’ve been—It has been a very valuable voice at that table. SV: Mm-hmm. So, there’s not an election process for city council? Or there wasn’t at that time? RJ: Not for an appointment. No, not for an appointment. SV: Oh, because Desmond— RJ: Because I’m in an appointment. SV: Okay. Gotcha. RJ: Yeah. So, right now, there is a supervisor seat that is going to be vacated. So, there would be an opportunity for either an appointment or a special election. At that time, a special election was gauged to be around $300,000. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It’s very expensive. If you can come up with an agreement on an appointment, it makes sense, if you can come to an agreement. But it doesn’t always happen. SV: Yeah. So— RJ: And, you know, a lot of people have been appointed and have not been able to get elected. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I think there were people that actually spoke against my appointment that when they saw what I did in my first two years, before I had my first election, they went “Wow. Okay.” And they’ve been some of my biggest supporters, to be honest. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, that does actually feel good because people do recognize how hard I work. It does feel good to have that recognized. SV: Yeah. So, then you ran for reelection then around 2009 or so? RJ: 2008— SV: 2008. RJ: —then ’12, and then ’16. I was elected as a woman’s—or as a first woman mayor in our city— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —to ever serve as mayor in 2018. And then, I was reelected last year, in 2022. SV: So, what does an election look like from your perspective when you’ve decided—let’s take your first time that you’re going after your appointment when you’re going to be reelected or elected to the city council? RJ: Oh, boy. It’s a lot of fun. So, first of all, you know, you need to raise money. So, do people believe in you? Because they’re not going to definitely, you know, donate to your campaign if they don’t believe in you. So, the good thing is I did have a record and I was able to point back to that. But not only was I able to point back to that, I was able to point back to the success in my business, how hard I’d worked, and all of those things. And, you know, it’s really important, I think, that you do connect to the community because at the end of the day you can raise all the money in the world but if you don’t have the votes, it’s really irrelevant. And so, can you get—And, you know, every single time—and I’ve run five elections—I’ve thought, “Oh my gosh. I’m losing. I’m losing!” (throws her head back and laughs) I’ve had, you know, like—I remember my first campaign. Oh my gosh. I showed up to this one woman’s house. This is really deflating. And she says to me “Oh, I already voted. And I didn’t vote for you.” (Sean chuckles) And I went “Oh. Okay.” (chuckles) And then I walked away, and I thought “Shoot! You know, why didn’t she even give me a chance to tell her about myself.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, so it’s a very humbling experience. And, honestly, I would say equally humbling is actually serving because really, you know, to have people believe in you and when they say to you, “You know what? I love what you’re doing in our community” it really does feel amazing because, again, you know back to your hard work but also, I do love the community. And I do want it to be the best that it possibly can be. And so having that part acknowledged is really important to me too. But, again, very humbling. And, you know, so every single campaign I’m like “Okay. Well, if I just go by what people are saying at the doors, I’m winning! Like I’m winning!” And then I’m like “That could not be how it is. They could just be saying that to me.” And so, you know, it really is a hard thing. And not everyone can put themselves out there. It’s nerve wracking. On that election night, you’re going “Okay. Waiting for the first numbers to come up. What’s it going to be?” And, you know, I have to say my fifth election, you know this last one, it was very ugly. It was very unfair because I was, you know—it was a smear campaign, honestly, on my integrity and what I had done for all these years and trying to paint me into a box. I don’t fit into a box. I’m going to be totally honest about that. I don’t fit into a box. I’m not a politician, don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a civic leader and someone that will read everything and make good decisions for the best of everyone. And, you know, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That part is kind of hard in elected office. But if you’re making most people happy and you’ve got a safe community, a thriving community, at the end of the day that’s all you can really hope for and, you know, again making most people happy but there are going to be some people that don’t like you. I’ve had people actually comment about what I look like which is very insulting. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: What I look like has nothing to do with the kind of job that I do. And, you know, trying to call me little nicknames and that sort of thing, I’m not a robot. I am a person so it does hurt a bit. But, you know, at the end of the day I do remember, you know, some people aren’t going to like me. That’s okay. I just know, at the end of the day really, if I go to bed and I know that I’ve done a good job that day, I wake up the next day and it’s a new day and, you know, I can let things go which it does take that in this job. You do have to let a lot of things go. You know, the personal insults really don’t matter, I guess, at the end. But, you know, I’m not a robot so it does affect me a bit. And, you know, you do have to really remember just to stay true to yourself. And I really am very proud that I have done that. SV: Yeah. What is your process for self-care when you’re having a negative day or a stressful time? RJ: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I have to get to the gym. I mean, I’m just one of those people, if I don’t get enough exercise I will literally overthink things. And so, for me, I’m really getting to the gym. And my gym! Oh, gosh. So, during Covid, closed down in San Marcos. And I was like “Okay. I’m going to go to another one of them.” It was in Encinitas. But I really am very specific because it’s not a super long workout and I can do it whenever, you know, pretty much during, you know, business hours. But I like to be able to go and punch bags (laughs) and kick bags. It’s a kickbox workout. So, I’m not like punching someone. I don’t want to do that. But I do, you know—it’s a kickbox workout. So, now, I found another one. It’s in Rancho Bernardo. So, it’s not in the city which can be kind of beneficial because, you know, I’m not sweaty and looking like a mess. And then, you know, if I’m like I’m punching and I’m having an especially frustrating day, I can do that. The other thing I really love to do is hike. I admittedly have not hiked in a very long time. I actually, a few years ago, hiked in the Tetons. So, I had to do a lot of training for that. So, I was out on the trails two and three times a week which it’s actually better for me when I can find that time. The job is very, you know, —it does entail a lot of time for me. So, it is tough for me to actually do that during the day. And, you know, when we have rainy weather, that doesn’t help. Or weather that’s too hot, that doesn’t help. So, you know, really trying to find the time to at least do that. And then I love to cook. So, during the pandemic, I started cooking for a few elderly people. And so, I have some folks that I cook for. And when I need a mental health moment, I just go in my kitchen and I just cook up a storm and several meals and I mean soups and I just try lots of different, new recipes and find things that I can tweak and make my own. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: But those are the things that I do. I do try to do that. I don’t get massages. I really need a massage many times though. I don’t really take the time to do that. So, really, the biggest thing is exercise and then getting that cooking in. You know, and then everyone benefits from it. SV: Yeah. RJ: Because I’m actually not a bad cook, so— (chuckles) SV: So, what’s your best dish? RJ: Oh, gosh. Well, that has evolved. I don’t know. I’ve become quite the soup maker. But I do have my tried and true. I’m really good at prime rib and au gratin potatoes. My kids are always like “Mom” —and, you know, they’re older. They’re twenty. Actually my daughter will be 23 in a few weeks, and my son just turned 27. You know, whenever they, you know, want a good meal, they’re like “Mom. Could you make this? Or can you make that?” and then I made chicken fingers for the first time ever. And they’re like “Mom. These are like the best I’ve ever had.” So, anyway, I’m like “Well, I could teach you how to do it.” And so, you know, I’ve had them over a couple of times and, you know, teaching people to cook, honestly is—You know, there are a lot of people that don’t cook in this world, and I think, you know, the less we eat processed food, the better it is for us. And so, I like to, you know—I cook almost solely organic. I try not to eat heavily processed food. I think it’s better for me. You know, I’m going to be 56 next year—Oh, oh my gosh. Not next year. This year! Oh, gosh! In a few weeks. Oh, gosh, about a month. So, yeah. I’ll be 56. You know, I think our bodies can actually be healthier and mentally better when we’re, you know, putting the right food in them and then also getting exercise too. So, I try to definitely do all that to take care of myself. I know that’s a long story but those are the things that I do. (chuckles) SV: Yeah. Well, thank you for answering. And I asked the food question because I used to be a chef. So, I’m always interested to know about people’s experiences. RJ: Oh, wow! Nice. Nice. SV: And then exercise, I agree. I mean, it’s so important. I think to bring it back to our interview, you know, something that I take advantage of is the bike lanes. RJ: Oh, yeah. SV: And I was curious as to what your—You know, you’ve talked about transit. You’ve talked about micro-transit and, you know, what your priorities are in terms of pedestrian and two-wheeled transit as well. RJ: Yeah. Thanks for asking that. So, actually, at SANDAG, this is kind of interesting, I had actually voted against spending $140, I think it was $140 million dollars on bike lanes. And I had one of our residents send me a message. And he said, “You’re the worst mayor ever!” And I was like “Oh. Wow.” And he said, “I can’t believe how you don’t like cyclists.” And I said, “Well, that’s not exactly how that went.” And so, I explained, you know, that there’s no reason that bike lanes should be costing $5 million dollars a mile. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: That’s way too expensive. There’s no way that should be happening on a road that is literally already there. So, I said, you know, I had an issue with that. I have a real problem spending money in a wasteful way. And, you know, so I said, “Hey, let’s meet.” I sat down with him. He’s now a fan and definitely not, you know, against me any longer because he didn’t really know all of the reasons that I felt the way that I felt. I think getting input from cyclists is really important. You know, again, back to the point that we have 72 miles of, you know, trails. Those are often times, you know, available for cyclists and, you know, pedestrians, hikers, even horses because we still have horses in San Marcos. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, I am really proud about that. The one thing that, you know, I’ve done a lot of research on the different types of bike lanes, and I’m not sold on the cycle tracks. A lot of times the very serious cyclists are saying to me, “Rebecca, they’re very dangerous because you are confined in a space.” They look safe. Maybe for kids they’re safe. But they’re very expensive, first of all. And they really are not super safe because if you hit that curb for whatever reason, you could be thrown off of your bicycle and end up in the middle of a lane. That’s not very safe. Or there is a lot of crashes if you’ve got like—you know, most cyclists are in packs. Hardly anyone goes by themselves. I have a lot of friends that are very serious cyclists that, since this whole thing came forward, I’ve actually just from my friend group—and I do have some serious cyclists now in it. And they don’t really like those tracks. So, in my opinion, any time that we can have a sharrow, which is the bike lane that is a full lane with cyclists in it and then a car only lane, I think that’s probably a really good idea. Any time we can have a split because you’re not limited on space or real estate and have, you know, a separate bike lane that’s by itself but without all of the little candlesticks and the curbs and all that, I think that’s a good idea. It’s not always possible because a lot of times you’re putting them in after the fact. I would like to see more education. I am concerned that some people get really upset with cyclists. And some cyclists—I have to tell you. I actually had a property down at the beach, a second property, with my ex and, you know, every time I would go to back out of the driveway cyclists would come and they would like not pay attention to me. And I would go “Well, they’re not the only one on the road.” And then I would see them running stoplights and stop signs. And that actually upsets motorists. I hear people say it all the time. And I go, “I get where you’re coming from. However…” You know, I try to defend cyclists. But, you know, if we all ran by the same rules or all, you know, followed the same rules, that would actually be optimum. You’re probably never going to see that, you know. There are always people that are going to break rules. It’s just how it is. And they shouldn’t spoil it for everyone. And so, you know, I have to say I am very, very careful around cyclists, and I really wish everyone was because the truth is a cyclist is never going to win against your car. SV: Yeah. RJ: It, you know—And, you know, as soon as, you know, you hear of, you know, a cyclist getting hit by a car and they’re like “Oh, it’s obviously the car’s fault.” Sometimes it isn’t. I mean, really sometimes it isn’t. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I do think we need to, again, create the opportunities, education and, you know, let’s just get into eBikes for one second. The kids should not be on the eBikes that are above their ability. It is a moving vehicle. It is like being on a moped or a motorcycle. I am—oftentimes, I see the kids, you know, going wayward and crazy on them. And you know what? It’s a recipe for disaster. And then, you know what? There are accidents that happen. And, you know, it shouldn’t be all on the driver. The cyclists, you know, including the eBikes really need to be responsible. I really would love to see more education in that. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: I have brought that up numerous times. I think the school district really should take a lead in this. I know our deputies at our Sheriff’s station do it as well. But, you know, a lot of kids are riding them to school. And it’s very dangerous. Parents, pay attention! (laughs) SV: Yep. RJ: They just think, “Oh, it’s just a bicycle.” It’s really not. And it really is very dangerous and, you know, we can’t parent the kids. That’s not our job. The parents need to parent their kids and they need to teach them how to be responsible with their bicycles, their eBikes especially. SV: Yeah. eBikes are a new wrinkle to resolve, I think, in the whole transit conversation. RJ: They are. And scary! It really is scary but, you know, very beneficial because they can take you longer and, you know, longer distances quicker. And you don’t have to be in super good shape to use them. But if you’re not responsible with them, they’re very, very dangerous. SV: Yeah. They’re good for the hills around here too. RJ: Yeah. For sure. I know. Someone said “Oh, yeah, just, you know, ride your bicycle around town.” And I’m like “Yeah. That’s—” We’re very hilly in San Marcos. SV: Yep. (both laugh) All right. So, we talked a little bit about your campaign, that first campaign, in 2008. I guess I wanted to circle back a little bit to even before that, to the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force that you served on from 2005-2007. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: And I was just curious as to what was the goal of the Task Force? RJ: It was to come up with a plan of mixed use and utilizing that entire area which, by the way, you know, we’ve been updating our general plan. We’ve put that on hold for now and we’re going to have a greater emphasis on bringing the Creek District part into that because we do need to update that plan. So, FEMA has updated the flood plain and all of those, you know, different areas are going to be changed due to in a 100-year flood, what happens? You know, if we get the torrential sort of rain that we had, you know, recently, another time or worse than that, oh my gosh. It makes a big difference. We have—excuse me (hiccups) —we haven’t had a situation where it’s flooded all the way from Escondido. But it could very well happen. And so, you know, being prepared is important. You’re not going to build a bunch of buildings in the flood way. It just isn’t going to happen. Currently, there is, you know, the Valley Christian School that’s over there. It’s in the flood way. So, they can’t, you know, change their buildings or anything like that. The reason I bring that up is that’s kind of like the edge of the Creek District area and then it goes all the way over behind Grand, or right around Grand. And there’s actually affordable housing that’s right in that area. So, what we did is we approved a plan for that. And then we also started getting the permits from the agencies so we could build the infrastructure. The infrastructure will be done this year. That’s a big first step in actually moving that forward. But, then again, you know we still need to incorporate the part of the land use changes are going to happen. We also have had people like Gary London come in and say “You’ve got too much commercial to the residential. You’re going to need to make some tweaks.” So, it likely will not build as dense as we had originally approved. So, we really do need to update it and bring in those changes, you know, bringing in the flood plain. And then also the fact that the infrastructure is actually done also changes things too. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, the emphasis will be on getting that updated as well as the general plan. SV: Okay. So, the original goal then with the Task Force and into when you served on it then was to create the plan that is now kind of being put into effect. RJ: Yes, exactly. SV: And did it account for a Creek District at that time? Because the Creek District is going to be like a public/private partnership that will help with development. RJ: Well, there was 62 property owners in there today. SV: Okay. RJ: You know, when we approved that, yeah. It was to bring an it, a place, a place where people could come— SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: —congregate, as I had mentioned earlier, and really, you know, a space where it would be, you know, open. And, you know, you could have, you know, different community events there and that sort of thing. Also, North City is that way. North City we actually approved as a university district back in 2009. We always thought the Creek would come first. Well, University District has now really become. And again, you know, we don’t even have an actual downtown in San Marcos. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, you know, creating a downtown, creating that space. It looks like North City is becoming that. You know, we’ve got the Belgian Waffle Ride coming this weekend. It’s the largest cycling event in the western United States. It’s a big deal. Thousands of cyclists are coming from all over. They’re going to be eating in our city. They’re going to be staying here. We don’t have a ton of hotels. There are going to be a couple of other ones in North City and then also in the Creek District eventually. But really creating that downtown was one of the things that we really wanted to do. But we always saw North City—a university district back then when we approved it—and then the creek, because they connect. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Having that as a center core for the city. SV: When do you think North City will be built out? RJ: Oof. Well, that depends on so many different things. If I had a crystal ball, I could answer that. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, they’ve been (sighs), they’ve been through a downturn in the economy. They’ve been through a pandemic. You know, they’ve been through a lot. If you go there today, you know, they’ve got several restaurants. They’ve got the only, first of its kind, building with the university which is the Extended Learning Building because there’s nothing like that in all of California. And then you’ve got like Mesa Rim. You’ve got Draft Republic which was the old Urge Gastropub. You have Newtopia Cyder, Fresh Café, Maya’s Cookies, Wynston’s Ice Cream, Copa Vida, Buona Forcbetta, Umami, a lot of things happening there but, you know, not the residences. You have a little bit of residence there. You’ve got the quad, which is university, you know, kids that live there. And then you have Block C. And then you have the block that’s The Wrap behind. And then also, you know, don’t forget too Pima Medical is right there. And then, you know, you’ve got medical offices now, Scripps Health. And so, a lot of things are happening. It really is on the edge of becoming something much bigger. They have broken ground on and they’re moving forward with the first large-scale residential in there. And it’s going to be about 12 stories high. And so that will really be a game changer, I think, for North City. I think that will be what brings the really the grocery store and the other businesses that they need that can actually handle those residents and offer the services that they need. And, you know, that’s always what the Creek was envisioned. I mean these are things that I learned when we were, you know, going on these field trips to old Pasadena and, you know, all these different places that were mixed use because we didn’t really have much mixed use at that time in the city. We have a little bit over off of Mission but it’s very, very small scale. You know, having the meeting spaces, having the, you know, congregation spaces where you can have like an open-air amphitheater, something like that, that’s all things that really we started with the planning of the Creek District. Again, you know, we have to update that. But really—And it, you know, kind of grew into also North City being part of that, being a large scale downtown core area for us. SV: Yeah. There is a lot of construction going on right now. RJ: Yes. There is. SV: You have the infrastructure going on along the Creek District. You have it seems like three or four different projects right around North City and in North City. RJ: Yeah. So, you know, okay. So, back when I was selling new homes in my early twenties, I was working at Discovery Creek, Discovery Trail, so Discovery Hills. And back then we had, you know, this big map that showed everything that was going to happen in the, you know, the adjoining property. Back then, Craven wasn’t even there. I mean this—just to date myself of how long I’ve been around in San Marcos. First moved here in 1987. Just looking at, you know, what it was going to be with Kaiser Hospital, Scripps Hospital which isn’t going to happen now. But they are going to have medical offices, much like Carmel Mount Ranch. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: So, pretty large-scale medical offices. You know, unfortunately, you know medical is always something that we need. And, you know, fortunately though we’ve got some space to put that. You know, we don’t want people to have to go all the way down to Carmel Mount Ranch to go to a doctor. And, you know, currently Kaiser Permanente doesn’t have a hospital. The nearest one is Mira Mesa. So, 180,000 subscribers in North County have to go all the way there for a hospital. So, it’s going to be opening up in August I’m told. They’ve got a ribbon cutting all scheduled. And the Creek project, the infrastructure, it’s about $112 million to start. That is our largest capital improvement project we’ve ever had. We broke ground on that on my one-year anniversary of taking office as Mayor, which is exciting being that, you know, I’d only been talking about it for 10-12 years (laughs) before that. And, you know, before me many other councils had talked about it. You know, this year is our 60th anniversary or birthday, and our sister city Vista, it’s their birthday as well. We were incorporated on January 28, 1963. And so, here we are. We’re in our birthday year, opening up our largest capital improvement project, opening up our hospital. I mean, a lot is happening. There’s also an extension of Discovery which is about $40 million as well, 30-40 million. That is going from Craven all the way through to Twin Oaks. That’s a big deal too, getting that done. But, you know, we’re trying to move people around in a meaningful way. That will be one of our first corridors that has intuitive lighting, stop lights that will help people get through. But one of the things that I’ve really focused on that I want to get done is to make sure that we’re getting the traffic flow better. Traffic, it does feel like it’s at its worst. That’s one of the things that my opponent was using against me during the campaign. I’m like “Well, we’ve got all this road construction. Sure as heck, we’re going to have terrible traffic right now.” But when it’s done, I believe it will be a significant improvement. You know, getting the flooding to stop so you no longer have that. Being able to have two lanes over Via Veracruz is a big deal. And I remember originally when we were talking about, you know, the Bent Crossing. We talked about a—to save money, well, what if we did an Arizona Crossing, which I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. SV: I’m not. RJ: It would still flood! SV: Okay. RJ: And I said “No. No. No. Let’s, let’s not do that.” So, we were able to apply for federal funds. And so, a lot of it is grant funded but a lot of money also comes from San Marcos residents. So again, you know, back to wanting to spend their money wisely. Helping move them around the city is really important. We appreciate everyone being so patient—not always patient. But, you know, it has been a tough, tough project because we’ve had unprecedented rain this year, of course. Of course, it had to happen! Just when we weren’t expecting it to happen. But, you know, it would have been a heck of a lot worse had we not had the bridge at Bent opened. I think that could have been actually dangerous for our residents if we had not gotten so far ahead on that. But that will be done probably about a July timeframe. So, the infrastructure will be done. The hospital will come right after that in August. I would say it’s a good year, a good year that we’re getting a lot done, you know, the hospital done and everything, just a lot of good things for our residents. And again, you know, the jobs that we’re providing too, that’s a thousand jobs at Kaiser Permanente. So, those are some really good high-paying jobs. I think that’s a huge win. I’m really proud of that. You know, when I first got the call from their west coast person, he said to me “Are you still interested in the hospital?” And I was like “Where do I sign up?” (laughs) Because, yes! Of course, I’m still interested. Anything we can do to help make that happen, you know. And, you know, also having the university have, you know, the nursing program has been really important. And then, you know, also over at Palomar because, you know, these are also the ability to teach, you know, hands on is a big deal. And, you know, we’re becoming a healthcare hub, now, of North County which is great, you know, with the hospital opening up and then Scripps are moving forward with their big medical offices. It’s, you know, again it’s sad that people are not healthy, however good that they have the ability to get those healthcare options close to home. SV: Yeah. RJ: And the good jobs, of course. SV: Yes. RJ: Yeah. SV: Yeah. Definitely. RJ: In fact, my niece actually just got her nurse’s license. So, very exciting. SV: Congratulations to your niece. RJ: Yes, very exciting. SV: I wanted to circle back a little bit to 2018 and just ask you why did you decide to run for mayor then? RJ: Oosh, well, I decided well before 2018. I actually decided when I was getting elected in 2016 as mayor. I talked to my husband at the time and, you know, ’18 was a tough year, I have to tell you. I was finishing up my divorce. He told me he didn’t want to be married anymore in 2017. So, I was in the middle of a divorce. I had to sell the property, buy a property. I moved 10 days after the election. A lot of people don’t know how hard that was. It was really tough. But, you know, what I knew that, again, you know being apolitical, really pretty apolitical, was an important thing for our future. I think also, you know, having these large-scale things coming up. I wanted to see them through. And, you know, I have to tell you, looking back and seeing all that we have been able to accomplish during my time on the council, I’m so proud. I know that when I’m ready to retire, I can look back and be very proud of what I’ve been able to accomplish with very, you know, diverse group of people. We now have three women, by the way, on the city council which is great. But, you know, again, you know, for 2018 having the first mayor that’s a female, that’s pretty surprising. You know, as progressive as the city is and, you know, how entrepreneurial we’ve really been, I always thought it would be Pia Harris Ebert, which she has been a wonderful mentor to me. I can’t express enough how much I value her leadership, all of her 24 years on the city council. But, you know, when she told me she was retiring, I said, “What?? You can’t go!” and she said, “You know what? I can look back and I can be very proud.” I mean we used to be known for our chicken ranch and then our dairy. And that was it! We were known as a chicken ranch and dairy city, not for higher learning education, being a great place to run a family, a great school district. We were never known for that. We were known for other things. So, I really am proud of how we’ve elevated who we’ve become, the city that we are, and all that we have accomplished. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, the things needed to be seen through and now, you know, I’m on my second term as mayor just, you know, getting reelected last year. I am very happy. I’m very happy. But I’m also, you know, as concerned about, you know, creating opportunity for a new team to come in that is like-minded, focusing on us being a safe city, focusing on us being an entrepreneurial city, also making sure that we are serving our community and providing awesome trails and parks and all of that. And it becomes very challenging when you’re an infill city, and as built out as we are. So, you know, it’s got to be, you know, trying to find good people that want to come after me. And that’s, you know, what both Pia Harris Ebert and Hal Martin did. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And I appreciate that. And I take that responsibility very seriously as well. So, that’s what I’m going to be doing the next three years, three and a half years. And then, you know, making sure that we stay focused. And we’re going to have some tough financial times. You know, it’s—business has not come back the way that we’ve all hoped. And so, you know, we hear of layoffs all the time. You know, General Atomics, I think they laid off 400 people last week. That’s a lot! So, having those challenges you really do need to have a good team in there. But, you know, I’m trying to bring other people forward because that’s a big part of, you know, a succession plan. It’s really important. SV: Yeah. You mentioned businesses haven’t come back. Were you referring to from the pandemic? RJ: Correct. Yes. SV: Yeah. RJ: Just not in the way—you know, we do have a lot of businesses that have opened. But, you know, we also lost some. I mean, San Marcos Brewery, I still am sad about that, you know, a long-time business in our city, gone. Couldn’t keep their doors open with the open and closing and all of that. There are a lot of stories like that, unfortunately. And so, you know, being able to support the business community, I work a lot at that. I mean if I—I try to do everything I possibly can to support our businesses. And, you know, it’s not like one business. It’s thousands, you know. We’ve got like four tho—let me think here—four thousand businesses here in the city. It’s a lot! SV: Yeah. RJ: It’s a lot. It’s actually upwards of four thousand. And, you know, many of those are store fronts and they’re very small and, you know, they’re family owned. And, you know, I love that. I love that they’re thriving. I love that they’re doing well. I was actually just at a business opening a couple of weeks ago. The father-in-law of this young woman that just opened a brand-new business, he is a long-time business owner in San Marcos, twenty—I think twenty-six years he’s been in business. So, you know, seeing those generations, you know, staying in the city, opening up new businesses. I love that. But, you know, they’re going to need our help. And, you know, they need us to congregate and go to their businesses and, you know, spend our money here locally. And I try to always, you know, emphasize that. You know, during the pandemic, I tirelessly spent so much time on, you know, media just hey talking about all of our great businesses, and what about this and what about that and you know they need us now. But they need us still now. It’s not going to end. And, you know, a lot of them are really struggling. So, as costs go up, people eat out less. They spend less of their money. And so, we’ve got to remember that, when you can, try to spend it locally, whenever possible. SV: Yeah. I imagine a lot of governance is trying to minimize the bad impacts of change, you know, unforeseen or foreseen. And you talked a little bit about the pandemic. I was curious as to, you know, what you could do to lessen the burden on folks during that time and what you all did do. RJ: Gosh. Wow, we did a lot actually. We were the first city that—you know, we have always had very good reserves. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: You know, that’s something that is because we’ve been very fiscally responsible. That money is for rainy days. And when the pandemic came, that was a rainy day. SV: Yeah. RJ: It really was. And so, we set aside $3 million. We were the first city, I believe. The only other city that may have actually beat us was the city of San Diego. But I think they set aside like $5 million. We set aside $3 million. They’ve got a population of 1.3 million. SV: Yeah. RJ: We have a population of under 100. So, I think we really outshined them in that. And I’m really proud that we did that. And that is, you know, that’s being very, very pro-business. I’ve always been pro-business, you know, being that I owned my own business and I know how hard it was. I thought that was something that we should do. And I wholeheartedly believe it’s the right thing to do for our community. But, anyway, so we did that. And we had business loans. So, it was small business loans up to $50,000, depending on your circumstances. We hired an outside company to do all the credit checks. And just, you know, you couldn’t be late prior to Covid. You know, you had to meet a few guidelines. But we were very intentional about trying to get that money out fast, as fast as possible. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: The federal government didn’t have any money out. And we had already saved a lot of businesses. Then the other thing that we did is we were the first city that had our businesses, as soon as the governor—I remember watching the press conference. And Governor Newsom said, when he was talking about some of the businesses could no longer be operating inside, but he didn’t say outside! I was on the phone to our economic development director, and I said, “I’m thinking we can have outside businesses. What can we do to make this as quick as possible.” And we had people moving their businesses. And it was a lot of services, like haircutting and all of that. And then there was another issue about that because—and, you know, restaurants and everything. But there was another issue with that because they didn’t have their business licenses. So, we were actually fighting to open up. And, you know, I mean, again, tirelessly, the letters that I sent to the governor. I mean, I was on full blown action I felt like the whole time, which is very exhausting. SV: Yeah. RJ: But it was like okay, let’s get those businesses moved outside as soon as they can. And we had businesses and we’re like “Don’t worry about your permit. We’re going to check, make sure that you are following it. Just follow these guidelines and we’ll come and check on you.” We had businesses out there before any other. And we didn’t charge anyone a fee. There were a lot of cities that were out there charging them a fee. We’re like no. We need our businesses to stay in place. We need to support them, and we can’t just say that we’re supporting them. We actually have to do it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And so, I am really proud that we did that. And, you know again, we didn’t close all of our trails. We were not very out in public, you know, screaming it from the rooftops that we’re open because we didn’t want our city residents to feel crowded because all of the other residents from the other cities were coming, though some people knew about them. It was just—it was important for us to do everything we could to support the community. So, fast forward to when we received our federal funds, we were actually able to take all of those loans and make them grants so they didn’t have to be paid back. That was huge. SV: Yeah. RJ: The other thing that we did is we set aside some of our ARPA funds to help our non-profits. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: Because they were really hurting at that time too. And I am so proud of all of the things that we did during the pandemic because it was us being innovative, us cutting through the red tape, and us working hard to support our businesses and our community and our non-profits. Because our non-profits support our residents, right? And then the other thing that we also did is—and it’s not our responsibility, though we recognized that our community, our youth were doing very poorly. You know, I’ve been involved with the Boys and Girls Club for many years. And one of the things that they—I was having a conversation with them—one of the things that they were saying is that many of the kids that are at risk were not checking in. And so, you know, you’ve got parents that are very frustrated. The kids are at risk of being abused or neglected. And you’ve got this ultra tough situation happening. So, the mental health of our community, you know, we’ve really tried to focus on that too. And so, one of the things that we did for our youth in the community is we partnered with the school district, and we are equally funding the mental health program that they have rolled out to help the kids bounce back and figure out. You know, a lot of them are so confused. A lot of them have learning deficits. They don’t know how to articulate that, their frustration, their fear and, you know, just getting sick. You know, a lot of them are terrified of getting sick. And, you know, what is life going to be? It’s very different. SV: Yeah. RJ: You know, back to the whole pivot—I mean, I know pivot is kind of overused during the pandemic, but it’s a real thing. And so, for us as a city, you know, we made an intentional effort to do what we could to also help the kids. And, you know again, I think I told you this a little bit earlier, you know, I had people—I felt like a counselor many times during the pandemic. I had some of our folks calling me up and sending me messages and saying, you know, “I’m scared.” And so, I would check in on people and let them know, “Hey. You know what? You’re seen. You’re heard. We care about you.” So, you know, mayor’s job is not just all legislation. You know, there’s a lot of parts to it. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I think something that a lot of people think is really, it’s just all about rules and regulations. That’s all your job is. Well, I think as a mayor especially, and a councilmember to some degree, but I think as a mayor I’m the figurehead pretty much for the city council. A lot of people know who the mayor is, and they might not know who their councilperson is. For me to be the face of our city, out there letting people know that we care about them and letting them know that it’s not all about rules and regulations. We actually had a young man that was murdered within our community by one of his friends. He was in his early 20s. And, you know, we renamed a trail after him, actually the Gratitude Trail in his memory, right there around Discovery Lake because us doing things to help our community heal in tough times, in tragic times, is really important. And I really do think that that’s a part of government that sometimes people are like “Well, I’m a politician. I don’t have to do that.” Yeah, you don’t have to do it. But I think doing it is important because, again, you know, how—you know, during the pandemic, people needed to know we care about you. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: We care about your businesses. We’re all in with you. We’re going to do everything we can to keep you open and do it safely, of course. But, you know, when it was all the big businesses could stay open and then the small businesses were closed. They couldn’t adapt to that! SV: Yeah. RJ: Many of them went out of business. And, you know, so we had to make it so that it’s easy for every small business to get a fair shake, to be treated like a large business, you know, while also following the health order. So, it was a real tough time. And, again you know, back to grief. You’ve got to deal with grief too within a community and figure out how to move people forward. And, you know, one of the things that I think is always important is, even if you’re taking baby steps moving forward, you’ve got to move forward. Whatever that looks like. And sometimes it’s very different than two weeks ago even. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And, you know, I mean when the pandemic hit, remember, two weeks! Staying home. SV: Yeah. We have a archive that we started mostly with the students, but with community as well, trying to record experiences during that time. RJ: Yeah. SV: And it’s amazing so many students especially writing “I thought I was going to have a two-week vacation and here I am a year later.” And, you know, it’s just— RJ: Yeah. SV: —it’s just a traumatic experience all the way around. RJ: For sure. And, you know, I mean that is a part, I think, of being a mayor during a pandemic that I—you know, it’s kind of interesting. I was on a Zoom with some girl scouts, and they said to me “If you knew there was going to be a pandemic, would you still run for mayor?” (Sean laughs) And it was funny because I didn’t even hesitate and I said, “Absolutely!” SV: Yeah. RJ: And the reason being is because I was the right person at the right time. I am very positive and I’m very—I mean, you know, the glass is not half-full. The glass is almost to the top, right? There’s always a way to bring everyone together. There’s always a way to, you know, encourage people. And, you know, that’s what I did! My job changed. But I kept working. And, you know, there were a lot of people that really needed to be seen and I let them know they were being seen. SV: Yeah. RJ: I think without hesitation I am glad that I was the mayor at that point in time. SV: Mm-hmm. It’s a really interesting thing that you say about there being—I guess you’re saying so your job is obviously legislation. But it’s also emotional labor and care and I’m hearing as well, communication is important. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: What are some other aspects? I guess my question is what would surprise people the most about your job that people don’t know? RJ: Oh, that’s a tough one. Gosh, I don’t even know if I have an answer to that. You know, it’s interesting. So, Jeff Zevely, he’s from Channel 8. He actually was doing a show on our birthday. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And he said to me, he goes “You know, if San Marcos had a cheer squad, would you be on it?” and I said, “I’m the head cheerleader! What are you talking about?” (both chuckle) And he even said to me after the interview, he goes “You were so fast. You didn’t even like stop for one second.” I said, “Well, that’s my job.” My job is to not just deal with all the tough stuff. It’s also to be out advocating that San Marcos is a great place to live. We have so much for—You know, you can start out, you know, as a baby. And pretty soon you’ll be able to be born here (indicates quotations with her fingers), actually born here, because—I mean, I guess you could be born at your house if you’ve got a midwife or something but, you know, it’s not a traditional thing. You could be born here, and you can earn a master’s degree and then you could work here, and you could have a good paying job. Like that is a remarkable thing if you look at our city from our humble roots: one stop light, chicken ranch, the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch right here where the university is today. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And Hollandia Dairy. That’s all we were known for. And so, yeah, I would say a lot of people might not know what that entails but it’s a lot of time and effort. I can assure you of that. SV: Yeah. RJ: Like it’s almost more than the actual job, although I do a lot of reading. So, that’s probably the most time consuming part of my job, you know, because when I show up, you know, I’ve even had people at SANDAG say—that are a different political party than me—say, “You know, I might not—” And actually this happened like maybe, well it’s happened a few times, but in the last couple of weeks, where this man got up and he said, “You know, Mayor Jones—” and I’m like going “Oh gosh. What’s he going to say?” (both laugh) You never know, right? And then he says, “Mayor Jones, even though I philosophically don’t agree with you on everything, I appreciate that you are always prepared, and you know exactly what you’re talking about because you’re prepared.” And it really does require a lot of time and effort. And, you know, there are times I wake up and I’m like “I’m tired today. I don’t want to work.” But I don’t get that luxury. I have to do what I have to do. And I’ve got to pull it together. And it is a very—you know, the cheerleading part of it and I’m not saying it, you know, like a cheerleader—but, you know, being again the spokesperson, the person that’s in the front, the person that’s out and about the most, probably one of the most identifiable positions in the community—even if people don’t know me, they know that there’s a mayor. You know, to be the mayor of such an incredible city, I’m really humbled by it. I really am. But it does take a lot of effort and it does take a lot of, you know, inner strength. And, you know, I had a pretty tough childhood and, you know, I was a latchkey kid a lot of the time. And, you know, my parents got divorced when I was eleven which is a really tough age. And I had a lot of things happen where I just go “Gosh, I wish it wouldn’t have been my life.” However, it was. But you know what? It also gives me the authority when people are, you know, telling me “You know, I’m going through tough times,” I get it! I was there. I’ve been there. And, you know, I think it helps me do a very good job. And, you know, not everyone thinks I do a good job. But I just got reelected so— SV: Yep! RJ: —again, 64% of the vote. I don’t think I mentioned that before. But the largest margin I’ve ever won by, I think that is a testament to how much I care for the community, how hard I work for the community, and the fact that it’s not all about legislation to me. It really is about being the cheerleader and the person that’s out in the front, talking about what a remarkable community we have. And when I say, “the community,” it’s the people. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: It’s not me. It’s people that I represent. And I hope that they will always feel like they can reach out to me, and I will always try to help them in whatever I can. SV: Yeah. Thank you. I think I had maybe one or two more questions. But something that I didn’t necessarily prepare to talk about in this interview, I wanted to ask you about was you mentioned you’re the first mayor that was elected that’s a woman in San Marcos history. RJ: Mm-hmm. SV: And I was curious if there are considerations that, in your opinion, that women politicians have to take into account that men do not. RJ: Huh! (Sean chuckles) Well… SV: I know that’s a big question. RJ: Well, I’m also not married. So, it actually is quite awkward— SV: Yeah. RJ: —in a lot of ways, you know, because I am out there. It opens it up for—And, you know, there’s a lot of discussion about bias, right? SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: There is still bias against women. It’s sad. But there are. And women politicians! I don’t know if people are surprised all the time. But, I mean, I have been, I mean, I’ve been called names. I’ve been, you know, people try to box me in as I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to believe that it’s 2023 and things still happen the way that they happen because, you know, talking about what I look like, what my body looks like. I’ve had people actually talk about what my body looks like! I’m thinking, wow! You know? Would you say that to your mother? Because I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t. And so, you know, at a job like this that’s very out there, very highly visible—and I am highly visible—you know, I’ve had a few times, very inappropriate comments, inappropriate messages sent to me. And, you know, a couple of times I’m like “Gee, should I be worried?” And I send everything to the Sheriff’s department when I have things that are sent to me that are uncomfortable. But it’s different than being a man. One hundred percent. It’s very different than being a man. I don’t think you have to worry about people talking about what you look like. I don’t think that any man as a mayor would have people sending them messages about what they look like. SV: Yeah. RJ: I don’t think it would ever happen. Now, I don’t really mean if someone says “Oh, I really like how your style.” That’s not sexual. But the truth is a lot of things that are sent are very sexual and I think—I am actually flabbergasted, and you know I’m almost 56 years old. I’m flabbergasted that at 56 years old, as an elected mayor, that I would be treated like this. But it happens! SV: Yeah. RJ: It’s really hard to believe. And, honestly, I feel bad for every woman that is just trying to do a job and it gets distracted and convoluted by people bringing in other things that are just not appropriate. It’s just not appropriate. I mean, talking about what I look like or whether they—I mean, the first thing that someone said to me—I was offended but it was early on—was that my teeth were freakishly white. And I went (makes a puzzled and slightly disgusted look on her face) “Why would someone talk about that?” I don’t even think someone would say that about a man. SV: Yeah. RJ: But I feel like, as a woman, on some level there is this—it’s open to talk about what you’re wearing, what you look like, whether they think you are, you know, someone they would want to date or someone—I mean, like really inappropriate things when you’re just trying to darn well do a job, you know what I mean? So, it really is just hard to believe that here we are in 2025—or 2023. Gosh, I can’t even believe I just said that. (both laugh) SV: What would your advice— RJ: You can cut that part out! (both still laughing) SV: We’ll make a note. What would your advice be to women entering politics? RJ: That’s another tough one. You know, I have a podcast too. