7 10 196 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/57472b9333efa19b9ebe8960b41ee200.jpg 78719f1ce978bea4311b31c24fd55ffe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joe's Pluming cartoon Description An account of the resource This cartoon was submitted by Greg Evans to Playboy Magazine when he was eleven years old. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Greg Evans https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/66a2b1c382db3edb43d61109e166cfd7.jpg a7bdc4a3ce73b3f1bb934a178c6fb8c9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Two Guys comic strip Description An account of the resource This is a photograph of one of Greg Evans' early ideas for a comic strip. https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/fb841c79c6e1cf90c170666c56a9e32a.jpg b9f360d9a7e6e072fc17c96afa546cf8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Seamy Heights comic strip Description An account of the resource This is a photograph of one of Greg Evans' early ideas for a comic strip. https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/c77ab444004d9f888e5725e96492b391.jpg e80723aa476b5a493714592d62bdf4cc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource MaXwel the Robot Description An account of the resource This is a photograph of MaXwel the Robot. Running this robot for entertainment purposes was one of Greg Evans' early jobs. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evans, Greg and Karen. Photographs, March 25, 2025. Description An account of the resource Four photos related to the oral history of Greg and Karen Evans. Photograph #1, "Joe's Pluming Cartoon," was drawn by Greg Evans for submission to Playboy Magazine when he was eleven years old. Photograph #2, "Two Guys Comic Strip," is one of Greg Evans' early ideas for a comic strip. Photograph #3, "Seamy Heights Comic Strip," was one of Greg Evans' early ideas for a comic strip. Photograph #4, "MaXwel the Robot," is a photograph of a robot. Running MaXwel the Robot for entertainment purposes was one of Greg Evans' early jobs. Click on the thumbnails to view the full images in more detail. https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/7f72e1cce3c6fed5bc5600bafc040034.png ba4bfc8c99a3d48117506493f5f2b84a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource EvansG_250px https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/010490bb4e1eee6c6b68387114144d01.png a77bcbe5e028ea6754d6a4ff36186b85 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource EvansK_250px Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jason Beyer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed James Robert Forster II OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=ForsterJamesRobert_BeyerJason_2022-11-22_access.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Veteran United States Air Force;Vietnamese Conflict, 1961-1975;Korea;aircraft mechanic;Staff Sergeant OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 6.0 Forster II, James Robert. Interview November 22nd, 2024. SC027-070 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm Veteran United States Air Force ; Vietnamese Conflict, 1961-1975 ; Korea ; aircraft mechanic ; Staff Sergeant James Robert Forster II Jason Beyer Moving Image ForsterJamesRobert_BeyerJason_2022-11-22_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/ec56e576cd1e3f6843c0218021dd47d3.mp4 Other video English 0 Interview Introduction 0 69 Military Background Forster served in the U.S. Air Force and attained his highest rank of E5 Staff Sergeant. He served in Korea during the Vietnam War. United States Air Force ; E5 Staff Sergeant ; Korea ; Vietnam War 0 91 Youth and Enlistment Raised in Wichita, Kansas then San Jose, California, Forster had a high draft number, so he enlisted into the Air Force for aircraft maintenance training. Wichita (Kan.) ; San Jose (Calif.) ; West Valley College ; Kenny's Shoe Store ; newspaper delivery ; enlistment ; aircraft maintenance ; training 0 201 Training and Promotions As a crew chief and flight mechanic, Forster did maintenance for many aircraft. He also recalls his training instructors and promotions. crew chief ; C-97 ; C-121 ; C-47 ; flight mechanic ; McClellan Air Force Base ; Sacramento (Calif.) ; wing commander ; 552nd Air Control Wing ; airborne early warning and control ; North American Aerospace Defense Command ; instructor ; promotion ; Airman First Class ; Korea 0 431 Adapting to the Military Lifestyle Forster recalls his challenging unaccompanied tour to Korea, which strained his marriage and included harsh weather. He appreciated the military’s reliable chain of command. Forster tells a story about refusing to let a colonel fly his airplane and how the chain of command supported his decision. unaccompanied tour ; Korea ; Sacramento (Calif.) ; winter ; monsoon ; chain of command ; non-commissioned officer ; full bird colonel 0 615 Reflections on Serving in Korea during the Vietnam War Forster was part of the replenishment of relieving the Air National Guard from Korea. Most of his work entailed flying passengers and mail. In hindsight, he reflects on how much better he had it than the aircraft mechanics in Vietnam. Navy ; USS Pueblo ; North China Sea ; Air National Guard ; Korea ; Frontier Airlines ; Braniff Airlines ; American Airlines ; Transamerica ; Douglas AC-47 Spooky ; Agent Orange ; Osan (Korea) ; Kunsan (Korea) ; Gwangju (Korea) ; Daegu (Korea) 0 749 Camaraderie and Recreation Forster’s fondest memories with his military comrades were in the bar they set up in the barracks day room. The bar was their main place to recreate when off duty, although some did Taekwondo and other activities. He also mimics a Korean houseboy who took care of the common areas. camaraderie ; friendship ; non-commissioned officer ; Air Force Times ; flight engineers ; flight mechanics ; day room ; barracks ; bar ; the Airman's Club ; beer ; recreation ; Taekwondo ; Korean ; houseboy 0 909 In-Flight Emergencies Forster recalls flying over Japan at Mount Fujiyama in a C-47. It was during a severe winter storm with strong winds, and he almost ran out of fuel. in-flight emergencies ; pre-flight ; Mount Fuji (Japan) ; C-47 ; Tokyo (Japan) ; wind ; storm ; winter 0 1007 Socializing with Locals, Sea Survival School, and Interactions with the Second Chinese Air Force in Taiwan Forster had great experiences with local people. While in Sea Survival School in Okinawa at Kadena Air Base, he saw flying missions to Vietnam, including an SR-71. He also recalls flying to Taiwan to pick up a C-47. He was very impressed by the “Second Chinese Air Force.” Japan ; Okinawa (Japan) ; Korea ; locals ; Sea Survival School ; Kadena Air Base ; SR-71 ; inspect and repair as necessary ; Taipei (Taiwan) ; Taichung (Taiwan) ; Second Chinese Air Force ; gunship ; C-47 ; C-119 ; C-130 0 1315 Ending Service, Returning Home, Readjusting to Civilian Life, Work, and the G.I. Bill Forster drove across the country from MacDill Air Force Base to San Jose, California. He recalls returning home during the height of the Vietnam War and the anti-war movement. In his words, “There was no welcome for the returning veteran.” Nevertheless, he went back to school, met his wife, and got an MBA using the G.I. Bill. He worked at an insurance company and had a Farmers Insurance agency for 10 years. MacDill Air Force Base ; Tampa (Fla.) ; San Jose (Calif.) ; parents ; veteran ; protest ; college ; sociology ; wife ; marriage ; Farmers Insurance ; insurance agency ; G.I. Bill ; National University ; Master of Business Administration 0 1484 Continuing Friendships and Veterans Organizations Forster lost track of most friends from military service. He joined the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) but left because they could not decide whether he was an Army veteran or an Air Force veteran. friendship ; Portland (Or.) ; Veterans of Foreign Wars ; Army veteran ; Air Force veteran 0 1532 Reflections on Life After Military Service Forster talks about his wife, his children, his grandchildren, and his travels with family. He says military service taught him that “your word is your bond.” CSU San Marcos ; San Diego (Calif.) ; Sapphire Princess Cruise ; Caribbean ; Disney World ; COVID ; El Cajon (Calif.) ; school 0 1656 What People Should Know About Veterans and a Message for Future Generations Forster encourages anyone enlisting in the military to be open minded. He says military service can include many positive experiences, like travel and education. Forster recounts how his training could have an aircraft maintenance career, but he ultimately chose the insurance business. military ; veterans ; Air Force ; Korea ; Okinawa (Japan) ; Taipei (Taiwan) ; United Airlines ; Chicago (Ill.) ; aircraft mechanic ; insurance business 0 Oral history James Robert Forster II served in Korea as a crew chief and flight mechanic for the U.S. Air Force during the Vietnam War and reached his highest rank of E5 Staff Sergeant. Forster recalled the challenges of an unaccompanied tour to Korea, the strains it put on his first marriage, as well as his return home during the height of the anti-war movement. He praised the education and experiences he gained from military service, including travel, recreation, training, and the G.I. Bill. After military service, Forster worked in the insurance business and met his wife at university. He reflected on his family, travels after retirement, and the life lessons he learned from military service. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:01:06.325 My name is Jason Victor Beyer. I'm a graduate of California State University San Marcos. Today I will be interviewing James Robert Forester II. Today's date is Friday, November 22, 2024. We are located inside the Kellogg Library at California State University San Marcos, located at 333 South Twin Oaks Valley Road, San Marcos, California 92096. My relationship to the interviewee is that we are both military veterans. The names of the people attending this interview are the interviewer, Jason Victor Beyer, the interviewee, James Robert Forster II, Marilyn Huerta, and camera operator, Adel Bautista. Today's purpose of the interview is to conduct an oral history. Please state your full name, first, middle, and last name. 00:01:06.325 --> 00:01:09.344 James Robert Forster II. 00:01:09.344 --> 00:01:10.775 Your branch of service. 00:01:10.775 --> 00:01:13.025 United States Air Force. 00:01:13.025 --> 00:01:15.775 The highest ranked you attained. 00:01:15.775 --> 00:01:18.015 E5 Staff Sergeant. 00:01:18.015 --> 00:01:23.314 And the war or conflict that you served during your time of service. 00:01:23.314 --> 00:01:31.685 During Vietnam—actually in Korea, but that was during the Vietnam conflict. 00:01:31.685 --> 00:01:38.105 Thank you. So today we'll begin with your biographical details. Where were you born? 00:01:38.105 --> 00:01:40.215 Wichita, Kansas. 00:01:40.215 --> 00:01:44.515 What was life like in Wichita, Kansas for you? 00:01:44.515 --> 00:01:59.155 I attended elementary school till fourth grade, and then we moved from Wichita, Kansas for a job transfer for my father to San Jose, California. 00:01:59.155 --> 00:02:04.245 Does your family have any past affiliations with the military? 00:02:04.245 --> 00:02:11.444 Yes, my uncle, my father, my grandfather—each of them served in the military. 00:02:11.444 --> 00:02:16.175 Did that play a role in your joining the military? 00:02:16.175 --> 00:02:39.405 I was a student at West Valley Junior College (West Valley College) and not doing well academically. The draft came around in '67 and my number was high, so rather than be drafted I joined on delayed enlistment into the Air Force so I could get training. 00:02:39.405 --> 00:02:44.145 Did you hold any jobs prior to entering the military service? 00:02:44.145 --> 00:02:54.155 Yes, I sold shoes for Kenny's Shoe Store and delivered newspapers—those kind of things. 00:02:54.155 --> 00:03:04.544 When and why did you choose to join the military? So you said you weren't drafted, but why specifically did you choose the branch of the Air Force? 00:03:04.544 --> 00:03:21.395 So I could have aircraft maintenance schooling. I spent nine months in tech school after basic training to learn aircraft maintenance. 00:03:21.395 --> 00:03:33.544 For your early days of service, what is your most vivid memory, both the best and worst parts of training of your time during school in the Air Force. 00:03:33.544 --> 00:04:07.034 I had to learn different aircraft in their operations—the engine, the airframes. As a crew chief, I was responsible for all of those things to ensure that they worked well. I worked on C-97s, I worked on C-121s, I worked on C-47s, and flew for two years on C-47s as a flight mechanic. 00:04:07.034 --> 00:04:12.525 What was your first assignment like after basic training? 00:04:12.525 --> 00:04:55.415 I was sent to McClellan Air Force Base in Sacramento, California, and I was assigned to the Wing Commander of the 552nd Airborne early warning and control wing's squadron commander. So I was a crew chief on that aircraft. It was different than the airborne early warning that the C-121s did for NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command), but all we did was make sure that that airplane is ready when the wing commander wanted to go somewhere. So we spent a lot of time cleaning and prepping. 00:04:55.415 --> 00:05:00.095 Do you recall your instructors while you were in training? 00:05:00.095 --> 00:05:03.555 Not by name. 00:05:03.555 --> 00:05:05.884 Do you recall what they were like? 00:05:05.884 --> 00:05:31.204 They were demanding, because what we did people's lives depended upon, and they wanted to ensure that we as the airmen understood how important it was for the aircraft to be air worthy and safe for flight. That's what we were taught and instilled in us. 00:05:31.204 --> 00:05:42.485 Did you qualify with equipment such as vehicles, aircraft, radios, weapons? If so, what was that training with that equipment like? 00:05:42.485 --> 00:06:19.574 We did total—(Forster coughs)—total airframe, from ensuring that the aircraft was ready for flight—it was fueled, it was oiled and it was pre-flighted so that when the pilots came to the aircraft, it was ready to go—as close as it could be. 00:06:19.574 --> 00:06:25.105 Did you receive any promotions, and if so, could you tell me about them? 00:06:25.105 --> 00:07:11.704 I was promoted to Airman First Class probably when I went—when I was assigned to Korea. That's E4, and you have to pass a test. You have to demonstrate competency on the equipment, understanding of the aircraft system and systems. And then once you've done that test, then the promotion is awarded, but it's not awarded until you've earned it. So each promotion was based on merit. 00:07:11.704 --> 00:07:17.264 What was the hardest part of the military lifestyle for you to adopt to. 00:07:17.264 --> 00:07:21.074 Unaccompanied tour to Korea. 00:07:21.074 --> 00:07:23.764 Why do you think that was? 00:07:23.764 --> 00:08:07.735 I just got married in Sacramento, and it was my first time overseas. And, unaccompanied tours are hard on both parties of the relationship. It was—the work in Korea, it has a severe winter and a severe monsoon season in the spring. And operating aircraft under harsh conditions is a challenge all in and of itself. 00:08:07.735 --> 00:08:13.514 So combined with the weather conditions, it created an even harder hardship— 00:08:13.514 --> 00:08:16.074 Yeah. Yeah. 00:08:16.074 --> 00:08:21.865 What was the easiest part of the military lifestyle for you to adopt to. 00:08:21.865 --> 00:08:36.375 I liked the hierarchy. You know that the chain of command works and if you follow the chain of command that everything will go smooth. 00:08:36.375 --> 00:08:46.375 What were your interactions like with people you encountered while you were doing your stateside service? 00:08:46.375 --> 00:10:15.904 Each of the NCOs (non-commissioned officers) that were teaching the aircraft maintenance and the specifics of it were concerned about the airman's capability of teaching and learning complex systems and working within a framework to make the aircraft airworthy. And I took that extremely seriously. There were times when the aircraft was not ready to go. And in aircraft maintenance records, you can red "x" it if there's a safety issue. I did—had a full bird colonel in Korea who wanted to take my airplane for some kind of flight. I told him, "Sir, you cannot take this airplane. It's grounded." And I—the reasons for it were in the aircraft maintenance records. He said, "Well, I wanna take it." And I said, "Fine, let's go to the wing commander. We'll go to the wing commander, and if you can convince him that you can take this aircraft, then it's safe even though I told you it's not safe—you go right ahead." He did not go to the wing commander. (Forster coughs.) Excuse me. 00:10:15.904 --> 00:10:21.924 So you served in Korea during while the Vietnam War was happening? 00:10:21.924 --> 00:12:29.683 Yes. The Navy lost a ship called the Pueblo in the North China Sea. And the military was staffed by the Air National Guard. So I was part of the replenishment of relieving the Air National Guard from Korea so they could go back to their jobs in industry. I met pilots from Frontier Airlines, Braniff Airlines, American Airlines, Transamerica—and that's why I went to Korea. I didn't realize at the time that it was a blessing that I was sent to Korea rather than to Vietnam, because my aircraft in Vietnam had a name called Spooky. It was mounted with a Gatling gun, a .50 caliber machine gun, and a spotlight in the back cargo door, and it flew night missions only after Agent Orange had been defoliated. I didn't know at the time that I had a much better position—job position—than, you know, just—I was just flying passengers and mail from Osan to Kunsan to Gwangju to Daegu, like an airliner route. So we did that in the morning and had lunch in Daegu and then flew back in the afternoon. That was basically what we did. But, you know, I didn't realize, like I said before, that the—(Forster coughs)—duty in Korea, while harsh—(coughs)—was way different than what I would've experienced had I've been sent to Vietnam with all my other fellow aircraft mechanics. 00:12:29.683 --> 00:12:39.865 What was your—did you create any friendships or camaraderie with people that you served with while in Korea? 00:12:39.865 --> 00:13:31.000 Yes. Each person you get to be friends with and you learn who's friendly, you know? And the senior NCOs were really good. We had a crew of flight engineers, or flight mechanics, who—they were called—we were called the Bush Airline. And I gave you a copy of the article that was in the Air Force Times, talking about the Bush Airline. We just talked about the mission that we did in Korea, and, um (long pause)— 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:32.000 —Um— 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.835 —I just drew blank. Go ahead. Ask me another question— 00:13:34.835 --> 00:13:40.065 —No worries. What did you do for recreation or when you were off duty? 00:13:40.065 --> 00:14:34.225 Oh! In our barracks, we had a day room, and we set up a bar in that day room. And that picture that I gave you—of me with the Olympia beer can—I was helping run the bar in the barracks. So whenever we were not flying and not scheduled to work, we were able to drink right there. We didn't have to go to the Airman's Club. We had our own thing, and we stocked it with beer, and that's that kind of thing. It was an off duty place to recreate, I guess. Some of the guys went to Taekwondo, some of us just did other odd activities. 00:14:34.225 --> 00:14:40.000 Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual events during your off time? 00:14:40.000 --> 00:15:09.845 Well, there were so many amazing events at the bar. You know, you have to send people home—say, No, you have to go to your bunk. You can't stay here anymore (Forster laughs). But we had a Korean houseboy who took care of the common areas, and he took care of our bar. And he says, "You keep it clean" (Forster mimics accents, Beyer and Forster laugh). 00:15:09.845 --> 00:15:23.000 When you would fly on missions or in the aircraft, was there anything that you did for good luck while you were—before or after the flight? Or did it just become common that— 00:15:23.000 --> 00:16:47.404 —It's common. You do the pre-flight, you ensure that the aircraft is capable, and then you just go. We did have in-flight emergencies on several occasions. One time we were flying over Japan at Mount Fujiyama, and the wind was really severe. And the aircraft that—C-47 doesn't fly very fast. Maybe a hundred knots. You know, it's not much more than a hundred knots. And the winds were 80 knots, so we weren't making much ground speed. And the aircraft—you're flying at 10,000 feet, and at the top ceiling, and the mountain is higher than where you're flying. And when we landed in Tokyo, that particular flight, I dipped the tanks and we had, like, a very small amount of fuel. I don't know the exact amount, but it was almost out of fuel. So, but that was a severe winter and severe storm, and we flew right through it. 00:16:47.404 --> 00:17:03.365 So, what were your interactions like with the local cultures and the people you encountered while you were in Japan ; Okinawa, Japan ; or in Korea? 