Estrada, Roberta. Interview November 3, 2022

April 6, 2023

Transcript

Suzy Karasik: Good afternoon. Today is November 3rd, 2022. My name is Suzy Karasik and I am interviewing Roberta Estrada as part of the North County Oral History Initiative. Roberta Estrada, thank you for joining me today.

Roberta Estrada: My pleasure.

Karasik: Great. So, I think probably the best part--the best place to start is a little bit of background--where you were born--and let's talk about what was your childhood, like when you went to school, and how you identified yourself. So, I'll give you plenty of time to go over that.

Estrada: Well, I was born in--at Camp Pendleton at the old Marine Corps Hospital in 1945, and I'm the oldest of three children. My parents met at Camp Pendleton 00:01:00because my dad is from the Midwest, and we're a very tight-knit family, and did a lot of things together. My mother i--wa--well, she's passed away, but my mother was French and Native American from San Luis Rey area, and I am actually a--let me think now, what--third, fourth-born native of the area. So, I went to school very, very short period of time in Oceanside where we lived at the time when I started kindergarten. And my dad says, "No, that's too close to Camp Pendleton. I'm out of the Marine Corps now. So, we're going to move." So we moved to Vista (chuckles), long ways away. So, I only attended there for two 00:02:00months. At the time there was no busing for kindergarten children in Vista, so I didn't go to school until I went into first grade. Went for two years in Vista and my dad says, "Met a couple and they said 'Oh no, you have to put your child in school in San Marcos because the schools are smaller and we liked them.'" So, he says, "Okay, we'll shift you over there." So, I came to San Marcos in the third grade, and was there until I finished eighth grade, first graduating class out of what was then Alvin Dunn School, and then--now it's changed to La Mirada 00:03:00Academy. Then I went to--we didn't have high school in San Marcos. So, the kids that--the children that went to school in San Marcos and finished eighth grade were split up between Escondido and a few of us went in to Vista, because we were on the border of Vista and San Marcos. And, it was a much bigger school than San Marcos was when it was built, and so my dad says, "We'll get you in there." Okay. So, my junior year of high school, I switched back to San Marcos schools with all of the people that--children--all the friends that I had and been raised with through school, and I finished high school the year that San Marcos became a city in 1963.

Karasik: Very interesting.

Estrada: Yes, and it's been--

Karasik: And how was your experience there, like, when you said you were happy to go back to the school that you'd been with your friends in grade school? And were there other Native American children there? And let's talk a little bit about also your Mexican last name and how you felt that might have been an advantage.

Estrada: Well, at that time, my last name was not Estrada. At that time, my last name was Guy, very Anglo. So, in school, while I was in school in Vista, there were more of the local Hispanic children, and I don't think I even associated with Native American children being--or picked out children as being--Native American at that time. All the way through school. I don't believe I ever did. And I don't think that that even happened until after I finished high school and 00:05:00I did go to college and majored in Spanish, and with a general education for elementary studies. But, I don't ever remember connecting to the Native Americans at that time. My husband, his family--well, his fam--his immediate family was from Anaheim, but his father was from Pala. So, he was the Native. But he had the Native American in him. And the only reason that he got the Native American--the last name of Estrada was because that--his grandfather worked for people whose name was Estrada, and if they went to get any kind of bank accounts or do anything in town, they had to have a last name. They 00:06:00couldn't just go by their Native American names. So, they took the last name of what we call the dueños, and those are the people that had the--the owners of the ranches and that's where the Estrada name came from. But, um, my husband was the first one to get in--no, actually my mother, because her mother was Native American, and her father was also Native American. And s--their--my grandfather is from one of the prominent families in Oceanside, the Foussat family. And he is one of three brothers. So, he had a truck farm and we all learned how to help out on the truck farm. And that's when I met a lot of the other Natives, I guess you would say, or--well, actually there weren't a lot of Natives. There were 00:07:00more Hispanics than there were Natives that, uh, were in that area.

Karasik: And back in that time, those years, did they k--refer to people as Natives or as Indians.

Estrada: As Indians and if you talked to my father-in-law who was half-blood, he said that they could not claim being Indian or Native American and--or they would be put on--just like on the opposite side of the room at the end of the line or whatever. They had to claim--they ha--the Hispanic background, the Mexican background, in order to be eligible for a lot of things. And--

Karasik: So, this was talked about at home, and you were prepared to know how to best present yourself when you were in school or those situations.

Estrada: I would say not until I probably was late high school.

Karasik: Mm-hmm. But it was talked about at home.

Estrada: A little bit. Well, be--the first thing that happened was that my father didn't speak any--well, my mother spoke Spanish and that--because that was--they didn't use a lot of the Native language at the time, and my father didn't. So, it was, "Speak to the children in English. They need to learn in English." And they were married in the Catholic church, but my father had to--and in San Luis Rey Mission, in fact--but my father had to sign papers to say that my mother was to be allowed to raise the children as she was raised. So, because he was from the Midwest, and--

Karasik: She would be allowed--

Estrada: She would be allowed-- (nodding)

Karasik: --to raise the children.