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And one of the things about my podcast that I love is that you’ve got women from every different, you know, career, all different political parties. It’s not at all political. But they’re all just doing their job and they found something that they love. So, I guess one of the things that I would tell women that are thinking about politics, if you love it, you should definitely do it because you’re going to be very, very effective when you can put your heart into it. There is a lot of preparation that happens. And like for me, you know, I now am the one with the historical knowledge because I’ve been around so long. There is a lot to learn. I mean, you really do need to try to figure out why things happened. I mean, when I first joined the council, I spent every single Friday, like half a day, with the City Manager because he was with the city for like 24 years to find out everything I could about the why and the how and, you know, just how things happen because I thought that would prepare me which it has. But don’t let the things—I mean, you are going to have to have thick skin. It’s true. You are going to have to have thick skin, thicker than a man that goes into politics. But don’t be deterred by people. You really need to follow what you think is right and bringing in your own style. Like I don’t know anyone that does my job the way that I do it because I do it my way. And I don’t let any political party call me up and tell me what to do. I follow what I believe is right. And I follow the kind of politician that I want to be, though I don’t really consider myself politician, technically I am. But I really just want to do a good job. I want to be prepared. I think as a woman you probably have to be a little more prepared. Otherwise, people will start thinking that “Well, you don’t belong there. You’re not smart enough. You’re not this.” It really is about taking information and making a good decision. If you’re a good decision-maker, you can do this job. You’re qualified. You love the community, you’re qualified. If you are willing to put a lot into it, you’re qualified. Not everyone has that qualification. And when I say qualification, it’s not just what others believe but it’s what you believe on the inside. And, you know again, back to my podcast, my podcast is about elevating women because we really still need elevating. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: As, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, different segments of the population whether you’re a minority, whatever, it really still is about women too. We do fit into that. The equity and the inclusion isn’t all about your race. It’s about also your gender because our gender still is a hinderance. And some people don’t see that. And I wish more people paid attention to that because when you’re a woman, you’re a minority. You really do have more against you than a man that’s a minority. And as a woman that is not a minority, you still have things against you that are something that a man would not experience. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And I wish more people really paid attention to that. But, you know, back to the point of if you’re a woman and you really want to, if you have a heart for politics, you should not let any one person or segment of people deter you if you really, really have the heart for it because you can do it. It just is going to be probably a little harder than it is for a man. SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that answer. And I think it’s wonderful advice. RJ: Thank you. SV: I’ll give you a much nicer question. RJ: Nah, that’s not a hard question at all! I, honestly, and I really do believe it. I mean, it’s terrible! It really is terrible that we’re still there, in 2023. SV: Yeah. RJ: Why did I say 2025? I don’t know. (Sean laughs) SV: It happens. What is the best day of work that you’ve had? RJ: Oh, gosh. There have been a lot of them. I would say I had a really good one recently. And it’s weird because, you know, it’s always something different. But honestly, when I am out in the community at an event and there are kids and they ask me things like—I was at the Boys and Girls Club and I was, of all things, baking cookies with them. So, let me tell you a little story. So, during the pandemic, we decided at West Lake Village that we, the city, that we were—well, we already knew that we were going to have a long-term lease for the Boys and Girls Club so they could expand their services at that location. And then, when we got some of our ARPA funds, we were like okay, we’ll help them with the TIs (tenant improvements) because then that’ll be good for the community because kids can go there and, you know, spend, you know, more time there. So, anyway, I was like “Oh, they’re going to have a kitchen there.” And I was like “That’s so cool.” So, I called up the director—and by the way, I started a girls mentoring program at the Boys and Girls Club which during the pandemic we had to kind of shut down. But I used my tax refund to put some money into it. And I said to them, I said “You know what would be great?” I go, “I really want to come back and spend more time with the kids,” because I’ve been so busy since I got elected as mayor. I don’t always have time to do all the things I really want to do. And I said, “Can I come back and, you know, bake cookies with the kids?” And they were like “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “So, I want to also donate a mixer.” You know, not all kids get to use a really nice KitchenAid mixer. But it’s really cool to use and to learn and, you know again, like to your point, you know. When you’re a chef, you probably are going to be using one of those at some point in time. So, I was like “I really want to buy one.” I’m like “It’s on my heart. I want to do this.” So, I donated the mixer a while ago. And then I’m like, “Gosh. Okay, it’s January. I need to start figuring out when I’m going to get in and bake cookies with the kids because I really want to do it.” And so, we set up a date. It was right after the darn 78 flooding happened. SV: Oh, yeah. RJ: And CalTrans. And it was that day. It was that day at 4 o’clock. I was supposed to go over there and bake cookies with them. And then I had to cancel because Caltrans had to have this emergency meeting. And I was like on Zoom, and I was like “Oh, darn it.” I’m like “Oh, duty calls.” I’m like “Can we reschedule another day?” So, we rescheduled another day. I get there and the kids are so excited to meet the mayor first of all. And this is, by the way, intentionally in one of our lower income areas of the city. It’s over on Autumn Drive. And they’re like “Do you think I could be a mayor?” And I just got to hang out and talk to them and I’m like—and teach them how to make, you know, how to crack the eggs. They were doing so good. And, you know, so there was about—I think there was like 12 or 14 of them. I’m like “I want to go back and do that like so all the kids that go to that branch have that moment of time with me.” Because I appreciated it as much as they did. And so, for me, the moments like that or when I get to go and talk to, you know, kids that are at the Boys and Girls Club service groups like Girls Scouts, Boys Scouts. All of the kids groups, honestly, those are the best days that I always have. I mean, really, the kids are excited. I’m really excited to hear what they have to say. But I also am getting a different—and back to, you know, my point of going out and door knocking and meeting people and hearing what they have to say about the city. I’m hearing it from kids and they’re going to be 100% honest. SV: Yeah. RJ: They’re not going to sugarcoat it. SV: (laughs) That’s true. RJ: They’re not going to try to fluff me up. They’re not going to try to get something out of me. They are going to tell me exactly what they think about their community. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And you know what? I appreciate that. So, for me, it’s always about the moments with the kids when I get to go out and do things like that. It actually fills me so much more than any other moments because, again you know, you do have to put a lot into it. You know, when you’re out there on—and when I say “on” (air quotes with her fingers) you know, you’re talking to people. And I don’t want people to feel like they can’t approach me. So, I’m very approachable. And that is one of the things that I really do pride myself on. I don’t want anyone to feel like I ever don’t approach—you know, they can’t approach me. And so, one of our community members sent me this message recently and he said to me, “You know,” —his daughter was in the kids mentor, the girls mentor group—and he said “You know,” he goes “it was so cute. My daughter, we were talking about something.” And she’s also a Girl Scout. And he said “Yeah. She says ‘Well, I know the mayor.’” (both laugh) And he’s like “and she was saying this, you know, to my wife and, you know, to—we had friends over and she goes ‘yeah, I know the mayor.’” And he goes “It was the coolest thing because she really felt like she connected with me.” And I’m like “She did connect with me.” and I love that. I love that our kids in the community can feel like they connected with me because I feel like they will never probably forget that. And I oftentimes when I’m places—I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. I was getting some food to go from San Marcos Market. There was a mom and the daughter and I were just kind of talking. And I went out to my car, and I got her one of our city pens and then I said to her, and I say this very often—so, you know, our city emblem is a wayfinding sign, a compass—and I said to her, I said, “Do you know what this is?” I took it back to her. I said, “Do you know what this is?” And she goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, you’ll probably see it on all of our San Marcos signs. It’s a wayfinding sign, so it’s a compass.” And I said, “What it stands for is to discover life’s possibilities. And it’s going to be different for you than it is for me and for your little friends. Every single one of you has something that is your path to success.” And it’s not all—Everyone’s not going to go to a four-year college. I actually didn’t go to a four-year college. But everyone’s going to have a path to success. And I want everyone to know that they’ve got something inside of them that is what their path is and, you know, it might not be traditional. It might be traditional, but it might not. And I want everyone to know that there is their best self. There is a place that is a best self for every single person. And, again, it’s going to be very different for everyone. And, you know, my kids, my daughter just graduated from USD. My son went to Palomar. Totally different kids. Totally different people. But it doesn’t mean that one is going to be more successful than the other. And I want people to know that and believe that in themselves. I didn’t have parents that, you know, tried to make me feel like I could be successful in whatever I did. I honestly believe that my parents just wanted me to get married and have babies. And that was all they really hoped for me. And here I am. I’m the mayor of one of the best cities in the county. And I am so grateful for every moment that I get to spend in the community and encouraging people and spending my time letting them know that we believe in them. We care about them. That’s what my job is in a nutshell. And I know it is kind of back to a different point of what we were talking about. But the truth is every moment that you’re inspiring kids in the community is a win for me. SV: Yeah. RJ: So, those days are the best. And, you know, really I try to—I always carry my pens in the car. I’m like “Wait! Just wait!” I try to throw them, honestly, in my purse sometimes or in my pocket or whatever. I don’t always remember. But I think those moments when you just say that one thing, that could change the trajectory of someone’s life. And I know I remember my fourth-grade teacher, Mrs. Long. Here I am, you know, 56 years old almost. And I remember fourth grade, what she said to me. She said, “You can do bigger things than you think you can.” And I just know that that’s why I am the right person, right now, to do what I’m doing. SV: Yeah. RJ: And I’m so grateful for it. And I really have a hard time believing that I actually am doing this, but I love it. Most days I absolutely love it, SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And there are times when you’re tired and you go “I don’t want to get up today.” But then, you know, you have those days where you really just go “Okay. This is going to fill me in. Now, I can get through another week or whatever.” SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I think that’s a great sentiment to end our interview on. I did want to ask you just one more question and that is if there’s anything that I should have asked you that I did not. RJ: No, because honestly, you know how I—I think you realize what my style is. (both laugh) if you don’t bring it up and I want to say it, I’ll just bring it in there. So, no, I don’t think so. SV: Okay. RJ: Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s funny. At KUSI, they’re like “Oh, well, we’ll just ask you one question. You just know what to do.” (both laugh) “You know what, you can just get everything you want to say in.” I’m like “Oh, okay. Thanks!” And, you know, by the way, when I was first elected as mayor, I was like “I can’t go on TV! I’m scared to death! I’m going to be sweating. I’m going to be stressed. I’m going to say wrong things.” Like now, I’m like, I laugh about it. You know, what I said. I’m like “Aw, geez. Two thousand twenty-five. What am I saying?” (raises her hands and chuckles) You know, but I used to be really hard on myself. But you know what? I don’t think people really want perfection. They want truth and honesty and authentic. SV: Yeah. RJ: And, you know, I try to be those things. I try to be, you know—I don’t even honestly think about it. I just try not to be guarded when I am—And, you know, if I show up to something, I don’t want to be the person that is like “Cheese!” (motions as if smiling widely for a camera) take a picture and then leave. Like, I’m there to do whatever you need me to do. Like if I need to take out trash, get icky stuff on my hands, I’m going to do it. Like, I want to be fully engaged when I show up to things. And I don’t think every politician is like that. I honestly wish there were more people, not exactly my style, but really having the reason as the reason, as the real reason, you know what I mean? Not like “Oh, I’m looking for my next thing, my next higher office.” (makes air quotes with hands) You know, I am planning on running for county supervisor next. But if I’m not elected, I’m totally fine. I’ve done good. I really do believe that. I really do believe I’ve done good. SV: Yeah. When are you running for county supervisor? RJ: In 2026, when this term is over. SV: Okay. RJ: So, not to worry. I’m not going to skip like in the middle of my term. So, Jim Desmond will be termed out and I’m running for that seat. And, you know, it’s a bigger job but, you know, the good thing is I will get paid for the hours that I work. SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: And then I have staff. So, I think I can work on the same level, you know, put in the same amount but have more fruit because I have people working for me and I’m actually getting paid for it. So— SV: Yeah. RJ: You know, because we make less than $12,000 a year. I don’t know if you know that. SV: I didn’t know. RJ: Yeah. Yeah. I’m the best value in the county. (both laugh) Everyone’s like—Well, actually a bunch of my friends are like “You’re the hardest working mayor in the whole county!” And I go “Well, you know, yeah.” But, again, I’m not one of those people that shows up and like takes a picture and leaves. That’s just not my thing. SV: Yeah. RJ: I don’t do that. Anyway. Anything else? SV: No. Thank you so much for your time. RJ: Do you feel like you know me now? SV: I do! RJ: Okay, good. SV: I appreciate you spending some time— RJ: Yeah. SV: —talking with us today. And I think this is going to be really valuable to our students and researchers in the future. So, thank you. RJ: Well, again, you know our city has come such a long way. And we really do have a lot to be proud of. And I really do believe that people that live here and I hear it time and time again, showing up at their house and they’re like “I love it here.” SV: Mm-hmm. RJ: “I love this city. I really wouldn’t live anywhere else.” And, you know, even when they’re upset about things, they still don’t want to leave. They still are very happy. They’re like “But, it’s better than—” You know, blah, blah, blah. Or where else. So, I think, you know, we’ve built a great place. My first house was over behind Fire Station No. 2. (points in front and to the left with her left hand) And now I live over off of La Marie. (points behind her right shoulder with her right hand) So, I’ve had three houses over here. So, I’ve owned four houses in the city. SV: Nice. RJ: I’m definitely not leaving. SV: Yeah. RJ: I love it here. SV: Well, thank you, again. I appreciate everything. RJ: Of course, yeah. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
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Title
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Jones, Rebecca. Interview April 12, 2023.
Description
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Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos.
Identifier
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SC027-034
Subject
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COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy
Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
San Diego Association of Governments
Women in politics
Date
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2023-04-12
Format
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video
Creator
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Rebecca Jones
Contributor
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Sean Visintainer
Coverage
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San Diego County (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Rebecca Jones
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/077ed05bf3a5fde17082d0253ae4443f.pdf
43177e3c473df256fea7700642f6432e
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Text
REBECCA JONES
TRANSCRIPT, INTERVIEW
2023-04-23
Sean Visintainer: Okay. This is Sean Visintainer and I’m here today with Mayor Rebecca Jones
of San Marcos, California, doing an oral history interview for the Oral History Special
Collections Project at Cal State San Marcos. Today is April 12th. We’re doing the interview in
the University library. Mayor Jones, thank you so much for joining us today.
Mayor Rebecca Jones: Oh, it’s my pleasure.
SV: I wanted to start off just by asking you some questions about local government. And I think
that it’s something that maybe is a little, at times, opaque to people. And so, I was just curious
because local government can look really different depending upon the municipality. For people
that are going to watch this video, researchers in the future, could you describe a little bit about
how local government in San Marcos happens?
RJ: Well, it used to be the great mystery. So, when I actually got involved with the city, I had no
idea how local government worked. So, I tried to remember and put myself from that perspective
as being just a resident and making things easier. And so, what we do, essentially, is we spend
taxpayer money—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —that is from different sources. Most of it is from sales tax. That’s actually where we have
our largest amount of money to spend for the residents. But then we also have property tax. And
most people don’t know this but out of all of the counties in the city, I believe we are the lowest
city that has the smallest share of property tax. So, out of every dollar we get 7.2¢. So, if you
look at just that in itself, it really is very important for us to figure out other ways to actually
generate revenue. So, we are a charter city. And a charter city allows us to actually have property
that we own which is owned by the residents of the city of San Marcos. And all of that revenue
that we actually have coming in—so Creekside Marketplace would be an example of that as well
as City Hall—but all of that money actually helps augment the very low sales tax that we have.
SV: Okay. So, I assume then you have to be very fiscally responsible.
RJ: Very fiscally responsible. And so, anyway, our job as a local government is to spend your
money wisely; keep you safe which is, honestly, our number one concern in my opinion—it
always has been—and then also making sure we have a good quality of life for people. And so,
you know, during my time on the council, I always again, you know, try to remember as a
resident what is important to our residents. And I actually—this is kind of crazy but when I am
campaigning which, you know, I’ve won five elections now—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —when I’m out campaigning, I actually enjoy the part of knocking on a stranger’s door and
knowing that I’m going to get some feedback that I might not ever get otherwise. And so, I think
it’s really important for me to always remember that part of local government, who you’re
serving, which is the residents of the city, but also keeping everyone safe whether you own a
business, whether you live here, or whether you’re visiting here. We want to make sure that we
have that as our highest priority and, you know, people can drive safely through our community,
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come and shop here. If they’re already passing through San Marcos, which a lot of people do, we
want them to, you know, spend a little more money and enjoy themselves. So, just keeping all of
that in perspective is always at the front of what I’m always thinking and part of what my
leadership is and, you know, just having again a good quality of life where people love to visit,
live here, and, you know, a good place to call home.
SV: Mm-hmm. Can you speak a little bit to how the process of government works, the City
Council, the other people that are involved, the Deputy Mayor, yourself?
RJ: Yeah. So, essentially, there is a City Council Manager style government. So, you might hear
about like a strong Mayor. It’s not that. There’s only one city in the entire county that has that
and that’s the city of San Diego. But a Council Manager form of government, local government,
means that there are five council people. We pretty much have the same authority. However, I
can put anything on the agenda which I have done in the past. But also, you know, I work very
closely with the City Manager. I don’t really have any extra authority.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: There’s a few little things but nothing major. And so, there are five of us that really have to
look out for the best of what’s going on in the community. And we actually started districts back
in 2018 and that actually changed things a bit, because that was the first time where we had
councilmembers that were working specifically and being elected specifically in one area of the
city. So, we have four districts and I’m at-large, so I’m elected by the entire city. And so, each
one of us, you know, we have things that are important to us. We bring them forward. And then
we try to get a consensus on them. My job is to make sure we’re all getting along—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —making sure that everyone’s voice is heard, and then also making sure that, you know, we
always are remembering, even if you’re not representing technically District 1, for instance, that
really District 2, 3, and 4 also matter. And, you know, we only have a certain amount of money,
and we really need to make sure that we’re, you know, spending money where the greatest need
is but also not just focusing on one part of the city.
SV: Yeah. You spoke about consensus building, and I think that’s really interesting since it
seems like a lot of decision making has to be shared decision making in San Marcos. How do
you go about building consensus?
RJ: Well, the biggest, most important thing, in my opinion, is not being political.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, once you bring political parties into it, you really just spoil everything, to be
honest. And so, my job has always been as I’ve seen it is to be apolitical, for the most part.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then also making sure that we are, you know, again spending money wisely and, you
know, really addressing all of the needs and the wishes in the community. And making sure that
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everyone feels that they’re part of the city is also good, you know. It’s doing well. It’s safe. It’s
very important for everyone, like I said, to be safe. I think that has always been super important
but even more now than ever because there are a lot of people that don’t feel safe. You know,
our world has changed. Laws are not the same that they used to be. And so, it’s really important
to make sure that, again, your funding, your fire department, and then also your sheriff
deputies—we are a contract city, which let me speak to that for just one moment.
SV: Sure.
RJ: I’ve had a lot of people during, you know, the downturn in the economy and, you know,
during a lot of political things that have happened, saying to me, “Should we have our own
police force?” Well, we actually still are one of the cities that has the lowest crime rate in the
entire county. And so, that’s an important thing. Are we—what is the need? What is the
problem? And so, you know, starting our own department would be very expensive, probably
$3-4 million dollars. And, if it’s not broken, why fix it?
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, we actually are very lucky that we have some great captains that have come in.
We have them for about two or three years, max. But they always end up being the cream of the
crop. They end up moving on and actually being maybe an under-Sheriff or, you know, an
assistant Sheriff. And so, you know, we really have had some great, you know, leaders in our
Sheriff department. But a lot of people like to come back to our city. They might come here as a
young Deputy, move on, and then they like to come back because it is a good place. We do have
an excellent relationship with them, with the City Council and the Sheriff Department. And so, I
think that really is very telling that, again, back to “if it’s not broken, why try to fix it when
you’re doing very well.” And that’s, you know, one of the things that I think you do need to
always keep in mind is, when things are going well, pay attention to what actually is working.
You don’t have to change everything just for the sake of changing it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But you also don’t need to have things that you look at and say, “Well, we’ve been doing it
that way twenty years, the same way, and it doesn’t work.” That’s when you need to pay
attention. So, anyway, I’m very happy with our sheriff deputies and then also our fire department
too, because they really do bring a sense of wellbeing to our community.
SV: Yeah. We had to call the fire department—
RJ: Oh no!
SV: —not too long ago. They responded very promptly. They—
RJ: Good.
SV: —were wonderful.
RJ: Okay! Well, that’s good to know.
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SV: So, we were very happy with how they did.
RJ: Yeah. Good.
SV: So, you talked about identifying change and maybe not needing change for the purpose of
making change.
RJ: Right. Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell.
SV: I’m a little bit—I was curious how you identify need. So, it’s important to see what doesn’t
need to be changed. But how do you go about recognizing where there is a need?
RJ: Well, a lot of it has to do with feedback, to be honest. I mean, really, if you see something
that maybe isn’t going as well as you had hoped, I mean a lot of it has to do with how people are
feeling in the community. Do they feel like their voices are being heard? And their voice is being
heard doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting everything that they want.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Sometimes, you have to say no. And, you know, that’s the big picture. We have nearly
100,000 people and we have—you know, that live here full-time, and we’ve got about 40,000
students that are coming in, that go to CSU, to Palomar College and all of our other higher
learning institutions. It’s a lot of people. That’s really about 140,000 people that are, you know,
coming into our city every day, whether they live here full-time or not. You know, you have to
figure out how you serve them. So, again, you know, are you providing opportunities for them to
actually enjoy themselves, have recreation. You know, we are actually known for our parks,
which I think is really important at keeping people out and active. And, you know, during the
pandemic for instance, many of the cities were closing their trails and their parks. We followed
the health orders, but we kept our trails open, and we kept our parks, for the most part, open. We
did close our climbing structures and that sort of thing. But we always felt that it was very
important to keep people out and active and having those opportunities because mental wellbeing is important in a community. But then, also having opportunities for people to open
businesses. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about for years—and this year
it is our first time; we’re actually calling it one of our goals— and that’s concierge service, that is
the customer experience because the customers are the community. And then, also, the business
owners, when they come into City Hall, do they feel welcomed? Do they feel like it’s easy for
them? They get the support that they need to open a business. Or, if they’re making changes to
their property or something like that, are we doing everything we can? And, again, do they have
that concierge experience? And so, we’re doing a lot of different things. We actually are just
launching something in the next couple of weeks that will help people understand more about
conditional use permits and opening businesses and finding out where their dream can come true
of opening a business in the city and where it’s actually available to already open pretty easily, or
where it might take a little more work on their end. And so, you know, we just are trying to
always make that experience a little bit better. And, you know, I’m really proud of all the work
that we’ve done since I’ve been on the council. This is my 17th year on the city council. And so,
it’s been a long time.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I remember when I first joined the council, I was the only woman at the
time. And I remember saying “Well, you know it would be great if we had good customer
service.” And at the time, that did not go over very well (Sean chuckles). There was this “Well,
what is that all about?” And, you know, now if you look forward, you know, to where we are
today and how important that is to us, we’ve changed a lot. And so, you know, again, changing
things that you identify as having issues and it’s not just what I think. A lot of it really does have
to do with getting feedback from our community.
SV: Mm-hmm. How do you solicit feedback?
RJ: Well, I try to make as many—myself—as available as possible. And, you know, we talked
about this a little bit earlier about, you know, being available. This is a full-time job.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: It could happen in a grocery store. It could be happening at the park. Wherever I am, I know
that it is important for me to be available.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, Chamber of Commerce events. Really anywhere is a way. I have a very opendoor policy, emails, social media, even though I don’t love social media. It does offer a way for
people to connect with me. And so, I think, again, that is really important. You know, and then
my cell phone. I have it on my cards. I give it to everyone. I have a lot of people that just reach
out to me and say, “You know what? I met you at this event. You gave me your card because I
asked for it. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing this with you. But here’s what I’m
thinking.” And I think that is, in itself, being a mayor of the people. Being available is so
important. And, again, you know back to the point that I made a little earlier as well, and that is
being as apolitical as possible. I really do believe that that’s the best way that you can serve your
community. Not making anyone feel left out and bringing everyone together and being that
consensus builder is really important. So, I work very wholeheartedly and very diligently at
doing that.
SV: Yeah. So, you’re pretty much always on duty.
RJ: I am.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I am which, you know, makes it difficult. It is a hard job—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —to do, you know, pretty much all day every day. But, you know, I have to say I look
around the city and I do have to pinch myself sometimes, thinking “You know, I was a part of
that.” And “Oh, I was a part of that.” I mean, I really am proud of what our community has
become.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, and we really have grown significantly. We are a college town. And then, you
know, we’ve really done a good job, I think, at juggling following state mandates, making sure,
again you know, our community is a good place to call home, also to do business in. You know,
it really encompasses a lot of different things. But I’ve been very intentional about, you know,
making the things that are important to our residents important to me as well.
SV: Mm-hmm. Could you talk a little bit about how the city government functions within the
larger context of, I guess, the county?
RJ: Oh yeah.
SV: You know, how the different municipalities interact and then how the county government as
well, functions with the city.
RJ: So, all mental health is handled through the county. That’s probably the biggest difference of
the county and then cities. So, there are 18 cities plus the county. And then what we have is
several different, you know, regional groups that we are, you know, part of. So, one being
SANDAG (San Diego Association of Governments) which is mainly transportation. And then
you’ve got also North County Transit which is for North County. And it’s our transit operator.
And so, and then there’s like the water—we don’t actually have our own water department. So,
Vallecitos Water District handles that. We are a little different than some cities. Like the city of
Carlsbad, they also serve the water as well. But we don’t do that. You know, just really the
biggest thing is when we’re on a board together, you have to wear a regional hat.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You have to figure out—because we don’t work independently as silos. We do work
together. You know, when you look at transportation in itself, you know a lot of people drive
cars, about 97% of the county, about only 2-3% honestly actually use transit. It’s not a system
that actually runs often enough for it to be, you know, serving most people for their lives. Plus, a
lot of people have lifestyles that really it doesn’t fit within their lifestyles. But then there are a lot
of people—well, not a lot, but the people that do use public transit, they really do rely on it. So,
we need to figure out how to serve everyone. And so, you know, is there a possibility of having a
transit system that actually can attract more riders? I believe so.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But it also relies on people making that shift. We need to make sure it’s safe. There is a lot of
people that believe that only people that are homeless ride on public transit. That’s not the case.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Though there are some. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t. There definitely are. But
how do we make it more meaningful and easier for people to use it? So, we do need a balanced
transportation system like I said. And that’s not punishing car drivers and trying to force them
out of their cars. It’s not going to happen. Many people, especially people I think with kids,
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really rely on that, you know, getting their kids where they need to go. And I, you know, my
kids—I have, well, I’ll just give you an example. I had a soccer player and she played
competitive soccer, my daughter. And then my son was a surfer. And so, two very, very
different, you know, life sorts of things that they like to do.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, for me, I was always driving. I was always driving, you know, a big SUV because
usually I was like “Hey, you know what? I’ll pick up your kids too.” So, you know, for practices
and all of that for my daughter, I did a lot of carpooling. With my son, not so much because he
wanted to go, you know, when he wanted to go. So, you know, I’d go and try to run errands
while he was at the beach. And then I’d go back and pick him up. So, you know, a lot of
different lifestyles have different needs. And, you know, so that’s one of the things that I always
try to mention when I’m on that SANDAG committee. I’m on the Board of Directors as Mayor.
And I try to say, “Remember. Let’s not forget about, you know, the parents. Let’s not forget
about our retirees. We really do need a transportation program that fits everyone’s needs.” And it
is tricky. But I think it can be done. But our new regional plan, I think that it really does punish
car drivers in a lot of ways. And we really need to bring more transit, in my opinion, up to North
County. And what I’ve been talking about for quite some time, and it actually will be rolling out
pretty soon, is having micro-transit within cities because that is a way for you to actually get
where you need to go within the city. It’s not going to take you to work or anything like that.
But, you know, on your short trips, you know, getting for instance our kids to school because the
school district has very little busing. They are starting to bring some of it back.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But that really is only for the elementary kids. So, you know, the older kids, the middleschoolers, the high schoolers, how do you get them to school in a meaningful way? And I think
micro-transit is a way to do that. But it’s also a way for people like if you want to go out and
have dinner, have that glass of wine. You don’t have to drink and drive! You don’t have to call
an Uber. If you’ve got a system that actually is on demand, it will meet those needs. And I think
it would serve our community better. So, I think having more conversations about, you know,
different aspects of a transportation plan that fits really the needs of the community like microtransit and then also autonomous vehicles. They are the future more than I think fixed rail or
fixed routes on buses. I think it really does lend better to peoples’ lifestyles. So, you know,
keeping that in mind, that’s what we do at SANDAG. But then also at North County Transit. It’s
all about the same things that I just mentioned about transit. But, you know, working with other
cities it happens a lot. We also have something on the 78 corridor that is something that not the
rest of the nation has. I think it’s one of a kind. And it is that cities work together. And so,
Innovate 78 (multi-city partnership supporting business ecosystem along the Highway 78
corridor) started. And it was really about attracting business to the region. I call us the “upside”
of San Diego because we’re North County.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: We’re very close to Riverside and to Orange County. And, you know, we really have a
different bit of lifestyle. A lot of people that really enjoy the urban living don’t really enjoy it as
much in North County. But we also, you know, we have a lot of space for jobs and, you know,
we also have a lot of homes. And so, a lot of people, you know, North County is a little more
affordable. As you get east of the 5, it, you know, gets a little more affordable. East of the 15 is a
little more affordable. But, you know, also trying to figure out how to balance, again, the
transportation, getting people to work, and all of that is a consideration. But, you know, when
you have large cities like Carlsbad where they have a lot of jobs, where are those people going to
live? Well, a lot of them do live in San Marcos, for instance, or Vista.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, you know, Innovate 78 was all about trying to figure out how to attract businesses. If
the city of Vista has a business or the city of San Marcos has a business within our city, we can’t
find the proper amount of land for them because they want to grow. We work together and our
Economic Development Directors work together to figure out where can we move them to stay
in North County, so they don’t have to disrupt their workforce, so they don’t have to disrupt their
lifestyles. How can we work together to make that happen? And it has been very successful. I’m
very proud of the work that we’ve done. And, you know, it has been recognized that we have
done some really good work together.
SV: Yeah. So, is Innovate 78 like a—is it a formalized structure? Do you have meetings that
happen on a regular basis? Or is it more of a—I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to ask you
here.
RJ: I know what you’re trying to—So, we don’t have—Okay. So, there are quarterly meetings
where it’s the mayors, generally, but not always, and council members. So, they kind of cycle in.
And then they’re hosted in all the different cities. That’s a quarterly thing. But our Economic
Development Directors and staff work actually—they do have monthly meetings. So, they do
work together on a very, very regular basis. And, you know, that, again—You know, we’re
policy makers.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, it’s not imperative that we are there all the time, you know, at a monthly meeting or
something like that. It is when it comes to transportation like SANDAG but not with Innovate
78. And again, you know, there’s a lot of work that has gotten done where, you know, businesses
rather than them, you know, locate elsewhere like another county or something like that or, you
know, maybe in South County, we’ve been able to keep and retain them here in North County
which is a good thing.
SV: Yeah. That is a good thing.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: You talked about micro-transit. I just wanted to clarify what that is in case it becomes
available.
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RJ: Oh, micro-transit is like a small shuttle sort of bus.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Not a big full-sized bus but more of a smaller bus. And it would be—and what North County
transit is going to be—Have you ever seen the Carlsbad Connector?
SV: I haven’t.
RJ: Okay. Well, it’s kind of a, it’s a smaller bus and it would be on demand. That will be rolling
out in San Marcos.
SV: Okay.
RJ: Through North County Transit.
SV: Okay. When will that roll out?
RJ: Actually, sometime probably fall or early next year.
SV: Very cool!
RJ: Yeah.
SV: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey into politics.
RJ: Oh my gosh! Yes. Everyone says, “What made you—
SV: Yeah!
RJ: “—want to be in politics?” Well, I could tell you this much. I never did. (laughs) It’s one of
those things that I just kind of fell into. And so, what ended up happening is I was a young mom,
and really, I didn’t even know how local government worked. I didn’t know what city
government handled. I didn’t know anything about anything. And there was a public notice in
the park next to my home. And, you know, I had a baby at home and a four-year-old. And I was
like “What’s going on? What is happening?” you know. And some of my neighbors were saying
“Oh, we don’t want this in our park.” And I said, “Well, what’s even going on?” And then, as I
started delving into it and I got more information and I actually figured out what was going on, I
went “Yeah. I don’t like that for the park either. I’m not in love with that.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, it really was being involved. I sat down with all of the council members at the time
and I had two council members, a Republican and a Democrat, say to me, “Rebecca, you should
get involved in politics.” And I said, “I have you. Why would I do that?” And they said, “Well,
we’re definitely not going to be doing it forever.” I think both of them were probably right
around 20-25 or 24 years, you know, being involved in the city. And I was like “Why? Why
won’t you do this forever?” And they said, “Well, you know, it’s a big job. However, when you
really want to help shape the community, it’s a good thing.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: And so, I had both of them, you know, talk me into it. First they kind of “voluntold” me. And
I actually first joined the San Marcos Creek District Task Force, originally. And I thought that
was really interesting because I learned a lot about land use, a lot about, you know, just creating
spaces where people could come and, you know, congregate, and really making a community a
place where people can, you know, meet up with their friends and, you know, have those
restaurants and those spaces that are, you know, beautiful and, you know, signature to the
community, very unique. And I really liked that. And so, I was like “Okay. Well, I do like this.”
And I have to tell you, my background is that I was a new home sales agent when I was in my
early twenties.
SV Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then, my ex and I started a furniture marketing company which became very successful.
We had customers. We started out with zero sales. We actually built that into a $100 million
dollars a year in sales with Walmart, Costco, BestBuy as some of our customers. So, it was a
pretty lucrative business.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But, you know, it was really hard. And I remember when he came home one day from work,
he said, “You know, we’re going to start our own business.” And I went “We??” And, you know,
at that time we only had one child and he was one. And he said, “Yes. You’re going to do all of
the business part of it. And I’m just going to do the sales.” And I went “Oh. Okay.” And I go
“You know, I don’t know how to work a computer.” And he said, “Nah, that’s okay. You’re
smart. You could figure it out.” And that’s, you know, that’s really how it started. And so, I’ve
always been kind of a, you know, very I would say involved person. If someone, you know,
gives me a challenge or a task, I will go all in, and I’ll make sure I’ll do a good job. I’m very
conscientious. And so, that really is how it started. Started out, you know, had that background
of business in my, you know, my marriage and owning it. And then, I just went “Well, you know
what? It’s time for me to give back. It’s time for me to be part of the solution rather than, you
know, trying to stop things that are happening, you know as far as development goes.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, there were a couple of other things. The second Walmart, I didn’t agree with that. I
didn’t think the placement was correct. And then there was the Robertson’s Ready-Mix batch
plant over on Barham. And I said “Yeah. This is negative. I’d rather be positive.” I don’t like
negativity, as you could probably tell. I’m a very positive person.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And you know what? I just knew that it was probably the right thing to do. And so, I ended
up actually applying for an appointment because my ex had gotten sick in 2006. So, I wasn’t able
to run a campaign that year. And I applied for the appointment in 2007. I was selected. And then
I have run five campaigns since then and been elected five times. So, I must be doing something
right.
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SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Always been the top vote getter, even if it was for two seats and, you know, I would say that
no one outworks me. No one immerses themselves more into trying to be involved and prepared.
And so, I think that sets me apart because I really am not a politician. I’m just a person that loves
the community and wants to give back and has found a way that I can do that.
SV: And you said that you applied for the appointment for city council, if I’m understanding
correctly.
RJ: Correct.
SV: So, what is that process like?