00:17:03.365 --> 00:21:55.865 The local people were great. Let's see, we'll talk about—in Japan, they brought us—the base flight brought us our fuel, our oil, our in-flight meals. And they're real accommodating, you know? Whatever you want—they bring you hot coffee, whatever, out to the flight line. In Okinawa, we—because I was flying people and over water, you had to go to Sea Survival School. So I was at Sea Survival School in Okinawa at Kadena Air Base. They—(Forster coughs, long pause). When the Sea Survival School was going on, part of it was we were dropped in the ocean in one-man life rafts. And the shark repellent is discharged around your life rafts, and you're left there for, I think it was eight hours—it seemed like forever. But the most important part about that is I was able to observe aircraft operations from Kadena Air Base. They were flying missions to Vietnam from Kadena. I saw an SR-71, which the military never admitted existed until recently. If you wanna see an SR-71, you have to go to the aerospace museum. That's where one is available for you to see. But they would—it just had two tails, and they would bring it out of the revetment, and bring (it) to the end of the runway. And they did very little run up time. They didn't want anybody to be able to see that aircraft, because obviously they didn't want it to be known that it existed. So they do—(Forster coughs)—a short run up, and then take off and stand it on its tail. And it was out of sight—less than a minute, just gone. And I found out later that those were flying bombing runs to Vietnam. (Forster coughs.) So then, another time—that was the Sea Survival School. Another time we went to pick up an airplane from the Second Chinese Air Force I.R.A.N. (Inspect and Repair As Necessary). It's done in Taipei, Taichung—or "Taichay," Taichung—but Taipei. Anyhow, the Second Chinese Air Force did extensive overhauls for military aircraft. When we flew in there, we went in to pick up one C-47. That was not a gunship, just one of ours. And I saw a whole line of C-47 gunships, C-119 gunships, and C-130 gunships that's a sign that the Second Chinese Air Force was doing—it's a major overhaul. They take everything off of the engine, they—engines off—and then they put it back together, and they have really high maintenance standards. When we got the engine and engine runup after it came out of the inspection, there was no oil leaks on—a recip (reciprocating) engine is notorious for a lot of oil leaks, not a little bit, but it is always leaking something somewhere. And the Second Chinese Air Force did such a good job that we had clean engines—when brought it up, opened the cowling up, was clean. Our engine people rarely did work that good. You know, so I have a great deal of respect for the people from the maintenance facility at the Second Chinese Air Force. 00:21:55.865 --> 00:22:02.045 Do you recall the day your service ended? Where were you when your service ended? 00:22:02.045 --> 00:22:20.105 I was at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida, getting an "early out" to go to school. I drove cross country from MacDill Air Force Base back to San Jose, California. 00:22:20.105 --> 00:22:21.884 So you returned home? 00:22:21.884 --> 00:22:25.144 I returned to my parents' house, yeah. 00:22:25.144 --> 00:22:28.983 How were you received by your family and community when you— 00:22:28.983 --> 00:23:54.743 —By my family, fine. By the community and not for (redacted)—excuse my language. I have a tendency to be pretty frank. There was no welcome for the returning veteran. None. You know, it was at the height of the Vietnam War, the protests were going on, and I was going back to college, and I ended up in a sociology class called, Introduction to Marriage and Family. That was the only class that I could register for. And, having gone through a messy divorce while I was in the service, I was not a real joiner. You know, I was good time guy, but I didn't want anything to do with serious things. And, I ended up with—the marriage and family instructor had the class divided into groups, and they had one group with six women and me, and I ended up in that group and met my wife there. We will be married 52 years on December 9th. So, it stuck. 00:23:54.743 --> 00:24:03.265 How did you readjust to civilian life? Did you go back to work? You said you went to school. What did you do after school? 00:24:03.265 --> 00:24:24.414 I worked for an insurance company for like almost 10 years. I trained insurance agents. And then I went into my own insurance agency. I had a Farmers Insurance agency for 10 years. 00:24:24.414 --> 00:24:28.000 Did the GI Bill affect you while you were going to school? Did that help you go to— 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:28.664 —Yeah— 00:24:28.664 --> 00:24:28.674 —school? 00:24:28.674 --> 00:24:44.025 Yeah. Yeah, I went to National University, completed my—what was left of my VA, and completed my MBA on the GI Bill. That was what, '78? 00:24:44.025 --> 00:24:50.194 Did you continue any friendships after this service, and if so, for how long? 00:24:50.194 --> 00:25:04.105 One of my friends is still in Portland, and I've lost track with almost everybody else. 00:25:04.105 --> 00:25:07.243 Did you join any veterans organizations? 00:25:07.243 --> 00:25:32.144 I joined the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars). But when the VFW couldn't seem to get their act together, and they couldn't decide whether I was an Army veteran or an Air Force veteran, I stopped doing business with them (Forster laughs). I said, If you don't know who I am or where I come from, I don't need to be here paying you dues (laughs). 00:25:32.144 --> 00:25:41.154 How has your service impacted your life, your community, your faith, and your family? 00:25:41.154 --> 00:27:09.605 That's—that's a big bunch (laughs). My service affected my life. I always had strong beliefs. I was fortunate enough to meet a strong woman who was able to help me in my shortcomings. We raised two kids together, one of which graduated from here (CSU San Marcos) in 2005. The other son is a tax auditor for the city of San Diego. And, we travel together. We were just recently on a Sapphire Princess Cruise to the Caribbean. We had a ten day cruise, and then we went two days to Disney World. And the kids are really important, and we just—our first granddaughter was born during COVID time. She's five years old, and she just started private school in El Cajon. I don't know if she'll ever go to a public school again. But— 00:27:09.605 --> 00:27:15.105 What are some life lessons you learned from your military service. 00:27:15.105 --> 00:27:36.694 About, your word is your bond. You need to be accountable for the things that you say, and you need to stand by your words and be complete with everyone that you deal with. 00:27:36.694 --> 00:27:46.855 What message would you like to leave for future generations who will view or hear this interview? 00:27:46.855 --> 00:28:42.505 I would like everyone to realize that when you go into the military or you go into an unfamiliar situation and you go with an open mind and an open heart, you're going to learn things that may not be in the book. They may not be—(Forster coughs)—what you think you should be, but you need to listen to your heart, I guess. But you need to learn from people who offer their knowledge. And it may not always make sense. It's important to be open to new opportunities and apply yourself. 00:28:42.505 --> 00:28:58.204 Thank you for taking the time to share your recollections of your military service. Is there anything you've always wanted to share about your service or veteran experience that you never had before? 00:28:58.204 --> 00:29:01.095 No, I don't think so. 00:29:01.095 --> 00:29:05.414 What do you wish more people knew about veterans? 00:29:05.414 --> 00:30:29.144 That they are people who have the same wants and aspirations as you do, but have chosen to go into the service for whatever reason they go there. But they end up benefiting much more than they expected because you learn from life experiences, you learn from positive experiences. In the Air Force, I didn't get to see a lot of the world, but I did see a lot more than most people do. You know, in my experiences of going to Korea, or going to Okinawa, or to Taipei to the overall facility. All of those are learning experiences, and each one you meet people who are really important to the operation, to the aircraft, to the people. And they have a tendency to consider that it's important that you understand the reasons why you're doing something as well as doing it well. 00:30:29.144 --> 00:30:36.944 In your unveiling of the journey, what are the lessons learned from your military experience? 00:30:36.944 --> 00:31:43.934 There are so, so many. You know, I just, I learned a skill that I did not know before I went in. It could have taken a job—a job, um, what I wanna say—a job, uh, United Airlines—I was offered a job when I came back from the Air Force. One of my friends, my parents' neighbors was a corporate attorney for United Airlines. And he says, We can send you to Chicago to our maintenance facility. You can be an aircraft mechanic there. And I just met my wife and I said, My desire to work in harsh environments again is not something I wanna do (Forster laughs, coughs). So I turned him down, and I ended going into the insurance business. 00:31:43.934 --> 00:31:45.535 Thank you for your time today. 00:31:45.535 --> 00:31:46.535 Thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the &#13 ; creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. &#13 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=ForsterJamesRobert_BeyerJason_2022-11-22_access.xml ForsterJamesRobert_BeyerJason_2022-11-22_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Forster II, James Robert. Interview November 22nd, 2024. Description An account of the resource James Robert Forster II served in Korea as a crew chief and flight mechanic for the U.S. Air Force during the Vietnam War and reached his highest rank of E5 Staff Sergeant. Forster recalled the challenges of an unaccompanied tour to Korea, the strains it put on his first marriage, as well as his return home during the height of the anti-war movement. He praised the education and experiences he gained from military service, including travel, recreation, training, and the G.I. Bill. After military service, Forster worked in the insurance business and met his wife at university. He reflected on his family, travels after retirement, and the life lessons he learned from military service. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-070 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-11-22 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource James Robert Forster II Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Marilyn Huerta Adel Bautista Subject The topic of the resource United States. Air Force—Veterans Vietnamese Conflict, 1961-1975 Aircraft mechanics United States. Air Force—Noncommissioned officers West Valley College (Saratoga, Calif.) McClellan Air Force Base (Calif.) Kadena Air Base (Okinawa-ken, Japan) MacDill Air Force Base (Fla.) National University (San Diego, Calif.) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Korea Vietnam Wichita (Kan.) San Jose (Calif.) Sacramento (Calif.) North China Sea Osan (Korea) Kunsan (Korea) Gwangju (Korea) Daegu (Korea) Mount Fuji (Japan) Tokyo (Japan) Okinawa (Japan) Taipei (Taiwan) Taichung (Taiwan) Tampa (Fla.) Portland (Or.) San Diego (Calif.) Caribbean El Cajon (Calif.) Chicago (Ill.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. James Robert Forster II License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving image Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. San Diego Veterans History Initiative Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/60d04d09e3a166c4f22b5b1a4bd5c541.jpg ddd340034bb3c3d8eecf4efbfe47152f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Basic Training Description An account of the resource Forster II at basic training Lackland Airforce Base in 1967 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/a5072c5231a93bd4d71b6c041fd6235b.jpg 1282d05fdbfe1d268ea39500bc2d876a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tech School Description An account of the resource Forster II at tech school at Sheppard Air Force Base, WIchita Falls, Texas, 1968 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/95110933944e95874d25d598da74b0ab.jpg bc4d7024608e94661981266062ceba94 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource C-47 Description An account of the resource A C-47 plane from flight squadron VC-470 at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, 1969 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/1293751ab6c59ecd22abf820ca69bd04.jpg 17936bec27bc9104dbdd66278dcefcfb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Osan Air Base Description An account of the resource Forster II at Osan Air Base, South Korea, 1969 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Forster, James Robert II. Photographs, Various dates. Description An account of the resource Four photos related to the oral history of James Robert Forster II. Photograph #1 depicts Forster II at basic training Lackland Airforce Base in 1967. Photograph #2 depicts Forster II at tech school at Sheppard Air Force Base, WIchita Falls, Texas, 1968. Photograph #3 depicts a C-47 plane from flight squadron VC-470 at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, 1969. Photograph #4 depicts Forster II at Osan Air Base, South Korea, 1969. Click on the thumbnails to view the full images in more detail. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967 - 1969 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/ce87bf32829b06de7c64c4eb2cb64a5b.pdf 6b89a347e47776704b3c2f7de279a7e6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Forster, James. Interview Transcript, November 22, 2024. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource James Robert Forster II Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Adel Bautista Marilyn Huerta Justin Gans Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-11-22 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. James Robert Forster II Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ForsterJames_BeyerJason_2024-11-22_transcript Description An account of the resource James Robert Forster II served in Korea as a crew chief and flight mechanic for the U.S. Air Force during the Vietnam War and reached his highest rank of E5 Staff Sergeant. Forster recalled the challenges of an unaccompanied tour to Korea, the strains it put on his first marriage, as well as his return home during the height of the anti-war movement. He praised the education and experiences he gained from military service, including travel, recreation, training, and the G.I. Bill. After military service, Forster worked in the insurance business and met his wife at university. He reflected on his family, travels after retirement, and the life lessons he learned from military service. License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a> Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. San Diego Veterans History Initiative Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Korea Vietnam Wichita (Kan.) San Jose (Calif.) Sacramento (Calif.) North China Sea Osan (Korea) Kunsan (Korea) Gwangju (Korea) Daegu (Korea) Mount Fuji (Japan) Tokyo (Japan) Okinawa (Japan) Taipei (Taiwan) Taichung (Taiwan) Tampa (Fla.) Portland (Or.) San Diego (Calif.) Caribbean El Cajon (Calif.) Chicago (Ill.) Type The nature or genre of the resource text Subject The topic of the resource United States. Air Force—Veterans Vietnamese Conflict, 1961-1975 Aircraft mechanics United States. Air Force—Noncommissioned officers West Valley College (Saratoga, Calif.) McClellan Air Force Base (Calif.) Kadena Air Base (Okinawa-ken, Japan) MacDill Air Force Base (Fla.) National University (San Diego, Calif.) California State University San Marcos Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Madeleine Meyer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jay Franklin OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=FranklinJay_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-12.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 Franklin, Jay. Interview April 12, 2023. SC027-026 35:02 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library Special Collections oral history collection CSUSM This oral history interview was generously funded through the Instructionally Related Activities Fund at California State University San Marcos. California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center California State University San Marcos. Student Affairs Education, Higher Human rights LGBTQ+ activism Jay Franklin Madeleine Meyer Moving Image FranklinJay_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-12.mp4 1:|15(10)|33(6)|47(4)|68(3)|81(15)|94(15)|119(13)|131(12)|148(1)|168(5)|187(1)|205(9)|228(1)|239(13)|271(14)|283(11)|308(14)|327(6)|341(5)|355(2)|370(14)|385(16)|407(8)|442(6)|474(11)|485(4)|510(13)|523(8)|540(16)|554(14)|566(6)|600(7)|625(1)|635(12)|653(8) 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/6bbcdb372d4f92f0e23c4484059a9d18.mp4 Other video English 0 Interview introduction + Franklin's early life and education prior to CSUSM Jay Franklin reflects on his educational journey as well as the cross-country move he made that landed him back in California, where he was born, ultimately leading to a career change from cosmetology to academia. Cosmetology ; Education ; Military Family ; San Diego ; Tidewater Community College, Virginia Beach ; Virginia Beach, Virginia 220 Franklin enrolls at California State San Marcos for his B.A. in 2005. Franklin discusses his decision to attend CSUSM, as well as giving a general outline of his path back to the university once he had his undergraduate degree. Bridgepoint Education/Asher University ; California State University San Marcos ; Careers in higher education ; City College ; Higher education ; Matriculation Coordinator ; San Diego ; San Diego State University ; San Marcos 375 Finding Student Life and Leadership Franklin describes joining a campus LGBTQ+ organization, the stealing of the student organization's banner, and his encountering of Student Life and Leadership and the Multicultural Programs Office through that act of hate. Hate crimes on campus ; Hillcrest ; Inclusivity ; LGBTQIA+ ; Marketing ; Pride Center 508 Early engagement with the Cross-Cultural Center (then known as the Multicultural Programs office) Franklin discusses working with Multicultural Programs to gather resources for the LGBTQ+ student organization. Frankling describes the draw of the then Multicultural Center including its patrons and the space itself. American Indian Student Association ; Asian Pacific Islander Desi American ; Black Student Union ; California State University San Marcos ; California State University San Marcos-- Student Life and Leadership ; Campus resources ; Community building ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Inclusion ; Movimentio Estudiantil Chicano de Azltlán ; Representation on campus ; Self-expression ; Vietnamese Student Association 722 Franklin becomes a peer educator at the Multicultural Center in Spring 2007. Franklin recalls working as a peer educator at the Multicultural Center (Cross-Cultural Center), and learning about student affairs as a career. Activism ; California State University San Marcos-- Student Life and Leadership ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Marketing ; Peer educators 876 Programs and outreach at the Cross-Cultural Center. Franklin recalls being a &quot ; marketing machine&quot ; and peer educators working with their communities for outreach. Activism ; Campus community ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Identity ; Marketing ; Outreach 971 Understanding the under-served campus community. Franklin describes the allure of food in driving attendance to events. He also describes workshops dedicated to finding funding for student organization programming. California State University San Marcos-- Student Life and Leadership ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Food insecurity 1070 Franklin's experience with discovering his cultural identity Franklin recalls his early childhood military family background and how that did not inform his identity, and speaks to how the Center assisted in helping him find that identity. Asian-American experience ; Community building ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Cultural expression ; Filipino-American experience ; Identity ; Inclusion 1156 The Cross-Cultural Center moves to a bigger and more visible location Franklin describes the Center moving to the breezeway of the Administrative Building (then Craven Hall), and what being in that space did for the Cross-Cultural Center. Franklin also recalls how the peer educators engaged students who hadn't been in the space previously. California State University San Marcos ; Campus activism ; Murals 1290 Food insecurity and demand for identity-specific spaces Franklin recalls when he was a student the issue of food insecurity on campus, and the need for a food pantry. Franklin also describes the growing demand for additional identity-focused spaces on campus. California State University San Marcos ; Food insecurity ; Pride Center ; Representation ; Women in Gender Equity Center 1437 Evolution of the Cross-Cultural Center Franklin offers his thoughts on how the Cross-Cultural Center has evolved and how he sees the Center evolving in the future, as well as how it coexists with other spaces.. Identity ; Marketing ; Representation 1582 Impact of the Cross-Cultural Center on Franklin's career Franklin explains the impact of the Cross-Cultural Center on his career, and how it informed his future educational and professional growth. Franklin also describes the benefits and challenges of working in higher education in California. California State University San Marcos ; Careers in higher education ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Higher education ; Student affairs 1712 Highlights from Franklin's time at the Cross-Cultural Center Franklin recalls facilitating the All People's Celebration, and working as a coordinator emergency hire where he evolved from a student to a young professional. Franklin also describes working on a mural near the Center. All People's Celebration ; Asher University ; California State University San Marcos-- Student Life and Leadership ; Cross-Cultural Center ; Murals 1945 Franklin returns to CSUSM in 2009 to work for Extended Learning Programs. Franklin recalls working for Extended Learning and working in Student Affairs, and discusses working in Student Affairs during the 2020 COVID-19 Pandemic. California State University San Marcos-- Extended Learning ; Covid-19 pandemic ; Higher education ; Professional experience ; Virtual learning mp4 Jay Franklin was a peer mentor at the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM during the early days of the program and university. He was instrumental in the creation of many of the programs and early marketing campaigns for the center, and worked as a peer educator to provide what we would now call intersectional support for LGBTQIA students. Eventually, he made his way back to CSUSM, where he now works in the Dean of Student Affairs office. Meyer: My name is Madeleine Meyer and I&#039 ; m here today in the Kellogg Library interviewing Jay Franklin here at the California State University San Marcos for the Cross-Cultural Center Oral History Project. The date is Wednesday, April 12th, 2023, and the time is 2:16. Hi, Jay. Uh, why don&#039 ; t you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your early life and family. Franklin: Woo. Awesome. Jay Franklin, uh, associate director of new student and family programs. Um, early life, uh, let&#039 ; s see. I grew up military. My dad was in the Navy for 24 years, so every two to three years we moved around a lot. Um, but I was fortunate enough to stay for a significant amount of time in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Um, and then had the opportunity to move out to California in 1999. California is my birth state, so when that opportunity came up, I moved away from Virginia Beach. My entire family network is in Virginia, Virginia Beach, and I just wanted to start anew out here in San Diego. Meyer: Nice. So, what was your educational journey like? Franklin: The typical &quot ; Go to high school and you should go to college&quot ; . So I, I tried that route, or that was my original plan. My senior year, my junior year of high school, I was fortunate enough to get into a program that allowed me to go to beauty school, uh, cosmetology school. So I was able to use those elective units or those blocks of time to go to cosmetology school. So, by the time I graduated high school, I already had my cosmetology license. So, I went, I did the apply for college, uh, went to a local community college, Tidewater Community College in Virginia Beach, Virginia. And, realized as a full-time hair stylist, I was doing a lot like that whole typical, like, how many hours -- should I work full-time, part-time, go to school full-time, part-time? And, I did full-time both, and, of course that doesn&#039 ; t work out. And I felt as though I, in one of my classes, I&#039 ; ll never forget, my sociology instructor--professor--was sharing like how much they made. And I&#039 ; m like, you make that? And I&#039 ; m like, and you got your doctor whatever! And it just really was jarring and shocking for me because here I am, a professional hair stylist, uh, working in a, in a salon and also doing hair on the side. I was pulling in basically what that faculty member was saying was their salary. So I was like, why am I here? And it just wasn&#039 ; t a good fit. Um, so I didn&#039 ; t go-- I. I dropped out eventually. Actually, I, uh, history shows that I have a whole bunch of &quot ; WU&quot ; s [Withdrawal Unauthorized]. So I did the first semester, did great. Got A&#039 ; s and B&#039 ; s and, and A minus or something? Uh, and, and then my second semester I was like, that was when I encountered my sociology instructor and was basically sharing their, their salary. And I was like, I need to get outta here. So I just thought, just not showing up, you&#039 ; re done with class, and the, the university would just disenroll you and yeah, of course I&#039 ; ll disenroll you with &quot ; WU&quot ; s, so, those are F&#039 ; s. And so my second semester at Tidewater Community College had a whole bunch of F&#039 ; s. Fast forward many years, at least a decade, and I started to see the number &quot ; 30,&quot ; my age was coming up as thirty. And I&#039 ; m like, oh my gosh, it&#039 ; s time to actually go back to school and get a career. And yeah, I have a great job doing hair, but that&#039 ; s a job. I really wanted to finish what I originally set out to do and go to college and get my bachelor&#039 ; s degree, and did it. So I went back to school and was a non-traditional student. Uh, I didn&#039 ; t want to go to SDSU, um, and was very adamant in not being, &quot ; hey, number 262 in the back row.&quot ; Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: I wanted to be a person, and found out that, uh, Cal State San Marcos was a brand-new school, smaller class sizes, and I, I didn&#039 ; t wanna leave San Diego. Worked so hard to get here and stay here. So, at that time, my partner and I were looking around for houses or condos to buy, and we just couldn&#039 ; t find anything in San Diego, &#039 ; cause it was 2004 and the prices were just going up and up and up. So, fortunately, fortunately the housing or condo prices in San Marcos were affordable at that time. So, and telling my counselor at City College, she&#039 ; s like, &quot ; Oh, yeah, that actually works out better for you when you apply because you&#039 ; ll be in the service area of Cal State San Marcos.&quot ; So it, it worked out. And I was able to come to Cal State San Marcos as an undergrad non-traditional student, in fall of 2005, been here ever since. I mean, I did leave for a little bit and, uh, I did my undergrad, my grad here, but there was a stint as soon as I finished my undergrad, I didn&#039 ; t wanna work in a salon and I wanted a job that leveraged my bachelor&#039 ; s degree and was lucky enough to get a job at Bridgepoint Education or Asher University, and was a matriculation coordinator-- basically a transcript evaluator. Um, did that for a couple months, I think almost a year. And then worked my way up to Articulation Specialist-- which is like assist.org, it&#039 ; s like your articulation specialist, uh, counselor transfer counselor 24/7-- and was able to do that for Asher University. And while at a Christmas party for an office at Cal State San Marcos-- my partner worked at Cal State San Marcos at that time, so I was attending his--- was a Christmas party and was sharing with the dean at that time what I did. And it just worked out that they were having an emergency position that they said, &quot ; Hey, you should apply!&quot ; And the rest is history, as I say, I apply and then have been here ever since. So I did have a, a gap in my Cal State San Marcos life of about a year and a half where I worked externally. But boomeranged back to come to Cal State San Marcos, Meyer: Everything comes back to-- Franklin: Totally, totally. Meyer: So, during your time at, at Cal State San Marcos, when you were an undergrad, how did you become aware of and become involved with the Cross-Cultural Center? Franklin: I love it. Okay. So, um, in 2005, I was a non-traditional student, so I knew that yes, the, the university has the mission statement, vision statement, campus core values, and I, I moved up from Hillcrest, so I was very out and comfortable with myself and eagerly looked for the student organization for the LGBTQ+ community, and discovered it and found it and joined their group and was like, &quot ; Look, we need to have some marketing. We need some banners, we need rebranding.&quot ; And I just, I just came, I, I wasn&#039 ; t a, a typical student. So I, I went to school and wanted to get the best out of my experience and basically became a marketing director for the student org, and then branded us and allowed us to get some visibility on campus because we wanted to increase our membership. And in that, I&#039 ; m gonna say either that fall or early that spring, uh, our banner for our student org was stolen. And I thought it was very odd that a university would lose or allow something like that to occur. And, I thought it was really jarring to be called &quot ; faggot&quot ; on campus. And it was just really jarring. It was, it was very strange. It really reminded me of growing up in Virginia Beach, Virginia with the 700 Club in the background, Christian Coalition [of America]-- campus, yes, is supposed to be inclusive, and I just didn&#039 ; t get that vibe. I also was very comfortable in my being gay and championing the LGBTQ+ community causes up here. And to have our banner stolen, I immediately, like, &quot ; Who do I go to?&quot ; And our student org was like, &quot ; Oh my gosh, what are we gonna do?&quot ; I&#039 ; m like, the university has protocols, there&#039 ; s rules and policies, so we&#039 ; ll just work our way up to food chain to find out who&#039 ; s responsible for our safety and like, what, what can be done about this banner being stolen? And that was how I encountered Student Life and Leadership, because our student organization is founded out of Student Life and Leadership, so they were responsible for the student organization. And then it also allowed me to, out of SLL-- Student Life and leadership-- it also allowed me to encounter the Multicultural Programs Office or the Cross-Cultural Center, as it was slowly evolving into -- So, that was my first encounter, was like, &quot ; Hey, what&#039 ; s going on?&quot ; Like, our student org didn&#039 ; t even know that the Cross-Cultural Center or the Multicultural Programs Office existed. So it was an opportunity for me to learn more about multicultural programs and the Cross-Cultural Center, but it also, uh, was allowed the student org to gain additional information and resources. So that&#039 ; s how we encountered it. That&#039 ; s how I personally discovered it. Meyer: So, what was the role of the Cross-Cultural Center at the time? I understand that it was like the university just starting out. Did it have more leeway or, or sway? Franklin: Um, I don&#039 ; t, I wouldn&#039 ; t say more leeway or sway. It was just a, to be honest, it was the reason why I was drawn into the space is there was, there were folks that looked like me, so it was predominantly Filipino or Asian, the folks that hung out in the center or the-- it was really a oversized closet, I want to say, like, as big as this room that we&#039 ; re in. So, it was a small closet, and a conference room, and it was filled with people that looked like me. We had the same conversations about our identity groups, and it was just a really welcoming environment. I was like, wow, it&#039 ; s refreshing to be in here versus the external campus. I mean, back then my hair was platinum or purple or pink or cheetah spots. It was whatever I felt like, I was a professional hairstylist so my hair changed often. It was like, see-through, iridescent, like-- so, in that, in that space, I was able to just be myself. And then other students started sharing their stories and some students started coming out, and-- it was-- I, I wouldn&#039 ; t say there was like any sway or anything. It was just a spot that made me feel better. And then because I was in the center, more students were accessing the resources and, yeah. Our student org basically started leveraging the center-- Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: For resources for the student org, because Student Life and Leadership has resources for student orgs, but so does--the Cross-- or the Multicultural Programs, Cross-Cultural Center has resources. So, once I knew that those things were available, our student org definitely started leveraging them and, and holding space and, and using resources. Like we made, we came up with marketing campaigns, events to help not just our student org professionally develop in leadership, but also sharing some of our lessons learned with other student orgs, like, Black Student Union, American Indian Student Association, MEChA [Movimentio Estudiantil Chicano de Azltlán], APIDA [Asian Pacific Islander Desi American], or-- I&#039 ; m trying to remember all the other ones-- but Asian Pacific Islander student org, Vietnamese student org [Vietnamese Student Association]. So, all these different student orgs, their membership were students. And I felt really out of place because I was an older, non-traditional student, and I was pushing-- I wouldn&#039 ; t say pushing the envelope-- but I was just encouraging more leadership development, and sharing resources with students, saying, &quot ; These are things that you&#039 ; ve paid for, you can leverage them and use them to the benefit of not just your student org, but for you professionally and get some-- grow your skillset.&quot ; Meyer: Mm-hmm. So, I understand you became a peer educator because you were so motivated to like, keep helping other students learn about the things they could utilize on campus. Um, could you talk a little bit about the peer educator program? Franklin: Yeah. So there were, I wanna say five of us. Uh, I&#039 ; m looking at, let me look at my pictures. Meyer: No, that&#039 ; s totally fine. Franklin: There, there was Cheryl, Stephanie, Diana, myself, and Brittany, and that was May of 2007. I was just looking, referencing a picture of us as a group. As a peer educator, I kind of feel like, because I was a non-traditional student, I really looked at this as a job, as a-- I didn&#039 ; t know that student affairs was actually a career until encountering Student Life and Leadership in the Multicultural Programs. I was like, &quot ; This is a job?&quot ; Like, this is amazing! So, I was living the life as if I was already employed by the university and really took ownership and pride of being a peer educator-- Um, but, of course I wanted to ensure that we all shared the, the workload. So, each of us had a specialization. Mine was LGBTQ specific, the four other peer educators focused on their areas. I just took a bit more ownership of like, making sure that-- I, I wouldn&#039 ; t say I was a lead, but I just wanted to make sure that our, our projects were polished? And, when looking around at other student orgs and other peer educators on campus, I wanted to share all the resources, and the presentation of this is what Multicultural Programs or Cross-Cultural Center, this is the content we put out. It&#039 ; s branded, it has a, a similar look and feel. It didn&#039 ; t look hodgepodge. Like, this was years ago before the advent of Canva. Everybody loves Canva right now because templates galore and it all looks professional. Back then we didn&#039 ; t have it. So, the peer educators basically came up with our own template that we said, okay, this is how we&#039 ; re, the conversation was like, how do we make it look professional and not student org, and not just disjointed from every event to the next event? There was some side sort of cohesion, a template that looked like when you looked at a, a flyer or a poster, you knew, oh, that&#039 ; s a Cross-Cultural Center event. Meyer: Hmm. What kind of support and programmings were, were offered for students that got involved with the CCC [Cross-Cultural Center] when the organization was still, you know, coming up when you were, when you were a peer educator. What kind of, like, outreach was taking place to the students? Franklin: Kinda outreach. Ooh, that&#039 ; s a good one. Uh, so the peer educators essentially were their own marketing machines. Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: So, each of our groups, we were leveraged, uh, to dip into our own communities-- Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: So, when it came to marketing efforts and how do we reach the greater campus body-- I mean, there was, I wanna say 7,400 students on campus at that time? 74[00] to 8,000 students. So, by being already a student leader in the LGBTQ group, our and each of the peer educators being members of their own, identity group, student orgs, it really helped the marketing efforts target those communities. And it was cross-pollination essentially. Like, everybody-- we synced our events to ensure that we weren&#039 ; t overlapping anybody else&#039 ; s events, so that we could pull our communities to each one of them so we could be strategic in our marketing efforts. Meyer: How did the Cross-Cultural Center help you further develop that sense of community and help others find it? I know you&#039 ; ve already touched on that a bit, but, um, yeah. Finding a community on campus-- Franklin: How did it help me find a community? Meyer: I mean, you, you already had, like you said, a community, but, how did-- how did you help bring other people into that in ways that they might not have been introduced to? Franklin: Perfect. Okay. Um, a good way of looking at it is ensuring that a lot of our events had food, because we knew that food draws students. So, one strategy was always going to the director of Student Life Leadership, was always asking for additional funds for &lt ; laughs&gt ; so we could buy pizza, hotdogs, to ensure our events had food, because we knew that food was the-- a driving motivator for students to attend anything. So, food was important. And then, money was another way of, of pulling in students that didn&#039 ; t leverage the Cross-Cultural Center or Student Life and Leadership was helping students-- like, we were doing workshops and helping students, obtain funding from-- the Cross-Cultural Center had funds, ASI [Associated Students Incorporated, student government] had funds, the Vice President of Student Affairs had funds, so there was like $500 pockets of money that you could apply for in fall or for spring, or for the entire academic year. So, we came up with workshops to help students apply for those programs, funding opportunities so that they could actually get money. So, we knew food was important and money was important. So, we held workshops, helped students actually like, oh, I&#039 ; ve never applied for money before for student org. We&#039 ; re like, &quot ; don&#039 ; t worry, we can help you walk through this process.&quot ; So, food and money was one way to bring in students that never knew that the Cross-Cultural Center existed, or even Student Life and Leadership existed. Meyer: What is the overall significance, in your opinion, of having a space like that, that champions, uh, underrepresented students on campus and gives them a place to be themselves and hold space? Franklin: Yeah, it was, it was a family experience. For me, I, I really, uh, didn&#039 ; t, as I grew up military, so every two to three years would move around. So, I really didn&#039 ; t have this whole Asian, Filipino, identity experience. But hanging out in the center really helped me come, come to peace or come to terms with my half-Filipino, half-Asian background. And it helped me find space. And then by being comfortable, I guess others, seeing myself being authentic allowed them to just be themselves. Like, it was a really family experience in a sense that when you walked into the center-- I was looking at some of the pictures from back of the day. Some students just like took off their shoes. Like when you talk about a family or cross-cultural experience, some at, when they go home, they take off their shoes before they enter their house. So, I thought it was the strangest and coolest thing. And, and looking back, I saw a picture where there was some students without their shoes on. I&#039 ; m like, &quot ; Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that.&quot ; So, I, it was a space for students to be themselves, and the more students that went into the Cross-Cultural Center to-- it always felt like there was a party. Like, there was a sort of celebration in the center, like we packed the space and, and, and not just packing the space, it was always fun. And when we moved from Craven Hall, now the Administrative Building, it&#039 ; s that small little conference room that&#039 ; s as big as this space. We moved into the breezeway of the administrative building, and the door into the Cross-Cultural Center was in the breezeway where all the murals are at, at Cal State San Marcos. So, whenever we were holding space and taking up space and having some dialogue, whenever the door was open, it echoed inside. I think it was like a strategic way of the director that time to put it in that space, because it was front and center. Everybody that walked through that hallway, the sound just increased because it was in a hallway-- a breezeway. And when people looked into the space and saw the fun you were having, it was-- the natural conversation was like, our question was like, &quot ; What&#039 ; s going on in there? And how could I join it?&quot ; So, it was always packed, it was always welcomed. The peer educators, as soon as somebody walked by, looked into the space, our, our goal was to engage with them immediately. So if you looked into the door of the Cross-Cultural Center, it was like, &quot ; Hi! Welcome into our space! We&#039 ; ve got this and we&#039 ; ve got that.&quot ; Just, it was always a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere, total family. Like if, if a student didn&#039 ; t know it was here, that meant they never visited Cougar Central or visited the Financial Aid Office. Like, in order to get to that, that office, that was one of the main thoroughfares at breezeway with the murals is where the party was happening. Meyer: Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like some of the activism efforts were just getting kids in the door so they could learn and, and, yeah-- enjoy, enjoy the space if they previously hadn&#039 ; t felt it on campus before. Can you recount in an instance when something you learned at the CCC, maybe it opened your eyes to something you hadn&#039 ; t thought about before, something just hadn&#039 ; t crossed your mind? Some-- um-- maybe some issue you hadn&#039 ; t realized that underrepresented students were having on campus, that you just hadn&#039 ; t-- Franklin: The, the food, the-- definitely the food insecurity. &lt ; removing glasses&gt ; I&#039 ; m, I&#039 ; m not gonna be looking at my phone or a laptop. Food insecurity was a big one for me. As a non-traditional student, I didn&#039 ; t have that worry. I didn&#039 ; t have that concern. That was early conversations of like, &quot ; Where&#039 ; s our food pantry? Other campuses have food pantries, but not Cal State San Marcos.&quot ; So, for me, I thought that was really odd that here we are, we have a space for students, but we don&#039 ; t have, like, a food pantry to allow students to get access to it. So that was, goes back to my earlier response of like, have food and students will show up. So, knowing that students need food, and holding events to that had food was a major draw. But yeah, it was a big shocker to find out that food insecurity was a big deal back then. I mean, it still is now. There is a food pantry and there&#039 ; s food pantries all around. But, back then it was like, yeah, we know it&#039 ; s a problem, but that&#039 ; s so new and our campus is still growing, that we can only focus on this one space. And yes, the Cross-Cultural Center was one space, and there were other many spaces on campus, but because it was this Cross-Cultural Center and filled with-- the line back then was like first one in gets to own the space, so the Asian identified groups would pack the room and they&#039 ; re like, &quot ; This is the Asian Center!