Estrada: Yes. She would be.

Karasik: And this was the San Luis Rey Mission--

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: --Band.

Estrada: They were--well, yes. They were married in--at the San Luis Rey Mission 00:09:00in 1944, and that's when--shortly after I was--I was probably about late high school when I--when my mother was getting more involved with the Native American group. She was more into helping others than--than trying to--to say "You're--you're Native American, Roberta. You need to think about this. You need to do this. You need to do that." She never really pointed that out to us. I have a younger sister and a younger brother, and the three of us have become pretty involved with the tribe now, of which I am part of the Tribal Council. My husband was part of the Tribal Council first, but when he could not do it any 00:10:00longer, then I was helping him by sitting by his side to start with. And then--and then I became part of the Tribal Council itself, aft--no, before he passed away.

Karasik: I'm curious there. It sounds like, because you became part of the Tribal Council, and you are now, are women more respected and it's a matriarchal kind of a society? And how did that feel for you, looking at other cultures where women weren't perhaps quite as--

Estrada: Yes. There is more, um,--When you--If you look at our Tribal Council, I think it is a majority of women. I never even thought about it that way. But yes. And the other thing is that I would say that there were times when I would say, "Why don't they let her speak. Why don't--Why does he have to talk for 00:11:00her?" You know, when I would meet other families. And I, when I came--I went away to college, came back, and taught school here in San Marcos. And, um, the first class I taught was a kindergarten class and they were hiring--I was hired as a bilingual teacher, because I did have a Spanish major. And I can remember parents bringing their children in and not being allowed. The--the mother usually was not allowed to speak for the--for--for them. Or she would speak for the child, but if I asked a question, the mother would always turn and look to see if it was okay to answer or not.

Karasik: And what year was this?

Estrada: 1976. When I changed my name. Well, actually I came back in '70--let's see, '68.

Karasik: Right.

Estrada: I came back in '68. I--What I had intended in--When I went to college, I went to college at a--what was called a county Normal School in the state of Wisconsin, because that was where my dad was from. I moved there. I lived with family so that I didn't have to pay the extra in--tuition for anything. And when I came--and that was an experience in itself, because the-- I mean, my first teaching classes, my student teaching classes, were in one-room schools where they had everybody. The first room was just kindergarten through fourth grade, and the teacher I was teaching under was actually the principal of the school too. The second session was (chuckles) an eighth grade and that was even more 00:13:00interesting because that eighth grade had these kids that were much bigger than I was at the time. And, I mean, 'cuz it was only two years after I had finished high school. And, uh, then when I--I said, "You know. I like Wisconsin. I like the changes in the weather and the foliage and all of that. It was just really nice. But I'm a California girl." I came back. I went to school when they were first building Cal State San Bernardino. And I finished off my--Well, first when I came back, I had to get the basics from Palomar because we skipped right to the last two years of school. And now I had to go back and get my beginning language, my beginning math, my beginning sciences that the colleges require. 00:14:00Then I went to--When I finished at Palomar, I went to Cal State San Bernardino for two years and got my Life Credential for teaching, which is a no more existing thing now, anyhow. I don't have to go back to take classes in order to teach. I could--I've been retired for thirteen plus years now. But I could go in and apply and still be eligible to get a job now if I wanted to, which I don't because I'm too involved with too many other things.

Karasik: Great. Um, yeah, I'm aware of that. They do not offer the Lifetime anymore. So, what was it like when you said, "I'm a California girl, and I want to come back." It sounds like a lot of things had changed within you as well. And I thought it was really interesting the way that you noticed how the women 00:15:00didn't feel as comfortable--comfortable to speak. But what kind of changes did you see when you came back to the area, and--not even so much what did you see, but how did it feel for you? Obviously, you were thrilled to be back. But what--what did you kind of notice then and how did that shape the way that you carried on with your life?

Estrada: Well, I think that I noticed at that time, probably into my maybe second or third year here, that the parents, the mothers were becoming more involved in what was going on. And they were more interested in how to help their children at the time. And that was a--a plus. I had a lot of connections to people that I could call on in the city also that helped out. I mean, yes, we 00:16:00had--I had friends that would bring their sheep in to show what happened to the sheep when they sheared it. And one of the boys that graduated from high school with me ended up to be the fire captain and I would call them and they would come out and do demonstrations during the--that. So, it just--and parents just really wanted to be a part of what was going on. And I think the moms became more involved because dads had to be working.

Karasik: Right. And so was that part of the curriculum or was it--were you more free then to say "Hey, I think it would be a good idea for these children to see these kinds of living situations."