RJ: Boy, was that fun. I’m just kidding. (both laugh) So, you filled out an application and then
you talked about your experience and what you wanted to bring to the table. And at that time, it
was an interesting time. So, Jim Desmond had just been elected as mayor. And, you know, it
was—there were four men on the council. Pia Harris-Sebert was our first woman ever elected to
the city council. And she was the first woman, but she was really the only woman for quite a
while. We did have Betty Evans that, I think, served one or two terms in between. But she wasn’t
on there. And so, it was really—there were four men left on the city council. And, you know, Jim
Desmond was talking about diversity back then. And, you know, he said, you know, I like what
Rebecca brings to the table, the business background, which is really important. And I think
everyone should have at least some sort of background as far as how you spend money.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, it’s—you don’t have a ton of money to spend and, you know, really being able to
figure out how to best spend that. You know, when you’re a business owner and especially when
you’re starting out a business, you are pretty much trying to figure out how you’re not going to
starve. And so, that really does bring an interesting perspective, I think, to the table. Anyway,
and so, I was selected. There were 27 applicants. I got up to the podium and one of the council
members actually had a lot of disagreements with me. He was supportive of the second Walmart.
And, you know, he brought that up. He said “Well, you know, Walmart, they’re one of your
customers. They must be very forgiving because you didn’t agree with the second Walmart.”
And I said, “Well, you know, it doesn’t mean that I’m against Walmart. It just meant that I didn’t
think the location was okay.” And those two things—you can still feel both things and believe in
both things. It doesn’t mean that you don’t like Walmart. I mean, there are a lot of people in my
community that love Walmart.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, whether I’m a Walmart shopper or not, a lot of people want to shop there.
And so, you know, I think it’s really important that you have a good mix of businesses. And, you
know, I think I brought that to the table. But I also, you know, brought forward the part of—I
really cared about, you know, being able to represent everyone. And I think I’ve been—It has
been a very valuable voice at that table.
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SV: Mm-hmm. So, there’s not an election process for city council? Or there wasn’t at that time?
RJ: Not for an appointment. No, not for an appointment.
SV: Oh, because Desmond—
RJ: Because I’m in an appointment.
SV: Okay. Gotcha.
RJ: Yeah. So, right now, there is a supervisor seat that is going to be vacated. So, there would be
an opportunity for either an appointment or a special election. At that time, a special election was
gauged to be around $300,000.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: It’s very expensive. If you can come up with an agreement on an appointment, it makes
sense, if you can come to an agreement. But it doesn’t always happen.
SV: Yeah. So—
RJ: And, you know, a lot of people have been appointed and have not been able to get elected.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I think there were people that actually spoke against my appointment that
when they saw what I did in my first two years, before I had my first election, they went “Wow.
Okay.” And they’ve been some of my biggest supporters, to be honest.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, that does actually feel good because people do recognize how hard I work. It
does feel good to have that recognized.
SV: Yeah. So, then you ran for reelection then around 2009 or so?
RJ: 2008—
SV: 2008.
RJ: —then ’12, and then ’16. I was elected as a woman’s—or as a first woman mayor in our
city—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —to ever serve as mayor in 2018. And then, I was reelected last year, in 2022.
SV: So, what does an election look like from your perspective when you’ve decided—let’s take
your first time that you’re going after your appointment when you’re going to be reelected or
elected to the city council?
RJ: Oh, boy. It’s a lot of fun. So, first of all, you know, you need to raise money. So, do people
believe in you? Because they’re not going to definitely, you know, donate to your campaign if
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they don’t believe in you. So, the good thing is I did have a record and I was able to point back to
that. But not only was I able to point back to that, I was able to point back to the success in my
business, how hard I’d worked, and all of those things. And, you know, it’s really important, I
think, that you do connect to the community because at the end of the day you can raise all the
money in the world but if you don’t have the votes, it’s really irrelevant. And so, can you get—
And, you know, every single time—and I’ve run five elections—I’ve thought, “Oh my gosh. I’m
losing. I’m losing!” (throws her head back and laughs) I’ve had, you know, like—I remember
my first campaign. Oh my gosh. I showed up to this one woman’s house. This is really deflating.
And she says to me “Oh, I already voted. And I didn’t vote for you.” (Sean chuckles) And I went
“Oh. Okay.” (chuckles) And then I walked away, and I thought “Shoot! You know, why didn’t
she even give me a chance to tell her about myself.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, so it’s a very humbling experience. And, honestly, I would say equally
humbling is actually serving because really, you know, to have people believe in you and when
they say to you, “You know what? I love what you’re doing in our community” it really does
feel amazing because, again, you know back to your hard work but also, I do love the
community. And I do want it to be the best that it possibly can be. And so having that part
acknowledged is really important to me too. But, again, very humbling. And, you know, so every
single campaign I’m like “Okay. Well, if I just go by what people are saying at the doors, I’m
winning! Like I’m winning!” And then I’m like “That could not be how it is. They could just be
saying that to me.” And so, you know, it really is a hard thing. And not everyone can put
themselves out there. It’s nerve wracking. On that election night, you’re going “Okay. Waiting
for the first numbers to come up. What’s it going to be?” And, you know, I have to say my fifth
election, you know this last one, it was very ugly. It was very unfair because I was, you know—it
was a smear campaign, honestly, on my integrity and what I had done for all these years and
trying to paint me into a box. I don’t fit into a box. I’m going to be totally honest about that. I
don’t fit into a box. I’m not a politician, don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a civic leader
and someone that will read everything and make good decisions for the best of everyone. And,
you know, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That part is kind of hard in elected office.
But if you’re making most people happy and you’ve got a safe community, a thriving
community, at the end of the day that’s all you can really hope for and, you know, again making
most people happy but there are going to be some people that don’t like you. I’ve had people
actually comment about what I look like which is very insulting.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: What I look like has nothing to do with the kind of job that I do. And, you know, trying to
call me little nicknames and that sort of thing, I’m not a robot. I am a person so it does hurt a bit.
But, you know, at the end of the day I do remember, you know, some people aren’t going to like
me. That’s okay. I just know, at the end of the day really, if I go to bed and I know that I’ve done
a good job that day, I wake up the next day and it’s a new day and, you know, I can let things go
which it does take that in this job. You do have to let a lot of things go. You know, the personal
insults really don’t matter, I guess, at the end. But, you know, I’m not a robot so it does affect me
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a bit. And, you know, you do have to really remember just to stay true to yourself. And I really
am very proud that I have done that.
SV: Yeah. What is your process for self-care when you’re having a negative day or a stressful
time?
RJ: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I have to get to the gym. I mean, I’m just one of those people, if
I don’t get enough exercise I will literally overthink things. And so, for me, I’m really getting to
the gym. And my gym! Oh, gosh. So, during COVID(-19 Pandemic), closed down in San
Marcos. And I was like “Okay. I’m going to go to another one of them.” It was in Encinitas. But
I really am very specific because it’s not a super long workout and I can do it whenever, you
know, pretty much during, you know, business hours. But I like to be able to go and punch bags
(laughs) and kick bags. It’s a kickbox workout. So, I’m not like punching someone. I don’t want
to do that. But I do, you know—it’s a kickbox workout. So, now, I found another one. It’s in
Rancho Bernardo. So, it’s not in the city which can be kind of beneficial because, you know, I’m
not sweaty and looking like a mess. And then, you know, if I’m like I’m punching and I’m
having an especially frustrating day, I can do that. The other thing I really love to do is hike. I
admittedly have not hiked in a very long time. I actually, a few years ago, hiked in the Tetons.
So, I had to do a lot of training for that. So, I was out on the trails two and three times a week
which it’s actually better for me when I can find that time. The job is very, you know, —it does
entail a lot of time for me. So, it is tough for me to actually do that during the day. And, you
know, when we have rainy weather, that doesn’t help. Or weather that’s too hot, that doesn’t
help. So, you know, really trying to find the time to at least do that. And then I love to cook. So,
during the pandemic, I started cooking for a few elderly people. And so, I have some folks that I
cook for. And when I need a mental health moment, I just go in my kitchen and I just cook up a
storm and several meals and I mean soups and I just try lots of different, new recipes and find
things that I can tweak and make my own.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: But those are the things that I do. I do try to do that. I don’t get massages. I really need a
massage many times though. I don’t really take the time to do that. So, really, the biggest thing is
exercise and then getting that cooking in. You know, and then everyone benefits from it.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Because I’m actually not a bad cook, so— (chuckles)
SV: So, what’s your best dish?
RJ: Oh, gosh. Well, that has evolved. I don’t know. I’ve become quite the soup maker. But I do
have my tried and true. I’m really good at prime rib and au gratin potatoes. My kids are always
like “Mom” —and, you know, they’re older. They’re twenty. Actually my daughter will be 23 in
a few weeks, and my son just turned 27. You know, whenever they, you know, want a good
meal, they’re like “Mom. Could you make this? Or can you make that?” and then I made chicken
fingers for the first time ever. And they’re like “Mom. These are like the best I’ve ever had.” So,
anyway, I’m like “Well, I could teach you how to do it.” And so, you know, I’ve had them over a
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couple of times and, you know, teaching people to cook, honestly is—You know, there are a lot
of people that don’t cook in this world, and I think, you know, the less we eat processed food, the
better it is for us. And so, I like to, you know—I cook almost solely organic. I try not to eat
heavily processed food. I think it’s better for me. You know, I’m going to be 56 next year—Oh,
oh my gosh. Not next year. This year! Oh, gosh! In a few weeks. Oh, gosh, about a month. So,
yeah. I’ll be 56. You know, I think our bodies can actually be healthier and mentally better when
we’re, you know, putting the right food in them and then also getting exercise too. So, I try to
definitely do all that to take care of myself. I know that’s a long story but those are the things
that I do. (chuckles)
SV: Yeah. Well, thank you for answering. And I asked the food question because I used to be a
chef. So, I’m always interested to know about people’s experiences.
RJ: Oh, wow! Nice. Nice.
SV: And then exercise, I agree. I mean, it’s so important. I think to bring it back to our interview,
you know, something that I take advantage of is the bike lanes.
RJ: Oh, yeah.
SV: And I was curious as to what your—You know, you’ve talked about transit. You’ve talked
about micro-transit and, you know, what your priorities are in terms of pedestrian and twowheeled transit as well.
RJ: Yeah. Thanks for asking that. So, actually, at SANDAG, this is kind of interesting, I had
actually voted against spending $140, I think it was $140 million dollars on bike lanes. And I had
one of our residents send me a message. And he said, “You’re the worst mayor ever!” And I was
like “Oh. Wow.” And he said, “I can’t believe how you don’t like cyclists.” And I said, “Well,
that’s not exactly how that went.” And so, I explained, you know, that there’s no reason that bike
lanes should be costing $5 million dollars a mile.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: That’s way too expensive. There’s no way that should be happening on a road that is literally
already there. So, I said, you know, I had an issue with that. I have a real problem spending
money in a wasteful way. And, you know, so I said, “Hey, let’s meet.” I sat down with him. He’s
now a fan and definitely not, you know, against me any longer because he didn’t really know all
of the reasons that I felt the way that I felt. I think getting input from cyclists is really important.
You know, again, back to the point that we have 72 miles of, you know, trails. Those are often
times, you know, available for cyclists and, you know, pedestrians, hikers, even horses because
we still have horses in San Marcos.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, I am really proud about that. The one thing that, you know, I’ve done a lot of research on
the different types of bike lanes, and I’m not sold on the cycle tracks. A lot of times the very
serious cyclists are saying to me, “Rebecca, they’re very dangerous because you are confined in
a space.” They look safe. Maybe for kids they’re safe. But they’re very expensive, first of all.
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And they really are not super safe because if you hit that curb for whatever reason, you could be
thrown off of your bicycle and end up in the middle of a lane. That’s not very safe. Or there is a
lot of crashes if you’ve got like—you know, most cyclists are in packs. Hardly anyone goes by
themselves. I have a lot of friends that are very serious cyclists that, since this whole thing came
forward, I’ve actually just from my friend group—and I do have some serious cyclists now in it.
And they don’t really like those tracks. So, in my opinion, any time that we can have a sharrow,
which is the bike lane that is a full lane with cyclists in it and then a car only lane, I think that’s
probably a really good idea. Any time we can have a split because you’re not limited on space or
real estate and have, you know, a separate bike lane that’s by itself but without all of the little
candlesticks and the curbs and all that, I think that’s a good idea. It’s not always possible because
a lot of times you’re putting them in after the fact. I would like to see more education. I am
concerned that some people get really upset with cyclists. And some cyclists—I have to tell you.
I actually had a property down at the beach, a second property, with my ex and, you know, every
time I would go to back out of the driveway cyclists would come and they would like not pay
attention to me. And I would go “Well, they’re not the only one on the road.” And then I would
see them running stoplights and stop signs. And that actually upsets motorists. I hear people say
it all the time. And I go, “I get where you’re coming from. However…” You know, I try to
defend cyclists. But, you know, if we all ran by the same rules or all, you know, followed the
same rules, that would actually be optimum. You’re probably never going to see that, you know.
There are always people that are going to break rules. It’s just how it is. And they shouldn’t spoil
it for everyone. And so, you know, I have to say I am very, very careful around cyclists, and I
really wish everyone was because the truth is a cyclist is never going to win against your car.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It, you know—And, you know, as soon as, you know, you hear of, you know, a cyclist
getting hit by a car and they’re like “Oh, it’s obviously the car’s fault.” Sometimes it isn’t. I
mean, really sometimes it isn’t. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I do think we
need to, again, create the opportunities, education and, you know, let’s just get into eBikes for
one second. The kids should not be on the eBikes that are above their ability. It is a moving
vehicle. It is like being on a moped or a motorcycle. I am—oftentimes, I see the kids, you know,
going wayward and crazy on them. And you know what? It’s a recipe for disaster. And then, you
know what? There are accidents that happen. And, you know, it shouldn’t be all on the driver.
The cyclists, you know, including the eBikes really need to be responsible. I really would love to
see more education in that.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: I have brought that up numerous times. I think the school district really should take a lead in
this. I know our deputies at our Sheriff’s station do it as well. But, you know, a lot of kids are
riding them to school. And it’s very dangerous. Parents, pay attention! (laughs)
SV: Yep.
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RJ: They just think, “Oh, it’s just a bicycle.” It’s really not. And it really is very dangerous and,
you know, we can’t parent the kids. That’s not our job. The parents need to parent their kids and
they need to teach them how to be responsible with their bicycles, their eBikes especially.
SV: Yeah. eBikes are a new wrinkle to resolve, I think, in the whole transit conversation.
RJ: They are. And scary! It really is scary but, you know, very beneficial because they can take
you longer and, you know, longer distances quicker. And you don’t have to be in super good
shape to use them. But if you’re not responsible with them, they’re very, very dangerous.
SV: Yeah. They’re good for the hills around here too.
RJ: Yeah. For sure. I know. Someone said “Oh, yeah, just, you know, ride your bicycle around
town.” And I’m like “Yeah. That’s—” We’re very hilly in San Marcos.
SV: Yep. (both laugh) All right. So, we talked a little bit about your campaign, that first
campaign, in 2008. I guess I wanted to circle back a little bit to even before that, to the San
Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force that you served on from 2005-2007.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: And I was just curious as to what was the goal of the Task Force?
RJ: It was to come up with a plan of mixed use and utilizing that entire area which, by the way,
you know, we’ve been updating our general plan. We’ve put that on hold for now and we’re
going to have a greater emphasis on bringing the Creek District part into that because we do need
to update that plan. So, FEMA has updated the flood plain and all of those, you know, different
areas are going to be changed due to in a 100-year flood, what happens? You know, if we get the
torrential sort of rain that we had, you know, recently, another time or worse than that, oh my
gosh. It makes a big difference. We have—excuse me (hiccups) —we haven’t had a situation
where it’s flooded all the way from Escondido. But it could very well happen. And so, you
know, being prepared is important. You’re not going to build a bunch of buildings in the flood
way. It just isn’t going to happen. Currently, there is, you know, the Valley Christian School
that’s over there. It’s in the flood way. So, they can’t, you know, change their buildings or
anything like that. The reason I bring that up is that’s kind of like the edge of the Creek District
area and then it goes all the way over behind Grand, or right around Grand. And there’s actually
affordable housing that’s right in that area. So, what we did is we approved a plan for that. And
then we also started getting the permits from the agencies so we could build the infrastructure.
The infrastructure will be done this year. That’s a big first step in actually moving that forward.
But, then again, you know we still need to incorporate the part of the land use changes are going
to happen. We also have had people like Gary London come in and say “You’ve got too much
commercial to the residential. You’re going to need to make some tweaks.” So, it likely will not
build as dense as we had originally approved. So, we really do need to update it and bring in
those changes, you know, bringing in the flood plain. And then also the fact that the
infrastructure is actually done also changes things too.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: So, the emphasis will be on getting that updated as well as the general plan.
SV: Okay. So, the original goal then with the Task Force and into when you served on it then
was to create the plan that is now kind of being put into effect.
RJ: Yes, exactly.
SV: And did it account for a Creek District at that time? Because the Creek District is going to
be like a public/private partnership that will help with development.
RJ: Well, there was 62 property owners in there today.
SV: Okay.
RJ: You know, when we approved that, yeah. It was to bring an it, a place, a place where people
could come—
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: —congregate, as I had mentioned earlier, and really, you know, a space where it would be,
you know, open. And, you know, you could have, you know, different community events there
and that sort of thing. Also, North City is that way. North City we actually approved as a
university district back in 2009. We always thought the Creek would come first. Well, University
District has now really become. And again, you know, we don’t even have an actual downtown
in San Marcos.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, you know, creating a downtown, creating that space. It looks like North City is becoming
that. You know, we’ve got the Belgian Waffle Ride coming this weekend. It’s the largest cycling
event in the western United States. It’s a big deal. Thousands of cyclists are coming from all
over. They’re going to be eating in our city. They’re going to be staying here. We don’t have a
ton of hotels. There are going to be a couple of other ones in North City and then also in the
Creek District eventually. But really creating that downtown was one of the things that we really
wanted to do. But we always saw North City—a university district back then when we approved
it—and then the creek, because they connect.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Having that as a center core for the city.
SV: When do you think North City will be built out?
RJ: Oof. Well, that depends on so many different things. If I had a crystal ball, I could answer
that.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, they’ve been (sighs), they’ve been through a downturn in the economy. They’ve
been through a pandemic. You know, they’ve been through a lot. If you go there today, you
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know, they’ve got several restaurants. They’ve got the only, first of its kind, building with the
university which is the Extended Learning Building because there’s nothing like that in all of
California. And then you’ve got like Mesa Rim. You’ve got Draft Republic which was the old
Urge Gastropub. You have Newtopia Cyder, Fresh Café, Maya’s Cookies, Wynston’s Ice Cream,
Copa Vida, Buona Forcbetta, Umami, a lot of things happening there but, you know, not the
residences. You have a little bit of residence there. You’ve got the quad, which is university, you
know, kids that live there. And then you have Block C. And then you have the block that’s The
Wrap behind. And then also, you know, don’t forget too Pima Medical is right there. And then,
you know, you’ve got medical offices now, Scripps Health. And so, a lot of things are
happening. It really is on the edge of becoming something much bigger. They have broken
ground on and they’re moving forward with the first large-scale residential in there. And it’s
going to be about 12 stories high. And so that will really be a game changer, I think, for North
City. I think that will be what brings the really the grocery store and the other businesses that
they need that can actually handle those residents and offer the services that they need. And, you
know, that’s always what the Creek was envisioned. I mean these are things that I learned when
we were, you know, going on these field trips to old Pasadena and, you know, all these different
places that were mixed use because we didn’t really have much mixed use at that time in the city.
We have a little bit over off of Mission but it’s very, very small scale. You know, having the
meeting spaces, having the, you know, congregation spaces where you can have like an open-air
amphitheater, something like that, that’s all things that really we started with the planning of the
Creek District. Again, you know, we have to update that. But really—And it, you know, kind of
grew into also North City being part of that, being a large scale downtown core area for us.
SV: Yeah. There is a lot of construction going on right now.
RJ: Yes. There is.
SV: You have the infrastructure going on along the Creek District. You have it seems like three
or four different projects right around North City and in North City.
RJ: Yeah. So, you know, okay. So, back when I was selling new homes in my early twenties, I
was working at Discovery Creek, Discovery Trail, so Discovery Hills. And back then we had,
you know, this big map that showed everything that was going to happen in the, you know, the
adjoining property. Back then, Craven (Road) wasn’t even there. I mean this—just to date myself
of how long I’ve been around in San Marcos. First moved here in 1987. Just looking at, you
know, what it was going to be with Kaiser Hospital, Scripps Hospital which isn’t going to
happen now. But they are going to have medical offices, much like Carmel Mount Ranch.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: So, pretty large-scale medical offices. You know, unfortunately, you know medical is always
something that we need. And, you know, fortunately though we’ve got some space to put that.
You know, we don’t want people to have to go all the way down to Carmel Mount Ranch to go
to a doctor. And, you know, currently Kaiser Permanente doesn’t have a hospital. The nearest
one is Mira Mesa. So, 180,000 subscribers in North County have to go all the way there for a
hospital. So, it’s going to be opening up in August I’m told. They’ve got a ribbon cutting all
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scheduled. And the Creek project, the infrastructure, it’s about $112 million to start. That is our
largest capital improvement project we’ve ever had. We broke ground on that on my one-year
anniversary of taking office as Mayor, which is exciting being that, you know, I’d only been
talking about it for 10-12 years (laughs) before that. And, you know, before me many other
councils had talked about it. You know, this year is our 60th anniversary or birthday, and our
sister city Vista, it’s their birthday as well. We were incorporated on January 28, 1963. And so,
here we are. We’re in our birthday year, opening up our largest capital improvement project,
opening up our hospital. I mean, a lot is happening. There’s also an extension of Discovery
(Road) which is about $40 million as well, 30-40 million. That is going from Craven (Road) all
the way through to Twin Oaks (Valley Road). That’s a big deal too, getting that done. But, you
know, we’re trying to move people around in a meaningful way. That will be one of our first
corridors that has intuitive lighting, stop lights that will help people get through. But one of the
things that I’ve really focused on that I want to get done is to make sure that we’re getting the
traffic flow better. Traffic, it does feel like it’s at its worst. That’s one of the things that my
opponent (Randy Walton) was using against me during the campaign. I’m like “Well, we’ve got
all this road construction. Sure as heck, we’re going to have terrible traffic right now.” But when
it’s done, I believe it will be a significant improvement. You know, getting the flooding to stop
so you no longer have that. Being able to have two lanes over Via Veracruz is a big deal. And I
remember originally when we were talking about, you know, the Bent Crossing. We talked about
a—to save money, well, what if we did an Arizona Crossing (culvert crossing), which I don’t
know if you’re familiar with that.
SV: I’m not.
RJ: It would still flood!
SV: Okay.
RJ: And I said “No. No. No. Let’s, let’s not do that.” So, we were able to apply for federal funds.
And so, a lot of it is grant funded but a lot of money also comes from San Marcos residents. So
again, you know, back to wanting to spend their money wisely. Helping move them around the
city is really important. We appreciate everyone being so patient—not always patient. But, you
know, it has been a tough, tough project because we’ve had unprecedented rain this year, of
course. Of course, it had to happen! Just when we weren’t expecting it to happen. But, you know,
it would have been a heck of a lot worse had we not had the bridge at Bent opened. I think that
could have been actually dangerous for our residents if we had not gotten so far ahead on that.
But that will be done probably about a July timeframe. So, the infrastructure will be done. The
hospital will come right after that in August. I would say it’s a good year, a good year that we’re
getting a lot done, you know, the hospital done and everything, just a lot of good things for our
residents. And again, you know, the jobs that we’re providing too, that’s a thousand jobs at
Kaiser Permanente. So, those are some really good high-paying jobs. I think that’s a huge win.
I’m really proud of that. You know, when I first got the call from their west coast person, he said
to me “Are you still interested in the hospital?” And I was like “Where do I sign up?” (laughs)
Because, yes! Of course, I’m still interested. Anything we can do to help make that happen, you
know. And, you know, also having the university have, you know, the nursing program has been
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really important. And then, you know, also over at Palomar because, you know, these are also
the ability to teach, you know, hands on is a big deal. And, you know, we’re becoming a
healthcare hub, now, of North County which is great, you know, with the hospital opening up
and then Scripps are moving forward with their big medical offices. It’s, you know, again it’s sad
that people are not healthy, however good that they have the ability to get those healthcare
options close to home.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And the good jobs, of course.
SV: Yes.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: Yeah. Definitely.
RJ: In fact, my niece actually just got her nurse’s license. So, very exciting.
SV: Congratulations to your niece.
RJ: Yes, very exciting.
SV: I wanted to circle back a little bit to 2018 and just ask you why did you decide to run for
mayor then?
RJ: Oosh, well, I decided well before 2018. I actually decided when I was getting elected in 2016
as mayor. I talked to my husband at the time and, you know, ’18 was a tough year, I have to tell
you. I was finishing up my divorce. He told me he didn’t want to be married anymore in 2017.
So, I was in the middle of a divorce. I had to sell the property, buy a property. I moved 10 days
after the election. A lot of people don’t know how hard that was. It was really tough. But, you
know, what I knew that, again, you know being apolitical, really pretty apolitical, was an
important thing for our future. I think also, you know, having these large-scale things coming up.
I wanted to see them through. And, you know, I have to tell you, looking back and seeing all that
we have been able to accomplish during my time on the council, I’m so proud. I know that when
I’m ready to retire, I can look back and be very proud of what I’ve been able to accomplish with
very, you know, diverse group of people. We now have three women, by the way, on the city
council which is great. But, you know, again, you know, for 2018 having the first mayor that’s a
female, that’s pretty surprising. You know, as progressive as the city is and, you know, how
entrepreneurial we’ve really been, I always thought it would be Pia Harris Ebert, which she has
been a wonderful mentor to me. I can’t express enough how much I value her leadership, all of
her 24 years on the city council. But, you know, when she told me she was retiring, I said,
“What?? You can’t go!” and she said, “You know what? I can look back and I can be very
proud.” I mean we used to be known for our chicken ranch and then our dairy. And that was it!
We were known as a chicken ranch and dairy city, not for higher learning education, being a
great place to run a family, a great school district. We were never known for that. We were
known for other things. So, I really am proud of how we’ve elevated who we’ve become, the city
that we are, and all that we have accomplished. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, the
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things needed to be seen through and now, you know, I’m on my second term as mayor just, you
know, getting reelected last year. I am very happy. I’m very happy. But I’m also, you know, as
concerned about, you know, creating opportunity for a new team to come in that is like-minded,
focusing on us being a safe city, focusing on us being an entrepreneurial city, also making sure
that we are serving our community and providing awesome trails and parks and all of that. And it
becomes very challenging when you’re an infill city, and as built out as we are. So, you know,
it’s got to be, you know, trying to find good people that want to come after me. And that’s, you
know, what both Pia Harris Ebert and Hal Martin did.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And I appreciate that. And I take that responsibility very seriously as well. So, that’s what
I’m going to be doing the next three years, three and a half years. And then, you know, making
sure that we stay focused. And we’re going to have some tough financial times. You know,
it’s—business has not come back the way that we’ve all hoped. And so, you know, we hear of
layoffs all the time. You know, General Atomics, I think they laid off 400 people last week.
That’s a lot! So, having those challenges you really do need to have a good team in there. But,
you know, I’m trying to bring other people forward because that’s a big part of, you know, a
succession plan. It’s really important.
SV: Yeah. You mentioned businesses haven’t come back. Were you referring to from the
(COVID-19) pandemic?
RJ: Correct. Yes.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Just not in the way—you know, we do have a lot of businesses that have opened. But, you
know, we also lost some. I mean, San Marcos Brewery, I still am sad about that, you know, a
long-time business in our city, gone. Couldn’t keep their doors open with the open and closing
and all of that. There are a lot of stories like that, unfortunately. And so, you know, being able to
support the business community, I work a lot at that. I mean if I—I try to do everything I
possibly can to support our businesses. And, you know, it’s not like one business. It’s thousands,
you know. We’ve got like four tho—let me think here—four thousand businesses here in the
city. It’s a lot!
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It’s a lot. It’s actually upwards of four thousand. And, you know, many of those are store
fronts and they’re very small and, you know, they’re family owned. And, you know, I love that. I
love that they’re thriving. I love that they’re doing well. I was actually just at a business opening
a couple of weeks ago. The father-in-law of this young woman that just opened a brand-new
business, he is a long-time business owner in San Marcos, twenty—I think twenty-six years he’s
been in business. So, you know, seeing those generations, you know, staying in the city, opening
up new businesses. I love that. But, you know, they’re going to need our help. And, you know,
they need us to congregate and go to their businesses and, you know, spend our money here
locally. And I try to always, you know, emphasize that. You know, during the pandemic, I
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tirelessly spent so much time on, you know, media just hey talking about all of our great
businesses, and what about this and what about that and you know they need us now. But they
need us still now. It’s not going to end. And, you know, a lot of them are really struggling. So, as
costs go up, people eat out less. They spend less of their money. And so, we’ve got to remember
that, when you can, try to spend it locally, whenever possible.
SV: Yeah. I imagine a lot of governance is trying to minimize the bad impacts of change, you
know, unforeseen or foreseen. And you talked a little bit about the pandemic. I was curious as to,
you know, what you could do to lessen the burden on folks during that time and what you all did
do.
RJ: Gosh. Wow, we did a lot actually. We were the first city that—you know, we have always
had very good reserves.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: You know, that’s something that is because we’ve been very fiscally responsible. That
money is for rainy days. And when the pandemic came, that was a rainy day.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: It really was. And so, we set aside $3 million. We were the first city, I believe. The only
other city that may have actually beat us was the city of San Diego. But I think they set aside like
$5 million. We set aside $3 million. They’ve got a population of 1.3 million.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: We have a population of under 100. So, I think we really outshined them in that. And I’m
really proud that we did that. And that is, you know, that’s being very, very pro-business. I’ve
always been pro-business, you know, being that I owned my own business and I know how hard
it was. I thought that was something that we should do. And I wholeheartedly believe it’s the
right thing to do for our community. But, anyway, so we did that. And we had business loans.
So, it was small business loans up to $50,000, depending on your circumstances. We hired an
outside company to do all the credit checks. And just, you know, you couldn’t be late prior to
Covid. You know, you had to meet a few guidelines. But we were very intentional about trying
to get that money out fast, as fast as possible.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: The federal government didn’t have any money out. And we had already saved a lot of
businesses. Then the other thing that we did is we were the first city that had our businesses, as
soon as the governor—I remember watching the press conference. And Governor Newsom said,
when he was talking about some of the businesses could no longer be operating inside, but he
didn’t say outside! I was on the phone to our economic development director, and I said, “I’m
thinking we can have outside businesses. What can we do to make this as quick as possible.”
And we had people moving their businesses. And it was a lot of services, like haircutting and all
of that. And then there was another issue about that because—and, you know, restaurants and
everything. But there was another issue with that because they didn’t have their business
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licenses. So, we were actually fighting to open up. And, you know, I mean, again, tirelessly, the
letters that I sent to the governor. I mean, I was on full blown action I felt like the whole time,
which is very exhausting.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: But it was like okay, let’s get those businesses moved outside as soon as they can. And we
had businesses and we’re like “Don’t worry about your permit. We’re going to check, make sure
that you are following it. Just follow these guidelines and we’ll come and check on you.” We had
businesses out there before any other. And we didn’t charge anyone a fee. There were a lot of
cities that were out there charging them a fee. We’re like no. We need our businesses to stay in
place. We need to support them, and we can’t just say that we’re supporting them. We actually
have to do it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And so, I am really proud that we did that. And, you know again, we didn’t close all of our
trails. We were not very out in public, you know, screaming it from the rooftops that we’re open
because we didn’t want our city residents to feel crowded because all of the other residents from
the other cities were coming, though some people knew about them. It was just—it was
important for us to do everything we could to support the community. So, fast forward to when
we received our federal funds, we were actually able to take all of those loans and make them
grants so they didn’t have to be paid back. That was huge.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: The other thing that we did is we set aside some of our ARPA (American Rescue Plan Act)
funds to help our non-profits.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: Because they were really hurting at that time too. And I am so proud of all of the things that
we did during the pandemic because it was us being innovative, us cutting through the red tape,
and us working hard to support our businesses and our community and our non-profits. Because
our non-profits support our residents, right? And then the other thing that we also did is—and it’s
not our responsibility, though we recognized that our community, our youth were doing very
poorly. You know, I’ve been involved with the Boys and Girls Club for many years. And one of
the things that they—I was having a conversation with them—one of the things that they were
saying is that many of the kids that are at risk were not checking in. And so, you know, you’ve
got parents that are very frustrated. The kids are at risk of being abused or neglected. And you’ve
got this ultra tough situation happening. So, the mental health of our community, you know,
we’ve really tried to focus on that too. And so, one of the things that we did for our youth in the
community is we partnered with the school district, and we are equally funding the mental health
program that they have rolled out to help the kids bounce back and figure out. You know, a lot of
them are so confused. A lot of them have learning deficits. They don’t know how to articulate
that, their frustration, their fear and, you know, just getting sick. You know, a lot of them are
terrified of getting sick. And, you know, what is life going to be? It’s very different.
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SV: Yeah.
RJ: You know, back to the whole pivot—I mean, I know pivot is kind of overused during the
pandemic, but it’s a real thing. And so, for us as a city, you know, we made an intentional effort
to do what we could to also help the kids. And, you know again, I think I told you this a little bit
earlier, you know, I had people—I felt like a counselor many times during the pandemic. I had
some of our folks calling me up and sending me messages and saying, you know, “I’m scared.”
And so, I would check in on people and let them know, “Hey. You know what? You’re seen.
You’re heard. We care about you.” So, you know, mayor’s job is not just all legislation. You
know, there’s a lot of parts to it.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I think something that a lot of people think is really, it’s just all about rules
and regulations. That’s all your job is. Well, I think as a mayor especially, and a councilmember
to some degree, but I think as a mayor I’m the figurehead pretty much for the city council. A lot
of people know who the mayor is, and they might not know who their councilperson is. For me
to be the face of our city, out there letting people know that we care about them and letting them
know that it’s not all about rules and regulations. We actually had a young man that was
murdered within our community by one of his friends. He was in his early 20s. And, you know,
we renamed a trail after him, actually the Gratitude Trail in his memory, right there around
Discovery Lake because us doing things to help our community heal in tough times, in tragic
times, is really important. And I really do think that that’s a part of government that sometimes
people are like “Well, I’m a politician. I don’t have to do that.” Yeah, you don’t have to do it.
But I think doing it is important because, again, you know, how—you know, during the
pandemic, people needed to know we care about you.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: We care about your businesses. We’re all in with you. We’re going to do everything we can
to keep you open and do it safely, of course. But, you know, when it was all the big businesses
could stay open and then the small businesses were closed. They couldn’t adapt to that!
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Many of them went out of business. And, you know, so we had to make it so that it’s easy for
every small business to get a fair shake, to be treated like a large business, you know, while also
following the health order. So, it was a real tough time. And, again you know, back to grief.
You’ve got to deal with grief too within a community and figure out how to move people
forward. And, you know, one of the things that I think is always important is, even if you’re
taking baby steps moving forward, you’ve got to move forward. Whatever that looks like. And
sometimes it’s very different than two weeks ago even.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And, you know, I mean when the pandemic hit, remember, two weeks! Staying home.
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SV: Yeah. We have a archive that we started mostly with the students, but with community as
well, trying to record experiences during that time.
RJ: Yeah.
SV: And it’s amazing so many students especially writing “I thought I was going to have a twoweek vacation and here I am a year later.” And, you know, it’s just—
RJ: Yeah.
SV: —it’s just a traumatic experience all the way around.
RJ: For sure. And, you know, I mean that is a part, I think, of being a mayor during a pandemic
that I—you know, it’s kind of interesting. I was on a Zoom with some girl scouts, and they said
to me “If you knew there was going to be a pandemic, would you still run for mayor?” (Sean
laughs) And it was funny because I didn’t even hesitate and I said, “Absolutely!”
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And the reason being is because I was the right person at the right time. I am very positive
and I’m very—I mean, you know, the glass is not half-full. The glass is almost to the top, right?
There’s always a way to bring everyone together. There’s always a way to, you know, encourage
people. And, you know, that’s what I did! My job changed. But I kept working. And, you know,
there were a lot of people that really needed to be seen and I let them know they were being seen.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I think without hesitation I am glad that I was the mayor at that point in time.
SV: Mm-hmm. It’s a really interesting thing that you say about there being—I guess you’re
saying so your job is obviously legislation. But it’s also emotional labor and care and I’m
hearing as well, communication is important.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: What are some other aspects? I guess my question is what would surprise people the most
about your job that people don’t know?