&quot ; And I&#039 ; m like, &quot ; This is a Cross-Cultural Center.&quot ; Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: So, the conversation also started to get out where students were like, &quot ; Well, where&#039 ; s my center?&quot ; and &quot ; Where&#039 ; s my center?&quot ; and Pride Center of the-- like, LGBT community was like, &quot ; Where&#039 ; s our center?&quot ; And, it just started, &quot ; Where&#039 ; s the Women in Gender Equity Center?&quot ; So, because of the fun and the joy that was a party-like atmosphere, other, other students were like, &quot ; Uh, where&#039 ; s my space?&quot ; And, so, that was a bit jarring for a campus from my perspective to not have all spaces, but also no time and place-- like, the university was still pretty young. Like, campuses just don&#039 ; t pop up and have everything all at once. It has to be responsive to the community that evolves and grows there. And Cal State San Marcos has done that. Meyer: Right. Wait for the community to ask for what they need rather than just tell them what they need. Franklin: Yep. Meyer: What role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with these other centers? Franklin: I, it&#039 ; s-- Meyer: It&#039 ; s a, it&#039 ; s a hard question, yeah-- Franklin: Yeah. So, because they&#039 ; re all, all these different centers are very specific to an identity group. The Cross-Cultural Center is -- I don&#039 ; t know if they would take the lead or, um, I don&#039 ; t know. It&#039 ; s a, it&#039 ; s a central hub that-- and the first center that, it&#039 ; s been here. Just because it&#039 ; s been here the longest doesn&#039 ; t mean it has to stay that way. So, watching it evolve and grow, and how it collaborates with other centers has been really important. So, I don&#039 ; t know. I don&#039 ; t know if that answers your question. Meyer: Mm-hmm. No, it does. It does, yeah. Franklin: Once its role, its-- Meyer: There&#039 ; s no right answer to the question. Yeah. Yeah. It&#039 ; s exactly-- building off that, what direction do you think the CCC should grow in? What, what areas do you see room for improvement in students that could be better served, or maybe--- you know, yeah. Franklin: Yeah. It&#039 ; s one of those, like-- oh, it&#039 ; s almost like a innovation hub-- Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: And a business incubator. So, when you look at it from... I&#039 ; m going, I&#039 ; m gonna dip back into the marketing hat--- it starts off as an incubator group for students that want to form community, and, once that group has been given the energy and the resources that they need, and the-- the sense of, you can advocate for yourself and advocate--. and that advocation gets you, it doesn&#039 ; t get you a center, but it helps consolidate your voice so that you can move the students and empower the students to ask and request for space. So, yeah, I, I look at the Cross-Cultural Center as like a, a identity group incubation center. So, students leverage a space, become empowered, and then get what they need and go up to leadership or to student leadership-- ASI--- and say, &quot ; Hey, look, where&#039 ; s our space? Why don&#039 ; t we have it X, Y, and Z? Like, we&#039 ; ve been asking for it for this long.&quot ; Like, it&#039 ; s a, it&#039 ; s a great spot to start. Meyer: I understand you still work in--- of course, you work on Cal State San Marcos campus, and I just wanted to ask about what ways that your experience and your time with the CCC [Cross-Cultural Center] helped shape your outlook and your professional life? Franklin: Uh, without the Cross-Cultural Center, I wouldn&#039 ; t have known that student affairs was a job. Meyer: Yeah. Franklin: And, yeah, so Cross-Cultural Center really impacted my career trajectory. I, I didn&#039 ; t know that this, I didn&#039 ; t--- when I went to Cal State San Marcos, I did not know that you could work in higher education. And I didn&#039 ; t know that was even a major. And, there&#039 ; s an entire master&#039 ; s degree around student affairs, and I&#039 ; m like, this is cool. I myself didn&#039 ; t go that route because I was already a non-traditional student. I came with a skill set that I would&#039 ; ve already learned in the student affairs master&#039 ; s program. I stayed at Cal State San Marcos, and I got a master&#039 ; s of education and just made it my own and focused on LGBT-specific stuff. But, without the Cross-Cultural Center, I would not have known that there&#039 ; s a student affairs professional career. I wouldn&#039 ; t have known to actually work in higher education. And then this whole concept of like, you&#039 ; re a state employee. Like, I didn&#039 ; t-- like when I originally said, &quot ; Oh, gosh, I&#039 ; m about to be 30,&quot ; it&#039 ; s--- &quot ; I need to look for retirement!&quot ; I didn&#039 ; t know that working for the state of California, the retirement is, like, this unicorn that doesn&#039 ; t exist anymore. So, like, private businesses don&#039 ; t even offer half of which you get as a state employee. And, and that comes with a, a rub as well, because when you&#039 ; re a new professional in, student affairs or just in in higher education, you have to, you have to put in your, your dues and start at the bottom and work your way up, learn the skillsets, apply for another job if you see one that better fits you grow within your role. But all of those things I would&#039 ; ve never known about had it not been for the Cross-Cultural Center. So, for me, it really had a huge impact on my personal life and professional career as well. Meyer: I understand that you and a lot of the peer educators became really good friends, and I was just wondering if either with them or with other students at the CCC [Cross-Cultural Center], if there&#039 ; s any like, great memories of the retreats or any of the events that you wanted to share, or just talk about. Franklin: Ooh, great events. Facilitating All People&#039 ; s Celebration was always a, fun-- just because it was a culminating award ceremony to recognize other student leaders on campus for various social justice awards. That was really cool. A big one for me was, and I still see it today, is my first professional role in the Cross-Cultural Center. There was a gap in between my undergrad and my master&#039 ; s program. There was a, a, a gap in professional service. So basically, the director or the co-direct, uh, assistant director at the time of the Cross-Cultural Center had left, no longer worked for the university. And the director of, Student Life, the leadership said, &quot ; Hey, uh, because you&#039 ; re super engaged as a peer educator and you finally finished your undergrad, we could-- there&#039 ; s this emergency hire position that we could hire you for three months or six months, but it ends at six months.&quot ; There&#039 ; s, there&#039 ; s no, we&#039 ; re--- we just need you to hold the spot, keep the seat warm, and keep the processes and the function of the Cross-Cultural Center moving forward because you know all the peer educators and you&#039 ; ve been in this role-- and a lot of the peer educators graduated and a new set came in. But the ones that had didn&#039 ; t graduate that were there, it was a really good opportunity for a good three to six months to be engaged in the student work where I evolved from student to young professional. And a big event that I had to do was create this mural, and I don&#039 ; t know how many panels it was, but it was maybe a hundred different pieces. And it was this giant picture, and it was divided into little one-foot-by-one-foot squares, or 12-inch-by-12-inch squares. And it made this huge mural and one giant design, but everybody got a one-foot-by-one-foot portion of it, and they got to paint it and add their own flare to the image. Because, once pulled back together, it would show a, a great--- it was like a kaleidoscope of all kinds of different perspectives, even though we knew it was one giant mural but everybody had their own little one-foot-by-one-foot square to add their own flavor and to add their own, this is Jay&#039 ; s square, or this was Stephanie&#039 ; s square. It was really a fun experience, to do a mural that&#039 ; s still on campus. And I see it, while it might not be in the Cross-Cultural Center, I&#039 ; ve watched this mural move from office, or Dean&#039 ; s conference room to Dean&#039 ; s conference room, and it&#039 ; s being used as backdrops for, for pictures around campus. So I think it&#039 ; s just so neat to see, being a part of the start, that it doesn&#039 ; t end, like, the-- I&#039 ; ve left my mark, or the peer educators have left their mark, and that, that thing, that mural is still being leveraged today. It&#039 ; s just pretty awesome. Meyer: That&#039 ; s really cool. So you were, you were basically an interim director? For a little while? Franklin: I, I wouldn&#039 ; t say a director-- Meyer: Program lead or something? Franklin: Coordinator. Meyer: Coordinator. Okay. Franklin: And yeah, I like to say, &quot ; Well, the director, the associate director left on the--&quot ; of course, no. Titles mean nothing. Meyer: Yeah. Franklin: But it was-- I, I definitely enjoyed that first experience in Student Affairs. And once I got into Student Affairs and that six months ended, it coincided with me getting hired at Asher University. And-- that is not student affairs, it was just transcript analysis. And then, coming back to Cal State San Marcos in fall of [20]09, working for Extended Learning, the self-support unit of the university, they don&#039 ; t receive any state funds. And it was ten-- a decade of my experience was in self-support. And then, when the pandemic hit, my skillset got repurposed, and off to Student Affairs I went, and now I&#039 ; m back in Student Affairs. So it&#039 ; s like, really full circle again, like yeah. It&#039 ; s pretty wild. Meyer: Yeah. So, um, I know it&#039 ; s not related to the Cross-Cultural Center, but could you talk a little bit about directing Student Affairs during the pandemic? Franklin: Yeah. Uh, it was, I was basically supporting the director, the inaugural director of the Success Coaching Program and Office of Coaching Success. And, it was basically-- my skillset was leveraging a database to match 1500-plus students with-- I want to say-- eighteen success coaches? We&#039 ; re a unionized environment, so, we had full-time staff, half-time staff and quarter-time staff. We had 1500 incoming first-year students that we needed to engage with and connect that student to Cal State San Marcos, even though we were in a virtual environment. So, leveraging technology appropriately. We sent text messages, of course, we called and sent emails, but as we know for sure, students or students in general don&#039 ; t read emails and they didn&#039 ; t know pick up calls from people that they don&#039 ; t know. So, sending memes to students to get them engaged, and we knew what the life cycle was like, because there&#039 ; s only sixteen weeks in a semester and we knew of certain in intervals in the semester, students like need to fill out their financial aid, meet with an academic advisor, check in to see how you&#039 ; re doing, how are they engaging or finding a sense of community. So, it goes back to that community feeling. While it might not be a Cross-Cultural Center specific, engaging in with a student to help them find their, their sense of being, or their sense of place, or their sense of connection-- connecting to community was what we were able to do when the pandemic hit, helping the students find their place. Even though it was virtual. Meyer: It sounds like you&#039 ; ve always been doing that. Yeah. It sounds like you&#039 ; ve been doing that since the first day you set foot on campus, just helping other students find their place. That&#039 ; s really cool. Well, I just wanted to thank you so much for, for coming in and doing this interview and, yeah, that&#039 ; s all the questions I have for today. But, thank you! Franklin: That&#039 ; s awesome. Thank you for having me. https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=FranklinJay_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-12.xml FranklinJay_MeyerMadeleine_2023-04-12.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Franklin, Jay. Interview April 12, 2023. Description An account of the resource Jay Franklin was a peer mentor at the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM during the early days of the program and university. He was instrumental in the creation of many of the programs and early marketing campaigns for the center, and worked as a peer educator to provide what we would now call intersectional support for LGBTQ+ students. Eventually, he made his way back to CSUSM, where he now works in the Dean of Student Affairs office. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-026 Subject The topic of the resource California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center California State University San Marcos. Student Affairs Education, Higher Human rights LGBTQ+ activism Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-12 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jay Franklin Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Madeleine Meyer Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant San Marcos (Calif.) Virginia Beach (Va.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Jay Franklin Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving image Asian Pacific Islander Desi American experience Cross-Cultural Center oral history project CSUSM history LGBTQIA+ experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/e62624fb1bdfebb2252e2ea132ab1d6e.pdf a47afc957202c225a5327331d4f153df PDF Text Text JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 Meyer: My name is Madeleine Meyer and I'm here today in the Kellogg Library interviewing Jay Franklin here at the California State University San Marcos for the Cross-Cultural Center Oral History Project. The date is Wednesday, April 12th, 2023, and the time is 2:16. Hi, Jay. Uh, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your early life and family. Franklin: Woo. Awesome. Jay Franklin, uh, associate director of new student and family programs. Um, early life, uh, let's see. I grew up military. My dad was in the Navy for 24 years, so every two to three years we moved around a lot. Um, but I was fortunate enough to stay for a significant amount of time in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Um, and then had the opportunity to move out to California in 1999. California is my birth state, so when that opportunity came up, I moved away from Virginia Beach. My entire family network is in Virginia, Virginia Beach, and I just wanted to start anew out here in San Diego. Meyer: Nice. So, what was your educational journey like? Franklin: The typical ”Go to high school and you should go to college”. So I, I tried that route, or that was my original plan. My senior year, my junior year of high school, I was fortunate enough to get into a program that allowed me to go to beauty school, uh, cosmetology school. So I was able to use those elective units or those blocks of time to go to cosmetology school. So, by the time I graduated high school, I already had my cosmetology license. So, I went, I did the apply for college, uh, went to a local community college, Tidewater Community College in Virginia Beach, Virginia. And, realized as a full-time hair stylist, I was doing a lot like that whole typical, like, how many hours -- should I work full-time, parttime, go to school full-time, part-time? And, I did full-time both, and, of course that doesn't work out. And I felt as though I, in one of my classes, I'll never forget, my sociology instructor—professor--was sharing like how much they made. And I'm like, you make that? And I'm like, and you got your doctor whatever! And it just really was jarring and shocking for me because here I am, a professional hair stylist, uh, working in a, in a salon and also doing hair on the side. I was pulling in basically what that faculty member was saying was their salary. So I was like, why am I here? And it just wasn't a good fit. Um, so I didn't go-- I. I dropped out eventually. Actually, I, uh, history shows that I have a whole bunch of “WU”s [Withdrawal Unauthorized]. So I did the first semester, did great. Got A's and B's and, and A minus or something? Uh, and, and then my second semester I was like, that was when I encountered my sociology instructor and was basically sharing their, their salary. And I was like, I need to get outta here. So I just thought, just not showing up, you're done with class, and the, the university would just disenroll you and yeah, of course I'll disenroll you with “WU”s, so, those are F’s. And so my second semester at Tidewater Community College had a whole bunch of F's. Fast forward many years, at least a decade, and I started to see the number “30,” my age was coming up as thirty. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's time to actually go back to school and get a career. And yeah, I have a great job doing hair, but that's a job. I really wanted to finish what I originally set out to do and go to college and get my bachelor's degree, and did it. So I went back to school and was a nontraditional student. Uh, I didn't want to go to SDSU, um, and was very adamant in not being, “hey, number 262 in the back row.” Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 1 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: I wanted to be a person, and found out that, uh, Cal State San Marcos was a brand-new school, smaller class sizes, and I, I didn't wanna leave San Diego. Worked so hard to get here and stay here. So, at that time, my partner and I were looking around for houses or condos to buy, and we just couldn't find anything in San Diego, ‘cause it was 2004 and the prices were just going up and up and up. So, fortunately, fortunately the housing or condo prices in San Marcos were affordable at that time. So, and telling my counselor at City College, she's like, “Oh, yeah, that actually works out better for you when you apply because you'll be in the service area of Cal State San Marcos.” So it, it worked out. And I was able to come to Cal State San Marcos as an undergrad non-traditional student, in fall of 2005, been here ever since. I mean, I did leave for a little bit and, uh, I did my undergrad, my grad here, but there was a stint as soon as I finished my undergrad, I didn't wanna work in a salon and I wanted a job that leveraged my bachelor's degree and was lucky enough to get a job at Bridgepoint Education or Asher University, and was a matriculation coordinator-- basically a transcript evaluator. Um, did that for a couple months, I think almost a year. And then worked my way up to Articulation Specialist-- which is like assist.org, it's like your articulation specialist, uh, counselor transfer counselor 24/7-- and was able to do that for Asher University. And while at a Christmas party for an office at Cal State San Marcos-- my partner worked at Cal State San Marcos at that time, so I was attending his--- was a Christmas party and was sharing with the dean at that time what I did. And it just worked out that they were having an emergency position that they said, “Hey, you should apply!” And the rest is history, as I say, I apply and then have been here ever since. So I did have a, a gap in my Cal State San Marcos life of about a year and a half where I worked externally. But boomeranged back to come to Cal State San Marcos, Meyer: Everything comes back to-Franklin: Totally, totally. Meyer: So, during your time at, at Cal State San Marcos, when you were an undergrad, how did you become aware of and become involved with the Cross-Cultural Center? Franklin: I love it. Okay. So, um, in 2005, I was a non-traditional student, so I knew that yes, the, the university has the mission statement, vision statement, campus core values, and I, I moved up from Hillcrest, so I was very out and comfortable with myself and eagerly looked for the student organization for the LGBTQ+ community, and discovered it and found it and joined their group and was like, “Look, we need to have Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 2 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 some marketing. We need some banners, we need rebranding.” And I just, I just came, I, I wasn't a, a typical student. So I, I went to school and wanted to get the best out of my experience and basically became a marketing director for the student org, and then branded us and allowed us to get some visibility on campus because we wanted to increase our membership. And in that, I'm gonna say either that fall or early that spring, uh, our banner for our student org was stolen. And I thought it was very odd that a university would lose or allow something like that to occur. And, I thought it was really jarring to be called “faggot” on campus. And it was just really jarring. It was, it was very strange. It really reminded me of growing up in Virginia Beach, Virginia with the 700 Club in the background, Christian Coalition [of America]… campus, yes, is supposed to be inclusive, and I just didn't get that vibe. I also was very comfortable in my being gay and championing the LGBTQ+ community causes up here. And to have our banner stolen, I immediately, like, “Who do I go to?” And our student org was like, “Oh my gosh, what are we gonna do?” I'm like, the university has protocols, there's rules and policies, so we'll just work our way up to food chain to find out who's responsible for our safety and like, what, what can be done about this banner being stolen? And that was how I encountered Student Life and Leadership, because our student organization is founded out of Student Life and Leadership, so they were responsible for the student organization. And then it also allowed me to, out of SLL-- Student Life and leadership-- it also allowed me to encounter the Multicultural Programs Office or the Cross-Cultural Center, as it was slowly evolving into … So, that was my first encounter, was like, “Hey, what's going on?” Like, our student org didn't even know that the Cross-Cultural Center or the Multicultural Programs Office existed. So it was an opportunity for me