Estrada: It was integrated into the curriculum. Yes. I'm going to say it that way. Because I could make a lesson--and I'm not bragging--but I could make a 00:17:00lesson out of, you know, a Hershey's candy bar and teaching fractions. But it was something that you just made the children feel like they were part of your school community then. Other than that, they didn't, you know--you go to school, you sit at a desk, you see, you pay attention to what the te--You're here to learn is what they were taught. And I have to admit that was one of the things that the parents really instilled in them. But we would integrate a lot of the--

Karasik: Life skills.

Estrada: --skills. Life skills. And we--

Karasik: Yes.

Estrada: We made ice cream, so they'd learn how to measure. And we would--we celebrated all the cultures. You couldn't celebrate Christmas as Christmas. This was an interesting one. So I incorporated all the different countries that I 00:18:00could think of and incorporated it into finding out about different cultures and their traditions at that time. So that was how I helped.

Karasik: And there wasn't a problem with that?

Estrada: Not as long as I did that. I was--

Karasik: That you knew of.

Estrada: There were--I was observed just like every other teacher had to be observed. I was observed a lot, and everything--I never had any problems with--and we had to turn in lesson plans on it. You know, it was just like "you want me to tell you exactly what I'm going to be doing in every single minute?" "Yes, we do." "Okay. So, I'll write down general ones and you can come in and look any time you want." (laughs)

Karasik: Right. Well, it sounds like, uh, it was definitely an--a--a--a plus or an advantage for you to have been from the area, having gone to another area to 00:19:00kind of gain that knowledge including your school. But that experience. And so would you say that it was definitely a benefit for you to feel like more imbedded in the community and you had all those--

Estrada: Oh, yes.

Karasik: --connections and that made your life a lot more.

Estrada: And because I taught for thirty-two years, I actually ended up teaching children of classmates that I had in school. Because a lot a--at that time they weren't moving out of California. I mean, they weren't moving out of San Marcos (laughs) as far as that goes. A lot of people stayed.

Karasik: And people weren't moving in as much, as well, as they are now.

Estrada: We did--yeah. The--in my later years in teaching, then we had the--the children from Vietnam, the chil--you know, that--the immigrants from there. So--

Karasik: Mm-hmm.

Estrada: During that Vietnam time.

Karasik: And I would assume that you integrate that--integrated them into the class. Or how did you handle some of that?

Estrada: (laughs) You're going to laugh, but I would speak Spanish to them. And I forget--I forget that wasn't their second lan--their first language. And I would--but I--uh, there's just one little--one little Vietnamese girl that sticks out in my mind so vividly is because she did not speak English when she started. So, we ran the--well, we were already using an ESL program because of going in to--well, having mostly Spanish children in the classroom at the time. And then, um, she made such a tremendous advance. By the time she graduated from high school, she was Valedictorian.

Karasik: Oh, isn't that great!

Estrada: Yeah. So, in her--in her twelve years, you know, she was, um--she just 00:21:00moved right up the ladder. But it didn't hurt her at all that we were speaking to her in Spanish. She picked up some! (laughs)

Karasik: At a young age, yes.

Estrada: Uh-huh.

Karasik: It's a lot easier. Well, I'd kind of like to move on to--I mean there's--we could talk about how your work has changed since then. But I do happen to know that you're a--a basket weaver. I don't know if it's a--if there's certain levels or if you're a professional.

Estrada: I'm a beginner!

Karasik: Oh, you are? But you're very involved with the community and so maybe you could tell us, then. You were probably noticing changes, because certainly after the war and then after the Vietnam War, you know, society was changing considerably.

Estrada: Oh, yes!

Karasik: But when did you--like with the basket weaving and some of that, has that just been later in your retirement years or was it in--and you were raising children?

Estrada: I have two sons, yes. I have two sons that are--I don't even know--they're 43 and 40, I think, right now. Forty--no, they're 41 and 44. One's going to be 44 next week. And I have to say that I didn't really become involved in--as much with the tribe until after I retired. So, it's been in the last thirteen plus years, only because I didn't feel like I had enough time. I--I know you were a teacher also. But I--And I know that that just took up so much of my time, and my husband used to tell me, "Aren't you done--Aren't you off your job clock yet?" Or something like that would always be the remark. Now, he passed away three years ago, and I think that's when I've really become more 00:23:00involved in the basket weaving, only because I felt like I needed to have something more that occupied me than sitting and thinking about what was going on. But, my cousin Diania Caudell says, "Come with me. You're not working today. Come with me. I'm going to do a presentation at a school," or "Come and help me." That's how it started. And, when we teach in the schools, we do a different style of basket only because it's a little bit easier and we don't use traditional plants at that time, because you don't know if they've had any insecticide in them. You don't know if they--you know, how safe or they're going to have a reaction. And that's the last thing you want if you go into a cla--into a group of 50 kids and have to do a--a--a basket and have somebody 00:24:00breaking out with a rash all over them. But so we went to cane products and we do a basic weave, and we make the starts for them. So, that's what I've been doing now. Because we're doing it in another couple of weeks. We have a couple of groups going on. And then, they just finish the basket. And that has been going with kids from, oh, Montessori aged schools--I mean, Montessori--for preschools all the way through to like eighth grade, and then some--Well, we've done it with the Cal State San Marcos and San Diego State also, um, college kids. Because they were in their Native American classes and their Native Studies classes, and we did baskets with them. And they would come and visit what we call Indian Rock in Vista. And it's a puberty rock for girls, puberty 00:25:00stage. And so, um, they would come up and the--the schools have been--wa--Cal State San Marcos was involved in putting native plants there. And so, we worked very closely with them. I have a cousin now who was a professor at San Diego State, so we've become involved with some of her classes too. We also have--we do demonstrations that we call demonstrations where we use the native plants and do the native weave which is a little bit different and a little bit more complex because you have to use the awl in order to get the thread through. And so, we use the--the juncus and the--and the deer grass, and we're going to be doing that tomorrow! At a school in San Luis Rey.