RJ: Oh, that’s a tough one. Gosh, I don’t even know if I have an answer to that. You know, it’s
interesting. So, Jeff Zevely, he’s from Channel 8. He actually was doing a show on our birthday.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And he said to me, he goes “You know, if San Marcos had a cheer squad, would you be on
it?” and I said, “I’m the head cheerleader! What are you talking about?” (both chuckle) And he
even said to me after the interview, he goes “You were so fast. You didn’t even like stop for one
second.” I said, “Well, that’s my job.” My job is to not just deal with all the tough stuff. It’s also
to be out advocating that San Marcos is a great place to live. We have so much for—You know,
you can start out, you know, as a baby. And pretty soon you’ll be able to be born here (indicates
quotations with her fingers), actually born here, because—I mean, I guess you could be born at
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your house if you’ve got a midwife or something but, you know, it’s not a traditional thing. You
could be born here, and you can earn a master’s degree and then you could work here, and you
could have a good paying job. Like that is a remarkable thing if you look at our city from our
humble roots: one stop light, chicken ranch, the Prohoroff Chicken Ranch right here where the
university is today.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And Hollandia Dairy. That’s all we were known for. And so, yeah, I would say a lot of
people might not know what that entails but it’s a lot of time and effort. I can assure you of that.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Like it’s almost more than the actual job, although I do a lot of reading. So, that’s probably
the most time consuming part of my job, you know, because when I show up, you know, I’ve
even had people at SANDAG say—that are a different political party than me—say, “You know,
I might not—” And actually this happened like maybe, well it’s happened a few times, but in the
last couple of weeks, where this man got up and he said, “You know, Mayor Jones—” and I’m
like going “Oh gosh. What’s he going to say?” (both laugh) You never know, right? And then he
says, “Mayor Jones, even though I philosophically don’t agree with you on everything, I
appreciate that you are always prepared, and you know exactly what you’re talking about
because you’re prepared.” And it really does require a lot of time and effort. And, you know,
there are times I wake up and I’m like “I’m tired today. I don’t want to work.” But I don’t get
that luxury. I have to do what I have to do. And I’ve got to pull it together. And it is a very—you
know, the cheerleading part of it and I’m not saying it, you know, like a cheerleader—but, you
know, being again the spokesperson, the person that’s in the front, the person that’s out and
about the most, probably one of the most identifiable positions in the community—even if
people don’t know me, they know that there’s a mayor. You know, to be the mayor of such an
incredible city, I’m really humbled by it. I really am. But it does take a lot of effort and it does
take a lot of, you know, inner strength. And, you know, I had a pretty tough childhood and, you
know, I was a latchkey kid a lot of the time. And, you know, my parents got divorced when I was
eleven which is a really tough age. And I had a lot of things happen where I just go “Gosh, I
wish it wouldn’t have been my life.” However, it was. But you know what? It also gives me the
authority when people are, you know, telling me “You know, I’m going through tough times,” I
get it! I was there. I’ve been there. And, you know, I think it helps me do a very good job. And,
you know, not everyone thinks I do a good job. But I just got reelected so—
SV: Yep!
RJ: —again, 64% of the vote. I don’t think I mentioned that before. But the largest margin I’ve
ever won by, I think that is a testament to how much I care for the community, how hard I work
for the community, and the fact that it’s not all about legislation to me. It really is about being
the cheerleader and the person that’s out in the front, talking about what a remarkable
community we have. And when I say, “the community,” it’s the people.
SV: Mm-hmm.
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RJ: It’s not me. It’s people that I represent. And I hope that they will always feel like they can
reach out to me, and I will always try to help them in whatever I can.
SV: Yeah. Thank you. I think I had maybe one or two more questions. But something that I
didn’t necessarily prepare to talk about in this interview, I wanted to ask you about was you
mentioned you’re the first mayor that was elected that’s a woman in San Marcos history.
RJ: Mm-hmm.
SV: And I was curious if there are considerations that, in your opinion, that women politicians
have to take into account that men do not.
RJ: Huh! (Sean chuckles) Well…
SV: I know that’s a big question.
RJ: Well, I’m also not married. So, it actually is quite awkward—
SV: Yeah.
RJ: —in a lot of ways, you know, because I am out there. It opens it up for—And, you know,
there’s a lot of discussion about bias, right?
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: There is still bias against women. It’s sad. But there are. And women politicians! I don’t
know if people are surprised all the time. But, I mean, I have been, I mean, I’ve been called
names. I’ve been, you know, people try to box me in as I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to believe
that it’s 2023 and things still happen the way that they happen because, you know, talking about
what I look like, what my body looks like. I’ve had people actually talk about what my body
looks like! I’m thinking, wow! You know? Would you say that to your mother? Because I’m
pretty sure you wouldn’t. And so, you know, at a job like this that’s very out there, very highly
visible—and I am highly visible—you know, I’ve had a few times, very inappropriate comments,
inappropriate messages sent to me. And, you know, a couple of times I’m like “Gee, should I be
worried?” And I send everything to the Sheriff’s department when I have things that are sent to
me that are uncomfortable. But it’s different than being a man. One hundred percent. It’s very
different than being a man. I don’t think you have to worry about people talking about what you
look like. I don’t think that any man as a mayor would have people sending them messages about
what they look like.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I don’t think it would ever happen. Now, I don’t really mean if someone says “Oh, I really
like how your style.” That’s not sexual. But the truth is a lot of things that are sent are very
sexual and I think—I am actually flabbergasted, and you know I’m almost 56 years old. I’m
flabbergasted that at 56 years old, as an elected mayor, that I would be treated like this. But it
happens!
SV: Yeah.
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RJ: It’s really hard to believe. And, honestly, I feel bad for every woman that is just trying to do
a job and it gets distracted and convoluted by people bringing in other things that are just not
appropriate. It’s just not appropriate. I mean, talking about what I look like or whether they—I
mean, the first thing that someone said to me—I was offended but it was early on—was that my
teeth were freakishly white. And I went (makes a puzzled and slightly disgusted look on her face)
“Why would someone talk about that?” I don’t even think someone would say that about a man.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: But I feel like, as a woman, on some level there is this—it’s open to talk about what you’re
wearing, what you look like, whether they think you are, you know, someone they would want to
date or someone—I mean, like really inappropriate things when you’re just trying to darn well do
a job, you know what I mean? So, it really is just hard to believe that here we are in 2025—or
2023. Gosh, I can’t even believe I just said that. (both laugh)
SV: What would your advice—
RJ: You can cut that part out! (both still laughing)
SV: We’ll make a note. What would your advice be to women entering politics?
RJ: That’s another tough one. You know, I have a podcast too.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And one of the things about my podcast that I love is that you’ve got women from every
different, you know, career, all different political parties. It’s not at all political. But they’re all
just doing their job and they found something that they love. So, I guess one of the things that I
would tell women that are thinking about politics, if you love it, you should definitely do it
because you’re going to be very, very effective when you can put your heart into it. There is a lot
of preparation that happens. And like for me, you know, I now am the one with the historical
knowledge because I’ve been around so long. There is a lot to learn. I mean, you really do need
to try to figure out why things happened. I mean, when I first joined the council, I spent every
single Friday, like half a day, with the City Manager because he was with the city for like 24
years to find out everything I could about the why and the how and, you know, just how things
happen because I thought that would prepare me which it has. But don’t let the things—I mean,
you are going to have to have thick skin. It’s true. You are going to have to have thick skin,
thicker than a man that goes into politics. But don’t be deterred by people. You really need to
follow what you think is right and bringing in your own style. Like I don’t know anyone that
does my job the way that I do it because I do it my way. And I don’t let any political party call
me up and tell me what to do. I follow what I believe is right. And I follow the kind of politician
that I want to be, though I don’t really consider myself politician, technically I am. But I really
just want to do a good job. I want to be prepared. I think as a woman you probably have to be a
little more prepared. Otherwise, people will start thinking that “Well, you don’t belong there.
You’re not smart enough. You’re not this.” It really is about taking information and making a
good decision. If you’re a good decision-maker, you can do this job. You’re qualified. You love
the community, you’re qualified. If you are willing to put a lot into it, you’re qualified. Not
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everyone has that qualification. And when I say qualification, it’s not just what others believe but
it’s what you believe on the inside. And, you know again, back to my podcast, my podcast is
about elevating women because we really still need elevating.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: As, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, different segments of the population
whether you’re a minority, whatever, it really still is about women too. We do fit into that. The
equity and the inclusion isn’t all about your race. It’s about also your gender because our gender
still is a hinderance. And some people don’t see that. And I wish more people paid attention to
that because when you’re a woman, you’re a minority. You really do have more against you than
a man that’s a minority. And as a woman that is not a minority, you still have things against you
that are something that a man would not experience.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And I wish more people really paid attention to that. But, you know, back to the point of if
you’re a woman and you really want to, if you have a heart for politics, you should not let any
one person or segment of people deter you if you really, really have the heart for it because you
can do it. It just is going to be probably a little harder than it is for a man.
SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that answer. And I think it’s wonderful advice.
RJ: Thank you.
SV: I’ll give you a much nicer question.
RJ: Nah, that’s not a hard question at all! I, honestly, and I really do believe it. I mean, it’s
terrible! It really is terrible that we’re still there, in 2023.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: Why did I say 2025? I don’t know. (Sean laughs)
SV: It happens. What is the best day of work that you’ve had?
RJ: Oh, gosh. There have been a lot of them. I would say I had a really good one recently. And
it’s weird because, you know, it’s always something different. But honestly, when I am out in the
community at an event and there are kids and they ask me things like—I was at the Boys and
Girls Club and I was, of all things, baking cookies with them. So, let me tell you a little story. So,
during the pandemic, we decided at West Lake Village that we, the city, that we were—well, we
already knew that we were going to have a long-term lease for the Boys and Girls Club so they
could expand their services at that location. And then, when we got some of our ARPA
(American Rescue Plan Act) funds, we were like okay, we’ll help them with the TIs (tenant
improvements) because then that’ll be good for the community because kids can go there and,
you know, spend, you know, more time there. So, anyway, I was like “Oh, they’re going to have
a kitchen there.” And I was like “That’s so cool.” So, I called up the director—and by the way, I
started a girls mentoring program at the Boys and Girls Club which during the pandemic we had
to kind of shut down. But I used my tax refund to put some money into it. And I said to them, I
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said “You know what would be great?” I go, “I really want to come back and spend more time
with the kids,” because I’ve been so busy since I got elected as mayor. I don’t always have time
to do all the things I really want to do. And I said, “Can I come back and, you know, bake
cookies with the kids?” And they were like “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “So, I want to also donate a
mixer.” You know, not all kids get to use a really nice KitchenAid mixer. But it’s really cool to
use and to learn and, you know again, like to your point, you know. When you’re a chef, you
probably are going to be using one of those at some point in time. So, I was like “I really want to
buy one.” I’m like “It’s on my heart. I want to do this.” So, I donated the mixer a while ago. And
then I’m like, “Gosh. Okay, it’s January. I need to start figuring out when I’m going to get in and
bake cookies with the kids because I really want to do it.” And so, we set up a date. It was right
after the darn (Highway) 78 flooding happened.
SV: Oh, yeah.
RJ: And CalTrans (California Department of Transportation). And it was that day. It was that
day at 4 o’clock. I was supposed to go over there and bake cookies with them. And then I had to
cancel because Caltrans had to have this emergency meeting. And I was like on Zoom, and I was
like “Oh, darn it.” I’m like “Oh, duty calls.” I’m like “Can we reschedule another day?” So, we
rescheduled another day. I get there and the kids are so excited to meet the mayor first of all.
And this is, by the way, intentionally in one of our lower income areas of the city. It’s over on
Autumn Drive. And they’re like “Do you think I could be a mayor?” And I just got to hang out
and talk to them and I’m like—and teach them how to make, you know, how to crack the eggs.
They were doing so good. And, you know, so there was about—I think there was like 12 or 14 of
them. I’m like “I want to go back and do that like so all the kids that go to that branch have that
moment of time with me.” Because I appreciated it as much as they did. And so, for me, the
moments like that or when I get to go and talk to, you know, kids that are at the Boys and Girls
Club service groups like Girls Scouts, Boys Scouts. All of the kids groups, honestly, those are
the best days that I always have. I mean, really, the kids are excited. I’m really excited to hear
what they have to say. But I also am getting a different—and back to, you know, my point of
going out and door knocking and meeting people and hearing what they have to say about the
city. I’m hearing it from kids and they’re going to be 100% honest.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: They’re not going to sugarcoat it.
SV: (laughs) That’s true.
RJ: They’re not going to try to fluff me up. They’re not going to try to get something out of me.
They are going to tell me exactly what they think about their community.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And you know what? I appreciate that. So, for me, it’s always about the moments with the
kids when I get to go out and do things like that. It actually fills me so much more than any other
moments because, again you know, you do have to put a lot into it. You know, when you’re out
there on—and when I say “on” (air quotes with her fingers) you know, you’re talking to people.
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And I don’t want people to feel like they can’t approach me. So, I’m very approachable. And that
is one of the things that I really do pride myself on. I don’t want anyone to feel like I ever don’t
approach—you know, they can’t approach me. And so, one of our community members sent me
this message recently and he said to me, “You know,” —his daughter was in the kids mentor, the
girls mentor group—and he said “You know,” he goes “it was so cute. My daughter, we were
talking about something.” And she’s also a Girl Scout. And he said “Yeah. She says ‘Well, I
know the mayor.’” (both laugh) And he’s like “and she was saying this, you know, to my wife
and, you know, to—we had friends over and she goes ‘yeah, I know the mayor.’” And he goes
“It was the coolest thing because she really felt like she connected with me.” And I’m like “She
did connect with me.” and I love that. I love that our kids in the community can feel like they
connected with me because I feel like they will never probably forget that. And I oftentimes
when I’m places—I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. I was getting some food to go from
San Marcos Market. There was a mom and the daughter and I were just kind of talking. And I
went out to my car, and I got her one of our city pens and then I said to her, and I say this very
often—so, you know, our city emblem is a wayfinding sign, a compass—and I said to her, I said,
“Do you know what this is?” I took it back to her. I said, “Do you know what this is?” And she
goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, you’ll probably see it on all of our San Marcos signs. It’s a
wayfinding sign, so it’s a compass.” And I said, “What it stands for is to discover life’s
possibilities. And it’s going to be different for you than it is for me and for your little friends.
Every single one of you has something that is your path to success.” And it’s not all—
Everyone’s not going to go to a four-year college. I actually didn’t go to a four-year college. But
everyone’s going to have a path to success. And I want everyone to know that they’ve got
something inside of them that is what their path is and, you know, it might not be traditional. It
might be traditional, but it might not. And I want everyone to know that there is their best self.
There is a place that is a best self for every single person. And, again, it’s going to be very
different for everyone. And, you know, my kids, my daughter just graduated from USD. My son
went to Palomar. Totally different kids. Totally different people. But it doesn’t mean that one is
going to be more successful than the other. And I want people to know that and believe that in
themselves. I didn’t have parents that, you know, tried to make me feel like I could be successful
in whatever I did. I honestly believe that my parents just wanted me to get married and have
babies. And that was all they really hoped for me. And here I am. I’m the mayor of one of the
best cities in the county. And I am so grateful for every moment that I get to spend in the
community and encouraging people and spending my time letting them know that we believe in
them. We care about them. That’s what my job is in a nutshell. And I know it is kind of back to a
different point of what we were talking about. But the truth is every moment that you’re
inspiring kids in the community is a win for me.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: So, those days are the best. And, you know, really I try to—I always carry my pens in the
car. I’m like “Wait! Just wait!” I try to throw them, honestly, in my purse sometimes or in my
pocket or whatever. I don’t always remember. But I think those moments when you just say that
one thing, that could change the trajectory of someone’s life. And I know I remember my fourthgrade teacher, Mrs. Long. Here I am, you know, 56 years old almost. And I remember fourth
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grade, what she said to me. She said, “You can do bigger things than you think you can.” And I
just know that that’s why I am the right person, right now, to do what I’m doing.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And I’m so grateful for it. And I really have a hard time believing that I actually am doing
this, but I love it. Most days I absolutely love it,
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And there are times when you’re tired and you go “I don’t want to get up today.” But then,
you know, you have those days where you really just go “Okay. This is going to fill me in. Now,
I can get through another week or whatever.”
SV: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I think that’s a great sentiment to end our interview on. I did
want to ask you just one more question and that is if there’s anything that I should have asked
you that I did not.
RJ: No, because honestly, you know how I—I think you realize what my style is. (both laugh) if
you don’t bring it up and I want to say it, I’ll just bring it in there. So, no, I don’t think so.
SV: Okay.
RJ: Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s funny. At KUSI, they’re like “Oh, well, we’ll just ask you one
question. You just know what to do.” (both laugh) “You know what, you can just get everything
you want to say in.” I’m like “Oh, okay. Thanks!” And, you know, by the way, when I was first
elected as mayor, I was like “I can’t go on TV! I’m scared to death! I’m going to be sweating.
I’m going to be stressed. I’m going to say wrong things.” Like now, I’m like, I laugh about it.
You know, what I said. I’m like “Aw, geez. Two thousand twenty-five. What am I saying?”
(raises her hands and chuckles) You know, but I used to be really hard on myself. But you know
what? I don’t think people really want perfection. They want truth and honesty and authentic.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: And, you know, I try to be those things. I try to be, you know—I don’t even honestly think
about it. I just try not to be guarded when I am—And, you know, if I show up to something, I
don’t want to be the person that is like “Cheese!” (motions as if smiling widely for a camera)
take a picture and then leave. Like, I’m there to do whatever you need me to do. Like if I need to
take out trash, get icky stuff on my hands, I’m going to do it. Like, I want to be fully engaged
when I show up to things. And I don’t think every politician is like that. I honestly wish there
were more people, not exactly my style, but really having the reason as the reason, as the real
reason, you know what I mean? Not like “Oh, I’m looking for my next thing, my next higher
office.” (makes air quotes with hands) You know, I am planning on running for county
supervisor next. But if I’m not elected, I’m totally fine. I’ve done good. I really do believe that. I
really do believe I’ve done good.
SV: Yeah. When are you running for county supervisor?
RJ: In 2026, when this term is over.
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SV: Okay.
RJ: So, not to worry. I’m not going to skip like in the middle of my term. So, Jim Desmond will
be termed out and I’m running for that seat. And, you know, it’s a bigger job but, you know, the
good thing is I will get paid for the hours that I work.
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: And then I have staff. So, I think I can work on the same level, you know, put in the same
amount but have more fruit because I have people working for me and I’m actually getting paid
for it. So—
SV: Yeah.
RJ: You know, because we make less than $12,000 a year. I don’t know if you know that.
SV: I didn’t know.
RJ: Yeah. Yeah. I’m the best value in the county. (both laugh) Everyone’s like—Well, actually a
bunch of my friends are like “You’re the hardest working mayor in the whole county!” And I go
“Well, you know, yeah.” But, again, I’m not one of those people that shows up and like takes a
picture and leaves. That’s just not my thing.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I don’t do that. Anyway. Anything else?
SV: No. Thank you so much for your time.
RJ: Do you feel like you know me now?
SV: I do!
RJ: Okay, good.
SV: I appreciate you spending some time—
RJ: Yeah.
SV: —talking with us today. And I think this is going to be really valuable to our students and
researchers in the future. So, thank you.
RJ: Well, again, you know our city has come such a long way. And we really do have a lot to be
proud of. And I really do believe that people that live here and I hear it time and time again,
showing up at their house and they’re like “I love it here.”
SV: Mm-hmm.
RJ: “I love this city. I really wouldn’t live anywhere else.” And, you know, even when they’re
upset about things, they still don’t want to leave. They still are very happy. They’re like “But,
it’s better than—” You know, blah, blah, blah. Or where else. So, I think, you know, we’ve built
a great place. My first house was over behind Fire Station No. 2. (points in front and to the left
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with her left hand) And now I live over off of La Moree. (points behind her right shoulder with
her right hand) So, I’ve had three houses over here. So, I’ve owned four houses in the city.
SV: Nice.
RJ: I’m definitely not leaving.
SV: Yeah.
RJ: I love it here.
SV: Well, thank you, again. I appreciate everything.
RJ: Of course, yeah.
Transcribed by Melissa Martin
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�
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Jones, Rebecca. Interview transcript, April 12. 2023.
Description
An account of the resource
Mayor Rebecca Jones has been involved in local governance of San Marcos, California since 2005, when she served on the San Marcos Creek Specific Plan Task Force until 2007. Jones served on City Council from 2007 to 2018, winning re-election three times. Jones also served as Vice Mayor from 2012-2018, and was elected as Mayor in 2018 and re-elected in 2022. In addition to her role as Mayor, Jones represents San Marcos on the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) Board of Directors and on the SANDAG executive committee and regional planning committee. Jones also sits on the Countywide Redevelopment Successor Agency Oversight Board.
In her oral history, Jones discusses the structure of San Marcos's local government and how it interacts with the San Diego County government. Jones recalls her foray into politics and recounts previous elections as well as her service on the San Marcos Creek Task Force. Jones also offers her perspective on public transit, car transit, bike transit, and microtransit, development in San Marcos, and how the she and city navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. Jones delves into her experience as a woman in politics, and her place as San Marcos's first woman mayor, and offers advice to women interested in a political career. Jones also discusses her podcast, cooking, self-care, and the Boys and Girls Club of San Marcos.
Creator
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Rebecca Jones
Contributor
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Melissa Martin
Sean Visintainer
Date
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2023-04-12
Subject
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COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Economic aspects
COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-2023 -- Government policy
Development and growth -- California -- San Marcos
Local government -- California -- San Marcos
San Diego Association of Governments
Women in politics
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San Diego County (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University University Library
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English
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Rebecca Jones
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text
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JonesRebecca_VisintainerSean_2023-04-12_transcript
Community history
North County Oral History Initiative
Politics and governance
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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Oral History
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Interviewer
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Michael De Maria
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bridget Blanshan
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=BlanshanBridget_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-26.xml
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5.4 Blanshan, Bridget. Interview April 26th, 2023. SC027-41 01:11:22 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center ; California State University San Marcos. Student Affairs ; Education, Higher ; Human rights ; San Marcos (Calif.) Bridget Blanshan Michael De Maria BlanshanBridget_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-26.mp4 1:|29(8)|41(7)|54(13)|63(5)|77(7)|91(13)|101(12)|113(5)|124(4)|144(10)|158(13)|169(3)|182(15)|192(14)|205(7)|226(15)|235(2)|244(13)|254(7)|268(4)|282(12)|292(9)|301(5)|317(12)|328(3)|341(8)|350(12)|358(13)|376(4)|392(6)|401(15)|412(4)|423(11)|427(6)|438(8)|447(12)|474(8)|494(10)|509(12)|517(13)|529(11)|542(14)|553(11)|565(7)|580(6)|600(11)|612(14)|627(11)|635(10)|652(10)|661(6)|675(8)|684(10)|705(3)|719(5)|740(15)|751(4)|761(7)|770(9)|787(5)|797(3)|810(10)|823(5)|845(4)|855(12)|866(7)|876(2)|885(4)|916(8)|924(15)|936(16)|953(6)|961(8) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/64050652e0eb6e5394c893ea21cb13c0.mp4 Other video English 0 Introduction and Educational Background Michael De Maria introduces Bridget Blanshan, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Title IX Coordinator at California State University San Marcos, and asks about her educational background. Blanshan discusses her background beginning with her bachelor's in business management from Iowa State, working at San Diego State, and obtaining her master's from University of San Diego. 0 305 First Impressions of CSUSM Blanshan recounts her experience joining CSUSM after eleven years at San Diego State University. In particular, Blanshan discusses her role in the development of the University Village Apartments and student residential life overall. As on-campus housing emerged, Blanshan noted the shift in demographics as more younger students began enrolling. The foundations of student life on-campus were beginning around the time Blanshan joined CSUSM, which offered her a unique perspective on its development. 0 575 A Call for Student Centers Blanshan recalls her 2002 article "Vision 2010" whereby she proclaimed the need for multicultural (or cross-cultural) centers on college campuses. She cites the differing needs of students who find community through various means, whether that be Greek Life, sports, arts, or student centers ; identities have to be validated and confirmed. Blanshan discusses the importance of understanding inclusivity and diversity. 0 922 Social Climate Prior to Multicultural Center After stressing her singular perspective, Blanshan considers the differences between the urban San Diego with a more-conservative San Marcos region. In such a region, how might queer students, for instance, be under serviced if they do not have a safe space to express their identities? CSUSM student centers had their foundation in the Multicultural Center. 0 1182 Diversity at CSUSM Blanshan details how the Cross-Cultural Center and other student identity-focused centers exemplify the notion of diversity at CSUSM and how intersectionality reminds us to recognize the unique identities of every individual. Blanshan also discusses how centers on campus offer students a safe space to engage with inclusive and diverse communities which represent their multifaceted identities. Blanshan notes the importance of unity through both shared and different identities. 0 1414 Blanshan's Participation with the CCC Blanshan recalls the handful of initiatives and events that Blanshan directly organized with the CCC, including a first-week student welcome and the Multicultural Student Leadership Council. The former stressed the importance of recognizing and creating diverse spaces to be inclusive. The latter was a weekend retreat for students. 0 1766 Activism Through the CCC Blanshan emphasizes the importance of synergy among CSUSM student centers, and how with their unique communities, goals, and demands, they work together to promote the acceptance of diversity and thus a more inclusive experience on campus. She further discusses the Black Student Center, the Women and Gender Equity Center, the Latin
/x Center, the Pride Center, and others that come provide space for student activism. Blanshan elaborates on how these centers are both a result and a factor in student activism. 0 2144 Opposition to Diversity & ; Inclusivity Blanshan recounts opposition to her work for student diversity and inclusivity. "Challenging the status quo leaves others feeling excluded or blamed," according to Blanshan, and it is important to hear and include those doubtful voices in conversations of progress. In the 21st century, workplaces are increasingly diverse and Blanshan stresses the importance of recognizing diversity to create inclusivity, and acceptance of those with differences as opposed to mere tolerance. 0 2481 Favorite Memories Blanshan recalls the weekend retreats with students among her favorite memories. Being able to engage in open dialogues with a diverse community of students reinforced Blanshan's work in promoting inclusivity. She also enjoyed the development of the center itself under then-director, Floyd Lai. 0 2691 Blanshan's Doctorate and Dissertation The findings of Blanshan's 2007 dissertation (A study in multicultural awareness of residence hall directors in California colleges) are discussed. Blanshan cites the influence of Pope and Reynolds' conception of multicultural awareness, knowledge, and skill ; this multifaceted approach informed her study, which found moderately high levels of awareness across California campuses. 0 2911 Cross-Cultural Center and Student Retention Fondly remembering her experience with Dr. Gregory Toya, Blanshan recalls his association between Cross-Cultural Centers and student retention. Within this, she recalls a framework by Nancy Schlosberg whereby those who feel important and represented, are more likely to become or remain engaged. Blanshan discusses how recognizing and managing marginalization should be a cornerstone of the CCC. 0 3181 CCC Change Over Time and Professional Impact Blanshan recounts the center's evolution over time, starting with the change from Multicultural to Cross-Cultural Center. Blanshan discusses the foundation of the Activists Lab, where students engage in dialogues which challenge societal norms. Additionally, Blanshan defines how the center impacted her work as a professional, specifically in her role as Title IX Coordinator. 0 3529 The Cross-Cultural Center and other identity-specific centers Regarding the Cross-Cultural Center's coexistence with other student centers at CSUSM. Blanshan notes that the various student centers themselves recognize intersectionality and the individuality of each human experience, and that the Cross-Cultural Center allows students to "unpack unique areas of historical tension." Blanshan discusses that how issues evolve over time impact the roles of various centers, including the CCC, and that no center exists independently. 0 3768 Currently Underrepresented Communities Blanshan discusses underrepresented communities at CSUSM, including any student organization not affiliated with a center. Blanshan references Asian and Pacific Islander and American Indian students who cannot readily identify with a space on campus. While the Cross-Cultural Center provides space and resources to those underrepresented communities, Blanshan discusses the potential for future space at CSUSM for identity-based student centers. 0 4062 Advice for Student Advocacy For those seeking a career in student advocacy, Blanshan recommends an awareness of oneself and others ; focusing upon the motivation behind leadership informs the practice of advocacy for others. To make positive change, Blanshan thinks self-reflection is imperative. 0 Bridget Blanshan is Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Title IX Coordinator at California State University San Marcos. In this interview, Blanshan discusses her educational & ; professional background, student leadership development, and diversity and inclusivity on campus. De Maria: My name is Michael De Maria. I'm a graduate research assistant with Kellogg Library at CSU (Cal State University) San Marcos. Today I'm interviewing Bridget Blanshan, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Title IX Coordinator here at CSU San Marcos. The date is April twenty-sixth, and the time is 1:36 p.m. So, Bridget, thank you for joining us today to discuss your involvement with the history of the Cross-Cultural Center, as well as talk about some other programs that you've implemented at CSU San Marcos. Blanshan: Sure. De Maria: The first question I wanted to ask you was actually about your academic background. Blanshan: Sure. De Maria: So what led you to your interest in student advocacy and ultimately administration in higher ed. (education)? Blanshan: Mm-hmm. Good question. So Michael, thanks for the time today. This is gonna be a fun conversation. So, I have a bachelor's degree in business management which I received from Iowa State University. That's the state in which I was born and raised through my college graduation. And while--as many of us, it occurs for many of us who go into student affairs work, it was really during my college experience that I interacted with student affairs professionals. I was involved on campus, and I thought, this is really rewarding for me, and this seems like an interesting career. Let me, let me see if I like it. Let me try it on. And so I had been active as a, a student leader and as a student employee, Resident Assistant was what they were called at that time in student housing at Iowa State (University). And I really enjoyed that role. And so, I spoke with my supervisor and asked what she thought, and she talked with me about kind of how to get my foot in the door and take a job to, to see if that was something I was interested in. So, I did that and I started as a Hall Coordinator at San Diego State University in 1990. I expected to be there just for a couple of years and then go back to the Midwest. But I really fell in love with the state and the CSU mission, which is really around as, as I think many of us are aware, really around being the educator for the state of California. Really providing an opportunity for the diverse student, um students across our state to get a college degree, many of whom are first in their family to do that. And that was something that I, I was very--really realized I was very passionate about. So, I then went on knowing that I would need a master's degree, at least, to continue in Student Affairs and work on a college campus. So, in 1993, I started a master's degree in a program called Educational Leadership at the University of San Diego. And I graduated with my master's degree in 1995. And that was great because I was able to match the, the core requirements, which was about half of the program, with relevant electives, which for me was able to do for example, some of the programs that they offered in their college student personnel or college student counseling program. So that was a great combination. And I continued working at San Diego State until 2001, at which point I came to CSUSM and started my, my tenure here. And then in 2004, I started a doctoral program at the University of Laverne, and it was a doctoral program in Organizational Leadership and found that really rewarding as well and really, really relevant. It's very much a hands-on applied program. So my educational background, which was really the focus of your question, is in management and leadership studies. I've been able to work in, either through courses that I've elected to take or the projects that I've done, really looking at organizations through a, a lens of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). And so I'm very grateful for being able to have done that. De Maria: Very, very cool. And very impressive. You've been at CSUSM since 2001. I'd like to know what your first impression of CSUSM was, and then in particular, what work you felt like needed to be done there. Blanshan: Sure. So, as I mentioned, I was at San Diego State for eleven years working in student housing. While I was there, about midway through those eleven years, SDSU celebrated its’ centennial. And so then starting at, at CSUSM, and the position that I came to perform was what was then called the Director of Student and Residential Life. And in particular, we were bringin--University Village Apartments (UVA)--that was about concurrent when the time I started, that was approved to be constructed. So that was a major focus of getting the campus ready to have on-campus student housing, and students who were with us 24/7 rather than students commuting at the point as they did. And so coming to, from a(n) over one hundred-year-old campus to a campus that was really new--I'm not quite sure that, I don't think we had celebrated our fifteenth anniversary yet, or we did shortly around the time I arrived. I was, I really enjoyed the students that I met, and I found that the, the campus, the employees were really, really committed to the campus and to the student body. We had only been admitting first year students. It, we started, the campus started by admitting transfer students, and then over, within say the next five to seven years, started admitting first year students. So one of the things that I noticed, from a student life perspective, is it, we didn't have some of the common experiences that first year students on other campuses had. We, there, there were very few night and weekend kind of activities, and which only made sense because many of our transfer students had families of their own, the average age had been, of a student in the early days of CSUSM, had been in the late twenties, so around twenty-eight or twenty-nine years old. So that's, that's very different than the, the college experience that we're offering today. And so, I really looked for ways to start building the foundation, for that (student experience offered at CSUSM today). So at the time, Student and Residential Life included, so residential life, getting ready for student housing and the experience they, that students would have there. We had at the time, two fraternities and two sororities. So we had foundations of fraternity and sorority life. New student orientation was part of the department, as were student organizations. I wanna say within my first, first year or two, we had, I think all of thirty-one student organizations. So it was, again, in its, in its infancy a bit. And then we also, shortly thereafter, started leadership programs. And so that was kind of what we were building, and trying to build that with a vision as to the students that the university would come to serve, as opposed to the students that, that we had served in the, the beginning of the campus. So that's maybe a long answer to your question of what did I think we needed to do? And it was kind of set our, set ourselves up with the building blocks, so that we could serve a student body that was very diverse in terms of age. So at that point, we were, our diversification was to be the average age coming younger, students who lived on campus, and a true diverse student body ; that would those kind of build those co-curricular foundations so that it was already, there wouldn't be impediments to students wanting to do things that really met their interests more than, than kind of how things had been outlined in the early