to learn more about multicultural programs and the Cross-Cultural Center, but it also, uh, was allowed the student org to gain additional information and resources. So that's how we encountered it. That's how I personally discovered it. Meyer: So, what was the role of the Cross-Cultural Center at the time? I understand that it was like the university just starting out. Did it have more leeway or, or sway? Franklin: Um, I don't, I wouldn't say more leeway or sway. It was just a, to be honest, it was the reason why I was drawn into the space is there was, there were folks that looked like me, so it was predominantly Filipino or Asian, the folks that hung out in the center or the-- it was really a oversized closet, I want to say, like, as big as this room that we're in. So, it was a small closet, and a conference room, and it was filled with people that looked like me. We had the same conversations about our identity groups, and it was just a really welcoming environment. I was like, wow, it's refreshing to be in here versus the external campus. I mean, back then my hair was platinum or purple or pink or cheetah spots. It was whatever I felt like, I was a professional hairstylist so my hair changed often. It was like, see-through, iridescent, like— so, in that, in that space, I was able to just be myself. And then other students started sharing their stories and some students started coming out, and… it was… I, I wouldn't say there was like any sway or anything. It was just a spot that made me feel better. And then because I was in the center, more students were accessing the resources and, yeah. Our student org basically started leveraging the center-Meyer: Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 3 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 Mm-hmm. Franklin: For resources for the student org, because Student Life and Leadership has resources for student orgs, but so does—the Cross-- or the Multicultural Programs, Cross-Cultural Center has resources. So, once I knew that those things were available, our student org definitely started leveraging them and, and holding space and, and using resources. Like we made, we came up with marketing campaigns, events to help not just our student org professionally develop in leadership, but also sharing some of our lessons learned with other student orgs, like, Black Student Union, American Indian Student Association, MEChA [Movimentio Estudiantil Chicano de Azltlán], APIDA [Asian Pacific Islander Desi American], or-- I'm trying to remember all the other ones-- but Asian Pacific Islander student org, Vietnamese student org [Vietnamese Student Association]. So, all these different student orgs, their membership were students. And I felt really out of place because I was an older, non-traditional student, and I was pushing-- I wouldn't say pushing the envelope-- but I was just encouraging more leadership development, and sharing resources with students, saying, “These are things that you've paid for, you can leverage them and use them to the benefit of not just your student org, but for you professionally and get some-- grow your skillset.” Meyer: Mm-hmm. So, I understand you became a peer educator because you were so motivated to like, keep helping other students learn about the things they could utilize on campus. Um, could you talk a little bit about the peer educator program? Franklin: Yeah. So there were, I wanna say five of us. Uh, I'm looking at, let me look at my pictures. Meyer: No, that's totally fine. Franklin: There, there was Cheryl, Stephanie, Diana, myself, and Brittany, and that was May of 2007. I was just looking, referencing a picture of us as a group. As a peer educator, I kind of feel like, because I was a non-traditional student, I really looked at this as a job, as a-- I didn't know that student affairs was actually a career until encountering Student Life and Leadership in the Multicultural Programs. I was like, “This is a job?” Like, this is amazing! So, I was living the life as if I was already employed by the university and really took ownership and pride of being a peer educator… Um, but, of course I wanted to ensure that we all shared the, the workload. So, each of us had a specialization. Mine was LGBTQ specific, the four other peer educators focused on their areas. I just took a bit more ownership of like, making sure that… I, I wouldn't say I was a lead, but I just wanted to make sure that our, our projects were polished? And, when looking around at other student orgs and other peer educators on campus, I wanted to share all the resources, and the presentation of this is what Multicultural Programs or Cross-Cultural Center, this is the content we put Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 4 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 out. It's branded, it has a, a similar look and feel. It didn't look hodgepodge. Like, this was years ago before the advent of Canva. Everybody loves Canva right now because templates galore and it all looks professional. Back then we didn't have it. So, the peer educators basically came up with our own template that we said, okay, this is how we're, the conversation was like, how do we make it look professional and not student org, and not just disjointed from every event to the next event? There was some side sort of cohesion, a template that looked like when you looked at a, a flyer or a poster, you knew, oh, that's a Cross-Cultural Center event. Meyer: Hmm. What kind of support and programmings were, were offered for students that got involved with the CCC [Cross-Cultural Center] when the organization was still, you know, coming up when you were, when you were a peer educator. What kind of, like, outreach was taking place to the students? Franklin: Kinda outreach. Ooh, that's a good one. Uh, so the peer educators essentially were their own marketing machines. Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: So, each of our groups, we were leveraged, uh, to dip into our own communities— Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: So, when it came to marketing efforts and how do we reach the greater campus body-- I mean, there was, I wanna say 7,400 students on campus at that time? 74[00] to 8,000 students. So, by being already a student leader in the LGBTQ group, our and each of the peer educators being members of their own, identity group, student orgs, it really helped the marketing efforts target those communities. And it was cross-pollination essentially. Like, everybody-- we synced our events to ensure that we weren't overlapping anybody else's events, so that we could pull our communities to each one of them so we could be strategic in our marketing efforts. Meyer: How did the Cross-Cultural Center help you further develop that sense of community and help others find it? I know you've already touched on that a bit, but, um, yeah. Finding a community on campus-Franklin: How did it help me find a community? Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 5 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 Meyer: I mean, you, you already had, like you said, a community, but, how did-- how did you help bring other people into that in ways that they might not have been introduced to? Franklin: Perfect. Okay. Um, a good way of looking at it is ensuring that a lot of our events had food, because we knew that food draws students. So, one strategy was always going to the director of Student Life Leadership, was always asking for additional funds for <laughs> so we could buy pizza, hotdogs, to ensure our events had food, because we knew that food was the-- a driving motivator for students to attend anything. So, food was important. And then, money was another way of, of pulling in students that didn't leverage the Cross-Cultural Center or Student Life and Leadership was helping students-- like, we were doing workshops and helping students, obtain funding from-- the Cross-Cultural Center had funds, ASI [Associated Students Incorporated, student government] had funds, the Vice President of Student Affairs had funds, so there was like $500 pockets of money that you could apply for in fall or for spring, or for the entire academic year. So, we came up with workshops to help students apply for those programs, funding opportunities so that they could actually get money. So, we knew food was important and money was important. So, we held workshops, helped students actually like, oh, I've never applied for money before for student org. We're like, “don't worry, we can help you walk through this process.” So, food and money was one way to bring in students that never knew that the Cross-Cultural Center existed, or even Student Life and Leadership existed. Meyer: What is the overall significance, in your opinion, of having a space like that, that champions, uh, underrepresented students on campus and gives them a place to be themselves and hold space? Franklin: Yeah, it was, it was a family experience. For me, I, I really, uh, didn't, as I grew up military, so every two to three years would move around. So, I really didn't have this whole Asian, Filipino, identity experience. But hanging out in the center really helped me come, come to peace or come to terms with my halfFilipino, half-Asian background. And it helped me find space. And then by being comfortable, I guess others, seeing myself being authentic allowed them to just be themselves. Like, it was a really family experience in a sense that when you walked into the center-- I was looking at some of the pictures from back of the day. Some students just like took off their shoes. Like when you talk about a family or crosscultural experience, some at, when they go home, they take off their shoes before they enter their house. So, I thought it was the strangest and coolest thing. And, and looking back, I saw a picture where there was some students without their shoes on. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that.” So, I, it was a space for students to be themselves, and the more students that went into the Cross-Cultural Center to… it always felt like there was a party. Like, there was a sort of celebration in the center, like we packed the space and, and, and not just packing the space, it was always fun. And when we moved from Craven Hall, now the Administrative Building, it‘s that small little conference room that's as big as this space. We moved into the breezeway of the administrative building, and the door into the CrossCultural Center was in the breezeway where all the murals are at, at Cal State San Marcos. Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 6 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 So, whenever we were holding space and taking up space and having some dialogue, whenever the door was open, it echoed inside. I think it was like a strategic way of the director that time to put it in that space, because it was front and center. Everybody that walked through that hallway, the sound just increased because it was in a hallway-- a breezeway. And when people looked into the space and saw the fun you were having, it was-- the natural conversation was like, our question was like, “What's going on in there? And how could I join it?” So, it was always packed, it was always welcomed. The peer educators, as soon as somebody walked by, looked into the space, our, our goal was to engage with them immediately. So if you looked into the door of the Cross-Cultural Center, it was like, “Hi! Welcome into our space! We’ve got this and we've got that.” Just, it was always a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere, total family. Like if, if a student didn't know it was here, that meant they never visited Cougar Central or visited the Financial Aid Office. Like, in order to get to that, that office, that was one of the main thoroughfares at breezeway with the murals is where the party was happening. Meyer: Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like some of the activism efforts were just getting kids in the door so they could learn and, and, yeah-- enjoy, enjoy the space if they previously hadn't felt it on campus before. Can you recount in an instance when something you learned at the CCC, maybe it opened your eyes to something you hadn't thought about before, something just hadn't crossed your mind? Some-- um-maybe some issue you hadn't realized that underrepresented students were having on campus, that you just hadn't-Franklin: The, the food, the… definitely the food insecurity. <removing glasses> I'm, I'm not gonna be looking at my phone or a laptop. Food insecurity was a big one for me. As a non-traditional student, I didn't have that worry. I didn't have that concern. That was early conversations of like, “Where's our food pantry? Other campuses have food pantries, but not Cal State San Marcos.” So, for me, I thought that was really odd that here we are, we have a space for students, but we don't have, like, a food pantry to allow students to get access to it. So that was, goes back to my earlier response of like, have food and students will show up. So, knowing that students need food, and holding events to that had food was a major draw. But yeah, it was a big shocker to find out that food insecurity was a big deal back then. I mean, it still is now. There is a food pantry and there's food pantries all around. But, back then it was like, yeah, we know it's a problem, but that's so new and our campus is still growing, that we can only focus on this one space. And yes, the Cross-Cultural Center was one space, and there were other many spaces on campus, but because it was this Cross-Cultural Center and filled with-- the line back then was like first one in gets to own the space, so the Asian identified groups would pack the room and they're like, “This is the Asian Center!” And I'm like, “This is a Cross-Cultural Center.” Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 7 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 So, the conversation also started to get out where students were like, “Well, where's my center?” and “Where's my center?” and Pride Center of the-- like, LGBT community was like, “Where's our center?” And, it just started, “Where's the Women in Gender Equity Center?” So, because of the fun and the joy that was a party-like atmosphere, other, other students were like, “Uh, where's my space?” And, so, that was a bit jarring for a campus from my perspective to not have all spaces, but also no time and place-- like, the university was still pretty young. Like, campuses just don't pop up and have everything all at once. It has to be responsive to the community that evolves and grows there. And Cal State San Marcos has done that. Meyer: Right. Wait for the community to ask for what they need rather than just tell them what they need. Franklin: Yep. Meyer: What role do you see the Cross-Cultural Center playing as it coexists with these other centers? Franklin: I, it's-Meyer: It's a, it's a hard question, yeah-Franklin: Yeah. So, because they're all, all these different centers are very specific to an identity group. The CrossCultural Center is … I don't know if they would take the lead or, um, I don't know. It's a, it's a central hub that… and the first center that, it's been here. Just because it's been here the longest doesn't mean it has to stay that way. So, watching it evolve and grow, and how it collaborates with other centers has been really important. So, I don't know. I don't know if that answers your question. Meyer: Mm-hmm. No, it does. It does, yeah. Franklin: Once its role, its— Meyer: There's no right answer to the question. Yeah. Yeah. It's exactly… building off that, what direction do you think the CCC should grow in? What, what areas do you see room for improvement in students that could be better served, or maybe--- you know, yeah. Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 8 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 Franklin: Yeah. It's one of those, like… oh, it's almost like a innovation hub— Meyer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: And a business incubator. So, when you look at it from... I'm going, I'm gonna dip back into the marketing hat--- it starts off as an incubator group for students that want to form community, and, once that group has been given the energy and the resources that they need, and the-- the sense of, you can advocate for yourself and advocate…. and that advocation gets you, it doesn't get you a center, but it helps consolidate your voice so that you can move the students and empower the students to ask and request for space. So, yeah, I, I look at the Cross-Cultural Center as like a, a identity group incubation center. So, students leverage a space, become empowered, and then get what they need and go up to leadership or to student leadership— ASI--- and say, “Hey, look, where's our space? Why don't we have it X, Y, and Z? Like, we've been asking for it for this long.” Like, it's a, it's a great spot to start. Meyer: I understand you still work in--- of course, you work on Cal State San Marcos campus, and I just wanted to ask about what ways that your experience and your time with the CCC [Cross-Cultural Center] helped shape your outlook and your professional life? Franklin: Uh, without the Cross-Cultural Center, I wouldn't have known that student affairs was a job. Meyer: Yeah. Franklin: And, yeah, so Cross-Cultural Center really impacted my career trajectory. I, I didn't know that this, I didn't--- when I went to Cal State San Marcos, I did not know that you could work in higher education. And I didn't know that was even a major. And, there's an entire master's degree around student affairs, and I'm like, this is cool. I myself didn't go that route because I was already a non-traditional student. I came with a skill set that I would've already learned in the student affairs master's program. I stayed at Cal State San Marcos, and I got a master's of education and just made it my own and focused on LGBTspecific stuff. But, without the Cross-Cultural Center, I would not have known that there's a student affairs professional career. I wouldn't have known to actually work in higher education. And then this whole concept of like, you're a state employee. Like, I didn't-- like when I originally said, “Oh, gosh, I'm about to be 30,” it's--- “I need to look for retirement!” I didn't know that working for the state of California, the retirement is, like, this unicorn that doesn't exist anymore. So, like, private businesses Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 9 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 don't even offer half of which you get as a state employee. And, and that comes with a, a rub as well, because when you're a new professional in, student affairs or just in in higher education, you have to, you have to put in your, your dues and start at the bottom and work your way up, learn the skillsets, apply for another job if you see one that better fits you grow within your role. But all of those things I would've never known about had it not been for the Cross-Cultural Center. So, for me, it really had a huge impact on my personal life and professional career as well. Meyer: I understand that you and a lot of the peer educators became really good friends, and I was just wondering if either with them or with other students at the CCC [Cross-Cultural Center], if there's any like, great memories of the retreats or any of the events that you wanted to share, or just talk about. Franklin: Ooh, great events. Facilitating All People's Celebration was always a, fun-- just because it was a culminating award ceremony to recognize other student leaders on campus for various social justice awards. That was really cool. A big one for me was, and I still see it today, is my first professional role in the Cross-Cultural Center. There was a gap in between my undergrad and my master's program. There was a, a, a gap in professional service. So basically, the director or the co-direct, uh, assistant director at the time of the Cross-Cultural Center had left, no longer worked for the university. And the director of, Student Life, the leadership said, “Hey, uh, because you're super engaged as a peer educator and you finally finished your undergrad, we could-- there's this emergency hire position that we could hire you for three months or six months, but it ends at six months.” There's, there's no, we're--- we just need you to hold the spot, keep the seat warm, and keep the processes and the function of the Cross-Cultural Center moving forward because you know all the peer educators and you've been in this role-- and a lot of the peer educators graduated and a new set came in. But the ones that had didn't graduate that were there, it was a really good opportunity for a good three to six months to be engaged in the student work where I evolved from student to young professional. And a big event that I had to do was create this mural, and I don't know how many panels it was, but it was maybe a hundred different pieces. And it was this giant picture, and it was divided into little one-foot-by-one-foot squares, or 12-inch-by-12-inch squares. And it made this huge mural and one giant design, but everybody got a one-foot-by-one-foot portion of it, and they got to paint it and add their own flare to the image. Because, once pulled back together, it would show a, a great--- it was like a kaleidoscope of all kinds of different perspectives, even though we knew it was one giant mural but everybody had their own little one-foot-by-one-foot square to add their own flavor and to add their own, this is Jay's square, or this was Stephanie’s square. It was really a fun experience, to do a mural that's still on campus. And I see it, while it might not be in the Cross-Cultural Center, I've watched this mural move from office, or Dean's conference room to Dean's conference room, and it's being used as backdrops for, for pictures around campus. So I think it's just so neat to see, being a part of the start, that it doesn't end, like, the… I've left my mark, or the peer educators have left their mark, and that, that thing, that mural is still being leveraged today. It's just pretty awesome. Meyer: That's really cool. So you were, you were basically an interim director? For a little while? Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 10 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 Franklin: I, I wouldn't say a director-Meyer: Program lead or something? Franklin: Coordinator. Meyer: Coordinator. Okay. Franklin: And yeah, I like to say, “Well, the director, the associate director left on the…” of course, no. Titles mean nothing. Meyer: Yeah. Franklin: But it was-- I, I definitely enjoyed that first experience in Student Affairs. And once I got into Student Affairs and that six months ended, it coincided with me getting hired at Asher University. And… that is not student affairs, it was just transcript analysis. And then, coming back to Cal State San Marcos in fall of [20]09, working for Extended Learning, the self-support unit of the university, they don't receive any state funds. And it was ten-- a decade of my experience was in self-support. And then, when the pandemic hit, my skillset got repurposed, and off to Student Affairs I went, and now I'm back in Student Affairs. So it's like, really full circle again, like yeah. It's pretty wild. Meyer: Yeah. So, um, I know it's not related to the Cross-Cultural Center, but could you talk a little bit about directing Student Affairs during the pandemic? Franklin: Yeah. Uh, it was, I was basically supporting the director, the inaugural director of the Success Coaching Program and Office of Coaching Success. And, it was basically-- my skillset was leveraging a database to match 1500-plus students with-- I want to say-- eighteen success coaches? We’re a unionized environment, so, we had full-time staff, half-time staff and quarter-time staff. We had 1500 incoming first-year students that we needed to engage with and connect that student to Cal State San Marcos, even though we were in a virtual environment. So, leveraging technology appropriately. We sent text messages, of course, we called and sent emails, but as we know for sure, students or students in general don't read emails and they didn't know pick up calls from people that they don't know. So, sending Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 11 2023-05-01 �JAY FRANKLIN Transcript, Interview 2023-04-12 memes to students to get them engaged, and we knew what the life cycle was like, because there's only sixteen weeks in a semester and we knew of certain in intervals in the semester, students like need to fill out their financial aid, meet with an academic advisor, check in to see how you're doing, how are they engaging or finding a sense of community. So, it goes back to that community feeling. While it might not be a Cross-Cultural Center specific, engaging in with a student to help them find their, their sense of being, or their sense of place, or their sense of connection-- connecting to community was what we were able to do when the pandemic hit, helping the students find their place. Even though it was virtual. Meyer: It sounds like you've always been doing that. Yeah. It sounds like you've been doing that since the first day you set foot on campus, just helping other students find their place. That's really cool. Well, I just wanted to thank you so much for, for coming in and doing this interview and, yeah, that's all the questions I have for today. But, thank you! Franklin: That's awesome. Thank you for having me. Transcribed by Madeleine Meyer 12 2023-05-01 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Franklin, Jay. Interview transcript. April 12, 2023. Description An account of the resource Jay Franklin was a peer mentor at the Cross-Cultural Center at CSUSM during the early days of the program and university. He was instrumental in the creation of many of the programs and early marketing campaigns for the center, and worked as a peer educator to provide what we would now call intersectional support for LGBTQ+ students. Eventually, he made his way back to CSUSM, where he now works in the Dean of Student Affairs office. This oral history interview was generously funded through the Instructionally Related Activities Fund at California State University San Marcos. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jay Franklin Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Madeleine Meyer Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-12 Subject The topic of the resource California State University San Marcos. Cross-Cultural Center California State University San Marcos. Student Affairs Education, Higher Human rights LGBTQ+ activism Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant San Marcos (Calif.) Virginia Beach (Va.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Jay Franklin License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. 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Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Video and audio oral histories can be viewed here. Histories are listed alphabetically by last name. Individual histories are indexed and transcribed and can be searched. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <p>Rights to oral histories vary depending on the history. The library owns the copyright to some histories, and has license to reproduce for nonprofit purposes for others. Please contact CSUSM University Library Special Collections at <a href="mailto:%20archives@csusm.edu">archives@csusm.edu</a> with any questions about use.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jason Beyer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Thomas Galyean OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=GalyeanThomas_BeyerJason_2024-11-12_access.xml Interview Keyword This filed adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the "keywords" field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. United States. Army—Veterans;Vietnamese Conflict, 1961-1975;chicken farm;U.S. Forest Service;El Cariso Hot Shots;Reserve Officers' Training Corps;San Marcos High School (Calif.);University of California, Los Angeles (Calif.);helitack;Loop Fire (Calif.);flight school;Fort Wolters (Texas);Fort Knox (Kentucky);The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam;We Were Soldiers;hunter-killer team;Bell AH-1 Cobra;Pleiku (Vietnam);Phan Rang (Vietnam);Bearcat (Vietnam);napalm;Fort Rucker (Alabama);Fort Hood (Texas);1968 Democratic National Convention;Gray Air Force Base (Texas);Ground-Controlled Approach;Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association;7-17th CAV;University of Virginia;Qui Nhon (Vietnam);My Lai (Vietnam);free-fire zone;return fire;law school;attorney;Fort Polk (Louisiana) OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 6.0 Galyean, Thomas. Interview November 12th, 2024. SC027-071 00:00:00 SC027 California State University San Marcos University Library oral history collection CSUSM csusm United States. Army—Veterans ; Vietnamese Conflict, 1961-1975 ; chicken farm ; U.S. Forest Service ; El Cariso Hot Shots ; Reserve Officers' Training Corps ; San Marcos High School (Calif.) ; University of California, Los Angeles (Calif.) ; helitack ; Loop Fire (Calif.) ; flight school ; Fort Wolters (Texas) ; Fort Knox (Kentucky) ; The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam ; We Were Soldiers ; hunter-killer team ; Bell AH-1 Cobra ; Pleiku (Vietnam) ; Phan Rang (Vietnam) ; Bearcat (Vietnam) ; napalm ; Fort Rucker (Alabama) ; Fort Hood (Texas) ; 1968 Democratic National Convention ; Gray Air Force Base (Texas) ; Ground-Controlled Approach ; Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association ; 7-17th CAV ; University of Virginia ; Qui Nhon (Vietnam) ; My Lai (Vietnam) ; free-fire zone ; return fire ; law school ; attorney ; Fort Polk (Louisiana) Thomas Galyean Jason Beyer Moving image GalyeanThomas_BeyerJason_2024-11-12_access.mp4 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/719f129d05a256f9cb4708d531ea8735.mp4 Other video English 0 Interview Introduction 0 56 Personal Background Thomas Earl Galyean was a Captain in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War. He grew up working on his family’s chicken farm in San Marcos. His grandfather and uncle served in the military, and his father worked for Consolidated Aircraft building the B-25. Prior to entering the military, Galyean fought forest fires for the U.S. Forest Service with the El Cariso Hot Shots. U.S. Army ; Vietnam War ; San Diego (Calif.) ; Spanish-American War ; World War I ; World War II ; B-25 ; Consolidated Aircraft ; chicken farm ; U.S. Forest Service ; El Cariso Hot Shots 0 154 Military Enlistment There was compulsory military service for all men physically qualified for combat from Galyean’s high school graduating class of 1964. Galyean enlisted in the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps when he enrolled at UCLA, which gave him the military deferment necessary to complete college before entering active duty as a Lieutenant. Galyean says he enlisted in the Army because it had a year-less time commitment than other branches. While on summer break before returning to UCLA, twelve members of the El Cariso Hot Shots died in the Loop Fire. Galyean says that the helitack units who helped save some firefighters inspired his interest in helicopter flight. Reserve Officers' Training Corps ; Army ; Army ROTC ; ROTC ; San Marcos High School ; UCLA ; helitack ; Loop Fire ; U.S. Navy ; U.S. Marines ; U.S. Airforce 0 329 Early Days of Military Service and Training Galyean completed flight school for fixed wing aircraft while in his senior year of college. Once on active duty, Galyean went to the officer basic course at Fort Knox, Kentucky as an Armor. He then began rotary wing flight school at Fort Wolters in Texas. Armor Officer ; basic training ; Second Lieutenant ; training ; Armor ; flight school ; fixed wing ; rotary wing ; platoon ; Fort Wolters ; Texas ; Fort Knox ; Kentucky ; helicopter ; TH-55 ; Howard Hughes ; Hughes Tool Company 0 455 Deployment to Vietnam Galyean references a documentary called The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam. He says he personally experienced most of what was described in the documentary, but his experience with the rules of engagement regarding return fire was different from the documentary. Galyean then describes his general experience of military service in Vietnam as part of an Air Cavalry troop. Galyean describes the organization of his platoon, their typical responsibilities, the Ho Chi Minh Trail, Montagnards, free-fire zones, hunter-killer teams, napalm strikes, capturing enemy POWs, and evacuations. Galyean mentions the film, We Were Soldiers, and says it depicted much of what he experienced. Amazon Prime ; The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam ; Air Cavalry ; light observation helicopter ; OH-6 ; Central Highlands (Vietnam) ; Ho Chi Minh Trail (Vietnam) ; Vietnam ; South Vietnam ; Laos ; Cambodia ; free-fire zone ; Montagnard (Vietnam) ; 4th Infantry ; battalion ; Cobra (AH-1) ; scout (helicopter) ; hunter-killer team ; command and control ; Huey (Bell UH-1 Iroquois) ; F-100 ; Pleiku ; Phan Rang ; Bearcat ; napalm ; We Were Soldiers ; P.O.W. camp 0 1071 Promotions and New Responsibilities Galyean finished his aircraft training at Fort Ruckers, Alabama before beginning a stateside tour at Fort Hood, Texas, where he was assigned a unique responsibility for his first six months. After the 1968 Democratic National Convention, the U.S. President ordered there be developed a response team so the military could suppress riots. Galyean, then a Flight Operations Officer, worked with the Air Force from nearby Gray Air Force Base to organize an immediate response team and coordinate drills. For his second six months at Fort Hood, Galyean was commanding officer of the aviation support detachment for headquarters as part of the 501st Supply and Transport Battalion. Their main responsibility was quickly building temporary runways and landing strips for the Air Force, so that the armored division practically had its own portable airport. They used a Ground-Controlled Approach, which was a radar unit with a small control tower on a trailer used to call down aircraft. Vietnam ; Fort Rucker ; Fort Wolters ; flight school ; Huey ; First Lieutenant ; Fort Hood ; First Armored Division ; 1968 Democratic National Convention ; riot ; Chicago (Ill.) ; National Guard ; United States ; U.S. Air Force ; C-130 ; Gray Air Force Base ; Mechanized Infantry Battalion ; aircraft ; flight operations officer ; Brownsville (Tex.) ; aviation support detachment ; headquarters ; 501st Supply and Transport Battalion ; Deuce-and-a-Half ; pierced steel planking ; Desert Storm ; armored division ; Ground-Controlled Approach ; G.C.A. ; aero rifle platoon ; radar unit ; captain ; commanding officer 0 1565 Air Cavalry Assignment By the time he completed his stateside tour and deployed to Vietnam, Galyean was a Captain assigned to an Air Cavalry troop. He was made commanding officer of the aero rifle platoon, securing landing zones for aircraft throughout the week and conducting maintenance on Sundays. For his last six months in Vietnam, Captain Galyean was an Assistant S3 for the operations section of headquarters. He operated the control center assigning the Air Cavalry squadron and worked in conjunction with attack helicopter companies. At headquarters, he kept track of which units were flyable and ensured that aircraft got their assignments for supplying units. Vietnam ; Table of Organization ; Air Cavalry ; Air Cavalry Squadron ; Air Cavalry troop ; maintenance troop ; Huey Cobra ; Huey ; Cobra ; OH-6 ; gunship ; pilot ; platoon ; rifle platoon ; scout platoon ; light observation helicopter ; Assistant S3 0 1905 Adapting to the Military Lifestyle, and Media Representations of Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Galyean says that his general experience in Vietnam was difficult to adapt to, but he was forced to adapt quickly. He says the wives of American GIs especially struggled. The best writing he read on what it was like as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam are John Steinbeck’s writings as a war correspondent in Vietnam. Galyean again positively references the documentary, The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam. He discusses rules of engagement for return fire. He says scouts often had to shoot first or they would be killed before they found enemy combatants. Vietnam ; We Were Soldiers ; Mel Gibson ; wife ; Facebook ; Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association ; John Steinbeck ; Lady Bird ; Claudia Alta Johnson ; Lyndon B. Johnson ; L.B.J. ; University of Virginia ; Pleiku ; Air Cavalry ; Google ; Amazon Prime ; documentary ; helicopter pilot ; return fire 0 2292 Mechanical Issues with Huey Helicopters and Civilian Casualties in Vietnam Galyean describes some of the mechanical issues that Huey helicopters had. He tells a story from his time as an Assistant S3. He says a Cobras for one of his troops working along a beach had a rocket misfire and injured a little boy’s leg. Galyean says the My Lai massacre’s exposure to the public resulted in a standing order requiring investigations of civilian casualties to ensure whether they were intentional or accidental. Galyean was called upon to investigate the situation, and he says that, at the hospital where the boy was, the mother did not want to see the pilot chastised. Assistant S3 ; 7th Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment ; helicopter ; Cobra ; Huey ; Huey B ; gunship ; rocket pod ; jet ; F-4 ; F-100 ; rotor system ; single rotor ; Qui Nhon ; boy ; My Lai ; Lieutenant William Calley ; civilian ; village ; Kit Carson Scouts ; NVA ; North Vietnamese Army ; platoon ; Lieutenant ; hospital ; Jeep ; Vietcong ; 7-17th CAV 0 2730 Good Luck, Recreation, Comradery, and Communication with Family While in Vietnam For good luck, Galyean prayed often. For off days and days without flying, Galyean recalls relaxing and listening to music with his comrades. Sundays were maintenance days and typically the first or last day of someone’s deployment, so they would throw parties for all the incoming and outgoing GIs. Galyean tells a humorous story about how they once cooked steak and lobster for their dinner. He says everyone he served with was like brothers to him. While in Vietnam, he would write to his wife often. After returning from Vietnam, he has kept in touch with some of the people he served alongside. prayer ; recreation ; music ; maintenance ; party ; 501st Supply Transport Battalion ; commanding officer ; food distribution ; First Armored Division ; Army ; Qui Nhon ; Tuy Hoa ; steak ; lobster ; Mess Sergeant ; friendship ; comradery ; infantrymen ; pilot ; scout ; family ; letter ; Vietnam 0 3030 End of Military Service, Adjusting to Civilian Life, and Joining a Veterans’ Organization Galyean ended his service while at Fort Hood, Texas, from which he drove to Brawley, California, where his wife was living with her parents and working for a car dealership. In the newspaper, he learned of a job opportunity for Imperial County leading the creation of a public employment program for Vietnam veterans. He worked for Imperial County for five months until he started law school in San Diego. Galyean says he was received well upon his return from Vietnam but mentions a fellow pilot with PTSD who committed suicide. He says his wife excelled as an accountant working for her parents’ car dealership, so she had no problem finding similar work elsewhere. Galyean joined the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association and attended their convention in San Diego. He was also involved in writing some of the history of the 7-17th CAV. service ; Fort Hood (Tex.) ; Escondido (Calif.) ; newspaper ; law school ; advertisement ; Imperial County (Calif.) ; Public Employment Program ; veteran ; Vietnam ; Vietnam War ; Vietnam veteran ; personnel analyst ; Sacramento (Calif.) ; San Diego (Calif.) ; family ; community ; Navy Marine ; F-4 ; pilot ; car dealer ; high school ; accountant ; Ford ; GM ; Chrysler ; Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association ; convention ; 717th CAV 0 3478 Reflections on Military Service Galyean says it was a godsend that he survived and calls his wife the angel of his life. He thinks it is a natural response that most veterans who have seen combat have some PTSD. He says military service taught him to have faith in the Lord’s will, follow your heart, and defend the U.S. political system. wife ; PTSD ; life lessons ; military service ; war ; veteran ; faith ; attorney ; constitutional system ; government 0 3673 01:01:13 Association with North County San Diego Galyean grew up on his father’s chicken hatchery in San Marcos, California. After spending time on military bases across the country, he and his wife wanted to return to San Diego. Galyean tells the story of how his father migrated from Arkansas to San Marcos and were employed by Fred Williams, who owned multiple businesses in the city. He says that his family never left San Marcos and all of his siblings still reside there. San Marcos (Calif.) ; chicken farm ; chicken hatchery ; Fort Polk ; Louisiana ; Fort Rucker ; Alabama ; Fort Hood ; Texas ; San Diego County (Calif.) ; John Steinbeck ; Grapes of Wrath ; Arkansas ; Fred Williams ; cottage 0 3808 Final Reflections on Military Service and Veterans Galyean emphasizes that the documentary, The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam, and the movie, We Were Soldiers, are good representations of his military experience. He wishes more people knew that veterans are “just good, ordinary, responsible people.” He says his experience taught him to love your life and work, do what you love, and do it the best you can. movie ; love ; life ; ordinary ; brotherhood ; veteran ; experience ; responsible 0 Oral history Thomas Earl Galyean was a Captain in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War. He served with the 7-17th CAV as commanding officer of the aero rifle platoon, securing landing zones for aircraft. Galyean then served as an Assistant S3 for the operations section of headquarters, ensuring that aircraft received their assignments. Raised on his family’s chicken hatchery in San Marcos, California, Galyean narrates his family history, his decision to join the U.S. Army, and his interest in helicopter flight. Galyean describes his experience in flight school, including reflections on media representations of military training and the Vietnam War. Galyean describes his unique role while serving stateside, forming a military response team to suppress riots in the wake of the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Galyean meditates on the impact of controversial topics, such as the My Lai massacre, civilian casualties, and the rules of engagement. Galyean reflects on religion, comradery, family, and how the military changed his life. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.985 --> 00:00:57.994 My name is Jason Victor Byer. I'm a graduate of California State University San Marcos. Today I will be interviewing Thomas Galyean. Today's date is Tuesday, November 12, 2024. We are located at the Kellogg Library at California State University San Marcos at 333 South Twin Oaks Valley Road, San Marcos, California 92096. My relationship to the interviewee is that we are both military veterans. The names of people attending this interview are the interviewer, Jason Beyer ; the interviewee, Thomas Galyean ; and Adel Bautista, the camera operator. The purpose of this interview is to conduct an oral history. Please state your full name. 00:00:57.994 --> 00:01:00.725 Thomas Earl Galyean. 00:01:00.725 --> 00:01:02.000 Your branch of service. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:04.635 U.S. Army. 00:01:04.635 --> 00:01:06.484 The highest rank you attained. 00:01:06.484 --> 00:01:08.254 Captain. 00:01:08.254 --> 00:01:11.275 And any war or conflicts you served with. 00:01:11.275 --> 00:01:13.935 The Vietnam War. 00:01:13.935 --> 00:01:21.905 Thank you. So I'll begin by asking you your biographical details. Where were you born? 00:01:21.905 --> 00:01:24.795 San Diego, California. 00:01:24.795 --> 00:01:30.325 Does your family have any past affiliations with the military? 00:01:30.325 --> 00:02:10.544 the Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II. And my uncle was a B-25 pilot in World War II. And my father though not in the military worked for Consolidated Aircraft, building the B-25. 00:02:10.544 --> 00:02:15.504 Did you hold any jobs prior to entering the military? 00:02:15.504 --> 00:02:34.835 The only job that I had besides working on the chicken farm I grew up on was—I did fight forest fires with the U.S. Forest Service, while I was in college one summer, with the El Cariso Hot Shots. 