Karasik: Oh, there's so much there. One thing--when you said "cane," I--I'm--I'm 00:26:00thinking sugar cane.

Estrada: Oh, no. It's--

Karasik: Wha--

Estrada: --it's the in--inside part of bamboo.

Karasik: Of bamboo! Okay.

Estrada: Yeah. They take it out and they compress it. And so, then it--and it--it comes--

Karasik: Now, who's they. Do you get it--?

Estrada: It's from--we get it from a company in--in--in Huntington Beach.

Karasik: So, it is processed.

Estrada: It's processed.

Karasik: And they grow those there like they have maybe a ware--a greenhouse of--

Estrada: He gets it into a warehouse. We get it from a guy in a warehouse up there.

Karasik: Uh-huh.

Estrada: Only because, um, it's just safer--

Karasik: It's trusted.

Estrada: --to use with it--

Karasik: --a trusted source, yeah.

Estrada: I should have brought it inside because I--

Karasik: I--yeah.

Estrada: I had some outside because I had to bring some for Diania! (laughs)

Karasik: Oh yeah? And so, the other thing that I think is really interesting when you said "Puberty Rock." So is this something that was passed down for generations, and do you think that our an--your ancestors, I mean the--

Estrada: I'm sure that there were ancestors that went there and you--there's 00:27:00markings. It's on Indian Rock Road in Vista, off of Indian Rock. But it has markings and signs, handprints. But then of course, in the modern day, it's been vandalized and so we've worked a lot with different companies and different schools and different technicians in order to find out how to remove a lot of that, because you can't just go up there and paint over it like they do on the curbs and the houses and the sides of the walls, now. So, it has--(chuckles) it has poison oak around it, on purpose--(laughs)

Karasik: Oh!

Estrada: --now, so that you can't go near it. But it was--the--Moro Hill near Camp Pendleton is part of our creation story. And it was from there a short 00:28:00distance to this Indian Rock and that's where girls would go and do their handprints, or do a s--sign that, you know, a--

Karasik: Like a coming-of-age ceremony.

Estrada: It's much different than the boys. The boys go through a much rougher one. I mean, ants, and I don't know what else. But the girls did, but--

Karasik: Did you participate?

Estrada: I did not participate in that. And I was trying to get that information out of my mom. She reset--she told me that she remembered doing something, but then that's it, you know. I never really--before she passed away--never really found out what the "it" was or the "something" was.

Karasik: Right.

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: And that's―is there some sadness around that, or just wishing that you―

Estrada: Oh, I―definitely now, because I'm learning so much more about the 00:29:00Native culture and the tribe itself, the intertwining of the families, the knowing that I have cousins beyond cousins, this kind of thing, and trying to have somebody right here (taps her right shoulder) on my little shoulder sometimes that would say, "Oh, that's the daughter of your aunt blah-blah-blah. Or your cousin blah," and just trying to make sure that I knew. And she guided along that, because she was the--considered the elder in the tribe, when she passed away. And that's been four years, a little bit over four years now. But, attended everything, and so that's when I would learn more. I'd say, "I've seen them before, mom, but I don't really remember." She says, "Well, when we were at your uncle's house in the valley, that part of his family―" And I thought, 00:30:00okay. Those were the kinds of things that―

Karasik: When you say, "I've seen them," you're talking about some of the people that were in your family.

Estrada: You would―either the family or people that would be associated with the family. I mean, I was at a Dia de Los Muertos last weekend in Fallbrook, and I thought, "Gee, a lot of these people (turning her head from side to side) I recognize." And I would stop to think, and I'd have to either go up and ask them, "Have I met you before?" (laughs) Or something like that. So that I would be able to make a connection.

Karasik: Mmm.

Estrada: And some of them I actually had met before.

Karasik: Great. So, was there any, um, ritual that was done in the home, or anything that your parents ever talked about (Estrada shakes her head to indicate no) that was kind of handed down from the ancestors. Because I know 00:31:00there was certainly a time―like you said, sometimes it was more advantageous to be Latin or―

Estrada: Mexican.