years. De Maria: I see. So, a lot of new and exciting developments, obviously some growing pains, right? Blanshan: Oh, absolutely. Sure. De Maria: Cool. From there, I'd like you to take me back to 2002. So, in that year, you authored a memo titled “Vision 2010” that essentially espoused the need for, you know, a multicultural center on campus. So I just wanted to ask, what were your aspirations for offering that memo? And then why was there--you did explain it a bit in shifting demographics--but just why there was a need for a multicultural center on campus at that time. Blanshan: Yeah, I think, I think for me, and I mentioned this you know, as I shared with you about my education, I think it's both through my education of being able to look at, at leadership and organizations. And I would say that not only for being a workplace as a university, but also being a--a place, a college campus, is really looking at things through a diversity, equity, and inclusion lens. And so, making certain that we were continuing to evolve in a way where the students who were coming to study with us could feel that they could make a home or a connection somewhere. And so, it's, it's really to the notion of finding a sense of belonging. Some students would find that through a fraternity or sorority other students would find that through Associated Students (Incorporated, student governance organization). I felt very much that, two things ; one was that some students would find a place that specifically was designed to be multicultural affirming and in that, that use of even the term “culture,” we intentionally set it very broadly because again, this was before we had any, any identity center on campus that was only student focused. So, this was before the Women's Center, which then evolved to the Gender Equity Center, now, Women's and Gender Equity Center, (it) was before the Pride Center. So, it really was defined “cultural” very, very broadly. So how people's experiences, their community, their sense of identity, and how we could really intentionally affirm that, so that students kind of felt a sense of belonging. I, going back to thinking about, you know, student development as they engage outside the classroom and thinking about, so I mentioned we were also developing a student leadership development program. So for me in, in, you know, being situated in a new millennium, right, in 2001, 2002, the only way to really do that authentically in a way that met student needs, but also spoke to students, but also prepared them for life after college, was to have a multicultural focus on leadership. And so not only what, what is the, the end goal of our leadership endeavors, but how do we do, how do we do leadership and prepare students to lead in very diverse teams, very diverse communities and, and do that in a variety of different ways. So as they want to go out and engage in change making, how might they do that? So that was where, one of the reasons that I wrote that which is so interesting now in 2023 to, to think back of writing “Vision 2010.” But to--I think it was also part of that foundation building that I was talking about before. How do we really create this so that we're intentionally offering as much as we can for places for students to plug-in and feel like CSUSM is theirs? And it's theirs not only as a place to belong, but in a place where they can engage and make it even better. The other thing that I would say, not only in my education, but eleven years at San Diego State in student housing, I had an amazing opportunity to be at a very diverse institution. And in student housing in particular, it's a very unique kind of learning lab for people to come together and live together, a wide variety, a wide diversity of students. So we had to be very, very intentional about preparing our staff, preparing our student leaders to do those roles in a very diverse environment. And so that very much affected kind of how I saw my work in Student Affairs. And a lot of the endeavors that we did throughout the 1990s to enable students, much like I described with a Multicultural Programs area, but to enable students to feel at home, especially students from communities and identities who were often marginalized. And so really pro- doing that in a very intentional way. De Maria: Absolutely. So it sounds like with the founding of that Multicultural Center you'd be essentially addressing some qualitative gaps in the student experience. Not only on the emotional kind of community front, but also allowing students to gain some professional experiences and background too. Blanshan: Mm-hmm. Exactly. De Maria: Very cool. Now I'd like to take you, I'd like for you to take me back to 2003. So what was the social climate of the campus like prior to the establishment of that first Multicultural Center? Blanshan: Wow, that's a great question. And, and I can only, in order to be fair, you know, this is, this is only my perspective on it. So I can't speak for how other people would've described the social climate. And clearly this is informed from my eleven years at San Diego State. So being a very large urban university in the middle of a very large city (San Diego)--San Marcos, at the time the region, North County region, was I would say much more socially and politically, religiously to some extent, conservative. Compared to the broader San Diego County. So that, I think we felt--I felt that, I'll speak for myself, I felt that at CSUSM, that and I think the university was kind of coming to terms with how do we, how do we serve our community knowing that there, that this is a more conservative area within the county. I think we had students who I knew div-- especially some of the, the diversity and i--of identities that aren't visible. Um I of course assumed that for example, we had LGBTQ+ students, but I didn't know them because there wasn't necessarily a student organization. So there wasn't the visibility or the space, as I was more accustomed to at San Diego State. And, and I don't think it was out of any intent to exclude anyone. I think it was just in the building, the very formative years of the institution, and really building the academic programs and coming in and it just was really the time in the institution's development to really focus on kind of broadening the co-curricular experiences for our students. So it was, it was certainly a transition for me. But I also, I would say I also found such wonderful professional colleagues who were of like-mind. And we, we came together and partnered a great deal toward these initiatives. So we had in, the department's name shifted, within my leadership of it, from Student and Residential Life to Student Life and Leadership. And we enjoyed amazing partnerships with Associated Students (Inc). And that's not always something that one takes for granted on a college campus. But I think we were able to come together, clarify you know, how we each add to the campus, to the student experience, and how we can support each other in doing that. So it was, there was a lot of synergy there. For that collaboration. I reported to the Dean of Students at the time, who very much shared this vision and supported it with everything that he could. Certainly the leadership in (Division of) Student Affairs were supportive as well. So I think it was, we were, we were just in that place of the development of the campus where it, I guess the way to sum it up is to say just because something didn't exist didn't mean there wasn't support for it. It just was that growth trajectory that the campus was taking. De Maria: Totally. And it, obviously with necessary growth, that's very cool to hear about. In a 2006 issue of The Pride (student) newspaper, while introducing a talk from Reverend Dr. Jamie Washington, you describe Cal State San Marcos students as “having good fortune for being in a place where not everyone looks like them.” I'd like to know how programs at the Cross-Cultural Center, or at the time the Multicultural Center reinforced that notion and what those early programs looked like. Blanshan: Sure. That's--you're reminding me of things I've forgotten (laughs). One of the things that the Associate Director at the time, so the founding Associate Director Dilcie Perez, one of her first initiatives was, and this was another partnership with the Dean of Students Office, with all of Student and Residential Life at the time and ASI (Associated Student Inc.) was, she built the Multicultural Student Leadership Council. And so, within that council there were, started really with looking at student organizations that were built around identity. So, that could have been one, our, if we had a Women's Studies Student Association, which we did back in the day, if we had an African-American Student Association, so some of the predecessors of, you know, BSU (Black Student Union) or our LGBTQ student org (Pride Center), other organizations that were built around religious identity and expression. So really looking at purposely bringing people together, knowing that their, that their focus of their organization, their identities may be different, but the organization had a common mission which was to promote student belonging, advocate for student needs. And so how could they support each other or be allies for each other as they each sought to do that independently, but then also where the, where are the ways that they could promote that collectively as well. So that was, that was just one example. I think, you know when we had Dr. Washington, I remember, I remember that year and I remember the, we had a wonderful turnout of student leaders to go through that experience. And I remember thinking that and he was really focusing on diversity and leadership and equity and, and equity minded leadership. And what are, how do we get to know each other in all of the identities that we all share and that those in which we’re different. And the intersectionality that all of us represent. And so I think I just remember looking across the students that were assembled that evening and thinking, this, this is, this is the kind of opportunity that without the diversity of our student body, that opportunity would not exist. And so how do we, how do we take that and make that a transformative experience being the ultimate goal? De Maria: Totally. Yeah. And I think one theme that we've already touched on is, you know, the value of that educational experience, but also as a professional experience too. So being in diverse places oftentimes makes us just better at what we do. And then regarding your participation in, you know, Multicultural Center programs or Cross-Cultural Center programs I'd like to know about specific programs that were put on and then what your experiences were like, kind of engaging with them or directing with them. Blanshan: Sure. Oh, there were a handful. We did, we had started some, and I'm not going to remember the name of it, but a kind of a Cross-Cultural welcome for incoming students is kind of one of the, the events that we would offer at week, what are now referred to as Weeks of Welcome. Again, I think creating space where students could just check it out, see what it's like, 'cause that's really, you know it, we want students to explore as much of the campus communities as they can as soon as they get here. And so, I think not only to experience and to hear but also to experience that through this event, we're symbolizing the importance of not only diversity, but inclusion. And, and we often put those two words together, but they're, they're different, right? I think diversity, diversity exists, and it doesn't mean that it, it exists without our collective effort, but just because someplace is diverse doesn't mean it's inclusive. And so how do we symbolize that, have that be kind of a, a cornerstone program that kicks-off a student's experience at CSUSM, and then how do we just start and build on that? So, certainly doing hosting and co-hosting that for several years is, is one example. We talked about the Multicultural Student Leadership Council that we would do overnight retreats. That evolved over time into the better part of a weekend. So a Friday through, kind of like midday Friday through midday Sunday experience for students. And I think that kind of deep dive and being part of that was always really, really rewarding. Again, very harken back to a lot of the work that I had done at, at San Diego State. So really kind of bringing that in, for students to be able to do a deep dive and for them to create space where it's--it's where learning is okay and discomfort is expected. And to, you know, really hopefully broaden their viewpoints, or affirm those that may not be held by many or most students. And so I think doing that (overnight retreats), I think there were, oh gosh so many things as we brought out, brought on student housing as well that I've, I will always describe student housing as a high risk, but also high reward offering. A high risk in that if, again looking at it through the lens of a diverse student body, that if there's, if we're not there intentionally assisting students to live together through those differences, then the risk of someone feeling very targeted and excluded can be really high. The counterpoint to that is if that's done well, and of course that's, that part of doing that well is the, is students themselves being open to it. That can be an amazingly impactful experience. So, I think working very intentionally in partnership of--with our Resident Advisor, training with our professional staff and being part of the selection and training of those folks. Having that voice at the table that really is looking at how are we preparing for the student experience through a lens of, diversity and equity and inclusion. Or lenses, I should say. And that's not to say that we always got it right. But it, but there's not a chance of getting it right if there's not some intentionality to it. De Maria: Totally, and just acknowledging the difficulty of including that student housing component with Student Life, it, you know, sounds like you needed everyone to be all in, not just to provide that good experience, but also to provide the proper one for certain individuals. Blanshan: Right. Right. Yep. Yeah, it was, it was a, I reflect so fondly on those early days because it very much was we regard(less), everyone had a bit of a different role, right? Different responsibilities. But in order for anyone to succeed, it required everybody. Simply because of the size of our departments or the size of our institution. And we figured out how to do that well. So that actually was a rewarding outcome just to be kind of in community with our colleagues to support whatever endeavor was, was happening at the time. De Maria: Very cool. For my next question, I wanted to know about instances of activism you witnessed. Or participated in that stemmed from the Cross-Cultural Center slash Multicultural Center. Blanshan: Wow. It's hard to pinpoint something that stemmed only from Multicultural Programs, 'cause again, I was talking about that collaboration, that synergy. So I would maybe hope you'll allow me to go maybe a little bit broader. Some of the things that, that we just kind of accept as business as usual if you will, are the fact that we have the number of identity related centers that we do. So back in the day, at the start of the Cross-Cultural, well again, what we call Multicultural Programs and we had a very, very small space. But it then I think, and through our partnership with ASI (Associated Students Inc.) and their own commitment, then that generated a Women's Center, then generated the LGBTQ+ Pride Center. And then we, if you look at the (University) Student Union (CSUSM building), if you were to walk the third floor of the Student Union, you would see the Cross-Cultural Center, the Latin
/x Center, Women's and Gender Equity, and the Pride Center. You'd go up another floor and see, see the Black Student Center and more centers to come. Certainly we have the Veteran’s Center and the, it's space where it's at. I think, I like to think that Multicultural Programs laid the, laid the ground for that to grow. Because I think having a space to come together and people to see what happens when students come together, then kind of lends itself to now we've opened the door, let's talk about what we want this to look like. And I, and those occurred by like I said, either through ASI or through student organizations and student leaders, really activating with the university leadership to make sure that they happen, in the case of Latinx and BSC (Black Student Center). So I think I look at it that way. I look at, at the fact that all the centers are in general in the same location. And that was very intentional. They're--we didn't split them out by like their home department, if you will. It was, “How do we place these so students are going to engage them as, as much as we can get them to engage?” And so it's no accident that they're on the third floor (of the University Student Union) together, right under food. 'Cause we know students will come in for food. I think things like University Hour (no classes held between 12 to pm Tuseday and Thursday) is that, you know, how does that relate to you know, Multicultural Programs? I think it relates because we also were introducing programs and events that where we could articulate the student learning associated with those programs and events. To reserve, you know, twelve to twelve fifty a couple of days a week in a college in a university's academic schedule is no small sacrifice. That is, can be considered prime teaching time. And I think it was because we had laid a foundation that we will, we’re able to say it's not that education is stopping from twelve to twelve fifty, it's just we're enabling students ; in particular, those students who didn't live with us weren't able because of maybe they had family and work and, and all kinds of things, but they were likely on campus so they could have an experience that they otherwise wouldn't have. Sorry, I can think of you know pointing to something as now that we see as large--that we can only envision, as large as the USU (University Student Union) I could see the vacant ground from my office window of where it was, where it now was built and sitting ; to something that I think, you know, University Hour is tradition here. I think presently the Student Leadership and Involvement Center which is kind of an evolvement of what we started with Student and Residential Life. They also continue to offer Women's Leadership Symposium. So that was something we also launched about the same time leadership from a leadership and cultural place. Because I think when we broadly consider a cultural experience or an identity related experience, I think that's where we get into notions that gender and how we are socialized to be however we identify in our gender is a really important factor to how we engage with the campus and the broader world. So. De Maria: Yeah, and I really, that really resonates with me in terms of thinking of the establishment of those centers as activism. Ultimately, all activism is meant to affect an institutional change. So it's just very empowering to hear that there were so many individuals who were empowered to do that and kind of follow in the Multicultural Center's footsteps in that respect. Blanshan: Mm-Hmm. De Maria: Well so, for my next question on a bit of a different note- Blanshan: Sure. De Maria: I managed to find a mem- or a letter, I guess, from FIRE, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education. And that was a letter that you were cc'd (carbon copied) on regarding a student publication called the Koala. So the Koala, just giving a brief summary for anyone listening to this interview, was a satirical newspaper on CSUSM campus that was known for publishing questionable, lewd, some would even say obscene content about people in the community and would sometimes lampoon, you know certain efforts from student organizations to do a lot of (laughs) to affect change positively. Blanshan: Right. De Maria: So my question isn't necessarily about the Koala, but it is about opposition. So I do want to ask you if there were groups, or if there was prominent opposition? And how that manifested itself on campus. Blanshan: And when you, you say opposition, are you thinking opposition to establishing Multicultural Programs, or as we kind of went out and did various programmatic initiatives, or? De Maria: I'm referring to cha- yeah, so challenging the necessity for Multicultural Programs as well as the outcomes of those programs. Blanshan: Hmm. You know, I, I think we see so many examples of that, that opposition today. I think I, as we set out to kind of create you know the vision and mission for Multicultural Programs, it was--how do I say this? I think there are different roles for different change makers to move society forward. So I think there are some that are, are very focused on being almost, there's a role for opposing existing institutions. There's also a role for folks operating inside an institution to elevate something, which is kind of how I would think we did this with Multicultural Programs, bringing the program to life, bringing, you know creating even more space for it. I think there wasn't opposition to it organizationally, and I don't--so this is the catch with trying to mem--you know, go back 20 years in memory. I don't know that there was vocal or visible pushback, but I do think anytime we're talking about social justice and equity, it can be an inclusive space for some, and it also because it's challenging the status quo leaves others feeling excluded or blamed or it, that's where some of that discomfort happens. And I think we very much try to include, even voices who might say, you know, “Why do we need this?” Why do we--because I think it was, it's always being able to say to a student who may say, “I don't think we need this on, on campus. I don't think the campus should be spending resources in this way.” Being able to sit down and say, “Okay, let's talk about your vision for your career. Where, do you hope to work?” And, you know, learning more about the, the individual. “Who do you think your coworkers will be? Who do you think your boss might be? Who do you think, if you were if you have constituents that your product or services is going out to target, who will they be? And think about how these experiences might better prepare you to be successful in that environment that you are in that future that you're envisioning for yourself.” So I think trying to include, include everybody? While knowing that the impact of the program, the experience, or the initiative is gonna be different based on how people see themselves. And how they perceive their place to be in the campus community or the world. De Maria: Totally. And once again, you kind of touched on that concept of social justice, diversity, and equity kind of being necessary as something that we kind of can't avoid living in the modern world. So again, definitely resonates with me and is definitely a pertinent message to anyone who might not see the value of certain programs like that. Regarding the Cross-Cultural Center itself, I'd like you to tell me what your favorite memory is. Blanshan: Hmm. I have many. I think certainly something that comes to mind are the, when we started the retreats, and we kind of, this was, when I say “we,” it was a very broad “we,” so it was folks who maybe their- our positions didn't envision us being on a weekend retreat with students. But because people had either an area of expertise or a passion or experience in another role at another campus or another, you know, organization such as like Anti-Defamation League or something like that, that they could really come together, brought a group of people together that didn't always work with each other, and to really offer something that could be so transformative. And I think it's just, and also being with students as they go through an experience like that is a really--it's a unique opportunity of getting to kind of participate in or watch from the side of students grappling with concepts, grappling with their emotions around whatever it is we're talking about. Creating space to hear each other. You know, those are, those are just really powerful experiences. So that, that would absolutely be a favorite. I don't think I could name the favorite, but definitely a favorite. It's also been a pleasure to watch the space grow and watch it grow in terms of now I think some of the, the great work that Floyd (Lai)'s (Director of the Cross-Cultural Center, 2011-2023) been doing with us for, for many years, but like the Activist Lab (Cross-Cultural Center work space) or you know, working on, on preparing people to have difficult dialogues and how to do that. I think I think it's so critically, it's been critically important the whole time. But I, as I reflect on kind of what we're hit with in the media today about our, our own country and the world, that's not something we're seeing. We see people who you know, have very spiteful, hateful reactions to even ideological differences. And so, I think being able to, even if it's a few students at a time, it's enabling someone to have a conversation or see a conversation where we can have very, very passionate differences, but we can still respect each other. And in an ideal place learn from each other. De Maria: Totally. And that also relates back to what you were mentioning regarding diversity and inclusion not being the same thing and not being a package deal all the time. So I can definitely see that importance of inclusion, you know, even if it does lead to those difficult conversations or acknowledging some not so favorable things about our own behavior, things that we've said in the past. Blanshan: Yeah (talking over each other). Yeah. De Maria: So I, I totally get that. In shifting gears a little bit here, I do want to talk about your doctorate. As well as your 2007 dissertation in particular. So that was (a) study of the multicultural awareness of professional residence hall directors in California colleges. And in your own words, I just wanted to know what your findings were. Blanshan: Hmm. Findings were that it, the instrument was a self-support, or self-report survey. So I don't think any person who's done research would tell you what findings are without acknowledging that there are limitations to any method. I think, so within that self-report, what we got back were fairly I would say moderate to high levels of multicultural awareness. And so the notion, if you look at, you know, “Why is that important?” It's a construct by Pope and Reynolds, back in the early two thousands, of a construct of Multicultural Competence in Student Affairs (Advancing Social and Inclusion ; book by Raechele L. Pope and Amy L. Reynolds). And so, Pope and Renolds talk about that being multicultural awareness, multicultural knowledge, and multicultural skills. And so that awareness, knowledge of skills has to be there. But awareness of others and awareness of myself, if that's not there, then we're kind of--then we can't get to this place of multicultural competence, which in the dissertation I really argued was an essential aspect to student affairs work because of the diversity of our student bodies. So it was a fairly, like I said moderate to high in terms of the quantitative. I think as I reflect on it, not a surprise, although you know, you never know what you, you don't know what you don't know until you learn it. I probably got just as much out of the sliver of qualitative part of that instrument of learning where people believe their awareness came from. So, was it “I lived abroad as a child.” I think that was a response. There were, and it just, the range because it showed just a different level of reflection of, “What do I think this is? And where do I think this (multicultural competency) came from in me?” I could rate myself highly, but someone else may not agree. Right? So, there's the opportunity for other research of validating this self-report with peer or supervisorial ratings as well. But I think asking people, “Where did that (multicultural competency) come from?” was a really interesting aspect of that. De Maria: Got it. Very, very cool. And going from there I also wanted to ask you what your relationship was like with Dr. Gregory Toya (current Associate Dean of Students at CSUSM)? In particular I want to know if-- what your involvement was in his study regarding the importance of cultural spaces on college campuses and its relationship to student retention. Blanshan: Right. You see me smiling. I have a very fond place, for Greg. He was--I started as the Associate VP (Vice President), Interim Associate VP and Dean of Students in 2006. Right about March and April of that year, and in June or July Dr. Toya joined as the Associate Dean. And so, he was just a wonderful collegial partner. And I was able to--he started his doctoral program shortly, maybe a couple of years into his time on our campus. He had come from cross-cultural center work. That was his most recent position, before coming to us (CSUSM). And one of the reasons that I was interested in Greg joining our team, and selecting him, was because of that experience. And so, to see him then study that for his dissertation made all kinds of sense in the world. And I appreciated his thought about not only the association of a Cross-Cultural Center on student retention, but I think he also looked at what are some of those aspects of leadership or leaders in Cross-Cultural Centers that contribute to that (student retention). And you know, it was again, not a surprise because one of, to hire people into student affairs work, we typically will ask them to spend better part of a day or sometimes a day and a half with us interviewing on campus. And that typically will involve presentation. And so the presentation he was asked to provide, so I'm going back to 2006 before he even started his doctorate, was to ask him to name a student development theory or framework that he felt he would rely on to do the associate dean job as it was then defined. So he was working with students through student conduct, working through students with students on, students that were considering withdrawing from the university, and some other aspects of what was happening in the Dean of Students Office at the time. And he chose actually one of my favorite frameworks too. It's by Nancy Schlosberg. And I can't spell that out loud for you today, but I can get you the citation. But Schlosberg talks about marginality and mattering, and I don't recall his dissertation well enough, but that's kind of a foundational thing of: if I believe that I matter, then I'm more likely to participate, I'm more likely to persevere when things are really difficult because I matter to the campus, or I matter to someone on campus. As opposed to: if I feel like I don't make a difference at all, and I'm kind of experiencing something from a, you know, I'm experiencing even, not that I even worse than, “I don't make a difference.” But if I'm--if I feel like I'm being marginalized on my campus, then those things are less likely to happen. Those, all those things where we ask, because we're already asking so much of a student who may experience marginalization just to come back to campus day-to-day, let alone go through things that just happen in life when a student's studying for a college degree. And so, I think I was thrilled to work with Greg as he did his doctoral program and his dissertation and remember him, his (dissertation) defense as well. It was, it was a great day. De Maria: That's awesome. And I do have a few more questions left. Blanshan: Sure. De Maria: All relating to the Cross-Cultural Center itself. So my next question, just in general how has the Cross-Cultural Center changed over time? Blanshan: Hmm. Well I think, you know even something, it's a name but I think names are incredibly important. You know, going from Multicultural Programs to Cross-Cultural Center, I think as we started to see more, whether it be services, spaces, organizations kind of become present on campus I think it could focus more on that cross-cultural aspect as opposed to providing a home base for everyone. Not that it shouldn't still be that, I would want any student, and I'm not the only one who would want this, any student to feel comfortable going to the Cross-Cultural Center. But I think some of the work like I was mentioning before, the Activist Lab, some of the space where we really can get into those dialogues across differences and, “What the heck is a dialogue anyway and how is that different than a debate?” You know I think that's, that gives it more space, more programmatic and physical space to be able to do those things. So that's been great to see it (the Cross-Cultural Center) evolve and kind of redefine its role over the last two decades. De Maria: Absolutely. And it's also been very enjoyable for me to hear about the genesis of a lot of these programs, especially as I'm embarking on these interviews and kind of hearing about things that happened, but not necessarily knowing the beginning of that. So, it's definitely a rich history, and I'm also glad it's been around for so long. Blanshan: Mm-Hmm. De Maria: And my last few questions are about the future of the Cross-Cultural Center. But how have your experiences with (the) Cross-Cultural Center impacted you as a professional? And what kind of programs do you see yourself working on as a result of those experiences? Blanshan: You know, I think--I think for me you know, from its, even its inception, it was a kind of a sense, a place of where I could kind of recharge myself. So, because it was a space that was overtly designed for, to be welcoming of people across differences, being welcome of myriad identities. And so, you know just talking about a very personal impact to me is it's a great place to say, “okay, I may be having, maybe it's a difficult day, but you know, I can just stop in and say hello and talk with a staff member.” And especially, you know, early on. And that was, that was a highlight. Like I said, it's been enriching to, you know, years ago participate in some of the retreats or actually some of the training that was offered and partner with different people to do that. I think I still--I enjoy supporting it. I think you know for the past you know, as you think about, as I think about my role as a Title IX Coordinator, and then also someone who oversees the University's response to concerns of discrimination and harassment, I see that as just another function within our stated values to be an inclusive community. And so, it's not directly related to the Cross-Cultural Center, but I think I hold on to initiatives like the Cross-Cultural Center as those initiatives. For example, among our students where we can enable them to feel included rather than, like I was saying before, marginalized which sometimes means that they believe they've experienced discrimination or harassment. I think, so it's all that is very um, it’s just kind of all blended in there. I couldn't, in working at the CSU, so I talked about working at CSUSM and San Diego State, you know spending my entire career at the CSU isn't an accident, for me. It's very much about the mission of the system. And to me that mission has to be informed through the values of inclusion and equity. And so I can't imagine that--I can't imagine being fulfilled by my work if that, if I weren't able to do that. De Maria: Totally. And that's also resonating with me regarding the establishment of the Cross-Cultural Center, kind of being like a manifestation of that mission, as well as like representing future programs that the University's gonna commit to. So, (I) totally get that. Um, going forward, what role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with the expansion of other identity-specific spaces on campus? Blanshan: Mm-Hmm. I think it, I think it's a reflection of intersectionality, in one part, right? And it's not to say that our identity centers aren't inclusive of the many identities that are represented within students who go to the Latin
/x Center, or the Black Student Center. So I think we're all, we have many intersections within our, each of us individually. But I think the Cross-Cultural Center being able to look at and potentially unpack some unique areas of historical tension, provide space for if we have student organizations existing on our campus that those communities in our world may be at conflict. How can the Cross-Cultural center help them to kind of find common purpose? Even if they're representing potentially even two warring communities somewhere in the globe. I think (the) Cross-Cultural Center, if you look at it as leadership programs continue to be built out. Whether it's a, even as you, like we talked about the Women's Leadership Symposium and that being very specifically open to everyone, regardless of how a student identifies based on their gender. So being explicitly inclusive of women, men, and all genders that with which students identify, but to understand a unique, some of the historical and then the evolving issues for leadership as informed by experience and socialization based on gender. So I think, you know, that even something that looks, or people may perceive that this is this initiative, this Women's Leadership Symposium is only for women. There is a, there's a space for everyone. And so I think whether that's, you know building on intersectionality that we understand or--and or purposely really creating experiences for cross-cultural -- broadly defined -- exchange. I think, you know I think that's where it's going to continue to be essential to our campus. De Maria: Yeah. And it's very inspiring to recognize that there's still room for growth and for change in the (Cross-Cultural) Center, even though it you know has been so successful and so impactful. So obviously, you know people change (laughs), culture and societies change, methods of education change. So, it's awesome to recognize that that center can coexist, but also serve a specialized purpose at the same time. Blanshan: Yeah. I think the--expanding the centers that we offer on campus helps give each center potentially a more, I don't wanna say narrow, but more clarified purpose. More focused purpose maybe. But there has to be synergy and a very purposeful, intentional collaboration. So that we can provide what we want to for our students. De Maria: Absolutely. Blanshan: At least I think what we should provide to our students. De Maria: Absolutely. On a different note, what communities do you feel are currently underrepresented on campus? Blanshan: I know we have conversation about an American Indian student center. I think we also are in communication about an APIDA center, Asian Pacific Islander (Desi American). So I think those are meeting needs. I think we look at, I know there was a lot of conversation that went into what the center, that into the naming of the center, which is now the Women's and Gender Equity Center. I think the importance of women being explicitly included in the name is important. I think, and I think it's also critical that it's not, I don't wanna say just, that it's not only a Women's Center, because I think we need to also be able to symbolically and programmatically represent the spectrum of gender that we should be affirming in our campus community. I think our student, our student body, our campus community is, it's a microcosm of our world. So, I think there are, could be that, and if you were to look at some of our campus climate studies, you might see that certainly we have disability support services which provide amazing services for our students with disabilities. But do, are, is there more that we could do different from DSS (Disabled Student Services)? Or more like a, whether it's a more social aspect or a sense of belonging. You know, DSS has a very specific role to play, but is there more we could be doing on our campus? I think, I think we continue to grapple, like every campus does across the nation with issues of bias, discrimination, and violence, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment. I think, and I think that's something that we need to keep our eye on in terms of our prevention and education. Those are, experiences like that are often life-changing. And so, you know how do we work our best work to prevent them? And in the event that they're not prevented, how do we make sure that our intervention and our response is as effective as it can be? So, you know I think, and I think we're and every college campus is a human institution. And humans, we’re pretty fallible. And we're it's a, like I said a microcosm of a broader, a broader environment. So, I think there are always ways that we need to be asking the question that you just asked. So who do we, who do we think is experiencing marginalization? And how do we start creating multiple approaches? Because there's, there's not just there will never be a one-size fits all approach to that dilemma. De Maria: Yeah, absolutely. And that's what leads to those kind of like, difficult, I guess you'd call 'em, conversations about— Blanshan: Absolutely. De Maria: --affecting change and doing the work, basically (De Maria laughs) in order to do that. So, thank you for sharing those thoughts with me. Blanshan: Sure. De Maria: And for my final question, I wanted to ask you personally, if someone is interested in pursuing a career in student advocacy or even social justice, what recommendations or tips would you give them? Blanshan: Hmm. That's a great question. I when I think of advocacy and I think of a career in something like social justice, and not a surprise, right? We talked about my educational background. So I think of many things in terms of leadership, right? I think one of the first things to be mindful of is, and I, and this is, this is also true in that little snippet I gave you about multicultural awareness, being an awareness of others, but also awareness of self. I think leadership, especially on something such as social justice, such as advocacy, is (that) it requires a consistent intention. A consistent attention to my own motivations, how I—kind of where are those things where I find that really feed my purpose, why I want to do this work, and how do I kind of refuel when I've had difficulty. But I think in leadership and in equ--diversity and equity and inclusion work, if we don't always have a mirror back on ourselves so that we could keep ourselves in check, I think it could start, we can, the impact of our work can start to go awry. And I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it's really trying to stay on, what do I think is needed to make positive change. Is this just my thought or have I consulted with others, especially those who disagree with me? To think through what--am I in a blind spot? And then to go out and do the work in a way that we can sustain the work personally and professionally. De Maria: Totally. And I think--I think it does take a community to affect that change. And going back to what you mentioned earlier about diversity versus inclusion, the marriage of those concepts, it requires us to include others and to make those decisions, not just as a sole member, but as a collective. Blanshan: Yeah. I think--I think critical friends are essential. So, yeah I, we always learn more from people who are willing to, I'll speak for myself. I always learn more from people who are willing to say, “I disagree with you, and here's why. And I think you're missing something.” Because that gets me, that stops me before I might do something that might have an impact that completely contradicts what my hope was. So. De Maria: Absolutely. Well thank you for sharing that with us, and that's gonna be the end of this interview. Bridget again, can't say enough how much I appreciate you taking time out for this. I think this is gonna be an excellent resource for anyone interested in the history of the Cross-Cultural Center or just looking for some inspiration in joining the field of student advocacy and social justice. So once again, thank you. Blanshan: Thank you, Michael. It was a pleasure. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
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Blanshan, Bridget. Interview April 26th, 2023.
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Bridget Blanshan is Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Title IX Coordinator at California State University San Marcos. In this interview, Blanshan discusses her educational & professional background, student leadership development, and diversity and inclusivity on campus.