00:02:34.835 --> 00:02:42.324 When and why did you choose to join the military? Were you drafted or did you enlist? 00:02:42.324 --> 00:04:39.805 Actually, I ended up going to, enlisting through Army ROTC because I graduated from San Marcos High School in 1964. And when I graduated, there was compulsory military service. Everybody in my class who was a male who was physically qualified for combat—if they didn't have a deferment for ROTC, Reserve Officer Training Corps, at some college—were instantly drafted. Everybody else in my class who didn't go on a deferment and who was physically qualified were drafted. So, when I enrolled at UCLA, I took Army ROTC, and that gave me the deferment necessary to complete my degree and then be able to go on active duty as a Lieutenant. So, the one job that I had before that was fighting forest fires. And that particular crew, a month-and-a-half after I went back to school, was caught in the Loop Fire. Twelve of 'em burned to death. A thirteenth one died later. But, so, uh—and that could have been my fate had I not returned to UCLA for ROTC. But in the—seeing what happened and working with those guys and the helitack units—a couple of which helped save a couple of them—interested me in helicopter flight, which is what I ultimately did in the Army. 00:04:39.805 --> 00:04:46.915 You say that you entered into the branch known as the Army. Why did you choose that specific branch? 00:04:46.915 --> 00:05:29.584 Well, actually, I had the choice at that point—because UCLA had the ROTC for the Navy and Marines as well as the Air Force—to do any one of 'em. But I at that point picked the Army because, frankly, it had a year-less time commitment. After I was done with the military—'cause it had one year less than the others did—but then when I ended up volunteering for flight—to fly—then my commitment ended up being the same. 00:05:29.584 --> 00:05:34.774 For your early days of service, what type of training or school did you have? 00:05:34.774 --> 00:17:51.243 First school I had was Armor Officer Basic, because when you graduated as a Second Lieutenant and you were gonna fly, they had already—while I was during my senior year—they had already provided me with fixed wing training. So I learned to fly a fixed wing aircraft. But they then assign you a branch for a combat branch to serve in in the event you don't make it through flight school or—and depending on what branch you ended up with, the type of assignment you got when you got done with a rotary wing flight school. So they assigned me to Armor Officer as an officer in the Armor branch, which meant that as soon as I went on active duty, I went to Officer's basic course at Fort Knox, Kentucky for Armor, where basically they teach you to be a tank platoon leader. And then from there—that was basically a three-month course—then they send you to rotary wing flight school. Now the flight school is in two four-months consecutive portions. The first portion was at Fort Wolters, Texas, and that's where they teach you to fly a helicopter. They used a couple of different aircrafts. The one that I got trained in was what they call the TH-55, which was built by Howard Hughes and Hughes Tool Company, which we then learned to fly in at Fort Wolters, Texas. Now for anybody who really wanted to see what that involved, I just found out here a few months ago that on Amazon Prime there's available a about-an-hour video which is called Personal Experience of Helicopter Pilots in Vietnam (The Personal Experience - Helicopter Warfare in Vietnam). And it shows all the different trainings you got and then different types of experiences that you would have in Vietnam. And the only one in there that didn't, wasn't exactly what I experienced all the time—and I could identify with everything in that movie—was that we were always allowed to return fire if we were fired upon. Because what we did as an Air Cavalry troop, which is what I was in, you had three platoons: one platoon was a platoon of light observation helicopters—OH-6. The idea was we would be assigned an area, and most of my flights were in the Central Highlands area of Vietnam, along and in the vicinity of the Ho Chi Minh Trail—the western boundary of South Vietnam where it bordered up against Laos and Cambodia—and it was all jungle type of activity areas, so they would assigned to us a free-fire zone, they call it a (unintelligible) area, where we knew there were no friendlies at all. The only indigenous population that could be there in some of the places were what were called Montagnards. They were individual little communities of mountain people that lived in little villages that were built up on stakes. You knew where they were, you stayed away from 'em. They stayed away from everybody. They were the—so when we would go into whatever area they would give, if it moved, we could kill it, because it was the only humans we would see would be the enemy. So the way it would work is they would give us an area to work from—and what I mean by that, there'd be a clearing or an area someplace within about a 10 to 15 minute flight from the area where you're supposed to observe and search, where they would take out a fuel truck and there would be a fuel truck for us to be able to land and refill at. And frequently there would be, depending on whether we were working with the 4th Infantry or a South Vietnamese unit, there'd usually be an extra company to a battalion of soldiers there that were friendly soldiers from where we would work. So the scouts would fly in the area, they would try and find the enemy. And above them would be flying a couple of Cobras. The press called them hunter-killer teams of two scouts and two Cobras. And they'd be on station for a couple hours, and we'd be out there with two sets. So they would come off the search and they'd be replaced immediately on station by another team of two scout light observation helicopters and two Cobras. So what would happen—and then I would have—my infantry platoon would be—fly out and land at the staging area, usually. The only time that didn't happen was if the scouts found something before we got landed. And so once the scouts found something, our command and control ship that would be out there with the hunter-killer team, they'd try and assess as quickly as possible what kind of enemy we were looking at—how big the units were there, what was it gonna take to engage. We'd try and get a first landing zone, a place where we get at least hopefully four helicopters, but a minimum of two. And so what we would do is we would take my Hueys (Bell UH-1 Iroquois) with our infantry platoon, and we'd fly into that area first, and we'd put my infantry platoon, which usually went—it was reduced because at that time we were hard—it was hard to get replacements. 20 to 30 infantrymen we would put on the ground first to secure the landing zone. And then if we needed more troops to engage whatever enemy was found, then we would, with my Huey Platoon, be ferrying in the additional troops that were needed into that landing zone. Meanwhile, as soon as the enemy was found, the scouts, if they could, would throw a smoke grenade in the area they wanted hit the hardest. The Cobras would come in there and spray up the area. We always had the—the CNC (command and control) always had extra radios with the frequencies of the closest artillery unit that was usually on a fire base on hill round. And so, they would be able to immediately call in artillery if needed. There were different points that the artillery units that were out there would have marked. We knew where they were, they knew where they were. We'd give 'em the point to fire, to first start firing, and then we would be able to adjust because we had—we were all trained, but our CNC were trained in how to adjust artillery—and so we would adjust artillery, and our CNC always had available tactical air support jets—F-100s, usually—out of Pleiku, Phan Rang, or Bearcat. Those were the three closest Air Force bases that always had F-100s available for immediate response. So we would call in a fire strike—our command and control—which would come in and shoot up the place wherever we wanted a napalm strike. And then we would bring in the rest of whatever infantrymen we wanted to engage the enemy. And then if you ever saw a movie, We Were Soldiers, that movie depicted a lot of what we did just about every day. But, plus, the one thing they learned, that movie was about the very first Air Cavalry operation. But what we learned at that point, because we were always putting people in where there was no other friendly around before dark, we would withdraw all of the people that we'd put on the ground, because there was a decent chance if we didn't, they wouldn't be there the next day. So that's basically the way we would work. If—once we were on the ground, if we had found a bunch of materiel of the enemy, our infantrymen would burn it or capture some of it. If we captured the enemy—and a lot of times we did—then we would fly the enemy to a P.O.W. camp in Pleiku. Frequently we would end up, if somebody—whether it was the enemy or some of our own soldiers that were—had been wounded, we would fly them to the hospital at Pleiku to evacuate them there. And that's basically the general way we worked from day to day. 00:17:51.243 --> 00:17:55.634 Did you receive any promotions? And if so, could you tell me about them? 00:17:55.634 --> 00:31:45.355 Yeah, well, I was—originally I was a programmed to go to Vietnam directly out of flight school, because for the first five or six years of the war, as soon as a class graduated in Fort Rucker, they immediately went to Vietnam. They had a three-year flight commitment, which meant they would go to Vietnam, come home—if they were still around—for a year, and then go back for a second year in Vietnam. But because of when I graduated from flight school—I mean I was fortunate. I was fortunate because I ended up an extra two months after the first half of flight school because my wife was pregnant and she was about ready to deliver. And the flight surgeons and her doctor at Fort Wolters said it was not safe for us to travel and her to move to Fort Rucker. Since my commitment started at the end of flight school, they said, "We'll just let you join a later class"—which is what happened. So the class that I originally started with, started the second half, about a month before I ended up starting. And as it turned out, two weeks before we graduated from the second part of flight school, which was during our tactics and combat training in a Huey, I got a stateside tour first. So I was—because of the way that it worked, I was a First Lieutenant by the time I got done with flight school. And then I ended up, as a First Lieutenant, going to Fort Hood to the First Armored Division where I was the flight operations officer for the division. Now, I had a very interesting job when I got there because besides being in charge of the flight operations, making sure all the pilots that were at Fort Hood from in the First Armored Division that were between tours of Vietnam got all their flight time, 'cause they still had to fly. But at that point in time, the year—in 1968 there had been riots at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. And so the president had ordered that there be developed a program—because it took so long to get soldiers and National Guard to Chicago for that riot to have an immediate response team. Some teams already set up to where if there was some kind of a riot in the United States that needed to have military control, they didn't run into the problem they had run into at the Chicago Convention of getting them there in time to do a lot of good. So my job was to work with the Air Force there first and organize a situation where we had a Mechanized Infantry Battalion from the First Armored Division on standby to meet with a bunch of Air Force C-130s at Gray Air Force Base—which was right next to Fort Hood, which was where we were—where they could at a moment's notice—they called the drill twice. We did it twice while I was there. Where they would say, we need to scramble like we were going to some place. So, we had it organized, which the—where the Air Force C-130s would come from and marry up with the Mechanized Infantry Battalion of the First Armored Division that was to be used to get 'em over there, load them, take 'em up and fly 'em around for a few hours to make sure, you know, that the timing was such, we could get 'em gone as quickly as possible, you know? (Galyean smiles and laughs.) And so that was kind of a screwy job. Nobody ever had it before. But that was one of the things I got to do. So that, and during that period of time, because for that first six months that I was there, I was the Flight Operations Officer, we'd have—when a Huey got a thousand hours or whatever it was of flight time in Vietnam, they would bring them back to be rebuilt—put in a new engine and do all kinds of rebuild to these aircraft that were still in shape to be rebuilt. And they would fly 'em into Gray Air Force base, take off the tail rotors and the tail boom and the rotors. And they would fly 'em over, put 'em back together there at Gray Air Force Base, and then we would get pilots there who—and we're talking 30 aircraft at a time, 30 or 40—we would just have fly down to Brownsville, which is where they were rebuilt, and then bring them back, and then the next week there'd be a bunch. So that's basically what I was doing the first six months. The second six months that I was there, I was the commanding officer of this aviation support detachment, of which the headquarters was a little part of—which is part of the 501st Supply and Transport Battalion, and the whole mission and ability of that aviation support detachment was—they gave—we had some Deuce-and-a-Halfs with a lot of PSP, pierced steel planking, that we could go out and set up a runway that the Air Force could bring in that would be a portable runway. The theory was when you're in an armored division and you're moving as hopefully you'd be moving like we saw later in Desert Storm, you'd have the ability to take with the armored division its own airport. And we had a little G.C.A. (Ground-Controlled Approach), which was a radar unit that you could call down aircraft through a cloud, you know, and a little control tower that was on a trailer that you could pull. So basically you could have your own airfield with the armored division as it was moving. So that was my job for the second six months. But by the time I was then—I went to Vietnam, I was a captain. I was—I'd had a six month commanding officer experience as a company commander of this aviation support detachment. So when I got to Vietnam for the T.O.R.—the Table of Organization—when they, I got there, they assigned me to an Air Cavalry troop. The Air Cavalry troop being consisted of three Air Cavalry—I mean, the Air Cavalry Squadron had three Air Cavalry troops and a maintenance troop. And so each one of these Air Cavalry troops would be the separate units that would go out and have a certain area to look at and to study. So I was then a Captain, which called for—when I got there, they made me the commanding officer of the aero rifle platoon, which consisted of 10 Hueys of which four or five we needed to fly every mission. And then the other two platoons—of the other platoons of Air Cavalry troop were the scout platoon, that had a dozen light observation helicopters with a pilot for each and a door gunner crew chief for each ; and a dozen Huey Cobras, gunships, and the pilots for those. So, like I say, I had the rifle platoon, so what we did was bring in my platoon every day to wherever we were gonna be to secure a landing zone if we needed one to engage the enemy. And then at the end of the day, whatever we'd put in to fight the enemy, we'd take 'em back at the end of the day. And, during the six months that I did that, it was basically, out of a week, we would probably have an average of five days that we would actually fly. Sundays were always a maintenance day, and we could pretty well count on one of the days during Monday through Saturday for some reason, whether we had too many shot down or not enough flyable because it takes a lot of maintenance to keep a helicopter in the air. We used to figure an hour of maintenance times for an hour of flight time for a Huey, and for a Cobra and an OH-6, an hour-and-a-half to two hours of maintenance time for every hour of flight. So, that's what we would do for an average, I'd say, of like five days a week for the six months that I was there in that position. Now, the last half of my time in Vietnam—and I was still as a Captain, which is what I did for the rest of the time—I was in the headquarters. And in the headquarters I was what they called an Assistant S3—S3 being the operations section of the headquarters. And my job was, for part of the time, to man the control center, which meant that we would assign the Air Cavalry squadron—also worked in conjunction with a couple of attack helicopter companies. And our headquarters would get in the assignments for what aircraft in our area needed to be supplied to what units. We'd get the—and we usually would get that by about midnight—then by two or three in the morning, hopefully we would have received from each unit's maintenance how many aircraft they had that were flyable. So we could sit there and we immediately assign what aircraft units were gonna supply what aircraft to what units, you know, to support, so we could get 'em out to where they could fly—take off as soon as the sun came up. And that's basically what I did for the last six months. 00:31:45.355 --> 00:31:56.214 What was the hardest part of military lifestyle for you to adapt to? 00:31:56.214 --> 00:38:12.885 Oh, I would say just Vietnam in general. The—it was harder probably for my wife. If you ever saw the movie We Were Soldiers by Mel Gibson, that's the only movie I've ever seen that really showed what our wives went through. But it didn't take very long to adjust though, because you had to adjust real fast (laughs). You didn't have much, much choice. The—one of the—people have asked me a lot what it was like to fly over there. And as a matter of fact, somebody had posted and asked on Facebook for some—on the website for the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association—for people to describe what it was like. Well, probably the best thing I've ever read that describes what it was like to fly in a Huey one of the missions like we flew on was something written by John Steinbeck. It turned out that John Steinbeck's wife and Lady Bird (Claudia Alta "Lady Bird" Johnson) were very close friends in college. So L.B.J. (Lyndon B. Johnson) commissioned John Steinbeck to go to Vietnam for a year, do as many things as he could, and send back daily dispatches that went to LBJ. And they got published at some time in a magazine, but ultimately the University of Virginia a few years ago collected all these and published them. And there is a three or four page dispatch that he wrote that describes his experience in flying out of Pleiku on a Air Cavalry operation in which he was flying out of the same exact place that we flew out of, into the same area with an Air Cavalry troop, a couple of years before I was there. So, anybody who wanted to read something, that's all they gotta do is Google: Helicopter, John Steinbeck, and Vietnam. And it'll pop right up and you can read it. That's—now for other means to be able to see what it was like, I saw here a month or two ago on Amazon Prime, they had done a documentary—it's about an hour long—of personal experiences of Vietnam helicopter pilots. All you gotta do is Google that, if you're on Amazon Prime, and it'll come up with this one-hour presentation that goes through the steps of flight school and then what it was like flying there. And I experienced just about everything you can see in that video, except one thing: one of the units evidently said they were not allowed to return fire if they were shot at without specific authority after that. We always had the right—as far as our unit knew—to return fire if fired upon. There was a point in time when they came down and said we couldn't fire until we were fired upon. But that presented a problem for the scouts, because usually the first way they would find the enemy—and when they would find them, the enemy would find them and start shooting at 'em. So if you didn't—if they didn't fire first, well, the usual way that the scouts would do it is if they saw the enemy, they'd target the enemy, shoot to break off, so they could get away. And then the Cobras would come down and rake the area. And then we'd bring in whatever else. So we always had the power to return fire, our unit did. And frequently our scouts had to shoot first or they were dead by the time they found the enemy. But other than that, I think that one hour documentary just about shows everything that guys experienced that—and I could identify with all of it. 00:38:12.885 --> 00:38:20.875 What were your interactions like with local cultures and the people you encountered during deployment? 