Karasik: ―Mexican. Did you feel like, oh I would--I would love to have known more of the rituals or some of the ceremonies.

Estrada: I'm just learning a lot about that now. As a family, we did not practice a lot of that. But then―I say we didn't practice a lot of that. What I really feel like, maybe in a roundabout way, we did, because we always had large family gatherings. Now, in our tribe, we've had a powwow the second weekend of June every year until Covid hit. But it, um,―prior to that, it was―we would be gathering at a--a park, at a water place. I mean we were up at 00:32:00some creek up in Pamu―the Pauma area. Just places where―and it would be huge family gatherings, and, um, because there were eleven in my mom's family, and then their kids and down through that, so― And then, besides the other brothers. One brother--one of my grandfather's brother--had all daughters. I think there's eleven or twelve of those. And then the other brother had six or seven. So that they―it--you know, so you just kind of (makes pulling apart gesture with her hands)―and then when you get these families all together― (makes pushing together gesture with her fists) My grand--my paren--my grandfather's fa--family lived in Oceanside. And so, he was kind of the in-between the San Luis Rey brother and the Cardiff brother. So, it made a―The 00:33:00people in my mother's family―I felt like she was a--a mediator or the in-between person to get to know this brother's kids with this brother's kids (gestures pulling from the left and the right into the center). And that's kind of what I'm doing now.

Karasik: Interesting.

Estrada: Following in the footsteps, I guess you'd say.

Karasik: Of your mother. How--what a beautiful way to honor her.

Estrada: Well, and on top of that, I have my husband's family, who is from Pala and San Jacinto area, and trying to get them to know the rest of this family. So, you know, it's always "I'm going to call Roberta, because she'll know." Well, if Roberta doesn't know, she tries to figure it out and find out who it is, you know, make a connection.

Karasik: Right. So, I wanted to―I guess I would use the word "pride." Was―because the--the times have changed now, di--but, when you were younger or 00:34:00compared to now, was the certain pride about being Native American? And then there were times where that was not talked about, like where you said it was easier to say I'm Mexican.

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: And, um, whe--where is that now, and h--how has that changed over the years? And do you feel much more--more pride and feel that it's more important? Or―

Estrada: I think it's very important, because there are seven Luseño tribes in the area. And San Luis Rey is the only unrecognized tribe. We are still trying to get the recognition process done. But I think we're working at it together. We may not be federally recognized, but we are recognized by the people and the cities in the area. Last night, we went for a proclamation from the city of 00:35:00Oceanside. And, um, I think there were ten or twelve of us there last night, at the City Council meeting. And, um, it just made me feel like, "Oh! This is getting good." Because now they're becoming more involved. For a while, it's always the same group. And that group is getting up there in years. And we need to pass it along. And we're trying to―right now, I'm working with a younger cousin who has, um, aspirations to involve the younger people, the thirty-and-unders people, to get in--more involved. And so, we're working together and getting those―I couldn't believe the amount of people that were there that were in that age group. And then at the―We went--After that, we 00:36:00went to the Inyan--Indian monument that's in San Luis Rey Mission cemetery, in the old cemetery part. There's an Indian monument, and we had quite a large group there, that we put candles out and all the great-grandmothers and uncles and aunts, and so forth, around there. It was very, very touching moment, to feel--to feel that so many of these people―And then, at the end they were even saying, "Well, we'd like to know more about this. Or maybe learn about that." Because there was a period of time when―I know my boys―

Karasik: I wanted to ask you about your boys, if they've claimed their culture.

Estrada: My boys did not know a lot about the Native Americans to start with.

Karasik: Those two pages in the history book weren't enough in eighth grade? (chuckles)

Estrada: No. And it--they were not. And now they're, um―they don't live in the area. They both live in Arizona now. But they're―because of their work, and they will ask questions, though. And they will want, say, "Oh, are we going to do that this year? Oh, I think I'll come for powwow. Are we going to have it?" "Mom, I don't think I'm quite sure on what to do with this." But they both learned how to make their frybread. (chuckles)

Karasik: Yes.

Estrada: That's something that was stuck with them, and that was there. So―

Karasik: Yeah. I think it's really interesting how throughout the decades, if you will, it's been sort of not in fashion―

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: ―to look at your culture. Now, it's very much in fashion.

Estrada: Land acknowledgment, right now, is one of the big things. And so, 00:38:00you'll hear that when you go to different, um, occasions, or different presentations. They'll say, "We want to acknowledge that we are on Native land." We want to―

Karasik: Absolutely.

Estrada: ―you know. That's more going on now, and you see that in their speeches. Whereas you didn't see that before.