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SC027-41
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
California State University San Marcos. Student Affairs
Education, Higher
Human rights
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2023-04-26
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video
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Bridget Blanshan
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Michael De Maria
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San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Bridget Blanshan
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Women's experience
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Seth Stanley
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Gerardo Cabral
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=CabralGerardo_StanleySeth_2023-04-28.xml
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LGBTQA;Gay;Cross-Cultural Center;CSUSM
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5.4 Cabral, Gerardo. Interview April 28th, 2023. SC027-36 00:42:54 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State Universtity San Mrcos. Cross-Cultural Center ; LGBTQ+ life ; Education, Higher ; Human rights ; Student success LGBTQA ; Gay ; Cross-Cultural Center ; CSUSM Gerardo Cabral Seth Stanley Audio CabralGerardo_StanleySeth_2023-04-28 1:|15(11)|32(3)|47(5)|61(5)|84(4)|96(5)|112(9)|125(17)|142(9)|160(3)|174(5)|192(3)|205(14)|222(6)|240(3)|257(6)|270(9)|282(7)|298(7)|311(5)|323(4)|347(13)|364(5)|375(9)|391(5)|402(8)|413(2)|425(2)|459(11)|471(10)|485(4)|499(2)|512(9)|523(3)|537(4)|552(4)|567(11)|574(3)|595(10)|607(6)|616(6)|627(4)|641(8) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/36df964a2128464e17075f579d463428.m4a Other audio english 1 Interview Introduction 0 23 Educational background Cabral was born in San Diego and started off at Palomar college before continuing on at CSUSM. San Diego ; California State San Marcos ; Palomar 0 88 Getting involved in Cross-Cultural Center (CCC)/ Career experience Cabral explains how because of his courses and understanding of ethnic studies he wanted to apply to the Multicultural Center (now the CCC). Cabral received a position as peer educator and learned community building techniques which he later applied to his job at SDSU (San Diego State University) as a resident director. He then moved to Sacramento State and got a job in student outreach and engagement. Shortly after, Cabral moved back to San Diego and began a job more centered around first generation and LatinX backgrounds. California State San Marcos ; Peer educator ; Palomar Community College ; Ethnic Studies ; Equity ; Diversity ; latinx 0 586 Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 Cabral explains his role as a Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 and how he is a brand ambassador for the local community. He ensures that through the news the community can feel represented, and that the news can be trusted as a voice for the locals. ABC-10 ; Community ; relationships 0 799 Fostering Relations Cabral explains how he created a segment for the ABC-10 news that has a multicultural lens and provides representation to the local community, building relationships amongst the news team and the community, allowing news to be catered and personalized to the community members. Alex Bell ; Community ; Multicultural ; representation 0 1100 Advice for One Working in Community Relations Cabral explains how one must be their authentic self when building community. That their morals and values must line up with their job. To elevate ones story they must serve with their community in mind. authentic ; morals ; values ; serving 0 1296 Starting at the Cross-Cultural Center/ Sara Sheikh Cabral explains how small and underdeveloped the Cross-Cultural Center was when he started. Despite the size, the staff helped the school practice diversity and inclusivity. Sara Sheikh was Cabral's mentor and set the tone for the center. She helped to educate, train and encourage students on being their authentic selves in group settings. Sara Sheikh ; Social Justice Retreat ; mentor ; educating ; teaching ; learning 0 1725 Living Authentically The Cross-Cultural Center provided Cabral a space to be his true self and gave him resources to come out as a gay man to his family. It allowed him to live authentically and provided him with confidence that he could use to empower the community. authentic ; gay ; empower ; community ; authentic 0 2045 CCC Help Cabral Professionally/Favorite memory Cabral explains how the CCC helped him to be more confident in any space. He explains how his favorite memory was the Social Justice Summit. This is where he was able to be vulnerable and learn about others who attended. He explains how those who went to the summit became enlightened about themselves. Social Justice Summit ; Diversity, Equity, and Inclusivity ; Confident ; authentic 0 2304 Role of CCC to Coexist with Identity Spaces Cabral explains how the CCC can coexist with and work with other centers to provide resources for all. Cross-Cultural Center ; LGBT Center ; Gender Equity Center ; Pride Center ; ethnic ; identity 0 Gerardo Cabral is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his Bachelors of Business degree in 2011. Gerardo worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2011. In this interview, Cabral discusses how the Cross-Cultural Center was a space that cultivated and enriched self-identity. It provided not only students with a voice but Cabral to begin living his true authentic life. Seth Stanley: Hello, this is Seth Stanley. Today I am interviewing Gerardo Cabral for the California State University San Marcos Cross-Cultural Center Oral History project. Today is April 28th, 2023, and this interview is taking place via Zoom. Hi Gerardo. Thank you for coming. Gerardo Cabral: Hey, Seth! Stanley: To start off, could you give me a, a bit of background and how you ended up at CSUSM? Cabral: Yeah, so I'm originally from San Diego, and born and raised there. And so Cal State San Marcos and San Diego State were sort of my options. I, I didn't ever think of leaving. So how I ended up at Sac(ramento State)--or not Sac State--Cal State San Marcos is I transferred there after I did about five years at Palomar College. I was working full-time. And so with that , I worked with my EOP (Educational Opportunity Program) counselor and we, we submitted some applications locally. And so got into to Cal State San Marcos and I thought it was a great fit. Felt it, it, it felt good to attend and sort of in the current stage of my life at that moment. And so, accepted it and my journey started 2008. Stanley: Very cool. Could you tell us about your journey from, from be being a student at CSUSM to becoming a community relations manager at ABC 10 (News San Diego)? Cabral: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big question. (Stanley laughs). It's a long-- (both talking at once) Stanley: Go for it, man. Cabral: But essentially so, in 2008, so I graduated high school in 2003, and--and so I went to high school that didn't have a lot of support for sort of students of underprivileged and underserved backgrounds. So I really didn't have the choice of going to a four-year (college). I did have some of my friends go and they talked about their experience. As I was in college, I was experiencing sort of the, the life outside of their lens, outside of that lens. And so when I was going to Cal--, when I was going to Palomar, the community college I did, I did tell it to myself that I was gonna transfer into a four-year and I was going to make everything possible to get that quote unquote college experience without living on campus. So I did that. So when I got to Cal State San Marcos one of the first things was like, I wanted to get involved. I wanted to work on campus. Mind you, I was working full-time at, as a financial advisor at a credit union. But I felt it was so important for me to get that experience because if I didn't, I would probably regret it for the rest of my life. So I wanted to make sure that I made friends, that I worked on campus, that I really engaged with sort of the culture of the campus community. And so I went--I went online and I started looking at jobs, and I saw this peer educator position at the Cross-Cultural Center. I've always had, I took a lot of Chicano Studies classes, Ethnic Studies classes. So I really had this fond appreciation for multicultural education, and understanding, and you know, the, the, the work of what that all encompasses. And so, so I applied for that. To be honest, my interview probably didn't go as well because I was in, I was in the mindset of a financial advisor position. I had already been there for seven years, and so I thought like, oh, I'm gonna get this interview in the bag. But then once I started having them ask me questions about like, what's my, what's my definition of equity and diversity? I knew what it was, but I wasn't able to articulate it in a way where it's like, you know in sort of that academia space. So-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: I wasn't offered that position right away. But I did have a director at the time of Student Life in Leadership, her name is, Dilcie. Dr. Dilcie Perez. She came up to me and talked to me and was like, “Hey, like, you know you did, you did a good job, but you know there are some things that you could improve on in your interview.” And this, this, and that. And, you know as a, as a seasoned career staff already in the financial industry, it took me off guard that this individual actually provided me feedback. At the moment I was just-- that's interesting. But I really appreciated it after, because, you know, I was getting into a different career essentially, you know-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --because I had quit my full-time job. And then I went into this, in this multicultural education space. Nonetheless, I got the job. I was offered the job shortly after. I sort of was able to sort of articulate a little bit more my passions and my interest for the position. And yeah. So I did that. I was very involved in sort of the, that peer educator, the multicultural teaching work. And I think it was not--it was beneficial for me personally because I was learning firsthand some of these theories and things that were, that were being put into place. And I was sort of like starting to connect dots. ‘Cause I've always, I always knew what this was. I always practiced, you know, inclusivity, but I never was able to put terms to it until when I went into this role as a peer educator. So I would say that my foundation for community-building and community-connecting became stronger and solidified when I was in this role. So once I graduated, I went into become, I became a resident director at San Diego State (University). And I got-- simultaneously, I was working as my master's, my master's program. And so what I did was I was doing a lot of community-connecting. I was overseeing a staff of twenty-two individuals, and I was really building and fostering this inclusive living, working and live and work space at San Diego State. ‘Cause I was overseeing the dorms there. And then I had a staff. So really it, I was putting all my teachings into practice. And so that was, that happened for about five years. Then I transitioned out. and I took a job at Sac(ramento) State (University) as the Associate Director for Student Engagement and Outreach, which sort of aligned really closely with the work that I was already doing, sort of that community connecting, engaging with students, really making them feel belonged and providing events and services that made them feel welcome to campus. Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: So I did that for about a year. And then that was the first time I ever moved out of San Diego State. So I went--actually , I moved back to San Diego, (connection issue) shortly after, not because-- well one, I really didn't like the job and, and sort of its politics, but I was missing home a lot. So I came back and I worked for Barrio Logan College Institute, which was a nonprofit in Barrio Logan. And I was their--I was doing their college and career program there. So, I already had this understanding of like, how the pathways to get into college and, and really was sharing with them sort of their experiences and how to make the most of their experiences at the university level. Being sort of first generation and Latinx backgrounds. And basically teaching them sort of based off of my lived experiences. And then (both laugh) then in 2020, right before I took a job at Sac State, ’cause my husband was actually in Sacramento when I moved out there the first time, he stayed. And so I went back there , and then I took a job in Alumni Relations where I was really fostering relationships with a lot of community members, really doing a lot of philanthropy work, development work and a lot of development work is all relationship building. And I think within this role, you know, as a peer educator, I was building a lot of trust. I was building a lot of relationships with individuals who perhaps didn't understand the concepts or understandings of diversity, equity, and inclusion, but was able to really foster those relationships and really meet them at where they were at. So, we could teach them sort of the importance of that-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --or at least have them hear us out in those spaces. So that was, so that was that. And then, then in 2021, I was--I mean we were all in a pandemic and so we were all sort of at a standstill, but I was sort of, I was sort of recruited into this role that I currently have now . I wasn't job searching, but you know, I had taken a leadership program during COVID(-19) or during quarantine, and my name was sort of thrown out. Somebody invited me out for coffee, offered me this great opportunity that I couldn't pass up because it felt really great, and here I am! (Stanley laughs) And so I've been there almost two years now, come September. It's crazy to even think that I've been in this role for two years and I'm working in broadcasting. But it is something that I never would've thought. But I have never regretted it once and I enjoy it. I've, I've enjoyed it ever since. Stanley: Wow. Well, what a story. (Both laugh) Cabral: Yes. Right. Stanley: Yeah. Could you, could you tell me about your current role, as Community Relations Manager? Cabral: Yeah. So, like you said I'm the current Community Relations Manager at ABC-10 which is--our call letters are KXTV for the broadcast folks out there. But yeah, so we're, ABC-10 is a local, is a Sacramento local news station that broadcasts news for three of the counties here in Northern California: Sacramento County, Modesto (County), and Stockton (County). And my primary role is really--is to be the brand ambassador for my station and for my organization. It's really about going out and infusing myself into the community and really letting people know who we are, what we do, and what we stand for, our brand. I'm sort--I'm housed out of marketing and so a lot of my role is intentional marketing, with a focus of, you know, relationship building. And so I do a lot of the work. I mean, I wish I could say what I do in one sentence, (Stanley laughs) but I feel like I can't-- Stanley: Well. Cabral: --but, Oh, go ahead . Stanley: (unintelligible) Say several sentences (laughs). Cabral: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, essentially, like I said, I'm the brand ambassador. And so what that encompasses is really just, you know, our brand is: we stand--ABC-10, we stand for you. It's really you know, historically, news outlets have always been sort of seen as negative outlets for storytelling. You know with, because we're typically always covering shootings, deaths, killings and things like that. And so we've made it our mission before I even got here--five years ago when we rebranded and we reevaluated our mission and values for the station. We wanted to, we--our organization had committed to making sure that we were the community leader and sharing stories not only in the sense of letting people (be) aware of the things that are happening maybe that are challenging in our communities, but also those things that are elevating and impacting, celebrating the things in our community. So we, so my role is to build those community relationships, that community trust and share with them that, hey, we're looking for community storytelling partners to not only--because again, we're none of us, not a lot of us in the newsroom are from Sacramento. So it's like having somebody tell a story from where you're from and you're like, oh, they don't even know, they don't even know San Diego like that. Right? If for me, I--when I see the news and I'm like, “Why would they call, why would they call it that?” I'm like, that's not Chula Vista. That's, San Ysidro or, this is Escondido not Nor-- whatever, you know, we start to nitpick. And so really, it's about again, that's what we're--we look for storytelling partners to help us tell the stories that are being impacted in the community. The great work that we are doing, the community leaders, how can we highlight them? Because again, we want to change this notion of news to be all negative, and we want it to be both informative but also celebratory as well . Because again we are part of the community. We are, sometimes individuals look at us as the face of the community-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --because they're watching us on the screen. And so what can we do to build that trust and to showcase the greatness that it, that is Sacramento. Stanley: Um-Hm. Would you have any examples of you doing development work or fostering relations? Cabral: Oh my gosh. Yeah (Stanley laughs). So when I was, one that I'm really proud of is that we--so when I first got on in September of last year, shortly after we had, we got--in the news, in the newsroom we get different airtime. And so we have, we had a 6:30 slot. And so we recruited and hired this young woman from Fresno, who's originally from Ohio, lived in L.A., went to Fresno, and then we hired her--her name's Alex Bell--to have her own show. Almost like David, World News, David Muir. And so we wanted to emulate that. And so we hired her, and I was part of her team. And part of her team was to really, we're launching the show from the ground up. We are building content, we are building visuals. So in that process, I was really able to talk about sort of ensuring that, you know, we're looking at this show and the image in a multicultural lens and in an inclusive lens, right? Because if-- Stanley: Yeah Cabral: This is, this gives us a great opportunity to start something that we've never done before. And so, and part of my role too was to be part is, was to be part of that community engagement team with her. So, because I was there and she started in October, I just hit the ground running. So we started in, we started infusing her in the community, really just having her meet some of the community leaders, letting people know, “Hey, we have this show coming, it's launching in August. It's all community driven. It's about story, it's like storytelling and talking about--it's going beyond the headlines of what we're talking about.” And we're doing long segmenting stories about communities, neighborhoods, groups of individuals, advocacy or advocates in our community. And we were able to launch this. And I think what the the thing that I was able to really gauge as a success was once we built these relationships in Aug-- in July, right before the launch of our show in August I was tasked to do sort of like a--not, I wasn't tasked, but I was like, “Hey, you know, we've met with all these individuals. Why don't we start doing a tour of Alex Bell meet and greets. Let's have her, let's have the community members meet the team, meet her, really have them share some of their story ideas.” Because that's what we look for, right? Stanley: Um-hmm. Cabral: Because, like story, we're always getting--we're getting emails constantly about story ideas, of what we could do, what we can cover, good, bad and the ugly. And so we did this. And so I worked with a lot of my community partners that I had fostered and built relationships with. And we were able to do six meet and greets throughout the, without--within the region of Sacramento. So, in Sac(ramento) and Stockton. We had seven meet and greets that were, that when we worked collaboratively, collaboratively with different nonprofit organizations and organizations to really have them. And probably at each event we had about a hundred people attend each of these events. And these are cons--these are constituents, these are our viewers, these are people in the community. People were excited to see this new face. And so, I was able to really create a a marketing campaign to really promote this event, these meet and greets. It's, they called (it), “Alex Bell Meet and Greets.” Because the show is “To the Point With Alex Bell.” So we were able to really home in on our community and lean on them to sort of share this information of the meet and greets. And it was great. (Connection issue ; unintelligible). Stanley: Um-Hm. Oh, oh, oh, no. Pause recording now. There we go. Mute. Please continue. Sorry about that. Cabral: (Connection issue ; unintelligible) We were able to gauge the success was-- (unintelligible) Stanley: Oh, man. Cabral: Yeah. But I mean, I think I sort of just sort of shared sort of what I did and the success it was for our meet and greets at, at the station. And I think it was through those relationships that I was able to build, it was a success. Stanley: Um-Hm. All right. Before we get into your experiences with the Cross-Cultural Center just one more question. What advice would you give someone starting out in the, in a field like community relations? Cabral: Gosh. I mean, I think you have to start, you have to--oh, that's a great question. Stanley: (laughs) All good. Cabral: It has to be, it has to be authentic. I think, you know, in a space where you have to build relationships for--and there is a certain goal in mind, make sure the goal aligns with your values, first off, because I know there's a lot of jobs that are out there that you have to build relationships, whether it's because you have to meet a sales quota or because you're like intentionally and authentically needing a certain thing. Or wanting some sort of reciprocation. And in my situation, you know, the reciprocation is that in hopes that I build relationships, that we see that our community partners will feel welcomed and trusted to share with us the newsroom in, in a time if there ever is a need of some sort. Or they're wanting to help elevate a story or a story pitch. And that aligns with me. I think, you know, I know a lot of sales folks who have to build relationships, but they're building the relationships because they have to get something out of it. And I think that can sometimes be unauthentic or transactional. So--and I'm not saying that that's bad, because, you know, we have a lot of phenomenal sales folks. It just really depends on where your values lie in, in sort. And for me, it was like, “I can't do transactional.” Transactional will be part of a relationship at some point in time, but I can't have it be the sole thing there. It can't be the priority or the priority purpose of my role. So for me, this community piece, when they were just like, “We just need you to build relationships and build trust,” I, when I heard that, I was like, “Absolutely.” And then I, right after that, I asked, “Well, what is your mission and values of the organization? And what are you all trying to accomplish?” And when they shared with me all of those things, I said, okay, that aligns really well with who I am as an individual. So this work is going to seem, I wouldn't say effortless, but it's going to come off a little bit easier for me because this is what I do . This is how I live. I live through authentic connections. Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: Through community building. And so that's, I think that's why I've been able to be so successful with my role. And so to go back to your question, what I, the advice that I give is, you know, if-- just make sure whatever work that you do aligns with your values and that the mission aligns with your values as an individual. Stanley: I like it. I like it (laughs). Cabral: Yep. Stanley: Well, let's get into the meat of the interview. Could you describe the, what the Cross-Cultural Center was like when you initially began engaging with it? Cabral: Yeah. Oh, the Cross-Cultural Center was such a little center. I have not been back since I graduated, but-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --it was a small room, right next to the coffee cart. I don't even know where that's at anymore. But it was a very, very, very small room. And you know, we had a red couch and we had-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --you know, it was just like a little space. And essentially what it was, it was a community space for a lot of our multi-ethnic student organizations. It was a place where we put programming together. We did events. And it was a sub-department of Student Life and Leadership, if you will. Stanley: Um-Hm, yeah. Cabral: At the time we were working, gosh, in between (2011) through (2018), we had--at the time there was some phenomenal directors (in Student Life and Leadership) who worked very close--who built relationships amongst each other, who then really set the example for relationship-building. And so I know Sara Sheikh was like, she was my mentor. I used to see her as a beautiful soul. And as an individual who really, who really, gave me the foundation of who I'm today. And then we had Lea Burgess-Carland, who was the director of the Women's Center, which is now the Gender Equity Center. And I believe there was Roger, who was Roger De Andreas, who was the current Pride (LGBTQA Pride Center) director. And so at the time, those were the only three identity-based centers. And so we sort of had named ourselves the Social Justice Centers. And at the time they were all just very small. We had phenomenal, phenomenal staffing, programming. We were, we all were very collaborative and really--in really educating our campus community about inclusivity of gender equity of LGBT and sexual orientation theory and things of that nature. And so, yeah, it was, I mean, again it was (a) phenomenal time. Those--during that time, it was when I met some of my best friends who are still now my friends. So yeah. So that's a little bit about what that center was when we first got there. Stanley: Well I love hearing about the old red couches (laughter). Been interviewing people, people-- (Both talking) Cabral: --it was like the blue, it was like the Blues Clues couch, I swear. Stanley: (laughs) I heard you say that Sara Sheikh was your mentor. Could you tell me more about her? I actually was going to ask about her. Cabral: Oh, Sara Sheikh, my gosh. Where do I start? Sara Sheikh, she is an absolute beautiful soul. I just--very welcoming, inclusive, meets you where you're at. And I think as a mentor, as someone who had changed their career 100% to get into education I think it's like, there's a saying where there's people in your life that you didn't know you needed until you, until after the fact. And I think Sara Sheikh was that individual, you know as somebody who was closeted, gay, you know at the time that I was working there, she was able to help me embrace who I was as an individual. And to work those challenges out for me, like I said earlier, (connection issue) educating students and doing training and facilitating training. But I was a student as well because I was, as I was learning and teaching, I was learning myself. And I think she, Sara just had this, ugh, I don't know this beautiful aura of like, this, I--it's so hard to explain (Stanley laughs). I, we, I talk to my friends about Sara, and we're just like, “Yo, we miss Sara,” because she's doing her own thing now with her family in Orange County. But it's like, what a beautiful soul she was and is, because (of) her intentionality and the way she taught things and the way she facilitated was just effortless. But I, we knew that either she al--she always had those strengths, or she learned. She learned that, but like how great it was for us to be able to be part of that journey for her and for her to teach us. Because again, when I talk about, you know, my way of facilitating. My way--my active listening skills, my way in approaching things in large group settings and talking about multiculturalism and diversity and equity and inclusion, I embody and sometimes say like, “What would Sara do?” Because essentially it's like she facilitated and had these things with such grace, and never have I met someone else like Sara, like before. I hope you get to interview her, or somebody gets to interview her on sort of the f-- the foundation of what she's left, because, you know, I know her. And those, and the three directors that I mentioned started this social justice, the Social Justice Retreat, which was just absolutely incredible. In, in, in, in, in the time. And, you know, people who attended needed these spaces, needed these awakenings to really, to explore who they were as individuals, who they were as allies, who they were in their current state at that time. So yeah. So that's a little bit about Sara. Stanley: Well, I love that. I think it's pretty, pretty funny that I've interviewed a few people so far (laughs), and they've also called her a beautiful soul and-- Cabral: Aww Stanley: And also said, “What would Sarah do?” (Both laugh) And yeah, I didn't get to interview her, but one of my colleagues did and apparently was an incredible interview. So (laughs). Cabral: Oh God, I would love to hear it. God, I miss her voice so much. Stanley : Well it'll be up in the archives. Once it's up-- Cabral: Yes! Stanely: I'll be happy to send it to you. Yeah. Cabral: Oh my God, if you can, I would love that. Stanley: Perfect. Cabral: I would love it. Stanley: Anyway, continuing on, in what ways did your involvement with the Cross-Cultural Center help you expand and develop as a person? Cabral: Oh Gosh. In what ways? Stanley: Um-hm. Yes. Cabral: Geez. I mean, in every way possible. In any way imaginatory, you know, as I think before I got into the Cross-Cultural Center, I was just living, I don't think I was living authentically. You know, I think--and again--being a closeted man as well-- Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: --as gay Latino, I was, I didn't know where my future was going to go. And I think, you know, again, I didn't know I needed that space until I actually realized it. And once I was in it, or after the fact, and, you know I think being in that space, having Dilcie (Perez) giving me that opportunity to actually be a peer educator too, was beneficial personally and professionally. And I was able to come out as an openly gay man, which is--now I'm happily married and been in my, my relationship with for eight years and. You know, we have a family. And so if--I guess I always question and think about, if I were not in this space, if I was not, if I didn't challenge myself to really dive deep into who I was as an individual, would I be where I'm at today? I don't know. Because, you know--and I was a late--I was a student, I wasn't your traditional quote unquote, “traditionally-aged college student.” You know, I went to community college for five years. I was already in my career in the finance industry. And so when I was at Cal State San Marcos, I was working with a lot of folks who had just graduated high school, but I was already in my mid-twenties. And so, you know, I was in my mid-twenties, didn't know who I was as--I knew who I was as individual, as an individual, but I wasn't able to live it authentically. And so being in this space, being in this role (at the Cross-Cultural Center), having mentors who are just like, “I am out and proud and this is who I am,” empowered me to be that. Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: And so for that I'm forever grateful. And which--and I think--which is why I made it a service of mine to live authentically, and to embrace, and to embrace who I am as an individual of my multiple identities that I have in hopes that I can too empower the youth, the--those new newly admitted college students or even adults, you know? And so, and I do have people time and time again, say like, “Wow, Gerardo you, I love how you just live authentically,” or I love how just authentic you are. And I was like, “That is, that is the only way you should live.” While I'm privileged to be able to live that way, you know, I know not everybody is. And so, it's, it's yeah. So I think to answer your question on how it's, how being in this space and in this role has changed me: I think it's changed me 100% of who I am today. And how--and the success of my career and personally and even the success within familial relationships, because I never had the tools of how to speak to my parents on who I was as an individual. How was I gonna come out to my parents and tell them? And, you know, through these facilitation courses, of training that I went through and these activism skills, I was able to come out to my parents in a way that, you know, I was able to help them understand too. And I gave them grace too, because they don't know any of sort of like the lingo that we talk about in academia (Stanley laughs), you know, because they don't have an (connection Issue ; inaudible)-- they for me to talk about equity and belonging and inclusivity, like none of that. They don't understand any of that. So I really had to be able to formulate words to where I was able to meet them where they're at and tell them how I appreciate them accepting me for who I am and having those difficult conversations. So I think it just, and my experience has, has impacted every aspect of my life. Stanley: Well, that's fantastic. I'm glad that the CCC really helped you in that way. I guess on the, on the flip side, oh (laughs), on the flip side of that question I would, I would ask how did the Cross-Cultural Center help you develop as a professional? Cabral: How did they how did the CCC-- (connection issue ; inaudible) Stanley: CCC help you develop as a professional? Cabral: Great question. I mean as a professional, I was able to navigate certain spaces with--you know--at the end of the day, we were a department of Student Life and Leadership. There were processes, protocols in place that we needed to follow, and so (connection issue ; audio cut)-- worked for other organizations and the finance industry. And so I knew protocol of like working, I knew expectations of the workplace. I knew the consequences or the repercussions if: should I not show up to work? Should I not turn in my timecard on time? Should I not follow procedures? I already knew what those, what those actions (connection Issue ; inaudible). So I felt, you know, I took this job extremely seriously already. I think it just helped me more so--be more confident in having conversations regarding these topics of multicultural education and in the DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) space. Stanley: All right. Well so you said yeah, co-- just more confidence. Yeah. Cabral: Yeah, I would say so. Stanley: Hmm. We're, we're winding down here. Let me ask you, what would maybe be your favorite memory from the Cross-Cultural Center? Or just a memory, if you can't think of a specific one? Cabral: Oh (Stanley laughs). What was a favorite memory? Stanley: Yeah. Cabral: Oh my gosh (Stanley laughs). There's so many. And I would have to say, my experience at the Social Justice Summit. Stanley: Okay. Cabral: You know, it was a weekend, a weekend retreat. And you know, you were committing to put yourself in a 100% vulnerable space. And I think for me it was great. You know, different types of life, like walks of life, walk into that room and be vulnerable and have those conversations and see the light bulbs. I saw the light bulbs myself, for myself. I saw them with others, and just the space that we were able to create that that they created of leaders, because I was a participant the first year, and then the next year I was a facilitator. And forever I (connection Issue ; audio cut)-- we, we helped facilitate and work with young leaders who wanted to explore their identities and this, (connection Issue ; audio cut)-- I would say. Then the other one sort-- (connection Issue ; unintelligible). Can you hear me? Stanley: Oh hi, sorry. It, it, it cut out a little, but I (both talking) heard, I heard mostly-- Cabral: Oh yeah. Stanley: You said-- Cabral: Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. Stanley: Were, were you finished with your thought? I'm sorry about that. Cabral: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did. Stanley: Okay. And I'll wrap up the interview. I like to ask this one, this last question. What role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with the expansion of identity-specific spaces? Spaces like the Latin
/x Center or the Black Student Center, places like that? Cabral: Oh, gosh. I mean that's a hard (connection issue ; inaudible) (question) for me to answer because I've seen the value of cross-cultural center spaces in various different campuses, and I've been part of those conversations as well at other campuses. But I also see the value of identity-specific centers and and some--the concern always comes up in these conversations at other institutions about, “Well, where does that lead to Cross-Culture Center?” Right? Because now that we've expanded into all these identity-based centers, what is now the purpose for the Cross-Culture Center? And to be completely honest, for me it's hard to answer because I'm just, I'm not entirely sure, because before we were a space where all identities and all ethnic groups were welcome then now that there are these spaces specific to these ethnic groups, like I'm, I'm curious. And again, I leave that up to that--the folks in academia and student affairs folks, because again, I'm not saying that it should be, like we should, we should remove them. I'm just curious as to how--I'm excited to see how we--we, because I feel like I'm sort of in an academia space still, but like how academia or the university sees this: the (Cross-Cultural) Center moving forward in a time where there's now a need for these ethnic spaces. So I am not entirely sure. What I hope is that, you know we are like, in an ideal world, I would love for the Cross-Cultural Center to be its own division, and then have the ethnic centers be within the Cross-Cultural Center. You know, because, you know, we--and then have the work talk about sort of that intersectionality piece of it all, of, of--with the Pride Center, with the LGBT Center, with the Gender Equity Center and things of that nature, because I think they all coexist together. And they all intersect, but it's like, how do we make sure that we intentionally do programming? And that's what that's what happened. You know, back in--when we were there, our directors made it a point that we did programs and we had assigned teams. So, you know, one member from the Cross-Cultural Center, from the Women's Center, and from the Pride Center would work on one program, and we had to make sure that we were being intentional with intersecting those identities to include as many diverse individuals as possible. And looking at it through different lenses. You know, because we're like, just because we're (connection Issue ; audio cut)-- So, like, we were always making sure that we're trying to like build those, those identities there. Stanley: Hm. All right. Well, yeah I ask that question to every interview(ee), and they do say a lot of similar things. The intentionality is what they always say. It's like they need to know what they're going to do with the center sort of thing. So thank you so much, Gerardo, for coming and I'll inter--, end the interview here. Cabral: Alright, Seth, thank you so much for your time and I look forward to, yeah, once you're done, please send, send that link over. I would love to listen to other folks. Stanley: (Laughs) I'm gonnna stop the recording here. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en audio Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives
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Cabral, Gerardo. Interview April 28th, 2023.
Description
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Gerardo Cabral is a California State University San Marcos alumnus. He graduated with his Bachelors of Business degree in 2011. Gerardo worked at the Cross-Cultural Center from 2008-2011. In this interview, Cabral discusses how the Cross-Cultural Center was a space that cultivated and enriched self-identity. It provided not only students with a voice but Cabral to begin living his true authentic life.
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SC027-36
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Broadcast journalism
California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
LGBTQ+ life
Education, Higher
Human rights
Student success
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2023-04-28
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audio
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Gerardo Cabral
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Seth Stanley
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Sacramento (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Gerardo Cabral
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Latine experience
LGBTQIA+ experience
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Oral Histories
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Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched.
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Oral History
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Interviewer
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Michael De Maria
Interviewee
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Daniela Carreon
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=CarreonDaniela_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-06.xml
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5.4 Carreon, Daniela. Interview April 6th, 2023. SC027-40 00:46:15 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history was made possible in collaboration with the Cross-Cultural Center and with generous funding from the Instructionally Related Activities fund. csusm California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center ; California State University San Marcos. Kamalayan Alliance ; California State University San Marcos. Ethnic Studies ; California State University San Marcos. Events and Conference Services ; Civil rights ; Encinitas (Calif.) ; Escondido (Calif.) ; Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán ; Student movements ; Psychic trauma Daniela Carreon Michael De Maria CarreonDaniela_DeMariaMichael_2023-04-06.mp4 1:|16(2)|30(3)|38(15)|55(2)|67(12)|87(5)|106(2)|116(9)|141(4)|157(13)|168(9)|192(8)|202(13)|225(3)|254(2)|265(12)|275(9)|285(8)|302(2)|320(2)|332(16)|348(4)|358(8)|367(6)|377(7)|393(12)|405(10)|415(9)|424(7)|435(8)|457(10)|468(15)|482(6)|509(7)|521(16)|530(14)|547(2)|557(3)|570(11)|583(5)|596(8)|616(2)|628(14)|654(5)|666(17)|680(10)|694(5) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/7a398a04e0a57b5ef9c910c7403f33fc.mp4 Other video English 0 Carreon's Background Michael De Maria introduces Daniela Carreon to speak about her experiences with the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM. To begin, Carreon speaks to her background growing up Escondido and going to school in Encinitas. She explains the differing demographics and what it was like as a Latina attending a predominately affluent and White school. 0 227 Pathway to CSUSM From her earlier educational experience, Daniela explains her reasoning for attending CSUSM. She explains not wanting to attend another PWI (Predominantly White Institution), such as Sonoma State. Instead, Carreon chose to attend the ethnically and economically diverse CSUSM. Regarding personal growth, Carreon considered this one of her best decisions. 0 384 Becoming Involved with the Cross-Cultural Center Through a first-year general education course, Carreon first became aware of the CCC. For a class assignment, she interviewed former CCC director Floyd Lai. Through Carreon's work with MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán), Carreon began mentoring incoming freshman, and later applied to become the center's social media manager. 0 494 Earlier CCC Development Carreon recalls the CCC when she first began her involvement, when programs such as Critical Cougars and the Activist Lab were not yet implemented. As social media manager, Carreon's role focused on outreach and promotion of educational imagery ; an education that came from political unlearning, which Carreon speaks about later on. 0 570 Relationship Between the CCC and Other Student Organizations Through her role as a social media manager at the CCC, and her work with MEChA, Carreon remembers the solidarity between student organizations. From simply sharing the space together, to actively supporting the Kamalyan Alliance (Filipino student organization) and their initiatives. 0 681 Student and Professional Staff Carreon remembers her relationship with CSUSM employees, including Floyd Lai and Shannon Nolan. Carreon recounts assisting with program development, and recalls helping student programmers the most, particularly with event set-up and overall organization. As a previous programmer herself, Carreon was able to mentor several incoming programmers at the CCC. 0 809 Programs at the CCC Carreon recalls the different programs that the Cross-Culutral Center has offered. From her first two Social Justice Summits, to the Activist Lab, Daniela was engaged with several forms of activism and advocacy at CSUSM. Within these programs, she recalls the politically engaging conversations which considered such topics as anti-Blackness, white supremacy, and what abolitionism truly looks like. Overall, the CCC provided Carreon the ability to engage with other student activists. 0 1133 Favorite Memories and Political Unlearning Carreon recalls some of her favorite memories during her work at the Cross-Cultural Center. In particular, Carreon enjoyed getting one her friends memorialized with artwork at the CCC. Additionally, De Maria revisits the idea of political unlearning and what that meant for Carreon. Carreon recalls that the CCC provided the space to engage with conversations about gentrification, colonialism, and the intersectionality of feminism. 0 1510 Carreon's Studies at CSUSM Considering the amount of interests she had, Carreon had a hard time finding a major. She initially chose sociology for its adaptability. However once Ethnic Studies was approved as a major at CSUSM, Daniela realized this avenue best fit her intended future work. The experience of taking courses for the major was difficult, yet Carreon was glad to have declared Ethnic Studies as a major. 0 1826 CCC Impacts and Role with Other Organizations De Maria asks Carreon about the overall impacts of the CCC upon her life. Regarding cultural identity, Carreon considers her time at the CCC to have enabled her unapologetic attitude. Additionally, the Carreon considers the CCC's role with other student centers/organizations on campus. 0 2053 Underrepresented Communities at CSUSM Carreon considers currently underrepresented communities at CSUSM, including Indigenous American Indians as well as Asian Pacific Islander Desi American (APIDA) students who rely upon the CCC. Carreon discusses how CSUSM underestimated the extent to which students would engage with identity-based centers. 0 2171 Carreon's Career Ambitions As a doctoral student, Carreon defines her work and her future ambitions. This includes her research upon the impacts of trauma, specifically among Latinas. Through this work, she considers the idea of embracing joy even through traumatic moments. She hopes to continue this profound work and because of her experience at CSUSM, she would choose to apply in the future. Additionally, De Maria inquires about the challenges of utilizing quantitative data while maintaining humanistic qualities in research.
 ; 0 2617 Wrapping Up with Important Lessons Carreon discusses her biggest takeaways from her experience working with the Cross-Cultural Center. Carreon also realized her ability to disengage from potentially harmful conversations. Daniela expresses gratitude to the CCC for reinforcing the ability to walk away from difficult conversations. 0 Daniela Carreon is alumna of California State University San Marcos, where she worked with the Cross-Cultural Center (CCC) and other student organizations such as MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan). In this interview, Daniela discusses her involvement with the CCC, campus changes, and her current work & ; goals as a sociology PhD student. De Maria: Alright. My name is Michael De Maria. I am a graduate research assistant at Kellogg Library at CSU (California State University) San Marcos. And today I'm interviewing Daniela Carreon about her involvement with the Cross-Cultural Center as a student staff member and a student on campus at CSU San Marcos. So, Daniela first off, I just wanted you to tell me a little bit about your upbringing, your background. I wanted you to tell me about your community that you were brought up in and a little bit about your childhood. Carreon: Okay. So, I grew up in Escondido, which is a very heavily populated Latino, Latinx community and an immigrant community. And so, sorry (laughs). So, yeah. But I went to school in Encinitas, and so Encinitas is probably about a thirty-minute drive, adjacent city. It's probably, yeah so it's a definitely more affluent and White community. And so, growing up in two cities, right, because I went to school in Encinitas but I was, my home life was in Escondido, I was often brought into like two different worlds. And not really knowing how to navigate either. And so yeah (laughs). De Maria: Perfect. And what would you describe those two worlds as in terms of characterization? Carreon: So, as far as characterization. Sorry (laughs). So, both worlds were definitely very different. As far as growing up in Escondido, I would characterize it as more low income, more people of color, more sense of community. And I'm thinking of community as far as like Latino-based, you know, community places. Specifically like, grocery stores or churches or just like where there's a higher population of Latinos. Whereas in Encinitas it was whiteness all throughout. There were pockets of like Latino people, but very, very small. And so I would characterize going to school in Encinitas as a lot more--I had to really integrate myself into the education system. I always had to behave. I also had to just, it almost felt like I was--I was often the only student of color, the only Latina Chicana Mexican woman, or a little girl in the class. And so, I think I felt the need to present myself to be the model for my community. So that is a lot of pressure for someone (laughs). And I felt the pressure through like my interactions with students, or even with my teachers, and like higher expectations from teachers who were Mexican. So yeah. De Maria: Got it. That is definitely really profound to deal with at a young age, for sure. So regarding your experience in those different communities, what led you to CSUSM (California State University San Marcos)? Carreon: What led me to CSUSM? Actually (I) did not wanna go to Cal State San Marcos (laughs). I also got into Sonoma State and I really wanted to, you know, leave. Because I felt like, okay, I've grown up in this vicinity. And actually my high school was very much--they never took us to Cal State San Marcos. I was an AVID (Advancement Via Individual Determination, college-readiness program) student for, from seventh grade to twelfth grade. They never took us to Cal State San Marcos. I had never even seen the campus until me and my mom drove by it when we, when I like accepted. But before that, I had never been on campus until like, I had to go for summer courses. So yeah, I did not wanna go to Cal State. I felt like it was going to be like high school because I'm going to class and I'm going home. So it was definitely like, how do I differentiate my experience from being just from high school? And so I was going to commit to Sonoma State, and I was trying to figure out my financial aid situation. And, you know I was gonna have to take out a student loan my first semester. (minor background noise) And I remember talking to the financial aid person and I just told her like, what is the population? I'm sorry if you can hear that (background noise). It was just like (laughs). De Maria: Totally fine. You're all good. Carreon: Yeah, so I remember asking her a question like, “What are the demographics of the students?” And during that time, I mean yeah the--you know we didn't have like TikTok, or Instagram wasn't as popularized. Snapchat was there, but not really. So there wasn't a lot of like social media digging that I could do based on the population for the students. I kind of just had to base it from what the website would say. And she told me, “You know a lot of the students here (at Sonoma State) are White, affluent, their, some of their parents own a lot of the wine countries.” And I was like, I don't really wanna be surrounded by whiteness or affluent, you know, people anymore. So, I decided to commit to San Marcos and it ended up being one of the best decisions I made. Not only financially, but I think just in personal growth, so. De Maria: Got it. And once you got to CSUSM, how did you become aware of and involved with the Cross-Cultural Center? Carreon: Yeah. So, in GEL (General Education for first-year students) like I don't remember what it stands for (laughs) but it's one of the introductory courses. I was an EOP (Education Opportunity Program) student as well, so I think that helped. But in the EOP class we had to, one of our assignments through GEL it was EOP (and) GEL together. We had to like, find a campus resource center or whatever and interview someone who worked there. So, I had emailed Floyd (Lai ; Director of the Cross-Cultural Center, 2011-2023) and he doesn't remember, but I did interview him like my first semester. And I think that was like my first integration to the Cross-Cultural Center. And also, I was also involved in MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan). So I think that was also one of the ways that I was able to be involved. And Floyd had reached out, I think to our MEChA co-chairs and for the peer mentoring program for summer 2015, to be a mentor to incoming freshmen. So, I did that. And then through that Lloyd, I think SLL, which was Student Life and Leadership which is now SLIC (Student Leadership & ; Involvement Center). And C3 or Cross-Cultural Center, like were together (laughs). So, they were hiring for the fall 2015 semester. So, I applied as social media slash administration. So yeah, (laughs). De Maria: Awesome. And could you describe what the Cross-Cultural Center was like when you first started engaging with it and working for (inaudible interruption). Carreon: Yeah so, oh wait, when I first started to, like, what was it-- De Maria: Like when you first started to engage and work for the org? Carreon: Yeah. When I first started to engage for the Cross-Cultural Center it was definitely I think more, we didn't have like specific programs as far as like there was no Critical Cougars or Defining Diaspora or Activist Lab (programs and spaces within the Cross-Cultural Center). I think it was more so our general interests. And I wasn't a programming person, so I didn't--I wasn't really involved in that. My role was just like social media and administration. And so, what I did through social media was kind of just posting things that fell along the mission of the Cross-Cultural Center and more like educational based images. And I think that was also just my own--I did it because I was also in this like political learning and unlearning through myself. So I think I used the Cross-Cultural Center as an outlet and also to educate others. De Maria: Yeah, for sure. And you've mentioned your involvement in MEChA already so, I wanted to just ask you what the relationships were like between on-campus organizations at that time. Especially the Cross-Cultural Center's relationship to other student advocacy groups like MEChA or the Black Student Union. Carreon: Yeah, yeah. We did work, I think with also KA, Kamalyan Alliance (Filipino & ; Filipino-American student organization). I think a lot of it was supporting them in their own initiatives of like what they wanted to do for campus. So whether it was, like our high school conference, I remember Floyd would let us use the Cross-Cultural Center to like put all of our things (inside) before like campus events. Afterwards, this was probably like two or three years afterwards, campus events (Events and Conference Services) let us use like their stuff, or how to lock up our things. And like printing, I think also like just like some funding if possible. And also just being kind of like an advocate for when or how we would've planned things. I think during that time Floyd was like the Multicultural (Programs) Students, like Rep(resentative). So I think there was a good sense of like alliance or community I think now has switched over, or at least it's switched over I think later on (laughs). To like, I think someone in SLL. So, yeah. De Maria: I see. Very cool. And student staff have often been mentioned as sort of like a catalyst behind the Cross-Cultural Center's general success. So I just wanted to know what your relationship was like between you and your superiors? Carreon: Student staff, or do you mean like pro staff (professional non-student employees) Or-- De Maria: Or both. Excuse me. Carreon: Oh, my relationship with pro staff I think was good (laughs). They made, I think I interacted the most with like Floyd and whoever was in that office next to him. So whether it was the graduate assistant, or later it was (professor) Shannon Nolan who, I don't remember her exact position. But she worked a lot with TLC, Tukwut Leadership Circle (CSUSM engagement program). And then, you know, we would cross over with like SLL professionals, but it was rare to have one-on-one meetings with them. I think when I was more so a graduate assistant, I worked more closely with the director of the Latino (Latin