00:38:20.875 --> 00:45:30.755 During the period of time that I was the Assistant S3, scheduling things and running the operation center during the day when there was an emergency—something had to be done, they'd call in and we'd scramble whatever ship—because we always had standby ships available for emergencies. There was a situation that happened—and frankly the unit I was in, was the only unit that ever had a complete history that was written afterwards, 7-17th CAV (7th Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment), that from which they solicited recollections of actual pilots and crews from the battle plan (Galyean's cellphone rings and he silences it) things of all of the different units in the 7-17th., and it described it a little bit in this. What happened was, you see the rockets that were fired from helicopter from a Cobra or a Huey, when they used the Huey B models for gunships, were from rocket pods that that were developed for jets—for the F-4, the F-100, which is a very solid platform. Now with a Huey and a Cobra—with the type of rotor system they have, which was a single rotor—every time that the rotor is perpendicular to the direction of flight, you get a little (Galyean bounces once in his chair) bump, a little increase lift. And so you're always like this—(Galyean bounces side to side in his chair)—when you're flying. And you—that's that (Galyean points up, twirls his finger, and imitates a helicopter sound) wha, wha, wha, wha, wha that you hear when you hear a Huey go by. And they didn't have for those all of the solid state electoral connections for the firing operations like the jets had. Some of the things had to be soldered as part of making it work for that kind of aircraft. When you do this (Galyean bounces in his seat) to soldered electrical wires, sometimes they become disconnected. And so occasionally what would happen is it would get disconnected and when they would try to fire a rocket, it wouldn't fire. So there was a procedure that we would do when that happened—'cause it would happen from time to time. You'd take that—that Cobra would fly to the nearest Air Force base, where they always had a place that you could, at the Air Force base, that you could land, you could hover over to and sit down, and they would remove the—they had the ability to remove that pod and then disarm it so nobody accidentally got hurt. And so we had this—I got this call that a—one of the Cobras for one of our troops that had been working up north along the beach area had had a misfire on one of these rockets. And that the rocket had hit on the beach near where a little boy was playing, and he got some injury to his leg. So I scrambled a Huey to go out there and pick him up and his mother and take him to the—we were near Qui Nhon at that point—to the hospital at Qui Nhon to tend to his injury. Well this was a couple of years after an incident that happened at a place called My Lai, where an infantry Lieutenant had allowed his unit to shoot up some civilians in a village and they couldn't without really identifying for sure that they were the enemy. And as a result of that incident with this Lieutenant Calley (Lieutenant William Calley) and My Lai, there was a standing order, like the military does from time to time, where somebody screws up, they go to the leaders above that to try to analyze what could that higher leader have done to prepare for—to make sure it doesn't happen again. Did he chastise 'em for not having done whatever they felt they should have done? But at that point in time, then there became a standing order that if there was a civilian casualty as a result of our operation, there would be investigated to make sure as to whether or not it was intentional or whether it was accidental. So I get this call to take, to go investigate—and it just so happened we had in our headquarters at that time, what we call the Kit Carson Scout, that was an NVA (North Vietnamese Army) First Lieutenant who had defected. And as a matter of fact, he'd worked with my platoon on the ground, so I was very familiar with him 'cause I'd been on the ground with him in operations. And so I took this—and we went over to the hospital, which was only less than a half-hour drive in a Jeep. So we went over there to interview the mother. And when we got there and the mother found out why we were there, her comment was, "I know it was a mistake, I know it was an accident, don't chastise the pilot because he might get mad and not come back to help protect us from the Vietcong." So I thought that was kind of a unique experience. 00:45:30.755 --> 00:45:35.355 Was there something that you did for good luck while you were in Vietnam? 00:45:35.355 --> 00:45:40.684 Prayed a lot. 00:45:40.684 --> 00:45:46.885 What did you do for recreation or when you were off duty? 00:45:46.885 --> 00:48:42.355 Well, when we were off, like on the days we didn't fly for summer or on the Sundays, we'd relax, play music. Because Saturdays—because Sundays were always a down day for maintenance—we would usually on Saturday nights—and on Sundays were usually the day that we had new guys coming in and the old guys going out. When you arrived, you knew if you were living at the end of your tour, the day you already knew when you were going home. And so it was always on Sundays—so we had people leaving and more people coming in. So we had kind of a situation where, what we used to do is if you were one of the one or two or three of the officers who were—or pilots—who were gonna be leaving the follow a week after that, you would throw a party for the guys who were leaving the next day. And so what would you do? You get drunk, and you just have a party. (Galyean laughs) I had kind of a funny situation if we were able to do. Because of when I was in the 501st Supply Transport Battalion, the guy who was the commanding officer of the food distribution for the First Armored Division and I were good friends, because we were in the same battalion, and he had just happened to be responsible for the food distribution for the Army in Qui Nhon in the area that we were. And I was able to call him, and—because he was so close—and he got us a couple of cases of steaks for our party. And that morning—that Saturday morning, since we were able to—we were near a place called Tuy Hoa where there were lobster boats that came in every morning. We flew out and landed on the beach, and our Mess Sergeant went with us with, and we got a bunch of live lobsters that he took back and immediately put in a boiling pot, 'cause they had to be boiled while they were alive. So we—our party that night had steak and lobster (Galyean laughs). But I mean, that was the kind of things you did for recreation, and that was about it in our unit. 00:48:42.355 --> 00:48:52.054 What kind of friendships and camaraderie did you form while serving and with whom? 00:48:52.054 --> 00:49:43.304 Every single one of my infantrymen and the pilots I knew, we were like brothers. There was never any problem when we would have a scout go down and we weren't sure the condition. I had infantrymen volunteering at any time to repel down there to help 'em and help get 'em out. You know, Jason. You're brothers. So— 00:49:43.304 --> 00:49:51.844 How did you stay in touch with family and friends? Did you choose to keep communication with them while deployed? 00:49:51.844 --> 00:50:30.425 Um—(Galyean laughs)—you really didn't have much time. While I was in Vietnam, I'd write a letter to my wife frequently. But after that, yes. I from time to time have kept in touch with some of the guys, as I have with some of the guys that I was visiting who were burned from that fire when I was in the forest service. But yeah. 00:50:30.425 --> 00:50:39.594 So now we're coming towards your end of service. Do you recall the day your service ended? Where were you when your service ended? 00:50:39.594 --> 00:50:43.505 Fort Hood, Texas. And yes, I do remember (Galyean laughs). 00:50:43.505 --> 00:50:47.005 Did you return home or where did you go? 00:50:47.005 --> 00:53:55.625 From there, my wife's parents at the time had moved from the Escondido area. They lived in Brawley. He had a car dealership then, down there. So I went to—we drove back across the—from Fort Hood, Texas to their place. First I picked up a newspaper. I was scheduled to go to law school. So when I got out it was April, and I was scheduled to start law school in the fall. And I just happened to pick up a newspaper and there was an advertisement for somebody at the—to work at the county of Imperial as—and they wanted a vet. And it was because the government, as it turned out, had just passed a law. It was something they called the PEP program, which was a program for—public employment program—for Vietnam vets. And what they were trying to do is get state and local governments to come up with jobs for vets that were coming out of the Vietnam War now, because now we're standing down. We're getting outta Vietnam. And so it just so happened they needed somebody to administer the beginning of their program so—for the county of Imperial. So they hired me as a personnel analyst to go to Sacramento for a weekend to help figure out the rules of how this was gonna work and then start the plan and program for the county of Imperial. So then I was going around to school districts and different city governments and everything, trying to get them to come up with a job, and then the government would pay half of the salary with the idea they would do that for the first year, and then hopefully the public employer would continue in the future. And so I did that from the time that I got out of the Army for the county of Imperial for basically five months until law school started for me in San Diego. 00:53:55.625 --> 00:54:02.275 How were you received by your family and community when you returned back from Vietnam? 00:54:02.275 --> 00:55:00.675 Well, well frankly, because my family was always very supportive, and of course then I was at Fort Hood, so I mean—and when I was in law school, which was—and working for the PEP program and then in law school—I was well received. The only thing that was kind of a real bummer was the other pilot in my unit that had been a Navy Marine F-4 pilot evidently had PTSD so bad that on our contracts final, at the end of the first year, he stuck his head in an oven and killed himself. 00:55:00.675 --> 00:55:06.005 How did you readjust to civilian life? You said you went back to law school? 00:55:06.005 --> 00:56:50.824 Yeah, I went to law school, and let's just say I was highly motivated (laughs). I really worked. And my wife's father had always been a car dealer, and she had while she was in high school worked as an accountant for him—'cause there's a—it's a—car dealerships have an incredibly complex accounting system, particularly since they gotta have parts for just every kind of car, you know,? If you're a Ford, you gotta be able to repair GM, Chrysler, et cetera. So you got a complete inventory and financial accounting for the different parts sections. And she had did that when she was in high school for her dad. So she had no problem while we were, while I was in law school in San Diego. The first car dealership she walked into hired her on the spot to do accounting for them for parts. And so she had no problem adapting really, really quickly, 'cause she got a job doing exactly what she had done while she was in high school and what she did somewhat while I was in Vietnam for her dad. They lived—she lived with her parents. She and my son lived with her parents while I was in Vietnam. 00:56:50.824 --> 00:56:56.000 Did you join any veterans organizations after you returned home? 00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:58.000 Yeah, I did. Eventually when they came up with this Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association, I joined that and went to their convention when it was in San Diego and participated in a couple of activities that they had and was involved in the writing of the history of the 7-17th CAV, because it turned out the guy that replaced me in Vietnam was the one who did all the work to get all of the after-action reports from all of the different units and generated this history. And then he would send it to people before the last edition was published to be able to add to it what their old personal recollections were. So I worked on that with him, but that was about it. 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:09.585 So we're moving on to reflections. How has your service impacted your life, your community, your faith, and your family? 00:58:09.585 --> 00:59:43.315 My faith. I think it was a godsend that I was—I survived. And my wife, she was—she's the angel of my life. And she's a very spiritual person. I think it—particularly through what I've been going through—appreciate what veterans have gone through since then. And it's—I cannot fathom that there are very many veterans that have seen the things that most veterans who are part of the point of the sword in any of these war activities wouldn't have to some degree some PTSD—would just be human. I'm sure you know. 00:59:43.315 --> 00:59:53.905 What are some life lessons you learned from military service? 00:59:53.905 --> 01:00:21.114 Always do your best and have faith that the Lord's will will be presumed—will occur—if you give it a chance—if you follow your heart. 01:00:21.114 --> 01:00:33.414 What message would you like to leave for future generations who will view or hear this interview? 01:00:33.414 --> 01:01:13.934 I've spent the rest of my life as an attorney. I would say without a doubt, this constitutional system that we have is probably the best governments—governance—system there is, and it's worth defending. 01:01:13.934 --> 01:01:21.184 How did you become associated with the San Diego North County region? 01:01:21.184 --> 01:03:28.000 Well, I grew up in San Marcos on a chicken farm. My dad had a chicken hatchery. And so it wasn't hard when you've been places like Fort Polk, Louisiana ; Fort Rucker, Alabama ; Fort Hood, Texas ; to come home and realize that San Diego County is a good place to come home to. So that's why my wife and I knew that's where we wanted to come back to. Same reason my dad, when he was—my dad settled ultimately in San Marcos because if you ever read John Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath, my father and his uncle and cousins, when they lost or were losing their little walnut ranch in Arkansas, came out and were traveling all over picking crops and doing that. And when they got to San Marcos, a guy gave him a job at that point, and he decided, This is where I want to live. And this is where he—so that's—it was a guy's name, was Fred Williams. Fred Williams had a square dance barn, he had the first gas station, and he gave my dad a job there. He had these four little cottages that were adobe cottages. My dad got his mother and three younger siblings here. And we never—he never left and we never left. We came back, as did all of my siblings. 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:44.864 Thank you for taking the time to share your recollections of military service. In conclusion, is there anything you've always wanted to share about your service or veteran experience that you never have? 01:03:44.864 --> 01:04:01.554 No, I think I've probably just about hit—I mean, like I say, all you gotta do is see those two—see that one—those two movies, and you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. 01:04:01.554 --> 01:04:10.485 What do you wish more people knew about veterans? 01:04:10.485 --> 01:05:09.905 There just good, ordinary, responsible people. And they've experienced some things that I think give them an understanding of what our society is worth and what it means to be a part of a brotherhood. They experienced it. 01:05:09.905 --> 01:05:16.914 In your unveiling of the journey, what are the lessons learned from your military experience? 01:05:16.914 --> 01:05:29.000 Love life. Love what you're doing, do what you love, and do it the best that you can. 01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:32.704 Thank you for your time today. 01:05:32.704 --> 01:05:34.204 You got it. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en video Property rights reside with the university. Copyrights are retained by the creators of the records and their heirs. This resource is licensed for noncommercial educational use using CC NC-BY 4.0. Please contact Special Collections at archives csusm.edu if you need reproductions made. Please see the related “Preferred Citation note” for language on citing materials from this collection. &#13 ; Permission to examine Library materials is not authorization to publish or to reproduce the examined material in whole, or in part. 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The researcher agrees not to record, reproduce, or disclose any Social Security number or other information of a highly personal nature that may be found. 0 https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=GalyeanThomas_BeyerJason_2024-11-12_access.xml GalyeanThomas_BeyerJason_2024-11-12_access.xml https://archivesearch.csusm.edu/repositories/3/resources/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Galyean, Thomas. Interview November 12th, 2024. Description An account of the resource Thomas Earl Galyean was a Captain in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War. He served with the 7-17th CAV as commanding officer of the aero rifle platoon, securing landing zones for aircraft. Galyean then served as an Assistant S3 for the operations section of headquarters, ensuring that aircraft received their assignments. Raised on his family’s chicken hatchery in San Marcos, California, Galyean narrates his family history, his decision to join the U.S. Army, and his interest in helicopter flight. Galyean describes his experience in flight school, including reflections on media representations of military training and the Vietnam War. Galyean describes his unique role while serving stateside, forming a military response team to suppress riots in the wake of the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Galyean meditates on the impact of controversial topics, such as the My Lai massacre, civilian casualties, and the rules of engagement. Galyean reflects on religion, comradery, family, and how the military changed his life. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SC027-071 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-11-12 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thomas Galyean Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army—Veterans Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Poultry farms United States. Forest Service El Cariso Hotshots (Calif.) Reserve Officers' Training Corps San Marcos High School (San Marcos, Calif.) University of California, Los Angeles Loop Fire, Calif., 1966 Air pilots—Training of Fort Wolters (Tex.) Fort Knox (Ky.) Bell AH-1 Cobra (Attack helicopter) Phan Rang (Vietnam) Bearcat (Vietnam) Napalm Fort Rucker (Ala.) Fort Hood (Tex.) Democratic National Convention (1968 : Chicago, Ill.) Gray Air Force Base (Tex.) Ground-controlled approach (Aeronautics) Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association United States. Army. 7th Cavalry Regiment University of Virginia My Lai Massacre, Vietnam, 1968 Legal education—United States Lawyers Fort Polk (La.) Ho Chi Minh Trail (Vietnam) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant San Diego (Calif.) San Marcos (Calif.) Texas California Kentucky Vietnam Tây Nguyên (Vietnam) Vietnam (Republic : 1954-1975) Laos Cambodia Chicago (Ill.) Brownsville (Tex.) Brawley (Calif.) Escondido (Calif.) Imperial County (Calif.) Sacramento (Calif.) Louisiana Alabama Arkansas Pleiku (Vietnam) Phan Rang (Vietnam) Biên Hòa (Vietnam) Qui Nhon (Vietnam) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Thomas Galyean License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/</a> Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. San Diego Veterans History Initiative Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/files/original/49655703ca9580fa7a280e4ff737314a.pdf 39f896b95a878e35d72cb83b35512638 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcripts Description An account of the resource Written oral histories and transcripts are available for researchers that prefer the written word, or to see the whole interview in a document. Transcripts of <a href="https://archivesoralhistories.csusm.edu/collections/show/5">audio and video files</a> are also available as part of those video files. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Galyean, Thomas. Interview Transcript, November 12, 2024. Description An account of the resource Thomas Earl Galyean was a Captain in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War. He served with the 7-17th CAV as commanding officer of the aero rifle platoon, securing landing zones for aircraft. Galyean then served as an Assistant S3 for the operations section of headquarters, ensuring that aircraft received their assignments. Raised on his family’s chicken hatchery in San Marcos, California, Galyean narrates his family history, his decision to join the U.S. Army, and his interest in helicopter flight. Galyean describes his experience in flight school, including reflections on media representations of military training and the Vietnam War. Galyean describes his unique role while serving stateside, forming a military response team to suppress riots in the wake of the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Galyean meditates on the impact of controversial topics, such as the My Lai massacre, civilian casualties, and the rules of engagement. Galyean reflects on religion, comradery, family, and how the military changed his life. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thomas Galyean Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jason Beyer Adel Bautista Justin Gans Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-11-12 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant San Diego (Calif.) San Marcos (Calif.) Texas California Kentucky Vietnam Tây Nguyên (Vietnam) Vietnam (Republic : 1954-1975) Laos Cambodia Chicago (Ill.) Brownsville (Tex.) Brawley (Calif.) Escondido (Calif.) Imperial County (Calif.) Sacramento (Calif.) Louisiana Alabama Arkansas Pleiku (Vietnam) Pleiku (Vietnam) Phan Rang (Vietnam) Biên Hòa (Vietnam) Qui Nhon (Vietnam) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available California State University San Marcos University Library Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">In copyright</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Thomas Galyean Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GalyeanThomas_BeyerJason_2024-11-12_transcript Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army—Veterans Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Poultry farms United States. Forest Service El Cariso Hotshots (Calif.) Reserve Officers' Training Corps San Marcos High School (San Marcos, Calif.) University of California, Los Angeles Loop Fire, Calif., 1966 Air pilots—Training of Fort Wolters (Tex.) Fort Knox (Ky.) Bell AH-1 Cobra (Attack helicopter) Napalm Fort Rucker (Ala.) Fort Hood (Tex.) Democratic National Convention (1968 : Chicago, Ill.) Gray Air Force Base (Tex.) Ground-controlled approach (Aeronautics) Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association United States. Army. 7th Cavalry Regiment University of Virginia My Lai Massacre, Vietnam, 1968 Legal education—United States Lawyers Fort Polk (La.) Ho Chi Minh Trail (Vietnam) Community history San Diego Veterans History Initiative Veteran experience