Karasik: Absolutely. I--I find that in--in, just when I'm on a Zoom―in fact, my name―and then I put what city I'm in, and then I put what stolen lands that I occupy. Be―

Estrada: Mm-hmm. Right now, we're on (gestures quotes with her fingers)

Karasik: Kume―

Estrada: ―Native land. We're on Ku―we're―well, yes. We're not on Kumeyaay land. We're on―we're in between, now. It's between the Luseño and the Kumeyaay area.

Karasik: And so, Luseño is sort of the umbrella of the six or seven tribes―

Estrada: Seven tribes.

Karasik: ―that you were talking about. And the recognition―are there certain 00:39:00aspects of it from the government or from the tr--tribe itself?

Estrada: Government.

Karasik: From the government.

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: So, the tribes, for sure, recognize you, but it's some kind of a governmental requirements to―

Estrada: Yeah. There's a lot of r--there's a lot of red tape, you may as well say―

Karasik: Right, right.

Estrada: ―that you have to jump through.

Karasik: And--and is―

Estrada: You have to have proof of being a government from a--for a period of time. And so, that's one of the things.

Karasik: Of being like a sovereign―

Estrada: Mm-hmm.

Karasik: ―nation or--or―

Estrada: Yeah.

Karasik: You know.

Estrada: Where you have a―where you do things then. So, you'll find if they're doing any activities, you'll find people that are recording that, so they'll have a recording of what's going on now. And―

Karasik: Documentation―

Estrada: ―documentation of all of that.

Karasik: ―every―Right.

Estrada: Going back to when we were talking about the basket weaving, we do a lot of things with the--the schools now. And so then, before we start with that, 00:40:00we tell them where we're from. Yes, we know that this part―now, like when we went to do it at San Diego State. Yes, we are on Kumeyaay land right now. We were invited to do this. And what we use for the schools is a Cherokee style. And so, we were given permission from Tekua, so that it was--would be available. Giving―I don't want to say permission―I want to say you recognize where everything came from. You don't say it's yours if it's not yours.

Karasik: So, there's a respect for the origin of it, and then there's also a--a, like you said, a recognition or a--um, yeah. I--I'm--I'm thinking of so many things. I--You said "tekua." Is that some organization, or what―

Estrada: It's the Cherokee, Cherokee band.

Karasik: Oh! Okay. And who's that umbrella?

Estrada: Cherokee.

Karasik: Ok. And then Tekua is underneath―

Estrada: Yeah. They're part of the Cherokee.

Karasik: ―that. And then are they a little bit more going east, like to Arizona? Or are they―

Estrada: No. They're, um, more, um, Oklahoma area.

Karasik: Oh, right. Okay.

Estrada: In that area.

Karasik: Okay. Um, oh, there's just so much there. And you've really been wonderful to kind of branch into some of the questions that I wanted to ask you. Um, I think I--I want you to tell me how you feel about doing this oral history, and how important it is. What--what are--what kinds of things do you want our descendants to know, and how important will that be for--for them, and that's why we're doing this oral history. And then, maybe you can add in there some of your accomplishments, if there's any regrets that you might have had, um, and 00:42:00kind of how your life path has changed, I think more since your retirement, and how that feels for you to, um, be more involved and have that pride and want to really pass that on and tell this story.

Estrada: Well, it's interesting, because I do have two twenty-year-old grandchildren, a sixteen-year-old, and a six-year-old, and trying to make them understand their heritage at the same time. And so, yes, I'm doing that with them, but I hope that other people are letting their children know about their culture and heritage, no matter what culture and heritage it is. And, um, having the pride, not hiding yourself. And it's important to know that one of the things that--I mean, San Marcos―I have to say. I don't live in San Marcos. I 00:43:00lived in San Marcos at one time. I did after I was married. Also, I lived there for a short time before we moved into Escondido and then Vista. So, we've lived in North County. But it's always had a place in my heart. And the people are just so interested in what everybody else is doing. I grew up in this area being friends with people from the egg ranch--Prohoroff's Egg Ranch--and just having, you know, and like all those race horses over here on the other side, and then the farmers on the other side. So, it was a big diverse. And I need to have my boys tell their kids that there's more to it than Minecraft on the computer.

Karasik: Uh, absolutely.

Estrada: And so―

Karasik: So, when you said egg ranch, it was like, "oh, there's probably a whole story there." So, some of those, the egg ranch and the others that you will mention, they're still here. So that's―

Estrada: (shakes her head).

Karasik: Oh, they're not. Oh.

Estrada: C.S.U. S.M. was--is built―

Karasik: On―

Estrada: ―on the egg ranch, on Prohoroff's Egg Ranch.

Karasik: Oh! On all those lands. How was that?

Estrada: It was hard at first.

Karasik: Were there burial grounds there as well―

Estrada: Um, probably.

Karasik: ―that we know of?