/X) Center and the Black Student Center, and the Pride Center, I think that was more aligned (laughs). And, you know, working together looked like being on committees together, program development, also working with their graduate assistants. And then working at least with like student staff was always a relatively good experience. I think we always try to help each other out in whatever avenue. I think it was, I think programmers always need the most amount of help (laughs) especially with like setting up, taking down, like publicizing, practicing you know their PowerPoint (presentation program) or asking how they should outline it. So, I was a programmer for two years, so, afterwards a lot of incoming or newer programmers would come to me to see what I would do, or how I would structure things. So I think just more so looking for advice or validation. De Maria: Very cool. And one thing you've touched on multiple times is obviously the importance of those programs as a way that (the) Cross-Cultural Center really got out to students and kind of affected people's lives. Regarding those programs, did you have any involvement with the Cross-Cultural Summit as well as Café La Paz? Those are two programs which seem to have been coming up quite frequently in my previous interviews, so I— (Carreon interrupts ; two speakers) Carreon: Yeah you said, you said Social Justice Summit (diversity and activism event at CSUSM)? De Maria: Yes. Carreon: Yes. Social Justice Summit. I went to, to the Social Justice Summit when I was a freshman. So, that was also I guess my introduction to Floyd (laughs). So that was like fall 2014. And then I think I was a facilitator fall 2016, and either 2019 or 2018. So I was a facilitator for like two different periods. I'd never experienced Café La Paz (laugh). De Maria: Okay. Got it. Cool. And what were some instances of activism that you observed from the Cross-Cultural Center during the time that you were there? And I know that you were, you know serving positions as both an undergraduate and a graduate assistant as well. Carreon: Mm-hmm. De Maria: But yeah, if you could just take me through some initiatives that you guys launched or maybe some moments of activism you felt were pretty memorable. Carreon: Mm-Hmm. Trying to think. So moments of activism. Well, I mean the Activist Lab was really a kickstart to our, us being intentional of like having activist programs. And I think that came from the rise of like the Black Lives Matter movement and just what was going on politically. Also with like DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), Trump being (in) administration and like more and more people being involved or wanting to be involved in community. So, I know we had like a Know Your Rights (political advocacy presentation) session and I know we had different like avenues of how to be an activist, cause it doesn't always have to be like out in the streets. I think some of the other initiatives of activism, or at least like intentional activism that I would say, is during the covid pandemic there was, we couldn't do Social Justice Summit. And so it was like, when was this fall twenty, fall 2020? Yeah. ‘Cause I graduated Spring 2021. So, I remember during the fall semester I really wanted to do something called Social Justice Scholars (CSUSM undergraduate social justice program). So (laughs), it was, for me it was more of an intentional group of like eight to ten students. And we were going to have conversations that kind of delved in a little deeper. Like, topics like what does it mean to defund the police? What does abolition, abolition look like? What is an abolitionist framework? Conversation circling like transphobia and anti-Blackness. And for me I think those conversations gave, or that specific--like Social Justice Scholars, which I think still continues to today, provides students who want to be, who wanna just know more in a safe and brave environment. I never had, I didn't have--well I only did it for a semester (laughs) until I graduated. But I think it allows or gives students a space, and there was nothing else on campus on it during that time. And I think also the conversations that I wanted to talk about are very political in nature (laughs), just like any other program that I put on, a lot of them were very political. So, I think the Cross-Cultural Center steering that was very one political in nature, but also just very quote unquote ahead of its’ times because were-- conversations circling like, what does it mean to defund the police and what does abolition mean? And talking about anti-Blackness as global and white supremacy are things that sometimes are hidden or want to be hidden within academia, or/and especially student affairs (laughs). So, I think those are some of the things. But as far as other avenues of activism, would be just inviting more speakers who have an activist framework. And I think paying speakers obviously as well is within itself doing activist work. De Maria: Absolutely. And those programs sound absolutely incredible (laughs). So very cool that you were involved with those and got to experience them and see firsthand what kind of impact they had. And from there I just wanted to ask you what your favorite memory from the Cross-Cultural Center was? Carreon: Mmmm. My favorite memory? I have a couple. Do I have to choose one? De Maria: You could talk about it, you could talk about a couple. I don't mind. Carreon: Oh, okay (laughs). I think one of the favorite, one of my favorite, I had always told Floyd, we need more we need more like art (laughs) in the space. So I think definitely the mural that's now in the center. It took about almost, it took a long time to do (laughs), but it took about like maybe six months, a semester to really you know, paint everything, have it installed. So I think that was one of the favorite memories. And also having like my friends be a part of it. My friend is actually the one that's like hugging himself, (laughs) and he was never really involved in campus until he met me, so it's kind of funny to see now he's memorialized on the wall forever (laughs). I think one of my also favorite parts was doing Social Justice Scholars. I think it was also my last semester. I was writing my thesis. I think it was very like cathartic healing. Every two weeks we would meet with students and, you know I'm really glad that they were able to connect with us, and also collaborating with the Latino (Latin
/X) Center and the Gender Equity Center or the Women and Gender Equity Center. And like Alicia and Laura, because they also like worked, worked on workshops. And what else is my favorite memories? I think like the day-to-day stuff of hanging out with some of my student staff. Those were probably some of my say, good memories. Yeah. (laughs) De Maria: Very fun. And I wanted to go back to something that you mentioned earlier in the, in the interview regarding you kind of mentioned a political unlearning process that you were undertaking during the time that you were at the Cross-cultural Center and that the organization kind of helped you process your way through that. And basically find a sense of enlightenment about it. So I just wanted to ask about that once again, since you have mentioned putting on like political programs and kind of making politics sort of like a focal point of the conversation about social justice. But if you felt comfortable, I'd love to hear a little bit more about what that political unlearning process was like and specifically how the Cross-Cultural Center kind of helped you become aware of it and embark on that journey. Carreon: Yeah. I think my political process of unlearning started with the murder of Mike Brown. So, it was 2014 and I was an incoming freshman. And so, a lot of it was social media at that time, ‘cause I didn't work at the Cross-Cultural Center. So, it was like Twitter and Instagram and Tumblr where I was really in this unlearning phase. And even then I've become a lot more radical in my beliefs. But back then I was eighteen (laughs). So and I was, you know, I was learning. And so it was an adjustment. I think what the Cross-Cultural Center gave me was an outlet to have conversations with people. And I think it's funny because now I'm in my pro--my PhD program in sociology. And I remember always telling Floyd like, “I don't know if I wanna be a professor or if I wanna work like with youth.” Because I was also a middle school AVID tutor during some time I was working at the center. And I think my desire to have critical conversations and help people or advocate for people, listen to people differing opinions of topics is what makes me want to be a sociology professor. And some of my programs, they were all political. I don't think they had to do with like, well they had to do with politics, but it didn't center on politics or policy. I think the first program that I ever did was what it means to be American. But I'm also like, it's been so long (laughs). But I had programs having to do unpacking, like Beyonce's Lemonade album or talking about Kendrick Lamar's album at that time and collaborating with the Black Student Center. I also had programs about gentrification and colonialism, and topics on racism and classism. I also had like the “in” in feminism, like what is like intersection, the intersectionality in feminism. Cause feminism is very, could be very White. So collaborating with like Pride (Center), and I remember I collaborated with the sociology professor at that time as well. So I think my unlearning through the center was topics that I just wanted to talk about (laughs) cause I had my own vested interest in them, but also, who else could I collaborate with? I think that was where the Cross-Cultural Center possibly got more view or more like, “Oh, they're collaborating with other people and like inviting professors and faculty to join us in conversations.” And/or other student organizations and student centers. So. De Maria: For sure. That's awesome. And next I wanted to shift a little bit and actually talk about your studies at CSUSM. I know that you're one of the first graduates of the Ethnic Studies program, so I was interested in hearing more about kind of like the early days of that program and ultimately, you know, how that influenced your current career track and what you're interested in studying. Carreon: Yeah. So I remember it was my EOP, name was Kyle, I think he's at Palomar (College in San Marcos, CA) now. Kyle Owens. Yeah. He, I didn't know what I wanted to do (laughs). I had so many vested interests. I remember I came in as a psych(ology) major and then I changed to poli sci (political science) ‘cause I really was in this unlearning process and I'm like, “I wanna work for the government and change things.” And quickly did I learn, no, I'm just kidding. (laughs). But yeah, quickly did I learn. And then I switched it again and then I was just kind of everywhere. And I remember Kyle Owens told me about like social sciences and how I can have like three degrees in one. And I was like, oh, okay. So my primary focus was sociology. And then my secondary fields are political science and psych. So I had to take a wide variety of classes. And I also decided to minor in Spanish ‘cause I passed the AP exam in high school and I was like, “Oh, I only, I only need four classes. Okay, cool.” And I think I just, I remember I took Dr. (Michelle) Holling communication 485, like Latino Chicano Representation in TV. And that really sparked my interest in wanting to go to grad school. And having her be part of my life and mentorship during that period, that was 2018, fall 2018. And she had told us like, that ethnic studies had been approved through the CSU Chancellor's Office, but it's gonna take a year for it to like, you know, be in place. And during that time I was supposed to graduate. I think it was, I was supposed to, oh no, that was fall 2017 when I took her class. And I was supposed to graduate fall 2018, but I just didn't feel, or spring 2018, and I didn't feel ready to graduate in four years. So that's when I picked up my minor in Spanish. And then I had met with her, and she gave me different courses that would qualify me to be like, that were going to be part of the courses for Ethnic Studies. So, I just started taking extra courses to fulfill the major that still hadn't existed (laughs). So I was taking like five classes. I took a class at Palomar because I had to take Ethnic Studies 101 and SOC (Sociology) 101 already had qualified or, you know fulfilled my other requirements. So it couldn't fulfill this one. So I had to go to Palomar and take Multicultural 101 (laughs) Multicultural Studies 101. And then I took, when did I graduate? Spring 2019. I took seven classes, and a grad course including that one. Just, just for fun (laughs). But really just to fulfill the, the major requirements. And I remember there was a period of time where once the major had been approved December 2018, I was told that I couldn't do it (laughs). Because I had reached, I couldn't declare the major because they said that I had passed the 120 credits or something like that. And I remember talking to Dr. Holling and other people in CHABSS (College of Humanities, Arts, Behavioral & ; Social Sciences) was like, and I told them, “Well, I've been taking these classes because it fulfills the major” (laughs). So like, why can't--so they did some, some work in the backend and I was able to declare it I think within like two weeks. And then I graduated in the spring semester. So I wish I was--the only ethnic studies course I did take at Cal State San Marcos, like through the Ethnic Studies major was Ethnic Studies 301. So I had already taken Ethnic Studies 101 as Multicultural Studies at Palomar, so I didn't have to take it again. But I wasn't able to take theory or I think at that time they had like three or four other integral, integral classes that students would take. But Dr. Holling was able to just sign off. So. De Maria: I see. So my next set of questions are going to be more about the impact of the Cross-Cultural Center on your life. So a little bit more abstract. But yeah, I just wanted to know how the Cross-Cultural Center ultimately helped you develop and express your cultural identity in the long run? Carreon: Hmm. Express my cultural identity in the long run, you mentioned? Like- De Maria: Yeah. Carreon: I feel like for me, I've never been like super loud about my culture. I just kind of exist (laughs). I think the culture more so is being like outspoken and being, and like asking questions and asking critical questions and sometimes making people feel uncomfortable with my questions or my beliefs or ideas. So I think that's the legacy of like what the Cross-Cultural Center has provided me. And I've, I've gotten better. I remember Floyd always told me I'm not who I was before (laughs). And I think that's the culture that I still lead with, of just like being unapologetically myself. De Maria: Okay, I see. And regarding the Cross-Cultural Center as it is today, what role do you see it playing as it coexists with the expansion of other identity-specific student advocacy orgs? So, like as other organizations expand, I guess like what do you hope to see out of those relationships? What role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing in those expansions? Carreon: Mm-Hmm. For me, I think the Cross-Cultural Center has tried to fill in the gaps of CSU’s, CSUSM’s like limitation in student centers. So specifically for like Asian Pacific Islander students, we have like the Defining Diaspora (CSUSM student workshops) and specific programs. But say like, you know, if the--if Cal State San Marcos approves for an Asian Pacific Islander Center, I think the role of the Cross-Cultural Center would shift obviously. But I feel like we have, we, or they have worked hard enough to make themselves a distinction between all the other centers, specifically with like Critical Cougars, the Activist Lab and Academe and Me. So, as of, I mean I haven't been at Cal State for two years. De Maria: Right. Yeah. Carreon: So, I don’t know what the other student centers are doing. But I think that the Cross-Cultural Center, because it's not specifically identity-based, can mold itself to different things. And it's both a, a challenge and an opportunity (laughs) because it's like, what are, what can, what else can we do or how can we do it? But it gives us the space to do it. So. De Maria: Got it. Carreon: I dunno if that answered your question, (laughs). De Maria: No, no it did (laughs). And regarding the CCC (Cross-Cultural Center) and its interaction with the student community, what communities on this, on CSUSM’s campus, do you feel are currently underrepresented? Carreon: I mean, indigenous students, I think they’re still less than 1% of CSUSMs, like total student population. I know that the California Indian Cultural Sovereignty Center, and the American Indian major and I think minor, correct me if I'm wrong, you know they're there. But from my understanding, it's they have and the, oh my gosh, AISA, American Indian Student Alliance. I don't know how like, if they're still present. But that was always a factor of how can we bring in conversations, or how can we connect with more indigenous scholars and students. And obviously the population of Black students is still probably, what, three percent? And also like what is Black faculty or administrators, what is the percentage of that? It’s probably lower. And I mean, I know that the DREAMer Resource Office (programs and services for undocumented students) is still on campus. I'm not sure if they're in the same location. I worked at the DREAMer Resource office for about a year and a half, and it was a--it was small (laughs). So, I think, you know, bigger spaces, I don't think Cal State San Marcos really anticipated for how much student centers, or the need for student centers. But yeah. De Maria: Yeah, absolutely. And next I wanted to talk about a little bit about your current career. So I know that you're currently pursuing a doctorate, and have some aspirations to go into education yourself. But did you wanna also talk about kind of what you hope to achieve in the social justice space with your platform and kind of what some of those aspirations are? Carreon: Yeah. So my career goal (laughs), I guess is, yeah, per- like finish my PhD. I do want to go back to the CSU system. I would love to go back to Southern California. If, you know, Cal State San Marcos is hiring at the time, I will be applying. Or even San Diego State or any other like, you know, nearby college. My research interests right now center among understanding and examining the experiences of Latina women undergoing cancer treatment. And I am really interested in this process of emotions and looking at like joy and grief. And I'm looking and I'm wanting to look at identity adjustments, then identity disruption, and identity development through the process of, of cancer. And then the component of familial and community care, and possibly death and dying. But I'm still working through like the nuances of my project. And so, what I hope to accomplish at least with that--and I don't know what my unit of analysis will be like, whether it's going to be like the cancer patient or if it's going to be more so like the family. But something that I've always wanted to do, and this, it's similar to my work that I did for my master's thesis. cause for my master's thesis, I looked at like the mothering experiences of single immigrant Latina mothers, and like their relationship with their children. And so I'm really into this aspect of like emotions and processing and trauma. I think my next, once I graduate and if I have a book contract, I think my book would really center on emotions and care and like healing from intergenerational trauma or death. So I think that's my component to social justice, especially tapping into this concept of joy. I think sometimes in movements, and this is what I've learned through my unlearning process through like Twitter, is that joy needs to be a constant presence in our lives. In constant oppression and marginalization and racism and homophobia and classism, we still have and will need space to practice joy. And joy doesn't always have to be like this grand thing. And that's kind of what I'm hoping to look at in my project with women undergoing cancer. It's like, did I wake up with no pain? Am I able to, you know, eat my favorite meal? Am I able to enjoy time with my family? I think I'm, I'm thinking of joy as more little things. And I think that's also what social justice movements are now more embracing. Specifically I know like the, the concept of Black joy and reading of articles of within people who are trans, and what does trans joy look like? So I think that's kind of possibly what the conversation will transition into, especially when we have been healing through so much. And I say “we” as like marginalized and minoritized communities, especially during the COVID Pandemic, the Black Lives Matter movement, and all these other things that are going on. And it's like, how do we still, how do we still practice joy? And I think maybe, you know, social media played a tool, especially like TikTok and people dancing on TikTok while there was a COVID pan- like while there was a pandemic and thousands of people were dying, and we still found moments to kind of laugh. So. De Maria: Super, super profound and incredible work it sounds like. I want to know what your biggest challenges are in terms of applying sort of like an academic quantifiable study to certain intense and qualitative topics like joy, death, love, and human experience. Carreon: Your question was, sorry, how do I-- De Maria: How, how do you kind of apply a quantitative study to concepts like that and what are your biggest challenges of doing that? Carreon: Yeah. A quantitative study. Well currently I'm in a survey methods course (laughs). So, I am actually developing a survey to, it's a pre-interview survey just to get like demographic, demographics of my population and using it as a pilot study for my dissertation. But I do wanna ask questions obviously about emotions. And it's really hard, because I am a trained qualitative researcher. So one, I'm not a quant(itative) person. But it's also hard to quantify emotions. I feel like quant, quantitative research often strips the humanity and people's experiences, and just kind of diminishes them just to numbers (laughs). So it's sometimes hard to translate--or translate that I guess. But I know that numbers are important (laughs), right? It's how we get funding. It's how to make it palatable to larger audiences. And so, I'm still trying to figure that out (laughs). De Maria: Awesome. And I was just curious because obviously the role of data and statistics also plays a huge part in social justice itself and trying to understand, you know, quantifiably where injustices are taking place, or how those injustices are manifesting themselves. So, to me it felt like a very one-to-one comparison of using a quantitative study to quantify those emotions that you mentioned in those cancer patients. As well as how some researchers, you know, have to basically fit statistical models to qualitative issues in, you know, underserved communities and things like that. So, just wanted to explore that a little bit ‘cause it was super fascinating. But taking things back to the topic at hand and to kind of wrap up our interview, I just wanted to know what the most important lesson you've taken from your experience with the Cross-Cultural Center was, and kind of how it impacted you. Carreon: You said my most important, sorry? De Maria: Lesson. Carreon: My most important lesson? De Maria: That you've taken. Carreon: Probably to pause before I speak (laughs). And to listen. Oftentimes I have learned that people who have very differing conservative you know, or even like radical opinions just kind of wanna be heard (laughs). Sometimes I am not the person to listen, but I can redirect them to someone who wants to listen. But I think my role within, obviously when I was a student, I mean a student worker there, I would listen. I think, you know, my role now as just someone who would be visiting the center, I could walk away (laughs). But, and even then I can still walk away as, as like now, but also wanting to pursue, you know, a teaching career. It's going, I'm going to get a wide variety of students with different opinions of, of coming to understand sociology. And so, definitely listening and pausing before I speak. I think a tool that I kind of took from Floyd, he would always ask me, “How did you come to that solution?” Or, “What made you think of that? And avoiding the question of, “Why?” And just trying to better understand people. So. De Maria: Awesome. Well, I wanted to thank you for taking some time out today for this interview. I think this is gonna be a great resource for anyone for trying to learn more about the Cross-Cultural Center through the lens of someone who is actually there. So again, this information was indispensable, and I'm really excited to see where your career takes you. And you know, hopefully what you'll be doing for CSUSM in the future to kind of expand the center and hopefully take up even more responsibility for the school. Carreon: Yeah (laughs). De Maria: Awesome. Thanks, Daniela. Carreon: All right. Thank you. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. 
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Carreon, Daniela. Interview April 6th, 2023.
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Daniela Carreon is alumna of California State University San Marcos, where she worked with the Cross-Cultural Center (CCC) and other student organizations such as MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicanx de Aztlan). In this interview, Daniela discusses her involvement with the CCC, campus changes, and her current work & goals as a sociology PhD student.
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SC027-40
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California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center
California State University San Marcos. Kamalayan Alliance
California State University San Marcos. Ethnic Studies
California State University San Marcos. Events and Conference Services
Civil rights
Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán
Student movements
Psychic trauma
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2023-04-06
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video
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Daniela Carreon
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Michael De Maria
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Encinitas (Calif.)
Escondido (Calif.)
San Marcos (Calif.)
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California State University San Marcos University Library
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English
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Daniela Carreon
Cross-Cultural Center oral history project
CSUSM history
Latine experience
Women's experience
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Oral Histories
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Oral History
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Judith Downie
Interviewee
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Tomme Arthur
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https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=ArthurTomme_DownieJudith_2019-08-08.xml
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5.4 Arthur, Tomme. Interview August 8, 2019 SC027-044 01:09:58 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM csusm Brewers -- California -- San Diego County. Brewing industry -- California -- History. Lost Abbey Brewing (San Marcos, Calif.) Microbreweries -- California -- San Diego County. Tomme Arthur Judith Downie ArthurTomme_DownieJudith_2019-08-08.m4a 1:|17(6)|44(4)|71(12)|94(8)|117(10)|139(3)|172(14)|214(13)|227(11)|264(9)|284(2)|311(5)|345(12)|373(2)|393(14)|427(5)|450(16)|474(12)|493(6)|523(7)|562(8)|583(6)|616(10)|634(16)|649(12)|670(14)|698(10)|717(5)|743(3)|760(6)|779(6)|802(9)|824(12)|843(10)|860(6)|877(13)|894(13)|911(17)|930(11)|953(3)|976(2)|991(14)|1021(12)|1039(7)|1062(14)|1098(8)|1146(15)|1159(9)|1189(15)|1231(3)|1246(10)|1270(9)|1300(3)|1321(3)|1342(16)|1363(2)|1384(4)|1401(4)|1421(14)|1439(11)|1459(4)|1475(10)|1499(6)|1521(2)|1535(4)|1559(5)|1590(9)|1610(2)|1627(6)|1643(11) Undefined 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/77ba455fa57d5b0079ba70f5e57ea2db.m4a Other audio English oral history Tomme Arthur has been involved in several San Diego breweries, most notably as founder and managing owner of Lost Abbey Brewing located in San Marcos, CA. His first professional brewing position was at the short-lived Cervecería La Cruda in San Diego, California. Arthur moved to Pizza Port Brewing in Solana Beach, California as an assistant brewer. After becoming Director of Brewing Operations for the increasing number of locations, he led the chain in garnering numerous beer awards. Arthur opened Lost Abbey Brewing in 2006 to focus on his interest in Belgian-style beers. In late 2023, Arthur separated Lost Abbey from Port Brewing operations in a ‘right-sizing’ plan in response to beer industry trends. Port Brewing retained the Hop Concept, Tiny Bubbles, and Kharisma brands in their portfolio and took over the San Marcos production space and closed the tasting room. Lost Abbey entered an alternating proprietorship agreement with Mother Earth Brewing to share their production space in nearby Vista, CA. 
 ; 
 ; In his 2019 interview, Arthur discusses his introduction to craft beer and home brewing ; entry into the profession and work at various breweries beginning in the 1990s ; founding Lost Abbey Brewing and other brewery ventures ; mentoring individuals in the industry ; and awards. 
 ; Judith Downie: So today is August 8th, 2019 and this is Judith Downie, the Curator of the CSUSM Brewchive® with Tomme Arthur, founder and co-owner of Lost Abbey, the Hop Concept, Port Brewing, and myriad other projects that we're going to be asking about. So tell me, the purpose of this is to kind of record in one place things I've seen in a lot of places. You know, you've been very generous with your time with people mentoring and interviewing. And so this is for the Brewchive®, basically an overall history of your life experiences as a brewer, thoughts, things like that. So, we do have a list of questions here, which again I'll read them off, I may reword them a little bit and you are open to responding to them however you need. And I hope we have plenty of time that you've talked about things that maybe nobody's ever asked you. Tomme Arthur: That would be fun. JD: Yeah. So record these things for posterity. So, let's start with your background. To be clear, from what I've seen, you started home brewing in Arizona while you were in college and how did that start? TA: So I am a native San Diegan. My family's three to four generations on both sides. Went to Saint Augustine High School. When I was in high school, I decided that I really liked the English language and I wanted to study English and felt that teaching was a path that I would probably take. JD: Okay. TA: And so I fell in love with Flagstaff as a campus and community. And the school at Northern Arizona University had a really good education teaching program. So that's how I ended up in Flagstaff. When I got to school, I met a family, last name is Gardner and, and their son, Tom. And I became very close and the Gardner family really was into beer and they were sort of my mentors to beer. And they said, you know, we're going to teach you about better beer. And of course, I was only 18 at the time, but you know, I wasn't gonna say no. And they kind of pushed me in this direction of here's what better beer looks like, tastes like. American beer, imported beer, Canadian, very English, you know, all the, all the different countries where a great beer would have come from. A lot of it at that time was imported of course. JD: Right. Because really, you know, we're talking what the... TA: 1991 and 95 was when I was in school. JD: Okay. So there really wasn't much of a craft beer scene in Arizona I don't think. TA: There were very few craft breweries in Arizona. In fact, there were no craft breweries in Flagstaff at the time. We ended up having three open up in my last year of school. But there were no craft breweries in Flagstaff and at that time. There was likely to be 10 or 15 probably in the entire state. But we've got a lot of regional beers. There was a lot of beer from Oregon, Washington, Northern California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado beer. So there was some American craft. But mostly from very older players, you know, Sierra Nevada Anchor, Deschutes (Brewery), big, bigger breweries. JD: And being that the craft beer scene in San Diego was still pretty young in that time period. Do you remember seeing anything from San Diego? TA: No. In fact we, we actually talk about this a lot, that prior to Stone Brewing coming into San Diego, nobody actually sent beer outside of San Diego. Karl Strauss (Brewing) had beer in San Diego at the time and packaged in bottles. But they, I don't believe much of their beer, if any, was leaving the San Diego area. So my understanding is that it really wasn't until Stone opened their doors and shipped beer to Arizona, likely maybe Nevada, you need to ask them, where they crossed the state line and perhaps were one of the original new craft breweries to actually make beer to leave San Diego. JD: Which is really interesting because I have in my pre-Prohibition research on San Diego craft brewing found Mission Brewing. They were brewing beer to supplement San Diego Consolidated Brewing, which is San Diego Brewing Company (today). They were San Diego Consolidated Brewing for a while and Arizona passed Prohibition in 1914, five years before National Prohibition and halted any shipment of even Hopski, which was a near beer Mission was brewing, into the state. They weren't even allowing that. And there was a big lawsuit and Mission Brewing lost and that was the contributing factor to the closure of Mission through that. TA: They actually lost out on a nonalcoholic or near beer. JD: Yeah. Hopski, and they didn't continue to brew that because J. H. Zitt, who was the president, the current owner of San Diego Consolidated Brewing had said ‘I will never brew anything but real beer.’ So he's the one who decided to close Mission. Because he actually owned it at the time because his father-in- law and brother-in-law, who had founded Mission, had walked away. TA: Yeah, the old San Diego stuff is really interesting. JD: Yeah, and it's a, it's an interesting kind of parallel between you being in Arizona and starting your interest in beer there and then coming back to San Diego. But I've also seen that you've noted that your favorite beers are Belgian style. What? TA: I just find them to be very unique and I think that there's, there's a pretty, I guess when I first got started in brewing in my sort of craft foundation, they were the most unique things out there. And that, that today is not necessarily the case. There's so many new producers and people that have really taken the boundaries and, and stretched them and moved them in directions. I think ostensibly under a Belgian influence or sort of what amounts to be a Belgian artistry, but there's a lot more to it these days. And I just think that if you, if you become imaginative about beer, you have to look at what the Belgians did or were doing at that time. Technique wise, yeast wise flavors, just process things. Very unconventional via what, what would amount to be a very conventional sort of brewing, you know, take four malts or take four ingredients. You can, you used a lot of water and hops and that's beer. And then you look at what they do. And it's completely different. JD: So you think the Belgians weren't constrained by the purity law that the Germans had and that's part of what led to their inventiveness? TA: Yeah, I just feel like they as a group embraced different methodologies and, and that sometimes weren't easy. And those methods at least preserved flavors that couldn't be found in beer, again, conventional beer. JD: Okay. Very interesting. So, onto your actual brewing experiences. You started home brewing? I read it was a homebrew kit... TA: So the Gardner’s bought me a home brew kit early for my graduation. So, I was gifted it in January of 1995 and that's when we started homebrewing. JD: Okay. And you didn't like the first beer you brewed? TA: The first beer we brewed, it was a black style, you know, sort of a dry Irish Guinness-style stout, but it came out very thin and didn't taste like Guinness or anything. So it wasn't, it was not a good beer. But you know, I think the expectations were high and probably should have set the bar a little lower. JD: Was this extract or all grain? TA: It was extract for sure. JD: Yeah. Because of course supplies even in the 90s, were still kind of hard to come by. TA: Yeah, we were pretty lucky there was a homebrewer outpost in Flagstaff, so there was a store that sold ingredients that we could've, we could've started in an all-grain basis. But I was living in a house with four people and it just wasn't really, I didn't have the resources to go build a full all grain brewing system, with the plastic fermenters and you know, boiling on the stove top kind of stuff was definitely where it was at. JD: Yeah, you got to start somewhere. So, then you came back to San Diego. Was that, what was the reason for coming leaving Arizona? TA: So I graduated in June or May of 1995. JD: So was this your bachelor's or your teaching credential? TA: This was my bachelors of arts in just English. And at that point I didn't really want to stay in Flagstaff and I wasn't gonna attend grad school there. So, I moved back home and so I left. And when I got home I kind of kicked around a little bit trying to figure out what I was going to do and really didn't have a plan necessarily I was able to go back and live with my parents. And you know, the only requirement was that I find a job. So, I found a job and that's kinda how I got in the downtown life. My dad had a printing business when I was growing up, so I was very, very well trained and I worked in the campus print shop when I was in school. So, I applied for a printing job in a downtown San Diego business and I was commuting, taking the trolley from La Mesa down into downtown San Diego every day. And I happened to be reading want ads, just, it was all that was left in the newspaper at that point. And stumbled upon a brew pub opening that had an ad in the paper for cooks, dishers, all that stuff in it said assistant brewer and I circled it. And I walked over the next day at lunch and applied for a job. And that was actually Cervecería La Cruda. JD: Right, with Troy Hojel? So, you actually opened Cervecería La Cruda in September of ‘96? TA: No, they, they would have opened, I think it would've been March of 96 ‘cause we ended up, we attended the great American beer festival in September, October of 96 and then it closed. It was less than a full year. I think I was hired in April, May-ish. and then I wasn't there even for a full year. JD: Yeah. I have, I have March ‘97 is when it closed. TA: So I think it probably was mid April-ish I would've been hired in. We didn't even make it a full year. JD: Yeah. This is the kind of thing I like because I have a very large Excel spreadsheet of every brewery from 1868 which was Chollas Valley Brewery through today. Whether they opened or closed, it never made it, pulled the license, whatever... TA: So, how many different breweries have attempted to open? Are we in the three hundreds or? JD: Well, my Excel spreadsheet also includes all the individual tasting rooms because generally they pull a separate ABC license. I'm up over 550 getting close to 600 I think, but I could certainly get back to you with how many tried and never even actually opened. I think there's a real object lesson there. TA: I think the most interesting thing is that we operate that there's 160 or whatever right now that are active, but it's really interesting to know kind of how many have kind of opened and closed and opened and closed and where you know, you can say, okay, since prohibition we've had 208 that have tried or participated in this, in this scene. JD: Yeah, because I break the whole history into three parts. There was a pre-Prohibition 1868 to 1919, 1919/1920 then 1933 to 1953 because Aztec, which had sold to Altes Brewing, closed and they were the last brewery operating post-Prohibition and then we didn't pick up again until the (19)80s so I can extract that information and get it to you because those numbers are always very powerful. TA: Yeah. I just feel like it'd be interesting to say since Prohibition, there's been 208 licenses that were issued or over, you know-- JD: And then there were others that announced a name or announced that they were going to open and never even got around to pulling a license. You know, so I have, I have every single possible name of any business that ever said ‘we are going to be a brewery or a brew pub, or...’ TA: No one ever drops on in front of you and you say, haven't heard of it. JD: Well actually not too long ago, I ran across one called the Royal Duffer. And that evidently they were contract brewing. They were in Carlsbad and they were like four golf buddies. And so they had beer for, again, I think it was less than a year. And I haven't been able to find out too much information from them, but I'm very alert to, ‘Oh, I don't think I've ever heard of that name before’ so this is the first one I've not heard of in a long time. So I think I'm pretty comprehensive. But yeah. Yeah, it's been interesting and a lot of work. But going back to Troy, is Troy still around? TA: He is in somewhere in Colorado outside of Denver. In fact, I just talked to him the other day. He texted me, I think his cousin opened a brewery in Texas and he had a question or two. TA: So yeah. He's in Colorado and doing the software. JD: Okay. So he's no longer in the brewing business. TA: No, actually he left the brewery business and ended up doing software in Northern California for a bit, I think, and then moved off to Colorado. JD: Well, it's gotta be sad to watch your dream die especially so quickly. TA: You know, it was a pretty aggressive life lesson, you know? It taught me a lot in the short time that we were into it. I still think that Troy is one of the best brewers I've ever met. And it would've been a really cool thing to see it succeed at, but certainly would've put me on a different life path, I think if it had. So I don't, I don't try not to, you know, revisionist history, that part of it. But the beers that he made and he was a very technical brewer, I think, I think it would've been, it would've added to the scene even more. JD: Yeah. What actually happened? Was it just lack of sales? TA: I think more than anything it was a bad, is a bad business model. I don't know if you know the story of Baja Brewing Company. JD: I'm familiar with the name, but not really the story. TA: So Baja Brewing Company opened up and they claimed to be the very first Mexican-themed brewpub in the United States. Now it was their claim to fame. But what happened is that the partners at Baja Brewing and the partners at La Cruda actually had a schism and they split. They were going to open the Baja Brewing Company together or something along those lines and they had a falling out and the partnership dissolved. And so these guys opened Baja Brewing Company and less than three or four months later Cervecería La Cruda opened up three blocks away. So the very first Mexican theme brewpub in this country opened up and three blocks later and three months and three blocks over the second one opened. So, very underfunded from the get-go. Very, it was a 13,000 square foot building at Forth and Island, you know, big, big building. Too much of it to just for the time I, I'd be nervous opening a 13,000 square foot building brewpub today. And you know, back when the Gaslamp was kind of still new and trendy and hot, I don't know what the rent was, but just overall a bad, a bad vision I think for what was going on. JD: Ahead of its time. Really. TA: Yeah. And the thing that's kind of crazy is that Cervecería La Cruda to them is a hangover brewery. So when you say ‘tengo la cruda’, that means I have the crud, I'm not feeling well. That's not a real great way to tell people you want to come here and drink. They opened up with a menu that they had sourced from the family that owned El Callejon in Encinitas. So, they had this really great, I would say deep, deep Mexican Sonoran source, you know, moles (sauces) and things. But that wasn't on anyone's radar with respect to craft brew at the time. So, good people, great, great opportunity. But not even something, that I think today, even if you attempted to tackle it, would probably work really well. JD: So as you say, a real experience. TA: Yeah, a lot I learned from, you look around and you see simplicity sometimes wins. JD: Or slow growth. Planned slower. TA: Or have more money than you think. Yeah. JD: Somebody said to me one time something like, you need five times more than you think you do. And I would, I think that's true with any business really. But the expense of equipment and materials and everything and you just can't do it all yourself. TA: No. You gotta be able to weather a lot of storms. JD: And you know, with this, I know in September of 2016 I went to the craft beer conference up in Sacramento and I saw you speak there and you at that time, this is three years ago now, said that San Diego was already over-saturated, and you would not open up a brewery at this point in San Diego. And how many breweries have we had open up? TA: Continues to be a head-scratching thing. Yeah. Well, we joke, I mean, we're here in San Marcos now. I've got three breweries within a one-mile stretch. Right. So yeah, that's just the way it is. Yeah. JD: But you're each different. Accommodating everybody at some point. But so when La Cruda closed, you moved to White Labs for just a couple of months in yeast sales. Was that based because you knew about yeast? TA: So White Labs had just kinda gotten their feet wet. So I remember the very first day when I was at La Cruda, one of the very first days I was at La Cruda. Chris White (founder of White Labs) walked in on a sales call. And so we were chatting and talking and at some point, and this is a part of my history that I don't remember all of that clearly, but I ended up moving in with them. I mean I was a roommate and I think there was a crossover point where I was working at La Cruda, but I already moved into their house. Cause he and Lisa had an empty room. I needed a place to stay. And then when La Cruda was on its way to be closing it became kind of obvious that I could help them in their infancy of their company with some just R and D and just different trialing and things like that. TA: You know, I had met a lot of brewers in Arizona at that time. So Chris said, well, why don't you come help me just kind of knock down some doors and you know, we just need somebody that can walk in and kind of talk about this in a very brewer friendly kind of way. So my goal was I was kind of like an ambassador really. You know, I didn't really do a lot of pure sales but my job was to talk about it and explain how my experience with different yeasts and temperatures and things like that. So it was kind of just yeah, I think it was more of a product, product knowledge and ambassador at that point. JD: Was there any conversation at that time about opening up a tasting room for yeast labs? TA: No. No. I mean, maybe Chris had it, but it you know, that was a pretty, it was a long time ago and there wasn't really a sense of yeast as a business outside of the yeast business. I don't think there was sort of that auxiliary layer to it. I'm sure Chris would have liked to have had a bunch of beers on tap, but I, I would imagine if he had had that thought back then that they would have probably just wanted 10 beers on tap for their customers to come sample them, but not necessarily not, not really treat it as an educational function for the consumer as much as an educational experience for a brewer who maybe hadn't worked a certain use and things like that. I mean there's just an enormous amount of yeasts that have been banked since we started. Since I got my first job in 1996 there's been an enormous amount of new yeast that had been added. So, they need an avenue to show people what those yeasts do. JD: And back then too, you probably had a lot of brewers, even professional brewers, would be how I see it. That didn't really understand a lot about the hops that were available. The yeast that was available, you know, cause a lot of them had, were coming out of the homebrew experience and you know, all of a sudden here's more stuff you need to know. TA: If you go back and look at it ‘95, ‘96 to, so that time, I mean we're talking about a dial up modem, you know, we're talking about low internet speed, we're talking about not... JD: A lot of people, not even having computers or knowing how to use it. TA: Not even a lot of Information online. Frankly. I mean you couldn't, you could not do all the kind of information that's out there today. And, and past that, a lot of the information that did exist in book format was highly technical through the ASBC (American Society of Brewing Chemists) and the big brewers. And then what was available that had been written about the sort of homebrew level and medium brewery. There wasn't a lot of medium brewery stuff in there, so you were getting a lot of books on how to brew ales, but they had this really big English, you know, sort of basis to them. Cask condition, real ale ingredients weren't American in their basis. So there was no ability to look up and say, Oh, how do I use this German hefeweizen yeast? You know, how do I, how much do I pitch it, what temperature, how does it behave? And none of that information existed. JD: So a lot of technical stuff. TA: Yeah. even just simplistic technical. What's the right temperature? JD: And around here San Diego was still something of a Coors town that's San Diego was test market for a couple of different, for Coors Light and for Herman Joseph's 1868 and you know, so