Estrada: No. Probably, probably. In the extension that they were building at San Marcos High School, they're--in where they're working, where the construction is now, there will be a lot of orange fencing. In the Creek Project in San Marcos, too, there's a lot of orange fencing, because that's all--the Natives lived along the water source, and I know that my mom's aunts worked and--and my mom--I 00:45:00don't think my mom's mother did but--my mom's aunts were in a lot of those camps, cooking for the people that were, you know, working on, or living in these areas, or working in these areas.

Karasik: Yeah. I'm curious there, because I--I know back, you know, pre-modern technology, they often moved because first they respected the land. And there were different growing periods and animals. There are all kinds of reasons that they would move. And so, that would be then sometimes how the women might go there and then support that, or―

Estrada: Ours went--Our tribe went from the ocean to the mountains, because they would go up in the mountains and collect the acorns and so forth. But my grandfather's father was a sheep herder.

Karasik: Mm-hmm.

Estrada: And he would--would go up in that area. His―My grandmother's brothers were miners and helped at the mining area in the Pala area. So, you know there was this way, and this way. San Luis Rey Mission is built on our Indian village site. The, um―they were given the opportunity to move up to the mountains or just spread (indicates spreading out in groups with her hands) and diverse themselves, and that's what they did. A lot of them went into the farming and into construction and things like that.

Karasik: So, you heard about your mother's mother and father, or your--even like your husband's parents and grandparents. Those were just stories that were kind 00:47:00of passed down. Do you feel―

Estrada: It's all oral story.

Karasik: Yeah. And--and so that oral history, you―

Estrada: Is important.

Karasik: ―Absolutely.

Estrada: It's not all recorded, except (points to her head) up here now.

Karasik: And that's a lot why we're doing it here.

Estrada: That's a big reason why I'm very into what's going on right now. Yes.

Karasik: And I think you've done a fantastic job.

Estrada: Oh.

Karasik: We could go on and on. I also think it's ironic that, um, Cal State San Marcos, who's doing this project, is on that land.

Estrada: Mm-hmm.

Karasik: So, in a way, it is--they are giving back.

Estrada: They're sharing.

Karasik: Which is--is really good.

Estrada: The best part of this whole thing is this "site" (gestures air quotes) that we're in today was actually on the elementary school that I went to. It was our cafeteria.

Karasik: This specific building?

Estrada: This specific building. It was our cafeteria, and we had our (gestures 00:48:00quotes with her hands) "dances" inside this building. We did our choir from the stage.

Karasik: This stage?

Estrada: This stage. The only thing that's different about it now is there used to be a kitchen connected. Because when we were in maybe fourth grade up, you could be a--you could be a cafeteria helper.

Karasik: Sure.

Estrada: And, um, you'd help serve at the lunch line, and I did that. But it―

Karasik: It's interesting. When you said "dancing." So, it was okay to dance. And that dancing, was it more like "American culture?" Or was―

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: It was.

Estrada: Yes. It had nothing to do--do (shaking her head) with the Natives at all.

Karasik: Okay.

Estrada: Mm-hmm.

Karasik: Yeah. Um, I could talk about that, but this is your story.

Estrada: (laughs)

Karasik: Um, so, I'm thinking there's not very many regrets. It sounds like you've really had a wonderful life.

Estrada: I think after my retirement, um, I became more involved and then it made me feel even more proud of my heritage.

Karasik: Yes.

Estrada: And then the--on top of that, um, I made a lot of connections to different family members and my husband's family, and trying to get that all focused on, so that I could intermingle that so I could pass that on to my boys who could pass it on to their children. And I really feel that by doing things like this and coming out and talking about it―I know that when I first started, Diania would say, "Let's go." Okay. I'd go and I'd stand in the background. Well, I listened a lot. Well, that's how I learned my Spanish in the first place, because my grandfather sold to―he sold the rabbits and the guy 00:50:00that came to pick up the rabbits couldn't speak English and he would speak Spanish to him. And here would be Roberta by his side. So, I mean, he was one of the influential people, I'm learning, that second language that was so important in this area. But, um, now I'm interested in trying to pick up the Luseño language, the Chamteela. I can't even say it. Because we're called the Payómkawichum, which are the people of the west. And so, it goes all along the western coast and in--into the mountain.

Karasik: And is there anyone still around―

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: ―to teach some of that?

Estrada: Yes. I have to take my time and go to those classes.

Karasik: So―

Estrada: Right now, they're just starting some Zoom classes for―they called it for the young people. But there's a lot of people that want to learn it beyond that. So, we'll see what happens. But they're doing them on Zoom right now.

Karasik: You―

Estrada: Because you need to hear it.

Karasik: I'm sure, yes.

Estrada: You need to hear it. You can't do it from the book―

Karasik: You have to―

Estrada: ―and read it. And, um, I've got several little kid's books that I've gotten from my grandkids that have the English on one side and the Luseño language on the other side and yes, you can do it that way, but you still don't hear the correct pronunciation.

Karasik: Yeah. That's really important. The--it's--I'm feeling like in some ways it's full circle. You know. It's coming back full circle, and now a--a--the pride is really more known amongst―

Estrada: I think it's more evident now and you can feel it.

Karasik: And even outside of your culture.

Estrada: Yeah, you can see it coming back. Because looking out at the people that were sitting at the City Hall last night, and them paying attention to what was being said about our culture, about ourselves, by the captain at the time. 00:52:00Mel was talking and you just look out at the people and you could see them really into what was being said about what was going on there, so―

Karasik: That must feel wonderful.

Estrada: Yeah. And so, I mean, it makes you feel. I told them that. I told somebody else, after the Dia de Los Muertos thing last night. I just go, "You know, I really feel very proud to be part of this group." And it ma--it makes you feel like―

Karasik: Right.

Estrada: ―you're doing something good.

Karasik: Absolutely. I'm so happy for you.

Estrada: (chuckles)

Karasik: And so, I guess, um, in closing, obviously if there's anything else that you'd really like to say, but I feel like we've had a--a really wonderful conversation. And I hope you do as well.

Estrada: Yes.

Karasik: But if you―you know, there's a lot of work done now too, around, 00:53:00beyond the veil. Like people have passed and sometimes people want to get in touch with them, or wish that they could have, you know, tell―

Estrada: Conversations.

Karasik: Right! And so, if you had that―if some of our--your descendants had the opportunity to talk with you, which is a lot of what this will be for them―

Estrada: Oh, yes.

Karasik: ―what--what would you tell them that is most important, the things that they should really pay attention to, and the things that don't be so concerned with. Like, what's the most important thing, particularly involving your culture and how they want to live their lives that--that honors your--your history, your heritage.

Estrada: I would say―well, I do this to my boys right now. I tell them, you know, "You need to live your life like you feel. But you also need to remember 00:54:00and respect all the adults." I mean, as we were raising the two boys, Richard and I did not allow them to speak out of turn to--to them. Not to say harsh things or anything like that. And I think that that's fallen away right now. And that's really something important that needs to be brought back, is the respect for your ancestors. Whether they be living or not. And I hope that this is one of the programs that shows the importance of the lives of people that have been and what they've gone through. I mean, nothing's been real easy for me, but I have to say that with the support that you have, no matter where it comes from, 00:55:00it's important that they pick it up.

Karasik: And how important that support was in your life. Had you been, for example, stayed back in Wisconsin―although they have some pretty strong tribal activities―

Estrada: I have―my dad has got a brother-in-law that his whole family, all his nieces and nephews, are really into it. But it's not a―I guess it's because it's not immediately connected. Maybe that's what it is? I mean "in bloodline" means nothing. Or how much blood―"quantum" does not mean anything. It means--what means something--what should mean something to them is that they were related to someone who spoke up and tried to help others in the area. And that's what we're doing as a tribe, non-federally recognized tribe. Yes, we have 00:56:00a California recognition, and basically that's because of water rights. But the Califor--the federally recognized tribes, some of them, look down on you now. But who's doing the work? Just keep plugging along and making sure that you're doing what you think is best for yourself and your family.

Karasik: That's beautiful. Who's doing the work.

Estrada: Yeah.

Karasik: Yes. Well, I think this is probably a good place to stop―

Estrada: Okay.

Karasik: ―all though we could go on. And we'll see what happens with the archives, and what else we might want to do. Like, it would be really wonderful to videotape a basket weaving class. I don't know if that's possible. And I'm 00:57:00certainly wanting to attend and--and learn more, but―

Estrada: There will be some on November twelfth. That's basket weaving.

Karasik: Is that the same day as the Luseño honoring that?

Estrada: (nods)

Karasik: Yes.

Estrada: Yes, it is.

Karasik: Oh, and we didn't mention, which I thought was so wonderful, that this happens to be Native American―

Estrada: Native American month.

Karasik: ―American Heritage month. So, we're celebrating and honoring it.

Estrada: (chuckles)

Karasik: And we have one of the best elders here.

Estrada: Oh, thank you.

Karasik: Oh, that was one question I wanted to ask you. The word "crone," does that come from your culture?

Estrada: The what?

Karasik: Crone?

Estrada: No.

Karasik: Okay. It's an elder woman. And I'm not really sure where it comes from. I think it might be Celtic or another matriarchal based culture.

Estrada: Uh-huh.

Karasik: But I think that the respect for the elders in your culture is--is very strong.

Estrada: It's very strong.

Karasik: And that's really so important. And that--I think what the 00:58:00children―which you have shown in your family and with all your--all your relations.

Karasik: Omitaki.

Estrada: (laughs) A lot of them.

Karasik: Yeah. That's wonderful. Well, thank you so very much.

Estrada: And thank you for having me.

Karasik: Yes, and again this is Roberta Estrada. And we are in San Marcos at the Heritage Museum here and this is all part of the Cal State San Marcos Archive pro--Oral History program.

Estrada: Oral history.

Karasik: Yes. Thank you very much!