really do you have much of a market for... TA: In fact, we joked about it here. This was the best, I think this was the best-selling Coors light town when I took in, when I got into brewing, this was the number one Coors Light in the country. JD: Yes, it was. TA: Well that explains to you, you know, where we're, where we were and where we came from. And on top of that you had all the import beers too, right? You still had Coronas and Pacifico and the Modelos in the world doing very well here at that time too. So yeah, it was a, it was a long ways to the top. JD: So you weren't at White Labs for very long before you were hired by Pizza Port. Pizza Port just had the one location then, right? TA: They had the one location in Solana Beach. Vincent (Marsaglia), Gina (Marsaglia) had been partners in the Carlsbad Public House with a guy named Brett. I think his last name was Stamp. JD: Tetley Ridden, I, it's a hyphenated name. (correct name is Redmayne-Titley) TA: Yeah. And then he became a, they, they had a falling out with Carlsbad Public House and they were in, they were in the process of converting the Public House, which is the Pizza Port in Carlsbad in the village into the Pizza Port at that time. So I was, I was brought into assist on Solana Beach because the head brewer was going to go have shoulder surgery and then they were supposed to move me up to Carlsbad to take over the production of the brewing and Carlsbad once, once he came back. So there was almost a second Pizza Port in line at that time. So they were, they were in the home stretch of the construction to convert it from the Public House to Pizza Port, which opened in July of 1997 so they were real close. And I always like to tell the story ‘cause I think it's very fascinating to me. I'd never stepped foot in Pizza Port before I got interviewed for the job. So I had no real perceived concept or notion of what exactly they did or what they didn't do. JD: Okay. And so you were an assistant brewer then? You weren't head brewer? TA: Yeah. Eddie Class, I think his last name was Classic. He was the head brewer at that time. And Vince was going to be the head brewer in Carlsbad when they opened. So yeah, Eddie was in charge of the brewery in Solana Beach and he was gonna go, I think I was going to have rotator cuff surgery and take about three months off. And then when he came back I was supposed to go take the job in Carlsbad. JD: Okay. but you, you obviously that didn't quite work out that way, but you were promoted to Director of Brewery Operations in June of 2005. TA: Yeah, that was a short stint ‘cause we were getting ready to open this place too. So yeah. JD: So you already knew you were going to be moving on? TA: We were having conversations at that point about how to get to here. We, I think in June it kind of was a collective. They terminated Kirk McHale, who was the brewer in Carlsbad in June of 2005 and then there was the San Clemente location, Carlsbad location, and Solana Beach. And I was asked to kind of tackle all three of them at the same time, make sure that they were more or less on the same page, collectively, kind of get them aligned. And then we also knew that we were having conversations about a new partnership and trying to build up the partnerships so that we could get this, this facility put into our orbit. JD: Okay. So that leads me into the founding Port Brewing in partnership with Vince and Gina. And you know, you have Port Brewing, you have Lost Abbey, you have the Hop Concept and I've also seen that you're involved in an Arizona brewery called Moto Sonora. So can you explain the structure of everything? TA: Yeah. When we started talking to Stone Brewing about buying this facility from them you know, my love of Belgian beers was pretty strong and I knew that we wanted to make some things out here that were very barrel aged, Belgian influenced and all that. And we had this, Vince had the idea for the brand called the Lost Abbey. So we were very, very keen on the fact that we knew that was going to happen. There were a lot of beers at Pizza Port that were being produced that needed to kind of stretch and grow and needed to get from get out from under just being a pub-based beer. And that allowed, you know, people who had been asking for more, you know, basically Pizza Port beer. And that's where the Port Brewing came from. So the Port Brewing beers, many of them when we opened our doors here came from Solana Beach recipes that I had produced, Hop 15, Santa’s Little Helper, Shark Attack. We brought the Wipe Out recipe over from Carlsbad and those beers had a lot of legacy towards the pubs and, and kind of, you know, grew them out of that realm. But we knew that there'd be the Port brand’s very West coast centric, you know, kind of that Ballast Point, Coronado, Green Flash, Stone kind of mentality. You know, higher hopping rates, you know, sometimes imperial, things like that. We always knew that that wasn't really that wasn't going to be our principal focus in the sense that we were going to have the two brands, but we also knew that having the two brands side by side allowed us to walk in and have a wide range of beers without having everything be a Lost Abbey beer or Port Brewing beer. JD: Okay. And then the Hop Concept is a fairly recent addition to the portfolio. TA: So a few years ago I walked into a bar and all the beer names on the wall really just confused me. There were so many new beers and I had no idea what they tasted like. And I didn't want to be a bother to the bartenders and try to, you know, ask them this or that. And I'm not an Untappd person. I don't really use digital media to tell me what I should be drinking. So, it kinda came back to we wanted to create a line of beers that were very fresh and simplistic in their makeup. So, the Hop Concept beers, we had a line called the Hop Freshener series and they were basically we had ‘Dank and Sticky’ and ‘Citrus and Piney and ‘Lemon and Grassy’ and ‘Tropical and Juicy’. And it was essentially taste and smell. And we, all we were trying to do was tell the consumer and the bartender, this is what you should expect the beer to taste like, or smell like. And it was a quick, straightforward deliverable and it was meant to be a, I use the word simple, but simple deliverable like you knew what you were getting. We were setting you up to understand how that beer should taste and behave. JD: Yeah, it does seem like naming beers because they do have to be registered names or whatever, becomes a bigger and bigger challenge. And in just looking at a name on the board, you frequently have no idea of what that beer really is. So, something like this where you're going back to the basics, this is what you're going to get. I think must be very attractive. TA: I thought so. I thought the cleanliness of it for us, which was just straightforward and nomenclature and deliverable, like this is this is what you can expect and... JD: Your label designs are very clean and very clear. Where Lost Abbey looks much more European, Medieval in a lot of ways. TA: And we went out and we went out and hired a firm for the first time to really, we told them this is what our vision is and this is why we're doing it this way, but we want you to make sure we produce this with a very crisp look to it. And they, they certainly executed that and I, and I think that's always been a strength of that brand. JD: Yeah. Let me ask you a little bit about the latest venture, Moto Sonora. I read that this was evidently your college roommate you are in partnerships with and his younger brother. And, of course, this is taking you back to Arizona. TA: It is. Tucson, not Flagstaff. I wish it was in Flagstaff, but I'm going to come to like Tucson cause it's closer. But yeah, my, it's kind of ironic because this was a random sort of thing back when, when I was in college with Jeff. Jeff really wasn't a big beer drinker but it turns out but his brother Jeremy really fell in love with craft beer and the two of them kind of decided that they have a high value for the city of Tucson. They loved that area. They've got deep roots in the community there. Their family, the DeConcini family's been a, been a big part of the Arizona scene and they just wanted to do this project. And I started talking to them as a consultant and just kind of saying, let me, let me hear what you're thinking. And then they said, well, maybe you could spend some more time on it. And I said, yeah, I've got the time to do that. TA: Let's, let's do this. So, I am coming in as one of the co-founders on that project. Port Brewing is not involved in the sense that we're not invested in it. JD: That was a question I had. TA: We're not, Port Brewing is not an investor in the company. Although I have permission with my partners to supply as many ingredients and things, you know, that we can, we can work to make sure that the beers there are at the highest, you know, sort of capacity. And if it means we're buying the hops and selling them hops and things like that, that's gonna happen. You know, I see it as potentially a training ground where if one of our brewers wants the position when we get going or they, you know, we want to move people out that way. But this is not anything more than a co-founding situation where I have the freedom to go tight, you know, take on other projects. I, I kind of liken it to chefs having multiple locations or bar owners having, you know, other projects and things. But I'm not moving to Tucson and I'm not going to be the head brewer there. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to establish what we're doing and push the company in the right direction and make sure that we become a really valuable part of that community. We've been definitely looking forward to the, just being involved in it and you know, a different beer scene at the same time. JD: Well, this kind of jumps over some of the questions I have because it leads into the amount of mentoring and work with newer brewers and the collaborations you do with the more established brewers. You are renowned in the industry for how people can come to you and pick your brain and you support and mentor in so many different ways. I see you as a one-person campaign to ensure craft beer success. And, and this is in comparison with efforts like Stone's True Craft where there were more financial assistance. Have you always been a remarkable mentor? It sounds kind of like, you know, you're, you're thinking to become a teacher. TA: Yeah. I think that's a big part of it, right? It's a, it's a sense of, you know, that shared piece. You know, I remember very, very early in my, in my Solana Beach days, I wanted to make a Saison-style beer and I needed to find somebody who could give me the answer for how much ginger I was supposed to put in the beer. Cause I wanted to make the beer with some ginger. And there weren't many places where I could turn to. And I picked up the phone one day and I called the owner of Left-Hand Brewing Company, his name was Dick Doore. And I said, Dick, you guys have this amazing Juju, ginger pale ale. I love it. Would you be willing to share that information with me? And he did. And he, you know, and we'd barely met. And it was one of those things that, okay, yeah, that's how the industry works. Right. And you know, this is something that I think Troy had put in my head back in the day was like, there are the right people to be talking to and then there's the wrong people. And the wrong people are the ones that don't freely exchange the information, or they don't, they don't try to push it uphill. And for the longest time we had so much work to do in this town to push the level uphill that we collectively had to talk about it. I mean, everybody I think that you would interview would have the similar sense of if we didn't all work together then we wouldn't have gotten to where we were. JD: Isn't that the principle behind the San Diego Brewers Guild? TA: Of course, you know, the very first Guild meeting was out at La Cruda. So yeah. Yes, for sure that the Guild, you know, I think we were the very first city in the country to have its own brewers guild. And that, that's kind of a, you know, a feather in the cap for what I think, you know, the old, the old guard or the people that really did, you know, hunker down back in the day was that there was a true sense that there was going to be something really good about the scene here. But we had to work really hard at it. So, I've always liked that conversational aspect of it. I believe that I can, I can ask the right questions with friends and people and, and if I can turn around and get that information back out, it makes sense. So yeah, why not? I mean, there's, there's very little, I guess I don't feel very competitive or threatened by it by that, you know, that dialogue or that sharing of information. JD: I think that's, I mean, I, I'm on certain, like the San Diego Plexus Facebook group and stuff, and your name comes up and everybody says, Tomme Arthur, he's the person to talk to. He is the god locally, you know, I mean, your name is always used in very positive way, which I think really speaks to the efforts that you have put into the community and supporting, especially newer brewers, but also working with other established brewers and not treating it as competition but treating it as we can all be better. TA: And I think the one thing that's kind of maddening these days, and this is, this is my personal soap box, is that there's a lot of people that are collaborating on things. And I'm, I'm very concerned about this new sense of collaborating because I don't know that it's doing much other than it's bringing people together. And then you say, well what did we change and what did we do? And I'm like, okay. But I think the collaborative narrative of old was we collaborated on something because it was going to be something demonstratively different than we could have done singularly. And I'm not sure that much of that's going on today. So, when we collaborate with an old guard or with someone new, we're, we're really trying to have a sense of purpose. And I hope that people continue to realize that just collaborating with someone for the sake of sales isn't always, I guess from where I come, from isn't always the best course of action. JD: Again, going to your mentoring, have you had the opportunity to open doors for specific groups? And I'm thinking women or minorities or people with disabilities, people, you know, because the standard concept of a brewer is a male, white guy, you know, I mean that just still is. It's not that way anymore. But have you had opportunities to work with or speak to groups to encourage them? TA: I was thinking about this the other day because you know, I look at our staff, it is generally mostly male. We have had a few female employees on the beer side in the past and they've been phenomenal employees. And I was thinking the other day that we haven't done enough in our world to cultivate that specifically. And I know the Brewers Association is pretty keen on promoting diversity and things these days. And I'm wondering as an educational mentor, et cetera, where I should be looking to do some of those things or how I get involved in that. You know, where, where can I be impactful in that, in that space. And I don't know if it's through the university or through, you know, there's a big Latino population up here in San Marcos and Vista. But clearly, you know, being white and being white isn't always the best thing. With respect to trying to, you know, we've got to find new, new people to energize and really enthuse about what we do. And preaching to the 40-year-old male white choir isn't, isn't the best place to live in. JD: Well, I don't know if you're aware of Border X (Brewing), which is of course down in Barrio Logan has, is sponsoring a women's beer club called Mujeres Brew Club. I'm sorry, I, my Spanish isn't that swell. And they invited me to be their first speaker and they're doing a meeting each month on a different aspect and at the end they are going to brew a beer at Border X. And the women that are in there, many of them don't know even beer styles. I mean, one woman evidently asked the question, what's an IPA? And so, you know, and it's, it's a safe space for women and it does have a large number of Latina women, which I think is phenomenal because maybe some of these will become brewers and there are women are working in the beer industry in San Diego who are also members. Some of them are speakers and some are just attending the meetings because they're always eager to learn more. So maybe reaching out to, or you know, helping sponsor a group like that or Pink Boots Society (international organization for women and non-binary people in the fermentation industry. The first chapter was founded in San Diego.) of course, you know, is always looking for speakers and educational opportunities and things. But you know, there's a growing presence, but it is hard to, when women are so scattered or you know, like you say it's underrepresented with the minorities or you know, and there are certain positions that probably someone with a physical disability couldn't perform in a brewhouse, what could they do? Can they be the quality control people, things like that. So, it seems like there are places that we need to increase. TA: Yeah. It's interesting because I was thinking about this again the other day. I was like, we just don't have that many women apply for jobs. It's, it's you know, I, you know, I have a, a fairly good amount of men working, you know males, working on the floor. But I can't remember the last time I saw an application come in for a brewing position from a woman. So somehow the outreach needs to get further than, you know, I'm talking entry-level packaging jobs, things like that. There's, there's clearly, you know, there's, it's not a bias in our world. They're just not coming and knocking down our door. So somehow we have to convince them that this isn't, this is a pretty good place where they could, you know, they can, they can find careers and homes. JD: Well, if you do want to advertise positions, I have a couple of resources. I can push things out to Pink Boots San Diego for one. And then there's another Facebook page of women interested in beer. Some are working in the industry ; some are maybe looking to get into the industry. And of course, maybe pushing the word out to the EngiBeering® program at Cal State San Marcos. ‘Cause there are, there's at least a couple of women enrolled in that program. But yeah, it's hard because there aren't many women available to bring in. But then, you know, we do have a, you know, a fairly strong Hispanic population in this area. So, you know, why can't we leverage that? And it's finding those points of contact. That's a, that's a continual problem that I have seen. Also, to kind of jump back, I mentioned Stone's True Craft effort, which, you know, obviously died. It was a great idea to help small, small breweries with financing to where they didn't have to sell themselves to big beer. What did you think of that idea when you thought, heard of it? TA: You know, I had a lot of friends that took meetings with them. I mean, at least on the surface I was told, you know, Hey, we've, we've gone and talked to them about it. I think the biggest challenge was, is that that was at a time when there was a lot of unrealistic expectations about valuations and what, what things were worth or how, how long term, you know, how companies would be out, people would work long term together. You know, it's an interesting model because this business is such a, almost a loner thing. Like most people open their own little brewery and then at some point you need more investment in that comes with a lot more triggers and kinds of parameters and stuff in some small breweries never outgrow the small, you know, model. They, I'm the single proprietor, not me. They are a single proprietor, ownership kind of environment and you know, they borrow money from the bank and that's what they get and that's what they want to be. You know, there's a very passionate pursuit for them. And then there's the big business side of it, which says if you're going to scale and grow and you know, buying equipment is not cheap and putting concrete in the ground and copper piping and just every single thing you could think of. JD: And the length time it takes to just deal with all the permitting within the city, within the state, with the ABC (California’s Alcoholic Beverage Control agency in charge of licensing alcohol production, distribution and sales.) TA: And the regulatory. Yeah. All of those pieces. So I applaud Greg for, and Steve, for putting the platform together. You know, the, I think the biggest hurdle for a lot of people is just how, how do you entrepreneurially sign up for something like that? Right? It's, it's, you know, it's a different, it's a different (unclear) in you. You're talking about an environment where you went from being in charge of your own facility to now having new investment that comes with different, again, different triggers and things. I think it's interesting cause nobody signed up to do it and I don't know if that was that the metrics didn't align or how that was. But I know a lot of people took meetings and so I guess the question is, is what, what was, what was unrealistic on both sides for, for that, how come it, how come they didn't get anybody to, to partner with? JD: Yeah. I'm, I don't know who took meetings, but it would be interesting to talk to them to ask them why they didn't pursue that, and did they find an alternative that worked better for them. So that's on my list of things to do. Since we've mentioned big beer, have you ever been approached by big beer with an offer to purchase you or to work with them in some sort of way? TA: No. In the 13 years that we've been open no one has put an offer sheet on the table and said, we want to buy you for XYZ dollars or otherwise. We have met with some family offices, venture people, people, you know, my thing is we'll take any meeting just to say hi. Mostly to learn about what people are looking for, what they're doing. But pretty emphatically we've never actually been offered, no one's ever actually offered to purchase us in, in a minority capacity and majority otherwise. So no. JD: Good. I won't ask you what your response would be, but do you think that maybe partly it's because, I don't want to say you do extreme beers, but you do less run-of-the-mill beers in many cases that might just be something that big beer would not find attractive. TA: If we live in a fringe world, we're, you know, we're sort of known as a super-premium producer and we have a lot of niches that we feel from barrels and sour. You know, they've, big breweries have a need in sometimes to do that, but they, they, I think they've found those elsewhere and they want scale and they want all kinds of things. You know, San Diego is an interesting model, right. We had Ballast Point sold, you know, Green Flash had sold and we've had a lot of big, bigger companies come through and, and, and have taken investments. And so I don't know if there was any real need beyond, I think big beer came and found what they needed from San Diego. I'd be surprised if, if there's any big beer-ness left in San Diego. I mean, I say that, and you know, we'll see. But you know, I, I don't, I don't really feel like that the big beer is kind of be knocking down the doors in San Diego anytime soon. JD: They got their toe in. TA: Potentially because of the desaturation and just some of the difficulties that they might experience. ah, it's a, it's a whole, it's a whole run of things and it really has to do with, you know, where can they, where can they scale and where can they find their return on their investment and things like that. JD: Yeah, no, that's what they're looking at is a bottom line. TA: It is 100% about how much can they make on what they're buying it. Yeah. JD: Because your beers are not run of the mill Coors-type beers, not to bash Coors, but just, you know, as an example, where did you get your early inspirations? I mean, you, you said you like the Belgians and you were exposed to a wide variety of European and, and what craft beer was made in the US. But things like oak aging and sour beers, were those things that you were exposed to early on or were those things that you found out later while you were experimenting? TA: Yeah, it was early. I remember, I remember my first Chimay Red. I remember my first Guinness and I vividly remember the very first Rodenbach I ever had. And I, you know, the Rodenbach I think hit me more than anything else in that really portend, you know, that really does explain why, you know, like, Oh my God, that's okay. I know there's weird beer out there, but this is way to the left, right? This thing is way, way downstream from anything I'd had at that point. You know, I was, when on the four years I was in college, I was sampling a lot of beers and then I continued to continue to buy beer. And, and it's just when you get one that's put in front of you and you say, wow, how did they do that? And that was kind of the, the aha that was the light bulb, I think was, was that first Rodenbach. That somebody who's living in a world where that, that's so to the extreme and delicious. But why can't, why can't I, why can't I think about beer like that? And that's, that definitely pushed me in that direction. JD: Well that's great to have such an open mind. Do you remember who, if anyone else was doing things like barrel aging and sour beers or anything when you started doing it? TA: Vinnie (Cilurzo, founded Blind Pig Brewing in Temecula, CA before moving to Northern California to found Russian River Brewing.) and I joke about this a lot cause Vinnie at Russian River and I are pretty good friends and a lot of it comes back to when we first picked up oak barrels and really got into that, you know, late 19, late 1990s, you know, the first batch of cuvée that we were making and they were making beer called Temptation. There was very little of that going on and I knew Belgian had (inaudible. in the market. But out West there weren't a lot of people making sour beer in barrels. And so we had to just kinda kick the can on how to do it. Talk collectively. Again, it got back to, we were not we did not, you know, you know, withhold the secrets. And we talked a lot about the what ifs and things and that I think was a big, big part of the success was just, okay, how are we going to do this in this environment? Because again, you couldn't open a book and read how to do it. Today you can open plenty of books. JD: Or just find it out there on the web. TA: I mean, you pick up the phone and call someone, but then back then it isn't, you know, how do you manage your barrel program or what do you, how do you do this? It was, well, I'm going to try, I'm going to try this. Okay. That sounds like that. That seems reasonable to me. JD: Oh, so you can't think of anybody specifically locally though? You, I mean, Vinnie, to me, is still local as they were nearby-- TA: For sure, it’s California. JD: but I'm thinking in San Diego. TA: You know, I don't know if we, I always say we, being Pizza Port. I don't know if we were the first ones to make intentionally sour beer in San Diego. I don't recall running into it anywhere at that point. But for the sake of clarity, I never say we were the first ones because I truly don't know. There was some oak aging going on the guys at Rock Bottom (Restaurant and Brewery) in La Jolla specifically ‘cause I got barrels from them. AleSmith (Brewing Company)I think was right about that same time, ‘97, ’98-ish where they were getting into having some bourbon barrel kind of things going on. JD: But that was Skip (Virgilio founded AleSmith Brewing and later sold to Peter and Vicky Zien.). TA: Skip doing that. There was not a lot of sour beer in California at that point. So, or even San Diego can that I can recall. JD: I’m glad sour beer’s around. Okay. You just mentioned cuvée. And I've seen it said that that is your favorite beer. TA: Perhaps. JD: Yeah. Perhaps. TA: It’s the only one that bears my name (Cuvée du Tomme). How's that? JD: That's true. That's true. On the other hand, is there a beer that you ever made that you didn't care for, but everybody else said, no, we've got to put this on tap. TA: Ooh, that's a damn good question. JD: Did they, did it actually sell well? TA: There is a running joke here at the brewery. We made a beer a few years ago called Spontaneous Cheer. And the Spontaneous Cheer was a peach sour and it was actually spontaneously fermented. So we, we've got some spontaneous fermentation barrels and things that we do from time to time and we have a large library of barrels. We have over a thousand oak barrels full of now and we made this batch of beer and it tasted pretty darn good. That being said, I struggled with it personally because it didn't really manifest our house culture. We have a very strong sour beer sense. Like there's a terroir in our world. You can taste the Lost Abbey beer and it's white grapey and it's stone peach fruit. And you can tell that there's something about the way that we blend in and package. And that beer had none of it, even though it was a peach beer. But that's because all of the cultures came from the spontaneous portion. And so, people were like, you have to release this beer. And I can't in good conscience release it because you could open it in a tasting room in Texas and you'd have no idea it came from us and what's the point of that? So that's probably the one in this environment that had garnered a lot of energy I would say, okay, that's not what I was, didn't hate the beer, just wasn't keen on it. Bearing the name Lost Abbey being sour and didn't, didn't exude us. JD: And so you have not brewed it again since. TA: No, we haven’t. Even though we likely could, and people would freak for it, but it doesn't, again, it gets really to the point of, you know, we're really trying to have that identity in a big sea of imitations. I would think that that was probably a one-and-done. I'd be surprised if it came back. JD: Okay, if I ever see an unopened bottle of it, I'll know that that's truly special. TA: So we never bottled it. That's the only bottle that I think, I mean it was, it was literally only one oak barrel, so 50 gallons. But I think we only bottled it. I had a friend who had a baby and there was a request, but I, there shouldn't, there shouldn't be any bottles of that out in the world. There are, they probably aren't real. JD: Yeah. Well, we'll know that they are shams. What was your very first award for brewing? TA: That's a good question. JD: You've had so many. TA: I know like, let's see. We had strong ale in 19... Well, okay. The very first award that I know for certain was the gold medal that I participated in at La Cruda. We won a gold medal (awarded at the Great American Beer Festival) for the Makanudo Porter, but that was not my beer and I was not the recipe generator. So I would say probably a beer that we brewed at Pizza Port and that was part of the Strong Ale Festival in ‘97 or ‘98. And then at that point we started entering the Real Ale Festival in Chicago or some California State Fair stuff. We did not win a GABF (Great American Beer Festival.) award until 1999, 2000. JD: Shame on them. TA: It took me a little while to figure out where our beers sort of fit in the competitive landscape. JD: The pantheon of beers. TA: So once I figured that part out, we got on a roll pretty, quickly. JD: That does seem to be a little bit of a challenge cause I'm a member of the Society of Barley Engineers when they talk about submitting for homebrew (competitions). Sometimes there are quite intense discussions about where a particular beer, that somebody’s having everybody sample, what category that fits into. And you do then deal with judges’ taste buds. Which, you know, it's a constantly moving landscape. TA: I’ve been a GABF judge since ‘99-ish. And that has afforded me an enormous amount of opportunities to watch the process, participate in it, and even potentially piss off brewers and people who maybe didn't, you know, like the way that it went. It's fascinating to watch the competition evolve at a table relative to the dialogue, the strength of the judges, the opinions of the judges. Even just the sheer age of the, the judging has come from, there were only this block of people that used to do it and now it's expanded and now the categories have morphed and they're different. And the, you know, we talk about it a lot because it's, it's interesting to see how difficult, first of all, there's so many more beers, but the sheer, the sheer perspective that people are operating under relative to, I've had these style beers or I've never been think about, okay, I'm supposed to judge a Kölsch-style beer, but I'm a judge and I've never been to Cologne and had the six beers from there that are the, that are the standards. Well, how do you judge that? Like that's, that's a, it's an interesting scenario because you're being asked to read this against what was written, how this is how a standard should taste. Yet. You've never been in situ and had that environmental condition. JD: Right, with that terroir and all everything else, all those factors that work into it. TA: 100 percent. I do agree with you that there's, one of the things about entering competitively is that there's so many different places beers can fit and sometimes it's really environmentally like time and place. Sometimes the beer exudes more oak and sometimes it doesn’t, and it wants to be in an oak category, but it can't cause it has brett (industry jargon for Brettanomyces, a fungi used to sour beer.) We did a sampling a couple months ago back in early July and I think we went through 20 different beers for GABF trying to get down to the five that we wanted to send. And in order to do that we had to kind of pick the beers. We'd, you know, we brought out all the beers that we thought were really well done and then we had to go say, well that would fit here, wouldn't fit here, but it probably fits best here, but we don't want to send that beer there because we already have another one that wants to go there. So, you don't wanna compete against yourself either? JD: Now are you limited to five beers for competition? TA: Of late? They've been in the four to five range. Okay. A few years ago, you could send up to eight and prior to that it was kind of unlimited. But when it went from eight to five it got a lot harder. JD: Yeah. But it just seems like, I mean you can see what thousands of entries that seems like and yeah-- TA: I think there's over 8,000 beers that'll be judged. But we always say this, it's like if, if back when we were going to sending eight beers, I don't know if we make eight world-class beers every fall. Right? So how many are really well done and how many of them are like, you know, that far up the channel. I think we make eight great beers but are they going to sit at the table and really, really compete. But I think when you have eight versus four, your odds are better. But perhaps being in categories that some, some years are strong, and some years are weak, is, is where it kind of comes from. JD: Yeah. But you're also trying to be selective. I'm sure there are people that “I'll send as many beers as I can to increase my odds of winning an award.” Because of course the GABF awards still mean a lot. TA: Yeah. There was a year, I know this to be true, where at least one or two breweries that don't need to be, and they're not from San Diego, sent somewhere between 30 to 50 beers. And didn't win an award. And these are pretty good breweries. So, you know, you're talking about the shotgun approach. You hit the side of the barn. But it was pretty interesting to see that they didn't win. You know, the years of late where we haven't, we haven't managed to win an award. You know, we look up and we talked to the guys and we say, you know, look at the breweries that didn't win. Like, you know, these are, these are still some, you know, solid, solid producers and congratulations to the ones that did. But yeah, there's no guarantee anymore. I mean, winning one is a pretty dang good achievement. JD: Yeah. Well then in some cases, like just recently, what happens to the beer while is being transported? It could completely knock a perfectly good beer that left here out of any consideration because what happens to it or it doesn't even get there. TA: Yeah. So we've tried to mitigate that as best we can. Where the consolidation point and we have been for a long time that helps with refrigeration and, you know, just really making sure that the beer is better taken care of, competitive, you know, competitive judging or, you know, competitive brewing. I would say this is far different than it was 10, 15 years ago. JD: I guess for good and for bad both. But back to your awards, is there any award that you have one that is the most meaningful to you? Not to discount the other awards. TA: Sure, I think two really come to mind. The, we've been lucky to win a (GABF) Brewery of the Year award four different times. And I'm, I'm personally, I really want to get to five. I want to have that. I want to have that, that last one on the, you know, in that, you know, if I, if they gave out rings, I want to have the handful. The last time we won was 2007, so it's been a long time. And we may never get that opportunity again. I think the one that I won last year, which was the Russell Schehrer Award for Innovation and Craft Brewing, that that's you know, that's a hall of fame landscape kind of thing. And it just speaks to the community involvement and the, you know, being, being a participant in this, you know, only 22 people have won it at that point. And I, I, yeah, the legacy award, you know, something like that. I mean, I, I still love, I love the GABF and World Beer (Cup) Awards, a couple of awards cause they're, you know, they're purely blind. They're your peers. They show your team that they're, you know, they're making the right decisions. But the Russell award was probably the one that was singular in the sense that that was, you know, personally with my name on it. Where it's almost every other award that we've had that we've been lucky enough to garner comes with somebody else, you know, participating in doing work in that regard. JD: Yeah. Okay. Well, very good. So, we're just about at the end of all my questions, from your experience, is there anything in the way of advice or a lesson you've learned or anything else that you think either can't be said enough or you haven't ever had the opportunity to say? TA: You know, I think that we were talking yesterday, it's kind of interesting. We were talking about how difficult this business has become and there's a lot of noise and chatter and 50 years from now when someone's looking at this, they'll say, wow it's not as easy as it used to be. And I don't know where the fall line's going to be. We're going to get to 10,000 breweries in this country. I don't doubt that that'll happen. And I don't know where, where the relevancy will be. I don't know what it will look like. I feel pretty strongly that in the time that I've been lucky enough to be in this business, a lot of what's made us successful has come from a very strong sense of this is the beer I want to produce. And nowadays there seems to be a lot of, you have to just do what the consumer is saying they want. And tons of breweries I think are kind of losing their way, respectful of an identity. And I don't know if the artist in me can, can sort of reconcile that for the long haul. I think there's this sense that if, if that's the way the industry is going, you know, is that what I signed up for? Part of me wants to see the consumerism shift and I, I talk about this a lot, but it's kind of like when you throw the boomerang out, it comes back a little slower than it went out and maybe the boomerang is coming back. You know, that there's just too much ubiquity right now. But maybe not. Maybe with 10,000 brewers, you just, there is ubiquity and that's just part of the nature of it. But you know, I think the success that I've had, you know, in this business has been built on beers that, that, that have something that look and tastes like things that I've, you know, imagined and there's been a lot of success for that. But I don't know how you continue to do that when there's 10,000 imitators and people trying to, trying to find the same sort of, you know, sense of their worth. So for me, I think the biggest thing moving forward is just where, where do we all fit in? It's just dense stuff. JD: Giving everybody a chance to attain their dream. But yeah, you know. TA: Yeah. I think that we're going to see, I think in the next two years we're going to see a lot of dreams getting crushed because it's getting, it's getting even harder today than it was probably a year ago. But there might be a light at the end of the tunnel in the sense that, you know, there's been a lot of distributor consolidation. There's been a lot of breweries, what they say, you know, rightsizing or trying to figure this all out. But it's a business. It's gonna eat people alive, you know? And, and that's what businesses do, right? There's, there is this, there's, there's a success rate attributed to craft beer that's not as high. I mean, it's higher than most consumer goods, and there will probably be a little bit more reckoning that will come along with it because you just can't, you just can't all swim in the same ocean. It just doesn't work. And so we're going to find some sense of corrective correlations. I mean, we're going to find smaller, you know, people are going to be making less beer for the next few years and if you're actively making more beer, you're one of the very few people that's, that's winning in that, in that space. JD: It does seem like we had a real bump up in numbers of breweries that opened in 2016-2017 which is being that this is 2019, we're looking at entering the fourth and fifth year of leases for a lot of the breweries. And I think that might be a time where people are going to have to sit down and assess. TA: Sure. I mean, if you've got a five-year lease and you're about to come into that fourth year, you're in the fourth year and you're now triggering the, am I going to renew? Right. I haven't, I haven't been taking a paycheck or I've been taking very little. And then at some point you're like, are we, is this a real thing? You know, I don't, I don't know. You know, people, people certainly I think come into it, you know, really, you know, eager and excited about it. And then little by little you're, you're grinding and there's a lot of grinding going on right now, which is okay, but you know, there's, but grinding isn't fun. JD: No. And when people come into it with a passion, which is a term you used earlier, passion cannot sustain you forever, unfortunately. I mean, it's what maybe gets you up the next morning, but at some point it's not paying the bills and you have managed to raise a family, you know, other people, you know, that they've got investors that may or may not understand the actual brewing industry and cause and effect and impacts. And, you know, yeah, it's going to be real interesting to see what happens. TA: Yeah. I've been pretty lucky. My partnership here hasn't had an unrealistic expectation of financial return. And, and you know, so, you know, we, we opened our doors, we borrowed some money, we repaid the money, and then we've basically reinvested all of that money into the company when we needed to. So we are not sitting here saying okay, you're, you know, you were relying on us for a dividend. And you know, that doesn't, it doesn't work like that. But the, the business of beer is very difficult. And you know, you, you talked about that word passion. We, when we opened our doors, I published this list of the 10 commandments of our brewery and one of the 10 commandments was that you, you know, passion isn't something you can buy at the corner store. And I meant that with a sense of like, if you come into this, you know, you can't just throw that term around. Like you've got to live it and breathe it. And I think that that kind of what you were speaking to earlier is, is, has always been like, I think there's a lot of people that will say, I am very passionate about what I do. And I have been, and that's, you know, over the 20 plus years I've been doing this. That's that, that is a word that I would associate with, with getting out of bed every day. And it's been very, it's been very conducive to being successful. That being said, you don't have to be overly passionate, but you have to be, you still have to be passionate about getting out of bed every day, even when you're struggling, even when you're not killing it. And I can guarantee you right now, there's a lot of people when they're getting out of bed who used to kill it and were, you know, who thought they were going to kill it and are saying to themselves, man, this is, this is real. Like, and you know, how do you, how do you put your game face on and, and, and really keep, keep grinding and to tackle the, you know, look, we want to get to the other side. JD: Yeah. Yeah. And you don't want to be a long face when your consumers come in because they're going to say, Hey, I came in here for a beer and a good time. TA: I am here. I am here for a good time. Right. Any happy people? JD: Oh dear. Oh dear. Something that just came to me, which is not on the list of questions, but we are sitting in the space that Stone originated at. And you had just mentioned that you've expanded. Talk a little bit about the physical plant. What was it like when you moved in as Lost Abbey? What did you have to do to it and how many times have you expanded? TA: All right. So, when we took over in January of 2006 and Stone moved out to the facility in Escondido, they controlled at that point about 30,000 square feet of I think the building is 85,000 square feet. So, they had about a third of it. And when they moved out, we collapsed the entire building back down to their original suite, suite 104, and that suite is 7,500 square feet. So, we started with a 30-barrel brewhouse in 19, I'm sorry, in 2006. And we had 30, 7,500 square feet, including the tasting room, cold box, and our barrel warehouse. In 2009, I believe we moved across the parking lot and took over another 10,000 square feet and moved the cold box, all the barrels and our distribution. So, for awhile we had that space. We were up to about 17,000 square feet. 2012 or so we took over this suite that we're sitting in here, which was another 7,500 square feet. So that allowed us to build our packaging hall, this office, the lab, things like that. We rolled for the next few years, for the next five years. We had that 27,000 square feet of space. And then we added we added a second, third, fourth warehouse across the parking lot. And that took us to almost 40,000 square feet. And then last January we moved out of that distribution warehouse into another building here, which is now connected from the front of the street to the back. Behind us. We control 40,000 square feet under one roof line for the first time. And we moved out of the facility across the parking lot, all of our barrels and everything. So we now are under one building, one roof line. We can't drive from the packaging hall to the rest of the building. But every other building we can drive forklifts through. And that never happened. Two years ago, we owned four (forklifts) ‘cause we had four different buildings. JD: Now does Port distribute all the beers here in San Marcos? TA: Everything comes out of this facility. We are doing a batch or two a year out of the Pizza Port facility when we need to, but we don't, it's this, this facility can handle a lot more beer than we're currently making. So most, most everything that has the word Port Brewing, Lost Abbey, or Hop Concept on it has come out of San Marcos. It's only been this year that we've brewed two or three batches of beer down the street at Pizza Port. And most of that was for efficiency to do big runs of things that we could, we did a giant Hop Freshener, Hop Concept release at Costco and needed to have beer all at the same time. JD: So are you, in Costcos outside of California as well? TA: No, and that has been something we haven't really tackled or looked at. JD: Like it would be just an overwhelming amount of production yet I think... TA: Costco's pretty, pretty keen on a lot of local these days, at least for beer. So, I don't know how relevant we would, you know, we might be able to get into some in Arizona, maybe in Washington and Northern California, but you know, there's a ton of breweries in each of those locations. Tapping the same buyer on the shoulder saying, can I get, can I get in here? And, and the buyers probably got enough options that they don't even need something from out of here. And frankly, the cost associated with getting it to them would almost make it prohibitive in terms of trying to put it on the shelf at their right price point. JD: Yeah. Have you ever had to turn down any kind of requests because you just knew that trying to fill that big an order was going to just break you? TA: No, we've, we've been pretty lucky in the sense that when we do get we just came off of couple of pretty good-sized Costco orders and they were about 40 pallets worth of beer. But the brewery can handle that without being too burdened in the sense. I mean, it's certainly a lot of attention on one thing but we're not overly stretched at our capacity right now. So, when those things pop up, we certainly snap at them and want, you know we wanna make sure we execute on it. If we were making a lot more beer, we probably would have, we would struggle with that a little more. But when you get an order for 40 pallets of beer, you figure it out, you know, you really do. JD: When we walked back here, we passed one of your employees building a bike. What other sorts of things do you do with the employees or for the employees to support maybe their self-education, other interests that they have, things like that. TA: We've definitely put it on our radar this year. We've lost a lot of employees in the last two years. I think we've turned over 20 employees and we only have about 50 total. So, we've put an emphasis on that level of communication, you know, what can we do to assist you in this endeavor? It's not something that we've programmed in the past or been terribly good at. That being said, we haven't, we have really seen that there are some simple opportunities to do things like that and Tim's running his own small bike shop and it's just a, you know, it's a pocket, pocketed space here at the brewery. You know, we've announced that if there's other brewer or other brewery employees from the tasting room all the way up that have an idea, we would love to hear about it. We don't make a dime on it. There's no, there's no real emphasis towards, you know, trying to co-partner on things. It's just we, we want to, we want to foster the opportunities if it makes sense. And Tim's the pilot sort of program right now with the bike, the little bike shop that he's running and it gets interesting, I hope. I hope it sparks other employees to say, okay, cool, I've wanted to do this, that or the other and it looks like I could and come to us and say, ‘Oh, could you carve out this space again?’ We are, we are under more, more efficient space right now and we do have a little bit of room. So, I hope that, I hope somebody else says, okay, I want to do this and it, and it fits the needs and the use and isn't a big deal. It'd be great because it means that we can, we can continue to lift what they want to be a part of and retain them at some time. JD: Yeah. Very good. It was fun. Oh, okay. Well, I think that pretty much has run through my list plus of questions for you about your career, your history, and what's going on with Lost Abbey/Port Brewing. And I want to thank you for that. And I'm going to go ahead and turn this off. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en audio Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the university. 
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Title
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Arthur, Tomme. Interview August 8, 2019
Description
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Tomme Arthur has been involved in several San Diego breweries, most notably as founder and managing owner of Lost Abbey Brewing located in San Marcos, CA. His first professional brewing position was at the short-lived Cervecería La Cruda in San Diego, California. Arthur moved to Pizza Port Brewing in Solana Beach, California as an assistant brewer. After becoming Director of Brewing Operations for the increasing number of locations, he led the chain in garnering numerous beer awards. Arthur opened Lost Abbey Brewing in 2006 to focus on his interest in Belgian-style beers. In late 2023, Arthur separated Lost Abbey from Port Brewing operations in a ‘right-sizing’ plan in response to beer industry trends. Port Brewing retained the Hop Concept, Tiny Bubbles, and Kharisma brands in their portfolio and took over the San Marcos production space and closed the tasting room. Lost Abbey entered an alternating proprietorship agreement with Mother Earth Brewing to share their production space in nearby Vista, CA.
In his 2019 interview, Arthur discusses his introduction to craft beer and home brewing; entry into the profession and work at various breweries beginning in the 1990s; founding Lost Abbey Brewing and other brewery ventures; mentoring individuals in the industry; and awards.
Identifier
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SC027-044
Subject
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Brewers -- California -- San Diego County
Brewing industry -- California -- History
Lost Abbey Brewing (San Marcos, Calif.)
Microbreweries -- California -- San Diego County
Date
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2019-08-08
Format
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audio
Creator
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Tomme Arthur
Contributor
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Judith Downie
Coverage
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San Marcos (Calif.)
Publisher
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California State University San Marcos University Library
Language
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English
Rights Holder
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California State University San Marcos
Brewchive(r)